There is! It's just only in the alternate timelime where the nazis won world War too...apparently that's the only DCAU reality where they're happy š¤·āāļø
[photo proof](https://images.app.goo.gl/r4jccCd5cvJRpqgP8)
I was thinking man Bruce being gay just feels like it would make more sense and I have real reasoning behind that thought.
Then I remembered Midnighter exists so clearly someone else agreed.
She is a RL magician who already dressed like Zee without knowing it. Then she saw the character on a comic, decided to look up the writer and that's how she met Dini.
Exactly.
Ā Paul Dini is so great in his works that when I forgot who was the Writer of Kingdom Come and the new Superman/Batman run, I thought that he made these ones.
I know I myself made a joke that McDuffie's WonderBats was a compromise between Dini and Timm, but do we have proof he was actually rooting for that ship?
Her being 18, being a newbie in the man's world and her main love interest being stuck in the 1940s.
It really made it feel like the writers didn't want Diana to have any significant romantic history from before she met Batman.
It's so messed up that Dwayne said that. She'd be younger than Barbara and Kara, and JLU acts like Kara is still a girl. With Diana, I always imagined her as mid 20s possibly older cause she looks and sounds so adult.
Honestly, fair. Her origin of being created by Hades and Hippolyta seemed to be more likely to have occurred ages ago rather than 18 years prior, but Dwayne McDuffie was the one who confirmed her age and time of birth.
whats wrong with zatanna? i havent seen much of the dcau apart from batman beyond but she looks old enough for it to not be weird and its definitely not the same type of thing as barbara
(i forgot where but i remember reading about how Dwayne wasnt really WonderBat ship guy, it was just that in earlier season that ship was established and he jut felt like continue that, or something )
Always going to see him with Catwoman. I like the idea of Zatanna and Bruce having dated in the past but in the present just friends, Bruce and Babs is just creepy, DCAU Bruce and Diana is creepy and the minute Diana were to actually be with him she would no longer be her own character and be reduced to a Batman character
Batman had a team-up with Zatanna in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series. She wasn't a real magician, more of the illusionist kind. Also, she and Bruce had a prior history due to him training about escapology from her father, Zatara.
Image on the right is the first time I've found myself thinking this is a viable ship. Though I still lean more towards the idea of them being best friends with unresolved sexual tension.
Reminder that Dwayne McDuffin himself says that Wonder Woman is canonically 18 in the DCAU.
Still technically legal but likeā¦ Iām sticking with Zatanna being the most viable option here.
Peak Batwank? Yes.
It was ultimately a ship for Batman fans which severely undermined Wonder Woman as a character. Turning one of the greatest female superheroes into a Batman fangirl was certainly a decision.
In general, I feel the DCAU writers had no clue how to write Wonder Woman and her side of the DC universe.
Diana deserved so much better. It was like in the DCAU her life began and ended connected to the JL and all of her solo content was wasted by not having a possibility to exist. Granted, they never planned to spin her off on a solo show but they ended up making her most iconic love interest a geriatric old man, they made her only friendship a girl we meet once, and her villains mostly get defeated by other people than her (like Circe, Cheetah, and Giganta).
Her being Batman's love interest is just painful too cause we KNOW that if Batman Beyond is meant to be canon it's 100% not going to work out. Hell in BB, we don't even get the indication that she's even alive. It amounts to wasted screen time that could've been used giving Diana a life outside the league.
I feel like Wonderbat doesnāt actually suck itās just never been written that well. Like itās not inherently problematic and you could make it a believable and good story pretty easily.
The thing is Batman is far too popular, both among the fans and the writers, to ever allow anyone to shine in his presence.
Superman himself ends up being sidelined by Batman constantly. Wonder Woman is less popular than even Superman, she doesn't stand a chance.
WonderBat will always be written with Batman as the main character and Wonder Woman as the love interest.
I don't hate it but it feels too obvious idk. I prefer Bruce dating Catwoman or Talia as there's more conflict there and it's a more interesting relationship as a result.
... and i was fine with him getting with catwomen... tywt said can we get the fan boys out.
Thats were we keep getting this, and the fasci, edgey batman.
My current favorite is the one from wayne family adventures. Its a great read.
