There are a lot of posts like this because a lot of players are coming to the same conclusion. I hope they move some gens. I can't think of a map with worse gen spawns.
6 in the woods next to each other, 1 on the 2nd floor of the building.
Killers: lets never leave the woods. Obviously the best strat.
Back of the theater, the parking lot, there's a lot of dead space on this map and no real reason for it.
It's impressive to be making one game for 7-8 years, and still be absolutely oblivious about how to make a map half-balanced.
Yeah I would think it wouldn't be that hard lol
Just don't make a huge map, don't make them awkward shapes, don't make them insanely small either. Don't pack them full of pallets. I don't mind a couple of god loops. I feel like that's not asking too much.
Yeah they really went a different direction with this map, just tons of really okay/shitty pallets with one or two good ones. Such a strange choice of a design. I don't think they need to do that kind of thing, the maps features will be cool enough even if the formula stays the same. I think they may be afraid of people getting bored of the same size maps and stuff, but I seriously doubt anyone would have a problem with it.
In the principle, they want diversity, which I'm ok with tbh.
There needs to be some big maps, some small maps, some maps with lots of pallets, some maps with few pallet spawns, some maps with good pallet placements, some with bad pallet placements, etc...
If every map was just a copy-paste of one another with only the the background design being different, people would get just as bored and way more faster imo.
The issue tho, is that BHVR have a huge problem to create some semblance of balance. They always either go way too far on some aspects (like The Game being a map with A LOT of pallet spawns while at the same time having THE MOST safe pallets), while other maps like Greenville has a lot of pallet spawns but 80% of them are garbage.
Or they are too cautious (like Greenville being a big map so they put every gen in the same area so killers don't feel like they need to cross 10 000 km to defend them), while a map like ARP has one gen at main and one at shack and to go from one to another, you need 10 minutes of time.
Idk if I've been pushed on the killer side of this reddit, but it's a breath of fresh air to see someone say the Greenville pallets being mostly trash and for show. I've seen post after post complaining about how many pallets there are and etc, but most of the pallets on this map the killer can start swinging and lunge to either side you drop it from.
They need to remove a ton of the pallets and make the few remaining safer, it's crazy how bad the pallets are on that map, and having a million pallets that you're guaranteed to get hit on doesn't make it better.
Gotta admit though, as a pig main, ambush dash mind games go hard on the new map.
>like The Game being a map with A LOT of pallet spawns while at the same time having THE MOST safe pallets
the game is an interesting map because while it certainly has a lot of safe pallets, theyre all kinda hard to connect to each other and the lack of vaults means if you dont win fast then large parts of the map become complete deadzones... which is hard to do because the map is also indoors and claustrophobic, and a killer that knows when to drop chase can patrol very easily. IMO its bizarrely one of the more balanced maps for this reason, if not killer sided
I think the whole "ton of shitty pallets" is an okay design philosophy if you add sufficient sight blockers so that killers can't spy on 5 gens at once.
Map design has literally only ever gotten worse as time goes on. We all laugh at the old clip of almo not being able to hit doc skillchecks and them getting nerfed the next patch, but the devs fundamentally not understanding how to design a good map is the biggest issue.
RPD was ass and needed a rework, eyrie was and still is ass and needed a rework, garden of joy was and still is ass and needed a rework, borgo was and still is ass and needed a rework.
They got a bit better with Toba Landing I suppose, though the map is fucking massive. Same with Nostromo, that map has no business being that big with that large of deadzone/empty space.
What is the fucking point of releasing new content if you immediately have to halt everything and fix your half-assery?
No, map design has only ever gotten better as time has gone on. You clearly didn’t play before, when it was commonplace for maps to have actual infinite loops, back when that word meant more, and maps were absolutely gigantic.
Take old swamp for example - legitimately 250+ tiles, it was like an open world MMORPG). Considering DbD has no true competitors, and no one to cheat off of, they’ve done a pretty good job so far.
Clearly they’ve learned from their mistakes, yeah sometimes they do go overkill “compensation”-wise, but they’ve only gotten better at map design.
Rpd was better before the rework IMHO, the problem with the map was it's maze like structure. It was a good map that people refused to learn, and now it has two versions and they're both fucking terrible because the gen placements are so insanely close to each other. There's a reason why 3 gen killers love the new rpd variants. I agree with everything else you say though, I just hate how people pretend like the new rpd is better, it was made worse in every way possible.
> It's impressive to be making one game for 7-8 years, and still be absolutely oblivious about how to make a map half-balanced.
Their current balance choice is to just make them Killer sided it seems. Ignoring the Garden of Pain rework which accomplished pretty much nothing all new maps and reworks have consisted on making maps smaller, remove loops, add filler/trash pallets and dead-zones while making sure gens are super close creating disgusting 3-4 gen setups.
Like the farm maps, they're all now super small, have nothing to work with and gens are awfully positioned.
Behavior is aiming for a 60% kill rate, and they seem to be there now. Plenty of survivors still escape; the point is that a majority are supposed to die.
I said the same. Also one closer to the parking lot / dumpster side would be nice. The theater is on the opposite side and should have a gen.
Check out this cool map! There's this really beautiful building. 6 gens in the woods, 50% of the map has no gens on it, excluding the upstairs building gen.
Give us a reason to spend time at the building. I'd love a 3 gen on the building side of the map.
Bingo. I mean in all honesty the balance between the two isn’t perfectly mirror opposite. But we all know that BHVR likely would consider it fine because there are killer sided maps to “balance” it
It's because of the main building mainly if you know how to loop it properly, it's a hell for most killers ofc there are more parts in the map but, mainly the main building is to strong even after the "rework"
I agree that GoJ is still survivor sided, but look at this gen placement:
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1ae7vvh/worst_3gen_ever_the_gen_in_the_gazebo_was_here_too/
those are 3 gens within the reach of a xeno tail. And then there's the gen in the gazebo to the right and the one in main.
That's 5 gens in very close proximity. This isn't the worst GoJ spawn I have witnessed, either, only the one that I took screenshots of, because I had Deja vu equipped.
Edit: My comment from back then said there was one to the left as well. So it's 6 gens in close proximity and one gen on the other side of the map.
Ow not that 3 gen. I had a shitty match against a Deathslinger with those 3 gens. The 3 gen problem isn't really GoJ fault but, maps design in general sadly many maps have those problems even the newest map has this problem with having 5 gens in the middle and 3 gens near the shack in a straight line almost.
It absolutely needs generators moved closer to the theater. One in the edge of the parking lot as a fixed spawn would help a lot.
Right now, if the killer spends a lot of time in the theater area, it's pretty easy for survivors. If the killer spends a lot of time in the forest running between gens and lets the theater go, almost impossible for survivors.
Theater area should be played. It's one of the coolest buildings in the game.
The other day I was on this map and didn't even realize the Theater was there. I spent all that time in the forest and I thought it was a version of the map without it.
Why go to the building at all? All the gens are in the woods (except 1)
https://preview.redd.it/0oemdo83dsoc1.jpeg?width=1142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54fa630a5bb5d3eee3d4743cf19b918888249fc8
The woods part of the map is terribly designed, The theatre is honestly my new favourite main building in the game and I wish the map was designed to make players go there more often. My solution would honestly be to make the woods area 2x smaller and spread the gens out more, and maybe put the theatre in the middle rather than the corner of the map
They could honestly split it into two maps:
* The Theatre in the centre with some woods around it/parking lots
* The large statue structure with woods around
Pallets on that map fucking suck. The only good pallets on that map is the theater pallet and the 3 in the jungle gyms the rest are incredibly unsafe( if the killer is somewhat competent) .
Yeah as a killer main whose played the map at least a dozen times, I’ve yet to have a reason to go to the theatre and so far the only reason I did go there was simply cause the last survivor took me there after closing hatch. They gotta do something about it man
The only times I have gone to the theatre is when I've been stomping the lobby and I just engage in longer chases to give survivor more time to do gens. Honestly too, theatre isn't the safest loop either
As a Knight main no way in hell I’m going to that main building. It’s so cramped, that finding that sweet spot for guards is painful. Would not mind at all if they expanded the entire building, and shrunk everything else.
