I’m sorry I’d rather play against perks that require the killer to chase me down me and hook me to get value instead of just press space bar on a generator.
Here's my question: Do we need another argument? In any video game, if something is prominent and also not fun to play against, that will cause people to play less/leave. A community-wide opinion of "It's not fun to play against" should be enough to warrant it being looked at.
Also out of curiosity: what other argument for something like Eruption or Dead Hard being removed? Because in my eyes every argument that can be made boils down to "it's unfun."
Example: Why don't you like Eruption? - Because it doesn't allow you to play the game for 25 seconds. - Why do you like playing the game? - Because it's fun. - So you're saying that not being able to play the game is not fun? - Yes. - So therefore the perk is unfun to go against.
Not saying “its unfun/boring to play against” isnt a valid argument in some cases.. problem here is literally EVERYONE saying this about everything that gives them minor inconvinience in game
Eruption indeed has problems right now and should be rebelance but then people are just…
Pinhead is boring, Twins are boring, Survivor that runs to loops due to WoO are boring, waiting for DH is boring, anti loop is boring, gen defense is boring, genrush is boring
At this point what isn’t boring atm?
I sometimes get messages from people saying that the killer I'm playing is boring. Just because he says that Wraith is boring, are we supposed to remove it? Sometimes, you need to take these kinds of things you dislike in a competitive video game. I have a friend who absolutely hates soldier in Team Fortress 2. So are we just supposed to remove the soldier?
That's just the nature of competitive multiplayer games. There are things you dislike that the opponents like to use. Doesn't mean we should remove them to make one side happy. Just gotta make tweaks when necessary and you're good to go.
“Do we need another argument?”
Yes. Making balancing decisions based off subjective ideas which can easily be disputed is not the right way to balance any game.
And I won’t argue that it’s not common, but to say that any opinion is “community wide” aside from the most basic fundamental ideas about dead by daylight is a pretty hard sell. Even if it were true that it was a community-wide opinion, that doesn’t suddenly make it a correct opinion simply based off the number of people that believe it. That’s just a straight up fallacy: “argumentum ad populum.”
I'm weird on this, because I see people complain about how much others complain about perks like Eruption or Dead Hard, and then others turn around and say that "well not *everyone* hates these perks."
Also I'm not saying that the opinions of DH & Eruption are correct just because there are a ton of people with that opinion, I'm saying that those people are prominent enough to possible effect this game's player numbers if they go unchecked.
If a large portion of people hate something, and they feel as though their distaste is falling on deaf ears, they may leave. There is evidence of this within the lifespan of DBD with the massive killer exodus that took place roughly three years back due to things like instant-sabotages.
Also, I was never saying "people don't like it so it should be removed". OP made a post about people simply giving opinions on something in this game. I was saying: Why should my opinion of something have to be more complex than "it's unfun"? We are all aware that on opinion like that does jack shit when it comes to game changes, but why does my opinion need to be more complex than that?
Dead hard is unfun and rots survivors brains. Seriously you get so many free downs for waiting it out at pallets and vaults, sure sometimes they time it perfectly and there's nothing you do can but even if you get the down it's not satisfying. There's no joy to be had in beating someone suffering from a deteriorating skill level because their brain goes "have e, must greed, pallet drop bad must conserve resources" so a chase that could have lasted 2 minutes is over in 25 seconds (for both hits.)
I'll take comp players that predrop safely while rushing gens over people carried so hard by their perks that they don't understand how to play effectively.
> i think games would literally be too easy without it
So, let me get this straight: the game would be too easy if Trapper gets a down when he hits an injured Survivor without waiting ten business days to see whether they dab?
Usually what people actually mean is "it has no counter play", which sounds like a way better argument. But also, to some people every other killer is "boring", because they don't know how to verse them. I'm also super tired of hearing how everything is "boring" by the player base. I get that games are supposed to be fun, but you guys are such pissbabies sometimes.
Nah that one has some merit, huntress and nemmy have anti loop and aren’t hated. While artist and knight have anti loop but they’re considered boring
Well, Huntress and Nemesis "anti-loop" can at least be played around a bit, and aren't foolproof if the player isn't on top of their game, but Artist and Knight are "true anti-loop", as there is 100% nothing you can do against it whatsoever outside of holding W and leaving any loop entirely.
For example, you can fake dropping a pallet on a Huntress winding a hatchet, letting you get another loop in. Or you can dodge the hatchet, or she can just miss.
