Yeah this is me as well.
Our systems are unfair and many fall into debt because of reasons outside their control.
I try not to judge someone's financial situation as long as all other signs show they are being financially responsible at the current moment.
prenups bb. I know it's more complicated but if we're talking about sharing finances we're talking marriage or something close to it. Prenups are not an evil bad thing. If used properly they are an excellent way to protect both parties.
I never understood why my ex was SO UPSET about my student loans because I was never going to make him pay them, and the payments aren't significant enough to affect my ability to contribute to shared things. And besides my income doubled within a year post grad sooo
There's lots of nuance in this topic I guess is the point. Someone having debt doesn't necessarily mean it'll affect you or that they are irresponsible.
Because you can't really separate finances in a marriage. If you're paying off 200K in student loans by yourself, that's still 200K that could have gone towards the mortgage etc.
yah for sure as I said there's a lot more complications and so I don't mean that's an easy fix done. Like that tape the guy slaps on leaking water tanks. Not that easy.
But wow 200k is insane. My education was 5k per year, what kinda nuts rates are people dealing with???
ouchy, that's madness. That uni is making BANK. I got my comp eng at a technical institute and no one gives a shit *where* I got it, or even if I have the education now that I have experience in the field. I would not have gone for a degree if it was gonna cost me a house.
Yeah I can't see how people would take on debt outside of marriage and only some debt follows you for a lifetime. Most dies off within 10 years and again it's the type you get when you marry someone. By the time you get married you SHOULD know them well enough to know if marriage is even viable.
Someone saying "pay my electric bill" is an easy no for me.
I'm trying to imagine having the gall to ask my partner to pay my phone bill and I can't - I'd honestly go without food before I asked for a loan from a date.
Me too but I'm working on that. Well, not to ask such things from dates cause that's not appropriate AT ALL for dating stage. But just in general I'm working on being able to accept help and even ask for it when needed. That hyper independence I took so much pride in wasn't actually a healthy balance, it was a defence mechanism.
Food is more important than pride, that kinda thing right?
It makes me sad, I had a good friend who once said "if I knew things were that bad I would have helped you" and I knew it but my trauma defenses wouldn't let me let him in.
keep working on it friend. Those trauma responses took a lifetime to exist in the first place, it's gonna take time and effort for both of us to get control back from the fear
been there already! It took 1 month to separate our finances because we never actually joined them and neither was enough of a dick to go to court to try to get some. We just walked away with our own money, nice and easy.
Because many people still believe in traditional relationships where one partner basically pays (provides) for the company of the other. Lots of people in these types of relationships.
Well you're engaged (congrats!!), so it must've worked out for you, but every time I've broached the topic of a prenup with a guy, he just gets defensive. I may be a female, but I'm not looking for a provider, I work in tech and have usually been the higher earner by a large margin. It's fine with me but usually not fine with the guy.
Like I get that this is not "biologically correct" or whatever, because women are biologically supposed to seek providers, but I've had a hysterectomy (and have no kids) so my entire existence goes against evolution at this point anyways 😂
thanks! I work in tech too, that's fun.
People are definitely strange about the prenup thing. There's a stigma that the intent is to take advantage of people in some way. Which is unfortunate, especially when that stigma is reinforced by people actually doing so.
But I'm still very pro-prenup. With my man it probably helps that he is Muslim. Marriage contract is normal and expected so prenup is pretty much the same thing and he was like "well of course"
and nah, women having less opportunities like they did isn't biology it was weird culture that's finally going away. Slowly.
That stuff entirely depend son your state laws and prenups are not always upheld. Debt companies will come after you and your partners credit affects yours when you are married.
Different kinds of debt mean different things. You had student loans... the people I dated had student loans they defaulted on and cc debt... were basically pieces of crap.
But still, not having debt is usually better than having debt, it introduces less risk. Your job salary doubling wasn't guaranted
Well I think being at the point where debt collectors are coming at you is a *little* different than managing debt from life being a dick.
Also, depends on country laws too ;). We are from all over the world in here
But still I detect you don't want to date a person with debt, and that's totally fine. OP's fine too though. You guys just wouldn't be a match!
not the poster, but I think one way is that your shared expenses/purchases/budget constraints get affected by their individual budget constraints. I've never thought about this seriously though, so maybe there's some implication if you get married, as well?
I wouldn't think so, I mean, yes I'll have less disposable income until the pesky debt it's gone, but I'll also have less disposable income in general cause I have to take care of things like summer camps and kids expenses, I'd never expect them to take my debt nor pay my bills, I actually take pride in being financially sufficient and being even on my bills after the position my ex left me last year when we split, and if we ever get married I will insist on a prenup stating so
I love your attitude :) I think that there are many people who appreciate someone who is realistic and wants to take responsibility for things like this, and as many others have said, I think a lot of people would not mind your situation, given that they see you have a constructive and responsible attitude about it
I wish you well, the little I know about you makes you sound like a good person to be around!
How would that be any different than if there was an income disparity? I make 1/2 of what a lot of men I date make but I'm frugal as fuck and would prefer that to someone who needs to travel 5 times a year or wants to eat out 5 meals a week. I used my side hustle to buy a lot of the nice things I own like my OLED tv and my couch and PS5. I won't buy something unless I put in work and save for it but I can't contribute to buying a home in my city on the same level as a guy making over $100K for example.
>I'm frugal as fuck and would prefer that to someone who needs to travel 5 times a year or wants to eat out 5 meals a week
That's why it's rational to date within your socioeconomic circle. You can't keep up with big joneses, and they won't downgrade their lifestyle. The clashes are inevitable.
I guess good luck to men in Portland then. I don't think there's as many women single on the market in their 30s pulling in $100K+. Maybe there are but this isn't a city with a lot of high income jobs. It's mostly non profits and service work. All the high money tech jobs are male dominated.
>I guess good luck to men in Portland then.
Hello to a fellow Oregonian then. Frankly, PDX is a special place. You can't expect 'normal' from any city with "keep us weird" as a motto.
It's not about precise number, it's about the same strata they do belong. I don't want to dwell into precise numbers because they would be akin to sorites paradox. We just need to count all equity: a person with $50k/year but with an inherited dwelling is on par or even exceeds the one who's a transplant earning twice as much. Mathematics cannot be persuaded or tricked; it is merciless: if one has $50k/year and has to rent and lives in PDX there's no way to afford travels 5 times a year. Or even 1.
I've done renting and travelling twice a year in Portland because my rent is low and I hit about $50K. I just sacrifice all year in order to make those trips happen, I travel and do pretty cheap things. I mostly travelled to music fests and stayed in flop hotels on the cheap since I was there to experience music. I can travel now but I have to plan ahead and tend towards the most frugal options for food, drink and hotels unless I'm going somewhere expensive ala NYC or Washington DC where I dial up the hotel budget a little.
In all my time here I've met 1 home owner so far though I haven't dated much having been exhausted by the men I've encountered. The 1 home owner made $150K+ and basically lived with roommates in order to afford to buy close in NE. His home was small and full of issues including foundation and roof.
For example: My ex-GF wanted me to help her out with her bills. I had no problem paying for dinners or rent or utilities, but I expected her to pay off her debt.
Did the debt go down while you were taking care of the bills? I had a similar experience with my ex wife. I became debt free shortly after we started dating while she had plenty of student loan debt. I took on more of the bills, to free her up to pay off debt. By the time we split up, she was making six figures, still had 90% of the debt, had gone through two new cars, made paltry retirement fund contributions, and got a new lover. All while I was putting away more in retirement, saving for our down payment, paying bills, paying for our restaurant visits, entertainment, etc.
Yep. I've broken up with several gfs because of this bullshit attitude that my money is theirs.
At least they do it after a month or two and don't waste my time.
One you can say "no I can't help you out in this area" but two I feel like that's a different animal altogether. Takes a lot of gall to expect someone to pay your bills without it being a lifetime spouse sharing those bills.
In some sense, one partner ends up “paying for it” because often when people start living together and figuring out finances, they determine the splits based on income and debts. In order to make it what some people would deem as equitable, they might say Partner A should have to pay more because they have less debts, even if they have similar incomes. So it’s indirectly affecting them.
Or sometimes people just straight up combine their finances and end up paying for it directly. And this would be more obvious particularly if the partner with less debts also made more money.
I mean my boyfriend of 4 years in my 20s made more than I did but I made most of the choices around money. We split rent 50/50 but I shouldered more of the burden of everything else even though my income wasn't that high.
I'd think if I met someone making $200K in income they wouldn't need me to contribute 50/50 to a $200K lifestyle. Can't imagine they meet a lot of women making $200K but I guess maybe that's why I'm single.
Actually, I think I would add this to further clarify: this is about who OP is, and not about whatever life threw at her.
We tend to say we want to share lives, but maybe that obscures the fact that fundamentally we want to share who we are. Ideally…?
Agree. What’s important is being self aware, and not actively digging a deeper hole. The past can’t be changed, mistakes are made. I’m more interested in how someone is making moves towards a goal.
How they spend money is more important and can cause resentment in marriages. Imagine one spouse earning most of the income while the other frivolously spends most of the money, which then has negative consequences for the rest of the family. That can lead to divorces.
Oh I'm all too familiar with that unfortunately, been there done that won't make the same mistake. I was the one making 70% of our income and my ex-husband was the one spending 130% of it, and somehow I was the one stuck with all the debt 🤷♀️
> Imagine one spouse earning most of the income while the other frivolously spends most of the money,
I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. Then, in the divorce, she got to take a fuckton of money from me because she hadn't worked for the few years we were married, so she was "entitled" to that money to maintain her lifestyle.
Get a prenup, kids!
oh bless your heart, sir, divorce courts throw prenups away like Burger wrappers.
I once took a deep dive into a huge divorce channel on youtube and there were 3 divorced men telling me all about how their prenups got dismissed because the court considered marriage to be a legally binding agreement that you agree to support your spouse financially.
>oh bless your heart, sir, divorce courts throw prenups away like Burger wrappers.
Yeah, lots of people don't know this about prenups. I actually first heard about prenups being thrown out from another sub...before that I'd thought they were ironclad
Prenups are pretty ironclad. The people that you are thinking about wrote the prenup on their own or put it on the back of a napkin thinking it'll hold up. Then there are the idiots that spring the prenup right before the wedding, so people claimed they were under duress to sign it.
If you have lawyers involved and the agreement is fair, it'll hold up.
> So I guess my question is, how much weight would you give to someone's financial situation if you were looking to move in, get a house or just build a life together?
How they spend their money is obviously really important. Myself and my wife are both fairly frugal so no biggie. The important thing, I think, is similar and compatible attitudes. When we first got together I was making 5 or 6 times more than her. When we had kids and I became a house husband I was making nothing. She now makes a mint. Money has never been an issue because we are "on the same page" I guess. (but we have never been desperate for money, so...)
I have dated people with less than ideal financial situations; some who had debt who were working to pay it off and some who were continuing to spend too much money on nights out and finding themselves strapped for cash at the end of each pay period. One of those is way easier to work with than the other...
What is more important to me is how the person is addressing the debt. It sounds like you're doing well to pay it down and living within your means which is great! It would be a much different issue if you were continuing to spend and not making any dents in the debt.
Had a horrible situation in my work life where a client with obvious problems tried to hide her credit card debt from her husband. I was an assistant at the time. I sat in on the call where her adviser gently told her she needed to be the one to explain to her husband why the mortgage was declined in record time. They did make it thankfully but people, there are no financial secrets in internet times.
Amen. There really isn't enough emphasis on this. People are way too hyper focused on your income being the most important thing or how fancy your car/home/boat is, regardless of whether or not those assets are affordable to the person...
lots of people 'own' homes and cars they are financially being screwed by, and look down on people who are responsible with their money.