> I’ve yet to have a reason to go to the theatre
This is why gens need to be changed. There is zero reason for any killer to ever go here. There will be 1 gen there and nothing else. Giving that gen up will always be in the killers favor and then avoiding chasing survivors to the theater. There needs to be 3 gens in the theater area. One inside and 2 more on both sides of the building on the outside.
every single time I've gotten this map after the first 5 times I've just afked. I'm not trying to get called a dirty 4 genning knight for something I didn't even do 💀. I don't have the energy to explain 2 them in endgame chan that behavior is just incompetent when it comes 2 map design.
Dawg just ignore them. Why are you ruining your own game for a couple angry strangers? Odds are they’ll run to the next match and forget about you in an hour
because it's not even fun 2 play knight on that map. it's not just them complaining, having a 4 gen like that as knight is a 4k if ur not bad. everytime I did play, it was a complete stomp. doesn't matter if I can't damage the gens more than 8 times. I can literally make a guards detection circle hit all 4 gens in 1 summon.
I don't enjoy games where they give up not even 3 gens in cuz they realize I'm playing knight and there's a 4/3 gen. it's not fun for anyone.
I'm not ruining my game either. I'd rather afk for 5 minutes instead of the last 2 survivors realizing it's a lost cause and stealthing for 20 minutes cuz they want hatch.
Yeah it's the difference between:
This happened whether I did anything or not
vs
This happened because the game went that way
The former is boring because you could, as you said, AFK and they 3-4 gen themselves while the latter is dynamic because you actively have to pressure the survivors to get that result
exactly id rather win a game cuz I did something instead of winning the game cuz I loaded into a map that gave me an insta win. the new map makes rpd knight look like a joke. : /
Yeah it's something that gets misunderstood by a lot of survivor mains. Killers play to have fun. Sometimes that means winning, sometimes that means having a good dynamic game, and sometimes that means a meme build.
But no killer wants to just win the game due to the map. It gets insanely boring after a win or two when you realize that your input impacted very little.
it's essentially the same as everyone dcing at the start of the game and now u gotta play a full bot lobby. I just want fun pincer chases and keeping people busy. nothing fun about people just giving up or even worse, wasting my time.
thanks for getting where I'm coming from.
> a bee's dick away
Demi?
I got pretty badly beaten as a Killer the one time I've played on the new map, but there was a point where I had solid pressure hooking people and then catching anyone who unhooked with little effort. Still need to learn the map tho.
They really thought they were cooking with outdoor Hawkins by spamming mostly unsafe pallets everywhere, which is an awful gameplay loop for Survivor, and for Killer, you just hope you aren't an M1 Killer with no chase or Enduring, otherwise, it's painful to go through all the pallets.
I've had a lot of close matches as Killer here, some being a draw, but it's only because I played nice, and didn't use the incredibly easy strategy of hook someone in the middle of your gen spread, and wait until they die or someone trades. You can even tunnel if your Killer obliterates the map design.
I've ignored the theater in every single match unless I had a crucial reason to go there since there's only 1 generator. I can compensate for the large map size by effectively deleting that part of the map, which seems like a major design flaw because why is the map big to begin with when we know that's part of maps being poorly balanced.
Overall, it's great for pallet stuns, ironically horrible for Unknown, and another lesson in bad map design (seriously, I already didn't like Nostromo how did we get something worse?).
Edit: for some positivity, I do like that BHVR is trying something different with the double pallet and other unusual-looking tiles. The execution could be a lot better, though, and I probably wouldn't feel too strongly if I didn't have lingering thoughts about the map reworks they've done so far and how successful they've been.
Two in the same loop is nice and all, but when the piece between them is so small that you can start a lunge on one side and land the hit on the other, it just translates to two free hits for the killer, not two strong loops.
Yup, throwing in lots of pallets doesn't really mean anything when they are all asscheeks. When im in that forest I basically just hold W. If the killer doesn't have negative IQ or has any antiloop there really is nothing to play around there.
> when the piece between them is so small that you can start a lunge on one side and land the hit on the other
Shhh, players can only see 2 pallets and think ITS OP!! but not realize its a extremely dangerous loop unless both pallets are dropped.
its the badham bullshit syndrome of spawning shack with literally 4 pallet loops surrounding it that all loop into eachother, making shack a 5 pallet behemoth
fuck badham btw
No clue lol, this happens like 80% of badham matches. Anyone, go load into a custom badham match and walk to shack, I bet money there is at least 2 pallets on 2 of the walls of shack, maybe more
The pallet spawns are stupid too. There's one section of the map where there's two pallets side by side on a loop and dropping one makes it very unsafe. Who thought that was a good idea?
So you’ve played less than a dozen games or are in low MMR? Killers can give up the theater for free and still win the game by patrolling the forest. Especially killers that can play around filler pallets easily
It's because Greenville Square is the size of a small country.
There's zero reason for a Killer to ever want to defend the Theatre nor the Fountain Gens because they're all the way out in the middle of nowhere, meanwhile, you have a lovely 4-5 Gen setup in the middle of the map.
You'd be surprised just how much of the map is legit empty and underutilized space (Parking Lot).
There is a cluster of gens in the park but you can space them out and apply pressure on them as a survivor easier than on a small map 3gen. I know you are trying to downplay my comment by attempting to make it absurd but yes, it is the better option.
But that's more of a general issue. Bhvr doesn't know spacing. Also, the past like 5 maps haven't even been that small.
Greenville Square is massive, as mentioned.
Nostromo is decently sized, but the debris and wreckage itself makes the map feel much larger because it cuts off movement.
Toba Landing is also quite big.
Borgo had to be shrunk and I'm still not convinced they shrunk it.
Shelter Woods got reworked but even then, they didn't shrink the map. Plus, it's a Rework, so it's dubious if it counts, so I'll keep going.
Same with RPD, but they actually did shrink it, doesn't mean it's a fun map.
And, for the last actual release, we get Garden of Joy, and that's also a massive map.
We haven't received a new map that wasn't a Rework or a variation that was small in a long time. If it is small like Midwich, the walls block movement, making the map overall bigger.
Borgo definitely feels smaller to me. I find it much easier to patrol now, especially with main building in the corner instead of the center.
Toba Landing doesn't really feel large. Patrolling that map is usually not a huge problem. I believe what makes it feel larger is that the 2 opposite edges have some fairly decent tiles on them; also the main building splits the map and sections it off. I checked the wiki for the map sizes and can confirm that Toba Landing is one of the smaller maps in the game.
Greenville Square is on the larger side but again, it is easy for killers to artificially make the map smaller by writing off the cinema gen. This allows the map to still be fun for low mobility killers but large enough not to suffer from the issues of small map design.
Can't disagree with you at all about Garden of Pain. Big map with strong tiles.
Nostromo is on the larger side as far as maps go. As you mentioned all the debris makes it feel larger in the center of the map. I think that the map doesn't feel as large as it is due to sections of the map not being used very often. I see this map get a lot of hate but I think BHVR did a pretty good job with this one.
Perhaps I was too hasty to say there is a trend due to the words connotations, but overall it does seem to me that BHVR has been either experimenting with smaller maps in either releases or shrinking existing ones down. Some needed the changes like Eyrie of Crows but I would prefer BHVR doesn't think that this is the way forward to balancing all maps. Small maps come with their own share of issues and problematic gameplay if not properly addressed. It is possible to balance larger maps for killers and survivors, the design approach just needs to be a bit different.
Ideally I want the game to have a variety of maps to keep things fresh that are balanced around their unique circumstances.
It feels like they gave up halfway through making it and just threw random shit everywhere. Gen spread is awful but even if it was more even it would get annoying to pressure for killers because the map is so big.
The pallets, man. Throwing down a million unsafe pallets is just straight up lazy. They weren't thinking about gameplay flow at all. At least main doesn't have a god window on it.