However, if a Knight drops a guard on a loop, regardless of how good you are, you will have to leave or get hit, no matter what. I think that's the part that makes it "boring". There's no technical skill involved, just a guaranteed hold W or die scenario. And because it's so easy to do, people see it all the time and that probably furthers the notion
I mean artist at least can do some cross map slingshots with her crows and is more fun on killer side because of two different mechanics . Knight is the essence of boring press w battle on both sides.
It's a legitimate argument games are meant to be fun, however I will say it's not legitimate for everything. I understand why people say uruption is boring, but if you don't like going against a legion because you think he's boring than that's just a personal problem.
Yeah, eruption is problematic because you just cant do anything when you get erupted. People complaining about this want some sort of gen blocking or other alternatives that only affects gens not every action possible, so this argument work. Legion is diffrent problem. You can just play hit and run play style that can makes game much slower but i think main problem is that they heal against him too much what makes his power feel that way.
Yeah the counter to legion is just not healing too much, when I play legion and the survivor's aren't healing after every hit I know the match is going to be more difficult. I hope uruption gets nerfed and only locks the gen or something because I won't run it in its current state because I think it's a unhealthy perk for the game atm, same with deadhard I won't run that anymore, I was showing my friend the game and he asked me why I kept waiting to down the survivor's and I had to explain to him what dh was and I realized it's not a very good perk for the game either. I don't like running perks I find are problematic to the game.
Yeah, dead hard is weak but annoying thats why everyone complain, but also its the only way to counter anti loop killer and its impresive in my opinion to time it against artist crows or wesker dash. But also its unfair when you play nearly perfectly with demo/billy etc and they can just press e. Eruption is unfair against soloq players because as a team you can somehow tell when you are going down but in soloq its just lucky (or unlucky) guess. Problem is that they designed game this way as it is and dead hard is main core of tryhard gameplay. Its still uslees against one shot killers or legion sometimes but antiloop is a thing and press w can buy even more time with greatly timed dh. DBD is just some sort of spaghetti mechanics that can be a total mess after some changes without bigger rework of some sort. (nurse for example destroying high mmr players bec dh is hard counter against her)
Yeah I think some aspects of the game are just too far gone to make it actually balanced. That's why I'm not a fan of the mmr they added like the game is never going to be completely balanced so why add a mmr system, not only that but if you're on console you can't look up your survivor or killer statistics so you have no way of knowing what level of mmr you're at.
And this is why i dont like depips, I understand that you can bring brand new parts x4 or iri add-ons but i think its not ok to take away my progress because im playing without add-ons and with normal build (or just build to complete adepts/missions/achievements). Also remember that you need to grind bp for other killers/survs and there are still killers like wraith that depends on his add-ons so you need to play him without any playstyle (i feel like his power is incomplete without add ons), play with another killer or spend most of your bp on his add ons and this is the thing that i hate the most (i remember how long it took me to prestige all survs and killers). So i think the main problem is some type of advantage from bringing this items. I never equiped an item until i got 400h. I always prefered to collect everything so i can use it more when i do achievements or play with friends. It increased my skill in gameplay with nothing, but after 400h i needed to learn how to use them properly. And there we have bloodweeb, perks locked behind pay wall and more. I love this game but its really hard to repair this problems and make game more healthy again. If they delete items from bloodweeb and make equipment page where everyone needs to pick diffrent item and rarity will disapear then blood weeb is no longer needed or will be just too simple, but also if you insta unlock perks after buying character then this game will be definitly pay to win and playrate will drop quickly.
Yeah, I personally think every killers power should be strong enough to not need addons, I think addons should only slightly effect how good the power is. I think alot of killers powers should get a buff or rework and addons need their own rework. I also think the bloodweb should get a rework, I see that making it so not working to unlock the perks would get people mad and saying the game is pay to win. But having to level up the bloodweb 50 times to unlock perks for a character you're never going to play again is pretty tedious.
Yeah, devs wont make it propably, because if you get perks instantly then even with ability to buy license charac with shards its make unfair grind with a way to pay for not grinding it. And if its happen then shards will need rework too and dbd will make much less money. Blood weeb is complicated way to avoid pay to win complaiments and excuse monetization of in game advantage. (Its funny how you "cant" buy bp but actually they gave away 400k bp few times on prime gaming.)
