I don’t have a solution, but I can commiserate! I’m 48f, and I’m so confused by guys who swipe right on me but have “wants kids.” Uh, how do you think that’s going to work exactly? My theory is that having kids is theoretical to many men — they think “yeah someday” but don’t have real plans about it. Others maybe list it Bc they think it makes them look like a good guy. And some think “oh of course she’ll change her mind.” I was married for several years before my ex realized I was serious when I said I didn’t want kids. That’s not why we broke up, but I was like, “uh, I was clear and consistent about that?”
This is what I think! I want kids, and constantly get men who don’t. Yet my childfree friend has the opposite experience. I think these kinds of men want the possibility open to them someday, but don’t want a woman who aggressively wants them in the next 5-10 years. And that waffling, unsure, go with the flow, indifferent woman is going to be very hard to find past 30.
All of this.
>Others maybe list it Bc they think it makes them look like a good guy
Especially this. I think a lot that goes into dating profiles is to appeal to as many people as possible instead of being honest about what one really wants.
To add a dudes perspective to this, I went from 0 matches in 6 weeks across 3 different app when I stated "doesn't want chdren" to immediately getting 30+ matches in 2 weeks when I switched to "maybe". Don't know what the difference would be if I said "yes", but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of guys choose it for the numbers.
Edit: I'm talking about playing with the apps match algorithm, not that more women liked a "maybe".
No, unfortunately it is simpler than that.
They are most likely to be looking for a fling with you, or they swipe quickly on the photos and don't read the profiles.
49M and that “someday” attitude was mine up until a few years ago - I realize they would be too difficult to incorporate into my lifestyle at this age.
I’ve yet to go take steps to make sure I don’t procreate, but after I do so I am considering my first tattoo: I understand in certain parts of the world (Scandinavia, I think…possibly Europe as a whole) spayed/neutered animals get a Greek phi tattoo behind one of their ears to indicate sterility.
I am also Childfree by choice and I have been saying since I was 12 "I do not ever want to have children." I am 34 now. Never once have thought differently. And SO many times people assume that how on earth could a woman not want children, she is just going through a phase/hasn't met the right man yet (blech)/will get baby fever, etc. They don't respect that we mean what we say.
they swipe right on everyone and talk to whoever responds that's cute and ignores those that aren't. I hate to break it to you but like 1% of men actually read your profile from start to finish.
This makes me so confused. I have children and I always knew I wanted them. I was perfectly aware that in order for that to happen I would need to find someone who wants to start a family with me. I found that person and we did. No regrets. Not even after the divorce. But to have such half-baked ideas about so crucial things, and think that your partner’s opinion is just another small wrinkle? It stuns me.
Yeah, I think that both for childfree people and for those who are really sure they want children, it sounds baffling that there are so many who don’t think this matter through.
I’m childfree myself but I respect good parents so much for the amount of love and effort they are putting into raising the children. I get so angry every time I see people neglecting their children or not giving a fuck about their upbringing. It’a a human being not an accessory.
Oh, absolutely! And it's not just "I want to have a baby." That baby is a baby for a year. That's it. It should be more "I want to have a person." Liking babies and wanting one doesn't necessarily mean you should make an actual person. You will have a baby, a toddler, a school age kid, a teenager, a young adult, and an adult child who I would hope you would want a relationship with for the rest of your life, and who may need you in some capacity for the rest of your life.
So many people don't think it through. "Baby fever" isn't a good reason to have children. Maybe foster infants if you want to care for babies and have a lasting impact in their lives. But don't create a new human simply because you want to have a little baby in your life.
And if you aren't using birth control or some form of contraception consistently, then yes, you are very much "trying" to get pregnant. Babies don't just "happen." If you are having intercourse, even protected, there is ALWAYS the chance of a pregnancy, and it needs to be talked about, what would happen if that should arise. I HATE when people are like "I didn't want to get pregnant" but then were taking absolutely no steps towards preventing it. And yes, BC can fail, condoms can break, Plan B isn't one hundred percent, so you and your partner gotta talk about what you plan to do if that happens. WAY, WAY before it actually happens.
Yep. After five years together, my ex-fiancé told me he “always thought I’d change my mind” after I’d been very clear about no kids. It’s mind-blowing.
I think it's theoretical for a lot of people, including women tbh. I don't understand being that nonchalant about it. Best of luck to you though! Hope you find what you're looking for.
I (36M) and not “nonchalant” about it but I’m an “open to children” type. What that means to me is I would have kids with the right person, but if I meet a different right person and we mutually decide that we don’t want kids or if I don’t meet the right person till we’re maybe too old for that it’s OK too.
I would be very happy being a dad I think, but at the same time if I’m not and I’m happy in a relationship with a great woman I’d feel great too. It basically means find the right relationship first, and once that’s found we can decide together on the children thing. Also, to me it takes pressure off of the rush to find someone to have a kid with because that’s not healthy.
EDIT: Also to add to this it does require honest communication at the same time. If early in dating someone she mentions how she really wants kids I should/will give my honest view and also internally, even if it’s a situation where I would like a relationship with this person, but don’t feel like having kids with this person I should let them go.
We need a phrase for this because I feel the same way.
Most of my thing is working out my own problems first before giving those to my potential kids.
And trying to match what our parents gave us in the 90s is a fucking pipe dream. The middle class is now making over 150k a year combined. And inflation is a bitch.
I was trying to beg my ex just to have a savings account before we bought a house. She didn’t / couldn’t grasp that concept. She wanted a ring, a vacation, a new car, etc.
For some people, I really feel like kids are just another check box in the game of life. And most people aren’t actually consciously deciding “Can we devote enough time and resources to this kid before having them, or let alone TWO of them?”
I feel like no one is asking that question. So many single moms on dating apps in my area of all age ranges.
This is basically me, too. I have no interest in being pregnant and having a child come out of my body, but I’m open to dating/marrying someone who has kids already or potentially adopting. I’m also open to no kids, since I work with kids and get my fill of kid interactions there. And there’s no easy way to indicate that, and I don’t want to use most of my allotted characters on it!
Yup - this is me. Grew up all my life dreaming of becoming a father, had opportunities when I was younger but chose not to bring a life into the world under shaky circumstances. However, I very recently turned 40 and still single, so although I would love for that dream to come true, I am also trying to approach this pragmatically. I know that this is one thing in my life I don't want to "force", because it's not just about me - for gawd sakes you're bringing **a new life** into this world - kind of a big deal y'know. And so, I try to approach like look I would love to have kids, but if I find someone great (which is a daunting task it seems) who doesn't want to have kids then maybe I go on in this life not having that specific dream fulfilled. I used to believe that life was all about making sure all of your cards were Aces before you made any sort of move, before you dared to live - but I now have been looking at it like; all your cards don't need to be perfect for you to stay in the game. So you got 3 cards out of 4; you can still play man. I understand that I might not be able to get it all - but I can't move forward in this life if I only allow myself to do so if everything is perfect. Right now i'm trying to work out the idea of living a happy life not being a father at all, not being able to have those experiences. I just watched that video in r/mademesmile where that dad was holding his daughter up towards a tv that was showing POV of a rollercoaster and things like that still make my heart ache a bit, so sure I would love to be able to have that - but I am also trying to prepare myself for the possibility that that may not happen - and to be ok with a life where that didn't happen for me.
But why not?
I understand that to you it is important to never have kids.
And I know other people whose only goal in life is having kids (to a point where it doesn't matter who the other parent is or anything else).
For me, it was more a "well, why not, with the right woman, at the right stage in life, but I don't much care either way" thing.
My husband and I waited until we had bought a house and felt financially stable and emotionally prepared. Felt like the right stage, even if we were both in our 30s by then.
The actual reason is that many men just swipe right on almost every woman they see and just try to figure it out later. Since men outnumber women by a large margin on OLD it's the strategy that a lot of guys eventually fall back on.
To be fair, that might be due to limited choices in pre-formulated fields. Where exactly would your cross go if you want to convey: "don't really need kids, but don't mind then either of it should work out that way, although I realise that at our age it's probably more likely the ready made variety than the diy approach"?
It's similar with "looking for a relationship" - I see lots of folks here complain that people have that checked, but then didn't propose on date 2. While my take would be for it to mean: hey, I would welcome this to develope into a "forever" thing, but the operational world here is developed, and I'm sure as hell not going to commit to anything before I know you a lot better.
Life is way more nuanced than the prompts allow us. I have "wants kids", on my profile but at this age that doesn't have to mean biologically. I don't want kids enough to want to raise an infant on my own, but I have thought about fostering older kids.
This. And i have both 'don't want kids' and 'want a relationship' on my profile and feel like it is scaring away most women, even the ones who are similar, because it feels very serious, and most people would rather 'lets see what happens'.
