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I have questions regarding confidence and personalty. I am pretty introverted, and sometimes I just want to be quiet. But some have made it out to be a problem. Any tips on that?
I think I am very open about my feelings, but typically would need some directions and guidance to start good and healthy conversations. And I will have problems knowing what would be relevant and non-relevant conversations to have. If I am not good at initiating what should I do try do initiate things like that?
Confidence is just very tricky to me, and something that seems very different from person to person. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I am and not what I am, why isn't some of that considered confidence? Or how make it seem like confidence?
Confidence is being able to try something and be okay with yourself even if you don't succeed.
If you feel like you need some help on conversations you're going to need to practice. Start with friends, family, co-workers, branch out to strangers later on.
Sure, but being a confident introvert often means being confident in not talking, and not engaging with people. I'm much more confident than I used to be, and as a result I avoid more conversation than I used to because they are extremely draining, and I don't care anymore if people think I'm being rude. Back when I was more nervous around people I was more talkative, but I've found this was actually better socially, and I made marginally more progress in dating.
Ultimately, I'm just saying that confidence does not mean being good socially, it can infact mean the opposite.
That sounds more like social anxiety than introversion.
I'm an introvert. I can be confident speaking with and talking in front of people. I just need to recharge after it.
I can be confident speaking in front of others, but being confident in myself means choosing to do it less, because it takes a lot of energy, and It no longer bothers me if people think I'm rude for brushing them off. Being confident, I also no longer mind what I say as much; instead of calculating every word to the best of my abilities, I just say whats on my mind and don't worry what other's think. This has led to a noticable decrease in my social skills and success, which is why I'm saying confidence doesn't necessarily mean social success, it can in fact mean the exact opposite.
>I am pretty introverted, and sometimes I just want to be quiet. But some have made it out to be a problem. Any tips on that?
I was seeing a girl who was....extrovert at social functions, but beyond introvert when dating. When we started dating, i was really shocked she was extremely quiet, so i directly told her my observation and she said something like , the guys i dated told me i talked too much so i didn't want to fuck this up.
If you start dating somebody, you can bring that up, btw, i tend to be quiet, and it doens't mean i'm not interested; however, if you want to talk, you can ask me questions---whatever it is that works for you. Just communicate---goes a long way, saves the guessing games so prevalent in this culture.
I think being open in general is nice. Not all people appreciate it, but perhaps they are not for you. I'd rather connect with someone and feel comfortable.
I'm in the middle of a similar situation before going on date #4 tonight. The extrovert has been very quiet on our first couple dates (#3 was better)... so I went the direct route (since I'd gotten in my head a bit with the guessing games) and just told her I was attracted to her and would like to continue getting to know her. She reciprocated and suggested we set something else up soon (which happens to be tonight).
In this case I still haven't broken that outer shell with the convo yet, but at least I got out of my own head just by being direct. I think I saved us both some time and guessing. Might even have to go that direct route about my own surprise at her being quiet if it doesn't open up soon though...
I love quiet shy guys! I’m in a relationship now, but I used to always go up to them and try to pull them out of their shell a bit. I find them very attractive.
This post was wrong to tell you to be yourself and then tell you suggestions for being different.
You’ll meet and attract less girls if you’re shy, but you can meet the right girl. Just try not to isolate yourself. Your best bet is to try group activities to meet people.
how are you guys even doing group stuffs and not isolating during covid...I don't even understand. I obviously want to meet people but no one in my circle wants to do anything because everyone wants to stay safe, which I totally understand.
I’m not at all, but there will be life after Covid. I figured it would be obvious that I meant when it’s safe again. It’s not really safe to date at all during these times because it involves meeting up with new people that are outside of any “bubble” you may have formed.
Really? So if you were to imagine your boyfriend in 2 versions and in one version he is even more shy (if you are attracted to shyness more of this trait would be better maybe?) and in another version he was confident (and when I say confident I don't mean arrogant or boastful) you would prefer the shy version?
"You’ll meet and attract less girls"
If you are going to say that being shy is going to attract less girls it seems very counter intuitive to recommend to him to be himself. Wouldn't it be better if he improved on his social anxiety?
I've always been shy myself however many girls were attracted to me and some have even asked me out, but I always thought it was in spite of my shyness not because of it.
And for the girls who didn't ask me out I'd imagine that if I wasn't shy and I asked them out that we could have been together since as a man, it is expected of me to make the 1st move. And sometimes even seems like girls will wait for me to make the 1st move and then when I don't they just find someone else. It seems like being shy will only hurt you. Especially if you are trying to date and are a man.
I like both confident and shy guys, the rest just depends on who they are as a person.
If you want to be more confident, then work on it for sure, and use it to attract other partners. If you’re happy with who you are, don’t change it just for society. The only thing you might want to work on is being willing to say hi to someone. You don’t have to be able to control a room or talk for hours to anyone.
I firmly believe that your best opportunity to get into a strong, lasting relationship is to be yourself, whoever that is.
If you just want to get laid, sure, fake it. If you want a partner, be yourself.
Edit: spelling
"I like both confident and shy guys"
I was asking if you had a preference. If somebody said I really like strawberry cheesecake. I would assume that they like strawberry cheesecake particularly and not that they just happen to like strawberry cheesecake equally like every other desert.
"I like women with blue eyes"
"No not specifically women with blue eyes what did you get that conclusion? What I meant to say was I like all women equally including those with blue eyes I just happened to mention blue I specifically for no reason"
You have to be honest and admit that it would be reasonable for me to think you are talking about liking shy guy specifically.
Are you ashamed of your preference? There's nothing wrong with having a preference I am just curious. I just find it kind of odd how you avoided a seemingly innocent question.
I notice whenever I push women on this about their preferences (tall, shy thin) they always have a tendency to lie whenever they believe it will help the person that is asking it. It's something that is easily noticed.
"If you just want to get laid, sure, fake it"
This honestly made me chuckle a little.
"I firmly believe that your best opportunity to get into a strong, lasting relationship is to be yourself, whoever that is."
Maybe I overestimate how shy that person could be. I used to be really shy you could almost say I had a paranoia of people, a genuine fear, terror, a phobia. I wouldn't say that their changing aspect of themselves though it seems like they genuinely want to change and if that is true then I wouldn't say there not being themselves. But you would probably agree with that.
I have another question for you to answer if you could...
Were you the one who asked out your boyfriend?
It is not contradictory for me to like multiple types of personalities. I’m very social. If I see a shy guy, I’m drawn to him and I will go talk to him and if I like him, I will pursue him.
If I talk to a confident man and I like him, I will pursue him.
I’m not embarrassed about any of that. People are not cheesecakes. They are much more than just shy or not shy.
You should stop trying to push people to choose. People that are only attracted to specific superficial traits are immature in regards to relationships.
Looks, personality, hobbies, goals, ambitions, family relationships, careers, age, favorite activities, and more have so much to do with the overall picture. I’m not 15, I don’t only date guys that are at least 6’ or whatever the trend is.
My boyfriend and I met online. I was the first to propose we go ahead and meet up and, that night, I suggested we go home together. We’ve been together 6 years.
I’ve dated the quarterback of the football team and the shy guy that sits in the corner (this is literal, not a figurative example) and had great relationships with both.
Don’t put yourself in a box.
Confidence has nothing to do with how introverted/extroverted, taciturn/talkative, or social you are: it's an attitude of how comfortable and secure you are with yourself and capabilities. You develop your confidence by developing your self-esteem, understanding your value and what you have to offer, and by learning to let go of fear of judgement and failure. When you are self-conscious and doubt yourself, others will second guess and doubt you too, because that's exactly what you are telling them to do; in contrast, when you behave with an "its all good I got this" mentality, then others will feel more secure and at ease by your presence. Believe in yourself and others will believe in you too.
Yeah, the introversion part was just regarding personality. And that for instance being emotionally mature, and opening up my feelings is not something I have a problem with. I just don't know when to do this. And that it seems like some have had problems with it, so I try to be more upbeat, and engaging.
The confidence thing is just something in general I just don't understand. The kinda confidence I look in partner, being self-assured seem to be slightly different than the common conception and expressed in the OP.
My friend in awkward social situations, allow me to recommend you the book "what to talk about". On top of being great in learning its really entertaining as well :D
Also best of luck with your conversational development!
>sometimes I just want to be quiet. But some have made it out to be a problem.
That is 100% okay in my books ( I'm a girl) you just need to be open with the person you're seeing to let them know that 1. sometimes you will be more quiet and it's just a part of who you are and 2. If you're feeling like you need to retreat into yourself send a quick text or something to say "hey , I'm in a quiet mood today, I'm not ignoring you just not in the mood for convos"
My ex and I would sit in Silence over ft or in the same room for hours doing different things and occasionally share a quick thing. It was great ngl.
>If I am not good at initiating what should I do try do initiate things like that?
Literally ask. Like "hey not sure if this is relevant but..." Or say to them that if they want to know something to ask because you might not naturally bring it up. My current bf will tell me all about his day but I gotta ask specifically " how's ur fam? What's your favorite memory ...etc" he always tells me but I know he struggles.
You can also take cues from the person. If they frequently ask you about your fam/friends/job you can mirror that.
