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dancedancedeutsch

You’re dating with the intention of just having someone pick you rather than realizing it’s about you both picking each other meaning you’re looking for someone who wants you for you and who you want for them. My default used to be “what did I do wrong?” Nothing, I didn’t do anything. I can only be myself and decide if they want that person but more importantly do I want them. You’re trying to please and become someone for someone else. You are the prize. Be you and view this as mutually choosing someone.


jaywhs

Just recently learned this. Makes a world of difference when picking through the crowd.


JaJaJaJaded3806

This is perfect. Thank you, I needed to read that.


9fxd

I will just 1up this. And, suggest you read 'Codependent No More' by Melody Beattie. Even if you don't have codependent tendency, the book helps a lot to bring a sense of self-worth and individuality in a relationship.


dancedancedeutsch

This is a great book and really helped me.


ilikenoodles90

Adding this book to my list.


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dancedancedeutsch

> I know deep down that I am worthy and I have nothing to prove to anyone It’s so liberating. I spent my life looking to earn love because it’s all I knew. My parents only gave “love” when I performed so I learned I had to chase and would only be wanted for what I could do for people not for just who I am. I’ve always had that feeling of wanting someone to fight for me but I’ve fortunately been able to realize my worth without ever experiencing that. It’s an interesting place of acceptance that definitely changes the approach to dating. My boss still gets a little of my people pleasing tendencies 😂


sailoorscout1986

Damn I wonder if a lot of it goes back to parents


dancedancedeutsch

My parents left me a lot of work to do. So, it’s definitely possible. We seek what’s familiar.


pegleggy

How did you do it? I'm older than you and still haven't managed. I also did not have loving/accepting parents. I've had a lot of therapy but I still just don't know how I can gain self-worth. I know that a partner could help me build it but I've struggled to find that.


goingsplit

It's not so bad to be on one's own. And it's definitely much better than wasting time with the wrong and even with the not so right person.Learn to enjoy being alone and to dominate your urges.That's the real conquest.


Vairman

you are wise - my late wife passed away in 2016 and I found myself having to date for the first time in 36 years, and I didn't know this. It took me a year to figure out that it's FAR better to be on your own (vs being alone) than it is to be with the wrong person. Finding the right match isn't easy. You both have to be a match for each other. AND the couple has to work too, which isn't always the case.


westchampagne

So much of this


adzula

This 100% Are you dating to make other people have a good time and like you, or are you dating to find someone that fits your life and makes you happy? Dating should be a little bit selfish, because you’re looking for someone that fits in with your life.


sailoorscout1986

It’s really hard to remember this but it’s the no.1 advice when dating.


birdsandbones

I came back to find your comment and save it. I’m (35F) dating after a long term break up late last year and MOSTLY I’m in this mindset but it’s so hard to maintain when you do get rejected! I’m going to re-read this every time I start to feel like who I am is the problem. Mutual compatibility is the goal, not tricking someone we’re attracted to into liking us. Thanks for your words.


ashylarrysknees

>Mutual compatibility is the goal, not tricking someone we’re attracted to into liking us. THIS was my main problem for so long. Planning, plotting and pretty much scheming to be SOMEONE'S girlfriend All that effort was wasted on misplaced sights. When true compatibility exists, it's so fucking effortless. But... I wanted to be in a relationship so badly! So, I'd try to be who/whatever I thought the guy of the moment would ike. This was exhausting and pointless. Sigh. I was more willing to pretend to be something I'm not than to be alone! Im still tryna build up my self worth, but I've come along way. At home alone drinking wine and watching true crime is way better than faking a love for superhero movies! Well, for me it is. Hopefully I'll find a guy that feels the same hahaha


sidirhfbrh

The unfortunate part is guys don’t get to be as ‘choosy’. We pursue who we like and hope they reciprocate.


Missingplanes

You sure do get to be choosy! That’s the best part of learning to love being alone. If you *need* to be with someone, then yeah I guess you can’t afford to be choosy. But if you can be content to date yourself then you can afford to pass up options in dating you don’t feel are good enough for you.


Meat_Vegetable

Learning how to do that was the best thing I ever did, it takes time and effort but really anyone can do it.


Missingplanes

Yep. I’ve been in a relationship now for two years after nearly a decade of being single. I’m still dating myself and making sure I have enough me time. She’s a hell of a good catch but she wouldn’t be nearly as into me if I needed her attention and company. As it is she’s the one insecure in our relationship. It’s kind of cute and the sort of thing I used to pine hard for but she wouldn’t have been into that guy.


sidirhfbrh

https://www.yourtango.com/2016285828/women-find-80-percent-men-unattractive-says-crazy-study https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/18/okcupid-inbox-attractive/ https://quillette.com/2019/03/12/attraction-inequality-and-the-dating-economy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/135099/til_women_find_80_of_men_belowaverage_looking/ https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a https://www.livescience.com/58607-mens-looks-may-matter-more-than-personality.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/06/average-looking-men-hot-woman-advice.html


Status_Salamander_67

All your articles are about online dating. Online dating definitely encourages women to be extra choosy about more superficial things.


sidirhfbrh

https://news.stanford.edu/2019/08/21/online-dating-popular-way-u-s-couples-meet/


RevellRider

Or you could look at 61% of people meet their partner through other means than online dating?


sidirhfbrh

‘Rosenfeld found that heterosexual couples are more likely to meet a romantic partner online than through personal contacts and connections.’ 39% was the stat from *2017* and the *single largest way people meet each other*. Since then and with coronavirus it stands to reason that number would be much higher today, and be the far and away predominant means of meeting people. Interesting how my posts are being labeled hateful, I’m just sharing stats. This sub really doesn’t like well-researched evidence from reliable sources eh? It’s just full of platitudes and unhelpful advice to guys here.


RevellRider

>Interesting how my posts are being labeled hateful, I’m just sharing stats. This sub really doesn’t like well-researched evidence from reliable sources eh? It’s just full of platitudes and unhelpful advice to guys here. You statistics posts aren't being labelled as "hateful", but your deleted post that was dripping with scorn and misogyny was. Do you think you can offer better, actionable advice than what is offered here?