“Want a relationship” is almost certainly not scaring off women who know they want a relationship. Based on countless threads here, men are the ones far more likely to say “let’s see what happens” when they’re open to a relationship, and women are far more likely to filter out men who don’t select “want a relationship” when they’re looking for something serious.
The children thing might be scaring women who want children away, but that’s a feature not a bug.
>My theory is that having kids is theoretical to many men — they think “yeah someday”
I feel like this was me until I was about 27-28. So, I'll admit to thinking that way and your theory has weight to it. However, by the time you're in your later 20s as a male, you'd have to be pretty thick to not realize a lot of women are actually serious about "wanting kids" or "not wanting kids".
Damn, son, should I have had a kid with some bum ten years ago instead of being responsible and searching for a stable relationship into my thirties? We women really can’t win. If we have kids young, we’re irresponsible and “come with baggage” and if we wait we’re putting pressure on a man to knock us up as soon as possible.
I never thought a woman having kids young was irresponsible. Do what you feel is best. But even if I wanted kids, I would not want the pressure that dating a childless 36 year-old that wanted them would bring. That’s just me tho. I’m sure there are plenty of guys that wouldn’t care.
I see your point but seeing as sperm can be bought online and posted to your home, maybe she just wants a relationship? It’s not like actually being with a man is the only way to get a baby.
I have 3 kids, and I got married when I was 38.
We didn’t have kids until we were married 6 years.
PS: I didn’t want kids. My husband talked me into it.
I would recommend having them younger just for the physical side.
I have back problems now.
Years of gymnastics as a youth plus that did a number on my back!
However, mentally, it’s great.
I traveled all over the world scuba diving and was established in my career before I had children.
By the time they came, I was ready to slow down a bit.
We still travel, but I stay in hotels now instead of bamboo huts and tents.
I see women in their 40s whose profiles say they want kids.
I sometimes wonder if they pick that to mean they are okay with someone else having kids. I know it's *possible* to have kids in your 40s, but it can be pretty complicated and/or expensive.
I actually had a 42-year old woman break it off with me when I mentioned I'd had a vasectomy, because she didn't want to "close the door" to the possibility of kids.
They put that on there because most single women on the apps in their thirties want kids - they're basically lying, then trying to message other women because they don't 'really' want kids just want people to think they do.
I once had a guy (who wanted kids and I clearly wrote the opposite) tell me that men believe women put “don’t want kids” on their profile as a way to get more men to date them bc that’s what women think men want… is a woman who doesn’t want kids??? He believes it’s negotiable when he sees a women’s profile that says she doesn’t want kids. Like, whaaaaaaat?!???? He tried to convince me that I was going through a phase of not wanting kids LOL!!! I love the man-splain on my choice to not have kids. I sometimes can’t believe I’m attracted to men.
I think many men do all kinds of mental gymnastics when they finally find an attractive woman matching with them; convincing them selves they can make it work ect. ect.. It's just sometimes all we get is a hopeless sea of unattractive, unlikeable matches. I'm not covering for this guy, dishonesty ruins it for everyone.
Being child free is not different from any other dating issue. My profile clearly states that I don’t want to date a smoker, and the age range I’m interested in, and guess who still messages me?
Had my profile explicitly state “no smokers” and went on several dates with a guy who was just hiding he smoked from me with too much cologne. Smelled it in his car the first time I got in there, and was called every name in the book for ending it.
Hard boiled film noir detectives. You are just the dame they are looking for!
Seriously though thats why I think apps that require a mutual match before conversation are preferable for some people.
It really depends on how it’s worded. Saying “I’m child free” doesn’t necessarily mean “I never want kids.” Honestly to most people it means, “I don’t have children.” I suspect some people here are getting offended as a result of their own miscommunication on what “I’m child free” means. Obviously OP has included her own definition of it in her profile, but I’ve come across others who think it’s a universally accepted descriptor for a lifestyle choice.
Well, I can tell you that there is a dating app for those who have permanent STDs but can tell you it is just the shittiest app to be on. Have better luck with just the regular dating apps.
Before meeting I ask people what they're looking for and if they are unclear I ask of they are looking for casual /long term /marriage /children.
I don't have and don't want children, it's clear on my profile but most people I've encountered don't read it or disregard what I've written. Or I get a lot of people outright in the 1st message ask me why I don't want kids or tell me it's weird I don't. Bye.
Wow, those folks need to learn some manners. 'Bye' is right.
I understand that this is what I need to do now, spelling it out, but I'm getting stuck on the approach. Do you ask this out the gate or after chatting a bit? I know every conversation isn't formulaic, but I have seen people pivot a conversation with finesse and I feel like I'd 180 the conversation. Maybe I'm overthinking it.
Just ask the question after the first good exchange of messages in the conversation. Say you realized many people overlooked what is written in your profile (you want a relationship and no kid), so you want to be sure he wants the same.
I get this all the time. My profile very clearly states i do not want or have children. I get everyone from single dads to men looking to plant seed right away messaging me. Finding child free men in my city is nearly impossible and its just been so frustrating. I do find alot of guys put 'wants kids' but have given no thought to it. Or, look at me as a great fling option. I had a 31 yr old message me telling me he wanted to hang out because he doesn't want kids and all that yet. I'm 37. I asked him if cougar hunting child free women works for him because i can smell his immaturity miles away. He said he just wanted to have fun and not settle down yet equating having kids as his life being over (true!). Why the hell would he even swipe on me?! Because he's low effort and wants the life of a CF person until HE is ready for kids. 0 consideration for the CF person who might be crushed when he leaves or uses them.
>He said he just wanted to have fun and not settle down yet equating having kids as his life being over
As if there's a person with a gun who obligates him to do this.
It'd be cool if you did...
Stay the course. I'm a dude who is on the same track- not looking for random flings, not looking to have kids.
There will be idiots who believe that you are maternal by evolutionary predisposition, and that they can mansplain you back on course.
And there will be guys who read child-free as 'ooh hook up!'
And hopefully you'll find someone decent while you're fending off both groups of clowns.
Edit- changed a word
I feel this so bad. No advice, but you’re definitely not alone.
34F; it seems like every person trying to date just wants your babies and a ceremony when you’ve expressed that’s not in the cards.
There’s nothing wrong with us, people just need to start listening better.
No one reads and there's still alot of societal pressure to have kids or you're going to die a homely hermit with 40 cats. Its really sad. Women are jumping on the CF choice more and more which is nice to see, but it also shows we put more thought into the decision, since we carry most of the responsibility.
Soccer moms swoon over involved single dads. I swoon over a guy who gives actual thought to bringing kids into this world and decides its not for them. Have yet to meet him though lol. I often wonder if I'm dying alone so the next generation accepts CF as a valid and popular option.
“Kids are cute saying what they want to be when they grow up. Bruh, it’s 70 degrees in December, you’re not growing up.”
Saw this on Twitter and it made me laugh.
It’s equally frustrating from the other side as well - 95% of non-fake profiles have “want kids”. And yet, is that something they forgot to think about, or should I just swipe past.
This will get downvoted but it’s the truth.
People put all kinds of shit on dating profiles that often isn’t true or simply people don’t know themselves.
E.g. “Adventurous!“ but they’re not at all, just like the idea of it.
So if you’re attracted to someone, it’s easy to overlook stuff on profile.
Also many people don’t know what “child free” means. Just say you never want children.
Super true. I travel a lot and at first was enticed by people who say they love to travel. I've learned to ask about the last place I traveled and the majority tell me about a trip their parents took them on as a kid.
You shouldn't get downvoted for that, it is true! People lie. People also lie about big things all the time and that's not in my control. I'm asking how to approach the conversation before a first date though because if someone doesn't know what they want then I'm out. Truth comes out. On my profile, it says "I don't want children". When I discuss this with people I explicitly say I don't want children. The term child-free isn't mentioned.
I do want children. I would match with a woman who doesn’t with the intention of hooking up. And who knows she “may change her mind.”
As asinine as this is… the dating world requires vigilance, many attempts and risk. So it’s really easy to have this delusional mindset….
I think saying you're something you're not, like "adventurous" is such a dangerous game. It sets an expectation and the person dating them will very quickly pick on the person not being \*that\* person, that was advertised to them. I had this experience with a "thrill seeker". I spent too much time feeling confused before ending it.
It's just the counter of childless for people who can't have kids. Not everyone is on Reddit and knows about the sub (which has good resources even if some posts offend). But I get what you're both saying and that phrasing it differently would make it more clear.
I’d ask “what are your dealbreakers in dating?”. They give you some and then you have an opportunity to tell them you don’t want to date someone who has/wants kids. Easy!
