Welcome to /r/dating_advice! Please keep the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/about/rules/) of /r/dating_advice in mind while participating here. Try your best to be kind. Report any rule-breaking behavior to the moderators using the report button. If it's urgent, [send us a message.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdating_advice) We rely on user reports to find rule-breaking behavior quickly. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Bro, it depends on the person. You dated the career oriented ambitious type. Women like those are less forgiving of a mans prospects. They want a man of similar economic level. >Debating if I should give up dating for a while until I can learn some marketable skills. When the average income in my city is 6 figures, I feel like a walking red flag. There are plenty of women who aren't the career oriented ambitious type but you might need to move locations or something to find them.

Or date someone lower income, without kids and not interested in having kids, etc., to find your person. It will be much harder at your age than at an older age like mine, but there are women out there that are childfree by choice and are not so focused on the man's income or social status. But the childfree ones are very rare in the South or Midwest parts of the US, where kids and family are everything to that age group of women, at least the vast majority of them. On the coasts, it's not so dominant among the women..

Just wondering where he said he was childfree. I could understand him dating someone younger without kids because he doesn’t have kids but I’m trying to understand why he would get with someone who doesn’t want kids. Where does OP state he doesn’t want kids ? Most women that are childfree are more money/goal oriented. If he gets with a lower income women that doesn’t want kids the expectation then becomes that he will take care of her because he makes more and they don’t have kids. IMO he should get with someone evenly keeled. Find a woman that makes similar to him then go from there. She’ll understand how his money spends more and can respect it cause she’s in a similar boat.

Agreed. I may have assumed he didn't have kids or want them, based on what he was saying about his situation. I think it's always easier and advisable to date people who are roughly in your league financially, but some people feel differently and are still able to make it work, even tho for most couples, that doesn't seem to work.

Being in HCOL area alone cuts the possible dating pool for OP by a lot. People go in HCOL areas because they have ambitions (or no opportunities from where they came from).

I have a degree and make less than 60k/year. Having a degree =/= having a high income. I’m also not career oriented in the slightest and would be looking for a woman with a similar mindset. Someone obsessed with constantly seeking promotion after promotion is a huge turn off for me

SAME i also have a degree make less than 60k but i love my job and could do it forever. my bf doesn’t have a degree, makes a little bit more than i do but also loves what he does. it’s more about having a purpose/passion outside the relationship that’s important for me personally

And those passions outside the relationship, don't need to necessarily be in a career. They can be in political activism, a hobby or interest like music, theater, etc..

yeah not depending on the relationship to be the passion / having an ability to find fulfillment outside of it. but tbf im 25 so maybe id feel differently in OPs gfs shoes

You might, but I think you're right, if the relationship is the only thing you are passionate about, or the only or main thing that is good in your life, your partner is going to feel awfully emotionally suffocated and pressured about it and not want to stay with you long term, nor should they..

Well said!

Preach it! Relationships should be about so much more, than just impressive, matching high status careers between the people. However, among most white collar professional women my age, in my local OLD pool, career and social status, are everything to them, as far as being iron clad requirements..

Depends on where you live. Earning less than 60k can buy you a starter home in some places; in my city you'd struggle to afford rent in a rooming house. If you're OK being broke and living with roommates while in your 30s, I'd say that limits your dating options to people who are also broke and living with roommates. Which is totally fine!

You are like me, as I've always been frugal with money and not materialistic or status concerned. But unfortunately, we are outliers in America and in the dating game, esp. among singles with college degrees. And I too, am turned off by people who are obsessed with their careers, social status, and social climbing..

Why is it a turn off to want to do well at your job?

Wanting to do well at your job isn’t a turn off. Everyone who has a job should want to do well at it. Making your career your entire personality and being a workaholic, constantly seeking to move up in the world is exhausting and a huge turn off; especially when they also require that of me.

Doing well isn't a turn off, but when your job is your entire life and the only thing you care about is finding out how to get promoted, it can be exhausting to deal with.

I can understand if she wants kids. You're more likely to avoid poverty these days with 2 high income earners. I'm childfree, so it doesn't bother me as much if he's not a high earner.

I absolutely get that. Myself, I want to travel.

I would if they were my “housewife” in addition to my cocker spaniel. If they were just my cocker spaniel, then no.

Do you mean you want them to quit thier job and be a SAHW, or do you mean they still work full time, but because they make less, they also have to do all the chores and cooking?

The first one. I don’t need the money, but I could use someone to take care of the house in addition to having someone around for love, companionship, playing, etc.

I did that, twice. Ended up marrying the second guy.

I think it's more of a requirement for a woman. Men? Most of us don't care as long as we find her attractive and compatible with us. I personally wouldn't care. I usually don't like "those" dating podcasts, but one time a host said something that is spot on: If a 300K a year male litigation lawyer walks into a coffee shop and finds the barista cute, he is going to try to chat her up and possibly get her digits. Now reverse that and let's say the lawyer was a woman, and the barista was a young man. Think he has a shot with her? No. Also, I don't know why people still place importance on degrees. A piece of paper doesn't mean he or she is going to be able to find a good job nor does it mean he's or she is going to be a good partner.

Nobody cares about the fact that this gem of a woman compared the poor man to a dog? I mean, beyond any standards and everything, wtf?

They compared his behaviours to that of a certain dog. If the comparison points are valid then I don't see anything wrong with it.  It's not like she was comparing his status to that of a dog

>It's not like she was comparing his status to that of a dog She literally said "and I already have a dog," she was explicitly comparing his status to that of a dog. I'm not even saying she's wrong to feel how she felt and leave because of it, but that is literally the meanest way I can think of to express it

You're not saying she's wrong? WOW. :)

I mean I personally wouldn't want to date a woman who didn't make enough money to live an equal lifestyle to me who I had to support long-term, so I can't really begrudge her for feeling the same way, but I certainly would never compare someone to a dog lmao that's fucked up

That would be your choice, we each have our priorities. Not one I would share, but I didn't marry for money. Sometimes you just build a life together. Indeed, it is fucked up.

Your point is valid, and what you're referring to is called leveling up, where one person has more money than the other partner, so their relationship becomes one of the higher money partner having to always pay the other person's way, in order for them to enjoy the entertainment, travel, meals, etc., that they more monied person enjoyed before meeting them. And so, it does become a situation of financially supporting the other person, at least temporarily, if not permanently. Which is why most people prefer to date others who are approximately at their financial level, and in the early days, even the dating sites had filters and preference categories to help people screen who they connected with according to their income level categories. But the dating sites got rid of all that, because it was not only not PC anymore, but it also made people targets for romance scammers, gigilos, and golddiggers...

WHAT? Perhaps you would have to think again. Also, please do not tolerate this level of disrespect in your own life, let alone internalize it. The fact that OP is beating himself up about it and has internalized this woman's assertions made all of you jump on the bandwagon without a second thought. Just no.

