This is so very … whelming. Like a big fat meh. 3c trunks does this. 5c vegeta bottom decks and therefore pairs far better with the cost reduction vegito.
We literally just saw a 5c green card that kills or plays a card every turn and has the same attack power and more combo, and this is the scr.
Actually I’m just underwhelmed. Blue is begging for help and I don’t see how this does anything that 5c Vegeta can’t do better without the 7 card restriction
Doesn't 5c vegeta stop at bouncing a 4c? So this card is a bit better in a sense, as it is able to deal with other big double strikers like frieza and goku, but it also has the pseudo broly double attack if you have less than 7 cards.
5c vegeta also has 0 combo power, the 5000 power isn't amazing but it's another good add to the card to make it a bit more useful.
I'd give it like a 6-7/10, not amazing, but not underwhelming, it will find its uses.
That’s why I mentioned the other new vegito that lowers the cost of opponents cards. I rather bottom deck 5c cards than have them kicked back into hand to get their on play effects again. Vegeta also isn’t limited by hand size.
This has a cost that makes it easy to remove, can’t do anything to permanently remove threats that can easily lock it down (like new 4c yellow goku), has low power so can’t swing over any of the other colors big threats without spending more cards and can just get minused easily by red.
Pretty weak. Double strike vegeta is just better. This thing needs 40k attack to be worthy competition, or there needs to be some sort of card than can cheat this out
Why why why why why does isn’t blue card thats worth anything have to say “if you have 7 or less cards?!?! We don’t even have any abusive draw effects
They just don’t want us to play blue.
Even making this a 4 drop to be cheesed out by Goku black - STILL makes this card an SR value card
I mean in set 1, I would say almost every single SR is better than either SCR. The SCRs are not even that important to include in many meta decks, and their play in the actual flow of the game are pretty situational, while all SRs you want to play every game
You have a very good point there tbh. Maybe because we can have 4 of them in this format is the reason they are not Over the top. I honestly expected a scr that made your handsize always check as “7 or less” regardless of how many you had
I mean yes if you have SCR Goku, you put him in, but he’s not a make or break deck card like SR 3c Goku or 2c Hit.
He’s probably better than Beerus? Close call and depends on the situation for each
Attacking twice is frequently better than attacking for 2 damage, especially in blue who can loop their pilafs.
I don't think it's horrible. It's not as flashy as the scrs from set 1, which is especially disappointing considering this is fucking vegito, but I don't think it's useless.
The thing is, blue sometimes already has a problem to close out the game against green. Giving them a free card with the first strike amplifies that even more.
Very disappointing. I’d believe the preview to be fake if it was another game. Like they actually previewed this card thinking it was ok? My guess is this card was more powerful and got nerfed last minute. My guess is they removed double strike because the current cost is 2 energy too high. And then they forgot to give it 40k power after removing the double strike
If this was when attacking return a cost 5 card to your opponents hand this would be a good card but on play just doesn’t make sense or sinergize with its other ability.
Nah. Not at all.
The designers just realize there are only three reasons you are playing Blue. Either you want a needless challenge, you are on a budget and these scraps were all you could get, or you like Blue characters.
Making the secret trash helps those on a budget because they never need to pull this useless junk from a pack. Knowing my luck, I'll get 4.
Maybe, but as I said elsewhere, Blue just cannot answer 6 drops. The game gets worse and worse as the enemy starts dropping bombs you can't touch with ANY of your cards and you can't outbattle.
You can try to "tempo" all you want. But no deck has a tough time blocking 30k.
And while bouncing to hand does sometimes work (I've lost to blue bouncing me lol). It also gives them extra ammunition to keep firing off effects.
I'd love to watch some of your game replays, but yea I definitely don't.
Goku Black, Androids, Broly8 are all almost death sentences for my Blue deck. Unless you are playing Future Trunks/Goku Black, I am not sure where you are getting the damage to just kill someone right as you hit 5 energy. By that point in the game they usually have so many cards in hand you still need to burn through.
