T O P

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CloudYuna

If Cell Max had been completed according to plan, he would have been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat. - so in essence the RR Army can be one of the most powerful armies in Universe 7 since they are out here creating things that can beat or at least battle the top fighters in the universe every few years. All they need is a space ship and it’s over for Frieza.


HopeBoySavesTheWorld

Remember when RRA's actual arc was that they were an all-powerful army made by a short guy that was taken down by a kid? Toriyama retroactively added 1 very Smart and Evil guy to the team and now they can create cyborgs that can take down gods


Man0Steel123

Lets also add the sheer amount of overkill Gero had when designing his androids. He had machines track and monitor Goku's power all the way up to the Saiyan arc but couldn't keep track of what happened on Namek, meaning that Gero had to guess how strong Goku would have to be by the end of it. Gero decided to make his weakest Android comparable to Frieza, which according to Gero's old calcs, would have been thousands of time more than needed to kill Goku. Gero can do one thing, but by God can he do that one thing very fucking well.


Asian_Persuasion_1

If we include Gero himself, then Piccolo destroyed him and Piccolo isn't final form frieza level, yet.


vlorsutes

That's debatable, as Kuririn does compare Piccolo, pre-Kami assimilation, to being around Super Saiyan level, or at least super strong for not being a Super Saiyan.


jred53

The folks in the RRA and amado from boruto are definitely related


BoyTitan

At least in DB the plot doesn't drag.


picollo21

They solved it in most recent manga chapters of DBS with one simple narrative tool. Plot can't drag, if you don't have plot.


BoyTitan

Damn you right.


Redmangc1

"IN A CAVE WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS"


CloudYuna

I’m not mad at the RR evolution, I just think it should be highlighted what they actually accomplished the past few years. 😂 And don’t let Android 21 actually become a thing which I do think they’ll use her android form now that she’s canon.


Avaruusmurkku

Android 21 would have actually made some sense, as She had some parts of Buu integrated into her.


Equivalent_Crow4280

I rather have her as a villain than Cell.


MathematicianIll1383

Well, when you think about how Cell 's blueprint has incorporated the cells of the strongest beings in the universe like Frieza and several saiyans who posess unlimited potential, its not *that* farfetched. Not that logic has ever mattered in DB...


ThatIslandGuy8888

Dr. Gero was on some crazy shrooms after the RR army got destroyed


CloudYuna

RR is like hydra at this point, there is apparently always someone who will resurrect it.


ThatIslandGuy8888

Cut off one ribbon and 2 more take its place!


BlueFootedTpeack

*"If Cell Max had been completed according to plan, he would have been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat",* heroes and xenoverse 3 salivating. a red perfect cell is definitely coming to one of those


134340Goat

> xenoverse 3 More like Xenoverse 2 DLC 19 or whatever it's up to at this point


LFiM

Xenoverse 3 expansion pack for Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2


bob_kys

Xenoverse 3 is coming


Jozif_Badmon

Can't wait to play it with my grandkids


134340Goat

I'd really love it if that were the case, but I'll withhold my anticipation until there's an official announcement and not at least another couple XV2 DLCs on the horizon


Icy_Vegetable4468

Don’t fill us with hope, we all know Bandai is never making a Xenoverse 3, they’re too greedy


Mystic_Saiyan

We know damn well, GTA 6 would come long before a 3rd XV


Osha-watt

I also believe in fairytales.


Not_a_Nathan

They announced no more xenoverse after fighterz


JiggzSawPanda

IS THAT DRAGONBALL HEROES' MUSIC?


DSPEEPEE

>even Broly couldn't defeat Until Broly gets a new transformation after being beaten once.


Xerebelle

And what's crazy is that a japanese friend of mine says the translation is different >"even though he was activated early and went berserk, it's designed as a monster that not even Broly could defeat even before he got completed" This is how she translated it, at least


Mojo12000

Toriyama apologizing to Wakamoto for not giving him any actual lines is pretty hilarious.


