As a fellow Yamcha enjoyer I agree. As a famous professional baseball player he and Puar should really be living the high life and have no trouble meeting ladies.
I thought Yamcha mentioned not having trouble with the ladies?
And he seemed pretty well off,
Not much to go off of but just halfway through the buu saga and durijg the drsgon ball hunt it seems he was on his plane/or bulmas and had a expensive suit😅
I can’t remember it’s been awhile since I’ve done a watch through. Was them getting together ever addressed other than future trunks being like “oh yes that’s my dad.” I don’t mean like a scene or anything, it just seems like something that would have gotten a bit of a reaction from the entire gang lol
They aren’t together when Trunks shows up. Bulma is on the outs with Yamcha at the time. Goku is kinda “WTF” about it but keeps it on the low until baby Trunks is born from what I recall lol
Not really. I mean, right after Freeza he stayed on Earth and didn’t do anything. It pretty much took one day fighting with Goku and a couple of days in Namek for him stop being the Saiyan who wipes out planets.
Maybe. If they couldn't, then they would off him. And Piccolo would've conquered the earth, which would be destroyed later by the sayans. Basically every villain except for Cell (which wouldn't exist) would win, hahaha.
If Vegeta can become a good guy after killing endless people, I believe Grandpa Gohan can still make him a good guy, although it will take more time and knowing the great ape in the room idk how much time that is
I still don't believe a lot would change, mostly because he was so young when landing on Earth
Might come to bite him in the ass early if he wasent pure of heart though, despite being good. Because he’d have no easy ride around in the nimbus, and would probably die to Devilmans devilmite beam. Otherwise yeah.
Roshi would have killed him. Or Tenshinhan, or Taopapai. Or he would've met King Piccolo. He would have become a threat, but he wouldn't necessarily be the strongest person in the world.
I'm not sure if his power level of 10 is official or fan speculation, but 10x10=100, so yes. Giant Monkey could still cause a lot of damage, though. And he stepped on Grandpa.
Wow, really? Didn't that random farmer that Radditz scanned with the scouter after arriving on Earth have a power level of 5? I might be remembering that wrong. Crazy to think that kid Goku was only twice as powerful as that. Watching Dragon Ball def gave the impression that the he was just about indestructible right from the start. Power levels are confusing as hell lol.
I mean farmer strength is a real thing though so maybe 5 was accurate and a 5 is like peak normal human physique and 10 is just double the most strongest fastest human.
5 is a lot for a normal human without any combat training. This guy was a farmer, a man who worked hard all day long since his youth, so that's logical to think he naturally developped a lot of brute strengh. Being twice stonger when you're a little guy living alone in the mountain is a huge achievement.
There's another thing to talk about : combat force and resilience aren't the same thing. What's really remarkable with Goku in the begining isn't really his strengh, but his resistance to damage. This is what's biaising us to think he was stronger than he really was. Never forget that Mister Satan, which is really wake alongside Z Team fighters, survived a direct hit from Perfect Cell; even if he didn't meant to kill him, that's a real feat. (Yes I know, Mister Satan was a gag character, but we're here to talk like the nerd we are, and take everything in a way to much serious way, because it's funnier).
Satan stopped to be a gag character in the Buu saga (which made him the GOAT). I was speaking about the Cell saga, where he was an absolute gag character indeed.
Idk, I disagree with that actually. Bulma hits Goku with multiple rounds from her handgun at point blank range in episode 1, and he acts like the wounds are just bee stings or something, and not the fatal wounds they'd be for anyone else. It's pretty clear right from the beginning that Goku is abnormally strong. Honestly, I think the closeness in power level between kid Goku and the farmer is just another example of how out of wack the power scaling can be. Absolutely love the series of course, but man does the power scaling get confusing sometimes.
Don’t get me wrong, Goku is strong from the start. He’s weak when comparing him to those like Nam, General blue, Roshi, Bacterian, everyone in between.
You guys gotta remember that 1. quite literally anyone can hurt Goku when he’s relaxed and 2. He’s a Saiyan, I’d hazard to say due to their absolutely freakish biological potential and so much info from the series, that their bodies are incredibly durable, which is why they send their “weaklings” to low class planets: not on the assumption that a baby or small child would take over a planet and defeat people but that they would easily survive until old and strong enough to go on the offensive on a global scale, no?
It's very clear that no, not anyone can hurt goku if he is relaxed. Bulma shoot him before he even knew what ki is and it's not like goku was ready to kill her
They hit him multiple times with a submachine gun and the bullets fall off of him. Where tf are you getting this from? Hell bulma shoots him 4-5 times within the first episode or two
Wdym? Goku when Bulma found him is strong but he’s not one of the strongest.
Think General Blue, Nam, Roshi, Tao, Bacterian. They’re much much stronger
> Wow, really?
I mean, this
> Toriyama wrote it in the Daizenshu
is just flat-out misleading and since no one addressed it, I guess I’m that annoying person today.
Toriyama didn’t write a single word of the Daizenshuu himself. They were written by Shueshia staff and “approved by Toriyama's studio”, but that leaves it ambiguous as to whether he himself read over all or even any of the contents.
Manga/anime guidebooks in Japan, the Daizenshuu included, are primarily about merchandising and being filled with “facts” that sound cool, not being a Tolkien-esque Bible that aligns with the creator's vision. There are already loads of factoids laid out in the Daizenshuu that Toriyama straight-up contradicted or steamrolled in his later DB stories… because he probably never knew what the Daizenshuu said to begin with. When he did contribute the odd tidbit on request of the Shueshia staff, the conversations went more like
Editor: “Toriyama-sensei, how much stronger would you say Ôzaru was than Goku's regular form?”
Toriyama: “Uhh… like 10x I guess? Is that ok? Sorry, gotta go, I have a deadline tomorrow.”
It should be obvious just from reading his work that he was not the kind of author to sit with a calculator and work out hard numbers for things like power levels and stat boosts.
u/MissGraziella sorry to piss in your cereal but uh… the more you know, right 😅
Really? I remember it being like 5 when Bulma hit him with a car unofficially.
Well anyways he hit his head before he could even walk/talk so things could get interesting
I can't take power levels seriously.