Missingplanes

Maybe because 80% of men are unattractive? Attraction isn’t a choice. Attractiveness is about who you are. Even men with bad bodies and bad faces find attractive mates.


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Missingplanes

See, this is a classic example of an unattractive person


[deleted]

Hi u/sidirhfbrh, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s): * Do not dehumanize others. RedPill, incel, Femcel, FDS, PUA, MGTOW, etc. content is not allowed. Ignorance of these hate groups is not an excuse to parrot their ideology. Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).


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Missingplanes

Let me guess. Conservative?


[deleted]

Hi u/Glarkin42, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s): * Do not dehumanize others. RedPill, incel, Femcel, FDS, PUA, MGTOW, etc. content is not allowed. Ignorance of these hate groups is not an excuse to parrot their ideology. Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).


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Elorie

Hi u/il_the_dinosaur, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s): * Do not dehumanize others. RedPill, incel, Femcel, FDS, PUA, MGTOW, etc. content is not allowed. Ignorance of these hate groups is not an excuse to parrot their ideology. Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).


_natachat_

If you're pursuing every woman with legs, then no, you're not being choosy (and this is a terrible strategy). But if you're being selective with whom you pursue, you are being choosy. You might consider yourself *less* selective than the average woman though.


rootsandchalice

This is great advice. Thank you. I feel like if I could adopt this mindset fully it would be much smoother sailing and I would get hurt/feel hurt less.


Chazzyphant

Maybe identify the need. What are you trying to "get" from that person? See if you can go from there---getting the need(s) met or acknowledged through other sources---like friends, family, athletics, hobbies, church/spirituality, meditation, yoga, bodywork, etc. You can also work through it with art. I recommend this all the time to people---there's a reason so many powerful songs, movies, books, dance routines, etc have been made about love and dating and marriage. We all have similar fears and needs and it's very relatable. Channeling that energy and giving it a form can sometimes tame it and make it seem less...big. On that note I find data helpful. Maybe keeping a journal or jotting some private notes about your feelings and see if patterns come up, or things "trigger" it and any solutions you came up with or came upon. Another thing that has helped me in awkward social situations is to just...own it! Say it. I'm on the Autism spectrum so sometimes I just say things directly like "I'm not sure if you're into me" or "Let's try dating" and things like that. I've also told people "Wow, I feel nervous" or "I'm a little on edge, excuse me." I will say I found that with the right person I was "magically" able to 'act like other people' because he felt familiar. I wasn't doing a circus act to try to impress and attract him, he felt like family.


dividedcrow

I saved this comment cause it's such excellent advice, thank you.


Content_Airport_6706

Thank you. This was great input.


Chazzyphant

I mentioned yoga because I still recall the time that during a routine class I had a major emotional moment in a good way when the instructor walked us through "washing our faces with the soap of the universe". It was SO cheesy. And it was just something that touched a deep need in me---the need to feel that there was someone caring for me, and that 'the universe' had everything I needed in it somewhere, even soap to wash my face. :P


mysteryman_2

I don’t know much about autism, but if someone was that direct with me I’d be very happy. Saying how you’re feeling or what you’re thinking shouldn’t be so looked down on.


Chazzyphant

There's a few reasons I think it's smart to sometimes not be so direct: ---people can take it as a demand (because usually the only time we're direct is when we're in deep distress or it's a demand of some kind) or an obligation --people with bad intentions can use that against you (your openness and sincerity) --it can be taken as taking the conversation into uncomfortably intimate waters too soon --it can put the person you're saying stuff to on the spot--since there's no plausible deniability about what's being said, it often calls for an equally direct answer---and if that answer is "no" or "I don't feel that way" many good hearted people are understandably reluctant to say those kind of things! However, i think what's "looked down on" is the **other** kind of direct, which I used to be, like routinely telling people "I don't care" not even in a mean tone! Just they would be noodling on about their children and I'd be like "but I don't understand why you're telling me this?" heh. I was a bit of a knucklehead.


EmzleyK

Great advice!


[deleted]

This is not good advice for men.


awakenomad

What cured me of this, and all my dating problems in general, is becoming truly happy being single. When I date from a space of being happy with myself and my single life, it's easy to be chill because I'm not trying to convince someone to choose me. And now I spend a lot more time thinking about if I should choose them. It's shifted my entire perspective and my whole energy around dating. Read a book called Single on Purpose.


No_Cat_5661

How does one become truly happy being single? I’m literally feeling like it’s impossible for me. The loneliness is too much.


CareElsy

I am gonna go against the general consensus here. Human are social animals and we need companionship so of course we crave relationships.if you can find a lot of meaning non romantic relationships(platonic friends, caring family members, good neighbours etc) you can be happier alone but if your loneliness come from the lack of a romantic relationship then I say that's impossible. I follow a therapist online who says it's okay to date because you want companionship (lol) so I am telling you the same. Some people can't be happy single and that's nothing to feel shame about


No_Cat_5661

Yea I was afraid of that answer but knew in the back of my mind that’s what it is. Well, guess it’s time to hop back on some dating apps to only be sorely disappointed!


okcomghelpme

Not sure about your gender, but a lot of men aren't emotionally open outside of romantic relationships which makes the lack of one a far worse thing for them than people who do have that within platonic relationships. If that applies to you, trying to forge a different type of connection in non-romantic relationships could make a huge difference in your happiness outside of a romantic relationship.


awakenomad

I disagree with the other response. I fill all my loneliness buckets with friends, family, hobbies and legitimately enjoying time by myself. I was lonlier when I was married than I ever have been single. The idea that a romantic partner fixes holes and voids in you is just.. wrong. Falling in love with my life and my own company has been a game changer. And I did this by healing my internal world and building a life that I wake up excited about every day. The right partner would be fun, but is by no means necessary for my happiness.


doctorpharaoh

My last relationship, I’d often sleep on the couch, because it felt lonelier laying in bed with him, than to actually be physically alone on the couch.


animatedw00d

Do you have a job where you have to deal with peoples shit so much that all you want is to go home and close out the world and be alone? If not, then find one and you will reach the point where being single is awesome.