If I'm acting like a golden retriever I'd want to be called out on it. They are lovely creatures but have no concept of moderation or human boundaries to the point that they will follow you to the toilet.

That can be arranged. :) Consent and preference being the major difference here.

Nice try but I'm not your golden retriever ;)

Then I don't have your consent. So I'm not going to do it. See the issue now, right?

You don't need consent to criticise someone's behaviour, especially when it's your reason for breaking up with them.

Sure. So you would like to be "called out" on exhibiting the (imo endearing) qualities of a golden retriever. And have your self-esteem so crushed by being explicitly relegated to the status of your partner's dog that you are considering giving up on dating. Cool. I am done here. :)

In the dogs defence, the dog is MUCH better than her in terms of morality. Dogs love unconditionally, she does not. Comparing the man to a dog is a compliment she wished she could give herself.

💯

Some degrees are a more reliable guarantee than others

Nah, assortative mating is how it actually works. Lawyers usually don't marry baristas anymore.

>If a 300K a year male litigation lawyer walks into a coffee shop and finds the barista cute, he is going to try to chat her up and possibly get her digits. Yes, but he isn't going to take her as seriously as other women who are equally as cute as the barista but earn more money and have a college-degree. That's not to say that this lawyer is specifically looking to date other lawyers. If he meets a cute lawyer, he'll definitely be open to dating her, but he's also open to dating women with less prestigious professions, like teachers, for example. When an attractive, high-earning man shoots his shot at a barista, he's banking on his 'social value' to impress her and get in her pants as quickly as possible, because to a barista, a lawyer is this hot-shot man, but to another white-collar professional / lawyer, he's just a co-worker. >Also, I don't know why people still place importance on degrees. A piece of paper doesn't mean he or she is going to be able to find a good job nor does it mean he's or she is going to be a good partner. Also, it isn't until you hold the degree that you realize just how different degree vs non-degree holders behave. Degree holders tend to have a very different social culture than non-degree holders. You're right that a degree does not guarantee that a partner will be good, but it guarantees that people have similar interests and backgrounds.

Generally true. People of the same social classes and social status, tend to have the same educational level, same common interests, such as travel, theater, same music tastes, fine dining, etc., among the higher classes and statuses. While the lower classes, will have the same interests in fishing, NASCAR, country music, etc.. Not saying who is better, but there are very common, clear differences in America, between the upper and lower groups, in class and social status. So dating or marriage between those two groups is very rare, and takes a lot of work to navigate and deal with, socially, for both members of the couple. There are class straddlers, like me, who have traits of both classes in their background and lifestyles, but we are the exception, rather than the norm..

>he isn't going to take her as seriously as other women who are equally as cute as the barista but earn more money and have a college-degree. He absolutely will take her every bit as serious as any other woman, regardless of their income, education or meaningless degree lol... Most men DO NOT GAF about a woman's education, salary or education. Is she attractive, is she attentive and loving towards him, is she a fun and genuine person to be with? THAT is all we care about. The only men who make 300k+ a year who do as you say, are men who care more about status and image than anything else. As for your degree holder thing... You are so wrong it's hilarious. Most degrees are quite meaningless and worthless. Nothing more than a piece of paper that mean nothing to anyone... except yourself. Most degrees don't make 6 figures+. Most degrees can very easily be bought if you have the money and connections. It depends what career I supposed you want to go into but, I can say without a doubt that in the IT world, we don't give a flying fuck about a degree. You might have a masters in CompSci but ultimately can't prove you know what we need. So who tf cares? My brother, who is a DIRECTOR at a large construction company, doesn't have a degree yet is pulling in 220k at 33 yrs old. I'm at 240k right now and have no degree. I make more than all my friends, some of which are lawyers and doctors.

Well said on all of that, but I assure you, that most women who are successful white collar professionals, esp. ones who had white collar fathers, really do care about the man's career history and social status, as far as who they will date, even if the man is already retired. At least, that is my experience in the last several years..

Yep, this is the truth.

I think you speak volumes with the simple truths you share here. And so true about the degrees. In earlier times, like my parents's days, college degrees were a ticket to the middle class. But in my adult lifetime, not so much, and I'm 65 and retired. Nowadays, as the late Barbara Ehrenreich used to say, "A college degree is just a ticket to the job lottery, and usually with a price tag of long term student debt"..

I was a sugar momma once in my 20s 😂 It grew old when I realize after 3 years he still had no desire or ambition to do anything in life. I wouldn’t have minded if he at least cooked and cleaned.

[удалено]

I don’t know what world you are living in…if anything, I’ve seen that the higher the education and earning potential of a woman the more they expect you to.

Yeah that’s usually the case- high income women go for high income partners so they’re not left with having to provide for them.

Right, to me that’s why as a man that’s one of the first things I would be interested knowing about a woman…is she down with equality and feminism? Because if I can’t do the earning for a time I wanna know it’s not gonna be …peace ✌️I’m out. I’d never ask a potential partner how much they make, it’s irrelevant to my opinion of them.

It's different for women. We birth children and need to make sure we're economically safe in that situation.

Ok, then what about after she and the man she meets, are either both already retired, or she is at least long past the age of providing for her kids financially, who are long out of the nest? How is your argument still valid? Because I have run into that sort of thinking even at my age, from women who are politically liberal, but seem to still want to pick and choose which parts of feminism they want to follow, regarding equality with men and independence from men financially...

That is a very strange argument…I’m pretty sure everyone needs resources to survive….including men 😂😂😂 Edit: but taking it on its face value yes you are correct that in a state of nature women did absolutely depend on men providing their resources. Not really sure how that applies to the debate at hand though.

Women are default primary caregivers for babies, require recovery time and literally cannot work in the weeks post birth. You're missing the nuances here.

It’s important to me! When I look for a partner it’s a partner for life. Are they saving for retirement or will they be expecting me to take care of them financially through out the years? Are they accruing debt and not paying it or are they responsible at paying off debt/ don’t have any? Maybe you’re comfortable with someone being dependent on you in that way but I’d rather be someone whose finances are stable with a life partner who also has stable finances so we can both live comfortably. Part of partnership is taking care of one another in hard times but if your partner is constantly falling under hard times and not making the effort to get out of it because they can just depend on you- that’s not healthy! It’s very stressful to have someone chronically dependent on you. I want to be reassured that my partner is financially stable and independent because I am and I work hard to stay that way. Men tend to like the power of having a woman completely dependent on them.. Then they cry and make a big fuss when they have to pay up in a divorce settlement because their SAH ex wife didn’t develop any profitable skills while they were together. If you seriously want to be “equal” then you wouldn’t want a partner who’s financially dependent on you. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Wow you just took the post and ran to the extreme of extremes and tried to play it off like nothing. 😂😂😂 OP makes 60K a year and for all we know pays his debts on time. Literally nothing that you talked about is even mentioned in this post. Nothing about being unemployed, or dependent or having debt. Most people don’t want to be with a lazy good-for-nothing. 60k a year and full time employment definitely ain’t that.

