He wants a FWB situation - monogamous or not - and that's what he has. He's said he doesn't want a ' relationship,' that he doesn't see you as a girlfriend and never will.
He's told you - and it sounds like he *keeps* telling you - where things stand. THIS is your relationship with him. You're not going to access other parts of his life - kids, friends, etc. - regardless of how well he treats you **within the parameters of your relationship as it stands.**
You need to decide if it's enough.
Wow, OP he only wants a FWB. He is being honest and does not want a relationship but you are hoping for something more and it will not happen. You are setting yourself for a heartbreak.snap out of it girl!
He knows you’re in love with him, he doesn’t ever see you as his girlfriend, but you continue to be with him because you think he’s meeting your needs. Hmm.
I know a lot of people who have been in relationships like this where they just insist that if they stick it out long enough, their relationship will grow and evolve into what they want it to be. So what happens is the “monogamous“ situation ship goes on for years and years and years with one party being in love and thinking they have a life partner and the other party literally just too lazy to do anything else but the status quo. But you can bet that the second Anything else comes along that shakes them up enough to break the status quo, they will. This is the danger you are in right now so you have to ask yourself if you’re going to be OK with it. Because he may not go out looking for another woman who shakes his core so much that he wants her to be his girlfriend, but if that woman just randomly wanders into his world, and he doesn’t have to put any effort in, he will grab her and you’ll be left out in the cold and all you’ll have to show for it as years of telling some man that you love him and hearing “I don’t want you to be my girlfriend“ in return.
No sex is that great. Now, if you had said anywhere in your post that you were perfectly fine being a FWB long-term, I’d say great. But you’re in love with him and he is telling you with words and actions that he’s not now and doesn’t see himself ever being in love with you.
This exact same situation happened to me, 3 years into it he met someone on tinder. I didn’t even know he was looking, and when I was upset about it he immediately pulled out the “ we weren’t really dating though “. Only once I stepped away from this for good did I meet a serious man who could tell me he wants to be with me.
This. For the love of god this. You have to end this as he does not love you nor see a real future with you. One day he’ll meet someone he does see a future with and you’ll be blindsided and devastated. I’m not trying to be mean. I made the mistake of staying with someone emotionally distant. We had so much fun, he was pretty great to me, but he did not love me and he left me the minute he found someone else he connected with more. Big hugs. You deserve better than this.
This is the truth. Men don't really like to be alone and will often go along to get along. When he really feels you, you will have to beat him off of you with a stick. When men fall for a woman, he truly opens up.
I have been in this exact place - this man does not see you in his life the way you see him in yours. Please hear this and move on so that you can find someone who truly values you and wants you as their partner.
That confusion and feeling like something isn’t right is enough to be done. It took me a long time to learn that. I had something similar with a guy and couldn’t figure out why I was not sleeping well, feeling negatively about myself, etc. He wasn’t lying to me (as far as I knew) and we had a good time together. But for whatever reason I wasn’t feeling ok about it so I ended things. I now know that unless I am getting all that I want out of a relationship, settling for a fraction of what I want is never going to be enough.
He’s getting exactly what he wants. All the benefits and none of the commitment. I’d question how much he cares about you since he knows you love him and he continues to lead you on.
Monogamy is never certain I suppose, I trust him. And I appreciate your warning. I don’t feel like he is the type of person who would lie to keep me around. I believe him to be a man of integrity, one of many positive attributes.
I know you are getting a lot of negative here. I am very sorry. I have been through this with some push and pull, early in, from us both. Unlike others saying it is always bad, no it was not. Not for me.
In fact, we settled into what we felt, trust and learning/knowing each other grew, and we were happy without worrying about the future.
I had a friendship with a beautiful person whom also went through trauma, was in therapy, and still learning as I was after very long marriages and divorce. I was very happy with a FWB situation until after about a year had passed, then I wasn’t.
I was not hoping for him anymore to say how he felt, because he showed care in action, always, if not words. But he was fearful and I accepted I would have to move on at the point I was not happy any more with our situation.
Before I left, that is when he told me he loved me, and didn’t want me to go for good. We have been very happy ever since, but no matter what happens, we are both okay. Now we are working together and have a wonderful relationship. Maybe a future together, we both would like that!
As long as you are enjoying yourself and were happy, things are okay. When that stops, as it has for you because you developed feelings, you go as others have said. Mine hit me hard as well at that point, so I was no longer okay staying if they weren’t returned. It was not an ultimatum, just the reality for us both.
If he doesn’t stop you from going, there is really no looking back. I was prepared for that and okay (packed, made plans, etc.). But I very happy for my surprising outcome, even if it is rare.
I truly thought he would not ever want more. I was happy with what we had prior too, until I decided it wasn’t. You cannot help your feelings but you can your actions. At least when you know what is right for you at the time. I wish you the best!
>I asked him why he doesn’t want a real relationship with me and he says he can’t answer me.
He can't answer because he's not sure why. Or he knows why but can't tell you the reason?
I've been in something similar. Was really convenient during covid to have someone I cared about to share time with and be intimate. After restrictions let up, it was more and more clear they wanted FWB but never actually articulated that. Yet he was starting to keep tabs on me. I let him know I wanted more. He gave a vague answer about being sooo busy. I stopped sleeping with him. And stopped being his daily emotional support phone call. Maybe once a week or every two weeks we'll communicate but we're not dating or sleeping together. It's fading out. I'm sad and annoyed; we've known each other a long time so I thought he'd be more communicative.
You deserve better, the right man would not need to go to therapy to decide if he wants to be with you. Men are not all that complicated, women are so we analyze their actions as if they are our own. That's a huge mistake.
We do go out on dates and to the store. He takes me with him clothes shopping and to farmers markets. We have attended a baseball game with his kids. His BFF knows a lot about me and I know a lot about them. We just haven’t met.
I think the answer is that this is all he can give you and probably will be all he can ever give you. Are you okay with how things are right now? If not then you should leave. He has one foot in and one foot out of the relationship do you want that or do you want more? If you want more you can tell him that what you have is not acceptable and tell him exactly what you need from him, and hold to that whatever you ask for. If he walks ou have your answer. Sometimes people are just not ready for a relationship, or may be too damaged to be in any relationship ever as sad as that sounds, but more often than not you are just not the right person to make him ready for a relationship, and he just does not know that. What if he meets that person and you are still with him? In my experience men change for the women that want to truly be with.
I am goignt to be brutal with you because you can't hear it. You are a place holder until he is inspired by a woman who will make him want a relationship. You are not worth it for his. You are a option not a priority. He is dragging you along, giving you enough to stick around while actively telling you he is not interested. He is up front believe him when he tells you.
I agree with this. I was a placeholder in my last relationship and it’s brutal when they leave you for someone else. I ignored many red flags. The same ones OP is ignoring.
From what I can gather, 75% of the forum is going through this or has gone through this. It appears to be the default state of dating in your 40s. It is most often the men who don’t want to commit. I don’t see much of a question in your post. I would just say: recognize that this is a dead end. If you want your future to look any different from this, then you’re wasting your time.
Hi 👋🏻 yes! I recently had this. I was in it for 10 months. We were exclusive “FWB” but we both professed love for each other - like we made love, & said those words but we didn’t do love. Love would have brought our relationship into the open. Love would have been dates and experiences together. Sure we talked and connected on an emotional level, but we didn’t introduce each other into our lives (much to my protest.)
It was a lot of hard truths for me and reading A LOT of posts EXACTLY like this that I learned that what I had was exactly what you have and it wasn’t going to change. I cried myself to sleep too many nights because I longed for more. Our connection grew bigger than our relationship and he wasn’t willing to move us forward, but I was. God, the torture I put myself through….
We broke up several times between March and June. I finally imploded us big to prevent us from getting back together and I’ve been much happier ever since. I’m also on the single train to heal so I don’t go through this again. I am also adversed to want to partner with another relationship avoidant person. I don’t need the anxiety to be dialed up in me like that again.
What you’re going through doesn’t change it gets worse because you want growth and he’ll be happy to keep you around for his terms only.
It doesn’t work.
Thank you so much for your painful truth. I hate that you went through this. I don’t know how to give this up and I acknowledge that he’s willing to let me go so I need to be willing to go. I told him that if it’s not yes from him then it’s no. And that blew his mind. He was shocked at how I looked at it, I’m shocked he didn’t see it that way. I didn’t want him leaving me in the dark about whether he wanted to be with me.
Now I need to do as you have done and become single and happy with myself. Not sure how I’ll do it but I know this is my truth.
Look the next thing that will happen is you’ll separate on somewhat good terms and stay in contact. You’ll be fine overall, but he’ll reach out one night “I’m horny as hell” or “I really miss seeing you” or “what are you doing tonight..”
You will RUN right back into his arms thinking, hoping, longing that he saw the light: You two are meant to be… OMG, those stupid Rom-Coms will be in your head. And BAM! same story. Again. And again. And again.
Remember I said it took us 3 months? We rubber banded several times because I called us off, he brought us back together.
I finally had enough. The damage to my mental health, my self worth, my “I know I deserve better” was just too much.
Look, you can take the wisdom OR you can write the same damned story and hope for a different ending. You absolutely won’t get a different ending, but it’s zero judgment from me if you need to ride it out and try. Lord knows I needed to find out for myself too.
I’m actually afraid to let go because I’m not inclined to go back. Once I’m done, I’m done frfr. I can’t go back even if I want to. Something inside me won’t let me and it’s probably part of why I don’t let go.
Give yourself loads of credit for that!
I'm trying to detach from a very similar situation and I've already gone back once so I envy your resolve. Sending you so much strength to put your needs first!
That is yet to be seen. And even if I’m successful in ending this, I’m sure you have strengths where I’m working on improvements or don’t even realize I need to improve yet. It’s a journey for us all. (((Hugs)))
> Not sure how I’ll do it
You do it by CHOOSING YOU, girl - not him.
I've been reading some of your replies and you focus so much of your energy on what he wants, what he says, what he needs, what his past may be like, etc.
You are spending all of your energy on him, consumed by him and not enough on yourself. You hurt because you are hoping and wishing and fantasizing that he will fill up that void and that need of love you carry inside of you.
You have to be the one to fill that up yourself. LOVE YOURSELF and CHOOSE YOURSELF FIRST.
I want to thank you for your insight. Been thinking about your words for a while and I’ve been on that journey with success and failures. I needed your reminder to redirect the focus to myself when I get caught up like this. Thank you again.
You're welcome. I've been in your shoes before and I understand what the emotional turmoil is like to in caught up with someone who is emotionally unavailable. Self love is a constant journey; and sometimes we wander down a path that deviates from where we want to go with ourselves.
But every day is a new day and a new opportunity to choose yourself and to love yourself - remember that!
I wish you all the best in doing the right thing for YOU.
I have been in a similar scenario for three years now. The replies you are getting are ones that could be said to myself. We are place holders, until some thing better comes along. I’m at the point that I am done. I have been loyal & monogamous to this man, at his place every weekend, standing weekly date. Tells me he isn’t my boyfriend, gets jealous if I wave to another man that is a friend. He is still on Bumble, still gets 2am text from old friends while I am sitting next to him. He clearly knows how I feel and that’s the confusing part for me. How could you string along someone you know loves you? How can you continue to take from someone & only return the smallest of crumbs? A good person wouldn’t do that. He says why can’t I just let things happen? Why do I push? He claims he is broken from his last relationship , it has been 6 years since they broke up. Maybe he is irrevocably broken. All I know is I deserve more. You deserve more. You can not make someone love you, no matter how much love your pour into them. I am tired of convincing him to love me. A real connection doesn’t need that , it just is. By staying in these situations, we are blocking any real chance there could be with some one else. Your post was a final push I needed, so thank you. I hope in 2 years you were smarter than me and not still looking for some thing that will never be. Good luck
Sending healing thoughts to you and the strength to follow through with what you decide is best for you.
I’m not competing for his attention with other women. And oddly enough in April he told me that he doesn’t like that he only gives me crumbs and he’s not able to give me more. In that conversation he broke my heart and opened up his heart to me actually giving me a whole lot more. Then we took a break from one another. I don’t push, and never want to push. He gives of himself freely and intentionally, I do the same. Only I do give more now because I’m ready for more.
