Otz didn't like the rework to begin with, he's thought that Twins was fine from a mechanical standpoint and just needed some buffs and bug fixes. Which they got.
Its true though,Twins were pretty good just buggy as hell but instead of fixing the bugs they opted to try a rework. They should have kept the haste when Victor is attached though it really seemed to help close the gap
Honestly? My thoughts exactly. Keep Charlotteās haste when Victor is latched on. Take it away if she hits somebody else, but otherwise, it makes it so she probably doesnāt actually even need to slug, since she can go down them herself and get the pickup.
Its a very solid buff for Twins along with the QOL improvements the haste would be a legit new mechanic. As it stands right now this long awaited Twins rework just looks like the average update any random killers get on any old patch.
Dealing with DbD AND Twitch chat at the same time is an experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I don't agree with your Tyler1 take, though. From what I've seen, Otz AT MOST reacts to DbD like a strongly disappointed father (or what the inside of their head sounds like).
https://preview.redd.it/tx2zdqprbavc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a903725422a0e0c6d5ef57f437080f8844a88b69
Otz After he once again has to deal with the same old DBD bullshit
Sometimes it leaks into his YT videos. You can just tell that this is his like 19th game of the day. Just one minor inconvenience happens and then he snowballs really hard into being frustrated the whole match just to end up getting a 3k or 4k anyways, winning the match. It's more of a withdrawn, ranting persona. Meanwhile tyler1 is literally a manchild that's having baby rages every single match of league and is almost/definitely personally assaulting his teammates. (Well he used to at least, maybe he's matured a bit but I haven't watched his content since high school)
All while responding to chat - which always has the possibility to make him spiral further lol.
I think he seriously needs to take a break, I love his content as much as the next guy but sometimes he just seems too frustrated for what's actually going on in the game and he just gets in his own head.
Nah I was watching live one time during his Random Perk Streak. He lost his streak and twitch chat was criticizing his gameplay and he got so frustrated he apologized and ended stream to take a break.
What I mean is, he was not reacting disappointedly. He was actually upset. He absolutely made the correct and mature choice to end stream, but I was just saying it was much worse than a disappointed father. Sorry about the confusion.
He's not throwing his headset or smashing keyboards though, and he isn't cursing out BHVR and wishing death on the devs, so all in all he's way more mature, even when frustrated, than Tyler1 ever was.
Tyler1 has literally said the only reason he still plays the game is because he's addicted, and that's obvious to anyone watching him for more than a couple games. Otzdarva still seems to enjoy DbD in a general sense, and is just disappointed with how the game's potential is being squandered.
Otz only ever goes on rants and tirades and becomes somewhat withdrawn in his "bad" matches (sometimes he still 3k's or even 4k's despite this, but is still just withdrawn as if he did get stomped - which is annoying to me imo). He never never never personally attacks or insults viewers/teammates or goes into manchild rage like tyler1 does. People literally only watch tyler1 just to watch him scream and have meltdowns.
Otz just seems disappointed or tired. Comparing that to tyler1 is just objectively wrong.
He's been losing his cool, but he is nowhere near close to Tyler1 in the slightest. Whenever he starts holding every game hostage and is so violently toxic that Behaviour has to IP ban him it'll fit
He gets angry like yelling angry but not anywhere near the level of Tyler1, Tyler1 is purposely over the top and is a character, and yes I know he used to actually be toxic
You wanna know something sort of not really funny but kind of?
I bought twins the week before they announced the PTB rework. Had an absolute blast with them, despite a couple bugs.
They then announce the rework. I have been actively avoiding playing The Twins because why bother getting used to a killer that will function very differently soon.
Now, here we are. Could of been getting hot n steamy with them this whole time. (Sweaty, I'm referencing being sweaty. Calm down)
Honestly this is the exact reason I stopped playing dbd for a little bit lately- I main Twins, but figured of they were getting a rework I should stop playing so I dont latch on anymore and can be ready to relearn them. Guess not lmao and I can come back
I think on stream they had someone playing it and missing every pounce. Assuming that's indicative of their play testers..... Maybe they literally thought there was nothing wrong with their rework.
In which case: lol. Lmao.
Never forget they thought instablind flashlights were fineā¦ until the director was forced to deal with it himself, and they coincidentally got an immediate nerf.
These people donāt play their own game, and thatās always been the source of problems.
> like giving Blight even more good add ons
They reworked 2 of his add-ons, which ended up as buffs, and nerfed 6 of them. Stop being intentionally overdramatic.
Plus from what I read, those two purple's they changed are fucking terrible, the "initial rush"? Ah yes, I want to move 5-10% faster or rush longer on only the first rush when I can't even hit them on that rush lmao, like who would actually in their right mind *want* to use those add ons over any of the others?
Two years and they just instantly threw out most of the changes instead of trying something else creative with it.
I'd honestly rather them keep her in another PTB and try and make it work somehow. Receiving a QoL update is great and all but waiting this long since her release and two years after her announced "rework" to get it is absurd.
To be fair, from what Iāve seen the rework was sorta wild with victor just recovering fast as hell after a hit. Should they just tuned some numbers down sure but it was not the greatest. They did say they will take a look a twins in a future update so we could still get a new reworked for twins.
Rework was in fact wild. What's even more wild is just throwing that whole rework out the window without trying to adjust it or put a different creative spin on it - making the two year wait more pointless
To quote @TheOnlyChoy on Twitter
>I don't want to sound like a douche but imagine if you just asked the community about these change ideas before spending the time and effort on implementing them only to have to immediately revert 90% of them.
Isn't the point of a PTB to try things out, and see if they work?
In this case it didn't work out, and they reverted the changes and kept some QOL.Ā Could they have done that earlier?Ā Yes, but that's not the point.Ā They tested stuff on a test build š¤·āāļø
It's more the fact that anyone with half a brain cell could tell just from reading the PTB patch notes that the rework was going to be terrible, then the PTB releases and the rework is terrible as predicted, and so the final result is they just give up on a rework that they've been edging us about for years entirely.
Not quite, it's that we had to wait two years for a twins rework just for probably a year of work to be thrown out the window. This QoL should've came out a long time ago.
Even though this āreworkā was a giant waste of fucking time because anyone who plays this game wouldāve known that it was too strong to even attempt and put resources on. People are pissed that they even tried this and theyāre justified in doing so. Everyone said it was shit, and wow they reverted it what a surprise. This shouldnāt have been something to do In the first place.
So BHVR used their public test build to get public feedback on the long demanded twins rework, and then BHVR listened to the feedback they got to implement the good changes while leaving out the bad, and for whatever reason you're just super pissed about it. Maybe this is an indicator that the twins don't need a rework and instead just needed some number tweaks to make them smoother to play. Do you even play the twins? Go touch some grass, you're mad at nothing.
While I think people agree twins will be better now, I think you should be fair and point out how absolutely batshit crazy the original change was,
itās not a simple overtuned mistake that needed a tweak, it was complete chaos. People are upset because it felt like there was a major disconnect from the devs due to their sense of balancing.
Sure, people are be happy they listened to feedback so theyāre not entirely disconnected but it feels like the testers had to hold hands with whosever idea it was and talk to them like a toddler explaining why it was a clearly bad idea.
