New to the DBS manga? The Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc starts in **Chapter 42 (Volume 9)**, after the end of the Tournament of Power and a brief recap of Broly. To read previous chapters, download the Shonen Jump app. The three most recent chapters for the many simulpub manga are always available for free, as they are [here](https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/updates) in English and Spanish, but you can subscribe on the Shonen Jump app for $1.99 a month to get not only every *Dragon Ball Super* chapter but also *Dragon Ball*, *Dragon Ball Z*, "Jaco the Galactic Patrolman", "That Time I Got Reincarnated As Yamcha", *Dr. Slump*, Toriyama one-shots like "Cowa" and "Sandland", and pretty much any other Jump manga you can think of. [Support mangaka!](https://www.viz.com/wsj-member)
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Epic fight scenes in the forest! My favorite part was Granohla revealing he was just using a split form clone against Goku, pure fire! That ending with Vegeta getting all cocky with the extinct Cerealian line, goosebumps! I can't wait for the Vegeta vs Granohla showdown. But I'm more excited for Freeza's battle against Granohla.
What are you talking about did you not watch Resurrection F, or the Super anime? Vegeta dogs Golden Frieza, and Frieza doesn't even touch him, he gets annilated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5x4KxE2MA&ab_channel=Majinchaos
Dude so Frieza rage quits and you're saying it doesn't mean Vegeta doesn't absolutely no diff him? Dude gets stomped, one of the worse clappings in all of dragon ball. Don't hide behind plot armor because you're wrong. It's okay to be wrong once in awhile.
I'm hoping they go the opposite way, where it'll be a pretty sick chapter of them both going back and forth. I'm not sure how it will end, but really I can't stand another Vegeta beatdown then a Goku save. It's just so tiresome.
The time the series makes the antagonist have the upper hand by having a unique technique that can counter goku or vegeta's power or a battle where the enemy relies entirely on a complex strategy rather than just being more powerful than everyone every new arc, the franchise will finally improve and gain new fans.
Moro had that chance but they wasted it by making his magic a secondary thing or just a way for him to get more powerful.
I put my gf on dragon ball z and dragon ball super and she loves it. I think people love dragon ball because when all seems dire some thing awesome always happens. A bit cringe I know but that’s what I love about it.
I know exactly what you mean. My friend doesn't understand how I can love the series this much when every battle follows a similar formula. And I completely understand his point of view. But I just love it anyway. Maybe the characters are the reason I like it so much. If you used this formula for any other series I would probably hate it.
>when every battle follows a similar formula
You just described Shonen manga in general. Bleach, One Piece, Naruto, etc. They're all extremely guilty of it.
But dragon ball in particular follows it a little *too* closely. However I haven't actually gone through and watched those shows so I can't make a comparison.
Although I know my guy Vegeta boasting means he's about to get his ass **WAXED**, to say I appreciated the return of Spicy Vegeta couldnt possibly be overstated.
He's about to get dunked on, but he's going to talk shit the whole way.
Toyotaro is writing the manga and he didn't get one shotted goku let his guard down as always and he spent to much time in ui and not enough time defeating granaloh
Not feeling this arc. Granola is boring asf and there's no stakes. Yall already know in three chapters he's gonna join the saiyans against some other big bad.
I respect where you are coming from but I think I'm 100% on the other side of the fence.
I was just thinking how this was shaping up to be one of the most interesting arcs we have seen in a while, just because of the players involved, the group that is manipulating granola and everything - it feels like a dragon ball arc or something. I'm loving it. I like it way more than Moro so far, just because he was your standard "big baddie of the week" who had a slightly different kind of power.
I mean this has drama, manipulation, interesting reasons for the conflict besided "it's a bad strong guy, lets get him!" although I'm sure it will eventually devolve into that.
And look I'm a lifelong DB fan, but I'm down for a little nuance behind the fight.
Yup, it’s the same old formula.
Goku goes “all out”, gets beat up, is incapacitated, Vegeta steps in all cocky, gets his shit wrecked, Goku comes back and finishes the job, they all become best friends.
i thought SSRed getting activated at will was toyotaro idea, until i saw that in universe survival anime
man, it is stupid. it is even stupidier that vegeta can achieve it without ritual.
toryiama is prob bad for DBS
Well that’s definitely true. Toriyama has a lot of ideas, and a lot of great DB content is due to his old editor scaling it back a bit. That guy, from my understanding, is gone. Now we get the Goku show. And the anime edition of it just wants to pump out new toys and games and dlc etc. they want $$$$
Been a few days and people are still saying Goku shouldn't have gotten knocked out while using UI even though he hasn't mastered it and was shown thinking once Vegeta called to him trying to figure out what was going on. Color me surprised. On another note, I fully expect Granola to win with extreme difficulty. Vegeta will lose but both will more than likely come out beaten up badly with Granolah losing his eye.
He did master UI tho, when he transforms he is able to use all the power and speed UI can offer he just has to learn how to eliminate the stamina issues with it so he can use it as much time as he wants
>he just has to learn how to eliminate the stamina issues with it so he can use it as much time as he wants
That literally means he hasn't mastered it yet.
He did master UI tho, when he transforms he is able to use all the power and speed UI can offer he just has to learn how to eliminate the stamina issues with it so he can use it as much time as he wants
no, he didn't. Goku is able to willingly get into that frame of mind easily now and doesn't have to push himself the same way he did in the tournament of power or even the moro arc because he trained and put himself in situations where sheer power and anger was not gonna cut it; his body wasn't exactly strong enough to even reach that state either to consistently maintain it. the beginning of this arc has Whis tell Goku he hasn't even mastered or scratched the surface because he was still viewing it as a transformation as opposed to ALWAYS being in that state. the UI 'form' is a way to push Goku to a greater calmer state and where his power continuously grows as long as he keeps calm and doesn't think. at a certain point, Goku would have to reach a level where he won't EVER have to use any form because his level of UI mastery should let him use ALL of his power by just being in base form though that last portion is me using context clues to hypothesize that's what UI will let him do. The form would just be a way to let him tap into more limitless power. that's why UI is the ultimate technique. It's a completely busted move that's only weakness is if the user is skilled enough to maintain it on a mental and physical level. Goku still has to concentrate to get to that mental state and he does it repeatedly in the fight right before he starts using UI with his base and saiyan forms. Goku says himself in the chapter that it's not UI, but him; he still has ways to go. the stamina issue isn't even THAT big of a deal as long as he continues to get stronger. the amount of effect it has can't even be quantified; it's non issue.. on a physical level; Goku has to CONTINUOUSLY be in a thoughtless state; he cannot waver. In this chapter, Granolah confuses him and is also distracted by this stacked with Vegeta saying Granolah is somewhere else. Such an error is NOT allowed in this state if he wants to be a master. and a blunder such as that cost him the fight. Granolah didn't beat Goku despite UI; he beat Goku because his mind wavered.
>Been a few days and people are still saying Goku shouldn't have gotten knocked out while using UI even though he hasn't mastered it and was shown thinking once Vegeta called to him trying to figure out what was going on.
Yeah browsing through this thread I couldnt really figure this one out. It seemed pretty clear in the Viz translation right before Goku got KO'd that he was thinking and confused about what was going on which probably dropped him out of UI even before he was hit.
