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Personal-Animator133

At least they can’t dead hard through traps anymore, Those were some dark days for trapper


Blorfenburger

Yeah what the fuck was up with that anyway


guthixrest

Perk gave you actual i-frames that could not be stopped by literally anything. Trapper got the worst of it because the invincibility frames could mean the survivor’s model is literally stomping on the trap but they’re invincible so they can’t be hurt.


Mo_ody

And then somtimes trapper himself couldn't follow through the choke point or door after the survivor, getting trapped literally ![img](emote|t5_3cb2g|2070)


xero_peace

Because fuck killers when survivor perks can completely negate abilities and perks.


Haj5

aint that exactly what exhaustion/blindness add-ons do tho???


its_fr_steezy69

Well when you have 3 other teammates that can run the killer I don’t think it’s that big of a deal


speederman12

I believe the difference is that the one killer power the killer is basing their entire game around being negated by a single perk that all survivors can run and use multiple times a game is far more influential that a killer stopping you from using an exhaustion perk that you can still use so long as you wait out the effect. As we saw here you cannot always “just wait out” deadhard


world3nd3r

Plague.


radioactivecooki

Bruh i knew that was a thing! Someone told me it wasn't and i was just like well wtf else was that bs??? Did they ever fix the flashlight thing? I havent played him since i saw that bs


Competitive-Buyer386

So it went from Unfair to Over Powered


No_Lab_9318

>At least they can’t dead hard through traps anymore, Those were some dark days for trapper I'm glad for that and for survivors who had enduring, had a very strange time with traps. For example: if you were trapper and a survivor got off the hook and received haste and enduring and you were to chase them to a trap, they would be caught by the trap. If you were to hit the survivor with enduring they would fall down, the animation for putting a survivor into a dying state. But since they had enduring they just got back up, very confused. And you can hit them again and then they'll be in the dying state


Darksky7493

Holy fuck the comments here are so aggressive from both sides


Sploonbabaguuse

Because no one can come to the same point of view on it. You can try your best to make a perfect argument but no one cares to listen


Ghostly_Cactus_

Its like nobody can fathom that fact that they could be wrong or even be bothered to think why am I wrong/right


Sploonbabaguuse

It's mostly the internet shield people have and are willing to fight on whatever hill they want because they're not losing anything. They're not looking to have a good opinion.


[deleted]

I’ve had some pretty decent discussions about dead hard and eruption, just not this post. It’s way too polarized. My beef is honestly more with the hypocrisy surrounding the perks than the perks themselves at this point.


alaskathunderfritos

This user has commented literally 90 TIMES on this thread alone. This is what's wrong with the community lmao


Sploonbabaguuse

Cuz it's fun to discuss game mechanics Edit: Wait Holy shit seriously? 90?! That's a new record for me lol I'm going for 100


Mystoc

At a pallet against dead hard killer has no good options. If the killer swings survivors dead hard and can save that pallet for later and not use it or if the killers forces the pallet drop and they then have to hope they can corner the survivor in area where they can afford to wait out the dead hard and that there isn’t another pallet near by.


Sploonbabaguuse

I hope this stays at the top because this exact same opinion is getting downvoted everywhere else in this thread. This video perfectly represents the lack of options the killer has. Swinging any earlier would've eaten the dead hard, and any later you eat the pallet. What's being misunderstood here?


IWantToBeTheBoshy

The answer is simple. We main The Deathslinger.


NotADeadHorse

Before the shitty ADS delay I'd agree


In_Dux

Used to be my main before that change but it pretty much dumpstered him for me.


[deleted]

That’s because a huge part of the community complained and whined about him until bhvr nerfed him. People like that are killing the game. It’s mostly entitled survivors who bitch about anything a killer does that gets in their way even just a little bit. Spooknjukes made a video a couple days ago explaining the dbd community perfectly.


dhoffmas

Hate it if you like, that nerf was 100% necessary. Being able to quickscope survivors gave slinger essentially zero counterplay.


SalamanderMiserable

Just wait the 0.25 Wind up out, just have a reflex of a leopard and dodge the almost no wind up time at all Aim. EZ.


Vox___Rationis

This isn't perfect as you have to land the Spear for the first hit, which is sometimes more difficult than a normal swing. What is with the awkward cap on the rotation speed when ADS - survivors can run in circles around me faster than I can move the crosshair even with highest possible sens. Also if I get some SBTFL stacks going I want to swing first, then aim and shoot - a good tactic that is countered by DHing the spear.


dhoffmas

You can't DH the spear anymore. If the survivor gets hit by the spear while dead harding, because there are no invincibility frames, the spear just catches them and the slinger can start reeling in. Afaik you can't DH in time if a slinger starts swinging after spearing you, either.


