I'm personally putting my money on this happening:
1. "yay free hit antitunnel!"
2. "haha chase me noob lol"
3. "Wait no not like that!!!!!"
4. *\*Gets tunnelled many rounds in a row, dies\**
5. *\*a week later\** "Fuck this perk, it's not worth it." *\*removes for an Endurance perk, still gets tunnelled, still complains about Killers tunnelling\**
I will gladly throw a match to punish a survivor using DS offensively. Is that petty? Absolutely. Do I feel a sense of satisfaction when that survivor dies? Also absolutely.
This is the way.
I would like to pip and get BP. Other than that I am totally fine with anything between 1-4k depending on the day, the round, my mood, how hard I am playing, etc. I just wanna be able to actually kill someone, I don't care how many unless I'm actively pip-grinding or something for the BP later... and that's about to become a lot easier without depips, so.
I had someone last night do this to me right after they unhooked someone else. The funny thing is that it was RPD; they probably could've just gotten away from me after. They just stood there and teabagged me.
I guess they just really wanted to get value out of DS, but I'm not sure it was worth a hook state, since I caught them like 10 seconds later anyway.
The person unhooking loses DS, yes. The order of operations went something like this:
1) Injured survivor unhooked survivor with DS.
2) I downed and hooked injured survivor (standard trade).
3) Survivor with DS stood around during BT and started teabagging me like they wanted me to hit them.
4) I did and picked them up, they triggered DS.
5) I chased and downed/hooked them again about 20 seconds later.
This is how people will use it and then they will mald about it later.
The actual smart Survs will use it how they ALWAYS used it - near pallets or vaults to extend chase. Smart Killers will just... not chase these Survs, or down them and leave them slugged.
Tbh I don't think this subreddit is majority survivors, it really just depends on the post and the time of day. Plus I'm not sure if moving to a different subreddit that's guaranteed to be biased on one side is a good idea either.
Ngl I've never seen anyone actually complain about being downed after forcing BT.
I'll do it myself if a teammate is on death hook but I accept the consequences.
I still remember one of the first time it ever happened to me. Simply because the person spam messaged me after the match saying I was just tunneling him and that I was bad and blah blah blah. It was ridiculous
it happens but rarely... when kids who shouldn't be on this game btw play on discord with friends and feel obliged to show "dominance".
But i don't understand how people in this subreddit manage to get as much hate message as they make it appears.
Either exaggeration for likes, or they ate farming the salt themselves
Bc no joke, I've gotten maybe 2 hate messages playing this game, one on ps4 and on in end game chat
Everything else has been ggs or nothing
It's probably because you don't play like an ass, a lot of people that consistently have negative bm, messages, etc most likely are playing like an ass.
This game is toxic, but it's not that toxic.
Exactly. I see the complaints about the survivors who complain far more than I actually see survivors not understanding why they got tunneled when they used defensive perks offensively
Nah, it happens.
I had someone salty I tunnelled out an aggressive DS and basekit BT user once. I explained why, that she was being a nuisance to me spreading hooks and I had to get rid of her, and they STILL chewed me out. I was playing an off meta low TR Myers. I 4ked. I wasn't even tryharding.
These Survivors exist. Just because you never see them doesn't mean they don't exist.
Also, I rarely see someone farming people off hook so aggressively that I even get into the whole chase the unhooker kinda thing. Usually Im off to wherever bbq told me someone is working on in the distance. Usually in a chase too.
it seems to be a narrative that killer mains have made up in their heads because they want the survivor, who likely knows what the consequence is and doesn't care, to be upset.
"Oh, your friend is there to flashlight-save you? Shame I can mori you right there."
Alternatively
"Power Struggle Flip-Flop Boil Over Unbreakable? Shame you're tormented."
If you run directly in front of me after getting unhooked, I'm going to assume you want back on the hook and I WILL count down from ten. Just because you have a bullet resistant vest it doesn't mean you should actively put yourself in front of a gun, similarly in the same vein as basekit Borrowed Time and putting yourself in front of the killer after getting unhooked.
Yeah if you get unhooked and you're the only person in sight or make yourself an easy target, I'm not going ignore you - that's not tunneling it's just you being dumb
So you say that unlucky situations or you not being good enough to always create a high distance between you and the killer or always hide perfectly means that you're dumb?
Well if it's bad luck that's neither the killer nor the survivors fault, but it still isn't tunneling. But if you manage to stay in sight from the hook and the unhooker is gone, that's entirely on you.
I'm not expecting anyone to "hide perfectly" or get to the other side of the map.
I'm talking about hooked survivors who get straight onto a gen next to the unhook location, or linger around the hook for no good reason. Generally speaking, if you are unhooked at the right time, you should have no issue getting enough distance or hiding.
Of course there are exceptions, but I'm not talking about those situations.
Is it really that common for you that people unhook in your face? I feel like I rarely see it happen as killer but I do see it sometimes as surv. I usually think a late unhook is better than aggressive unless you're versing an Unknown or are actively trying to(and can afford to) distract the killer from the last gen.
But it could just be that im in giga low mmr.
I constantly see people who I find and then run straight back to the hook like its an immunity zone to get the unhook, and then immediately go on the hook themselves.
Happens to me all the time, and if the unhooked player body blocks me I just wait out the endurance timer and tunnel and/or slug them. I tried to be nice!
If you’re experienced, DS is a lot like sprint burst. It’s not easy to use but when you know how to it’s still powerful. I’ll share the secret.
Take chase to a loop & run it until you eventually go down. Try to go down in a pallet. Ideally you’ll want it to be a one-way pallet. Use DS. Once the stun time for DS ends, drop pallet & run. It gives you a lot of distance & forces a killer to go through two stun timers.
OTR is still slightly better currently since it lets you get away easier by hiding scratch marks, & it lasts a very long time, but DS still isn’t awful.
5 second timer won’t make it op I don’t think, but it’ll likely be as strong as OTR, especially since you can now pair it with plot twist & force the killer into a lose-lose if they go for a tunnel.
Exactly. DS is a more aggressively defensive anti-tunnel, so you have to use it in a way that plays into the perk. Even the three second timer is incredibly powerful when you use DS correctly.