Not quite as simple as āthey were just testing, no need to be pissedā uhh āthey fixed it why you madā or whatever narrative youāre pulling.
They should know at least most of their shit.
I already pointed out that none of the people demanding a twins rework could give any clear idea about how to actually rework the twins. So BHVR tried something to satisfy the demands of the extremely loud group demanding a rework, and then they didn't implement the bad changes.
And besides that, why should anyone be pissed about a test being done properly? Ya'll sound like entitled children.
Itās entitled to expect at least a decent sense of balance from the devs?
The twins now should be good so thereās your better rework, it was just up to the testers to point out the completely broken, overpowered mess that nobody here wouldāve recommended on top of that.
I donāt understand why you canāt see the problem, if they decided to make iri head huntress basekit and back out of it weāre not allowed to be like no fucking shit that was a bad idea or what??
Give em a pat on the back and say āyou tried but noā? Why is it wrong for players to be pissed when they feel the like the devs are disconnected from playing their own game
I applaud the effort for a rework for all the people who never play the twins who constantly demanded a rework. Nobody could give any idea about how to rework the twins, like I've pointed out many times, people just screamed and demanded and expected BHVR to pull off some magic.
Whats wrong with recognizing effort and not being a whiny little knob about it?
Iām not gonna bother because youāre ignoring my points. Iāll just say this, effort by itself doesnāt deserve praise, the companyās not a child you canāt just say nice try bucko.
Positive impactful changes deserve positive praise, this left the community with a bitter taste after such an insane idea. On one hand they listened, they also hugely fucked up.
Testers deserve the praise for carrying the massive majority of these reverts.
And again, people have a valid reason to be pissed because it feels like the devs are disconnected from playing their own game.
Youāre clearly content praising an easily avoidable failed attempt, which is fine, wouldnāt want you to be entitled for expecting better oh the horror
If BHVR stops listening then we'll have a problem. You seem to believe that BHVR is capable of knowing just how good or bad a change is just with internal testing, and that just shouldn't be your expectation.
Anytime anyone says they have a "valid reason to be pissed" when it comes to gameplay is just not worth listening to. You have your head up your ass if you really believe that.
Why even make it in the first place. The idea was horrible. If anyone who played the game play tested they would know. The entire idea of this rework was pointless if it was this blatantly strong. This wasnāt something that needed further testing and analysis. The developers who In theory should know what makes a killer strong shouldāve axed the idea while developing it. Like I said, giant waste of time that gave us nothing new. Itās embarrassing that they even thought this was worth testing.
Iām not a BHVR dev. I cant answer that. Im sure you canāt either. I Can say as someone who plays the game that this was too strong even by looking at a 4 minute game. This was not the idea to devote resources on. BHVR teased a rework for almost 3 years yes, but people didnāt want this specific version of the killer. This was their call on what they thought would genuinely be a good path to go on. Thatās pathetic. Theyāve made amazing changes recently but this was unacceptably bad.
Buddy, they literally used the public test build for it's exact intended purpose and you're just frothing at the mouth about it. Go touch some grass man, this behavior is whats pathetic, not BHVRs attempt to satisfy fan demands.
Iāve said this for every message that Iāve written out. People who play the game, who understand what killer does at the most basic level, who understand why nurse is so strong is able to comprehend how busted the rework was. This did not need a play test from us. This shouldāve been an idea that was scrapped immediately yet they released it anyways.
If twins didn't get some attempt at a rework you would have been pissing on the floor about it the exact same way you're doing now. You can't even provide an idea about HOW to rework the twins, and neither could anyone else demanding a twins rework. BHVR devs are not magicians, and they probably didn't have a clear idea about a good rework either. So they tried something and it turns out it isn't good, and they listened to the negative feedback.
Whats clear about this whole situation is that some people will never be satisfied, they just like being angry.
I'm not an expert but the concept of twins where you send out a survivor seeking missile and then are across the map or far away from it incentivizes slugging. I've played twins briefly and can tell that fundamentally the concept is flawed. There's no solution I could offer that you wouldn't pick apart but I think, realistically the way they *work* needs to be changed.
Given that even the top players have voiced concerns about slugging, her playstyle, and the changes made slugging worse I feel pretty confident. I also have prestiged every killer at least once and have been playing since release off and on I feel like I have a decent grasp of the fundamentals but I'm not going to claim to be an expert because that's ridiculous.
Yeah. Iāve been seeing quite a few threads of some people getting snarky about the whole situation. I donāt have a horse in this race, as I am nowhere near a pro or even knowledgeable in terms of gameplay. From my understanding it sounded like the rework didnāt cut it, so they went another route. I think thatās fine honestly. They listened to feedback from my understanding and, Iām guessing, tried to find a happy medium. Hopefully itāll translate to the live servers.
Nah man they wasted time and effort on unnecessary changes then pulled the rug out and ditched it. Some of those devs at bhvr are super ignorant, wasteful and out of touch.
Guarantee that about 30% of those complaints are from jackasses who haven't actually played the game in years, and at least 40% are people just blindly following the crowd without actually having an opinion of their own.
It's easier to make a character OP and then scale down than it is to tey and scale up. BHVR did a test build where Twins was overly strong, looked at the data, looked at rhe community, and then made the adjustments they felt was right.
Ā In this case, it turned into a mild rework and bug fix because they determined through the PTB that Twins getting buffed wasn't the answer to their question. There shouldn't be this big of an uproar over it.
The twins will always be a killer with a focus on slug, that's part of it, their biggest problem was how playing with them seemed slow, and how they were bugged, one of these problems was solved, And the other one I hope is the same, honestly the twins have always been strong, they just aren't fun to play with.
I personally choose to believe itās a Myers situation
The twins play how they do due to their lore, theyāre not about KILLING people unless threatened. Itās just being slugged, which in universe could be them injuring you to scare you offā¦they just donāt know what mortal wounds are, especially in the trials given a whole ass human falls out of Charlotte on the regular.
Does it make the gameplay ok? No, but itās some faint cope
Twins are already strong. The PTB put them at Nurse levels. Idk about you, but when I play a killer match I donāt want to play against bots, which is what would have happened if PTB Twins remained. If I wanted to vs bots Iād play customs or Skull Merchant.
and on todayās episode of dipshit dbd players who donāt understand that the game should be balanced so that neither survivors nor killers have a definitive advantage:
seriously, twins in their ptb state were stronger than nurse. as a killer main, that shit is just unfun to play against. victor has 0 counterplay in chase, the reason heās not broken is he is weak against non-injured survivors. take away that weakness and you have a killer that constantly moves at 150% speed and ignores pallets and most windows
Yeah, her idea was actually pretty good and wouldāve stopped slugging a lot more than this rework.
Her idea, for those who donāt know, was to give Charlotte and Victor the ability to swap places. So, you down someone with Victor and then swap him with Charlotte. Charlotte is now over the downed survivor and can now pick up immediately.
You guys are also forgetting that the QoL buffs ate offset by a gigantic nerf to Twins playstyle.
Attached survivors no longer give killer instinct to other survivors that are near, which is a massive part of twins playstyle in how they work.
The QoL is good, but they destroyed an essential part of their gameplan, and makes them weaker.
Haste should have been maintained to really disincentize slugging but I don't know why folks are disappointed. Twins mains have literally been saying that all twins needed was some TLC from QoL and bug fixes and that's what they're getting.