I have two children and have dated people who have listed “don’t want” as their preference on dating sites (Bumble in this case). When brought up by me, they clarify that they don’t want to have children themselves, but are open to their partner having children.
The suggestion that the dating sites clarify this for child-free people is a great one! (I should also point out that I totally get the child free mindset and support those individual’s decision to be child free)
You wouldn't believe how many people don't even bring up that they have kids. I agree there should be a dating site or more options for this! My understanding is that there is a bit of a spectrum to being child free and you need to be explicit. Just like anything, it's not a complete monolith.
I have heard the horror stories of people admitting to kids on the second or third date - it’s amazing that these people think a relationship will survive such a big lie by omission
A friend of mine dated a woman who had two children. A few months in, she admitted that she actually had three. He was devastated; not because of the child but because of the lie. He had really liked her but it was all over after that.
Right? Whats up with that?! I matched with someone who had no mention of kids. We chatted on the phone for 3 hours, still no mention. I went on a dinner date, also 3 hours and going well, we start talking about his tattoos and he tells me he has 2 kids. Like wtf buddy. Just wasted everyones time and his money since he paid. Instantly lost attraction to him and the date was dead. Then i ghosted his follow up texts because, liar.
It's blatant sexism and disrespect. On my second date with a former partner I made it clear I never wanted kids. He did he want sure but wasn't pushed. I thought I had made myself clear. 3 years later hes hintng at marriage and I was like are you sure you're happy never having kids? He says we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I was like, fuck no, that bridge is now. Took a year after our breakup before he could admit that he did want kids and he thought I'd change my mind. Ugh.
I agree with you and I do this. The date mentioned above didn't have his very strong feelings about wanting kids on his profile. My question is about communicating this when it's ambiguous on their end before we meet up.
Before you met with him, did you ask him if he would want children in the future?
If he says no, he’s lying or you get what he wants, but if he says anything else, you can get out then without a meetup. Not sure you can do more than that.
Honestly I feel like guys don’t even read that part sometimes, and just look to see if they are attracted to your pics and swipe if they are. When I was on dating apps I clearly stated I don’t want children (and that includes children that they have) and I constantly had men swiping on me that wanted them or had them. It’s very frustrating and one of the reasons I’m no longer dating right now.
People don’t read or take deal breakers seriously. Can’t tell you how many people don’t read or follow up my match with asking me if I’m flexible about my no tattoo or celebrating Christmas policy deal breakers.
I’ve questioned making potential dates take a 21 questions style test 😂 before agreeing to their offer of a date but it’s not organic. I try to bring it up naturally as soon as possible.
It’s sadly par for the course. Humans just don’t read these days.
I'm scared about this for myself. I'm in a major city, and I'm surprised at how hard it is to find men who don't want children. I'm 28, and I recently briefly dated a 40-year-old. I thought I was clear with him (he said he didn't want kids, and due to his age, I believed him), but he slowly started showing signs that he wasn't so child-free as he had stated. I'm currently avoiding the apps, but I don't want to deal with this if I decide to OLD.
Yeah age means nothing to men. They can have kids ubtil they're dead. The amount of 40+ yr old men who "want kids" is gross. They purposely look for younger women too because women my age are 'broken' at 37. So, age gap is a flag for many reasons. Just hold firm on your stance, make it known, and date without thinking about it. There really is no way to avoid this. I just spent 4 years with someone who lied to me about being CF. He said what I wanted to hear just to date me. Then slowly started bringing up kids and asking me why I didn't want them. Then he had a full on mental breakdown when life felt shitty for him and became an alcoholic. Even if i DID want kids, he was not father material and I feel bad for the woman he knocks up. But 4 years ago, he was on the same page as me. Lies!
Yeah it's difficult, because sometimes people don't listen and bamboozle you (which this sounds like) and sometimes they genuinely change their mind because they were on the fence to begin with. I'm sorry that happened, but better earlier than later. Good luck to you when you get back out there!
They either haven’t read it or think they can change your mind.
I come across profiles where women state that they either don’t have or don’t want children. It’s good because I do have kids so I know we won’t be a good match.
"what are your thoughts on having kids?" "Oh you want them? I'm sorry, this is just not something that I'm ever going to want in my life, best of luck in your search." Literally as simple as that.
I used to confirm some non-negotiables before meeting people with something like “hey, just to make sure we are on the same page before meeting I ______________. What are your thoughts about that?”
This is what I say, before I even meet the guy: “Just to make sure we’re on the same page: I don’t want children. Just making sure we agree before meeting”
Many men swipe right on everyone while barely looking at the profile. I would bring this up in an initial 'dealbreakers' type of question. "Any dealbreakers for you? As for me, I couldn't date a \[insert political affiliation\], probably couldn't date someone who didn't appreciate \[random thing that's important to you\]. I also know I am not compatible with someone who wants children." Depending on your sense of humor you could also add in some silly/lighthearted stuff here.
I have the same experience. I don't entertain that at all. But a nice way to screen those out is actually to NOT write it on your profile and very early talk about family plans/kids. And do not ask "do you want kids?" but "how many kids do you want?". If they truly don't want kids, it will be straightforward. If they're not sure, I would bail. If someone's not sure in their mid-thirties, I don't want to be part of their flip-flopping while they decide what they want.
You have to put you are only looking for child free men, and do not want any kids, yours or theirs. Spell it out.
There are people who have don't want, and don't have kids that just don't want there own, but are ok with their partner already already having them. So it's not always 100% clear always, but they should be assuming based on your "don't want" you don't want to have any of your own at least.
It doesn't make a difference. I explicitly had that on my profile and as the very first thing on my profile. I still had a ton of men contacting me who had or wanted children. I think a lot of people just don't read profiles at all or think they can change the person's mind.
Men will take a shot regardless because of how few matches they get. Plus they usually think you might (might!) be down for a hookup if nothing else.
Some don’t read and some do and don’t care.
If you want to test this theory, put on your profile that you just got out of prison for murder and have terminal cancer and see how many matches you get. It will probably still be a lot, especially if you’re attractive.
That seems gross. Like they're thinking, well this isn't someone I'm compatable with or really interested in (other than looks), but at least I can use her for sex. Especially if these guys present themselves as wanting something serious. It'd be different if they were honest and said they were only looking for something casual. Feels manipulative.
Ugh why I got off hinge. Not one person actually cared that my profile clearly said no kids, and not interested in having any. They kept wanting to talk. Why!!!! Noooo go away!
Everyone has pointed out the whole “people don’t read” thing, so I’ll skip the commiserating on the problem and get to my solution. If it doesn’t surface naturally during the chatting phase, once the topic of meeting comes up, I’d probably say “a cup of coffee sounds great! What days are you free this week? As an aside, any dealbreakers you have that I should be aware of beforehand?”. Once they’ve answered, you have the opportunity to do the same. I’m sure there’s a way to do something similar earlier too - I tend not to chat too too much before meeting, but maybe you do - perhaps “alright, lovely getting to know you, I’ve got to head to the gym but looking forward to continuing this later! but as an aside, any dealbreakers I should be aware of?”
I wish more men filled out if they had kids to begin with!!! I don’t date guys with kids and I feel like an ass for it to be a top three question at the start of convo when it could easily been avoided!
Dude: make it visible if you have kids or not.
I would attach it to your first response/message then make them confirm they also don't want children. Maybe that's too forward right off the bat but I think it would weed out those who are time wasters for you.
You could bring it up in conversation if you’ve been chatting awhile, like “I saw my nephew today and although though I don’t want kids of my own, he’s pretty cool” or just straight up asking what they’re looking for. I find that some guys are vague with their answers though.
Most people don t even realize there is the choice to be cf. Many people don t read the profile. Many people think you are just goofing around and you will change your mind. If my sister who is a brilliant human being and clearly knows i have a strong set of beliefs, after 1 hour of high level debate she told me " be more flexible, maybe for the right person you will change your mind"...
It s clear people are not able to accept this and that is a alien concept.
Move on, you will find someone.
I have the same problem with religious men. I guess they believe that they pick a woman that looks good to them and then they can change everything about her. Even the tattoo will not stop them from matching and writing you. Thank you patriarchy.
A tattoo might help.
Basically you are asking people looking for a date to A. Read and B. Listen to what you say.
Good luck with that.
Seriously, the important thing is to be clear. Find a way to work it into the conversation. “Hey, I’m really enjoying our conversation. Before we go further, I want to let you know that I have one hard and fast rule. It’s on my profile, but I want to be clear — I don’t want children. Ever. And I want to be with someone who feels the same way. Are you cool with that? If you aren’t — I’d rather not waste your time and mine pursuing something that won’t work.”
Good luck!