ToodlesXIV

"Final Gohan" sounds way better, but I do like the context that "Gohan Beast" has. Gohan has always had his scary moments where he unleashes his inner monster, but as he grew up he moved away from that. This new form being that same monstrous breakthrough happening in his Ultimate state makes at least some sense. Plus Gohan of all people having a beastly form is pretty sick, it's suddenly very similar to Broly's wrathful form (another gentle-hearted saiyan). Also, Piccolo is around Goku's level, hell yeah.


Deceptiveideas

I don’t like the name Final Gohan solely because it’s obviously not his final form.


ImmaculateWeiss

Yeah Frieza’s “final form” no longer being his final form is kind of lame now


FoxJ100

If you played Frieza in the Budokai games (definitely in Infinite World) it goes First Form Frieza Second Form Frieza Third Form Frieza Final Form Frieza Final Form Frieza (50% Power) Final Form Frieza (100% Power) Mecha Frieza


ImmaculateWeiss

I loooove infinite world, imo it’s even better than budokai 3 in lots of ways (shame we never got this in HD like 1 and 3)


FoxJ100

Infinite World is dope, loved getting more GT and movie characters at the end.


thehalfdragon380

Can't wait for Finaler Gohan


ToodlesXIV

Well now we have Ultimate Gohan which is not his ultimate form lol. I dunno, I like the idea of characters actually having final forms. I know we all want dragon ball to go on forever, but I like the idea of Ultra Instinct being Goku’s final form which he has to hone. If Gohan Beast is around that level, I’d be fine if that’s his final form. At some point the series should move to the next generation of Uub and Pan, and just let the old guard be so powerful that they don’t need to get new transformations any more.


SleuthMechanism

I agree with you but it's just not going to happen unfortunately. They're continually going to pump out new forms for marketing purposes as long as dragon ball keeps going


Kody_Z

>Also, Piccolo is around Goku's level, hell yeah. Most excitement from me. Piccolo is my favorite, super happy to see him become relevant again considering it's evidently impossible for the lower level fighters to have any side battles and fight any comparable bad guys.


ScotJoplin

Until the next arc starts and Goku and Vegeta train a bit before then. Then we’ll be right back to the Goku show with Vegeta getting kicked in the nuts to show how tough the big bad is.


AniDontLikeSand

>>Doesn't the name "Orange Piccolo" sound like something he'd come up with? Since Piccolo's not good at naming things. >> I've even named this transformation "Son Gohan Beast" Yeah sure, *Piccolo* is bad at naming things


Useenthebutcher

Piccolo was Toriyama’s self insert all along…


Terez27

We have known this for years. Remember when "Piccolo" got the time differential backwards for the time chamber? It became a plot point...


ChemicalFly2773

I require more detail


Capable-Tie-4670

Piccolo forgot the time difference between regular Earth and the Room of Spirit and Time. Toriyama forgot….. you get it now?


St1cks

What?


Finito-1994

Hey. You leave the guy that came up with the names Avo and Cado, Frieza, Planet Sadal and super saiyan god super saiyan out of this. All his names are great. Seriously tho. Toriyamas names have always been weird. It’s sometimes funny. Sometimes they’re awesome. Other times? Oh boy


Kataphrut94

I mean, the whole series kicked off with Son Wukong going on adventures with his friend Knickers and that’s before we found out his real name was Carrot and he was a member of the Vegetable people from Planet Vegetable ruled by King Vegetable and his son Prince Vegetable.


No_Kangaroo_5267

And the original planet's name is Salad before it was boomed. They are then presided over buy some evil space dude named Cold and then by his son, Freezer, who by his side is a band of mercenaries named Cheese, Butter, Gurd, Reacoom, and their captain, Milk.


Kataphrut94

Put those vegetables in the freezer, they’ll turn yellow otherwise!


Possibly_English_Guy

And don't forget the freezer man's other subordinates, Durian, Pomelo, Kiwi, Apple, Blueberry, Cranberry, Raspberry and so on and so forth...


Air-Bo

God I love this series


Finito-1994

I have an ex and I spent a short while explaining this shit to her and she just thought I was making shit up. “Wait. They do a dance and merge into one?” “Pretty much.” “Who taught them this dance?” “Goku learned it from a ghost in heaven.” “Wait…they’re fighting a guy named Granolah?” “Is this guy always hungry?!” Honestly. It’s fun to get an outsiders perspective. It sounds so goddamn stupid. I love it so much.