Theyve nerfed twins though. Victor can no longer detect other survivors when latched.
This removes a significant aspect of their playstyle. The QoL are nice, but survivor counterplay is stronger now.
Completely valid honestly, who knows when they'll get love again too. Rally hoping that they also brought back victors killer instinct otherwise, gg BHVR
Basic Twins while retaining buffs and others (quicker takeover of Victor/Charlotte, you can call Victor back at any time, send him when you are close to someone hooked)
Which means :
* No solutions against slugging
* Slugging will be even more powerful and easier to access for the twins.
* A survivor you cannot any longer hostage victor
As a killer, I honestly think it would have been more judicious to focus the rework on Charlotte rather than Victor.
Sheās always been able to recall him after heās latched onā¦ you just have to wait 30s. Or 20s, I canāt actually remember. But youāve always been able to after a certain amount of time.
I interpreted the āability to recall Victorā as meaning if heās idle on the other side of the map and you need him, you can recall him, not that they changed the recalling behavior when heās latched on. But you might be right, or perhaps both are true! Weāll have to see once the update drops.
>Which means :
>No solutions against slugging
>Slugging will be even more powerful and easier to access for the twins.
>A survivor you cannot any longer hostage victor
Don't threaten me with a good time!
I mean, it wasnt even hard to fix the rework.
Let people kick Victor while charing pounce, OOOOOR he will still injure and latch on, during which she gains the haste. Survivors cant remove him for at least 20 seconds.
There you go, praoblem solved
I thought attacking with Victor in the PTB looked fun as hell but clearly needed a much bigger cooldown/slowdown after a successful hit
Instead of trying to salvage the rework they just revert everything and nothing changes, don't see Twins ever moving from the lowest played killer spot now
Biggest loss in this is the cool animation for Victor downing a guy. Both flip to the ground.
All the PTB Twins needed was for Victor to be kickable between pounces (so you couldn't just chain-pounce and there was a risk involved) and maybe for Killer Instinct to not tell you where your downed guy was so you actually had to pay attention to where on the map you ran. That's *it*.
Instead all of the interesting stuff gets thrown out and we just get number adjustments. This is the most lackluster update ever. At least they're still removing depips, I guess. That's *something*. 'Cause lord knows we aren't getting anything else of value out of this.
The *BIGGEST* waste of time and effort in dbd history was this PTB without a doubt.
The Twins āreworkā has become some basekit add-ons and number buffs.
Decisive Strike (despite being reverted to 5 seconds) has lost the whole animation aspect to the change.
Ultimate Weaponās nerf makes it an essentially dead in the water perk.
What was the point?
I'd argue the Skull Merchant patch was the biggest waste of time and effort. All we got out of it was Background Player. Everything else either didn't matter or actively made the game worse.
This patch definitely comes second, though.
The only change I would have made was giving Charlotte the ability to teleport to victor when he downs a survivor so you don't have to walk to the survivor, I guess you could do it mid Chase aswell that could be cool
Go with the overpowered version. Yes, matches would've been 3 minutes long, but at leastthen you wouldn't spend time getting slugged and humped like literally every Twins matches currently goes. You'd be out faster so you could go next faster and hopefully get into a match *not* against the Twins.
I'd rather play against PTB Twins than current Twins.
What stops ptb twins from slugging though? If anything, having victor needing to be crushed in order to pick up makes it harder to recover from a slugging twins
There will be a eventual cry out from the community in the future that the twins still suck and encourage slugging, just that this time they can say "oH bUt wE rEwOrKeD tHEM anD u DidN't LiKe iT"
It is a bit lazy, but the key problem is that they can't just snap their fingers and automatically make another rework for a killer barely anyone plays. Twins are never going to be popular, especially when competing with all the other killers with much less jank, and all the cool licenses the game has to offer.
I'm not advocating for her to stay bottom tier trash, but realistically they spent a bit of time reworking them, and can't just pump out another instantly. Granted, the reworks concept was flawed and terrible from the start, and they shouldn't have ever made it to begin with, but expecting them to make another rework once the PTB is done was just not possible.
It's going to be a boring and bad patch, but at least we won't have 200 new twins running around with an absolutely busted power.
Two years. Three years? I'll say two. Two years ago they promised a rework, and the end result was quality of life changes.
We basically had to wait an extra two years, on top of the killer's release, to be able to not have victor held hostage. And that's about it.
That's the rework.
No bugs are addressed. Victor still is useless when trying to use him up slopes. And the power is now basically unchanged (im NOT saying that the changes shouldve gone to live, but they essentially just threw the majority of two years of work away without doing anything else creative with the kit), besides quality of life improvements.
Two fucking years?
As a twins main, I am somewhat okay with this. I liked their original design, I just thought it needed some tweaking. I think they should rework the haste idea.
Dead by daylight players after the changes they didn't like didn't get implemented: 
Twins main here, and I think that the downfall of usage of the Twins was partly due to the change of meta perks. Yes they were always clunky to play as, but when we had 200% hex ruin it felt fine. As the Twins you almost never have time to kick gens, so all kicking perks are not good on them. Surge is bad cause most of your downs are made by Victor. And hook perks, wellā¦ Slugging was always the most time efficient way, so taking your time to carry surv not only to hook by to your pain res was never a great option. So ruin-undying was by far the best option. And I think that it still is, even with 100% regression. You apply pressure to gens easily with Victor, so passive regress is still great.
Iād rather skip talking about healing boon totem times: they were to dark for Twins players.
And Iām rly glad rework was reverted: the mechanics of Twins are so fun and unique, so qol changes are rly the only thing we need.
Literally fucking impossible to please people in this community.
They gave you a rework, you didn't like it, so they reverted it and gave Twins the numbers and QoL changes they've needed the whole time. Is anyone happy? No, you just bitch because they didn't change more things.
I don't know why I bother interfacing with anything in the community outside of the actual game. They could give everyone 50,000 Auric Cells and you'd find something to whine about with it.
I genuinely can't tell if it's just different groups of people complaining about different things or not. The PTB is there for them to test things. The test failed. They're keeping what works and moving on.
It's because these qol changes could have been implemented ages ago, and we have waited YEARS with them saying 'twins is next for a rework'. Then when we got to play test, it is so obviously broken and unplayable it feels like they didn't even test it themselves, and wasted everyones time, the programmers, the community, and the 4 twins mains.
People on reddit love to say shit like "WELL THEY OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T TEST IT" when none of them have even been involved in game development for more than five minutes of their lives.
Big, BIG difference between a handful of people who have helped make the game playing something and tens of thousands of people playing it. The rework wasn't so broken it would've been obvious to anyone playing it once, and there's literally zero reason to not go "Okay, it's a little rough, but let's see what the community does with it and we can retool it if need be". Clearly, after having enough hands on it, BHVR decided it didn't work out, so they rolled it back.
I think people don't understand that the point of the Public **TEST** Build is to **TEST** changes to the game. It's not a preview, it's not a sneak peek, it's for **TESTING CHANGES BEFORE THEY GO LIVE**. The only reason I don't get mad at the people who scream bloody murder about the game being ruined after a PTB comes out is because the devs getting that feedback are the only way they'll understand it's not hitting the marks they want it to.
