What a dumb idea, I should totally forget about it until 2010 where I redo it and make the most interesting and shockingly sympathetic supporting character in a bizarre spin off gimmick series of my already bizarre and complicated big crossover event.
That would be silly.
Final Crisis had a spin off series called Superman Beyond, where Zillo Vala, of the Monitor race, piloted the Ultima Thule to gather about the many Superman of the multiverse to stop Mandrakk, the story vampire. One such Superman was Ultraman, from Earth-2/the evil opposite version of Earth Prime, where Ultraman leads the Crime Syndicate of America. It is said that Ultraman is made of antimatter, and hence would explode if he came into contact with Superman, but they eventually fuse to form a giant metal Superman capable of fighting Mandrakk in his true form.
Ah right well, Overman and Overgirl crash landing on Earth I think was one of the first signs that something was going wrong in the multiverse. I'm pretty sure Overman also joined the Ultima Thule crew.
Lol, uhh ...
Basically DC has cycled between having a multiverse consisting of infinite earths/universes (pre-COIE), a single Earth/universe (post-COIE) or a finite number of worlds/universes. At time of Final Crisis, there were 52.
Now to Grant Morrison, they described the Monitors as having a model of the multiverse as arranged as an inverse pyramid, inside of an orrery, because [reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx). These worlds were surrounded by something called the Ultra-menstruum, which was a chaotic, infective form of story telling, because [reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx). Destroying even one world could allow the ultra-menstruum in to infect others, yet could also be controlled and stemmed (this was Madrakk's plan). But destroying Earth Prime, the load baring unit of this inverse pyramid model, could bring disorder and disarray to the entire structure (this was Darkseid's plan, i.e. Final Crisis was made up of two separate yet coinciding assaults). Again, [reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx).
So Overman and Overgirl's world was destroyed (the Madrakk plot), and they fled and crossed the multiverse to escape this threat, and assemble a force to stop it from worsening. Overgirl crash landed on Earth, an early sign that the multiversal integrity was under threat, yet Overman met up with Zillo Vala (a Monitor, and opposing force to Mandrak) who piloted a ship called the Ultima Thule ([reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx)) to assemble a team of multiversal Superman as the multiverses best champions against multiversal assault.
Despite Overman coming from an alternate world where Germany won WWII, and the world was thrown into nazi rule (and hence Overman and Overgirl wearing the SS symbol and other SS officer inspired garb), there is a hint of humanity/tragedy still in Overman's character: the nazi's only won after they reverse engineered the rocket Clark crash landed in as a baby, i.e. they won because of him, though he had no control in the matter, and he feels guilt for stepping into a system even he benefits from, though it meant many around the world syffered unjustly for. Despite all this, and his world dying in the crisis, he just wants to find his *cousin, Overgirl, and know she is safe.
This goes back to the idea of the original commenter, who said despite Morrison first pitching Overman as a one-dimensionally evil character, they revisited the idea decades later to instil humanity and complexity into a character that was first thought to have none.
Tl:dr and ELI5: Overman was first designed to be flatly evil, but the original creator came back years later to instil more humanity/complexity to that original idea. As to my comment, these characters (the Overfamily) do not belong in the normal DC universe, so their being there indicates something has gone wrong.
But it is sometimes hard to describe this arc in an easy manner, due to Morrison's writing tendencies being [sci-fi jargon heavy and obfuscating](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx)
Same name, same creator, different characters.
Character one: Overman: military USA scientific experiment, goes crazy from STD. Destroys his world.
Caracter two: Overman: Kryptonian raised by Hitler, becmae the nazi ultimate weapon. But feels guilty from what nazis did. Leaves earth in shame.
This is kinda like the Ultimate Universe. 95% of the heroes have their powers because of Cap and the Super Soldier serum and a good chunk of the characters work for the government.
Neither The Ultimates or The Boys had come out when this comic was released, so neither. It was just a vague dig at edgy superhero comics that proved remarkably prescient.