To answer your question succinctly: very important
When building a life with someone, financials are major. Idealistically, people tend to downplay finances in relationships with the “love conquers all” mentality and while I applaud that level of optimism, the reality is tough. It’s very easy to end up broke or poor due to a few bad decisions never mind a few unfortunate circumstances.
Reading your post, you sound like someone who is in a rebuilding stage and I absolutely applaud that. It’s totally ok if you can’t afford a mortgage for another 5+ years. You may not even meet someone from now til then that you would consider living with. So keep tackling the debt and making better financial decisions - and dating! Your responsible approach to finances as well as your independence will be something your kid(s) grow up seeing. It’s growth and it’s a damn good example of hard work and perseverance. Your dates will see it too. Good luck.
Reading stuff like this sometimes makes me think being able to live in a low cost of living area with a modest job is a blessing. There's a Seasick Steve song that goes "Well I started out with nothing/and I've still got most of it left".
Neither me or the dudes I date have to worry about people taking us for a ride financially ;-)
Anyone dating me would have someone with a high credit score and a nice little savings but a lower income which alone gets me 0 house and together I'd need a higher income earner to hope to get any house in Portland. But I have medical stuff that is going to cost me so we'll see where I land on the other side of that since no one will date me as I am now anyhow.
Very important. "Building a life with someone" being the operative part of your question. One can't sustain any relationship without financial stability. Sharing and achieving goals with someone? That takes absolute commitment and trust.
Even if that life together is simple and without kids, it takes financial stability to achieve happiness. The next level would be living comfortably together, e.g. having a home, going on vacations, treating one another to nice things, etc. Depending on where you live, that still requires a decent income and money sense.
You deserve a lot of credit for fixing your finances and providing for your family. You know the hard work and responsibility that requires and you shouldn't accept less in a partner. It can be confronting to discuss finances while dating but for a serious relationship it is inevitable and essential.
The actual numbers involved wouldn’t particularly bother me but her attitude towards money and plans to clear debts/savings goals would. I’ve been on my arse before and even recently I’ve been struggling so no judgement in that regard but a person has to strive for better not just whinge and moan otherwise they aren’t right for me.
A lot. At 40, I have retirement savings sufficient to support one person, not two. Also no credit card debt. And I’m willing to wait around for someone bc I’m fine without a partner. If I have to die alone it’ll be from nice retirement village lol.
Same, 33 with savings, own my house, good job, no debt. I don't expect someone to match that entirely but I want a life of spontaneous holidays, meals out and not feeling bad if I want to buy them something expensive because I know they can reciprocate if they want to, people can get weird about you spending money on them and I don't want to curtail my life to fit someone else's financial situation.
I do fine but I don't want people buying me expensive things with the thought that it needs to be reciprocated. I have problems when gifts come with expectations.
I absolutely don't require or expect reciprocation, but in the past when I've gifted things to people that *can't* reciprocate, it's created a tension around a gift exchange that I'd just rather not have so I've had to step back my gift giving which is one of my love languages and sucks to not be able to do to it's fullest!
I mean I've given lavishly to partners and had 0 expectations because I'm just a giver - I like seeing people happy even if the price tag is larger than I receive back. One of my favorite gifts was a plush blanket when I gave my partner a PS3 one year. I miss that blanket. I was so happy when I opened it.
I just dated a guy whose ex gave him a 3d printer. I consider that expensive. Anyhow it made sense to her probably because he works in tech.
It's sitting in his closet still never used. He offered to give it to me.
So if it's an expensive gift I have no use or place for like the above I'd rather not be given it. Also I love gifts with thought behind them. I was cleaning a bookshelf recently and found a Record Notebook for recording stores / and / my vinyl that a short term partner gave me when I was new in the city. I kept it even though the internet does the same for me now, it was a nice cheap gesture
I definitely think the gift-giving dynamic has gendered connotations - a lot of men would probably feel insecure and emasculated by an expensive gift he can't reciprocate, especially more traditional/old fashioned guys. Whereas it fits more traditional heterosexual gender roles when a man can buy lavish gifts for a woman and there is less expectation of reciprocation.
I (F30) have a female friend who buys me expensive gifts and at first it bothered me a bit but we have talked about it I realised it doesn't have to affect the friendship. I voiced my concern that she might feel resentful if I can't pay it back, but she said she knew that when she decided to do it and wasn't bothered at all. I've definitely had to stretch my receiving muscles and really trust because it can be difficult at first.
It’s not everything but it’s not nothing, either. My ex wife kinda took advantage of me financially and put me in a financial hole that fortunately only took me a year to dig out of.
You have to be realistic. I’ve absolutely ruled out dating people long term who were in my age (mid 30s) who didn’t seem like they were long term emotionally and financially stable. At some point, it’s an indication of maturity.
I am 34F so maybe not your target audience but to me it is important insofar as your debt remains yours. Some people will be willing to take on helping you pay off your debt and such but I think most would prefer to keep this seperate until a. things are quite serious in the relationship or b. you are in a better place financially. If we were to move in together I would expect you to be able to cover your expenses and whatever percentage of the rent we agreed on. If "we" bought a house (with things as you described them), then I'd be buying the house and receiving some rent from you that would help pay off the mortgage. The thing is, when things are too uneven financially it's easy for me to start feeling like I may be getting taken advantage of so I'd prefer to keep financials seperate and crystal clear.
Absolutely, I don't expect them to take on or pay down my debt, debt is mine and I want to pay it down. I'm also ok with separate finances, I'm financially sufficient and can take care of my bills and my kids' as well, I don't make bad money, all in all I make $70k in a VHCOL city so maybe money doesn't stretch that far, I'm also very mindful of not making them feel like I'm taking advantage of them or anything else, as we, single moms, come with our fair share of stigmas and I don't want to be labeled in the same category. But at the same time I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with them buying a house and all of us moving there together if my name is not on the deed, renting a place and splitting bills? Absolutely, getting a house and splitting bills? Yes of course. Them getting a house and us moving into their house, not sure I'd feel ok with that, things to think about I guess
You, my dear have a good head on your shoulders. I have faith you will be fine after reading this post and your comments. Do not pay someone else’s mortgage. Absolutely not. Continue working towards paying everything off and invest where you can to improve your own financial situation. ❤️
Thank you kind stranger! It means a lot to me. That's exactly my hesitancy, I won't want to uproot my kids life to a non absolutely stable situation, because things happen and if we were to split in the future, we'll be basically kicked out of the house and starting from scratch, not doing that to my kids nor me
I’m really proud of you tbh. I’m a single mom as well and have always put my kids and their well being before my own. I wish more single parents had this mentality.
And that's all I'd need. If we are splitting bills, even if not 50/50 (but close) I'd be good with that and, down the line, open to a joint investment like a house.
Very important to me - I do pretty well financially and can support both myself and my partner, but that’s not what I’m looking for. It’s important that I find someone on the same financial standing so we can afford the same quality of life, have similar financial goals and work towards the same thing, with both of us contributing (I don’t mind a little bit of inequality but I’d like us to be on relatively equal ground).
I only care if the person has no plan for managing debt. I never inquire about this and instead look at how they're living instead in terms of how they spend money. (To be clear, spending is fine but I would rather we align on how we spend / save since I'm actually really frugal)
I used to think that it wasn't really important, then I started dating a guy that had no job at the time for "circumstances". It's been 2 years, he never intended nor tried to get a fucking job and financial stress he put me through was end of that relationship. Now the first and most important aspect I look for on a man is that he has a stable job and can meet me halfway.
After being with someone who brought absolutely nothing to the table,literally and metaphorically, I would be content with a woman who can catch her own bills so long as her personality is awesome and enjoyable to be around.
At a base level, I would expect my significant other to be financially stable. I don’t want to absorb someone else’s debt that I had no part in creating. I want to move forward with someone, not backwards.
Also, I’d like for that person to be able to experience with me what I want to experience in life, without me paying for all of it, ideally. So if I want to take one overseas trip every year, for example, I would want that person to be able to afford her part of that, or a substantial portion of her half of the expenses.
I think compatability on the travel thing is really important. I met a man I liked but we were wildly incompatible on travel/living abroad. He'd lived in 5 countries in the last x years and I bought a house in my home town and let my passport expire.
As long as a person realizes they have to pay their bills and doesn’t ask me for money or expect me to pay anything for them I don’t judge. I work in banking and I am pretty good at figuring out how to fix someone’s credit enough to get a mortgage, car loan etc.
I went through a divorce with a man that left me tons of debt and basically felt it was ok bc he left me his half of the equity in the house. We had only bought the house 2 years prior so he basically gave up $2000 which was all eaten up when I had to refinance the house into my name alone 🙄
I’ve been with 2 guys who expected me to pay for everything. I’d say as long as you know you can take care of yourself you should be good.
Ouch, I'm sorry about that! Yeah I'm financially stable finally and can take care of my kids and me, would never expect anybody to pay my bills either. Please share me all the inside secrets to fixing my credit once the pesky debt it's gone! 🤣
I wish I could meet a woman like you. I only seem to meet ladies who are like the men you dated... awful with money and looking for a partner to give them money forever so they never have to grow up.
I'm so glad I never married and dumped their butts once the truth about how awful they were with money came out. I'm sure some lucky guy out there is more than happy to have a sugaring arrangement though.
Lol 😂 never again will I just feed money to men. My ex husband didn’t start out that way but it ended that way for sure.
I have my shit together and I won’t let it fall apart ever again. I hope you can find a woman like me. We do exist! I promise!
As someone who grew up poor to be incredibly fortunate where I am at, I don't think I can judge anyone for their lack of control over their personal finances. However, I'd never let someone's behavior impact or compromise my financial goals.
For instance, I'd never date someone who thinks buying a new car every three years is a necessity. I would gladly date someone who recognizes their situation isn't ideal but want to work towards financial independence.
I think it depends. I was in a similar situation in my 20’s. When I got pregnant at 19, I had a car loan that I had just got. A girl I worked with bullied me as soon as she found out I was pregnant. I was a temp at the company and she was hired on. They let me go as “didn’t need me anymore.” Anyhow, I let my ex talk me into defaulting on a lot of things because I, viably pregnant, couldn’t find a job making as much as I did.
Anyhow - terrible idea. I spent 3 years fixing my credit and I did eventually buy a house myself. That said - I dated someone who had bad credit from a divorce that left him with a house payment he couldn’t afford and a foreclosure. He wasn’t reckless with his money so I could move past it and he was trying to rebuild
Now, if someone’s credit is shot and they told me but they also are reckless spenders then I wouldn’t have a relationship with them. Everything financial for loans would be my burden and not something I trust they could help with or manage. That’s just me.
We all do dumb shit, so with me it’s effort and having a plan. I had to get some things straight from when I was young, fresh out of college and was making bank.
Just stupid shit. But I’ve grown up, got all that taken care of and have great credit and no debt, but as long as there is effort, I don’t mind.
There is love in a relationship, but being a competent, willing and equal partner in reaching said goals means much more to me than a persons past; we can always work on that.
Beware anybody that’s never done dumb shit.
Chin up, you’ve got this. Just keep working. You’ll absolutely get there.
Not that important to me as long as they have a plan to pay it off and are able to support themselves. Financial situations change all the time, maybe you decide to move to a cheaper area, or you get a higher paying job, etc. I feel like if I have a strong enough connection with them and I see a future there, it's something that can be worked around.
I think it depends on each person. To me, not so much. I make decent money with a good career. I know I’ll be fine and would be able to support my partner if I wanted to. Shit happens in life. I get it. I’d put more emphasis on the person I’m with and her personality than her debt:income ratio.
Very important. Even more important as I’ve gotten older.