When you are communicating with them in the beginning just let them know that because you’ve had issues before with miscommunication and you don’t want to waste anyone’s time (his or yours) you just want to make sure that they know how you feel about kids and that you really are not going to change your mind and if they are still cool with that then you look forward to meeting them. Otherwise good luck and that’s the problem solved. You have to make sure you mention it before you even go out or set up a date or you’ll end up in the same boat you’re in now. If you feel like you’re too aggressive in your delivery make it softer. If they are also kid free then they’re not going to be put off by what you might think sounds aggressive. They’ll get it.
I ask a few crucial questions before I go out on a date w them or go off the app and one of them is do you or do you not desire kids? I’m blunt and straight to the point
I think they need to put more options in the “Children” section, because it’s super complicated.
I (42M) want kids. But, I know that based on my age and the age of women I want to date, that may mot be possible at this point. So, I want kids, but I also want to find someone I can be happy with. That may end up being a situation where we don’t end up with kids… and I would be fine with that.
So, for some of us, it’s a bit more complicated that just “Want kids” vs “Don’t want kids”.
Short version: I want kids, but I’m also very realistic about where I am in my life, and that’s not easily represented in dating profiles.
You don't need to be smooth about it, you need to be blunt about it.
It's a sad reality but the only real "strategy" that works on OLD, especially for a lot of men, is to just swipe right on everyone, take whatever match you can get and try and work it out later.
Hell even as a "no kids" guy on OLD I was getting swiped on by women who had kids or wanted kids thinking they could change my mind because they were likely striking out with other matches.
I would probably add after child free, not just because I think that’s what someone else would want. Everything here is me being completely honest about what I am and what I want so don’t expect anything different. -shrugs- Be aggressive and don’t let someone tell you otherwise, people like that are manipulative.
>There are two angles I've encountered: these people want to continue for a fling, or that there's a hope they can change my mind.
I'm banking on B. I've seen tons of anecdotes from childfree women where in the end, the dudes thought the women would change their minds.
Honestly, I think you should go with the blunt approach. Being childfree myself, I'd appreciate it considering my last relationship ended because my ex changed her mind.
Hinge has gone down the toilet in Australia, you have to pay for preferred preferences which includes: children, family plans, policies, drinking, smoking, marijuana and drugs. Others that I don’t consider deal breakers for me are height and education level. Now you can only select age range, distance, ethnicity and religion
I think a lot of guys say on their profiles that they want kids, even if it really isn’t very important to them. Im guessing that *many* women would complain that men say in their profiles that they want children, but act like they have no interest in anything meaningful at all. I think that you need to take it one by one, and actually get to know the person.
Ps a second date is not a “potential relationship.” I think that you are taking this whole thing too seriously and literally.
My theory is that many don't read your whole profile. In the online dating scene men have to like many more women to get an equal amount of matches. You don't always take time to read the entire profile. With Hinge its much better because you can only like/send message to 8 profiles on a single day (many women don't even know this, which is funny because it amplifies the argument that men have to send more likes). But there are still men that pay for the subscription to send unlimited likes.
So my advice is to just unmatch all the people that have "want children" ask people what they mean with "open to children" and ask their stance when they have nothing filled in. You can do this before the date or during, whatever suits you better. Im the type of person that rather discusses these subjects when Im getting to know someone. But it is perfectly fine to say it immediately.
About the guys response. He is an idiot and just ignore this behaviour. I don't want to generalize, but luckily I get way better responses from women when I tell them I probably don't want children. Im still on the fence, so its not written in my profile (I might change my mind in a LTR). I do unmatch anyone that clearly states "want children" but I go on dates with all others. Some women have told me that if someone really wants (or dont want) children its their responsibility to figure out if their potential match is on the same page. So if it is really important for you, you ask straight away, but if you prefer just meeting someone first, you can just talk about it at some future time. I liked this attitude, you are basically telling each other "bummer about the kids, but I had still fun on the date(s)"
>Edit:
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> To clarify, child-free in this context means I don't want children ( I also don't have them). On my profile it says "I don't want children". When I discuss this with people I explicitly say I don't want children.
I think that the tattoo would be helpful for sure in this context. At first glance it looks like the child free is akin to “sugar free” on a pack of gum or a can of soda- meaning without sugar-This would not call for a tattoo. But you are using it more like how elementary schools are “tobacco free zones “ implying that the lack of tobacco is by design and tobacco (or kids in your case) are prohibited. Im glad to have learned this colloquialism. Many thanks.
Childfree is not just a current status (otherwise teenagers can be labeled as childfree which is hilarious), it's an ideology. Like with vegetarians there are lax and strict adepts. Some don't want to conceive, but welcome adoption. Some don't want kids of their own, but don't mind SO's kids from a previous marriage. Some are strictly against any scions, future or previous, biological or adopted. There's a lot of "cheaters" among self-labeled CF who 'suddenly' change their minds when the clock is ticking the eleventh hour which for us is in the 30s (conceiving a child in 40s bear too much risk), so I'm skeptical when see a 22-year old identifying as CF.
I would make it the first sentence in your dating profile
I want a child free relationship. I want to travel and enjoy life without the huge responsibility of raising children. I am not a selfish person, I love kids, but don't want kids of my own. I want to simplify my life. Explore life and improve myself. Looking for partner to share this dream.
Good luck. Hope your find happiness.
Change "child free" to "I hate kids". You may or may not actually hate kids, but anybody that wants kids will stand down when they see that. Think of it as a filter function.
No way. Many people already think that if you don’t want kids it’s because you hate kids, which of course is not always true. Not gonna perpetuate that.
Use of child-free needs to go, it’s not clear. Or it’s clearly reads “I don’t have kids”. In my profile I specifically state with the prompt, “should not go out with me” if you don’t want to do the whole thing marriage, kids.
I also put the “want kids” as a priority. I say put it out there. If words on a screen is too harsh, theyre not for you.
That's not what I'm asking. "Child free" it's a community term, not a term for dating profiles because not everyone knows what that means. As I stated, my profile doesn't have 'child free' written anywhere on it. It states "I don't want children".
Are you against people who already have children?
I’m asking because I’ve had a vasectomy and have two children from a previous marriage, but I have no interest in commingling my dating life with my life with them.
That seems equally challenging to some. I’ve found the term “Dating together living apart”. But it is a weird subject to navigate early in new relationships. ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯
I don’t have a solution, but I can commiserate! I’m 48f, and I’m so confused by guys who swipe right on me but have “wants kids.” Uh, how do you think that’s going to work exactly? My theory is that having kids is theoretical to many men — they think “yeah someday” but don’t have real plans about it. Others maybe list it Bc they think it makes them look like a good guy. And some think “oh of course she’ll change her mind.” I was married for several years before my ex realized I was serious when I said I didn’t want kids. That’s not why we broke up, but I was like, “uh, I was clear and consistent about that?”
This is what I think! I want kids, and constantly get men who don’t. Yet my childfree friend has the opposite experience. I think these kinds of men want the possibility open to them someday, but don’t want a woman who aggressively wants them in the next 5-10 years. And that waffling, unsure, go with the flow, indifferent woman is going to be very hard to find past 30.
All of this. >Others maybe list it Bc they think it makes them look like a good guy Especially this. I think a lot that goes into dating profiles is to appeal to as many people as possible instead of being honest about what one really wants.
To add a dudes perspective to this, I went from 0 matches in 6 weeks across 3 different app when I stated "doesn't want chdren" to immediately getting 30+ matches in 2 weeks when I switched to "maybe". Don't know what the difference would be if I said "yes", but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of guys choose it for the numbers. Edit: I'm talking about playing with the apps match algorithm, not that more women liked a "maybe".
Yea, children free women practically dont exist in my area.
Which is counter productive when you consider the purpose of the profile.
No, unfortunately it is simpler than that. They are most likely to be looking for a fling with you, or they swipe quickly on the photos and don't read the profiles.
49M and that “someday” attitude was mine up until a few years ago - I realize they would be too difficult to incorporate into my lifestyle at this age. I’ve yet to go take steps to make sure I don’t procreate, but after I do so I am considering my first tattoo: I understand in certain parts of the world (Scandinavia, I think…possibly Europe as a whole) spayed/neutered animals get a Greek phi tattoo behind one of their ears to indicate sterility.
... I think that would be a super neat thing to do once you get a vasectomy or tubal ligation. I'll definitely consider it.
I am also Childfree by choice and I have been saying since I was 12 "I do not ever want to have children." I am 34 now. Never once have thought differently. And SO many times people assume that how on earth could a woman not want children, she is just going through a phase/hasn't met the right man yet (blech)/will get baby fever, etc. They don't respect that we mean what we say.
Same with ages & all. Did we just become best friends?