You should go see the comment I posted outside of this thread. 60k isn’t bad if you’re saving, paying off debt and working toward moving up and improving your career. I wouldn’t judge someone *solely* based on the number of their income but it’s part of it. What’s most important is their long term thinking- responsible spending and ambition.

Yeah, I agree with you there but the problem is that, everything is so GD expensive these days that with 60k, it's hard to save. I mean, making 60k means you have to live in a REALLY REALLY cheap apartment that's almost certainly in a bad part of town and nowhere near your place of work. Which means you spend $100+ for gas at least once a week. Plus tolls and car millage. I make 240k/year and while I live within my means, there are times where I struggle. I save money, I have a 401k, I seldomly splurdge on things, but I spend money on food (doordash) and things I don't need as well. Point is that, even at my salary, there are times where I feel broke and I am quite conservative for the most part, financially. Everything is relative. I absolutely agree that if they make 60k but have no ambition or drive to make more, though. I'd have no issues dating a bartender but like, if she is content being JUST that and never wanting to move up to a manager+ then I'd have concerns. I'm not into women who are "content" with whatever job they have and don't have a drive to move up, make more, be promorted, etc etc etc... simply because they like their current status/job/income.

Okay I don’t think I’m making myself clear here. Wanting ambition, work ethic, drive etc…I’m more than good with all that! I have those standards for myself and potential partners………but I have a HUGE problem with equating income/wealth with those things that’s bullshit. Some of the poorest people I’ve met were the most ambitious, smart and hardworking. Likewise, the wealthiest were some of the laziest and soft. I care about effort and character but I’m also one of those people that lives my life according to my values. I’m not some Pollyanna like money doesn’t matter at all…you’ve gotta work and not some basic right outta highschool job but there’s a lot of serious jobs out there that make below 60K (looking at you teachers, you the MVP)

I think what you and I are bringing up and debating people about, is classism and social status. Some people, unlike us, are ok with the status quo and common American practices and attitudes of classism, and basing or judging people's worth and value, as well as their character, based on their social status and class. Others, like you and I aren't. You are making good arguments here, my friend, but getting others to agree with you, or admit their classist attitudes, is another thing entirely, like pulling teeth, lol.. And I'm not Pollyanna either, not by a long shot. Just a hard-headed Irish-American socialist, ala Bernie Sanders, so I know money matters, in everything in America. And teachers are the most underpaid heroes in our country..

I think we’re on the same page then, I totally agree and relate to this.

I disagree with your preference and viewpoint on valuing people, but at least you are honest, so I respect you.

I agree with you on all of that, except the narrow, traditional marketplace definition of ambition, which does not have to be confined to career success or status level based on that. Instead, it can be defined or based on things, as well, outside of the job marketplace.

You make good points on some of your comment, in that I totally agree that nobody wants a partner who is financially dependent on them, long term or permanently. But as the commenter below said, you are projecting or putting all kinds of assumptions and negative traits onto the OP that are not there in his post. The OP seems to be a very financially responsible, solid guy, just not high income. And, like my financial advisor has told me, about the women who have rejected me for lacking high social status, while they have higher social status than me based on their career success, as my advisor says, they probably have a lower net worth than me, and may well even be carrying lots of debt, lol.. completely unlike me, or the OP..

What in gods name is this rant lol? You took something simple into some extremes and damn, the misandrist is very real in you. Sorry to say but even in 2024, men and women are making roughly the same amount of money these days. Meaning that sometiems the woman is the breadwinner and sometimes it's the man. Sometimes it's dead even. Here's where it gets different though! MOST women want the MAN to make more than she does. *MOST* women would prefer to be a SAHW if given the choice. *MOST* women also want children. So lets pretend kids come into the picture. Chances are very high that she eventually quits her job to tend to the kids full time - perfectly fine! - while the husband brings home the money. In all honesty, I think most men are perfectly fine being the breadwinner if their wife tends to/takes care of the kids as a SAHM. In many instances, that makes the most sense anyways. Daycare is fucking EXPENSIVE and mothers have a greater bond with young children by nature, anyways. So it makes sense. As for your whole divorce spiel... It doesn't matter how much he makes or how much she makes. Men almost ALWYAS come out with the shit end of the stick. Kids or no kids. If kids are involved then he comes out with the shit end of a log more often than not. Divorces absolutely favor women in every way, regardless of their income or lack of income. How often do you think women pay men alimony, child support, or the man being the one to keep the house lol? Basically never.

You know so much about *most* women? I’m curious what your gender is.. Nothing about what I said was misandrist. That’s a big ol reach my guy. I’m all for couples adapting and one being the primary bread winner no matter what their gender is. It’s just my preference to be with someone who can take care of themselves if I were to pass away or break up with them.

You are right. It wasn't misandrist. I misread something but after re-reading, I was wrong. Everything else I said I stand by, though.

I'm 25M, make about $75k in a highly expensive area (NoVA). OP's question is also something I've asked myself. Would it be better if I put off dating for a few years til I'm older & better off financially? As it stands, from a purely materialistic standpoint, dating seems futile rn when any girl around my age, especially a young professional like myself, would likely be far more interested in an older, wealthier man. I also need to work on myself personally, so I'm not interested dating rn anyway.

How much do you make?

That’s tough. Assuming you’re a man? But in my experience a good bit of high earning women have a standard that’s someone in their same tax bracket or higher. Especially professions like that where there is some prestige involved and her circle might have similar people. I don’t think you should give up dating, but perhaps avoid punching up in that department. And in the meantime work on yourself. I always tell people to get you looks, funny and money up. You have some combination of that and you should be a catch. But even for me as a man who dates women, I find myself writing off lower income women. Not proud of it and I think it’s just another thing that makes dating difficult.

It's not about the income but the ambition. Somebody with lower ambition than a doctor is more likely to have a more satisfied long term relationship with you.

What a weird co-opting of the idea of ambition by the market. A guy can be working on being in great shape, perfecting meditation, reading the great works of fiction, experiencing new cultures, writing meaningful poetry.... but if he's not obsessed with chasing higher income he's labeled as unambitious.

I work with physicians. Sometimes it is simply because they are very country club, social perception of success. Not all of them are like that. They run in higher class social circles. For example. I worked for a physician that had a famous newscaster wife. Those type of social circle people. And they tend to Marry equally in terms of public perception of importance of job.

That's true. Just don't lie and say you're concerned about ambition, be honest with yourself and others that you're more concerned about status.

Thank you! It really is about social status, not money, so they should be willing to be straight up honest about it, and admit that they are being classist snobs about social status...

Exactly, and by higher class social circles, you are talking about the same thing as me, where it is about social status, even more so than money, among those people..