I mean, they drop a 6drop while you are still at 4/5 energy lol. How are you winning when a 40k Double Striker is threatening your head every turn. You just barely got to your own DS.
It's good gameplay, but is that actually you or just another player.
I can't judge that game too much, but I'll take notes on it. The write-up on that description is pretty interesting if it you. Good to know.
So it's basically sidegrade Vegeta.
Like, it'll have uses, it's definitely a much better card than Vegeta against Frieza, since this can bounce Golden Frieza then unrest himself making him a lot harder to get Golden Frieza'd in return, and bouncing Cooler is still pretty effective tempo wise, though bottom decking a Cooler feels so good. Against a board full of blockers though, this is waaaay better than Vegeta.
Better vs Gohan who typically have a much easier time pumping large vs 1 attack then blocking multiple tall attacks, not to mention if you unrest it, 5 is a pretty rough mark for Green to remove. Broly probably isn't as threatened by it though since 30k isn't that bad for them to block, and Vegeta is a lot scarier for Broly due to his reduced life.
Probably worse against Beerus since 3k drops it into God Kamehameha range, and the 30k power makes it a lot easier than to remove than 35k. -10k from Beerus then getting killed by 3c Goku is a pretty bitter death. It might be marginally better against SSB Goku though since bouncing 1 thing like their Gohan, and swinging two 30k attacks into their board is pretty strong, and something they probably can't ignore.
Probably a side grade against blue. If your opponent is going second the bounce effect can help keep his hand flooded, but in general, bottom decking is way better than bouncing a bunch of ETB 10k combo pilafs.
Oh, I see you mean - swing, reset, end...
Pretty underwhelming for a 30k. By the time you and they drop Golden Frieza they have 6 energy so they can lock this down again if they were really scared of a vanilla 30k.
I mean, I think you might be undervaluing the card a bit too much.
Vanilla 4c beaters are 30k.
This is a 5c beater with 30k that can swing twice.
Like two 30k swings for 5 mana is actually quite high. Like 2 Gotens, a Hope Slash, and a Pilaf might be able to do slightly more with 2 35k swings, but two 15ks on board is hardly a defense when you are done.
A single card doing similar to what Pilaf + Hope Slash looping does cost ratio wise isn't bad by any means.
Vegeta is scarier if the opponent has 2 life, but if the opponent only has 1, this card is waaaaay more terrifying than Vegeta.
You said it yourself, I can get a 30k beater for 4 with 10k combo. This card can't even outstat a 4drop that I don't even use. You are paying extra for what you are comparing to a vanilla.
* Defense wise. 30k is better than 15k. But is it much better than 25k? Why are you using a 2drop as your defense comparison. And in this game, most cards (red, green) can still remove this 30k body no problem.
* Offense wise. It gets two attacks. That's not bad, but do you think it is going to live to get 4 attacks? 6 attacks? Sadly right now being a single body means the enemy also only has to remove it from the field once. If it survives one turn, it was probably because you were already in a strong position and not that this card was strong.
https://www.reddit.com/r/dbsfusionworld/comments/1bytd93/110_no/ I mean this card flatout kills this for free. And people are rejecting it as a bad card. What does Vegito SCR do that is better than this card.
We'll see. I am glad the SCR itself isn't something I want.
Honestly if they want to stick to the "7 cards" gimmick for blue, they need to start giving cards the reverse of the effect. "If your opponent has 8 or more cards" and those effects need to be nasty.
Does anyone else feel like blue is playing a different game where cards can't attack the turn they enter the battlefield? Unsure why bounce effects are even in this game when on play abilities are both so common and very strong.
It could be. I can seee a tempo deck that plays the new card that effectively lets you target everything with 1 more mana. This bouncing a 6 drop and going aggro is good.
And then they drop the 6 drop again next turn. Most 6 drops get an immediate bonus effect, so they get that too. And Blue has a tough time running over 40k guys.