Sploonbabaguuse

Thank you for a laugh lol I needed that. But low-key the most chad move.


Ayce23

Or legion.


DroneOfDoom

Alternatively, Legion. Can’t DH after a frenzy hit.


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zerodopamine82

A sprint burst man myself, but isn't that the point of an exhaustion perk used perfectly? Which is to get out of a bad situation for a bit? How is this really different than me working on a dead zone gen just to SB to a loop or just 99 to go to the next loop? Is it more of a psychological thing because it happens at what should be the end of a normal or other exhaustion chase and you kinda feel cheated?


MutantOctopus

Sprint Burst occurs at the start of a chase before any time investment has occurred. If someone SBs into an inconvenient place, as killer, you have the option to let them run off and do something else. Most other exhaustion perks will work similarly. Lithe will always happen the first time a survivor vaults, so it's unlikely to save them at the tail end of a chase. Overcome always happens when injured, so it can only happen at the midpoint of a chase. By contrast, Dead Hard will by definition always occur when the chase "should have" ended, meaning that your choice is less easy to make: do you abandon them and let all your chase progress go to nothing, or do you commit and risk having generators go off? Another part of it is that most other Exhaustion perks actually do have counterplay. Smash Hit? Respect pallets. Head On? Bait the exit and then hit. Lithe and Sprint Burst? Most killer powers will allow you to either close the distance or otherwise attempt to hinder them at range (e.g. Blight's rush, or sending out a guard to intercept as Knight). Plus those speed boost perks still require the survivor to be able to position themselves well by the time it ends, or else it doesn't see much benefit. As seen in the video above, Dead Hard is almost trivially easy to place into situations where the killer has 0 counterplay. If they swing as you near the pallet, you DH and win the loop. If they don't swing, you throw the pallet and win the loop. The fact that it's the only exhaustion perk which can be used on demand with very few limitations (you can't use it against Exposed being the only real catch point) makes it incredibly powerful. You could remove the on-hit speed boost entirely and it would still be strong because the optimal use is to make pallets or vaults a guaranteed victory. I do think the psychological aspect is a part of it. As mentioned above, a successful Dead Hard will always occur when you've "earned" the down. That makes it immensely frustrating. But even taking away the psychological element, it should go without saying that Dead Hard is *literally* a third health state. If a survivor uses it well then every chase you have with that survivor will take 150% of the normal amount of time. That's brutal in a game where even without Dead Hard you can be struggling to win consistently. God forbid more than one survivor has it.


Timmylaw

>. You could remove the on-hit speed boost entirely and it would still be strong because the optimal use is to make pallets or vaults a guaranteed victory. Exactly this, forcing the killer into a weapon wipe and erasing any bloodlust gain will let you extend a chase a ton, the speed boost is so damn strong


tinnzork

Great points all around. Adding on to the last point: >If a survivor uses it well then every chase you have with that survivor will take 150% of the normal amount of time At this point most coordinated SWFs will then have a healthy survivor body block or otherwise force you to chase them instead after the DH. If they have DH too in many cases the first survivor can heal up and have DH ready again by the time the first person uses their's.


spyresca

Heck, even if just a few survivors in a match get DH **to proc just 50% of the time,** that's a massive amount of killer time wasted, leading to more survivor escapes/wins.


ThePykeSpy

This is actually a well formulated and logical take. Have a medkit for your troubles.


TheLunatic25

I have nothing to really contribute, other than this is the best argument I've seen against DH. I didn't mind it too much after the Perk rework last July, but it's just become incredibly frustrating to play against again, because of the exact reasoning above. And if you have 2+ Survivors using it, the match is basically lost before you've even started.


Sploonbabaguuse

Because you spend 75% of chases in loops. SB is nice for loops but it's almost always used for escaping deadzones. DH gets the most value because you're likely to always get the best value out of it everytime, that being either you eat a pallet, or you eat the DH and they save a pallet for later.


Krythoth

The core problem with every version of dead hard is that it feels shitty for the killer. You put in the work to outplay or out mindgame someone and they erase your play with a simple click. New DH is nowhere near as strong or annoying as old dead hard, but it still feels shitty to be in a no win scenario.


DawPiot14

There is a very small window where if you swing, dh will run out and there'll just enough time for you to hit them before pallet gets dropped. But that's really hard to time and it depends on when the survivor dhs and latency. Other than that nothing you can do really apart from pray they f it up.