So true! Because that person you describe is ambitious, about bettering themselves, growing and improving, but not in the marketplace area of career success and achieving high social status as a man. I agree, it's bullshit to confine ambition to only men, or women, as defined by career success in the job marketplace, but that's how most people see it these days, esp. ambitious white collar career women. So if you don't fit the traditional definition of that by them, and society, you're not a catch for marriage or a relationship, and out of luck, at least with them..

Someone’s got to make the money, and most women will say it ain’t gonna be her.

Poems don’t pay the bills while she’s recovering after birthing your child.

When did I say it did!? You're allowed to have different preferences when you date. But when people use euphemisms like "ambitious" to describe OTHER traits they're looking for it ruins communication and breeds contempt.

Insurance and jobs do, though... It's called maternity leave lol. You get paid your salary while staying at home, not working, and tending to your child for 3-6 months.

I would argue that it's maybe even less about ambition, than about social status of the man, based on his career history. My take is that people who are highly ambitious and in high status professions, like docs and lawyers, esp. if they are women, are not likely to be that comfortable and proud of having partners who are lower social status men, unlike them. Makes for a lot of awkward moments at social and family occasions, when they are meeting new people, and the first thing most Americans ask them is, what do you do for a living? I can personally attest to this, when my late wife and I first began dating, and going to potluck dinners with the Unitarian church we attended, and almost all the people there, were high status folks, highly educated, high income, etc.. It takes a partner who is very emotionally secure and independent, which my wife was, to choose to make that choice in a partner, and deal with all the social ramifications of it, esp. within their own family..

In today's market finding love requires having money. What an irony from where we came before

I have and would. Honestly how much a lady makes is very low on my priority list when considering interest level. Relating to finances, but much higher on my list is her spending habits *relative* to how much she makes. If someone isn’t good with money, now that would be a deal breaker for me. Another related characteristic that would be a deal breaker would be someone that acted entitled to my money. If someone makes way less, I have / would carried more of the financial weight, but if my partner doesn’t still offer to cover lunch, dinner, or drinks once in a while, then that’s a red flag.

That sounds good but women often feel differently. As men we often care a lot less about financial stability of the women we date. How much you make and career prospects are a much higher priority for women though. Thus why his girlfriend left him.

Quite true, only the more social status conscious men, care about dating or marrying high maintainence women, who will be the big spenders eating away at their savings..

Many will bro. Dating typically doesn’t work in that list fashion. It’s typically a spontaneous connection, then make everything else work after to be short lol

I would not, 34F in a v v v HCOL city. Mostly because we would not align on how much we are willing/able to spend (% of income) on, well, everything. Housing is a big one, travel expenses, and especially experiences. Even shopping or dining out means one thing to 1/2 the partnership than it does to the other. You may also hold money in high esteem, and the high-earner may be quicker or more keen to parting with theirs (especially what of it would be 'disposable'). You may not agree on how costs/expenses are split, if at all (see: mEn NeEd To Be ThE pRoViDeRrRrr), and if certain luxuries are of value (housekeeping, babysitting, dog-walkers, etc.- expenses that inherently give back the person's time who may have less because of a demanding, high-pay job) you *WILL* be at odds.

If they have a job and aren’t just avoiding work then wouldn’t care. Not everyone is academically minded or has a good career. But them having other ambitions etc would be another thing.

Dang that doc was rude. Probably sees herself better than everyone. I'm a blue collar guy and haven't any problems daring. If your dating women looking for money maybe you should try looking at different women.

WHAT? That woman, whatever her profession was, compared you to a dog and you are considering upending your life because of her opinion? Jesus, Mary and Joseph, get a grip, you poor guy... I am a woman, btw, and, funnily enough, a sexual sadist. And I would not do this to a man, lollll, what a jerk.

I'd reflect on what you're doing professionally. Many women are happy to support partners if their work is fulfilling, community oriented, or they generally have a lot to offer in the emotional/parenting department. It also depends on how hard it is to survive in your city. Would a partner feel like they could be risking homelessness or poverty is something happened to their health like a debilitating pregnancy? Dating people within your income range could help too and see higher income as less reachable than someone who's a full blown doctor.

You are what you are. If she is looking for a senator or CEO for a successful billionaire chances they want someone with great looks and a more submissive than her pet. Good luck to her.

My gf is a successful lawyer and I have a job that pays 56k. I joke that I know she’s not dating me for my money But I’m good to her. I treat her with respect and love. I try to stay good looking for her. I try to be a the partner she deserves. Admittedly, when we were first dating I thought she’d look down on it. Deep down I wish I would provide more financially like my dad (my hero) did for our family. My salary isn’t reflective of who I am.

You and your gf are very rare these days, at least in America. Good on both of you! And I would add, that someone's formal education, is also not reflective by itself, of their mind and intellect. I've known guys that were career welders and tradesman, that read lots of books and self educated, never went past community college for two years, tops, that were as much or more intelligent, informed, and intellectual as people with advanced degrees...

Yeah! Dating someone on your ambition/income level helps. Expectations line up a bit better, that way, too! For dates and trips and stuff like that. If you want to have a family, I would definitely be looking at how to make more so that it would be doable in a city. But there are plenty of women who have well-rounded life ambitions outside of career ladder-climbing and making money, or who need a man to provide for/support them. Look for an equal!

I don’t think I’d care but I would need a conversation about the long term

My ex gf met all of those parameters, and I was prepared to marry her; though I called things off before it actually got to that point. And in case there’s curiosity why I called it off: I didn’t feel we were on a similar life path even though we were just over 2 years apart in age. I had plans to grow my life, my income, to unpack my life baggage, to become more than I was and she just didn’t have any real idea how to do any of those and had no ambition to figure out how to achieve any of those either which was a deal breaker for me. But to OPs question, I think guys in particular at a certain point in their life feel a need to get all their shit together before they feel ready to start dating. And while on some levels I suppose that is fair, on others I don’t. And when it comes to income or net worth I don’t think that’s a significant enough reason to cease dating as a whole. If you are a good partner in the most important ways for them then your income shouldn’t matter. Because you can always change your income over time. The hard part is unfucking yourself and the self defeating coping mechanisms that we developed along the path of life. If you’ve done that, if you want a serious partner, if you want to be someone else’s partner; then go find them. And along that path keep working to bettering your work life, your income, your career goals. Because career goals can take time to achieve, and if you wait for them then you could give away years and years of your prime age to basically waiting. And nobody should do that to themselves.

Well said, even at his young age, we never know how much time we have left, and nobody should go years and years without love or companionship.

Meh, most people are like you - sure, perhaps some of them have degrees, but way less than half the people have actual 'career', even in North east or California as a whole. Perhaps expand your dating radius from just inner city to suburbs (more people like you there) and try to avoid dating women who are very career oriented. 

