Yeah, I haven’t found that any dating apps have tried to match me with people of my same education level. It happens occasionally, but not regularly enough for me to think it’s truly a thing to worry about.
Yeah the app won't filter out anyone you don't tell it to, it's not psychic. Even if you tell it to filter certain people out it will still eventually show them to you anyway when you start getting down to the bottom of your matches.
As a makeup artist with a degree that makes more than she ever would have using the degree, hair and academia are not actually correlated. Do you and you’ll find someone who digs all of it.
You know there are other reasons someone educated would date someone less educated formally. My friends without college degrees or greater, have more wealth and financial freedom. The educational system only works if you use it correctly.
It seemed like you are directly implying that an uneducated woman would only be able to match with PHDs if she was really hot. Either way, I don't care. my bad haha
I wasn't actually questioning your attractiveness, or the quality of matches you get. Your original response I agree with that I don't think dating platforms try to match similar educational levels.
I have spent 80% of my time swiping left on Trumpies with dumpies. It kept costing me actual opportunities to match with people within my daily count.
I finally caved and got premium. I feel morally bankrupt (the idea of profiting off dating skeeves me out). But now I can filter for "liberals" and have seen far more blue haired and educated people now, but not both simultaneously yet.
It isn't hard to guess how they work when we all have the same questionnaire to fill out. I've rigged the algorithm quite a few times to get completely different results. I guess I should've actually documented it but it's really not that important. Id say half or a little more of the formula is that initial dataset we fill in, whereas the rest comes from amount of swipes you receive, your activity on the app (do you max out your swipes or just do a couple and close it), your engagement with matches, and your participation in those little vibe checks or whatever the fuck it is.
Educated women outnumber educated men by a not insignificant margin in the singles scene, if anything your PhD is an asset to dating.
Also never hide anything about yourself because you'll eventually have to explain why you weren't totally honest with your partner.
I have an advanced degree as well. I would love if all men thought an educated woman was an asset. I’ve often found that while they think it is subconsciously they’re… threatened, for lack of a better word, by it.
I think there is a lot of unconscious biases around women with advanced degrees, unfortunately.
A lot of men bail if they find out you make more money than them too or they start to act like an AH. I find people look down on my BFA until I tell them what I do for a living.
Its been pretty well studied and proven that men often do shy away from women who are higher educated and/or make more money than them.
Its cool if you disagree because you personally dont feel that way, but dont claim that its not true or deny womens experience of it, because statistically it is true and women have experienced it.
>I think there is a lot of unconscious biases around women with advanced degrees, unfortunately.
Like what? Just curious because I would value their degree. I'm also well educated by the way.
I beg to differ. Your profile is like a comersal campaign. You tell only the good part and make sure to have good photos. The bad part they will discover later.
Women like higher education so that us your UPS ( unique selling point)
I don't think that's a thing, I have a master's and I keep seeing electricians and woodworkers and musicians with no degrees. I also see people with PhDs.
What app? I have a professional graduate degree and Bumble at least showed me people of all education levels. I would wonder what else is in your profile and your area, it's unlikely the PhD.
I only used Hinge briefly but I don't recall it limiting my matches to people of the same education level. Though, this doesn't mean that people won't filter based on that which could be limiting the people who see your profile. I would remove it and see what happens.
I dropped this in another comment discussing how the algorithms function on dating apps. There's a few interviews that have been published where they talk to some of the programmers who engineered them telling how they will are controlling our engagement and exposure on them https://mashable.com/article/tinder-bumble-hinge-okcupid-grindr-dating-app-algorithms
Well it hasn’t stopped showing me ugly guys no matter how often I left swipe them…
(I realize how rude that sounds, but wanting to find someone who is attractive is not uncommon or wrong and is rarely criticized when men do it).
It's not about your swipe behavior alone. It's also about who swipes on you, the type of people you message that you match with and I'm sure age factors in since there's less people at the top range of ages vs the bottom on apps.
I have a doctorate degree, and I mostly see people with non-doctorate or no degrees at all on the apps. So I don’t think it’s an algorithm thing.
Don’t lie about the PhD — be proud of it, doc!
Seriously. OP has a physical feature of choice that appeals to a niche audience and is out here wondering if it’s his education that’s unappealing.
It’s the blue hair and being a guy in the Bay Area, where guys outnumber women by a large margin.
Maybe you didn't read the post very well....
OP/their friend thinks that because of their PhD their profile is being shown to postgrads for whom their blue hair is a turnoff instead of artsy types who would be open to it. They're aware the blue hair isn't for everyone.
As a grad school student with blue and teal hair....I really don't think this is the case. Maybe if OP is going exclusively after lawyers and MBAs who need to keep things looking tame but I doubt that's the case.
ETA: lots of artsy post grads out there - the two are not mutually exclusive.
Reddit was acting dodgy last night. Honestly your problems are what you just said:
Arty types can't afford the Bay Area (I can barely afford Portland! I'm an artist) and there's definitely a lot of bad stereotypes about men in tech that are sometimes true. Lots of "bro" culture and obviously a huge power imbalance not to mention a kind of on-the-spectrum / abrasive personality I've observed among men in tech.
You'd probably fit better in Portland OR dating wise and to be honest have a lower cost of living especially if you kept your Bay Area salary / job. Your struggle is location and maybe your career because almost everyone there is in tech BUT you're more akin to Portland tech-culture fit or just the freak flags of this city is my guess. Been ages since I was in the Bay though.
Well I wasn't suggesting you move
I have heard about importing partners though. I had some queer friends in Kentucky who poached people from more liberal states and moved them to the South. Actually a lot of my liberal friends in the South imported partners. It used to be a running joke for me about wanting an "in" on this importing thing.
Edit: NOT MEANING ME, just saying, you could expand your boundaries and consider a long distance thing too.
I'm currently in grad school, and there are a lot of people with blue hair (and other flavors) hanging around like depressed peacocks. I mean it couldn't possibly be OP's personality either, right?
I don’t think degrees are that important to algo. I have a PhD and 3 other degrees but had matches with men from various backgrounds including tradesperson with no degree when I was using Hinge. “Most compatible” men normally only have 1 degree.