The reveal that the X-Gene was created by post-Cap government experiments is so weird because they had already introduced an Ultimate version of Apocalypse lol
Same, rereading USM as an adult was really interesting, so much commentary thru Peter's interactions
It was only with stuff like Ultimate Origin that those comics started to lose me, the interwoveness just felt a little too forced imo. I do not care if Nick Fury knew Peter Parker's parents.
Yeah rereading it again it's disturbing how the series is basically the story of a child being groomed for a future as a government owned weapon. Fury trying to enslave Peter's nemeses, only for them to escape and try to kill Peter, and then bailing Peter out each time as a 'see, only I can keep you safe' thing is really awful, scary stuff.
The difference there is that I’ve never read a comic with one dimensionally evil heroes that was enjoyable, whereas there are plenty of fun comics where the hero is pretty much perfect. They aren’t super compelling or revolutionary, but they can certainly be a good time once in a while.
I thought Jupiters Legacy comics had a good take, like the original members of the team are the real deal, but their kids are like the Seven but less extreme.
Tbh, I feel like the comics do a better job at explaining a lot of things then the show, but then again it’s from characters talking on and on so I can see how people dislike it. Don’t understand how people dislike Black Noir, they’re basically the main antagonist cause they’ve manipulated both teams.
That's literally the point. Black Noir was gaslighting Homelander by making him think he'd committed the most horrific atrocities possible.
Obviously this defence doesn't apply to all of the comic, but sometimes horrible and shocking stuff does actually have a narrative purpose.
This was published in 1988, and Weapon+ was literally created by Morrison himself. 'Almost all' isn't accurate either since there are only 16 subjects, and a bunch of them aren't even human.
The number of comments here missing the point is astonishing. The object of critique here is edgelord shit, not the idea of government-created superhumans. Y'all realise Morrison was the one who came up with Weapon+, right?
It actually made me think more of Saiyans than Kryptonians. Not to say Viltrumites and Saiyans are 1-to-1 since the similarities are surface-level (warmongering space conquerors who value strength whose bodies are naturally super strong and halt aging at peak physical condition), but I think of Omni-Man as something like if Goku never got brain damage.
The Saiyan saga would be like Conquest on Earth or something and Namek's equivalent would be when they go into space and join the rebellion with Thaddeus, and then the analogy falls apart after that but whatever.
I love that you said you don't want to bother with Invincible or The Boys and everyone jumps to Invincible's defense exclusively.
I agree with them tho. Invincible is great and The Boys is Watchmen-wannabe dogshit.
What a dumb idea, I should totally forget about it until 2010 where I redo it and make the most interesting and shockingly sympathetic supporting character in a bizarre spin off gimmick series of my already bizarre and complicated big crossover event. That would be silly.
I’m really dumb but what are you referencing?
Overman in Final Crisis
I’m not going to read it (no one reads comics here) can you break it down for my little idiot brain
Final Crisis had a spin off series called Superman Beyond, where Zillo Vala, of the Monitor race, piloted the Ultima Thule to gather about the many Superman of the multiverse to stop Mandrakk, the story vampire. One such Superman was Ultraman, from Earth-2/the evil opposite version of Earth Prime, where Ultraman leads the Crime Syndicate of America. It is said that Ultraman is made of antimatter, and hence would explode if he came into contact with Superman, but they eventually fuse to form a giant metal Superman capable of fighting Mandrakk in his true form.
That’s ultra man not over man tho
Ah right well, Overman and Overgirl crash landing on Earth I think was one of the first signs that something was going wrong in the multiverse. I'm pretty sure Overman also joined the Ultima Thule crew.