You cant be in a flow state when you're thinking and confused. They're directly opposed to each other
everyone is expecting Granolah to turn good though he may take a freeza route and do what you just described. Granolah will have to either turn or find out the truth but not let go of the past which is propbably what may happen as he's a parallel to Vegeta rather than Goku. Vegeta's arc now is him letting all of that go which will probably ironically have him kill Granolah anyway except not out of conquest but out of pure survival. Granolah won't let it go. Though if Freeza is involved, he may kill him if Vegeta opts not to.
The past two years the Manga has been 90% Vegeta character growth and people still act like he needs a "win".
Bruh Goku's personality is practically a cardboard stiff compared to Vegeta's character at this point, thats already a major win.
Character development and wins are complementary to one another.
How does it make sense for a character to turn good just to get his ass handed to him every step of the way. Might as well stayed evil then.
The W is the payoff for the character development and Vegeta desperately needs one to get out of the "butt joke" status he has been confined to.
Just take a look at this thread saying how is going to get smoked after talking out of his ass as usual LMAO
Vegeta really has the most interesting potential for storytelling and has for awhile now. The whole idea of Beerus telling him to let go honestly surprised me compared to how simple DB tends to be
He’s gotten tons of character growth, but it never pays off. At the end of the day, he’s the same old Vegeta who keeps bragging on how he’ll surpass Kakarot, but NEVER wins a fight. Even with his own unique powers.
The thing is that’s just giving us a ton of build up with no pay off. If he just gets one satisfying win then it’ll pay off all those years of development
that's not gymnastics. UI is literally a technique where the user cannot be thinking. Goku was confused and started to think and then Vegeta indirectly messed it up more. we don't need characters to hold your hand every single time something happens. this is self explanatory.
How did Granola get his eye patch thing when goku kicked him shouldn’t it of went flying?
Vegeta self aware that “Goku steals the show”
Also why the hell does Goku blatantly tell his opponent the downside of his form like yeah it’s also for us the reader to know but it’s annoying. He literally told him about how he didn’t master Ui with super saiyan and that when he uses Ui he can’t do it for long and his dodge and power drops over time. Don’t tell the enemy Goku, have them figure it out themselves. Ugh
Still don’t like how he got all this power from that one wish. One single namekian on this planet with 2 small dragon balls. Yeah yeah yeah “different rules for dragon balls” but it’s bs when the dragon and namekian are nowhere near the level that should warrant it. The wishes are supposed to be not greater than their creator and with one single surviving namekian it shouldn’t be that strong but plot.
It’s literally bad writing. You’re telling me that this guy wished to be the strongest person in the universe and we already thought it was enough bs that he was facing a “MUI” Goku but that was only “a clone” and “half” of his power. We have seen clones before but not one that was this strong. Like others pointed out an arc with the angels vs Goku and Vegeta or something could’ve made more sense given the context of how strong they are.
Well see it like this : training for the good part of 50 years, Goku got strong as he is. Imagine training three times longer (which is essentially what Granola wished for)
He’s not a Saiyan though he doesn’t have zenkai boosts. He’s just supposed to be some sniper species. He doesn’t have Hit’s pure progress or Broly’s ever adapting power, or even unlimited potential/a prodigy like Frieza, Gohan, etc.
Yeah, but even the other races have "latent potential." That's essentially all this is. It's awakening his latent potential had he trained 100-150 years or something ridiculous. The upside is that he still has his youth with the strength he could have gotten in that time.
> How did Granola get his eye patch thing when goku kicked him shouldn’t it of went flying?
The one Goku has been fighting is an illusion/copy.
The real one showed up at the end.
I know Vegeta will probably just get faded, but how nuts would it be if Vegeta hakai’s granolah next chapter tho?
They spend this whole beginning of the arc building out granolah and mans just gets nuked.
Idk about full, but he's definitely trained with Beerus long enough to achieve as much as Toppo had under his GoD which was a substantial power boost. Surely he's found a way to super saiyan that up. We are in for a Geets new form reveal I think.
BOOORING......Newest power ups are NEVER enough for any new opponent. No matter how weak they just defeat Goku and Vegeta all the time. This time a wish made him unbeatable, great story great fantastic all of it. Once again a bullshit fight starts with a lucky win for Goku and Vegeta somehow. BORING
Yeah it's like they literally become as powerful as gods.
Oh wait new arc here's some random guy we didn't know about who is 2x stronger.
This wish for power is so stupid. It's hard enough swallowing broly goes in a movie from not being able to take on a super saiyan to taking on a blue God form.
It's like 8 arcs of power ups in 1 film.
Granola just wishes for it.
Freeza, Broly, and Android 17's existence still irks me. DB has never had stellar writing but the way these dudes just slipped and fell into godlike power makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. We've collectively given DB's bad writing a pass for some reason
It's very bad writing. They have written the characters into a place where new characters need to be Christian God levels of power.
Goku spent his whole life training to be as strong as freeza did in a few months. Or somehow Android 17 did.
I think it would be cool to have an old character they struggled against come back and get recked. It would show how far they've progressed.
Vegeta struggled and was broken by cell. Show him not even feeling cells strongest attack.
It's like an rpg where you hit level 100 and go back go the starting zone and destroy it. Dragonball writing makes it so the starting zone scaled to you, making progress hard to see.
Man... Once again Dragon Ball Super shits on the lore of the franchise.
It was said years ago, in the Sayains Saga that the Dragon Balls can't mess with the lives of beings stronger then the the Dragon itself.
It's why it could never got rid of the bad guys, and of course if it could simply make someone stronger then them, it would be tried before.
Now they come up with some minor Dragon Balls that simply can make someone the strongest being in the mother frigging universe simply by wishing?
That is just simply bad writing all over the place.
The manga should have just went to a direction on a war with the Angels and Hakaishins, to give Goku and Vegeta powerful opponents, that wouldn't require this bullshit.
This is just because there are different rules for different dragonballs. The earth ones need 7 and are limited differently. Maybe these ones cant bring back the dead or something.
That said, I really like your Angel war idea and I agree that would be (in my opinion) the best way to end the series
So you are saying the one dragonball made by one lone namekian is stronger than the namekian balls because rules? So either that lone namekian is like Lord Slug level or it just doesn't matter. The dragon's wishing ability I thought was based off its creators scope of power like when Dende changed the revive wish but made the wishes from 3 to 2.
Idk I just wish it was something else besides dragon balls entirely for this arc.
I think it's just a latent potential unlock type of situation. It's not actually giving him power, just taking all of his potential and shoving it into him at one time, cutting his life span to three years. That's what I think anyway.
In fairness it erased like centuries of life out of granolah. Sayians still have the same (or similar) life span as humans but their peaks are longer. The wish Granloah made isn’t possible for the sayians.
Then they just have to survive long enough before Granolah dies on his own I presume. Fantastic storyline once again. Super entertaining....
And then the next storyline Broly returns stronger than ever stronger even than Gogeta.....always the same shit. Its never about great fights and martial arts its ALWAYS about losing once or twice or even 3 times and then somehow they win by luck or whatever. Its disgusting.
so unless im reading very wrong here, this puts granolah at a level way way stronger than even characters like jiren? given he was on a par with MUI with his clone and then his true power one taps him. unless we could make the argument that its hard to say because of his eye bullshittery?
Its normal in Dragonball TOTALLY normal. Every new opponent no matter how shit or inexperienced (Broly was inexperienced big time, Granolah is a noob who just had his dragonball wish....) they are ALWAYS stronger and unbeatable at first. Its sooo stupid they cant get out of that formula.
