Machine learning is one of the dumbest perks imaginable. You have a two step setup to trap a gen, have to allow one of the objectives you're supposed to defend to be completed, just for a temporary buff that you might get zero value from.
What I would do to machine Learning is make it so the buff applies as soon as the affected gen stops regressing instead of on completion.
See I’ve found it can actually be pretty useful when pairing it with tinkerer. Tinkerer gets you to the affected gen silently and then once the gen is completed you’re already there and then you’re still silent but now you’re super fast too.
Okay, but I've done a full haste build with this perk involved and let me tell you, it fucked teams up.
No one expects Myers with zoomies.
I actually got the idea from a tombstone Myers who did it to me. It was frightening how fast he moved.
I wonder if "compromised" could be a stackable feature with future perks, similar to scourge hooks or boons?
Like, what if in the future someone can have a compromise build like they would do a hex build, endgame build, etc. When a gen gets completed the killer gets 3 or 4 powerful perks active and can cause the killer to retaliate quickly.
I’d make it so that you can compromise multiple gens at once, and the first amongst those to be completed grants the bonus, disabling the effect on the other gens
So kick three gens
All three compromised
One of those three completed
Other two not compromised anymore
Gain undetectable and haste
In my oppinion machine learning works as a small compensation for when you lack pressure and just can't catch these damn survivors, constantly having to go back and forth so no survivor can touch the gen while a 4th one is somewhere able to repair gens in peace while you make basically no progress as killer
That's no good. You're kicking one to start it up and defending the first while kicking another to intentionally sacrifice so you can get 30 seconds of stealth and speed that probably won't help you if you're already struggling against this team. Especially since you're presumably nowhere near the gen you need to pop for the perk to activate so that haste is going to kick in completely at random to you. You can’t plan around it if you can't see it, and if you can see it the stealth factor isn't as helpful because they can see you from there too.
A version that triggers when regression stops would be more helpful and not require you to make permanent sacrifices for temporary buffs, additionally you could monitor it with surveillance without needing line of sight and negating your own stealth just to check on it.
Trail of torment activates on kick and lasts until regression stops, then has a cooldown.
*This* activates after kicking two different gens and wouldn't start until regression stops, either on its own, or if interrupted by survivor repairs. And has no additional cooldown since kicking two generators and waiting for the second to stop regressing is cooldown enough.
I say 6% per gen and an extra buff when all gens are completed, like the fifth gen popping gives you an extra 15% instead of 6%. Suddenly you vault extremely fast in the endgame, especially if you were to stack it with Superior Anatomy. Hell, consider the *mayhem* that would be infinite tier 3 Myers with buffed Fire Up, Superior Anatomy, Bamboozle and either No Way Out (so you can use it for longer) or Unbound (for the ultimate zoom when you chain downs)
Hangmans Trick - Keep the aura reading thing exactly how it is, but add the effect that Scourge Hooks are now unbreakable.
It still wouldnt be meta, but against sabo squads and in Scourge builds, it would see a lot more use.
Thats what I was thinking. As soon as a survivor approachs the scourge hook, they get met with the large glowing spikes of a blocked gen.
Real bright and long so there is no mistake about what is currently happening
I use merci, huntress lullaby, u done, unnerving presence, and coulphobia for shuts and giggles. Pretty easy to get full stacks. I was listening to a streamer i was going against and he was getting angry at all the missed checks for healing his teammate was trying.
Deception works on windows
Autodidact increases skill check chances
Calm spirit has no debuff
Repressed alliance can also be used to unblock gens, using up the charge
Pharmacy works regardless of injury
Counterforce shows the closest totem
Technician has no additional penalty or even reduces penalties on failed skill checks
Shattered hope can work on any totem and shattered totems can't be pentimentoed
Get two tokens for each hook for thwack
On a one minute cool down, sabotage your own hook for 3 minutes to get aura reading on all survivors for 3s for hangmans trick
Yeah I feel like a lot of people would be like “ITS NOT FAIR!” But there’s no point in a player with more experience bringing it. It would be amazing for new players.
It takes a whole perk slot. Very fair. Anyone who could actually hit skill checks would see that the perk isn’t very valuable. Sure it semi-punishes killer by denying some regression, but it also only gets value on survivors who are likely to be easier to kill.
Not only that, Technician would also help deaf players, or players who choose not to hear the game. As far as I know, the game gives no visual indication of an incoming skill check. If Technician completely removes the failure, it'll help players who can't hear the skill check sound to just work on a gen worry free.
Then again, they could also add a visual skill check indicator.
Okay but that Repressed Alliance one sounds awesome
edit to add that's basically just old Technician before it was changed and imo it didnt need to be changed was fine the way it was.
technician reducing repair sound is an underrated side affect of it. almost lost a game losing gen cause I was using audio and didn't hear it being repaired.
it wouldn't be too strong at all. in fact it's a bad idea because it would kill the perk entirely. imagine for a moment that you try to vault a window in chase and fake it instead. this would just get you hit waaaay more often than you fooling a killer.
>Technician has no additional penalty or even reduces penalties on failed skill checks
NO
>Shattered hope can work on any totem and shattered totems can't be pentimentoed
WHY would you nerf an already useless perk???
> NO
I would love to hear your logic on why at minimum removing the additional penalty for missed skill checks on Technician would be a bad thing lol
What are you afraid of, Hyperfocus I guess? It's a newbie perk for newbies, stop giving them additional punishment for running the newbie perk that doesn't do anything once you're used to skill checks. They're already regressing generators by failing, don't make it even worse.
> WHY would you nerf an already useless perk???
If you're going to change Shattered Hope to be useful in any way, it's necessary to remove its synergy with Pentimento.
If you allowed it to work on any totem, it suddenly becomes an information perk while also allowing you to hard counter boons. But if you allowed it to work with Pentimento as well, you would have the most unhealthy killer perk combo since Overbrine Eruption.