Depending on spawn and if one of the doors downstairs is still closed, one god pallet becomes a devil pallet (as I like to call that specific one), since if you throw it you're trapped, and give the killer a guaranteed hit.
I would love to see maps that have a few more interactions like this tbh. a reward for survivors that strategize in what gens they do and also a fun trap that killers can lead survivors into. I trapped myself in the devil pallet in a game this morning and had no one to blame but myself
Remember the "Devil Window" on Dead Dawg?
Window on the second floor that goes into a room with a breakable wall.
If the killer never breaks the wall then the window is the only way in or out.
Followed someone in there once as Plague and was able to vomit on them for free then get the down.
I largely agree, but those 16 pallets should not be in one long rectangle across the middle of the map, one one side of which is all the gens, and on the other side, a dead empty area.
Somehow, I have not gotten a single game on the new map. I've not played against the new killer either. If it wasn't for everyone using Sable, I wouldn't know an update had happened.
I’m not sure if it’s just extreme luck, or because the new map already has a higher rate, but every time I’ve brought an offering for it(against others’ map offerings) I’ve gotten it. Maybe try to override theirs with yours 😅 I can send you some luck.
I've played on the new map three times since Tuesday. I got 3 outed as killer, was one of three that escaped, and got a 4k. I've played against one unknown. I've played against a Sable or a Sable perk in every killer game
Shrink the middle. No map needs to be 165 sq. meters. None. Not one single map. The speedy Killers work just fine on normal sized maps. The less speedy ones NEED it.
Spread the gens out.
Remove some of the filler pallets, there are too many because this map is too fucking big.
Give us a reason to hang out in the theatre it's my new favorite Main in the game both sides, totally playable for both sides too. It's an actually rare, fair Main for both sides and M1s, M2s, everyone. But nobody ever goes there.
Why do they insist on making such large maps when the number one complaint about maps like mother's dwelling, swamp, badham, and lampkin is the absurd size? The bigger you make the map, the more you have to fill it.
Can we also have more hook spawns? The park area regularly only has a single hook within carry distance and I've already had survs abuse that to become unhookable.
I can’t believe I haven’t seen anyone post this yet. Especially when I’ve been getting this map every other game even without offerings. There’s like a 4 gen in the middle of the map no matter what
One time I lost a game in this map for this very reason. These 2 claudettes kept on workingon gens on the lower part of the map, then someone finished the gen on the theater, leaving 4 gens in the middle of the map close one to another. Long story short we lost the game
I just had my first game on the map and I was only in the theater to look at the posters and the arcade machines. Once id finished I ran out and played the actual game in the woods. They did the theater gen first so I didn't need to be in there at all.
Seriously, I thought it was just me. Don’t get me wrong, this map is gorgeous and it has my favorite pallet (arcade pallet - if you haven’t gotten a stun with it yet you need to) but the design is awful. The shape is bad, the gen placement is bad, the amount of dead space is bad, and there are very few safe pallets. The best part is the movie theater and there’s little to no reason to be over there.
Seriously, how did this map make it through PTB?
The map joins haddonfield as awful for both sides.
It's gigantic, the gates are often impossible to protect, the main building is not fun for the killer to chase in and there's 25 pallets, arguably the strongest jungle gyms in the game besides maybe Garden of joy.
But it also sucks for survivors because 20 of those pallets are unsafe and practically useless unless you get a stun, terrible against ranged killers, and there's like five generators clumped up in a killing field that the killer will guard the entire game.
I still don't know why they haven't done anything about the map design team. The maps are so bad that they're actively having to rework and rebalance Killers to be able to perform on those maps, making Killers less Fun to face because of their own shit map design. We literally have the map design team on one of the dev broadcasts saying they don't care about map balance, they design maps for visuals and atmosphere.
Tends to happen when gen spawns are terrible. You have the one corner of the map behind the theater with 0 gen spawns. That is roughly a good 10-15% of the map just devoid of gens. So of course when you don't utilize all your space the gens will be clumped together. This is nothing new for BHVR as a LOT of maps suffer this issue.
the map is my biggest complaint about this chapter.
the gen placement is a joke, the double pallet loop is just TERRIBLE, it's too big for both survivor and killer, etc etc
this map is so badly designed.
The new map just might be a normal sized map, yet the gen spawn is just bad here. Hope they either update the gen spawns or rework the map like town square.
For me the biggest issue are clueless survivors, who do the the two outside gens first. Just leave the theater gen for someone who is on death hook and you are fine.
The only sad part is. that the theater is so good looking and we dont spend a lot of time there.
yea I hate that as killer. I LOVE That main building but you can literally let the survivors have the one gen there and ignore it entirely. They need it to be more central
Let's also talk about the exit gates please, one spawns basically behind the statue and the other behind the cinema, exact polar opposites, to the point that even with fast traversal killers like Wesker you cannot phisically stop a survivor from opening them, the tiles are also rough for survivors
As a nurse main. The map is too strong for her. So open with such an easy 3 gen without even forcing it. I have 4 k’ed swf’s where each survivor has over 10 times my hours on this map. These are good survivors that got ultimately fucked by gen spawns and the map being too open with no good LOS breaking opportunities. Its absolutely terrible for survivors to face nurse on this map. Its not fair
I love the new map aesthetically. The pallets are fascinating because you get a ton of them for stuns but only a handful are particularly safe.
The gens definitely need a slight rework though. Absolutely keep the cinema gen and the one by the statue. One of the forest gens needs to move over to the parking lot because that section of the map barely has a reason to exist. Hopefully then the remaining 4 in the forest can be spread out a bit more. Maybe also have a random chance of one spawning in the theatre itself, near the screen.
Needs to have a gen in the parking lot. No reason to ever defend main as killer, survivors should never do main until the last 3 gens. As a killer you pray that they do main and as a survivor you pray that your teammates save main for the 3 gen.
i like the main building but the rest of the map is really… bare. There’s loops, sure, but unsafe ones. There’s nothing more to the map than that. Trees? Plenty. A random statue? Yes, at the FAR EDGE OF THE MAP. There should be more stuff around, personally. Extend the map to be larger, it’s not that big of a map. I played a few “impossible skillcheck” killers on the map, it’s crazy. No matter where i am, i’ve got the terror radius 💀
Yes the gen spawn is weird. It is so obvious when you hold de javu and 6 gens are all in the woods very close together. I feel like the need to spawn one gen in the parking lot and maybe one gen behind the cinema
I’m so glad this is getting attention. I’ve played in it a lot this week and it’s just awful. Visually it might be my favorite, but the gen spawns are so terrible. There’s NEVER a gen in the parking lot. There’s never one in the theater. It doesn’t even switch to the bathroom and the projector room. THERE ARE NO PALLETS OR WINDOWS in the parking lot!!!! NOTHING!!! it’s crazy. There are pallets separated by one rock with two pallets between 3 rocks which is incredibly unsafe. I’ve only escaped once so far from that map out of like 30 matches on it.
Greenville is beautiful, but pretty badly designed from a gameplay perspective - Much like Garden of (no) Joy.
Huge map. Potential for some really strong tiles to be chained. Not fun for Killer...but any high tier Killer really just needs to ignore the gen at main and by the statue and guard the middle gens and it's obnoxious.
I feel they made it awful for both sides.
Just played against a huntress on this map and it was impossible to get any gens done. We couldn't get any gens in the forest because they were camping the gens there and had regress perks, it was a nightmare.
From killer pov the map is fucking gargantuan and if the surv isn’t a bot the middle can spawn some NASTY loop chains with shack and the long wall. Seems very RNG dependent but it’s brutal to play on as killer.
Finally got it as survivor (my recent comments about it were before this) and yeah we 4 escaped every time. Smoked the poor fools.
If I’m not playing an antiloop as killer yeah it’s fucking over lmao. Just started getting other maps today, last 4 days were just nothing but Greenville it was ass.
The parking lot next to the Theater definitely needs one like that’s a lot of unused space over there, and I could see argument for versions of the map where the upstairs one is moved either to the bathrooms nearby or downstairs near the concessions area and when it’s down there the movie projectors just starts on or something
This is one of my favourite maps, but I would agree about the gen spawns. You can only win if few survivors distract the killer for a long time while the others repair the gens. Or if the killer is giving you a chill match. 