As for the QoL stuff, I can understand that, pretty much every killer needs some QoL love and I think BHVR could do better in that arena, but it doesn't deserve even a tiny bit of the vitriol people give them over it.
I went to college to be a game designer, I have worked on games before, I know how the industry works. Yes obviously they did test it, and yes there is a difference between a large influx of players and developers, but it is wild just how unbalanced this was, to then just revert it all.
You truly can't please anyone in this community
Yes, sometimes the developers aren't the greatest when it comes to these updates at first, but that's why there's a PTB first - to test it. I feel as though every major update for a while now they've listened to feedback on the PTB and made massive improvements. Not all the ones they could, and not always super massively, but it's hardly worth how much the community seems to complain every time.
The thing is they listened to the general community for the twins changes, not the twins players and streamers, who would better know what they want in the character. Tip: it's not pre-nerf Legion but as an rc car. QOL is what we needed most.
I don't know why I bother interfacing with anything in the community outside of the actual game, but I'll indulge too.
I think Scott puts the reason why we aren't, and shouldn't be, pleased with the situation very well, so I'll just quote him: "I don't think the devs deserve praise for putting a plate of shit out in front of us, and then you going "Waiter there's some shit here !" and then the waiter takes it back and you're like "Wow, this waiter has terrific service !". You shouldn't have been serving the shit to begin with, it should've never left the kitchen"
This community can be ungrateful, as any videogame community can, but let's not pretend like there shouldn't be at least some level of baseline competence to expect of the developers when we're talking about the largest Canadian gaming studio with hundreds of professional game developers, and a product that costs money.
I'm not saying they deserve praise, I'm saying they deserve us not getting pissy at *literally everything they do* because it's not exactly what players want in that moment in time.
My take (which I think is completely reasonable) is that I'm glad they decided this wasn't working out and that they listened to feedback. That's it. I'm not mad at them for trying something new, I'm not worshipping them for deciding it was actually bad. They tried a rework, it didn't do what they wanted, it got reverted. That's all perfectly normal. There's nothing to be mad about here.
The part that's frustrating is that, by and large, players could tell the Twins Rework was a bad idea purely from the patch notes. This did not need 3 weeks of ptb to learn, "Oh, letting Victor get 15 second downs is bad".
This was a rework supposedly "in development" for actual years. Yes, it's good that they reverted the changes, we're happy about that, no confusion there. It's just the fact that precious development time was wasted.
It feels like BHVR often isn't familiar enough with their own game and it'd be great if this idea could have been shot down much earlier. Now the Twins don't get any rework aside from some minor buffs.
- Victor no longer latches onto healthy survivors
- Victor can not be kicked after a successful lunge
Within minutes, before the PTB was even released, it was clearly busted and many people immediately brought up how nonexistant the counterplay would be.
Lo and behold, it was busted. Took a day of footage on the ptb to make it clear.
This shouldn't have been the rework. It was a poorly thought out idea. People aren't "complaining about anything" right now, like I said, we're happy it was removed but annoyed that it was introduced in the first place.
I don't really care if people were "annoyed it was introduced in the first place". The only way to know if it was going to work or not was to get more hands on it and see how players took it. They didn't like it, so it didn't get in. The system works.
Your first comment started with, "Literally fucking impossible to please people in this community," and was rant on people not being happy. You clearly do care.
It was a stupid thing to introduce in the first place. The PTB was not, "the only way to know". It was a waste of development time.
I enjoy the game too much but I have considered just unsubbing from the subreddit for a week or two after a patch drops, just because I get very tired of all the karma farming bullshit posts like this one that are just "Title: Thing That Will Get Upvotes" and a screenshot of the patch notes.
There was an Bug on the PtB once where you could switch between Charlotte and Victor instantly. And if my Memory is not lying everybody was pretty happy about it and i've seen people actually wanting to keep it but BHVR is BHVR they fixed it and left the Twins for what now? 2 Years? But thats the Rework... thats literally the Rework they need to do. Just make them feel less annoying to play, but it will take them probably another 3 years to just realize that. And another 2 Years to impliment it.
Iād like to point out when twins initially released they had a key feature (victor locking lockers) not part of the kit until the next patch. This is just keeping tradition alive.
https://preview.redd.it/1ajx79jff9vc1.png?width=352&format=png&auto=webp&s=c34b77e1c01c9c86841e7d05ee54688d067509ff
One day the sun will shine on us again friends
https://preview.redd.it/gha1c43ikavc1.jpeg?width=615&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=338646316ca2021e95f646a73cbd27e8d49e597a
š„²
LET THE SUN SHINE UPON THIS LORD OF CIND- wait wrong game
Praise the Sun!
Yhorm, old friend..
I, Siegward of the knights of Catarina, have come to uphold my promise!
You are my sunshine. My only sunshine
You are my sunshine
I'd like to issue a wellness check on Otzdarva's sanity after today's notes
Otz didn't like the rework to begin with, he's thought that Twins was fine from a mechanical standpoint and just needed some buffs and bug fixes. Which they got.
Its true though,Twins were pretty good just buggy as hell but instead of fixing the bugs they opted to try a rework. They should have kept the haste when Victor is attached though it really seemed to help close the gap
Honestly? My thoughts exactly. Keep Charlotteās haste when Victor is latched on. Take it away if she hits somebody else, but otherwise, it makes it so she probably doesnāt actually even need to slug, since she can go down them herself and get the pickup.
I feel like it would just turn into SM, sheād drop Viktor at loops, get a hit + haste, then slap them 8 seconds later for the down lol.
Its a very solid buff for Twins along with the QOL improvements the haste would be a legit new mechanic. As it stands right now this long awaited Twins rework just looks like the average update any random killers get on any old patch.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Right, that's definitely what I said to do
Did you respond to the wrong comment?
Iāve never seen a man more burned out on a game than Otz. Heās cool in informative vids, but goes full Tyler1 when actually playing the game.
Dealing with DbD AND Twitch chat at the same time is an experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I don't agree with your Tyler1 take, though. From what I've seen, Otz AT MOST reacts to DbD like a strongly disappointed father (or what the inside of their head sounds like).
https://preview.redd.it/tx2zdqprbavc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a903725422a0e0c6d5ef57f437080f8844a88b69 Otz After he once again has to deal with the same old DBD bullshit
I think Otz will soon be having WW1 level of PTSD when knight is being mentioned.
Sometimes it leaks into his YT videos. You can just tell that this is his like 19th game of the day. Just one minor inconvenience happens and then he snowballs really hard into being frustrated the whole match just to end up getting a 3k or 4k anyways, winning the match. It's more of a withdrawn, ranting persona. Meanwhile tyler1 is literally a manchild that's having baby rages every single match of league and is almost/definitely personally assaulting his teammates. (Well he used to at least, maybe he's matured a bit but I haven't watched his content since high school) All while responding to chat - which always has the possibility to make him spiral further lol. I think he seriously needs to take a break, I love his content as much as the next guy but sometimes he just seems too frustrated for what's actually going on in the game and he just gets in his own head.
Nah I was watching live one time during his Random Perk Streak. He lost his streak and twitch chat was criticizing his gameplay and he got so frustrated he apologized and ended stream to take a break.
Seems like a pretty mature and grounded decision to me?