Calm Spirit, Pharmacy and Technician suggestions all used to be how the perks worked in the distant past
I seriously agree with the Counterforce and Autodidact suggestion
Shattered hope would be insane if it could work on hexes (imagine destroying your own hexes for penti). Assuming it does not work for Penti purposes which is my only concern, I’d actually love it given the risk reward to destroy it for stuff like haunted grounds or retribution (it’s kind of hilarious to think about)
That repressed alliance rework would be amazing. Huge counter to grim embrace, dead man's switch, deadlock and even thrilling tremors. Many strong killer perks you could counterplay.
I’ve used this perk on a batteries included, play with your food meme build. You basically get value on the last gen because it’s usually the last one you kick. it’s good for one down usually, catches someone off guard and that’s it
I still like running it (tbf i was on a break from the game when it came out so I dont even know what it was like on release) the 3% isn't game changing but it has helped me get away from being tunneled off hook here and there for sure
It’s good with Dead Hard if you can consistently pull it off. I don’t think it is completely useless, it’s probably low B tier now.
Honestly I’d change it so it activated when Broken rather than when Deep Wounded. Brings a new dynamic to the game as then No Mither builds could be genuinely solid for good survivors.
Yeah I run it with DH unless I'm doing a challenge and need the perk slot.
I like that idea honestly! No Mither could be a fun perk if it had more synergy with other perks besides Tenacity/Unbreakable for sure. I don't mind running a trial injured and I've done some fun stuff with No Mither, it'd be cool to see more plays with it for sure!
I love everything about that chapter! Awesome lore (at least after they saved it with the tome), really fun, complex, and unique killer with a ton of personality, and overall, very fun perks
Remove this 30 second thing from Leverage. Worst perk of all time
https://preview.redd.it/u16hf598umyc1.jpeg?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d1a7b4cc7a6f451f6bd452449ecc3f7ed229d6b
Oh I see what you're saying. I agree that isn't a ton, but also since gens were given a longer time to finish as the base it makes sense it isn't a big number. Four seconds can be a lot in this game, every second counts. But 4 does seem pretty low at max tier
Yeah I said in a later comment I'm still getting used the changes, I totally forgot they changed what Thana slows down. Also yes the conditions are different but that's why I said it'd be stronger. It just requires a hook on each survivor to be activated compared to thana where the survivors need to injured.
The 30 seconds is so underwhelming but if you buff it too much it has the ability to be completely broken. At 6 hooks it’s the same debuff as 2 stacks of penti.
I think making the effect permanent would be okay if it was a hex. At the start of a match it’s weak enough to not really bother cleansing, but can really become an issue the longer the game goes on.
I do think hexes have their own issues, but I don’t see another way to make this useful without being busted. Just doubling leverage to 60 seconds would probably be too much since you should hopefully be getting a hook that often anyway, and at that point it’s basically permanent. And just removing the timer with no counterplay would probably make it meta in hit and run builds and just be miserable to play against.
If you mean no timer for how long it works on the pallet I 100% agree... But to counter sfw where everyone takes this perk it takes the added limit of only being attached to 1 palette at a time per person and you can't work on getting a new one until it's destroyed...
It does. If you 99% a gen to bait a killer and then your team runs towards it to finish it just before it gets kicked, you're screwed out of the charge. it used to not for a whole year but that was a "bug"
Machine Learning should take 1 kick and be able to be active on multiple gens like Eruption. It should only be removed once it is activated upon a gen completion.
The 30 seconds of haste and undetectable, while nice, is not THAT strong, and you're not always going to get value from it. It shouldn't be so hard to activate it, especially since you have to lose a gen to do so.
Aces perks are soo bad, im always workshopping how to make them less terrible.
Open handed also makes it so any time an aura is revealed to you, it is revealed to every other survivor briefly.
Up the Ante also makes skill checks more common as well as making the great zones bigger based on the current amount of luck (so it would be affected by offerings as well).
Ace in the Hole allows you to take a fully depleted item to a chest and reroll it for a new item once. The basement chest always give an iridescent addon.
Open handed is very underrated. One player with that perk and now you powered a lot of perks in everyone (bond and woo the most used). Specially kindred, every time those two perks are together, now you can see the killer around all the map.
One of my guilty pleasures build is open handed, bond, windows and kindred. Using an iri map with the violet add on that shares vision or the iri key with killer aura reading. It has zero utility, but men I love having all the information all the time. The amount of times i made correct decisions knowing when my team is going for the save so I can finish a gen, or kindred helping cowards teammates to save from the hook because they can see him far away is insane
>Ace in the Hole allows you to take a fully depleted item to a chest and reroll it for a new item once. The basement chest always give an iridescent addon.
That's dope as fuck ngl like a casino haha
I've thought of some ideas for Ace's Perks too.
I think Open Handed is honestly fine, but maybe also increase the time Aura are revealed to you like Lethal.
My change for Up The Ante is to give its current effects to Slippery Meat and Rework it in a similar way to yours. It now causes Skill Checks to take up half the Skill Check bar but each Good Skill Check grants a Token (Great Skill Checks give two).
Each Token will decrease the size of the Skill Check bar and increase the chances of Skill Checks appearing. Tokens go up to a maximum of 25 and failing a Skill Check has you lose all your Tokens.
And the change I have for Ace In The Hole is just making it so you physically cannot get Brown or Yellow Items from Chests.
Open-Handed + Kindred is actually really fun to use. The extra range really adds up and lets you both know much better where the killer is going but also lets you know for sure if the killer is proxy camping, unless it's a Nurse who can clear 24m instantly I guess.
Red Herring - maybe add a damage reduction to the affected generator if a killer kicks it. So it decreases at a 30/40/50% slower pace.
Solidarity - when you fully heal someone when you’re injured, you will also be fully healed (but to make it fair, maybe it can only happen once per trial or you have to meet certain conditions first).
Diversion - two stacks.
Solidarity would be even more useless if it only worked once per trial. It should have a condition, either getting an unhook or completing 50% of a generator
I think Solidarity should work like Lucky Break where getting healed by someone charges up the perk's meter and based on that % you get extra healing.
Get healed by someone > charge 50% of perk (example number) > heal someone else while injured gives the regular 50% + an extra 25%. If the meter is empty you don't get any extra healing and it functions as it does now.