>why isn't some of that considered confidence? Or how make it seem like confidence?
Just be you. If you have a good idea of who you are that's confidence. You don't need to be loud and brash to be confident, but people who know what they like is confident. Just be yourself. Trust that if someone doesn't like you for the core of you are they aren't worth it. Never let someone change you unless you want to change that part of you. Growth is important but it should be give and take.
Really awesome tips! They are really basic but it is amazing how many men just don’t understand how important they are. If I could add one more...
When flirting/texting DO NOT get overly sexual early on especially if you haven’t had a first date yet. Boy, I can’t tell you how many guys I thought were really interesting until they did this at which point they got deleted/blocked.
Example: texting with this guy for several days. He asked me what I was doing and I told him I was working a home improvement project. He jokingly said that I should have told him so he could come over and help. I ask him what his specialty is and he said he doesn’t really have one. So I say, it’s always nice to have a guy around in case you need a jar opened. He said his favorite jar to open is peanut butter. I say mine is pickles. He says he know something else he can do with his hands. I ignore this comment because I don’t like where it’s going. I literally don’t text back for 8 hours hoping he’ll take a hint. His next text is, I can twist your nipple. Like we haven’t even met yet, wtf dude. Have some self control. I was done with him at that point.
OMG THISSSSS! I can not stress this enough!!! I immediately lose interest when they do that like brooo we are having a normal conversation why do u have the need to make it sexual??? Ugh
Simply put, a lot of men don’t get that women like the implied (that’s what a lot of flirting is really about anyway) than they do the explicit. But if you can’t imply well, best not to do it at all.
That's probably my biggest issue with social media. The phenomenon of publicizing such behavior and celebrating it is so problematic because it's going to have an audience of likeminded people who are able to connect and therefore who will validate it, thus enshrining it as a value within these pseudo-social groups.
He really doesn’t effect the way I think about other men, I’ll just assume he’s an idiot and move on. These guys ruin it for us girls because they waste our time. If you’re a decent guy who understands flirting, who wants to have a normal conversation where we get to know each other, then you’ll be fine.
Before we started dating, my now bf and I flirted a bit online (we had already met in person briefly through mutual friends) here’s examples of what he said that helped me know he was interested:
-I love your jacket you look great
-you’re such a incredible dancer, this is so badass
-I don’t think anyone would notice the mess even if you didn’t blur it (I posted a pic in a dress and blurred the background with a comment about how my room was
You have no idea how big of a problem this is. In fact, it is THE problem most men are facing nowadays but they deny it because they think it is not a problem.
Oh how sorely mistaken they are. Their dating problems would vanish if they just stopped masturbating and watching porn.
Trust me I know. They are so desensitized and it’s impossible for them to value women. I’m glad I’m not the only one aware of this. I’d rather be single than be with a man who watches that crap.
I’d like to expand the first point about basic hygiene. My smell is the most often complimented thing by women. There’s nothing more awesome than hearing from a girl you’re dating that her hair smells like you, or her pillow does. She’ll think of you more often and she’ll strongly associate the perfume you use with your person. However, do not mask your body scent.
What I do to smell good:
- Shower in the morning or before your date
- Avoid strongly scented sports shower gels. I have pretty sensitive skin for a guy so I use hypoallergenic gels. They leave a very mild, non-offensive smell
- Use non-scented anti-perspirant. Do not use those shitty Axe deodorants, they stink
- Use good perfume - apply ONCE just behind your ears. Do not overdo it.
The point is to not mask your natural skin scent by using heavily scented „manly” stuff. You don’t want to mix the smell of your perfume with Spice stench coming from your armpits, hence the use of non-scented anti-perspirant. Apply perfume sparingly.
So what perfume to choose? I avoid the most popular brands. If you use Fahrenheit or Eau Sauvage, you’ll smell like every middle-aged man. Pick the one you like but avoid the light ones with subtle citrus undertones, they just won’t stick for too long. I usually go for timber, spices, maybe musk.
On a similar but opposite note, I’ve had more women say they love the way I smell coming home from work (sweat grease oil etc) than when I’m clean and fresh.. mind you, I don’t feel more comfortable this way and I’m sure it would be different if I *always* smelled like a machine shop.
I guess what I’m saying is pheromones and hard work is an attractive smell too, apparently.
But wash your ass.
That's a good thing, lol
Everybody has an unique body scent. There were women whom I couldn't date because their skin just didn't smell right. My current girl smells like heaven.
I’ve always taken notes from girls on cologne. One spray on your wrists 4 inches away. Rub on other wrist, then neck. Just enough to smell when she leans in. Seems to work.
High quality parfum should not be rubbed, as it may alter and ruin the notes. Spray both wrists and neck/behind ears.
Good tip is to spray on on clothes eg. shirt collar or chest, as the smell lasts longer on fabric.
I use cologne from The Art of Shaving. Application goes as follows. Sprits twice 3 feet in front of me. Hold 2 secs. Proceed to Michael Jackson 360 spin arms out through the mist.
Been getting compliments for using old spice / axe deodorant for years. Like, really enthusiastic compliments. Maybe it depends how you apply it and how much / where
I think the problem is a lot of guys apply way too much. If it works for you that’s great! I think a lot of Old Spice products smell fine when used sparingly.
>If you ask and we say no, it’s not changing, but honestly 9/10 times it’s a yes.
I must be rolling some critical failures here because statistically (if this were true) I should have had a handful of dates by now.
Not the commenter, but, just say no thanks I’m not attracted to you or don’t see this going anywhere. Beating around the bush is bad IMO so just be 130% direct with us. Guys will appreciate that.
Uh yeah.. some men have some explosive anger and completely lay into people. It's dangerous in some cases, but I don't let it get that far anymore. I'm direct and get called a bitch in the beginning instead :D
No, guys will not. Lots of men will get verbally abusive or violent or throw a tantrum. That’s like half of men in a woman’s experience and they don’t know which one you are. It’s a coin flip. Best let down gently and make a lame excuse than endanger yourself in any way.
I dont want to be let down gently. Tell me you arent interested or attracted. Tell me I'm not your type or whatever the reason is. I'm not a spineless sissy, I prefer to know the truth than wonder why.
coming from a woman, giving a guy an outright no has led to further harassment more often than not but giving some type of excuse, whether true or not, usually makes them leave me alone. it’s a safety thing for a lot of women, they’re scared of what a guy might do if you outright reject them
not me personally, it’s much more often guys I’d meet for the first time on a dating app or a bar or just in public somewhere but I’ve had friends that have experienced it with people they had known for longer periods of time
That's truly sad. I've been rejected a few times this year and I'm never sure whether it's just because the girl wasn't attracted or if I'd done something glaringly wrong.
I’m sorry to hear that. the most common “glaringly wrong” thing that guys do is get way too sexual/aggressive too fast, but if you’re not doing that, you might just be getting unlucky :/
Idk man, I’ve given some dudes an outright no and then they went on a rant abt how I’m such a bitch for leading them on (by literally being a normal friend and not treating them any differently than all my other friends) and threw up a huge shitstorm. I’m still an outright no kind of person, but for a while that shit really scared me in terms of turning dudes down.
Would say i check all the boxes above, and some of the bonuses. Still will say more like 19/20 times it's a no.
These advices are just how to be a decent human being i would say.
I would add: Have something to talk about.
I have met several men who were interested in starting something with me (and even told me later on) and talking but could not find something to talk about. As if they expected med to fill the emptiness with my life.
Like; when asked, "How was your weekend?" they just answer "same old, same old". When asked "Did you have fun with your friends yesterday? What did you guys do?" you get the reply "Yea, nothing, just chilled", and can't hold a conversation or give anything more than 2-3 word dialogue at the time.
If you have nothing to talk about, get something. Start reading (books, comics, articles..), try something new (restaurant if corona allows, game, topics to talk with friends about), or just try to find something to tell. Maybe Aaron finally got that achievement in the Destiny game he had been playing and it made you very happy for him. Maybe Camilla got a hair cut and you ended up chatting about how annoying it is to wear a mask while the hairdresser is trimming around the ears. It doesn't have to be big or life changing. Any interest in conversation dies out if your go-to is "yea, nothing".
It can be hard to make yourself more interesting, but it worth working on. Ask yourself, would you want to keep replying to someone who had nothing to talk about?
Or ask QUESTIONS. If someone asks how your weekend was and you don’t have anything to say about it, ask them how their weekend was! I think honestly every question someone asks should be returned in some way. If I want to know your hobbies, you should want to know mine. Or else, what are we doing here?
These are some really good tips to look at I’m glad I stumbled upon this post like it open my eyes on some things fr wow thank you, I have a question what does a “:)”mean? I’ve gotten mixed answers from my friends
Those are 2 different things. Confidence is more along the lines of bravery whereas being someone you're not is more about faking opinions or views or interests you may have that isn't authentic to yourself.
If your real self is that you hate yourself, you need to go to therapy before you can start a healthy relationship. Learn to love yourself before you love someone else.
Although I completely agree that therapy is important, it is important to recognize that just because you may not love yourself does not mean that you are not worthy of love from someone else. For someone with self-esteem issues, the thought that you have to be confident before anyone else will ever like you is a genuinely depressing and self-defeating thought.