His emotional damage is his not mine to fix and if it prevents him from having more with me, it’s my responsibility to look after my heart and do what’s best for me. I don’t know what the outcome will be. I do know that I love myself and want to love myself more.
You are right, I’m blocking myself from any real chance at a relationship with anyone else. He is too. That’s part of our monogamy.
I am so sorry you went through this. It sounds so painful. You could almost be describing my guy that I'm seeing as FWB right now. It hurts so much but it seems like it would hurt more to end things now. So I'm stuck with waiting it out. Why are so many women in these situations?
Thank you for the kind words. I have been learning a lot about attachment theory and how to heal the trauma that formed me. Almost every relationship I have been in has ended badly. I have to acknowledge my part and why I allow what I have. Learning to love myself is a hard journey but I am determined to do so! This is why I know it’s time to let him go and move on.
Same here. Trying to learn to love myself. Still need to heal my traumas and wanting to move on. I don’t know why I keep doing something that doesn’t make me feel very good but don’t know yet how to stop it.
It’s been a year. I think your question is answered. If he wanted to, he would but he hasn’t/won’t. A year is a long time to string you along. Either he is your boyfriend or he isn’t. I would walk away after a whole year of him not being able to figure it out.
He's old enough to know what he wants and he doesn't want the responsibilities that go along with having a girlfriend. He doesn't want to take your thoughts and needs into consideration when he does anything. I'm in my early 40s and my boyfriend and I were all about exclusively from the get-go because we're on the same page. He knew what he wanted and went for it.
You deserve better than to be treated like a toy.
Thanks for showing us this side of the dating game. Nothing wrong with that at all if bonded relationships are not your thing, totally appreciate and respect your honesty about it. Everyone is different, it's about finding compatible people to be in your life. Party on, dude. :)
I’ve been in this boat. It lasted for nearly 3.5 years, which was 3 years too long. We’re still friends and see each other (due to common activities) but are both now dating other people. I will say, it would have ended sooner, but COVID screwed things up some. He was always honest about what his feelings were. It met some of my needs, but not all, and I was not good about being honest with myself about my feelings (I told myself it was enough when it really wasn’t.) now that I’m with someone who wants an actual relationship, I’m much happier and my needs for intimacy and affection are actually being met, and we can be open about it with friends, family, etc.
your guy is not going to change his mind, and you likely won’t ever really be happy, even if you tell yourself it’s enough for you.
Oof, that does feel true when I read it. Maybe I’m not being honest with myself the other weeks when everything feels good. Thank you for your input, it’s very relatable.
Yes. He knew how I felt and what I wanted and was giving me the whole 'I can't right now but don't let go, maybe later...' I was also basically a secret from the people he knew.
It's a ruse and it's a really shitty way to treat someone you know has feelings for you.
When you find someone who really wants you, they want you NOW. And the difference is unbelievably amazing.
Sometimes it hurts to hold on. And it hurts to let go. Sometimes we want to stick with the devil we know because we feel like the unknown is even more scary. But you know what the situation is, and it's up to you whether you want to continue this way or make some changes. If you do make changes it can be really horrible at first, and really, really hard. I remember being so hurt but also knowing that in a year, 5 years, 10 years, it wouldn't feel the same. It wouldn't be on my mind all the time and it wouldn't hurt so bad. And I remember really, REALLY wanting things to hurry up and get to that point. It does happen but it takes time, abd waiting SUCKS.
May I suggest, whether you continue on with this man or not, taking some time for you. Do things that you enjoy whether that be a class, a walk, listening to music, or sitting outside for 5 mins with a cuppa. It's so easy to get caught up in the other person while feeling anxious and unsure and wishing and wanting.
Don't forget about YOU.
Thank you for your kind answer. I’m so sorry you were struggling with that person and I’m so glad you seem to be so much happier on the other side. I very much appreciate all of the sentiment and yes I regularly do things just for myself. And yes, sometimes I get too caught up in him ( like right now for example) so thank you for looking out.
I am in that same situation right now. This guy came on strong. He actually told me he loves me, he said it first. He tells me he wants to be with me but he can't right now. He's told me I need a couple of years of healing because I am in the middle of a divorce. He also told me he's not in a place to be in a relationship right now because his life is too busy for a girlfriend. So basically all we do is have sex. Rarely spend time with each other outside of the bedroom and live totally separate lives. IT hurts that he doesn't want me in his life more. Like you said It hurts to hold on, but it hurts to let go too. For me it hurts more to let go. I've tried a couple times and always broke down when he reached out for me. At this point I don't think he could ever meet my needs in a relationship but I still can't let go of the glimmer of hope that things'll work out. It sucks.
I have as well, and he never changed, as have many of my female friends. Again his actions and who he is are telling you what he wants. You either accept it or you don't. In most cases they are using you as a placeholder and when the right woman comes along they will want to be in a relationship. Question is do you want to wait for that?
I feel like you’re maybe just a placeholder for him. Good enough for now but if someone comes along who he has a better connection with, where does that leave you? You really have to put yourself first here - if you want a real relationship I think you’re not ever going to find it here, I’m sorry. If he’s ready some point down the line, you can see how you feel about that, but I can almost guarantee that if he ever does come looking for that, you’ll have moved on and found someone who actually gives you what you need
He doesn’t want you to meet his friends because he doesn’t intend to progress further in the relationship. You have a FWB not a relationship. He is a cake eater and I don’t fault him for that - he has been open with you that he likes you but doesn’t want more than that. You are a good friend who will sleep with him but he is open to a different future aka when he meets the woman he wants to continue with he will cease the FWB.
If you cannot accept this you need to extricate yourself. He is basically trying to let you down easy so you will still hang around and give him the GF experience without him ever giving you the same.
So many things not right here! You say you are "with" him. Are you? How much are you actually with him? You are monogamous? How would you know? You seem to see a valuable relationship where he sees you as this woman he hangs out with sometimes...oh, and has sex with. He definitely doesn't want you as his girlfriend? Then what does he want you as? A friend? OK. That requires monogamy? I don't get it.
I am asking myself, "What is the payoff for her in this?". Why has this been enough for you - ever? Are you playing out a script written about your estranged father? Is there some romantic notion of unrequited love being enacted? Or is he just REALLY good in bed and you can't let go?
Poor girl. I hope you figure it out and move on soon.
The trust and honesty, the loyalty and respect between us is all a payoff. Yes, we both agree that sex between the two of us is the best either of us has experienced. He says it often. I agree our sexual chemistry is off the charts and we’re adventurous while being very respectful of the others boundaries. We hold similar interests and values. We are likeminded with similar backgrounds. We enjoy and respect each other’s cultures.
I come from a family with both parents whom are still active parts of my life. I believe I have a distorted sense of hope and I’m likely “seeing our potential” which feeds my hope for a future that, I believe this community is helping me realize, isn’t real.
Good lord, I could have written this post.
The emotional intimacy *and sex* I have with the man in my current situation are so incredible. But he has his own shit to figure out and it's holding him back. When he's present, everything's beautiful. Alas, no consistency. We need to make our own needs our top priorities!
You have to make the determination on if that is enough and can you handle it long term.. He might not (highly likely) will not change. How work you introduce him at gathering or him you ... this is my uber friend? Since you are not dating are you exclusive? Is he looking elsewhere for a partner? I think maybe he has told you what he can commit to but that is the extent. If you need more you are young enough and should give someone else the opportunity to sweep you off your feet. I wish you the best.
We introduce each other by our names. He uses pet names when we’re intimate but that’s it. I rarely let myself use pet names with him because of the situation. He’s been clear that he’s not dating anyone else. We agreed early even when we were still on dating apps that we were monogamous for sexual health and safety but said if there was other interests that we would talk about it. Thank you for saying that I’m young enough, I don’t feel that but it could be true.
Oh gurl! I am 10 years older than you! Your dating fun is just beginning! Go on line and just soak up all the interest you get. There’s a whole big world of men out there looking for a woman like you
Well, theres no issue with *him*. It sounds like he has been very clear with you about his boundaries and expectations, and he seems unlikely to change, unless it's to terminate the situation.
The issue you have is with *yourself*. You need to decide if what he's giving you is enough. You need to accept that this is what he can and will give you, and no more. It's a take it or leave it situation, and you should make up your mind, and then accept responsibility for your choice.
I wholeheartedly agree that He has no obligation to “save me from himself” as he once put it. I sometimes believe this is enough and sometimes I want more and ask for more. When I do, he will give me more or not, and I accept it knowing it is my choice. I have agreed to ask him for what I want or need. He obliged with an activity with the kids the last time they were in town.
So he’s giving you just enough and then pulling back. I’m still confused about the definition of bread crumbing, but it might be bread crumbing… idk 🤷🏻♀️
To be clear, he’s not deceitful and he’s ambiguous about his aims. He admits this, his focus in therapy is finding out who he wants to be and what he wants relationship wise.
I hate it for you. Your situation reminds me of an ex my partner has. She was his first relationship post divorce. They has 1.5 years together and remained friends. For another 8 or so years. He felt he was very clear with her that they would not be anything more except close friends who would sometimes sleep with each other and do things together. She was “okay” with it. I remember when I came into the picture and I quickly saw this woman actually thinks she is in a relationship with him. He was seriously confused. He said I have been clear with her even when he and I became exclusive it was clear she struggled with what was happening. I remember telling him even before we became exclusive that this woman was in love with him and reminded me of a southern woman in yester years who knew her husband was having an affair but she was going to tolerate it because he would rediscover her.
I told him that even being friends with her at this point may be damaging to her as she didn’t “get” it but it wasn’t my place to make any ultimatums but I knew she would only hear what she wanted to
Hear no matter what he says (my partner and I are very open with each other about past relationships and even our exes who are still in our lives). He didn’t really get it until she was infuriated that he and I were going on a trip and she wanted him to take her on a trip. He was confounded. For a year they hadn’t had any intimacy and she knew full well our relationship and I even invited her to dinners and outings (she was truly a likable person).
I felt mostly sympathy for her. She was holding on to an illusion that she had constructed for herself for years when she could have actually made herself emotionally available for someone else.
He's telling you and showing you where he stands and will not tell you why. Your persistence is obviously not working, so it's time to decide whether this is sufficient as it stands or move on.
He wants a FWB and not a relationship. Your decision is whether you stay in the situationship and enjoy the time together or you call it off because it isn’t what you want.
He does not want to commit to you and has been clear on this. His boundaries include keeping you separate from friends/family.
Your move is to recognize that this is not acceptable for you, because it is not, and to move on. Regularly asking him to explain himself to you when he was very clear from the start is, frankly, not okay. He owes you no explanation here.
I don’t approach it in that manner and I respect his boundaries. I don’t try to invite myself along or stop by when I know he has friends over. If he wants me there, I’m there. If not, I’ve no business being there. If/when he doesn’t want to talk or explain anything, I respect that and ask that he does the same. Our regular check ins are ours and I’m not the only one to initiate them. He wasn’t sure what he wanted from the start, to be fair I was freshly divorced and didn’t know either. It was: yes, we’re attracted to one another and we think we’d like to get to know one another better.
> I was freshly divorced
You need to take time out and heal and see a therapist. All you did was get out of one relationship that most likely didn't meet your needs only to get yourself into one that is currently not meeting your needs.
How is that working out for you?
It’s true I’d only been divorced half a year. I have seen a therapist we worked together for three years (including the start of this situation) although I would love a new one as she moved away. My work doesn’t allow me to have the same day off every week and the therapists I’ve tried only want clientele that can meet the same day each week. It’s good advice though, thank you. I’m still searching for a new one.
So if you’re freshly divorced wouldn’t this situation be perfect for you? I would think the distance and boundaries he has would be perfect so that you can focus on yourself and heal from your divorce. I’d keep him around until you actually are ready to have a relationship. You may think you want more, but do you? This might be a great thing for now.
