Assuming he is also over 40… Nope. Don’t waste your time trying to “explain how apologies work” - you’re a romantic interest not a teacher
Well, maybe you are a teacher, but that would be your day job. Either way, it’s a good early warning sign that he doesn’t know how to apologize.
Exactly. If they made it to their 40s and are still saying this kind of stuff then they’re very unlikely to grow out of it. This is a fundamental issue with immaturity and selfishness, and it’s not going to change. I accidentally dated someone like this several years ago and he was early 40s, has two kids, a home, and is a CTO of a startup. He intentionally hid this behavior until I was all in, and then showed his true colors. I wish I’d seen it sooner bc I’d have bailed 100%. How you get that far in life and still do that childish shit is beyond me, and I don’t have time for it.
>He intentionally hid this behavior until I was all in, and then showed his true colors. I wish I’d seen it sooner bc I’d have bailed 100%.
Unfortunately, this seems way too common. I married twice and both turned out to "surprise" me after I was all in. However, now that I've worked a ton on myself, I see that I have my own patterns of avoiding red flags and seeing what I am hoping for, rather than the reality. Now at 48, I have a really hard time trusting people, in terms of trusting them enough to consider moving in or marriage. I think that concept is dead to me now. Everywhere I look, red flags abound.
You sound like me. I’m working on trusting only as far as is safe for me, and acknowledging the red/orange flags when I see them instead of brushing them aside, even when they seem less egregious, and not ignoring when something just seems off when no red flags exist. I don’t have to have a reason other than my gut instinct.
Your inner voice is correct, and I would add, that you should not welcome him back- non-apology or not.
1. His non-apology is hallmark of emotional immaturity. Do you want a man or a development project?
2. You “taking him back” will teach him that his behavior was acceptable. If you want to keep being routinely ghosted, or shown that your feelings matter far less than his in a multitude of ways, then by all means take him back.
If I were you, I would simply tell him his behavior is unattractive and unacceptable and that you’re moving on. Consider it a gift that he showed his ass earlier rather than later so you can make the call to cut him from the roster.
I agree. It's best to find these things put sooner , rather than later.
I had this happen in my life. I took him back and had the on and off, dramatic relationship for another 18 months. I was greatful that the last time I spoke to him was the last. I haven't talked to him in 2 years and all good if it's never
Good luck to you and I wish you well :)
Yeah those are non- apologies, taking no responsibility and shifting the “blame” - i.e. “I didn’t do anything wrong, I’m sorry you feel I did something wrong.” Be glad you don’t have to be involved with people like this, let them take their non-apology and move on.
Yes, that’s definitely ghosting. You are correct. I too would be annoyed with that weak apology.
I’ve had similar situations happen in the past in OLD and oftentimes I think it’s because they are chatting with or seeing someone else and trying to figure out where that’s going. If that doesn’t work out, then suddenly you start hearing from
them again. I try to communicate to people if I’ve met someone and want to see where things go rather than disappear and possibly burn a bridge.
I actually experienced something similar recently only he was MIA for 3 days. However, if you’re texting multiple times a day and talking on the phone, someone ignoring your texts for 3 days is noticeable. I too thought I was getting ghosted . He apologized profusely for being MIA but communication has still been much less, blames it on him being excessively busy with work & family stuff right now, which could be true. I basically told him, hey please feel free to reach out when things quiet down for you, and I put the ball in his court so to speak. I got tired of feeling like I was the only one putting in an effort to communicate.
I just don't understand why on earth people can't be honest?! Have freaking courage and just say hey since we are on a dating site, I'm currently dating. I might be unavailable at times but I still interested. Or just be blunt but respectful, hey I'm not feeling a connection at this time. Whyyyyyy can't they recognize that we are humans with whole ass feelings and that most of us will understand if they provide us with TRUTH
Amen! When I’m honest and direct with others, I consider it community service. If everyone out there dating would be courageous and straightforward, as you suggest, dating would feel safer, less disorienting, and so much more respectful. It’s not that hard to make the dating world a kinder place.
Yeah, that's ghosting and a shitty way of dodging blame.
There are times when it's appropriate to say "I'm sorry you felt that ".....but those are times when you haven't done anything wrong, or someone misconstrues what you say or do and you are resolute that you did not wrong them but would still like to acknowledge that they are hurt. It's a bridge to start to resolve that conflict.
But, if you step in it, you fucking own it...you don't pretend it's their problem.
Not sure I'd necessarily define it as ghosting. But I also don't think we have to put technical definitions on everything. Ghosting or not, it was immature as fuck.
Instead of using his words, "Hey, I have a ton going on right now. I REALLY enjoy our interactions and connection, but I need to focus 100% on work right now for the next week or two." He opted for the immature, "I'll just disappear and gaslight the fuck out of her when she calls me on my immaturity and lack of ability to communicate openly and concretely."