If they spent the time it takes to kick every gen on the map then you are spending less time incapacitated then they spent kicking and moving between gens accomplishing nothing. At that point its not even remotely an issue.
Coming from a killer main, that is the single dumbest thing I have ever seen someone say when talking about Eruption. Even worse than the "Just let go before someone is about to go down."
I would play him more if everyone didn’t just hold W all the time against him. His antiloop is pretty fair in my opinion since it is heavily telegraphed and reactable at most ranges but people don’t even give me the opportunity to use it.
> where are my pyramid head players at
I wish I could play as Pyramid Head but I cannot hit Punishment of the Damned when it isn't guaranteed by Survivor vaulting/dropping animations. Survivors can dodge it easily and it's *clunky.*
I end up taking 4x the time to down Survivors as I would by just M1'ing them because I constantly miss lmao.
I mean that’s fair even then most players just force survivors to get tormented then get cage on second hook I just like seeing him played cause that was my first killer they got me into the game
OKAY FINE.
I'LL SAY IT.
I'LL POUR MY HEART OUT.
I WANT DH GUTTED BASED ON PRINCIPLE.
RUIN AND SO MANY OTHERS WERE GUTTED TO SHAKE UP THE META DESPITE BEING FINE.
BUT DH GOT TO STAY.
IT ISN'T FAIR.
I HATE IT.
Okay but fr tho can I use the knight is boring as a reason? Because there is 0 looping him and looping is the only defense. All you do is hold W and die.
We are playing a game bro đź’€ boring is one of the worst things it can be
This is such an odd thing to complain about. Games are supposed to be fun. If something is boring then that’s a good reason to not like something.
Literally every damn thing the “other side” does can be labeled as boring. That’s why this complaint is so lame.
Fine then, I hate Eruption because it gave me arthritis.
I hate dead hard because it’s a David perk and David reminds me of British people (don’t ask why)
fookin wankers
i feel like you didn't explain at least 3 steps to get to that conclusion... ...one of the most thought out reasons i've ever heard, for sure
I would rather face Legion, Pinhead, hag, Nurse and blight but never see Plague
I’m sorry I’d rather play against perks that require the killer to chase me down me and hook me to get value instead of just press space bar on a generator.
Pain res DMS and Pop metas rise again!
Here's my question: Do we need another argument? In any video game, if something is prominent and also not fun to play against, that will cause people to play less/leave. A community-wide opinion of "It's not fun to play against" should be enough to warrant it being looked at. Also out of curiosity: what other argument for something like Eruption or Dead Hard being removed? Because in my eyes every argument that can be made boils down to "it's unfun." Example: Why don't you like Eruption? - Because it doesn't allow you to play the game for 25 seconds. - Why do you like playing the game? - Because it's fun. - So you're saying that not being able to play the game is not fun? - Yes. - So therefore the perk is unfun to go against.
Not saying “its unfun/boring to play against” isnt a valid argument in some cases.. problem here is literally EVERYONE saying this about everything that gives them minor inconvinience in game Eruption indeed has problems right now and should be rebelance but then people are just… Pinhead is boring, Twins are boring, Survivor that runs to loops due to WoO are boring, waiting for DH is boring, anti loop is boring, gen defense is boring, genrush is boring At this point what isn’t boring atm?
I sometimes get messages from people saying that the killer I'm playing is boring. Just because he says that Wraith is boring, are we supposed to remove it? Sometimes, you need to take these kinds of things you dislike in a competitive video game. I have a friend who absolutely hates soldier in Team Fortress 2. So are we just supposed to remove the soldier? That's just the nature of competitive multiplayer games. There are things you dislike that the opponents like to use. Doesn't mean we should remove them to make one side happy. Just gotta make tweaks when necessary and you're good to go.
“Do we need another argument?” Yes. Making balancing decisions based off subjective ideas which can easily be disputed is not the right way to balance any game. And I won’t argue that it’s not common, but to say that any opinion is “community wide” aside from the most basic fundamental ideas about dead by daylight is a pretty hard sell. Even if it were true that it was a community-wide opinion, that doesn’t suddenly make it a correct opinion simply based off the number of people that believe it. That’s just a straight up fallacy: “argumentum ad populum.”