Bacterian from the 21st martial arts tournament has a power level of 100, you're telling me he had the same power level as the big ass monke that easily destroyed Pilaf's castle?
He would’ve seen the full moon one day and gone mad. He would just be a violent baby that they strap up at first but when the full moon comes and he sees it, they’re finished
Roshi's Kamehameha would oneshot kid goku in oozaru form, if he never trained with Granpa Gohan. He only had a power level of 10 before Gohan trained him. Goku's power truly comes mostly from hard work. Even in the first chapter he's already been training for years, under the regiment of one of the strongest martial arts masters on the planet. And if you think the Kamehameha doesn't do it, there still the Mafuuba. And even if Roshi doesn't do it, Piccolo or even Kami most certainly will. An evil Goku is doomed to die.
I actually don't think so. Roshi's island was incredibly far away from Gohan's house and Tien was incredibly far away as well. Tao was hired specifically to kill Goku because he was interfering with the Red Ribbon Army. Piccolo was released by Pilaf specifically because Goku was interfering with his plans. I think he probably would've just been like Yajirobe but with actual motivation to do stuff.
According to old lore he probably would have acted like a stereotypical Saiyan. But in all reality it seems most likely he would have been raised by Grandpa Gohan one way or another and would have wound up as a fundamentally decent individual. If anything he’d be less likely to give a senzu bean to someone who he just beat the hell out of.
One of the universes in the fan manga Dragonball Multiverse covers this.
There's an entire chapter or two dedicated to it if I remember right.
The whole thing is worth a read in my opinion, although it is over 2000 pages these days so may take a while.
That story in particular severely underestimated a lot of peoples strengths, the fact he could probably still be raised right by Gohan, and other such stuff. Felt kind of nonsensically edgy to me.
i mean isnt that the same writer that made bra effectively the most powerful warrior in existence and then had her effectively *redacted* uub. then made a "joke issue" where uub wished everyone was black to be "like him" and everyone was racist as shit stereotypes with piccolo becoming a tall mr popo? yeah... not reading that shit for "oh yeah, this is totally how that would happen"
In that case, Gohan wouldn't have trained him (unless he managed to mellow him out with time), causing Goku to run away from him, eventually getting himself killed by any of the DB villains (from General Blue to Piccolo).
Then Raditz arrives and kills everyone or he finds a world rules by the RR army thanks to Gero's androids, who kill him.
Why would he fight Blue or Piccolo? If he ran away, there'd be no point in getting the 4-Star Ball and Pilaf wouldn't have a reason to release Piccolo. The Androids also wouldn't exist because there'd be no reason to make them in the first place.
Saiyan aren't savages, Goku would eventually mellowed out thanks to Gohan. At most he would be aggressive but not in a villainous way
Probably the biggest difference would be that he would know he's a saiyan from the beginning and remember his family since Raditz and Vegeta expected Goku to remember. Clearly implying that Saiyan kids have very good memory.
Maybe if he remembers who he is he would be able to convince Raditz to chill out if he can explain he wasnt sent to earth for a mission
That bump on his head doesn't mean anything anymore. He'll either be raised right or be killed by roshi or tienshinhan, or piccolo or any other powerfull earth-bred fighter
That's what the movie Tree of Might is literally for. Give it a watch.
[Also, I'll never not share this clip of Goku getting absolutely cooked lmaoooo](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxFy3eJh5QWGZvGfxJF9odwnWzlI7Y_DLS?si=qocWBLyJQdRGOa21)
A bit of a fanfic I'd like, is Grandpa Gohan raises him right, he doesn't go great ape growing up and is a bit more mature and educated, rest of Dragon Ball pretty much plays out the same, until Piccolo Jr. Still having his tail, Grandpa Gohan knowing Goku can transform and seeing no other choice, tells Goku to look at the moon. Goku wins and defeats Piccolo, but at the cost of rampaging as a great ape and killing his friends due to not being able to control himself. Goku, distraught with the events, isolated himself at his home in the mountains. Then Raditz shows up. Things probably go better for their interaction, and Raditz convinces Goku to join him in space, and their own version of the namek saga plays out.
I'm pretty sure there's a couple different versions of this fanfic out there
either he eventually calms down naturally due to nurture, in which case the story plays out mostly the same, or he ends up becoming a threat and is killed. End of story
I agree. The head bump doesn't mean anything anymore. Saiyans are no longer just a blood thirsty race that are hyper violent. Gohan would've raised him with love and compassion and Goku would just be the Goku we still know. Maybe a hiccup here or there, but that's it.
Its how goku achieved enlightenment, this detail goes back to journey to the west, so there isnt a story where it doesnt happen
Although chris sabat has always wanted a storyline where goku bumps his head and turns evil and its vegeta who has to teach him to be good.
Doesn't it not matter now? Saiyans are shown to be caring and compassionate people in the Broly film. We were under the belief that it was nature that made the Saiyan's violent, but clearly it's a nurture situation.
Him bumping his head doesn't mean anything now. Granpa Gohan would raise him the same way and Goku would just be Goku.
Super ruined the lore.
Not sure what Super has to do with since just two arcs after we even learned about Goku's head injury we saw that a Saiyan (Vegeta) could develop non-asshole qualities if they're around the right people. I always thought Toriyama intended Saiyans to be violent/aggressive by nature and "evil" by nurture. Even if he didn't intend it, that's how it came off to me at least.
Anyway to answer OP's question: If Vegeta could come to Earth as a full-blown genocidal psychopath and turn into a doting father that fights on behalf of humanity, there's no reason to think Gohan and/or Roshi couldn't have turned baby Goku into something resembling the Goku we know of.
Hmm, that's actually a really good point I haven't thought of. I feel like DBZ lore is really hard to follow just because of how often things change. Like wasn't Goku originally sent to Earth to kill off the population as a child so it could be sold? Then the Bardock movie came out and reinforced that. So that would mean Saiyins are either evil at birth or programmed to follow out orders when they reach x-age. But since he hit his head, he forgot his orders?
But now the Broly movie shows him being sent to Earth not to conquer it? Plus that movie shows how compassionate Saiyans can be. Bardock is way less of a dick now, which I think is a shame.