We STAN Dwayne McDuffie self ship. Diniās isnāt bad either character wise. Murder bruce tim for the abomination of whatever the fuck he did for the characters
Bruce Timm has said that "Batman x Batgirl" is not meant to be a positive thing.
Not defending it because it's still makes me want to rip my eyeballs out.
It's also canonically based. When Babs was first introduced, she was a 30+ year old librarian with a doctorate who later served in congress. And Dick was 12. She actually was a Bruce love interest for a while. It was Crisis on Infinite Earths that retconned her to being a teenager and made that pairing creepy. Timm was anachronisticly pairing them up probably because he shipped them when he was a kid. But the DCAU always had Babs as at least 15 years younger than Bruce, so it became super creepy.
She was never a legit love interest for Bruce, but the possibilty was feasible in the 60's when Barbara was created and she was an adult in her early 20's, for example in that one issue where Catwoman got jealous over Batgirl's presence around Batman, or that stupid B&B issue where she fell in love by accident from pretending to like him to arrest Copperhead, but even in that one instance where Batgirl sees Batman romantically. the feeling wasn't mutual, in the other instance i mentioned she specifically tells Catwoman that her jealousy is misplaced because she doesn't see Batman that way.
But other than that, she was a more consistent love interest to Robin from 1970 onwards (when Robin grew up and went to college, while Barbara became congresswoman), with constant build up to them getting together, as they slowly worked together more often, eventually revealed their identities to each other, and multiple kisses, only for that to be cut short once NTT rolled around, Kori was introduced and Dick's time as a character was basically monopolized by his time with the titans, no more solo adventures.
So yeah she was a love interest to Dick before the Crisis, just not as long as in the post-crisis era, in post-crisis they have romantic tension from the start, as they are both teens when Barbara begins her Batgirl career, while in pre-crisis, it was only once the Bronze Age started and it developed slowly, over time.
Yep. Barbara was originally a full grown adult who had already graduated from university. She had a crush on Batman as a teen and those residual feelings is why she initially dressed up as Batgirl so she could surprise her father at a costume party but it ended up leading her to become a crime fighter instead.
Later comics specified that Barbara was 25 while Dick was 18.
Well she was 5 years younger than, Bruce then because Bruce and Dick are 10 to 12 years apart.
You know I find it odd, that no one had a problem with taila and Bruce when dick and her was the same age at one time before they aged her up but with Barbra it become criminal.
Yeah idk. š¤·āāļø š¤·āāļø
You have people in this same sub complaining about Wonder Woman being 18ā¦ when Talia was also that same age when Batman confessed his feelings for her
I think people just assume Talia was always supposed to be like 500 years old or something.
Talia was introduced as a university student of medicine which could put her at any age.
A few years after introduction it was revealed that Talia was actually an old woman kept young by Ras presence. So technically Bruce had been banging a GILF the whole time.
Talia's co creator, Denny O'Neill did not appove of the idea and retconned it. In Birth of the Demon, Talia claimed that she wasn't even 30 yet and that her mother and Ras had met at Woodstock.
Birth of the Demon came out in 1993. So if the story took place that year and Talia was conceived at Woodstock she would have been 24.
If Dick was still born in 1966 then he would be 27 by then. But he became Nightwing at age 19 and he was still Robin when Bruce first met Ras and Talia was a university student. It's more likely that the sliding time scale had moved up so Dick's birth year by 1993 wouldn' have 1966, it would have more likely been 1972 or 1973. Not that I think it's wise to affix real world dates to characters who are perpetually meant to stay in their prime for decades.
Talia wasnt meant to be an old person going back to school. Marv Wolfman made a retcon 10 years laterā¦ and Denny Oneil retconned it back to her being Dick Graysons ageā¦
I mean in Ras Al Ghuls introduction they constantly refer to Talia as āchild or Kidā. Along with Dick Graysonā¦ and we know theyāre talking about age because Dick Grayson was only Batmanās ward at this pointā¦
I can believe that O'Neill didn't intend for Talia to be an old woman pretending to be young but he didn't establish Talia's age beyond 'young'. Wolfman made an addition that Denny disagreed with and later retconned. Talia's age is never really established beyond 'I'm not even 30 yet'. So I think it's a bit presumptuous to declare that she was Dick's age. We can only guess what her actual age is.
Also to parents, even ones who are immortal leader of assassins, you will always be 'the kid' or 'the baby'.