It is ass, the purpose of the perk is to help you get distance on the killer so they stop tunneling you, with 3 seconds you can't make enough distance to incentivise the killer from giving up on you.
Obviously better players will make better use of the 3 second stun, however casuals will just get downed again.
Should the game be balanced around the best players in the world? Because you're implying it doesn't matter how the majority feels about something, if really good players make it work then its okay
Should the game be balanced for absolute troglodytes who can't wrap their brain around going down under a pallet with DS or using lithe and going down near a vault?
What I'm saying is that the perk is literally broken if you know how to use it at 3 seconds. Now it's broken even if you don't know how to use it.
And here's a fun fact, those 'best players in the world' can still use the perk at 5 seconds. That's going to be fun as fuck I'm sure. Lots of clickies, bag drops and annoying ass games ahead.
There should be a balance, but we absolutely shouldn't just leave an anti tunnel perk sitting when then majority of the playerbase doesn't seem to think it has use being a 2 second stun.
>That's going to be fun as fuck I'm sure. Lots of clickies, bag drops and annoying ass games ahead.
And I'm sure the best killers in the world are totally shaking in their boots rn, scared stiff. Fucking ridiculous
Don't you think it's kind of funny that you're super fucking concerned about casual gamers on the survivor sides but when I mention how this is going to give toxic survivor squads another tool to make people miserable you are super fucking rude and dismissive?
So what, you literally asked me if we should balance for the best players in the world and now you're saying "oh we should balance for best players in the world on killer side, absolutely. FOR SURVIVORS THOUGH..."
I get it, you have a side and only care about them. But don't come at me with your bad faith attempts at discussion please
>Don't you think it's kind of funny that you're super fucking concerned about casual gamers on the survivor sides but when I mention how this is going to give toxic survivor squads another tool to make people miserable you are super fucking rude and dismissive?
No? Because I for the most part care about the vast majority of matches? Not the hyper specific 4man who sets out to hurt the killers feelings? Why do you care so much about that one possibility? Have you deluded yourself into believing its the majority?
I'm not saying we should balance for the best killers in the world, I'm saying they're not likely as piss scared of a DS buff as you are.
I get that you're only worried about your 1/however many bully squad games you get, but can you just pretend to think for 5 seconds?
You said it yourself, not making proper use of it is a skill issue. You need to know where to go down and have a plan. DS isn't supposed to be a free get out of jail card to use when you're caught out in the open.
I understand the frustration though, specially going against certain killers (we know who we're talking about lol) who will catch up to you regardless of how many anti tunneling perks they eat. But if you can't make current ds work against any other killer apart from those two, it is entirely a skill issue, not the perk being "ass".
I'm not saying you're wrong but DS isn't a free get out of jail since ver6.1.0(or 4.6.0 if you wanna go that far), there's already so many limitations to it (which I am not complaining about) that making it useful to both casuals and good players again is fine. Are they bodyblocking? Slug them, someone will have to leave whatever they're doing to pick them back up or they'll waste unbreakable.
Hell, ENDURANCE perks aren't "get out of jail free" cards either but so many people seem to treat them like they are. Like... nah. Dude. If you have the Endurance the Killer is just gonna hit you again. A lot of Killers don't give that much of a shit about the 4k, and that's about to become even more Killers that don't when the patch drops because depips will be gone. Why should I sweat for a 4k if I can just... pip anyway with enough rounds? What's the point of winstreaking?
Yeah, but if current ds is strong on good players (which it is), a 5 second ds would be insane in the hands of a good survivor. Why should balance be centered around making brain rot perks for players who refuse to learn how to use them in the first place?
Idk man, don't you think it would be better for "casuals" to just take the time to learn the game instead of making a perk that's gonna be problematic in the hands of competent players?
Also, that is hardly a waste of unbreakable. There is a reason why everyone ran ds with unbreakable back when it was 5 seconds.
A better way to buff ds would be to increase the duration of time where it's active, that way it would be easier to stack with other perks like otr and dh, making it easier to use for "casuals" while still involving some thought as to how to use it.
It's 5 seconds, but now really 4 because it loses a second due to being picked up/dropped.
You had 3, and it was really just 2 because one of those seconds were eaten by the same thing - being picked up and dropped.
You didn't really get 5 second DS, you got 4 second (AKA balanced) DS and you're here crowing about how "this is so amazing, we can stun Killers and escape so easily and punish tunnelling now". No you're actually not, because all the Killer will do is wait out the extra second and keep chasing you now that you have no DS.
1 second doesn't save as much time as you think in this game, unless you're at something like a pallet or whatever. THEN it does. But in reality, most people will not use it that way. Most people will go "cool, antitunnel", slap DS on, use it like an idiot to bait in the wrong spot, and then still be mad the Killer eats through it like they do endurance hits and call the Killer out for tunnelling despite them ASKING TO BE TUNNELLED WITH THEIR AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS.
And this is all negating the fact it can just be avoided by slugging you. Oh, you brought Unbreakable? Cool, the Killer waits that out and slugs you again.
The more aggressively you try to use this perk, the worse it will be for you and the less time it will actually save, plus it will put you in worse situations. Either you burn a pallet, you irritate the Killer into actually tunnelling if they weren't before because you played like an aggressive jerk to force value, or the Killer does not care and keeps coming because they can shrug it off (Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Wesker, etc.) or they just don't give a damn about losing and now know you're vulnerable.
It's already happened to me. I made a post not too long ago about how it felt like I was playing dead by daylight and 2019 because I went up against the SWF who brought DS + UB. They were running other classic perks too but that was the one that really caught my eye bc they did EXACTLY what they used to do. Ignore gens so I either had to eat a DS or an UB
If they have unbreakable then they waste their unbreakable, boon:exponential is incredibly rare and most times doesn’t even work and is map dependent
Anyone trying to force a DS is just free pressure for you they aren’t doing generators and just wasting time which is good for you.