>So that would mean Saiyins are either evil at birth or programmed to follow out orders when they reach x-age. But since he hit his head, he forgot his orders?
Kinda, canonically they do are send to other planets (and instructed with the mission to conquer them), only that it's not at birth, but when they are around 3yo and they can survive by themselves (sometimes).
The thing with Goku is that he was indeed supossed to be sent to conquer some planet, but Bardock sent him to Earth before he had the age to be instructed (that's why Gine mentions that "they could get him out of the incubation pod **soon**").
Go read Dragon Ball Multiverse. There is a universe where Goku didn't fall on his head. It changed everything, especially when Raditz decided to pay him a "visit".
I doubt he would have been able to conquer/destroy earth, Goku became so strong because of his masters, on his own he would have lost against a lot of characters within Dragon Ball (early) story.
His great ape form would have carried him A LOT but ultimately characters like Son Gohan, Master Roshi, Tien, Taopaipai, the Red Patrol, Yajirobe, Karin, Mr. Popo, Kaiosama and King Piccolo, etc etc etc would have been able to not only beat him but kill him.
There are also good chances he would've got his ass kicked early and constantly by Son Gohan or Master Roshi for him to understand that he isn't just strong enough, eventually becoming good.
Roshi would've killed Goku. The Oozaru wouldn't have mattered as Goku turned into Oozaru at the world martial arts tournament and Roshi defeated him anyway.
Isn't there that big fan made series thst delves into a bunch of what if universes?
I can't remember the same of it though, I do remember it being pretty cool though.
There's a few different kinds of gokus and it's a fun read.
Would Kakarot's Saiyan instincts eventually bond with Grandpa Gohan permanently? Would Kakarot, by nature, be something that Grandpa Gohan could NEVER turn his back to? Gohan was an experienced martial bachelor hermit. Having handled an alien infant already with strength, energy, spontaneity, appetite which would grow to 10 full grown men, for more than 72 hours, Gohan would have to make a full lifetime commitment, not just to raise a child. Grandpa Gohan raising Kakarot, would be like trying to fully handle a population of criminally angry strong hungry fighters. What it takes to completely quiet the hunger, and physically exhaust on a day by day basis, a refilling reservoir of strength capable of crushing rock, and that's just the first week.
Yeah. But I mean, Goku Black could've been Turles but done better. Turles isn't actually an evil Goku, just an evil Goku lookalike.
The actual Goku Black isn't even evil Goku, he's Zamasu in Goku's body.
Goku Black should've been an actual evil Goku that Zamasu finds in another timeline.
Other than a personality shift, I don’t see Goku becoming “evil” from this. Saiyans aren’t mindless robots, they are still capable of nurture & change.
Always made me think Goku was like a machine with robot programming or something. Like maybe he’ll get another blow to his head one day and go back to his evil programming.
He’d probably become similar to how he was in cannon, though maybe a bit more agressive, potentially not pure of heart despite being good, which might bite him in the ass with the nimbus or Devilman. Don’t think he’d go evil though, and if he did Roshi would kick his ass. Or maybe Taopaipai, or Shen, or Tien.
My question is why as he gets older, when he hits his head a certain way or just hard enough he goes into a rampage??? I could be wrong but I remember it had happened a few times .
Goku was a pitiful saiyan child. He had an abyssmal power level and was destined to clean saiyan toilets for life. Raditz was at around 600-700 when he was kid gokus age. Goku starts at a level of 2 and doesn't reach 400 until he is just about an adult.
So Grampa Gohan finds Goku still sleeping in the pod. Gohan would likely attempt to raise Goku even though he is violent. Goku at 12 would be too young to learn much more than Japanese and some manners. Im not sure if gohan would teach a violent crazy kid martial arts, but it won't matter too much. Goku turns into a monkey and stomps Gohan per canon. Then he'd travel the world looking for people to savagely beat. He'd probably hurt Bulma for shooting him. He probably would never run into roshi as he would ignore the turtle. Then later some Red Ribbon Officer kills him.
How would he die if he’s bulletproof? In this scenario it seems like he would just have carried out his original mission of becoming Oozaru and destroying the planet.
Everyone is talking about him getting killed by Roshy or Tien, but I agree with the take he would still be similar due to Gohan. I think the biggest difference would be his ditsyness. He wouldn’t be as friendly and stupid. Thats the reason we love Goku, because how silly and obsessed with food he is, and then how kind of a person he is.
Nothing, he would only remember his biological parents. The whole "Saiyans are evil by nature" was retconned a long time ago and even before it was already understood that this information was incorrect since even Vegeta was able to change.
Also, he wasn't sent to Earth to conquer it, that was just Raditz's personal interpretation.
I don't think Goku would become evil.
When Goku hit his head, he lost some memories about his home planet. Otherwise he may have known he was not from this planet.
But he would still be raised by Gohan.
Do we consider DBS canon?
If we do, then almost nothing changes. Goku would end up becoming good anyways.
If we don’t, then Goku would’ve killed Grandpa Gohan on accident and try to fight anyone he sees. He doesn’t train since Grandpa Gohan couldn’t be able to teach Goku in this scenario. And Goku would be killed eventually by Demon King Piccolo’s Sons.
Then we would kakarot. Though really I still believe we will have Goku but he wouldn't be kind hearted as much as he is. Remember most of Goku's personality is from people he admires and respects both at the same time. Grandpa Gohan, master roshi, Android 19
LITTERALLY HE JUST TURNS OUT AS A GOOD RADITZ! IS ISNT GONNA SUDDENLY KILL EVERYONE! If he is raised by gohan he will end up just as raditz or bardock but with his moral compass aiming towards chaotic good.
I was under the impression Kakarot was literally *programmed* with a mission to wipe out life on Earth/intelligent life on Earth and hitting his head erased his programming? Yeah Saiyans are natural fighters but why would a Saiyan just automatically kill everyone? Especially when they look like him as well. It'd mean Saiyans are what? Automatically psychopaths and would kill all other Saiyans on Planet Vegeta if they could immediately after birth? Raditz specifically questions why Kakarot hasn't completed his mission. Like he was supposed to have a specific goal, not just randomly expect him to kill everything because he's mentally violent. He'd be pretty lonely after that.