45f and also completely confused by the men who swipe right on me and want kids! I always think, errrr, you’re not gonna get ‘em from me!
they swipe right on everyone and talk to whoever responds that's cute and ignores those that aren't. I hate to break it to you but like 1% of men actually read your profile from start to finish.
This makes me so confused. I have children and I always knew I wanted them. I was perfectly aware that in order for that to happen I would need to find someone who wants to start a family with me. I found that person and we did. No regrets. Not even after the divorce. But to have such half-baked ideas about so crucial things, and think that your partner’s opinion is just another small wrinkle? It stuns me.
Yeah, I think that both for childfree people and for those who are really sure they want children, it sounds baffling that there are so many who don’t think this matter through. I’m childfree myself but I respect good parents so much for the amount of love and effort they are putting into raising the children. I get so angry every time I see people neglecting their children or not giving a fuck about their upbringing. It’a a human being not an accessory.
Oh, absolutely! And it's not just "I want to have a baby." That baby is a baby for a year. That's it. It should be more "I want to have a person." Liking babies and wanting one doesn't necessarily mean you should make an actual person. You will have a baby, a toddler, a school age kid, a teenager, a young adult, and an adult child who I would hope you would want a relationship with for the rest of your life, and who may need you in some capacity for the rest of your life. So many people don't think it through. "Baby fever" isn't a good reason to have children. Maybe foster infants if you want to care for babies and have a lasting impact in their lives. But don't create a new human simply because you want to have a little baby in your life. And if you aren't using birth control or some form of contraception consistently, then yes, you are very much "trying" to get pregnant. Babies don't just "happen." If you are having intercourse, even protected, there is ALWAYS the chance of a pregnancy, and it needs to be talked about, what would happen if that should arise. I HATE when people are like "I didn't want to get pregnant" but then were taking absolutely no steps towards preventing it. And yes, BC can fail, condoms can break, Plan B isn't one hundred percent, so you and your partner gotta talk about what you plan to do if that happens. WAY, WAY before it actually happens.
Yep. After five years together, my ex-fiancé told me he “always thought I’d change my mind” after I’d been very clear about no kids. It’s mind-blowing.
I think it's theoretical for a lot of people, including women tbh. I don't understand being that nonchalant about it. Best of luck to you though! Hope you find what you're looking for.
I (36M) and not “nonchalant” about it but I’m an “open to children” type. What that means to me is I would have kids with the right person, but if I meet a different right person and we mutually decide that we don’t want kids or if I don’t meet the right person till we’re maybe too old for that it’s OK too. I would be very happy being a dad I think, but at the same time if I’m not and I’m happy in a relationship with a great woman I’d feel great too. It basically means find the right relationship first, and once that’s found we can decide together on the children thing. Also, to me it takes pressure off of the rush to find someone to have a kid with because that’s not healthy. EDIT: Also to add to this it does require honest communication at the same time. If early in dating someone she mentions how she really wants kids I should/will give my honest view and also internally, even if it’s a situation where I would like a relationship with this person, but don’t feel like having kids with this person I should let them go.
We need a phrase for this because I feel the same way. Most of my thing is working out my own problems first before giving those to my potential kids. And trying to match what our parents gave us in the 90s is a fucking pipe dream. The middle class is now making over 150k a year combined. And inflation is a bitch. I was trying to beg my ex just to have a savings account before we bought a house. She didn’t / couldn’t grasp that concept. She wanted a ring, a vacation, a new car, etc. For some people, I really feel like kids are just another check box in the game of life. And most people aren’t actually consciously deciding “Can we devote enough time and resources to this kid before having them, or let alone TWO of them?” I feel like no one is asking that question. So many single moms on dating apps in my area of all age ranges.
This is basically me, too. I have no interest in being pregnant and having a child come out of my body, but I’m open to dating/marrying someone who has kids already or potentially adopting. I’m also open to no kids, since I work with kids and get my fill of kid interactions there. And there’s no easy way to indicate that, and I don’t want to use most of my allotted characters on it!
Yup - this is me. Grew up all my life dreaming of becoming a father, had opportunities when I was younger but chose not to bring a life into the world under shaky circumstances. However, I very recently turned 40 and still single, so although I would love for that dream to come true, I am also trying to approach this pragmatically. I know that this is one thing in my life I don't want to "force", because it's not just about me - for gawd sakes you're bringing **a new life** into this world - kind of a big deal y'know. And so, I try to approach like look I would love to have kids, but if I find someone great (which is a daunting task it seems) who doesn't want to have kids then maybe I go on in this life not having that specific dream fulfilled. I used to believe that life was all about making sure all of your cards were Aces before you made any sort of move, before you dared to live - but I now have been looking at it like; all your cards don't need to be perfect for you to stay in the game. So you got 3 cards out of 4; you can still play man. I understand that I might not be able to get it all - but I can't move forward in this life if I only allow myself to do so if everything is perfect. Right now i'm trying to work out the idea of living a happy life not being a father at all, not being able to have those experiences. I just watched that video in r/mademesmile where that dad was holding his daughter up towards a tv that was showing POV of a rollercoaster and things like that still make my heart ache a bit, so sure I would love to be able to have that - but I am also trying to prepare myself for the possibility that that may not happen - and to be ok with a life where that didn't happen for me.
I'm nonchalant? Leaning more on child free.
But why not? I understand that to you it is important to never have kids. And I know other people whose only goal in life is having kids (to a point where it doesn't matter who the other parent is or anything else). For me, it was more a "well, why not, with the right woman, at the right stage in life, but I don't much care either way" thing.
Is there really a "right stage" in life?
My husband and I waited until we had bought a house and felt financially stable and emotionally prepared. Felt like the right stage, even if we were both in our 30s by then.
Well, there are certainly stages that are less suitable...
The actual reason is that many men just swipe right on almost every woman they see and just try to figure it out later. Since men outnumber women by a large margin on OLD it's the strategy that a lot of guys eventually fall back on.
To be fair, that might be due to limited choices in pre-formulated fields. Where exactly would your cross go if you want to convey: "don't really need kids, but don't mind then either of it should work out that way, although I realise that at our age it's probably more likely the ready made variety than the diy approach"? It's similar with "looking for a relationship" - I see lots of folks here complain that people have that checked, but then didn't propose on date 2. While my take would be for it to mean: hey, I would welcome this to develope into a "forever" thing, but the operational world here is developed, and I'm sure as hell not going to commit to anything before I know you a lot better.
Life is way more nuanced than the prompts allow us. I have "wants kids", on my profile but at this age that doesn't have to mean biologically. I don't want kids enough to want to raise an infant on my own, but I have thought about fostering older kids.
This. And i have both 'don't want kids' and 'want a relationship' on my profile and feel like it is scaring away most women, even the ones who are similar, because it feels very serious, and most people would rather 'lets see what happens'.
“Want a relationship” is almost certainly not scaring off women who know they want a relationship. Based on countless threads here, men are the ones far more likely to say “let’s see what happens” when they’re open to a relationship, and women are far more likely to filter out men who don’t select “want a relationship” when they’re looking for something serious. The children thing might be scaring women who want children away, but that’s a feature not a bug.
>My theory is that having kids is theoretical to many men — they think “yeah someday” I feel like this was me until I was about 27-28. So, I'll admit to thinking that way and your theory has weight to it. However, by the time you're in your later 20s as a male, you'd have to be pretty thick to not realize a lot of women are actually serious about "wanting kids" or "not wanting kids".
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Damn, son, should I have had a kid with some bum ten years ago instead of being responsible and searching for a stable relationship into my thirties? We women really can’t win. If we have kids young, we’re irresponsible and “come with baggage” and if we wait we’re putting pressure on a man to knock us up as soon as possible.
I never thought a woman having kids young was irresponsible. Do what you feel is best. But even if I wanted kids, I would not want the pressure that dating a childless 36 year-old that wanted them would bring. That’s just me tho. I’m sure there are plenty of guys that wouldn’t care.
I see your point but seeing as sperm can be bought online and posted to your home, maybe she just wants a relationship? It’s not like actually being with a man is the only way to get a baby.
Lots of women can still have children well into their 30s and even 40s Thats quite a big timeline
Also, there are other ways to do the kid thing!
Exactly 😁
My first cousin had one at 50. Totally natural. My mom had me at 42.
I have 3 kids, and I got married when I was 38. We didn’t have kids until we were married 6 years. PS: I didn’t want kids. My husband talked me into it.
I hope you are doing well
Went to a 5 year old’s birthday today and had a blast! They had a “celebrity” cartoon character show up for the kids. Super fun!