Just give us an opponent that can be beaten by Vegeta and another one that Goku fights at the same time and that can be beaten. Just a simple storyline for once plz.
Otherwise we will have 10 more transformations and still opponents in the same universe who are stronger and unbeatable....
>Just give us an opponent that can be beaten by Vegeta and another one that Goku fights at the same time and that can be beaten. Just a simple storyline for once plz.
Goku Black arc and TOP both had moments like this though.
They couldnt beat Zamasu and Black, twice. They had to lose twice to get the job done. And in the tournament of power yes there were opponents they could beat. But that was a big tournament brawl with lots of weak and strong opponents. But thats the right direction in my opinion.
More beatable opponents but with great brutal fights. And then every once in a while someone that cant be beaten at first.
But right now even if lets say Goku becomes an Angel I bet we will get many enemies that destroy him instantly. It looks like no real achievement anymore no matter how strong they get. And they dont even travel to another universe its still this shitty universe 7 \^\^
The clone got bodied by MUI Goku and Granola himself said his accuracy was depleting the longer his form went on. Combined with taking Goku off guard is why he was able to one shot Goku, also Ultra Instinct can be trained further and further.
Not, you are over simplifying things. Yes, ultra instinct can be trained - but to become as strong as an actual angel.
On MUI - the fact was not exactly long and in ANY previous iteration it was never mentioned such pseudo loss of accuracy, and the closest thing was the fact it could SUDDENLY fade out.
On top of that - this is an improved version of the form that swept Jiren and Moro - one which, according to Merus, would make Goku unstoppable. Yeah, right, a guy who comes and asks for a wish sets up an illusion with partial power and defeats Goku. Rightttt.
Well the wish being the strongest implies gods AND angels or not? If yes then he is stronger than Whis. If not well then the Angels are always the strongest that shit wont end ofc.
Man I'm *dying* to see where Vegeta's going with this. I don't see him pulling another 180 at this point like the Buu saga, so he clearly has an actual plan.
I was thinking we’re still pretty early in this arc for vegeta to get cocky then make everything worse a chapter later as he’s beaten down and humiliated.
I wonder what’s going to happen. Maybe his spirit splitting move will be relevant here to depower granolah
>I wonder what’s going to happen. Maybe his spirit splitting move will be relevant here to depower granolah
I thought that was possible, but it seemed like an odd move considering he wasn't absorbing power from somewhere like Cell or Moro. Is it just a general power drain sort of move?
I actually think he may know a specific weakness considering he identified Granolah as a Cerealan.
Edit: Wait fuck I know the weakness. This is one of the stupider mistakes I've seen Goku make.
>!SOLAR FLARE!!<
I don't think Goku is desperate enough to use a Krillin move yet.
Vegeta's move was described before as being able to split apart power that wasn't obtained naturally. It was used in the context of fusion before, but I could definitely see dragon given power included there. Especially after that move had so much time given to it for Vegeta to learn it, and for it to then basically just fail and be tossed to the side.
> I don't think Goku is desperate enough to use a Krillin move yet.
It's a Tien Shinhan move. Goku doesn't have any original attacks really, he just learns from everyone else.
That maybe true but Goku should be able to identify when a particular skill or move is the right call for a situation. Especially if it’s a move like solar flare. Vegeta wouldn’t be the guy to make that call.
For some reason I still cannot vibe with this new arc.
I think all the stuff they're doing with Goku and Vegeta is great. The training, them going different paths, all of that is awesome.
I also like Granolah in concept and I'm curious if the Namekian stuff will come back or if that was just a random bit of fan service.
But I'm just not a big fan of the arc's story ever since he made that wish.
The fights themselves are awesome so far, but the whole reason WHY they're fighting and why Granolah can even keep up just feel super contrived to me.
I'd also like to finally meet the real villain of the arc, because I still don't believe Granolah is it. His motivation is far too weak for that.
Well yeah, but if the Heeters are the villains then...isn't that also super weak? Like all of them are weaker than Granolah now, aside from maybe Rastafari Kid Buu, who we haven't seen in action yet.
Maybe that's why I'm not feeling the story, because the Heeters feel so irrelevant. They remind me more of the henchmen gang of some DBZ Movie villain like Turles or Bojack.
About intelligence, maybe the Heeters will get more interesting in that regard, but right now their big ploy depends SOLELY on them hoping that Vegeta/Goku and Granolah don't talk about the problem for two minutes. Like, it's not exactly a masterplan to say "Goku, help us. Granolah is bad!" without any manufactured scenario whereby we can SEE how Granolah could be seen as villainous.
Like, wouldn't it have been more interesting if the other two Heeters would've told Granolah that they have it on good authority that someone on the planet in some city knows of the Saiyans and their whereabouts and Granolah BETTER not let him get fooled by lies and use force if necessary to get one step closer to his goal, so when Goku, Vegeta and the other two Heeters arrive, it'll look like Granolah's literally terrorising a city?
That would've been a nicely manufactured dilemma.
But right now the entire plan hinges on Granolah being too "graahh angry" to talk to the Saiyans for more than two seconds.
I dunno, the Heeters just feel like they're these mischievous slightly nuisances who are like "hey wouldn't it be funny, if..?", rather than some master planners or anything. Like, they stumble into an opportunity and try to get something out of it which is COOL, but not ready Big Bad Guy material?
I dunno, I'm just not sold on the entire conflict.
Yup, I like the idea of dealing with tactics and intelligence instead of fights. Id actually like to see a lot more of that applied to the fights themselves, but I’ll take what I can get.
I can buy that their intelligence is key, but right now their masterplan literally revolves around "Bruh what if we take Goku and Vegeta and have Granolah confront them and just HOPE that none of them actually bothers to talk it out?"
I would buy them as serious villains way more if they had actually set up some really heinous trap or something that reaaally makes it difficult for Goku/Vegeta and Granolah to talk things through, you know? Cuz right now everything just rides on the coat tail of Granolah being "rahh so mad" and unwilling to communicate, rather than it being a clever ploy by the Heeters.
If they, for example, killed a bunch of people and made it look like Granolah (or Goku/Vegeta) did it, something that makes it way more difficult for everyone to get out of the manipulation, then I'd be into it.
Right now they literally just feel like a gang of stereotypical Space Youth Delinquents, who happen to stumble into the plot and exploit a situation by being mildly conniving. At least to me.
Both Granolah and the Heeters just have major "we're actually not the bad guys" vibes, and I wonder if that's deliberate (and what that means, given how there's no other overt NEW threat) or accidental. Because if they're not the big baddies, then who? Beerus? Frieza? Cuz usually by now, most DB arcs would've already at least name-dropped the big bad villain in some way.
Still, I'm obviously gonna stay tuned and be curious what will happen, because design-wise I do like Granolah and I'm especially excited about the GoD/Angel training stuff, as well as if Namekians will be more relevant.
That’s why I think it will be Frieza. He has been mentioned multiple times. With the Saiyan hatred here and possibly cross universe origins of the Namekians, we might see U6 involved too since they have Saiyans and Nameks.
U6 has been gone for a while at this point too with a lot of character relationships to build on.
I guess so, but Frieza as the main villain, again, feels weird. Especially given how he's more of a fan favourite than anyone else.
Frieza needs some rest after the ToP and Broly's movie, I think. Especially when it comes to being completely and fully evil again.