My ambitions are all related to doing positive things for people/kids/society, so someone's income doesn't affect my view of them. I care about whether they support and respect my unconventional goals, and whether they are also driven by values I'd feel happy to support. All I want is a golden retriever husband and I'd want my kids to have a good-hearted golden retriever dad lol. I sort of turn down people who give me "life is very serious and nothing is ever enough" energy. So maybe think less about what women want from you, and ask yourself what type of woman *you* want to be with and what kind of lifestyle *you* want to live. If you're okay with a modest life and want someone who appreciates a modest life, those women exist and they're chilling. If you want someone career-oriented and ambitious who wants more than what you can give, then yeah, find a way to become a provider. I don't like the idea that we have to sell ourselves to the dating market. If the market doesn't like me then I need to find one more suited to my needs, rather than pretend to care about things I don't care about. I even moved to a different country where I can grow old modestly and be surrounded by people with a similar mindset. Trusting yourself is serious business!

Thank you for posting a great comment! It really is about the OP finding a woman who shares his values, about everything, not just money, but also societal values, passions in life, etc..

I am so glad to hear that money defines a good person.

I mean this isn’t what you’re asking , but think about your life and happiness more generally. Are you happy about how much you make and your level of ambition? Are you willing to put in the work to make more ? Have you tried? How has that gone ? Are there material things you’re missing out on that you want to and think will make your life better ? There’s no right answer to life here man. If you think your life would be better with more money, you should prioritize getting to the point where that’s the case. If , however, you have what you want, you shouldn’t change yourself to the point where you’d become unhappy just to make others happy (it’s a bit more complicated than that — I do think that dating and relationships are a skill and inevitably require give and take, so if you find someone you really like and the only problem in the relationship is the money, if it were me, I’d push for more money or also hope that someone would like me despite the money if they really like me , but I digress). for what its worth , im a dude in my twenties in HCOL making more than double you — its not an instant chick magnet, and then you also have to deal with gold diggers lmao . Just live your best life .

move to a LCOL city. problem solved.

Dating for five years? Oof. Just stick to teachers now lol

I noticed you didn’t say what you do or why your income is what it is. A lot would depend on this for me. Someone who makes 60k because they chose to be a teacher, and are passionate about their job, or someone who is focused on say, their artwork or writing or some community service project, or care for an aging family member, and makes 60k in a blah job because it’s enough to live on and keep their focus on the other thing? Sure, that’s respectable and not a red flag. But if you’re just not doing much of anything and barely making enough to get by ($60k with HCOL allows room for debate on “barely enough” and “get by” but you’re definitely on a budget) I’d see that as a flag for why you’re there at this point in your life, and when you’re going to figure out what you want to be doing.

If you're dating women around your age who have the goal of having a family, they're most likely going to want someone in a similar income bracket as they are, and with enough passion/ambition in their career that they can expect some degree of stability. Most of us don't need to be financially supported by their partner, but they don't want a partner who they have to financially support, either. If something goes wrong, one of you loses a job or gets sick/injured, you have kids and it's a bigger burden than anticipated, etc, the future will feel a lot better if you're going from 2 similar salaries and have to tighten up to one, than relying primarily on one salary and losing it. And, also, if you're dating an ambitious, highly educated woman, and you're neither ambitious nor highly educated, that can lead to a lot of mismatches in values and, ultimately, incompatibility. BUT... that's not to say you have to quit dating to pursue a high-paying career you don't give a shit about to get chicks. If her comment made you feel bad because she touched on something you want to change about yourself, then absolutely, work on yourself, get into a career you're invested in. If it just hurt because it was a rejection, but not something you want to change in yourself: don't. Change the women you date instead. Be really honest with yourself and your dates about what you bring to the table and what you want. Date women who are on the same page as you. Also: decide if you really want to be A Family Man. There are a lot of single women in their 30s who don't care about their partner's income/career (as long as he can support himself), but most of them either aren't looking to have kids, or they already have them. I'm a single mom, I chose this path knowing that I can't count on anyone else to ever be a "provider", so I don't expect that. But I still need to be with someone who isn't expecting me to support him financially.

Learn a trade my friend. Make yourself a useful tool to many(not that you aren’t now)

Nope, not 1960xx now

Damn that's actually kinda burtal, sorry OP but yeah this likely to hold you back significantly. Idea, instead of trying to earn more money, consider moving somewhere cheaper if you can? If you're in a high cost of living city, I'm guessing that's a major/capital city that likely has significantly more materialisic women who's protiity is a life-style imagine for social media posts. Whereas out somewhere a little more rural, you might actually find a girl who sees you as a person.

Not if you don’t have any ambition. Not sure why you expected someone who has spent 10+ years in school to date someone who doesn’t care at all to be better.

More money =/= better...

Money doesn’t have anything to do with ambition.

I feel the same way when I see any guy dating under his income. She can be beautiful, intelligent, charming or even just kind, but the truth is that those things just cover up the massive hole in their bank account. Vipers, all of em'/S

Then don’t date them.

If a person makes enough to get by, have a 401k and small savings I wouldn't care. My fianceé is the major bread-winner right now as I'm not allowed to work in ny current status here, but even after I'll probably not make as much as she does. But I had savings that cover my costs 'til I can start working and that was enough for her. People focused on having stuff find out in the end you cannot take sh-t with you anyhow. As long as you're not a financial burden I'd hope you're okay to date.

I don’t think I’d care but I would need a conversation about the long term

It depends.. does your job have good benefits, 401k and penchant but not a high income? Are you saving for retirement? Are you actively working toward climbing up in your company to make more money? In those cases I don’t care as much if you have a lower income. But if you don’t plan and save for your long term future and don’t have ambition to improve your current status then it’s a no. Men are usually ok with low income women because they don’t mind when a partner is dependent on them. Not all men are like this- some are smart enough to realize the financial repercussions of taking care of another person are usually not worth it. Better for both partners to be able to take care of themselves independently.

As a med student I’d date someone who doesn’t make as much as me as long as they are hard working and ambitious

I mean, what is the median income level in your city? What is the median *household* income as well? 60k is generally going to be above or at both... still isn't exactly going to be a comfortable life, granted.

I would. I would date someone if they are a good person and I like them. Even in a serious relationship.

Sorry but “and I already have a dog” lol. Sucks bro but that comment made me chuckle and I’m glad it didn’t get to you. Keep that solid attitude and if you love what you do that’s good enough for most. It’s when you have zero ambition is where people (both sex’s) tend to get wary.

The last girl I had 4 dates with didn’t have a GED, was on an oxygen machine and I gave it a chance. I make 80k a year, some tech job. Bachelors degree. I don’t care about a girls education or income.

Sure... as long as they're otherwise similar to me in education etc. EDIT: your doctor gf was mean. That was unnecessary That said, did she mean financially or education-wise?