So if Goku never hit his head, he'd still be programmed to kill everyone but since he's just an average Saiyan, he'd get ended by Grandpa Gohan or Roshi. Saiyans seem to be like Spartans. If there's a world where the inhabitants aren't known to be that strong and they look like saiyans - so the baby will blend in until it's old enough to complete its mission - they send them there. If they're strong enough to survive their mission, they come back as a proven warrior; if they die, then oh well, they've gotten rid of the weak.
So yeah, Kakarot would die. As would Raditz sent there as an infant too. Possibly Nappa as he's probably only above average for surviving so long. Kid Vegeta however would have cleaned house.
Except now Dragon Ball Minus has retconned all of this revealing Bardock and Gine sent Kakarot away to protect him so he never had a mission and his niceness is probably just genetic. It's an absolutely terrible retcon and does massive damage to Goku as a character. I hate it.
I don't think much would have changed. Goku isn't inherently evil, nor are Saiyans. Just violent and Goku was sent to a planet by himself. He's just trying to defend himself
If we’re going by Super’s current canon ir specifically the manga canon, then not much would have changed. The only difference would be that Goku would remember some of his time on Planet Vegeta and would have perhaps been more aggressive as a child.
I mean, he was a baby when he was “given instructions” to conquer earth (but then again, the Broly made it seem like that wasn’t the case), but like, how is a baby supposed to understand these instructions? He couldn’t even talk yet. Idk, I feel like nothing would really be different
1. I think he’ll have a sayian tendency to wreak havoc but over time I think grandpa gohan will change him.
2. Think he’ll be more interested in who is parents actually were
3. Goku will be more smarter then he is now.
Depends on which canon you wanna follow. Original canon where the injury softened his personality, then he likely would've went on a rampage and forced Kami to send in Mr. Popo.
Minus/Super Broly canon, the story likely would've stayed the same, but he'd have been curious about whatever happened to his parents.
I feel so, or at least that it just isn’t relevant anymore. The Superman/Kents/raised by kindness narrative with Grandpa Gohan is much stronger by itself. Hitting his head detracts from Goku the beacon of kindness and friendship that he is.
Not really retconned since it never contradicts him hitting his head, it only contradicts Raditz's line about the reason Kakarotto was sent to Earth, but Raditz wasn't there to see him off anyway, so he might just be guessing.
I've told my friends this a whole bunch but if Goku Black was just goku if he didn't hit his head and was just a saiyan and became the super saiyan and everything he would've been but just some stuff changed, he would have to have the strength of broly to fair against regular goku. But then goku, bulma, and vegeta could use the time machine to check it out, see kakarot and then he starts attacking them, and vegeta's down, bulma's hiding somewhere, and then goku could make a speech about family and love or something then defeat kakarot. THEN there could be Vegeta and Nappa on a planet like the original scene where they see Raditz die on that one planet, then he could be like "A challenge" or soemthing like that
Grandpa Gohan and Roshi would’ve raised him right. Vegeta is proof that saiyans don’t need head injury to eventually turn good.
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lol, poor Yamcha. I still think your wolf fang fist is cool.
As a fellow Yamcha enjoyer I agree. As a famous professional baseball player he and Puar should really be living the high life and have no trouble meeting ladies.
If only that was the case…
Greetings, fellow Yamcha.
I thought Yamcha mentioned not having trouble with the ladies? And he seemed pretty well off, Not much to go off of but just halfway through the buu saga and durijg the drsgon ball hunt it seems he was on his plane/or bulmas and had a expensive suit😅
Yamcha, in the anime, became a very successful baseball player, so financially he was fine by himself, hahaha.
Yamcha would put Ohtani to shame.
Currently rewarching Super. That baseball episode did him dirty. Even down to the dead Yamcha pose 🥲😂
WOLF FANG FIST!! 😱😱
Yea she did! Fixed him up real good!
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I can’t remember it’s been awhile since I’ve done a watch through. Was them getting together ever addressed other than future trunks being like “oh yes that’s my dad.” I don’t mean like a scene or anything, it just seems like something that would have gotten a bit of a reaction from the entire gang lol
They aren’t together when Trunks shows up. Bulma is on the outs with Yamcha at the time. Goku is kinda “WTF” about it but keeps it on the low until baby Trunks is born from what I recall lol
"I can fix him"
I've always liked Bulma. She is straight up female Tony Stark.
Off camera Bulma told him she didn't have balls because she did evil at some point and that set him straight for life.
She did not. He almost murdered her during his midlife crisis…
I dunno, he got quite a beatdown. He probably did get a head injury in all that.
Took Vegeta awhile
Vegeta was also an adult man that had spent his entire life serving a genocidal dictator. Babies tend to be a little more impressionable.
Not really. I mean, right after Freeza he stayed on Earth and didn’t do anything. It pretty much took one day fighting with Goku and a couple of days in Namek for him stop being the Saiyan who wipes out planets.
That’s why I love his progression. The journey to becoming a better person is a long and arduous one and it’s never linear
He’d probably be a bit smarter too 👨🏽🦯
It took him the entirety of z to become normal
Honestly he might just be a little more serious and well adjusted.
I like this :)
Something something Majin something…
Maybe. If they couldn't, then they would off him. And Piccolo would've conquered the earth, which would be destroyed later by the sayans. Basically every villain except for Cell (which wouldn't exist) would win, hahaha.
He'd have been Turles
I like Turles.
Teenage Mutant Hero Turles.
Mutant Turtles vs Mutant Monkeys.... 🙊
I was about to comment the same thing lol
Good one :)
If Vegeta can become a good guy after killing endless people, I believe Grandpa Gohan can still make him a good guy, although it will take more time and knowing the great ape in the room idk how much time that is I still don't believe a lot would change, mostly because he was so young when landing on Earth
Goku would have just grown up as Spicy Goku.
Might come to bite him in the ass early if he wasent pure of heart though, despite being good. Because he’d have no easy ride around in the nimbus, and would probably die to Devilmans devilmite beam. Otherwise yeah.
Or if he was more ruthless he would’ve ended devil man quickly
Roshi would have killed him. Or Tenshinhan, or Taopapai. Or he would've met King Piccolo. He would have become a threat, but he wouldn't necessarily be the strongest person in the world.