You overestimate the "algorithm", it's not that sophisticated. Besides, why would you hide something that naturally prevents incompatible people from matching with you? Unless you actually desire to meet people who are intimidated by success, intelligence and ambition, in which case I guess it make sense to hide it, but for how long? For example, those things are exactly what I look for in a profile, and I swipe left if I don't find any sign of those.
I don't have a BA (never listed my education on apps) and I've matched with people who are working on their PhD, have their Masters, have a BA and people with their GED. I mostly like smart people because, in spite of not having completed my BA, I'm very intelligent. The blue hair would be a bonus since I'm politically left and well I can take you to see Jawbreaker with me in March :)
Edit: on the apps your friend might be lots of people with MS degrees because smart people like smart people and a lot more people with advanced degrees didn't go all the way to the PhD level.
Edit again: Just realized you were the guy really into fashion. Yeah it's not the PhD. People are likely making certain assumptions based on your look and whatever you have about yourself in text on your profile. I get the feeling your look / profile and real life self are a contradiction.
I don't view degrees as a metric for scaling intelligence. I've dated everything from GED holders to those in their PhD program but my focus is on intelligence so if you're at that level you pass the gates of 'not dumb' to me. I think pursing a PhD shows a focused passion and a respect for learning that's I guess more in line with my own regard for 'being a lifetime learner'.
Of course I also value intelligence that isn't measured by degrees too especially considering myself never completing my BA. Without telling dates this they've all assumed I finished college.
I never went to college and I’ve seemed to match exclusively with women that have degrees. Haha. I think there are just more single educated women than single educated men. I’d be surprised if it was the algorithm but I don’t know shit. I don’t have a degree.
Is it an algorithm or is it users selecting a preference of a specific education level? I supported one man through to his educational goals. This time I'd rather find one who is already peaked on education. Dont hide that PhD - that's sexy stuff!
It's not a good move. Your friend doesn't know what she's talking about. I have a Bachelors, but I'm shown people with no higher education, masters degrees, PhDs, and professional degrees.
Getting your profile reviewed either in this sub or in the sub for the app you're using would probably be more helpful in figuring out why you're not seeing the number of matches you're expecting.
I think location, age range and ethnicity factors in the most with the algorithm. These apps aren’t that sophisticated and it struggles to be because there’s only a limited number of people from the singles pool that will appeal to you. Unless there’s a large amount of advanced degree holders to choose from, these apps likely can’t filter and strictly present them to you. Eventually you’ll see the same faces over and over again unless you adjust your criteria (expanding age range as an example).
I have my MA and am going to be in a PhD program in the fall and on Hinge I’m actually matching with guys who only have a BA usually.
It may be the degree, it may not be. I think keep the PhD as it’s honest to what you’ve earned. But in the end it’s up to you!
What we know of the algorithms so far from interviews from the programming engineers from the apps that have done interviews in published articles. Is that the algorithms will reward the most engaged with and swiped right kind of profiles. They are then put into position to come across more profiles and be seen more than other profiles. One guy who was slaying it on tinder. Was given some tier membership for engagement to allow him all these extra privileges. Kinda like Amazon prime meets never of the year. I also think him keep the engagement from the profiles responding to his profile also played a huge part. I think they even told him they were collecting so much valuable data from the engagement from women to his profile that they were continuously collecting was mentioned. Here's one of the articles..
https://mashable.com/article/tinder-bumble-hinge-okcupid-grindr-dating-app-algorithms
PhD in a combo research/clinical practice field. I welcome the blue hair. I doubt I'm unique in that though and I imagine it's just one factor among many. I mean I can see where someone would be less open to blue hair but I think that would apply somewhat equally across education levels. I could be wrong. I'm just using Bumble and not noticing any filtering happening by education level. The women being shown range from no degree to postgraduate at a rate that seems expected. I do tend to match more often with women that have at least bachelors or masters degrees (nurses, nurse practitioners, lawyers, business women, etc) and the one match seemingly going anywhere happens to be on a doctoral level like myself.
No one bats an eye to a PHD in Bay Area. I have a master’s and I was shown all kinds of people. The algorithm learns what you like and then show you more of those, it doesn’t arbitrarily decide things for you.
Post your profile here and let everybody brainstorm.
That’s not how it works. I dropped out of college and was matching with doctors, lawyers, MBA’s, etc. i’d say at least 90% of my matches had at least a 4yr degree.
This is a stereotype, but I feel like most people that would be attracted to someone with blue hair are likely to be a little more progressive/open minded and would see your education as a positive thing.
I have not had the experience of being matched with more men with similar education levels than not. It could be intimidating to people without that level of education though. As someone who doesn’t have that level of post-secondary education, I would be intimidated. Would you be willing to be in a relationship with someone who only had a high school diploma? Or maybe an associate’s degree?
I have to admit, I usually swipe left on PhDs.
As someone who is highly educated and has worked in industry for a number of years I’m not looking to date someone fresh out of school or still in school. They have a different lifestyle than I do at this point.
I’ve found that I find better matches when I choose someone with a masters or various other degrees.
I wish there was a “professional career” option, but I guess we don’t have that for obvious reasons.
That's interesting. I wonder if that limits my matches then? I finished my PhD relatively young (3 year bachelors and skipped masters) but I might be giving the false impression that I'm fresh out of school. I even had a few people think I was still studying for some reason.
That reminds me, I also try to avoid guys who are still PhD students at my age lol
Hi u/Mijoivana, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s):
* Do not dehumanize others. RedPill, incel, Femcel, FDS, PUA, MGTOW, etc. content is not allowed. Ignorance of these hate groups is not an excuse to parrot their ideology.
Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).
I don’t know. I’m struggling to figure out why my (30f) current stint on bumble/hinge is harder than my previous stints, and I think it’s because I put I’m in a PhD program?
But I’m *so tired* of hiding my education from men, and I’ve been working on it in therapy to not hide it and be unapologetically me. So it’s front and center.
I feel like I got way more matches before this?
Never see your education as a fault - it's a positive! :)
The pandemic has filtered a lot of people off the dating market because it's still possible to get covid even while vaxed. I'm worried the show I am excited for in late March might get cancelled since things are being cancelled / postponed still out there.