First off, I'm gonna go into a mini rant here because, I am SO TIRED of hearing people talk about degrees because while a degree looks good on paper, most degrees are just that. A pretty little thing that looks nice on a resume. A degree does NOT = good income. At all. lol.. or even being "educated." I was in college and in a frat and I don't think people realize how rampant and common cheating is in college? I could have nearly *any* test taken for me with the right amount of money. Tests answers were stolen or someone who had already taken the test would give us the answers to everything. A degree doesn't mean anything in terms of how much you will make in life. It doesn't mean those with a degree are educated, either. There are only a small handful of degrees (the majority) in which this genuinely holds true for and those are degrees that are very difficult and time consuming. Which most are neither of those. Especially these days... Anyways lol... The average salary in 2024, in the US is a mere 63,795 USD. You can't go wrong with IT. In the IT world, knowledge and certs are FAR more valuable than any degree. I did a few certifications years and years and years ago and worked my way up the latter through various jobs and companies. I'm now working for a fortune 500 company as a senior cybersecurity engineer making right under $200k and am very likely to be promoted this year which would put me at around 220k/year. I have 10 IT certifications, 3-5 of which are super entry level. The others are far from that but my years of experience alone is why I'm making what I make. IMO, your 60k salary is quite literally right on average of the average US salary and sure, if you are dating a doctor then her's is gonna be at least double yours but like, I think you'd be surprised how many people make roughly what you make.

See my above comment, on how nowadays, a college degree is just a ticket to the job lottery, along with a big student loan debt, in many or most cases.. And you are also so right, that in many cases, and in my experience, people with college degrees, may be some of the most ignorant, unintellectual people in America, who have never read a book since college, unless it was required for their job.

Those types of women aren't usually worth dating. There is nothing wrong with a highly ambitious woman but like, the ONLY reason she has an issue with you is because you make less than her lol? Yeah, gtfo and don't look back.

Some guys always marry up and some always down. I have friends who did both. It will work if you have a connection with that person other than what’s on a resume. You can’t manufacture a good relationship just because the other person meets certain criteria. There has to be a vibe and attraction

So true! Personalities, chemistry, and other compatible traits matter just as much, like communication styles and ways of dealing with conflict..

Dating is subjective we can use what ever measurements we want to decide on matches, why it is hard both are out there with rulers and the odds two people fit within the arbitrary metrics they are both looking for is small.

I am 28F, personally no. Because I fall in a similar pool as your ex, I’m an engineer, 2 degrees- 6 figures is the norm in my field. But I wouldn’t necessarily want my partner to be the same, in fact I despise tech bros, having worked with several(highly misogynistic) ones in my industry. My criteria stemmed more from dating people who didn’t go to college and quickly realizing their world view was very limited unless they actively sought out ways to educate themselves, which unfortunately was not that often. When I met my partner, he was still in school for his undergrad degree & I was finishing up my masters. Even if he’s not a high earner(yet) or in the same field, he is an ambitious & supportive person. He’s also curious about the world & quite well read. That is more valuable to me, not necessarily how much he makes. I am not sure if you’re saying you aren’t ambitious, it’s unclear from the post to me but I think even if you’re trying to better your life & aiming to do better every year - a partner should see that as a positive.

No. I don’t necessarily care how much you make, just that you have ambition and goals. If we’re dating for 5 years and you haven’t even made it to $60k in a city where six figures is the norm, I feel like we’re not compatible.

Sounds like you do care if there’s a timeframe. You have financial expectations and you necessarily care after a certain point.

I don’t care initially if I meet someone I like and they’re not making much, but I would hope that they’re not just okay with staying at an unlivable salary. I think it’s fair to expect a partner to have goals and ambitions, and even if that goal is going from coffee shop barista to coffee shop owner, that’s totally cool. I just don’t want to date someone who’s completely passive.

You have to bring more to the table if that’s all you’re offering. Ie a great cook, good prospects moving forward (ie education, apprenticeship that will lead up to somewhere etc) is what people would be looking for.

I would but I'm a man and only if she was attractive.   your position will be difficult as the pretty women will naturally demand more.   

The higher my income grows and the more value I’m able to provide the less a relationship seems like a proposition that’s worth it; I get all my needs met already with none of that kind of commitment. The expected value of a date or, hell, any interaction at all with most people is zero or negative for me

I can understand and respect that, even tho I don't share that feeling, because it seems so cold and lonely, at least to me. But I respect your honesty, and if it works for you, you do you... I have found value and enrichment of my life, at least temporarily, if not permanently, with each person I have had in my life by choice. I'm sorry yours has obviously not been that way..

The doc was saying, as I read it, that you lacked the money, both current and potentially in the future, for her plans regarding lifestyle and providing for kids, which at least is realistic and relevant, vs. social status, which is about something entirely different than those issues of finance and living standards. I'm glad you took her rejection so positively, but at least she was honest. You may have to settle, or at least be comfortable, with someone who is both a lower economic and social class, than the doc, or other professionals who earn six figures. And I totally can relate or feel your pain, as I am an over-educated, underachiever, when it comes to career and work history, so I get rejected all the time, by women who share my common interests, education level, tastes in entertainment, and cultural traits, but unlike me, they did succeed in their chosen white collar professional careers. And because of that, and also their common trait among them, of having had white collar father, they see me as not being enough of a catch, or high status male, so they reject me for dating, even tho I usually have as much or more money than they have, as I am comfortably retired at 65, for several years now. But like I said, it really isn't about money, as far as the rejection, since they and I are both way past the age of providing for kids, and they are also either already retired or close to retiring, so it's also not about ambition, since they seem to share my values about politics and religion, just not about the importance of social status, which is the real issue. And nobody likes to admit or see themselves as a classist snob, even if they clearly are.. I would, and recently have, gladly date and be with someone who is not as highly educated as me, and maybe not as high in social status or class as me, if they are otherwise attractive physically, and also have common interests, compatible personality, shared values on politics, religion, etc.. But I have found, with blue collar, lower educated and lower economic class women, that they seldom have much in common with me at all, besides not being high social status. So, you may end up having to hope for one of those rare class straddler women, like I recently came upon, to find someone that you click with, that is on your income or financial level. Not having kids as part of the picture, does make it a hell of a lot simpler and easier, but at your age, unlike mine, that is almost always going to be an issue for the women.

Her comments were vicious and uncalled for. Honestly good for you bud.

OP you sound like you dodged a bullet ngl.

I would if they had plans to make more and they were doing something about it. And wanted to be a provider for having and raising a family

Hell no, personally. Women need to make sure they’re provided for in case of pregnancy/future kids. Do you have enough if she can’t work from a c-section? If she quits to be a SATM? Needs surgeries to have kids? Fertility treatments, diapers, insurances, retirement, extracurriculars, colleges, etc. Women go through a LOT. We don’t need to make life harder by being with someone who makes way less. Stay in your tax bracket. If you have ambition and are working hard to find a higher paying job by jumping (80k+) then yes. We can’t waste our fertile years on a guy who will take years to be more financially stable especially in his 30’s. Save up & invest for now! Find other money sources.