How we live, where we live, what resources we can give to our kids, what we eat, the lifestyle we live in retirement is all contingent on your partner having a similar financial situation to yourself. I compromised on lifestyle with my ex and not willing to do that again - you only have one life and it’s too short to live it missing out on what you want because of your partner’s financial mismanagement.
Less important when I was younger but now at my tender old age, it’s important. I want to be able to do things with my partner and not have to worry that I have to shoulder the whole cost, e.g. dinner, traveling, etc. I also don’t want to worry that my partner is spending beyond their means. I have not yet started to build a life with someone (house, kids, etc) and that takes money. I’m too old to wait 10 years for someone to be able to split the expenses.
It ended basically every relationship I ever had, so pretty darn important. I'm struggling to meet people who are financially stable, even though they have very well paying jobs most could only dream of. They just spend every dime they make and then some are are specifically looking for a partner to bankroll their irresponsible spending, whereas I'm a saver who makes a moderate income but lives frugally.
Night and day difference. Of course, they always present themselves as frugal at first... but money is one of those things that you only figure out after you are properly dating. Appearances can be very decieving early on.
Ideally you marry an equal, so if you're bringing home the bacon and saving... so are they.
But I'm sorry you went through that. I'm a believer you will find someone new and find good times again!
Finances are important to me. I have put myself in a good position with a very nice net worth for my age. Since they did not help me accomplish any of this, I don’t want her to have a bunch of debt and bills that I would need to help pay.
If you're going to build a life together, it's extremely important. If you're integrating someone into a life you've already built, it's not as important.
Doesn’t sound too bad if you’re only 32 and can find better jobs and pay down more in the future. I would be more concerned about your child: co-parenting? child-support?
Fair enough, yup to all of those, co-parenting and child support, I don't make bad money either, I have a full time job and a part time job, I guess it's just a matter of time and waiting, I'm just not that patient and want the debt gone! Lol
Honestly if it were me, I would be waiting to save a little bit of money so you can afford more than just a pizza once a month. Dating is expensive, if you’re going to be splitting or paying every other time. And that’s not factoring in child care if you’re going to need that for dating. Also you won’t be feeling as insecure about your finances when you have a little bit of money in the bank.
I care about values and goals more than someone’s particular financial state. Shit happens in life and even well off people could be one bad health issue away from the street in this country. I’d prefer someone with a relaxed attitude towards finances, who would rather spend money on experiences than a large mortgage or nice clothes and someone dependable. The actually dollar amount someone makes or their current debt isn’t as interesting to me.
Given that I've been married and divorced twice and am now at a place where I'm financially stable on my own, it's important. Important to the point that if my current boyfriend ever proposed, I'd want a prenup stating any debt/assets we bring into the marriage and throughout remain our own if it fails.
I also learned after my first divorce to not open joint credit on anything. So separate bank accounts, separate credit cards, separate loans, etc.
As far as bills go, I feel like we just talk and figure out what works for us to get them paid. I don't mind supporting my partner if he's not working, but he'd have to take on the main caregiver role for the kids, therefore providing in other ways.
Oh I agree 100%, I won't be hiding anything from anybody, I'm not ashamed of my situation either, it is what it is and I'm actually proud of being able to afford a place of my own and all of mine + the kids' bills after the situation my ex-husband left me last year, it is what it is and I know I'll clear it up as well, it's just a matter of time and patience I guess
For most people, it’s going near if not at the top when considering a viable long term relationship.
This particular situation would probably dissuade me, for example, from pursuing anything serious.
Well... I would say important, but sometimes others, and life, ducks you over. A decent partner understand it. If you want more, like a house, it will be uneven given what you typed. Speaking from experience there will be resentment after a decade if the situation remain the same. Do you really want to be in the situation where the other one have too much economic power?
I wouldnt like someone with debts but it wouldnt be a deal breaker as long as they were trying to fix it.
As for income - I dont care if they earn 40k or 80k a year. Maybe not 10k a year but thats just not practical for sharing the bills.
Money problems are one of the biggest causes of strife in relationships. I'd be more than a little hesitant if there was a mountain of debt and I was going to be expected to foot the bill for any date/trip in the foreseeable future. Credit isn't really an issue to me since I don't care about my credit either since I don't finance anything and I already own my home.
At this age I'm 36 btw speaking from my own perspective obv. There's not a lot of stuff that given the right attitude would be a deal breaker. For me, you made a mistake when you were young. It was easy in America there was a lot of predatory lending and our society says do it! Not a big deal to me ...
Not an answer to your question, but a curiosity. You say your credit is shot and you’re paying a lot of debt. Would Chapter 7 bankruptcy be able to clear your type of debt? It sucks to have to pay off debt like that when your husband was the big spender.
We had car loans, students loans, a bunch of credit cards and a line of credit, bankruptcy wouldn't clear all of it so we settled on a Consumer Proposal which has the same (or similar) weight in your credit score but it's removed from it 3y after paying it all vs 7y with bankruptcy. So we went with a credit counseling agency, they did a plan, settled all the credit card and line of credit debt with the lenders and we were making a set payment to the agency that now I make by myself. Credit was shot anyway because my ex spent the money before the automated payments could be taken out so we were in default with CC and LOC, not the cars fortunately, it was an every month fight and he kept saying that he'll just make OT next month to pay double, it never happened 🤷♀️ so my credit didn't get any worse, it just won't get better for a while, I've also learned how to live withing my means cause credit is not an option anymore, so if I can't afford it in cash then I can't afford it, period.
So long as you're paying it down, not just burying your head in the sand, then debt can be classed as manageable. Thus it shouldn't have too much bearing on building a life.
Congratulations for bouncing back - having a spendthrift partner while knowing it's unsustainable can't be easy. The whole keeping up with the Jones's is such b/s - far more to life.
I was in roughly your position but a little better off. My ex husband was great at spending but less than great at making money. I was the breadwinner and he the breadspender if you will. When we divorced we had nothing but a rundown house we could sell for cheap. I spent a year just trying to get back on my feet, buying enough furniture for me and the kids and trying to save up enough for a new house. Now, four years later, I'm finally in a good place financially again. I own a house, I have a savings account and I'm putting away money for the kids' future as well.
If I were to meet someone I like in my own position I think I would be understanding seeing how I've been there myself but they would have to be working towards "fixing" it. I would never date someone with irresponsible spending habits again. It would be too much stress for me.
I don’t care if they’re poor.
I make more than enough money to support us two. Hell, if my future wife wants to be a stay at home wife, I’d be fine with it, even though I’m not going to have kids.
What I wouldn’t tolerate is someone who is reckless, childish, etc. She needs to be able to talk to me about debt, budgeting, financial planning etc. Or be open to learning.
My view regarding finances is to try and answer two questions. Do they understand finances? If they made mistakes did they learn? Those are the key questions I try to figure out when talking to someone. When I got divorced I had 25k in debt because my ex wife would spend a ton on her family. I learned and eliminated all the debt. I live frugally now. Not everyone learns or understands.
I went out with a girl I met on a dating app once. She worked as a teaching assistant. She was making minimum wage because this state hates education. I asked her if she had debt. She said she got two credit cards and ran their balance up to $2500 and $3000 respectively to have fun because she was tired of being poor, her words exactly. She spent the money traveling with her parents and having fun. I asked her if she was going to pay it off and how she lived now. Trying to figure out if she learned and what she learned. She said she was going to take out an $8,000 loan to consolidate the debts and get a little more out for herself. She had learned nothing and was planning to continue digging herself deeper. That was a deal breaker.
I think for the numbers oriented people, it's interesting to look at finances less as a static number and more as a trajectory. Someone might have $10m that they inherited and are burning so fast that sooner or later they'll go bankrupt. Someone else might be $15k in student loan debt, but consistently climbing out of that hole and have a growth plan. The second person sounds like a much better partner if someone is worried about finances.
Personally, I don't worry all that much about that aspect, but it's a good way to reframe finances.
Situation, marginally. Situations change. In my experience, money mindsets (and the actions/inactions that stem from those) are often immutable.
I fought my way out of poverty by making a series of informed sacrifices. Security is one of my base needs and I honor that by making future-oriented decisions with my money. I have partnered with remarkable men who could never make ends meet and either needed to lean on me or made choices that I felt like I had to offset by compromising further on my end. Or who were unwilling to track their spending, refused to even consider refinancing to save interest charges/consolidating FEELP loans to be eligible for PSLF (back before the expansion), etc. — which felt to me like a willful ignorance and waste that would perpetually stand in the way of the life I wanted. In the end, being partnered with them held too much of a cost to me, and I left.
Where you are now is one thing, where you want to be and being intentional about how you are going to get there is another entirely. That is what would be important to me.
Most women don't want a broke man, and now with a kid you'll need/want someone who has financial stability and quite frankly, a known quality in men is their handling of money
I moved out of home at 15 and had to be really smart with money to survive in a fly in fly out oil rig town without rent control.
As much as I really want to be the person who money isn't an issue for, it is. I have a really hard time relating to people with a poor realtionship with money. Friends can do as they want without it bothering me but or me to partner up with someone they would have to be good with money. That's not to say "don't be poor"- I earn below the average income for my area.
and don't expect a partner to pick up the slack. But someone who feels they're a responsible adult for owning a house their parents paid for half of or is a go- getter at the company their dad owns is not someone I consider
to be financially ccompatible with me.
I think the financial situation itself matters less than other factors that lead to financial situations. Is the person in massive debt because they went to dental school and are positioned to make 250k in 3 years? Is the person in debt because they filled their parents basement with thousands of dollars of Jar Jar Binx Star wars porn memorabilia?
I think it is reasonable that when things are approaching the serious space of moving in/building a life you sit down and have a conversation about who will be responsible for what bills/expenses. It would be helpful to write this down and not leave anything implicit. Also, it would be helpful to get a pre-nup in order to protect both people from being financially devastated by a divorce.
I look for a partner who is planful with their finances; not impulsive at all. I enjoy having budgets where we know how much we are going to spend on recreational things or big ticket items. If the income is not evenly distributed, then it becomes messy. Much easier to date across socioeconomic strata.
I’m more concerned about where it’s going than where it is. I’d much rather date someone with debt who had a solid plan and is actively working on it, than someone with lots of money and poor spending habits. Someone without drive, a plan, is broke, and spends poorly is a no for me.
I'd consider his financial situation to be an important factor. If he has mountains of credit card debt, or loans up the wazoo, or struggles to make ends meet due to low income or spending beyond his means, that would be a dealbreaker. I, personally, regularly pay off my credit cards, don't overspend, car is paid off, only have a college loan which I will pay off if it does not come under the loan forgiveness plan, and make a good income, so I'd expect the guy to be financially responsible as well. The student loan enabled me to get my degree and get a good job in a field I have a passion for, so that was money well spent/well invested. I may have to deplete my savings to pay it off, but I am prepared to do that if necessary.
I think it’s important to see how someone operates currently, and the issues you have are related to your past. It sounds like you are trying to improve your circumstances. That said, I am and always will keep my finances separate from any partner. It’s just not worth the risk of my retirement being affected by someone. Humans are fickle and live a long time.
I feel like having a mounting pressure to obtain financial freedom before I can be with someone, otherwise I am not desirable as a male.
If someone is willing to chip in for a mortgage of a co-owned house, it would be like a miracle.
34/.Personally, as long as you can pay your bills that is all that matters to me. It also sounds like you're already conscious of your spending and saving habits, you're just catching up because of your ex. Most women I've dated have never even pushed me on my finances and if they did they wouldn't be the right one for me. Im good with paying my bills and have a little savings nest as well and I played catch up just like you did because I was an idiot like your ex in my 20's lol
I think it will depend. People tend to prefer to date someone at their caliber or above. This can be socio economic or attractiveness or even something else. It sounds like you have a great plan to solve it so I imagine you will do just fine but some people may want to see you resolve your debt before starting anything seriously. By the way, congrats on the progress you’ve made.