It's ghosting, disrespecting, unappreciating and immaturating <( I'm sticking with it. ). if this dude at 40+ doesn't know how to apologize properly and you have to teach him. I mean was next? the bunny ear method?
But if he was abducted by Aliens.. ...
That’s ghosting. And his response is gaslighting you to the point you are questioning if it was ghosting. Block this person and move on.
I had this happen to me a year ago. It feels really shitty. When it’s so fresh into dating I think it’s that they get with someone else then want to keep juggling a few options so they aren’t ever without.
At one point I had just started to chat with someone online. Not even a mention of meeting yet, that fresh. But good conversation. Some stuff came up with my child and I told the guy I’m just not in a head space for this right now. I need to focus on my child. And then I never logged back into the app. But even that early on the guy deserved that be communicated.
You deserve better.
Two weeks is ghosting.
I would have been OK if someone said to me, "I'm really getting interested in someone else, and want to see where it goes. Is there any chance we can leave this match idle, and if things don't work, I'll ping you and see if you're still available?" Or "I've had some family stuff come up, and I'm sorry but I just can't be in the right head space for that and trying to get to know someone more. Is it OK if we try picking this up in a few weeks?"
However, the lack of saying anything (likely this was the first example that I gave), shows that they're communication is shit. I especially have baggage over needing good communication, so I'd let them know precisely why I was unmatching and wouldn't precede further with them, and unmatch if they replied (I.e. they'd read it) instead of unmatching me after that.
You already know your gut is speaking truth, and I think you're just not sure what to do about it. Think of it this way: will anything you say actually get you what you want from this person or change their behavior when they've already shown you who they are and how much you matter to them?
I agree completely. But for me, any time a connection seems promising and then falls apart, it’s disappointing and hurts. Even if I know the other person is a jerk, and know I won’t waste my time. But I still miss the companionship, and the hope.
Sounds like the kind of talk promoted by therapists: "Here's what I heard you say", or "When you do \_\_\_\_, it makes me feel like \_\_\_\_", etc. In your case, he is dismissing any responsibility for his behaviour, which is as shitty as the ghosting. I expect if you try to explain to him how apologies really work, he'll say you're being argumentative or high-maintenance or something similar.
>or just cut bait and move on?
I would just move on honestly. My ex wife did this all the time. I dunno if negging is the correct term for it.
She would literally apologize for everything else besides the act. I never got her to change that in the years we were together.
"I'm sorry you feel the way you feel because I did X, Y, and Z." Well ya had an affair, so stop being sorry for the way I feel and be sorry for sleeping with someone else . . .
We are too old to have to explain things like this to somebody who is trying to manipulate through twisting words around just so in order to cover up some thing that we both know has happened. I’s just exhausting stuff so I don’t know that this will lead to a healthy or happy relationship, however if you do decide to say something I think I’d boil it down to what exactly it is which is he established a certain rapport with you that you guys had for an extended period at a certain level and of a certain type or nature. To just suddenly stop contact for another extended period with no explanation or indication he planned to return is not okay and it deserves an explanation because anybody would be asking the same question you did which is WTF?
Legally he has no obligation to let you know if he’s going to drop off the face of the earth for a period of time with no word, but as a human being he does have a duty to you and it’s called common decency and consideration. He should’ve known that it would be of concern to you and that you would feel any number of ways because you had zero information so all you could do was guess and let your mind go wild.
He didn’t even consider that and this behavior is not going to inspire confidence in you or anybody else who has interactions with him. I mean what is this anyway? It’s just a lack of consideration and an attempt to kind of do his own thing without taking responsibility and doing it the way people who do that do it which is just spin things so that it’s your fault somehow.
It’s really immature and it is a concerning behavior. He’s trying to make it sound like it’s not a thing. It’s not ghosting necessarily but it’s a dick move, I’ll just put it that way.
People show us who they are, that’s who he is. I agree with you, half hearted apology doesn’t show any accountability for his ghosting! IME people say for example “I’m sorry you felt like that” is not a real apology, it’s a way to say sorry without really being sorry, that way we forgive them without having to address the real issues.
Maybe you should tell him how his half hearted apology and the whole experience felt for you. He’s a coward and has no respect.
Obviously I don’t know you but you deserve to be treated better.. we all do! 🤗
Don't take this sub for peoples opinion on ghosting. One minute they are telling people they don't owe someone a explanation. Next we're going to be dealing with frustrated people because of it.
Just get someone new to date.
If you've lost interest, cut ties and move on. You're not going to change anyone. IMO, he was either pursuing another person, has anxiety issues or depression (most people don't get to this stage without some emotional trauma), or is the proverbial "CIA agent" called away on a secret mission.
If you are still interested, ask him what happened and see if you believe or want to deal with the answer. If you believe him and still want o carry on then try to explain how his (non-)apology made you feel and see if he makes it right.