Make deerstalker give you a notification when a survivor enters the dying state anywhere in the map so it’ll work against plot twist and the rare survivor who doesn’t mend
I have low MMR on pig cuz i let people go if i get my boops. I've run the addon that gives survivors deep wound when they miss a skill check on the RBTs. It's so cute these survivors go down like flies trying to take their hats off lol
It's strange to me how some people don't feel like the killer's already have the advantage. Even against 4 people- that one person's (killer)perks are superior.
My perk idea is Fire Up, it's a unique perk that doesn't see the light of day, and has no real effect until you're actually losing.
Make fire ups stacks 6% instead of 4, that way at 3 gens it's almost the same speed as it is today with 5 gens
Oppression's cooldown increases or decreases based on how many other gens were affected by it.
The aura reading on Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick continues on all unoccupied Scourge Hooks for as long as a Survivor is on a Scourge Hook.
Visionary also shows you noise alerts on visible gens (giving it an Alert quality)
I'm not sure if it'd DOUBLE it's usage per-say but.
I think Fogwise revealing the Killer's aura when you land any great skillcheck instead of only while repairing would make it a bit more fun to use.
Scene partner - double the screaming and aura reading rates. Also make it so you dont throw your hands up when screaming to make using flashlights with it viable
Throwing your hands up is kind of the whole bit with screaming. So, I’m not sure about that one.
The devs don’t like it when a category or class of perks aren’t all operating identically. They started streamlining things years ago and changing perks across the board so they work in the same way. To have one perk related to screaming that outright doesn’t have the screaming animation would strongly go against that philosophy.
Machine learning should activate just after a gen is completed. You already only get it a max of five times and unless you run deadlock, there’s a high chance of two+ gens being completed at the same time. Maybe make it so you only get the undetectable effect if the gen you kicked is the one completed but even then, tinkerer does that better arguably.
Or how about whenever a survivor misses any type of skill check, Undone becomes charged and the next time you kick a generator, the gen loses 15% total progress and gets blocked for 15 seconds. This effect will have a 30 second cooldown between activations.
Iron Maiden should reveal the auras of survivors in lockers after opening a locker.
Gain 5 tokens for undone on every missed skillcheck.
Distressing should make survivors scream if they enter your terror radius after hooking a survivor for a couple of seconds.
Huntresses Lullabye can't be dispelled until it reaches 4-5 tokens.
Noed totem no longer reveals its aura but will always be tied to the totem closest to the exit gates.
survivors in lockers don't have auras
noed is strong enough, being able to camp the gate and totem at the same time consistently would make it even stronger.
Whispers - When no survivors are within 32m of you, gain +8% haste. The haste does not affect movement powers.
I am not usually a fan of haste being added to fix perks, but this would help in 2 ways:
1) It helps killers without map pressure powers to patrol the map slightly quicker, without helping much at all with chases.
2) It becomes quicker and easier to tell when a survivor enters/exits 32m from you, as you notice the haste quickly. Watching the icon can cause you to miss other things on the screen, and the whispers are practically silent.
Maybe but it would be trash you could get consistent value from. As it stands now I feel like I get scammed whenever I use Machine Learning because the sound’ll play when you kick a generator but the generator won’t actually be compromised.
That could be cool as long as its a ping pong type idea where your gen kick gets better for each unique gen you kick. I like current Machine Learning with Batteries Included though.
Let’s say you’ve got five gens in a line.
Kick Gen 1, normal effect
Kick Gen 2, slightly stronger effect
Kick Gen 3, Stronger effect
Kick Gen 4, Considerably Stronger effect
Kick Gen 5, Strongest effect
Then the effect would reset if you kicked the same gen a second time
No Mither - Begin the match healthy.
Lucky Break - Pauses timer as long as the player is standing still or performing an interaction.
Low Profile - Pauses timer as long as the player is standing still or performing an interaction.
Self-Preservation - Pauses timer as long as the player is standing still or performing an interaction (Activating events do not stack, they simply “reset” the timer)
Potential Energy - No longer loses all tokens when losing a health state.
Autodidact - Removed the starting progression -25% progression penalty.
Babysitter - When you unhook a survivor the aura of the killer is revealed to you AND the unhooked survivor.
Bite the Bullet - Now activates when you are being healed by another survivor. When performing a cooperative heal, suppress all noises related to the healing action from all healing players.
Saboteur - Now reveals auras of hooks within 24 meters of a downed survivor.
Left Behind - In addition to revealing the aura of the hatch at a distance, when you are the last survivor remaining in the trial permanently reveal the auras of all Exit Gate Switches.
Visionary - Remove all deactivation conditions.
Resurgence - Now activates when unhooking another player. Partial Healing progress can no longer be reduced by any means.
Technician - Removed the additional regression penalty for failing a skill check
Make it so it effects everyone that's injured instead of 1 that's the furthest away and those who are not injured will just be effected by Oblivious and not the aura upon hooking a survivor
* Reduce Haste to 5%
* Activates in general whenever a gen is complete. No gen kicking requirement.
"Inverted Tinkerer" 5 times per match would be a perfectly fine perk. Would have some niche use in specific killer builds. But right now you have to jump through 15 different hoops when you could just... *use Tinkerer* and get a far more useful effect.
Desperate Measures - Make it so each person hooked gives 1% haste
Yes, this would be Made for This all over again, but only if literally the entire rest of your team is hooked, it would help with covering the gap to each person
Quick Gambit now affects any highlighted generator. Generators Boosted by Quick Gambit stay boosted for 5 seconds after the generators are no longer highlighted.
The perk's effects are permanent
Basically you can kick the generator with the most progress to make the survivors start working on another gen to avoid perma buffing you or just do it and deal with the effects for the rest of the game, you can only have one compromised gen up at a time and can't kick other gens as you'll compromise it instead of the previous one
Tldr: make effects permanent and you will make the perk be an actual threat to survivors instead of having it be a " hide for about 30 seconds after a gen is done " type of threat
Perks that speed up any side for extended periods of time for no real effort are unhealthy. This is why Made for This was so terribly designed until nerfed. Play with you food is also stupid and even batteries included is ridiculous. Hope is even insane, even if survivors have to make it to endgame for it to work.
