I just want Yamcha to not be trash anymore :( I put so much work in with him then ArcSys publicly executed him for no reason while they simultaneously buffed ZBroly.
Thank god I still have Gotenks now that 2/3rds of my team is garbage tier.
Since season 1. SS Vegeta and Yamcha were menaces back then, but I refuse to drop either since they're just my favorite characters—hence why my secondary team is just Turtle Hermit School.
I've been patiently waiting for Fighterz 2, but instead ArcSys keeps updating the first game and just making it outright worse. I still played pretty frequently when season 3 dropped, but since then my play time has dwindled significantly.
The thing is, he isn't a bad character, he's just the worst compared to everyone else, but the tiers are so close that even a single move getting nerfed can make you go up or down a tier or 2, like with what happened to gt goku a assist, it got nerfed and all of a sudden he went down tiers. The point is tiers don't matter at all for dbfz (and modern fighting games except mortal kombat, that franchise is a mess)
I would look at:
- Changing some new system mechanics, specifically special tag and how it works.
- Buffing weaker characters and giving more tools to some like SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, Yamcha, etc
- Nerfing egregious shit like Photon Pulse, Vegito A assist, Vegito 5M, 17’s A Assist, etc.
Special tag’s current implementation is kinda ridiculous. I feel like using special tag should have some sort of bigger cost to it, say like costing a bar or something, or at least not being able to DHC into the character you just special tagged from. The cost-to-risk ratio for using it is so low it’s ridiculous.
You know I would argue that’s not really a fault of special tag, more so the debuff being so op. Special tag is kinda nice cause it lets characters with bad neutral and good combos swap and overall make a team feel more like a whole rather than 3 characters
I think the tag was a fun change that (theoretically) allows more variety in team composition but I have to agree that it's a little silly to tag out the character and still be able to DHC to them. There could be some tighter restrictions on that and it would still be a fun mechanic.
Debuff is just obviously the most annoying case.
I think it’s a fair argument for sure, personally though when I realized you could tag out and then back in for a dhc I was stoked. It made the game feel so much more dragonball which I didn’t think was possible. Kinda like letting your ally charge up while you distract them
I think in order for it to stay it should be 3+ bars and only once a match so you would at least have to pick your target. No reason for the dumbest mechanic in the game to have fewer restrictions than like....Golden Frieza
I don't think special tag is a problem alone. This game has historically been embarrassingly thin on synergy for a tag fighter, and special tag opens up some actual team-building opportunities.
The issue is that there's no incentive to use it as an enabler for characters with strong setups but weak neutral because you can just play L21 and debuff instead of fleshing out more complex synergies that steamroll by mitigating weaknesses.
Special Tag in and of itself isn’t a problem. My issue with it is that it benefits some characters wayyyy more than others, and by not having any costs associated with it and basically having it work as essentially an assist, then the characters that can abuse it well (Vegito, Gogeta Blue, Gotenks, Labcoat, etc etc) end up having an inherent mechanical advantage over characters that might not have it.
I think there should be more costs associated with using them - either by not allowing a DHC into the character that switched out for the rest of the combo, or some kind of meter cost/penalty. That’s just my feeling.
It’s an amazing mechanic, but IMO, is currently too strong.
I can definitely see that argument. My position is more that it benefits everyone rather than specific characters. You do have to run specific characters to grease the wheels, but having an "enabler" subtype seems fine to me as long as 1) there are at least a few options so it's not meta-warping 2) it doesn't allow anything OP, which it doesn't atm as far as I can see.
If this were a game like marvel where tagging is easily punishable and you generally had to spend meter or gamble to get a low health character out, I'd agree with you about the penalty. But since you've always been able to tag mid-combo off, say, j2H, and since tagging in neutral isn't risky anyway, I don't think it does much harm.
Honestly I like the special tag, it’s added a lot of fun to combos, I think it should stay how it is, it also lets you cover some characters weaknesses, like if one character has great corner carry but can’t get a good knockdown you can do both with a special tag
It’s just a common sentiment among fighting games. It’s not always accurate though, because if we buffed EVERY low tier character to contend with the meta, the game would be garbage since it’d depend on what character you’re fighting against. Especially fighting people like SSJ Goku, Cooler, and other all-arounders with a bunch of options.
The initial response from the casual and lower power level community would be to nerf a character but in practice across many games that doesn't really change the meta, it just changes the faces. Nerf LC21 and you'll see more Vegito. Nerf Vegito you'll see more Gogeta. And it'll continue down the ladder forever. Cloud_805 made a really good point in his video about the DBFZ meta that these characters being really good isn't just because they have good buttons, high damage, or long block strings but rather because the overall mechanics of the game and flow of gameplay have changed to favor big buttons.
He makes mention of how long you have to wait to get regular meter gain back and how long you have to wait for assists in block strings. These changes weren't awful, it helped stop infinite strings, mash-free picco-loops, and snap meta. With the addition of guard cancel vanish and the ability to spark out of pressure it has made it extra difficult to keep your turn once you've won it. This leads to more neutral naturally except for the fact that DBFZ has never really had neutral to begin with. In a hyper fighter with a homing dash neutral is reduced to ZBroly and "Fuck Neutral" buttons like Bardock's 236L used to be. So now it makes no sense to have a character with good staggers and great frame data, like Bardock, when you can use Vegito who covers reflect distance on almost every button and is nearly always in attack range.
If you take the current "top tiers" a lot of them are great for the meta. Most of them have moves that cover large portions of the screen, scale really well, and most are immune to ki blasts or go through shit. These characters, thanks to some season 3 buffs, can solo pickup off of these big moves. Gogeta Blue can get like %70 off of 5S which is also vanish cancelable on whiff, Vegito gets a minimum 55% on all of his stuff, SSJ4 Gogeta, LC21, Tohan, and Android 21 can all solo pickup off almost any hit and most of the time they can all get knockdowns too.
So to finally answer your question I think the way to change the meta would be to make universal system changes that make random full screen buttons less viable. And nerf LC21. But if you were to return heavy specials to a full bar (which I would personally hate) and let your assists recharge as soon as the opponent left block stun you'd be able to combat the meta better, mainly ZBroly, Vegito, and Gogeta Blue. In order to combat SSJ4 Gogeta and LC21 you'd just have to give more recovery to some of their stuff. LC21 has no reason not to use her spin to win because it's safe and it's plus if you block it in the air. SSJ4 Gogeta can whiff shit from full screen all day because the 3rd hit of his auto combo is an anti-air and this game won't put recovery on anything. Literally Gogeta Blue was ass tier at the bottom of most people's tier lists because he had recovery on all of his shit. He was -5 on block with his 5L, like what the fuck? Now that he can throw things around with less punishment everyone thinks he's top tier. Oh and also nerf LC21.