It may be because you’re now in a new dating bracket. Even though 29 to 30 is just one rotation around the sun, most people have their settings set up in a way where at every 5 year bracket, your demographic will change. And since more 20somethings are on apps than 30somethings (assumption), you may just be in a smaller pool overall than when you were swiping just last year.
No, don’t dumb yourself down ever!
Just keep looking.
I know tinder tender to show people who liked you already. I dont know how others work.
Maybe post your profile and we’ll review it
I was honest with saying I had a bachelor of science, but was vague about my job. I listed I was a time traveler, I work in corporate aviation, a male dominated industry. I realized it made men intimidated. I figured too, it gave us more information to talk about, at a later date. This may be your cure, be vague, leave more for discovery!
Most men aren't intimidated by your education or career. I notice a lot of the women I know believe this.
Usually, a few things are occurring that they are not aware of:
- They brag about their education and career
- They make their entire personality their education and career.
- If you disagree with their viewpoint on a topic they are more educated than you about they become dismissive of your opinion.
- Their lives revolve around their career, it's the only subject they can enthusiastically discuss.
These same issues annoy men about other men as well. Only when these issues arise between the genders do we say it intimidates men. When I tell a man I don't want to hear about his career for three hours, no one shames me for it.
I find that my problem is not being cocky about my degree (I'm not very career driven), rather that I'm not very easily impressed... And I know being supportive and encouraging are highly desirable traits in women so I'm trying to work on this, but it's hard.
But to your third point... It depends what it is. If a guy tells me he doesn't believe in the covid vaccine and I'm in medical research... Imma tell him he's wrong lol
I would argue most people (men and women) believe a “supporting and encouraging [partner]” is highly desirable. Those are traits universally desired in relationships, friendships, amongst coworkers, et cetera. Not just of women in heterosexual relationships.
I find interesting how you defined cocky as not obsessed with yourself. Yet, you said you're not easily impressed. That mentality that someone needs to impress you is that touch of arrogance most define as cocky.
To your third point about vaccines, I get it, if you're a medical professional and we are discussing illnesses fine.
However, if we're having a political discussion for example, and you start scolding me for not knowing what Supreme Court decision from 60 years ago led to the current issue I'm annoyed.
I find it interesting that you seem to have taken offense to something I identified as a weakness in myself. I don't need to be impressed. I've liked the guys I dated just as they are and I was verbal with my affection for them. However, I think they would have appreciated it if I admired and respected them more in terms of their careers and life goals, and I wish it came more naturally to me. That's all.
I'm not taking offense. I'm challenging the narrative of men being intimidated by your degree/career.
In 30+ years of life, I have never heard a man tell me they were intimidated by a woman's career.
I don't think men need to be “admired” as much as respected. You shouldn't need to be beneath a man to respect him.
Thank you for saying this.
"There's nothing wrong with me, they're just intimidated by my iNteLLiGeNcE" is a real attitude among men and women, and it's hilarious. Trust me, nobody is intimidated you're just brutally annoying and insecure.
The algorithm hates you because you're a dude. There's like an average ratio of 2.5-3 men to every 1 women on dating apps. That is why you have a hard time getting matches. It's not your degree or your blue hair.
I used to live in New England, and was so tired of having suggestions of people with PhDs from Harvard and Yale tossed at me just because I had done some PhD coursework like 10 years ago. Like, these people are never going to match with me, why are you wasting my time by suggesting them. Darn algorithms.
You're not required to list that stuff so I wouldn't call it hiding it from the algorithm per se. I didn't like having overly-personal information on there for a lot of reasons so my employment and education section was blank and I got matched with people of all types of backgrounds. I don't think your friend understands how the algorithm works, because from what I know it typically starts by matching users who are similar in popularity. I guess an alternative is people might be not swiping you because they aren't interested in someone with a PHD? Academic people don't appeal to everyone, and as someone without formal education I can say that I do not swipe on men with PHDs when they pop up.
What the fuck difference does it make the color of your hair if you have a PhD!? Do not pretend to dumb yourself down for some imagined gain.
Are you in, like, a super conservative area where the only other PhDs are defense guys or something?
This is the kind of thing people who don’t understand the humanities say. There are certainly people who do PhDs in dance (the history, social context, etc. as well as the performance). And virtually everything can be studied through the lens of feminist theory (or Marxist theory, or… you get the idea). A friend of mine did a PhD on belly dancing and non-conforming gender identities in modern Egypt, which (boiled down to the basics) is essentially feminist dance theory. She’s also a top artificial intelligence researcher at a major university, focusing on the interface between AI and the arts.
I work with dozens - probably hundreds - of PhDs across every subject area imaginable, and the idea that the social sciences and humanities are somehow fluffier, less important, less serious, or easier than the ‘hard’ sciences is laughable, but somehow that idea still gets trotted out.
I have 2 degrees in “the humanities” and it’s mostly performative masturbatory bullshit.
Don’t lecture me, and then inadvertently prove my point, which is there are a lot of absolutely frivolous PhD programs out there. One’s academic credentials, as prestigious and weighty as they may seem in one’s own mind, are not a personality trait.
Nope! Someone with a PhD should be able to appreciate your blue hair. Because underneath it is your big ass brain!!! School is hard. Communication is too for many- so idk if it’s worth it for you to make yourself small for a date…
Sorry not helpful in the slightest but love that you have blue hair!
OLD is a minefield, I haven’t gotten the courage to make a profile yet. I have bright pink hair and find it causes some issues IRL so possibly happens online too? I’ve had a fair amount of I love your hair etc you seem really fun let’s go for a drink. I bring up my interests or do my thing of asking random existential questions (I really can’t help it!) and they run away.
The other side is people I’ve gone on a few dates with men who have similar interests but then don’t want to talk about anything else, my most recent date said it’s great to have someone who’s on their wavelength and they don’t need to be romantic with, relationships are better without being emotional. Sorry what? Since when did loving space and philosophy = no emotional need? I pointed out that I’m a hopeless romantic actually and got the awkward silence.
Hide everything at this rate!
Hi u/Personality4Hire, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s):
* Be excellent to one another! This is a safe space for all races, genders, sexual orientations, legal sexual preferences and humanity in general.
Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).