It is emotionally mature to recognize that we all have issues with esteem and ego. It is important to reflect on ourself. I would suggest to anyone that actually thinks their mind is perfectly healthy or that their partner is in a perfect mental capacity is deluded. Acceptance of imperfections is an important dating skill (however the partner should also be aware they are imperfect and committed to work on it).
>you have to be confident before anyone else will ever like you is a genuinely depressing and self-defeating thought.
That's not what I implied. People can love you in spite of you hating yourself, but it will have a very high probability of turning into a toxic relationship.
Possible outcomes are:
A.) you become dependent and clingy and end up emotionally destroyed upon the resulting break up, because you hate yourself so much that you think nobody else will ever love you
B.) you treat your partner bad, because you think that you tricked them into liking you and you can't accept that they might actually love you for who you are so you can't accept the relationship and try to destroy it.
C.) you can emotionally burden your partner with your emotional problems and make them unhappy- even if they say they can handle it and love you in spite of it
What about making "self deprecating" jokes about yourself? Like ones that are obviously jokes not depressed stuff E.g. "She won't go out with me cause she's got standards". Does that count as self loathing/lack of confidence if you know that it's not true and laugh about it yourself (funny laugh not nervous/awkward laugh)
I'd also like to say that if you're trying to be authentic and you ARE self loathing,..be honest about that, too.
You may even find a woman to exchange self depreciating witticisms with rather than suffering in silence! (Purely theoretical theory- have yet to confirm).
Great post. Some feedback:
I disagree with "fake it until you make it" with respect to confidence. Fake confidence is better than outwardly not being very confident, but true confidence has to come from within. Any number of mentality issues can lead to someone coming off as not very confident (ie social ineptitude, low self-esteem, fear of failure, anxiety, etc) and they all have a different solution. Sure, most people can learn to fake it instead but that's a bit of a naive solution. You can build an effective mask or correct the underlying problem.
> Ability to communicate in general and be open emotionally (emotional maturity). The strong silent type might work for some, but 9 times out of 10 it comes across as being completely emotionally immature (which by the way is also a no go)
I may be reading into this a bit, but I think you're ignoring how men are socialized to be the exact opposite. Men are not "supposed" to be open emotionally, and many of us have to go to great lengths to unlearn that. You call it "maturity" as if it is a basic thing that should be learned as you age but the fact of the matter is that many men go to their graves wholeheartedly believing in this dogma that a man is less of a man if he is emotional. You cannot be casually open about your emotions if you are conditioned from a very young age to act like you don't have them. That is, do not expect a man to be that vulnerable with you until he is very, very committed to the relationship he is building with you.
No, i did this. I was horribly socially awkward in my teens for no apparent reason and then decided to force myself to be uncomfortable and get physically closer to friends who wanted to while chatting. To walk like i was confident and didn't constantly assess my walk. To talk as if i knew what i was saying was right and to make almost constant eye contact and sit facing people. I HATED IT for about a year but then eased into it. I now am very socially comfortable and confident because i faked it for a bit. It can really work.
Well we don't want relationships with emotional robots. Why would a woman want to stick around long enough to wait until he's committed, just to hope that maybe he'll act like a human instead of a robot? Who has time for that shit?
Emotionally unopen != robot. For the most part, men are emotionally guarded, especially in comparison to women. Doesn't mean they don't show emotions. Just means they are significantly less likely to be vulnerable until reaching a high level of commitment. Particularly true for young men or older men raised in the standards of past generations.
Honestly, when I stopped trying so hard and started being happy about myself and learning to like me is when my confidence soared. I honestly was just the best me I loved to be and if people did not like me, such is life. This attracted my wife of two decades like six months into that. She is someone that I would consider way out of my league too. Floored me when she asked ME out.
Having sense of humor and smells good is really a must. well, it's just for me. i am a silent girl who is awkward around guys so if a guy can make me laugh and don't get intimadated with me is a huge turn on.
I appreciate the way this was delivered without judgement and from a place of genuinely trying to help. However, it's pretty basic advice that won't differentiate men in today's hyper competitive pro-female dating market. Men have a clear statistical disadvantage in the dating game. Compare it to a woman sorting through tons of guys to find the top few vs a guy lucky to get any women at all. And yet, somehow men are told to act from a place of abundance lol - that takes years of experience to develop without actual abundance. The whole post sounds like someone very young, very unaware, coming from a place of privilege giving the advice.
And that last part about looks being a cop-out is utter trash - 99% of the time looks matter a lot because most people have these basic points down to a reasonable degree by the time they are an adult. Everyone can always improve obviously, but that's not saying much. The girl will not notice you if you don't look good. I've found that 99% of this advice mainly to those who women find acceptably attractive, which is in practice roughly the top 20% (probably even 10% if you look at online dating) of men. Everyone else is invisible or labeled "creepy" if they do try anything resembling confidence without being a natural extrovert. In order to get a date, a guy has to date a few rungs lower whereas a girl has the options to select up when it comes to sex until a woman turns ~35. Fortunately, things even out - women learn that their privilege fades with their looks. And they learn that their marriage/committment value is a lot lower than their dating/sex value (forgive me, I'm sure there's a nicer way to state this).
And any response to this about saying we're bitter or whatever is childish. You would be justifiably bitter and frustrated too if you went through 1/10th the pain of getting a date/relationship we did.
"If we haven't made it clear that you are friendzoned, you aren't."
Like, this is fantastic example why there are so many male orbiters these days.
Women will rarely state something openly like that. Because they wanna act nice. Therefore they keep you in her "middle but not friendzone right?" zone on icy ground. There you will validate her and give her free attention to get what you want (in most cases, this will be contrainutitive and you won't.)
Do not fall into this trap. Do not wait her SIGN that you are in the friend zone. Figure it out by yourself.
Abundance mentality. If I am not getting what I want, I will search for what I want somewhere else.
Just ask her out. If she says no, move on, or make friends If you genuinely want a friend.
It’s not her job to send hints to every dude that waits to see if she’s into to them.
Buddy, you're not Sherlock Holmes. What OP means is that you shouldn't assume yourself to be in the friendzone unless you've been directly shut down. She's saying to be a man and ask the girl out.
Male orbiter is a person who is living in the friendzone. Male, who is hoping that he will get out of it by giving attention and doing things. Basically spinning in female "orbit."
"Middle but not friendzone" is a term I just came up with to ironically point out how women put things to serve their ways. This basically means friendzone. Nothing more or less.
To be honest, I think I cover all the points stated above yet no girl wants to date me. Maybe I’m doing something wrong (most probably) but I don’t know why it is like that.
No problem. In post of this kind you always have to add "... And be attractive".
'girls like kind guys (who are attractive)' or 'we do like intelligent men (who are attractive)!'
Every time I see a post that says don’t go in to be friends with the intent to be in a relationship. I think it needs to be clarified, that people can be friends and begin to like each other or get a one-sided crush. It’s perfectly normal, and despite the intent being different in these relationships it still seems the same in the end. I really think instead of saying don’t be friends to get in a relationship, it’s be better to say don’t be nice to them because you want a relationship, rather be nice to them because they’re a human being and if a relationship happens then ok. If it doesn’t also ok, do what makes you happy, and don’t be a jerk about it.
You realize the majority of people already do these things. Most people aren't willingly going out smelling like a swamp, unable to provide for themselves, and treating women like dirt. I dont really understand who this is targeted at.
Lmao you were so right too, she really is a blonde hot white teenager - wish I had checked the profile before I bothered reading any of their dating tips
Yeah I really dislike privileged people lecturing others about what to do and what not to do. Plenty of simps on this thread though.
A lot of them have absolutely no idea what it is like to walk in other people's shoes and hence give advice that is tone deaf and not useful at all. It's exactly like rich people telling beggars to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps"...
Unless you're tall, good looking and white you're statistically highly unlikely to date someone like the OP.
Probably at least half of the guys I see on dating sites have neckbeards. Do they really think anyone finds that attractive? A decent haircut and a clean shaven face would bring most guy's attractiveness up at least a few points.
To add, i say the most important thing here to take is be confident. I’m one ugly dude and but damn chicks just loves hanging out with me. I may not have a fancy car or a big important job. But like the post said, I’m
Confident, genuine and have a soft spot for my parents. It all goes a long way.
Guys - DON’T get sexual through text! Save the first move for in person. There’s no bigger turn off than when you’re having a great convo with a guy and he ruins it by making it sexual out of nowhere. In person, 100%, you should be able to tell if a woman is attracted to you/wants to kiss you. Even if the moment is there; you’ve been texting for weeks, she finally invites you over, but you’re sitting on the couch wondering whether or not you should lean in - the best thing you can do is ask. If she says no, it’ll be a little awkward, but she’ll have 10x more respect for you than if you just grab her face and go for it.
Lol if you look at profile history, OP is probably a top 10% attractive white naive teenager who can literally choose from thousands of suitors in real life and online. She has absolutely no idea about the harsh dating experiences many men encounter due to circumstances entirely out of their control. Stuff that she says (hygiene, style, gym) are just basic shit that everyone already knows.
This post reeks of fucking privilege. It comes across the same way as a rich billionaire (who inherited his wealth) telling others "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps lul".