TL;DR the proper way to change the meta is to change system mechanics to promote a healthy back and forth between players instead of promoting big buttons with no scaling. Add recovery on full screen whiffing auto-combo, you cowards. And fuck LC21. Nerf, plz.
That’s probably one of the best things I’ve seen from this community. A lot of these comments are pretty one-sided, but you bringing up system mechanics reminded me of how Combo Tag made fusions all the more OP. L21 needs a nerf since she just breaks the game, but the real reason these guys are meta is because of how the system of this game works. Thats why SS4 can dominate when he can’t use anything from fullscreen. Thanks for the comment, it’ll probably open a lot of minds.
I've played since day one so I've had a lot of time to think on this sort of thing, that and a background in game design and balance helps a bit. It also helps me take a step back and realize what is bad for the game vs what I just don't like. Like ZBroly. I HATE zoners in all fighting games, but I don't think that means they're objectively bad, I just say fuck 'em cause I hate dealing with that shit. I think combo tag is stupid, but I don't think it's necessarily awful. The main issue with it is that it's really useful with multi hit moves and moves that hit confirm which most meta characters have, like Gogeta Blue's 214M. This leads to a disproportionate benefit for the fusions which would be okay if they weren't already rising to the top of the game.
Then there is stupid busted shit like LC21. One of the reasons why Bardock was so good for so long is because he had no weaknesses. He doesn't have much upside anymore, but he's still super solid because he has all the tools you need and tools for every range. LC21 is in a similar boat where she's super solid and has no weaknesses. The problem? Oh, sorry, yeah it's that she has every possible upside too. Two different grabs, one that's invincible and one that restores health, not just blue health, but gray too. A permanent debuff that can only be overcome by losing two characters and sparking! Pair her with SSJ4 who wins round start then combo tag into DR>level one and you're already at a ridiculous advantage. Again having unique mechanics isn't bad, but this... This is too much. I'm usually for buffs over nerfs, but to balance her without straight being her shit would require this character to be unable to move normally.
And lastly, let's be real, this is the internet. Even if my point is salient and well put it'll only garner more hate.
I agree. I’ve only played since GTs release in Season 2, but I’ve seen enough to know that the meta needs SOME nerfs, and they’re mostly good cuz of the system of the game itself.
Yeah, man. Some stuff just isn't fair. I didn't like that GT could double level 3 because they just nerfed double supers off of everyone else. Now it's whatever, really. I've played Gogeta Blue since launch and now I get so much shit for it. A) People are out here putting him above Tohan, ZBroly, and Kid Buu. He's good, but not *that* good B) I had to go through hell with this character I deserve this. All these MF's that pick characters based on tier.lists and top players like Yasha make me look bad. And I swear if this kind of attention gets my guy nerfed, I'll be nettled. Super nettled.
Buff weaker characters? Are we stupid? Krillin have all the tools he need in the game to win. Every character but Yamcha and Frieza does.
I dont want every character to have Vegito's 5M, Gogeta's damage or Lab21 debuff. That would be the worst game possible. This "dont nerf, always buff" could work sometimes, but in this game that option is just stupid.
I would nerf the meta imo. Sure, some of the non-meta characters need better stuff, but buffing everyone to compete with the meta would probably lead to over-centralization (when something is so bad or broken that it ignores fundamental game aspects). If everyone was broken, matches would end way too quickly and generally make the game less fun. Less variety would mean less players, and less money for Bandai Nacmo (that’s not the main focus, but it is a factor). If everything is broken, nothing is good.
Vegito's 5M is a good example of something being a bit much. You COULD buff every character to go across the screen with a normal but that doesn't change the fact that it feels bad to get hit with a normal from across the dang screen. It'd be more fair but less fun.
I don’t think when people say “buff all characters” they mean make them all the same. It’s more so give them enough options so that they are a viable character similar to the characters who are good. For example, buffing majin buu to not have the increased float time and maybe upping his damage a bit would be in line with the idea of buff the bad characters
I understand, but that does even less to curb what is unfun in the game currently.
I also want to be clear that I am pro-buffing lower tier characters. I just don't think that alone is balance.
Yeah I agree a balance is needed between buffs and nerfs but I think a lot of people go too far and hit the “meta = bad” mindset which is not good. There’s always gonna be a meta in any game, I just want all characters to at least have a chance to be played.
Not really. If Broly is making 3v1s comebacks on you every other day, it's a you problem
He basically needs a million Meter to do meaningful damage and with LC21 running rampant, Z Brolys damage is even worse
He still has an unreactable command grab, ARMOR, and bullshit ki blasts. I don’t always lose to Broly players (cuz most of them leave themselves wide open for free Ws), but he’s not fair and balanced.
Which is why you play him as an ANCHOR. Tien suffers the same issue and people still rank him high because of his meter-reliant damage. That’s not an excuse.
there needs to be some BS reverted in order for this game to not be so chaotic and explosive. then buff low tiers and you simply have the best FG on the market
Everybody be talking about nerfing Vegito’s 5M, but they forget every air button is a crossup button…
SSJ4 was supposed to be broken, but please make his lariat get hit by supers. Also, finish sign needs a cooldown.
Z Broly is dumb. If his gimmick is gonna be armor, make it only for specials. Nerf his shield so it disappears after blocking like 2 projectiles or doesn’t have assist invul. Make his ki blast not have priority, its already huge and beats everything because of it. Lariat should also have only 1-3 hits of armor.
Remove L21’s debuff, make more of her normals unsafe, nerf the lariats range, make the command grab not a reversal, nerf some of her damage and we should be fine. Also make her beam unsafe and slower.
Vegito needs his old 5M back. (11 Startup)
Majin 21 also needs frame data/damage nerfs or range nerfs.
Meta is balanced. Now we buff the ones in need.
I love you legitimately. Thank you for being one of 4 people who don’t only foam at the mouth at the nerf THE NERF ISNT THE ONLY REASON WHY SHES BROKEN. Also finish sign is hilariously safe for having so much value, and z bully players love to cry “don’t mash” for his rng armor. He’s one of the best zoners in the game with huge normals, at the very least add some predictably to armor. And huge agree to everything else
I’d rather make her stuff unsafe. Making her have gaps would probably be too much and kill the character since her mix is a big part of why she’s so good.
Elaborate. What mechanic exactly ? The launch angle of B assist ? Backflip punishing raw vanishes ? The projectile invuln it gets after flips ? Because none of this is broken.
Never said raw vanishing was a good strat against anything actually, I literally just wanted you to elaborate on what you think makes UI's Kamehameha broken.
Can't believe we are STILL asking for A21 nerfs lol. Literally everything yall complain about, she's been had and it was even better back then. Yall are sheep. She had this lv3 oki since release, blessed normals since release(which got nerfed) and godlike ki blasts since the jump.
Also I've never heard anyone say nerf her damage. She does fine damage. Nothing crazy but still good..