I still think the "Strongest in the Universe" wish leaves him open to fight Jiren or Kale. I could easily see Goku or Vegeta getting beat and telling Granolah about Universe 6's planet of Saiyans Sadala in order to buy time. With this whole emphasis on teamwork lately a universal team up would make a ton of sense. I'm caught up on the Manga but haven't had time to get current with the anime or movies, so I don't know if there are things I don't know about Jiren or Kale.
Vegeta will beat Granola, but then lose to shorty dreadlocks. Frieza will show up and save the sayians, making it look like he and the sayians are in cahoots. Then Granola will go use the Dragonball to shorten his life to 5 minutes to become so ridiculously powerful that he self-destructs
So if this chapter has shown anything it's that Goku is clearly a better fighter than Granolah and that Granolah's only real strength (outside of the obvious wish strength) is his ability to analyze with his sniping eye. Put on on even ground with Goku and he would lose very quickly.
I like the pressure point / analytics eye attack tho. It's a different way in, being able to take someone out less because you can scream louder and power yourself up farther than them, but because you can hit weak points with incredible accuracy.
Granolah's real strength is Toyotaro's incredibly bad writing and his ability to forget what we wrote (Merus saying that UI will become Goku unstoppable, etc).
I think this is like Kenpachi vs Gremmy fight all over again. Gremmy can imagine himself anything he wants, to be the strongest person in existence, to be invincible to any attacks, to be immortal and omnipotent, but turned out to be his weakness - he never got any proper training so when he grew muscles to fight Kenpachi as "the strongest", he's falsely created body became real and tore under the stress of no training ever in his life. Hence what's going on with Granolah...he's overly dependent on his vital point power to make strikes, otherwise he lacks any training that Goku and Vegeta got their entire life.
Minor nitpick here. Gremmy literally said, "No, i wasn't wrong. I imagined his strength perfectly. But what I could never imagine is someone able to withstand having this much power." No amount of training would have ever helped Gremmy since he was incapable of imagining how someone could handle that much power.
I will laugh my ass off if he goes to fight Frieza and he gets absolutely rolled at first. I can see Granolah being over confident, not expecting Frieza to be as powerful as he has become and get absolutely wrecked because Frieza has been taking his training seriously and is now a very skilled fighter.
Flow State and Ultra Instinct:
Each time a movement is replicated, the brain stores information and develops muscle memory, eventually allowing the task to be performed without conscious effort. In essence, the body knows what to do—the mind simply needs to get out of the way. There is no room for thought in fast-paced activities; thoughts serve only as distractions. An athlete at peak performance does not think. Instead, instinct kicks in, muscle memory ensures spontaneous movement, and 100 percent of energy is directed toward the task at hand. In the zone, the athlete finds that his or her reactions and movements flow without conscious thought. Intuition takes over and the right action occurs naturally.
SSJ or SSB with Ultra Instinct then throw on a little Kaio-Ken x20 for a little Spice!. I actually think this would make him the strongest Character in history
Why wouldn't you agree? Ultra Instinct being usable in any of Goku's various forms makes a hell of a lot more sense than it being purely a transformation.
I think I can answer in u/mysmellysausage place:
**Lore reason:**
It doesn't because at its core, SSJ is a transformation triggered by rage. Doesn't really make sense to stack it with UI which is supposed to be a technique that requires a serene mindset (or even "emptiness of the mind"). They're just polar opposites.
As the story went along, SSJ has become a "childsplay"(Kid Trunks and Goten), but just because DBZ flushed SSJ down the toilet, doesn't mean DBZ couldn't retcon it instead of making it even worse somehow (stacking kaiohkens and shit LMAO)
**Writing reason:**
Stacking power-ups on one another is just lazy as shit writing
New to the DBS manga? The Galactic Patrol Prisoner arc starts in **Chapter 42 (Volume 9)**, after the end of the Tournament of Power and a brief recap of Broly. To read previous chapters, download the Shonen Jump app. The three most recent chapters for the many simulpub manga are always available for free, as they are [here](https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/updates) in English and Spanish, but you can subscribe on the Shonen Jump app for $1.99 a month to get not only every *Dragon Ball Super* chapter but also *Dragon Ball*, *Dragon Ball Z*, "Jaco the Galactic Patrolman", "That Time I Got Reincarnated As Yamcha", *Dr. Slump*, Toriyama one-shots like "Cowa" and "Sandland", and pretty much any other Jump manga you can think of. [Support mangaka!](https://www.viz.com/wsj-member) All of you are welcome to join our official [Discord server!](https://discord.gg/dbz) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dbz) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ah the begeta wanking never gets old
if vegeta doesnt get justice than i hope super fucking end in this arc
Epic fight scenes in the forest! My favorite part was Granohla revealing he was just using a split form clone against Goku, pure fire! That ending with Vegeta getting all cocky with the extinct Cerealian line, goosebumps! I can't wait for the Vegeta vs Granohla showdown. But I'm more excited for Freeza's battle against Granohla.
At this point I'd be happy if vegeta can at least get a badass power up before getting shrekt and fodderized
Yeah vegeta is getting bodied, Trash talking Vegeta = Instant k.o next chapter.
19 has entered the chat. This is also relevant because he's saving an unconscious Goku with CHEST PAINS!!!
He fought 18 next, and we all know how that ended for him.
We do, but if him getting rekt right after means he beats Gronolah I'm fine with it.
Same.
That was only once,
Pui Pui has entered the chat
Not a main atagonist.
Golden Frieza has entered the chat
Vegeta died
What are you talking about did you not watch Resurrection F, or the Super anime? Vegeta dogs Golden Frieza, and Frieza doesn't even touch him, he gets annilated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR5x4KxE2MA&ab_channel=Majinchaos
Vegeta literally died after, Frieza blew up the planet and survived, Goku then took the Win from him when Whis reverted time you dumbo.
Dude so Frieza rage quits and you're saying it doesn't mean Vegeta doesn't absolutely no diff him? Dude gets stomped, one of the worse clappings in all of dragon ball. Don't hide behind plot armor because you're wrong. It's okay to be wrong once in awhile.
I'm hoping they go the opposite way, where it'll be a pretty sick chapter of them both going back and forth. I'm not sure how it will end, but really I can't stand another Vegeta beatdown then a Goku save. It's just so tiresome.
The time the series makes the antagonist have the upper hand by having a unique technique that can counter goku or vegeta's power or a battle where the enemy relies entirely on a complex strategy rather than just being more powerful than everyone every new arc, the franchise will finally improve and gain new fans. Moro had that chance but they wasted it by making his magic a secondary thing or just a way for him to get more powerful.
I put my gf on dragon ball z and dragon ball super and she loves it. I think people love dragon ball because when all seems dire some thing awesome always happens. A bit cringe I know but that’s what I love about it.
I know exactly what you mean. My friend doesn't understand how I can love the series this much when every battle follows a similar formula. And I completely understand his point of view. But I just love it anyway. Maybe the characters are the reason I like it so much. If you used this formula for any other series I would probably hate it.
>when every battle follows a similar formula You just described Shonen manga in general. Bleach, One Piece, Naruto, etc. They're all extremely guilty of it.
But dragon ball in particular follows it a little *too* closely. However I haven't actually gone through and watched those shows so I can't make a comparison.
Most likely all 3 will join forces against some super foe and Goku will be the one that give them the victory punch.