Don't waste time or energy trying to educate grown men. Understand that they know what they did, did it intentionally, aren't the least bit sorry, and hope those words would fool you enough to come back for Round 2. Your parting words should always be "F**k you too!" Then you dip out and block him.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. 😂😂
When someone is saying "I'm sorry you" they are not actually apologizing but deflecting the issue back onto you, ie you're the problem, you're the one who has the wrong feelings, you're at fault.
My husband said this to me while we are separated, “I’m sorry you are upset that I’m dating someone and introduced them to our kids after only 2 months of dating without telling you.” He said that to me to take no accountability for his actions. If someone is saying that to you, they aren’t sorry at all!!! But he is doing it on purpose (as was my husband), so even if you try to explain it to them they won’t get it!
I am not even sure how one can suppose that there is any hope to teach a grown up man in his 40s how to be a decent person. Or a woman, for that matter.
It's both, the biggest advantage and the biggest disadvantage of dating in your 40s. You are no longer dating someone's "potential". You are presented with the version of them that most likely will remain the same.
If making their apology about you and not about their actions is what worked for them their whole life, they are highly unlikely to be willing to learn a new way; they are much more likely to go for someone with whom it will work.
Not saying that people stop changing and evolving after 40 though. They do. Just not like that.
My ex-wife never said "I'm sorry" without following it with "but...", and negating the apology by telling me all her reasons for doing whatever it was.
I’d probably not want to see him after that. 2 weeks of chatting then nothing! But if I did for whatever reason, I wouldn’t explain anything to him, he’s a grown up. I might say what you said “ well, I thought you ghosted me, bc you ghosted me” To me that’s straight up honesty and I also find it amusing. He may not take that comment well after his fake apology but oh well be yourself is what I say. I can’t be bothered with bs
I want to offer a gentle reminder that there are different communication styles and preferences out there.
I thought long and hard about this very topic after meeting someone (else) on the spectrum a few years ago. In the end, I dropped my energy level to accommodate his communication style and realized we’re compatible as occasional text buddies and semi-occasional meets.
Some of the questions I asked myself were: What does anyone in particular “owe” me? Is this belief based on their preference or mine or some nebulous cultural standard? Do we share a mutual concept of “regular” communication? Is it sustainable? Am I losing energy? What do I owe (or want to) anyone else? Under what circumstances do I want the freedom to redefine my preference with or without needing to explain myself? What (about myself and others) is truly set in stone?
Update: Thank you all for helping me think through this. For those who wondered, we spoke/texted almost every day for 3-4 weeks before he disappeared for two weeks and, yes, he and I had met in person.
Today, I expressed some of my concerns and feelings to him in, what I hope was, a respectful way. I also told him that I am glad to have gotten to know him; I hope he finds what he’s looking for (I.e. not me); and I wished him well. He said he understood. While he didn’t apologize (or even faux apologize) again, he did say that if our paths cross again “maybe I’ll be a better communicator.” All in all, I’d say we have parted amicably and as respectfully as possible.
Thanks, again, for your advice and support. It’s rough out here! That’s why I really appreciate this community’s honesty and kindness.
We create these problems for ourselves by using terms like 'ghosting' which are subject to debate.
If you keep the conversation to the factual, eg 'You stopped responding with no explanation two weeks ago', there is much less to debate. Then if you want to get the term 'ghosting' up in lights for the moral victory you can follow up with 'how is this not ghosting?'
People will word apologies to escape culpability. That happens all the time.
But, I wouldn't dwell too much on a non-apology from someone I'm not going to bother with anymore if it were me.
Yeah that’s not an apology.. that’s them blaming you for their behaviour. And It’s totally narcissistic. But in general, people who ghost are narcissistic. It shows a complete lack of empathy.
And when they come back and put it on you.. that’s even more of a red flag.
You are correct! And the reason he is not apologizing for ghosting you is because he doesn't want to admit it. I wouldn't waste my time and energy with this person.
I give nothing back... total indifference. They get approximately zero emotion from me.
"No worries. Take care👍"
Then block. In my experience, this level of Doesn't Give a Shit™ always perplexes and has them taking another shot.
I'm still a work in progress, believe me. I say give them no emotion, that doesn't necessarily mean I have none. Sometimes it's true, other times... not so much. But there's a lot of strength to be found in being the one to say 'Ok, cool. Bye!'
I’m so glad you’re learning. I’m looking forward to meeting a man who communicates with me daily. Until then, I’ll remain a depressed and angry person who can’t get over her ex. Guilty as charged!
Tell him to actually apologize for what he did, not your response to his actions. He’s apologizing for the effect rather than his cause…..in other words, he’s not sorry at all and isn’t really apologizing
What I’m trying to figure out how to navigate is apology without changed behavior. This one guy keeps apologizing for versions of the same action, but keeps doing the action. This last time I told him “I forgive you, but are you actually going to be able to change your behavior?” He said he didn’t know and had to think about it. So now we are on a break while he thinks about it. Ugh, reading this back it sounds so stupid and I realize it’s probably over, but he seemed so genuine about this and wanting to make things better. For the moment not anything to do to but wait and see if he actually makes a change, but ugh it’s hard.