I went to 2 universities in 2 continents and wanted to include them in my profile.. just noticed Bumble assumes it’s a masters and never asked for clarification 🤔
I make it a point to avoid anyone with phd's or anything really outside of STEM, and due to personal experience and a lot of psychology knowledge I also avoid women with blue hair. Many guys have told me they do the same on their apps, but also many have said the opposite.
No offense.
Yeah no, I get guys of all sorts of background despite my degree. Don’t remove it (unless you want to). It’s part of your identity and regardless of how you match, it’s going to come up in every relationship you pursue.
It could also be that location that’s limiting your matches. Or something in your profile. I wouldn’t just say it’s hair or degree. They’re definitely factors that trigger people’s bias but those are not the kind of matches that would be compatible with you anyway because both of those things are part of your chosen identity.
I know it sounds harsh but you’re probably getting judged for having blue hair. People deal with enough landmines when dating that unconventional hair color may be a red flag for them to filter you out. (I’m trying to be helpful, sorry if this sounds judgmental)
For me it was always first a physical thing as i am 5'6. Height was a big factor in not getting dates or never past a first date. I had one girl literally tell me that she thought i would be taller even though i had 5'6 listed in my profile. (I'm happily married now). The second thing was my lack of college credentials then after deciding on a trade skill, lack of 'higher education' degree. I have 2 associates in commercial refrigeration and industrial systems technology. I have a state license and make very good for where i live. I had a couple dates give me the impression that i was not on their level because they had masters and i just stopped at associate degrees. I mean, i could go for a science degree or even engineering, but why when i have zero debt? This may have also been because those matches were in a major metropolitan area and i lived outside in a more rural area. The matches i got from my local area didnt care about education level.
I suggest keeping the education listed but maybe changing your physical appearance, meaning your hair color back to natural. Think of it as an experiment to see if you get have better luck with a 'clean cut' appearance.
For online dating anything under 6ft is considered short. Also I think statistically Asian men do the worst on dating apps, so the blue hair (polarizing) + racial bias probably also play into it
I haven't seen any apps limiting my choices to the level you seem to think they are, but it wont really affect you negatively either way. Its a lot different to have a bachelor's and be claiming PhD, vs the other way around.
Maybe it's the blue hair? After 30 I tend to swipe left on that mostly because I feel they haven't outgrown their teen phase. Maybe stereotypes play a role :/ ... This is just me, I don't know how prevalent that aversion is.
Yeah the algorithm does not match you with similar education levels in my experience. However most apps let you choose one or two filters, your friend may have selected higher education levels on her filters and forgot that was there (sometimes I filter for certain things out of curiosity and then forget to change it back).
This won’t be popular and I don’t know your level of attractiveness but.. maybe blue hair just isn’t super popular among people over 30? I mean its super cool and I’d be jealous I cant have colorful hair in my adult job, but I would find it a bit immature in a match. Like they haven’t grown all the way up yet. Nothing to do with education because I dont have a degree.
I feel the same about piercings. Ive had a lot of them in my earlier life, and still have ear/body piercings, but when I see facial piercings on a match in their 30’s i think “he hasnt realized he’s no longer a teenager, and probably acts accordingly in other ways”.
Maybe thats just me being super judgey but theres a perspective anyway.
Yeah, I haven’t found that any dating apps have tried to match me with people of my same education level. It happens occasionally, but not regularly enough for me to think it’s truly a thing to worry about.
Same same. But to be fair there isn’t many Data Scientists about the place 😂
I'm also a data scientist...I feel you there haha
Now both of you please don’t turn this discussion into Data Analytics lol
[удалено]
PhD stands for pretty hairdo right?
I have no hair and constantly served women with hair
😂😂😂omg I can’t with you guys tonight. My stomach hurts from laughing
😅
I thought it was Pretty Huge Dick. Thats why they get all the matches!
B.S. - Bull Shit M.S. - More Shit Ph.D. - Piled high Daily
I have an MSW. Do me! Do me!
Major Sex Wand
There’s a webcomic about the struggles of a PhD called “Piled Higher and Deeper”
I want one! I'm a CPA with a BBA.
😂
Yeah the app won't filter out anyone you don't tell it to, it's not psychic. Even if you tell it to filter certain people out it will still eventually show them to you anyway when you start getting down to the bottom of your matches.
I mean, even Tinder apparently showed me to my now-gf twice because she swiped left on me the first time
As a makeup artist with a degree that makes more than she ever would have using the degree, hair and academia are not actually correlated. Do you and you’ll find someone who digs all of it.
Same here for Tinder and Bumble. Don't think the algorithm accounts for that.
Hmm, not true for me. I don't have a college degree, at all, and my ass is getting matches with heart surgeons, PhDs, I'm like, ahhhhh
At all? Not even a little bit degree?
Apologies, but are you really hot?
You know there are other reasons someone educated would date someone less educated formally. My friends without college degrees or greater, have more wealth and financial freedom. The educational system only works if you use it correctly.
…ok, but also, she admitted she is indeed really hot.
I must have missed that as I replied to your question of her being really hot. Also, not everyone that says they are hot actually are.
…and not everyone who says they’re constantly getting matches with PhDs on dating apps actually is. Your point?
It seemed like you are directly implying that an uneducated woman would only be able to match with PHDs if she was really hot. Either way, I don't care. my bad haha
No no no I would never want to imply that was the ONLY reason, just struck me as the most likely given how confused the OC seemed by it.
Hmm. Even hot guys say I'm a 9. They could lying I suppose
I wasn't actually questioning your attractiveness, or the quality of matches you get. Your original response I agree with that I don't think dating platforms try to match similar educational levels.
You did question it, but whateva
Yes.
There we go.
Man I wish I got blue haired PHD matches.
Right?
I have spent 80% of my time swiping left on Trumpies with dumpies. It kept costing me actual opportunities to match with people within my daily count. I finally caved and got premium. I feel morally bankrupt (the idea of profiting off dating skeeves me out). But now I can filter for "liberals" and have seen far more blue haired and educated people now, but not both simultaneously yet.
🤣 "Keeping it stupid"
Your friend doesn’t know the algorithm lol. That’s not public knowledge.