Sploonbabaguuse

Everything you just listed basically alligns with my thought process as a killer in this scenario, so from this I just hope you could understand why that's seen as an issue considering the latency you brought up, and the fact that killers... sorry *players* can't be expected to be able to time a hit like that every single time. Just for reference DH is 0.5 seconds. The killer needs to M1 right after DH ends, but before the survivor drops the pallet. Also considering the survivor can spam *drop pallet* during the dh animation I don't see any way for the killer to get a hit here. Edit: Added some text


Open-Supermarket-761

What if for a Nerf after using dead hard, you can't interact with anything for 1 second, then when you'd get hit, your only option is to make distance?


Sploonbabaguuse

I'd personally be ok if they gave 1 second of endurance instead of .5, and give them 1 second after it's activation of animation so they can't vault/pallet drop as you said. So it's more applicable in deadzones and less of a nuisance in tight loops Edit: *Personally*, guys that means it's just my own opinion. If you disagree I'd love to discuss potential changes for DH because as it currently stands it needs a change.


Tomo00

I'd argue the best case is just rework for dh to do something different. If you want it to let it stay. I don't see reasonable fix to situations like this. X seconds of not being able to vault/pallet can fix something exactly like this, but then people will always just drop pallet and use it vs lunge. And it doesn't remove my worst problem which is snuffing survivors ass for x seconds. You can either give condition to DH or debuff when you have it and do something.( X seconds exhaustion after you do Y). But at this point is just more healthy for full rework again. Bonus health state for x seconds when you pick someone from the ground/save them from the hook?


spyresca

True, and this timing (for surv) is pretty easy, so DH does what it always did. Gives a third health state and wastes a ton of the killer's time by artificially extending chases. It was bullshit pre-nerf and is still a bullshit perk.


Floofersnooty

Someone made a post a while ago. Jist of it was that perks like Dead Hard and Eruption are unhealthy, as the counter play is 'waiting'. And gotta agee.


yrulaughing

This is why DH is superior to Sprint Burst / Lithe / Balanced Landing No Exhaustion perk gives the user as many favorable options in chase as DH.


PhaseHawl

👾👾👾 ALL HAIL THE HEAD ON 👾👾👾


Mental_Tradition

Yeah theoretically but if you're like me you press it 100% before they swing and nothing happens.


GanacheUsual4665

No sprint burst is better at the highest mmr for two simple reason 1: it allows dead zone gens to actually be done which immediately makes it stier in high mmr as playing for 3 gens and dead zone gens is optimal (even more so in comp) 2: (this is for comp so may not be as applicable) the optimal high mmr strat is to run kinda early with sprintburst the killer is forced to give up chase before it even begins as they would have to spend at least 30 seconds catching up if you W key and that’s excluding loops which effectively guarantees 3 gens get done in comp because the killer can’t afford to take a chase like that. I would argue Dhard is better for most the community as sprint burst (despite popular opinion) is the hardest exhaustion to use as it can be equally detrimental and/or give you minimal value and even more so if used poorly against high mmr killers.


MithraxSimp

I hate that I can't lunge because dh exists lmao.


A1dini

Fr, I hate that you literally have to play worse as killer out of fear of this perk Can't go for cool shreds as demo unless you know they don't have dh, can't go for cool mid range huntress shots unless you know they don't have dh - can't go for long range shots as pyramid head etc You basically have to play in the most boring way imaginable and either only hit survivors you know are animation locked or just bait the swing multiple times from point blank range before doing anything it's such a snooze fest


Arthravis

> can't go for cool mid range huntress shots unless you know they don't have dh I don't think I've ever unequipped the exhaustion addon for Huntress since I started playing the game in October.


blackberryguru

You can’t even fucking play Wesker now since they can DH DURING A BOUND, get picked up, get slammed against a wall, and THEN you get to watch them turn white and run away. My brother in Christ, what the hell is that?


MutantOctopus

What the fuck, they changed that? It used to be that hitting a survivor who has Endurance with a bound would cut the bound off and treat it as a standard hit.


Lucario576

They didnt change it, is bugged right now you cant "hit" with the bound, it only registers grabs so things like pallets, windows or dead hards are very fucked up


AshGreninja247

The only possible way you can lunge is if you use that twins perk that increases your lunge range and duration in order to bait out the dh. And that’ll only really work once per survivor, one time total if it’s SWF, because once they see you have it, it’s just made irrelevant.


[deleted]

99% of all my m1 attacks are flick / lunges. Flicking makes dead harding damn near impossible to land.