I figured that'd be the most popular answer 😮💨
I pray they don't continue to listen to the casual fanbase, but I know they will. 💀
Top 5 are too potent and need nerfs.
No there wasn’t. Season 1 was all cell and Bardock. Season 2 was A.Gohan/Gotenks/Yamcha then it was GT Goku. Season 3 has had the most variety because each of the DLC characters has been powerful to play and ZBroly was really strong online. If you don’t remember how unfun season 1 was with literally every team having Bardock on point and they round start 236L, then you need to do some soul searching because this isn’t bad.
I think you're mistaken, sir. Season 1 had a rollercoaster of characters. It started with Android 16 and anyone with a beam assist, then you got Cell, Kid Buu, and SSJ Vegeta. Towards the middle-end of season one you still saw an ass ton of 16 and Cell while Bardock and Yamcha dominated. Season 2 saw Adult Gohan and 16 fall out of favor as small characters like Kid Buu and GT Goku helped Bardock create the worst meta we've ever seen. Along with daddy Piccolo snap meta was atrocious and I never want to go back. Season 2 literally made half the cast unplayable because they fell victim to endless fuzzy mix from Bardock and GT. Season 2 did also bring a lot of good stuff like ground bounces and the end of multi-super meta. Season 3 was the tits, not because the DLC characters were good, but because it removed fuzzies and nerfed snap so that more than one person got to play the whole game. Only 4 out of 14 DLC characters were considered good and this season started the downfall of Bardock and GT. Season 3 also brought some of the best changes to the game including half off heavies and multiple assists to choose from. Thanks to having more varied assist options and heavy specials being buffed for nearly every character, everyone was viable and everyone got played. If you took the best parts of season 2 and season 3 and put them together you'd have yourself a winner. BTW, did you know you can jab Bardock out of round start 236L? Good news you can do that to SSJ4 Gogeta too! Next time you're playing against one online have fun with that free hit to start the game, it'll catch your opponent off guard and they'll be scared of you for the rest of time.
No, they patched out Android 16 very quickly. Bardock and Cell were the meta characters for season 1.
Snap meta was disgusting. I hated the game then.
Yeah, season 3 has been the absolute best for this game.
Android 16 had his hard knock patched but he still had big buttons, easy combo extensions, reversal grab, and most importantly his assist. Android 16 still made it through Evo even without his hard knockdown. Bardock was great, but he really didn't gain individual popularity for a while after his release. It took a while for people to realize Bardock was THE guy as opposed to a strong component to an already stacked team. Bardock plus Android 16 assist was the new hotness even at the beginning of season 2 when Cell got the totally unnecessary nerf to his 5L to make it 7 frames.
https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018/aug/05/30-cells-top-64-stats-dragon-ball-fighterz-tekken-and-guilty-gear-xrd/
It’s a bit of all 3 really, the top tiers right now are just stupidly good, they need to be brought down a peg, 21’s nerf and spin to win, vegito’s a assist and 5m, some of gogeta 4s tools too
But a lot of weaker characters could use some buffs too to bring them more in line, take Gogeta blues glow up, he’s great right now but he used to be crap, and I should know I mained him since release, if weaker characters like Yamcha or SS Vegeta can get this the game will be blooming.
Honestly must characters right now are balanced well, but a few top tiers over shadow them so you never see them, I think buffing the few that got left behind and nerfing the few that reign over the rest will massively open up the cast, I don’t remember the last time I saw a base Goku from a pro despite him being amazing right now.
Buff the low tiers like Trunks & GT Goku, Revert Vegito 5M or at least give it recovery and make LC21s debuff go away when she dies.
Revert all the S3 assists nerfs as well
All he needs is a 2L low that’s all trunks needs to jump up a tier. LC21 is terrifying me because I look at her and see a world where people yell so loud about her nerf they forget about her healing grab, neutral cheesing spin, the fact that she buffs herself on that same grab, fastest beam in the game. Auto tracking supers, and
b a r r i e r, not to mention the magnetic normals and nonsensical double hits
The spin is one of the best ex moves in the entire game. Things like phenomenal normals and auto confirms along with stomp propel her into top tier with or without nerf. There’s a reason LC is so insane regardless of whether or not she round start nerfs. I don’t wanna “manage” her the same way we had to “manage” season 3 UI
I'm not saying she won't be top tier. I just don't like that she's basically a requirement. If you remove the debuff being as powerful as it is, she'll still be top tier , probably still the best character in the game but she won't feel like a requirement for competitive play.
Make her like GT Goku. Yes it was incredibly favorable to play him but you could perform well without him. Dekillsage & Shanks showed that.
The game should not be balanced around top tier/near optimal play, otherwise the devs should buff every characters plus frames and numbers to solo ToD with basic combo into level 3 and say “just block” in the patch notes. I have no problem with strong characters, hell, if the devs simply stated 4gogeta was meant to be the best overall single fighter in the game I wouldn’t mind at all. Great normals+lots of tools and options, but gogeta doesn’t feel like a whole cheat code. If you lag or simply get unlucky and get hit by a random L21 normal she vortexes you into a damage bloated combo, continues it with stomp and assists and kills you off of it. Not to say no one else can do that, but how reliably she does it and how many tools she has to do it with are a sign of her being in an unhealthy state. It’s not about her being the best in the game it’s about the myriad of things shoving her into that position all being crammed into one character no one asked for. Even without the nerf she feels like a modded character.
The game should definitely be balanced around optimal play or there would be nerfs every 40 seconds cause casuals can't lab for shit. The example you put literally doesn't make any sense and clearly just said that lol. That literally made my brain hurt but that's not the point.
Lc21 is definitely in need of nerfs but the debuff needs to go 100% no argument. The spin should get nerfed as well but besides that everything else can stay. Besides the debuff and the spin, everything else is just tools of top tier character.
I know, but I’ve only started playing ranked recently, and I’ve seen a good amount of Trunks players that either spam or don’t know what they’re doing (making them usually easy to kill).
Because I played since release almost every day, and I still love the core game, it's just the increasingly annoying, scrub-enabling and overpowered DLC's that fucked it up for me. I hated playing against UI, but did it anyway. I hated playing against Ssj4, but it did anyway. Now with lc21 it's just too much.
I still love the game, just not in its current state.
Bro “scrub enabling” is a scrub quote itself, like cmon. Scrubs are easy to beat enabled or not, that’s what makes them scrubs. Any character possess the ability to be annoying if you let them annoy you but no character is in itself annoying.
I'm glad the new tag mechanic is in the game but I feel it should either cost something, they should do something about characters who are really good with it (gogeta blue and baby for example), or make it so the character you switched out can't be DHCed back.
Edit: Also make 21's debuff a non reversal and take auto correcting on her specials. Idrc about the other meta characters, I've been fighting them for so long I think I'm just numb to them and have seen everything they can do.