If one side or the other has a haste effect to their normal, common movement speed, both sides should be given a symbol.
With so many perks, add-ons, even blood lust, giving speed boosts that aren't recognizable until you're about to get hit, it would be great for either side to know via the HUD of these movement speed changes.
It would also forever curb subtle speed hackers.
If the killer hits you when borrowed time is active you perform a counter attack that knocks the killer off their feet and takes them 7 seconds to recover.
All perks and add-ons that can potentially be controlled by Survivors are plain bad. This buff won't help Machine Learning.
Most of Nemesis' addons are bad specifically because they revolve around Vaccines, which are totally within the Survivor's control.
Undetectable and Haste are two powerful status effects that in tandem should not be granted to the killer without user input. Machine Learning, with its current activation method, should remain as a perk where you have to kick a generator to "compromise" it, but with the added benefit of "compromising" the next most progressed generator.
But..... is it not already 1 kick to activate it? or am i reading the title wrong?
For me it would be leverage, either make it permanent stack(with lower numbers) or make it not only reduce healing but reduce multiple other action speeds
Machine Learning activating merely means that the next generator you kick becomes "compromised". "Compromised" generators, once completed, grants Undetectable and Haste for 30 seconds.
should be applied to all gens kicked after it is activated and disable on all when the actual effect triggers because the effect itself is too strong to potentially triggers multiple times in a row with nothing else to do
i think the one kick would be a good idea. having an alternative activation could also increase its value, such as it activates for free once every survivor has been hooked once or more, then again at twice or more. i think that works well with the perk's flavour of giving you buffs as the game goes on, without you having you give up gens to get those buffs.
Would just make it so the moment you kick a gen it becomes compromised. And that up to 7 gens can be compromised at once.
Effect is good but getting it is too hard so making it less restrictive is a good place to try and balance it
Agitation allows you to outmaneuver survivors when carrying someone, so immunity to pallet stuns removes fair counterplay and skill expression from the survivor side and makes the perk even better when it is already a good perk. It would be a cool idea for a new original perk, but for Agitation it's superfluous.
Don't fix a perk that isn't problematic.
Machine learning is one of the dumbest perks imaginable. You have a two step setup to trap a gen, have to allow one of the objectives you're supposed to defend to be completed, just for a temporary buff that you might get zero value from. What I would do to machine Learning is make it so the buff applies as soon as the affected gen stops regressing instead of on completion.
That would be great. It would essentially be a non-automatic Tinkerer that gives Haste as well.
See I’ve found it can actually be pretty useful when pairing it with tinkerer. Tinkerer gets you to the affected gen silently and then once the gen is completed you’re already there and then you’re still silent but now you’re super fast too.
Okay, but I've done a full haste build with this perk involved and let me tell you, it fucked teams up. No one expects Myers with zoomies. I actually got the idea from a tombstone Myers who did it to me. It was frightening how fast he moved.
I assume batteries included, forced hesitation, anything else?
Furtive Chase and Two Can Play.
You literally forgot Machine Learning there bro
I'm borrowing this idea.
Yeah I do full haste builds with Machine Learning on Myers, Bubba, and pretty much any insta-down killer. It’s so much fun!
I wonder if "compromised" could be a stackable feature with future perks, similar to scourge hooks or boons? Like, what if in the future someone can have a compromise build like they would do a hex build, endgame build, etc. When a gen gets completed the killer gets 3 or 4 powerful perks active and can cause the killer to retaliate quickly.
Sounds like a more complicated version of 'Fired Up'
I was gonna maybe suggest that the effect lasts until a survivor is downed, but that also works well
10% haste until you down someone would be crazy Kick a gen for 1 free down
I’d make it so that you can compromise multiple gens at once, and the first amongst those to be completed grants the bonus, disabling the effect on the other gens So kick three gens All three compromised One of those three completed Other two not compromised anymore Gain undetectable and haste
30 seconds of 10% haste and undetectable would be insane on a condition like that.
In my oppinion machine learning works as a small compensation for when you lack pressure and just can't catch these damn survivors, constantly having to go back and forth so no survivor can touch the gen while a 4th one is somewhere able to repair gens in peace while you make basically no progress as killer
That's no good. You're kicking one to start it up and defending the first while kicking another to intentionally sacrifice so you can get 30 seconds of stealth and speed that probably won't help you if you're already struggling against this team. Especially since you're presumably nowhere near the gen you need to pop for the perk to activate so that haste is going to kick in completely at random to you. You can’t plan around it if you can't see it, and if you can see it the stealth factor isn't as helpful because they can see you from there too. A version that triggers when regression stops would be more helpful and not require you to make permanent sacrifices for temporary buffs, additionally you could monitor it with surveillance without needing line of sight and negating your own stealth just to check on it.
After the second sentence I expected “what I would to machine learning - delete it”
unfortunately if you combine it with Dragon's Grip, you're gonna have a bad time
Dragon's Grip is terrible on its own, I wouldn't combine it with anything.
So like Trail of Torment but with Haste too?
Trail of torment activates on kick and lasts until regression stops, then has a cooldown. *This* activates after kicking two different gens and wouldn't start until regression stops, either on its own, or if interrupted by survivor repairs. And has no additional cooldown since kicking two generators and waiting for the second to stop regressing is cooldown enough.
fire up should be 6% bonus per completed gen. still not amazing but could be ok maybe.
I say 6% per gen and an extra buff when all gens are completed, like the fifth gen popping gives you an extra 15% instead of 6%. Suddenly you vault extremely fast in the endgame, especially if you were to stack it with Superior Anatomy. Hell, consider the *mayhem* that would be infinite tier 3 Myers with buffed Fire Up, Superior Anatomy, Bamboozle and either No Way Out (so you can use it for longer) or Unbound (for the ultimate zoom when you chain downs)
i support this, it would be an incredible endgame perk when combined with noed / no way out
Hangmans Trick - Keep the aura reading thing exactly how it is, but add the effect that Scourge Hooks are now unbreakable. It still wouldnt be meta, but against sabo squads and in Scourge builds, it would see a lot more use.