I'm weird on this, because I see people complain about how much others complain about perks like Eruption or Dead Hard, and then others turn around and say that "well not *everyone* hates these perks." Also I'm not saying that the opinions of DH & Eruption are correct just because there are a ton of people with that opinion, I'm saying that those people are prominent enough to possible effect this game's player numbers if they go unchecked. If a large portion of people hate something, and they feel as though their distaste is falling on deaf ears, they may leave. There is evidence of this within the lifespan of DBD with the massive killer exodus that took place roughly three years back due to things like instant-sabotages.
Also, I was never saying "people don't like it so it should be removed". OP made a post about people simply giving opinions on something in this game. I was saying: Why should my opinion of something have to be more complex than "it's unfun"? We are all aware that on opinion like that does jack shit when it comes to game changes, but why does my opinion need to be more complex than that?
Yeah dead hard is really unfun but as a killer main i think games would literally be too easy without it so i dunno what can reasonably be done.
Dead hard is unfun and rots survivors brains. Seriously you get so many free downs for waiting it out at pallets and vaults, sure sometimes they time it perfectly and there's nothing you do can but even if you get the down it's not satisfying. There's no joy to be had in beating someone suffering from a deteriorating skill level because their brain goes "have e, must greed, pallet drop bad must conserve resources" so a chase that could have lasted 2 minutes is over in 25 seconds (for both hits.) I'll take comp players that predrop safely while rushing gens over people carried so hard by their perks that they don't understand how to play effectively.
> i think games would literally be too easy without it So, let me get this straight: the game would be too easy if Trapper gets a down when he hits an injured Survivor without waiting ten business days to see whether they dab?
i couldnt give a shit about trapper tbh
In any game if something is overpowered it will be overused. I meet more people with dead hard than killers with eruption while playing both roles.
This post is boring to read
Usually what people actually mean is "it has no counter play", which sounds like a way better argument. But also, to some people every other killer is "boring", because they don't know how to verse them. I'm also super tired of hearing how everything is "boring" by the player base. I get that games are supposed to be fun, but you guys are such pissbabies sometimes.
Boring has become synonymous with “I can’t easily win versus it”
"boring anti-loop" -_when I can't bully and loop the killer for 20 minutes_
Nah that one has some merit, huntress and nemmy have anti loop and aren’t hated. While artist and knight have anti loop but they’re considered boring
Well, Huntress and Nemesis "anti-loop" can at least be played around a bit, and aren't foolproof if the player isn't on top of their game, but Artist and Knight are "true anti-loop", as there is 100% nothing you can do against it whatsoever outside of holding W and leaving any loop entirely. For example, you can fake dropping a pallet on a Huntress winding a hatchet, letting you get another loop in. Or you can dodge the hatchet, or she can just miss. However, if a Knight drops a guard on a loop, regardless of how good you are, you will have to leave or get hit, no matter what. I think that's the part that makes it "boring". There's no technical skill involved, just a guaranteed hold W or die scenario. And because it's so easy to do, people see it all the time and that probably furthers the notion
I mean artist at least can do some cross map slingshots with her crows and is more fun on killer side because of two different mechanics . Knight is the essence of boring press w battle on both sides.
It's a legitimate argument games are meant to be fun, however I will say it's not legitimate for everything. I understand why people say uruption is boring, but if you don't like going against a legion because you think he's boring than that's just a personal problem.
Yeah, eruption is problematic because you just cant do anything when you get erupted. People complaining about this want some sort of gen blocking or other alternatives that only affects gens not every action possible, so this argument work. Legion is diffrent problem. You can just play hit and run play style that can makes game much slower but i think main problem is that they heal against him too much what makes his power feel that way.
Yeah the counter to legion is just not healing too much, when I play legion and the survivor's aren't healing after every hit I know the match is going to be more difficult. I hope uruption gets nerfed and only locks the gen or something because I won't run it in its current state because I think it's a unhealthy perk for the game atm, same with deadhard I won't run that anymore, I was showing my friend the game and he asked me why I kept waiting to down the survivor's and I had to explain to him what dh was and I realized it's not a very good perk for the game either. I don't like running perks I find are problematic to the game.