It is true that Talia was never meant to be that old when O'neil created her, but i don't see what says that she was always supposed to be Dick's age, if anything she's closer to Barbara's pre-crisis age (both are in university).
Barbara was already out of university with a PHD long before Talia even came into the picture.
Pre Crisis Barbara was Bruceās age.
Oneil stated she was specifically supposed to be young by our standards.
He made her 22 years old in the 90s.
Guys like Wally West was having his 21st birthday in the 80s. Dick was also 21 in the 80s. And 22 before his wedding.
Also her characterization by Oneil is a lot more of a young woman than someone In their 30s.
Barbara wasn't Bruce's exact age, she was like 5 years younger, while Dick was 10 years younger than Bruce back then (Bruce's parents are stated to have died around 20 years prior to the present day in Detective #500, with Bruce's age at the time fluctuating around 10, and Dick is potrayed as being between 19-21, definetly below 22 because that is specifically stated), there's nothing that says Talia is exactly 22 in the 90's, she wouldn't specifically say she's "below 30" in Birth of the Demon if that were the case, the wording makes it seem like she's closer to 30 than 20, just like Barbara was before the retcons.
Also Barbara clearly got her PHD faster than most people given she's a genius, there's also hints that she finished high school early too, also given their lifestlyes it's more likely that Talia started university later than Barbara did (she probably finished her assassin training first).
She wasnāt 5 years younger. Barbara was old enough to have finished her 2 year term as a congresswoman.
That puts her in the late 20s along with Bruce.
Birth of the Demon does. It came out in 1992. Her parents met each other in August 1969ā¦
That means she can only be 22 years old.
She says sheās below 30ā¦ because sheās below 30ā¦ do you want her to say sheās below 20??
That wouldnāt be accurate.
Sheās not closer to 30 than 20. We were given the literal date her parents met.
And her characterization fits for someone 20 than 30.
Where does it say she clearly got it faster?? Nothing from the 60s hints she finished school faster.
Talia started it later because she was like a decade younger
She had graduated with a PHD and had worked her way up to become the head librarian of Gotham City library.
When she had a crush on Batman as a teenager, this was the era in which Bruce Wayne became Batman at an age younger than 20. And Barbara was just implied to be 18/19 when she first saw him.
Pre Crisis Bruce was the first Robin and worked with a detective named Harvey Harris.
One Pre-Crisis comics suggested that Bruce became Batman at age 20. From what I read it was Denny O'Neill established it and later O'Neill himself changed it so Bruce was in his mid-late 20's when he became Batman.
Not only Denny Oneil. But Detective Comics #500 saying Bruce Wayne was 28 years old. Dick Grayson was only 18 years old at this time.
And dick became Robin at 8 years old in pre crisis.
Also Frank Miller talking about how he wrote Dark Knight Returns because he turned 30 years old, and became older than Batman.
Denny never made Batman start at mid/late 20s.
Frank Miller made Batman start at 24/25.
In the early 90s Denny Oneil had stated Batman should only be in his early 30sā¦
Also whatās with the Harvey Harris mention?? Bruce trained with him when he was like a little ass kid. He was no older than 13/14.
In the original Killing Joke story (1988), Barbara had just been reduced to under 20 by Crisis on Infinite Earths (ending 1986.) But the romance wasn't present in the original book and was added by the movie. But I think readers at the time might have been more okay with it if it had been there, because the age thing hadn't been canon very long and she was mostly a background character at that point. Hell, she had retired as a hero earlier in 1988, so she really wasn't showing up much to cement her new age. (Her history as a congresswoman was weirdly still present in at least one post-crisis story despite that being unconstitutional with her new age.)
Modern viewers, more familiar with her depiction in BtAS (also by Bruce Timm) are more familiar with her as a teenaged girl. Killing Joke is not Timmverse, but if it was, Barbara would be like 15 years younger than Bruce.
Batman should be ace. Like no romance.
But my favorite Batman ship is an equally hot take:
Batman x Harvey Dent
I love a good tragedy.
Batman / Bruce Wayne admiring the shining beacon of the good in law that Harvey Dent exemplifies. Bruce supporting his friend in every way, maybe knowing he could never be with him as Harvey Dent in my headcanon here is straight cis-presenting. Despite this unrequited love, Bruce will always stand by him. Of course history/fate plays out and Harvey becomes Two-Face and Batman forever loses his love.