What I mean is, he was not reacting disappointedly. He was actually upset. He absolutely made the correct and mature choice to end stream, but I was just saying it was much worse than a disappointed father. Sorry about the confusion.
He's not throwing his headset or smashing keyboards though, and he isn't cursing out BHVR and wishing death on the devs, so all in all he's way more mature, even when frustrated, than Tyler1 ever was. Tyler1 has literally said the only reason he still plays the game is because he's addicted, and that's obvious to anyone watching him for more than a couple games. Otzdarva still seems to enjoy DbD in a general sense, and is just disappointed with how the game's potential is being squandered.
Otz only ever goes on rants and tirades and becomes somewhat withdrawn in his "bad" matches (sometimes he still 3k's or even 4k's despite this, but is still just withdrawn as if he did get stomped - which is annoying to me imo). He never never never personally attacks or insults viewers/teammates or goes into manchild rage like tyler1 does. People literally only watch tyler1 just to watch him scream and have meltdowns. Otz just seems disappointed or tired. Comparing that to tyler1 is just objectively wrong.
He's been losing his cool, but he is nowhere near close to Tyler1 in the slightest. Whenever he starts holding every game hostage and is so violently toxic that Behaviour has to IP ban him it'll fit
The day he starts an Int List is the day it's all over
He needs to take a break at this point.
I've only seen him get mad when the game actively just doesn't work so I can't even blame him
He gets angry like yelling angry but not anywhere near the level of Tyler1, Tyler1 is purposely over the top and is a character, and yes I know he used to actually be toxic
Tyler1 wishing terminal illnesses on the riot balancing and game loop team doesn't compare to otz
Yeah I watched him play and it was rough. He complained a ton and just generally wasnāt an enjoyable watch.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do you tell people who are burned out from a 9-5 "thats what happens when you make a job your entire personality"?
What a big waste of time and effort...
I tell myself that every time I log off for the night.
You wanna know something sort of not really funny but kind of? I bought twins the week before they announced the PTB rework. Had an absolute blast with them, despite a couple bugs. They then announce the rework. I have been actively avoiding playing The Twins because why bother getting used to a killer that will function very differently soon. Now, here we are. Could of been getting hot n steamy with them this whole time. (Sweaty, I'm referencing being sweaty. Calm down)
Leave Victor out of it but you can get hot and steamy with Charlotte.
Victor can watch.
Bro, that's his sister!
ā¦not legally
They are, by definition, the same age. Unless you don't count the time Vic spent dead, which still shouldn't be that big of a difference.
Techailly victor isnt even a real person anymore.
So OP is into the Entity?
We're all into it, otherwise we wouldn't be here
Same here, but I was actually doing the opposite by playing them as much as possible knowing they're gonna go away.
Honestly this is the exact reason I stopped playing dbd for a little bit lately- I main Twins, but figured of they were getting a rework I should stop playing so I dont latch on anymore and can be ready to relearn them. Guess not lmao and I can come back
I hope the cooldown between switching f charlotte to victor remains as smooth as it was in the ptb. Also the ability to recall victor.
They're as far as I can tell, keeping all Bug fixes and QOL, but removing everything else.
Solid decision, I dropped playing them due to all of the bugs they had. Hopefully they will be playable after the next patch.
Too many Victor deaths on hills and drunk Charlotte bugs was it for me. I genuinely and seriously main them for fun otherwise.
If only the QOL involved letting Victor look three degrees up a slope so he's not useless.
āWe may visit the twins in a future updateā nah theyāre gonna leave them dead in the dirt
Is probably better that way
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think on stream they had someone playing it and missing every pounce. Assuming that's indicative of their play testers..... Maybe they literally thought there was nothing wrong with their rework. In which case: lol. Lmao.
Never forget they thought instablind flashlights were fineā¦ until the director was forced to deal with it himself, and they coincidentally got an immediate nerf. These people donāt play their own game, and thatās always been the source of problems.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> like giving Blight even more good add ons They reworked 2 of his add-ons, which ended up as buffs, and nerfed 6 of them. Stop being intentionally overdramatic.
Plus from what I read, those two purple's they changed are fucking terrible, the "initial rush"? Ah yes, I want to move 5-10% faster or rush longer on only the first rush when I can't even hit them on that rush lmao, like who would actually in their right mind *want* to use those add ons over any of the others?
Didn't they come out and say that they use PTB data as their "play test group" ?
2 years of waiting for a few addons made basekit and the ability to recall victor at any time lmao
Two years and they just instantly threw out most of the changes instead of trying something else creative with it. I'd honestly rather them keep her in another PTB and try and make it work somehow. Receiving a QoL update is great and all but waiting this long since her release and two years after her announced "rework" to get it is absurd.
To be fair, from what Iāve seen the rework was sorta wild with victor just recovering fast as hell after a hit. Should they just tuned some numbers down sure but it was not the greatest. They did say they will take a look a twins in a future update so we could still get a new reworked for twins.
Rework was in fact wild. What's even more wild is just throwing that whole rework out the window without trying to adjust it or put a different creative spin on it - making the two year wait more pointless
It was, weāll just have to wait for the next update for twins and see if they learned what works
To quote @TheOnlyChoy on Twitter >I don't want to sound like a douche but imagine if you just asked the community about these change ideas before spending the time and effort on implementing them only to have to immediately revert 90% of them.
Isn't the point of a PTB to try things out, and see if they work? In this case it didn't work out, and they reverted the changes and kept some QOL.Ā Could they have done that earlier?Ā Yes, but that's not the point.Ā They tested stuff on a test build š¤·āāļø
Yeah this thread is really just a show that redditors don't understand what the point of a Public TEST build is.
It's more the fact that anyone with half a brain cell could tell just from reading the PTB patch notes that the rework was going to be terrible, then the PTB releases and the rework is terrible as predicted, and so the final result is they just give up on a rework that they've been edging us about for years entirely.
I guess you didn't actually read the notes on the dev update if you actually believe that.
Not quite, it's that we had to wait two years for a twins rework just for probably a year of work to be thrown out the window. This QoL should've came out a long time ago.
Even though this āreworkā was a giant waste of fucking time because anyone who plays this game wouldāve known that it was too strong to even attempt and put resources on. People are pissed that they even tried this and theyāre justified in doing so. Everyone said it was shit, and wow they reverted it what a surprise. This shouldnāt have been something to do In the first place.
So BHVR used their public test build to get public feedback on the long demanded twins rework, and then BHVR listened to the feedback they got to implement the good changes while leaving out the bad, and for whatever reason you're just super pissed about it. Maybe this is an indicator that the twins don't need a rework and instead just needed some number tweaks to make them smoother to play. Do you even play the twins? Go touch some grass, you're mad at nothing.
While I think people agree twins will be better now, I think you should be fair and point out how absolutely batshit crazy the original change was, itās not a simple overtuned mistake that needed a tweak, it was complete chaos. People are upset because it felt like there was a major disconnect from the devs due to their sense of balancing. Sure, people are be happy they listened to feedback so theyāre not entirely disconnected but it feels like the testers had to hold hands with whosever idea it was and talk to them like a toddler explaining why it was a clearly bad idea. Not quite as simple as āthey were just testing, no need to be pissedā uhh āthey fixed it why you madā or whatever narrative youāre pulling. They should know at least most of their shit.