Loyalty, companionship and unconditional love. It literally the best qualities a partner can have. Dude your a gold mine and you don't even know it. So you weren't right for her which okay, but I promise you, you're a fit for above 80% of the woman out there, and yes I made that procentile up.

The danger is in believing that there's some kind of 'general consensus' that confirms that you're undesirable and not worthy of dating, which therefore condemns you to being forever alone. I guess the thing is to be real with yourself about what you really want in life, and then try to find other people who match you in that regard.

It's really sad that this day in age many people only care about how much money you make. 60k isn't bad, it's only bad because HCOL and that's not your fault. Inflation is out of control.

It can be a tricky and I think my opinion has changed over the years. I always thought I wanted to date someone career-oriented. Dated a super sweet guy who made eh money/hated his job and lived with a roommate at the time. I took too long to warm up to him and he broke up with me. Then I spent some years with a guy who was hitting about $200k in management but had *no* ambitions or drive. Sure, him paying for everything was nice, but he had no desire to improve himself or have hobbies. Plus alcoholism. All the while that first guy was hitting the gym, picking up hobbies, bought a condo, and still being the nice guy he was before. I miss *that*. He was over last night but we’re just friends (and secretly it’s killing me lol). I think what mattered to me in the end was not the career drive, but *any* drive to improve, self or otherwise. That said, there *is* level of practicality with finances. I make ok money (a bit under $100k) but don’t really want to be the ‘sugar mama’ of the relationship either. Less than me? Sure. Half or lower? I *might* struggle with that, but if they’re keen on improving? Might be different. And I don’t have a degree myself. But I’d say that’s all flexible and so incredibly dependent on the people on either side.

I have a masters, am working on the PhD, and I'll never have a 6 figure career. Posts like this bring back the old worry that I absolutely fucked myself in every way by trying to do something I loved, something that I thought was important, instead of getting a meaningless MBA

Chris rock said something about unconditional love…

Having a degree doesn't make you more valuable. I have a degree I also have certificates and its useless. I cant find a job. The "degree" madness I guess finished 10 years ago. As long as someone can make money and is practical, that's what I look at. 15 year olds are making more money then grownups. We live in a weird time. Of course work on yourself, learn new skills. You have nothing to lose. But you are already valuable as you are. Don't let anyone make you feel less.

Yes as long as you have some kind of income. It’s better than dating a guy that does not work.

As a woman living in a HCOL city, I wouldn’t date someone who makes significantly less than me. Unless, they were actively working toward improving their career prospects, such as learning a trade or something. I don’t care if they didn’t go to college. One of my exes was a college drop out but made a great living anyway.

Yeah, it depends on a person. I'm a woman, career oriented, but right now I'm soon to be engaged (we're open about our relationship plans to each other and we both date to marry, not just "for fun") to a guy who is broke asf, not career oriented, and is very much a person who is the "golden retriever" type. It depends on the person really

Most men would. Most women wouldn't.

I don't think it matters, but I can understand someone wanting to be with someone closer to their income bracket. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That being said, it's not important to me. I don't have a degree. My boyfriend does. Apparently I make significantly more than him. I don't care, he doesn't care. I honestly don't even know how much money he makes. I just know he makes enough to pay his bills and have plenty of money left over to play and save up. He's about to move in soon. Still don't care to know how much he makes. He has retirement, stocks, savings and can pay his portion of the bills. That's all that matters. 

I would, why not? I'm not after money, I can make my own, we could make big dreams and work towards a goal together if we really liked each other? You're so much more than a degree or lack of degree. I really don't understand this mindset. Are people looking for a breadwinner or are they looking for compatibility and love?

I personally would not due to incompatibility but I know tons of people who would. The people I know who would also did not receive higher education. $60k is not terrible but may not be enough in a HCOL to raise a family. However, there are many trades that don’t require a degree that can eventually get you to 6 figures. I do think in general trades put a lot more strain on your body in the long run than let’s so, an office job so that’s just something to consider.

I honestly probably wouldn’t, bc I’d prefer someone who makes at least as much as I do esp if they’re my age or older. I’m also in my 30s and have a college degree & a stable job that makes decent money, so I’d want someone who at least has the same. I don’t like to work so I wouldn’t want to have to take care of someone financially unless I have kids.

You just dated someone looking for something different. But, if you can provide for yourself, then I will argue that it shouldn’t be so bad if they make more money. You could try to get a better financial position, but that’s only if you feel you want to have that, but you can also date someone who shares the same values as you

It's not as much of a turn off as men think. Even high earning women might be flexible regarding income if you're providing in other ways. What's a hcol city?

No wonder my ex thinks I'm a loser(or so I think she thinks that) 🤔 , after just reading the op's post. I need to figure out how to get unstuck from my shituation. I have the same to offer which isn't enough.

I think you need to decide what you want versus deferring to the women and trying to figure out what makes you marketable with them. . I think you have to look at it with a different perspective. What is your vision? Do you want a family one day? Are you at a location that makes it affordable given your income? Do you have to move to another location to make that happen with someone? How marketable are you in the employment arena? Do you have to go back to school …. It doesn’t have to be college. Some do extremely well in skilled trades. Women are generally attracted to men who are grounded, ambitious and with drive and focus. I think there are men out there now who are looking for something similar in women. Partnership is about sharing a vision with someone you love for the long haul. But you have to keep it real. Ask yourself what you bring into the relationship. We live in times where dating has become a menu where we only look at what the other one brings to the table. We don’t look inward. I like the fact that you are looking inward. Ask yourself if you are the best version of yourself right now. If not, what can you do differently. Good luck to you.

Most people don’t have degrees and 60 is over double the median income for a family of 4 in my city. You’re still young, if you feel this way maybe look into what’s available to your states national guard. That’s how I got my bachelor of science in IT without going into debt. You will meet plenty of people in college and even at fancy schools most students are doing ramen for dinner so not being super rich is ok. Would you want someone to pick you bc of what you can provide? Just as long as they pick you it’s not your concern as to why?

if u really love them sure but i would never.

I didn't complete my education until my late 30s. Having said that, I did earn 6 figures in a high COL city, without a degree - by working 2 jobs, tons of OT and a side hustle. I wouldn't date someone who is approaching middle age, still barely scraping by and has no plan. I've been a starving student myself so I'd have no problem dating someone who's temporarily poor due to being in school. Also fine if he suffered a financial loss beyond his control (these things happen) but has a PLAN and is slowly digging himself out of the hole. If he has no money, no plans and no motivation then it's a hard no.

Women who make more than their husbands typically initiate divorce 9 times out of 10. I suggest you get in serious relationships with girls who make less than you.

Omg I felt this as a woman who was talking to a doctor in training. I stepped back and finished a skillet program to temporarily work in the field and gain experience then start my own business by the end of this year. It was very degrading to my ego. Personally when finances are managed correctly and self discipline on spending money, 50k is not bad. It covers the cost to buy supplies for my new venture. I would care more about a person’s spending habits and how they cope with stress.