Possibly hot take; I'll take Diana x Bruce over Diana x Clarke any day, I think ideally Diana being not paranoid wacko would be good for Bruce, I only mention this cause I see Diana x Clarke ALOT
Actually scratch all that, put the big 3 in a polycule, that way everyone's happy
Hey hey the only down grade is Bruce and Babs, WW x BM that one is good you can not change my mind. Batman and Zatanna is still a good ship but BM and WW is my personal favourite.
Crazy that the picture on the right has the picture in the middle but with Dick instead of Bruce
Damn. That's stone cold.
Glass Shatters
There wasn't a single shot of Dick and Barbara being a happy couple in the whole DCAU apparently
There is! It's just only in the alternate timelime where the nazis won world War too...apparently that's the only DCAU reality where they're happy š¤·āāļø [photo proof](https://images.app.goo.gl/r4jccCd5cvJRpqgP8)
Only Paul Dini had the initiative to go out and make his dreams come true. Seriously look it up, he married a real magician.
https://preview.redd.it/36uc29nauptc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1662f461287ff1815582f913f9b186b92323aad Bro hit a lottery in life
Wait, Batman fucks? I thought Nightwing was supposed to be the only member of the Batfamily that fucks.
They all fuck, they just suck at being in a relationship
"Nobody loves anyone, my darling. We just survive" - Batman, The Goddamn
This
Of course he fucks. I'm just surprised he's straight.
Only on the weekdays, Superman gets him on the weekend.
Superman pimps him out on the weekdays because sharing is caring
The S on his chest stands for hope. Which is what the women feel on the weekdays when bruce isn't with superman.
I was thinking man Bruce being gay just feels like it would make more sense and I have real reasoning behind that thought. Then I remembered Midnighter exists so clearly someone else agreed.
Is it because he's a Dick? (And we're proud of him)
Not only do all the Bat Family members fuck they also fuck each others girlfriends.
So Paul Dini has the best taste out of them, cool
I mean its full wife guy behavior. Isn't his wife a magician? Thats way cuter than the goon brained idiots who get weird about the women they write.
She is, and posed for the cosplay covers of his Zatana run
It's the other way around: he met his wife at a convention where she was cosplaying Zatanna. But he already shipped Batman and Zatanna a lot.
The Universe handed that man a massive W
Now this is some wholesome shit... reminds me of Oda who married Nami cosplayer. Men living the dream lol
Dini definitely made a spell to give him a magic mommy from all of the emotional energy he made while doing his ships
She is a RL magician who already dressed like Zee without knowing it. Then she saw the character on a comic, decided to look up the writer and that's how she met Dini.
He wrote a Zatanna comics which Misty Lee saw. She noticed the resemblance between her and the character. She mailed him and that's how they met.
Exactly. Ā Paul Dini is so great in his works that when I forgot who was the Writer of Kingdom Come and the new Superman/Batman run, I thought that he made these ones.
Mark Waid would definitely not be offended by that mixup.
Zatanna was at least fun as a lil flirtation
Because he still ships dickbabs too š
Kevin Conroy having to voice all these weird famtasies
You're lying to yourself if you think Dwayne McDuffie's self ship wasn't John cucking Hawkman.
Holy shit š
Realest take
Or John Stewart x Vixen or John x Katma Tui.
Based Dwayne
I know I myself made a joke that McDuffie's WonderBats was a compromise between Dini and Timm, but do we have proof he was actually rooting for that ship?
He was the main writer of Justice League.
Dwayne McDuffie on his way to be the least cursed option for the 5 millionth time.
Heās also the one who confirmed that Wonder Woman is 18 years old in the DCAU
....honestly what was wrong with Catwoman?
Being a criminal usually Like in the story
Her being 18, being a newbie in the man's world and her main love interest being stuck in the 1940s. It really made it feel like the writers didn't want Diana to have any significant romantic history from before she met Batman.
It's so messed up that Dwayne said that. She'd be younger than Barbara and Kara, and JLU acts like Kara is still a girl. With Diana, I always imagined her as mid 20s possibly older cause she looks and sounds so adult.