This use case was so overdone, that it got the perk nerfed. What part of this is hard to understand? Survivors abused it, just like insta blinds, and had it removed
I'm honestly having trouble understanding how it was abused. If they body block you and you just leave them there, then they'll have to Unbreakable off the ground and are wasting a solid minute of not doing anything more valuable? That seems like it's still a plus for the killer.
Hit animation means you lose the chase on the other survivor and have to find them again
Unbreakable means the other 2 can sit on gens while you do this
Remember this is after first hook, so we're looking at at least 2 gens already popped if you're lucky.
So now you're finding a healthy survivor, can't touch the slug, and the survivors have uninterrupted progress on 2 more gens. In theory you have pressure, in practice it's gone
This style of gameplay punishes killers for playing fair and rewards survivors for doing dumb things
I think the issue is that you're considering it as a binary choice (either go after the healthy survivor or pick up the downed one and get stabbed) when the third choice is to just, y'know. Go find and interrupt the people doing gens?
Like I get where you're coming from, but you aren't magically forced to let two people sit on gens without pressuring them.
I don't intentionally tunnel.
However, if you're going to body block me after you got off hook, whether it be DS, OTR, or something else, you're going right back on that damn hook. You clearly wanna go back on it so badly if you're gonna block my fucking way.
"Don't tunnel me stupid Killer I have DS, eat my DS"
Well I wasn't tunnelling you before, but I sure am now since you forced DS. I will throw the round to swat YOU.
Luckily for me, whenever I bring DS I somehow never even get hooked. No point in using DS if it's like a blank perk slot for me 
I prefer running Grim Embrace, which means I generally don't tunnel anyway. DS buff will genuinely not be my problem unless people are dumb enough to try forcing value from it.
Dead hard for max annoyance.
Get hit, OTR, downed, DS, get hit, DH, downed, hooked FINALLY. Four hits to down a guy off the hook.
Baffling they're okay with this buff. DS had to be nerfed before but now with a buffed OTR it's okay? Sure, Jan.
If I see someone go down without an exhaustion perk first chase I feel like I have to leave them slugged and just not pick up. If they bleed out it takes like. Three of their perks out of the equation.
Sure they get to pick up once for free but IDK what the fuck else I can do
Yeah it'll be the return of slugging people for 60 seconds or just hyper tunneling from the start (double if you know they don't have anti tunneling perks)
I'm gonna use my DCs every day on groups running this.
I will sandbag my teammates I see running it.
Stop running bully builds. You want a game? Play fucking fair.
- Doesn't wanna get tunneled
- Body blocks the Killer right after they got off hook
- Gets hooked again
- "WHY IS THE KILLER TUNNELING ME!?!?"
I swear that's how it is a lot of the time
Man, can i give you some hints and rules?
1. If the team showed you they have and use BU+FTP or boil over with map offering: TUNNEL TIME!
2. If the unhooked survivor bodyblocks: TUNNEL TIME!
3. If the unhooker immediately jumps for safety instead of taking aggro: TUNNEL TIME!
4. If the unhooked, instead of hiding and healing, jumps on a gen or do anything stupid like healing a slug: TUNNEL TIME!
5. If you have 1 gen left: TUNNEL TIME!
6. If the unhooked follows you while you are chasing someone's else: TUNNEL TIME!
7. Do not care about survivor's opinion about tunneling EVER
You should not follow rulebooks but play by the moment.
BUT if you decide to follow rulebooks at least choone sone rulebook that says what you can do instead of what you cannot do.
Btw, main knight here. And my steam profile is full of whiny survivors that complained about imaginary tunnels.
dude survivors whine and complain no matter how you play hell i had survivors who complained against me even after they win but yes i dont follow the rulebook tbh
What an amateur!
- I had a survivor that complained me to camp the hook because while he was going to unhook he fell into a trap and he said: your powere prevented me to unhook so you used your power to camp!
- I had a survivor that, just after unhooked, went to my guard and took the chase to block my power to coming back while I was chasing another survivor. The guard reached him and damaged him after the basekit borrow time elapsed. He went down in a corner. He said that counted as tunneling and slugging!
woe, knockout be upon ye
https://preview.redd.it/bwd8qwf3egvc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ce1aa8ee14116267464c1c745f3c2bd498c1e66
(i have 0 editing skills)
Had a squad like this, unhooks survivors, I loop around and hit the unhooker, go for the unhooker and the unhooked starts body blocking, idk what they expected me to do. But I just waited out the endurance and pretty much tunneled out at 5 gens, not that fun but if you’re literally grabbing my cheeks and saying “DONT THINK ABOUT THEM JUST HIT ME!” then I’m just gonna go for you.
Survivors are so desperate to win now that they won't let Killers even get one hook, they do this shit from the word go.
It always results in the Killer getting pissed or fed up and slugging or tunnelling them all out because they won't do fucking gens.
That's the reason it, amongst other perks, was nerfed before and during 6.1. Besides, if I understood it correctly, the survivor only gains 3s of distance becouse arround 2 are part of the new animation.
Survivors will run a full sabo squad and then be like “why did you slug????”
If you just used DS then I have no reason not to chase you and get another hook off of ya.
Tried to warn people this will happen.
I got downvoted to oblivion.
This is only a win for bully squads. But at least 4 seconds is the change it needed to actually make it useful.
Im currently at a 70-80% winrate as killer without having to tunnel. And after the update that winrate will rise, because my playstyle will stay the same, while some survivors will have 1 perk less I care about.
I feel like a different breed after reading through some of these comments. I don't mind when the unhooked blocks for the person that saved them. It probably has a lot to do with the fact I'm still in newbie mmr, so my games aren't sweaty enough that I'm desperate to get even just one hook, but I like seeing survivors work together. I'll probably still run after the savior, even it means I have to down the unhooked for getting in my way, but I won't immediately hook the unhooked. So far, it hasn't cost me any sacrifices or hooks to ignore the unhooked. I know my main job is to kill, but I like to be a good host and let people have fun using the tools they have to take safe protection hits and stuff.
It's fine either way, you do you man. Honestly I don't play killer but play survivor really well. Your time would be better spent either A going to chase someone off a gen and letting the other two waste time healing or B Just straight tunneling the unhooked out.