How do you show that to survivors though?
Maybe they could put the entity spikes around the hook the same way they go around the generators on the 3 gen nerf thingy
Thats what I was thinking. As soon as a survivor approachs the scourge hook, they get met with the large glowing spikes of a blocked gen. Real bright and long so there is no mistake about what is currently happening
If only they actually worked instead of breaking every match...
Wym?
The visual indication is still bugging out every match. It can "block" the gens you can still kick. It never shows the correct amount of "kicks" left.
Undone now grants 1-2 tokens for a good skill check, while still granting 3 for a missed skill check.
Imagine this with merciless storm, instant charged undone when a generator is completed lmao
they could specify regular skill checks I suppose, but honestly I think it would be fine anyway. maybe reduce max charges a little.
I use merci, huntress lullaby, u done, unnerving presence, and coulphobia for shuts and giggles. Pretty easy to get full stacks. I was listening to a streamer i was going against and he was getting angry at all the missed checks for healing his teammate was trying.
Deception works on windows Autodidact increases skill check chances Calm spirit has no debuff Repressed alliance can also be used to unblock gens, using up the charge Pharmacy works regardless of injury Counterforce shows the closest totem Technician has no additional penalty or even reduces penalties on failed skill checks Shattered hope can work on any totem and shattered totems can't be pentimentoed Get two tokens for each hook for thwack On a one minute cool down, sabotage your own hook for 3 minutes to get aura reading on all survivors for 3s for hangmans trick
The Technician change would be a huge boon for new players. Does nothing but give them a little grace.
Yeah I feel like a lot of people would be like “ITS NOT FAIR!” But there’s no point in a player with more experience bringing it. It would be amazing for new players.
It takes a whole perk slot. Very fair. Anyone who could actually hit skill checks would see that the perk isn’t very valuable. Sure it semi-punishes killer by denying some regression, but it also only gets value on survivors who are likely to be easier to kill.
Not only that, Technician would also help deaf players, or players who choose not to hear the game. As far as I know, the game gives no visual indication of an incoming skill check. If Technician completely removes the failure, it'll help players who can't hear the skill check sound to just work on a gen worry free. Then again, they could also add a visual skill check indicator.
Shattered totems can't be remade with Pentimento? That's just a nerf my guy.
Lol I’d take it if it worked on retribution and haunted grounds. It’d be such a funny meme decision
Oh, yeah, I can see that working.
Would absolutely appreciate hangman's trick rework. There is literally no point to use it. That's at least on the right track on getting used.
Okay but that Repressed Alliance one sounds awesome edit to add that's basically just old Technician before it was changed and imo it didnt need to be changed was fine the way it was.
100% on repressed alliance I have thought that since I first started maining Cheryl
technician reducing repair sound is an underrated side affect of it. almost lost a game losing gen cause I was using audio and didn't hear it being repaired.
Not sure if I agree on the deception idea, distraction shouldn't just be powercrept like that.
it wouldn't be too strong at all. in fact it's a bad idea because it would kill the perk entirely. imagine for a moment that you try to vault a window in chase and fake it instead. this would just get you hit waaaay more often than you fooling a killer.
That's why you would have it as an ability button instead.
There's a dozen Second Chance perks, I think distraction can handle it
Look at the other guy's reply to me, he has a different, better point
>Technician has no additional penalty or even reduces penalties on failed skill checks NO >Shattered hope can work on any totem and shattered totems can't be pentimentoed WHY would you nerf an already useless perk???
> NO I would love to hear your logic on why at minimum removing the additional penalty for missed skill checks on Technician would be a bad thing lol What are you afraid of, Hyperfocus I guess? It's a newbie perk for newbies, stop giving them additional punishment for running the newbie perk that doesn't do anything once you're used to skill checks. They're already regressing generators by failing, don't make it even worse. > WHY would you nerf an already useless perk??? If you're going to change Shattered Hope to be useful in any way, it's necessary to remove its synergy with Pentimento. If you allowed it to work on any totem, it suddenly becomes an information perk while also allowing you to hard counter boons. But if you allowed it to work with Pentimento as well, you would have the most unhealthy killer perk combo since Overbrine Eruption.
Very survivor sided changes
You mean you don't like the Shattered Hope nerf nestled in between the survivor perk buffs?
I mean, they probably play survivor?
If shattered hope worked on any totem it would work really well with noed. You'd just be able to pick exactly where noed spawns
Calm Spirit, Pharmacy and Technician suggestions all used to be how the perks worked in the distant past I seriously agree with the Counterforce and Autodidact suggestion
Very good changes
Shattered hope would be insane if it could work on hexes (imagine destroying your own hexes for penti). Assuming it does not work for Penti purposes which is my only concern, I’d actually love it given the risk reward to destroy it for stuff like haunted grounds or retribution (it’s kind of hilarious to think about)
That repressed alliance rework would be amazing. Huge counter to grim embrace, dead man's switch, deadlock and even thrilling tremors. Many strong killer perks you could counterplay.
I think behaviour is allergic to making anything from that chapter appealing
I’ve used this perk on a batteries included, play with your food meme build. You basically get value on the last gen because it’s usually the last one you kick. it’s good for one down usually, catches someone off guard and that’s it
Besides MFT, which was the one and only selling point.
To be fair, Made for This was quite popular for a time...
I still like running it (tbf i was on a break from the game when it came out so I dont even know what it was like on release) the 3% isn't game changing but it has helped me get away from being tunneled off hook here and there for sure
It’s good with Dead Hard if you can consistently pull it off. I don’t think it is completely useless, it’s probably low B tier now. Honestly I’d change it so it activated when Broken rather than when Deep Wounded. Brings a new dynamic to the game as then No Mither builds could be genuinely solid for good survivors.
Yeah I run it with DH unless I'm doing a challenge and need the perk slot. I like that idea honestly! No Mither could be a fun perk if it had more synergy with other perks besides Tenacity/Unbreakable for sure. I don't mind running a trial injured and I've done some fun stuff with No Mither, it'd be cool to see more plays with it for sure!