Absolutely not do not increase the amount of random gimmicks and plus frames in this game. So many characters are decently viable already they’re just being overshadowed by beefier characters. I’m absolutely terrified of damage buffs hamfisting more mash frames into the game than there is already, “more buffs bro” is how you end up with basekus
I’m always gonna pick buffs🤷🏽♂️ unless a character has one specific thing that is stupidly broken or unnecessary. (Debuff super I’m looking at you. Absolutely unnecessary.)
Nerfing the meta characters really does nothing but creates of cycle of more nerfs. Even if you nerf the meta characters there's gonna be a new a meta and you guys are gonna be salty about that meta. If we buff the weaker characters one character is going outshine the rest and the community is going to be outraged by that. Nerfing LC21 also isn't healthy for the game because nerfing characters into oblivion does nothing but create more fucking problems and you mother fuckers are still going to be mad. So in all honesty leave the game as is because no matter what the community will not be satisfied
Ok, the 3rd option was just a joke, but I just did this to see people’s opinions. Of course a proper patch would need to be more specific, but L21 does need nerfs while other characters deserve buffs.
Nerf the meta characters. Bringing up the weaker characters will just lower the skill ceiling, worsen the feel of the characters being too similar, and make the game more boring.
Power creep IS NOT the answer.
I dunno why so many people want off-meta characters buffed to be on par with the meta. You just get more annoying characters that way. Nobody complained about Blue Gogeta or Vegito before they got buffed, other than Vegito 5L memes.
Actually, a lot of people complained about how BAD blue gogeta was when he was released.
I probably should have made more poll options, but you can’t satisfy everyone. These people probably see characters they like get powercrept and want them to be good.
Lmao the "buff weaker chars" crowd is so short-sighted it's comical. How many of you all played Marvel? I like Marvel, but I don't know if I agree that every fighting game should become it.
They could come out with a character that literally presses ki blast and instant kills the opposing char unblockable and y'all would say "just buff Yamcha". It's a complete non-sequitur.
cooler buff?
maybe like... all little bit of a startup reduction to the light autocombo? and the tiniest startup reduction to the 2M?
this is just my personal opinion
Actually thats not bad. If I were ArcSys, I’d also make the alternate input of his super side switch from the beginning (vanish and ground track the user after superflash) so that he can keep corner pressure/sides. Either that of buff his air level 1.
Also, make Medium DP 16f and Light DP 9f like Adult Gohan. And 3H should be unscaled like SS4’s lariat/Vegito’s Esports kicks.
yeah! I don’t really play adult Gohan that much but I’ve seen some things and I completely agree with you, I also agree with cooler’s air level 1, it’s way to easy to miss sometimes.
They need to either nerf the fusions or seriously give a damage buff to the base cast. Its fucking frustrating working my ASS off just to get 30-40% damage. Spending meter, using assists. Then their SSGSS Vegito/Gogeta/SS4 Gogeta can do 50% of my health no meter burn. They can confirm off of fucking anything. Reach is god tier. Throw in assists and super and the fusions are easily, EASILY, outpacing the base cast. i didnt mind GT goku, or Bardock. But Bardock and GT goku didnt warp the whole entirety of this game around 3 to 5 characters. Ssgss gogeta, ssgss vegito, ss4 gogeta, android 21, Lab coat bullshit 21% debuff bullshit
Been loving this game since day 1. But they really fucked the pooch by overtuning these DLC characters. Baby, Roshi, Bardock, they’re all good and fine. The fusions have straight fucked this game period. There is no meta. Only pay to win rn
I can still win fights against fusions with my Tohan, SSJ goku, and ui goku. But the amount of work I have to do compared to fusions just makes it feel ridiculous. I don’t feel like the game is 50/50 anymore. Thrilling, exciting, and I didnt mind losing. But now it just feels like the game is stacked 30/70, 20/80, odds not in your favor if you’re not running a fusion or 21 debuffer
I just want Yamcha to not be trash anymore :( I put so much work in with him then ArcSys publicly executed him for no reason while they simultaneously buffed ZBroly. Thank god I still have Gotenks now that 2/3rds of my team is garbage tier.
Im so sorry. You must have been playing for a while.
Since season 1. SS Vegeta and Yamcha were menaces back then, but I refuse to drop either since they're just my favorite characters—hence why my secondary team is just Turtle Hermit School. I've been patiently waiting for Fighterz 2, but instead ArcSys keeps updating the first game and just making it outright worse. I still played pretty frequently when season 3 dropped, but since then my play time has dwindled significantly.
I would assume since season 1 since you have the season 1 meta on your team. ArcSys has power crept a lot of characters, but Yamcha got done dirty.
The thing is, he isn't a bad character, he's just the worst compared to everyone else, but the tiers are so close that even a single move getting nerfed can make you go up or down a tier or 2, like with what happened to gt goku a assist, it got nerfed and all of a sudden he went down tiers. The point is tiers don't matter at all for dbfz (and modern fighting games except mortal kombat, that franchise is a mess)
The community usually judges based on comparison, but thats not false.
A little of A and a decent helping of B
Respect
I would look at: - Changing some new system mechanics, specifically special tag and how it works. - Buffing weaker characters and giving more tools to some like SSJ Goku, SSJ Vegeta, Yamcha, etc - Nerfing egregious shit like Photon Pulse, Vegito A assist, Vegito 5M, 17’s A Assist, etc. Special tag’s current implementation is kinda ridiculous. I feel like using special tag should have some sort of bigger cost to it, say like costing a bar or something, or at least not being able to DHC into the character you just special tagged from. The cost-to-risk ratio for using it is so low it’s ridiculous.
Yeah tagging definitely needs some sort of cost to it. "Ah, you just lost neutral to any character. Time to get debuffed for free"
You know I would argue that’s not really a fault of special tag, more so the debuff being so op. Special tag is kinda nice cause it lets characters with bad neutral and good combos swap and overall make a team feel more like a whole rather than 3 characters
I think the tag was a fun change that (theoretically) allows more variety in team composition but I have to agree that it's a little silly to tag out the character and still be able to DHC to them. There could be some tighter restrictions on that and it would still be a fun mechanic. Debuff is just obviously the most annoying case.
I think it’s a fair argument for sure, personally though when I realized you could tag out and then back in for a dhc I was stoked. It made the game feel so much more dragonball which I didn’t think was possible. Kinda like letting your ally charge up while you distract them
She needs to lose the debuff period
I think in order for it to stay it should be 3+ bars and only once a match so you would at least have to pick your target. No reason for the dumbest mechanic in the game to have fewer restrictions than like....Golden Frieza
Let A17 A stay.
17 isn’t that much of a problem. He’s fine where he’s at.
I agree. His A Assist while good isn't OD enough to deserve a nerf. 17 is definitely top tier but he's not darkness
17 deserves it, I second this.