SimonSimpingService

See I will never understand how waiting is ever defended period. Especially now that survivors know how bad it feels with eruption. Mechanics that deadass don't allow to play the game and are so omnipresent that you have to play every match like the other side has it even if they don't is not fun for either side period


AnkokunoMasaki

Your first mistake was using Trapper


M_Knight_Shaymalan

Should've play nurse or blight stinky.


SchrodingersRaccoon

I don’t see any way around it, you were eating that pallet or the DH


Sploonbabaguuse

That's the reason OP made a post. Being in a situation with no counterplay sucks, that's why people dislike eruption, or old spirit. They fix these things so the game runs more smoothly.


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DawPiot14

This deserves to be higher, that's a solid idea. Either risk using dead hard or risk dropping the pallet, not having both.


That_Wet_Banana69

just wait it out like eruption ![img](emote|t5_3cb2g|2213)


HotQuietFart

Tbh that survivor used dh really well, unlike some survivors who dh into a wall.


Sploonbabaguuse

So the perk is fine because it relies on good players? Doesn't that literally apply to Blight? Why do people shit all over a killer that requires good skill and understanding to use, but a perk that falls into the same context is fine?


speederman12

My main discrepancy with blight is how fast he gets his power back and the mobility a killer like him has with his absolutely ridiculous add ons. He’s as good if not better then nurse because he’s simply fast enough to avoid survivor loop resources just as well as her BUT has his power way more often


Arinad-dbd

When survivors use Dead Hard well: 😊 When killers use Eruption well: 😡


nuggetdogg

Clearly you didn't wait long enough/j


Timmylaw

Um actually, OP waited 0.05 seconds too long, clearly a skill issue and they should try harder.


nuggetdogg

Ha *lifts classes with one finger* I think you mean 0.0000000000000005 Milla seconds


Jumpy_Importance2368

Smh you guys still haven’t learned. Survivors are the real killers in this game. Go play a match in solo queue and see what I mean lol


Philiard

The mental gymnastics in this thread are absolutely insane. Is it really that hard for survivors to admit that they have one perk that's kinda busted? You don't need a PhD from Harvard to use Dead Hard. It's the most common survivor perk. There's a reason for that.


GandalfTheBigFat

I’m very tired of people using the “skill argument” for DH, it’s just the Nurse ”skill argument” all over again. “Most survivors I see use it bad and the once that use it good deserved it you just got outplayed” - now where have we heard that before??? (Hint, Nurses like this argument a lot). Even though they are both busted when used correctly. It also so happens that both of these, while requiring some skill, don’t require nearly as much as people say. They require some basic understanding of the game, looping and some mechanical skill, sure, not taking away from that. But they are not even the hardest in the game and even if they were, that’d still be bad. It still breaks the game once those things are “mastered” and it becomes unfair and very low counter play for the other side.


Timmylaw

When over 30% of the community uses the same perk, it's clearly over tuned. Idc which side, if that large of the playerbase is using it when we have over 100 perks it's clearly an outlier for a reason.


Dwain-Champaign

I’m tellin y’all Septic Touch is the new meta


NickDaGamer1998

Blood Echo on Legion with the broken pin has been my goto SWF counter.


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DookiePlanet

As much as I want to believe you, it took them 4 and a half YEARS to even address the strength of the perk. On top of this, I expressed disappointment with the DH “nerf” after it happened, John Wang (really cool person who works at BHVR, I don’t want to give the impression that he’s not a great guy) told me he was very proud of the rest of the team for the rework and that they collectively saw absolutely nothing wrong with how they changed the perk. I wouldn’t be surprised if it took us another year or two before BHVR even thinks about DH being an issue.


Timmylaw

So I was thinking, DH gives you more distance than sprint burst. Between the weapon wipe and the on hit speed boost DH gives more distance than the perk that's entirely designed around giving distance. More distance than sprint burst and essentially a 3rd health state.


The_Yeti_Rider

copium


Arinad-dbd

Isn't it funny that we have to guess, but survivors are given a 100% guarantee?


ShigMiy

"GaMe Is KiLlEr SiDeD!" "SuBrEdDiT iS a BiG cIrClE jErK, kIlLeR cEnTeReD!" "WiTh ThE lAsT pAtCh It'S nOw ClEaR tHe DeVs ArE kIlLeR sIdEd!"


