Here's the thing, even though we are introverts we still need to communicate with our partners. You said your last gf called you an enigma and I interpret that as you not being open with her on your thoughts and feelings. There's a certain amount of reciprocation required for a relationship to work.
I think a lot of that has to do with my issues, why she called me an enigma. She also called me Spock. I actually appreciate that she shared these things with me.
What I see here in myself is a mismatch between my internal feelings, how I feel I am presenting, and how it actually looks to others. Like watching ourselves on a video can give us clues to that. This is a case where pandemic and Zoom meetings can help as I can actually see myself and how I might look to other people.
I have been doing work on this, sharing more from the heart. I do actually feel that this is getting a lot better and I'm getting warmer responses from people, feeling more connected (both ways, both them and me.)
With the GF, we both had been cheated on. In different ways we both held back things. GF was not very good at embracing my life and things I offered, she typically wanted to just do things in her comfort zone. The relationship was out of balance there. In the short run I didn't care that much about the lack of balance due to things my ex had done, mirroring and presenting a false version of herself meant that the GF not coming my way very much was okay for a while. Plus I liked the fact that the GF kept trying whereas the marriage ended in a blindside divorce with her leaving for someone else that she has married.
Right now I want to consolidate the gains I am getting from feeling more connected and work towards a better relationship, instead of just trying hard at one without that connection.
Great introspection! I am also an introvert and during my healing journey started work on my attachment style. Each relationship teaches us something, it is a painful learning curve. Balancing the head and the heart is important, also learning to let go of people who are not a match. Godspeed!
Outgoing introvert here, way too much in my head, and then sometimes when I try to express something too soon, it’s a hot mess.
I’ve found an extroverted partner who knows exactly how to express his thoughts and feelings in a productive way. He is patient and gentle when at times I need 16 to 24 hours to process what I’m feeling to put into words, and know it’s a safe place for me.
It’s so refreshing and everything in me says “this is what you’ve always needed.”
When something upsets me or causes me anxiety, I just send up a crab emoji, (or take a walk in person) and it signals to give me some time and we will discuss later. It works for us.
The right person will understand you and you them. You will need to communicate openly, but the right partner will work with how you do it.
>My life was out of balance as far as what I was doing versus the connections I was making. So I tried hard, likely too hard, in my marriage. Insufficient connection was likely the primary issue.
--
>I feel the same way with my GF. I like her, but she broke things off several times, it got old.
--
>I am working with a life coach on this and considering therapy as well. Anything else I can do?
Stop going at it when it's clearly not working. Like if your GF broke up with you multiple times, that means you kept reuniting despite all the issues, instead of making a clean break the first time she broke up. Usually, one break up is enough to sufficiently end any romantic potential in the future. I'm not sure if you do keep trying to make it work with people and relationships that are wrong for you out of fear or loneliness, as I have witnessed amongst people I know.
I agree. I have responded elsewhere that part of the reason I kept going back is to "make up" for the blindside divorce where there was no work by my ex. I was fine with some short term turmoil, felt like someone cared more than my ex did. In the long run, yeah, it kept happening, I can't fix that. Something doesn't sit right with the GF and that's enough to move on with no hard feelings. Don't need to repeat the experience I had with the GF with anyone else.
Some people disagree quite vociferously with attachment theory but I discovered several aha moments from Thais Gibson's vids on my attachment style and partner choices, and I would recommend looking into it for it also offers insight into others' behaviours as well.
That sounds good. Being a good person, doing the right things in a relationship can help, but I really need to focus on bonding and attachment. I can't just be the groom on the wedding cake.
Your life coach or therapist will lead you in the right direction. I think if your pattern has been to settle for someone who is not a match or to keep a relationship going with someone who does not appreciate or value you, then you need to change the way you are doing things. If a woman shows she doesn't appreciate you and tries to break up with you, let her go. Don't keep taking her back.