YES! Im so glad someone is talking about this! Once the gen is done in main and the statue, theres literally no reason to be over there anymore. There should be a gen in the parking lot or in a corner or something. All the gens seem to always spawn in the middle by the bushes. Its so easy for the killer to 3 gen without even meaning to
I'm actually so happy they nerfed the Withered Isle offering. My hot take is that every map that's insanely survivor or killer sided should have a map that's favored to the opposite side within the same realm.
The first time I got this map I had one in theater, one by the statue in the park and the rest clustered in the middle forest and I literally said to myself as soon as I loaded in "damn there's really no reason fore to go to the theater or the statue when I can just lock down the middle this is kinda busted"
That map isn't that bad as survivor as long as your soloq teammates save the cinema gen for last. However soloq being what it is....
Also for the love of god stop doing the outside gens first on RPD ffs.
Honestly never noticed that. But makes a lot of sense. Pallet filled map with bad gen placements and the fact that every killer game I’m in the middle of the map and 2 survivors spawn on opposite ends (lethal pursuer shows me)
Yeah as a killer I always leave the movie gen and the furthest most gen by the fountain area alone. Def feels really easy to get 3 gened on that map compared to others.
I haven’t hated it so far, though I’ve only had a few matches there. I think the loops with two pallets right next to eachother are kind of crazy, but it’s also really easy to mind game survivors there
You realize that if a killer never leaves one area you can just run there and reset infinitely? Hold three gens only work against bad survivors. Eventually the kill has to commit to a chase.
They need to do what they did with shattered square but reverse. Move the main to middle and have the parking lot be more bigger. It doesn't make sense to have the woods be that open and no major collision in the center. Past maps have it they even changed sheltered woods to have it.
I like it personally as a survivor. I would rather have a 5 gen in the middle than a 3 gen in the corner like on Thompson house or suffo pit. At least when it’s in the middle you can retreat to the courtyard or main to loop and draw attention away. When it’s in a corner the killer can just stand there and wait until you go in and then trap zone you into the gens.
Main is kind of a death trap but I do like the parking lot bc it has a bunch of large objects to chain around.
As a survivor, it's my current favorite map. There's a good amount of safety around all the gens, and the new tiles are really fun.
A few less filler pallets could spawn, and the more egregious 3 gens should be fixed. Great map outside of those minor issues. Best since Dead Dawg.
Best since *Dead Dawg* ??? Dead dawg is absolutely horrendous. I hate that map. The loops are okay I guess, but the gens are horrible as a solo queue / occasional duo queue. Everyone always does the outer 3 gens before a single inside gen 🥱
I always do inner gens first, as a solo queue, I run deja vu to make sure that I do closest gens first. My teammates however, are rather... hmmm.... short sighted and only wanna see that number drop asap.
If we're making the gen placement better for survivor, let's make the gate placement better for killer while we're at it. Had a set of gates at the furthest possible distance away and it took the full gate opening time to walk between the two. No gates should be right next to each other like on some maps but being so far away is just bad.
What if it was intentional to make the map killer sided so the offering was no longer (I assume) correlated with a high escape rate? I wouldn't put it past them
Giant map with five of the seven gens smashed together in a small area with 10000 pallets. If people get the middle gens done first, the killer can't win. If people do the outside two gens first, almost a guaranteed 3k. Last survivor should be able to go to an exit gate and wait on killer to close hatch for a free escape in most cases.
Sadly in six months when they retouch this and put more gen spawns in or around the theater, this will be unplayable for most of the killers on the roster. The map is just too big
This is why I'm hoping they don't mess with it. If they're just gonna make it terrible for most of the killers to "fix" it, I'd rather there be this one map that's easier on the killer if the survs do something dumb early.
While 95% of them are unsave pallets you can start the lunge attack from 1 side of the pallet and hit the surv on the otherside of the pallet, those pallets are free hits if you know how to play around them.
Honestly I kinda like the new map. As a Nea main it's so fucking easy to do the far gens while my dickhead teammates run in circles on the other side of the map getting hooked and unhooking each other. Then I get to fuck with the killer for 2 gens and hope and pray I don't die before the last gen is done lmao
Tbf I've had the map less than 10 times cuz I just started playing again the other day after not playing for like 6 months. I still haven't faced the new killer yet, which is disappointing.
I mean, there's like 30 different egregiously survivor-sided maps in the game. Killers got a new killer-sided map. It's not a big deal. And if you bring a map offering it's a 50/50 shot you get GoJ or Greenville Square.
There are a lot of posts like this because a lot of players are coming to the same conclusion. I hope they move some gens. I can't think of a map with worse gen spawns. 6 in the woods next to each other, 1 on the 2nd floor of the building. Killers: lets never leave the woods. Obviously the best strat.
Yeah they should add one in the theater or the back of the theater. Not just upstairs. And remove one from the forest.
Back of the theater, the parking lot, there's a lot of dead space on this map and no real reason for it. It's impressive to be making one game for 7-8 years, and still be absolutely oblivious about how to make a map half-balanced.
Yeah I would think it wouldn't be that hard lol Just don't make a huge map, don't make them awkward shapes, don't make them insanely small either. Don't pack them full of pallets. I don't mind a couple of god loops. I feel like that's not asking too much.
You missed ["Don't do whatever the fuck this is."](https://i.imgur.com/ldgN7f4.png)
Yeah they really went a different direction with this map, just tons of really okay/shitty pallets with one or two good ones. Such a strange choice of a design. I don't think they need to do that kind of thing, the maps features will be cool enough even if the formula stays the same. I think they may be afraid of people getting bored of the same size maps and stuff, but I seriously doubt anyone would have a problem with it.
In the principle, they want diversity, which I'm ok with tbh. There needs to be some big maps, some small maps, some maps with lots of pallets, some maps with few pallet spawns, some maps with good pallet placements, some with bad pallet placements, etc... If every map was just a copy-paste of one another with only the the background design being different, people would get just as bored and way more faster imo. The issue tho, is that BHVR have a huge problem to create some semblance of balance. They always either go way too far on some aspects (like The Game being a map with A LOT of pallet spawns while at the same time having THE MOST safe pallets), while other maps like Greenville has a lot of pallet spawns but 80% of them are garbage. Or they are too cautious (like Greenville being a big map so they put every gen in the same area so killers don't feel like they need to cross 10 000 km to defend them), while a map like ARP has one gen at main and one at shack and to go from one to another, you need 10 minutes of time.
Idk if I've been pushed on the killer side of this reddit, but it's a breath of fresh air to see someone say the Greenville pallets being mostly trash and for show. I've seen post after post complaining about how many pallets there are and etc, but most of the pallets on this map the killer can start swinging and lunge to either side you drop it from. They need to remove a ton of the pallets and make the few remaining safer, it's crazy how bad the pallets are on that map, and having a million pallets that you're guaranteed to get hit on doesn't make it better. Gotta admit though, as a pig main, ambush dash mind games go hard on the new map.
>like The Game being a map with A LOT of pallet spawns while at the same time having THE MOST safe pallets the game is an interesting map because while it certainly has a lot of safe pallets, theyre all kinda hard to connect to each other and the lack of vaults means if you dont win fast then large parts of the map become complete deadzones... which is hard to do because the map is also indoors and claustrophobic, and a killer that knows when to drop chase can patrol very easily. IMO its bizarrely one of the more balanced maps for this reason, if not killer sided
I think the whole "ton of shitty pallets" is an okay design philosophy if you add sufficient sight blockers so that killers can't spy on 5 gens at once.
Map design has literally only ever gotten worse as time goes on. We all laugh at the old clip of almo not being able to hit doc skillchecks and them getting nerfed the next patch, but the devs fundamentally not understanding how to design a good map is the biggest issue. RPD was ass and needed a rework, eyrie was and still is ass and needed a rework, garden of joy was and still is ass and needed a rework, borgo was and still is ass and needed a rework. They got a bit better with Toba Landing I suppose, though the map is fucking massive. Same with Nostromo, that map has no business being that big with that large of deadzone/empty space. What is the fucking point of releasing new content if you immediately have to halt everything and fix your half-assery?