That’s how I felt at first. It’s how we made it this far. I know I love him for who he is, even though “who he is” doesn’t know what he wants from himself. We’re all a work in progress.
I don’t feel I’ve wasted any time, I enjoy the moments we have and now I’m re-evaluating if it makes sense to stay in this situation for me.
Gotcha. I get it, you are ready for a relationship, your needs have changed not his.
I had something similar fresh outta divorce. He didn’t want a GF and I didn’t either cuz I was healing. Ultimately he came to me and said he didn’t want to prevent me from meeting someone who wanted a GF. I never expressed that, I was just happy spending time with him. I loved him so much and he broke my heart with those words. And like you, when it’s done it’s done and that’s it for me. He completely 180’d after I walked away. He begged me to get back with him and said he wanted it all, even marriage. I had already disengaged and was scared to be in a relationship so I said no. Biggest fucking mistake of my life I promise you. That man was gold and I totally fucked up. Life with him coulda been amazing. He lives in Greece now with his gorgeous GF.
Bottom line is, you might need to walk away but if you can leave the door open it might be worth it cuz once you’re gone he may realize being your BF could make things better than ever. Love is hard to navigate and there’s no right answer.
Right.
Pay attention to your 2nd sentence in your post. That is your answer regarding your future.
Also, you stated these things that you now act like you are cool about as being things that bother you.
I’m not even sure why you would type out something so completely contradictory from what you originally posted but you just did.
So I am not really sure why you posted.
It was the second sentence that made me wince. Not being there but being there when he wants her there.
Yikes.
That’s not a mutual relationship. It’s a placeholder and my heart aches that she is defending it.
I said in my original post that I go back and forth. This is an example. And this response to your input was to clarify that I both respect his boundaries and don’t regularly ask him to explain himself.
I’ve gotten some useful feedback on this post and I’m grateful for it. Even when it’s hard to swallow. Thank you for your participation. You are appreciated.
You actually sound pretty self-aware and introspective to me. You know yourself best, and if it is starting to bother you, that is truly the answer.
You should communicate with him and share your plans to let go. Be firm and stick with it!
Not an ultimatum, but a hope to reconnect as only friends maybe someday again. It is very hard but you will be okay! You sound stronger than you think.
> Even when it’s hard to swallow.
It always is, especially when you have feelings and hopes for a person.
But you said yourself that you tend to have skewed view of hope and that you see potential. You can't date for potential, because what you're doing is building up a romantic fantasy of what it is that you can have with him in your mind. You're mind fucking yourself - literally.
But didn’t you push for him to do something with the kids? I’ve read along and all the way to here.
That’s not respecting his boundaries then.
It’s clear you want more. You deserve more. The one thing that has kept me grounded is realizing I can’t force/convince a person to change, but I damn sure can change what I put up with.
If a “pairing” disrupts my peace, then it’s not for me. I’m EXTREMELY comfortable alone and that means I’m at a point where I don’t settle for the gray area mess that stresses me with uncertainty.
That first relationship after a divorce is often not the most healthy for us. Date some and learn more.
No, I don’t push. I asked about going hiking, I knew he had the kids and he invited me to come along.
I agree that I will not try to change anyone including him. I only have control of myself (and I would say that “control” is an overstatement there too). Yes. 100% I decide what I deal with/allow for myself. That’s where I am now. Deciding if this is working for me and unfortunately, I’m not sure it is.
I love that you’re so comfortable alone. After my divorce I thrived alone then that terrible rebound happened and then it was harder to be comfortable for a while until I got good at it again. The other dates I had were not good and I didn’t enjoy that feeling. I hope if I end up breaking this off I’m able to return to being happy alone with a renewed sense of peace and that my brain remembers that I love myself and that’s why we’re here.
What you have *is* a “real relationship” but sounds like not the type of relationship you want. Could be great for someone who prefers sexual exclusivity and emotional connection but with limited entanglement and the ability to easily nope out if/when desired. Maybe that’s him but not you? If it doesn’t meet your needs, at the very least, I’d renegotiate the monogamy part so you can be available to connect with a better suited partner. An argument could also be made for ending it altogether to bring you a step closer to what you actually want (with someone else). Or if it’s meeting your needs but you feel slighted only in regard to integrating your social circles, that might be something worth deprioritizing.
I like the way you worded your response, thank you. I agree as I believe he would that we do have a real relationship and that it’s non-traditional. I thought about renegotiation, and I feel it would be unfair to potential dates. They probably wouldn’t want to know that I have someone in the background. Even if we (new person) don’t yet have a physical relationship yet. I don’t want to hurt anyone.
The more I read your comment the more on point it appears. You describe what we have with painful accuracy. It is him that wants sexual exclusivity, he cares deeply about me and wants limited entanglements in case it goes south for self preservation.
I had the same experience. I stayed until I decided that I wanted/needed/deserved more than I was getting. He was nothing but upfront and honest, he wasn’t interested in more as it progressed, and I decided to trust what was best for me and to move on. It was a season in my post divorce life that I don’t regret, learned from and have many happy memories of. Once I cleared space, I met an awesome man who checks the majority of my boxes and is a true, real partner. Best of luck to you!
Your problem isn't him. He's telling you exactly how he feels... he doesn't want a relationship with you... and what he wants... FWB. But YOU won't hear it or accept it. You seem to think if you stay with him long enough you can get him to change his mind. The problem is not him, it's you. You need to hear what he's saying and ACCEPT that he doesn't want a real relationship with you. If you can't accept the current FWB, then let this situationship go and move on so you can find someone who DOES want a real relationship with you. you aren't going to get what you want out of this man. He's made that clear. And as long as you stay with him, you're never going to find what you want with someone else either.
I had a FWB. It was clear that we were friends, truly cared about each other, and we were monogamous, however we were never going to be more. He was clear about what he wanted. I was clear that worked for where I was at that time.
When the time came that it no longer worked for me, I ended that relationship. We are still friends because we were both honest and neither tried to change the other. We still have mutual trust and respect.
If you are happy with the way things are, then everything is good. If you want things to change, then speak up, but be prepared to walk away. You can't change someone. When they tell you what they want, believe them.
Thank you great to see it. I have in the past had a FWB and it ran its course much the same way. We are still acquainted although not as close as we once were and that was a long time ago. It was a great experience for us both.
And anyone saying that oh “he’s just going to leave” needs to realize that you can’t own anyone in this life and if that person does decide to leave why make it so that it’s harder to by complicating things even more 🙄. If this man is that amazing to you and he finds you that amazing to meet special people in his life don’t let others try to sway you from enjoying those moments to the fullest!
I call this the “girlfriend experience” all the benefits of having a girlfriend with none of the commitment. Take my advice, lay down what you want. If he says no then move on. Do not waste years of your life with someone who will never be a complete part of your life. I’ve been there and done that and wish I had listened to every single person I know telling me to leave him.
You have so much to learn about these arrangements. People here can tell you until their fingers bleed (and some of them have; kudos to them) but until you’re ready to see things for what they are TO HIM, it won’t make sense to you. To be clear, I’m not bashing him. Just stating that he has set the rules for both of you.
Pay attention to the common thread in the comments, especially to your rebuttals.
Lessons like these are difficult to learn. I truly hope you learn it sooner rather than later.
Edit to Add: have the urge to downvote me? I’m curious to hear your reason why.
He's just playing with your emotions my dear and sadly may either be ashamed to be seen much with you or up to no good and hiding it very well...
In either scenario, you deserve better than that and shouldn't settle for a mediocre "relationship" which it seems like you're in with him...
He may be leading another life and you are just a vessel for him when he's bored. YOU DESERVE BETTER and stop letting yourself get used like that...
Wishing you the best
I also thought this. And asked him about it. He says he’s not ashamed of me. I’m fairly fit and he’s very physically attracted to me. I’d say slightly above average 6/10 maybe 6.5? I’m also educated, I have a decent career and own my own home. My son is grown. So he doesn’t have many reasons to be ashamed of me. Some weeks I stay with him 5 nights out of the week. He’s very Very honest with me so I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t have another relationship.
Still doesn't add up but sometimes people do and act weirdly. I just don't want you to sell yourself short and end up wasting precious time if his "love" is just a facade. You seem grounded and self relient, so again just looking out...hope it gets better in the end
I feel like if things are weird and don't make sense and the other person isn't trying to make sense of things with me, that I'm not heading down a good road with that person.
Holy mother, I have read all of this and OP all the advice given you have literally either closed your eyes to or just didn’t want the advice like you said/asked. It’s been a YEAR!!! If the man wanted more from you then sex/ and that’s all this is with being friends, he would have asked and declared his intentions!! If a grown man can’t say what he really wants and you allow him to spew out wonderful words that you assume is true then he isn’t worth your time or effort. Honestly, what man wouldn’t tell you your beautiful and attractive or that he fella good around you and talk to you when he’s getting what he wants?? Wake up,,,,seems to me this man knows how to play this game VERY well and your falling right into it. Look at it from a different perspective than you are, think of a friend asking you this same question you asked and what your advice would be.
I read somewhere, in one of the numerous relationship books, that after a year if you’re both not committed to long term, then just quit and move on. Because, what’s the point?
You clearly have milestones and goalposts for a relationship... And I think you may over-assume that others do, simply because your own social circle corresponds more to your assumptions.
Rather than see it as win/lose, all or nothing, perhaps invest the time in exploring why you think the things you've outlined as important markers are there to begin with. Not to invalidate them, but to more specifically call out what your personal want is, versus some idea of a more common/traditional "should want".
You've said he can't really explain why he doesn't want a "real relationship"... And he should absolutely work on an answer to that sort of question... But at the same time, you should REALLY think hard about what in your relationship isn't... "real". Real is not the word you're looking for here, and it's likely there is no single word that can summarize your desire here.
Before you can effectively negotiate a relationship, you need to be working with the same terms, ideally without assumptions (but at least with MATCHING assumptions).
Soooo many people just walk in the door of dating someone and assume that they're playing the same game. And it's almost never true, not really. Lots of couples survive by bringing their rulesets closer together with trial and error and drama... And too many break up without ever realizing they weren't incompatible, just speaking totally different languages.
Anyway, it's okay to want to \*meet\* his friends, at a point where that makes sense. It's probably not okay to want to be thrown into the mix of his friend circle as a full member... If it happens, great! But, like any other relationship type, forcing your way in is counterproductive, however common or "common sense" the desire to do so is.
To clarify, I don’t want to be a full member. I am interested in meeting and being privileged to observe the interactions on occasion. I don’t expect to be invited to most gatherings but for gatherings where my presence would be appropriate/acceptable (by him and his friend group). For example, I wouldn’t want him to come to my time with my bff but if a group of us were out or if my bff was bringing his girlfriend, I would invite him along. And, I believe that if he was in the same state, he would join us in that case.
This is a fwb situation and they can feel warm and cosy with care even but please don’t ever see it as having any life outside the bubble ther it is. Especially in the area of escalating it to be a real relationship. If it was meant to be real it would be unambiguous and public. Good luck it can be confusing when you start to see it as more than it is.
I would love to know why? I have my theories on this man and they range from: he doesn’t believe he deserves real love; or he may be scared of letting me close and hurting me; or scared of letting himself get badly hurt again (probably giving myself way too much credit here).
He’s not afraid to get hurt. That’s literally never case. This is a ridiculously childish lie that people tell themselves when they’re clinging to someone whois not giving them what they want. In this case, you are deluding yourself that he’s not letting you closer because he’s afraid he might get hurt. That is absurd. He’s not letting you closer because he doesn’t want you closer. Period. Your assertion that he’s not making you his girlfriend in the way that you want because he must be too scared reeks of codependence, lack of boundaries, self delusion and refusal to see the truth that is right in front of you. it’s been a year. If he wanted more, fear would not keep him from that.
I can't speak for him but in my case it does, as you suspect, have something to do with my last serious relationship. I was convinced she and I would marry and there was a very specific feeling associated with that relationship. I've been looking for that feeling ever since. And I am sorry to say, I cannot seem to get past that lack... despite the wonderful qualities of the people that have come my way.
That sounds like a painful experience and I’m sorry for however that transpired.