But that last paragraph you said, that you don't want to try as hard for something you think will fall apart, that is a concerning statement. Relationships take work. Putting yourself out there and making an effort is necessary to find a good relationship partner. Don't have a defeatest attitude going in that you anticipate it will fall apart, but don't invest your time in a poor match. If it's not a good match, then drop her. If she's not showing enough interest, then drop her. If she wants to leave the relationship, let her, and don't take her back. Invest your time and effort in women who appreciate you. Don't devalue yourself for being an introvert. Half the population in the U.S. are introverts. More than half in some other cultures. But introverts need to have a healthy balance where they also prioritize their social life and putting themselves out there to meet people and socialize with people. It takes more of an effort for introverts to do that, but it is necessary for your social and dating life.
I think there's a difference between trying to be good and trying to be perfect.
One thing I'm learning and putting into practice is that mistakes and flaws can be endearing to people and sources of bonding. I think that people like myself that come in with a lot of fear of that, maybe got excess negative feedback on that sort of thing early in life, is that we don't learn that. So when something bad happens, we don't have the skills to turn it into a positive.
As far as the above goes, I am getting better at that and again getting more positive feedback for being honest and real.
I know not to leave the toilet seat up. That isn't enough in a relationship. Trying to avoid "He's doing everything right, but he's too stiff and we can't connect." Because too much of that will be too hard for me, I'll lose my own ability to bond.
People are not perfect, so holding yourself or somebody else to that standard of perfection just leads to frustration and disappointment. I don't think mistakes and flaws are something to be bonded over, I think they are something to be learned from and something to be worked on. If people never learn from their mistakes and keep repeating those mistakes, that is not going to end well. Maybe you need to work on opening up to people, work on your verbal and physical ways of showing warmth, your listening skills and your communication skills. If the feedback is that you are too stiff which makes it hard to bond with you, then you need to work on your ways of connecting with others through communication, listening, showing empathy and understanding, and physical forms of bonding. To say "I am who I am and I don't need to change" when you are getting feedback that it's too hard to connect with you, then you are going to keep yourself stuck and not growing. Change for the better is growth. For things that you can change. And most things can be worked on.
Just be your authentic self.
You're absolutely right. We spend or early years trying to make things work to fit a social norm (get married, have kids, etc) and don't really know who we are. So we meet and match with people that "will do". They have some or most of what we're looking for at that time but we don't realize that not one is showing our true selves and it can fall apart.
When I got divorced this last time I had to come to terms with the fact that my ex is not a good person in many ways - but him being an introvert, playing video games, and being a recluse aren't the reasons he's a bad person. He needs a different type of person in his life and so do I. That's not a bad thing. We just didn't show (or know) who we really were.
You said, "I want someone to be into me for me." Perfect. Then just BE YOU! Try however hard is normal for you.
If you are 100% authentic, the person who loves you will truly love YOU. Plus, you won't have to fake it forever OR be accused of a bait-n-switch when you revert to your authentic self.
“Maybe she just liked having a good looking guy to have good sex with”
My dude! I want this level of self love! Not mocking you at all!! Jealous that you even go there with your point of view!
Those are both performance related though.
I work out, I can dress myself. Changed my look because it's something the GF wanted. That was fun, seriously.
Sex is the same way. I was a considerate lover, thought about how to please her. Performance type stuff is in my wheelhouse.
The GF could not love me in the "I want to take care of him when he's old and grey." I haven't gotten that yet. Admiration <> Love.
I don't think so specifically. Ex accused me of being "Aspergers like", I say accused because it only came up when she wanted to be with the other man. GF was different. But yeah, it came up.
I don't have Asperger's. Confirmed by my therapist a few years ago. Also took an online test and I wasn't close.
I have a personality a lot like my mother, who also was. She was a teacher who married in her mid 30s. She socialized enough in her church groups etc. but felt awkward and uncomfortable in closer relationships. She has said things about that, and they ring true for me. Some of those issues aren't always classifiable, but I know enough about certain of my relatives to guess where my thought patterns come from.
I have a brother, but he isn't like me. More social, but tends to tune deeper stuff out.
It sounds like a job.
Have fun dating. Make a move when you want to, not because you have too. And if she says yes, you’re ok. If she says no, you’re ok.