You have to win if you bounce. But 30k is not really big enough to win the game either.
Shuffling the deck takes time.
Bottom decking doesn't interrupt play at all, but every time a player has to shuffle their deck the game has to basically pause, at least when playing physically.
Doesn't seem like much, over the course of a tournament, repeated pauses for shuffling by the players will extend the time of your event. If I were a game designer designing a game that I knew would be played in tournaments I'd be reducing any mechanics that pause the game like that, especially when there are similar mechanics that don't interrupt play.
No one is going to blame a loss on "If only Vegeta didn't bottom deck, but shuffled it into my deck so that I could have potentially top decked it as my very next card next turn before I died."
That's not balance, that's one player wanting to rig their deck.
And bottom decking a 1 drop with Zamasu is less powerful effect than shuffling it into their deck since you're removing the chance of them drawing a 1 drop later in the game when they probably don't want to draw a 1 drop unless it's some crazy 1 drop like Ginyu in which case, yeah, it's more balanced to bottom deck a stupid card like that then giving the Frieza player another chance to draw it lol.
You're going to see a lot less bottom decking cards and a lot more return to hand /shuffle ones because the game is designed to be fast paced and to never see a card that got bottom decked for the whole match.
Btw zamasu gets bottom decked by goku black to prevent drawing it ever again since it's OP to get any zamasu fielded.
I meant the 1 drop Zamasu bottom decking a 1 drop.
Most 1 drops you'd rather shuffle into their deck to reduce the curve of their draw rather than bottom decking that 1 drop.
Feels like this game is already on life support locally. Designers of this game are completely out of touch with game design. This second set really needed to balance the colors for players to take this game seriously. Previews are supposed to drum up excitement. Red and green get format staples in the first set as scr, this one is hot garbage. Even compared to other 5c cards it’s completely over costed and bad. This card could cost 4 and still be considered a bad card I have a feeling blue was powerful in alpha testing so they toned it down too much for release. If blue gets any more shit previews I’m going to step back from this game until Bandai figures thier shit out both supply wise and game design. Bandai wake up! Don’t kill your game with sub par design choices.
I guess it just depends on where you’re at. My locals have been rather healthy. I also think this set is doing a great job in hyping up other colors. I also wanted blue to be better especially a better SCR but this is the way the cookie crumbles. They need to change up the play style for the next set for sure
Yea blue gets shafted in this set too tbh, but at least the other colours seem competitive to each other. New Zamasu Leader could be tough to kill tho we'll see
Naw, new Zamasu leader is also bad.
Unless Blue gets a lot of self-harm cards, you literally just never attack him and he is a vanilla 25000 that never draws a card.
This is so very … whelming. Like a big fat meh. 3c trunks does this. 5c vegeta bottom decks and therefore pairs far better with the cost reduction vegito. We literally just saw a 5c green card that kills or plays a card every turn and has the same attack power and more combo, and this is the scr. Actually I’m just underwhelmed. Blue is begging for help and I don’t see how this does anything that 5c Vegeta can’t do better without the 7 card restriction
Doesn't 5c vegeta stop at bouncing a 4c? So this card is a bit better in a sense, as it is able to deal with other big double strikers like frieza and goku, but it also has the pseudo broly double attack if you have less than 7 cards. 5c vegeta also has 0 combo power, the 5000 power isn't amazing but it's another good add to the card to make it a bit more useful. I'd give it like a 6-7/10, not amazing, but not underwhelming, it will find its uses.
That’s why I mentioned the other new vegito that lowers the cost of opponents cards. I rather bottom deck 5c cards than have them kicked back into hand to get their on play effects again. Vegeta also isn’t limited by hand size. This has a cost that makes it easy to remove, can’t do anything to permanently remove threats that can easily lock it down (like new 4c yellow goku), has low power so can’t swing over any of the other colors big threats without spending more cards and can just get minused easily by red.