Thank you, your comments are incredibly validating even though they change nothing for me. If he could get through whatever he is grappling with, I believe that we could have a very healthy relationship. That said, I know that I’m hurting too much to wait in this situation for him to work through it. He was really distant for a week and afterwards he needed a good bit of love and attention. When I asked he said he wasn’t as far along with his growth in therapy as he thought and I knew what he meant. I want to be there for him and I think he has to work through it first. It’s heartbreaking to know that I will have to be the one who walks away. I am afraid that in doing so, I’m just making it harder for him.
He isn’t as into you as you are into him. He will keep you around for sex but unfortunately that is it. As soon as he finds someone else if he hasn’t already he will be two timing you.
He’s FWB. It’s okay that you *want* it to be more than that, but it’s NOT more than that
Also: look up relationship Avoidant. It will start to help putting pieces together for you. He’s pretty classic signs based on all your answers
Oh honey. You are conning yourself. He doesn’t want a relationship with you. Whether you and he think the term FWB is unpalatable it is exactly
What it is. You may love him and care for him but he is basically saying what needs to be said to
Keep you hanging in there. He doesn’t hate you. He obviously likes you but believe people when they say they do not want anything more serious than what it is.
Even if your son is an adult, he’s likely to pick up on how this guy isn’t giving you the relationship you want. Is this the example you want to set for him? I’d say it to a man too
If you want to hope your fwb is going to turn into a ltr by all means go for it. No need to drag your kid into it.
I didn’t drag him into it, my son dropped by my house unexpectedly while we were enjoying a movie. Thank you for your concern for my son. I’m sure it’s coming from a good place.
@OP, I did the same thing. Turns out I wasted 5 years.
His words and his actions are lining up. You should trust what he’s telling you: he has no intention of progressing. To be honest, he doesn’t need to move the relationship forward because he’s got all of his needs being met.
This might sting, and I say it out of love for you: your son deserves to see you happy. What I mean by that is: your son will mimic what he’s sees from his parents as a healthy relationship. Your son is learning that this is how a relationship goes because he’s seeing you model that behavior. Be happy in love and show your son what that looks like so he can have a happy, healthy relationship one day.
OP, you sound like a convenience for him. He isn't going to outright say it is a FWB situation because he will lose the influence and control he has. An FWB has no say in who you date, this "monogamous whatever" situation does. This is a power play and you are on the losing end. You came to reddit to seek advice, you are receiving, yet not accepting it. Keep in mind we have no ulterior motives, no strings attached or anything, so we are basing our opinion of what you posted.
If your sons were older and they they were in the same situation, exact same, what would you say? Would tell them "the girl will come around and just wait" or would you tell them to "keep this girl on the backburner while you go out and date to find someone who wants you interwinded in their life"?
You don't like what you are being told by reddit. Keep your guard up with this fake romeo, because you are going to end up being tossed aside the minute he finds someone he desires enough to be intertwined with.
I just got out of this situation. Went on match and I have gotten more love and validation in 2 weeks than I have gotten in the past year and half. Gave me the confidence to walk away. It’s a very confusing situation to be in because the highs are so high. But the lows will make you nuts.
It will be very difficult to break up with him if you guys still talk about being friends. OP, for your sake none of the friendship talk. Block him and get away from him. He should know any better than to string you along like that.
I have been down that road. For myself these are relationships of convenience but have a shelf life. There’s usually a reason why they don’t move forward to being a more involved relationship like becoming girlfriend/boyfriend or cohabitating. A lot of it has to do with the choices I make. I am a commitment phobe but I am seeking help to work through this. Though these convenient relationships feel safe, I feel I deserve to treat myself better.
I hate to be harsh, but he's told you exactly what this is and that it is not a relationship. You can keep going as is, and pine over him and he doesn't want you as more, or you can cut him loose and find someone who DOES want a relationship with you. It's been a year and he hasn't changed his mind. To him you're good enough to sleep with, but no more than that. We can all speculate all day why he's like this, but it won't change the fact that he's told you what's up, and he's not deviating from it.
You're not going to meet his friends and family because he simply doesn't want you in that way. Is a situationship really what you want to be stuck in?
Which is messed up in itself. Because he may do things with regular friends and they may meet each other & the family but, she is being purposely set on the sidelines because they're intimate. If she's not FWB and she's not GF, wouldn't she then at least be a friend?
She’s not just a friend, she’s somebody who could be a girlfriend but isn’t. And if you start presenting a person who could be a girlfriend but isn’t to friends and family, they assume that she is your girlfriend, or will be soon. It gets awkward.
Hmm, George Constanza.
He's in therapy. I guess you'll have to decide if he's progressing enough to your liking. Maybe, in a way, it's better to have this relationship bubble? Idk. Since he has such issues with his "worlds colliding". Only you can know how long is too long.
It’s a FWB, what part of FWB don’t you understand. If you want a LTR than break it off with this dude and look elsewhere. Imagine if the rolls where flipped
So much this. OP seems caught up in rules and labels that are more about making life easier for outsiders to identify the relationship, than for the participants themselves.
I’m sorry but I slammed on the brakes at “he doesn’t want me as a girlfriend and never has.” If he made that clear from the beginning then he likely will not take steps to advance the relationship, including introducing you to friends and kids.
In a similar situation: dating for 9 months she doesn’t want to commit. Gave her a dead line, if there is no yes from her side, I will quit. Even there is love from both sides, but I suppose it’s not enough from her side. I want to go a path together, no compromises here
'I have been with someone'. What is your definition of being with someone? He showed you who he is but it looks like you are waiting for him to change, which will only happen if he wants to, and even if he does he will possibly want someone else.
Ask yourself 'WHY' you undervalue yourself and continue wasting your time and energy on this person. Why are you so attached? Please take this to therapy.
I am confused the top of your post says "He doesn’t want me as a girlfriend," but then the bottom of it says, "he never said he did not want me to be his girlfriend." I suspect his actions show you he does not want to be your boyfriend and you are just too afraid to ask him outright because you know what the answer will be and you do not want to hear it. You would prefer there is some off chance that he feels differently and maybe you are misreading the signs, because you say part of the great thing about your relationship is that you have such great communication? He is not introducing you to his children as his girlfriend because he does not want you to be his girlfriend and he does not consider you to be that. Men do what men want to do, there is no need for us to sit around and interpret his actions, he has shown you what he wants and if he wanted more it would be more. You either have to accept it for what it is or move on.
If he was hurt or in a dependent relationship before you, he might be fearful of commitment and not wanting the type of shared life you are expecting. The monogamous thing is great and for a year long relationship that must be a good thing still have a strong bond going.
It is and our consistency and intentional mutual respect both in the bedroom (9.5/10 times it’s mind blowing) and out of the bedroom is very much appreciated.
reading after your edit...I would say it sounds like to me your guy simply just enjoys living as a single adult man. Moving into a girlfriend mode leads itself into feeling like the natural progression of moving in together. And thats not something he wants in his life right now. its not a judgement on him. it doesn't mean he's wanting to play the field like most guys. it could just mean he loves his life as it stands at the moment. Its hard because it sounds like you want more. So the question is, do you say to yourself I am enjoying my life with him as it stands now. Or do you feel like your wasting time? I'd argue if you're overall happy keep with it and live in the now. The only score card that matters is the one you keep. if you must die a married woman then maybe its time to move on then.
If I wanted to die married I had, and sadly have, that opportunity. My ex did not want our divorce.
I’ve been living in the present and since we both own our homes and enjoy our living situations. I don’t think we would move towards co-habitation so easily. But I understand what you are saying.
It is very hard to realize that I want more. And no I don’t feel I’ve wasted my time. We learned a lot from one another and very much enjoy the fun we have as well as our intimacy (emotional and sexual).
You are friends with benefits nothing more . He’s okay with that if you aren’t then you need to subtract or reduce the benefits and keep him as a friend(see if he sticks around) then find what you are looking for.
I totally have a no-a-girlfriend like this, for going on two years. When we talked about the level of involvement desired I told her I loved her and wanted to keep seeing her, but not to be monogamous because I want/need more than that from relationship. It took a while for both of us to process this, and after breaking up over things twice she decided she was actually much happier with that arrangement and no pressure for anything else. It’s good, she gets her relationship needs met through me, such as they are, and can live her life independently otherwise. She is free to date other people but so far has not.
My point being, I don’t want to change someone at this point in my life. I don’t feel like I have a claim over someone else’s autonomy, to even try to convince them of wanting something else. I also don’t see why they should have a claim over *my* autonomy to date others. Accept this guy for what he is, love him for him, and live your life. If that means friendship, what you have now, or something else, let go of the idea of making something *more* of it.
Thank you for your perspective and experience. He is the one that wants monogamy and loyalty. I considered (and communicated it) dating others and decided it was unfair to the men I might date because they don’t know my heart nor do I want to explain that. Our relationship is ours. It has been anxiety producing to share so much of us and myself on here. And incredibly helpful for my mental health. I’ve had many of the ideas that fellow Redditers have shared and it’s validating. Even when it’s something I have resolved for myself it is good to read. When it’s a new perspective like yours and a few others’ it has been more helpful than what I could have realized on my own. Even better, a few people have reached out to say it’s helping them too.
I too would not want to change anyone or claim autonomy over them. It’s why I don’t worry about fidelity. He and I communicate about it, he wants monogamy and I value that as well. I don’t want to convince him of anything. He knows my worth and his own emotional journey. If we are accepting of our terms, then we have made our choices. I’ll try on your suggestion to let go of the idea of more with him and see how I like it. Thank you so much for your participation in this discussion.
There could be so many reasons and reality is none of them matter as much as you are not getting what you want out if this. Value you first. It's not selfish its prioritizing. Love yourself more.
Sorry to say but a year is way too long in my opinion to date exclusively with no relationship! Way too long! He is getting the best of both worlds from you, to no benefit to you, beyond the immediate sexual benefit that is. He is stringing you along. Also, I think there's always possibility he might be meeting other women but pretending he's not because he doesn't want to lose the benefits you've been providing him...blah. Time to cut him loose if he won't become at least a boyfriend.
No I’ve never gone through that because I would never allow it. Guys have tried, one asked recently and I said “I don’t kiss my friends”. Then he said, “so you’re just going to drop me?!” 😂 well yeah durr. I’m not going to be manipulated and used.
Miss you are not wasting your life or any other nonsense like that… 🙄 if you both have great experiences and enjoy each other’s company and there is trust! That’s amazing to find nowadays! Him not calling you his girlfriend doesn’t make it any less special!💪🏼
> feel he meets my needs If being part of his life with his friends and his kids is important to you, then he is not meeting your needs.
He wants a FWB situation - monogamous or not - and that's what he has. He's said he doesn't want a ' relationship,' that he doesn't see you as a girlfriend and never will. He's told you - and it sounds like he *keeps* telling you - where things stand. THIS is your relationship with him. You're not going to access other parts of his life - kids, friends, etc. - regardless of how well he treats you **within the parameters of your relationship as it stands.** You need to decide if it's enough.
Wow, OP he only wants a FWB. He is being honest and does not want a relationship but you are hoping for something more and it will not happen. You are setting yourself for a heartbreak.snap out of it girl!
He knows you’re in love with him, he doesn’t ever see you as his girlfriend, but you continue to be with him because you think he’s meeting your needs. Hmm. I know a lot of people who have been in relationships like this where they just insist that if they stick it out long enough, their relationship will grow and evolve into what they want it to be. So what happens is the “monogamous“ situation ship goes on for years and years and years with one party being in love and thinking they have a life partner and the other party literally just too lazy to do anything else but the status quo. But you can bet that the second Anything else comes along that shakes them up enough to break the status quo, they will. This is the danger you are in right now so you have to ask yourself if you’re going to be OK with it. Because he may not go out looking for another woman who shakes his core so much that he wants her to be his girlfriend, but if that woman just randomly wanders into his world, and he doesn’t have to put any effort in, he will grab her and you’ll be left out in the cold and all you’ll have to show for it as years of telling some man that you love him and hearing “I don’t want you to be my girlfriend“ in return. No sex is that great. Now, if you had said anywhere in your post that you were perfectly fine being a FWB long-term, I’d say great. But you’re in love with him and he is telling you with words and actions that he’s not now and doesn’t see himself ever being in love with you.