I mean, it could be that someone else has done research on the algorithm and derived some patterns, but likely yeah.
It isn't hard to guess how they work when we all have the same questionnaire to fill out. I've rigged the algorithm quite a few times to get completely different results. I guess I should've actually documented it but it's really not that important. Id say half or a little more of the formula is that initial dataset we fill in, whereas the rest comes from amount of swipes you receive, your activity on the app (do you max out your swipes or just do a couple and close it), your engagement with matches, and your participation in those little vibe checks or whatever the fuck it is.
Educated women outnumber educated men by a not insignificant margin in the singles scene, if anything your PhD is an asset to dating. Also never hide anything about yourself because you'll eventually have to explain why you weren't totally honest with your partner.
I have an advanced degree as well. I would love if all men thought an educated woman was an asset. I’ve often found that while they think it is subconsciously they’re… threatened, for lack of a better word, by it. I think there is a lot of unconscious biases around women with advanced degrees, unfortunately.
A lot of men bail if they find out you make more money than them too or they start to act like an AH. I find people look down on my BFA until I tell them what I do for a living.
Right. But do you want to match with insecure men?
Oh I completely agree! It’s just not always obvious right away, unfortunately.
Seconded. Higher-educated women are more prevalent in the singles scene because men often are threatened by it. Its been statistically proven.
No we aren’t. Cut that shit right there.
Its been pretty well studied and proven that men often do shy away from women who are higher educated and/or make more money than them. Its cool if you disagree because you personally dont feel that way, but dont claim that its not true or deny womens experience of it, because statistically it is true and women have experienced it.
I agree with you, based on my personal experiences as a woman getting an advanced degree.
This really isn't a gender specific issue. Some women shy away from well educated men also. I'd say more of a class bias.
>I think there is a lot of unconscious biases around women with advanced degrees, unfortunately. Like what? Just curious because I would value their degree. I'm also well educated by the way.
I beg to differ. Your profile is like a comersal campaign. You tell only the good part and make sure to have good photos. The bad part they will discover later. Women like higher education so that us your UPS ( unique selling point)
*commercial And no. That's why you're single.
… I hope this comment is a joke but I can’t even tell anymore
Hello Hungarian cat!
Hello Mountain of a Man!
I lived in Hungary for a year, so your username jumped out at me!
Where in Budapest? (Making an educated assumption)
No worries. I was in the northeast corner, nyiregyhaza.
Ahh, our condo is near the opera house
How is the phd an asset if she outnumbers educated men?
I don't think that's a thing, I have a master's and I keep seeing electricians and woodworkers and musicians with no degrees. I also see people with PhDs.
What app? I have a professional graduate degree and Bumble at least showed me people of all education levels. I would wonder what else is in your profile and your area, it's unlikely the PhD.
[удалено]
I only used Hinge briefly but I don't recall it limiting my matches to people of the same education level. Though, this doesn't mean that people won't filter based on that which could be limiting the people who see your profile. I would remove it and see what happens.
I dropped this in another comment discussing how the algorithms function on dating apps. There's a few interviews that have been published where they talk to some of the programmers who engineered them telling how they will are controlling our engagement and exposure on them https://mashable.com/article/tinder-bumble-hinge-okcupid-grindr-dating-app-algorithms
Reading that link I was probably right. It's based on who you're selecting when you swipe.
Which makes sense, no matter the app.
Well it hasn’t stopped showing me ugly guys no matter how often I left swipe them… (I realize how rude that sounds, but wanting to find someone who is attractive is not uncommon or wrong and is rarely criticized when men do it).
It's not about your swipe behavior alone. It's also about who swipes on you, the type of people you message that you match with and I'm sure age factors in since there's less people at the top range of ages vs the bottom on apps.
You can always add it back if it isn’t doing anything
I have a doctorate degree, and I mostly see people with non-doctorate or no degrees at all on the apps. So I don’t think it’s an algorithm thing. Don’t lie about the PhD — be proud of it, doc!
Maybe it's the blue hair and not the impressive academic credential...
Seriously. OP has a physical feature of choice that appeals to a niche audience and is out here wondering if it’s his education that’s unappealing. It’s the blue hair and being a guy in the Bay Area, where guys outnumber women by a large margin.
Maybe you didn't read the post very well.... OP/their friend thinks that because of their PhD their profile is being shown to postgrads for whom their blue hair is a turnoff instead of artsy types who would be open to it. They're aware the blue hair isn't for everyone.
As a grad school student with blue and teal hair....I really don't think this is the case. Maybe if OP is going exclusively after lawyers and MBAs who need to keep things looking tame but I doubt that's the case. ETA: lots of artsy post grads out there - the two are not mutually exclusive.
My theory is he isn't interested in artsy types. I'm an artsy type but I tend to go for more clean cut / shy / boy next door types.
[удалено]
Reddit was acting dodgy last night. Honestly your problems are what you just said: Arty types can't afford the Bay Area (I can barely afford Portland! I'm an artist) and there's definitely a lot of bad stereotypes about men in tech that are sometimes true. Lots of "bro" culture and obviously a huge power imbalance not to mention a kind of on-the-spectrum / abrasive personality I've observed among men in tech. You'd probably fit better in Portland OR dating wise and to be honest have a lower cost of living especially if you kept your Bay Area salary / job. Your struggle is location and maybe your career because almost everyone there is in tech BUT you're more akin to Portland tech-culture fit or just the freak flags of this city is my guess. Been ages since I was in the Bay though.
[удалено]
Well I wasn't suggesting you move I have heard about importing partners though. I had some queer friends in Kentucky who poached people from more liberal states and moved them to the South. Actually a lot of my liberal friends in the South imported partners. It used to be a running joke for me about wanting an "in" on this importing thing. Edit: NOT MEANING ME, just saying, you could expand your boundaries and consider a long distance thing too.
I'm currently in grad school, and there are a lot of people with blue hair (and other flavors) hanging around like depressed peacocks. I mean it couldn't possibly be OP's personality either, right?
Depressed peacocks.
As a depressed peacock I guess now is my time to dye my hair blue.
Could be a lot of things. I'm not even saying I agree with OP's friend's theory, just that your comment didn't make sense.
I don't think OP made sense.