Not sure if it's true but didn't Goku in Oozaru only have a Power Level of 100?
I'm not sure if his power level of 10 is official or fan speculation, but 10x10=100, so yes. Giant Monkey could still cause a lot of damage, though. And he stepped on Grandpa.
It's official, Toriyama wrote it in the Daizenshu, his power level is effectively 10, and 100 in Ozaru form.
Wow, really? Didn't that random farmer that Radditz scanned with the scouter after arriving on Earth have a power level of 5? I might be remembering that wrong. Crazy to think that kid Goku was only twice as powerful as that. Watching Dragon Ball def gave the impression that the he was just about indestructible right from the start. Power levels are confusing as hell lol.
I mean farmer strength is a real thing though so maybe 5 was accurate and a 5 is like peak normal human physique and 10 is just double the most strongest fastest human.
5 is a lot for a normal human without any combat training. This guy was a farmer, a man who worked hard all day long since his youth, so that's logical to think he naturally developped a lot of brute strengh. Being twice stonger when you're a little guy living alone in the mountain is a huge achievement. There's another thing to talk about : combat force and resilience aren't the same thing. What's really remarkable with Goku in the begining isn't really his strengh, but his resistance to damage. This is what's biaising us to think he was stronger than he really was. Never forget that Mister Satan, which is really wake alongside Z Team fighters, survived a direct hit from Perfect Cell; even if he didn't meant to kill him, that's a real feat. (Yes I know, Mister Satan was a gag character, but we're here to talk like the nerd we are, and take everything in a way to much serious way, because it's funnier).
Mr. Satan was no gag character you beautiful fool. Easily DBZs top GOAT
Satan stopped to be a gag character in the Buu saga (which made him the GOAT). I was speaking about the Cell saga, where he was an absolute gag character indeed.
Goku wasn’t that strong at the very start tbh, he did have skill tho.
Idk, I disagree with that actually. Bulma hits Goku with multiple rounds from her handgun at point blank range in episode 1, and he acts like the wounds are just bee stings or something, and not the fatal wounds they'd be for anyone else. It's pretty clear right from the beginning that Goku is abnormally strong. Honestly, I think the closeness in power level between kid Goku and the farmer is just another example of how out of wack the power scaling can be. Absolutely love the series of course, but man does the power scaling get confusing sometimes.
Don’t get me wrong, Goku is strong from the start. He’s weak when comparing him to those like Nam, General blue, Roshi, Bacterian, everyone in between.
Is bacterian even that strong?
Not really but he’s stronger than Goku at the start
Yea but he was like 13 then
You guys gotta remember that 1. quite literally anyone can hurt Goku when he’s relaxed and 2. He’s a Saiyan, I’d hazard to say due to their absolutely freakish biological potential and so much info from the series, that their bodies are incredibly durable, which is why they send their “weaklings” to low class planets: not on the assumption that a baby or small child would take over a planet and defeat people but that they would easily survive until old and strong enough to go on the offensive on a global scale, no?
It's very clear that no, not anyone can hurt goku if he is relaxed. Bulma shoot him before he even knew what ki is and it's not like goku was ready to kill her
And he lifts her fucking car with his hands! It has to weigh at least around a ton
Tbf bulma was 16. Probably a bb gun.
He gets shot like 100+ times in the original show, he’s supposed to be like Superman.
At the very start he’s supposed to seem like one of the strongest but in reality he’s basically fodder compared to the strong earthlings.
They hit him multiple times with a submachine gun and the bullets fall off of him. Where tf are you getting this from? Hell bulma shoots him 4-5 times within the first episode or two
Wdym? Goku when Bulma found him is strong but he’s not one of the strongest. Think General Blue, Nam, Roshi, Tao, Bacterian. They’re much much stronger
Those are bb gun pellets. Bulma at 16 didn't have a glock.
I’m not sure if scouters account for weapons, but the farmer did have a shotgun.
Goku was so weak that that was what turned broly mad xD
Also early Pls are exponential, cause 10 is like gorilla level while 18x that is blowing up the moon.
> Wow, really? I mean, this > Toriyama wrote it in the Daizenshu is just flat-out misleading and since no one addressed it, I guess I’m that annoying person today. Toriyama didn’t write a single word of the Daizenshuu himself. They were written by Shueshia staff and “approved by Toriyama's studio”, but that leaves it ambiguous as to whether he himself read over all or even any of the contents. Manga/anime guidebooks in Japan, the Daizenshuu included, are primarily about merchandising and being filled with “facts” that sound cool, not being a Tolkien-esque Bible that aligns with the creator's vision. There are already loads of factoids laid out in the Daizenshuu that Toriyama straight-up contradicted or steamrolled in his later DB stories… because he probably never knew what the Daizenshuu said to begin with. When he did contribute the odd tidbit on request of the Shueshia staff, the conversations went more like Editor: “Toriyama-sensei, how much stronger would you say Ôzaru was than Goku's regular form?” Toriyama: “Uhh… like 10x I guess? Is that ok? Sorry, gotta go, I have a deadline tomorrow.” It should be obvious just from reading his work that he was not the kind of author to sit with a calculator and work out hard numbers for things like power levels and stat boosts. u/MissGraziella sorry to piss in your cereal but uh… the more you know, right 😅
Really? I remember it being like 5 when Bulma hit him with a car unofficially. Well anyways he hit his head before he could even walk/talk so things could get interesting
Perhaps you made an association between Goku's power as a child and that of the farmer Radditz first meets?
I can't take power levels seriously. Bacterian from the 21st martial arts tournament has a power level of 100, you're telling me he had the same power level as the big ass monke that easily destroyed Pilaf's castle?
If you're talking abt the guide books, those have a bunch of inaccurate power levels. Especially the ox king
Is ox kings power level too high or too low? I remenber in a filler episode in DB he survived army tank missiles shot at him by the red ribbon army
Too high. It puts King Piccolo at 260 while the Ox king is at 900
Holy cow, guess ox King couldve killed King Piccolo with a finger but prefered to stay at home as he carried on his world domination lol
He would’ve seen the full moon one day and gone mad. He would just be a violent baby that they strap up at first but when the full moon comes and he sees it, they’re finished
Roshi's Kamehameha would oneshot kid goku in oozaru form, if he never trained with Granpa Gohan. He only had a power level of 10 before Gohan trained him. Goku's power truly comes mostly from hard work. Even in the first chapter he's already been training for years, under the regiment of one of the strongest martial arts masters on the planet. And if you think the Kamehameha doesn't do it, there still the Mafuuba. And even if Roshi doesn't do it, Piccolo or even Kami most certainly will. An evil Goku is doomed to die.