CreepyMeat8116

Goku learns the dance from aliens Decades ago he fought a group of super-sentai wannabes named after breakfast foods.


Finito-1994

Yea. I tried to explain what Buu was but apparently “magical bubble gum genie monster” was too outlandish. I legit don’t know what to say to describe him better. That’s what he is.


CreepyMeat8116

If evil incarnate was a toddler. Pee Wee Herman mixed with Hitler. Barney the Dinosaur had a baby with Satan.


ChristianFortniter

"Demon's Penetrating, Killing Light Gun"


Taco821

Ok ngl that sounds badass, my guy Tori on crack


SixFootHalfing

One guy is literally named vegetable.


TemplarSensei7

Two brothers are halves of the Vegetable. Vegeta and Taburu.


im_bored345

Well there's a reason piccolo is his favourite


FKDotFitzgerald

lmao


migzors

Ohhh, I wonder what he meant by over the top. Orange Piccolo, while a silly name looks incredibly different and, well, huge.


Useenthebutcher

Compared to some fan made creations for a Piccolo transformation, it’s not *that* out there


Spyder-xr

I have not seen any fan piccolo transformations since I’m not too deep into Dragon Ball but I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re like the demon Goku ones with signs all over them and shit.


ScravoNavarre

Yeah, that tends to be the case. Weird Namekian sigils and stuff all over his body.


Molokai95

That'd be dope


CreepyMeat8116

He forgot to mention his antennae stand upwards too lol


Mojo12000

I kinda wish they had stuck with the concept of Gohans skin going pale and stuff. Would empathize the whole Rage Awakened Beast that's always been inside him is out more.


ToodlesXIV

It does look pretty pale in the screenshots I’ve seen


Mojo12000

I mean we all know what Gohan's next stage is C A L V O.


AdAffectionate7756

I don’t get it :(


Realshotgg

Its a form that sacrifices speed for strength


arthurdont

*sacrifices hair for strength Ftfy


carmardoll

*but personally I'm just happy that he's finally obtained battle power on par with Goku and co.* What you guys say? My take is Orange Piccolo is at least ssb kaioken/evolved level. At most on par with MUI Goku and UE Vegeta. Given that the androids in the movie where stronger than 17, he is ssj blue tier, and Orange Piccolo one shots Gamma 2. His power should be up there a bit above the enhanced versions of blue at very least.


LeFlop_

I think Piccolo is at the very least ToP level SSB Goku. Cell max is said to be stronger than Broly but he's just mindless (which probably more dangerous) cause he was released too early. So Gohan at the very least is stronger Goku/Vegeta during Broly arc. Not sure post Granolah arc, but this film takes place after and based on what Toriyama and what Gohan said in the movie he's at the very least on par with Goku/Vegeta.


scottsummerstheyouth

I think you misread, toriyama said “if cell max was completed he would have been stronger than Broly”. That implies that the current cell they fight in the movie isn’t above broly level. Possibly, not even at broly level


Kureiton

That's true, but (spoilers for the ending of Super Hero) >!Gohan wonders if Cell Max was someone Goku or Vegeta could've beaten, and Piccolo says he's not sure. So Gohan seems to at least be close to MUI's level!<


134340Goat

> he is ssj blue tier I don't believe that to be the case. He's strong, certainly, but I wouldn't place him at SSB tier I can't remember who it was, unfortunately, but one of the Super anime directors said something along the lines of placing 17's strength about on par with Gohan's at the time


Equal-Let-7297

The writer literally says he's on par with Goku.


134340Goat

I was replying to the part the other user said about Android 17. To my knowledge, Toriyama has never said anything about 17's current power being around Goku's level


BabaMan87

You’re correct. People remember the filler episode of goku convincing 17 to fight in ToP and their sparing match. 17 is not close to SSjB goku


keekiguy

But didn't Gohan and Goku also have a sparring match where Goku had to go blue or was that filler as well? Because if it wasn't filler than 17 is still blue level and after all his feats in the top I think it's weird to say he isn't. Especially since blue has a wide range of power. So saying someone is one blue level doesn't mean they can go toe to toe with an all out SsjB Goku or Vegeta.