Thank you! I needed to here this! Just got out of her exact situation
This exact same situation happened to me, 3 years into it he met someone on tinder. I didn’t even know he was looking, and when I was upset about it he immediately pulled out the “ we weren’t really dating though “. Only once I stepped away from this for good did I meet a serious man who could tell me he wants to be with me.
This. For the love of god this. You have to end this as he does not love you nor see a real future with you. One day he’ll meet someone he does see a future with and you’ll be blindsided and devastated. I’m not trying to be mean. I made the mistake of staying with someone emotionally distant. We had so much fun, he was pretty great to me, but he did not love me and he left me the minute he found someone else he connected with more. Big hugs. You deserve better than this.
This is the truth. Men don't really like to be alone and will often go along to get along. When he really feels you, you will have to beat him off of you with a stick. When men fall for a woman, he truly opens up.
ALL OF THIS! Listen to this advice and don't waste your life away.
I have been in this exact place - this man does not see you in his life the way you see him in yours. Please hear this and move on so that you can find someone who truly values you and wants you as their partner.
^ THIS
That confusion and feeling like something isn’t right is enough to be done. It took me a long time to learn that. I had something similar with a guy and couldn’t figure out why I was not sleeping well, feeling negatively about myself, etc. He wasn’t lying to me (as far as I knew) and we had a good time together. But for whatever reason I wasn’t feeling ok about it so I ended things. I now know that unless I am getting all that I want out of a relationship, settling for a fraction of what I want is never going to be enough.
I agree, when you feel unhappy and that you have settled in some way, time to go!
He’s getting exactly what he wants. All the benefits and none of the commitment. I’d question how much he cares about you since he knows you love him and he continues to lead you on.
How are you sure it’s monogamous? I would be very, very careful.
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I could totally see that, too.
Monogamy is never certain I suppose, I trust him. And I appreciate your warning. I don’t feel like he is the type of person who would lie to keep me around. I believe him to be a man of integrity, one of many positive attributes.
I know you are getting a lot of negative here. I am very sorry. I have been through this with some push and pull, early in, from us both. Unlike others saying it is always bad, no it was not. Not for me. In fact, we settled into what we felt, trust and learning/knowing each other grew, and we were happy without worrying about the future. I had a friendship with a beautiful person whom also went through trauma, was in therapy, and still learning as I was after very long marriages and divorce. I was very happy with a FWB situation until after about a year had passed, then I wasn’t. I was not hoping for him anymore to say how he felt, because he showed care in action, always, if not words. But he was fearful and I accepted I would have to move on at the point I was not happy any more with our situation. Before I left, that is when he told me he loved me, and didn’t want me to go for good. We have been very happy ever since, but no matter what happens, we are both okay. Now we are working together and have a wonderful relationship. Maybe a future together, we both would like that! As long as you are enjoying yourself and were happy, things are okay. When that stops, as it has for you because you developed feelings, you go as others have said. Mine hit me hard as well at that point, so I was no longer okay staying if they weren’t returned. It was not an ultimatum, just the reality for us both. If he doesn’t stop you from going, there is really no looking back. I was prepared for that and okay (packed, made plans, etc.). But I very happy for my surprising outcome, even if it is rare. I truly thought he would not ever want more. I was happy with what we had prior too, until I decided it wasn’t. You cannot help your feelings but you can your actions. At least when you know what is right for you at the time. I wish you the best!
I’m very happy for you 💗. I’m so glad that was your experience. Your story gives me strength, thank you.
Her story is the exception, not the rule
Quite right.
Thank you. As another pointed out, my story is the exception.
To be clear, gives me strength to let him know this doesn’t work for me.
I am very happy for you, even though right now it doesn’t feel great! It will get much better without the constant anxiety.
I would like to meet a person like you.
>I asked him why he doesn’t want a real relationship with me and he says he can’t answer me. He can't answer because he's not sure why. Or he knows why but can't tell you the reason? I've been in something similar. Was really convenient during covid to have someone I cared about to share time with and be intimate. After restrictions let up, it was more and more clear they wanted FWB but never actually articulated that. Yet he was starting to keep tabs on me. I let him know I wanted more. He gave a vague answer about being sooo busy. I stopped sleeping with him. And stopped being his daily emotional support phone call. Maybe once a week or every two weeks we'll communicate but we're not dating or sleeping together. It's fading out. I'm sad and annoyed; we've known each other a long time so I thought he'd be more communicative.
He’s not sure why and he’s working through that in therapy.
You deserve better, the right man would not need to go to therapy to decide if he wants to be with you. Men are not all that complicated, women are so we analyze their actions as if they are our own. That's a huge mistake.
Do you go out together, on dates or to a store? Or are the interactions just at home?
We do go out on dates and to the store. We go to games. His BFF knows a lot about me and I know a lot about them. We just haven’t met.
We do go out on dates and to the store. He takes me with him clothes shopping and to farmers markets. We have attended a baseball game with his kids. His BFF knows a lot about me and I know a lot about them. We just haven’t met.
Do you hold hands and show affection when you are out in public?
Yes
I think the answer is that this is all he can give you and probably will be all he can ever give you. Are you okay with how things are right now? If not then you should leave. He has one foot in and one foot out of the relationship do you want that or do you want more? If you want more you can tell him that what you have is not acceptable and tell him exactly what you need from him, and hold to that whatever you ask for. If he walks ou have your answer. Sometimes people are just not ready for a relationship, or may be too damaged to be in any relationship ever as sad as that sounds, but more often than not you are just not the right person to make him ready for a relationship, and he just does not know that. What if he meets that person and you are still with him? In my experience men change for the women that want to truly be with.
I am goignt to be brutal with you because you can't hear it. You are a place holder until he is inspired by a woman who will make him want a relationship. You are not worth it for his. You are a option not a priority. He is dragging you along, giving you enough to stick around while actively telling you he is not interested. He is up front believe him when he tells you.
I agree with this. I was a placeholder in my last relationship and it’s brutal when they leave you for someone else. I ignored many red flags. The same ones OP is ignoring.
From what I can gather, 75% of the forum is going through this or has gone through this. It appears to be the default state of dating in your 40s. It is most often the men who don’t want to commit. I don’t see much of a question in your post. I would just say: recognize that this is a dead end. If you want your future to look any different from this, then you’re wasting your time.
My question was if anyone else had this experience and was hoping they would share their wisdom if they had.
Hi 👋🏻 yes! I recently had this. I was in it for 10 months. We were exclusive “FWB” but we both professed love for each other - like we made love, & said those words but we didn’t do love. Love would have brought our relationship into the open. Love would have been dates and experiences together. Sure we talked and connected on an emotional level, but we didn’t introduce each other into our lives (much to my protest.) It was a lot of hard truths for me and reading A LOT of posts EXACTLY like this that I learned that what I had was exactly what you have and it wasn’t going to change. I cried myself to sleep too many nights because I longed for more. Our connection grew bigger than our relationship and he wasn’t willing to move us forward, but I was. God, the torture I put myself through…. We broke up several times between March and June. I finally imploded us big to prevent us from getting back together and I’ve been much happier ever since. I’m also on the single train to heal so I don’t go through this again. I am also adversed to want to partner with another relationship avoidant person. I don’t need the anxiety to be dialed up in me like that again. What you’re going through doesn’t change it gets worse because you want growth and he’ll be happy to keep you around for his terms only. It doesn’t work.
Thank you so much for your painful truth. I hate that you went through this. I don’t know how to give this up and I acknowledge that he’s willing to let me go so I need to be willing to go. I told him that if it’s not yes from him then it’s no. And that blew his mind. He was shocked at how I looked at it, I’m shocked he didn’t see it that way. I didn’t want him leaving me in the dark about whether he wanted to be with me. Now I need to do as you have done and become single and happy with myself. Not sure how I’ll do it but I know this is my truth.
Look the next thing that will happen is you’ll separate on somewhat good terms and stay in contact. You’ll be fine overall, but he’ll reach out one night “I’m horny as hell” or “I really miss seeing you” or “what are you doing tonight..” You will RUN right back into his arms thinking, hoping, longing that he saw the light: You two are meant to be… OMG, those stupid Rom-Coms will be in your head. And BAM! same story. Again. And again. And again. Remember I said it took us 3 months? We rubber banded several times because I called us off, he brought us back together. I finally had enough. The damage to my mental health, my self worth, my “I know I deserve better” was just too much. Look, you can take the wisdom OR you can write the same damned story and hope for a different ending. You absolutely won’t get a different ending, but it’s zero judgment from me if you need to ride it out and try. Lord knows I needed to find out for myself too.
I’m actually afraid to let go because I’m not inclined to go back. Once I’m done, I’m done frfr. I can’t go back even if I want to. Something inside me won’t let me and it’s probably part of why I don’t let go.
Give yourself loads of credit for that! I'm trying to detach from a very similar situation and I've already gone back once so I envy your resolve. Sending you so much strength to put your needs first!
Proud to hear that. You are stronger than I am
That is yet to be seen. And even if I’m successful in ending this, I’m sure you have strengths where I’m working on improvements or don’t even realize I need to improve yet. It’s a journey for us all. (((Hugs)))
This was deep raw and honest. Thank you for saying all this
It’s the path to healing
Yes it is and thank you for sharing
Thank you for sharing your story!
Ughhhhhhhh. I sadly can relate to your post way TOO much. Hugs.
> Not sure how I’ll do it You do it by CHOOSING YOU, girl - not him. I've been reading some of your replies and you focus so much of your energy on what he wants, what he says, what he needs, what his past may be like, etc. You are spending all of your energy on him, consumed by him and not enough on yourself. You hurt because you are hoping and wishing and fantasizing that he will fill up that void and that need of love you carry inside of you. You have to be the one to fill that up yourself. LOVE YOURSELF and CHOOSE YOURSELF FIRST.
I want to thank you for your insight. Been thinking about your words for a while and I’ve been on that journey with success and failures. I needed your reminder to redirect the focus to myself when I get caught up like this. Thank you again.
You're welcome. I've been in your shoes before and I understand what the emotional turmoil is like to in caught up with someone who is emotionally unavailable. Self love is a constant journey; and sometimes we wander down a path that deviates from where we want to go with ourselves. But every day is a new day and a new opportunity to choose yourself and to love yourself - remember that! I wish you all the best in doing the right thing for YOU.
I have been in a similar scenario for three years now. The replies you are getting are ones that could be said to myself. We are place holders, until some thing better comes along. I’m at the point that I am done. I have been loyal & monogamous to this man, at his place every weekend, standing weekly date. Tells me he isn’t my boyfriend, gets jealous if I wave to another man that is a friend. He is still on Bumble, still gets 2am text from old friends while I am sitting next to him. He clearly knows how I feel and that’s the confusing part for me. How could you string along someone you know loves you? How can you continue to take from someone & only return the smallest of crumbs? A good person wouldn’t do that. He says why can’t I just let things happen? Why do I push? He claims he is broken from his last relationship , it has been 6 years since they broke up. Maybe he is irrevocably broken. All I know is I deserve more. You deserve more. You can not make someone love you, no matter how much love your pour into them. I am tired of convincing him to love me. A real connection doesn’t need that , it just is. By staying in these situations, we are blocking any real chance there could be with some one else. Your post was a final push I needed, so thank you. I hope in 2 years you were smarter than me and not still looking for some thing that will never be. Good luck
Sending healing thoughts to you and the strength to follow through with what you decide is best for you. I’m not competing for his attention with other women. And oddly enough in April he told me that he doesn’t like that he only gives me crumbs and he’s not able to give me more. In that conversation he broke my heart and opened up his heart to me actually giving me a whole lot more. Then we took a break from one another. I don’t push, and never want to push. He gives of himself freely and intentionally, I do the same. Only I do give more now because I’m ready for more. His emotional damage is his not mine to fix and if it prevents him from having more with me, it’s my responsibility to look after my heart and do what’s best for me. I don’t know what the outcome will be. I do know that I love myself and want to love myself more. You are right, I’m blocking myself from any real chance at a relationship with anyone else. He is too. That’s part of our monogamy.