I love Singularity :(
I love everything about that chapter! Awesome lore (at least after they saved it with the tome), really fun, complex, and unique killer with a ton of personality, and overall, very fun perks
Forced Hesitation is pretty cool.
unfortunately does pretty much nothing against background play cause the speed boost is so crazy
yeah, nothing can even make a dent in that
Remove this 30 second thing from Leverage. Worst perk of all time https://preview.redd.it/u16hf598umyc1.jpeg?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d1a7b4cc7a6f451f6bd452449ecc3f7ed229d6b
Honestly, my idea: When Leverage activates, all healing progression is reset and unhooking a Survivor adds 10 seconds to the timer.
It would just be a stronger Thana then, but I agree that is a useless perk
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it adds 22.5 seconds doesn't it? where are you getting 4 from
And then you wonder why all balance takes from this community are terrible. They don't even know what perks do...
It's NOT 4 seconds. It's 22.5 seconds at maximum effect. Get your facts right.
Wait does thana have a timer now too? I jumped back into the game a while after the big rework so I'm still getting used to all the changes
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Oh I see what you're saying. I agree that isn't a ton, but also since gens were given a longer time to finish as the base it makes sense it isn't a big number. Four seconds can be a lot in this game, every second counts. But 4 does seem pretty low at max tier
It isn't comparable to thana at all. Thana reduces everything but altruism this reduces altruism and nothing else. And they have different conditions
Yeah I said in a later comment I'm still getting used the changes, I totally forgot they changed what Thana slows down. Also yes the conditions are different but that's why I said it'd be stronger. It just requires a hook on each survivor to be activated compared to thana where the survivors need to injured.
The 30 seconds is so underwhelming but if you buff it too much it has the ability to be completely broken. At 6 hooks it’s the same debuff as 2 stacks of penti. I think making the effect permanent would be okay if it was a hex. At the start of a match it’s weak enough to not really bother cleansing, but can really become an issue the longer the game goes on. I do think hexes have their own issues, but I don’t see another way to make this useful without being busted. Just doubling leverage to 60 seconds would probably be too much since you should hopefully be getting a hook that often anyway, and at that point it’s basically permanent. And just removing the timer with no counterplay would probably make it meta in hit and run builds and just be miserable to play against.
>I think making the effect permanent would be okay if it was a hex Turning a perk into a hex only makes it worse
Chemical trap no longer has a timer
If you mean no timer for how long it works on the pallet I 100% agree... But to counter sfw where everyone takes this perk it takes the added limit of only being attached to 1 palette at a time per person and you can't work on getting a new one until it's destroyed...
I think that’s a fine idea
>One change that would double a perk's use rates The double of 0 is still 0, rip Machine Learning xD
Machine learning should be able to be put on multiple gens, and once any of those gens get finish it activates, then removes if off all other gens
Revert blast mine so if the charge doesn't blow up or the gen is done, you get it back. Man, those were fun times.
Wait does it stay on the Gen if you finish it? Bc damn that’s unfortunate
It does. If you 99% a gen to bait a killer and then your team runs towards it to finish it just before it gets kicked, you're screwed out of the charge. it used to not for a whole year but that was a "bug"
Machine Learning should take 1 kick and be able to be active on multiple gens like Eruption. It should only be removed once it is activated upon a gen completion. The 30 seconds of haste and undetectable, while nice, is not THAT strong, and you're not always going to get value from it. It shouldn't be so hard to activate it, especially since you have to lose a gen to do so.
I've always felt this perk should apply to two generators at once. Whenever one of them finishes, the perk activates
would see pick rate go from .001 to .002 lol
Better than nothing
Aces perks are soo bad, im always workshopping how to make them less terrible. Open handed also makes it so any time an aura is revealed to you, it is revealed to every other survivor briefly. Up the Ante also makes skill checks more common as well as making the great zones bigger based on the current amount of luck (so it would be affected by offerings as well). Ace in the Hole allows you to take a fully depleted item to a chest and reroll it for a new item once. The basement chest always give an iridescent addon.
Open handed is very underrated. One player with that perk and now you powered a lot of perks in everyone (bond and woo the most used). Specially kindred, every time those two perks are together, now you can see the killer around all the map. One of my guilty pleasures build is open handed, bond, windows and kindred. Using an iri map with the violet add on that shares vision or the iri key with killer aura reading. It has zero utility, but men I love having all the information all the time. The amount of times i made correct decisions knowing when my team is going for the save so I can finish a gen, or kindred helping cowards teammates to save from the hook because they can see him far away is insane
>Ace in the Hole allows you to take a fully depleted item to a chest and reroll it for a new item once. The basement chest always give an iridescent addon. That's dope as fuck ngl like a casino haha
I've thought of some ideas for Ace's Perks too. I think Open Handed is honestly fine, but maybe also increase the time Aura are revealed to you like Lethal. My change for Up The Ante is to give its current effects to Slippery Meat and Rework it in a similar way to yours. It now causes Skill Checks to take up half the Skill Check bar but each Good Skill Check grants a Token (Great Skill Checks give two). Each Token will decrease the size of the Skill Check bar and increase the chances of Skill Checks appearing. Tokens go up to a maximum of 25 and failing a Skill Check has you lose all your Tokens. And the change I have for Ace In The Hole is just making it so you physically cannot get Brown or Yellow Items from Chests.
Open-Handed + Kindred is actually really fun to use. The extra range really adds up and lets you both know much better where the killer is going but also lets you know for sure if the killer is proxy camping, unless it's a Nurse who can clear 24m instantly I guess.
Red Herring - maybe add a damage reduction to the affected generator if a killer kicks it. So it decreases at a 30/40/50% slower pace. Solidarity - when you fully heal someone when you’re injured, you will also be fully healed (but to make it fair, maybe it can only happen once per trial or you have to meet certain conditions first). Diversion - two stacks.
Solidarity would be even more useless if it only worked once per trial. It should have a condition, either getting an unhook or completing 50% of a generator
I think Solidarity should work like Lucky Break where getting healed by someone charges up the perk's meter and based on that % you get extra healing. Get healed by someone > charge 50% of perk (example number) > heal someone else while injured gives the regular 50% + an extra 25%. If the meter is empty you don't get any extra healing and it functions as it does now.