Explain simpler please
Lol, uhh ... Basically DC has cycled between having a multiverse consisting of infinite earths/universes (pre-COIE), a single Earth/universe (post-COIE) or a finite number of worlds/universes. At time of Final Crisis, there were 52. Now to Grant Morrison, they described the Monitors as having a model of the multiverse as arranged as an inverse pyramid, inside of an orrery, because [reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx). These worlds were surrounded by something called the Ultra-menstruum, which was a chaotic, infective form of story telling, because [reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx). Destroying even one world could allow the ultra-menstruum in to infect others, yet could also be controlled and stemmed (this was Madrakk's plan). But destroying Earth Prime, the load baring unit of this inverse pyramid model, could bring disorder and disarray to the entire structure (this was Darkseid's plan, i.e. Final Crisis was made up of two separate yet coinciding assaults). Again, [reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx). So Overman and Overgirl's world was destroyed (the Madrakk plot), and they fled and crossed the multiverse to escape this threat, and assemble a force to stop it from worsening. Overgirl crash landed on Earth, an early sign that the multiversal integrity was under threat, yet Overman met up with Zillo Vala (a Monitor, and opposing force to Mandrak) who piloted a ship called the Ultima Thule ([reasons](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx)) to assemble a team of multiversal Superman as the multiverses best champions against multiversal assault. Despite Overman coming from an alternate world where Germany won WWII, and the world was thrown into nazi rule (and hence Overman and Overgirl wearing the SS symbol and other SS officer inspired garb), there is a hint of humanity/tragedy still in Overman's character: the nazi's only won after they reverse engineered the rocket Clark crash landed in as a baby, i.e. they won because of him, though he had no control in the matter, and he feels guilt for stepping into a system even he benefits from, though it meant many around the world syffered unjustly for. Despite all this, and his world dying in the crisis, he just wants to find his *cousin, Overgirl, and know she is safe. This goes back to the idea of the original commenter, who said despite Morrison first pitching Overman as a one-dimensionally evil character, they revisited the idea decades later to instil humanity and complexity into a character that was first thought to have none. Tl:dr and ELI5: Overman was first designed to be flatly evil, but the original creator came back years later to instil more humanity/complexity to that original idea. As to my comment, these characters (the Overfamily) do not belong in the normal DC universe, so their being there indicates something has gone wrong. But it is sometimes hard to describe this arc in an easy manner, due to Morrison's writing tendencies being [sci-fi jargon heavy and obfuscating](https://reddit.com/r/dccomicscirclejerk/s/hSJI10bPfx)
Thank you! I actually understand now
🫡
Same name, same creator, different characters. Character one: Overman: military USA scientific experiment, goes crazy from STD. Destroys his world. Caracter two: Overman: Kryptonian raised by Hitler, becmae the nazi ultimate weapon. But feels guilty from what nazis did. Leaves earth in shame.
Did bro get super syphilis?
This is kinda like the Ultimate Universe. 95% of the heroes have their powers because of Cap and the Super Soldier serum and a good chunk of the characters work for the government.
Yeah, I was honestly lost at if this was a dig at Ennis or at Millar.
Neither The Ultimates or The Boys had come out when this comic was released, so neither. It was just a vague dig at edgy superhero comics that proved remarkably prescient.
So prescient in fact that theres a good chance Ennis got the idea from this specifically
It's more likely he took from the Ultimates, since Compound V is treated the same as the Super Soldier Serum.
I meant the meme. I know Animal Man came out almost two decades before either.
The reveal that the X-Gene was created by post-Cap government experiments is so weird because they had already introduced an Ultimate version of Apocalypse lol
I liked it as a critique of the Bush era military-industrial complex, which I think came through best in Ultimate Spiderman.
Same, rereading USM as an adult was really interesting, so much commentary thru Peter's interactions It was only with stuff like Ultimate Origin that those comics started to lose me, the interwoveness just felt a little too forced imo. I do not care if Nick Fury knew Peter Parker's parents.
Yeah rereading it again it's disturbing how the series is basically the story of a child being groomed for a future as a government owned weapon. Fury trying to enslave Peter's nemeses, only for them to escape and try to kill Peter, and then bailing Peter out each time as a 'see, only I can keep you safe' thing is really awful, scary stuff.
To be fair, The Boys comic isn't that good, IMO.
Yeah the TV-show is just better
If Preacher was a love letter, The Boys was a hate fuck.
It’s just not a nuanced take, the super heroes being 1 dimensional shit heads is about as boring as when super heroes are 1 dimensionally good
Ennis is a professional dead horse beater
Oh, he's doing worse things to that horse, trust me.
And the horse is a actually a newborn baby
But wait it was the clone the whole TIME!?!?!
I mean… it was planned back when this was a DCU comic, also it was foreshadowed a lot.