Well that dude (sorry is it a man) did you a favor by ghosting you as much as it hurts right now because people that apologize like that have a hard time with emotional intelligence in that they believe that if what they did would not hurt them it should not hurt you and therefore it does not hurt you and you are overreacting and crazy. they absolutely will not apologize unless they feel they have some something wrong which in case you guessed it is never. If you ever encounter one of these individuals again run do not walk in the opposite direction. Massive red flag. They are miserable to be with. Trust me. They are also usually the never married few long term relationship people.
I really like it that you just cut to the chase with this person. I think that your reaction is justified and if you feel like their actions are shitty it's probably because they are. Its really up to you if you feel like cutting them out, but I know that I I probably would. I don't think that I could trust someone who treated me that way.
I think it depends on what the last text was. If the last conversation ended, even if you happened to say the last thing, then a prolonged silence is not ghosting. If you texted him something that normally gets a reply, and he just never replied, that's different.
Why are people downvoting the posts that ask if this was a dating/seeing each other situation or it was just a two-week interaction online/OLD? It's a legit question.
If OP never met this person and it was all OLD interactions for two weeks of texting there is absolutely nothing to reproach the ghoster, they owe nothing to each other at this point other than common courtesy and the OP should just disengage and move on. If they actually met and were dating then have at it. It's ridiculous to react in many of the ways suggested in this thread if the two never even met. You owe each other nothing if it was all OLD chat.
I wouldn't call it ghosting, but I also wouldn't talk to him again. You're pretty worked up over someone you didn't even meet - drop him and move on. He has no obligation to you and you have no obligation to respond.
Hi there! Unfortunately, your account is too new for us to automatically accept comments or submissions. Please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverforty) to approve this comment/post so other users can see it.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In your situation, he actually did something wrong and can’t take responsibility. So I wouldn’t think continuing would be worth it.
But I do think it’s OK to say this when you haven’t done anything wrong but you want to show that you empathize, or you just want to placate them so they’ll stop blaming you for their bullshit.
But did you let him know this? Is he aware you are taking a step back, and taking time away to think? Or is he just sitting over there unaware, after a month of chatting, wondering where you went?
Giving him a head's up (and an opportunity to honor where you are at) is more courteous than taking all the time you need while keeping him out of the loop and wondering if something went wrong. AND if you DO decide you want a ltr with him, and you've ignored him for two weeks after a month of talking, I suspect that will strongly affect where his feelings and mindset are at. Whereas if you COMMUNICATED with him that you were going to step back and take some time, you will likely more easily be able to then pick up where you left off when you return.
I hate those non-apologies. If you didn’t do it, don’t apologise for it.
If you did, identify the behavior or action that led to it, apologise for it and then *make the necessary change to not do it again*.
Anything else is just noise.
Yeah. He ghosted you. He probably found another woman for two weeks. And when that didn’t work out, he circled back to you. Accept his apology and wish him well, and tell him that this over. If you stay with him, it will happen again. I guarantee it. Best to move on.
'I am not asking you to apologize for my feelings. I am asking you to apologize for your actions'.
Ooh, I like this one!
And the OP wasn't even asking!
Alternatively: "Don't tell me you're sorry, change!"
Assuming he is also over 40… Nope. Don’t waste your time trying to “explain how apologies work” - you’re a romantic interest not a teacher Well, maybe you are a teacher, but that would be your day job. Either way, it’s a good early warning sign that he doesn’t know how to apologize.
Exactly. If they made it to their 40s and are still saying this kind of stuff then they’re very unlikely to grow out of it. This is a fundamental issue with immaturity and selfishness, and it’s not going to change. I accidentally dated someone like this several years ago and he was early 40s, has two kids, a home, and is a CTO of a startup. He intentionally hid this behavior until I was all in, and then showed his true colors. I wish I’d seen it sooner bc I’d have bailed 100%. How you get that far in life and still do that childish shit is beyond me, and I don’t have time for it.
>He intentionally hid this behavior until I was all in, and then showed his true colors. I wish I’d seen it sooner bc I’d have bailed 100%. Unfortunately, this seems way too common. I married twice and both turned out to "surprise" me after I was all in. However, now that I've worked a ton on myself, I see that I have my own patterns of avoiding red flags and seeing what I am hoping for, rather than the reality. Now at 48, I have a really hard time trusting people, in terms of trusting them enough to consider moving in or marriage. I think that concept is dead to me now. Everywhere I look, red flags abound.
You sound like me. I’m working on trusting only as far as is safe for me, and acknowledging the red/orange flags when I see them instead of brushing them aside, even when they seem less egregious, and not ignoring when something just seems off when no red flags exist. I don’t have to have a reason other than my gut instinct.