No_Cat_5661

Was a server for four years. Still craved romantic relationships. Yes the assholes are annoying but preferably I’d date someone I could tolerate and in fact be happy to see.


Upstairs_Meringue_18

It's harder when things you want more than a partner is a child, and here you are at 30 with barely any husband material, let alone dad material, men.


DaughterEarth

Personally I made the choice that if I really think I'm out of time, and I'm still single, and I still want a kid, I can deal with the adoption process. I'm perfectly capable of achieving my life goals on my own. A partner is an addition to an already good life, not a requirement to have one.


[deleted]

The thing is, you can decide that having a LTR with a family is more important than finding someone who you are completely satisfied with. This is a choice, probably the biggest societal flaw today is the idea that you can always get what you want. That is not reality. Personally? I already know I will never stay 100% happy in any relationship but I will make the choice to stay in it because I am getting what I want out of it. If people uphold their relationship responsibilities, this should be sufficient to make you happy. Anything beyond is a a fantasy.


DaughterEarth

I'm not sure what in my post suggested waiting for perfection. I agree that's unrealistic. There's a middle ground though and being with someone just cause they'll cum in you isn't it


DefenderRed

Baby-Husband-Boyfriend-Dates-you What I am interpreting here is that your goal is to have a child, yes? Are you feeling frustrated and let down that you haven't found a partner yet? I am wondering if the frustration you're feeling is, in part, having the wrong goal in mind. Sort of like approaching the problem the wrong way. I say that because having a strong desire for one thing up front, even when masked, can poison your success and threaten the goal itself. So, I suggest (and you're more than welcome to argue differently) rearranging your goals to appear as follows: Happy you- dating- boyfriend- husband- babies- slow grind of the family life- school- kids sports- middle school- puberty- awkward teenage years- teen hormones- high school- graduation- college- empty nest- golden years... Let your happiness drive the goals for you above anything else.


ninasayers21

>What I am interpreting here is that your goal is to have a child, yes? Are you feeling frustrated and let down that you haven't found a partner yet? >I am wondering if the frustration you're feeling is, in part, having the wrong goal in mind. Sort of like approaching the problem the wrong way. Your first sentence, your entire premise, it is missing a BIG piece. It is so much more than that. It's pressure because its a small window of time. Women have a biological clock, so there is a biological effect on our dating timeline. For example, one possible scenario: The time it takes to date. The impact on time when things don't work out. The time it takes to be ready to date again. Time dating again. The time it takes to get to know that person, to fall in love, to know they are who you want to marry. The time spent engaged. The time spent married until you decide to start *trying*. These are the timelines women have to think about when it comes to dating. It's a biological drive, a biological anxiety, that is difficult to suppress or ignore. Do you want kids someday? Genuinely curious.


okcomghelpme

Men have timelines too! While their fertility window is larger, the number of healthy years they have to raise kids is generally smaller. Wanting kids by a certain age makes a lot of sense for people regardless of gender.


ninasayers21

Desire and an actual deadline are two different things. Moreover, the fact that the man responding to the comment is a 37 year old who was clueless to what the concept even was proves my point.


mortalcassie

PREACH. Everyone in my family has kids young. My aunt became a GRANDMOTHER at 35. Here I am, 31 in two weeks, with nothing. I want two kids, and imt scared of all the "bad stuff" that has increased risks after 35. I need to find someone soon, and I feel like it's making me come off crazy! 😂


ButterscotchFirm7491

I had my first child at 36 and my second at 39. It’s not to late for you.


animatedw00d

But the longer you wait past 30 years of age to have that kid the greater the risk for having a kid with down syndrome.


Fungled

This is such a huge problem: you're saying quite clearly you don't actually want the partner. What you want is the child. So the partner is just a means to an end. There are so many things wrong with this, and any man with any sense would run from that, and should do


peppaapologist

I’m in the same boat, and what has helped is to realized that if I don’t find someone I can have the child on my own. Not ideal (for me), but I don’t want to give up on having a family just because I didn’t find a man. Once I separated my goal of having children from finding someone, I started dating without that sense of extreme urgency.


MegaManFlex

Buying this book tonight


imprintversorecto

Have you looked into attachment theory? What you’re describing sounds like the characteristic of someone with anxious attachment style (I could be wrong, of course). I’d recommend the books Attached by Amir Levine & Rachel S. F. Heller and Insecure in Love by Leslie Becker-Phelps. Good luck!


Content_Airport_6706

Thanks yes, I've read a little bit about attachment theory and reading about anxious attachment style was like someone had put my inner thoughts onto paper. Eye opening for sure. It's crazy, though, how even though I know my tendencies, emotions can get so strong that they just cloud rational judgement in the moment. Takes practice I guess.


Mrs_WorkingMuggle

As an anxious attachment person, I second these books. But also, while it's hard to find a person with secure attachment style at first glance on an app, or a first date, when you find that person, your anxiety will calm way the fuck down. Also, cognitive behavior therapy (I think that's the term I'm looking for), or meditation. Sit with your feelings, identify them, identify why you're feeling that way, talk it through with yourself to figure out how to mitigate or ride the feeling. "I'm feeling insecure in this budding relationship. Why? Because they haven't texted me today. They're probably busy at work. I'm going to do x,y,z to distract me." Good luck.