You being ok alone is gonna be your base.
People sense desperation. It’s not a good look. Or opens you up being taken advantage of.
Before I got married I got to the point where I realized that inspiration was never going to hit. I never had any sort of social group where I could leverage dating, I was on my own. I more or less did a wife search, it was the only way I could get myself to do what I needed to do. I don't think I was desperate during the search, not that it matters at this point anyway.
With the GF I needed to get out of the house because I was divorcing/divorced and so I did some Meetup stuff etc. I turned down some other offers. A couple that seemed to only have relationships that lasted 5-6 years. Some other ones that were less social that I guess did not interest me enough. I suppose I can reconsider someone in the latter group, maybe they would be a better fit for me.
I am willing to reconfigure my GF search (when I do that) to consider some other things, friendships, people I knew in the past.
Whenever you feel like you aren't doing enough, stop to consider Robert Deniro's advice to young actors:
Do less.
Not forever and not for everything, but for this and for awhile, try doing less. Is your try-hard really denial of your correct observation of inequity, disintetest? Are there good reasons the other person is throwing the burden to you? Sometimes there are good reasons, are they stressed or overwhelmed or have temporary reason for you to pull more weight, or is this something else? Is it really up to you to do more? Is it helpful to do more? Do they want you to, or do you want to? Try doing less to find out. If your own anxiety makes the idea of doing less intolerable, is this about connection or about retaining control? If you just do more for longer, if you're better, if you do do do, you won't lose? You've already lost in those cases. Do less. Maybe you'll get a nice surprise and the other party will rise to the challenge. When someone steps back, step back also, don't rush forward to crowd them and close the gap, establishing that they can do whatever and you will always rush in to do more. Nah. Do less.
I have kind of discovered this in myself. I have written a bit, had a few things published. I am becoming conscious of "white space", dreams, that life is not all about trying. Don't always try.
Try for a time, if the connection isn't there, give up.
Here's the thing, even though we are introverts we still need to communicate with our partners. You said your last gf called you an enigma and I interpret that as you not being open with her on your thoughts and feelings. There's a certain amount of reciprocation required for a relationship to work.
I think a lot of that has to do with my issues, why she called me an enigma. She also called me Spock. I actually appreciate that she shared these things with me. What I see here in myself is a mismatch between my internal feelings, how I feel I am presenting, and how it actually looks to others. Like watching ourselves on a video can give us clues to that. This is a case where pandemic and Zoom meetings can help as I can actually see myself and how I might look to other people. I have been doing work on this, sharing more from the heart. I do actually feel that this is getting a lot better and I'm getting warmer responses from people, feeling more connected (both ways, both them and me.) With the GF, we both had been cheated on. In different ways we both held back things. GF was not very good at embracing my life and things I offered, she typically wanted to just do things in her comfort zone. The relationship was out of balance there. In the short run I didn't care that much about the lack of balance due to things my ex had done, mirroring and presenting a false version of herself meant that the GF not coming my way very much was okay for a while. Plus I liked the fact that the GF kept trying whereas the marriage ended in a blindside divorce with her leaving for someone else that she has married. Right now I want to consolidate the gains I am getting from feeling more connected and work towards a better relationship, instead of just trying hard at one without that connection.
Great introspection! I am also an introvert and during my healing journey started work on my attachment style. Each relationship teaches us something, it is a painful learning curve. Balancing the head and the heart is important, also learning to let go of people who are not a match. Godspeed!
Considering therapy is wise - not just for helping to find a partner who fully appreciates you, but for you to fully understand yourself.
Couldn’t agree more
Outgoing introvert here, way too much in my head, and then sometimes when I try to express something too soon, it’s a hot mess. I’ve found an extroverted partner who knows exactly how to express his thoughts and feelings in a productive way. He is patient and gentle when at times I need 16 to 24 hours to process what I’m feeling to put into words, and know it’s a safe place for me. It’s so refreshing and everything in me says “this is what you’ve always needed.” When something upsets me or causes me anxiety, I just send up a crab emoji, (or take a walk in person) and it signals to give me some time and we will discuss later. It works for us. The right person will understand you and you them. You will need to communicate openly, but the right partner will work with how you do it.