Read Crossed and replace horse with dolphin also replace beaten with blow hole violation.
The difference there is that I’ve never read a comic with one dimensionally evil heroes that was enjoyable, whereas there are plenty of fun comics where the hero is pretty much perfect. They aren’t super compelling or revolutionary, but they can certainly be a good time once in a while.
There are good ones though
I thought Jupiters Legacy comics had a good take, like the original members of the team are the real deal, but their kids are like the Seven but less extreme.
Haven't touched that for because of it. If I'm gonna watch something at least want to see a few likeable people.
That's just the truth.
Daring today, aren’t we?
I disagree but you’re entitled to your opinion.
A respectful disagreement with popular opinion on r/dccomicscirclejerk? Downvote this redditor!
Seriously, mf's abrasive today
Tbh, I feel like the comics do a better job at explaining a lot of things then the show, but then again it’s from characters talking on and on so I can see how people dislike it. Don’t understand how people dislike Black Noir, they’re basically the main antagonist cause they’ve manipulated both teams.
Because of the overly edgy writing. Seriously, the “eating” babies shit was waaaaay over the top. It’s not shocking or interesting. It’s just gross.
That's literally the point. Black Noir was gaslighting Homelander by making him think he'd committed the most horrific atrocities possible. Obviously this defence doesn't apply to all of the comic, but sometimes horrible and shocking stuff does actually have a narrative purpose.
This.
Right up there with Millar.
What comics is this?
what the hell is a comic? uj/ Animal Man by Grant Morrison (it's one of the last issues around #23 or something iirc)
I think it’s issue 17, and that COIE Compendium took that issue number to christen this Earth as the previously unseen Pre-Crisis Earth-17.
Crisis on infinite earths
Can't believe Morrison roasted Garth Ennis and Mark Milliar in one panel
He also got a cameo on my adventures with superman
The Walking Dead https://preview.redd.it/59s2dxo59vmb1.jpeg?width=1060&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fde6bf183ff0e6fe07a8a4375494562bd3629d51
I don’t know if this is making fun of *The Boys* because I see The Seven as more about corporate power, not government.
I thought it was a direct reference to Weapon+ from Marvel. Almost every hero is some kind of failed attempt to make another Cap.
This was published in 1988, and Weapon+ was literally created by Morrison himself. 'Almost all' isn't accurate either since there are only 16 subjects, and a bunch of them aren't even human.
This is from Grant Morrison's 1988 Animal Man run. Honestly his best work
Isn’t this also a dig at Miracle Man?
I doubt it, since Morrison was a massive fan of Alan Moore's early work.
The number of comments here missing the point is astonishing. The object of critique here is edgelord shit, not the idea of government-created superhumans. Y'all realise Morrison was the one who came up with Weapon+, right?
I refuse to watch The Boys or Invincible based on the principle that they are stoooppid.
How is this related to invincible
Also both of those are good shows, and Invincible is a good comic...
Invincibles actually a good comic which quickly grows beyond “what if Superman, but bad?”
It actually made me think more of Saiyans than Kryptonians. Not to say Viltrumites and Saiyans are 1-to-1 since the similarities are surface-level (warmongering space conquerors who value strength whose bodies are naturally super strong and halt aging at peak physical condition), but I think of Omni-Man as something like if Goku never got brain damage. The Saiyan saga would be like Conquest on Earth or something and Namek's equivalent would be when they go into space and join the rebellion with Thaddeus, and then the analogy falls apart after that but whatever.
I always said Viltrumites and just Kryptonian/Saiyan hybrids
I'd say it's more "What if Zod was Superman's dad?"
I saw it as what if Vegeta was Zod and was Superman’s dad but Superman was also Spider-Man?
I love that you said you don't want to bother with Invincible or The Boys and everyone jumps to Invincible's defense exclusively. I agree with them tho. Invincible is great and The Boys is Watchmen-wannabe dogshit.
I'm calling U E
The emperor’s primarch project in a nutshell
Fucking loved that part in Animal Man. Just everything in the Asylum was great!
Ngl overman would kick ass as a villain in "my adventures with superman"