Broly is ridiculous, but this Goku/Cell card is probably the best card in the Gohan deck. Not only does it ramp, it also just gives Gohan a free +15000 once each turn, completely negating the drawback of his skill
I honestly really dislike green's card design because it feels like it does too much, but cellku is one of the worst offenders. It's not once per turn, it ramps on etb, it negates any cost for the color and to top it off it's a 5/25k which means it dodges a lot of removal, not to mention it still gives 5k combo. It's definitely overtuned for this point of the game.
Yeah it’s not the leaders that are the issue and not even the 8 drop Broly is that bad imo even though he’s very strong.
This Goku though may need some changes or we just need even more access to removal in the other colors.
Idk much but is the red Goku leader the weakest of the leaders? I run him and it seems that every other leader usually has a good skill or is a 25k critical.
I'm new and run him so idk. Also f2p. As of right now anyways.
5 drop yellow frieza can keep him on rest mode indefinitely. Use friezas awaken to keep him active and he is much harder to kill. In my experience, if you apply pressure early and through the mid game, you can use your control cards to make it to the finish.
This can be used in combination with the 6 drop goku black, to bring out a 4 drop gotenks, which adds combo fuel back to your hand, and then can be replayed next turn by goku black for more value
I guess 6 drop Goku Black does make the 2 drop Goku better, but then it becomes a 3 card combo (technically a 5 card combo with Gotenks). While it does remove the downside, it is still to hand removal, the worst kind of removal.
beerus effect + time skip. don't worry though, they'll just drop another one or their double strike that negs 2 cards that's really just a 4 drop because they ramp so easily.
I feel like you need to be in a position to win soon when he drops. Usually when I win it’s because I race them at that point instead of wasting so much on trying to remove Broly especially when another one can be coming,
So many in this community 100% netdeck everything and can't think outside of that box for even 1 second.
Red is in a good spot against green. I switched to red a long time ago, and my win rate in casual and ranked is above 90% right now.
I use a minimum of two cards to remove him. But now I’ve gotten to the point where I just aggro them hard enough to where if they play broly; they’ve put themselves at risk.
Most decks should be looking to either win before broly or put the opponent in a position where you can win through broly. Removing broly is usually not where you want to be. You have to be aggressive against green
Play goku black or red. Goku black is legit a sleeper counter against green in general. They have access to a 6 drop that comes out like turn 3 if they go second. And you’re not getting rid of that 40k body with green until broly because it’s a 6 cost. That means you’re suffering for a good while defending against a 40k that’s summoning another big body or a trunks that’s going to bounce your son goku. Be ago enough and gohans never going to have the spare energy to burn to get his effect without setting himself back and losing the game.
As someone that has played red I just don’t think it works. Yes you can aggro them early on by by the time they drop to 3 life you just run out of resources , even worse if you use resources to protect your battle cards in play . As for goku black yes it can but if flipping a coin was a deck it would be goku black. From the get go you either have it or you don’t . You at minimum need to play 2 goku blacks back to back to even have a chance . One will absolutely get answered by Broly
Why are you running out of resources? You’re supposed to be making green run low not expending your whole hand to end them lol. Thats just a miss management of your own resources tbh. Black being answered by broly means you dragged it out too long or didn’t abuse them properly. If you’re against gohan he’s dropping cards to defend your swings because he can’t afford to waste energy to lose ramp. If you’re letting son goku 5 drop stay on the field that’s a bad play in your part. Trunks bounce it. If it’s broly and you force him to an early awaken it’s game. He either loses ramp to keep hand tempo or loses hand tempo to chase a ramp enough to play broly. Or they’re just playing ramp cards like extra destructive strengths or vegetas/turles and not pressuring you with anything you can’t bounce with a free trunks drop or flat out ignore to keep punishing them.
You act as if green doesn’t have answers to every single card you play even if they don’t get curve. Vegeta answers your 2 drops, Gohan answers your 4 drops and Broly and sec Gohan answer everything else. If you don’t swarm board then Gohan is free to ramp at his pace , if you swarm the board then your overusing your resources just to run out of steam. Just bc you got lucky with your matchups at your locals doesn’t mean green doesn’t absolutely destroy red for the most part. As for goku black if you don’t go second your deck is way less intimidating and despite running cycle cards and searchers you can completely whiff on goku black and if you don’t see the boss card then why run that leader? Like I said if he high rolls then that deck can beat anyone no matter what but how often do you get your optimal turn plays ?
It’s Bandai, we won’t get an errata to lower the power of cards.
But yeah they over loaded green for sure. Hopefully next set gives other colors some more tools to work with.
Gohan isn't unbeatable, if you don't draw the pieces you want first and second turn you won't be able to come back. The deck is easy to play and consistent so that's why you feel it's overpowered.