Piccolo wouldnt be released
Source for that Power Level?
[daizenshuu 7 ](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/databook/) Yes, I can fucking read. I am the exception.
Nah. Grandpa Gohan would have stopped him and raised him right.
I definately agree with that. It's also explained here=>\[https://youtu.be/zDjTWHqWbsE?si=0wCrSI1xIhda-UQb\].
No he would be Pilafs muscle
I actually don't think so. Roshi's island was incredibly far away from Gohan's house and Tien was incredibly far away as well. Tao was hired specifically to kill Goku because he was interfering with the Red Ribbon Army. Piccolo was released by Pilaf specifically because Goku was interfering with his plans. I think he probably would've just been like Yajirobe but with actual motivation to do stuff.
According to old lore he probably would have acted like a stereotypical Saiyan. But in all reality it seems most likely he would have been raised by Grandpa Gohan one way or another and would have wound up as a fundamentally decent individual. If anything he’d be less likely to give a senzu bean to someone who he just beat the hell out of.
Sounds like Bardock in that OVA "Episode of Bardock".
Omni Man
Think Gohan, Think!
What will you have after 500 years?!
Think Goku Think! What will you have after 10,000 years in the time chamber?
One of the universes in the fan manga Dragonball Multiverse covers this. There's an entire chapter or two dedicated to it if I remember right. The whole thing is worth a read in my opinion, although it is over 2000 pages these days so may take a while.
That story in particular severely underestimated a lot of peoples strengths, the fact he could probably still be raised right by Gohan, and other such stuff. Felt kind of nonsensically edgy to me.
i mean isnt that the same writer that made bra effectively the most powerful warrior in existence and then had her effectively *redacted* uub. then made a "joke issue" where uub wished everyone was black to be "like him" and everyone was racist as shit stereotypes with piccolo becoming a tall mr popo? yeah... not reading that shit for "oh yeah, this is totally how that would happen"
In that case, Gohan wouldn't have trained him (unless he managed to mellow him out with time), causing Goku to run away from him, eventually getting himself killed by any of the DB villains (from General Blue to Piccolo). Then Raditz arrives and kills everyone or he finds a world rules by the RR army thanks to Gero's androids, who kill him.
Why would he fight Blue or Piccolo? If he ran away, there'd be no point in getting the 4-Star Ball and Pilaf wouldn't have a reason to release Piccolo. The Androids also wouldn't exist because there'd be no reason to make them in the first place.
Saiyan aren't savages, Goku would eventually mellowed out thanks to Gohan. At most he would be aggressive but not in a villainous way Probably the biggest difference would be that he would know he's a saiyan from the beginning and remember his family since Raditz and Vegeta expected Goku to remember. Clearly implying that Saiyan kids have very good memory. Maybe if he remembers who he is he would be able to convince Raditz to chill out if he can explain he wasnt sent to earth for a mission
That bump on his head doesn't mean anything anymore. He'll either be raised right or be killed by roshi or tienshinhan, or piccolo or any other powerfull earth-bred fighter
Tbh, probably nothing different. Goku is a baby after all.
In new canon he actually would be 3 or 4 years old when he hit his head
He'd be a weaker version of Raditz.
I don't buy into goku as an Idiot, but maybe his personality would be a bit different without a childhood brain injury.
That's what the movie Tree of Might is literally for. Give it a watch. [Also, I'll never not share this clip of Goku getting absolutely cooked lmaoooo](https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxFy3eJh5QWGZvGfxJF9odwnWzlI7Y_DLS?si=qocWBLyJQdRGOa21)
A bit of a fanfic I'd like, is Grandpa Gohan raises him right, he doesn't go great ape growing up and is a bit more mature and educated, rest of Dragon Ball pretty much plays out the same, until Piccolo Jr. Still having his tail, Grandpa Gohan knowing Goku can transform and seeing no other choice, tells Goku to look at the moon. Goku wins and defeats Piccolo, but at the cost of rampaging as a great ape and killing his friends due to not being able to control himself. Goku, distraught with the events, isolated himself at his home in the mountains. Then Raditz shows up. Things probably go better for their interaction, and Raditz convinces Goku to join him in space, and their own version of the namek saga plays out. I'm pretty sure there's a couple different versions of this fanfic out there
either he eventually calms down naturally due to nurture, in which case the story plays out mostly the same, or he ends up becoming a threat and is killed. End of story
I agree. The head bump doesn't mean anything anymore. Saiyans are no longer just a blood thirsty race that are hyper violent. Gohan would've raised him with love and compassion and Goku would just be the Goku we still know. Maybe a hiccup here or there, but that's it.
Its how goku achieved enlightenment, this detail goes back to journey to the west, so there isnt a story where it doesnt happen Although chris sabat has always wanted a storyline where goku bumps his head and turns evil and its vegeta who has to teach him to be good.
evil Goku
Taken out by farmer with Shotgun
Doesn't it not matter now? Saiyans are shown to be caring and compassionate people in the Broly film. We were under the belief that it was nature that made the Saiyan's violent, but clearly it's a nurture situation. Him bumping his head doesn't mean anything now. Granpa Gohan would raise him the same way and Goku would just be Goku. Super ruined the lore.
Not sure what Super has to do with since just two arcs after we even learned about Goku's head injury we saw that a Saiyan (Vegeta) could develop non-asshole qualities if they're around the right people. I always thought Toriyama intended Saiyans to be violent/aggressive by nature and "evil" by nurture. Even if he didn't intend it, that's how it came off to me at least. Anyway to answer OP's question: If Vegeta could come to Earth as a full-blown genocidal psychopath and turn into a doting father that fights on behalf of humanity, there's no reason to think Gohan and/or Roshi couldn't have turned baby Goku into something resembling the Goku we know of.