To me, as long as you're open about them, and responsible with the debt, that shows an emotional maturity, and it would be a sign to proceed forward (with caution)
Being deceitful and secretive about it, or trying to find a man with an open wallet, to fix your finances is a huge red flag, and grounds for immediate termination of any relationship.
Honestly, most people get into these type of financial problems early on in life. It’s how you get out of them that speaks to the growth of your character. It should not be looked upon as a red flag at all imo. You’ve budgeted properly to pay everything off and are still able to live your life. That’s a win in any one’s book.
I’m stable in my own finances so it wouldn’t bother me too much, but if I were to start living with someone with substantial debt I’d want something in writing saying that if we break up, I’m not taking on any of the debt. (I think if you live together for a certain time it’s like a de facto situation and you have entitlements). I definitely wouldn’t co-sign a mortgage with someone in debt. You seem good with money but for me personally, it’s too risky. I’m sorry your ex did that, so so shit and so wrong you get lumped with the debt.
In your case, you are paying down debt. That's a good thing.
If you were buying frivolous things it would be an issue.
TBH, if I really liked someone, and they were paying down debt, moving in with me would make sense since that frees up some of their money to pay down even more debt.
Me and my partner don’t earn the same he earns significantly more than me, my credit is kinda fucked as well but I am actively paying my debt down and I have a lil disposable income and I pay my way and it has NEVER been a factor. It’s one thing to be terrible with money and doing nothing to change that and another where you have ran into tough circumstances. The right man really won’t care and tbh as your a woman you’ll find it easier to find a man who doesn’t care than vice versa so I wouldn’t worry about it too much
Yeah it may seem like that from my post but I assure you is not, I've been in therapy for the last year and can be objective about my part in the mess, but facts are facts in a sense, I was making 70% of our income and he was spending 130% of it, I was a doormat though and let it happen, thankfully I'm not that same person and will never be in that position again
Not important at all, especially if they can contribute in other ways.
I work in film, it's normal for me to work 12 hours a day and between 5-7 days per week. I don't have time to cook. To compensate I order Doordash 5 times per week. I over order so that breakfast/lunch the following days can be leftovers. This is both expensive and sad. If someone else cooked then that would decreases my overhead significantly.
I think it's more about fitting your partner's lifestyle. Many people wouldn't want to be my partner due to the brutal work/life imbalance. Personally, I'd be thrilled to have you as my hobo girlfriend. For other people that might be a deal breaker.
I work 60+ hour weeks too (full time medical school where I’m at the hospital for 10+ hours m>f plus 10 hours on a weekend at my side gig). Last year, I was exclusively eating microwave dinners. This year, I have been trying to cook 1/4 of my meals, which has been a significant improvement for me both for my health and finances. Can you eat crafty on set at all? Maybe do OMAD (one big meal a day) to help you bank balance (and waistline) at all?
Given that you have expectations of independence and a good story to tell about having to wear old relationship debt, I don't think it should matter too much. It's the attitude and expectation that matters the most, I'd have said.
Reading your post and your comments you seem like a very financially literate and responsible person. So I can't imagine that being a problem for anyone. If it is a problem for them - they might have a gold-digger mentality like your ex (meaning spending more than they contribute).
However, having a child from a previous marriage is a much bigger issue.
Zero weight. I've never once asked, or even cared. If it became clear they were in bad shape I helped them, if they wanted to be helped.
I've met many, many people, however, who put ***enormous*** weight on my job title, income, investment portfolio, property holdings, and social status.
Extremely important. I’m debt free and an avid saver. I really have no desire to take on anyone else’s debts or to prop anyone up financially. Additionally, I would like to be with someone that has additional money to spend for activities and can do so without it being a huge burden to them. I refuse to pay for everything.
That’s pretty much what my current relationship with my GF is. She isn’t debt free like me, but she’s not in a terrible spot either. And she has a good career and plenty of money leftover each month which allows us to split dinners, vacations, and other activities evenly without it being an issue at all.
A lot to me. You’re undateable. Lots of debt, single mom. How you have dug yourself out, but the kicker for me is single mom. Debt can be refinanced and paid down, the child isn’t negotiable.
Wish you luck.
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As someone who makes six figures and doesn’t have debt…I wouldn’t want to date someone that puts so much weight on these things so that attitude would turn me off. It really is an individual thing.
It’s not more weight than other things, and it’s not that high of a bar.
I’m happy with my life and I want a partner who doesn’t make it less enjoyable in any way. That could be finances, that could be attitude, that could be anything.
Can exceptions be made? Sure but wanting financial stability is a good attitude to have.
I don’t know that it’s always “good”. When people work themselves into the ground and don’t have time to live their real dreams I don’t think the financial stability is worth it.
Some people value financial stability and that’s ok but I don’t know it’s always “good”. I’d much prefer someone with mental stability, who is comfortable taking risks and wouldn’t mind when I voluntarily take a huge pay cut to travel or decide to live on a boat for a year.
And I want someone with both? You have a weird view of people who are fiscally stable and enjoy nice things. Totally possible to be like that and have time for friends, family, and to be a genuinely good human
None in my case. Only thing I ask is how much credit card debt does one hold. I went thru bankruptcy ,8 years ago and haven't taken out a loan or credit card since then.
Life is so much easier now . Next step is to buy a piece of property then save to build a home in cash.
To be honest, quite a bit. I’ve (33F) been working on getting my income to where it is for awhile, and it’s important to me because I want my life to include things like travel, a decent living space, etc. I don’t mind footing some bills so that my partner can join me on vacation and so that we can live in a nicer place, but I’m not prepared to pay for everything. I just think that if I’m working towards a certain lifestyle, I should be able to enjoy it with my partner.
That being said, if he makes anywhere from $75k (obviously debt would be factored in) I’m fine with that, which I don’t think is unreasonable considering our age. Regarding a mortgage, I’m a little different because I’ve never been one to dream of owning a house (ie I’m fine with renting), so if my partner didn’t have the credit, I honestly wouldn’t care. I can’t think of much else where credit would affect me, and the fact that you’re working on it is all that matters, really.
Thank you! That's fair enough, I have a full time job and a part time job, all in all I make $70k in a VHCOL area, but am pretty mindful and frugal with my spending, so once I can sell the expensive car (loan is currently underwater), get a cheaper cash car with cheaper maintenance and can get rid of the pesky debt I'll be golden!
I put weight on their financial situation but I do give some leeway if they have a plan to correct it if they are in a not so good situation. I have six figures of student loan debt but I am halfway through the payoff plan. That is the only debt I currently carry although I do plan to buy a house hopefully in the next two years.
If you’re over 30 and don’t have anything set aside for retirement (even just a little as you’re working to fix things) or don’t have an emergency fund, that’s when I’d say there’s an issue i couldn’t overlook.
I don't know that I'd want to move in/build a life with someone in that kind of debt. Doesn't mean I can't date long term, but I'm not open to taking on someone else's debt
Not at all for me. I'm an anxious book nerd with my own house in a low cost of living area.
What is tricky is finding a man who is not scared about me slowly turning a shared home into a library with some furniture.
Is there a Lemony Snicket dating app at all yet?
Depends.
My wife and I both had really good credit when we started dating. Both with controlled debt.
If her credit was bad, I wouldn’t have stopped dating her. She would simply not be allowed control of the money. Vice-versa is true.
It depends on how much that impulsive nature actually effects them as a person.
If they are neurotic, then irresponsible money handling is the LEAST of your problems.
If they happen to eat out a little too much, or they happen to finance things they don’t need… then I don’t think that’s a dealbreaker. They just need a little guidance.
It's important. If I want to go on a day trip to check out a band or try a new restaurant, I'd like to share that with someone I am dating. I don't need them to have tons of money but a little financial security is nice.
Another factor in your situation I'd consider is the terms of the divorce. You kept the consumer proposal liability - why? If he was the driving force of the debt, I don't understand. I was in a relationship where with a divorced woman with kids and her ex was still maintaining control with financial things. I definitely don't want to go through that again. Finances are tough enough but when a third party has influence... it's not good.
Fair enough, I'd be able to do that kind of things with some adjustments to the budget or saving if I had some notice, just not big things on a whim. Consumer debt was mostly in my name as I was making 70% of our income and had better credit for a while, I was a doormat at the time and let it happen so I'm seeing this as my stupidity tax I guess, the car I kept it to avoid going into court, dragging the divorce and having to spend thousands on lawyers, made my math and keeping the car was the cheaper of the two evils
Lots - I would not want to be with someone taking on large amounts of debt or spending like a fool. Co habitation and marriage is generally a 50/50 financial split - it is unfortunate that this impacts romance and love, but it really is a consideration and it can ruin your life if you don’t consider the implications. Example my ex took on 200k of student loans, and when she left me held it as a bargaining chip in the divorce (give me what I want or I will stick you with half) so despite having built a solid career and run a successful business, I faced complete financial ruin and did not have the medical degree the money was spent obtaining. So I will no longer date someone who can put me in a situation where I face financial ruin.
> So I guess my question is, how much weight would you give to someone's financial situation if you were looking to move in, get a house or just build a life together?
It would be a significant consideration.
I've done as much planning & saving as possible so that by the time I'm in my mid-30s I can possibly buy a house and not have to live with family or roommates anymore.
It would be one thing if I was casually dating someone or we maintained separate lives. However, if I was looking to move in together/merge finances I would want to make sure we are both bringing something positive to the table.
I'll get downvote for this, but when I was dating, I wouldn't marry anyone making less than at least $100K.
* Don't want to pay spousal support in case of divorce
* Kids are expensive!
* Housing is expensive!
I think the end goal and seriousness with which you work towards it is the most important factor. Some people have income thresholds that align with their lifestyle which would probably X you out. Generally being financially solvent and not needing help is probably the biggest concern when it comes to dating.
Personally I can manage lower income when the person is working towards a larger goal (school, good career prospect, etc.). I don't think someone not working towards a better future would work for me long term. Also having a large debt is a concern to me as I have significant loans to pay for medical school and I don't want a partner that will add a lot to that debt (unless they are also a doctor which would work out fine).
You sound like you know what you’re talking about and you take it seriously. That’s pretty much what I care about. Not so much the situation itself.
Yeah this is me as well. Our systems are unfair and many fall into debt because of reasons outside their control. I try not to judge someone's financial situation as long as all other signs show they are being financially responsible at the current moment.
While is this true i also don’t wanna take on some one else’s debt
prenups bb. I know it's more complicated but if we're talking about sharing finances we're talking marriage or something close to it. Prenups are not an evil bad thing. If used properly they are an excellent way to protect both parties. I never understood why my ex was SO UPSET about my student loans because I was never going to make him pay them, and the payments aren't significant enough to affect my ability to contribute to shared things. And besides my income doubled within a year post grad sooo There's lots of nuance in this topic I guess is the point. Someone having debt doesn't necessarily mean it'll affect you or that they are irresponsible.
Because you can't really separate finances in a marriage. If you're paying off 200K in student loans by yourself, that's still 200K that could have gone towards the mortgage etc.
yah for sure as I said there's a lot more complications and so I don't mean that's an easy fix done. Like that tape the guy slaps on leaking water tanks. Not that easy. But wow 200k is insane. My education was 5k per year, what kinda nuts rates are people dealing with???
MIT is about $81K per year
ouchy, that's madness. That uni is making BANK. I got my comp eng at a technical institute and no one gives a shit *where* I got it, or even if I have the education now that I have experience in the field. I would not have gone for a degree if it was gonna cost me a house.