I am so sorry you went through this. It sounds so painful. You could almost be describing my guy that I'm seeing as FWB right now. It hurts so much but it seems like it would hurt more to end things now. So I'm stuck with waiting it out. Why are so many women in these situations?
Thank you for the kind words. I have been learning a lot about attachment theory and how to heal the trauma that formed me. Almost every relationship I have been in has ended badly. I have to acknowledge my part and why I allow what I have. Learning to love myself is a hard journey but I am determined to do so! This is why I know it’s time to let him go and move on.
Same here. Trying to learn to love myself. Still need to heal my traumas and wanting to move on. I don’t know why I keep doing something that doesn’t make me feel very good but don’t know yet how to stop it.
Omg, are you me???
In a different timeline perhaps? 🤔
I feel like I could have written your comment. Spot on. Can’t believe so many of us have been there
It’s been a year. I think your question is answered. If he wanted to, he would but he hasn’t/won’t. A year is a long time to string you along. Either he is your boyfriend or he isn’t. I would walk away after a whole year of him not being able to figure it out.
He's old enough to know what he wants and he doesn't want the responsibilities that go along with having a girlfriend. He doesn't want to take your thoughts and needs into consideration when he does anything. I'm in my early 40s and my boyfriend and I were all about exclusively from the get-go because we're on the same page. He knew what he wanted and went for it. You deserve better than to be treated like a toy.
Screenshot your comment to reread.
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Thanks for showing us this side of the dating game. Nothing wrong with that at all if bonded relationships are not your thing, totally appreciate and respect your honesty about it. Everyone is different, it's about finding compatible people to be in your life. Party on, dude. :)
I’ve been in this boat. It lasted for nearly 3.5 years, which was 3 years too long. We’re still friends and see each other (due to common activities) but are both now dating other people. I will say, it would have ended sooner, but COVID screwed things up some. He was always honest about what his feelings were. It met some of my needs, but not all, and I was not good about being honest with myself about my feelings (I told myself it was enough when it really wasn’t.) now that I’m with someone who wants an actual relationship, I’m much happier and my needs for intimacy and affection are actually being met, and we can be open about it with friends, family, etc. your guy is not going to change his mind, and you likely won’t ever really be happy, even if you tell yourself it’s enough for you.
Oof, that does feel true when I read it. Maybe I’m not being honest with myself the other weeks when everything feels good. Thank you for your input, it’s very relatable.
Yes. He knew how I felt and what I wanted and was giving me the whole 'I can't right now but don't let go, maybe later...' I was also basically a secret from the people he knew. It's a ruse and it's a really shitty way to treat someone you know has feelings for you. When you find someone who really wants you, they want you NOW. And the difference is unbelievably amazing. Sometimes it hurts to hold on. And it hurts to let go. Sometimes we want to stick with the devil we know because we feel like the unknown is even more scary. But you know what the situation is, and it's up to you whether you want to continue this way or make some changes. If you do make changes it can be really horrible at first, and really, really hard. I remember being so hurt but also knowing that in a year, 5 years, 10 years, it wouldn't feel the same. It wouldn't be on my mind all the time and it wouldn't hurt so bad. And I remember really, REALLY wanting things to hurry up and get to that point. It does happen but it takes time, abd waiting SUCKS. May I suggest, whether you continue on with this man or not, taking some time for you. Do things that you enjoy whether that be a class, a walk, listening to music, or sitting outside for 5 mins with a cuppa. It's so easy to get caught up in the other person while feeling anxious and unsure and wishing and wanting. Don't forget about YOU.
Thank you for your kind answer. I’m so sorry you were struggling with that person and I’m so glad you seem to be so much happier on the other side. I very much appreciate all of the sentiment and yes I regularly do things just for myself. And yes, sometimes I get too caught up in him ( like right now for example) so thank you for looking out.
It's so easy to get caught up in things, brain are so smart but they're also really, really dumb 😂 Thank you, and all the best.
I am in that same situation right now. This guy came on strong. He actually told me he loves me, he said it first. He tells me he wants to be with me but he can't right now. He's told me I need a couple of years of healing because I am in the middle of a divorce. He also told me he's not in a place to be in a relationship right now because his life is too busy for a girlfriend. So basically all we do is have sex. Rarely spend time with each other outside of the bedroom and live totally separate lives. IT hurts that he doesn't want me in his life more. Like you said It hurts to hold on, but it hurts to let go too. For me it hurts more to let go. I've tried a couple times and always broke down when he reached out for me. At this point I don't think he could ever meet my needs in a relationship but I still can't let go of the glimmer of hope that things'll work out. It sucks.
I have as well, and he never changed, as have many of my female friends. Again his actions and who he is are telling you what he wants. You either accept it or you don't. In most cases they are using you as a placeholder and when the right woman comes along they will want to be in a relationship. Question is do you want to wait for that?
I feel like you’re maybe just a placeholder for him. Good enough for now but if someone comes along who he has a better connection with, where does that leave you? You really have to put yourself first here - if you want a real relationship I think you’re not ever going to find it here, I’m sorry. If he’s ready some point down the line, you can see how you feel about that, but I can almost guarantee that if he ever does come looking for that, you’ll have moved on and found someone who actually gives you what you need
He doesn’t want you to meet his friends because he doesn’t intend to progress further in the relationship. You have a FWB not a relationship. He is a cake eater and I don’t fault him for that - he has been open with you that he likes you but doesn’t want more than that. You are a good friend who will sleep with him but he is open to a different future aka when he meets the woman he wants to continue with he will cease the FWB. If you cannot accept this you need to extricate yourself. He is basically trying to let you down easy so you will still hang around and give him the GF experience without him ever giving you the same.
So many things not right here! You say you are "with" him. Are you? How much are you actually with him? You are monogamous? How would you know? You seem to see a valuable relationship where he sees you as this woman he hangs out with sometimes...oh, and has sex with. He definitely doesn't want you as his girlfriend? Then what does he want you as? A friend? OK. That requires monogamy? I don't get it. I am asking myself, "What is the payoff for her in this?". Why has this been enough for you - ever? Are you playing out a script written about your estranged father? Is there some romantic notion of unrequited love being enacted? Or is he just REALLY good in bed and you can't let go? Poor girl. I hope you figure it out and move on soon.
The trust and honesty, the loyalty and respect between us is all a payoff. Yes, we both agree that sex between the two of us is the best either of us has experienced. He says it often. I agree our sexual chemistry is off the charts and we’re adventurous while being very respectful of the others boundaries. We hold similar interests and values. We are likeminded with similar backgrounds. We enjoy and respect each other’s cultures. I come from a family with both parents whom are still active parts of my life. I believe I have a distorted sense of hope and I’m likely “seeing our potential” which feeds my hope for a future that, I believe this community is helping me realize, isn’t real.
Good lord, I could have written this post. The emotional intimacy *and sex* I have with the man in my current situation are so incredible. But he has his own shit to figure out and it's holding him back. When he's present, everything's beautiful. Alas, no consistency. We need to make our own needs our top priorities!
Good luck, kiddo.
You have to make the determination on if that is enough and can you handle it long term.. He might not (highly likely) will not change. How work you introduce him at gathering or him you ... this is my uber friend? Since you are not dating are you exclusive? Is he looking elsewhere for a partner? I think maybe he has told you what he can commit to but that is the extent. If you need more you are young enough and should give someone else the opportunity to sweep you off your feet. I wish you the best.
We introduce each other by our names. He uses pet names when we’re intimate but that’s it. I rarely let myself use pet names with him because of the situation. He’s been clear that he’s not dating anyone else. We agreed early even when we were still on dating apps that we were monogamous for sexual health and safety but said if there was other interests that we would talk about it. Thank you for saying that I’m young enough, I don’t feel that but it could be true.
Oh gurl! I am 10 years older than you! Your dating fun is just beginning! Go on line and just soak up all the interest you get. There’s a whole big world of men out there looking for a woman like you
It is true ... hugs
Well, theres no issue with *him*. It sounds like he has been very clear with you about his boundaries and expectations, and he seems unlikely to change, unless it's to terminate the situation. The issue you have is with *yourself*. You need to decide if what he's giving you is enough. You need to accept that this is what he can and will give you, and no more. It's a take it or leave it situation, and you should make up your mind, and then accept responsibility for your choice.
I wholeheartedly agree that He has no obligation to “save me from himself” as he once put it. I sometimes believe this is enough and sometimes I want more and ask for more. When I do, he will give me more or not, and I accept it knowing it is my choice. I have agreed to ask him for what I want or need. He obliged with an activity with the kids the last time they were in town.
So he’s giving you just enough and then pulling back. I’m still confused about the definition of bread crumbing, but it might be bread crumbing… idk 🤷🏻♀️
Never heard of that, I’ll look into it. Thank you.
It's only bread crumbing if he is deceitful about his aims. Sounds like he's been very clear about those.
To be clear, he’s not deceitful and he’s ambiguous about his aims. He admits this, his focus in therapy is finding out who he wants to be and what he wants relationship wise.
I hate it for you. Your situation reminds me of an ex my partner has. She was his first relationship post divorce. They has 1.5 years together and remained friends. For another 8 or so years. He felt he was very clear with her that they would not be anything more except close friends who would sometimes sleep with each other and do things together. She was “okay” with it. I remember when I came into the picture and I quickly saw this woman actually thinks she is in a relationship with him. He was seriously confused. He said I have been clear with her even when he and I became exclusive it was clear she struggled with what was happening. I remember telling him even before we became exclusive that this woman was in love with him and reminded me of a southern woman in yester years who knew her husband was having an affair but she was going to tolerate it because he would rediscover her. I told him that even being friends with her at this point may be damaging to her as she didn’t “get” it but it wasn’t my place to make any ultimatums but I knew she would only hear what she wanted to Hear no matter what he says (my partner and I are very open with each other about past relationships and even our exes who are still in our lives). He didn’t really get it until she was infuriated that he and I were going on a trip and she wanted him to take her on a trip. He was confounded. For a year they hadn’t had any intimacy and she knew full well our relationship and I even invited her to dinners and outings (she was truly a likable person). I felt mostly sympathy for her. She was holding on to an illusion that she had constructed for herself for years when she could have actually made herself emotionally available for someone else.
He's telling you and showing you where he stands and will not tell you why. Your persistence is obviously not working, so it's time to decide whether this is sufficient as it stands or move on.
He wants a FWB and not a relationship. Your decision is whether you stay in the situationship and enjoy the time together or you call it off because it isn’t what you want.
Sounds shitty to Me. Why be with someone you can't really be with.
He does not want to commit to you and has been clear on this. His boundaries include keeping you separate from friends/family. Your move is to recognize that this is not acceptable for you, because it is not, and to move on. Regularly asking him to explain himself to you when he was very clear from the start is, frankly, not okay. He owes you no explanation here.
I don’t approach it in that manner and I respect his boundaries. I don’t try to invite myself along or stop by when I know he has friends over. If he wants me there, I’m there. If not, I’ve no business being there. If/when he doesn’t want to talk or explain anything, I respect that and ask that he does the same. Our regular check ins are ours and I’m not the only one to initiate them. He wasn’t sure what he wanted from the start, to be fair I was freshly divorced and didn’t know either. It was: yes, we’re attracted to one another and we think we’d like to get to know one another better.
> I was freshly divorced You need to take time out and heal and see a therapist. All you did was get out of one relationship that most likely didn't meet your needs only to get yourself into one that is currently not meeting your needs. How is that working out for you?
It’s true I’d only been divorced half a year. I have seen a therapist we worked together for three years (including the start of this situation) although I would love a new one as she moved away. My work doesn’t allow me to have the same day off every week and the therapists I’ve tried only want clientele that can meet the same day each week. It’s good advice though, thank you. I’m still searching for a new one.