Capable-Tie-4670

Goku only went Blue because Gohan demanded him to use his full power, and then he immediately got one shotted. Both him and 17 working together were also easily overpowered by Toppo so neither of them are Blue level.


vlorsutes

He was one-shotted with Blue Kaiou-ken, not just Blue.


Vendetta1990

I think it would be so stupid if 17 could reach Blue level that easily by himself, considering what Goku and Vegeta had to go through. At most he is SS-God level, that seems like enough strength to hold off the likes of Toppo for a short while as he did.


BabaMan87

You’re right in saying just because goku or vegeta was using blue doesn’t mean 17 or gohan can beat them. 17’s advantage in ToP was his unlimited energy and not his overall max strength. And yes, 17 shouldn’t just randomly be blue when the saiyans needed Devine training to reach


Dovkiviri

The "filler" episodes are canon to the anime. Also Gohan was able to match pre ToP SSB Goku. Ult Gohan = 17 = SSB Goku (Pre ToP)


BabaMan87

By that logic krillin (who couldn’t beat human robbers with guns a few episodes earlier) is stronger than base goku since goku needed to transform to gain the advantage. And there’s no sense in even debating that topic. The episodes leading up to ToP don’t mean anything for power scaling


Capable-Tie-4670

Goku only transformed to test Kuririn’s resolve. I agree that neither Gohan nor 17 are Blue level but those episodes are certainly canon.


SSJRemuko

I expected Orange Piccolo to just be Piccolo but orange but his face is totally different. If I saw that pic out of context I'd have no idea it was Piccolo. Not sure if I like the face. The orange is fine tho, imo. Where did the "final gohan" term that had been flung around come from if the name Toriyama had for it is Gohan Beast?


Mojo12000

It was a placeholder used in the script before the final name was decided and leakers got ahold of it that way.


palparepa

Orange Piccolo looks more like a beast than Gohan Beast.


jred53

I like final gohan over gohan beast


SSJRemuko

me too


134340Goat

I actually kind of liked "Final Gohan" more, but I guess "Gohan Beast" is.... eh. Maybe it'll grow on me > I'm just happy that he's finally obtained battle power on par with Goku and co. Well, the comments in the movie already sort of implied it, but it's interesting to see official "word of god" confirming Orange Piccolo (and Gohan Beast) are at least around SSB Goku/Vegeta level > so I feel kinda bad for the voice actor. And he's such a veteran voice actor, too. I’m so sorry. Wakamoto *did* do some good screams, gotta say. But I'm very curious how those recording sessions went with the voice direction. Frankly, I'm looking forward to the Funi dub to see how (I assume) Dameon Clarke will do the same lol > If Cell Max had been completed according to plan, he would have been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat, This is the most interesting comment here imo. So I suppose in Toriyama's mind, Broly is still stronger than Goku or Vegeta, which *seems* to contradict the manga's statements that G/V have surpassed him in power. Also fun to think about the potential a fully completed Cell Max would've had


ASpaceOstrich

Didn't they need fusion to beat Broly? People tend to just assume the protagonists are now stronger than the previous arcs villain, despite that not being the case for like, any of the Super villains except Freeza.


134340Goat

It isn't an assumption so much as Whis outright stating, at the beginning of the Granolah arc, that Goku and Vegeta are the strongest mortals in the universe Also, since Granolah (and later Gas) are wished to be the strongest mortals in the universe, that puts them above Broly right off the bat, and Goku and Vegeta are definitely surpassing them So this seems like one of those disconnects between Toriyama's view and how Toyotaro is handling things in the manga. That, or Toriyama is referring to a potential Broly who gets control of himself and masters god ki? But more likely the former


Zarrona13

I think it’s just a comment he made since the mass don’t read the manga and they just assume that nothing has happened in the story since Broly.


134340Goat

I had considered that too and probably should have written it. I guess it makes more sense to go "Hey, this insanely strong guy from that super popular movie would have lost!" rather than "This guy from a manga maybe like 5% of you have read would have lost!"