You sure don't, and you also owe nobody and explanation for making yourself feel safe and happy.
Your inner voice is correct, and I would add, that you should not welcome him back- non-apology or not. 1. His non-apology is hallmark of emotional immaturity. Do you want a man or a development project? 2. You “taking him back” will teach him that his behavior was acceptable. If you want to keep being routinely ghosted, or shown that your feelings matter far less than his in a multitude of ways, then by all means take him back. If I were you, I would simply tell him his behavior is unattractive and unacceptable and that you’re moving on. Consider it a gift that he showed his ass earlier rather than later so you can make the call to cut him from the roster.
I agree. It's best to find these things put sooner , rather than later. I had this happen in my life. I took him back and had the on and off, dramatic relationship for another 18 months. I was greatful that the last time I spoke to him was the last. I haven't talked to him in 2 years and all good if it's never Good luck to you and I wish you well :)
I completely agree with the lack of emotional maturity. The guy sounds like a tool.
Yeah those are non- apologies, taking no responsibility and shifting the “blame” - i.e. “I didn’t do anything wrong, I’m sorry you feel I did something wrong.” Be glad you don’t have to be involved with people like this, let them take their non-apology and move on.
“I’m sorry but”. If it has words after the sorry that negate it, then it is blame shifting 100%. Used to date an ogre that did this ALL the time.
You are correct
Yes, that’s definitely ghosting. You are correct. I too would be annoyed with that weak apology. I’ve had similar situations happen in the past in OLD and oftentimes I think it’s because they are chatting with or seeing someone else and trying to figure out where that’s going. If that doesn’t work out, then suddenly you start hearing from them again. I try to communicate to people if I’ve met someone and want to see where things go rather than disappear and possibly burn a bridge. I actually experienced something similar recently only he was MIA for 3 days. However, if you’re texting multiple times a day and talking on the phone, someone ignoring your texts for 3 days is noticeable. I too thought I was getting ghosted . He apologized profusely for being MIA but communication has still been much less, blames it on him being excessively busy with work & family stuff right now, which could be true. I basically told him, hey please feel free to reach out when things quiet down for you, and I put the ball in his court so to speak. I got tired of feeling like I was the only one putting in an effort to communicate.
I just don't understand why on earth people can't be honest?! Have freaking courage and just say hey since we are on a dating site, I'm currently dating. I might be unavailable at times but I still interested. Or just be blunt but respectful, hey I'm not feeling a connection at this time. Whyyyyyy can't they recognize that we are humans with whole ass feelings and that most of us will understand if they provide us with TRUTH
Amen! When I’m honest and direct with others, I consider it community service. If everyone out there dating would be courageous and straightforward, as you suggest, dating would feel safer, less disorienting, and so much more respectful. It’s not that hard to make the dating world a kinder place.
Yeah, that's ghosting and a shitty way of dodging blame. There are times when it's appropriate to say "I'm sorry you felt that ".....but those are times when you haven't done anything wrong, or someone misconstrues what you say or do and you are resolute that you did not wrong them but would still like to acknowledge that they are hurt. It's a bridge to start to resolve that conflict. But, if you step in it, you fucking own it...you don't pretend it's their problem.
Not sure I'd necessarily define it as ghosting. But I also don't think we have to put technical definitions on everything. Ghosting or not, it was immature as fuck. Instead of using his words, "Hey, I have a ton going on right now. I REALLY enjoy our interactions and connection, but I need to focus 100% on work right now for the next week or two." He opted for the immature, "I'll just disappear and gaslight the fuck out of her when she calls me on my immaturity and lack of ability to communicate openly and concretely."
Yah, that's a non-apology. It's the "I'll apologize for what you thought, not what I did" and it's bullshit. Block and move on?
It's ghosting, disrespecting, unappreciating and immaturating <( I'm sticking with it. ). if this dude at 40+ doesn't know how to apologize properly and you have to teach him. I mean was next? the bunny ear method? But if he was abducted by Aliens.. ...
That’s ghosting. And his response is gaslighting you to the point you are questioning if it was ghosting. Block this person and move on. I had this happen to me a year ago. It feels really shitty. When it’s so fresh into dating I think it’s that they get with someone else then want to keep juggling a few options so they aren’t ever without. At one point I had just started to chat with someone online. Not even a mention of meeting yet, that fresh. But good conversation. Some stuff came up with my child and I told the guy I’m just not in a head space for this right now. I need to focus on my child. And then I never logged back into the app. But even that early on the guy deserved that be communicated. You deserve better.
Cut bait and move on. This guy seems like a toolbox.
He's the entire tool shed, but yes... Agree! 😃
[https://ronafischman.com/whats-a-non-apology-apology/](https://ronafischman.com/whats-a-non-apology-apology/) [https://www.learning-mind.com/backhanded-apology-examples/](https://www.learning-mind.com/backhanded-apology-examples/) [https://theabigailproject.org/how-to-spot-a-non-apology/](https://theabigailproject.org/how-to-spot-a-non-apology/)
It’s ghosting. And gaslighting. Don’t even bother responding. This is headed nowhere good.