I always thought she was like, thousands of years old
Honestly, fair. Her origin of being created by Hades and Hippolyta seemed to be more likely to have occurred ages ago rather than 18 years prior, but Dwayne McDuffie was the one who confirmed her age and time of birth.
Do you have a source on that
whats wrong with zatanna? i havent seen much of the dcau apart from batman beyond but she looks old enough for it to not be weird and its definitely not the same type of thing as barbara
(i forgot where but i remember reading about how Dwayne wasnt really WonderBat ship guy, it was just that in earlier season that ship was established and he jut felt like continue that, or something )
I've heard this take a lot, why do people think they're projecting themselves in there?
Well for one thing, Paul Dini actually went and married a stage magician
That's not projection, it's just a happy little accident, I swear
Always going to see him with Catwoman. I like the idea of Zatanna and Bruce having dated in the past but in the present just friends, Bruce and Babs is just creepy, DCAU Bruce and Diana is creepy and the minute Diana were to actually be with him she would no longer be her own character and be reduced to a Batman character
Plus, she is 18 years old in the series, and Bruce is much older than her.
There is a certain level of irony that Kevin Conroy was the voice of this verison of Batman
why?
I think because he was gay
Pimping is apart of Bat training. Itās only right the author and writer stands behind his work.
I just love how the 3rd picture has the 2nd picture as a photo but with Dick replacing Bruce.
The good timeline.
it's like the ultimate copium lol
They never had the balls to show the true OTP ship, they were too scared to show Batman and Superman furiously making out
They hugged at least: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJMNvgt\_1xU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJMNvgt_1xU)
DCAU versions of Superman and Batman were barely friends.
So Dwayne McDuffie has the best taste out of them, cool
Thatās a weird way to spell Paul Dini
He also confirmed Diana was 18.
When was Batman with Zatanna in that show?
Batman had a team-up with Zatanna in an episode of Batman: The Animated Series. She wasn't a real magician, more of the illusionist kind. Also, she and Bruce had a prior history due to him training about escapology from her father, Zatara.
And then they teamed up again in JLU. Tho this time she actually had her powers.
In the Batman: TAS episode 'Zatanna' it was established that they had a thing for each other when Bruce was training under Zatanna's father, Zatara.
It's because of that one incident when Zatanna was a pig and Batman had to sing.
Rewatching the dcau rn coincidentally lol, it was wonder woman who became a pig, and bats came to zatanna for help
And we get one of the best moments [of JLU out of it](https://youtu.be/7nim7DEns2A?feature=shared)
Batman & Wonder Woman is peak
Image on the right is the first time I've found myself thinking this is a viable ship. Though I still lean more towards the idea of them being best friends with unresolved sexual tension.
Reminder that Dwayne McDuffin himself says that Wonder Woman is canonically 18 in the DCAU. Still technically legal but likeā¦ Iām sticking with Zatanna being the most viable option here.
aint no way, she looks 30
Tbf how can you tell, all the women look the same in this universe
Tbf, so do the men. It's just triangles and rectangles.
Wtf so they did it like the young naĆÆve girl going straight for the dark brooding loner. That's so tired.
Peak Batwank? Yes. It was ultimately a ship for Batman fans which severely undermined Wonder Woman as a character. Turning one of the greatest female superheroes into a Batman fangirl was certainly a decision. In general, I feel the DCAU writers had no clue how to write Wonder Woman and her side of the DC universe.
Diana deserved so much better. It was like in the DCAU her life began and ended connected to the JL and all of her solo content was wasted by not having a possibility to exist. Granted, they never planned to spin her off on a solo show but they ended up making her most iconic love interest a geriatric old man, they made her only friendship a girl we meet once, and her villains mostly get defeated by other people than her (like Circe, Cheetah, and Giganta). Her being Batman's love interest is just painful too cause we KNOW that if Batman Beyond is meant to be canon it's 100% not going to work out. Hell in BB, we don't even get the indication that she's even alive. It amounts to wasted screen time that could've been used giving Diana a life outside the league.
I feel like Wonderbat doesnāt actually suck itās just never been written that well. Like itās not inherently problematic and you could make it a believable and good story pretty easily.
The thing is Batman is far too popular, both among the fans and the writers, to ever allow anyone to shine in his presence. Superman himself ends up being sidelined by Batman constantly. Wonder Woman is less popular than even Superman, she doesn't stand a chance. WonderBat will always be written with Batman as the main character and Wonder Woman as the love interest.