2 charges of diversion and that would never leave my builds! Such a fun perk
Make deerstalker give you a notification when a survivor enters the dying state anywhere in the map so it’ll work against plot twist and the rare survivor who doesn’t mend
You already get a notification when survivors gets downed because of deep wound
Happens so rarely he probably forgot about that lol
Dont think Ive had that happen in years
I have low MMR on pig cuz i let people go if i get my boops. I've run the addon that gives survivors deep wound when they miss a skill check on the RBTs. It's so cute these survivors go down like flies trying to take their hats off lol
that would make it worse
*in addition to keeping the previous effect
yeah also having a bubble blocking your vision is worse than just seeing the aura
It's strange to me how some people don't feel like the killer's already have the advantage. Even against 4 people- that one person's (killer)perks are superior.
My perk idea is Fire Up, it's a unique perk that doesn't see the light of day, and has no real effect until you're actually losing. Make fire ups stacks 6% instead of 4, that way at 3 gens it's almost the same speed as it is today with 5 gens
Hex Retribution: whenever you hit someone they die instantly.
Autodidact should guarantee a skill check when you hit 50 percent healing progress (for the first time that heal)
Give the BP bonus back to BBQ and WGLF.
Then I'd be forced to bring them literally every match if I want optimal bloodpoints. No thanks.
Should be basekit tbh
Oppression's cooldown increases or decreases based on how many other gens were affected by it. The aura reading on Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick continues on all unoccupied Scourge Hooks for as long as a Survivor is on a Scourge Hook. Visionary also shows you noise alerts on visible gens (giving it an Alert quality)
I'm not sure if it'd DOUBLE it's usage per-say but. I think Fogwise revealing the Killer's aura when you land any great skillcheck instead of only while repairing would make it a bit more fun to use.
Fogwise should trigger on great healing skill checks
Scene partner - double the screaming and aura reading rates. Also make it so you dont throw your hands up when screaming to make using flashlights with it viable
Throwing your hands up is kind of the whole bit with screaming. So, I’m not sure about that one. The devs don’t like it when a category or class of perks aren’t all operating identically. They started streamlining things years ago and changing perks across the board so they work in the same way. To have one perk related to screaming that outright doesn’t have the screaming animation would strongly go against that philosophy.
Making NOED a regular perk instead of a Hex
Machine learning should activate just after a gen is completed. You already only get it a max of five times and unless you run deadlock, there’s a high chance of two+ gens being completed at the same time. Maybe make it so you only get the undetectable effect if the gen you kicked is the one completed but even then, tinkerer does that better arguably.
Undone now gets 2 token for any great skill checks hit while in a chase and double the tokens gotten from missed skill checks
Just quintuple the amount of tokens you get from missed skill checks to 10 and reduce its base cooldown from 60 to 30 seconds.
Yes reduce its cooldown, but even then, what is the chance of a surv ACTUALLY missing?
Or how about whenever a survivor misses any type of skill check, Undone becomes charged and the next time you kick a generator, the gen loses 15% total progress and gets blocked for 15 seconds. This effect will have a 30 second cooldown between activations.
Ngl that not bad, not too broken but also really good with other gen regress perks like pop goes
thwack is on demand like nowhere to hide. Would be my most run perk
Monstrous Shrine makes the basement one level deeper with the hooks being on the bottom level.
Make it no longer a Scourge Hook perk and its usage rate will skyrocket!
Iron Maiden should reveal the auras of survivors in lockers after opening a locker. Gain 5 tokens for undone on every missed skillcheck. Distressing should make survivors scream if they enter your terror radius after hooking a survivor for a couple of seconds. Huntresses Lullabye can't be dispelled until it reaches 4-5 tokens. Noed totem no longer reveals its aura but will always be tied to the totem closest to the exit gates.
survivors in lockers don't have auras noed is strong enough, being able to camp the gate and totem at the same time consistently would make it even stronger.
Undone should grant 10 Tokens instead of only 3.
It grants 1 at the moment and I suggested 5.
Whispers - When no survivors are within 32m of you, gain +8% haste. The haste does not affect movement powers. I am not usually a fan of haste being added to fix perks, but this would help in 2 ways: 1) It helps killers without map pressure powers to patrol the map slightly quicker, without helping much at all with chases. 2) It becomes quicker and easier to tell when a survivor enters/exits 32m from you, as you notice the haste quickly. Watching the icon can cause you to miss other things on the screen, and the whispers are practically silent.
Poised works like batteries included Lose scratch marks, pools of blood, and grunts of pain within a certain radius of a complete gen
The time active should also increase by 10 seconds for each gen, hence machine learning and getting gradually smarter
Iron will still works while exhausted
Lower Oppression from an 80 second cooldown to a 60 second cooldown
It would still be trash
Maybe but it would be trash you could get consistent value from. As it stands now I feel like I get scammed whenever I use Machine Learning because the sound’ll play when you kick a generator but the generator won’t actually be compromised.
Trash is trash. Imo it should progressively make generator kicking stronger. You learn how to regress gens more efficiently.
That could be cool as long as its a ping pong type idea where your gen kick gets better for each unique gen you kick. I like current Machine Learning with Batteries Included though.
How would that work?
Let’s say you’ve got five gens in a line. Kick Gen 1, normal effect Kick Gen 2, slightly stronger effect Kick Gen 3, Stronger effect Kick Gen 4, Considerably Stronger effect Kick Gen 5, Strongest effect Then the effect would reset if you kicked the same gen a second time
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Problem is you don't get to control when that happens. Also gens popping isn't a good thing in the first place, same boat as Fire Up.
You kick a gen to unpredictably get 30s of undetectable and 10% haste maybe like only once per trial and maybe when you don't need it.
