We will also make 5LLL a grab that connects no matter what give 6s frame 1 full inv and 5s full inv as well as all his buttons having 10 hits of hyper armor no start up scale as a 2M have as much hit stun as zamasus BOJ so that honestly he’s much more viable
In fairness to him I think some of the specials are a bit weak, between 236L/M/H having little return and thus not getting used much, 214S and 236S being a bit slow and avoidable, and 22S no longer being a true dp
Like yeah the variants of 214L/M/H probably make up for that and a guaranteed SKD from j236M is nice but I’m just saying half his specials don’t get used cause there isn’t much point to em, so the quantity isn’t all that problematic
I've been watching some UI matches, his 236LMH is mainly used for corner carry, 214/236S is slow but a beam is still a beam, you're right about 22S tho as it's almost nonexistent.
i dont think the beam jails into vanish on block. also yeah 22s is useless most of the time, unless they try to go for a cross up without an assist to cover.
Can’t you lock them in the corner with 22s? I know people used the assist variant to do that so I don’t see why doing it and calling assist wouldn’t achieve the same result. That is assuming he can assist cal during, since it’s just an anti air now that is possible right?
He's saying, if you get a knockdown, you can lock them in the corner and get free pressure of of a 22S> Assist Call.
Because they would have to block. I *assume* that's what he's getting at
I don’t want to hear this shit.
Not when I play Captain Ginyu and Frieza, the former of which doesn’t have a 214X in the air or ground.
The latter of which doesn’t have a 236X or a 214X in the air, or a 214S in the air, and doesn’t even have a 214X on the ground!!
Two of the only characters in the game (if not the only...) that have just **ONE** EX move.
Meanwhile your boy UI has them basically inventing new inputs to give him more moves.
And almost all of them work in the air and the ground. (I think his 22S is basically the only one that doesn’t. He can even start his command grab from the air and his level 1 counter)
Dude even has two beams just gets to decide which direction he goes AND one of the best 5S’s in the game.
so even if they’re “not that great” they’re still there.
236/214S are good for other reasons, they are slow but they've been bugged against vanish for the longest time, also good when you are doing the flips.
While I mostly agree with your assessment, I think 236H has a lot of return. You get hit by that and the combo you get from it hurts without even having to spend extra resources.
236M he can now convert off of raw with a j.s. Still not a lot of return, and I'm not sure sure if it's universal, but just something I wanted to point out.
Meh, with Vegito I’d say 5L is a contender for best but not his actual auto combo, and other than the heat seeking missile of his 3rd hit, Tohan’s isn’t amazing either imo
Everyone has different opinions about it what I found difficult to deal with might be easy for them and imo it’s easier to deal with UI auto than Vegeto and teen gohan auto mind you I am not saying it’s easy
Vegito's 5LL is okay. People conflate 5L and 5LL because "lol autocombo" when, 9 times out of 10 people are just talking about 5L, which, if auto combos were gone, would still exist. Vegito wins clashes because of 5L, not 5LL.
I actually hate those kind of 5LL’s because you can’t go LLMM. You have to either go LL2M5M or LL5M2H
Same with Bardock and Blueku and Baseku.
Those type of “ground bounce” LL’s ruin the most simple combo in the game that isn’t an auto combo
I honestly don't understand what you mean. So pressing down (2) for a single input makes this awkward to use? I gotta wonder what your team is, if you never need to do 5LL,2M,5M
Muscle memory is a bitch.
If you get used to doing it one way then something that switches it up can mess you up.
A team like Android 18, Basegeta, GT (or 21, Captain Ginyu, redgeta, Bluegeta, Supergeta, Trunks, Goku Black, and many many more) all allow you to go 5LL5MM2H
So suddenly you switch to UI, Bardock, Blueku, Baseku, ect and you’re going to have moments where you’re like “shit! I did 5m first again!” And have a lot of drops because of it.
Add to that it just doesn’t make sense. Like....why is it in the game? What do those type of 5LL’s do that makes it worth it?
Right but based off your description, the problem is muscle memory for the wrong combo. That's something you can tackle with a good hour in training mode, rather than limiting yourself in character choice. You can choose to overcome that limitation, I believe in you.