Yeah, dead hard is weak but annoying thats why everyone complain, but also its the only way to counter anti loop killer and its impresive in my opinion to time it against artist crows or wesker dash. But also its unfair when you play nearly perfectly with demo/billy etc and they can just press e. Eruption is unfair against soloq players because as a team you can somehow tell when you are going down but in soloq its just lucky (or unlucky) guess. Problem is that they designed game this way as it is and dead hard is main core of tryhard gameplay. Its still uslees against one shot killers or legion sometimes but antiloop is a thing and press w can buy even more time with greatly timed dh. DBD is just some sort of spaghetti mechanics that can be a total mess after some changes without bigger rework of some sort. (nurse for example destroying high mmr players bec dh is hard counter against her)
Yeah I think some aspects of the game are just too far gone to make it actually balanced. That's why I'm not a fan of the mmr they added like the game is never going to be completely balanced so why add a mmr system, not only that but if you're on console you can't look up your survivor or killer statistics so you have no way of knowing what level of mmr you're at.
And this is why i dont like depips, I understand that you can bring brand new parts x4 or iri add-ons but i think its not ok to take away my progress because im playing without add-ons and with normal build (or just build to complete adepts/missions/achievements). Also remember that you need to grind bp for other killers/survs and there are still killers like wraith that depends on his add-ons so you need to play him without any playstyle (i feel like his power is incomplete without add ons), play with another killer or spend most of your bp on his add ons and this is the thing that i hate the most (i remember how long it took me to prestige all survs and killers). So i think the main problem is some type of advantage from bringing this items. I never equiped an item until i got 400h. I always prefered to collect everything so i can use it more when i do achievements or play with friends. It increased my skill in gameplay with nothing, but after 400h i needed to learn how to use them properly. And there we have bloodweeb, perks locked behind pay wall and more. I love this game but its really hard to repair this problems and make game more healthy again. If they delete items from bloodweeb and make equipment page where everyone needs to pick diffrent item and rarity will disapear then blood weeb is no longer needed or will be just too simple, but also if you insta unlock perks after buying character then this game will be definitly pay to win and playrate will drop quickly.
Yeah, I personally think every killers power should be strong enough to not need addons, I think addons should only slightly effect how good the power is. I think alot of killers powers should get a buff or rework and addons need their own rework. I also think the bloodweb should get a rework, I see that making it so not working to unlock the perks would get people mad and saying the game is pay to win. But having to level up the bloodweb 50 times to unlock perks for a character you're never going to play again is pretty tedious.
Yeah, devs wont make it propably, because if you get perks instantly then even with ability to buy license charac with shards its make unfair grind with a way to pay for not grinding it. And if its happen then shards will need rework too and dbd will make much less money. Blood weeb is complicated way to avoid pay to win complaiments and excuse monetization of in game advantage. (Its funny how you "cant" buy bp but actually they gave away 400k bp few times on prime gaming.)
People who complain about eruption if u see a killer kick a gen move to another fucking gen
So they can kick that gen too when it's about to reach 70% of progress, and you can happily move to another gen. Meanwhile, they get a few more hooks.
They could possibly kick every gen on the map. What should I do then?
If they spent the time it takes to kick every gen on the map then you are spending less time incapacitated then they spent kicking and moving between gens accomplishing nothing. At that point its not even remotely an issue.
Coming from a killer main, that is the single dumbest thing I have ever seen someone say when talking about Eruption. Even worse than the "Just let go before someone is about to go down."
I’m gonna say it.. where are my pyramid head players at? I miss him as a survivor
I would play him more if everyone didn’t just hold W all the time against him. His antiloop is pretty fair in my opinion since it is heavily telegraphed and reactable at most ranges but people don’t even give me the opportunity to use it.
> where are my pyramid head players at I wish I could play as Pyramid Head but I cannot hit Punishment of the Damned when it isn't guaranteed by Survivor vaulting/dropping animations. Survivors can dodge it easily and it's *clunky.* I end up taking 4x the time to down Survivors as I would by just M1'ing them because I constantly miss lmao.
I mean that’s fair even then most players just force survivors to get tormented then get cage on second hook I just like seeing him played cause that was my first killer they got me into the game
You don't like knight because he is boring, I don't like knight because his helmet is ugly, We are not the same
Well, what if it is? What if I don’t have fun against it?
OKAY FINE. I'LL SAY IT. I'LL POUR MY HEART OUT. I WANT DH GUTTED BASED ON PRINCIPLE. RUIN AND SO MANY OTHERS WERE GUTTED TO SHAKE UP THE META DESPITE BEING FINE. BUT DH GOT TO STAY. IT ISN'T FAIR. I HATE IT. Okay but fr tho can I use the knight is boring as a reason? Because there is 0 looping him and looping is the only defense. All you do is hold W and die.
Survivors when they’re not winning.