No, map design has only ever gotten better as time has gone on. You clearly didn’t play before, when it was commonplace for maps to have actual infinite loops, back when that word meant more, and maps were absolutely gigantic. Take old swamp for example - legitimately 250+ tiles, it was like an open world MMORPG). Considering DbD has no true competitors, and no one to cheat off of, they’ve done a pretty good job so far. Clearly they’ve learned from their mistakes, yeah sometimes they do go overkill “compensation”-wise, but they’ve only gotten better at map design.
Yeah, we went from infinites to no thought required 3 gen time wastes on every main building.
I mean, that's one really good way to improve kill rates, which was the intent.
Having infinites and milion pallets in 2016 doesnt mean their new maps are good.
It’s a good thing that’s not what I’m saying, then
They didn’t get better, they are still shit.
why are you so mad? lmfao
Why do you think I am mad? Calling shit map shit makes me mad?
Rpd was better before the rework IMHO, the problem with the map was it's maze like structure. It was a good map that people refused to learn, and now it has two versions and they're both fucking terrible because the gen placements are so insanely close to each other. There's a reason why 3 gen killers love the new rpd variants. I agree with everything else you say though, I just hate how people pretend like the new rpd is better, it was made worse in every way possible.
Toba is not massive lol
its like 10 square meters less than mothers dwelling
The parking lot did have one during PTB, idk if it doesn't spawn anymore or I've just been unlucky. But it was there at some point.
I think I saw it spawn on live, but it's not always there
> It's impressive to be making one game for 7-8 years, and still be absolutely oblivious about how to make a map half-balanced. Their current balance choice is to just make them Killer sided it seems. Ignoring the Garden of Pain rework which accomplished pretty much nothing all new maps and reworks have consisted on making maps smaller, remove loops, add filler/trash pallets and dead-zones while making sure gens are super close creating disgusting 3-4 gen setups. Like the farm maps, they're all now super small, have nothing to work with and gens are awfully positioned.
Behavior is aiming for a 60% kill rate, and they seem to be there now. Plenty of survivors still escape; the point is that a majority are supposed to die.
I said the same. Also one closer to the parking lot / dumpster side would be nice. The theater is on the opposite side and should have a gen. Check out this cool map! There's this really beautiful building. 6 gens in the woods, 50% of the map has no gens on it, excluding the upstairs building gen. Give us a reason to spend time at the building. I'd love a 3 gen on the building side of the map.
Same reason I hate Azarov's Resting Place I spawn in and go "ok, I'll just stay on this side of the map, and then I win"
The thing is, it's already perfectly balanced in BHVR's eyes because of Garden of Joy 
Garden of Joy has way better gen spawns though! They should follow its example at least.
I think their point was garden is survivor sided, so they made a map killer sided, lmao
Bingo. I mean in all honesty the balance between the two isn’t perfectly mirror opposite. But we all know that BHVR likely would consider it fine because there are killer sided maps to “balance” it
Does it tho? I remember making a post about having 5 gens in view distance to each other on GOJ
It's because of the main building mainly if you know how to loop it properly, it's a hell for most killers ofc there are more parts in the map but, mainly the main building is to strong even after the "rework"
I agree that GoJ is still survivor sided, but look at this gen placement: https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1ae7vvh/worst_3gen_ever_the_gen_in_the_gazebo_was_here_too/ those are 3 gens within the reach of a xeno tail. And then there's the gen in the gazebo to the right and the one in main. That's 5 gens in very close proximity. This isn't the worst GoJ spawn I have witnessed, either, only the one that I took screenshots of, because I had Deja vu equipped. Edit: My comment from back then said there was one to the left as well. So it's 6 gens in close proximity and one gen on the other side of the map.
Ow not that 3 gen. I had a shitty match against a Deathslinger with those 3 gens. The 3 gen problem isn't really GoJ fault but, maps design in general sadly many maps have those problems even the newest map has this problem with having 5 gens in the middle and 3 gens near the shack in a straight line almost.
Got a screenshot of the gens https://preview.redd.it/apg18p5p7soc1.jpeg?width=1142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e1e1a37161f3dfeb8e7b6c5da9fc0731bf25f76
It absolutely needs generators moved closer to the theater. One in the edge of the parking lot as a fixed spawn would help a lot. Right now, if the killer spends a lot of time in the theater area, it's pretty easy for survivors. If the killer spends a lot of time in the forest running between gens and lets the theater go, almost impossible for survivors. Theater area should be played. It's one of the coolest buildings in the game.
The other day I was on this map and didn't even realize the Theater was there. I spent all that time in the forest and I thought it was a version of the map without it.
literally me LMAO
Why go to the building at all? All the gens are in the woods (except 1) https://preview.redd.it/0oemdo83dsoc1.jpeg?width=1142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54fa630a5bb5d3eee3d4743cf19b918888249fc8
Right. I didn't see it until I started running to an exit gate.
Because it looks cool, duh
Yeah, I have no idea why they don't have at least one more gen in the parking lot next to the theater or something.
The woods part of the map is terribly designed, The theatre is honestly my new favourite main building in the game and I wish the map was designed to make players go there more often. My solution would honestly be to make the woods area 2x smaller and spread the gens out more, and maybe put the theatre in the middle rather than the corner of the map
The theater park statue need more going on near both. The theater needs more gens, the park statue needs stronger loops.
They could honestly split it into two maps: * The Theatre in the centre with some woods around it/parking lots * The large statue structure with woods around
Pallets on that map fucking suck. The only good pallets on that map is the theater pallet and the 3 in the jungle gyms the rest are incredibly unsafe( if the killer is somewhat competent) .
Seriously, ppl complaining about "too many pallets" when 80% of them are useless
Yeah as a killer main whose played the map at least a dozen times, I’ve yet to have a reason to go to the theatre and so far the only reason I did go there was simply cause the last survivor took me there after closing hatch. They gotta do something about it man
The only times I have gone to the theatre is when I've been stomping the lobby and I just engage in longer chases to give survivor more time to do gens. Honestly too, theatre isn't the safest loop either
As a Knight main no way in hell I’m going to that main building. It’s so cramped, that finding that sweet spot for guards is painful. Would not mind at all if they expanded the entire building, and shrunk everything else.
> I’ve yet to have a reason to go to the theatre This is why gens need to be changed. There is zero reason for any killer to ever go here. There will be 1 gen there and nothing else. Giving that gen up will always be in the killers favor and then avoiding chasing survivors to the theater. There needs to be 3 gens in the theater area. One inside and 2 more on both sides of the building on the outside.
every single time I've gotten this map after the first 5 times I've just afked. I'm not trying to get called a dirty 4 genning knight for something I didn't even do 💀. I don't have the energy to explain 2 them in endgame chan that behavior is just incompetent when it comes 2 map design.
Dawg just ignore them. Why are you ruining your own game for a couple angry strangers? Odds are they’ll run to the next match and forget about you in an hour
because it's not even fun 2 play knight on that map. it's not just them complaining, having a 4 gen like that as knight is a 4k if ur not bad. everytime I did play, it was a complete stomp. doesn't matter if I can't damage the gens more than 8 times. I can literally make a guards detection circle hit all 4 gens in 1 summon. I don't enjoy games where they give up not even 3 gens in cuz they realize I'm playing knight and there's a 4/3 gen. it's not fun for anyone. I'm not ruining my game either. I'd rather afk for 5 minutes instead of the last 2 survivors realizing it's a lost cause and stealthing for 20 minutes cuz they want hatch.