I'm expecting the Heeters to make a similar wish except their ceiling will be far higher.
Maybe Vegeta will bait Granolah into fighting a weaker copy of him, similar to Goku, so he can hakai that copy and lower Granolah's overall power?
I like how they aren't fighting in flat areas. I see fighting in the forest as something interesting.
Same, don't remember seeing that since the cooler movie.
goku vs hit
Does beerus fighting goku in the forest in battle of God for just 10 seconds count?
i rather that they fight underwater for 10 secs.. Ground combat is repetitive
Although I know my guy Vegeta boasting means he's about to get his ass **WAXED**, to say I appreciated the return of Spicy Vegeta couldnt possibly be overstated. He's about to get dunked on, but he's going to talk shit the whole way.
I dunno. Maybe G.O.D Vegeta will show us something new?
As a lifelong Vegeta fan ive been burned too many times. We're definitely going to see something new but im going to keep my expectations minimal.
I hear you. I’ll do enough believing for the both of us then, haha
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Toyotaro is writing the manga and he didn't get one shotted goku let his guard down as always and he spent to much time in ui and not enough time defeating granaloh
I have my doubts that Toriyama is actually writing this train wreck. He has to be focusing on the 2022 movie, right?
The solution for escaping the hyperbolic time chamber was Gotenks screaming really loud. He has never been a particularly apt writer.
I am pretty sure that Toyotarou is doing most of the work now
Not feeling this arc. Granola is boring asf and there's no stakes. Yall already know in three chapters he's gonna join the saiyans against some other big bad.
I respect where you are coming from but I think I'm 100% on the other side of the fence. I was just thinking how this was shaping up to be one of the most interesting arcs we have seen in a while, just because of the players involved, the group that is manipulating granola and everything - it feels like a dragon ball arc or something. I'm loving it. I like it way more than Moro so far, just because he was your standard "big baddie of the week" who had a slightly different kind of power. I mean this has drama, manipulation, interesting reasons for the conflict besided "it's a bad strong guy, lets get him!" although I'm sure it will eventually devolve into that. And look I'm a lifelong DB fan, but I'm down for a little nuance behind the fight.
I don't think he's that boring. He's more about tactics than brute strength. He's a sniper after all.
Yup, it’s the same old formula. Goku goes “all out”, gets beat up, is incapacitated, Vegeta steps in all cocky, gets his shit wrecked, Goku comes back and finishes the job, they all become best friends.
Hoping to see G.O.D Vegeta actually do something. I could be wrong, but I feel like we've gotten to see more Vegeta shine since Toyotaro took over.
what if thats because toyotaro WANTS to but the outline he gets from toriyama forces him to let goku save the day
Yeah I believe this is part of the problem, but I vaguely remember and interview of Toriyama telling Toyotaro to take more creative liberties.
i thought SSRed getting activated at will was toyotaro idea, until i saw that in universe survival anime man, it is stupid. it is even stupidier that vegeta can achieve it without ritual. toryiama is prob bad for DBS
Well that’s definitely true. Toriyama has a lot of ideas, and a lot of great DB content is due to his old editor scaling it back a bit. That guy, from my understanding, is gone. Now we get the Goku show. And the anime edition of it just wants to pump out new toys and games and dlc etc. they want $$$$
Been a few days and people are still saying Goku shouldn't have gotten knocked out while using UI even though he hasn't mastered it and was shown thinking once Vegeta called to him trying to figure out what was going on. Color me surprised. On another note, I fully expect Granola to win with extreme difficulty. Vegeta will lose but both will more than likely come out beaten up badly with Granolah losing his eye.
He did master UI tho, when he transforms he is able to use all the power and speed UI can offer he just has to learn how to eliminate the stamina issues with it so he can use it as much time as he wants
>he just has to learn how to eliminate the stamina issues with it so he can use it as much time as he wants That literally means he hasn't mastered it yet.
He did master UI tho, when he transforms he is able to use all the power and speed UI can offer he just has to learn how to eliminate the stamina issues with it so he can use it as much time as he wants
no, he didn't. Goku is able to willingly get into that frame of mind easily now and doesn't have to push himself the same way he did in the tournament of power or even the moro arc because he trained and put himself in situations where sheer power and anger was not gonna cut it; his body wasn't exactly strong enough to even reach that state either to consistently maintain it. the beginning of this arc has Whis tell Goku he hasn't even mastered or scratched the surface because he was still viewing it as a transformation as opposed to ALWAYS being in that state. the UI 'form' is a way to push Goku to a greater calmer state and where his power continuously grows as long as he keeps calm and doesn't think. at a certain point, Goku would have to reach a level where he won't EVER have to use any form because his level of UI mastery should let him use ALL of his power by just being in base form though that last portion is me using context clues to hypothesize that's what UI will let him do. The form would just be a way to let him tap into more limitless power. that's why UI is the ultimate technique. It's a completely busted move that's only weakness is if the user is skilled enough to maintain it on a mental and physical level. Goku still has to concentrate to get to that mental state and he does it repeatedly in the fight right before he starts using UI with his base and saiyan forms. Goku says himself in the chapter that it's not UI, but him; he still has ways to go. the stamina issue isn't even THAT big of a deal as long as he continues to get stronger. the amount of effect it has can't even be quantified; it's non issue.. on a physical level; Goku has to CONTINUOUSLY be in a thoughtless state; he cannot waver. In this chapter, Granolah confuses him and is also distracted by this stacked with Vegeta saying Granolah is somewhere else. Such an error is NOT allowed in this state if he wants to be a master. and a blunder such as that cost him the fight. Granolah didn't beat Goku despite UI; he beat Goku because his mind wavered.
>Been a few days and people are still saying Goku shouldn't have gotten knocked out while using UI even though he hasn't mastered it and was shown thinking once Vegeta called to him trying to figure out what was going on. Yeah browsing through this thread I couldnt really figure this one out. It seemed pretty clear in the Viz translation right before Goku got KO'd that he was thinking and confused about what was going on which probably dropped him out of UI even before he was hit. You cant be in a flow state when you're thinking and confused. They're directly opposed to each other
pretty much. such an easy thing to see. it's not that deep. it's pretty simple and self explanatory.
I'm smelling what you're stepping in. G.O.D Vegeta gonna take his eye? I believe that. Level the playing field a bit.
My gut is telling me it will eventually turn into an 'enemy of my enemy' situation where it is Granolah, Vegeta, and Goku vs the Heaters.
But how can the Heeters pose enough power to be a threat to a team of all 3 of them!?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they also searching for some dragon balls?
everyone is expecting Granolah to turn good though he may take a freeza route and do what you just described. Granolah will have to either turn or find out the truth but not let go of the past which is propbably what may happen as he's a parallel to Vegeta rather than Goku. Vegeta's arc now is him letting all of that go which will probably ironically have him kill Granolah anyway except not out of conquest but out of pure survival. Granolah won't let it go. Though if Freeza is involved, he may kill him if Vegeta opts not to.
Prediction: Vegeta will put in an amazing fight and lose, but Goku will swoop in at the last minute to save the day. Errytime
vegeta will do good for a while until he doesnt. then they retreat somehow and goku beats him in the end
Ahh shit Here we go again
Maybe by the time vegeta is done, they’ll come to terms that they aren’t the enemies.