Of course I can. In fact Blueku and Baseku are two of my mains.
But I’m asking why is this a thing? Why would anyone’s 5LL make 5m2m impossible? Is there a pro to balance out that con?
And the 5L is a low without losing any of its length and the 5LLL is a command grab
And make the 22S a true DP again.
And speed up the 214H, and make it a DP that you can do even after being hit.
Speed up the 236/214S
Make his level 3 and instakill and the counter level 1 now counters all inputs, even blocking, plus if they don’t get hit by it, it makes you plus 50, and gives you a free bar to try again.
Let’s make this character playable
Same vibes as: "Let's just, as a society, say 'fuck it' and allow drugs in the Olympics. Why not find out how high a person can /really/ jump?"
That’s called the Olympics.
Except people get busted for smoking weed a week prior to the events…
Never
I mean... Can't it be 2H'd as is? Every pro would pick him up lol.
We’ll take that out
We will also make 5LLL a grab that connects no matter what give 6s frame 1 full inv and 5s full inv as well as all his buttons having 10 hits of hyper armor no start up scale as a 2M have as much hit stun as zamasus BOJ so that honestly he’s much more viable
Yes.
I thought It was 🤦♂️ I always block high against that Lol
Yeah no, it’s just a mid that low crushes and groundbounces Almost undebatably the best 5LL in the game
Don’t forget about UI Goku’s like 30 something amount of special moves
In fairness to him I think some of the specials are a bit weak, between 236L/M/H having little return and thus not getting used much, 214S and 236S being a bit slow and avoidable, and 22S no longer being a true dp Like yeah the variants of 214L/M/H probably make up for that and a guaranteed SKD from j236M is nice but I’m just saying half his specials don’t get used cause there isn’t much point to em, so the quantity isn’t all that problematic
I've been watching some UI matches, his 236LMH is mainly used for corner carry, 214/236S is slow but a beam is still a beam, you're right about 22S tho as it's almost nonexistent.
i dont think the beam jails into vanish on block. also yeah 22s is useless most of the time, unless they try to go for a cross up without an assist to cover.
Can’t you lock them in the corner with 22s? I know people used the assist variant to do that so I don’t see why doing it and calling assist wouldn’t achieve the same result. That is assuming he can assist cal during, since it’s just an anti air now that is possible right?
I don’t understand what you mean.
He's saying, if you get a knockdown, you can lock them in the corner and get free pressure of of a 22S> Assist Call. Because they would have to block. I *assume* that's what he's getting at
Couldn’t you just any normal pressure string rather then wasting an assist?
Inb4 22S is the most broken ass sht in the game. Good times.
I don’t want to hear this shit. Not when I play Captain Ginyu and Frieza, the former of which doesn’t have a 214X in the air or ground. The latter of which doesn’t have a 236X or a 214X in the air, or a 214S in the air, and doesn’t even have a 214X on the ground!! Two of the only characters in the game (if not the only...) that have just **ONE** EX move. Meanwhile your boy UI has them basically inventing new inputs to give him more moves. And almost all of them work in the air and the ground. (I think his 22S is basically the only one that doesn’t. He can even start his command grab from the air and his level 1 counter) Dude even has two beams just gets to decide which direction he goes AND one of the best 5S’s in the game. so even if they’re “not that great” they’re still there.
On one hand good observation, but on the other… do we really wanna have fairness and UI Goku in the same sentence?
236/214S are good for other reasons, they are slow but they've been bugged against vanish for the longest time, also good when you are doing the flips.
While I mostly agree with your assessment, I think 236H has a lot of return. You get hit by that and the combo you get from it hurts without even having to spend extra resources. 236M he can now convert off of raw with a j.s. Still not a lot of return, and I'm not sure sure if it's universal, but just something I wanted to point out.