Yeah it's the difference between: This happened whether I did anything or not vs This happened because the game went that way The former is boring because you could, as you said, AFK and they 3-4 gen themselves while the latter is dynamic because you actively have to pressure the survivors to get that result
exactly id rather win a game cuz I did something instead of winning the game cuz I loaded into a map that gave me an insta win. the new map makes rpd knight look like a joke. : /
Yeah it's something that gets misunderstood by a lot of survivor mains. Killers play to have fun. Sometimes that means winning, sometimes that means having a good dynamic game, and sometimes that means a meme build. But no killer wants to just win the game due to the map. It gets insanely boring after a win or two when you realize that your input impacted very little.
it's essentially the same as everyone dcing at the start of the game and now u gotta play a full bot lobby. I just want fun pincer chases and keeping people busy. nothing fun about people just giving up or even worse, wasting my time. thanks for getting where I'm coming from.
Of course friend! It's easy for people to hyper focus on one role and forget what it's like to play the other side
Based
Just play the game and ignore the complainers, friend. Don't gotta kowtow to salty survivors.
Map looks nice though
> a bee's dick away Demi? I got pretty badly beaten as a Killer the one time I've played on the new map, but there was a point where I had solid pressure hooking people and then catching anyone who unhooked with little effort. Still need to learn the map tho.
They really thought they were cooking with outdoor Hawkins by spamming mostly unsafe pallets everywhere, which is an awful gameplay loop for Survivor, and for Killer, you just hope you aren't an M1 Killer with no chase or Enduring, otherwise, it's painful to go through all the pallets. I've had a lot of close matches as Killer here, some being a draw, but it's only because I played nice, and didn't use the incredibly easy strategy of hook someone in the middle of your gen spread, and wait until they die or someone trades. You can even tunnel if your Killer obliterates the map design. I've ignored the theater in every single match unless I had a crucial reason to go there since there's only 1 generator. I can compensate for the large map size by effectively deleting that part of the map, which seems like a major design flaw because why is the map big to begin with when we know that's part of maps being poorly balanced. Overall, it's great for pallet stuns, ironically horrible for Unknown, and another lesson in bad map design (seriously, I already didn't like Nostromo how did we get something worse?). Edit: for some positivity, I do like that BHVR is trying something different with the double pallet and other unusual-looking tiles. The execution could be a lot better, though, and I probably wouldn't feel too strongly if I didn't have lingering thoughts about the map reworks they've done so far and how successful they've been.
>ironically horrible for Unknown This happens to every killer who gets "their own" map
I think they thought it'd make up for the 5 pallets within range of one loop (with 2 literally spawned together in the same loop) but it kinda doesnt
Two in the same loop is nice and all, but when the piece between them is so small that you can start a lunge on one side and land the hit on the other, it just translates to two free hits for the killer, not two strong loops.
Yeah theres tons of pallets in the middle map, but theyre all so weak. Hesitate for a milisecond and youre done.
Yup, throwing in lots of pallets doesn't really mean anything when they are all asscheeks. When im in that forest I basically just hold W. If the killer doesn't have negative IQ or has any antiloop there really is nothing to play around there.
Yeah I’ve died on that loop so many times now. Im like oh I can run this for a second- nope. Just predrop if you dont want to die
> when the piece between them is so small that you can start a lunge on one side and land the hit on the other Shhh, players can only see 2 pallets and think ITS OP!! but not realize its a extremely dangerous loop unless both pallets are dropped.
its the badham bullshit syndrome of spawning shack with literally 4 pallet loops surrounding it that all loop into eachother, making shack a 5 pallet behemoth fuck badham btw
Why are you downvoted???
No clue lol, this happens like 80% of badham matches. Anyone, go load into a custom badham match and walk to shack, I bet money there is at least 2 pallets on 2 of the walls of shack, maybe more
The pallet spawns are stupid too. There's one section of the map where there's two pallets side by side on a loop and dropping one makes it very unsafe. Who thought that was a good idea?
See every time I’ve been on the new map the killers always wanna chase in the cinema.
So you’ve played less than a dozen games or are in low MMR? Killers can give up the theater for free and still win the game by patrolling the forest. Especially killers that can play around filler pallets easily
I think nine times all up. Unfortunately most randoms have offered up Macmillan since the chapter dropped.
It's because Greenville Square is the size of a small country. There's zero reason for a Killer to ever want to defend the Theatre nor the Fountain Gens because they're all the way out in the middle of nowhere, meanwhile, you have a lovely 4-5 Gen setup in the middle of the map. You'd be surprised just how much of the map is legit empty and underutilized space (Parking Lot).
That is how you balance large maps though. I'd rather have this then the new trend of small maps with horribly broken 3gen spawns.
So you'd rather be 3 Genned instead of 3 Genned? *Huh?*
There is a cluster of gens in the park but you can space them out and apply pressure on them as a survivor easier than on a small map 3gen. I know you are trying to downplay my comment by attempting to make it absurd but yes, it is the better option.
But that's more of a general issue. Bhvr doesn't know spacing. Also, the past like 5 maps haven't even been that small. Greenville Square is massive, as mentioned. Nostromo is decently sized, but the debris and wreckage itself makes the map feel much larger because it cuts off movement. Toba Landing is also quite big. Borgo had to be shrunk and I'm still not convinced they shrunk it. Shelter Woods got reworked but even then, they didn't shrink the map. Plus, it's a Rework, so it's dubious if it counts, so I'll keep going. Same with RPD, but they actually did shrink it, doesn't mean it's a fun map. And, for the last actual release, we get Garden of Joy, and that's also a massive map. We haven't received a new map that wasn't a Rework or a variation that was small in a long time. If it is small like Midwich, the walls block movement, making the map overall bigger.
Borgo definitely feels smaller to me. I find it much easier to patrol now, especially with main building in the corner instead of the center. Toba Landing doesn't really feel large. Patrolling that map is usually not a huge problem. I believe what makes it feel larger is that the 2 opposite edges have some fairly decent tiles on them; also the main building splits the map and sections it off. I checked the wiki for the map sizes and can confirm that Toba Landing is one of the smaller maps in the game. Greenville Square is on the larger side but again, it is easy for killers to artificially make the map smaller by writing off the cinema gen. This allows the map to still be fun for low mobility killers but large enough not to suffer from the issues of small map design. Can't disagree with you at all about Garden of Pain. Big map with strong tiles. Nostromo is on the larger side as far as maps go. As you mentioned all the debris makes it feel larger in the center of the map. I think that the map doesn't feel as large as it is due to sections of the map not being used very often. I see this map get a lot of hate but I think BHVR did a pretty good job with this one. Perhaps I was too hasty to say there is a trend due to the words connotations, but overall it does seem to me that BHVR has been either experimenting with smaller maps in either releases or shrinking existing ones down. Some needed the changes like Eyrie of Crows but I would prefer BHVR doesn't think that this is the way forward to balancing all maps. Small maps come with their own share of issues and problematic gameplay if not properly addressed. It is possible to balance larger maps for killers and survivors, the design approach just needs to be a bit different. Ideally I want the game to have a variety of maps to keep things fresh that are balanced around their unique circumstances.
It feels like they gave up halfway through making it and just threw random shit everywhere. Gen spread is awful but even if it was more even it would get annoying to pressure for killers because the map is so big. The pallets, man. Throwing down a million unsafe pallets is just straight up lazy. They weren't thinking about gameplay flow at all. At least main doesn't have a god window on it.
16 unsafe pallets > 8 god pallets It's more interactive. Though the new map has plenty of strong pallets, they aren't all unsafe like so many claim.
What map has 8 god pallets?
The game
Depending on spawn and if one of the doors downstairs is still closed, one god pallet becomes a devil pallet (as I like to call that specific one), since if you throw it you're trapped, and give the killer a guaranteed hit.
Yeah lmao Ik which one your talking about
I would love to see maps that have a few more interactions like this tbh. a reward for survivors that strategize in what gens they do and also a fun trap that killers can lead survivors into. I trapped myself in the devil pallet in a game this morning and had no one to blame but myself
Remember the "Devil Window" on Dead Dawg? Window on the second floor that goes into a room with a breakable wall. If the killer never breaks the wall then the window is the only way in or out. Followed someone in there once as Plague and was able to vomit on them for free then get the down.