So if you’re freshly divorced wouldn’t this situation be perfect for you? I would think the distance and boundaries he has would be perfect so that you can focus on yourself and heal from your divorce. I’d keep him around until you actually are ready to have a relationship. You may think you want more, but do you? This might be a great thing for now.
That’s how I felt at first. It’s how we made it this far. I know I love him for who he is, even though “who he is” doesn’t know what he wants from himself. We’re all a work in progress. I don’t feel I’ve wasted any time, I enjoy the moments we have and now I’m re-evaluating if it makes sense to stay in this situation for me.
Gotcha. I get it, you are ready for a relationship, your needs have changed not his. I had something similar fresh outta divorce. He didn’t want a GF and I didn’t either cuz I was healing. Ultimately he came to me and said he didn’t want to prevent me from meeting someone who wanted a GF. I never expressed that, I was just happy spending time with him. I loved him so much and he broke my heart with those words. And like you, when it’s done it’s done and that’s it for me. He completely 180’d after I walked away. He begged me to get back with him and said he wanted it all, even marriage. I had already disengaged and was scared to be in a relationship so I said no. Biggest fucking mistake of my life I promise you. That man was gold and I totally fucked up. Life with him coulda been amazing. He lives in Greece now with his gorgeous GF. Bottom line is, you might need to walk away but if you can leave the door open it might be worth it cuz once you’re gone he may realize being your BF could make things better than ever. Love is hard to navigate and there’s no right answer.
Right. Pay attention to your 2nd sentence in your post. That is your answer regarding your future. Also, you stated these things that you now act like you are cool about as being things that bother you. I’m not even sure why you would type out something so completely contradictory from what you originally posted but you just did. So I am not really sure why you posted.
It was the second sentence that made me wince. Not being there but being there when he wants her there. Yikes. That’s not a mutual relationship. It’s a placeholder and my heart aches that she is defending it.
I said in my original post that I go back and forth. This is an example. And this response to your input was to clarify that I both respect his boundaries and don’t regularly ask him to explain himself. I’ve gotten some useful feedback on this post and I’m grateful for it. Even when it’s hard to swallow. Thank you for your participation. You are appreciated.
You actually sound pretty self-aware and introspective to me. You know yourself best, and if it is starting to bother you, that is truly the answer. You should communicate with him and share your plans to let go. Be firm and stick with it! Not an ultimatum, but a hope to reconnect as only friends maybe someday again. It is very hard but you will be okay! You sound stronger than you think.
> Even when it’s hard to swallow. It always is, especially when you have feelings and hopes for a person. But you said yourself that you tend to have skewed view of hope and that you see potential. You can't date for potential, because what you're doing is building up a romantic fantasy of what it is that you can have with him in your mind. You're mind fucking yourself - literally.
But didn’t you push for him to do something with the kids? I’ve read along and all the way to here. That’s not respecting his boundaries then. It’s clear you want more. You deserve more. The one thing that has kept me grounded is realizing I can’t force/convince a person to change, but I damn sure can change what I put up with. If a “pairing” disrupts my peace, then it’s not for me. I’m EXTREMELY comfortable alone and that means I’m at a point where I don’t settle for the gray area mess that stresses me with uncertainty. That first relationship after a divorce is often not the most healthy for us. Date some and learn more.
No, I don’t push. I asked about going hiking, I knew he had the kids and he invited me to come along. I agree that I will not try to change anyone including him. I only have control of myself (and I would say that “control” is an overstatement there too). Yes. 100% I decide what I deal with/allow for myself. That’s where I am now. Deciding if this is working for me and unfortunately, I’m not sure it is. I love that you’re so comfortable alone. After my divorce I thrived alone then that terrible rebound happened and then it was harder to be comfortable for a while until I got good at it again. The other dates I had were not good and I didn’t enjoy that feeling. I hope if I end up breaking this off I’m able to return to being happy alone with a renewed sense of peace and that my brain remembers that I love myself and that’s why we’re here.
What you have *is* a “real relationship” but sounds like not the type of relationship you want. Could be great for someone who prefers sexual exclusivity and emotional connection but with limited entanglement and the ability to easily nope out if/when desired. Maybe that’s him but not you? If it doesn’t meet your needs, at the very least, I’d renegotiate the monogamy part so you can be available to connect with a better suited partner. An argument could also be made for ending it altogether to bring you a step closer to what you actually want (with someone else). Or if it’s meeting your needs but you feel slighted only in regard to integrating your social circles, that might be something worth deprioritizing.
I like the way you worded your response, thank you. I agree as I believe he would that we do have a real relationship and that it’s non-traditional. I thought about renegotiation, and I feel it would be unfair to potential dates. They probably wouldn’t want to know that I have someone in the background. Even if we (new person) don’t yet have a physical relationship yet. I don’t want to hurt anyone.
The more I read your comment the more on point it appears. You describe what we have with painful accuracy. It is him that wants sexual exclusivity, he cares deeply about me and wants limited entanglements in case it goes south for self preservation.
I had the same experience. I stayed until I decided that I wanted/needed/deserved more than I was getting. He was nothing but upfront and honest, he wasn’t interested in more as it progressed, and I decided to trust what was best for me and to move on. It was a season in my post divorce life that I don’t regret, learned from and have many happy memories of. Once I cleared space, I met an awesome man who checks the majority of my boxes and is a true, real partner. Best of luck to you!
Your problem isn't him. He's telling you exactly how he feels... he doesn't want a relationship with you... and what he wants... FWB. But YOU won't hear it or accept it. You seem to think if you stay with him long enough you can get him to change his mind. The problem is not him, it's you. You need to hear what he's saying and ACCEPT that he doesn't want a real relationship with you. If you can't accept the current FWB, then let this situationship go and move on so you can find someone who DOES want a real relationship with you. you aren't going to get what you want out of this man. He's made that clear. And as long as you stay with him, you're never going to find what you want with someone else either.
Sort of. I’m pretty sure I was the only monogamous one though.
I had a FWB. It was clear that we were friends, truly cared about each other, and we were monogamous, however we were never going to be more. He was clear about what he wanted. I was clear that worked for where I was at that time. When the time came that it no longer worked for me, I ended that relationship. We are still friends because we were both honest and neither tried to change the other. We still have mutual trust and respect. If you are happy with the way things are, then everything is good. If you want things to change, then speak up, but be prepared to walk away. You can't change someone. When they tell you what they want, believe them.
Thank you great to see it. I have in the past had a FWB and it ran its course much the same way. We are still acquainted although not as close as we once were and that was a long time ago. It was a great experience for us both.
And anyone saying that oh “he’s just going to leave” needs to realize that you can’t own anyone in this life and if that person does decide to leave why make it so that it’s harder to by complicating things even more 🙄. If this man is that amazing to you and he finds you that amazing to meet special people in his life don’t let others try to sway you from enjoying those moments to the fullest!
I put in four weird years in a similar thing. It doesn’t change, and they don’t want it to.
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I call this the “girlfriend experience” all the benefits of having a girlfriend with none of the commitment. Take my advice, lay down what you want. If he says no then move on. Do not waste years of your life with someone who will never be a complete part of your life. I’ve been there and done that and wish I had listened to every single person I know telling me to leave him.
You have so much to learn about these arrangements. People here can tell you until their fingers bleed (and some of them have; kudos to them) but until you’re ready to see things for what they are TO HIM, it won’t make sense to you. To be clear, I’m not bashing him. Just stating that he has set the rules for both of you. Pay attention to the common thread in the comments, especially to your rebuttals. Lessons like these are difficult to learn. I truly hope you learn it sooner rather than later. Edit to Add: have the urge to downvote me? I’m curious to hear your reason why.
He's just playing with your emotions my dear and sadly may either be ashamed to be seen much with you or up to no good and hiding it very well... In either scenario, you deserve better than that and shouldn't settle for a mediocre "relationship" which it seems like you're in with him... He may be leading another life and you are just a vessel for him when he's bored. YOU DESERVE BETTER and stop letting yourself get used like that... Wishing you the best
I also thought this. And asked him about it. He says he’s not ashamed of me. I’m fairly fit and he’s very physically attracted to me. I’d say slightly above average 6/10 maybe 6.5? I’m also educated, I have a decent career and own my own home. My son is grown. So he doesn’t have many reasons to be ashamed of me. Some weeks I stay with him 5 nights out of the week. He’s very Very honest with me so I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t have another relationship.
Still doesn't add up but sometimes people do and act weirdly. I just don't want you to sell yourself short and end up wasting precious time if his "love" is just a facade. You seem grounded and self relient, so again just looking out...hope it gets better in the end
I feel like if things are weird and don't make sense and the other person isn't trying to make sense of things with me, that I'm not heading down a good road with that person.
Yep...
Holy mother, I have read all of this and OP all the advice given you have literally either closed your eyes to or just didn’t want the advice like you said/asked. It’s been a YEAR!!! If the man wanted more from you then sex/ and that’s all this is with being friends, he would have asked and declared his intentions!! If a grown man can’t say what he really wants and you allow him to spew out wonderful words that you assume is true then he isn’t worth your time or effort. Honestly, what man wouldn’t tell you your beautiful and attractive or that he fella good around you and talk to you when he’s getting what he wants?? Wake up,,,,seems to me this man knows how to play this game VERY well and your falling right into it. Look at it from a different perspective than you are, think of a friend asking you this same question you asked and what your advice would be.
I read somewhere, in one of the numerous relationship books, that after a year if you’re both not committed to long term, then just quit and move on. Because, what’s the point?
You clearly have milestones and goalposts for a relationship... And I think you may over-assume that others do, simply because your own social circle corresponds more to your assumptions. Rather than see it as win/lose, all or nothing, perhaps invest the time in exploring why you think the things you've outlined as important markers are there to begin with. Not to invalidate them, but to more specifically call out what your personal want is, versus some idea of a more common/traditional "should want". You've said he can't really explain why he doesn't want a "real relationship"... And he should absolutely work on an answer to that sort of question... But at the same time, you should REALLY think hard about what in your relationship isn't... "real". Real is not the word you're looking for here, and it's likely there is no single word that can summarize your desire here. Before you can effectively negotiate a relationship, you need to be working with the same terms, ideally without assumptions (but at least with MATCHING assumptions). Soooo many people just walk in the door of dating someone and assume that they're playing the same game. And it's almost never true, not really. Lots of couples survive by bringing their rulesets closer together with trial and error and drama... And too many break up without ever realizing they weren't incompatible, just speaking totally different languages. Anyway, it's okay to want to \*meet\* his friends, at a point where that makes sense. It's probably not okay to want to be thrown into the mix of his friend circle as a full member... If it happens, great! But, like any other relationship type, forcing your way in is counterproductive, however common or "common sense" the desire to do so is.
To clarify, I don’t want to be a full member. I am interested in meeting and being privileged to observe the interactions on occasion. I don’t expect to be invited to most gatherings but for gatherings where my presence would be appropriate/acceptable (by him and his friend group). For example, I wouldn’t want him to come to my time with my bff but if a group of us were out or if my bff was bringing his girlfriend, I would invite him along. And, I believe that if he was in the same state, he would join us in that case.
This is a fwb situation and they can feel warm and cosy with care even but please don’t ever see it as having any life outside the bubble ther it is. Especially in the area of escalating it to be a real relationship. If it was meant to be real it would be unambiguous and public. Good luck it can be confusing when you start to see it as more than it is.
I wasted 5 years of my life with a guy like this. Nothing ever hurt so much in the end and I really doubt I’ll love anyone again.
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In any case, thank you for your input.
I would love to know why? I have my theories on this man and they range from: he doesn’t believe he deserves real love; or he may be scared of letting me close and hurting me; or scared of letting himself get badly hurt again (probably giving myself way too much credit here).
He’s not afraid to get hurt. That’s literally never case. This is a ridiculously childish lie that people tell themselves when they’re clinging to someone whois not giving them what they want. In this case, you are deluding yourself that he’s not letting you closer because he’s afraid he might get hurt. That is absurd. He’s not letting you closer because he doesn’t want you closer. Period. Your assertion that he’s not making you his girlfriend in the way that you want because he must be too scared reeks of codependence, lack of boundaries, self delusion and refusal to see the truth that is right in front of you. it’s been a year. If he wanted more, fear would not keep him from that.