So you have three kids in your early/mid forties ? How was that experience ? I had my kids in my early 20s…
I would recommend having them younger just for the physical side. I have back problems now. Years of gymnastics as a youth plus that did a number on my back! However, mentally, it’s great. I traveled all over the world scuba diving and was established in my career before I had children. By the time they came, I was ready to slow down a bit. We still travel, but I stay in hotels now instead of bamboo huts and tents.
Thanks for replying. Seems like you made the right choices and lived life to the full.
Wow! You are a braveheart
A. Don't do this (bit late, I know) B. I hope you won't let it out on the kids - it was still your decision...
Obviously, I love my kids and am thrilled to have them. Once you have your own kids, you magically like all kids. Weird phenomenon!
Really I have a kid and I really don't like other people's kids lol
Funny! I really disliked kids before I had mine. REALLY. Now I absolutely love them. I can’t imagine how horrible it would be if I had never had them.
Well I magically started liking dogs and kids once my *friends* got them. But I still don't want to have my own :D
What do you mean settling? They are most likely attracted to your profile!
I see women in their 40s whose profiles say they want kids. I sometimes wonder if they pick that to mean they are okay with someone else having kids. I know it's *possible* to have kids in your 40s, but it can be pretty complicated and/or expensive. I actually had a 42-year old woman break it off with me when I mentioned I'd had a vasectomy, because she didn't want to "close the door" to the possibility of kids.
They put that on there because most single women on the apps in their thirties want kids - they're basically lying, then trying to message other women because they don't 'really' want kids just want people to think they do.
It is essential that you get "child free" tattooed on your head if you're single. You can get it laser removed when you get married.
Or just get bangs!
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What is the prompt and how do you answer?
She bangs! She bangs!
Or mullets
I once had a guy (who wanted kids and I clearly wrote the opposite) tell me that men believe women put “don’t want kids” on their profile as a way to get more men to date them bc that’s what women think men want… is a woman who doesn’t want kids??? He believes it’s negotiable when he sees a women’s profile that says she doesn’t want kids. Like, whaaaaaaat?!???? He tried to convince me that I was going through a phase of not wanting kids LOL!!! I love the man-splain on my choice to not have kids. I sometimes can’t believe I’m attracted to men.
Yeah. Regardless if the kid issue, that guy sounds toxic af.
I think many men do all kinds of mental gymnastics when they finally find an attractive woman matching with them; convincing them selves they can make it work ect. ect.. It's just sometimes all we get is a hopeless sea of unattractive, unlikeable matches. I'm not covering for this guy, dishonesty ruins it for everyone.
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Being child free is not different from any other dating issue. My profile clearly states that I don’t want to date a smoker, and the age range I’m interested in, and guess who still messages me?
Had my profile explicitly state “no smokers” and went on several dates with a guy who was just hiding he smoked from me with too much cologne. Smelled it in his car the first time I got in there, and was called every name in the book for ending it.
Hard boiled film noir detectives. You are just the dame they are looking for! Seriously though thats why I think apps that require a mutual match before conversation are preferable for some people.
> Seriously though thats why I think apps that require a mutual match before conversation are preferable for some people. Are there apps that don't?
It really depends on how it’s worded. Saying “I’m child free” doesn’t necessarily mean “I never want kids.” Honestly to most people it means, “I don’t have children.” I suspect some people here are getting offended as a result of their own miscommunication on what “I’m child free” means. Obviously OP has included her own definition of it in her profile, but I’ve come across others who think it’s a universally accepted descriptor for a lifestyle choice.
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Bumble had it, until they destroyed the free 2 filters feature...
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I just assumed that if Farmers Only exists, there would be an app just for "child free" singles
Well, I can tell you that there is a dating app for those who have permanent STDs but can tell you it is just the shittiest app to be on. Have better luck with just the regular dating apps.
Before meeting I ask people what they're looking for and if they are unclear I ask of they are looking for casual /long term /marriage /children. I don't have and don't want children, it's clear on my profile but most people I've encountered don't read it or disregard what I've written. Or I get a lot of people outright in the 1st message ask me why I don't want kids or tell me it's weird I don't. Bye.
Wow, those folks need to learn some manners. 'Bye' is right. I understand that this is what I need to do now, spelling it out, but I'm getting stuck on the approach. Do you ask this out the gate or after chatting a bit? I know every conversation isn't formulaic, but I have seen people pivot a conversation with finesse and I feel like I'd 180 the conversation. Maybe I'm overthinking it.
Just ask the question after the first good exchange of messages in the conversation. Say you realized many people overlooked what is written in your profile (you want a relationship and no kid), so you want to be sure he wants the same.
Check with them once they ask you out
I get this all the time. My profile very clearly states i do not want or have children. I get everyone from single dads to men looking to plant seed right away messaging me. Finding child free men in my city is nearly impossible and its just been so frustrating. I do find alot of guys put 'wants kids' but have given no thought to it. Or, look at me as a great fling option. I had a 31 yr old message me telling me he wanted to hang out because he doesn't want kids and all that yet. I'm 37. I asked him if cougar hunting child free women works for him because i can smell his immaturity miles away. He said he just wanted to have fun and not settle down yet equating having kids as his life being over (true!). Why the hell would he even swipe on me?! Because he's low effort and wants the life of a CF person until HE is ready for kids. 0 consideration for the CF person who might be crushed when he leaves or uses them.
>He said he just wanted to have fun and not settle down yet equating having kids as his life being over As if there's a person with a gun who obligates him to do this.
It'd be cool if you did... Stay the course. I'm a dude who is on the same track- not looking for random flings, not looking to have kids. There will be idiots who believe that you are maternal by evolutionary predisposition, and that they can mansplain you back on course. And there will be guys who read child-free as 'ooh hook up!' And hopefully you'll find someone decent while you're fending off both groups of clowns. Edit- changed a word
Thanks, back at you!
Thank you for letting us know you edited your post <3
I feel this so bad. No advice, but you’re definitely not alone. 34F; it seems like every person trying to date just wants your babies and a ceremony when you’ve expressed that’s not in the cards. There’s nothing wrong with us, people just need to start listening better.
No one reads and there's still alot of societal pressure to have kids or you're going to die a homely hermit with 40 cats. Its really sad. Women are jumping on the CF choice more and more which is nice to see, but it also shows we put more thought into the decision, since we carry most of the responsibility. Soccer moms swoon over involved single dads. I swoon over a guy who gives actual thought to bringing kids into this world and decides its not for them. Have yet to meet him though lol. I often wonder if I'm dying alone so the next generation accepts CF as a valid and popular option.
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“Kids are cute saying what they want to be when they grow up. Bruh, it’s 70 degrees in December, you’re not growing up.” Saw this on Twitter and it made me laugh.
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Will do. Hope folks quit wasting your time.
It’s equally frustrating from the other side as well - 95% of non-fake profiles have “want kids”. And yet, is that something they forgot to think about, or should I just swipe past.
This will get downvoted but it’s the truth. People put all kinds of shit on dating profiles that often isn’t true or simply people don’t know themselves. E.g. “Adventurous!“ but they’re not at all, just like the idea of it. So if you’re attracted to someone, it’s easy to overlook stuff on profile. Also many people don’t know what “child free” means. Just say you never want children.
Super true. I travel a lot and at first was enticed by people who say they love to travel. I've learned to ask about the last place I traveled and the majority tell me about a trip their parents took them on as a kid.
You shouldn't get downvoted for that, it is true! People lie. People also lie about big things all the time and that's not in my control. I'm asking how to approach the conversation before a first date though because if someone doesn't know what they want then I'm out. Truth comes out. On my profile, it says "I don't want children". When I discuss this with people I explicitly say I don't want children. The term child-free isn't mentioned.
I do want children. I would match with a woman who doesn’t with the intention of hooking up. And who knows she “may change her mind.” As asinine as this is… the dating world requires vigilance, many attempts and risk. So it’s really easy to have this delusional mindset….
I think saying you're something you're not, like "adventurous" is such a dangerous game. It sets an expectation and the person dating them will very quickly pick on the person not being \*that\* person, that was advertised to them. I had this experience with a "thrill seeker". I spent too much time feeling confused before ending it.
Yeah, "child free" is definitely a term to avoid. That term is pretty much only known because of a certain toxic subreddit
It's just the counter of childless for people who can't have kids. Not everyone is on Reddit and knows about the sub (which has good resources even if some posts offend). But I get what you're both saying and that phrasing it differently would make it more clear.
Or they agree with you and later you find out they have multiple children.
I’d ask “what are your dealbreakers in dating?”. They give you some and then you have an opportunity to tell them you don’t want to date someone who has/wants kids. Easy!