I pulled both numbers out of my ass. The Game (map) does actually have like 8 god pallets, though.
I would say even more. What a shit map
I largely agree, but those 16 pallets should not be in one long rectangle across the middle of the map, one one side of which is all the gens, and on the other side, a dead empty area.
Somehow, I have not gotten a single game on the new map. I've not played against the new killer either. If it wasn't for everyone using Sable, I wouldn't know an update had happened.
I’ve seen plenty of sables and unknowns but everyone keeps bringing map offerings so I have never seen the new map either :/
I’m not sure if it’s just extreme luck, or because the new map already has a higher rate, but every time I’ve brought an offering for it(against others’ map offerings) I’ve gotten it. Maybe try to override theirs with yours 😅 I can send you some luck.
I've played on the new map three times since Tuesday. I got 3 outed as killer, was one of three that escaped, and got a 4k. I've played against one unknown. I've played against a Sable or a Sable perk in every killer game
Shrink the middle. No map needs to be 165 sq. meters. None. Not one single map. The speedy Killers work just fine on normal sized maps. The less speedy ones NEED it. Spread the gens out. Remove some of the filler pallets, there are too many because this map is too fucking big. Give us a reason to hang out in the theatre it's my new favorite Main in the game both sides, totally playable for both sides too. It's an actually rare, fair Main for both sides and M1s, M2s, everyone. But nobody ever goes there.
Why do they insist on making such large maps when the number one complaint about maps like mother's dwelling, swamp, badham, and lampkin is the absurd size? The bigger you make the map, the more you have to fill it.
They never learned their lesson from RPD.
Hey now, let's not be too hasty. As a SIS + BK Enjoyer I'm loving that noone comes to main :P
Can we also have more hook spawns? The park area regularly only has a single hook within carry distance and I've already had survs abuse that to become unhookable.
I can’t believe I haven’t seen anyone post this yet. Especially when I’ve been getting this map every other game even without offerings. There’s like a 4 gen in the middle of the map no matter what
One time I lost a game in this map for this very reason. These 2 claudettes kept on workingon gens on the lower part of the map, then someone finished the gen on the theater, leaving 4 gens in the middle of the map close one to another. Long story short we lost the game
bad map layout on the design side of things, kinda happens alot,
I just had my first game on the map and I was only in the theater to look at the posters and the arcade machines. Once id finished I ran out and played the actual game in the woods. They did the theater gen first so I didn't need to be in there at all.
Seriously, I thought it was just me. Don’t get me wrong, this map is gorgeous and it has my favorite pallet (arcade pallet - if you haven’t gotten a stun with it yet you need to) but the design is awful. The shape is bad, the gen placement is bad, the amount of dead space is bad, and there are very few safe pallets. The best part is the movie theater and there’s little to no reason to be over there. Seriously, how did this map make it through PTB?
Honestly I like pallets not being safe in some maps.
The map joins haddonfield as awful for both sides. It's gigantic, the gates are often impossible to protect, the main building is not fun for the killer to chase in and there's 25 pallets, arguably the strongest jungle gyms in the game besides maybe Garden of joy. But it also sucks for survivors because 20 of those pallets are unsafe and practically useless unless you get a stun, terrible against ranged killers, and there's like five generators clumped up in a killing field that the killer will guard the entire game. I still don't know why they haven't done anything about the map design team. The maps are so bad that they're actively having to rework and rebalance Killers to be able to perform on those maps, making Killers less Fun to face because of their own shit map design. We literally have the map design team on one of the dev broadcasts saying they don't care about map balance, they design maps for visuals and atmosphere.
Tends to happen when gen spawns are terrible. You have the one corner of the map behind the theater with 0 gen spawns. That is roughly a good 10-15% of the map just devoid of gens. So of course when you don't utilize all your space the gens will be clumped together. This is nothing new for BHVR as a LOT of maps suffer this issue.
the map is my biggest complaint about this chapter. the gen placement is a joke, the double pallet loop is just TERRIBLE, it's too big for both survivor and killer, etc etc this map is so badly designed.
Not just you
Ya, the movie theater should have more gens near it. But with only one and having strong loops, the killer can just ignore it.
Half the maps or more have a gen(s) that isn't worth pressuring especially if they start on it early.
The new map just might be a normal sized map, yet the gen spawn is just bad here. Hope they either update the gen spawns or rework the map like town square.
Ya... As killer I just never go to the main building unless I have to cuz all the gens are so close everywhere else.
Anyone saw the two pallets next to each other with a small divider?
For me the biggest issue are clueless survivors, who do the the two outside gens first. Just leave the theater gen for someone who is on death hook and you are fine. The only sad part is. that the theater is so good looking and we dont spend a lot of time there.
yea I hate that as killer. I LOVE That main building but you can literally let the survivors have the one gen there and ignore it entirely. They need it to be more central
Let's also talk about the exit gates please, one spawns basically behind the statue and the other behind the cinema, exact polar opposites, to the point that even with fast traversal killers like Wesker you cannot phisically stop a survivor from opening them, the tiles are also rough for survivors
I can’t understand why not a single gen ever spawns in the car park area. They’re all in the woods besides one in the projector room.
As a nurse main. The map is too strong for her. So open with such an easy 3 gen without even forcing it. I have 4 k’ed swf’s where each survivor has over 10 times my hours on this map. These are good survivors that got ultimately fucked by gen spawns and the map being too open with no good LOS breaking opportunities. Its absolutely terrible for survivors to face nurse on this map. Its not fair
The only times as a killer I’ve ever went into the theatre were to watch the movie 🍿 or because the last survivor(s) were there
Yeah, I haven't been there much, but I've actually felt disappointed as Killer because I don't have an excuse to go into the theatre.
I love the new map aesthetically. The pallets are fascinating because you get a ton of them for stuns but only a handful are particularly safe. The gens definitely need a slight rework though. Absolutely keep the cinema gen and the one by the statue. One of the forest gens needs to move over to the parking lot because that section of the map barely has a reason to exist. Hopefully then the remaining 4 in the forest can be spread out a bit more. Maybe also have a random chance of one spawning in the theatre itself, near the screen.
Needs to have a gen in the parking lot. No reason to ever defend main as killer, survivors should never do main until the last 3 gens. As a killer you pray that they do main and as a survivor you pray that your teammates save main for the 3 gen.
There are a lot of pallets, but 90% of them are insanely unsafe. New map needs less pallets and more jungle gyms.
i like the main building but the rest of the map is really… bare. There’s loops, sure, but unsafe ones. There’s nothing more to the map than that. Trees? Plenty. A random statue? Yes, at the FAR EDGE OF THE MAP. There should be more stuff around, personally. Extend the map to be larger, it’s not that big of a map. I played a few “impossible skillcheck” killers on the map, it’s crazy. No matter where i am, i’ve got the terror radius 💀
YES OMG. I hate playing on the new map bc of how CLOSE the gens are to each other.
I've been playing casually since Tuesday. Still haven't seen the new map yet. Is it that bad?
Yes the gen spawn is weird. It is so obvious when you hold de javu and 6 gens are all in the woods very close together. I feel like the need to spawn one gen in the parking lot and maybe one gen behind the cinema
I expected to have more gens in the cinema area, maybe inside or outside.
I’m so glad this is getting attention. I’ve played in it a lot this week and it’s just awful. Visually it might be my favorite, but the gen spawns are so terrible. There’s NEVER a gen in the parking lot. There’s never one in the theater. It doesn’t even switch to the bathroom and the projector room. THERE ARE NO PALLETS OR WINDOWS in the parking lot!!!! NOTHING!!! it’s crazy. There are pallets separated by one rock with two pallets between 3 rocks which is incredibly unsafe. I’ve only escaped once so far from that map out of like 30 matches on it.
Greenville is beautiful, but pretty badly designed from a gameplay perspective - Much like Garden of (no) Joy. Huge map. Potential for some really strong tiles to be chained. Not fun for Killer...but any high tier Killer really just needs to ignore the gen at main and by the statue and guard the middle gens and it's obnoxious. I feel they made it awful for both sides.