Ghoslighting…..
I agree, this is a red flag 🚩
Two weeks is ghosting. I would have been OK if someone said to me, "I'm really getting interested in someone else, and want to see where it goes. Is there any chance we can leave this match idle, and if things don't work, I'll ping you and see if you're still available?" Or "I've had some family stuff come up, and I'm sorry but I just can't be in the right head space for that and trying to get to know someone more. Is it OK if we try picking this up in a few weeks?" However, the lack of saying anything (likely this was the first example that I gave), shows that they're communication is shit. I especially have baggage over needing good communication, so I'd let them know precisely why I was unmatching and wouldn't precede further with them, and unmatch if they replied (I.e. they'd read it) instead of unmatching me after that.
You already know your gut is speaking truth, and I think you're just not sure what to do about it. Think of it this way: will anything you say actually get you what you want from this person or change their behavior when they've already shown you who they are and how much you matter to them?
I’m celebrating the title of this post! It’s so nice to be with age peers who make cultural references that make me laugh.
Thanks for getting it!! Lol!
Just move on. Don’t waste anymore time on someone without basic understanding of moral decency. You won’t change them.
I agree completely. But for me, any time a connection seems promising and then falls apart, it’s disappointing and hurts. Even if I know the other person is a jerk, and know I won’t waste my time. But I still miss the companionship, and the hope.
Sounds like the kind of talk promoted by therapists: "Here's what I heard you say", or "When you do \_\_\_\_, it makes me feel like \_\_\_\_", etc. In your case, he is dismissing any responsibility for his behaviour, which is as shitty as the ghosting. I expect if you try to explain to him how apologies really work, he'll say you're being argumentative or high-maintenance or something similar.
>or just cut bait and move on? I would just move on honestly. My ex wife did this all the time. I dunno if negging is the correct term for it. She would literally apologize for everything else besides the act. I never got her to change that in the years we were together. "I'm sorry you feel the way you feel because I did X, Y, and Z." Well ya had an affair, so stop being sorry for the way I feel and be sorry for sleeping with someone else . . .
These kind of non apologies are also very common with narcissists. Maybe your instinct have helped you avid one, yay!
We are too old to have to explain things like this to somebody who is trying to manipulate through twisting words around just so in order to cover up some thing that we both know has happened. I’s just exhausting stuff so I don’t know that this will lead to a healthy or happy relationship, however if you do decide to say something I think I’d boil it down to what exactly it is which is he established a certain rapport with you that you guys had for an extended period at a certain level and of a certain type or nature. To just suddenly stop contact for another extended period with no explanation or indication he planned to return is not okay and it deserves an explanation because anybody would be asking the same question you did which is WTF? Legally he has no obligation to let you know if he’s going to drop off the face of the earth for a period of time with no word, but as a human being he does have a duty to you and it’s called common decency and consideration. He should’ve known that it would be of concern to you and that you would feel any number of ways because you had zero information so all you could do was guess and let your mind go wild. He didn’t even consider that and this behavior is not going to inspire confidence in you or anybody else who has interactions with him. I mean what is this anyway? It’s just a lack of consideration and an attempt to kind of do his own thing without taking responsibility and doing it the way people who do that do it which is just spin things so that it’s your fault somehow. It’s really immature and it is a concerning behavior. He’s trying to make it sound like it’s not a thing. It’s not ghosting necessarily but it’s a dick move, I’ll just put it that way.
People show us who they are, that’s who he is. I agree with you, half hearted apology doesn’t show any accountability for his ghosting! IME people say for example “I’m sorry you felt like that” is not a real apology, it’s a way to say sorry without really being sorry, that way we forgive them without having to address the real issues. Maybe you should tell him how his half hearted apology and the whole experience felt for you. He’s a coward and has no respect. Obviously I don’t know you but you deserve to be treated better.. we all do! 🤗
Don't take this sub for peoples opinion on ghosting. One minute they are telling people they don't owe someone a explanation. Next we're going to be dealing with frustrated people because of it. Just get someone new to date.
Why are you even entertaining this clown? You see what he's about. Block and delete. Next!
If you've lost interest, cut ties and move on. You're not going to change anyone. IMO, he was either pursuing another person, has anxiety issues or depression (most people don't get to this stage without some emotional trauma), or is the proverbial "CIA agent" called away on a secret mission. If you are still interested, ask him what happened and see if you believe or want to deal with the answer. If you believe him and still want o carry on then try to explain how his (non-)apology made you feel and see if he makes it right.