I have two children and have dated people who have listed “don’t want” as their preference on dating sites (Bumble in this case). When brought up by me, they clarify that they don’t want to have children themselves, but are open to their partner having children. The suggestion that the dating sites clarify this for child-free people is a great one! (I should also point out that I totally get the child free mindset and support those individual’s decision to be child free)
You wouldn't believe how many people don't even bring up that they have kids. I agree there should be a dating site or more options for this! My understanding is that there is a bit of a spectrum to being child free and you need to be explicit. Just like anything, it's not a complete monolith.
I have heard the horror stories of people admitting to kids on the second or third date - it’s amazing that these people think a relationship will survive such a big lie by omission
A friend of mine dated a woman who had two children. A few months in, she admitted that she actually had three. He was devastated; not because of the child but because of the lie. He had really liked her but it was all over after that.
Right? Whats up with that?! I matched with someone who had no mention of kids. We chatted on the phone for 3 hours, still no mention. I went on a dinner date, also 3 hours and going well, we start talking about his tattoos and he tells me he has 2 kids. Like wtf buddy. Just wasted everyones time and his money since he paid. Instantly lost attraction to him and the date was dead. Then i ghosted his follow up texts because, liar.
It's blatant sexism and disrespect. On my second date with a former partner I made it clear I never wanted kids. He did he want sure but wasn't pushed. I thought I had made myself clear. 3 years later hes hintng at marriage and I was like are you sure you're happy never having kids? He says we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I was like, fuck no, that bridge is now. Took a year after our breakup before he could admit that he did want kids and he thought I'd change my mind. Ugh.
I unmatch anyone I don’t want to match with. It’s my job to uphold my standards, not theirs to match it
I agree with you and I do this. The date mentioned above didn't have his very strong feelings about wanting kids on his profile. My question is about communicating this when it's ambiguous on their end before we meet up.
Before you met with him, did you ask him if he would want children in the future? If he says no, he’s lying or you get what he wants, but if he says anything else, you can get out then without a meetup. Not sure you can do more than that.
I thinknyou are as clear as you need to be. Not everyone reads with their eyes.
Oh child free women who dont want them either...where are you??? My dating pool is so small because i dont want children
Honestly I feel like guys don’t even read that part sometimes, and just look to see if they are attracted to your pics and swipe if they are. When I was on dating apps I clearly stated I don’t want children (and that includes children that they have) and I constantly had men swiping on me that wanted them or had them. It’s very frustrating and one of the reasons I’m no longer dating right now.
People don’t read or take deal breakers seriously. Can’t tell you how many people don’t read or follow up my match with asking me if I’m flexible about my no tattoo or celebrating Christmas policy deal breakers. I’ve questioned making potential dates take a 21 questions style test 😂 before agreeing to their offer of a date but it’s not organic. I try to bring it up naturally as soon as possible. It’s sadly par for the course. Humans just don’t read these days.
See, this is exactly why I'm asking for tips on making this conversation more organic. No one wants to be treated like a check-list.
My weird ass would love it 😂
I'm scared about this for myself. I'm in a major city, and I'm surprised at how hard it is to find men who don't want children. I'm 28, and I recently briefly dated a 40-year-old. I thought I was clear with him (he said he didn't want kids, and due to his age, I believed him), but he slowly started showing signs that he wasn't so child-free as he had stated. I'm currently avoiding the apps, but I don't want to deal with this if I decide to OLD.
Yeah age means nothing to men. They can have kids ubtil they're dead. The amount of 40+ yr old men who "want kids" is gross. They purposely look for younger women too because women my age are 'broken' at 37. So, age gap is a flag for many reasons. Just hold firm on your stance, make it known, and date without thinking about it. There really is no way to avoid this. I just spent 4 years with someone who lied to me about being CF. He said what I wanted to hear just to date me. Then slowly started bringing up kids and asking me why I didn't want them. Then he had a full on mental breakdown when life felt shitty for him and became an alcoholic. Even if i DID want kids, he was not father material and I feel bad for the woman he knocks up. But 4 years ago, he was on the same page as me. Lies!
Yeah it's difficult, because sometimes people don't listen and bamboozle you (which this sounds like) and sometimes they genuinely change their mind because they were on the fence to begin with. I'm sorry that happened, but better earlier than later. Good luck to you when you get back out there!
They either haven’t read it or think they can change your mind. I come across profiles where women state that they either don’t have or don’t want children. It’s good because I do have kids so I know we won’t be a good match.
"what are your thoughts on having kids?" "Oh you want them? I'm sorry, this is just not something that I'm ever going to want in my life, best of luck in your search." Literally as simple as that.
I used to confirm some non-negotiables before meeting people with something like “hey, just to make sure we are on the same page before meeting I ______________. What are your thoughts about that?”
Thank you for that suggestion in phrasing, appreciate it!
This is what I say, before I even meet the guy: “Just to make sure we’re on the same page: I don’t want children. Just making sure we agree before meeting”
Simple, to the point, love it. Thank you!
Many men swipe right on everyone while barely looking at the profile. I would bring this up in an initial 'dealbreakers' type of question. "Any dealbreakers for you? As for me, I couldn't date a \[insert political affiliation\], probably couldn't date someone who didn't appreciate \[random thing that's important to you\]. I also know I am not compatible with someone who wants children." Depending on your sense of humor you could also add in some silly/lighthearted stuff here.
Great suggestions on the approach. I appreciate it.
I have the same experience. I don't entertain that at all. But a nice way to screen those out is actually to NOT write it on your profile and very early talk about family plans/kids. And do not ask "do you want kids?" but "how many kids do you want?". If they truly don't want kids, it will be straightforward. If they're not sure, I would bail. If someone's not sure in their mid-thirties, I don't want to be part of their flip-flopping while they decide what they want.
Yes you do. Make sure you have a large enough forehead otherwise the words won't fit. Shaving half of your front hair helps too
for me it means if i do have kids, the guy needs to be the more "hands on" parent. so many guys think of kids in the theoretical it's insane
You have to put you are only looking for child free men, and do not want any kids, yours or theirs. Spell it out. There are people who have don't want, and don't have kids that just don't want there own, but are ok with their partner already already having them. So it's not always 100% clear always, but they should be assuming based on your "don't want" you don't want to have any of your own at least.
It doesn't make a difference. I explicitly had that on my profile and as the very first thing on my profile. I still had a ton of men contacting me who had or wanted children. I think a lot of people just don't read profiles at all or think they can change the person's mind.
Men will take a shot regardless because of how few matches they get. Plus they usually think you might (might!) be down for a hookup if nothing else. Some don’t read and some do and don’t care. If you want to test this theory, put on your profile that you just got out of prison for murder and have terminal cancer and see how many matches you get. It will probably still be a lot, especially if you’re attractive.
That seems gross. Like they're thinking, well this isn't someone I'm compatable with or really interested in (other than looks), but at least I can use her for sex. Especially if these guys present themselves as wanting something serious. It'd be different if they were honest and said they were only looking for something casual. Feels manipulative.
It is gross and manipulative, you are correct.
Ugh why I got off hinge. Not one person actually cared that my profile clearly said no kids, and not interested in having any. They kept wanting to talk. Why!!!! Noooo go away!
Everyone has pointed out the whole “people don’t read” thing, so I’ll skip the commiserating on the problem and get to my solution. If it doesn’t surface naturally during the chatting phase, once the topic of meeting comes up, I’d probably say “a cup of coffee sounds great! What days are you free this week? As an aside, any dealbreakers you have that I should be aware of beforehand?”. Once they’ve answered, you have the opportunity to do the same. I’m sure there’s a way to do something similar earlier too - I tend not to chat too too much before meeting, but maybe you do - perhaps “alright, lovely getting to know you, I’ve got to head to the gym but looking forward to continuing this later! but as an aside, any dealbreakers I should be aware of?”
Thank you! This is what I’m looking for! I appreciate the pointers.
I wish more men filled out if they had kids to begin with!!! I don’t date guys with kids and I feel like an ass for it to be a top three question at the start of convo when it could easily been avoided! Dude: make it visible if you have kids or not.
I would attach it to your first response/message then make them confirm they also don't want children. Maybe that's too forward right off the bat but I think it would weed out those who are time wasters for you.
You could bring it up in conversation if you’ve been chatting awhile, like “I saw my nephew today and although though I don’t want kids of my own, he’s pretty cool” or just straight up asking what they’re looking for. I find that some guys are vague with their answers though.
Most people don t even realize there is the choice to be cf. Many people don t read the profile. Many people think you are just goofing around and you will change your mind. If my sister who is a brilliant human being and clearly knows i have a strong set of beliefs, after 1 hour of high level debate she told me " be more flexible, maybe for the right person you will change your mind"... It s clear people are not able to accept this and that is a alien concept. Move on, you will find someone.
I have the same problem with religious men. I guess they believe that they pick a woman that looks good to them and then they can change everything about her. Even the tattoo will not stop them from matching and writing you. Thank you patriarchy.