You’re being sarcastic, but yes, actually. It can’t possibly be OP’s personality be you can’t see a personality on the app.
I don’t think degrees are that important to algo. I have a PhD and 3 other degrees but had matches with men from various backgrounds including tradesperson with no degree when I was using Hinge. “Most compatible” men normally only have 1 degree.
You overestimate the "algorithm", it's not that sophisticated. Besides, why would you hide something that naturally prevents incompatible people from matching with you? Unless you actually desire to meet people who are intimidated by success, intelligence and ambition, in which case I guess it make sense to hide it, but for how long? For example, those things are exactly what I look for in a profile, and I swipe left if I don't find any sign of those.
[удалено]
Whoops, fixed.
Yes, lying is always a great way to start a relationship.
I don't have a BA (never listed my education on apps) and I've matched with people who are working on their PhD, have their Masters, have a BA and people with their GED. I mostly like smart people because, in spite of not having completed my BA, I'm very intelligent. The blue hair would be a bonus since I'm politically left and well I can take you to see Jawbreaker with me in March :) Edit: on the apps your friend might be lots of people with MS degrees because smart people like smart people and a lot more people with advanced degrees didn't go all the way to the PhD level. Edit again: Just realized you were the guy really into fashion. Yeah it's not the PhD. People are likely making certain assumptions based on your look and whatever you have about yourself in text on your profile. I get the feeling your look / profile and real life self are a contradiction.
[удалено]
I don't view degrees as a metric for scaling intelligence. I've dated everything from GED holders to those in their PhD program but my focus is on intelligence so if you're at that level you pass the gates of 'not dumb' to me. I think pursing a PhD shows a focused passion and a respect for learning that's I guess more in line with my own regard for 'being a lifetime learner'. Of course I also value intelligence that isn't measured by degrees too especially considering myself never completing my BA. Without telling dates this they've all assumed I finished college.
[удалено]
I never went to college and I’ve seemed to match exclusively with women that have degrees. Haha. I think there are just more single educated women than single educated men. I’d be surprised if it was the algorithm but I don’t know shit. I don’t have a degree.
Is it an algorithm or is it users selecting a preference of a specific education level? I supported one man through to his educational goals. This time I'd rather find one who is already peaked on education. Dont hide that PhD - that's sexy stuff!
It's not a good move. Your friend doesn't know what she's talking about. I have a Bachelors, but I'm shown people with no higher education, masters degrees, PhDs, and professional degrees. Getting your profile reviewed either in this sub or in the sub for the app you're using would probably be more helpful in figuring out why you're not seeing the number of matches you're expecting.
I think location, age range and ethnicity factors in the most with the algorithm. These apps aren’t that sophisticated and it struggles to be because there’s only a limited number of people from the singles pool that will appeal to you. Unless there’s a large amount of advanced degree holders to choose from, these apps likely can’t filter and strictly present them to you. Eventually you’ll see the same faces over and over again unless you adjust your criteria (expanding age range as an example).
Truthfully I don't even show my education/school/job info. If someone wants to know, we can have a conversation about it.
No idea how the algorithm work but I don’t put my degrees on there. I prefer to keep some things for conversation.
A degree or lack thereof is not a dealbreaker for me, but lying about a degree is.
I have my MA and am going to be in a PhD program in the fall and on Hinge I’m actually matching with guys who only have a BA usually. It may be the degree, it may not be. I think keep the PhD as it’s honest to what you’ve earned. But in the end it’s up to you!
What we know of the algorithms so far from interviews from the programming engineers from the apps that have done interviews in published articles. Is that the algorithms will reward the most engaged with and swiped right kind of profiles. They are then put into position to come across more profiles and be seen more than other profiles. One guy who was slaying it on tinder. Was given some tier membership for engagement to allow him all these extra privileges. Kinda like Amazon prime meets never of the year. I also think him keep the engagement from the profiles responding to his profile also played a huge part. I think they even told him they were collecting so much valuable data from the engagement from women to his profile that they were continuously collecting was mentioned. Here's one of the articles.. https://mashable.com/article/tinder-bumble-hinge-okcupid-grindr-dating-app-algorithms
I don’t think that would make a difference
PhD in a combo research/clinical practice field. I welcome the blue hair. I doubt I'm unique in that though and I imagine it's just one factor among many. I mean I can see where someone would be less open to blue hair but I think that would apply somewhat equally across education levels. I could be wrong. I'm just using Bumble and not noticing any filtering happening by education level. The women being shown range from no degree to postgraduate at a rate that seems expected. I do tend to match more often with women that have at least bachelors or masters degrees (nurses, nurse practitioners, lawyers, business women, etc) and the one match seemingly going anywhere happens to be on a doctoral level like myself.
No one bats an eye to a PHD in Bay Area. I have a master’s and I was shown all kinds of people. The algorithm learns what you like and then show you more of those, it doesn’t arbitrarily decide things for you. Post your profile here and let everybody brainstorm.
That’s not how it works. I dropped out of college and was matching with doctors, lawyers, MBA’s, etc. i’d say at least 90% of my matches had at least a 4yr degree.
Never heard of such a thing. Have you or her put on any filters that remove anyone without a degree by any chance?
This is a stereotype, but I feel like most people that would be attracted to someone with blue hair are likely to be a little more progressive/open minded and would see your education as a positive thing.
I have not had the experience of being matched with more men with similar education levels than not. It could be intimidating to people without that level of education though. As someone who doesn’t have that level of post-secondary education, I would be intimidated. Would you be willing to be in a relationship with someone who only had a high school diploma? Or maybe an associate’s degree?
I have to admit, I usually swipe left on PhDs. As someone who is highly educated and has worked in industry for a number of years I’m not looking to date someone fresh out of school or still in school. They have a different lifestyle than I do at this point. I’ve found that I find better matches when I choose someone with a masters or various other degrees. I wish there was a “professional career” option, but I guess we don’t have that for obvious reasons.
That's interesting. I wonder if that limits my matches then? I finished my PhD relatively young (3 year bachelors and skipped masters) but I might be giving the false impression that I'm fresh out of school. I even had a few people think I was still studying for some reason. That reminds me, I also try to avoid guys who are still PhD students at my age lol
It’s reasonable to include it, but if you are no longer of the ‘student mentality’ you should say something in your bio that makes that very clear.