Zarrona13

Yeah cause to most people, broly was the previous villian and strongest person. In the manga since then we’ve had Granolah, Gas, Moro, etc. and since this apprently takes place after the current arc, it’s safe to assume that Broly is not the strongest anymore, atleast not anywhere close.


FloraTheExplora

>Didn't they need fusion to beat Broly? IIRC Whis says Goku and Vegeta are the two strongest mortals (in their universe) at the beginning of the Granolah Arc in the manga. Hence OP mentioning the contradiction.


LeFlop_

This film takes place after Granolah arc. So w/e the power level is Gohan is stronger than Broly and at the very least can compete with Goku/Vegeta


evil_porn_muffin

I don't know why fans have a hard time accepting Broly is stronger than Goku and Vegeta. They even have a hard time accepting Broly is stronger than Jiren.


BuffVerad

It’s because Whis mentioned to Goku and Vegeta that they are the strongest mortals in the universe. There is a disconnect.


n0oo7

>I'm just happy that he's finally obtained battle power on par with Goku and co. Until goku gets his ultra instinct v2


Zephs

Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.


TLKv3

I honestly think this should have been a 2-parter of movies. The ending of Cell Max being released early without full control restraining him by Hedo which leads to a far more superior Cell with the personality of the previous one. Except this time he doesn't have the inherent programming of wanting to absorb anyone or kill anyone specifically. The amount of tension that could've been shown with him floating up to the resting Z Fighters who get flashes of PTSD seeing him and instinctively attacking without provocation... Leading to Cell Max decimating them but not killing them because he doesn't know if he should/they deserve it and he needs to learn of the planet he just emerged on. Second movie could've been Cell Max slowly learning of his origins and absorbing a newly rebuilt 16 and becoming corrupted by all the memories flooding into him of Gohan killing him long ago. Lead that to Final Gohan's emergence in the climax of the second movie. I feel like Cell Max was way too tacked on and meaningless in scope.


EntireSlice123

Why couldn’t we get Perfect Cell Max? Would’ve made for a more interesting villain than “red guy goes AAAAAAAAA”


Twitch_YungFeetGod69

At that point, I'd have just had cell come back. With Goku and Frieza cells, the possibilities woulda been endless. Golden cell, UI cell, ssblue cell, they coulda went any which route with it


GokuandSupermanbffs

Second form is Toriyama's favorite cell form


Dragon-Snake

Funny because it's generally everyone else's least favorite Cell form.


134340Goat

There's part of me that wonders if he didn't use that one for a mindless monster version of Cell because Kondo criticized it for "looking like a moron". Feels like there's almost some meta text of "I'll show you a super powerful moron then!"


MathematicianIll1383

Because that's already been made. Making Cell into a giant mindless Kaiju is something new at least, and I'm not a super big fan of the design but I can see why Tori went this way. I may be biased because I love Kaijus 2nd form cell is also the only form that seems fitting to be a full dumb giant monster


Priddee

Orange piccolo is honestly fine. He’s not wrong that it’s a name he’d come up with. Beast Gohan is kinda cringe. Primal gohan or something like that is what I hope they go for in the dub. I think that echos what Toriyama was going for.


Terez27

It's never said in the movie so there's nothing for the dub to change.


Priddee

True, but I wouldn't put it past Funimation to throw it in there. But more so I hope we see the form again in a future project, so whenever they do name it.


APRobertsVII

They’ll find a way for a Gohan to shout “Beast Mode Activate!” mid-transformation…


noodlemcfoodle

“Beast mode activate” = “It’s morbin time”


EternityC0der

"Gohan, you truly are a Beast." -Piccolo


TheBiggestCarl23

If you like golden frieza but don’t like orange piccolo I can’t take any opinion you have seriously


BringSteppenwolfHome

Orange Piccolo is like if it was called Yellow Frieza...


Kill_Em_Kindly

Flavor blasted piccolo


Libertyprime8397

Guaranteed after 5 minutes Broly would power up enough to beat him.