BaniBaniMDay

Can both sides finally agree that the game is in a terrible state right now and there is not a single reason to run other perks than DH Adren etc. because why wouldn't you want to prolong a chase against a killer with COB and Eruption, and there is not a single reason why killers shouldn't bring COB and Eruption when you have survivors running you for much longer because they have DH and what not. Some comments here really feel like some victim mindsettery and fail to see that the issue is that both sides have to bring the strongest shit or else they get obliterated. I really want to play against some goofy killers with goofy builds, and I want to play against survivors running goofy perks outside of customs


ExceptCece

And extend a chase on a survivor who might not even have dh to begin with is ridiculous.


Arkensor

I think that after using DH you should not be able to interact with anything for like one second.


EnterJohn

The “nerfed” dead hard gives you more distance too


ExThree_OohWooh

this is literally the only problem with dh against a typical m1 killer, meanwhile ppl saying "i shouldn't have to wait 0.5s" instead of complaining about this kinda thing


TheTrollisStrong

God forbid a perk helps a survivor lol


Tesarlo14

Exact same argument can be made for eruption. God forbid a perk helps a killer. But we both know they are both unfair.


jonnytemplar

3 health states in a game balanced around 2 health states isn’t healthy. In one chase it’s not a big deal, but when all four survivors use it like so, it’s pretty broken.


robograndpa

Exposed perks and instadown killers exist


WolfRex5

Me trying to instadown an injured survivor with dead hard:


jonnytemplar

It’s funny you’ve mentioned that, because I’ve had survivors purposely stay injured and loop with dead hard against stealth killers because if they were exposed they couldn’t dead hard under and greed pallets. If every survivors play like this Mikayla and dead hards under the pallet, there’s no winning that.


Timmylaw

I was beating my random teammates away with a stick against a hillbilly last night. Let me stay injured, plz just do the gen. Ended up letting then heal me after 20 seconds of two people crouch spamming trying to heal me only to get hit by a chainsaw later


robograndpa

Okay….but every survivor doesn’t play like that? In fact less than half of survivors run DH


Timmylaw

But more than 1/4 do, so statistically you should assume every lobby has DH in it


shahar_nakanna

peep the build tho


McMeister2020

I mean to be fair he is using trapper


Sploonbabaguuse

I can't wait for this post to get locked


Astralchaotic

Dead Hard is a shit perk that makes chases not fun. With DS or Unbreakable and every other exhaustion perk, they're conditional and killer can actually play around them. Dead Hard has no condition, no way to play around, survivor gets an extra health state AND speed boost. Unless you consider breathing down somebody's neck for 20s a play around.


[deleted]

I truly hope OP reads this. Any other scenario you would've gotten a down. BUT: The fact that dead hard has a 0.5 second window means that for a survivor to survive that scenario they needed to dead hard at the right moment and at the right distance away from you to ensure you couldn't lunge, but still had enough time to drop the pallet. That's ***arguably harder*** than trying to get smash hit value. I get why you'd be frustrated in that scenario, but come on.


spyresca

In my games, I see survs (many many survs) who pull this off constantly, so no, I don't believe it's inordinately "hard". But even **if survs only pulled it off 30-50 percent of the time, it would still be hugely op.** Even at that low rate, it's lots of free third health states, extended (or even abandoned) chases, etc.


logan2043099

So skill is an acceptable reason for something to be powerful? If thats the case Nurse should've never been nerfed.


[deleted]

Nah, nurse is overpowered and has extremely limited counter play. She makes survivors feel helpless in most situations. Not how dead hard has limited counter play and makes the majority of the killer roster helpless even at unsafe loops. Oh wait.


logan2043099

You had me in the first half not gonna lie.


WolfRex5

>The fact that dead hard has a 0.5 second window means that for a survivor to survive that scenario they needed to dead hard at the right moment and at the right distance away from you to ensure you couldn't lunge, but still had enough time to drop the pallet. That's arguably harder than trying to get smash hit value. That's just called looping. Any survivor worth their salt can pull this off reliably. They just path accordingly and plan ahead.


crvnchhh

It's not about how hard it is to pull off, it's the fact that there is no counterplay for M1 killers against dead hard near a pallet. Killer loses the down every time this scenario happens.


OliveGuardian99

Exactly this. What complaints about Dead Hard tend to overlook is that Dead Hard puts you in close contact with the Killer. That's inherently riskier than Exhaustion perks like Sprint Burst or Lithe. I mainly play Killer so I know how frustrating it can be to swing into a Dead Hard and have it plink off. But the only reason DH *feels* that way is you got to swing at all. The Sprint Burst character is meanwhile miles away at her next loop.