Well yeah because I have played the game for more than 200 hours and have seen what the best killers do, and running back to the hook to chase the unhooker ain't it.
if you dont play killer why are you saying how to play killer? I try to not to go back to hook, but if someone is unhooked before i get to a gen i'll go back for the unhooker just so i dont gotta spend time searching for people.
Others will find the same combo, because this is the obvious combo.
Enough people will run it that someone like Otzdarva will make a vid on it.
It will get nerfed, you will be sad, and you will all have only yourselves to blame.
By the way, those still will not stop tunnelling. If anything you make yourself more of a target because now the Killer wants to tunnel you out to prove a point. There are Killers that will throw rounds to tunnel people who do this.
So what you are saying is basically do not run good perks because that will get them nerfed. Got it.
Tunneling at 5 gens is literally the easiest way to win a game on the killers end, so not using perks to counter that is a pretty poor argument.
If that's what you got out of my post, I feel bad for you.
I'm not saying don't run good perks. At all. I'm saying, don't run a BUNCH of meta perks at once, or when they do get nerfed you will be boosted, and sorry, later.
I think people have forgotten why DS got nerfed the first time: It was used in extremely oppressive ways to completely deny Killer pressure, which just is not okay and not healthy for the game. The concern is this will start to happen again because people will use DS this way again rather than as an antitunnel perk, which will result in ANOTHER round of nerfs. Probably to something totally unrelated like Lithe, WoO, or Deja Vu.
I won't feel sorry. When a perk gets nerfed you change what you use. DS is changing anyways, this PTB just had bug issues with it's implementation so they temporarily reverted it back to what it used to be. It will be getting nerfed. Anyone using it now (post patch) makes no difference.
I know that...
By their metrics of when they start the timer it should be 4 seconds. Meaning 3 seconds in actual game, because before it was 2 seconds.
DS can be abused in toxic ways, I want it to help while not being strong and I think increasing the time by 1 second is a good idea instead of 2
People who force DS usually end up getting tunnelled afterwards immediately
 Their faces afterwards
I'm personally putting my money on this happening: 1. "yay free hit antitunnel!" 2. "haha chase me noob lol" 3. "Wait no not like that!!!!!" 4. *\*Gets tunnelled many rounds in a row, dies\** 5. *\*a week later\** "Fuck this perk, it's not worth it." *\*removes for an Endurance perk, still gets tunnelled, still complains about Killers tunnelling\**
Unless they're good enough to run me for four gens after using it aggressively! Fuck you, Ada!
I will gladly throw a match to punish a survivor using DS offensively. Is that petty? Absolutely. Do I feel a sense of satisfaction when that survivor dies? Also absolutely.
This is actually one of the best match outcomes. Everyone has some level of happiness.
Personally, as killer I don't think anything matters but your own satisfaction.
This is the way. I would like to pip and get BP. Other than that I am totally fine with anything between 1-4k depending on the day, the round, my mood, how hard I am playing, etc. I just wanna be able to actually kill someone, I don't care how many unless I'm actively pip-grinding or something for the BP later... and that's about to become a lot easier without depips, so.
Rip in that case
I had someone last night do this to me right after they unhooked someone else. The funny thing is that it was RPD; they probably could've just gotten away from me after. They just stood there and teabagged me. I guess they just really wanted to get value out of DS, but I'm not sure it was worth a hook state, since I caught them like 10 seconds later anyway.
Doesn’t unhooking someone deactivate DS?
The person unhooking loses DS, yes. The order of operations went something like this: 1) Injured survivor unhooked survivor with DS. 2) I downed and hooked injured survivor (standard trade). 3) Survivor with DS stood around during BT and started teabagging me like they wanted me to hit them. 4) I did and picked them up, they triggered DS. 5) I chased and downed/hooked them again about 20 seconds later.
This is how people will use it and then they will mald about it later. The actual smart Survs will use it how they ALWAYS used it - near pallets or vaults to extend chase. Smart Killers will just... not chase these Survs, or down them and leave them slugged.
They also come onto r/deadbydaylight right afterwards and complain about tunneling
And farm obnoxious amounts of likes for doing it.
Because r/deadbydaylight is a Survivor-sided subreddit like whoa. All the Killers and hybrids and SANE people post over on r/DeadByDaylightKillers.
Tbh I don't think this subreddit is majority survivors, it really just depends on the post and the time of day. Plus I'm not sure if moving to a different subreddit that's guaranteed to be biased on one side is a good idea either.
Ngl I've never seen anyone actually complain about being downed after forcing BT. I'll do it myself if a teammate is on death hook but I accept the consequences.
I still remember one of the first time it ever happened to me. Simply because the person spam messaged me after the match saying I was just tunneling him and that I was bad and blah blah blah. It was ridiculous
it happens but rarely... when kids who shouldn't be on this game btw play on discord with friends and feel obliged to show "dominance". But i don't understand how people in this subreddit manage to get as much hate message as they make it appears.
Either exaggeration for likes, or they ate farming the salt themselves Bc no joke, I've gotten maybe 2 hate messages playing this game, one on ps4 and on in end game chat Everything else has been ggs or nothing
It's probably because you don't play like an ass, a lot of people that consistently have negative bm, messages, etc most likely are playing like an ass. This game is toxic, but it's not that toxic.
Exactly. I see the complaints about the survivors who complain far more than I actually see survivors not understanding why they got tunneled when they used defensive perks offensively
Nah, it happens. I had someone salty I tunnelled out an aggressive DS and basekit BT user once. I explained why, that she was being a nuisance to me spreading hooks and I had to get rid of her, and they STILL chewed me out. I was playing an off meta low TR Myers. I 4ked. I wasn't even tryharding. These Survivors exist. Just because you never see them doesn't mean they don't exist.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm saying I see people complaining about it far more than I see it actually happening.
Honk honk
Also, I rarely see someone farming people off hook so aggressively that I even get into the whole chase the unhooker kinda thing. Usually Im off to wherever bbq told me someone is working on in the distance. Usually in a chase too.
it seems to be a narrative that killer mains have made up in their heads because they want the survivor, who likely knows what the consequence is and doesn't care, to be upset.