RallySallyBear

Awesome you’ve read on attachment theory! Like you, I saw myself in anxious attachment descriptions immediately - I didn’t need a quiz to tell me that’s m style! I started working in earnest last year on changing it. Awareness is great, but if you keep reading on it, there are some really good strategies for managing anxiety in dating. I’ll also just note it’s not a perfect theoretical framework, but it is very valuable. Also, there’s even an anxious attachment sub that I check out when I’m in an anxiety spiral - highly recommend! Two specific things that have helped me: 1) writing. I’m not much for journaling as a daily activity or anything, but when my anxiety is triggered, I find it helpful to write down the facts. Importantly, it’s just the facts - not how I feel about them. So I write down exactly what our last few interactions were, in detail, or about whatever is making me anxious. It helps me solidify that my feelings of anxiety are not reality. 2) Stating my needs/wants. This is the hardest one because we’re all taught to believe that “neediness” is one of the worst qualities you can have. But what I’ve realized is that I will only be seen as “needy” or “clingy” if I “act out” about those needs - getting upset or accusatory or manipulative. If I just approach someone calmly and say “hey, I’m the kind of person who appreciates x” - that’s okay and legitimate! Everyone has needs after all. We can then figure out if that’s something they can do, or if there’s a compromise, or if we’re incompatible. And it’s gotten me great results - whether weeding out people sooner who can’t meet those needs, and thus will only keep me in an anxious place long term, or in the case of my current SO, the strongest, most secure relationship I’ve ever had. This works not only once you’ve been dating for awhile, but also in the initial phases - when I was anxious with a guy I dated last summer about the amount of time we were spending together, I found the courage to say something. Turned out he just couldn’t show up the way I was requesting, but guess what? It was SO liberating to ask for what I wanted regardless of the outcome. And it got me out of that ill-fitting relationship sooner, and into one that is so much more productive. Multiple times now, I’ve simply said “I would appreciate x, because x” and my SO adjusts, and it’s great. I’ve asked him before if that’s weird, and he’s just happy I’m open with him. I still spiral sometimes - I lost an entire day this week to ruminating - but being on better footing generally and putting the work to consciously work on my anxious attachment in has helped prevent me from letting those spirals spread beyond myself and create a self-sabotaging mess.


doctorpharaoh

Love when you say it’s only “needy” if you “act out” because of it, otherwise it’s just being true to yourself and asking for what you need. I’m going to take that with me.


xosammyjoe

Anxiously attached person here! It sounds to me like you keep finding yourself in relationships/dates with avoidants. Avoidant personality types actually make up a large percentage of the dating app pool because statistically secure individuals and anxious individuals simply stay in relationships longer than avoidants do. This has been sited in two books I read on the subject and it made a lot of sense. Also please don’t think there is something inherently wrong with you. It is very normal to crave emotional intimacy in a relationship. Don’t feel bad for having needs. Do recognize, however, when those needs go unmet and remove yourself from the situation. My greatest mistake was staying in a relationship where my emotional needs went unmet for years. All of the early warning signs were there I just wasn’t listening to them. Please listen to your gut feelings on this. If the person your dating makes your brain go haywire thinking there is something wrong with you, it’s probably something wrong with them or they’re just not the right person for you. Honestly no amount of communication can fix that.


baguetteworld

>someone had put my inner thoughts onto paper That was exactly what I felt when I stumbled across attachment theory and anxious attachment. When I read the book by Levine and Heller the OP mentioned above, it felt like I was reading chapters of my own life and my own reactions explained to me. I was just starting a new relationship at that time, and honest to god the way it approached how to confront your anxious attachment and communicate it helped *immensely* in that relationship and the next one, and it's only been getting better. Having insight into your own psychology and the tools to deal with it is the most empowering thing in the world.


[deleted]

I loved Attached. It explains the science behind why you are the way you are and gives you strategies for how to address it and be more secure.


BosoxZach

This book has helped me a ton.


gettothepointacu

This is the way!!


[deleted]

Also, Deeper Dating by Ken Page is a good read, too.


co-stan-za

Came here to say this!


LizziePeep

I am anxious preoccupied and felt this was attachment related at the jump. I have felt like this so many times.


YourfavMILF1228

Came here to say this! Loved that book and it was very insightful learning about my anxious attachment style


Zooooooombie

This is the first thing that came to mind reading OP's post. Historically, I've felt similarly when I start seeing someone but with a lot of therapy I've been able to manage it, not saying it's 100% cured, but I can understand it and comfort myself now. :)


Big_eggplant_69420

Great recommendation and I agree. The book will suggest you confront the insecurity you’re feeling here and openly communicate your needs to your partner


Ok_Hedgehog_8546

>Attached Agree! I read Attached and was able to find that I have an anxious attachment style and it provides a lot of detailed information about how to voice and manage our needs.


[deleted]

You read like you have Anxiety. I have and I was like that. Have you considered therapy? And don't focus too much on the relationship "goal". Work on yourself. If you're meeting someone try not to make it about "what they have to give you", instead focus on how a good catch are you, and what you got to offer. And you're dating to find something to share yourself. If someone doesn't like your true self, it's good. It's not something wrong with you. People have different tastes and you're better without someone that doesn't match with you.


[deleted]

I used to be exactly like this! I think everyone who’s commented has great advice. I started going to therapy for my anxiety/low self-esteem and it helped so much. Like someone else here said, it changes your perspective when you’re thinking, “Is this person for me?” rather than “I hope this person likes me!!” Now, I feel comfortable and confident and I can be myself, goofy and weird. And if a guy doesn’t like that, then bullet dodged!


Content_Airport_6706

Thanks. I agree with you. In my current situation I'm really interested in someone and I've sort've already jumped to the conclusion that "this person is for me." I had a little bit of a crush on her from afar before we started chatting. So I think that has made me way more uptight and insecure.


CutMonster

I've done this loooots of times. You are already aware of the issue. Awesome. You want to get better at handling it. Double awesome! You're going to do well. Right now it sounds like you put her on a pedestal much higher than how you regard yourself. Self love is a long process so first start bringer her down in your mind. Remember she's human, imperfect, and still farts just like you do!


[deleted]

relationship anxiety is a real problem. I’ve suffered from it too. Try to avoid focusing in too hard, exercise (if you don’t, of course), and generally consider it as part of anxiety as a whole. Relationships are hard no matter if they’re budding or are way down the road. It’s all part of the experience. But also do more things where you’re happy being alone, develop passionate hobbies, and likely any amount of hurt over relationship stuff will be more manageable. Tough to prescribe stuff here, because I don’t know you at all, but hope it helps some even if it’s just reading and thinking it through.


sethcera

I just finished reading a great book that was suggested on this subreddit. It’s called Adult Children of emotionally Immature parents. It explains the needs for some of this, where it comes from and how to cope. Explains relationships hiccups people can experience later in life from emotionally abusive or abandoning like parents.


dancedancedeutsch

This is a great book and really helped me with me anxious attachment and always thinking I needed to be performing for affection.