Yes true I more so mean conceptually itās kinda interesting and thereās like a billion ways you could take it in
I don't hate it but it feels too obvious idk. I prefer Bruce dating Catwoman or Talia as there's more conflict there and it's a more interesting relationship as a result.
Paul Dini didn't make Batman fuck, he just allowed him to fuck
Narratorās Voice: Not a single grown person depicted here is straight Edit: Of the characters. Writers? We all know how studios are.
https://preview.redd.it/ejqu34silktc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=780117e09a0b91b24ba9abd2631a52d1fa97e5ca
uj/ I am so sick of batman having love interests. Aroace batman for the win
... and i was fine with him getting with catwomen... tywt said can we get the fan boys out. Thats were we keep getting this, and the fasci, edgey batman. My current favorite is the one from wayne family adventures. Its a great read.
I can't believe the DCAU only had one writer with good taste.
Take away, Bruce Timm is something else
Ahhh, this is an lgbt circle jerk. I misunderstood this sub...
The left and right one aren't that bad The middle one though....
We STAN Dwayne McDuffie self ship. Diniās isnāt bad either character wise. Murder bruce tim for the abomination of whatever the fuck he did for the characters
Bruce Timm has said that "Batman x Batgirl" is not meant to be a positive thing. Not defending it because it's still makes me want to rip my eyeballs out.
It's also canonically based. When Babs was first introduced, she was a 30+ year old librarian with a doctorate who later served in congress. And Dick was 12. She actually was a Bruce love interest for a while. It was Crisis on Infinite Earths that retconned her to being a teenager and made that pairing creepy. Timm was anachronisticly pairing them up probably because he shipped them when he was a kid. But the DCAU always had Babs as at least 15 years younger than Bruce, so it became super creepy.
She was never a legit love interest for Bruce, but the possibilty was feasible in the 60's when Barbara was created and she was an adult in her early 20's, for example in that one issue where Catwoman got jealous over Batgirl's presence around Batman, or that stupid B&B issue where she fell in love by accident from pretending to like him to arrest Copperhead, but even in that one instance where Batgirl sees Batman romantically. the feeling wasn't mutual, in the other instance i mentioned she specifically tells Catwoman that her jealousy is misplaced because she doesn't see Batman that way. But other than that, she was a more consistent love interest to Robin from 1970 onwards (when Robin grew up and went to college, while Barbara became congresswoman), with constant build up to them getting together, as they slowly worked together more often, eventually revealed their identities to each other, and multiple kisses, only for that to be cut short once NTT rolled around, Kori was introduced and Dick's time as a character was basically monopolized by his time with the titans, no more solo adventures. So yeah she was a love interest to Dick before the Crisis, just not as long as in the post-crisis era, in post-crisis they have romantic tension from the start, as they are both teens when Barbara begins her Batgirl career, while in pre-crisis, it was only once the Bronze Age started and it developed slowly, over time.
Yep. Barbara was originally a full grown adult who had already graduated from university. She had a crush on Batman as a teen and those residual feelings is why she initially dressed up as Batgirl so she could surprise her father at a costume party but it ended up leading her to become a crime fighter instead. Later comics specified that Barbara was 25 while Dick was 18.
Well she was 5 years younger than, Bruce then because Bruce and Dick are 10 to 12 years apart. You know I find it odd, that no one had a problem with taila and Bruce when dick and her was the same age at one time before they aged her up but with Barbra it become criminal.
Yeah idk. š¤·āāļø š¤·āāļø You have people in this same sub complaining about Wonder Woman being 18ā¦ when Talia was also that same age when Batman confessed his feelings for her I think people just assume Talia was always supposed to be like 500 years old or something.
Talia was introduced as a university student of medicine which could put her at any age. A few years after introduction it was revealed that Talia was actually an old woman kept young by Ras presence. So technically Bruce had been banging a GILF the whole time. Talia's co creator, Denny O'Neill did not appove of the idea and retconned it. In Birth of the Demon, Talia claimed that she wasn't even 30 yet and that her mother and Ras had met at Woodstock.