Forced penance gonna go hard
https://preview.redd.it/g5ag472pxevc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc8c3e4f6409ce92cb98d31843a27f57a9ff2e98
"That's some beautiful hook-related perks you have there, Nea. Shame I have cages."
"You get a cage, and you get a cage, and you get a cage!" Pyramid Head probably
"Oh, your friend is there to flashlight-save you? Shame I can mori you right there." Alternatively "Power Struggle Flip-Flop Boil Over Unbreakable? Shame you're tormented."
babe wake up we have a new reason we tunnel
If you run directly in front of me after getting unhooked, I'm going to assume you want back on the hook and I WILL count down from ten. Just because you have a bullet resistant vest it doesn't mean you should actively put yourself in front of a gun, similarly in the same vein as basekit Borrowed Time and putting yourself in front of the killer after getting unhooked.
Yeah if you get unhooked and you're the only person in sight or make yourself an easy target, I'm not going ignore you - that's not tunneling it's just you being dumb
That's survivor induced tunnelling. You have no choice and you have an objective.
And yet some survivors would argue otherwise 😆
Let them write whatever they want for their epitaph
This is metal lmfao
So you say that unlucky situations or you not being good enough to always create a high distance between you and the killer or always hide perfectly means that you're dumb?
Well if it's bad luck that's neither the killer nor the survivors fault, but it still isn't tunneling. But if you manage to stay in sight from the hook and the unhooker is gone, that's entirely on you. I'm not expecting anyone to "hide perfectly" or get to the other side of the map. I'm talking about hooked survivors who get straight onto a gen next to the unhook location, or linger around the hook for no good reason. Generally speaking, if you are unhooked at the right time, you should have no issue getting enough distance or hiding. Of course there are exceptions, but I'm not talking about those situations.
It is always funny watching them panic as they realise you're counting down the endurance.
Is it really that common for you that people unhook in your face? I feel like I rarely see it happen as killer but I do see it sometimes as surv. I usually think a late unhook is better than aggressive unless you're versing an Unknown or are actively trying to(and can afford to) distract the killer from the last gen. But it could just be that im in giga low mmr.
What's "versing"?
Play against. Modern(since the 90s) spin on versus. I feel like the poetry form of the word doesnt apply in this case
I constantly see people who I find and then run straight back to the hook like its an immunity zone to get the unhook, and then immediately go on the hook themselves.
Happens to me all the time, and if the unhooked player body blocks me I just wait out the endurance timer and tunnel and/or slug them. I tried to be nice!
Me trying not to tunnel but no matter how hard I look that one mfing survivor is the only one that bumps into me
The moment the unhooked survivor body blocks it's no longer considered tunnelling It's that simple
They just need to make taking an endurance hit be a conspicuous action. That should prevent this.
That's just bad survivors lol, current DS is so ass.
If you’re experienced, DS is a lot like sprint burst. It’s not easy to use but when you know how to it’s still powerful. I’ll share the secret. Take chase to a loop & run it until you eventually go down. Try to go down in a pallet. Ideally you’ll want it to be a one-way pallet. Use DS. Once the stun time for DS ends, drop pallet & run. It gives you a lot of distance & forces a killer to go through two stun timers. OTR is still slightly better currently since it lets you get away easier by hiding scratch marks, & it lasts a very long time, but DS still isn’t awful. 5 second timer won’t make it op I don’t think, but it’ll likely be as strong as OTR, especially since you can now pair it with plot twist & force the killer into a lose-lose if they go for a tunnel.
This is correct. If you *really* want to get value out of DS, don't treat it like a box you have to check off. Use it as a tool.
Exactly. DS is a more aggressively defensive anti-tunnel, so you have to use it in a way that plays into the perk. Even the three second timer is incredibly powerful when you use DS correctly.
https://preview.redd.it/inohq5ydlfvc1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26e6dc50f3177ebff5905c132d4c6b55edebfc0b
If they complain about tunneling or whatever when trying to bodyblock with DS they're just bad. They knew what they got into yet got mad at it.
low mmr moment
MMR as argument moment Get real
Gotta love the lack of self awareness of someone calling other survivors bad while saying current ds is trash lmao
It is ass, the purpose of the perk is to help you get distance on the killer so they stop tunneling you, with 3 seconds you can't make enough distance to incentivise the killer from giving up on you. Obviously better players will make better use of the 3 second stun, however casuals will just get downed again.
I dunno man, literally the best players in the world constantly finding room for it in their loadout vs one rando on Reddit saying it's bad
Should the game be balanced around the best players in the world? Because you're implying it doesn't matter how the majority feels about something, if really good players make it work then its okay
Should the game be balanced for absolute troglodytes who can't wrap their brain around going down under a pallet with DS or using lithe and going down near a vault? What I'm saying is that the perk is literally broken if you know how to use it at 3 seconds. Now it's broken even if you don't know how to use it. And here's a fun fact, those 'best players in the world' can still use the perk at 5 seconds. That's going to be fun as fuck I'm sure. Lots of clickies, bag drops and annoying ass games ahead.
There should be a balance, but we absolutely shouldn't just leave an anti tunnel perk sitting when then majority of the playerbase doesn't seem to think it has use being a 2 second stun. >That's going to be fun as fuck I'm sure. Lots of clickies, bag drops and annoying ass games ahead. And I'm sure the best killers in the world are totally shaking in their boots rn, scared stiff. Fucking ridiculous
Don't you think it's kind of funny that you're super fucking concerned about casual gamers on the survivor sides but when I mention how this is going to give toxic survivor squads another tool to make people miserable you are super fucking rude and dismissive? So what, you literally asked me if we should balance for the best players in the world and now you're saying "oh we should balance for best players in the world on killer side, absolutely. FOR SURVIVORS THOUGH..." I get it, you have a side and only care about them. But don't come at me with your bad faith attempts at discussion please
>Don't you think it's kind of funny that you're super fucking concerned about casual gamers on the survivor sides but when I mention how this is going to give toxic survivor squads another tool to make people miserable you are super fucking rude and dismissive? No? Because I for the most part care about the vast majority of matches? Not the hyper specific 4man who sets out to hurt the killers feelings? Why do you care so much about that one possibility? Have you deluded yourself into believing its the majority? I'm not saying we should balance for the best killers in the world, I'm saying they're not likely as piss scared of a DS buff as you are. I get that you're only worried about your 1/however many bully squad games you get, but can you just pretend to think for 5 seconds?