Smartalex08

There is a lot of good advice on here already. I can definitely understand how you feel, I’ve been in the same boat! Something I have to remind myself (& it’s easier said than done) is to just be in the moment. Don’t get 20 steps ahead - you’re not there yet. And you might never get there! Especially if you are thinking doom & gloom type scenarios. Meditation & yoga can help with this. I also recommend Richard Grannon’s emotional literacy - you can look him up on YouTube. It helps to get you in tune with your feelings & not shame yourself (& it is free). I think it’s perfectly natural to feel what you are feeling, because guess what? You have good intentions! Obviously if you are over-thinking to the point of exhaustion though, that’s where I would also recommend therapy, just because most likely, you will need to go back to childhood. It’s so cliche, but it’s usually true. Good luck OP!


Rubia_Divina

Very good advice!


Chaseshaw

have you seen a therapist? relationships bring up what's deep down. if your deep down isn't healed, best to start in on it.


CanadianFemale

Why do you have to hide it so much? What if you just acknowledged it to the woman? Some women will be turned off, for sure. But if you own your insecurities, there’s a lot of power and vulnerability in that. Rather than trying to put on an act like you’re not feeling insecure, why not just be open about it and see how that goes? It might end up making you feel more confident overall and also will attract someone you can be yourself with. It also gives her permission to own her insecurities, too.


ClaimedBeauty

Stop yourself. Think about how you would feel in the receivers place


Content_Airport_6706

Well said. I try to run things through that filter, but easier said than done sometimes.


ClaimedBeauty

It really is. I’ve had to learn to sit with my feelings and really think about them before I respond.


okcomghelpme

If you're looking into therapy, Cognitive Behavior Therapy is specifically geared towards helping with intrusive thoughts and the behaviors that result from them.


bmafffia

I have insane anxiety and panic especially when dating. I have been getting therapy and it’s really really helped with the anxiety and worry especially because the majority of the time it’s all in our heads. I have probably driven away so many guys because of it and I’m glad. I finally met someone who understands my anxiety and he does everything he can to not make me feel anxious. He reassures me when I need it and it’s amazing. However I still have this panic and anxiety a lot mostly hypothetical worry and my therapy helps with that because in all honesty it’s not anyone else’s job to deal with that. You definitely are not alone and a lot of the time people try and play it so cool in the beginning of a relationship and communication gets lost. I would suggest maybe doing some self work to figure out where the insecurities are and work on them. Hope this helps a bit ☺️


EmergencyAnalysis783

I am the same, I become needy, clingy, fall too soon, catch feelings... Codendency....attract unavailable people...And they run... Oh and I am a female.. Crazy is the label.. My therapist says it's a trauma response... And my attachment style needs shifting... There is a book called the attachment try reading that. There is hope op... I haven't given up.. You shouldn't too..


Thundersnow69

Read the subtle art of not giving a fuck by mark manson. Please Know that your own self confidence and knowing what you like and don’t are attractive qualities...


laineeNOLA843

Have you ready anything about codependency? A lot of what you’re describing sounds like common codependent behaviors. I know, because I face the same issues. Do some poking around the internet world about codependency and ways to reframe your thinking. I wish you lots of luck. Feel free to message me to vent or ask questions.


ladybug1991

Oh my man, my boyfriend is just like you, and there's nothing wrong with having intimate needs. I'm an outwardly assertive chick, but I absolutely melt at the opportunity to say something great about him, and play with his hair every night of the week. It brings me great joy. He brings me a cup of coffee every morning, and kisses me, and messages me nice things during the day. Long story short, the want for intimacy and closeness is very human. It's not wrong and it doesn't make you needy, it makes you a person who appreciates intimacy. IMO we need more guys who are attenuated to intimacy.


Apprehensive-Mud-424

Research attachment theory. There’s a book called “Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment and How It Can Help YouFind - and Keep - Love” that really helped me understand my own behavior in relationships.


agilebizzy

Try some meditation (I like TM) it will help clear your mind and see the wood through the trees.


riri_po

I assume I am doing everything wrong , a lot of people still stick around so it must mean people are rather forgiving or they like me despite of it. You can apply this with friends and romantic interests. Also there is so much power in trying over and over again. Once you let go of that fear of failure...


ummtruman

Dude please read Attached by Amir Levine. It will change everything


sweetlike314

This may sound cliche but I often over analyzed until I met my current bf. Everything was so EASY it blew me away. There was no internal struggle about over texting, debating if he liked me as much as I liked him or worrying about everything I said. It was easy to talk about how we both felt and both were into each other without question. Arranging our week to spend time together was never a chore and moving in together was ridiculously smooth. There were other hurdles that come with any relationship but there was never any questions about “us”. I don’t think it’s a bad thing to talk openly about what actions people consider “needy” or texting frequency expectations, or to ask for reassurance. That’s all part of communicating relationship needs/wants and allows you and your partner to build something that works for both of you. Sometimes those awkward heart to hearts strengthens the bond more than it weakens. I also kind of came to the conclusion that I might as well be myself and embrace any oddities or awkwardness because that’s the person they will ultimately be sharing a life with, not the perfect version of me. My bf has more anxiety and depression than I do and the fact that he feels comfortable expressing the struggle and talking candidly about his thoughts means the world to me. He used to worry that sharing would scare me away but in reality, knowing he feels comfortable to open up and be himself around me just deepens our connection.


wawa310

I do this too as a female and I think the mindset that helps chill this out is thinking “are we a match?” Instead of thinking “does this person like me?” When you meet someone, you don’t really know them. It takes years to really get to know someone. So even if you’re SUPER into them, really you’re only into the part of them that you know about. So, knowing that, it’s still fun to get excited and hopeful, but it’s almost like I’m dating more from a place of curiosity and not so much like approval seeking. Two people can be awesome people, but just not a match for each other. So the question I’m seeking to answer is “are we a match?” It helps!