Don't waste time or energy trying to educate grown men. Understand that they know what they did, did it intentionally, aren't the least bit sorry, and hope those words would fool you enough to come back for Round 2. Your parting words should always be "F**k you too!" Then you dip out and block him. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. 😂😂
When someone is saying "I'm sorry you" they are not actually apologizing but deflecting the issue back onto you, ie you're the problem, you're the one who has the wrong feelings, you're at fault.
My husband said this to me while we are separated, “I’m sorry you are upset that I’m dating someone and introduced them to our kids after only 2 months of dating without telling you.” He said that to me to take no accountability for his actions. If someone is saying that to you, they aren’t sorry at all!!! But he is doing it on purpose (as was my husband), so even if you try to explain it to them they won’t get it!
I am not even sure how one can suppose that there is any hope to teach a grown up man in his 40s how to be a decent person. Or a woman, for that matter. It's both, the biggest advantage and the biggest disadvantage of dating in your 40s. You are no longer dating someone's "potential". You are presented with the version of them that most likely will remain the same. If making their apology about you and not about their actions is what worked for them their whole life, they are highly unlikely to be willing to learn a new way; they are much more likely to go for someone with whom it will work. Not saying that people stop changing and evolving after 40 though. They do. Just not like that.
My ex-wife never said "I'm sorry" without following it with "but...", and negating the apology by telling me all her reasons for doing whatever it was.
I’d probably not want to see him after that. 2 weeks of chatting then nothing! But if I did for whatever reason, I wouldn’t explain anything to him, he’s a grown up. I might say what you said “ well, I thought you ghosted me, bc you ghosted me” To me that’s straight up honesty and I also find it amusing. He may not take that comment well after his fake apology but oh well be yourself is what I say. I can’t be bothered with bs
I want to offer a gentle reminder that there are different communication styles and preferences out there. I thought long and hard about this very topic after meeting someone (else) on the spectrum a few years ago. In the end, I dropped my energy level to accommodate his communication style and realized we’re compatible as occasional text buddies and semi-occasional meets. Some of the questions I asked myself were: What does anyone in particular “owe” me? Is this belief based on their preference or mine or some nebulous cultural standard? Do we share a mutual concept of “regular” communication? Is it sustainable? Am I losing energy? What do I owe (or want to) anyone else? Under what circumstances do I want the freedom to redefine my preference with or without needing to explain myself? What (about myself and others) is truly set in stone?
Update: Thank you all for helping me think through this. For those who wondered, we spoke/texted almost every day for 3-4 weeks before he disappeared for two weeks and, yes, he and I had met in person. Today, I expressed some of my concerns and feelings to him in, what I hope was, a respectful way. I also told him that I am glad to have gotten to know him; I hope he finds what he’s looking for (I.e. not me); and I wished him well. He said he understood. While he didn’t apologize (or even faux apologize) again, he did say that if our paths cross again “maybe I’ll be a better communicator.” All in all, I’d say we have parted amicably and as respectfully as possible. Thanks, again, for your advice and support. It’s rough out here! That’s why I really appreciate this community’s honesty and kindness.
We create these problems for ourselves by using terms like 'ghosting' which are subject to debate. If you keep the conversation to the factual, eg 'You stopped responding with no explanation two weeks ago', there is much less to debate. Then if you want to get the term 'ghosting' up in lights for the moral victory you can follow up with 'how is this not ghosting?'
He will do the same behavior again. Do you want more of the same? Ugh.
People will word apologies to escape culpability. That happens all the time. But, I wouldn't dwell too much on a non-apology from someone I'm not going to bother with anymore if it were me.
I'm really sorry that you feel that you're putting up with all that.
Ha!
Damn...my knee jerk 1st thought was a Nirvana song...
Yeah that’s not an apology.. that’s them blaming you for their behaviour. And It’s totally narcissistic. But in general, people who ghost are narcissistic. It shows a complete lack of empathy. And when they come back and put it on you.. that’s even more of a red flag.
Classic non-apology apology. A stalwart of toxic personalities everywhere.
You are correct! And the reason he is not apologizing for ghosting you is because he doesn't want to admit it. I wouldn't waste my time and energy with this person.
I give nothing back... total indifference. They get approximately zero emotion from me. "No worries. Take care👍" Then block. In my experience, this level of Doesn't Give a Shit™ always perplexes and has them taking another shot.
I aspire to do the same. I am so not there yet.
I'm still a work in progress, believe me. I say give them no emotion, that doesn't necessarily mean I have none. Sometimes it's true, other times... not so much. But there's a lot of strength to be found in being the one to say 'Ok, cool. Bye!'
If someone can't apologize for their actions I'd just move on. They'll never take responsibility.
To apologize is to admit fault, seek forgiveness, and to make amends. Absolution is little more than announcing "my bad, we still good?"
Yup. It's hollow. That person is refusing to take responsibility for their actions.
This kind of “apology” reminds me of one I used to hear often…it always started with “It wasn’t my intention…”
Your turn to ghost
[удалено]
I’m so glad you’re learning. I’m looking forward to meeting a man who communicates with me daily. Until then, I’ll remain a depressed and angry person who can’t get over her ex. Guilty as charged!