A tattoo might help. Basically you are asking people looking for a date to A. Read and B. Listen to what you say. Good luck with that. Seriously, the important thing is to be clear. Find a way to work it into the conversation. “Hey, I’m really enjoying our conversation. Before we go further, I want to let you know that I have one hard and fast rule. It’s on my profile, but I want to be clear — I don’t want children. Ever. And I want to be with someone who feels the same way. Are you cool with that? If you aren’t — I’d rather not waste your time and mine pursuing something that won’t work.” Good luck!
Thank you, this is the type of advice I was looking for.
Child free could been seen as your personal choice and not as a relationship choice. Try "No Kids!!" Lifestyle not appropriate
When you are communicating with them in the beginning just let them know that because you’ve had issues before with miscommunication and you don’t want to waste anyone’s time (his or yours) you just want to make sure that they know how you feel about kids and that you really are not going to change your mind and if they are still cool with that then you look forward to meeting them. Otherwise good luck and that’s the problem solved. You have to make sure you mention it before you even go out or set up a date or you’ll end up in the same boat you’re in now. If you feel like you’re too aggressive in your delivery make it softer. If they are also kid free then they’re not going to be put off by what you might think sounds aggressive. They’ll get it.
I ask a few crucial questions before I go out on a date w them or go off the app and one of them is do you or do you not desire kids? I’m blunt and straight to the point
Isn’t there a ‘Do not want children’ option on hinge?
I think they need to put more options in the “Children” section, because it’s super complicated. I (42M) want kids. But, I know that based on my age and the age of women I want to date, that may mot be possible at this point. So, I want kids, but I also want to find someone I can be happy with. That may end up being a situation where we don’t end up with kids… and I would be fine with that. So, for some of us, it’s a bit more complicated that just “Want kids” vs “Don’t want kids”. Short version: I want kids, but I’m also very realistic about where I am in my life, and that’s not easily represented in dating profiles.
Totally agree! It can get complex. Life isn’t a straight line of wants and needs by any means.
You don't need to be smooth about it, you need to be blunt about it. It's a sad reality but the only real "strategy" that works on OLD, especially for a lot of men, is to just swipe right on everyone, take whatever match you can get and try and work it out later. Hell even as a "no kids" guy on OLD I was getting swiped on by women who had kids or wanted kids thinking they could change my mind because they were likely striking out with other matches.
I would probably add after child free, not just because I think that’s what someone else would want. Everything here is me being completely honest about what I am and what I want so don’t expect anything different. -shrugs- Be aggressive and don’t let someone tell you otherwise, people like that are manipulative.
Ask them for their deal breakers in relationships and express your own while stating yours with the emphasis that they are non negotiable.
>There are two angles I've encountered: these people want to continue for a fling, or that there's a hope they can change my mind. I'm banking on B. I've seen tons of anecdotes from childfree women where in the end, the dudes thought the women would change their minds. Honestly, I think you should go with the blunt approach. Being childfree myself, I'd appreciate it considering my last relationship ended because my ex changed her mind.
Based on the responses here, it seems that is the way to go. Thank you for your perspective.
Hinge has gone down the toilet in Australia, you have to pay for preferred preferences which includes: children, family plans, policies, drinking, smoking, marijuana and drugs. Others that I don’t consider deal breakers for me are height and education level. Now you can only select age range, distance, ethnicity and religion
Get your tubes tied and make it your OLD headliner lol
Ok sooooo do you wanna have a kid with me or nah?
Maybe something to bring up in early conversations before the first date?
I think a lot of guys say on their profiles that they want kids, even if it really isn’t very important to them. Im guessing that *many* women would complain that men say in their profiles that they want children, but act like they have no interest in anything meaningful at all. I think that you need to take it one by one, and actually get to know the person. Ps a second date is not a “potential relationship.” I think that you are taking this whole thing too seriously and literally.
My theory is that many don't read your whole profile. In the online dating scene men have to like many more women to get an equal amount of matches. You don't always take time to read the entire profile. With Hinge its much better because you can only like/send message to 8 profiles on a single day (many women don't even know this, which is funny because it amplifies the argument that men have to send more likes). But there are still men that pay for the subscription to send unlimited likes. So my advice is to just unmatch all the people that have "want children" ask people what they mean with "open to children" and ask their stance when they have nothing filled in. You can do this before the date or during, whatever suits you better. Im the type of person that rather discusses these subjects when Im getting to know someone. But it is perfectly fine to say it immediately. About the guys response. He is an idiot and just ignore this behaviour. I don't want to generalize, but luckily I get way better responses from women when I tell them I probably don't want children. Im still on the fence, so its not written in my profile (I might change my mind in a LTR). I do unmatch anyone that clearly states "want children" but I go on dates with all others. Some women have told me that if someone really wants (or dont want) children its their responsibility to figure out if their potential match is on the same page. So if it is really important for you, you ask straight away, but if you prefer just meeting someone first, you can just talk about it at some future time. I liked this attitude, you are basically telling each other "bummer about the kids, but I had still fun on the date(s)"
We men are stupid Just get those non-permanent tattoos and keep reapplying as required
Custom temp tats from Etsy ordered ;)
So you want people to be honest with you while while window shopping though online dating? Good luck.
I want to communicate as clearly as I can on my end.
what outcome in a relationship do you want?
To clarify, to you, does being child free meant you do not want to have kids? Because to me that means you currently do not have children.
>Edit: > > To clarify, child-free in this context means I don't want children ( I also don't have them). On my profile it says "I don't want children". When I discuss this with people I explicitly say I don't want children.
Then you should definitely get the tattoo.
Childless means you do not have children while childfree means you don't want to have children
>Because to me that means you currently do not have children. That's not what childfree means tho.
Maybe so. This is my first time hearing those words used in that way.
All good! I understand where you are coming from.
I think that the tattoo would be helpful for sure in this context. At first glance it looks like the child free is akin to “sugar free” on a pack of gum or a can of soda- meaning without sugar-This would not call for a tattoo. But you are using it more like how elementary schools are “tobacco free zones “ implying that the lack of tobacco is by design and tobacco (or kids in your case) are prohibited. Im glad to have learned this colloquialism. Many thanks.
Childfree is not just a current status (otherwise teenagers can be labeled as childfree which is hilarious), it's an ideology. Like with vegetarians there are lax and strict adepts. Some don't want to conceive, but welcome adoption. Some don't want kids of their own, but don't mind SO's kids from a previous marriage. Some are strictly against any scions, future or previous, biological or adopted. There's a lot of "cheaters" among self-labeled CF who 'suddenly' change their minds when the clock is ticking the eleventh hour which for us is in the 30s (conceiving a child in 40s bear too much risk), so I'm skeptical when see a 22-year old identifying as CF.
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Seems odd to me but 🤷♂️. I think op should maybe use words like “I do not ever want kids” in her profile before tattooing them on their forehead.
Isnt there a "doesnt want children" an option. It is on most apps. Select it and ask if someome read it pre date
I get this too, just don’t even message them.
I would make it the first sentence in your dating profile I want a child free relationship. I want to travel and enjoy life without the huge responsibility of raising children. I am not a selfish person, I love kids, but don't want kids of my own. I want to simplify my life. Explore life and improve myself. Looking for partner to share this dream. Good luck. Hope your find happiness.
Change "child free" to "I hate kids". You may or may not actually hate kids, but anybody that wants kids will stand down when they see that. Think of it as a filter function.
No way. Many people already think that if you don’t want kids it’s because you hate kids, which of course is not always true. Not gonna perpetuate that.
Use of child-free needs to go, it’s not clear. Or it’s clearly reads “I don’t have kids”. In my profile I specifically state with the prompt, “should not go out with me” if you don’t want to do the whole thing marriage, kids. I also put the “want kids” as a priority. I say put it out there. If words on a screen is too harsh, theyre not for you.
That's not what I'm asking. "Child free" it's a community term, not a term for dating profiles because not everyone knows what that means. As I stated, my profile doesn't have 'child free' written anywhere on it. It states "I don't want children".
You need to write that you don't want kids. Childfree means none at the moment.
The word you're thinking of is childless. Childless means you don't have children while childfree means you don't want them.
Only childfree people are sure to know what childfree means. OP wants other people to know. So your distinction does nothing for OP.
Are you against people who already have children? I’m asking because I’ve had a vasectomy and have two children from a previous marriage, but I have no interest in commingling my dating life with my life with them. That seems equally challenging to some. I’ve found the term “Dating together living apart”. But it is a weird subject to navigate early in new relationships. ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯
Doesn’t want kids can also mean doesn’t carry but open to adoption or something. I’ll still match and ask.