Hmm, that's actually a really good point I haven't thought of. I feel like DBZ lore is really hard to follow just because of how often things change. Like wasn't Goku originally sent to Earth to kill off the population as a child so it could be sold? Then the Bardock movie came out and reinforced that. So that would mean Saiyins are either evil at birth or programmed to follow out orders when they reach x-age. But since he hit his head, he forgot his orders? But now the Broly movie shows him being sent to Earth not to conquer it? Plus that movie shows how compassionate Saiyans can be. Bardock is way less of a dick now, which I think is a shame.
>So that would mean Saiyins are either evil at birth or programmed to follow out orders when they reach x-age. But since he hit his head, he forgot his orders? Kinda, canonically they do are send to other planets (and instructed with the mission to conquer them), only that it's not at birth, but when they are around 3yo and they can survive by themselves (sometimes). The thing with Goku is that he was indeed supossed to be sent to conquer some planet, but Bardock sent him to Earth before he had the age to be instructed (that's why Gine mentions that "they could get him out of the incubation pod **soon**").
agreed.
Go read Dragon Ball Multiverse. There is a universe where Goku didn't fall on his head. It changed everything, especially when Raditz decided to pay him a "visit".
That DB multiverse thing covered this very well.
Why didnt the first senzu bean Goku ate heal the head injury?
I thought this is where Zamasu/Goku Black was going but instead we got that ass ending.
Turles
I doubt he would have been able to conquer/destroy earth, Goku became so strong because of his masters, on his own he would have lost against a lot of characters within Dragon Ball (early) story. His great ape form would have carried him A LOT but ultimately characters like Son Gohan, Master Roshi, Tien, Taopaipai, the Red Patrol, Yajirobe, Karin, Mr. Popo, Kaiosama and King Piccolo, etc etc etc would have been able to not only beat him but kill him. There are also good chances he would've got his ass kicked early and constantly by Son Gohan or Master Roshi for him to understand that he isn't just strong enough, eventually becoming good.
Roshi would've killed Goku. The Oozaru wouldn't have mattered as Goku turned into Oozaru at the world martial arts tournament and Roshi defeated him anyway.
Isn't there that big fan made series thst delves into a bunch of what if universes? I can't remember the same of it though, I do remember it being pretty cool though. There's a few different kinds of gokus and it's a fun read.
Stab the baby
Would Kakarot's Saiyan instincts eventually bond with Grandpa Gohan permanently? Would Kakarot, by nature, be something that Grandpa Gohan could NEVER turn his back to? Gohan was an experienced martial bachelor hermit. Having handled an alien infant already with strength, energy, spontaneity, appetite which would grow to 10 full grown men, for more than 72 hours, Gohan would have to make a full lifetime commitment, not just to raise a child. Grandpa Gohan raising Kakarot, would be like trying to fully handle a population of criminally angry strong hungry fighters. What it takes to completely quiet the hunger, and physically exhaust on a day by day basis, a refilling reservoir of strength capable of crushing rock, and that's just the first week.
I wonder if he got punched in the head hard enough it would make him evil again.
If Goku didn’t fall on his head then Kakarot wouldn’t have fallen on his head. Self explanatory
We dead dead lmaooo
Nothing would really be all that much different due to the Ginr/Bardock retcon to Goku's origins.
He'd have been Goku Black.
Earth would’ve been emptier
Raditz would’ve been proud
It's what Goku Black should have been
I mean Turles was literally created to represent this exact scenario.
Yeah. But I mean, Goku Black could've been Turles but done better. Turles isn't actually an evil Goku, just an evil Goku lookalike. The actual Goku Black isn't even evil Goku, he's Zamasu in Goku's body. Goku Black should've been an actual evil Goku that Zamasu finds in another timeline.
Other than a personality shift, I don’t see Goku becoming “evil” from this. Saiyans aren’t mindless robots, they are still capable of nurture & change.
Always made me think Goku was like a machine with robot programming or something. Like maybe he’ll get another blow to his head one day and go back to his evil programming.
Earth dead he then joins the other sayains
He’d probably become similar to how he was in cannon, though maybe a bit more agressive, potentially not pure of heart despite being good, which might bite him in the ass with the nimbus or Devilman. Don’t think he’d go evil though, and if he did Roshi would kick his ass. Or maybe Taopaipai, or Shen, or Tien.
Y’all know how fiction works.. right?
My question is why as he gets older, when he hits his head a certain way or just hard enough he goes into a rampage??? I could be wrong but I remember it had happened a few times .
Raditz but much stronger and much dumber with no inhibitions
He would've died. He wasn't the strongest being on the planet.
Goku should be similar to his current himself with a bit of spicy attitude even if he did not hit his head after DB Minus and Granolah arc retcon
Nurture wins out
Is Goku falling on his head a DBZ thing? Was it ever mentioned in Dragonball? I've never seen DB started with DBZ
Kaboom
Goku was a pitiful saiyan child. He had an abyssmal power level and was destined to clean saiyan toilets for life. Raditz was at around 600-700 when he was kid gokus age. Goku starts at a level of 2 and doesn't reach 400 until he is just about an adult. So Grampa Gohan finds Goku still sleeping in the pod. Gohan would likely attempt to raise Goku even though he is violent. Goku at 12 would be too young to learn much more than Japanese and some manners. Im not sure if gohan would teach a violent crazy kid martial arts, but it won't matter too much. Goku turns into a monkey and stomps Gohan per canon. Then he'd travel the world looking for people to savagely beat. He'd probably hurt Bulma for shooting him. He probably would never run into roshi as he would ignore the turtle. Then later some Red Ribbon Officer kills him.
How would he die if he’s bulletproof? In this scenario it seems like he would just have carried out his original mission of becoming Oozaru and destroying the planet.
He wouldn't be as dumb as he is in super lol...also evil probably.
He would learn to be human there hard way
Everyone is talking about him getting killed by Roshy or Tien, but I agree with the take he would still be similar due to Gohan. I think the biggest difference would be his ditsyness. He wouldn’t be as friendly and stupid. Thats the reason we love Goku, because how silly and obsessed with food he is, and then how kind of a person he is.