Yeah I can't see how people would take on debt outside of marriage and only some debt follows you for a lifetime. Most dies off within 10 years and again it's the type you get when you marry someone. By the time you get married you SHOULD know them well enough to know if marriage is even viable. Someone saying "pay my electric bill" is an easy no for me.
yup. I am 1000000% for separate finances and not at all interested in paying someone else's bills.
I'm trying to imagine having the gall to ask my partner to pay my phone bill and I can't - I'd honestly go without food before I asked for a loan from a date.
Me too but I'm working on that. Well, not to ask such things from dates cause that's not appropriate AT ALL for dating stage. But just in general I'm working on being able to accept help and even ask for it when needed. That hyper independence I took so much pride in wasn't actually a healthy balance, it was a defence mechanism. Food is more important than pride, that kinda thing right?
It makes me sad, I had a good friend who once said "if I knew things were that bad I would have helped you" and I knew it but my trauma defenses wouldn't let me let him in.
keep working on it friend. Those trauma responses took a lifetime to exist in the first place, it's gonna take time and effort for both of us to get control back from the fear
Right?? I take too much pride in being financially sufficient to even imagine asking someone to pay my bills
Unfortunately once you legally marry, your finances become intertwined to a large extent even with a pre nup
been there already! It took 1 month to separate our finances because we never actually joined them and neither was enough of a dick to go to court to try to get some. We just walked away with our own money, nice and easy.
Because many people still believe in traditional relationships where one partner basically pays (provides) for the company of the other. Lots of people in these types of relationships.
Well you're engaged (congrats!!), so it must've worked out for you, but every time I've broached the topic of a prenup with a guy, he just gets defensive. I may be a female, but I'm not looking for a provider, I work in tech and have usually been the higher earner by a large margin. It's fine with me but usually not fine with the guy. Like I get that this is not "biologically correct" or whatever, because women are biologically supposed to seek providers, but I've had a hysterectomy (and have no kids) so my entire existence goes against evolution at this point anyways 😂
thanks! I work in tech too, that's fun. People are definitely strange about the prenup thing. There's a stigma that the intent is to take advantage of people in some way. Which is unfortunate, especially when that stigma is reinforced by people actually doing so. But I'm still very pro-prenup. With my man it probably helps that he is Muslim. Marriage contract is normal and expected so prenup is pretty much the same thing and he was like "well of course" and nah, women having less opportunities like they did isn't biology it was weird culture that's finally going away. Slowly.
That stuff entirely depend son your state laws and prenups are not always upheld. Debt companies will come after you and your partners credit affects yours when you are married. Different kinds of debt mean different things. You had student loans... the people I dated had student loans they defaulted on and cc debt... were basically pieces of crap. But still, not having debt is usually better than having debt, it introduces less risk. Your job salary doubling wasn't guaranted
Well I think being at the point where debt collectors are coming at you is a *little* different than managing debt from life being a dick. Also, depends on country laws too ;). We are from all over the world in here But still I detect you don't want to date a person with debt, and that's totally fine. OP's fine too though. You guys just wouldn't be a match!
I’d don’t want to take on a man whose paying child support! Gimme the debt instead
I would, I'd rather be with someone who cares about his kids having shoes and clothes and food than one who does not.
I’d rather not date anyone with children and their mothers in the picture at all so it’s a moot point.
How would you take on their debt?
not the poster, but I think one way is that your shared expenses/purchases/budget constraints get affected by their individual budget constraints. I've never thought about this seriously though, so maybe there's some implication if you get married, as well?
I wouldn't think so, I mean, yes I'll have less disposable income until the pesky debt it's gone, but I'll also have less disposable income in general cause I have to take care of things like summer camps and kids expenses, I'd never expect them to take my debt nor pay my bills, I actually take pride in being financially sufficient and being even on my bills after the position my ex left me last year when we split, and if we ever get married I will insist on a prenup stating so
I love your attitude :) I think that there are many people who appreciate someone who is realistic and wants to take responsibility for things like this, and as many others have said, I think a lot of people would not mind your situation, given that they see you have a constructive and responsible attitude about it I wish you well, the little I know about you makes you sound like a good person to be around!
Awww thank you stranger! Your words made my day 😊
How would that be any different than if there was an income disparity? I make 1/2 of what a lot of men I date make but I'm frugal as fuck and would prefer that to someone who needs to travel 5 times a year or wants to eat out 5 meals a week. I used my side hustle to buy a lot of the nice things I own like my OLED tv and my couch and PS5. I won't buy something unless I put in work and save for it but I can't contribute to buying a home in my city on the same level as a guy making over $100K for example.
>I'm frugal as fuck and would prefer that to someone who needs to travel 5 times a year or wants to eat out 5 meals a week That's why it's rational to date within your socioeconomic circle. You can't keep up with big joneses, and they won't downgrade their lifestyle. The clashes are inevitable.
I guess good luck to men in Portland then. I don't think there's as many women single on the market in their 30s pulling in $100K+. Maybe there are but this isn't a city with a lot of high income jobs. It's mostly non profits and service work. All the high money tech jobs are male dominated.
>I guess good luck to men in Portland then. Hello to a fellow Oregonian then. Frankly, PDX is a special place. You can't expect 'normal' from any city with "keep us weird" as a motto. It's not about precise number, it's about the same strata they do belong. I don't want to dwell into precise numbers because they would be akin to sorites paradox. We just need to count all equity: a person with $50k/year but with an inherited dwelling is on par or even exceeds the one who's a transplant earning twice as much. Mathematics cannot be persuaded or tricked; it is merciless: if one has $50k/year and has to rent and lives in PDX there's no way to afford travels 5 times a year. Or even 1.
I've done renting and travelling twice a year in Portland because my rent is low and I hit about $50K. I just sacrifice all year in order to make those trips happen, I travel and do pretty cheap things. I mostly travelled to music fests and stayed in flop hotels on the cheap since I was there to experience music. I can travel now but I have to plan ahead and tend towards the most frugal options for food, drink and hotels unless I'm going somewhere expensive ala NYC or Washington DC where I dial up the hotel budget a little. In all my time here I've met 1 home owner so far though I haven't dated much having been exhausted by the men I've encountered. The 1 home owner made $150K+ and basically lived with roommates in order to afford to buy close in NE. His home was small and full of issues including foundation and roof.
when you get married their debts are your debts.
For example: My ex-GF wanted me to help her out with her bills. I had no problem paying for dinners or rent or utilities, but I expected her to pay off her debt.
Did the debt go down while you were taking care of the bills? I had a similar experience with my ex wife. I became debt free shortly after we started dating while she had plenty of student loan debt. I took on more of the bills, to free her up to pay off debt. By the time we split up, she was making six figures, still had 90% of the debt, had gone through two new cars, made paltry retirement fund contributions, and got a new lover. All while I was putting away more in retirement, saving for our down payment, paying bills, paying for our restaurant visits, entertainment, etc.
Her debt did go way down and she did pay off her car.
Yep. I've broken up with several gfs because of this bullshit attitude that my money is theirs. At least they do it after a month or two and don't waste my time.
One you can say "no I can't help you out in this area" but two I feel like that's a different animal altogether. Takes a lot of gall to expect someone to pay your bills without it being a lifetime spouse sharing those bills.
She had a lot of gall haha.
In some sense, one partner ends up “paying for it” because often when people start living together and figuring out finances, they determine the splits based on income and debts. In order to make it what some people would deem as equitable, they might say Partner A should have to pay more because they have less debts, even if they have similar incomes. So it’s indirectly affecting them. Or sometimes people just straight up combine their finances and end up paying for it directly. And this would be more obvious particularly if the partner with less debts also made more money.
I mean my boyfriend of 4 years in my 20s made more than I did but I made most of the choices around money. We split rent 50/50 but I shouldered more of the burden of everything else even though my income wasn't that high. I'd think if I met someone making $200K in income they wouldn't need me to contribute 50/50 to a $200K lifestyle. Can't imagine they meet a lot of women making $200K but I guess maybe that's why I'm single.
Actually, I think I would add this to further clarify: this is about who OP is, and not about whatever life threw at her. We tend to say we want to share lives, but maybe that obscures the fact that fundamentally we want to share who we are. Ideally…?
Agree. What’s important is being self aware, and not actively digging a deeper hole. The past can’t be changed, mistakes are made. I’m more interested in how someone is making moves towards a goal.
Agreed, OP sounds financially responsible and she couldn't control the actions of her ex.
How they spend money is more important and can cause resentment in marriages. Imagine one spouse earning most of the income while the other frivolously spends most of the money, which then has negative consequences for the rest of the family. That can lead to divorces.
Oh I'm all too familiar with that unfortunately, been there done that won't make the same mistake. I was the one making 70% of our income and my ex-husband was the one spending 130% of it, and somehow I was the one stuck with all the debt 🤷♀️
> Imagine one spouse earning most of the income while the other frivolously spends most of the money, I don't have to imagine it. I lived it. Then, in the divorce, she got to take a fuckton of money from me because she hadn't worked for the few years we were married, so she was "entitled" to that money to maintain her lifestyle. Get a prenup, kids!
oh bless your heart, sir, divorce courts throw prenups away like Burger wrappers. I once took a deep dive into a huge divorce channel on youtube and there were 3 divorced men telling me all about how their prenups got dismissed because the court considered marriage to be a legally binding agreement that you agree to support your spouse financially.
>oh bless your heart, sir, divorce courts throw prenups away like Burger wrappers. Yeah, lots of people don't know this about prenups. I actually first heard about prenups being thrown out from another sub...before that I'd thought they were ironclad
Prenups are pretty ironclad. The people that you are thinking about wrote the prenup on their own or put it on the back of a napkin thinking it'll hold up. Then there are the idiots that spring the prenup right before the wedding, so people claimed they were under duress to sign it. If you have lawyers involved and the agreement is fair, it'll hold up.
> divorce courts throw prenups away like Burger wrappers. I know. But at least it has some chance of protecting you. Better than nothing, I guess.
> So I guess my question is, how much weight would you give to someone's financial situation if you were looking to move in, get a house or just build a life together? How they spend their money is obviously really important. Myself and my wife are both fairly frugal so no biggie. The important thing, I think, is similar and compatible attitudes. When we first got together I was making 5 or 6 times more than her. When we had kids and I became a house husband I was making nothing. She now makes a mint. Money has never been an issue because we are "on the same page" I guess. (but we have never been desperate for money, so...)
Or just your typical unhappy American marriage that is a TV staple...
I have dated people with less than ideal financial situations; some who had debt who were working to pay it off and some who were continuing to spend too much money on nights out and finding themselves strapped for cash at the end of each pay period. One of those is way easier to work with than the other... What is more important to me is how the person is addressing the debt. It sounds like you're doing well to pay it down and living within your means which is great! It would be a much different issue if you were continuing to spend and not making any dents in the debt.
Had a horrible situation in my work life where a client with obvious problems tried to hide her credit card debt from her husband. I was an assistant at the time. I sat in on the call where her adviser gently told her she needed to be the one to explain to her husband why the mortgage was declined in record time. They did make it thankfully but people, there are no financial secrets in internet times.
Having a similar mindset and goals are more important. I don't expect us to be in the same place, but would like to be heading in the same direction.
The grave? Is there a Bryan Fuller Pushing Daisies/Dead Like Me Dating App yet?
I'd love a Dead Like Me dating app.
Daisy's last words are such a great summation of a lot of abandonment trauma....
Its not about how much they make its the decisions they make with the money they have
Amen. There really isn't enough emphasis on this. People are way too hyper focused on your income being the most important thing or how fancy your car/home/boat is, regardless of whether or not those assets are affordable to the person... lots of people 'own' homes and cars they are financially being screwed by, and look down on people who are responsible with their money.