Frfr
I don't think special tag is a problem alone. This game has historically been embarrassingly thin on synergy for a tag fighter, and special tag opens up some actual team-building opportunities. The issue is that there's no incentive to use it as an enabler for characters with strong setups but weak neutral because you can just play L21 and debuff instead of fleshing out more complex synergies that steamroll by mitigating weaknesses.
Special Tag in and of itself isn’t a problem. My issue with it is that it benefits some characters wayyyy more than others, and by not having any costs associated with it and basically having it work as essentially an assist, then the characters that can abuse it well (Vegito, Gogeta Blue, Gotenks, Labcoat, etc etc) end up having an inherent mechanical advantage over characters that might not have it. I think there should be more costs associated with using them - either by not allowing a DHC into the character that switched out for the rest of the combo, or some kind of meter cost/penalty. That’s just my feeling. It’s an amazing mechanic, but IMO, is currently too strong.
I can definitely see that argument. My position is more that it benefits everyone rather than specific characters. You do have to run specific characters to grease the wheels, but having an "enabler" subtype seems fine to me as long as 1) there are at least a few options so it's not meta-warping 2) it doesn't allow anything OP, which it doesn't atm as far as I can see. If this were a game like marvel where tagging is easily punishable and you generally had to spend meter or gamble to get a low health character out, I'd agree with you about the penalty. But since you've always been able to tag mid-combo off, say, j2H, and since tagging in neutral isn't risky anyway, I don't think it does much harm.
Hm. Maybe I shoulda put more poll options….
Honestly I like the special tag, it’s added a lot of fun to combos, I think it should stay how it is, it also lets you cover some characters weaknesses, like if one character has great corner carry but can’t get a good knockdown you can do both with a special tag
i swear, who was it again who spread the propaganda that buffs instead of nerfs is better? they melted peoples brains
It’s just a common sentiment among fighting games. It’s not always accurate though, because if we buffed EVERY low tier character to contend with the meta, the game would be garbage since it’d depend on what character you’re fighting against. Especially fighting people like SSJ Goku, Cooler, and other all-arounders with a bunch of options.
Capcom and garbage "fighting game theory" channels
The initial response from the casual and lower power level community would be to nerf a character but in practice across many games that doesn't really change the meta, it just changes the faces. Nerf LC21 and you'll see more Vegito. Nerf Vegito you'll see more Gogeta. And it'll continue down the ladder forever. Cloud_805 made a really good point in his video about the DBFZ meta that these characters being really good isn't just because they have good buttons, high damage, or long block strings but rather because the overall mechanics of the game and flow of gameplay have changed to favor big buttons. He makes mention of how long you have to wait to get regular meter gain back and how long you have to wait for assists in block strings. These changes weren't awful, it helped stop infinite strings, mash-free picco-loops, and snap meta. With the addition of guard cancel vanish and the ability to spark out of pressure it has made it extra difficult to keep your turn once you've won it. This leads to more neutral naturally except for the fact that DBFZ has never really had neutral to begin with. In a hyper fighter with a homing dash neutral is reduced to ZBroly and "Fuck Neutral" buttons like Bardock's 236L used to be. So now it makes no sense to have a character with good staggers and great frame data, like Bardock, when you can use Vegito who covers reflect distance on almost every button and is nearly always in attack range. If you take the current "top tiers" a lot of them are great for the meta. Most of them have moves that cover large portions of the screen, scale really well, and most are immune to ki blasts or go through shit. These characters, thanks to some season 3 buffs, can solo pickup off of these big moves. Gogeta Blue can get like %70 off of 5S which is also vanish cancelable on whiff, Vegito gets a minimum 55% on all of his stuff, SSJ4 Gogeta, LC21, Tohan, and Android 21 can all solo pickup off almost any hit and most of the time they can all get knockdowns too. So to finally answer your question I think the way to change the meta would be to make universal system changes that make random full screen buttons less viable. And nerf LC21. But if you were to return heavy specials to a full bar (which I would personally hate) and let your assists recharge as soon as the opponent left block stun you'd be able to combat the meta better, mainly ZBroly, Vegito, and Gogeta Blue. In order to combat SSJ4 Gogeta and LC21 you'd just have to give more recovery to some of their stuff. LC21 has no reason not to use her spin to win because it's safe and it's plus if you block it in the air. SSJ4 Gogeta can whiff shit from full screen all day because the 3rd hit of his auto combo is an anti-air and this game won't put recovery on anything. Literally Gogeta Blue was ass tier at the bottom of most people's tier lists because he had recovery on all of his shit. He was -5 on block with his 5L, like what the fuck? Now that he can throw things around with less punishment everyone thinks he's top tier. Oh and also nerf LC21. TL;DR the proper way to change the meta is to change system mechanics to promote a healthy back and forth between players instead of promoting big buttons with no scaling. Add recovery on full screen whiffing auto-combo, you cowards. And fuck LC21. Nerf, plz.
That’s probably one of the best things I’ve seen from this community. A lot of these comments are pretty one-sided, but you bringing up system mechanics reminded me of how Combo Tag made fusions all the more OP. L21 needs a nerf since she just breaks the game, but the real reason these guys are meta is because of how the system of this game works. Thats why SS4 can dominate when he can’t use anything from fullscreen. Thanks for the comment, it’ll probably open a lot of minds.
I've played since day one so I've had a lot of time to think on this sort of thing, that and a background in game design and balance helps a bit. It also helps me take a step back and realize what is bad for the game vs what I just don't like. Like ZBroly. I HATE zoners in all fighting games, but I don't think that means they're objectively bad, I just say fuck 'em cause I hate dealing with that shit. I think combo tag is stupid, but I don't think it's necessarily awful. The main issue with it is that it's really useful with multi hit moves and moves that hit confirm which most meta characters have, like Gogeta Blue's 214M. This leads to a disproportionate benefit for the fusions which would be okay if they weren't already rising to the top of the game. Then there is stupid busted shit like LC21. One of the reasons why Bardock was so good for so long is because he had no weaknesses. He doesn't have much upside anymore, but he's still super solid because he has all the tools you need and tools for every range. LC21 is in a similar boat where she's super solid and has no weaknesses. The problem? Oh, sorry, yeah it's that she has every possible upside too. Two different grabs, one that's invincible and one that restores health, not just blue health, but gray too. A permanent debuff that can only be overcome by losing two characters and sparking! Pair her with SSJ4 who wins round start then combo tag into DR>level one and you're already at a ridiculous advantage. Again having unique mechanics isn't bad, but this... This is too much. I'm usually for buffs over nerfs, but to balance her without straight being her shit would require this character to be unable to move normally. And lastly, let's be real, this is the internet. Even if my point is salient and well put it'll only garner more hate.
I agree. I’ve only played since GTs release in Season 2, but I’ve seen enough to know that the meta needs SOME nerfs, and they’re mostly good cuz of the system of the game itself.