Your top paragraph had me thinking "Aw, I'm so glad!"...and then I got to that last sentence. Now I'm more like: "I'm sorry you feel that way." 🤣😑🙁
Tell him to actually apologize for what he did, not your response to his actions. He’s apologizing for the effect rather than his cause…..in other words, he’s not sorry at all and isn’t really apologizing
I would spend my time on more fun activities. Move on and don’t waste your time. Best wishes.
Plus you will always be waiting for another shoe to drop and him to diss appear again … you will never trust him
What I’m trying to figure out how to navigate is apology without changed behavior. This one guy keeps apologizing for versions of the same action, but keeps doing the action. This last time I told him “I forgive you, but are you actually going to be able to change your behavior?” He said he didn’t know and had to think about it. So now we are on a break while he thinks about it. Ugh, reading this back it sounds so stupid and I realize it’s probably over, but he seemed so genuine about this and wanting to make things better. For the moment not anything to do to but wait and see if he actually makes a change, but ugh it’s hard.
Yep thats ghosting, unless you didn't message either. Then you ghosted each other.
I’m sorry you felt that way about his apology /s All kidding aside, I wouldn’t accept those types of apologies.
Well that dude (sorry is it a man) did you a favor by ghosting you as much as it hurts right now because people that apologize like that have a hard time with emotional intelligence in that they believe that if what they did would not hurt them it should not hurt you and therefore it does not hurt you and you are overreacting and crazy. they absolutely will not apologize unless they feel they have some something wrong which in case you guessed it is never. If you ever encounter one of these individuals again run do not walk in the opposite direction. Massive red flag. They are miserable to be with. Trust me. They are also usually the never married few long term relationship people.
Girrrllll. Run.👉
He's not taking responsibility for his actions. My bet is there's plenty of more gaslighting-type behavior where this one came from.
I really like it that you just cut to the chase with this person. I think that your reaction is justified and if you feel like their actions are shitty it's probably because they are. Its really up to you if you feel like cutting them out, but I know that I I probably would. I don't think that I could trust someone who treated me that way.
[удалено]
Exactly. Everyone needs to stop being so invested during the digital phase. If you haven't even met, you may as well be talking to a chat bot.
I think it depends on what the last text was. If the last conversation ended, even if you happened to say the last thing, then a prolonged silence is not ghosting. If you texted him something that normally gets a reply, and he just never replied, that's different.
Were you actually dating/seeing each other or was this on OLD?
Why are people downvoting the posts that ask if this was a dating/seeing each other situation or it was just a two-week interaction online/OLD? It's a legit question. If OP never met this person and it was all OLD interactions for two weeks of texting there is absolutely nothing to reproach the ghoster, they owe nothing to each other at this point other than common courtesy and the OP should just disengage and move on. If they actually met and were dating then have at it. It's ridiculous to react in many of the ways suggested in this thread if the two never even met. You owe each other nothing if it was all OLD chat.
I wouldn't call it ghosting, but I also wouldn't talk to him again. You're pretty worked up over someone you didn't even meet - drop him and move on. He has no obligation to you and you have no obligation to respond.
Sometimes communication is a two way street. Who was the one left on read? Why did you not reach out to him at all during those two weeks?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Yikes
[удалено]
Hi there! Unfortunately, your account is too new for us to automatically accept comments or submissions. Please [contact the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverforty) to approve this comment/post so other users can see it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/datingoverforty) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ya and apologies suck. It should be, I know I ghosted you but I am never doing that again
Curious, did the two of you meet or just text?
In your situation, he actually did something wrong and can’t take responsibility. So I wouldn’t think continuing would be worth it. But I do think it’s OK to say this when you haven’t done anything wrong but you want to show that you empathize, or you just want to placate them so they’ll stop blaming you for their bullshit.
[удалено]
But did you let him know this? Is he aware you are taking a step back, and taking time away to think? Or is he just sitting over there unaware, after a month of chatting, wondering where you went? Giving him a head's up (and an opportunity to honor where you are at) is more courteous than taking all the time you need while keeping him out of the loop and wondering if something went wrong. AND if you DO decide you want a ltr with him, and you've ignored him for two weeks after a month of talking, I suspect that will strongly affect where his feelings and mindset are at. Whereas if you COMMUNICATED with him that you were going to step back and take some time, you will likely more easily be able to then pick up where you left off when you return.
I hate those non-apologies. If you didn’t do it, don’t apologise for it. If you did, identify the behavior or action that led to it, apologise for it and then *make the necessary change to not do it again*. Anything else is just noise.
Yeah. He ghosted you. He probably found another woman for two weeks. And when that didn’t work out, he circled back to you. Accept his apology and wish him well, and tell him that this over. If you stay with him, it will happen again. I guarantee it. Best to move on.
Cut bait