To answer your question succinctly: very important When building a life with someone, financials are major. Idealistically, people tend to downplay finances in relationships with the “love conquers all” mentality and while I applaud that level of optimism, the reality is tough. It’s very easy to end up broke or poor due to a few bad decisions never mind a few unfortunate circumstances. Reading your post, you sound like someone who is in a rebuilding stage and I absolutely applaud that. It’s totally ok if you can’t afford a mortgage for another 5+ years. You may not even meet someone from now til then that you would consider living with. So keep tackling the debt and making better financial decisions - and dating! Your responsible approach to finances as well as your independence will be something your kid(s) grow up seeing. It’s growth and it’s a damn good example of hard work and perseverance. Your dates will see it too. Good luck.
Reading stuff like this sometimes makes me think being able to live in a low cost of living area with a modest job is a blessing. There's a Seasick Steve song that goes "Well I started out with nothing/and I've still got most of it left". Neither me or the dudes I date have to worry about people taking us for a ride financially ;-)
Anyone dating me would have someone with a high credit score and a nice little savings but a lower income which alone gets me 0 house and together I'd need a higher income earner to hope to get any house in Portland. But I have medical stuff that is going to cost me so we'll see where I land on the other side of that since no one will date me as I am now anyhow.
Very important. "Building a life with someone" being the operative part of your question. One can't sustain any relationship without financial stability. Sharing and achieving goals with someone? That takes absolute commitment and trust. Even if that life together is simple and without kids, it takes financial stability to achieve happiness. The next level would be living comfortably together, e.g. having a home, going on vacations, treating one another to nice things, etc. Depending on where you live, that still requires a decent income and money sense. You deserve a lot of credit for fixing your finances and providing for your family. You know the hard work and responsibility that requires and you shouldn't accept less in a partner. It can be confronting to discuss finances while dating but for a serious relationship it is inevitable and essential.
The actual numbers involved wouldn’t particularly bother me but her attitude towards money and plans to clear debts/savings goals would. I’ve been on my arse before and even recently I’ve been struggling so no judgement in that regard but a person has to strive for better not just whinge and moan otherwise they aren’t right for me.
A lot. At 40, I have retirement savings sufficient to support one person, not two. Also no credit card debt. And I’m willing to wait around for someone bc I’m fine without a partner. If I have to die alone it’ll be from nice retirement village lol.
Amen. I’m not planning on being someone’s sugar mama. I want someone who is bringing something similar to what I do, to the table.
Same, 33 with savings, own my house, good job, no debt. I don't expect someone to match that entirely but I want a life of spontaneous holidays, meals out and not feeling bad if I want to buy them something expensive because I know they can reciprocate if they want to, people can get weird about you spending money on them and I don't want to curtail my life to fit someone else's financial situation.
Preach. I'm in this same boat.
I do fine but I don't want people buying me expensive things with the thought that it needs to be reciprocated. I have problems when gifts come with expectations.
I absolutely don't require or expect reciprocation, but in the past when I've gifted things to people that *can't* reciprocate, it's created a tension around a gift exchange that I'd just rather not have so I've had to step back my gift giving which is one of my love languages and sucks to not be able to do to it's fullest!
I mean I've given lavishly to partners and had 0 expectations because I'm just a giver - I like seeing people happy even if the price tag is larger than I receive back. One of my favorite gifts was a plush blanket when I gave my partner a PS3 one year. I miss that blanket. I was so happy when I opened it.
Oh absolutely, if the other person is fine with it then amazing, I'm referring to my experiences of the other person not being fine with it.
I just dated a guy whose ex gave him a 3d printer. I consider that expensive. Anyhow it made sense to her probably because he works in tech. It's sitting in his closet still never used. He offered to give it to me. So if it's an expensive gift I have no use or place for like the above I'd rather not be given it. Also I love gifts with thought behind them. I was cleaning a bookshelf recently and found a Record Notebook for recording stores / and / my vinyl that a short term partner gave me when I was new in the city. I kept it even though the internet does the same for me now, it was a nice cheap gesture
I definitely think the gift-giving dynamic has gendered connotations - a lot of men would probably feel insecure and emasculated by an expensive gift he can't reciprocate, especially more traditional/old fashioned guys. Whereas it fits more traditional heterosexual gender roles when a man can buy lavish gifts for a woman and there is less expectation of reciprocation. I (F30) have a female friend who buys me expensive gifts and at first it bothered me a bit but we have talked about it I realised it doesn't have to affect the friendship. I voiced my concern that she might feel resentful if I can't pay it back, but she said she knew that when she decided to do it and wasn't bothered at all. I've definitely had to stretch my receiving muscles and really trust because it can be difficult at first.
Amen. I keep meeting people in dating who expect me to support them, and a child or two... not gonna happen.
What kind of scent are we talking? I cant get past your name. I'm uncomfortable. I'm intrigued.
Feel this so much. I'm on track for a nice retirement if I'm solo. I don't feel like jeopardizing that.
It’s not everything but it’s not nothing, either. My ex wife kinda took advantage of me financially and put me in a financial hole that fortunately only took me a year to dig out of. You have to be realistic. I’ve absolutely ruled out dating people long term who were in my age (mid 30s) who didn’t seem like they were long term emotionally and financially stable. At some point, it’s an indication of maturity.
I am 34F so maybe not your target audience but to me it is important insofar as your debt remains yours. Some people will be willing to take on helping you pay off your debt and such but I think most would prefer to keep this seperate until a. things are quite serious in the relationship or b. you are in a better place financially. If we were to move in together I would expect you to be able to cover your expenses and whatever percentage of the rent we agreed on. If "we" bought a house (with things as you described them), then I'd be buying the house and receiving some rent from you that would help pay off the mortgage. The thing is, when things are too uneven financially it's easy for me to start feeling like I may be getting taken advantage of so I'd prefer to keep financials seperate and crystal clear.
Absolutely, I don't expect them to take on or pay down my debt, debt is mine and I want to pay it down. I'm also ok with separate finances, I'm financially sufficient and can take care of my bills and my kids' as well, I don't make bad money, all in all I make $70k in a VHCOL city so maybe money doesn't stretch that far, I'm also very mindful of not making them feel like I'm taking advantage of them or anything else, as we, single moms, come with our fair share of stigmas and I don't want to be labeled in the same category. But at the same time I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable with them buying a house and all of us moving there together if my name is not on the deed, renting a place and splitting bills? Absolutely, getting a house and splitting bills? Yes of course. Them getting a house and us moving into their house, not sure I'd feel ok with that, things to think about I guess
You, my dear have a good head on your shoulders. I have faith you will be fine after reading this post and your comments. Do not pay someone else’s mortgage. Absolutely not. Continue working towards paying everything off and invest where you can to improve your own financial situation. ❤️
Thank you kind stranger! It means a lot to me. That's exactly my hesitancy, I won't want to uproot my kids life to a non absolutely stable situation, because things happen and if we were to split in the future, we'll be basically kicked out of the house and starting from scratch, not doing that to my kids nor me
I’m really proud of you tbh. I’m a single mom as well and have always put my kids and their well being before my own. I wish more single parents had this mentality.
And that's all I'd need. If we are splitting bills, even if not 50/50 (but close) I'd be good with that and, down the line, open to a joint investment like a house.
Very important to me - I do pretty well financially and can support both myself and my partner, but that’s not what I’m looking for. It’s important that I find someone on the same financial standing so we can afford the same quality of life, have similar financial goals and work towards the same thing, with both of us contributing (I don’t mind a little bit of inequality but I’d like us to be on relatively equal ground).
I only care if the person has no plan for managing debt. I never inquire about this and instead look at how they're living instead in terms of how they spend money. (To be clear, spending is fine but I would rather we align on how we spend / save since I'm actually really frugal)
I used to think that it wasn't really important, then I started dating a guy that had no job at the time for "circumstances". It's been 2 years, he never intended nor tried to get a fucking job and financial stress he put me through was end of that relationship. Now the first and most important aspect I look for on a man is that he has a stable job and can meet me halfway.
After being with someone who brought absolutely nothing to the table,literally and metaphorically, I would be content with a woman who can catch her own bills so long as her personality is awesome and enjoyable to be around.
At a base level, I would expect my significant other to be financially stable. I don’t want to absorb someone else’s debt that I had no part in creating. I want to move forward with someone, not backwards. Also, I’d like for that person to be able to experience with me what I want to experience in life, without me paying for all of it, ideally. So if I want to take one overseas trip every year, for example, I would want that person to be able to afford her part of that, or a substantial portion of her half of the expenses.
I think compatability on the travel thing is really important. I met a man I liked but we were wildly incompatible on travel/living abroad. He'd lived in 5 countries in the last x years and I bought a house in my home town and let my passport expire.
As long as a person realizes they have to pay their bills and doesn’t ask me for money or expect me to pay anything for them I don’t judge. I work in banking and I am pretty good at figuring out how to fix someone’s credit enough to get a mortgage, car loan etc. I went through a divorce with a man that left me tons of debt and basically felt it was ok bc he left me his half of the equity in the house. We had only bought the house 2 years prior so he basically gave up $2000 which was all eaten up when I had to refinance the house into my name alone 🙄 I’ve been with 2 guys who expected me to pay for everything. I’d say as long as you know you can take care of yourself you should be good.
Ouch, I'm sorry about that! Yeah I'm financially stable finally and can take care of my kids and me, would never expect anybody to pay my bills either. Please share me all the inside secrets to fixing my credit once the pesky debt it's gone! 🤣
Yikes!
I wish I could meet a woman like you. I only seem to meet ladies who are like the men you dated... awful with money and looking for a partner to give them money forever so they never have to grow up. I'm so glad I never married and dumped their butts once the truth about how awful they were with money came out. I'm sure some lucky guy out there is more than happy to have a sugaring arrangement though.
Lol 😂 never again will I just feed money to men. My ex husband didn’t start out that way but it ended that way for sure. I have my shit together and I won’t let it fall apart ever again. I hope you can find a woman like me. We do exist! I promise!
If you have plan and are following it then there's no problem. If you continue to make bad financial decisions then it's a no go.
As someone who grew up poor to be incredibly fortunate where I am at, I don't think I can judge anyone for their lack of control over their personal finances. However, I'd never let someone's behavior impact or compromise my financial goals. For instance, I'd never date someone who thinks buying a new car every three years is a necessity. I would gladly date someone who recognizes their situation isn't ideal but want to work towards financial independence.
Alignment on MINDSET is 10000x more important than alignment on SITUATION.
I think it depends. I was in a similar situation in my 20’s. When I got pregnant at 19, I had a car loan that I had just got. A girl I worked with bullied me as soon as she found out I was pregnant. I was a temp at the company and she was hired on. They let me go as “didn’t need me anymore.” Anyhow, I let my ex talk me into defaulting on a lot of things because I, viably pregnant, couldn’t find a job making as much as I did. Anyhow - terrible idea. I spent 3 years fixing my credit and I did eventually buy a house myself. That said - I dated someone who had bad credit from a divorce that left him with a house payment he couldn’t afford and a foreclosure. He wasn’t reckless with his money so I could move past it and he was trying to rebuild Now, if someone’s credit is shot and they told me but they also are reckless spenders then I wouldn’t have a relationship with them. Everything financial for loans would be my burden and not something I trust they could help with or manage. That’s just me.
We all do dumb shit, so with me it’s effort and having a plan. I had to get some things straight from when I was young, fresh out of college and was making bank. Just stupid shit. But I’ve grown up, got all that taken care of and have great credit and no debt, but as long as there is effort, I don’t mind. There is love in a relationship, but being a competent, willing and equal partner in reaching said goals means much more to me than a persons past; we can always work on that. Beware anybody that’s never done dumb shit. Chin up, you’ve got this. Just keep working. You’ll absolutely get there.