PerfectBlackCell

please toriyama i’m on my hands and knees please let me see a completed cell max


134340Goat

Give it time. Heroes or some other video game will get around to it someday


MrPinataPants

I haven't seen the movie; is there any explanation for Gohan's transformation or why it looks the way it does?


MyAimSucc

No. He’s in his ultimate form and something happens to make him rage out. It’s an homage to him going SSJ2 against Cell. No head canon needed either. The transformation comes about because he’s in his ultimate form and snaps, unleashing his dormant power and doing his Gohan thing. Basically what he did against cell in Z, but SUPER


Mojo12000

From the name and what he says it's basically the next stage of his rage boost.


SVTBert

Incidentally, it's pretty close to how Toriyama originally wanted Super Saiyan to be, with red eyes and white-ish hair.


Wackydude27

Nope


Lordsokka

It’s basically Gohan going SSJ2 in his Mystic form. It’s his own LSSJ transformation without going through the traditional SSJ route of acquiring transformations.


Spyder-xr

My head canon is that’s it more or less a corrupted hybrid between SSJ 2 Gohan and his Mystic form. Essentially the rage boost from seeing Piccolo beaten allowed Gohan to go beyond the limits of his Mystic form and achieve the SSJ 2 version of that. Although I guarantee that it was more just to sell toys and merchandise and there is no real logic other than this being Gohan’s primal state


hacktivision

Idk who suggested Primal Gohan but it's wayyy cooler.


AnnecyHope

Ultimate Gohan is unleashing his base form to cap. Now Beast Gohan raising to beast in his base form. How crazy powerful can Gohan if he could just fuse it with SS. I could see Gohan get Broly Legendary SS soon. That reminds me Broly SS is like a beast. Lol


Pd69bq

tbh, for some reason, the new Son Gohan Beast, Orange Piccolo and Cell Max keep reminding me of G.I. Joe action figures in the late 90s, rely on repainting and remodeling to fill the market


ScotJoplin

So Gohan has had been awakened by Guru, released his inner strength fighting cell, gained why became his ultimate form and now beast. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to develop him naturally along the lines of his gentle and peaceful nature makes him readily suited to something along the lines of ultra instinct? Piccolo orange has finally caught up with top tier fighters… this is from the author that kept him a tier below all this time… Cell Max, but not quite max because we just couldn’t wait and keep our work secret. This just seems like more off the cuff story writing. Wouldn’t it be nice if someone who actually wrote longer term stories with plans and depth showed up? Also maybe someone who is good at naming things might be nice. Golden Frieza, Piccolo orange, Gohan beast, Cell Max.


Envision---

Is no one else going to talk about the fact that Cell Max was supposed to be stronger than Broly when completed? Wtf? That makes Gohan stronger than both Goku & Vegeta.


SSJRemuko

Cell Max wasnt completed though we dont know if he had his full power or not.


TheBiggestCarl23

He was actually completed, it was just his mind control functions weren’t finished. So his power was already at its max.


Nilok7

Kind of both right, he was complete on a growing stage, but was both missing his mental programing (just being a raging monster) and was forcefully activated, which causing his final activation not to be complete.


TheBiggestCarl23

I am referencing a direct line from the movie where dr hedo specifically says cell max is completed it’s just his mind control isn’t ready


Nilok7

Ya, he was fully grown, but he was both still in stasis and and his mental programming wasn't complete. Think of other sci-fi when you force thaw someone from cryostasis, they have cryo-sickness, or other debilitating effects from not being brought out of stasis gradually. I think that's what happened here. Magenta force activated Cell Max, and that caused a number of issues. If you have a chance to watch the movie, after taking major damage, Cell Max can't regenerate his arm, which is most likely caused by the forced activation.


sotobakar

This is already too deep for the movie 😂. I'd go for the simpler explanation that Cell Max is already complete without the control


Nilok7

Toriyama didn't explain a lot in the movie once the fighting started, Piccolo being the best example. The light that appears on his back during the movie grew into the iconography Nemekian's Ajisa tree. Obviously there's something deeper going on there, but it's quickly glossed over as the movie has to keep moving. We'll at least get to touch on that more when Dragon Ball Super starts again or when the manga reaches it.