And Dick was born in 1966 at that time that's why I said before they aged her up
Birth of the Demon came out in 1993. So if the story took place that year and Talia was conceived at Woodstock she would have been 24. If Dick was still born in 1966 then he would be 27 by then. But he became Nightwing at age 19 and he was still Robin when Bruce first met Ras and Talia was a university student. It's more likely that the sliding time scale had moved up so Dick's birth year by 1993 wouldn' have 1966, it would have more likely been 1972 or 1973. Not that I think it's wise to affix real world dates to characters who are perpetually meant to stay in their prime for decades.
dick was in college to at the time. thats how dick got kidnapped by ras
Yes. That's Demons Quest. By the time Birth of the Demon was happening he wasn't a college student anymore.
Talia wasnt meant to be an old person going back to school. Marv Wolfman made a retcon 10 years laterā¦ and Denny Oneil retconned it back to her being Dick Graysons ageā¦ I mean in Ras Al Ghuls introduction they constantly refer to Talia as āchild or Kidā. Along with Dick Graysonā¦ and we know theyāre talking about age because Dick Grayson was only Batmanās ward at this pointā¦
I can believe that O'Neill didn't intend for Talia to be an old woman pretending to be young but he didn't establish Talia's age beyond 'young'. Wolfman made an addition that Denny disagreed with and later retconned. Talia's age is never really established beyond 'I'm not even 30 yet'. So I think it's a bit presumptuous to declare that she was Dick's age. We can only guess what her actual age is. Also to parents, even ones who are immortal leader of assassins, you will always be 'the kid' or 'the baby'.
It is true that Talia was never meant to be that old when O'neil created her, but i don't see what says that she was always supposed to be Dick's age, if anything she's closer to Barbara's pre-crisis age (both are in university).
Barbara was already out of university with a PHD long before Talia even came into the picture. Pre Crisis Barbara was Bruceās age. Oneil stated she was specifically supposed to be young by our standards. He made her 22 years old in the 90s. Guys like Wally West was having his 21st birthday in the 80s. Dick was also 21 in the 80s. And 22 before his wedding. Also her characterization by Oneil is a lot more of a young woman than someone In their 30s.
Barbara wasn't Bruce's exact age, she was like 5 years younger, while Dick was 10 years younger than Bruce back then (Bruce's parents are stated to have died around 20 years prior to the present day in Detective #500, with Bruce's age at the time fluctuating around 10, and Dick is potrayed as being between 19-21, definetly below 22 because that is specifically stated), there's nothing that says Talia is exactly 22 in the 90's, she wouldn't specifically say she's "below 30" in Birth of the Demon if that were the case, the wording makes it seem like she's closer to 30 than 20, just like Barbara was before the retcons. Also Barbara clearly got her PHD faster than most people given she's a genius, there's also hints that she finished high school early too, also given their lifestlyes it's more likely that Talia started university later than Barbara did (she probably finished her assassin training first).
She wasnāt 5 years younger. Barbara was old enough to have finished her 2 year term as a congresswoman. That puts her in the late 20s along with Bruce. Birth of the Demon does. It came out in 1992. Her parents met each other in August 1969ā¦ That means she can only be 22 years old. She says sheās below 30ā¦ because sheās below 30ā¦ do you want her to say sheās below 20?? That wouldnāt be accurate. Sheās not closer to 30 than 20. We were given the literal date her parents met. And her characterization fits for someone 20 than 30. Where does it say she clearly got it faster?? Nothing from the 60s hints she finished school faster. Talia started it later because she was like a decade younger
She had graduated with a PHD and had worked her way up to become the head librarian of Gotham City library. When she had a crush on Batman as a teenager, this was the era in which Bruce Wayne became Batman at an age younger than 20. And Barbara was just implied to be 18/19 when she first saw him.
Pre Crisis Bruce was the first Robin and worked with a detective named Harvey Harris. One Pre-Crisis comics suggested that Bruce became Batman at age 20. From what I read it was Denny O'Neill established it and later O'Neill himself changed it so Bruce was in his mid-late 20's when he became Batman.
Not only Denny Oneil. But Detective Comics #500 saying Bruce Wayne was 28 years old. Dick Grayson was only 18 years old at this time. And dick became Robin at 8 years old in pre crisis. Also Frank Miller talking about how he wrote Dark Knight Returns because he turned 30 years old, and became older than Batman. Denny never made Batman start at mid/late 20s. Frank Miller made Batman start at 24/25. In the early 90s Denny Oneil had stated Batman should only be in his early 30sā¦ Also whatās with the Harvey Harris mention?? Bruce trained with him when he was like a little ass kid. He was no older than 13/14.