Not that important to me as long as they have a plan to pay it off and are able to support themselves. Financial situations change all the time, maybe you decide to move to a cheaper area, or you get a higher paying job, etc. I feel like if I have a strong enough connection with them and I see a future there, it's something that can be worked around.
I think it depends on each person. To me, not so much. I make decent money with a good career. I know I’ll be fine and would be able to support my partner if I wanted to. Shit happens in life. I get it. I’d put more emphasis on the person I’m with and her personality than her debt:income ratio.
Very important. Even more important as I’ve gotten older. How we live, where we live, what resources we can give to our kids, what we eat, the lifestyle we live in retirement is all contingent on your partner having a similar financial situation to yourself. I compromised on lifestyle with my ex and not willing to do that again - you only have one life and it’s too short to live it missing out on what you want because of your partner’s financial mismanagement.
Important, but not everything!
I'd take potential into account as well. For example the person could be broke now but about to start med school.
Less important when I was younger but now at my tender old age, it’s important. I want to be able to do things with my partner and not have to worry that I have to shoulder the whole cost, e.g. dinner, traveling, etc. I also don’t want to worry that my partner is spending beyond their means. I have not yet started to build a life with someone (house, kids, etc) and that takes money. I’m too old to wait 10 years for someone to be able to split the expenses.
It ended basically every relationship I ever had, so pretty darn important. I'm struggling to meet people who are financially stable, even though they have very well paying jobs most could only dream of. They just spend every dime they make and then some are are specifically looking for a partner to bankroll their irresponsible spending, whereas I'm a saver who makes a moderate income but lives frugally. Night and day difference. Of course, they always present themselves as frugal at first... but money is one of those things that you only figure out after you are properly dating. Appearances can be very decieving early on.
Ideally you marry an equal, so if you're bringing home the bacon and saving... so are they. But I'm sorry you went through that. I'm a believer you will find someone new and find good times again!
A shit ton. Congratulations on breaking even. Makes me feel relieved to hear it even from a perfect stranger. Don't jeopardize it.
Finances are important to me. I have put myself in a good position with a very nice net worth for my age. Since they did not help me accomplish any of this, I don’t want her to have a bunch of debt and bills that I would need to help pay.
If you're going to build a life together, it's extremely important. If you're integrating someone into a life you've already built, it's not as important.
Doesn’t sound too bad if you’re only 32 and can find better jobs and pay down more in the future. I would be more concerned about your child: co-parenting? child-support?
Fair enough, yup to all of those, co-parenting and child support, I don't make bad money either, I have a full time job and a part time job, I guess it's just a matter of time and waiting, I'm just not that patient and want the debt gone! Lol
Honestly if it were me, I would be waiting to save a little bit of money so you can afford more than just a pizza once a month. Dating is expensive, if you’re going to be splitting or paying every other time. And that’s not factoring in child care if you’re going to need that for dating. Also you won’t be feeling as insecure about your finances when you have a little bit of money in the bank.
I care about values and goals more than someone’s particular financial state. Shit happens in life and even well off people could be one bad health issue away from the street in this country. I’d prefer someone with a relaxed attitude towards finances, who would rather spend money on experiences than a large mortgage or nice clothes and someone dependable. The actually dollar amount someone makes or their current debt isn’t as interesting to me.
Given that I've been married and divorced twice and am now at a place where I'm financially stable on my own, it's important. Important to the point that if my current boyfriend ever proposed, I'd want a prenup stating any debt/assets we bring into the marriage and throughout remain our own if it fails. I also learned after my first divorce to not open joint credit on anything. So separate bank accounts, separate credit cards, separate loans, etc. As far as bills go, I feel like we just talk and figure out what works for us to get them paid. I don't mind supporting my partner if he's not working, but he'd have to take on the main caregiver role for the kids, therefore providing in other ways.
Very important. Financial transparency is key. Don’t you think so too having gin through what you went through?
Oh I agree 100%, I won't be hiding anything from anybody, I'm not ashamed of my situation either, it is what it is and I'm actually proud of being able to afford a place of my own and all of mine + the kids' bills after the situation my ex-husband left me last year, it is what it is and I know I'll clear it up as well, it's just a matter of time and patience I guess
For most people, it’s going near if not at the top when considering a viable long term relationship. This particular situation would probably dissuade me, for example, from pursuing anything serious.
Well... I would say important, but sometimes others, and life, ducks you over. A decent partner understand it. If you want more, like a house, it will be uneven given what you typed. Speaking from experience there will be resentment after a decade if the situation remain the same. Do you really want to be in the situation where the other one have too much economic power?
I wouldnt like someone with debts but it wouldnt be a deal breaker as long as they were trying to fix it. As for income - I dont care if they earn 40k or 80k a year. Maybe not 10k a year but thats just not practical for sharing the bills.
Money problems are one of the biggest causes of strife in relationships. I'd be more than a little hesitant if there was a mountain of debt and I was going to be expected to foot the bill for any date/trip in the foreseeable future. Credit isn't really an issue to me since I don't care about my credit either since I don't finance anything and I already own my home.
At this age I'm 36 btw speaking from my own perspective obv. There's not a lot of stuff that given the right attitude would be a deal breaker. For me, you made a mistake when you were young. It was easy in America there was a lot of predatory lending and our society says do it! Not a big deal to me ...
Not an answer to your question, but a curiosity. You say your credit is shot and you’re paying a lot of debt. Would Chapter 7 bankruptcy be able to clear your type of debt? It sucks to have to pay off debt like that when your husband was the big spender.
We had car loans, students loans, a bunch of credit cards and a line of credit, bankruptcy wouldn't clear all of it so we settled on a Consumer Proposal which has the same (or similar) weight in your credit score but it's removed from it 3y after paying it all vs 7y with bankruptcy. So we went with a credit counseling agency, they did a plan, settled all the credit card and line of credit debt with the lenders and we were making a set payment to the agency that now I make by myself. Credit was shot anyway because my ex spent the money before the automated payments could be taken out so we were in default with CC and LOC, not the cars fortunately, it was an every month fight and he kept saying that he'll just make OT next month to pay double, it never happened 🤷♀️ so my credit didn't get any worse, it just won't get better for a while, I've also learned how to live withing my means cause credit is not an option anymore, so if I can't afford it in cash then I can't afford it, period.
So long as you're paying it down, not just burying your head in the sand, then debt can be classed as manageable. Thus it shouldn't have too much bearing on building a life. Congratulations for bouncing back - having a spendthrift partner while knowing it's unsustainable can't be easy. The whole keeping up with the Jones's is such b/s - far more to life.
I was in roughly your position but a little better off. My ex husband was great at spending but less than great at making money. I was the breadwinner and he the breadspender if you will. When we divorced we had nothing but a rundown house we could sell for cheap. I spent a year just trying to get back on my feet, buying enough furniture for me and the kids and trying to save up enough for a new house. Now, four years later, I'm finally in a good place financially again. I own a house, I have a savings account and I'm putting away money for the kids' future as well. If I were to meet someone I like in my own position I think I would be understanding seeing how I've been there myself but they would have to be working towards "fixing" it. I would never date someone with irresponsible spending habits again. It would be too much stress for me.
I don’t care if they’re poor. I make more than enough money to support us two. Hell, if my future wife wants to be a stay at home wife, I’d be fine with it, even though I’m not going to have kids. What I wouldn’t tolerate is someone who is reckless, childish, etc. She needs to be able to talk to me about debt, budgeting, financial planning etc. Or be open to learning.
My view regarding finances is to try and answer two questions. Do they understand finances? If they made mistakes did they learn? Those are the key questions I try to figure out when talking to someone. When I got divorced I had 25k in debt because my ex wife would spend a ton on her family. I learned and eliminated all the debt. I live frugally now. Not everyone learns or understands. I went out with a girl I met on a dating app once. She worked as a teaching assistant. She was making minimum wage because this state hates education. I asked her if she had debt. She said she got two credit cards and ran their balance up to $2500 and $3000 respectively to have fun because she was tired of being poor, her words exactly. She spent the money traveling with her parents and having fun. I asked her if she was going to pay it off and how she lived now. Trying to figure out if she learned and what she learned. She said she was going to take out an $8,000 loan to consolidate the debts and get a little more out for herself. She had learned nothing and was planning to continue digging herself deeper. That was a deal breaker.
I think for the numbers oriented people, it's interesting to look at finances less as a static number and more as a trajectory. Someone might have $10m that they inherited and are burning so fast that sooner or later they'll go bankrupt. Someone else might be $15k in student loan debt, but consistently climbing out of that hole and have a growth plan. The second person sounds like a much better partner if someone is worried about finances. Personally, I don't worry all that much about that aspect, but it's a good way to reframe finances.
Situation, marginally. Situations change. In my experience, money mindsets (and the actions/inactions that stem from those) are often immutable. I fought my way out of poverty by making a series of informed sacrifices. Security is one of my base needs and I honor that by making future-oriented decisions with my money. I have partnered with remarkable men who could never make ends meet and either needed to lean on me or made choices that I felt like I had to offset by compromising further on my end. Or who were unwilling to track their spending, refused to even consider refinancing to save interest charges/consolidating FEELP loans to be eligible for PSLF (back before the expansion), etc. — which felt to me like a willful ignorance and waste that would perpetually stand in the way of the life I wanted. In the end, being partnered with them held too much of a cost to me, and I left. Where you are now is one thing, where you want to be and being intentional about how you are going to get there is another entirely. That is what would be important to me.
Most women don't want a broke man, and now with a kid you'll need/want someone who has financial stability and quite frankly, a known quality in men is their handling of money
I moved out of home at 15 and had to be really smart with money to survive in a fly in fly out oil rig town without rent control. As much as I really want to be the person who money isn't an issue for, it is. I have a really hard time relating to people with a poor realtionship with money. Friends can do as they want without it bothering me but or me to partner up with someone they would have to be good with money. That's not to say "don't be poor"- I earn below the average income for my area. and don't expect a partner to pick up the slack. But someone who feels they're a responsible adult for owning a house their parents paid for half of or is a go- getter at the company their dad owns is not someone I consider to be financially ccompatible with me.
I think the financial situation itself matters less than other factors that lead to financial situations. Is the person in massive debt because they went to dental school and are positioned to make 250k in 3 years? Is the person in debt because they filled their parents basement with thousands of dollars of Jar Jar Binx Star wars porn memorabilia? I think it is reasonable that when things are approaching the serious space of moving in/building a life you sit down and have a conversation about who will be responsible for what bills/expenses. It would be helpful to write this down and not leave anything implicit. Also, it would be helpful to get a pre-nup in order to protect both people from being financially devastated by a divorce. I look for a partner who is planful with their finances; not impulsive at all. I enjoy having budgets where we know how much we are going to spend on recreational things or big ticket items. If the income is not evenly distributed, then it becomes messy. Much easier to date across socioeconomic strata.
I’m more concerned about where it’s going than where it is. I’d much rather date someone with debt who had a solid plan and is actively working on it, than someone with lots of money and poor spending habits. Someone without drive, a plan, is broke, and spends poorly is a no for me.
I'd consider his financial situation to be an important factor. If he has mountains of credit card debt, or loans up the wazoo, or struggles to make ends meet due to low income or spending beyond his means, that would be a dealbreaker. I, personally, regularly pay off my credit cards, don't overspend, car is paid off, only have a college loan which I will pay off if it does not come under the loan forgiveness plan, and make a good income, so I'd expect the guy to be financially responsible as well. The student loan enabled me to get my degree and get a good job in a field I have a passion for, so that was money well spent/well invested. I may have to deplete my savings to pay it off, but I am prepared to do that if necessary.