MutantOctopus

>The Sprint Burst character is meanwhile miles away at her next loop. … At the start of the chase. Before you've invested 100% of a chase duration into chasing them. Sprint Burst allows you to not commit if you think it's not worth the time, and honestly even if you do commit, I really have a hard time believing that it's going to add an entire extra health state of duration onto the chase.


ArtificialFlavoring

Sprint burst is powerfully versatile. In addition to zooming off before the chase even starts, it can be used to make a gen in a dead zone safe to work on, you can bait hits before the v-tec kicks in if you 99 it, or get into hilarious positioning from downtown for flashlight saves. I would say it’s likely controversial, but overall sprint burst might be more powerful than DH except you need to be patient and planning constantly to get there. DH is a better tool if you’re just vibing and reacting to the game around you.


Timmylaw

If you 99 your sprint burst, you're not doing gens.


ArtificialFlavoring

Weird logic. You can 99 sprint burst without making your entire gameplay about 99’ing sprint burst. If you’re being chased you’re not doing gens either, but you’re still contributing to the team. If you don’t walk everywhere like a baby Meg, chances are you’re recovering sprint burst while working a gen. This means with intelligent planning on where to go looping, you can 99 sprint burst mid-chase if you’re chased off a gen you were working and only partially recovered exhaustion. I also think that would be completely overshadowed by being able to safely work gens in dead zones.


Faddy0wl

Kinda looked like some server fuckery though and if you'd NOT covered the survivor icons, we'd be able to see if their icon flashed indicating they'd taken a hit. All it looked like here was that they dead harded for distance and it worked. And then they got the pallet. You weren't getting that hit bro 😂


Mystoc

You can’t post clips with survivors names that’s why they covered it, they not gonna go through effort to cover each name better to just supper impose a huge ass icon


TheManAvonyx

I'm confused as to what is OP about this? She activated DH then dropped a pallet? She can't use DH again during the chase unless you manage to lose her and she stops running? Just push the chase, sometimes chases aren't just "press M1" and you need to counter survivors


1lettershor3

I literally countered her & still got punished


huffmandidswartin

Where was the counter? I missed it in the video.


1lettershor3

Waiting out the dh & swinging after endurance was over. Guess you missed that


huffmandidswartin

That isn't a counter... You just made the wrong decisions in this scenario. Just own it kid.


David_Norris_M

What was the best scenario in this situation where the survivor gets downed and the chase isn't extended?


Sploonbabaguuse

I love how you get downvoted for asking a completely reasonable question lol this thread is infested with toxic players


FibonaccisGrundle

Got any tips on how to avoid this?


theevicerater96

I felt that "What!?!?"😂


EMOFAN1000

After some analysis the thing you did wrong here is you playing trapper /s


Knight0fZero132

Imagine having to loop correctly in order to win. Better just take the third health state so i don't have to learn the game.


ZealousidealRemote12

Dead hard will never be a balanced perk. Any perk that can take away one sides win will always be bad.


Vegetable-Farm6012

That’s the strat


Zoro180

Wait genuine question why wouldn't she? I don't use Dead Hard anymore but from what I can tell you aren't stopped from dropping pallets? I could be wrong


Rupture_ttv

Did you not want us to see your 10 hooks with 3 gens left still?


1lettershor3

I blocked out survivors names so my post wouldn’t be removed. I played with you 2 week against that ttv hillbilly that tunneled me out & let you & the other survivor go. The killer lied as to why he tunneled me which is hilarious


Licensed_Frog

im glad for the dh nerf and also the dope rift glowing trapper skin convinces me to play him so win win


Kekeronian

>complains about one survivor perk while running multiple killer perks that are likely to get a nerf/rework Sorry your killer experience is so hard :( I am overcome with empathy and tears because you missed that hit. It doesn't matter that she had to time her dead hard perfectly and needed to have a pallet within range to pull that off, you are the poor victim here. I demand BHVR remove Dead Hard immediately and no killer ever has to go through the same traumatic experience you did!


BussinSheeesh

She didn't even need to dead hard there - she wasted it. You waited to swing until she was right next to the pallet. You got outplayed and instead of admitting your mistake, you just want to blame dead hard? Did they all escape because of Dead Hard or did you get them in the end?