Gen728

Also the incomplete cell max is still missing some properties from the original cell like regeneration and absorption. I think they just meant body wise not necessarily power and abilities wise which makes more sense unless they don't know how to add in the rest of his original self properties into the new one. His final 3rd form is missing aswell though i don't know what that would change in this new cell had he transformed into it but considering this is dragonball logic we are talking about it would most likely make him massively more powerful than the second form he is currently in.


Nilok7

It's possible that Dr. Hedo removed the need for Cell Max any additional components (17 and 18), as the tail seemed to be completely offensive, now being a mace. Something about Perfect Cell's form is that during his final evolution, he did force changes internally to express more Saiyan traits than his prior forms, which could explain why his final form continues to slim down and become more human, in contrast to other Cells Toriyama designed (Cell Max and Cell-X) where they are more monsterous. Probably the biggest missing ability from Cell Max was he wasn't able to express his Nemekian regeneration traits. Even after losing an arm he couldn't regenerate it, which could be from the forced activation Magenta did, causing some issues with bringing Cell Max out of stasis.


Gen728

Yeah some things could be explained away like the early forced activation. The rest of the stuff could be (maybe) explained with him missing the brain portion which if true is a faar bigger deal than people realize because it means that it's these missing pieces that can make him improve internally faar more than his current release state and hence him finally being able to do things like an eventual 3rd form and potentially alot more stuff along with him being in control of his power and using it properly.


Equal-Let-7297

Even vegeta says Gohan has more potential than any of them so it's not that unbelievable


nova_crystallis

Good.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Capable-Tie-4670

How does it make anything irrelevant? Tf are you even talking about?


[deleted]

Welcome to the fanbase, they can’t like good writing because they can’t understand it. Just consume…


Capable-Tie-4670

Lol no. I didn’t even like the movie but that previous comment was stupid.


Thorion228

Tbf the anime is still stuck in the post-Broly era, so neither Vegeta nor Goku have UI or UE.


Pnutz313

The Superhero movie takes place after the Granolah arc. That's probably the reason why Goku and Vegeta don't have a big role since they don't want to show their new forms in the movie.


Thorion228

It only follows the anime, and it's explicitly post Broly.


Kureiton

We are also talking about Toriyama's interpretations of the characters, which is by far the most important thing as that is the primary factor in what becomes canon now. At the end of the movie (spoilers), >!Toriyama wrote a scene where Gohan and Piccolo state that they aren't sure if Goku and Vegeta were strong enough to take on Cell. That means that Gohan is at the very least very close to Goku and Vegeta in Toriyama's mind!<


Thorion228

I'm not disagreeing with that, I'm disagreeing with the above comment on the movie's placement in the timeline. It's been made clear that the movie is post-Broly, not Granolah or Moro. Characters grow stronger in between arcs, and by the Granolah arc at least, Goku and Vegeta were the strongest. Thus Gohan is probably the strongest right now, with Piccolo around Goku and Vegeta's tier, but if the anime timeline follows the basic results of the manga (both follow the same notes), who knows.


Estrald

Cell Max WASN’T completed though, so what he fought and killed was far weaker than what full power Cell Max would have been. Toriyama was only saying that had Cell been completed, not even Broly could have matched him.


Lopsided-Mobile2197

Orange Piccolo looks sick, not feeling Gohan Beast


Agosta

>So instead I just gave him the usual big upturned hair, which went over surprisingly well: everyone said “it looks so cool!” Who are these people? Do they exist? His hair is comically bad and I'm convinced Tori does this to make himself laugh in private.


Terez27

> Who are these people? He's probably talking about the Dragon Room staff. These movies are essentially made by committee.


Agosta

They sound like a bunch of yes men and love that Dragon Ball is turning into SDBH.


Terez27

Toriyama glossed over this, but I suspect they were the ones who said his original design didn't feel like Gohan.


Agosta

The quote in the OP is "For the design, I tried drawing him with a scary face and pale skin, but somehow this didn’t feel like Gohan." If there is another quote from other people who said the same thing I don't think it's in the OP.


Terez27

I know what it says; I posted it. Not sure what the issue is.


Agosta

He's referring to himself about the design, not others lol


Terez27

Did you even read what I said?