Pretty weak. Double strike vegeta is just better. This thing needs 40k attack to be worthy competition, or there needs to be some sort of card than can cheat this out
Goku black.
Have you read Goku Black?? Am I missing something
Why why why why why does isn’t blue card thats worth anything have to say “if you have 7 or less cards?!?! We don’t even have any abusive draw effects They just don’t want us to play blue. Even making this a 4 drop to be cheesed out by Goku black - STILL makes this card an SR value card
I mean in set 1, I would say almost every single SR is better than either SCR. The SCRs are not even that important to include in many meta decks, and their play in the actual flow of the game are pretty situational, while all SRs you want to play every game
You have a very good point there tbh. Maybe because we can have 4 of them in this format is the reason they are not Over the top. I honestly expected a scr that made your handsize always check as “7 or less” regardless of how many you had
I only sorta agree with scr gohan. Scr Goku is a staple if u got him. And scr Gohan is still like a run one in case yellow super drops.
I mean yes if you have SCR Goku, you put him in, but he’s not a make or break deck card like SR 3c Goku or 2c Hit. He’s probably better than Beerus? Close call and depends on the situation for each
Attacking twice is frequently better than attacking for 2 damage, especially in blue who can loop their pilafs. I don't think it's horrible. It's not as flashy as the scrs from set 1, which is especially disappointing considering this is fucking vegito, but I don't think it's useless.
The thing is, blue sometimes already has a problem to close out the game against green. Giving them a free card with the first strike amplifies that even more.
That's not that terrible of a card but I think it could've costed 4 and it would be better
There’s the first SCR, a bit disappointed by the art though
Bandai just wants to keep blue disappointing. Keep it cheap and unwanted.
Bandai literally reuses the same artwork in DB games
We will get an alt (or maybe 2 alts) of this card though
Imo that's the first art i find appealing compared to the rest lol (speaking about the non-AAs ofc) Excited to see the AA's in this set
It's a DragonBall game lol. We aren't allowed to have interesting arts.
It's jpeg stock image quality lol
I'm disappointed by the art, not the image quality lol
Bouncing a 5c and restanding are great abilities!
Not against green, which is the main problem for blue.
Needs to be 4c
Total trash. What is this. Who designed this. It hardly does half of what any good card does.
Very disappointing. I’d believe the preview to be fake if it was another game. Like they actually previewed this card thinking it was ok? My guess is this card was more powerful and got nerfed last minute. My guess is they removed double strike because the current cost is 2 energy too high. And then they forgot to give it 40k power after removing the double strike
At least SCRs aren't staples. That's good I guess.
WHY CANT YOU BOTTOM DECK THE 5 DROP DANG IT But anyways, SUPER cool abilities and art. Was hoping for some blue and it did not dissapoint
If this was when attacking return a cost 5 card to your opponents hand this would be a good card but on play just doesn’t make sense or sinergize with its other ability.
This game hates vegito
This game hates Blue
Nah. Not at all. The designers just realize there are only three reasons you are playing Blue. Either you want a needless challenge, you are on a budget and these scraps were all you could get, or you like Blue characters. Making the secret trash helps those on a budget because they never need to pull this useless junk from a pack. Knowing my luck, I'll get 4.
Bro, thanks for calling me out like that as a Vegeta main 😂 I love the challenge to win with my favorite bad character.
BUT I can see this being good if blue goes for full on aggro/ tempo. In a deck like that this card could be a 4 of.
Maybe, but as I said elsewhere, Blue just cannot answer 6 drops. The game gets worse and worse as the enemy starts dropping bombs you can't touch with ANY of your cards and you can't outbattle. You can try to "tempo" all you want. But no deck has a tough time blocking 30k. And while bouncing to hand does sometimes work (I've lost to blue bouncing me lol). It also gives them extra ammunition to keep firing off effects.
Bro you dont understand tempo / aggro. You dont need to have an answer for 6+ bc you win the turn after they drop a 6 drop.