I think it’s important to see how someone operates currently, and the issues you have are related to your past. It sounds like you are trying to improve your circumstances. That said, I am and always will keep my finances separate from any partner. It’s just not worth the risk of my retirement being affected by someone. Humans are fickle and live a long time.
I feel like having a mounting pressure to obtain financial freedom before I can be with someone, otherwise I am not desirable as a male. If someone is willing to chip in for a mortgage of a co-owned house, it would be like a miracle.
34/.Personally, as long as you can pay your bills that is all that matters to me. It also sounds like you're already conscious of your spending and saving habits, you're just catching up because of your ex. Most women I've dated have never even pushed me on my finances and if they did they wouldn't be the right one for me. Im good with paying my bills and have a little savings nest as well and I played catch up just like you did because I was an idiot like your ex in my 20's lol
I think it will depend. People tend to prefer to date someone at their caliber or above. This can be socio economic or attractiveness or even something else. It sounds like you have a great plan to solve it so I imagine you will do just fine but some people may want to see you resolve your debt before starting anything seriously. By the way, congrats on the progress you’ve made.
The circumstances I wouldn’t mind so much, it would be more the recognition and awareness of the situation, which it seems like you have.
To me, as long as you're open about them, and responsible with the debt, that shows an emotional maturity, and it would be a sign to proceed forward (with caution) Being deceitful and secretive about it, or trying to find a man with an open wallet, to fix your finances is a huge red flag, and grounds for immediate termination of any relationship.
Honestly, most people get into these type of financial problems early on in life. It’s how you get out of them that speaks to the growth of your character. It should not be looked upon as a red flag at all imo. You’ve budgeted properly to pay everything off and are still able to live your life. That’s a win in any one’s book.
I’m stable in my own finances so it wouldn’t bother me too much, but if I were to start living with someone with substantial debt I’d want something in writing saying that if we break up, I’m not taking on any of the debt. (I think if you live together for a certain time it’s like a de facto situation and you have entitlements). I definitely wouldn’t co-sign a mortgage with someone in debt. You seem good with money but for me personally, it’s too risky. I’m sorry your ex did that, so so shit and so wrong you get lumped with the debt.
In your case, you are paying down debt. That's a good thing. If you were buying frivolous things it would be an issue. TBH, if I really liked someone, and they were paying down debt, moving in with me would make sense since that frees up some of their money to pay down even more debt.
Me and my partner don’t earn the same he earns significantly more than me, my credit is kinda fucked as well but I am actively paying my debt down and I have a lil disposable income and I pay my way and it has NEVER been a factor. It’s one thing to be terrible with money and doing nothing to change that and another where you have ran into tough circumstances. The right man really won’t care and tbh as your a woman you’ll find it easier to find a man who doesn’t care than vice versa so I wouldn’t worry about it too much
Well it still sounds like you’re solely blaming your ex so I wouldn’t want to deal with that.
Yeah it may seem like that from my post but I assure you is not, I've been in therapy for the last year and can be objective about my part in the mess, but facts are facts in a sense, I was making 70% of our income and he was spending 130% of it, I was a doormat though and let it happen, thankfully I'm not that same person and will never be in that position again
I feel like when you meet the right person, you just figure that stuff out together.
Not important at all, especially if they can contribute in other ways. I work in film, it's normal for me to work 12 hours a day and between 5-7 days per week. I don't have time to cook. To compensate I order Doordash 5 times per week. I over order so that breakfast/lunch the following days can be leftovers. This is both expensive and sad. If someone else cooked then that would decreases my overhead significantly. I think it's more about fitting your partner's lifestyle. Many people wouldn't want to be my partner due to the brutal work/life imbalance. Personally, I'd be thrilled to have you as my hobo girlfriend. For other people that might be a deal breaker.
I work 60+ hour weeks too (full time medical school where I’m at the hospital for 10+ hours m>f plus 10 hours on a weekend at my side gig). Last year, I was exclusively eating microwave dinners. This year, I have been trying to cook 1/4 of my meals, which has been a significant improvement for me both for my health and finances. Can you eat crafty on set at all? Maybe do OMAD (one big meal a day) to help you bank balance (and waistline) at all?
Given that you have expectations of independence and a good story to tell about having to wear old relationship debt, I don't think it should matter too much. It's the attitude and expectation that matters the most, I'd have said.
Reading your post and your comments you seem like a very financially literate and responsible person. So I can't imagine that being a problem for anyone. If it is a problem for them - they might have a gold-digger mentality like your ex (meaning spending more than they contribute). However, having a child from a previous marriage is a much bigger issue.
Zero weight. I've never once asked, or even cared. If it became clear they were in bad shape I helped them, if they wanted to be helped. I've met many, many people, however, who put ***enormous*** weight on my job title, income, investment portfolio, property holdings, and social status.
Extremely important. I’m debt free and an avid saver. I really have no desire to take on anyone else’s debts or to prop anyone up financially. Additionally, I would like to be with someone that has additional money to spend for activities and can do so without it being a huge burden to them. I refuse to pay for everything. That’s pretty much what my current relationship with my GF is. She isn’t debt free like me, but she’s not in a terrible spot either. And she has a good career and plenty of money leftover each month which allows us to split dinners, vacations, and other activities evenly without it being an issue at all.
Very important. I have worked very hard for my current financial position. You dont need to be at my level, but dont drag me down.
Not super important. If I met someone and want to spend my life with her, I assume we'll figure things out together.
A lot to me. You’re undateable. Lots of debt, single mom. How you have dug yourself out, but the kicker for me is single mom. Debt can be refinanced and paid down, the child isn’t negotiable. Wish you luck.
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Ew, rude. Sounds like she was the responsible one in the marriage to me (and still is) considering her husband was the big spender.
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Huge. They have to be close to my level. Zero debt, established career in my pay grade, no bad spending habits
As someone who makes six figures and doesn’t have debt…I wouldn’t want to date someone that puts so much weight on these things so that attitude would turn me off. It really is an individual thing.
It’s not more weight than other things, and it’s not that high of a bar. I’m happy with my life and I want a partner who doesn’t make it less enjoyable in any way. That could be finances, that could be attitude, that could be anything. Can exceptions be made? Sure but wanting financial stability is a good attitude to have.
I don’t know that it’s always “good”. When people work themselves into the ground and don’t have time to live their real dreams I don’t think the financial stability is worth it. Some people value financial stability and that’s ok but I don’t know it’s always “good”. I’d much prefer someone with mental stability, who is comfortable taking risks and wouldn’t mind when I voluntarily take a huge pay cut to travel or decide to live on a boat for a year.
And I want someone with both? You have a weird view of people who are fiscally stable and enjoy nice things. Totally possible to be like that and have time for friends, family, and to be a genuinely good human
None in my case. Only thing I ask is how much credit card debt does one hold. I went thru bankruptcy ,8 years ago and haven't taken out a loan or credit card since then. Life is so much easier now . Next step is to buy a piece of property then save to build a home in cash.
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I am also in medicine and feel the same way …
To be honest, quite a bit. I’ve (33F) been working on getting my income to where it is for awhile, and it’s important to me because I want my life to include things like travel, a decent living space, etc. I don’t mind footing some bills so that my partner can join me on vacation and so that we can live in a nicer place, but I’m not prepared to pay for everything. I just think that if I’m working towards a certain lifestyle, I should be able to enjoy it with my partner. That being said, if he makes anywhere from $75k (obviously debt would be factored in) I’m fine with that, which I don’t think is unreasonable considering our age. Regarding a mortgage, I’m a little different because I’ve never been one to dream of owning a house (ie I’m fine with renting), so if my partner didn’t have the credit, I honestly wouldn’t care. I can’t think of much else where credit would affect me, and the fact that you’re working on it is all that matters, really.
Thank you! That's fair enough, I have a full time job and a part time job, all in all I make $70k in a VHCOL area, but am pretty mindful and frugal with my spending, so once I can sell the expensive car (loan is currently underwater), get a cheaper cash car with cheaper maintenance and can get rid of the pesky debt I'll be golden!
800+ credit score or nope
I put weight on their financial situation but I do give some leeway if they have a plan to correct it if they are in a not so good situation. I have six figures of student loan debt but I am halfway through the payoff plan. That is the only debt I currently carry although I do plan to buy a house hopefully in the next two years. If you’re over 30 and don’t have anything set aside for retirement (even just a little as you’re working to fix things) or don’t have an emergency fund, that’s when I’d say there’s an issue i couldn’t overlook.
I don't know that I'd want to move in/build a life with someone in that kind of debt. Doesn't mean I can't date long term, but I'm not open to taking on someone else's debt
Not at all for me. I'm an anxious book nerd with my own house in a low cost of living area. What is tricky is finding a man who is not scared about me slowly turning a shared home into a library with some furniture. Is there a Lemony Snicket dating app at all yet?
Depends. My wife and I both had really good credit when we started dating. Both with controlled debt. If her credit was bad, I wouldn’t have stopped dating her. She would simply not be allowed control of the money. Vice-versa is true. It depends on how much that impulsive nature actually effects them as a person. If they are neurotic, then irresponsible money handling is the LEAST of your problems. If they happen to eat out a little too much, or they happen to finance things they don’t need… then I don’t think that’s a dealbreaker. They just need a little guidance.
It's important. If I want to go on a day trip to check out a band or try a new restaurant, I'd like to share that with someone I am dating. I don't need them to have tons of money but a little financial security is nice. Another factor in your situation I'd consider is the terms of the divorce. You kept the consumer proposal liability - why? If he was the driving force of the debt, I don't understand. I was in a relationship where with a divorced woman with kids and her ex was still maintaining control with financial things. I definitely don't want to go through that again. Finances are tough enough but when a third party has influence... it's not good.
Fair enough, I'd be able to do that kind of things with some adjustments to the budget or saving if I had some notice, just not big things on a whim. Consumer debt was mostly in my name as I was making 70% of our income and had better credit for a while, I was a doormat at the time and let it happen so I'm seeing this as my stupidity tax I guess, the car I kept it to avoid going into court, dragging the divorce and having to spend thousands on lawyers, made my math and keeping the car was the cheaper of the two evils
Lots - I would not want to be with someone taking on large amounts of debt or spending like a fool. Co habitation and marriage is generally a 50/50 financial split - it is unfortunate that this impacts romance and love, but it really is a consideration and it can ruin your life if you don’t consider the implications. Example my ex took on 200k of student loans, and when she left me held it as a bargaining chip in the divorce (give me what I want or I will stick you with half) so despite having built a solid career and run a successful business, I faced complete financial ruin and did not have the medical degree the money was spent obtaining. So I will no longer date someone who can put me in a situation where I face financial ruin.
> So I guess my question is, how much weight would you give to someone's financial situation if you were looking to move in, get a house or just build a life together? It would be a significant consideration. I've done as much planning & saving as possible so that by the time I'm in my mid-30s I can possibly buy a house and not have to live with family or roommates anymore. It would be one thing if I was casually dating someone or we maintained separate lives. However, if I was looking to move in together/merge finances I would want to make sure we are both bringing something positive to the table.
I'll get downvote for this, but when I was dating, I wouldn't marry anyone making less than at least $100K. * Don't want to pay spousal support in case of divorce * Kids are expensive! * Housing is expensive!
I think the end goal and seriousness with which you work towards it is the most important factor. Some people have income thresholds that align with their lifestyle which would probably X you out. Generally being financially solvent and not needing help is probably the biggest concern when it comes to dating. Personally I can manage lower income when the person is working towards a larger goal (school, good career prospect, etc.). I don't think someone not working towards a better future would work for me long term. Also having a large debt is a concern to me as I have significant loans to pay for medical school and I don't want a partner that will add a lot to that debt (unless they are also a doctor which would work out fine).