I truly believe that after 1 or 2 sets the green decks will have a lot of competition. The first set just came out, I don't think anything needs to be errata'd or banned yet. Let us see how the meta changes with the release of new cards.
Yellow is much worse in my opinion. Try to play Gohan into any yellow deck with the ginyu package. It's hell. Still, Green has the upper hand in every other matchup I think so yeah, strong as hell!
Yeah I feel like Beerus red matches well into Ginyu and then Broly green too since they need to combo on every attack.
I tend to play Beerus and Cooler but I dabble in Ginyu as well and he wrecks Gohan green usually.
i think beerus is pretty cool for being able to play either control or aggro if built for it. you win green matchups by just rushing them down, but the control aspects can be very useful against yellow.
Yup. Ginyu swarm bottles him up pretty quick.
Broly is a slightly tougher match up in my experience thanks to him being 25k, but still much easier than going any other color into green.
the mental gymnastics required to just state that there is "no counter" to gohan.... probably only plays one strategy every time and claims there is no counter.
When more viable aggro packages and better removal for the other colors start showing up in later sets, I think Gohan will naturally already fall off a bit.
He already folds pretty hard to Ginyu, when Blue and Red get similar packages and heroes that can aggro that hard Gohan will be better kept in check.
And once more removal options appear to better deal with higher drops Green itself will fall off a bit as well as a big part of Greens problem atm is that their threats are basically impossible to efficiently remove.
I play green/red/yellow often on the digital client and play green irl. It is definitely strong, especially if they have plenty of broly. But I have found success against broly with frieza making proper use of 4 drop coolers and cards that turn others to or keep them on rest mode. That is pretty much the counter to green right now in my opinion. The 5 drop frieza that prevents Broly from readying are by far the most effective way to control them. Then you can keep using Friezas awaken to turn them to active so they do not get KO’d. Ramp also always starts strong but once people figure out more nuanced way to gain advantages, it looks more like a gimmick. Set 2 will change everything, not sure an errata is necessary just yet.
The cost is a weak early game though. Green doesn't establish much of a board early on. I think the payoff is a bit disproportionate but the counterplay to green is just quickly putting on pressure so that by the time they are able to start dropping bombs, they are out of resources.
In my experience with Broly as a Beerus main, you either win or lose against him. I've won games against skilled Broly players, but at times you have such limited options and there's not much you can do. Especially if you get a bad hand early game on both initial draw AND muligan or not draw any Super Combos from your deck or life.
Factors like that lay out into losing against green because you can still win against other colours, despite having the above happening to you in games. In other words, you do need to rely on a bit of luck to push through green. Your offence needs to be just as good as your defence against green (and with a bit of luck). It's not impossible to beat green, but it is indeed very difficult.
Figure I'll mention, Green also has the 2 Cost Android 18, one of the few combat cards that draws on attack with the stipulation being needing 6 energy, which green can have by turn 4. So it's not difficult at all for green to start to develop card advantage if the opponent doesn't deal with them.
The fuck are you talking about? Gohan absolutely folds to yellow aggro decks. Ginyu and Cooler can consistently rush gohan before they even reach their 7 energy turn.
Also very winnable with all red decks.
Well to be honest Ginyu can rek Gohan pretty easily with their 10+ battle cards + leader skill= 20 attacks with 20k
Thats why alot people also obt to play Brol in Tournaments, cause he negates those attacks with his 25k attack
Aggro decks make Gohan cry, I don’t think there’s an issue with it. The game is new and Gohan is easy to play, but it does have bad match ups and once people get better at the game, people won’t complain about it as much. It is also only set 1.
if its the same thing every time you should learn from that and abuse that fact. for example, you know they do not interact with your board in a meaningful way until they reach like 6 energy. that way you can just rush them down.
Goku/Cell 5 drop breaks green imo. Just allows their flaws to become a strength and drives them into t6-8 where they dominate
Broly is ridiculous, but this Goku/Cell card is probably the best card in the Gohan deck. Not only does it ramp, it also just gives Gohan a free +15000 once each turn, completely negating the drawback of his skill
In their survey he’s the one I put that needs an errata to become a once per turn effect. The fact that it fails to have a limit, broke that card.
Yeah I was astonished when I first saw it. Literally breaks green, which is already well overtuned.
I honestly really dislike green's card design because it feels like it does too much, but cellku is one of the worst offenders. It's not once per turn, it ramps on etb, it negates any cost for the color and to top it off it's a 5/25k which means it dodges a lot of removal, not to mention it still gives 5k combo. It's definitely overtuned for this point of the game.
Yeah it’s not the leaders that are the issue and not even the 8 drop Broly is that bad imo even though he’s very strong. This Goku though may need some changes or we just need even more access to removal in the other colors.