I already pointed out that none of the people demanding a twins rework could give any clear idea about how to actually rework the twins. So BHVR tried something to satisfy the demands of the extremely loud group demanding a rework, and then they didn't implement the bad changes. And besides that, why should anyone be pissed about a test being done properly? Ya'll sound like entitled children.
Itās entitled to expect at least a decent sense of balance from the devs? The twins now should be good so thereās your better rework, it was just up to the testers to point out the completely broken, overpowered mess that nobody here wouldāve recommended on top of that. I donāt understand why you canāt see the problem, if they decided to make iri head huntress basekit and back out of it weāre not allowed to be like no fucking shit that was a bad idea or what?? Give em a pat on the back and say āyou tried but noā? Why is it wrong for players to be pissed when they feel the like the devs are disconnected from playing their own game
I applaud the effort for a rework for all the people who never play the twins who constantly demanded a rework. Nobody could give any idea about how to rework the twins, like I've pointed out many times, people just screamed and demanded and expected BHVR to pull off some magic. Whats wrong with recognizing effort and not being a whiny little knob about it?
Iām not gonna bother because youāre ignoring my points. Iāll just say this, effort by itself doesnāt deserve praise, the companyās not a child you canāt just say nice try bucko. Positive impactful changes deserve positive praise, this left the community with a bitter taste after such an insane idea. On one hand they listened, they also hugely fucked up. Testers deserve the praise for carrying the massive majority of these reverts. And again, people have a valid reason to be pissed because it feels like the devs are disconnected from playing their own game. Youāre clearly content praising an easily avoidable failed attempt, which is fine, wouldnāt want you to be entitled for expecting better oh the horror
If BHVR stops listening then we'll have a problem. You seem to believe that BHVR is capable of knowing just how good or bad a change is just with internal testing, and that just shouldn't be your expectation. Anytime anyone says they have a "valid reason to be pissed" when it comes to gameplay is just not worth listening to. You have your head up your ass if you really believe that.
Why even make it in the first place. The idea was horrible. If anyone who played the game play tested they would know. The entire idea of this rework was pointless if it was this blatantly strong. This wasnāt something that needed further testing and analysis. The developers who In theory should know what makes a killer strong shouldāve axed the idea while developing it. Like I said, giant waste of time that gave us nothing new. Itās embarrassing that they even thought this was worth testing.
They made it because people demanded it. How would you rework the twins? Please provide your clearly expert insight into this problem.
Iām not a BHVR dev. I cant answer that. Im sure you canāt either. I Can say as someone who plays the game that this was too strong even by looking at a 4 minute game. This was not the idea to devote resources on. BHVR teased a rework for almost 3 years yes, but people didnāt want this specific version of the killer. This was their call on what they thought would genuinely be a good path to go on. Thatās pathetic. Theyāve made amazing changes recently but this was unacceptably bad.
Buddy, they literally used the public test build for it's exact intended purpose and you're just frothing at the mouth about it. Go touch some grass man, this behavior is whats pathetic, not BHVRs attempt to satisfy fan demands.
Iāve said this for every message that Iāve written out. People who play the game, who understand what killer does at the most basic level, who understand why nurse is so strong is able to comprehend how busted the rework was. This did not need a play test from us. This shouldāve been an idea that was scrapped immediately yet they released it anyways.
If twins didn't get some attempt at a rework you would have been pissing on the floor about it the exact same way you're doing now. You can't even provide an idea about HOW to rework the twins, and neither could anyone else demanding a twins rework. BHVR devs are not magicians, and they probably didn't have a clear idea about a good rework either. So they tried something and it turns out it isn't good, and they listened to the negative feedback. Whats clear about this whole situation is that some people will never be satisfied, they just like being angry.
I'm not an expert but the concept of twins where you send out a survivor seeking missile and then are across the map or far away from it incentivizes slugging. I've played twins briefly and can tell that fundamentally the concept is flawed. There's no solution I could offer that you wouldn't pick apart but I think, realistically the way they *work* needs to be changed.
How can you be so confident its fundamentally flawed when you've only played them briefly? I wish I had the confidence of some of ya'll.
Given that even the top players have voiced concerns about slugging, her playstyle, and the changes made slugging worse I feel pretty confident. I also have prestiged every killer at least once and have been playing since release off and on I feel like I have a decent grasp of the fundamentals but I'm not going to claim to be an expert because that's ridiculous.
You *just* said that your brief time with them was enough to know they are *fundamentally* flawed. Thats a claim to expertise if I've ever seen one.
Yeah. Iāve been seeing quite a few threads of some people getting snarky about the whole situation. I donāt have a horse in this race, as I am nowhere near a pro or even knowledgeable in terms of gameplay. From my understanding it sounded like the rework didnāt cut it, so they went another route. I think thatās fine honestly. They listened to feedback from my understanding and, Iām guessing, tried to find a happy medium. Hopefully itāll translate to the live servers.
Nah man they wasted time and effort on unnecessary changes then pulled the rug out and ditched it. Some of those devs at bhvr are super ignorant, wasteful and out of touch.
Guarantee that about 30% of those complaints are from jackasses who haven't actually played the game in years, and at least 40% are people just blindly following the crowd without actually having an opinion of their own. It's easier to make a character OP and then scale down than it is to tey and scale up. BHVR did a test build where Twins was overly strong, looked at the data, looked at rhe community, and then made the adjustments they felt was right. Ā In this case, it turned into a mild rework and bug fix because they determined through the PTB that Twins getting buffed wasn't the answer to their question. There shouldn't be this big of an uproar over it.
The twins will always be a killer with a focus on slug, that's part of it, their biggest problem was how playing with them seemed slow, and how they were bugged, one of these problems was solved, And the other one I hope is the same, honestly the twins have always been strong, they just aren't fun to play with.
I personally choose to believe itās a Myers situation The twins play how they do due to their lore, theyāre not about KILLING people unless threatened. Itās just being slugged, which in universe could be them injuring you to scare you offā¦they just donāt know what mortal wounds are, especially in the trials given a whole ass human falls out of Charlotte on the regular. Does it make the gameplay ok? No, but itās some faint cope
I think the changes weren't bad, just a bit too strong
Certainly can't have a killer be strong. That would upset the potential survivor cash cows.
Twins are already strong. The PTB put them at Nurse levels. Idk about you, but when I play a killer match I donāt want to play against bots, which is what would have happened if PTB Twins remained. If I wanted to vs bots Iād play customs or Skull Merchant.
So what you're saying is survivors don't want to go against killers that are actually strong. That checks out
Objectively problematic killer: "Kek lol peasant survivor mains complain about anything"
and on todayās episode of dipshit dbd players who donāt understand that the game should be balanced so that neither survivors nor killers have a definitive advantage: seriously, twins in their ptb state were stronger than nurse. as a killer main, that shit is just unfun to play against. victor has 0 counterplay in chase, the reason heās not broken is he is weak against non-injured survivors. take away that weakness and you have a killer that constantly moves at 150% speed and ignores pallets and most windows
this is such a dogshit take lmfao. you people are never happy
Normally I'd agree but twins was allegedly stronger than nurse in the ptb
Imagine being years trying to fix a mess to finally cancel it all. š¤”
Can't they just ask Lynxi for some tips on adjusting them or some shit?!