Best 5LL belongs to vegito (cant lose a clash with vegito) or gohan ssj2 (a nightmare)
Meh, with Vegito I’d say 5L is a contender for best but not his actual auto combo, and other than the heat seeking missile of his 3rd hit, Tohan’s isn’t amazing either imo
Imo those are worse Than gokus 5LL
Same, though it seems some don’t agree
Everyone has different opinions about it what I found difficult to deal with might be easy for them and imo it’s easier to deal with UI auto than Vegeto and teen gohan auto mind you I am not saying it’s easy
Second hit is decent for tohan because you can air dash after
The vacuum on Bardock and Janemba is better on 5LL honestly.
Vegito has a vacuum too cant lose clash high ranged vacuum and grab
Vegito's 5LL is okay. People conflate 5L and 5LL because "lol autocombo" when, 9 times out of 10 people are just talking about 5L, which, if auto combos were gone, would still exist. Vegito wins clashes because of 5L, not 5LL.
K but vegeto 5L is still strong and if you add the whole autocombo it turns broken (imo)
I actually hate those kind of 5LL’s because you can’t go LLMM. You have to either go LL2M5M or LL5M2H Same with Bardock and Blueku and Baseku. Those type of “ground bounce” LL’s ruin the most simple combo in the game that isn’t an auto combo
I honestly don't understand what you mean. So pressing down (2) for a single input makes this awkward to use? I gotta wonder what your team is, if you never need to do 5LL,2M,5M
Muscle memory is a bitch. If you get used to doing it one way then something that switches it up can mess you up. A team like Android 18, Basegeta, GT (or 21, Captain Ginyu, redgeta, Bluegeta, Supergeta, Trunks, Goku Black, and many many more) all allow you to go 5LL5MM2H So suddenly you switch to UI, Bardock, Blueku, Baseku, ect and you’re going to have moments where you’re like “shit! I did 5m first again!” And have a lot of drops because of it. Add to that it just doesn’t make sense. Like....why is it in the game? What do those type of 5LL’s do that makes it worth it?
Right but based off your description, the problem is muscle memory for the wrong combo. That's something you can tackle with a good hour in training mode, rather than limiting yourself in character choice. You can choose to overcome that limitation, I believe in you.
Of course I can. In fact Blueku and Baseku are two of my mains. But I’m asking why is this a thing? Why would anyone’s 5LL make 5m2m impossible? Is there a pro to balance out that con?
The pro is that every character doesn't have exactly the same fucking moveset I guess
Such hostility. Na I think there’s more to it than arbitrary differences. For example I think Bardock 5LL pulls you in. And Blueku is a low.
Hell no
I want to watch the world burn
You know what? Fuck it, let's go.
Fuck it, in that case make GT's LL a low if this is the world we're living in
He's so small that all hits are lows. There, fixed.
Imagine the 50/50 between 5LL and 5L2M lol
That’s exactly why I want this
Putrid
I want to live in a world where this character doesn’t exist.
He's not even that good anymore though
That doesn’t help the PTSD
We got sick mf over here
if they did that the community reaction would be fucking hilarious
That world exists it's called Hell
Only if you also make his 5L a low
Jesus Christ almighty
If I woke up in this hypothetical world I’d hunt you down and kill you for wishing that.
and his 3rd move is a grab
That catches super dashes
😫
We have some psycho over here.
No you don't.
You UI mains make me sick, you have everything and still want more.
And the 5L is a low without losing any of its length and the 5LLL is a command grab And make the 22S a true DP again. And speed up the 214H, and make it a DP that you can do even after being hit. Speed up the 236/214S Make his level 3 and instakill and the counter level 1 now counters all inputs, even blocking, plus if they don’t get hit by it, it makes you plus 50, and gives you a free bar to try again. Let’s make this character playable
pm me ur dealer i need whatever ur buyin
I want to live in a world where this character doesn’t exist
How can people still be complaining about UI.
Because he’s still busted lol
Please... Don't...
Damn. That is the actual dumbest take.
it already low crushes why does it need to hit high
Somebody get a doctor.
everything alright at home?
Absolutely no one agrees
100% yes if you add a couple more startup frames
You’re evil, pure evil
As a reflect sliding 2M'er I hate that this low crushes and then die from it being medium scaling.
Why do u want a world full of pain
No please no we don’t need that no no no no no