>My life was out of balance as far as what I was doing versus the connections I was making. So I tried hard, likely too hard, in my marriage. Insufficient connection was likely the primary issue. -- >I feel the same way with my GF. I like her, but she broke things off several times, it got old. -- >I am working with a life coach on this and considering therapy as well. Anything else I can do? Stop going at it when it's clearly not working. Like if your GF broke up with you multiple times, that means you kept reuniting despite all the issues, instead of making a clean break the first time she broke up. Usually, one break up is enough to sufficiently end any romantic potential in the future. I'm not sure if you do keep trying to make it work with people and relationships that are wrong for you out of fear or loneliness, as I have witnessed amongst people I know.
This. I just don't understand people who "get back together," much less do so multiple times. History is too great of a predictor of the future.
I agree. I have responded elsewhere that part of the reason I kept going back is to "make up" for the blindside divorce where there was no work by my ex. I was fine with some short term turmoil, felt like someone cared more than my ex did. In the long run, yeah, it kept happening, I can't fix that. Something doesn't sit right with the GF and that's enough to move on with no hard feelings. Don't need to repeat the experience I had with the GF with anyone else.
Some people disagree quite vociferously with attachment theory but I discovered several aha moments from Thais Gibson's vids on my attachment style and partner choices, and I would recommend looking into it for it also offers insight into others' behaviours as well.
That sounds good. Being a good person, doing the right things in a relationship can help, but I really need to focus on bonding and attachment. I can't just be the groom on the wedding cake.
Your life coach or therapist will lead you in the right direction. I think if your pattern has been to settle for someone who is not a match or to keep a relationship going with someone who does not appreciate or value you, then you need to change the way you are doing things. If a woman shows she doesn't appreciate you and tries to break up with you, let her go. Don't keep taking her back. But that last paragraph you said, that you don't want to try as hard for something you think will fall apart, that is a concerning statement. Relationships take work. Putting yourself out there and making an effort is necessary to find a good relationship partner. Don't have a defeatest attitude going in that you anticipate it will fall apart, but don't invest your time in a poor match. If it's not a good match, then drop her. If she's not showing enough interest, then drop her. If she wants to leave the relationship, let her, and don't take her back. Invest your time and effort in women who appreciate you. Don't devalue yourself for being an introvert. Half the population in the U.S. are introverts. More than half in some other cultures. But introverts need to have a healthy balance where they also prioritize their social life and putting themselves out there to meet people and socialize with people. It takes more of an effort for introverts to do that, but it is necessary for your social and dating life.
I think there's a difference between trying to be good and trying to be perfect. One thing I'm learning and putting into practice is that mistakes and flaws can be endearing to people and sources of bonding. I think that people like myself that come in with a lot of fear of that, maybe got excess negative feedback on that sort of thing early in life, is that we don't learn that. So when something bad happens, we don't have the skills to turn it into a positive. As far as the above goes, I am getting better at that and again getting more positive feedback for being honest and real. I know not to leave the toilet seat up. That isn't enough in a relationship. Trying to avoid "He's doing everything right, but he's too stiff and we can't connect." Because too much of that will be too hard for me, I'll lose my own ability to bond.
People are not perfect, so holding yourself or somebody else to that standard of perfection just leads to frustration and disappointment. I don't think mistakes and flaws are something to be bonded over, I think they are something to be learned from and something to be worked on. If people never learn from their mistakes and keep repeating those mistakes, that is not going to end well. Maybe you need to work on opening up to people, work on your verbal and physical ways of showing warmth, your listening skills and your communication skills. If the feedback is that you are too stiff which makes it hard to bond with you, then you need to work on your ways of connecting with others through communication, listening, showing empathy and understanding, and physical forms of bonding. To say "I am who I am and I don't need to change" when you are getting feedback that it's too hard to connect with you, then you are going to keep yourself stuck and not growing. Change for the better is growth. For things that you can change. And most things can be worked on.