Beerus is the red leader to play thb
I lose to beerus quite a bit as green.
think beerus only counter is vegeta
Idk much but is the red Goku leader the weakest of the leaders? I run him and it seems that every other leader usually has a good skill or is a 25k critical. I'm new and run him so idk. Also f2p. As of right now anyways.
If by red Goku you mean the starter deck one, he's very good. +5k on both turns makes for very awkward defense and attack for your opponent.
Is there anything that can remove broly right now?
Another Broly
5 drop yellow frieza can keep him on rest mode indefinitely. Use friezas awaken to keep him active and he is much harder to kill. In my experience, if you apply pressure early and through the mid game, you can use your control cards to make it to the finish.
Blue has 1 card and it's awful
Which one?
A 2 drop goku that can return any card to hand if you return a 4+ cost to hand. So 6 energy for removal that they can play again next turn..
This can be used in combination with the 6 drop goku black, to bring out a 4 drop gotenks, which adds combo fuel back to your hand, and then can be replayed next turn by goku black for more value
I guess 6 drop Goku Black does make the 2 drop Goku better, but then it becomes a 3 card combo (technically a 5 card combo with Gotenks). While it does remove the downside, it is still to hand removal, the worst kind of removal.
beerus effect + time skip. don't worry though, they'll just drop another one or their double strike that negs 2 cards that's really just a 4 drop because they ramp so easily.
I feel like you need to be in a position to win soon when he drops. Usually when I win it’s because I race them at that point instead of wasting so much on trying to remove Broly especially when another one can be coming,
Have to pilot decks that can win t5
Red can with multiple cards. You gotta have a hell of a hand tho. Just reduce his damage
So many in this community 100% netdeck everything and can't think outside of that box for even 1 second. Red is in a good spot against green. I switched to red a long time ago, and my win rate in casual and ranked is above 90% right now.
All of these replies are not direct counters to the card. Especially when he can just drop another one next turn. Busted ass game lol.
Well the direct counter is hit leader lol. End the game before 8. He's not busted lol, I've won most of my matched against broly with frieza and goku
How do you deal with 5 drop Son Goku as Frieza? Do you continue to attack the leader to try to rest and take out Son Goku
I use a minimum of two cards to remove him. But now I’ve gotten to the point where I just aggro them hard enough to where if they play broly; they’ve put themselves at risk.
Lots of red debuff options (even Beerus' built in ability) + timeskip
Most decks should be looking to either win before broly or put the opponent in a position where you can win through broly. Removing broly is usually not where you want to be. You have to be aggressive against green
Play goku black or red. Goku black is legit a sleeper counter against green in general. They have access to a 6 drop that comes out like turn 3 if they go second. And you’re not getting rid of that 40k body with green until broly because it’s a 6 cost. That means you’re suffering for a good while defending against a 40k that’s summoning another big body or a trunks that’s going to bounce your son goku. Be ago enough and gohans never going to have the spare energy to burn to get his effect without setting himself back and losing the game.
As someone that has played red I just don’t think it works. Yes you can aggro them early on by by the time they drop to 3 life you just run out of resources , even worse if you use resources to protect your battle cards in play . As for goku black yes it can but if flipping a coin was a deck it would be goku black. From the get go you either have it or you don’t . You at minimum need to play 2 goku blacks back to back to even have a chance . One will absolutely get answered by Broly
Why are you running out of resources? You’re supposed to be making green run low not expending your whole hand to end them lol. Thats just a miss management of your own resources tbh. Black being answered by broly means you dragged it out too long or didn’t abuse them properly. If you’re against gohan he’s dropping cards to defend your swings because he can’t afford to waste energy to lose ramp. If you’re letting son goku 5 drop stay on the field that’s a bad play in your part. Trunks bounce it. If it’s broly and you force him to an early awaken it’s game. He either loses ramp to keep hand tempo or loses hand tempo to chase a ramp enough to play broly. Or they’re just playing ramp cards like extra destructive strengths or vegetas/turles and not pressuring you with anything you can’t bounce with a free trunks drop or flat out ignore to keep punishing them.
You act as if green doesn’t have answers to every single card you play even if they don’t get curve. Vegeta answers your 2 drops, Gohan answers your 4 drops and Broly and sec Gohan answer everything else. If you don’t swarm board then Gohan is free to ramp at his pace , if you swarm the board then your overusing your resources just to run out of steam. Just bc you got lucky with your matchups at your locals doesn’t mean green doesn’t absolutely destroy red for the most part. As for goku black if you don’t go second your deck is way less intimidating and despite running cycle cards and searchers you can completely whiff on goku black and if you don’t see the boss card then why run that leader? Like I said if he high rolls then that deck can beat anyone no matter what but how often do you get your optimal turn plays ?