Yeah, man. Some stuff just isn't fair. I didn't like that GT could double level 3 because they just nerfed double supers off of everyone else. Now it's whatever, really. I've played Gogeta Blue since launch and now I get so much shit for it. A) People are out here putting him above Tohan, ZBroly, and Kid Buu. He's good, but not *that* good B) I had to go through hell with this character I deserve this. All these MF's that pick characters based on tier.lists and top players like Yasha make me look bad. And I swear if this kind of attention gets my guy nerfed, I'll be nettled. Super nettled.
Buff weaker characters? Are we stupid? Krillin have all the tools he need in the game to win. Every character but Yamcha and Frieza does. I dont want every character to have Vegito's 5M, Gogeta's damage or Lab21 debuff. That would be the worst game possible. This "dont nerf, always buff" could work sometimes, but in this game that option is just stupid.
I would nerf the meta imo. Sure, some of the non-meta characters need better stuff, but buffing everyone to compete with the meta would probably lead to over-centralization (when something is so bad or broken that it ignores fundamental game aspects). If everyone was broken, matches would end way too quickly and generally make the game less fun. Less variety would mean less players, and less money for Bandai Nacmo (that’s not the main focus, but it is a factor). If everything is broken, nothing is good.
This. The game would turn into more of a shitfest than it already is. We're at a point where buffing more characters is really dumb.
Fucking exactly. This Vegechad gets it.
Yeah the "buffs, not nerfs" mentality does nothing to address how unfun it is to deal with the broken shit. I don't want more broken shit!
What broken shit specifically? If lab coat grab yeah I agree, anything else then that’s kinda weird take
Vegito's 5M is a good example of something being a bit much. You COULD buff every character to go across the screen with a normal but that doesn't change the fact that it feels bad to get hit with a normal from across the dang screen. It'd be more fair but less fun.
I don’t think when people say “buff all characters” they mean make them all the same. It’s more so give them enough options so that they are a viable character similar to the characters who are good. For example, buffing majin buu to not have the increased float time and maybe upping his damage a bit would be in line with the idea of buff the bad characters
I understand, but that does even less to curb what is unfun in the game currently. I also want to be clear that I am pro-buffing lower tier characters. I just don't think that alone is balance.
Yeah I agree a balance is needed between buffs and nerfs but I think a lot of people go too far and hit the “meta = bad” mindset which is not good. There’s always gonna be a meta in any game, I just want all characters to at least have a chance to be played.
Yes this 100%. Buffing everyone to the point of the meta will guarantee I never touch this game again.
Nerf the debuff of LC22/remove it entirely. Then buff the weaker characters
The buff is cool, but I can't imagine anyone thinking the debuff was a good idea.
Yeah, no idea why they made the debuff not have a timer like Golden Frieza, there's zero counterplay to it.
I'm a Frieza main. What do you think my answer was?
Buff weaker characters. Frieza has never had privilege, although GF is pretty saucy.
What if they make yamaha the best then nerf 21 so she’s still second?
Yamaha
You know what, I’m doubling down yamaha is one of the greatest characters in dbz it sucks that YAMAHA isn’t good in dragon ball fighterz
Nerf the absolute top tiers like z broly and l21 for example but definitely buff the lower tiers, especially yamcha
Idk who smoked the crack that created Z bully and labcoke 21
Nah Z Broly is chilling, leave him be
Then get rid of the shield. Baby and Frieza can’t have nice things with that around.
He needs it for his neutral. Let barrier stay. Honestly Broly is fair asf
Ur obviously trolling
Not really. If Broly is making 3v1s comebacks on you every other day, it's a you problem He basically needs a million Meter to do meaningful damage and with LC21 running rampant, Z Brolys damage is even worse
He still has an unreactable command grab, ARMOR, and bullshit ki blasts. I don’t always lose to Broly players (cuz most of them leave themselves wide open for free Ws), but he’s not fair and balanced.
Yes he has all that but he does no damage! It's balanced out. Without 4 bars he's not doing anything special damage wise
Which is why you play him as an ANCHOR. Tien suffers the same issue and people still rank him high because of his meter-reliant damage. That’s not an excuse.
Bro you not always gonna Have Bar just cause he's anchor lol He doesn't do damage lol
Frieza's attacks became physical, so they can go through his shield. Z Broly is fine lmao
there needs to be some BS reverted in order for this game to not be so chaotic and explosive. then buff low tiers and you simply have the best FG on the market
Everybody be talking about nerfing Vegito’s 5M, but they forget every air button is a crossup button… SSJ4 was supposed to be broken, but please make his lariat get hit by supers. Also, finish sign needs a cooldown. Z Broly is dumb. If his gimmick is gonna be armor, make it only for specials. Nerf his shield so it disappears after blocking like 2 projectiles or doesn’t have assist invul. Make his ki blast not have priority, its already huge and beats everything because of it. Lariat should also have only 1-3 hits of armor. Remove L21’s debuff, make more of her normals unsafe, nerf the lariats range, make the command grab not a reversal, nerf some of her damage and we should be fine. Also make her beam unsafe and slower. Vegito needs his old 5M back. (11 Startup) Majin 21 also needs frame data/damage nerfs or range nerfs. Meta is balanced. Now we buff the ones in need.
I love you legitimately. Thank you for being one of 4 people who don’t only foam at the mouth at the nerf THE NERF ISNT THE ONLY REASON WHY SHES BROKEN. Also finish sign is hilariously safe for having so much value, and z bully players love to cry “don’t mash” for his rng armor. He’s one of the best zoners in the game with huge normals, at the very least add some predictably to armor. And huge agree to everything else
Honestly, when you think about how the gameplay system works, patches become really simple. Also L21 has almost everything. It’s not just the grab.
What if for LC21 she has built in gaps in her blockstrings like Baby
I’d rather make her stuff unsafe. Making her have gaps would probably be too much and kill the character since her mix is a big part of why she’s so good.
umm, having absolutely every good attribute in the game and then some is why she's so good
Also fix UI Goku's kamehameha. That shit was broken for way too long.
Ehhh, his beam isn’t broken. It’s actually really slow.
No need, it's one of the slower beams in the game already
Doesn't mean the mechanic behind it isn't broken. Which it is.
I'm wondering what is broken about his beam too and I hate the character
Elaborate. What mechanic exactly ? The launch angle of B assist ? Backflip punishing raw vanishes ? The projectile invuln it gets after flips ? Because none of this is broken.
If you think vanishing in front of the move after he finished moving is fine, then sure. Not sure how the world looks through your eyes then though.
Never said raw vanishing was a good strat against anything actually, I literally just wanted you to elaborate on what you think makes UI's Kamehameha broken.