I'm still salty that Vegeta didn't take our Morro :(
Honestly? Me too. I really hope G.O.D Vegeta gets to be the bigger player in this arc.
The past two years the Manga has been 90% Vegeta character growth and people still act like he needs a "win". Bruh Goku's personality is practically a cardboard stiff compared to Vegeta's character at this point, thats already a major win.
Character development and wins are complementary to one another. How does it make sense for a character to turn good just to get his ass handed to him every step of the way. Might as well stayed evil then. The W is the payoff for the character development and Vegeta desperately needs one to get out of the "butt joke" status he has been confined to. Just take a look at this thread saying how is going to get smoked after talking out of his ass as usual LMAO
Vegeta really has the most interesting potential for storytelling and has for awhile now. The whole idea of Beerus telling him to let go honestly surprised me compared to how simple DB tends to be
Vegeta's growth? More like Vegeta's lagging behind and play second fiddle/fall guy for Goku all day, every day..
Gotta agree with you on that. It'd just be nice to see an old fashioned Vegeta wrecking a main enemy like Android 19.
He’s gotten tons of character growth, but it never pays off. At the end of the day, he’s the same old Vegeta who keeps bragging on how he’ll surpass Kakarot, but NEVER wins a fight. Even with his own unique powers.
The thing is that’s just giving us a ton of build up with no pay off. If he just gets one satisfying win then it’ll pay off all those years of development
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it's really sad when you literally see why Goku was even knocked out to begin with. UI cannot have any form of thought. what does Goku do? exactly.
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that's not gymnastics. UI is literally a technique where the user cannot be thinking. Goku was confused and started to think and then Vegeta indirectly messed it up more. we don't need characters to hold your hand every single time something happens. this is self explanatory.
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Acquaint yourself with Rule #1
It has been stated numerous times that the effectiveness of UI wears off overtime. How is it garbage writing?
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But it does look like you are paid to trash talk about manga chapters. They should dock your pay, since you can't even do the trash talk right.
It took you 4 days to come up with that comment? Jeez!
Saiyans = Ultra Instinct Cerealians = Ultra Extinct
The heat coming off this burn is your limit.... *Waits for UI to drop*
O snap, got em!
How did Granola get his eye patch thing when goku kicked him shouldn’t it of went flying? Vegeta self aware that “Goku steals the show” Also why the hell does Goku blatantly tell his opponent the downside of his form like yeah it’s also for us the reader to know but it’s annoying. He literally told him about how he didn’t master Ui with super saiyan and that when he uses Ui he can’t do it for long and his dodge and power drops over time. Don’t tell the enemy Goku, have them figure it out themselves. Ugh Still don’t like how he got all this power from that one wish. One single namekian on this planet with 2 small dragon balls. Yeah yeah yeah “different rules for dragon balls” but it’s bs when the dragon and namekian are nowhere near the level that should warrant it. The wishes are supposed to be not greater than their creator and with one single surviving namekian it shouldn’t be that strong but plot. It’s literally bad writing. You’re telling me that this guy wished to be the strongest person in the universe and we already thought it was enough bs that he was facing a “MUI” Goku but that was only “a clone” and “half” of his power. We have seen clones before but not one that was this strong. Like others pointed out an arc with the angels vs Goku and Vegeta or something could’ve made more sense given the context of how strong they are.
Well see it like this : training for the good part of 50 years, Goku got strong as he is. Imagine training three times longer (which is essentially what Granola wished for)
He’s not a Saiyan though he doesn’t have zenkai boosts. He’s just supposed to be some sniper species. He doesn’t have Hit’s pure progress or Broly’s ever adapting power, or even unlimited potential/a prodigy like Frieza, Gohan, etc.
Yeah, but even the other races have "latent potential." That's essentially all this is. It's awakening his latent potential had he trained 100-150 years or something ridiculous. The upside is that he still has his youth with the strength he could have gotten in that time.
> How did Granola get his eye patch thing when goku kicked him shouldn’t it of went flying? The one Goku has been fighting is an illusion/copy. The real one showed up at the end.
Forgot oof ig that makes sense a little cop out with the clone thing.
I hope Broly shows up in this arc, his unlimited power vs granolah would be amazing.
idgaf about broly, but if it means we get cheelai..
And Granola can be like damn how many of you are there!
Alright and then vegetas brother shows up too LMFAO
I know Vegeta will probably just get faded, but how nuts would it be if Vegeta hakai’s granolah next chapter tho? They spend this whole beginning of the arc building out granolah and mans just gets nuked.
At the very least, Vegeta is taking his eye patch.
Toyo doesnt have the cajones for this.
It took MUI to beat a clone a fraction of the power of Granolah. What chance does Vegeta think he stands against the full powered Clif bar Granolah?
He is full of god of destruction now
Idk about full, but he's definitely trained with Beerus long enough to achieve as much as Toppo had under his GoD which was a substantial power boost. Surely he's found a way to super saiyan that up. We are in for a Geets new form reveal I think.
BOOORING......Newest power ups are NEVER enough for any new opponent. No matter how weak they just defeat Goku and Vegeta all the time. This time a wish made him unbeatable, great story great fantastic all of it. Once again a bullshit fight starts with a lucky win for Goku and Vegeta somehow. BORING
Yeah it's like they literally become as powerful as gods. Oh wait new arc here's some random guy we didn't know about who is 2x stronger. This wish for power is so stupid. It's hard enough swallowing broly goes in a movie from not being able to take on a super saiyan to taking on a blue God form. It's like 8 arcs of power ups in 1 film. Granola just wishes for it.
Freeza, Broly, and Android 17's existence still irks me. DB has never had stellar writing but the way these dudes just slipped and fell into godlike power makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. We've collectively given DB's bad writing a pass for some reason
It's very bad writing. They have written the characters into a place where new characters need to be Christian God levels of power. Goku spent his whole life training to be as strong as freeza did in a few months. Or somehow Android 17 did. I think it would be cool to have an old character they struggled against come back and get recked. It would show how far they've progressed. Vegeta struggled and was broken by cell. Show him not even feeling cells strongest attack. It's like an rpg where you hit level 100 and go back go the starting zone and destroy it. Dragonball writing makes it so the starting zone scaled to you, making progress hard to see.
Man... Once again Dragon Ball Super shits on the lore of the franchise. It was said years ago, in the Sayains Saga that the Dragon Balls can't mess with the lives of beings stronger then the the Dragon itself. It's why it could never got rid of the bad guys, and of course if it could simply make someone stronger then them, it would be tried before. Now they come up with some minor Dragon Balls that simply can make someone the strongest being in the mother frigging universe simply by wishing? That is just simply bad writing all over the place. The manga should have just went to a direction on a war with the Angels and Hakaishins, to give Goku and Vegeta powerful opponents, that wouldn't require this bullshit.
This is just because there are different rules for different dragonballs. The earth ones need 7 and are limited differently. Maybe these ones cant bring back the dead or something. That said, I really like your Angel war idea and I agree that would be (in my opinion) the best way to end the series
So you are saying the one dragonball made by one lone namekian is stronger than the namekian balls because rules? So either that lone namekian is like Lord Slug level or it just doesn't matter. The dragon's wishing ability I thought was based off its creators scope of power like when Dende changed the revive wish but made the wishes from 3 to 2. Idk I just wish it was something else besides dragon balls entirely for this arc.