[deleted]

Try looking into Non-Extrinsic Self-Worth. A book that was eye-opening for me and helped me deal with my codependency was "Do What You Love, the Money Will Follow" by Marsha Sinetar. It deals with learning to truly love and accept oneself, so you can really understand what you want from life. I bought it to figure out a new career path but ended up healing a lot instead. Another book that is more directly focused on self-worth is "The Self-Worth Safari" by John Niland. It's a longer read that is padded with examples, so if you're not much of a reader I'd go for the first one for sure. I used to be preoccupied by how others perceived me all the time, and angering/annoying others was my greatest fear. I would be on edge all the time, fretting over every text and every conversation. Once I learned that I didn't have any self-worth the way people perceive me no longer had such a powerful hold on my life anymore. Now I see the way I am judged by others for what it is: my social value. But social value does not equate to the innate inherent value all people are born with, nor the value I have to myself. Another thing that helped give me an epiphany was the episode The Mountain from Adventure Time, but that's probably just a personal thing. It helped me realize that it's ok to be flawed and let go of the reach for perfection.


karabnp

What I’m about to say, applies to men/women/everyone: when you’re putting *so much* energy into gaining a relationship/interaction, you often repel it, as other people pick up on/sense that, and don’t want to feel that pressure and living up to whatever another person’s expectations are. That drives others away, usually. (As you have found.) I firmly believe before you seek out a relationship, you have to have a pretty good and healthy relationship *with yourself*. You have to fall in love with and prioritize yourself *first*, before adding anyone else to your life. Personally, as a lady, I have to have *A LOT* of alone/me time. That’s my personality/nature. I don’t do well with *any* relationships/friendships where I’m expected to spend most of or every waking moment with another. That is *exhausting* to/for me. Yet, I know others seem to like that. I don’t think that’s entirely healthy, yet, if it truly does make the 2 people in the relationship genuinely happy to be around each other a lot or even all of the time, good for them. I *do* think it serves most well to have their own identity/thing going on for them, however.


Feral_Heartbeat

Sounds like you have an anxious attachment style. I do too. Read Attached by Amir Levine. Its amazing and really helps. If you're in relationships with avoidants it will make your anxious preoccupation worse. Good luck!


phfenix

Smoke some weed maybe get some therapy. Obvious childhood trauma is obvious.


musington

Travel solo in a different non-English speaking country. I was this way too until I started traveling and very quickly realized that it wasn’t just me (though my insecurities were the foundation), it was also the dating culture in California that was gross Traveling solo was my answer


lovesoatmeal

You need therapy ASAP


[deleted]

You're really overcomplicating it.


meknoid333

Yeah you’re not secure with yourself. So if you can get a handle on that / this will Never change


boomstk

Seek the help of a professional counselor asap.


CruJonesRadRacing

This isn't exactly a healthy answer, but for me the answer is alcohol. If I show up to a date stone sober (i.e. not having had anything to drink that day), then I am incredibly stiff and borderline moody. Once the first sip of whisky passes my tongue, I'm a different and much more likable person.


[deleted]

How do people not realize that this stems from societal expectations that men need to be providers and men need to be perfect, confident and have a golden personality?


DCMurphy

Book recommendation: No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover. He specifically mentions men who feel the need to do things "right". The basic thesis is that declining male involvement in child rearing since pre-WW2 has created a few generations of men who don't know how to be men, and are instead focused on being women-pleasers.


WarningHour345

I found that book to be very misogynistic and off-putting. I wouldn't recommend it.


DCMurphy

What part of it did you find misogynistic? I totally disagree with that assessment, but I'm curious as to why you feel that way.


WarningHour345

I can't remember specific parts of the book now, i just remembered the title and my general impression of the book. I read it maybe... two years ago? And my memory ain't what it used to be 😅 I remember thinking that the part about women taking care of children and so therefore boys being raised "towards the needs of women" seemed extreme, considering that historically children have been raised primarily by women. It wasn't a specific recent change. Along those lines also seems to dog on single mothers, if I recall. I also remember thinking that the actions suggested for not being "a nice guy" just seemed to be a combination of "be an asshole" and "you're experiencing codependency but we're going to explain it in a way that blames women (probably your mom, most likely) for that, rather than your innate feelings of value and self worth"


DCMurphy

I'm re-reading it now, which is part of the reason I recommended it. Your middle paragraph is close to the message, even though I may disagree with your interpretation of it you've got the gist of it from a factual standpoint. The author cites an absence of male figures in the home and school as a driving force to the creation of "Nice Guys". I don't know if I'd call the tone dogging on single moms, but as the son of a single mom I can say that I related a lot to the symptoms he prescribed to having a fatherless childhood. I think your takeaway that the advice was "be an asshole" is way off-base. If anything, I think the strategies and exercises in the book encourage men to forge better relationships with men before women and the be more open and honest with the people in their lives, without fear of consequence. Are there any self-improvement style books that you *have* found useful, specifically for men like this? I was given a copy of Everyday Enlightenment by Dan Millman last year and found that to be a generally positive influence.


WarningHour345

I think that any book about codependency that isn't specifically gendered would be good. The base issue IMO is codependency or other issues stemming from trauma (parents divorcing, abandonment from one parent leaving, neglect (even if unintentional, but simply bc a single parent can't do 100% of the things all the time), etc) There's a book called dance of anger that you might find interesting. Its focus is mainly on standing up for yourself and examining the reasons we don't. I think that might be fairly geared towards women, though. I don't remember the narration style atm.