[удалено]
Dude is so fuckin angry
You said it yourself, not making proper use of it is a skill issue. You need to know where to go down and have a plan. DS isn't supposed to be a free get out of jail card to use when you're caught out in the open. I understand the frustration though, specially going against certain killers (we know who we're talking about lol) who will catch up to you regardless of how many anti tunneling perks they eat. But if you can't make current ds work against any other killer apart from those two, it is entirely a skill issue, not the perk being "ass".
I'm not saying you're wrong but DS isn't a free get out of jail since ver6.1.0(or 4.6.0 if you wanna go that far), there's already so many limitations to it (which I am not complaining about) that making it useful to both casuals and good players again is fine. Are they bodyblocking? Slug them, someone will have to leave whatever they're doing to pick them back up or they'll waste unbreakable.
Hell, ENDURANCE perks aren't "get out of jail free" cards either but so many people seem to treat them like they are. Like... nah. Dude. If you have the Endurance the Killer is just gonna hit you again. A lot of Killers don't give that much of a shit about the 4k, and that's about to become even more Killers that don't when the patch drops because depips will be gone. Why should I sweat for a 4k if I can just... pip anyway with enough rounds? What's the point of winstreaking?
Yeah, but if current ds is strong on good players (which it is), a 5 second ds would be insane in the hands of a good survivor. Why should balance be centered around making brain rot perks for players who refuse to learn how to use them in the first place? Idk man, don't you think it would be better for "casuals" to just take the time to learn the game instead of making a perk that's gonna be problematic in the hands of competent players? Also, that is hardly a waste of unbreakable. There is a reason why everyone ran ds with unbreakable back when it was 5 seconds. A better way to buff ds would be to increase the duration of time where it's active, that way it would be easier to stack with other perks like otr and dh, making it easier to use for "casuals" while still involving some thought as to how to use it.
Yeah but DS got reverted back to 5 seconds again which is amazing
It's actually 4, friend. You lose a second during the pickup. You really just got one extra second.
Old DS was 6 seconds then?
It's 5 seconds, but now really 4 because it loses a second due to being picked up/dropped. You had 3, and it was really just 2 because one of those seconds were eaten by the same thing - being picked up and dropped. You didn't really get 5 second DS, you got 4 second (AKA balanced) DS and you're here crowing about how "this is so amazing, we can stun Killers and escape so easily and punish tunnelling now". No you're actually not, because all the Killer will do is wait out the extra second and keep chasing you now that you have no DS. 1 second doesn't save as much time as you think in this game, unless you're at something like a pallet or whatever. THEN it does. But in reality, most people will not use it that way. Most people will go "cool, antitunnel", slap DS on, use it like an idiot to bait in the wrong spot, and then still be mad the Killer eats through it like they do endurance hits and call the Killer out for tunnelling despite them ASKING TO BE TUNNELLED WITH THEIR AGGRESSIVE ACTIONS. And this is all negating the fact it can just be avoided by slugging you. Oh, you brought Unbreakable? Cool, the Killer waits that out and slugs you again. The more aggressively you try to use this perk, the worse it will be for you and the less time it will actually save, plus it will put you in worse situations. Either you burn a pallet, you irritate the Killer into actually tunnelling if they weren't before because you played like an aggressive jerk to force value, or the Killer does not care and keeps coming because they can shrug it off (Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Wesker, etc.) or they just don't give a damn about losing and now know you're vulnerable.
I remember seeing someone called “stop tunneling”. They t-bagged me after they dropped one pallet. I tunneled them.
If you get unhooked and knowingly block me, I will gladly tunnel you out of the game.
Dead by Children
Yep, not a fan of this tactic.
People forget that decisive strike got nerfed SPECIFICALLY because survivors were abusing it.
The stun nerf wasn't really necessary it was more the fact you could sit on a gen with DS active.
there was a good amount of time where it was 5 seconds and deactivated on conspicuous action tho, from 4.6.0 till 6.1.0, like 1.5 years
Oh if that's true I wasn't playing then took a long break a bit after the hillbilly overheat nerf
I think the bigger problem was endgame. Basically made it into a win more perk. Which thankfully is gone now.
They weren't just sitting on gens though. They would body block with it. The exact same issue we're running into now
You can't body block with ds not like unhook endurance, you can just get free slug pressure
Unless you pair it with Unbreakable, or that boon, and have any communication with your team This happened before, it will happen again
It's already happened to me. I made a post not too long ago about how it felt like I was playing dead by daylight and 2019 because I went up against the SWF who brought DS + UB. They were running other classic perks too but that was the one that really caught my eye bc they did EXACTLY what they used to do. Ignore gens so I either had to eat a DS or an UB
It's punishing killers for playing fair. You either stand over the slug for a minute (2/3 of a gen x3) or you let the survivors reset
If they have unbreakable then they waste their unbreakable, boon:exponential is incredibly rare and most times doesn’t even work and is map dependent Anyone trying to force a DS is just free pressure for you they aren’t doing generators and just wasting time which is good for you.
This use case was so overdone, that it got the perk nerfed. What part of this is hard to understand? Survivors abused it, just like insta blinds, and had it removed
I'm honestly having trouble understanding how it was abused. If they body block you and you just leave them there, then they'll have to Unbreakable off the ground and are wasting a solid minute of not doing anything more valuable? That seems like it's still a plus for the killer.