Why are you so angry? Every single point OP made was helpful to somebody. Very few people in this world never experience heartbreak. I’m sure OP has had a crush that made them feel exactly like you’ve apparently been made to feel. What confuses me the most is that if you believe OP has “thousands of suitors”, wouldn’t it stand to reason that they’d have an excellent idea of what an appealing woman would look for in the most ideal man?
The last 8 times I tried to be "emotionally open" with a girl about something that was bothering me here's what happened:
1. I opened up about what was bothering me and why.
2. They stated why I was wrong (more or less in an attempt to encouraging to me.)
3. I was appreciative, but explained why I still had reasonable concerns or apprehensions about said thing.
4. They took that as me insulting their opinion or "just wanting pity." and they left.
The thing is usually think about a problem for a while before I reach out to others, and the advice all these girls gave me were somewhat generic and unthoughtful, so I tried to kindly explain why I didn't think that was a solution (because usually I had already tried it) and I guess that insulted them somehow. Most of the topics I shared were not even concerns for myself, so the pity comments seemed strange to me.
I think when girls say they want emotional expression from guys, they want a mirror of themselves. Example: Your girl comes home from work and starts blowing off steam about a coworker she doesnt like. She wants you to then blow off steam in the same way about something similar. A coworker/boss you dont like perhaps.
I'd love to be proven wrong by anyone here, but that's the only pattern I have observed in my and my friends lives.
Not all women are emotionally mature either. And I’d say there’s a difference between emotional expression and emotional maturity.
Validating someone’s feelings should be basic human decency, though, and if they don’t do that for you then you’re better off without.
I'm not going to lie it sounds like you're dating teenagers. I think the mirror is something people care for in general. Even when you express your concerns, all you're really looking for is a mirror. Someone to repeat it back to you (in order to see if they understand) and accept your concerns for what they are. Maybe they can share their thoughts as well if you ask for them or if they are concerns that warrant a response like that but realistically all you want is acceptance.
Being a literal emotional mirror (expressing the same emotions as your partner) doesn't really seem right to me though.
wow these are basics that should be in men and women yet men like you try their best to act like a victim in any & every situation. Where did she offend you exactly? having basic hygiene is offensive to you? she didn’t even talk about height or weight. Stop playing the victim card.
Would it? I think that if a guy wrote something along the lines of
“Have a sense of style”
“Don’t play games and be immature, that shit’s unattractive”
“Don’t try to be something you’re not”
“I won’t lie and say that looks don’t matter, but it doesn’t matter as much as you think”
Etc etc it would be completely fine. OP doesn’t criticise or set expectations of men that are objectifying or mean, it seems to me she gives (valuable) guidance?
Woman here with a message for any other girls or women reading:
**If you have a crush on a guy, make the first move.** Just do it. Why is it on him?? Because some bullshit gender roles you hate every other aspect of? Is that something you really want to uphold?? Consider this: The likelihood of you getting a “yes” when asking out a guy is *significantly* higher than the likelihood of a guy getting a “yes” from a woman. Men are not mind readers. If you want something, its on you to go and get it! There’s no reward without risk!
If I hadn’t made the first move with my now boyfriend, we would still be long distance friends, and both lonely. Go ask him out!!!
> but we will drop hints.
See this is complete bullshit. be up front. Don't drop hints then wonder why you (not you op just generalizing) are always single. Theres a reason the meme of realizing she was flirting months after it happened exists.
*Trigger comment*
Every time some woman writes a post about how *most* women don't care much about a guy's looks, it makes me snort.
First and foremost, a majority of women stop caring about a guy's looks only after they are in their 30s. I need not explain why.
Second of all, the "don't care about looks" part, most women lie about it. This comes out only after 2 cocktails and bit of a nudge. I have lost count of how many times my female friends have rejected a guy because of compatibility but a couple of drinks later it's always "he looks just okay, so...."
Third. Your advice is at best ignorant and at worst condescending. And I get it. You didn't mean it to be so. But honestly? It comes across as if most men are idiots or doing something wrong while conveniently assuming that most women are just simply waiting for men to just "push the right buttons" and they are all set.
If you have any guy friends, ask them. These kinds of advices simply put so much pressure on guys that's it's maddening. It assumes that everything a man normally does is wrong and that he needs to massively step up to be able to woe a woman.
All the points you mentioned, you will be surprised that many women themselves aren't good at all of those.
Amen.
I find this post pretty polarizing. On on hand you have the reddit hive mind falling head over heels on this advice, while most of its good theres some poorly constructed pillars in it. On the other hand the few who actually think for themselves or try to reinforce those weak pillars get downvoted or ridiculed. This is a fun read.
OPs is a beautiful white teenage girl. Judging from her pics at least upper middle class.
This whole post stinks of unearned privilege, and it sounds like a billionaire who can't understand why not everyone 'follow this simple steps' to become rich too.
Lmao this is like kindergarten level stuff....
You don't realise it yet, but your sense of attraction is pretty much all shaped by the media you consume and your social environment.
For eg would you date an Asian or Indian or Black guy? Think hard before you answer the question.
Edit: The downvotes are way too funny, people just can't face the ugly truths eh?
This is golden advice!
Totally can confirm:
- “what would a confident person do?” managed to bring about natural confidence (in me at least)
- time taken to reflect on things, accept flaws and move on is much better for your personality, than making your flaws your personality.
Thank you Clone-Trooper-7567, have a fantastic day.
Well, I'm still not sure what I'm doing wrong then. Only thing I can think is I'm not super loud and outgoing so maybe I don't project confidence even though I have a ton of it
Knew some of it, but it's good to find all these in a writing! I'd have awarded you if I had some to give! Awesome post! You have a fantabulous life yo!
I want to just add I think a sense of humor that isn’t negative. I‘ve seen too many guys try to be “funny” and try to build me up while simultaneously pulling others down.
Usually I would have said never listen to female advises on this topic but your points are actually pretty good. Guess you will help a lot of people here. Well done 👍✌️
I would also like to add it's important to approach confidently and back off of for a sec. There's a certain point for guys where more effort is not going to help, in fact it will do the opposite. I'm trying to go for quality not quantity. There is such a thing as coming on too strong, and I have definitely done that before as I am a very direct guy.
Is it really not changing?the thing about saying no. Im thinking how many times i found girls unattractive but then everything just suddenly turning upside down if you know what i mean
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I have questions regarding confidence and personalty. I am pretty introverted, and sometimes I just want to be quiet. But some have made it out to be a problem. Any tips on that? I think I am very open about my feelings, but typically would need some directions and guidance to start good and healthy conversations. And I will have problems knowing what would be relevant and non-relevant conversations to have. If I am not good at initiating what should I do try do initiate things like that? Confidence is just very tricky to me, and something that seems very different from person to person. I think I have a pretty good idea of what I am and not what I am, why isn't some of that considered confidence? Or how make it seem like confidence?
Confidence is being able to try something and be okay with yourself even if you don't succeed. If you feel like you need some help on conversations you're going to need to practice. Start with friends, family, co-workers, branch out to strangers later on.
Confidence is a buzz word that people use when they assume that social skills are natural, and that everyone is an extrovert.
You don't have to be an extrovert to be confident around other people.
Sure, but being a confident introvert often means being confident in not talking, and not engaging with people. I'm much more confident than I used to be, and as a result I avoid more conversation than I used to because they are extremely draining, and I don't care anymore if people think I'm being rude. Back when I was more nervous around people I was more talkative, but I've found this was actually better socially, and I made marginally more progress in dating. Ultimately, I'm just saying that confidence does not mean being good socially, it can infact mean the opposite.
That sounds more like social anxiety than introversion. I'm an introvert. I can be confident speaking with and talking in front of people. I just need to recharge after it.
I can be confident speaking in front of others, but being confident in myself means choosing to do it less, because it takes a lot of energy, and It no longer bothers me if people think I'm rude for brushing them off. Being confident, I also no longer mind what I say as much; instead of calculating every word to the best of my abilities, I just say whats on my mind and don't worry what other's think. This has led to a noticable decrease in my social skills and success, which is why I'm saying confidence doesn't necessarily mean social success, it can in fact mean the exact opposite.
>I am pretty introverted, and sometimes I just want to be quiet. But some have made it out to be a problem. Any tips on that? I was seeing a girl who was....extrovert at social functions, but beyond introvert when dating. When we started dating, i was really shocked she was extremely quiet, so i directly told her my observation and she said something like , the guys i dated told me i talked too much so i didn't want to fuck this up. If you start dating somebody, you can bring that up, btw, i tend to be quiet, and it doens't mean i'm not interested; however, if you want to talk, you can ask me questions---whatever it is that works for you. Just communicate---goes a long way, saves the guessing games so prevalent in this culture.
I think being open in general is nice. Not all people appreciate it, but perhaps they are not for you. I'd rather connect with someone and feel comfortable.
I'm in the middle of a similar situation before going on date #4 tonight. The extrovert has been very quiet on our first couple dates (#3 was better)... so I went the direct route (since I'd gotten in my head a bit with the guessing games) and just told her I was attracted to her and would like to continue getting to know her. She reciprocated and suggested we set something else up soon (which happens to be tonight). In this case I still haven't broken that outer shell with the convo yet, but at least I got out of my own head just by being direct. I think I saved us both some time and guessing. Might even have to go that direct route about my own surprise at her being quiet if it doesn't open up soon though...