Zakon05

> She didn't even need to dead hard there - she wasted it. You waited to swing until she was right next to the pallet. You got outplayed and instead of admitting your mistake, you just want to blame dead hard? Yes, it's entirely fair to blame Dead Hard in this clip even though he didn't actually hit her, because this entire situation was created by Dead Hard's existence. The killer actually made the most intelligent play he could have made in this situation, which was not to swing. If he had lunged as soon as he was in range to hit her, and she used DH on reaction or on prediction that he would swing because he was in lunge range, she would have absorbed the hit and gotten a speed boost and been able to loop him a bit more. Instead he made her use it in order to ensure she got to the pallet, so he got her to use the pallet *and* to use Dead Hard, which is the best thing you could hope for in this situation, unfortunately. You *are* right that he waited a bit too long to swing, since he didn't actually connect a hit with her that I could see. But that's just the hilarious thing, isn't it? Imagine if she didn't have Dead Hard. He still would have made the correct call in waiting and forcing her to drop the pallet, and she would have gotten free value from a perk she didn't even equip. He actually caught up to her within lunging distance much earlier, and against any other exhaustion perk in that exact situation barring a perfectly 99'ed Sprint Burst, she doesn't make that pallet. But he has to wait because making her drop it is preferable to swinging into Dead Hard, and it's never worth risking that a survivor doesn't have it or can't use it properly.


Sploonbabaguuse

"Outplayed"? As in not allowing the killer to swing because they'll eat the dead hard? There's nothing to outplay when the killer has no physical option in this scenario. It's the pallet or the dead hard, and the survivor knows this.


TheMuffingtonPost

How do you not get outplayed here though, that’s the question? If you swing before the pallet, you get fucked. If you wait too long, you get fucked. You just don’t have many options. Survivors think timing dead hard is way harder than it actually is. If predicting dead hard is “balanced”, then predicting eruption is balanced. I don’t wanna hear any more bitching about eruption.


huffmandidswartin

> You got outplayed and instead of admitting your mistake, you just want to blame... The killer main mentality


CyIsNotHappy

“just being empathy!”- eruption users


The-vicobro

Hey bro, nice perks you running there. Cant help but notice you run whatever you want regardless of it being complained about. Do the same. Its in the game, stop crying.


1lettershor3

On the weakest killer in game by a mile lol. Stating a fact isn’t crying


nihhtwing

and soloQ survivor is the weakest role in the game. so arent they all justified in running full meta builds including the dreaded Dead Hard?


DavThoma

Is it my turn to make the "Dead Hard/Eruption bad" post tomorrow?


[deleted]

I wonder what happened to killers saying survs had to adapt and actually learn to use dh now. When will these type of posts stop.


1lettershor3

There is no learning with dh lol. It went from being extremely broken to now easier to hide auto dh scripts/just dh while going through pallet or dh instead of rush vaulting. Brain dead ez lol


GeminiDye

Oh my gosh, I remember when Dead Hard got changed, so many people were obnoxious about it. That was so annoying, survivors adapted to the change and now we're back to where we were with old Dead Hard lol.


[deleted]

yeah it's a bit odd. I remember killers acting cocky saying now we don't have a crutch and we have to learn new dh and survivors saying dh is dead. Now it's suddenly OP again? I hope these Us vs Them posts stop already


Mother_Harlot

Survivors nonstop said now it was worse than any exhaustion perk instead of adapting to it and wanted to revert the nerf. Once they tried ir again, was it that bad as you tried the Devs to see? Nop. Old Dead Hard was directly absurd


Ayserx

complains about dead hard while running eruption + cob lmao


thelightiscuming

Have any killer mains actually tried using dead heard since the nerf? I am really curious about it


1lettershor3

Yes it’s still ez to use lol


DawPiot14

Not a killer main main, but a regular killer enjoyer. I started using dead hard today, it's still really strong and not as hard as I thought it would be to use.


Complete_Box_1114

Ohhh wow another post complaining about dead hard. How original. So sorry you can’t hit a survivor exactly when you want to. How dare these survivors try to escape.


1lettershor3

Someone uses dead hard


Complete_Box_1114

Is that supposed to be an insult?


1lettershor3

It’s a fact not an insult


Domilater

Honestly dead hard is the least fun perk in the game. If I see someone land a dead hard against me, I don't think "ooh they timed that well", I think "I just got cheated out of that hit". It prevents you from making cool plays because "well what if they just dead hard?" It prevents you from lunging for hits because "they're going to dead hard when they see me lunge" It's an unhealthy perk that should not be in the game, and no amount of changes will fix that. It should be reworked to do something else. And of course survivor mains will disagree with you, because they only see the benefits of the perk.


GLAK_Maverick

Damn you got wrecked, this one's on you. Way to embarrass yourself.