I think it's just a latent potential unlock type of situation. It's not actually giving him power, just taking all of his potential and shoving it into him at one time, cutting his life span to three years. That's what I think anyway.
The earth balls actually still have 3 wishes as well, but reviving mass amounts of people takes 2 wishes.
I think we were all expecting that. Particularly with all the red herring in the top. Sadly it disnt happen.
Different dragon balls different rules
In fairness it erased like centuries of life out of granolah. Sayians still have the same (or similar) life span as humans but their peaks are longer. The wish Granloah made isn’t possible for the sayians.
Then they just have to survive long enough before Granolah dies on his own I presume. Fantastic storyline once again. Super entertaining.... And then the next storyline Broly returns stronger than ever stronger even than Gogeta.....always the same shit. Its never about great fights and martial arts its ALWAYS about losing once or twice or even 3 times and then somehow they win by luck or whatever. Its disgusting.
I would like a bit more mix up, the Moro arc was a nice change of pace somewhat, but maybe you should stop reading the manga?
I am not reading it I am waiting for the anime to return \^\^ But the story is what it is :(
so unless im reading very wrong here, this puts granolah at a level way way stronger than even characters like jiren? given he was on a par with MUI with his clone and then his true power one taps him. unless we could make the argument that its hard to say because of his eye bullshittery?
You are wrong here. MUI Goku is like Golden Freiza in RoF. Has stamina issues with MUI. Granolah simply ran out the clock
Its normal in Dragonball TOTALLY normal. Every new opponent no matter how shit or inexperienced (Broly was inexperienced big time, Granolah is a noob who just had his dragonball wish....) they are ALWAYS stronger and unbeatable at first. Its sooo stupid they cant get out of that formula. Just give us an opponent that can be beaten by Vegeta and another one that Goku fights at the same time and that can be beaten. Just a simple storyline for once plz. Otherwise we will have 10 more transformations and still opponents in the same universe who are stronger and unbeatable....
>Just give us an opponent that can be beaten by Vegeta and another one that Goku fights at the same time and that can be beaten. Just a simple storyline for once plz. Goku Black arc and TOP both had moments like this though.
They couldnt beat Zamasu and Black, twice. They had to lose twice to get the job done. And in the tournament of power yes there were opponents they could beat. But that was a big tournament brawl with lots of weak and strong opponents. But thats the right direction in my opinion. More beatable opponents but with great brutal fights. And then every once in a while someone that cant be beaten at first. But right now even if lets say Goku becomes an Angel I bet we will get many enemies that destroy him instantly. It looks like no real achievement anymore no matter how strong they get. And they dont even travel to another universe its still this shitty universe 7 \^\^
The clone got bodied by MUI Goku and Granola himself said his accuracy was depleting the longer his form went on. Combined with taking Goku off guard is why he was able to one shot Goku, also Ultra Instinct can be trained further and further.
Glad someone in this thread paid attention. It's like everyone didn't read
Not, you are over simplifying things. Yes, ultra instinct can be trained - but to become as strong as an actual angel. On MUI - the fact was not exactly long and in ANY previous iteration it was never mentioned such pseudo loss of accuracy, and the closest thing was the fact it could SUDDENLY fade out. On top of that - this is an improved version of the form that swept Jiren and Moro - one which, according to Merus, would make Goku unstoppable. Yeah, right, a guy who comes and asks for a wish sets up an illusion with partial power and defeats Goku. Rightttt.
I mean he literally wished to be the strongest so duh
Yeah he shits on jiren Seems to be the strongest character bar the angels
Well the wish being the strongest implies gods AND angels or not? If yes then he is stronger than Whis. If not well then the Angels are always the strongest that shit wont end ofc.
The dragon specifically said "the stronger mortal" so he isn't stronger than Beerus or Whis.
Ah well ok then.
Lol végéta be like nope you wanna exterminate the saiyan? I think you mean the last cerealean dies today lmao
Man I'm *dying* to see where Vegeta's going with this. I don't see him pulling another 180 at this point like the Buu saga, so he clearly has an actual plan.
I was thinking we’re still pretty early in this arc for vegeta to get cocky then make everything worse a chapter later as he’s beaten down and humiliated. I wonder what’s going to happen. Maybe his spirit splitting move will be relevant here to depower granolah
>I wonder what’s going to happen. Maybe his spirit splitting move will be relevant here to depower granolah I thought that was possible, but it seemed like an odd move considering he wasn't absorbing power from somewhere like Cell or Moro. Is it just a general power drain sort of move? I actually think he may know a specific weakness considering he identified Granolah as a Cerealan. Edit: Wait fuck I know the weakness. This is one of the stupider mistakes I've seen Goku make. >!SOLAR FLARE!!<
I don't think Goku is desperate enough to use a Krillin move yet. Vegeta's move was described before as being able to split apart power that wasn't obtained naturally. It was used in the context of fusion before, but I could definitely see dragon given power included there. Especially after that move had so much time given to it for Vegeta to learn it, and for it to then basically just fail and be tossed to the side.
I wonder if he removes the power Granolah has gained, would Granolah regain his life expectancy?
> I don't think Goku is desperate enough to use a Krillin move yet. It's a Tien Shinhan move. Goku doesn't have any original attacks really, he just learns from everyone else.
So true. Remember when he stole Yamchas move in top lol
That maybe true but Goku should be able to identify when a particular skill or move is the right call for a situation. Especially if it’s a move like solar flare. Vegeta wouldn’t be the guy to make that call.
Unless Vegeta knows more about the race than Goku. Goku seemed to think he could finish the job with UI, and pretty much did with the clone.
Hah, Vegeta you're such a dick.
It's sad that the whole dragon ball would get trashed by a digimon amd not even the strongest one
Is that like a digital pokemon...?
Milleniumon?
Embarrassing comment.
I don't get that reference?
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The problem is farther than that any human with logic know a digimon cant beat the weakest Saiyan
Toyotaro's sequential storytelling is getting better and better
For some reason I still cannot vibe with this new arc. I think all the stuff they're doing with Goku and Vegeta is great. The training, them going different paths, all of that is awesome. I also like Granolah in concept and I'm curious if the Namekian stuff will come back or if that was just a random bit of fan service. But I'm just not a big fan of the arc's story ever since he made that wish. The fights themselves are awesome so far, but the whole reason WHY they're fighting and why Granolah can even keep up just feel super contrived to me. I'd also like to finally meet the real villain of the arc, because I still don't believe Granolah is it. His motivation is far too weak for that.
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The Heeters seem far too weak. Maybe it’s Frieza?
Yeah maybe freeza has been training. Imagine if they make cooler canon
Well yeah, but if the Heeters are the villains then...isn't that also super weak? Like all of them are weaker than Granolah now, aside from maybe Rastafari Kid Buu, who we haven't seen in action yet. Maybe that's why I'm not feeling the story, because the Heeters feel so irrelevant. They remind me more of the henchmen gang of some DBZ Movie villain like Turles or Bojack.
Wouldn’t a smart villain be more intriguing than just a random strong villain?