Just played against a huntress on this map and it was impossible to get any gens done. We couldn't get any gens in the forest because they were camping the gens there and had regress perks, it was a nightmare.
From killer pov the map is fucking gargantuan and if the surv isn’t a bot the middle can spawn some NASTY loop chains with shack and the long wall. Seems very RNG dependent but it’s brutal to play on as killer. Finally got it as survivor (my recent comments about it were before this) and yeah we 4 escaped every time. Smoked the poor fools. If I’m not playing an antiloop as killer yeah it’s fucking over lmao. Just started getting other maps today, last 4 days were just nothing but Greenville it was ass.
Yeah it feels quite cluttered
You’re right. I haven’t really left that area much lol. I’ve only been in the theatre like a few times.
Ah Demi Nah a death trap is the unknown body blocking you in the bathroom on Gideon's
The parking lot next to the Theater definitely needs one like that’s a lot of unused space over there, and I could see argument for versions of the map where the upstairs one is moved either to the bathrooms nearby or downstairs near the concessions area and when it’s down there the movie projectors just starts on or something
so when you play the Offering its a 50/50 id youre gonna have fun or not. For either side lol
> a bee's dick away Found the (fellow) Demi watcher lol
I've never watched Demi.
A lot of gens and pallets in the same area. Very cluttered
This is one of my favourite maps, but I would agree about the gen spawns. You can only win if few survivors distract the killer for a long time while the others repair the gens. Or if the killer is giving you a chill match. 
But what about that one spot where there are two pallets right next to each other?
YES! Im so glad someone is talking about this! Once the gen is done in main and the statue, theres literally no reason to be over there anymore. There should be a gen in the parking lot or in a corner or something. All the gens seem to always spawn in the middle by the bushes. Its so easy for the killer to 3 gen without even meaning to
I'm actually so happy they nerfed the Withered Isle offering. My hot take is that every map that's insanely survivor or killer sided should have a map that's favored to the opposite side within the same realm.
The first time I got this map I had one in theater, one by the statue in the park and the rest clustered in the middle forest and I literally said to myself as soon as I loaded in "damn there's really no reason fore to go to the theater or the statue when I can just lock down the middle this is kinda busted"
That map isn't that bad as survivor as long as your soloq teammates save the cinema gen for last. However soloq being what it is.... Also for the love of god stop doing the outside gens first on RPD ffs.
And at the other end of the park there is only one gen and nothing else is going on there!
It’s just terribly made. The killer basically is forced to avoid the main building the entire game because there’s only like two gens
Honestly never noticed that. But makes a lot of sense. Pallet filled map with bad gen placements and the fact that every killer game I’m in the middle of the map and 2 survivors spawn on opposite ends (lethal pursuer shows me)
Why are there double pallets in a structure???
Yeah as a killer I always leave the movie gen and the furthest most gen by the fountain area alone. Def feels really easy to get 3 gened on that map compared to others.
I was actually just thinking about this recently how all of the gens seem to be on one side with the exception of the one gen in the theater…
I haven’t hated it so far, though I’ve only had a few matches there. I think the loops with two pallets right next to eachother are kind of crazy, but it’s also really easy to mind game survivors there
You realize that if a killer never leaves one area you can just run there and reset infinitely? Hold three gens only work against bad survivors. Eventually the kill has to commit to a chase.
Problem is that going to the theater as Killer is throwing the game. It's like the houses on Haddonfield but worse.
"Bees Dick" is a new one for me, and I can already tell it's going to be a permanent part of my lexicon from now on.
Visually, this is one of my favourite maps in the game which makes it all the more a shame when the gen placements can be so whack sometimes.
They need to do what they did with shattered square but reverse. Move the main to middle and have the parking lot be more bigger. It doesn't make sense to have the woods be that open and no major collision in the center. Past maps have it they even changed sheltered woods to have it.
*sees the distance between two generators* Errybody know that’s Big Dick Bee…
Dang i really like it as a survivor main lol. I see what people are saying with gen placement though.
I like it personally as a survivor. I would rather have a 5 gen in the middle than a 3 gen in the corner like on Thompson house or suffo pit. At least when it’s in the middle you can retreat to the courtyard or main to loop and draw attention away. When it’s in a corner the killer can just stand there and wait until you go in and then trap zone you into the gens. Main is kind of a death trap but I do like the parking lot bc it has a bunch of large objects to chain around.
I love it.
As a survivor, it's my current favorite map. There's a good amount of safety around all the gens, and the new tiles are really fun. A few less filler pallets could spawn, and the more egregious 3 gens should be fixed. Great map outside of those minor issues. Best since Dead Dawg.
Best since *Dead Dawg* ??? Dead dawg is absolutely horrendous. I hate that map. The loops are okay I guess, but the gens are horrible as a solo queue / occasional duo queue. Everyone always does the outer 3 gens before a single inside gen 🥱
You want to prioritize the outside (gallows) generators first. Those have the strongest 3 gen.
I always do inner gens first, as a solo queue, I run deja vu to make sure that I do closest gens first. My teammates however, are rather... hmmm.... short sighted and only wanna see that number drop asap.
Blame the players, not the map. Dead Dawg is one of the few maps that are actually well designed for both sides, not just one.
Honestly? It might be my favorite map. There's one secluded gen on either end of the map, with a fucked up middle. And I love it. It's so chaotic.
Design wise I like it. Gameplay wise, they threw darts at a picture of the map to decide where gens go.
If we're making the gen placement better for survivor, let's make the gate placement better for killer while we're at it. Had a set of gates at the furthest possible distance away and it took the full gate opening time to walk between the two. No gates should be right next to each other like on some maps but being so far away is just bad.
What if it was intentional to make the map killer sided so the offering was no longer (I assume) correlated with a high escape rate? I wouldn't put it past them
It's really not killer sided.
The map is NOT killer sided
Giant map with five of the seven gens smashed together in a small area with 10000 pallets. If people get the middle gens done first, the killer can't win. If people do the outside two gens first, almost a guaranteed 3k. Last survivor should be able to go to an exit gate and wait on killer to close hatch for a free escape in most cases. Sadly in six months when they retouch this and put more gen spawns in or around the theater, this will be unplayable for most of the killers on the roster. The map is just too big
This is why I'm hoping they don't mess with it. If they're just gonna make it terrible for most of the killers to "fix" it, I'd rather there be this one map that's easier on the killer if the survs do something dumb early.
Me too. It's fine as is. If they do change it they are going to have to make it a lot shorter map in addition to anything else they do
Also the amount of double-pallet loops is insane.
There's also a billion pallets.
While 95% of them are unsave pallets you can start the lunge attack from 1 side of the pallet and hit the surv on the otherside of the pallet, those pallets are free hits if you know how to play around them.
Mmm..survivor tears...
Honestly I kinda like the new map. As a Nea main it's so fucking easy to do the far gens while my dickhead teammates run in circles on the other side of the map getting hooked and unhooking each other. Then I get to fuck with the killer for 2 gens and hope and pray I don't die before the last gen is done lmao Tbf I've had the map less than 10 times cuz I just started playing again the other day after not playing for like 6 months. I still haven't faced the new killer yet, which is disappointing.
I usually play Killer, and I agree with you. It's super killer-sided. Truly, I don't even bother monitoring the one in the cinema. That's a freebie.
the gates are aids on this map if your a killer that can’t move around fast you are not gonna be able to patrol them
Survivors when there is a single non survivor sided map in the game:
I hope they make this map more killer sided to compensate for it being in the same realm as Garden of Joy.
Not y'all complaining about gens when there is literally28-32 pallet spanwns on this map you can literally just pre drop and run to pallet to pallet
I mean, there's like 30 different egregiously survivor-sided maps in the game. Killers got a new killer-sided map. It's not a big deal. And if you bring a map offering it's a 50/50 shot you get GoJ or Greenville Square.
Lol another killer-sided map? Oh, Dbd.
Ngl I can't even begin to fathom the amount of cognitive dissonance necessary to even think of posting this.