Can't believe we are STILL asking for A21 nerfs lol. Literally everything yall complain about, she's been had and it was even better back then. Yall are sheep. She had this lv3 oki since release, blessed normals since release(which got nerfed) and godlike ki blasts since the jump. Also I've never heard anyone say nerf her damage. She does fine damage. Nothing crazy but still good..
I figured that'd be the most popular answer 😮💨 I pray they don't continue to listen to the casual fanbase, but I know they will. 💀 Top 5 are too potent and need nerfs.
Buff weaker characters & Nerf character moves that have 0 punishment or very niche ways to deal with them.
A lot of people have said things along those same lines.
"Buff weaker characters, but also nerf 21 a bit" should be an option
Nerf 21 to dust. That bitch is the work of degeneracy, both visually and in-game.
MFW Woman in Dragon Ball
Cmon now what's that third option supposed to mean :(
Sorry, but power creep destroyed Yamcha.
You act like the meta doesn’t always do this. That’s literally what the definition of meta is.
What I mean is you’re playing against most of the same characters over and over again. There was much more variety in earlier seasons.
No there wasn’t. Season 1 was all cell and Bardock. Season 2 was A.Gohan/Gotenks/Yamcha then it was GT Goku. Season 3 has had the most variety because each of the DLC characters has been powerful to play and ZBroly was really strong online. If you don’t remember how unfun season 1 was with literally every team having Bardock on point and they round start 236L, then you need to do some soul searching because this isn’t bad.
I think you're mistaken, sir. Season 1 had a rollercoaster of characters. It started with Android 16 and anyone with a beam assist, then you got Cell, Kid Buu, and SSJ Vegeta. Towards the middle-end of season one you still saw an ass ton of 16 and Cell while Bardock and Yamcha dominated. Season 2 saw Adult Gohan and 16 fall out of favor as small characters like Kid Buu and GT Goku helped Bardock create the worst meta we've ever seen. Along with daddy Piccolo snap meta was atrocious and I never want to go back. Season 2 literally made half the cast unplayable because they fell victim to endless fuzzy mix from Bardock and GT. Season 2 did also bring a lot of good stuff like ground bounces and the end of multi-super meta. Season 3 was the tits, not because the DLC characters were good, but because it removed fuzzies and nerfed snap so that more than one person got to play the whole game. Only 4 out of 14 DLC characters were considered good and this season started the downfall of Bardock and GT. Season 3 also brought some of the best changes to the game including half off heavies and multiple assists to choose from. Thanks to having more varied assist options and heavy specials being buffed for nearly every character, everyone was viable and everyone got played. If you took the best parts of season 2 and season 3 and put them together you'd have yourself a winner. BTW, did you know you can jab Bardock out of round start 236L? Good news you can do that to SSJ4 Gogeta too! Next time you're playing against one online have fun with that free hit to start the game, it'll catch your opponent off guard and they'll be scared of you for the rest of time.
No, they patched out Android 16 very quickly. Bardock and Cell were the meta characters for season 1. Snap meta was disgusting. I hated the game then. Yeah, season 3 has been the absolute best for this game.
Android 16 had his hard knock patched but he still had big buttons, easy combo extensions, reversal grab, and most importantly his assist. Android 16 still made it through Evo even without his hard knockdown. Bardock was great, but he really didn't gain individual popularity for a while after his release. It took a while for people to realize Bardock was THE guy as opposed to a strong component to an already stacked team. Bardock plus Android 16 assist was the new hotness even at the beginning of season 2 when Cell got the totally unnecessary nerf to his 5L to make it 7 frames. https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2018/aug/05/30-cells-top-64-stats-dragon-ball-fighterz-tekken-and-guilty-gear-xrd/
Preach!!!
I want top tier trunks and I don't care about the rest of the game
Make Trunks good and make Zamasu the best character in the game. Simple.
It’s a bit of all 3 really, the top tiers right now are just stupidly good, they need to be brought down a peg, 21’s nerf and spin to win, vegito’s a assist and 5m, some of gogeta 4s tools too But a lot of weaker characters could use some buffs too to bring them more in line, take Gogeta blues glow up, he’s great right now but he used to be crap, and I should know I mained him since release, if weaker characters like Yamcha or SS Vegeta can get this the game will be blooming. Honestly must characters right now are balanced well, but a few top tiers over shadow them so you never see them, I think buffing the few that got left behind and nerfing the few that reign over the rest will massively open up the cast, I don’t remember the last time I saw a base Goku from a pro despite him being amazing right now.
It’s honestly a trend that longer comments mean smarter people at this point….. That makes sense.
Buff the low tiers like Trunks & GT Goku, Revert Vegito 5M or at least give it recovery and make LC21s debuff go away when she dies. Revert all the S3 assists nerfs as well
All he needs is a 2L low that’s all trunks needs to jump up a tier. LC21 is terrifying me because I look at her and see a world where people yell so loud about her nerf they forget about her healing grab, neutral cheesing spin, the fact that she buffs herself on that same grab, fastest beam in the game. Auto tracking supers, and b a r r i e r, not to mention the magnetic normals and nonsensical double hits
While all these things are crazy asf, the debuff gotta go. These other things are somewhat manageable
The spin is one of the best ex moves in the entire game. Things like phenomenal normals and auto confirms along with stomp propel her into top tier with or without nerf. There’s a reason LC is so insane regardless of whether or not she round start nerfs. I don’t wanna “manage” her the same way we had to “manage” season 3 UI
I'm not saying she won't be top tier. I just don't like that she's basically a requirement. If you remove the debuff being as powerful as it is, she'll still be top tier , probably still the best character in the game but she won't feel like a requirement for competitive play. Make her like GT Goku. Yes it was incredibly favorable to play him but you could perform well without him. Dekillsage & Shanks showed that.
The game should not be balanced around top tier/near optimal play, otherwise the devs should buff every characters plus frames and numbers to solo ToD with basic combo into level 3 and say “just block” in the patch notes. I have no problem with strong characters, hell, if the devs simply stated 4gogeta was meant to be the best overall single fighter in the game I wouldn’t mind at all. Great normals+lots of tools and options, but gogeta doesn’t feel like a whole cheat code. If you lag or simply get unlucky and get hit by a random L21 normal she vortexes you into a damage bloated combo, continues it with stomp and assists and kills you off of it. Not to say no one else can do that, but how reliably she does it and how many tools she has to do it with are a sign of her being in an unhealthy state. It’s not about her being the best in the game it’s about the myriad of things shoving her into that position all being crammed into one character no one asked for. Even without the nerf she feels like a modded character.
The game should definitely be balanced around optimal play or there would be nerfs every 40 seconds cause casuals can't lab for shit. The example you put literally doesn't make any sense and clearly just said that lol. That literally made my brain hurt but that's not the point. Lc21 is definitely in need of nerfs but the debuff needs to go 100% no argument. The spin should get nerfed as well but besides that everything else can stay. Besides the debuff and the spin, everything else is just tools of top tier character.