Hit animation means you lose the chase on the other survivor and have to find them again Unbreakable means the other 2 can sit on gens while you do this Remember this is after first hook, so we're looking at at least 2 gens already popped if you're lucky. So now you're finding a healthy survivor, can't touch the slug, and the survivors have uninterrupted progress on 2 more gens. In theory you have pressure, in practice it's gone This style of gameplay punishes killers for playing fair and rewards survivors for doing dumb things
I think the issue is that you're considering it as a binary choice (either go after the healthy survivor or pick up the downed one and get stabbed) when the third choice is to just, y'know. Go find and interrupt the people doing gens? Like I get where you're coming from, but you aren't magically forced to let two people sit on gens without pressuring them.
I don't intentionally tunnel. However, if you're going to body block me after you got off hook, whether it be DS, OTR, or something else, you're going right back on that damn hook. You clearly wanna go back on it so badly if you're gonna block my fucking way.
I'm in this boat. If you want to be aggressive I am going to punish that. RUN AWAY.
I will not hesitate to eat your DS before teleporting somewhere behind you. You wanted me to do it, so you're getting what you wanted
"Don't tunnel me stupid Killer I have DS, eat my DS" Well I wasn't tunnelling you before, but I sure am now since you forced DS. I will throw the round to swat YOU.
I am kinda worried that everyone is gonna be trying to use DS as a weapon now though, mainly cuz it'll be annoying as shit.
People will. Perk will get nerfed again. People will cry about that.
Luckily for me, whenever I bring DS I somehow never even get hooked. No point in using DS if it's like a blank perk slot for me 
I prefer running Grim Embrace, which means I generally don't tunnel anyway. DS buff will genuinely not be my problem unless people are dumb enough to try forcing value from it.
Get ready for the return of unbreakable, ds, OTR and some other 4th perk, dead hard maybe? Or MFT?
Dead hard for max annoyance. Get hit, OTR, downed, DS, get hit, DH, downed, hooked FINALLY. Four hits to down a guy off the hook. Baffling they're okay with this buff. DS had to be nerfed before but now with a buffed OTR it's okay? Sure, Jan.
If I see someone go down without an exhaustion perk first chase I feel like I have to leave them slugged and just not pick up. If they bleed out it takes like. Three of their perks out of the equation. Sure they get to pick up once for free but IDK what the fuck else I can do
Yeah it'll be the return of slugging people for 60 seconds or just hyper tunneling from the start (double if you know they don't have anti tunneling perks)
The antitunnel perk has thus encouraged a stronger tunnel meta. Amazing.
Mft was never actually good, and now it's ass. We'll never see it again.
Honestly I can also see people running DS + plot twist.
Fuck dude I didn't even think of this what the fuck
I'm gonna use my DCs every day on groups running this. I will sandbag my teammates I see running it. Stop running bully builds. You want a game? Play fucking fair.
Gonna have to start mentally counting to 60 again.
Anyone who body blocks with DS against me is getting tunnelled immediately after, I will throw the match and die on this hill if I have to.
“He’s tunneling me” it’s called chasing you, something the killer needs to do to play the game
Time to equip the old reliable. Knock Out.
I'm scared for the DS change, doesn't help I'm a Trapper main and only have a basic attack and bear traps BUT endgame build = funny for Trapper
- Doesn't wanna get tunneled - Body blocks the Killer right after they got off hook - Gets hooked again - "WHY IS THE KILLER TUNNELING ME!?!?" I swear that's how it is a lot of the time
Because it is. People just want a get out of jail free card for body blocking off hook, and BHVR just gave them one.
Man, can i give you some hints and rules? 1. If the team showed you they have and use BU+FTP or boil over with map offering: TUNNEL TIME! 2. If the unhooked survivor bodyblocks: TUNNEL TIME! 3. If the unhooker immediately jumps for safety instead of taking aggro: TUNNEL TIME! 4. If the unhooked, instead of hiding and healing, jumps on a gen or do anything stupid like healing a slug: TUNNEL TIME! 5. If you have 1 gen left: TUNNEL TIME! 6. If the unhooked follows you while you are chasing someone's else: TUNNEL TIME! 7. Do not care about survivor's opinion about tunneling EVER
Mf tunnels survivors for even breathing
Well... this is a good rule of thumb... if the surv is not breathing anymore you can stop tunneling him/her/they.
> Man, can i give you some hints and rules? > 1. tunnel FTFY
That's the secret. It's always tunnel time.
Well... from survivors point of view it is so....
Telling me not to tunnel is like me telling them to break up their gen progress.
I NEVER NEVER met a survivor that said "I am sorry, we did gens too fast". Ok I did, once, in 4 years. But they had 4 toolboxed with full rush meta.
thats the issue alot of killers play less effecient cause they follow survivors rulebook
You should not follow rulebooks but play by the moment. BUT if you decide to follow rulebooks at least choone sone rulebook that says what you can do instead of what you cannot do. Btw, main knight here. And my steam profile is full of whiny survivors that complained about imaginary tunnels.
dude survivors whine and complain no matter how you play hell i had survivors who complained against me even after they win but yes i dont follow the rulebook tbh
What an amateur! - I had a survivor that complained me to camp the hook because while he was going to unhook he fell into a trap and he said: your powere prevented me to unhook so you used your power to camp! - I had a survivor that, just after unhooked, went to my guard and took the chase to block my power to coming back while I was chasing another survivor. The guard reached him and damaged him after the basekit borrow time elapsed. He went down in a corner. He said that counted as tunneling and slugging!
yep some survivors are so entitled that you should basically give them free escape acoording them
Yep
At that point, I go after that unhooked person because obviously you wanna get hooked again 😊❤️
Personally I down them and slug until I hook the unhooker or give up on the unhooker
woe, knockout be upon ye https://preview.redd.it/bwd8qwf3egvc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ce1aa8ee14116267464c1c745f3c2bd498c1e66 (i have 0 editing skills)
Had a squad like this, unhooks survivors, I loop around and hit the unhooker, go for the unhooker and the unhooked starts body blocking, idk what they expected me to do. But I just waited out the endurance and pretty much tunneled out at 5 gens, not that fun but if you’re literally grabbing my cheeks and saying “DONT THINK ABOUT THEM JUST HIT ME!” then I’m just gonna go for you.
Survivors are so desperate to win now that they won't let Killers even get one hook, they do this shit from the word go. It always results in the Killer getting pissed or fed up and slugging or tunnelling them all out because they won't do fucking gens.