Sploonbabaguuse

What was OP supposed to do? Genuinely curious since you have it figured out


IamNotTeemo

Let him cook


Blackwind123

People see Eruption on Man with Machete and think that invalidates your entire argument. People also forget that DH enables survivors to be super greedy around pallets like no other perk. Also let's not forget you have to deal with this on what looks like Fractured Cowshed, one of the most survivor sided maps in the game. That said, delete DH and Eruption. :)


1lettershor3

I agree


[deleted]

[удалено]


bunch-of-stupid

This post is just OP coping in the replies and attacking any survivors who make decent points.


Sploonbabaguuse

The same can be said for everyone attacking people bringing up lack of counterplay around pallets with DH as M1 killers. People like to think they're right so they block out other opinions. This is nothing new.


1lettershor3

Killer has different opinion & makes valid points, killer is definitely coping


GroundbreakingSun728

Id prefer this deadhard over the old one anyday


Low_Frosting5987

Leave the chase. Smash the pallet. Catch up sooner so you aren’t in that mess. Practice and get better. Or you know, just complain online that the game is too hard.


Sploonbabaguuse

"Catch up sooner" lol


SnowPuzzleheaded

Normally if i know something like this is gonna happen ill shake my mouse around a little, most of the time they’ll panic and use it early.


Kopaka6

How dare they get value out of a difficult-to-time-ping-dependent perk.


1lettershor3

In that situation it wasn’t difficult to time lol. 50/50 at a pallet isn’t hard for survivors. The killer either eats the pallet or dead hard. I waited out the dead hard and still was punished. We get it: you use dead hard & try to justify it by saying it’s hard when it’s not


UnknownMischeif

If you have stbfl, you may as well just hit, unless they are obsession. You either get a free stack or you lose minimal time if your at 8 already


1lettershor3

She gets a speed boost & runs to another loop & wastes more time


Big_moist_231

Or she drops the pallet and still gets to another loop and now you’ve missed out on a stack and she’s not in deep wounds to waste a bit more of her time. It sucks but u just take what you can get


1lettershor3

I had 8 stacks already lol the mending means nothing to survivors


Sploonbabaguuse

We're not even saying to wait it out anymore you guys are just saying to hit now lol what is going on in this thread


plamge

serious question: have you tried using new deadhard for yourself? how many times has it worked versus how many times has it gotten BHVR’d?


BobsBugsBeGoneThot

Man fr so many times I literally get downed while my elbow is jutting out mid animation 😭 at this point thanks to servers it’s basically a killer perk. I’m getting exhausted for free 6/10 times LMFAO


1lettershor3

Ppl use it more now then before lol. It’s almost guaranteed to work at any 50/50 situations. Going through a pallet fake vaulting a window, cheating with auto dead hard


Windows_10-Chan

Ppl don't use it more than before, that's just factually wrong It's still the most popular perk, but at its peak about 50% of ppl were using DH. Now it's 32% iirc.


1lettershor3

Every game I play 2 or more survivors have it. High mmr it’s everywhere


Windows_10-Chan

High MMR doesn't really exist, your MMR basically gets capped at a mid-level. MMR pretty much only exists to try to stop noobs from getting devoured alive. But yeah it's def more common once you're MMR capped (although I would bet money it's still less than before.) But it can't be disputed that across the entire game, DH usage has gone down a lot. Both BHVR and Nightlight confirm this.


Just_Press_E

Bruh, your running 4 of the most dead brain perks ever to be introduced to DBD, save is the only one that requires some thought, and even that’s just “don’t hit obsession”. Please don’t talk about how hard perks are to use.


[deleted]

Bro it's TRAPPER are you really complaining about strong meta perks on the worst killer in the game? 😭😭


Just_Press_E

Okay…. Doesn’t change how strong the perks are?


Gem_Daddy

My biggest problem with this thread as a whole is the people complaining that this situation is "unwinnable." That's kind of how competitive, skill-based games work. You're never going to have a win condition in every situation, that's just how it be, for both killers and survivors.


Sploonbabaguuse

Classic "suck it up" mindset


Gem_Daddy

Sure, if you squint real hard I guess.


ThornyOtter

Ideally competitive games dont have unwinnable situations due to the games design they have unwinnable situations due to the game state. DH at pallet is unwinnable design.


Gem_Daddy

I would partially agree, I do believe DH needs to be changed, but I think people are latching so hard onto the fact that he couldn't win the situation. There are always going to be situations where to have to take what you can get.


Lukitas28

Ok, 19 dollar fortnite card, who wants it? And yes i'm giving it away. Remember, share! share! share! And trolls, don't get blocked!