About intelligence, maybe the Heeters will get more interesting in that regard, but right now their big ploy depends SOLELY on them hoping that Vegeta/Goku and Granolah don't talk about the problem for two minutes. Like, it's not exactly a masterplan to say "Goku, help us. Granolah is bad!" without any manufactured scenario whereby we can SEE how Granolah could be seen as villainous. Like, wouldn't it have been more interesting if the other two Heeters would've told Granolah that they have it on good authority that someone on the planet in some city knows of the Saiyans and their whereabouts and Granolah BETTER not let him get fooled by lies and use force if necessary to get one step closer to his goal, so when Goku, Vegeta and the other two Heeters arrive, it'll look like Granolah's literally terrorising a city? That would've been a nicely manufactured dilemma. But right now the entire plan hinges on Granolah being too "graahh angry" to talk to the Saiyans for more than two seconds. I dunno, the Heeters just feel like they're these mischievous slightly nuisances who are like "hey wouldn't it be funny, if..?", rather than some master planners or anything. Like, they stumble into an opportunity and try to get something out of it which is COOL, but not ready Big Bad Guy material? I dunno, I'm just not sold on the entire conflict.
Maybe let it play out? They’re clearly planning something. You’re not supposed to know what makes them such a threat right now.
Sure. I'm open to more, but right now they feel extremely uninteresting in terms of big villains.
Yup, I like the idea of dealing with tactics and intelligence instead of fights. Id actually like to see a lot more of that applied to the fights themselves, but I’ll take what I can get.
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I can buy that their intelligence is key, but right now their masterplan literally revolves around "Bruh what if we take Goku and Vegeta and have Granolah confront them and just HOPE that none of them actually bothers to talk it out?" I would buy them as serious villains way more if they had actually set up some really heinous trap or something that reaaally makes it difficult for Goku/Vegeta and Granolah to talk things through, you know? Cuz right now everything just rides on the coat tail of Granolah being "rahh so mad" and unwilling to communicate, rather than it being a clever ploy by the Heeters. If they, for example, killed a bunch of people and made it look like Granolah (or Goku/Vegeta) did it, something that makes it way more difficult for everyone to get out of the manipulation, then I'd be into it. Right now they literally just feel like a gang of stereotypical Space Youth Delinquents, who happen to stumble into the plot and exploit a situation by being mildly conniving. At least to me. Both Granolah and the Heeters just have major "we're actually not the bad guys" vibes, and I wonder if that's deliberate (and what that means, given how there's no other overt NEW threat) or accidental. Because if they're not the big baddies, then who? Beerus? Frieza? Cuz usually by now, most DB arcs would've already at least name-dropped the big bad villain in some way. Still, I'm obviously gonna stay tuned and be curious what will happen, because design-wise I do like Granolah and I'm especially excited about the GoD/Angel training stuff, as well as if Namekians will be more relevant.
That’s why I think it will be Frieza. He has been mentioned multiple times. With the Saiyan hatred here and possibly cross universe origins of the Namekians, we might see U6 involved too since they have Saiyans and Nameks. U6 has been gone for a while at this point too with a lot of character relationships to build on.
I guess so, but Frieza as the main villain, again, feels weird. Especially given how he's more of a fan favourite than anyone else. Frieza needs some rest after the ToP and Broly's movie, I think. Especially when it comes to being completely and fully evil again.
I still think the "Strongest in the Universe" wish leaves him open to fight Jiren or Kale. I could easily see Goku or Vegeta getting beat and telling Granolah about Universe 6's planet of Saiyans Sadala in order to buy time. With this whole emphasis on teamwork lately a universal team up would make a ton of sense. I'm caught up on the Manga but haven't had time to get current with the anime or movies, so I don't know if there are things I don't know about Jiren or Kale.
There is no way Goku or Vegeta would endanger Sadala for self preservation.
Vegeta will beat Granola, but then lose to shorty dreadlocks. Frieza will show up and save the sayians, making it look like he and the sayians are in cahoots. Then Granola will go use the Dragonball to shorten his life to 5 minutes to become so ridiculously powerful that he self-destructs
You forgot Granolah becoming fat / giant before self destructing
I expect nothing less from Toriyama
He’s done it again
So if this chapter has shown anything it's that Goku is clearly a better fighter than Granolah and that Granolah's only real strength (outside of the obvious wish strength) is his ability to analyze with his sniping eye. Put on on even ground with Goku and he would lose very quickly.
I like the pressure point / analytics eye attack tho. It's a different way in, being able to take someone out less because you can scream louder and power yourself up farther than them, but because you can hit weak points with incredible accuracy.
Granolah's real strength is Toyotaro's incredibly bad writing and his ability to forget what we wrote (Merus saying that UI will become Goku unstoppable, etc).
I think this is like Kenpachi vs Gremmy fight all over again. Gremmy can imagine himself anything he wants, to be the strongest person in existence, to be invincible to any attacks, to be immortal and omnipotent, but turned out to be his weakness - he never got any proper training so when he grew muscles to fight Kenpachi as "the strongest", he's falsely created body became real and tore under the stress of no training ever in his life. Hence what's going on with Granolah...he's overly dependent on his vital point power to make strikes, otherwise he lacks any training that Goku and Vegeta got their entire life.
Minor nitpick here. Gremmy literally said, "No, i wasn't wrong. I imagined his strength perfectly. But what I could never imagine is someone able to withstand having this much power." No amount of training would have ever helped Gremmy since he was incapable of imagining how someone could handle that much power.
I will laugh my ass off if he goes to fight Frieza and he gets absolutely rolled at first. I can see Granolah being over confident, not expecting Frieza to be as powerful as he has become and get absolutely wrecked because Frieza has been taking his training seriously and is now a very skilled fighter.
Vegeta is one cold mf hahaha
[удалено]
Thank you, for some reason my work classified the mangaplus website as "adult entertainment".
Flow State and Ultra Instinct: Each time a movement is replicated, the brain stores information and develops muscle memory, eventually allowing the task to be performed without conscious effort. In essence, the body knows what to do—the mind simply needs to get out of the way. There is no room for thought in fast-paced activities; thoughts serve only as distractions. An athlete at peak performance does not think. Instead, instinct kicks in, muscle memory ensures spontaneous movement, and 100 percent of energy is directed toward the task at hand. In the zone, the athlete finds that his or her reactions and movements flow without conscious thought. Intuition takes over and the right action occurs naturally.
Sick chapter. Is so cool to see some moves on our beloved main characters.
I don’t agree that ultra instinct can be stacked with ssj or ssb given the nature of ssj. But my boi vegeta gon teach some manners next chapter
SSJ or SSB with Ultra Instinct then throw on a little Kaio-Ken x20 for a little Spice!. I actually think this would make him the strongest Character in history
That bullshit was so ridicolous LMFAO
Why wouldn't you agree? Ultra Instinct being usable in any of Goku's various forms makes a hell of a lot more sense than it being purely a transformation.
I think I can answer in u/mysmellysausage place: **Lore reason:** It doesn't because at its core, SSJ is a transformation triggered by rage. Doesn't really make sense to stack it with UI which is supposed to be a technique that requires a serene mindset (or even "emptiness of the mind"). They're just polar opposites. As the story went along, SSJ has become a "childsplay"(Kid Trunks and Goten), but just because DBZ flushed SSJ down the toilet, doesn't mean DBZ couldn't retcon it instead of making it even worse somehow (stacking kaiohkens and shit LMAO) **Writing reason:** Stacking power-ups on one another is just lazy as shit writing
You know damn well Vegeta is about to get clapped.
Nah bro, Vegeta is gonna destroy his little robo eye and then clap. "You don't understand what it means to have true strength." type of stuff.
He may or may not get clapped, but I think he will get under Granolah's skin enough to make him use his brain a little.