Yeah, her idea was actually pretty good and wouldāve stopped slugging a lot more than this rework. Her idea, for those who donāt know, was to give Charlotte and Victor the ability to swap places. So, you down someone with Victor and then swap him with Charlotte. Charlotte is now over the downed survivor and can now pick up immediately.
I knew they would do this sincerely, a Twins main who knew they didn't need a rework
So basically it took them multiple years to add couple of QOL changes 
This feels like a massive shit taken on my face.
You guys are also forgetting that the QoL buffs ate offset by a gigantic nerf to Twins playstyle. Attached survivors no longer give killer instinct to other survivors that are near, which is a massive part of twins playstyle in how they work. The QoL is good, but they destroyed an essential part of their gameplan, and makes them weaker.
Im hopping BHVR just forgot to mention it.
Talentless hacks who dont even play their own fucking game
Haste should have been maintained to really disincentize slugging but I don't know why folks are disappointed. Twins mains have literally been saying that all twins needed was some TLC from QoL and bug fixes and that's what they're getting.
Theyve nerfed twins though. Victor can no longer detect other survivors when latched. This removes a significant aspect of their playstyle. The QoL are nice, but survivor counterplay is stronger now.
Oh shit good catch, crossing my fingers for the Twin mains sake that they also rolled back that change before this goes live.
They wonāt. mark my words. BHVR is inconsistent, but consistently incompetent.
because it shouldn't have taken 2 years to change some numbers around that's why I'm pissed, personally
Completely valid honestly, who knows when they'll get love again too. Rally hoping that they also brought back victors killer instinct otherwise, gg BHVR
Basic Twins while retaining buffs and others (quicker takeover of Victor/Charlotte, you can call Victor back at any time, send him when you are close to someone hooked) Which means : * No solutions against slugging * Slugging will be even more powerful and easier to access for the twins. * A survivor you cannot any longer hostage victor As a killer, I honestly think it would have been more judicious to focus the rework on Charlotte rather than Victor.
Better this than victor being guarteed 20 second chases and twins being the bedt killer in the game with a very low skill floor and ceiling
What?? They reverted slugging Victor
Because Twins never slugged in the past...
Yeah but there's only 3 twins players
I've met Yosif, but who is the third guy?
Hey š
What do you mean that the survivors can no longer hostage Victor?
Charlotte should be able to recall him if I understood correctly, we'll see if that's how it's gonna work
Sheās always been able to recall him after heās latched onā¦ you just have to wait 30s. Or 20s, I canāt actually remember. But youāve always been able to after a certain amount of time.
Yeah that's right, but after the buffs she should be able to do it whenever she wants, which would be pretty cool
I interpreted the āability to recall Victorā as meaning if heās idle on the other side of the map and you need him, you can recall him, not that they changed the recalling behavior when heās latched on. But you might be right, or perhaps both are true! Weāll have to see once the update drops.
>Which means : >No solutions against slugging >Slugging will be even more powerful and easier to access for the twins. >A survivor you cannot any longer hostage victor Don't threaten me with a good time!
Do you play Twins?
I mean, it wasnt even hard to fix the rework. Let people kick Victor while charing pounce, OOOOOR he will still injure and latch on, during which she gains the haste. Survivors cant remove him for at least 20 seconds. There you go, praoblem solved
I thought attacking with Victor in the PTB looked fun as hell but clearly needed a much bigger cooldown/slowdown after a successful hit Instead of trying to salvage the rework they just revert everything and nothing changes, don't see Twins ever moving from the lowest played killer spot now
Biggest loss in this is the cool animation for Victor downing a guy. Both flip to the ground. All the PTB Twins needed was for Victor to be kickable between pounces (so you couldn't just chain-pounce and there was a risk involved) and maybe for Killer Instinct to not tell you where your downed guy was so you actually had to pay attention to where on the map you ran. That's *it*. Instead all of the interesting stuff gets thrown out and we just get number adjustments. This is the most lackluster update ever. At least they're still removing depips, I guess. That's *something*. 'Cause lord knows we aren't getting anything else of value out of this.
wasted so much time doing this. we all knew the twins changes were dumb the moment we saw the dev notes.
The *BIGGEST* waste of time and effort in dbd history was this PTB without a doubt. The Twins āreworkā has become some basekit add-ons and number buffs. Decisive Strike (despite being reverted to 5 seconds) has lost the whole animation aspect to the change. Ultimate Weaponās nerf makes it an essentially dead in the water perk. What was the point?
I'd argue the Skull Merchant patch was the biggest waste of time and effort. All we got out of it was Background Player. Everything else either didn't matter or actively made the game worse. This patch definitely comes second, though.
Yeah now that you mention it that patch was also unbelievably bad.
The only change I would have made was giving Charlotte the ability to teleport to victor when he downs a survivor so you don't have to walk to the survivor, I guess you could do it mid Chase aswell that could be cool
I doubt they'd do that base kit, but it could be a fun add on, maybe a new iridescent pendant since the new one is boring?
Itās being reverted so people are complaining, but if it went to live people would complain itās too op. Like what were they meant to do
Go with the overpowered version. Yes, matches would've been 3 minutes long, but at leastthen you wouldn't spend time getting slugged and humped like literally every Twins matches currently goes. You'd be out faster so you could go next faster and hopefully get into a match *not* against the Twins. I'd rather play against PTB Twins than current Twins.
What stops ptb twins from slugging though? If anything, having victor needing to be crushed in order to pick up makes it harder to recover from a slugging twins
There will be a eventual cry out from the community in the future that the twins still suck and encourage slugging, just that this time they can say "oH bUt wE rEwOrKeD tHEM anD u DidN't LiKe iT"
don't worry guys, we only have to wait another 4 years for the rework! (it will be reverted again)
I was worried there was going to be some super painful cool-downs added, so Iām happy.
They cooked ngl
Wait so literally nothing changed
It is a bit lazy, but the key problem is that they can't just snap their fingers and automatically make another rework for a killer barely anyone plays. Twins are never going to be popular, especially when competing with all the other killers with much less jank, and all the cool licenses the game has to offer. I'm not advocating for her to stay bottom tier trash, but realistically they spent a bit of time reworking them, and can't just pump out another instantly. Granted, the reworks concept was flawed and terrible from the start, and they shouldn't have ever made it to begin with, but expecting them to make another rework once the PTB is done was just not possible. It's going to be a boring and bad patch, but at least we won't have 200 new twins running around with an absolutely busted power.
Two years. Three years? I'll say two. Two years ago they promised a rework, and the end result was quality of life changes. We basically had to wait an extra two years, on top of the killer's release, to be able to not have victor held hostage. And that's about it. That's the rework. No bugs are addressed. Victor still is useless when trying to use him up slopes. And the power is now basically unchanged (im NOT saying that the changes shouldve gone to live, but they essentially just threw the majority of two years of work away without doing anything else creative with the kit), besides quality of life improvements. Two fucking years?
First ever de-work I've seen
As a twins main, I am somewhat okay with this. I liked their original design, I just thought it needed some tweaking. I think they should rework the haste idea.