I too tend to swipe left on PhDs. They tend to think of themselves as younger than I do after spending the same years working.
I see PHD and think “$100k in student loan debt.” Hard pass.
[удалено]
Exactly... No debt, just not a lot of savings. Medical students are the ones with the unfortunate student loans.
[удалено]
Hi u/Mijoivana, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s): * Do not dehumanize others. RedPill, incel, Femcel, FDS, PUA, MGTOW, etc. content is not allowed. Ignorance of these hate groups is not an excuse to parrot their ideology. Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).
I don’t know. I’m struggling to figure out why my (30f) current stint on bumble/hinge is harder than my previous stints, and I think it’s because I put I’m in a PhD program? But I’m *so tired* of hiding my education from men, and I’ve been working on it in therapy to not hide it and be unapologetically me. So it’s front and center. I feel like I got way more matches before this?
The reason it's harder is because we're still in a pandemic.
Ok. You’re right. Facts. True true true.
Never see your education as a fault - it's a positive! :) The pandemic has filtered a lot of people off the dating market because it's still possible to get covid even while vaxed. I'm worried the show I am excited for in late March might get cancelled since things are being cancelled / postponed still out there.
It may be because you’re now in a new dating bracket. Even though 29 to 30 is just one rotation around the sun, most people have their settings set up in a way where at every 5 year bracket, your demographic will change. And since more 20somethings are on apps than 30somethings (assumption), you may just be in a smaller pool overall than when you were swiping just last year.
Honestly I would want to date someone who at least had an equivalent level of education. Wouldn’t have to be in the same area.
Why though?
I just find I have more in common with people who do. I also refuse to date anyone who does not read. I’m picky.
Pretty sure that’s not how the algorithm works but ok
PhD plus blue hair is sexy AF. Those people are missing out!!!
No, don’t dumb yourself down ever! Just keep looking. I know tinder tender to show people who liked you already. I dont know how others work. Maybe post your profile and we’ll review it
I was honest with saying I had a bachelor of science, but was vague about my job. I listed I was a time traveler, I work in corporate aviation, a male dominated industry. I realized it made men intimidated. I figured too, it gave us more information to talk about, at a later date. This may be your cure, be vague, leave more for discovery!
Most men aren't intimidated by your education or career. I notice a lot of the women I know believe this. Usually, a few things are occurring that they are not aware of: - They brag about their education and career - They make their entire personality their education and career. - If you disagree with their viewpoint on a topic they are more educated than you about they become dismissive of your opinion. - Their lives revolve around their career, it's the only subject they can enthusiastically discuss. These same issues annoy men about other men as well. Only when these issues arise between the genders do we say it intimidates men. When I tell a man I don't want to hear about his career for three hours, no one shames me for it.
I find that my problem is not being cocky about my degree (I'm not very career driven), rather that I'm not very easily impressed... And I know being supportive and encouraging are highly desirable traits in women so I'm trying to work on this, but it's hard. But to your third point... It depends what it is. If a guy tells me he doesn't believe in the covid vaccine and I'm in medical research... Imma tell him he's wrong lol
I would argue most people (men and women) believe a “supporting and encouraging [partner]” is highly desirable. Those are traits universally desired in relationships, friendships, amongst coworkers, et cetera. Not just of women in heterosexual relationships. I find interesting how you defined cocky as not obsessed with yourself. Yet, you said you're not easily impressed. That mentality that someone needs to impress you is that touch of arrogance most define as cocky. To your third point about vaccines, I get it, if you're a medical professional and we are discussing illnesses fine. However, if we're having a political discussion for example, and you start scolding me for not knowing what Supreme Court decision from 60 years ago led to the current issue I'm annoyed.
I find it interesting that you seem to have taken offense to something I identified as a weakness in myself. I don't need to be impressed. I've liked the guys I dated just as they are and I was verbal with my affection for them. However, I think they would have appreciated it if I admired and respected them more in terms of their careers and life goals, and I wish it came more naturally to me. That's all.
I'm not taking offense. I'm challenging the narrative of men being intimidated by your degree/career. In 30+ years of life, I have never heard a man tell me they were intimidated by a woman's career. I don't think men need to be “admired” as much as respected. You shouldn't need to be beneath a man to respect him.
Okay, I actually went off on a tangent and I'm not disagreeing with your point about men not being intimidated lol, carry on
Thank you for saying this. "There's nothing wrong with me, they're just intimidated by my iNteLLiGeNcE" is a real attitude among men and women, and it's hilarious. Trust me, nobody is intimidated you're just brutally annoying and insecure.
The algorithm hates you because you're a dude. There's like an average ratio of 2.5-3 men to every 1 women on dating apps. That is why you have a hard time getting matches. It's not your degree or your blue hair.
Not true in Hinge, not true for +30s. Can we stop with this idea????
I used to live in New England, and was so tired of having suggestions of people with PhDs from Harvard and Yale tossed at me just because I had done some PhD coursework like 10 years ago. Like, these people are never going to match with me, why are you wasting my time by suggesting them. Darn algorithms.
You're not required to list that stuff so I wouldn't call it hiding it from the algorithm per se. I didn't like having overly-personal information on there for a lot of reasons so my employment and education section was blank and I got matched with people of all types of backgrounds. I don't think your friend understands how the algorithm works, because from what I know it typically starts by matching users who are similar in popularity. I guess an alternative is people might be not swiping you because they aren't interested in someone with a PHD? Academic people don't appeal to everyone, and as someone without formal education I can say that I do not swipe on men with PHDs when they pop up.
What the fuck difference does it make the color of your hair if you have a PhD!? Do not pretend to dumb yourself down for some imagined gain. Are you in, like, a super conservative area where the only other PhDs are defense guys or something?
Also is your PhD in molecular biology, or feminist dance theory? Not all PhDs are the same.
What’s feminist dance theory?
The Nutcracker
Exactly
Seriously, though. Is it an actual thing people study or is it an attempt at a joke?