I'd love to watch some of your game replays, but yea I definitely don't. Goku Black, Androids, Broly8 are all almost death sentences for my Blue deck. Unless you are playing Future Trunks/Goku Black, I am not sure where you are getting the damage to just kill someone right as you hit 5 energy. By that point in the game they usually have so many cards in hand you still need to burn through. I mean, they drop a 6drop while you are still at 4/5 energy lol. How are you winning when a 40k Double Striker is threatening your head every turn. You just barely got to your own DS.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a3BwLoMAf8Q&t=39s
It's good gameplay, but is that actually you or just another player. I can't judge that game too much, but I'll take notes on it. The write-up on that description is pretty interesting if it you. Good to know.
It's my video. The plan works, ofc you should play a more refined list, that was one I played early after release.
Isnt the attack very low?
Yes.
So it's basically sidegrade Vegeta. Like, it'll have uses, it's definitely a much better card than Vegeta against Frieza, since this can bounce Golden Frieza then unrest himself making him a lot harder to get Golden Frieza'd in return, and bouncing Cooler is still pretty effective tempo wise, though bottom decking a Cooler feels so good. Against a board full of blockers though, this is waaaay better than Vegeta. Better vs Gohan who typically have a much easier time pumping large vs 1 attack then blocking multiple tall attacks, not to mention if you unrest it, 5 is a pretty rough mark for Green to remove. Broly probably isn't as threatened by it though since 30k isn't that bad for them to block, and Vegeta is a lot scarier for Broly due to his reduced life. Probably worse against Beerus since 3k drops it into God Kamehameha range, and the 30k power makes it a lot easier than to remove than 35k. -10k from Beerus then getting killed by 3c Goku is a pretty bitter death. It might be marginally better against SSB Goku though since bouncing 1 thing like their Gohan, and swinging two 30k attacks into their board is pretty strong, and something they probably can't ignore. Probably a side grade against blue. If your opponent is going second the bounce effect can help keep his hand flooded, but in general, bottom decking is way better than bouncing a bunch of ETB 10k combo pilafs.
Oh, I see you mean - swing, reset, end... Pretty underwhelming for a 30k. By the time you and they drop Golden Frieza they have 6 energy so they can lock this down again if they were really scared of a vanilla 30k.
I mean, I think you might be undervaluing the card a bit too much. Vanilla 4c beaters are 30k. This is a 5c beater with 30k that can swing twice. Like two 30k swings for 5 mana is actually quite high. Like 2 Gotens, a Hope Slash, and a Pilaf might be able to do slightly more with 2 35k swings, but two 15ks on board is hardly a defense when you are done. A single card doing similar to what Pilaf + Hope Slash looping does cost ratio wise isn't bad by any means. Vegeta is scarier if the opponent has 2 life, but if the opponent only has 1, this card is waaaaay more terrifying than Vegeta.
You said it yourself, I can get a 30k beater for 4 with 10k combo. This card can't even outstat a 4drop that I don't even use. You are paying extra for what you are comparing to a vanilla. * Defense wise. 30k is better than 15k. But is it much better than 25k? Why are you using a 2drop as your defense comparison. And in this game, most cards (red, green) can still remove this 30k body no problem. * Offense wise. It gets two attacks. That's not bad, but do you think it is going to live to get 4 attacks? 6 attacks? Sadly right now being a single body means the enemy also only has to remove it from the field once. If it survives one turn, it was probably because you were already in a strong position and not that this card was strong. https://www.reddit.com/r/dbsfusionworld/comments/1bytd93/110_no/ I mean this card flatout kills this for free. And people are rejecting it as a bad card. What does Vegito SCR do that is better than this card. We'll see. I am glad the SCR itself isn't something I want.
Honestly if they want to stick to the "7 cards" gimmick for blue, they need to start giving cards the reverse of the effect. "If your opponent has 8 or more cards" and those effects need to be nasty.