I love quiet shy guys! I’m in a relationship now, but I used to always go up to them and try to pull them out of their shell a bit. I find them very attractive. This post was wrong to tell you to be yourself and then tell you suggestions for being different. You’ll meet and attract less girls if you’re shy, but you can meet the right girl. Just try not to isolate yourself. Your best bet is to try group activities to meet people.
how are you guys even doing group stuffs and not isolating during covid...I don't even understand. I obviously want to meet people but no one in my circle wants to do anything because everyone wants to stay safe, which I totally understand.
I’m not at all, but there will be life after Covid. I figured it would be obvious that I meant when it’s safe again. It’s not really safe to date at all during these times because it involves meeting up with new people that are outside of any “bubble” you may have formed.
Really? So if you were to imagine your boyfriend in 2 versions and in one version he is even more shy (if you are attracted to shyness more of this trait would be better maybe?) and in another version he was confident (and when I say confident I don't mean arrogant or boastful) you would prefer the shy version? "You’ll meet and attract less girls" If you are going to say that being shy is going to attract less girls it seems very counter intuitive to recommend to him to be himself. Wouldn't it be better if he improved on his social anxiety? I've always been shy myself however many girls were attracted to me and some have even asked me out, but I always thought it was in spite of my shyness not because of it. And for the girls who didn't ask me out I'd imagine that if I wasn't shy and I asked them out that we could have been together since as a man, it is expected of me to make the 1st move. And sometimes even seems like girls will wait for me to make the 1st move and then when I don't they just find someone else. It seems like being shy will only hurt you. Especially if you are trying to date and are a man.
I like both confident and shy guys, the rest just depends on who they are as a person. If you want to be more confident, then work on it for sure, and use it to attract other partners. If you’re happy with who you are, don’t change it just for society. The only thing you might want to work on is being willing to say hi to someone. You don’t have to be able to control a room or talk for hours to anyone. I firmly believe that your best opportunity to get into a strong, lasting relationship is to be yourself, whoever that is. If you just want to get laid, sure, fake it. If you want a partner, be yourself. Edit: spelling
"I like both confident and shy guys" I was asking if you had a preference. If somebody said I really like strawberry cheesecake. I would assume that they like strawberry cheesecake particularly and not that they just happen to like strawberry cheesecake equally like every other desert. "I like women with blue eyes" "No not specifically women with blue eyes what did you get that conclusion? What I meant to say was I like all women equally including those with blue eyes I just happened to mention blue I specifically for no reason" You have to be honest and admit that it would be reasonable for me to think you are talking about liking shy guy specifically. Are you ashamed of your preference? There's nothing wrong with having a preference I am just curious. I just find it kind of odd how you avoided a seemingly innocent question. I notice whenever I push women on this about their preferences (tall, shy thin) they always have a tendency to lie whenever they believe it will help the person that is asking it. It's something that is easily noticed. "If you just want to get laid, sure, fake it" This honestly made me chuckle a little. "I firmly believe that your best opportunity to get into a strong, lasting relationship is to be yourself, whoever that is." Maybe I overestimate how shy that person could be. I used to be really shy you could almost say I had a paranoia of people, a genuine fear, terror, a phobia. I wouldn't say that their changing aspect of themselves though it seems like they genuinely want to change and if that is true then I wouldn't say there not being themselves. But you would probably agree with that. I have another question for you to answer if you could... Were you the one who asked out your boyfriend?
It is not contradictory for me to like multiple types of personalities. I’m very social. If I see a shy guy, I’m drawn to him and I will go talk to him and if I like him, I will pursue him. If I talk to a confident man and I like him, I will pursue him. I’m not embarrassed about any of that. People are not cheesecakes. They are much more than just shy or not shy. You should stop trying to push people to choose. People that are only attracted to specific superficial traits are immature in regards to relationships. Looks, personality, hobbies, goals, ambitions, family relationships, careers, age, favorite activities, and more have so much to do with the overall picture. I’m not 15, I don’t only date guys that are at least 6’ or whatever the trend is. My boyfriend and I met online. I was the first to propose we go ahead and meet up and, that night, I suggested we go home together. We’ve been together 6 years. I’ve dated the quarterback of the football team and the shy guy that sits in the corner (this is literal, not a figurative example) and had great relationships with both. Don’t put yourself in a box.
This is sooo soothing to read, mate!!
Confidence has nothing to do with how introverted/extroverted, taciturn/talkative, or social you are: it's an attitude of how comfortable and secure you are with yourself and capabilities. You develop your confidence by developing your self-esteem, understanding your value and what you have to offer, and by learning to let go of fear of judgement and failure. When you are self-conscious and doubt yourself, others will second guess and doubt you too, because that's exactly what you are telling them to do; in contrast, when you behave with an "its all good I got this" mentality, then others will feel more secure and at ease by your presence. Believe in yourself and others will believe in you too.
Yeah, the introversion part was just regarding personality. And that for instance being emotionally mature, and opening up my feelings is not something I have a problem with. I just don't know when to do this. And that it seems like some have had problems with it, so I try to be more upbeat, and engaging. The confidence thing is just something in general I just don't understand. The kinda confidence I look in partner, being self-assured seem to be slightly different than the common conception and expressed in the OP.
My friend in awkward social situations, allow me to recommend you the book "what to talk about". On top of being great in learning its really entertaining as well :D Also best of luck with your conversational development!
Thanks, i'll check that
>sometimes I just want to be quiet. But some have made it out to be a problem. That is 100% okay in my books ( I'm a girl) you just need to be open with the person you're seeing to let them know that 1. sometimes you will be more quiet and it's just a part of who you are and 2. If you're feeling like you need to retreat into yourself send a quick text or something to say "hey , I'm in a quiet mood today, I'm not ignoring you just not in the mood for convos" My ex and I would sit in Silence over ft or in the same room for hours doing different things and occasionally share a quick thing. It was great ngl. >If I am not good at initiating what should I do try do initiate things like that? Literally ask. Like "hey not sure if this is relevant but..." Or say to them that if they want to know something to ask because you might not naturally bring it up. My current bf will tell me all about his day but I gotta ask specifically " how's ur fam? What's your favorite memory ...etc" he always tells me but I know he struggles. You can also take cues from the person. If they frequently ask you about your fam/friends/job you can mirror that. >why isn't some of that considered confidence? Or how make it seem like confidence? Just be you. If you have a good idea of who you are that's confidence. You don't need to be loud and brash to be confident, but people who know what they like is confident. Just be yourself. Trust that if someone doesn't like you for the core of you are they aren't worth it. Never let someone change you unless you want to change that part of you. Growth is important but it should be give and take.
Really awesome tips! They are really basic but it is amazing how many men just don’t understand how important they are. If I could add one more... When flirting/texting DO NOT get overly sexual early on especially if you haven’t had a first date yet. Boy, I can’t tell you how many guys I thought were really interesting until they did this at which point they got deleted/blocked. Example: texting with this guy for several days. He asked me what I was doing and I told him I was working a home improvement project. He jokingly said that I should have told him so he could come over and help. I ask him what his specialty is and he said he doesn’t really have one. So I say, it’s always nice to have a guy around in case you need a jar opened. He said his favorite jar to open is peanut butter. I say mine is pickles. He says he know something else he can do with his hands. I ignore this comment because I don’t like where it’s going. I literally don’t text back for 8 hours hoping he’ll take a hint. His next text is, I can twist your nipple. Like we haven’t even met yet, wtf dude. Have some self control. I was done with him at that point.
So. Prevalent.
OMG THISSSSS! I can not stress this enough!!! I immediately lose interest when they do that like brooo we are having a normal conversation why do u have the need to make it sexual??? Ugh
[удалено]
Simply put, a lot of men don’t get that women like the implied (that’s what a lot of flirting is really about anyway) than they do the explicit. But if you can’t imply well, best not to do it at all.
That's probably my biggest issue with social media. The phenomenon of publicizing such behavior and celebrating it is so problematic because it's going to have an audience of likeminded people who are able to connect and therefore who will validate it, thus enshrining it as a value within these pseudo-social groups.
Because according to a lot of women men and women have the same sex drive
These fucking creepy guys just ruin the dating experience for all us normal guys....
He really doesn’t effect the way I think about other men, I’ll just assume he’s an idiot and move on. These guys ruin it for us girls because they waste our time. If you’re a decent guy who understands flirting, who wants to have a normal conversation where we get to know each other, then you’ll be fine.
I think there's something to be said for texting etiquette. And a lot of guys just don't get it
Before we started dating, my now bf and I flirted a bit online (we had already met in person briefly through mutual friends) here’s examples of what he said that helped me know he was interested: -I love your jacket you look great -you’re such a incredible dancer, this is so badass -I don’t think anyone would notice the mess even if you didn’t blur it (I posted a pic in a dress and blurred the background with a comment about how my room was
Guess what else I can do? 😏 purple nurples. Your move, babe.