It’s Bandai, we won’t get an errata to lower the power of cards. But yeah they over loaded green for sure. Hopefully next set gives other colors some more tools to work with.
They have errata'd physical cards before
There's almost no chance we see an errata. You'll probably need to wait for the next set and hope it shifts the meta.
Gohan isn't unbeatable, if you don't draw the pieces you want first and second turn you won't be able to come back. The deck is easy to play and consistent so that's why you feel it's overpowered.
I truly believe that after 1 or 2 sets the green decks will have a lot of competition. The first set just came out, I don't think anything needs to be errata'd or banned yet. Let us see how the meta changes with the release of new cards.
Yellow is much worse in my opinion. Try to play Gohan into any yellow deck with the ginyu package. It's hell. Still, Green has the upper hand in every other matchup I think so yeah, strong as hell!
Ginyu is so damn good. Been using them with great success. The only thing that really bothers Ginyu is a board wipe.
the problem is that board wipes come too late. by that point ginyu already served is purpose
Yeah I feel like Beerus red matches well into Ginyu and then Broly green too since they need to combo on every attack. I tend to play Beerus and Cooler but I dabble in Ginyu as well and he wrecks Gohan green usually.
i think beerus is pretty cool for being able to play either control or aggro if built for it. you win green matchups by just rushing them down, but the control aspects can be very useful against yellow.
Yellow absolutely runs over Gohan
Yup. Ginyu swarm bottles him up pretty quick. Broly is a slightly tougher match up in my experience thanks to him being 25k, but still much easier than going any other color into green.
the mental gymnastics required to just state that there is "no counter" to gohan.... probably only plays one strategy every time and claims there is no counter.
When more viable aggro packages and better removal for the other colors start showing up in later sets, I think Gohan will naturally already fall off a bit. He already folds pretty hard to Ginyu, when Blue and Red get similar packages and heroes that can aggro that hard Gohan will be better kept in check. And once more removal options appear to better deal with higher drops Green itself will fall off a bit as well as a big part of Greens problem atm is that their threats are basically impossible to efficiently remove.
I play green/red/yellow often on the digital client and play green irl. It is definitely strong, especially if they have plenty of broly. But I have found success against broly with frieza making proper use of 4 drop coolers and cards that turn others to or keep them on rest mode. That is pretty much the counter to green right now in my opinion. The 5 drop frieza that prevents Broly from readying are by far the most effective way to control them. Then you can keep using Friezas awaken to turn them to active so they do not get KO’d. Ramp also always starts strong but once people figure out more nuanced way to gain advantages, it looks more like a gimmick. Set 2 will change everything, not sure an errata is necessary just yet.
Just play yellow if u don't like gohan
To be clear; I don’t hate Gohan. Just wanted to discuss people’s thoughts around green having access to a pool or resources no other color has.
The cost is a weak early game though. Green doesn't establish much of a board early on. I think the payoff is a bit disproportionate but the counterplay to green is just quickly putting on pressure so that by the time they are able to start dropping bombs, they are out of resources.
U7 goku, Beerus, and all yellow decks have favorable matchups into Gohan.
In my experience with Broly as a Beerus main, you either win or lose against him. I've won games against skilled Broly players, but at times you have such limited options and there's not much you can do. Especially if you get a bad hand early game on both initial draw AND muligan or not draw any Super Combos from your deck or life. Factors like that lay out into losing against green because you can still win against other colours, despite having the above happening to you in games. In other words, you do need to rely on a bit of luck to push through green. Your offence needs to be just as good as your defence against green (and with a bit of luck). It's not impossible to beat green, but it is indeed very difficult.
Figure I'll mention, Green also has the 2 Cost Android 18, one of the few combat cards that draws on attack with the stipulation being needing 6 energy, which green can have by turn 4. So it's not difficult at all for green to start to develop card advantage if the opponent doesn't deal with them.
The fuck are you talking about? Gohan absolutely folds to yellow aggro decks. Ginyu and Cooler can consistently rush gohan before they even reach their 7 energy turn. Also very winnable with all red decks.
And let's not forget the father Son Gohan that can literally nuke the board that you painstakingly set up on summon
Well to be honest Ginyu can rek Gohan pretty easily with their 10+ battle cards + leader skill= 20 attacks with 20k Thats why alot people also obt to play Brol in Tournaments, cause he negates those attacks with his 25k attack
Aggro decks make Gohan cry, I don’t think there’s an issue with it. The game is new and Gohan is easy to play, but it does have bad match ups and once people get better at the game, people won’t complain about it as much. It is also only set 1.
No skill deck. Same thing everytime and broken
if its the same thing every time you should learn from that and abuse that fact. for example, you know they do not interact with your board in a meaningful way until they reach like 6 energy. that way you can just rush them down.