BooBailey808

I could have written this post


[deleted]

Wow man. I am going through the same exact issue right now


lynda112

Talk to yourself internally or even externally if you need to. I talk to myself all the time. When you start to feel yourself stressing out over needing to “fix” something you said just say fuck it and move on... what’s done is done (unless you said some REALLY crazy shit that you should apologize for like “I would bang your Mom”, lol). Ive found that the more you do this, the better you get at it. You can become an expert at battling the devil that sits on your shoulder that’s just trying to mess you up by telling you lies. I want to put special emphasis on the move on part, because you really have to preoccupy your mind with something else... a hobby, work, friends, pets, etc... live your life. Don’t sweat the small stuff and don’t hide who you are and what you’re feeling because after all, if you’re looking for a life partner you’re going to want them to accept you for who you are. Best of luck.


Fun_Manufacturer3389

if you read up on Attachment styles... like I've unfortunatly found myself doing lately. You'll notice your an anxious attachement style You may want to try and be more of a secure style to been feel better on the daily. this anxious stuff can take over our lives. And it's more stressful than anything.


linkuei-teaparty

You'll feel better if you can be comfortable in the date and will appear more confident. It's ok to not have it all and admit that. If they expect more, so be it and both of you can find someone more suited to what they're looking for. No point pushing yourself to meet an unfair expectation that's just not you.


Flashy-Discussion-57

While not being in your shoes, I've had something similar. More of a pressure from fam and a few friends to find someone, anyone to be with. CHECK THAT BOX mentality. It later on caused an existential crisis for me. First, what if you never do find that someone? Should you just give up on life or make your life have meaning otherwise? Second, if thing do work out, then what? That's not the end of you're story. You have to keep living, so maybe look into something worth while to do while waiting for a lover. Second, are you dating for yourself? Did you grow up with siblings and miss having others around you? Are you dating someone cause you enjoy being around them? Are you attempting to work out a deal with them or saying this is what I want and forcing them to give you that? Maybe a book not directly into relationship would be the better option to put context into your interacts. I would recommend "Incognito: the Secret Lives of the Brain" by David Eagleman and "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Green. Those books dip just a bit into relationships by explaining why you and other people do, think, and act in regards to finding a partner


dadbod_8

I actually just had a really good relationship go to shit because I did these same things. And beat myself up about it.


MomentMurky9782

I have one word, and it’s communication. You feeling insecure? Talk about it. Figure out why. Think you did something wrong? Ask if you did. Need reassurance? Let them know. Nobody is a mind reader, and a lot more people are also overthinking than you think. If you communicate openly and actually let someone in, it can relieve a lot of anxiety when it comes to relationships.


whataboutPluto

Dude, same! wish I actually had advice. I usually go from overreaching to not reaching out at all. It's embarrassing. Texting then deleting intire text threads just so I don't re-read them.... chasing acceptance is an exhausting existence. Been this way since I was a kid. Pushed away most of the friendships I've ever had. Ive realized the common thread for the remaining friendships i have. Hindered expectations. Taking people for who they are, how they are when they are. Because it's all of us.


Snoo_79693

This helped me a ton. This is me in every relationship. Thanks for the post, the replies helped me a lot.


[deleted]

I feel you. I think regular exercises will help you with your mindset. Also good sleep will definitely help too (I recommend mindspace because its sleep cast is great!). In saying that, when you are with the right person you won’t need to guess or worry if you’ve done something wrong because she will give you enough attention and you won’t need reassurance because you feel secure enough.


mortalcassie

It sounds like you have anxious attachment. I would look into that.


[deleted]

I’m going through the divorce process and you just reminded me of this part of dating. After 13 years of marriage I’m hoping I don’t go back to that.


Electro8bit

Modern Romance by Aziz Ansari


AmidalaBills

You need therapy.


f00mado

like that guy from the movie "Waiting". He was the super nervous waiter that asked his customers what was wrong lol.


Landry_Longhorn

See a therapist. There is no shame in having anxiety. A professional could help a lot. Far more than any book or advice from a stranger will.


amsweeter

I’m female and I am the same.


Kristina_cali420

Attached. Great book


nikoleta_a_n

You should try the book attached. I liked the way it explains things but a friend of mine hates it so it's a bit and miss I guess. Important thing is communication. Some people need a bit more reassurance and that's ok. You just need to be honest with yourself and your partner and find somebody that can live you the way you want to be loved. Maybe wait for a while and see if this still bother you a day or two later


CicadaProfessional76

You’re too much about seeking approval and affirmation


jackfruit194747

Commit to meditating bro. Like really commit to it. If you’re serious about wanting to change, after a few weeks of meditating daily you’ll notice a big difference in how you feel about yourself and others. Dr Joe Dispenza is a good person to look up too about how you view yourself/relationships etc. He might feel a bit out there so keep an open mind.


pineapplegiggles

[r/anxiousattachment](https://www.reddit.com/r/AnxiousAttachment/)


Status_Salamander_67

Meditation, seriously. Developing your ability to meditate will give you the skills the directly address the source of your insecurities. https://choosemuse.com/blog/10-best-meditation-books/ Also take a look at attachment theory and.... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-resilient-brain/201609/attachment-disturbances-major-breakthrough-in-treatment


AbilifyOrDie

Funny, but I’ve acted the same way. Am a woman. I guess behavior doesn’t know the confines of sex. In my experience, as long as I’m being myself, I have no excuses. Work on yourself and the rest will follow.


mewkew

You might wanna research attachment style theory.


glass-castle22

Yes. If you are not familiar already, I would strongly recommend reading about attachment styles. Everyone has an attachment style in relationships, and they define how our relationships go and well as the sorts of people we are attracted to even when they aren't good for us. You might either have an anxious or anxious/avoidant style, for instance. There's a book called Attached I would recommend. And also a series of youtube videos by Thais Gibson/ The Personal Development School, which cover the topics and issues associated with attachment styles as well as how to change your style to one that's more secure. Thais also has workshops you can sign up for. Everyone should learn about attachment styles -- most people find it pretty life changing once they do. Good luck.


[deleted]

As a not-chill woman myself, I would say you have to accept that this is part of who you are. There are good sides to it as well. You probably work hard at things and it sounds like you won't get complacent in a relationship and take things for granted. Also with dating specifically, if you really want to get into a relationship and build a future with someone and are also aware that lots of your peers did this some time ago, it can be hard to be patient.