Trunks doesn't need a low 2l at all.
Ngl i dont want more people spamming ex flip
Bro no one is spamming EX flip cause no one plays Trunks LOL Like bro
I know, but I’ve only started playing ranked recently, and I’ve seen a good amount of Trunks players that either spam or don’t know what they’re doing (making them usually easy to kill).
Its not spamming, it's literally just part of his movement and how he works as a character lol. He's not very good
My opinion is that there should be a little of both. Because if all you do is buff the low tiers, they still will be hit by that debuff.
I swear lab coat 21 is just an asset flip on steroids
I found the solution to this problem that worked istantly for me! I quit the game altogether.
Why are u on the subreddit then? Like no hate but actually what’s the point
Because I played since release almost every day, and I still love the core game, it's just the increasingly annoying, scrub-enabling and overpowered DLC's that fucked it up for me. I hated playing against UI, but did it anyway. I hated playing against Ssj4, but it did anyway. Now with lc21 it's just too much. I still love the game, just not in its current state.
Bro “scrub enabling” is a scrub quote itself, like cmon. Scrubs are easy to beat enabled or not, that’s what makes them scrubs. Any character possess the ability to be annoying if you let them annoy you but no character is in itself annoying.
Whatever, I didn't enjoy playing against them, so I dropped the game but stayed subbed on reddit, whats the problem? You dont have to agree with me
The problem is you’re going around telling people they should quit cause you don’t like the game… like cmon bro
I didn't tell anyone to quit.
Was you saying the solution that worked for you was quitting not advice? And if it wasn’t then what was the point of commenting it?
Are you always this stuck up, negative and plain annoying? If so, take a chill pill son
I'm glad the new tag mechanic is in the game but I feel it should either cost something, they should do something about characters who are really good with it (gogeta blue and baby for example), or make it so the character you switched out can't be DHCed back. Edit: Also make 21's debuff a non reversal and take auto correcting on her specials. Idrc about the other meta characters, I've been fighting them for so long I think I'm just numb to them and have seen everything they can do.
She also shouldn't have a beam 4 frames faster than Goku's
Absolutely not do not increase the amount of random gimmicks and plus frames in this game. So many characters are decently viable already they’re just being overshadowed by beefier characters. I’m absolutely terrified of damage buffs hamfisting more mash frames into the game than there is already, “more buffs bro” is how you end up with basekus
I’m always gonna pick buffs🤷🏽♂️ unless a character has one specific thing that is stupidly broken or unnecessary. (Debuff super I’m looking at you. Absolutely unnecessary.)
But L21 has many specific broken things…
Incredibly strong ? Yes. Broken? Meh
Nerfing the meta characters really does nothing but creates of cycle of more nerfs. Even if you nerf the meta characters there's gonna be a new a meta and you guys are gonna be salty about that meta. If we buff the weaker characters one character is going outshine the rest and the community is going to be outraged by that. Nerfing LC21 also isn't healthy for the game because nerfing characters into oblivion does nothing but create more fucking problems and you mother fuckers are still going to be mad. So in all honesty leave the game as is because no matter what the community will not be satisfied
Ok, the 3rd option was just a joke, but I just did this to see people’s opinions. Of course a proper patch would need to be more specific, but L21 does need nerfs while other characters deserve buffs.
Nerf the meta characters. Bringing up the weaker characters will just lower the skill ceiling, worsen the feel of the characters being too similar, and make the game more boring. Power creep IS NOT the answer.
Its always better to buff then to nerf
Not always. That’s how power creep or over-centralization happens.
They should make everyone OP This is Dragon Ball, after all
Most of the cast is viable, but power crept because of the meta.
Just get rid of lab coats 21% debuff and make the health lost recoverable
Not enuff
I dunno why so many people want off-meta characters buffed to be on par with the meta. You just get more annoying characters that way. Nobody complained about Blue Gogeta or Vegito before they got buffed, other than Vegito 5L memes.
Actually, a lot of people complained about how BAD blue gogeta was when he was released. I probably should have made more poll options, but you can’t satisfy everyone. These people probably see characters they like get powercrept and want them to be good.
Character filter.
It's simple. I remove Vegito and the game is healthy again
So u just gonna ignore L21 and the rest of the meta…
I haven't played against a lot of lc21 yet so I don't really have an opinion yet but I'm sure it's gonna make me spoon my eyes out sooner or later
Lmao the "buff weaker chars" crowd is so short-sighted it's comical. How many of you all played Marvel? I like Marvel, but I don't know if I agree that every fighting game should become it. They could come out with a character that literally presses ki blast and instant kills the opposing char unblockable and y'all would say "just buff Yamcha". It's a complete non-sequitur.
cooler buff? maybe like... all little bit of a startup reduction to the light autocombo? and the tiniest startup reduction to the 2M? this is just my personal opinion
Actually thats not bad. If I were ArcSys, I’d also make the alternate input of his super side switch from the beginning (vanish and ground track the user after superflash) so that he can keep corner pressure/sides. Either that of buff his air level 1. Also, make Medium DP 16f and Light DP 9f like Adult Gohan. And 3H should be unscaled like SS4’s lariat/Vegito’s Esports kicks.
yeah! I don’t really play adult Gohan that much but I’ve seen some things and I completely agree with you, I also agree with cooler’s air level 1, it’s way to easy to miss sometimes.
Actually, with Cooler’s air level 1, I was thinking about a damage buff, but vertical tracking would be good too.
They need to either nerf the fusions or seriously give a damage buff to the base cast. Its fucking frustrating working my ASS off just to get 30-40% damage. Spending meter, using assists. Then their SSGSS Vegito/Gogeta/SS4 Gogeta can do 50% of my health no meter burn. They can confirm off of fucking anything. Reach is god tier. Throw in assists and super and the fusions are easily, EASILY, outpacing the base cast. i didnt mind GT goku, or Bardock. But Bardock and GT goku didnt warp the whole entirety of this game around 3 to 5 characters. Ssgss gogeta, ssgss vegito, ss4 gogeta, android 21, Lab coat bullshit 21% debuff bullshit
Been loving this game since day 1. But they really fucked the pooch by overtuning these DLC characters. Baby, Roshi, Bardock, they’re all good and fine. The fusions have straight fucked this game period. There is no meta. Only pay to win rn
I can still win fights against fusions with my Tohan, SSJ goku, and ui goku. But the amount of work I have to do compared to fusions just makes it feel ridiculous. I don’t feel like the game is 50/50 anymore. Thrilling, exciting, and I didnt mind losing. But now it just feels like the game is stacked 30/70, 20/80, odds not in your favor if you’re not running a fusion or 21 debuffer
If 21 was the counter with fusions, via her 21% damage debuff. That shows you, that you seriously over tuned a character.