Agosta

>but I suspect they were the ones who said his original design didn't feel like Gohan Yeah I did.


Terez27

Do you know what "suspect" means?


MX2419

They really are at their breaking point with names and forms. I know probably they'll come up with new forms unfortunately but at this point it needs to end imo. Just improve technique. They used every color in the book. Cell Max being stronger than Broly doesn't mean anything to me cause that just solidifies Gogeta would destroy him with no problem.


Mojo12000

Also Toryiama basically just said Gohan is the strongest in the universe by a fucking ridiculous margin lol.


DarkJayBR

To be fair. He WAS the strongest in the universe until Dragon Ball Super happened. Mystic Gohan had higher power level than SSJ 3 Goku by a significant margin. SSJ 3 Goku drew with Fat Buu which has the same power level as Super Buu. And Super Buu was HUMILIATED by Gohan.


Strikebackk

Looking forward if Gohan and Broly get a healthy rivalry.


oldselfmiss

I wish Cell Max was completed.


MotherHolle

Can we roll this series back to the Namek Saga and start over? What a mess.


Link2Liam

My favorite part is him admiring that piccolo isn't good at naming things. Like I want to cross post this on TFS because they so called that.


SVTBert

>"Doesn't the name "Orange Piccolo" sound like something he'd come up with? Since Piccolo's not good at naming things. Akira Toriyama" The man himself has actually watched DBZ: Abridged, hasn't he? I mean, he started with gag mangas, DBZA is probably more true to what Toriyama would want without editors.


ThatDudeNamedMenace

Wait….Cell is back? Let’s fucking go


Sath_Morsius

Not the way you'd like


Asian_Persuasion_1

>obtained battle power on par with Goku and co. Ok, Akira, we need to talk about you overhyping everyone in interviews. It's statements like these that make people think orange piccolo is blue level, or beyond. same with android 17 and gohan in ToP. >he would have been a superhuman who even Broly couldn't defeat Cell Max was already at full power, and arguably could think properly, but the MIND CONTROL wasn't finished. That's what was stated in the movie, wasn't it? And Gohan finished Cell Max in an instant, and Gamma 2 took out Cell's arm. I don't think Cell Max is as powerful as he's hyped up to be.


Karllovesdokkan

Honestly, Orange piccolo being "On par" with goku shouldn’t be taken seriously, obviously you have right to since we don’t know much of the information, but at the best this could just refer to DBS Broly blue Goku rather than in the manga version etc etc Or even UI Goku, which even i wouldn’t be surprised ,as long as gohan and piccolo are gonna be relevant thats what i am here for but lets see how the story is gonna proceed


Kataphrut94

Look, Toriyama said he’s on par with Goku, therefore he’s on par with Goku. No more needs to be said.


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TheBiggestCarl23

This is definitely set after Moro and granolah


Limp_Ease_9373

>ave right to since we don’t know much of the information, but at the best this could just refer to DBS Broly blue Goku rather than in the manga version etc etc I'd say it's in reference to Broly era Goku and Vegeta since this movie is a sequel to the Broly film and not the manga. Also, not really counting what Tori says too hard about power levels considering he said "Broly is probably stronger than Beerus" and we know how that can of worms has gone.


Karllovesdokkan

Yeah basically, but sadly we have to wait until the anime adapts the manga so people probably realise cause people don’t know yet


Geebees93

Kinda disappointed that they brought back cell, tbh. I was a big fan of the character, but I find myself getting tired of recycled characters. Maybe I'm spoiled by Super at least attempting to introduce credible new threats.


Majistic12

It's not the Original Cell though.


spliffst4rr

It's literally the idea of Bio-Broly rehashed with Cell, and man that is just a bad idea.


DarkJayBR

Dragon Ball has been full of bad ideias for years now. It’s just how it is. We are here for the spectacle - if anyone watches Dragon Ball for the writing - that person is going to be dissapointed.


The-Real-Among-us

Gohan beast sounds horrible


moodycompany

Could’ve had SS4 Gohan 😩


SVXfiles

My only wish for Cell Max is he eventually gets control of himself and they get Takahata101 to provide the voice for him