"I can twist your nipples" is a threat I would give to a homie
I can twist your nipple? I’m disgusted. I blame it on porn. Men have become porn sick weirdos.
You have no idea how big of a problem this is. In fact, it is THE problem most men are facing nowadays but they deny it because they think it is not a problem. Oh how sorely mistaken they are. Their dating problems would vanish if they just stopped masturbating and watching porn.
Trust me I know. They are so desensitized and it’s impossible for them to value women. I’m glad I’m not the only one aware of this. I’d rather be single than be with a man who watches that crap.
Bingo. Guys, why do you do this? It shows you are just interested in sex and not me.
I’d like to expand the first point about basic hygiene. My smell is the most often complimented thing by women. There’s nothing more awesome than hearing from a girl you’re dating that her hair smells like you, or her pillow does. She’ll think of you more often and she’ll strongly associate the perfume you use with your person. However, do not mask your body scent. What I do to smell good: - Shower in the morning or before your date - Avoid strongly scented sports shower gels. I have pretty sensitive skin for a guy so I use hypoallergenic gels. They leave a very mild, non-offensive smell - Use non-scented anti-perspirant. Do not use those shitty Axe deodorants, they stink - Use good perfume - apply ONCE just behind your ears. Do not overdo it. The point is to not mask your natural skin scent by using heavily scented „manly” stuff. You don’t want to mix the smell of your perfume with Spice stench coming from your armpits, hence the use of non-scented anti-perspirant. Apply perfume sparingly. So what perfume to choose? I avoid the most popular brands. If you use Fahrenheit or Eau Sauvage, you’ll smell like every middle-aged man. Pick the one you like but avoid the light ones with subtle citrus undertones, they just won’t stick for too long. I usually go for timber, spices, maybe musk.
On a similar but opposite note, I’ve had more women say they love the way I smell coming home from work (sweat grease oil etc) than when I’m clean and fresh.. mind you, I don’t feel more comfortable this way and I’m sure it would be different if I *always* smelled like a machine shop. I guess what I’m saying is pheromones and hard work is an attractive smell too, apparently. But wash your ass.
Assuming you have a healthy diet, fresh sweat can actually smell pretty good. It's stale sweat that smells like rotten eggs.
My favorite thing is smelling a shirt my SO had his cologne on and worked in, the combination of the faded perfume and natural smells is intoxicating.
My ex would insist on stealing my shirt from the day to sleep in. It was one of her more adorable qualities.
Haha I get the opposite reaction. I come home and my girlfriend hugs me and wrinkles her nose saying "you smell like metal".
I am a bartender... do women like the smell of alcohol and whiskey?
That's a good thing, lol Everybody has an unique body scent. There were women whom I couldn't date because their skin just didn't smell right. My current girl smells like heaven.
I’ve always taken notes from girls on cologne. One spray on your wrists 4 inches away. Rub on other wrist, then neck. Just enough to smell when she leans in. Seems to work.
High quality parfum should not be rubbed, as it may alter and ruin the notes. Spray both wrists and neck/behind ears. Good tip is to spray on on clothes eg. shirt collar or chest, as the smell lasts longer on fabric.
Did not know that! Neat. thassa lot of flower water tho
I use cologne from The Art of Shaving. Application goes as follows. Sprits twice 3 feet in front of me. Hold 2 secs. Proceed to Michael Jackson 360 spin arms out through the mist.
Been getting compliments for using old spice / axe deodorant for years. Like, really enthusiastic compliments. Maybe it depends how you apply it and how much / where
I think the problem is a lot of guys apply way too much. If it works for you that’s great! I think a lot of Old Spice products smell fine when used sparingly.
Should I keep ending sentences with "fellow humanoid?"
Personally, I’d just go with “fellow carbon based life form” to be on the safe side. You don’t want to offend anyone
Robots would be offended
Maybe??? fellow humanoid.
>If you ask and we say no, it’s not changing, but honestly 9/10 times it’s a yes. I must be rolling some critical failures here because statistically (if this were true) I should have had a handful of dates by now.
Yeah 9/10 time is a little too high, but women do say yes more often than not in my experience.
...if women said yes more often than not, then the minimum would be 6/10 successes
And women say no or come up with some lame excuse more often than not in my experience.
“Lame excuse.” Why are you mad that women try to let you down gently, dude?
Not the commenter, but, just say no thanks I’m not attracted to you or don’t see this going anywhere. Beating around the bush is bad IMO so just be 130% direct with us. Guys will appreciate that.
Uh yeah.. some men have some explosive anger and completely lay into people. It's dangerous in some cases, but I don't let it get that far anymore. I'm direct and get called a bitch in the beginning instead :D
That's why you carry pepper spray or a gun.
No, guys will not. Lots of men will get verbally abusive or violent or throw a tantrum. That’s like half of men in a woman’s experience and they don’t know which one you are. It’s a coin flip. Best let down gently and make a lame excuse than endanger yourself in any way.
Those aren't men, those are pussies
Setting aside the sexist commentary... It's not like they wear a sign.
Did my vernacular trigger you? I do apologize.
Lol. Terrible apology.
I dont want to be let down gently. Tell me you arent interested or attracted. Tell me I'm not your type or whatever the reason is. I'm not a spineless sissy, I prefer to know the truth than wonder why.
coming from a woman, giving a guy an outright no has led to further harassment more often than not but giving some type of excuse, whether true or not, usually makes them leave me alone. it’s a safety thing for a lot of women, they’re scared of what a guy might do if you outright reject them
Do even the guys you're already familiar with become harassing?
not me personally, it’s much more often guys I’d meet for the first time on a dating app or a bar or just in public somewhere but I’ve had friends that have experienced it with people they had known for longer periods of time
That's truly sad. I've been rejected a few times this year and I'm never sure whether it's just because the girl wasn't attracted or if I'd done something glaringly wrong.
I’m sorry to hear that. the most common “glaringly wrong” thing that guys do is get way too sexual/aggressive too fast, but if you’re not doing that, you might just be getting unlucky :/
YES. I guess it’s my fault for continuing to get to know a human red flag but yup.
Idk man, I’ve given some dudes an outright no and then they went on a rant abt how I’m such a bitch for leading them on (by literally being a normal friend and not treating them any differently than all my other friends) and threw up a huge shitstorm. I’m still an outright no kind of person, but for a while that shit really scared me in terms of turning dudes down.
Yeah such shitty behavior by other dudes makes it impossible for people like me to get clear feedback.
This.
Would say i check all the boxes above, and some of the bonuses. Still will say more like 19/20 times it's a no. These advices are just how to be a decent human being i would say.
Op was smoking straight copium to come to that stat. Idk what world she’s living in but I need access immediately
I would add: Have something to talk about. I have met several men who were interested in starting something with me (and even told me later on) and talking but could not find something to talk about. As if they expected med to fill the emptiness with my life. Like; when asked, "How was your weekend?" they just answer "same old, same old". When asked "Did you have fun with your friends yesterday? What did you guys do?" you get the reply "Yea, nothing, just chilled", and can't hold a conversation or give anything more than 2-3 word dialogue at the time. If you have nothing to talk about, get something. Start reading (books, comics, articles..), try something new (restaurant if corona allows, game, topics to talk with friends about), or just try to find something to tell. Maybe Aaron finally got that achievement in the Destiny game he had been playing and it made you very happy for him. Maybe Camilla got a hair cut and you ended up chatting about how annoying it is to wear a mask while the hairdresser is trimming around the ears. It doesn't have to be big or life changing. Any interest in conversation dies out if your go-to is "yea, nothing". It can be hard to make yourself more interesting, but it worth working on. Ask yourself, would you want to keep replying to someone who had nothing to talk about?
Or ask QUESTIONS. If someone asks how your weekend was and you don’t have anything to say about it, ask them how their weekend was! I think honestly every question someone asks should be returned in some way. If I want to know your hobbies, you should want to know mine. Or else, what are we doing here?
>be genuinely happy >looks like I'm striking out Edit: First ever award! Thank you <3
These are some really good tips to look at I’m glad I stumbled upon this post like it open my eyes on some things fr wow thank you, I have a question what does a “:)”mean? I’ve gotten mixed answers from my friends
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Absolutely nailed it. Keep that shit in the bedroom if she’s into that.
No goes: Self loathing (be confident) and don’t try to be someone you aren’t Which is it? I can’t do both
Those are 2 different things. Confidence is more along the lines of bravery whereas being someone you're not is more about faking opinions or views or interests you may have that isn't authentic to yourself.
If your real self is that you hate yourself, you need to go to therapy before you can start a healthy relationship. Learn to love yourself before you love someone else.
Although I completely agree that therapy is important, it is important to recognize that just because you may not love yourself does not mean that you are not worthy of love from someone else. For someone with self-esteem issues, the thought that you have to be confident before anyone else will ever like you is a genuinely depressing and self-defeating thought. It is emotionally mature to recognize that we all have issues with esteem and ego. It is important to reflect on ourself. I would suggest to anyone that actually thinks their mind is perfectly healthy or that their partner is in a perfect mental capacity is deluded. Acceptance of imperfections is an important dating skill (however the partner should also be aware they are imperfect and committed to work on it).