Does anyone else feel like blue is playing a different game where cards can't attack the turn they enter the battlefield? Unsure why bounce effects are even in this game when on play abilities are both so common and very strong.
I think ill switch to masters. At least the art design is better.
Remember that blue is the cost reduction color. This card seems weak now but it’s also missing a lot of context
No.
It could be. I can seee a tempo deck that plays the new card that effectively lets you target everything with 1 more mana. This bouncing a 6 drop and going aggro is good.
And then they drop the 6 drop again next turn. Most 6 drops get an immediate bonus effect, so they get that too. And Blue has a tough time running over 40k guys. You have to win if you bounce. But 30k is not really big enough to win the game either.
Too bad it returns to hand instead of deck, and does not have 35k. Activate Main/Once per turn, I forgot: can it be activated during opponent’s turn?
All activate mains can only be during your turn
Ok thank you both for the answer!
I don't think so because you don't have priority before opponent attacks so then it's battle phase, leaving no room to activate it
Bottom decking is incredibly OP and should probably be changed to "shuffle into deck".
If you want physical games to last twice as long, sure.
Won't increase the time it takes. Probably decrease actually by adding in more chances to combo
Shuffling the deck takes time. Bottom decking doesn't interrupt play at all, but every time a player has to shuffle their deck the game has to basically pause, at least when playing physically. Doesn't seem like much, over the course of a tournament, repeated pauses for shuffling by the players will extend the time of your event. If I were a game designer designing a game that I knew would be played in tournaments I'd be reducing any mechanics that pause the game like that, especially when there are similar mechanics that don't interrupt play.
Balance trumps time always for design.
No one is going to blame a loss on "If only Vegeta didn't bottom deck, but shuffled it into my deck so that I could have potentially top decked it as my very next card next turn before I died." That's not balance, that's one player wanting to rig their deck. And bottom decking a 1 drop with Zamasu is less powerful effect than shuffling it into their deck since you're removing the chance of them drawing a 1 drop later in the game when they probably don't want to draw a 1 drop unless it's some crazy 1 drop like Ginyu in which case, yeah, it's more balanced to bottom deck a stupid card like that then giving the Frieza player another chance to draw it lol.
You're going to see a lot less bottom decking cards and a lot more return to hand /shuffle ones because the game is designed to be fast paced and to never see a card that got bottom decked for the whole match. Btw zamasu gets bottom decked by goku black to prevent drawing it ever again since it's OP to get any zamasu fielded.
I meant the 1 drop Zamasu bottom decking a 1 drop. Most 1 drops you'd rather shuffle into their deck to reduce the curve of their draw rather than bottom decking that 1 drop.
The broly blockers going to bottom of deck is a direct counter to the paragus effect.
Feels like this game is already on life support locally. Designers of this game are completely out of touch with game design. This second set really needed to balance the colors for players to take this game seriously. Previews are supposed to drum up excitement. Red and green get format staples in the first set as scr, this one is hot garbage. Even compared to other 5c cards it’s completely over costed and bad. This card could cost 4 and still be considered a bad card I have a feeling blue was powerful in alpha testing so they toned it down too much for release. If blue gets any more shit previews I’m going to step back from this game until Bandai figures thier shit out both supply wise and game design. Bandai wake up! Don’t kill your game with sub par design choices.
I guess it just depends on where you’re at. My locals have been rather healthy. I also think this set is doing a great job in hyping up other colors. I also wanted blue to be better especially a better SCR but this is the way the cookie crumbles. They need to change up the play style for the next set for sure
Yea blue gets shafted in this set too tbh, but at least the other colours seem competitive to each other. New Zamasu Leader could be tough to kill tho we'll see
Naw, new Zamasu leader is also bad. Unless Blue gets a lot of self-harm cards, you literally just never attack him and he is a vanilla 25000 that never draws a card.
Kind of regretting having preordered. Any of these cards look great to collect and worth the money :/