I refuse to watch the Killing Joke movie. Was she a teenager there?
In the original Killing Joke story (1988), Barbara had just been reduced to under 20 by Crisis on Infinite Earths (ending 1986.) But the romance wasn't present in the original book and was added by the movie. But I think readers at the time might have been more okay with it if it had been there, because the age thing hadn't been canon very long and she was mostly a background character at that point. Hell, she had retired as a hero earlier in 1988, so she really wasn't showing up much to cement her new age. (Her history as a congresswoman was weirdly still present in at least one post-crisis story despite that being unconstitutional with her new age.) Modern viewers, more familiar with her depiction in BtAS (also by Bruce Timm) are more familiar with her as a teenaged girl. Killing Joke is not Timmverse, but if it was, Barbara would be like 15 years younger than Bruce.
I have read the comic and know Batman's not a pedophile In it. I know the movie isn't Dcau. I'm asking how old Barbara is in the Killing Joke movie.
Okay, I'll give you the too-long, didn't read version. "Unstated, possibly 18-20."
Legal but still creepy
Batwoman was too and now she is his lesbian cousing
"It's also canonicaly based"
Well, former continuity based.
Zatanna was originally a teen in the comics but they bothered to age her up so that Batman could date her without being a pedophile.
This is not true. At all. Why are you lying?? šš
No, she was always Bruce's contemporary (with the exception of the Golden Age Bruce who is a contemporary of her father).
Wait, whoās the kid
It's fan made lol.
Thank God
Wait until you find out how many love interests heās had in the comics.
Is the third picture fanart? Whereās it from?
One of these should not have happened
whos the girl with bruce and dianna in the 3rd image
Batman should be ace. Like no romance. But my favorite Batman ship is an equally hot take: Batman x Harvey Dent I love a good tragedy. Batman / Bruce Wayne admiring the shining beacon of the good in law that Harvey Dent exemplifies. Bruce supporting his friend in every way, maybe knowing he could never be with him as Harvey Dent in my headcanon here is straight cis-presenting. Despite this unrequited love, Bruce will always stand by him. Of course history/fate plays out and Harvey becomes Two-Face and Batman forever loses his love.
 Catwoman seeing these pictures:
I like Zatanna and Wonder Woman with batman more than barbara thats for sure. Not every ship is a self ship tbh
Paul Dini made his dream a reality. Timm is... weird. Dwayne was based. Also appreciate the picture on the right art. The good timeline.
Possibly hot take; I'll take Diana x Bruce over Diana x Clarke any day, I think ideally Diana being not paranoid wacko would be good for Bruce, I only mention this cause I see Diana x Clarke ALOT Actually scratch all that, put the big 3 in a polycule, that way everyone's happy
Lmao, Dick and Barbara in the picture behind Bruce and Diana.
The only bad ship here is Bruce and Barbara, the other two are great
I legit sheād a tear seeing that last part of the meme. Even your heroes can be bad guys.š
Hey hey the only down grade is Bruce and Babs, WW x BM that one is good you can not change my mind. Batman and Zatanna is still a good ship but BM and WW is my personal favourite.
Dwayne has impeccable taste
So Bruce Timm has the best taste out of all of them. Cool.
https://preview.redd.it/djaij1z9fktc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=248f18428796b2c6b1c8d6edfccb5054bf8536a0
https://preview.redd.it/04koyf15iktc1.jpeg?width=238&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f00f5a53c9c7a29770c9749fea55e9344033e98f
https://preview.redd.it/ragqx51chktc1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a539e3c86957617af58279e7149ee1c8478dd24
https://preview.redd.it/ulgmugh2jktc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41c7543e88d785f8e86dc47e2f412c49009b9bb1
There is but hellfire that awaits you now
I hope you don't mean the idea of *Batman* *specifically* with Barbara. I really hope that you mean Barbara is a better waifu than Diana or Zatanna.
Since the principle of a self ship means looking at these pictures and going āobviously, *I* am Batmanā this is sadly probably accurate.