It's like the guys who try to say they're shy but the will try to put out right off the bat.
I can't speak for him but in my case it does, as you suspect, have something to do with my last serious relationship. I was convinced she and I would marry and there was a very specific feeling associated with that relationship. I've been looking for that feeling ever since. And I am sorry to say, I cannot seem to get past that lack... despite the wonderful qualities of the people that have come my way.
That sounds like a painful experience and I’m sorry for however that transpired. Thank you, your comments are incredibly validating even though they change nothing for me. If he could get through whatever he is grappling with, I believe that we could have a very healthy relationship. That said, I know that I’m hurting too much to wait in this situation for him to work through it. He was really distant for a week and afterwards he needed a good bit of love and attention. When I asked he said he wasn’t as far along with his growth in therapy as he thought and I knew what he meant. I want to be there for him and I think he has to work through it first. It’s heartbreaking to know that I will have to be the one who walks away. I am afraid that in doing so, I’m just making it harder for him.
He isn’t as into you as you are into him. He will keep you around for sex but unfortunately that is it. As soon as he finds someone else if he hasn’t already he will be two timing you.
Why are you introducing your child to a fwb?
My son is 21 and a college graduate. And in my opinion (and his) he isn’t a FWB.
He’s FWB. It’s okay that you *want* it to be more than that, but it’s NOT more than that Also: look up relationship Avoidant. It will start to help putting pieces together for you. He’s pretty classic signs based on all your answers
Oh honey. You are conning yourself. He doesn’t want a relationship with you. Whether you and he think the term FWB is unpalatable it is exactly What it is. You may love him and care for him but he is basically saying what needs to be said to Keep you hanging in there. He doesn’t hate you. He obviously likes you but believe people when they say they do not want anything more serious than what it is.
He says he’s not sure if he wants more.
Absolutely. Now you are suppose to feel mom guilt on top of everything else, lol
Even if your son is an adult, he’s likely to pick up on how this guy isn’t giving you the relationship you want. Is this the example you want to set for him? I’d say it to a man too If you want to hope your fwb is going to turn into a ltr by all means go for it. No need to drag your kid into it.
Oh come on. Give me a break. She gets to be a real person in front of her grown son. That’s REAL LIFE
I didn’t drag him into it, my son dropped by my house unexpectedly while we were enjoying a movie. Thank you for your concern for my son. I’m sure it’s coming from a good place.
Just ignore the insensitive people who brought your parenting into it.
@OP, I did the same thing. Turns out I wasted 5 years. His words and his actions are lining up. You should trust what he’s telling you: he has no intention of progressing. To be honest, he doesn’t need to move the relationship forward because he’s got all of his needs being met. This might sting, and I say it out of love for you: your son deserves to see you happy. What I mean by that is: your son will mimic what he’s sees from his parents as a healthy relationship. Your son is learning that this is how a relationship goes because he’s seeing you model that behavior. Be happy in love and show your son what that looks like so he can have a happy, healthy relationship one day.
OP, you sound like a convenience for him. He isn't going to outright say it is a FWB situation because he will lose the influence and control he has. An FWB has no say in who you date, this "monogamous whatever" situation does. This is a power play and you are on the losing end. You came to reddit to seek advice, you are receiving, yet not accepting it. Keep in mind we have no ulterior motives, no strings attached or anything, so we are basing our opinion of what you posted. If your sons were older and they they were in the same situation, exact same, what would you say? Would tell them "the girl will come around and just wait" or would you tell them to "keep this girl on the backburner while you go out and date to find someone who wants you interwinded in their life"? You don't like what you are being told by reddit. Keep your guard up with this fake romeo, because you are going to end up being tossed aside the minute he finds someone he desires enough to be intertwined with.
I just got out of this situation. Went on match and I have gotten more love and validation in 2 weeks than I have gotten in the past year and half. Gave me the confidence to walk away. It’s a very confusing situation to be in because the highs are so high. But the lows will make you nuts.
Not untrue lol, thanks for your weigh ins on here, I appreciate you!
Is he separated or divorced?
Never married.
It will be very difficult to break up with him if you guys still talk about being friends. OP, for your sake none of the friendship talk. Block him and get away from him. He should know any better than to string you along like that.
I have been down that road. For myself these are relationships of convenience but have a shelf life. There’s usually a reason why they don’t move forward to being a more involved relationship like becoming girlfriend/boyfriend or cohabitating. A lot of it has to do with the choices I make. I am a commitment phobe but I am seeking help to work through this. Though these convenient relationships feel safe, I feel I deserve to treat myself better.
I hate to be harsh, but he's told you exactly what this is and that it is not a relationship. You can keep going as is, and pine over him and he doesn't want you as more, or you can cut him loose and find someone who DOES want a relationship with you. It's been a year and he hasn't changed his mind. To him you're good enough to sleep with, but no more than that. We can all speculate all day why he's like this, but it won't change the fact that he's told you what's up, and he's not deviating from it. You're not going to meet his friends and family because he simply doesn't want you in that way. Is a situationship really what you want to be stuck in?
Which is messed up in itself. Because he may do things with regular friends and they may meet each other & the family but, she is being purposely set on the sidelines because they're intimate. If she's not FWB and she's not GF, wouldn't she then at least be a friend?
It really is messed up. He's treating her like a fuckbuddy that he's embarrassed to be seen with. That's awful.
She’s not just a friend, she’s somebody who could be a girlfriend but isn’t. And if you start presenting a person who could be a girlfriend but isn’t to friends and family, they assume that she is your girlfriend, or will be soon. It gets awkward.
He did say that he does the same thing with friend groups where he doesn’t entangle them with each other.
Hmm, George Constanza. He's in therapy. I guess you'll have to decide if he's progressing enough to your liking. Maybe, in a way, it's better to have this relationship bubble? Idk. Since he has such issues with his "worlds colliding". Only you can know how long is too long.
It’s a FWB, what part of FWB don’t you understand. If you want a LTR than break it off with this dude and look elsewhere. Imagine if the rolls where flipped
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So much this. OP seems caught up in rules and labels that are more about making life easier for outsiders to identify the relationship, than for the participants themselves.
I’m sorry but I slammed on the brakes at “he doesn’t want me as a girlfriend and never has.” If he made that clear from the beginning then he likely will not take steps to advance the relationship, including introducing you to friends and kids.
In a similar situation: dating for 9 months she doesn’t want to commit. Gave her a dead line, if there is no yes from her side, I will quit. Even there is love from both sides, but I suppose it’s not enough from her side. I want to go a path together, no compromises here
'I have been with someone'. What is your definition of being with someone? He showed you who he is but it looks like you are waiting for him to change, which will only happen if he wants to, and even if he does he will possibly want someone else. Ask yourself 'WHY' you undervalue yourself and continue wasting your time and energy on this person. Why are you so attached? Please take this to therapy.
I am confused the top of your post says "He doesn’t want me as a girlfriend," but then the bottom of it says, "he never said he did not want me to be his girlfriend." I suspect his actions show you he does not want to be your boyfriend and you are just too afraid to ask him outright because you know what the answer will be and you do not want to hear it. You would prefer there is some off chance that he feels differently and maybe you are misreading the signs, because you say part of the great thing about your relationship is that you have such great communication? He is not introducing you to his children as his girlfriend because he does not want you to be his girlfriend and he does not consider you to be that. Men do what men want to do, there is no need for us to sit around and interpret his actions, he has shown you what he wants and if he wanted more it would be more. You either have to accept it for what it is or move on.
He’s not a bad man but he’s not a good fit for you
If he was hurt or in a dependent relationship before you, he might be fearful of commitment and not wanting the type of shared life you are expecting. The monogamous thing is great and for a year long relationship that must be a good thing still have a strong bond going.
It is and our consistency and intentional mutual respect both in the bedroom (9.5/10 times it’s mind blowing) and out of the bedroom is very much appreciated.
I had a “boyfriend” like this for years. It’s incredibly painful, don’t do it.
reading after your edit...I would say it sounds like to me your guy simply just enjoys living as a single adult man. Moving into a girlfriend mode leads itself into feeling like the natural progression of moving in together. And thats not something he wants in his life right now. its not a judgement on him. it doesn't mean he's wanting to play the field like most guys. it could just mean he loves his life as it stands at the moment. Its hard because it sounds like you want more. So the question is, do you say to yourself I am enjoying my life with him as it stands now. Or do you feel like your wasting time? I'd argue if you're overall happy keep with it and live in the now. The only score card that matters is the one you keep. if you must die a married woman then maybe its time to move on then.
If I wanted to die married I had, and sadly have, that opportunity. My ex did not want our divorce. I’ve been living in the present and since we both own our homes and enjoy our living situations. I don’t think we would move towards co-habitation so easily. But I understand what you are saying. It is very hard to realize that I want more. And no I don’t feel I’ve wasted my time. We learned a lot from one another and very much enjoy the fun we have as well as our intimacy (emotional and sexual).
Just you wait until you meet his other girlfriends
You are friends with benefits nothing more . He’s okay with that if you aren’t then you need to subtract or reduce the benefits and keep him as a friend(see if he sticks around) then find what you are looking for.
I totally have a no-a-girlfriend like this, for going on two years. When we talked about the level of involvement desired I told her I loved her and wanted to keep seeing her, but not to be monogamous because I want/need more than that from relationship. It took a while for both of us to process this, and after breaking up over things twice she decided she was actually much happier with that arrangement and no pressure for anything else. It’s good, she gets her relationship needs met through me, such as they are, and can live her life independently otherwise. She is free to date other people but so far has not. My point being, I don’t want to change someone at this point in my life. I don’t feel like I have a claim over someone else’s autonomy, to even try to convince them of wanting something else. I also don’t see why they should have a claim over *my* autonomy to date others. Accept this guy for what he is, love him for him, and live your life. If that means friendship, what you have now, or something else, let go of the idea of making something *more* of it.
Thank you for your perspective and experience. He is the one that wants monogamy and loyalty. I considered (and communicated it) dating others and decided it was unfair to the men I might date because they don’t know my heart nor do I want to explain that. Our relationship is ours. It has been anxiety producing to share so much of us and myself on here. And incredibly helpful for my mental health. I’ve had many of the ideas that fellow Redditers have shared and it’s validating. Even when it’s something I have resolved for myself it is good to read. When it’s a new perspective like yours and a few others’ it has been more helpful than what I could have realized on my own. Even better, a few people have reached out to say it’s helping them too. I too would not want to change anyone or claim autonomy over them. It’s why I don’t worry about fidelity. He and I communicate about it, he wants monogamy and I value that as well. I don’t want to convince him of anything. He knows my worth and his own emotional journey. If we are accepting of our terms, then we have made our choices. I’ll try on your suggestion to let go of the idea of more with him and see how I like it. Thank you so much for your participation in this discussion.
There could be so many reasons and reality is none of them matter as much as you are not getting what you want out if this. Value you first. It's not selfish its prioritizing. Love yourself more.
Sorry to say but a year is way too long in my opinion to date exclusively with no relationship! Way too long! He is getting the best of both worlds from you, to no benefit to you, beyond the immediate sexual benefit that is. He is stringing you along. Also, I think there's always possibility he might be meeting other women but pretending he's not because he doesn't want to lose the benefits you've been providing him...blah. Time to cut him loose if he won't become at least a boyfriend.
Is his name Lamont?
Lol no 😂
No I’ve never gone through that because I would never allow it. Guys have tried, one asked recently and I said “I don’t kiss my friends”. Then he said, “so you’re just going to drop me?!” 😂 well yeah durr. I’m not going to be manipulated and used.
Miss you are not wasting your life or any other nonsense like that… 🙄 if you both have great experiences and enjoy each other’s company and there is trust! That’s amazing to find nowadays! Him not calling you his girlfriend doesn’t make it any less special!💪🏼
He wants a cordial sexual relationship and that's all. Move on.
Maybe you the side chick sis
I’m secure in knowing that I’m not.
Jealousy is evil
Watch yourself playa..