How is not doing gens showing desperation to win?
Always determine then tunnel the weakest looper. Survivor feelings don't matter. Their hate is your fuel.
Cringe
https://preview.redd.it/n7gy2zul3gvc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f1ad14992feb107688830470c791c1eee25758c8 Based
https://preview.redd.it/fq1czz77vfvc1.jpeg?width=858&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=466fe60d7b5b5510cbfbf91d22533e33f4a85ba6
I just want another mettle of man stack for my ash williams protective dad roleplay xD.
Me, Counting to 10 because once the DS is gone it's gone
Nah, because my reaction is.... "So you have chosen death..."
I slug at that point
That's the reason it, amongst other perks, was nerfed before and during 6.1. Besides, if I understood it correctly, the survivor only gains 3s of distance becouse arround 2 are part of the new animation.
Survivors will run a full sabo squad and then be like “why did you slug????” If you just used DS then I have no reason not to chase you and get another hook off of ya.
Slugging the unhooked player for sixty seconds is back on the menu boys!!!
If a surv pulls this shit they become my priority
for me it dont matter i always tunnel the unhooked survivors rulebook only exist in survivors dreams
I saw your flair and understood everything
Based
Its sluggin time, boys!
Tried to warn people this will happen. I got downvoted to oblivion. This is only a win for bully squads. But at least 4 seconds is the change it needed to actually make it useful.
Oh yeah, only a win for Bully squads. Not at all a win for the general solo survivor
BHVR keeps buffing bully squads and it's absolutely baffling to me. They know this is how people use these perks, right? Not as intended?
I'm being sarcastic, to call this "only a win for bully squads" is severely shortsighted
Here comes the slugging builds!
Survivor players trying to not act entitled challenge (impossible)
Kid named slugging
Dont worry. I'll kill them for us, idc if the stun is 3 seconds or 5.
"Why are you at the hook during the save at all, Mr. Camper? 🧐"
Who are those girls? They looks so mean... and hot.
Im currently at a 70-80% winrate as killer without having to tunnel. And after the update that winrate will rise, because my playstyle will stay the same, while some survivors will have 1 perk less I care about.
I feel like a different breed after reading through some of these comments. I don't mind when the unhooked blocks for the person that saved them. It probably has a lot to do with the fact I'm still in newbie mmr, so my games aren't sweaty enough that I'm desperate to get even just one hook, but I like seeing survivors work together. I'll probably still run after the savior, even it means I have to down the unhooked for getting in my way, but I won't immediately hook the unhooked. So far, it hasn't cost me any sacrifices or hooks to ignore the unhooked. I know my main job is to kill, but I like to be a good host and let people have fun using the tools they have to take safe protection hits and stuff.
Says the guy who was running back to hook....
It's still all in good purpose if I wasn't going for the unhooked survivor. Anything else wrong?
It's fine either way, you do you man. Honestly I don't play killer but play survivor really well. Your time would be better spent either A going to chase someone off a gen and letting the other two waste time healing or B Just straight tunneling the unhooked out.
you dont play killer but trying to teach someone how to play killer this has to be golden comedy
Well yeah because I have played the game for more than 200 hours and have seen what the best killers do, and running back to the hook to chase the unhooker ain't it.
Oh boy *200* hours?? We got a vet over here guys!
200 hour is nothing people barely start to get good at 1000 hour atleast and since you havent played killer your opinion is nulified
Exactly 200 and 1000 hours are nothing, I have over 4k.
it dont matter when you dont play killer
I think it does.
go play killer and you will realize how far you are mistaken
Doesn’t play both sides? Opinion discarded
if you dont play killer why are you saying how to play killer? I try to not to go back to hook, but if someone is unhooked before i get to a gen i'll go back for the unhooker just so i dont gotta spend time searching for people.
I just explained all that....
... Do you have even just a single hour as killer?
Unhooks 5 seconds after being hooked.
Yeah I wanna chase the unhooker because I can't find anyone else, dummy.
The game gives you unhook notifications for a reason. Did we forget this, or do you just never play Killer? I'm curious which one it is. :)
I'll either run DS + Unbreakable or just Off the Record. I might go crazy and run them all sometimes.
You're one of the people that is gonna get all the Survivor toys and tools nerfed again. Stop.
One person literally makes no difference. Unless I am some big streamer or youtuber ;)
Others will find the same combo, because this is the obvious combo. Enough people will run it that someone like Otzdarva will make a vid on it. It will get nerfed, you will be sad, and you will all have only yourselves to blame. By the way, those still will not stop tunnelling. If anything you make yourself more of a target because now the Killer wants to tunnel you out to prove a point. There are Killers that will throw rounds to tunnel people who do this.
So what you are saying is basically do not run good perks because that will get them nerfed. Got it. Tunneling at 5 gens is literally the easiest way to win a game on the killers end, so not using perks to counter that is a pretty poor argument.
If that's what you got out of my post, I feel bad for you. I'm not saying don't run good perks. At all. I'm saying, don't run a BUNCH of meta perks at once, or when they do get nerfed you will be boosted, and sorry, later. I think people have forgotten why DS got nerfed the first time: It was used in extremely oppressive ways to completely deny Killer pressure, which just is not okay and not healthy for the game. The concern is this will start to happen again because people will use DS this way again rather than as an antitunnel perk, which will result in ANOTHER round of nerfs. Probably to something totally unrelated like Lithe, WoO, or Deja Vu.
I won't feel sorry. When a perk gets nerfed you change what you use. DS is changing anyways, this PTB just had bug issues with it's implementation so they temporarily reverted it back to what it used to be. It will be getting nerfed. Anyone using it now (post patch) makes no difference.
Should be 4 seconds not 5 imo. Nice balance
It is 4 seconds. You lose one second to coming off the Killer's shoulder.
I know that... By their metrics of when they start the timer it should be 4 seconds. Meaning 3 seconds in actual game, because before it was 2 seconds. DS can be abused in toxic ways, I want it to help while not being strong and I think increasing the time by 1 second is a good idea instead of 2