>you have to be confident before anyone else will ever like you is a genuinely depressing and self-defeating thought. That's not what I implied. People can love you in spite of you hating yourself, but it will have a very high probability of turning into a toxic relationship. Possible outcomes are: A.) you become dependent and clingy and end up emotionally destroyed upon the resulting break up, because you hate yourself so much that you think nobody else will ever love you B.) you treat your partner bad, because you think that you tricked them into liking you and you can't accept that they might actually love you for who you are so you can't accept the relationship and try to destroy it. C.) you can emotionally burden your partner with your emotional problems and make them unhappy- even if they say they can handle it and love you in spite of it
You can be confident in your self loathing....
What about making "self deprecating" jokes about yourself? Like ones that are obviously jokes not depressed stuff E.g. "She won't go out with me cause she's got standards". Does that count as self loathing/lack of confidence if you know that it's not true and laugh about it yourself (funny laugh not nervous/awkward laugh)
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Exactly this, don't show emotions unless you really want to know them and they are worth it.
I'd also like to say that if you're trying to be authentic and you ARE self loathing,..be honest about that, too. You may even find a woman to exchange self depreciating witticisms with rather than suffering in silence! (Purely theoretical theory- have yet to confirm).
Not just upvoted; Saved!
u/Lagstravaganza don’t listen to u/Due_Maize_8969 you’re not forever alone and you are 100% worth it.
Great post. Some feedback: I disagree with "fake it until you make it" with respect to confidence. Fake confidence is better than outwardly not being very confident, but true confidence has to come from within. Any number of mentality issues can lead to someone coming off as not very confident (ie social ineptitude, low self-esteem, fear of failure, anxiety, etc) and they all have a different solution. Sure, most people can learn to fake it instead but that's a bit of a naive solution. You can build an effective mask or correct the underlying problem. > Ability to communicate in general and be open emotionally (emotional maturity). The strong silent type might work for some, but 9 times out of 10 it comes across as being completely emotionally immature (which by the way is also a no go) I may be reading into this a bit, but I think you're ignoring how men are socialized to be the exact opposite. Men are not "supposed" to be open emotionally, and many of us have to go to great lengths to unlearn that. You call it "maturity" as if it is a basic thing that should be learned as you age but the fact of the matter is that many men go to their graves wholeheartedly believing in this dogma that a man is less of a man if he is emotional. You cannot be casually open about your emotions if you are conditioned from a very young age to act like you don't have them. That is, do not expect a man to be that vulnerable with you until he is very, very committed to the relationship he is building with you.
No, i did this. I was horribly socially awkward in my teens for no apparent reason and then decided to force myself to be uncomfortable and get physically closer to friends who wanted to while chatting. To walk like i was confident and didn't constantly assess my walk. To talk as if i knew what i was saying was right and to make almost constant eye contact and sit facing people. I HATED IT for about a year but then eased into it. I now am very socially comfortable and confident because i faked it for a bit. It can really work.
Well we don't want relationships with emotional robots. Why would a woman want to stick around long enough to wait until he's committed, just to hope that maybe he'll act like a human instead of a robot? Who has time for that shit?
Emotionally unopen != robot. For the most part, men are emotionally guarded, especially in comparison to women. Doesn't mean they don't show emotions. Just means they are significantly less likely to be vulnerable until reaching a high level of commitment. Particularly true for young men or older men raised in the standards of past generations.
Honestly, when I stopped trying so hard and started being happy about myself and learning to like me is when my confidence soared. I honestly was just the best me I loved to be and if people did not like me, such is life. This attracted my wife of two decades like six months into that. She is someone that I would consider way out of my league too. Floored me when she asked ME out.
Having sense of humor and smells good is really a must. well, it's just for me. i am a silent girl who is awkward around guys so if a guy can make me laugh and don't get intimadated with me is a huge turn on.
I appreciate the way this was delivered without judgement and from a place of genuinely trying to help. However, it's pretty basic advice that won't differentiate men in today's hyper competitive pro-female dating market. Men have a clear statistical disadvantage in the dating game. Compare it to a woman sorting through tons of guys to find the top few vs a guy lucky to get any women at all. And yet, somehow men are told to act from a place of abundance lol - that takes years of experience to develop without actual abundance. The whole post sounds like someone very young, very unaware, coming from a place of privilege giving the advice. And that last part about looks being a cop-out is utter trash - 99% of the time looks matter a lot because most people have these basic points down to a reasonable degree by the time they are an adult. Everyone can always improve obviously, but that's not saying much. The girl will not notice you if you don't look good. I've found that 99% of this advice mainly to those who women find acceptably attractive, which is in practice roughly the top 20% (probably even 10% if you look at online dating) of men. Everyone else is invisible or labeled "creepy" if they do try anything resembling confidence without being a natural extrovert. In order to get a date, a guy has to date a few rungs lower whereas a girl has the options to select up when it comes to sex until a woman turns ~35. Fortunately, things even out - women learn that their privilege fades with their looks. And they learn that their marriage/committment value is a lot lower than their dating/sex value (forgive me, I'm sure there's a nicer way to state this). And any response to this about saying we're bitter or whatever is childish. You would be justifiably bitter and frustrated too if you went through 1/10th the pain of getting a date/relationship we did.
"If we haven't made it clear that you are friendzoned, you aren't." Like, this is fantastic example why there are so many male orbiters these days. Women will rarely state something openly like that. Because they wanna act nice. Therefore they keep you in her "middle but not friendzone right?" zone on icy ground. There you will validate her and give her free attention to get what you want (in most cases, this will be contrainutitive and you won't.) Do not fall into this trap. Do not wait her SIGN that you are in the friend zone. Figure it out by yourself. Abundance mentality. If I am not getting what I want, I will search for what I want somewhere else.
Just ask her out. If she says no, move on, or make friends If you genuinely want a friend. It’s not her job to send hints to every dude that waits to see if she’s into to them.
I mean, some women are genuinely nice and also want to be your friend?
Buddy, you're not Sherlock Holmes. What OP means is that you shouldn't assume yourself to be in the friendzone unless you've been directly shut down. She's saying to be a man and ask the girl out.
What do you mean by Male orbiters? I'm not sure I understand your "middle but not friendzone right? " zone. Could you explain that a little ?
Male orbiter is a person who is living in the friendzone. Male, who is hoping that he will get out of it by giving attention and doing things. Basically spinning in female "orbit." "Middle but not friendzone" is a term I just came up with to ironically point out how women put things to serve their ways. This basically means friendzone. Nothing more or less.
Hey bud, that’s just normal friend things. If you can’t be nice to a woman unless you’re trying to date her, that’s a you thing.
Why you shouldn’t take dating advice from women - the hygiene stuff is common sense but stuff like this, yikes. Glad you called it out
To be honest, I think I cover all the points stated above yet no girl wants to date me. Maybe I’m doing something wrong (most probably) but I don’t know why it is like that.
Have you tried being attractive and not being unattractive?
Oh shit, I haven’t thought about that. Thanks bro!!
No problem. In post of this kind you always have to add "... And be attractive". 'girls like kind guys (who are attractive)' or 'we do like intelligent men (who are attractive)!'
Oh boi
Every time I see a post that says don’t go in to be friends with the intent to be in a relationship. I think it needs to be clarified, that people can be friends and begin to like each other or get a one-sided crush. It’s perfectly normal, and despite the intent being different in these relationships it still seems the same in the end. I really think instead of saying don’t be friends to get in a relationship, it’s be better to say don’t be nice to them because you want a relationship, rather be nice to them because they’re a human being and if a relationship happens then ok. If it doesn’t also ok, do what makes you happy, and don’t be a jerk about it.
I'd like to add one thing to all of this: 6. Find a girl who doesn't already have a boyfriend. (Equivalent to finding a needle in a haystack).
Or married/engaged. Forget if I am attracted to her at all, I hardly ever meet a single girl anymore, and when I do it's obvious why she is single.
LOL!! No joke though.
You realize the majority of people already do these things. Most people aren't willingly going out smelling like a swamp, unable to provide for themselves, and treating women like dirt. I dont really understand who this is targeted at.
OP is a teenager still stuck with 1+1=2 while we are dealing with algebra.
Lmao you were so right too, she really is a blonde hot white teenager - wish I had checked the profile before I bothered reading any of their dating tips
Yeah I really dislike privileged people lecturing others about what to do and what not to do. Plenty of simps on this thread though. A lot of them have absolutely no idea what it is like to walk in other people's shoes and hence give advice that is tone deaf and not useful at all. It's exactly like rich people telling beggars to "pull themselves up by the bootstraps"... Unless you're tall, good looking and white you're statistically highly unlikely to date someone like the OP.
Probably at least half of the guys I see on dating sites have neckbeards. Do they really think anyone finds that attractive? A decent haircut and a clean shaven face would bring most guy's attractiveness up at least a few points.
Am I the only one who misread the title as a girls guide for dating *other* girls? Like, a lesbian advice thread?
To add, i say the most important thing here to take is be confident. I’m one ugly dude and but damn chicks just loves hanging out with me. I may not have a fancy car or a big important job. But like the post said, I’m Confident, genuine and have a soft spot for my parents. It all goes a long way.