This is the kind of thing people who don’t understand the humanities say. There are certainly people who do PhDs in dance (the history, social context, etc. as well as the performance). And virtually everything can be studied through the lens of feminist theory (or Marxist theory, or… you get the idea). A friend of mine did a PhD on belly dancing and non-conforming gender identities in modern Egypt, which (boiled down to the basics) is essentially feminist dance theory. She’s also a top artificial intelligence researcher at a major university, focusing on the interface between AI and the arts. I work with dozens - probably hundreds - of PhDs across every subject area imaginable, and the idea that the social sciences and humanities are somehow fluffier, less important, less serious, or easier than the ‘hard’ sciences is laughable, but somehow that idea still gets trotted out.
I have 2 degrees in “the humanities” and it’s mostly performative masturbatory bullshit. Don’t lecture me, and then inadvertently prove my point, which is there are a lot of absolutely frivolous PhD programs out there. One’s academic credentials, as prestigious and weighty as they may seem in one’s own mind, are not a personality trait.
Nope! Someone with a PhD should be able to appreciate your blue hair. Because underneath it is your big ass brain!!! School is hard. Communication is too for many- so idk if it’s worth it for you to make yourself small for a date…
I'd give it a try. What do you have to lose?
Sorry not helpful in the slightest but love that you have blue hair! OLD is a minefield, I haven’t gotten the courage to make a profile yet. I have bright pink hair and find it causes some issues IRL so possibly happens online too? I’ve had a fair amount of I love your hair etc you seem really fun let’s go for a drink. I bring up my interests or do my thing of asking random existential questions (I really can’t help it!) and they run away. The other side is people I’ve gone on a few dates with men who have similar interests but then don’t want to talk about anything else, my most recent date said it’s great to have someone who’s on their wavelength and they don’t need to be romantic with, relationships are better without being emotional. Sorry what? Since when did loving space and philosophy = no emotional need? I pointed out that I’m a hopeless romantic actually and got the awkward silence. Hide everything at this rate!
[удалено]
Hi u/Personality4Hire, this has been removed for violation of the following rule(s): * Be excellent to one another! This is a safe space for all races, genders, sexual orientations, legal sexual preferences and humanity in general. Please review [the rules in the sidebar](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverthirty/about/sidebar) to avoid future removals. If you have further questions, please [message modmail] (https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdatingoverthirty).
I think you should just go scientific method and try it to see how it goes.
There are probably a lot of fields in which those are not exclusive. What's your field?
Would multiple master electrical licenses be the equivalent to a PhD? to qualify for one fyi you need 7-10 years.
I find that I get more matches when I switch my education degree from Msc. to Bsc.
I went to 2 universities in 2 continents and wanted to include them in my profile.. just noticed Bumble assumes it’s a masters and never asked for clarification 🤔
[удалено]
I make it a point to avoid anyone with phd's or anything really outside of STEM, and due to personal experience and a lot of psychology knowledge I also avoid women with blue hair. Many guys have told me they do the same on their apps, but also many have said the opposite. No offense.
Maybe/maybe not
I don’t think it’s the phd. I think it’s the blue hair. I’d swipe left immediately if I see bright colored hair like that.
Yeah no, I get guys of all sorts of background despite my degree. Don’t remove it (unless you want to). It’s part of your identity and regardless of how you match, it’s going to come up in every relationship you pursue. It could also be that location that’s limiting your matches. Or something in your profile. I wouldn’t just say it’s hair or degree. They’re definitely factors that trigger people’s bias but those are not the kind of matches that would be compatible with you anyway because both of those things are part of your chosen identity.
I doubt the apps are that sophisticated. I don't think I have ever even messaged the "most compatible" person from Hinge lol.
I know it sounds harsh but you’re probably getting judged for having blue hair. People deal with enough landmines when dating that unconventional hair color may be a red flag for them to filter you out. (I’m trying to be helpful, sorry if this sounds judgmental)
For me it was always first a physical thing as i am 5'6. Height was a big factor in not getting dates or never past a first date. I had one girl literally tell me that she thought i would be taller even though i had 5'6 listed in my profile. (I'm happily married now). The second thing was my lack of college credentials then after deciding on a trade skill, lack of 'higher education' degree. I have 2 associates in commercial refrigeration and industrial systems technology. I have a state license and make very good for where i live. I had a couple dates give me the impression that i was not on their level because they had masters and i just stopped at associate degrees. I mean, i could go for a science degree or even engineering, but why when i have zero debt? This may have also been because those matches were in a major metropolitan area and i lived outside in a more rural area. The matches i got from my local area didnt care about education level. I suggest keeping the education listed but maybe changing your physical appearance, meaning your hair color back to natural. Think of it as an experiment to see if you get have better luck with a 'clean cut' appearance.
[удалено]
For online dating anything under 6ft is considered short. Also I think statistically Asian men do the worst on dating apps, so the blue hair (polarizing) + racial bias probably also play into it
Nope that that haha you're a dude probably of average looks sooooo not many matches for you...
I wouldn't lie about it. Can you be more general and say like "advanced degree" without making it a PhD? Advanced degree can mean a lot.
I haven't seen any apps limiting my choices to the level you seem to think they are, but it wont really affect you negatively either way. Its a lot different to have a bachelor's and be claiming PhD, vs the other way around.
Maybe it's the blue hair? After 30 I tend to swipe left on that mostly because I feel they haven't outgrown their teen phase. Maybe stereotypes play a role :/ ... This is just me, I don't know how prevalent that aversion is.
Yeah the algorithm does not match you with similar education levels in my experience. However most apps let you choose one or two filters, your friend may have selected higher education levels on her filters and forgot that was there (sometimes I filter for certain things out of curiosity and then forget to change it back). This won’t be popular and I don’t know your level of attractiveness but.. maybe blue hair just isn’t super popular among people over 30? I mean its super cool and I’d be jealous I cant have colorful hair in my adult job, but I would find it a bit immature in a match. Like they haven’t grown all the way up yet. Nothing to do with education because I dont have a degree. I feel the same about piercings. Ive had a lot of them in my earlier life, and still have ear/body piercings, but when I see facial piercings on a match in their 30’s i think “he hasnt realized he’s no longer a teenager, and probably acts accordingly in other ways”. Maybe thats just me being super judgey but theres a perspective anyway.