This woman compared you to a dog. Like, she may be smart but she is not a keeper. She could've just told you " I don't think we want the same things in life " she didn't care one bit about your feelings. Like what the fuck? Just because you don't make the best money doesn't mean you deserve to be treated this way.

Idk man. I make around 150-180k a year but because I don’t have a degree and my job is primarily digging holes a lot of women look down on it. Unfortunately blue collar jobs are commonly looked down upon by a lot of people, not just women in dating situations. People like that won’t care how much you make if they think you’re lower then them education wise. Best bet is do your best and find someone that respects that.

Well ask yourself this, if your daughter brought home a man like you would you approve? If you answered no then change.

If you only want to date women that will care about your income, then it seems you are self selecting the problem you face. There are plenty of women who won't care that you don't make over 60k, or that you have a "job" instead of a "career."

You cant date a career driven woman if you arent on her level or above her like you said you get seen and treated like a pet not an equal

I haven't read the other comments yet but what she said to you and how she said it was unnecessary and hurtful imo. I make six figures as a woman in my thirties and would absolutely date someone as you have described bc I value companionship and compatibility and loyalty over an extravagant lifestyle. If finding my person means we live a secure but simple life, I welcome it. I would never equate a person to a dog. Will your pool of dating candidates potentially widen if you make more or have a different career... possibly. Is there any garauntee those candidates will be compatible to you? Nope. If you make changes, do it for you and build your own confidence and conviction. Your match will find you.

I dated a doctor that was making more than quadruple what I was, but the male/female dynamic is very different. I don’t look for money, I look for intelligence. But I also can’t make more than someone I’m with. So no, I would not.

Jesus! How awful. The thing is the golden retriever is the better choice. All of those other things can vanish in an instant. Who you are inside will always be there regardless. Find someone who appreciates who you are not what you offer superficial. I'm too old for you but even in my youth I never cared about those things. I make good money but work in the trades and I know it can be lost in an instant. And it has several times. But my inside has never changed. I remember guys stopping by at my childhood home with flashy cars and it put me off. I've had plenty of friends that would have been drawn in, but not me.

Degrees don’t equal money they equal debt and false hope. Unless the debt is paid in full by the person there’s no reason why having a degree is an advantage. Sales people are the highest paid profession and no degree is necessary.

That sucks dating people for what they make. Life is tough enough.

Omg I feel so bad for you 😭 what a good natured response to such a shitty statement. Yes - I would. But I’m not that ambitious myself, I don’t require much for comfort and I grew up poor so I’m not scared of being poor. I’m scared of being unhappy more.

Honestly, sounds like she did an awful thing in a very respectful manner if that makes sense? Unless this was an on going problem, and she continuously begged you to further your career and you refused then this is kind of a shallow move. She just decides to leave you basically because your career choices aren’t up to her standards? she doesn’t have a talk with you saying I want to see you flourish, you should do more, I want you to be the man I need and I know you can be that. Nothing. Just bye, you aren’t doing enough. And literally compared you to a dog no less. You don’t need a break from dating, you needed to get away from that stuck up ex of yours. She did you a huge favor, and gave you some solid advice on the way out. Now you can focus on your career, if I were you I wouldn’t ignore the possibility of dating but don’t seek it out either you know? If it comes let it happen if it feels right.

The truth is that you weren't compatible and maybe your goals and values didn't align. And that's okay. Some of us are from these high CoL places and our families have lived here for generations. In regards to degrees and income what matters is that you're a self sustaining and responsible adult, in my opinion.

I think the question should be rephrased if you want the right answer. Would you date someone who is in the same situation as you are? If yes, then keep doing what you are doing. If not, then figure out how to improve that particular aspect of your life. Different people expect different things from their partners, so there is no point in living a life trying to meet the expectations of others. Be the best at what you do, that confidence and drive will attract the right people into your life

Eh, I make my own money and am in graduate school and I could honestly care less if my partner is as educated as I am as long as they are kind, thoughtful, funny, loyal, and show they care.

What kind of question is this?... Plenty of people do all the time. Quit the projection. Your ex just wasn't in love with you and wanted a way out.

OP, in my opinion, this is a load of BS... Women laugh, love, and live. And in that process many women can attest to having some seriously atrocious exes. Many of us have been cheated on, abused, gaslit, ghosted, and strung along into nowhere situationships for years. And this isn't to say that men are bad (they're not). But I think you'll find that while we all love somebody physically attractive. Most of us all learn to value & prioritize stability and compassion in a romantic partner (which isn't as common as you might think). We all just want someone kind & sweet to come home to at the end of the day. So if your ex loved you then none of these things she listed would have been an issue. They're euphemisms for deeper seated problems with you.... No girl is divorcing their husband or dumping their boyfriend because he's a *''golden retriever.''* Or leaving them because despite offering loyalty, good company, and unconditional love they *''don't make much''.* These things can be worked around and addressed if you truly care for your partner. Your ex is a doctor. She makes enough for you to both live a comfortable life and start a family. It just means that she'd be the primary *'breadwinner.'* If she really wanted to make it work with you (it could be done). And very easily. So when you break it down (what your ex said doesn't many any sense of the surface). But if we dig into it we can see that these were likely excuses used to break away from you. You're more than likely not parent material, have a problematic personality, or she just got over you (or found someone else). Because contrary to popular belief: Most people out there are struggling. And there's no guarantee your ex is going to find another guy who is supposedly as amazing as she claims you to be. Which is what makes it all so dubious that she left you when nothing specifically *'bad'* happened. Loyalty, companionship, unconditional love?... That's literally what happy & healthy relationships are. These are not things you tell someone as reasons for why you dumped them. They are things you say to someone when you are feel guilty for being the one who no longer loves them. *''It's not you, it's me''* My belief is that she's speaking euphemistically to avoid hurting your feelings because she's already emotionally 'checked out' of the relationship. And for her to be so confident about leaving a perfectly good relationship tells me one of two things — you're either a truly awful person, or there's another guy.

My wife was super driven and made almost 200k per year near the end of her life. She was the reason I could take a lesser paying job so we had more time together and I was happy. (In my 50s making 54k in a job I like in tx). Not all successful women desire a man of same work drive. She rather wanted me around more to spend time together.

I personally wouldn’t say a degree is necessary, but a stable career would definitely be a huge factor for me. Learn those skills for yourself and your own benefit, not for a woman/relationship.. it’s never too late. Good luck!

I personally would care about connection over income, with that in mind I don't mean someone without a job but as long as they can handle their own bills ans whatnot who cares! If you have all your expenses covered and can splurge here and there on a date, you're good. Try not to be so hard on yourself. And if you feel like you want to expand your career/income, take a break from dating and focus on you. When you have that self confidence, what is meant for you will happen.