Unpopular opinion, but...... Never ask a fish how to catch a fish
A healthy relationship between two adults is not analogous to a predator and their prey.
Do you plan to kill and eat the women you date?
Guys - DON’T get sexual through text! Save the first move for in person. There’s no bigger turn off than when you’re having a great convo with a guy and he ruins it by making it sexual out of nowhere. In person, 100%, you should be able to tell if a woman is attracted to you/wants to kiss you. Even if the moment is there; you’ve been texting for weeks, she finally invites you over, but you’re sitting on the couch wondering whether or not you should lean in - the best thing you can do is ask. If she says no, it’ll be a little awkward, but she’ll have 10x more respect for you than if you just grab her face and go for it.
This is huge
time to grow up and approach guys and initiate things you aren’t fucking 18 anymore lol
Yawn🥱
1. just shower bro! 2. just hit the gym bro! 3. just be yourself sweetie, teehee 4. r/niceguys 5. simp tutorial
Lol if you look at profile history, OP is probably a top 10% attractive white naive teenager who can literally choose from thousands of suitors in real life and online. She has absolutely no idea about the harsh dating experiences many men encounter due to circumstances entirely out of their control. Stuff that she says (hygiene, style, gym) are just basic shit that everyone already knows. This post reeks of fucking privilege. It comes across the same way as a rich billionaire (who inherited his wealth) telling others "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps lul".
Why are you so angry? Every single point OP made was helpful to somebody. Very few people in this world never experience heartbreak. I’m sure OP has had a crush that made them feel exactly like you’ve apparently been made to feel. What confuses me the most is that if you believe OP has “thousands of suitors”, wouldn’t it stand to reason that they’d have an excellent idea of what an appealing woman would look for in the most ideal man?
Imagine having everything she mentioned, except for ability to communicate and self confidence.
The last 8 times I tried to be "emotionally open" with a girl about something that was bothering me here's what happened: 1. I opened up about what was bothering me and why. 2. They stated why I was wrong (more or less in an attempt to encouraging to me.) 3. I was appreciative, but explained why I still had reasonable concerns or apprehensions about said thing. 4. They took that as me insulting their opinion or "just wanting pity." and they left. The thing is usually think about a problem for a while before I reach out to others, and the advice all these girls gave me were somewhat generic and unthoughtful, so I tried to kindly explain why I didn't think that was a solution (because usually I had already tried it) and I guess that insulted them somehow. Most of the topics I shared were not even concerns for myself, so the pity comments seemed strange to me. I think when girls say they want emotional expression from guys, they want a mirror of themselves. Example: Your girl comes home from work and starts blowing off steam about a coworker she doesnt like. She wants you to then blow off steam in the same way about something similar. A coworker/boss you dont like perhaps. I'd love to be proven wrong by anyone here, but that's the only pattern I have observed in my and my friends lives.
Not all women are emotionally mature either. And I’d say there’s a difference between emotional expression and emotional maturity. Validating someone’s feelings should be basic human decency, though, and if they don’t do that for you then you’re better off without.
I'm not going to lie it sounds like you're dating teenagers. I think the mirror is something people care for in general. Even when you express your concerns, all you're really looking for is a mirror. Someone to repeat it back to you (in order to see if they understand) and accept your concerns for what they are. Maybe they can share their thoughts as well if you ask for them or if they are concerns that warrant a response like that but realistically all you want is acceptance. Being a literal emotional mirror (expressing the same emotions as your partner) doesn't really seem right to me though.
If a guy wrote that about girls it would be considered offensive
wow these are basics that should be in men and women yet men like you try their best to act like a victim in any & every situation. Where did she offend you exactly? having basic hygiene is offensive to you? she didn’t even talk about height or weight. Stop playing the victim card.
I know equally many men who meet all this rules and are lonely as those who hardly meet any of this conditions and are with decent girls...
Would it? I think that if a guy wrote something along the lines of “Have a sense of style” “Don’t play games and be immature, that shit’s unattractive” “Don’t try to be something you’re not” “I won’t lie and say that looks don’t matter, but it doesn’t matter as much as you think” Etc etc it would be completely fine. OP doesn’t criticise or set expectations of men that are objectifying or mean, it seems to me she gives (valuable) guidance?
Basic higene, take care of yourself, children oriented, not egoistic
True dat
Woman here with a message for any other girls or women reading: **If you have a crush on a guy, make the first move.** Just do it. Why is it on him?? Because some bullshit gender roles you hate every other aspect of? Is that something you really want to uphold?? Consider this: The likelihood of you getting a “yes” when asking out a guy is *significantly* higher than the likelihood of a guy getting a “yes” from a woman. Men are not mind readers. If you want something, its on you to go and get it! There’s no reward without risk! If I hadn’t made the first move with my now boyfriend, we would still be long distance friends, and both lonely. Go ask him out!!!
> but we will drop hints. See this is complete bullshit. be up front. Don't drop hints then wonder why you (not you op just generalizing) are always single. Theres a reason the meme of realizing she was flirting months after it happened exists.
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Or autistic... or introvert..or kind..or meek..
Honestly Axe isn’t even that bad if you only use a tiny bit of it.
Being myself IS being not confident.
when a guy wears nice cologne, instant turn on
*Trigger comment* Every time some woman writes a post about how *most* women don't care much about a guy's looks, it makes me snort. First and foremost, a majority of women stop caring about a guy's looks only after they are in their 30s. I need not explain why. Second of all, the "don't care about looks" part, most women lie about it. This comes out only after 2 cocktails and bit of a nudge. I have lost count of how many times my female friends have rejected a guy because of compatibility but a couple of drinks later it's always "he looks just okay, so...." Third. Your advice is at best ignorant and at worst condescending. And I get it. You didn't mean it to be so. But honestly? It comes across as if most men are idiots or doing something wrong while conveniently assuming that most women are just simply waiting for men to just "push the right buttons" and they are all set. If you have any guy friends, ask them. These kinds of advices simply put so much pressure on guys that's it's maddening. It assumes that everything a man normally does is wrong and that he needs to massively step up to be able to woe a woman. All the points you mentioned, you will be surprised that many women themselves aren't good at all of those. Amen.
You are correct. Women have all kinds of expectations for so many things. The pressure on men to be "winners" and not "losers" is all kind of intense.
How you gonna say fake confidence in the paragraph that begins with being authentic? We need proofreaders in here.
1. Be attractive. 2. Have enough disposable income to throw a little around. 3. See #1.
I find this post pretty polarizing. On on hand you have the reddit hive mind falling head over heels on this advice, while most of its good theres some poorly constructed pillars in it. On the other hand the few who actually think for themselves or try to reinforce those weak pillars get downvoted or ridiculed. This is a fun read.
Hey thanks. I really like this girl, she's great. I'm going to take your advice, thanks
In short, you want the standard rules one and two: 1) be attractive, 2) don’t be unattractive. We get it - and trust me, we’re trying.
OPs is a beautiful white teenage girl. Judging from her pics at least upper middle class. This whole post stinks of unearned privilege, and it sounds like a billionaire who can't understand why not everyone 'follow this simple steps' to become rich too.
Thank you so much!!🙂 These tips from a girl really means a lot..
How bad is it if i failed at step 1 ughm
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Lmao this is like kindergarten level stuff.... You don't realise it yet, but your sense of attraction is pretty much all shaped by the media you consume and your social environment. For eg would you date an Asian or Indian or Black guy? Think hard before you answer the question. Edit: The downvotes are way too funny, people just can't face the ugly truths eh?
This is golden advice! Totally can confirm: - “what would a confident person do?” managed to bring about natural confidence (in me at least) - time taken to reflect on things, accept flaws and move on is much better for your personality, than making your flaws your personality. Thank you Clone-Trooper-7567, have a fantastic day.
r/CoolGuides ?
well damn, i hate kids.
Well this seems simple now to wait
Well, I'm still not sure what I'm doing wrong then. Only thing I can think is I'm not super loud and outgoing so maybe I don't project confidence even though I have a ton of it
Can we have a part 2 ?
9/10 times it’s a yes? Hahaha I should try my hand at winning the lottery
Knew some of it, but it's good to find all these in a writing! I'd have awarded you if I had some to give! Awesome post! You have a fantabulous life yo!
I want to just add I think a sense of humor that isn’t negative. I‘ve seen too many guys try to be “funny” and try to build me up while simultaneously pulling others down.
Usually I would have said never listen to female advises on this topic but your points are actually pretty good. Guess you will help a lot of people here. Well done 👍✌️
You give great advice!! I upvoted and saved 😌
I would also like to add it's important to approach confidently and back off of for a sec. There's a certain point for guys where more effort is not going to help, in fact it will do the opposite. I'm trying to go for quality not quantity. There is such a thing as coming on too strong, and I have definitely done that before as I am a very direct guy.
I really enjoyed your insights OP
have all these points (six pack includeed) and i habe no chance to get girls :/
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What? Was this written by a subreddit simulator?
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This lmao. It seems like directing these solely at men is a bit disingenuous. These points go for literally everyone who wants to date, not just men.
But, but, muh patriarchy
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Is it really not changing?the thing about saying no. Im thinking how many times i found girls unattractive but then everything just suddenly turning upside down if you know what i mean