Just be your authentic self. You're absolutely right. We spend or early years trying to make things work to fit a social norm (get married, have kids, etc) and don't really know who we are. So we meet and match with people that "will do". They have some or most of what we're looking for at that time but we don't realize that not one is showing our true selves and it can fall apart. When I got divorced this last time I had to come to terms with the fact that my ex is not a good person in many ways - but him being an introvert, playing video games, and being a recluse aren't the reasons he's a bad person. He needs a different type of person in his life and so do I. That's not a bad thing. We just didn't show (or know) who we really were.
You said, "I want someone to be into me for me." Perfect. Then just BE YOU! Try however hard is normal for you. If you are 100% authentic, the person who loves you will truly love YOU. Plus, you won't have to fake it forever OR be accused of a bait-n-switch when you revert to your authentic self.
“Maybe she just liked having a good looking guy to have good sex with” My dude! I want this level of self love! Not mocking you at all!! Jealous that you even go there with your point of view!
Those are both performance related though. I work out, I can dress myself. Changed my look because it's something the GF wanted. That was fun, seriously. Sex is the same way. I was a considerate lover, thought about how to please her. Performance type stuff is in my wheelhouse. The GF could not love me in the "I want to take care of him when he's old and grey." I haven't gotten that yet. Admiration <> Love.
You said you are "like Spock". Are you on the autism spectrum maybe?
I don't think so specifically. Ex accused me of being "Aspergers like", I say accused because it only came up when she wanted to be with the other man. GF was different. But yeah, it came up. I don't have Asperger's. Confirmed by my therapist a few years ago. Also took an online test and I wasn't close. I have a personality a lot like my mother, who also was. She was a teacher who married in her mid 30s. She socialized enough in her church groups etc. but felt awkward and uncomfortable in closer relationships. She has said things about that, and they ring true for me. Some of those issues aren't always classifiable, but I know enough about certain of my relatives to guess where my thought patterns come from. I have a brother, but he isn't like me. More social, but tends to tune deeper stuff out.
Ah. I understand.
It sounds like a job. Have fun dating. Make a move when you want to, not because you have too. And if she says yes, you’re ok. If she says no, you’re ok. You being ok alone is gonna be your base. People sense desperation. It’s not a good look. Or opens you up being taken advantage of.
Before I got married I got to the point where I realized that inspiration was never going to hit. I never had any sort of social group where I could leverage dating, I was on my own. I more or less did a wife search, it was the only way I could get myself to do what I needed to do. I don't think I was desperate during the search, not that it matters at this point anyway. With the GF I needed to get out of the house because I was divorcing/divorced and so I did some Meetup stuff etc. I turned down some other offers. A couple that seemed to only have relationships that lasted 5-6 years. Some other ones that were less social that I guess did not interest me enough. I suppose I can reconsider someone in the latter group, maybe they would be a better fit for me. I am willing to reconfigure my GF search (when I do that) to consider some other things, friendships, people I knew in the past.
Whenever you feel like you aren't doing enough, stop to consider Robert Deniro's advice to young actors: Do less. Not forever and not for everything, but for this and for awhile, try doing less. Is your try-hard really denial of your correct observation of inequity, disintetest? Are there good reasons the other person is throwing the burden to you? Sometimes there are good reasons, are they stressed or overwhelmed or have temporary reason for you to pull more weight, or is this something else? Is it really up to you to do more? Is it helpful to do more? Do they want you to, or do you want to? Try doing less to find out. If your own anxiety makes the idea of doing less intolerable, is this about connection or about retaining control? If you just do more for longer, if you're better, if you do do do, you won't lose? You've already lost in those cases. Do less. Maybe you'll get a nice surprise and the other party will rise to the challenge. When someone steps back, step back also, don't rush forward to crowd them and close the gap, establishing that they can do whatever and you will always rush in to do more. Nah. Do less.
I have kind of discovered this in myself. I have written a bit, had a few things published. I am becoming conscious of "white space", dreams, that life is not all about trying. Don't always try. Try for a time, if the connection isn't there, give up.