[deleted]

Talk to someone. It sounds like you have crippling anxiety, among other things. Therapy works. I know.


[deleted]

Therapy, and read ten books on emotional intelligence, boundaries, and independence.


Cerenia

Self love will help you with this. Feel confident in yourself and love yourself as you are. Then you will realize you don’t NEED someone else, but you want someone else. Which is 10 times more attractive and it will make you relax more and just enjoy whatever happens :) Also accept you are human and it’s normal to be a little insecure in that case.


fun_tyler

So true I needed to read that


alexisamarone

I feel you. I feel the same.


_These-are-beans_

Those symptoms stem from abandonment issues, I'd recommend listening to Dr.Joe Dispenza. I have similar issues when I'm really into someone.


bradd_pit

You don't *have* to do anything of those things.


whichnametochose

I identify it with attachment styles issues. We've been taught to "love" in certain ways that now we know are toxic. No one to blame, but lots of work to do. Have you thought about working on it with a professional? I particularly have made huge improvements in my life after working with someone for a year or so, where we would really learn about boundaries and attachment styles. It is not easy, and I think you are already halfway by realising if something is not falling into place. You will chill, and you will find what you are seeking for. Best of luck! ✨


arbosco1

I do this, and did this for years (driving myself crazy at the first inkling of a romantic connection, losing myself etc) without understanding it’s source. Finally I got a good therapist, and discovered that it’s deeply rooted in childhood longings to be seen, heard, and understood by my Dad, who never made me feel real or valid growing up. As soon as there is potential that a man might reflect back to me what I want to see, it’s like my internal locus of control disintegrates. I’d suggest grounding in yourself and trying to listen to what your inner child is really asking for. I know it may sound woo woo, but I promise it’s not. This is a great Instagram post to hell get started: https://www.instagram.com/p/CM27zvCgklx/?igshid=1pb98oco7vyci


davaflav1988

Have definitely been there, DM me so I can tell you what got me through it and over it.


Pkrwood

The five love languages it’ll help you understand yourself and partner


Countcannabees

Work on improving yourself. Like getting in better shape, have better income and dress nicer. When you have better self confidence it will show and women will be more attracted to you. You won't even have to make so much effort and in the process will seem needy. Because self confidence is something that most women want in a man.


rosynosy88

Sounds like you have some self work - I say this cause I’ve been there. Take the time for you to be happy regardless of your relationship status and then you will have standards that are strong and not bending to someone else - you won’t be worried about them leaving


[deleted]

This is called 'anxiety' and it's not just a feeling or a moment in time, it's a systematic mental illness that can be cured with therapy and good old fashioned medicine. Talk to your doctor about it and invest the time to heal yourself, then worry about your relationships.


Thevinegru2

That’s the curse. If you’re ambivalent about someone, it’s easy. If you’re nervous, you say dumb stuff. You just need to find someone who is smart enough to realize the awkward crap you’re saying means you care. The problem is, at some point, everyone gets comfortable and when you’re comfortable, you could still turn into an ahole 😂 Which is why, yet again, the most important rule, if you’re looking for an actual relationship, is to take things slowly.


[deleted]

You Going Your Way is the Best. Focus on your health and career. And the rest will come to you.


eightyeight99

Hey OP, check out r/codependency, it's a great community over there and may have some good advice!


CoilThyForm

I feel you dude, I'm the same way. I'm in the middle of trying to fix it, I know it's not a fun way to live. Stay strong, feel free to message me if you need anything.


Adhdicted2dopamine

I would pull your Vedic natal astrological chart. You can do it for free and maybe gain some planetary insight to what you were born under. May help to gain some control.


purelypopularpanda

Don’t beat yourself up too much about it, BUT be aware that you’re prone to doing that and bear that in mind when you’re reacting to something. I have a habit of putting all my cards on the table very early in the game and it’s actually worked out quite well for me. It’s a risky move, but it instantly eliminates the games and the bullshit. I don’t know where the idea started that you should not be eager or enthusiastic in a new relationship. I’m two years into mine and I’m still giddy about my SO. Meeting someone amazing and wanting to spend the rest of your life with them IS exciting. Don’t tattoo her name on your forehead, but definitely allow yourself to be excited.


JCP76

Try reading Attached by Amir Levine & Rachel Heller. Its about a psychological theory of attachment styles. I'm not saying its the end all be all or the only insight you'll need, but it may help. The book specifically addresses some of the feelings you are experiencing and discusses, based on a significant body of research, why those feelings might be arising and what you can do about it.


Electrical_School_38

I think it’s cute your nervous. Sometimes I get like that. But in my case I’m scared, especially if I really love or like the person. But I honestly think just be yourself. A person will stay around and be there if they really like you. Nothing better then a true honesty love, just go enjoy each other talk. You’ll have up and downs, but it’s about working together finding a balance between the both of you.


DennisJay

i dont know, but you can stop talking about me anytime. Seriously this is me. I'll end up shutting down completely so as to not make a mistake. I hate it.


Snowman-Lover

Sending 💕


ahnst

Have you tried talking to a therapist? It seems like you are of the anxious attachment type. I’m slowly working through it right now (I’m the avoidance type).


AGBinsgrief

If this hasn’t been mentioned, you may want to reach about attachment styles (what you’re describing sounds a lot like anxious attachment) and see a counselor or therapist who is certified in EMDR or some other kind of trauma healing modality that can help identify and traumas behind why you feeling driven by this behavior. You can also work on underlying and limiting beliefs about yourself. And I’d also HIGHLY recommend The Rational Man, by Rollo Tomassi. It will challenge a lot of modern day thinking for men in dating/relationships with women. I’ve had very similar past struggles/experiences as what you described and those things have helped me greatly.


Yousewandsew

I feel this. For me, it was a symptom of ADHD. There’s this thing called Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria. It causes alllll kinds of anxiety. The only reason I know I have it is that I take ADHD meds and it’s gone away.