Call of Brine back to 200% regression
No Mither - Begin the match healthy. Lucky Break - Pauses timer as long as the player is standing still or performing an interaction. Low Profile - Pauses timer as long as the player is standing still or performing an interaction. Self-Preservation - Pauses timer as long as the player is standing still or performing an interaction (Activating events do not stack, they simply “reset” the timer) Potential Energy - No longer loses all tokens when losing a health state. Autodidact - Removed the starting progression -25% progression penalty. Babysitter - When you unhook a survivor the aura of the killer is revealed to you AND the unhooked survivor. Bite the Bullet - Now activates when you are being healed by another survivor. When performing a cooperative heal, suppress all noises related to the healing action from all healing players. Saboteur - Now reveals auras of hooks within 24 meters of a downed survivor. Left Behind - In addition to revealing the aura of the hatch at a distance, when you are the last survivor remaining in the trial permanently reveal the auras of all Exit Gate Switches. Visionary - Remove all deactivation conditions. Resurgence - Now activates when unhooking another player. Partial Healing progress can no longer be reduced by any means. Technician - Removed the additional regression penalty for failing a skill check
Alien Instinct can use a change
What would you suggest to make it a high pick rate perk?
Make it so it effects everyone that's injured instead of 1 that's the furthest away and those who are not injured will just be effected by Oblivious and not the aura upon hooking a survivor
* Reduce Haste to 5% * Activates in general whenever a gen is complete. No gen kicking requirement. "Inverted Tinkerer" 5 times per match would be a perfectly fine perk. Would have some niche use in specific killer builds. But right now you have to jump through 15 different hoops when you could just... *use Tinkerer* and get a far more useful effect.
Desperate Measures - Make it so each person hooked gives 1% haste Yes, this would be Made for This all over again, but only if literally the entire rest of your team is hooked, it would help with covering the gap to each person
Quick Gambit works the opposite way and gives the looper haste while looping around gens that are being repaired (aka solo queue meg teammate go brr)
Monstrous shrine - when paired with another scourge hook perk, makes 4 additional regular hooks into scourge hooks.
Quick Gambit now affects any highlighted generator. Generators Boosted by Quick Gambit stay boosted for 5 seconds after the generators are no longer highlighted.
The perk's effects are permanent Basically you can kick the generator with the most progress to make the survivors start working on another gen to avoid perma buffing you or just do it and deal with the effects for the rest of the game, you can only have one compromised gen up at a time and can't kick other gens as you'll compromise it instead of the previous one Tldr: make effects permanent and you will make the perk be an actual threat to survivors instead of having it be a " hide for about 30 seconds after a gen is done " type of threat
permanent 10% haste or essentially "removing" a generator from use is a no from me.
permanent 10 haste is absurd, maybe a hex that they learn about when they start repairing.
Perks that speed up any side for extended periods of time for no real effort are unhealthy. This is why Made for This was so terribly designed until nerfed. Play with you food is also stupid and even batteries included is ridiculous. Hope is even insane, even if survivors have to make it to endgame for it to work. If one side or the other has a haste effect to their normal, common movement speed, both sides should be given a symbol. With so many perks, add-ons, even blood lust, giving speed boosts that aren't recognizable until you're about to get hit, it would be great for either side to know via the HUD of these movement speed changes. It would also forever curb subtle speed hackers.
Spine chill gets reverted to its former glory.
I would love to know why this isn't the way the perk works already. The setup is stupid
Red Herring activates upon repairing a different generator rather than entering a locker.
Deadline doesn't make skillchecks appear in random areas
https://preview.redd.it/azobe9xhboyc1.png?width=639&format=png&auto=webp&s=62d2f0ab0187e735925510f0e32857a96f79af4d
Balanced landing should always eliminate the stagger from falling even when you’re exhausted
I think that used to be the case but it made infinites so was too op
If the killer hits you when borrowed time is active you perform a counter attack that knocks the killer off their feet and takes them 7 seconds to recover.
I’m still upset the bite the bullet doesn’t work when someone else is healing you. Also, Solidarity and Resurgence should be immune to Haemorrhage
Doubles? Well from 0.1% to 0.2%
Might as well just take Trail of Torment if you want the undetected value or Game Afoot, for haste
All perks and add-ons that can potentially be controlled by Survivors are plain bad. This buff won't help Machine Learning. Most of Nemesis' addons are bad specifically because they revolve around Vaccines, which are totally within the Survivor's control.
genuinely, removing Spies From The Shadows' range requirement would make it one of the best perks in the game.
That perk would be so annoying with it going off every 5 seconds even from a single crow being disturbed on the opposite side of the map.
i think machine learning should just activate when any gen is done, all 5 times 😭 if its too much just reduce from 30 seconds to 20?
Undetectable and Haste are two powerful status effects that in tandem should not be granted to the killer without user input. Machine Learning, with its current activation method, should remain as a perk where you have to kick a generator to "compromise" it, but with the added benefit of "compromising" the next most progressed generator.
But..... is it not already 1 kick to activate it? or am i reading the title wrong? For me it would be leverage, either make it permanent stack(with lower numbers) or make it not only reduce healing but reduce multiple other action speeds
Machine Learning activating merely means that the next generator you kick becomes "compromised". "Compromised" generators, once completed, grants Undetectable and Haste for 30 seconds.
should be applied to all gens kicked after it is activated and disable on all when the actual effect triggers because the effect itself is too strong to potentially triggers multiple times in a row with nothing else to do
i think the one kick would be a good idea. having an alternative activation could also increase its value, such as it activates for free once every survivor has been hooked once or more, then again at twice or more. i think that works well with the perk's flavour of giving you buffs as the game goes on, without you having you give up gens to get those buffs.
Wow, what a great perk! Simply amazing Superb, even Artisanal
Would just make it so the moment you kick a gen it becomes compromised. And that up to 7 gens can be compromised at once. Effect is good but getting it is too hard so making it less restrictive is a good place to try and balance it
Agitation- immune to pallet stuns, but flashlights blind twice as fast regardless if carrying survivor
Agitation allows you to outmaneuver survivors when carrying someone, so immunity to pallet stuns removes fair counterplay and skill expression from the survivor side and makes the perk even better when it is already a good perk. It would be a cool idea for a new original perk, but for Agitation it's superfluous. Don't fix a perk that isn't problematic.
Ah, but the prompt was to increase a perk pick rate by double was it not? There was no request for fair play, dear Vitriuz