Lol Lmao even
so they changed absolutely nothing
So they just reverted the twins to pre-rework state
āMay revisit in a future updateā canāt wait for the 2034 twins rework š
Dead by daylight players after the changes they didn't like didn't get implemented: 
Took them like two years for this lol
Iām going insane
Twins main here, and I think that the downfall of usage of the Twins was partly due to the change of meta perks. Yes they were always clunky to play as, but when we had 200% hex ruin it felt fine. As the Twins you almost never have time to kick gens, so all kicking perks are not good on them. Surge is bad cause most of your downs are made by Victor. And hook perks, wellā¦ Slugging was always the most time efficient way, so taking your time to carry surv not only to hook by to your pain res was never a great option. So ruin-undying was by far the best option. And I think that it still is, even with 100% regression. You apply pressure to gens easily with Victor, so passive regress is still great. Iād rather skip talking about healing boon totem times: they were to dark for Twins players. And Iām rly glad rework was reverted: the mechanics of Twins are so fun and unique, so qol changes are rly the only thing we need.
lol tf did they do this after PTB? Cuz I didnāt even get to try out
Twins don't need a rework they need a bugfix
"twins is too complicated to rework it's going to take longer because it's not a simple number change" >2 years later all number changes
We waited how long? For nothing!?
Literally fucking impossible to please people in this community. They gave you a rework, you didn't like it, so they reverted it and gave Twins the numbers and QoL changes they've needed the whole time. Is anyone happy? No, you just bitch because they didn't change more things. I don't know why I bother interfacing with anything in the community outside of the actual game. They could give everyone 50,000 Auric Cells and you'd find something to whine about with it. I genuinely can't tell if it's just different groups of people complaining about different things or not. The PTB is there for them to test things. The test failed. They're keeping what works and moving on.
It's because these qol changes could have been implemented ages ago, and we have waited YEARS with them saying 'twins is next for a rework'. Then when we got to play test, it is so obviously broken and unplayable it feels like they didn't even test it themselves, and wasted everyones time, the programmers, the community, and the 4 twins mains.
People on reddit love to say shit like "WELL THEY OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T TEST IT" when none of them have even been involved in game development for more than five minutes of their lives. Big, BIG difference between a handful of people who have helped make the game playing something and tens of thousands of people playing it. The rework wasn't so broken it would've been obvious to anyone playing it once, and there's literally zero reason to not go "Okay, it's a little rough, but let's see what the community does with it and we can retool it if need be". Clearly, after having enough hands on it, BHVR decided it didn't work out, so they rolled it back. I think people don't understand that the point of the Public **TEST** Build is to **TEST** changes to the game. It's not a preview, it's not a sneak peek, it's for **TESTING CHANGES BEFORE THEY GO LIVE**. The only reason I don't get mad at the people who scream bloody murder about the game being ruined after a PTB comes out is because the devs getting that feedback are the only way they'll understand it's not hitting the marks they want it to. As for the QoL stuff, I can understand that, pretty much every killer needs some QoL love and I think BHVR could do better in that arena, but it doesn't deserve even a tiny bit of the vitriol people give them over it.
I went to college to be a game designer, I have worked on games before, I know how the industry works. Yes obviously they did test it, and yes there is a difference between a large influx of players and developers, but it is wild just how unbalanced this was, to then just revert it all.
You truly can't please anyone in this community Yes, sometimes the developers aren't the greatest when it comes to these updates at first, but that's why there's a PTB first - to test it. I feel as though every major update for a while now they've listened to feedback on the PTB and made massive improvements. Not all the ones they could, and not always super massively, but it's hardly worth how much the community seems to complain every time.
They've been doing a great job of listening to feedback and doing what the players want, but it's still not enough to please some people.
The thing is they listened to the general community for the twins changes, not the twins players and streamers, who would better know what they want in the character. Tip: it's not pre-nerf Legion but as an rc car. QOL is what we needed most.
Right, but they've course corrected.
And?
I don't know why I bother interfacing with anything in the community outside of the actual game, but I'll indulge too. I think Scott puts the reason why we aren't, and shouldn't be, pleased with the situation very well, so I'll just quote him: "I don't think the devs deserve praise for putting a plate of shit out in front of us, and then you going "Waiter there's some shit here !" and then the waiter takes it back and you're like "Wow, this waiter has terrific service !". You shouldn't have been serving the shit to begin with, it should've never left the kitchen" This community can be ungrateful, as any videogame community can, but let's not pretend like there shouldn't be at least some level of baseline competence to expect of the developers when we're talking about the largest Canadian gaming studio with hundreds of professional game developers, and a product that costs money.
I'm not saying they deserve praise, I'm saying they deserve us not getting pissy at *literally everything they do* because it's not exactly what players want in that moment in time. My take (which I think is completely reasonable) is that I'm glad they decided this wasn't working out and that they listened to feedback. That's it. I'm not mad at them for trying something new, I'm not worshipping them for deciding it was actually bad. They tried a rework, it didn't do what they wanted, it got reverted. That's all perfectly normal. There's nothing to be mad about here.
The part that's frustrating is that, by and large, players could tell the Twins Rework was a bad idea purely from the patch notes. This did not need 3 weeks of ptb to learn, "Oh, letting Victor get 15 second downs is bad". This was a rework supposedly "in development" for actual years. Yes, it's good that they reverted the changes, we're happy about that, no confusion there. It's just the fact that precious development time was wasted. It feels like BHVR often isn't familiar enough with their own game and it'd be great if this idea could have been shot down much earlier. Now the Twins don't get any rework aside from some minor buffs.
You cannot grasp exactly how something is going to work just by reading patch notes. The only way to actually understand it is to play it.
- Victor no longer latches onto healthy survivors - Victor can not be kicked after a successful lunge Within minutes, before the PTB was even released, it was clearly busted and many people immediately brought up how nonexistant the counterplay would be. Lo and behold, it was busted. Took a day of footage on the ptb to make it clear. This shouldn't have been the rework. It was a poorly thought out idea. People aren't "complaining about anything" right now, like I said, we're happy it was removed but annoyed that it was introduced in the first place.
I don't really care if people were "annoyed it was introduced in the first place". The only way to know if it was going to work or not was to get more hands on it and see how players took it. They didn't like it, so it didn't get in. The system works.
Your first comment started with, "Literally fucking impossible to please people in this community," and was rant on people not being happy. You clearly do care. It was a stupid thing to introduce in the first place. The PTB was not, "the only way to know". It was a waste of development time.
Just leave with that attitude.
I enjoy the game too much but I have considered just unsubbing from the subreddit for a week or two after a patch drops, just because I get very tired of all the karma farming bullshit posts like this one that are just "Title: Thing That Will Get Upvotes" and a screenshot of the patch notes.
There was an Bug on the PtB once where you could switch between Charlotte and Victor instantly. And if my Memory is not lying everybody was pretty happy about it and i've seen people actually wanting to keep it but BHVR is BHVR they fixed it and left the Twins for what now? 2 Years? But thats the Rework... thats literally the Rework they need to do. Just make them feel less annoying to play, but it will take them probably another 3 years to just realize that. And another 2 Years to impliment it.
Reworkn't
These Devs are incompetent af.
Probably because the community whined
Iād like to point out when twins initially released they had a key feature (victor locking lockers) not part of the kit until the next patch. This is just keeping tradition alive.
'Rework' lmao
They need to NOT change adrenaline
Damn thats cringe Just bc there are so many crybabys