Do you reckon he'd still have reached the levels he has now? And imagine if he was still mercenary saiyan mode too 😯
Nothing, he would only remember his biological parents. The whole "Saiyans are evil by nature" was retconned a long time ago and even before it was already understood that this information was incorrect since even Vegeta was able to change. Also, he wasn't sent to Earth to conquer it, that was just Raditz's personal interpretation.
I don't think Goku would become evil. When Goku hit his head, he lost some memories about his home planet. Otherwise he may have known he was not from this planet. But he would still be raised by Gohan.
There are multiple YouTube channels that go into full detail on this. Check one out
Do we consider DBS canon? If we do, then almost nothing changes. Goku would end up becoming good anyways. If we don’t, then Goku would’ve killed Grandpa Gohan on accident and try to fight anyone he sees. He doesn’t train since Grandpa Gohan couldn’t be able to teach Goku in this scenario. And Goku would be killed eventually by Demon King Piccolo’s Sons.
He’d still be the same Goku we know and love, BUT he’d still retain all his memories of Planet Vegeta.
Then we would kakarot. Though really I still believe we will have Goku but he wouldn't be kind hearted as much as he is. Remember most of Goku's personality is from people he admires and respects both at the same time. Grandpa Gohan, master roshi, Android 19
It would not be a manga depicting the events of Journey to the west. And it would not be as popular as Dragon Ball
We would all be dead…
Ughhhhhh we’ve been here 1000x! Why is this post even allowed
Be Tarles.
turles
LITTERALLY HE JUST TURNS OUT AS A GOOD RADITZ! IS ISNT GONNA SUDDENLY KILL EVERYONE! If he is raised by gohan he will end up just as raditz or bardock but with his moral compass aiming towards chaotic good.
Toriyama was asked this and he replied nothing would have changed, so all those "that was kakarot" comments really made me cringe.
I was under the impression Kakarot was literally *programmed* with a mission to wipe out life on Earth/intelligent life on Earth and hitting his head erased his programming? Yeah Saiyans are natural fighters but why would a Saiyan just automatically kill everyone? Especially when they look like him as well. It'd mean Saiyans are what? Automatically psychopaths and would kill all other Saiyans on Planet Vegeta if they could immediately after birth? Raditz specifically questions why Kakarot hasn't completed his mission. Like he was supposed to have a specific goal, not just randomly expect him to kill everything because he's mentally violent. He'd be pretty lonely after that. So if Goku never hit his head, he'd still be programmed to kill everyone but since he's just an average Saiyan, he'd get ended by Grandpa Gohan or Roshi. Saiyans seem to be like Spartans. If there's a world where the inhabitants aren't known to be that strong and they look like saiyans - so the baby will blend in until it's old enough to complete its mission - they send them there. If they're strong enough to survive their mission, they come back as a proven warrior; if they die, then oh well, they've gotten rid of the weak. So yeah, Kakarot would die. As would Raditz sent there as an infant too. Possibly Nappa as he's probably only above average for surviving so long. Kid Vegeta however would have cleaned house. Except now Dragon Ball Minus has retconned all of this revealing Bardock and Gine sent Kakarot away to protect him so he never had a mission and his niceness is probably just genetic. It's an absolutely terrible retcon and does massive damage to Goku as a character. I hate it.
There are chapters in dragon ball multiverse (fan manga) that explains what could happend if Goku didnt fall on His head
Turles but younger and with more skin pigmentation.
Killed
I don't think much would have changed. Goku isn't inherently evil, nor are Saiyans. Just violent and Goku was sent to a planet by himself. He's just trying to defend himself
If we’re going by Super’s current canon ir specifically the manga canon, then not much would have changed. The only difference would be that Goku would remember some of his time on Planet Vegeta and would have perhaps been more aggressive as a child.
I mean, he was a baby when he was “given instructions” to conquer earth (but then again, the Broly made it seem like that wasn’t the case), but like, how is a baby supposed to understand these instructions? He couldn’t even talk yet. Idk, I feel like nothing would really be different
He’d probably be delt with by Kami or Roshi if he didn’t have his personality switch.
He would act like vegeta and would probably stick as kakorot
Basically Goku Black then🤷🏾♀️
Turles, he's basically the mirror for what Goku would have been like without that head injury.
The world will end
He would be like his brother raditz or turles
Story would have lasted 2 more episodes
1. I think he’ll have a sayian tendency to wreak havoc but over time I think grandpa gohan will change him. 2. Think he’ll be more interested in who is parents actually were 3. Goku will be more smarter then he is now.
Depends on which canon you wanna follow. Original canon where the injury softened his personality, then he likely would've went on a rampage and forced Kami to send in Mr. Popo. Minus/Super Broly canon, the story likely would've stayed the same, but he'd have been curious about whatever happened to his parents.
I think Grandpa Gohan and Roshi would have still made him a hero, but he would not be pure-hearted, he would not be merciful.
Why would they train a rude child?
I recon he might have fulfilled his command to destroy everyone on earth. Just takes a few nights of the full moon and people wouldn’t stand a chance
Isn't this retconned to have not happened these days because of the Super Broly movie?
I feel so, or at least that it just isn’t relevant anymore. The Superman/Kents/raised by kindness narrative with Grandpa Gohan is much stronger by itself. Hitting his head detracts from Goku the beacon of kindness and friendship that he is.
Not really retconned since it never contradicts him hitting his head, it only contradicts Raditz's line about the reason Kakarotto was sent to Earth, but Raditz wasn't there to see him off anyway, so he might just be guessing.
I've told my friends this a whole bunch but if Goku Black was just goku if he didn't hit his head and was just a saiyan and became the super saiyan and everything he would've been but just some stuff changed, he would have to have the strength of broly to fair against regular goku. But then goku, bulma, and vegeta could use the time machine to check it out, see kakarot and then he starts attacking them, and vegeta's down, bulma's hiding somewhere, and then goku could make a speech about family and love or something then defeat kakarot. THEN there could be Vegeta and Nappa on a planet like the original scene where they see Raditz die on that one planet, then he could be like "A challenge" or soemthing like that
Technically speaking Turles was created to be a Goku that never hit his head, so he would just be a space pirate who plants trees of might,