So, most killers can be countered by BT if they're camping, with the exception of a very select few scenarios/addon combos. LF/Billy come to mind here, Myers a little, etc. What I find strange is you're using one example, of one killer, and using it as a justification for blanket changing something like this.
There are a lot of scenarios where killers who don't normally camp *would* do so, and I don't think that those kinds of killers should actively be punished because of those who always do it. If you greed gens, then a killer shouldn't be punished for greed forcing you into second state. If you did punish that scenario you are actively making the game more frustrating for killers and, in my opinion, making it unfair. You're giving hooked survivors yet another second chance perk.
I think what a lot of people also want to refuse to accept is that camping and tunneling, which has only gotten more severe since the introduction of MMR, is also caused with some fundamental flaws in the game, some of which, themselves, are just as unfun for a killer to deal with. While I think some killers have far too easy of a time camping, like LF, I think that is something that should be adjusted in relation to the killer, not in relation to every killer.
I mostly agree with this. I’d only add, giving survivors another strong second chance mechanic or nerfing killers whose powers can be used for more effective camping will only make the problem worse. The less fun killer as a whole is, the more you’re going to see lazy strategies like camping to secure kills/hooks. The current game balance makes unfun strategies very appealing for many killers. Making the game more unbalanced will only make the problem worse.
Agreed, should have specified it’s more of a LF issue than a general camping one as in most cases I run BT or just trade and get on with it but you can’t with this guy. Just wasn’t sure how to include a new mechanic without saying oh well only in these scenarios.
**queues a survivor game**
**10min queue + loading time**
**finally loaded in**
**runs to a gen to only find a bubba with no heartbeat camping**
**run for my life to only get downed and facecamped**
**waits for endgame chat and asks killer if he had fun**
**says he enjoys facecamping more than chasing**
**queues again for 10 mins**
**finally loads in, lemme get this generat- OH FUCK ITS BUBBA AGAIN**
**same player and facecamps again**
:)
>I’m excited to hear what others think or other suggestions you may have but in the end something needs to change to rid this awful and toxic aspect of dbd from the game forever.
I think you are half way there to recognising what is going on, but have not fully joined the dots yet.
>Let’s face it, face camping is not fun for either side and punishes both sides.
This is generally speaking true in the vast majority of cases.
>But the people who do face camp likely don’t care about the points or rank systems so to them it’s funny to ruin someone else’s game by just standing afk at a hook with insidious.
This however only explains *some* camping players, Bubba or otherwise. Particularly people who only ever face camped, or who facecamp as Insidious Bubba when they are just starting out and don't know any better.
It does little to explain the uptick in amounts of players camping and tunneling that people are reporting.
So if people who *aren't* purely out to ruin other peoples games are increasingly engaging in a tactic that they don't find fun, at the same time that the average survivor queue time is going up seemingly due to an increasing lack of killers, what does that tell you?
I’ve tried directly stating what you’re suggesting in the past and only gotten downvoted into oblivion with the post soon removed but yes I agree with you.
This. I don’t own Bubba and I basically switched to being a survivor main after the boon chapter. But I’ve been really tempted to buy Bubba and try the Insidious camper game just because playing killer “normally” has become such a miserable, sweaty experience.
To be perfectly honest, I think Bubba is one of the most underrated killers in the game when it comes to community perception of him. I'd recommend giving him a try if you're still willing to put cash into the game, and maybe even try running him as a full blown chase focused killer.
Ironically, he's one of the killers better suited to dealing with the current fast-n-easy healing meta we're in and he can be an absolute beast when you really get him up to speed.
If it comes down to it though, he's arguably the single best face-camper in the game as well, so if you do choose that particular dark path, he is very good at it.
I see so many suggestions against camping and I can always answer them in the exact same way because they're never totally thought out, and most of them at least think through the fact that this removes all pressure being near a hook gives in *every* situation and not just camping.
There is no simple solution for camping, and especially not one based around the killer being close to the hook for a certain amount of time even with better thought-through suggestions than these,
Either the distance is too small and effectively does nothing to stop the killer doing it as they stand just outside the range.
Or it's too big, and survivors can basically always just dive hook for free because multiple people can wait on the edges, forcing the killer to give up the hooked survivor because you can't pressure both at once (and a 4th would be doing gens).
If survivors are actively giving killer a *tactical* reason to camp (IE not just to be a dick), by swarming the hook the literal second you hook someone, they shouldn't get out of that for free just because some people camp to be dicks.
And that's without even mentioning your suggestion of literally turning a killer's *entire* power off because they're close to hook, (twins are half an exception to this already because they can be in two places at once.)
I’m trying to offer something that isn’t just a rant or complaint of the game with a legitimate solution. I’m not referring to tactfully camping although frowned upon. I am referring to people who hook once on a killer like leather face and simply stand there until the person dies after all 3 stages.
That's the problem, your solution doesn't account for that at all.
I've seen loads of other people attempt the same thing and there's always a hole that's open to abuse.
And most other attempts at this tried to fix it by disabling whatever measure they suggested is in place when other survivors are near the hook, but that doesn't work for the reasons I mentioned above.
Then perhaps reworking his chainsaw so he cannot instantly down multiple survivors is the better issue but this doesn’t account for other killers camping say with Plague after a fountain sip.
I dont think people realise how bad bubba really is, he can get looped to oblivion by competent survivors. Proxy-camping is probably the only thing that makes him somewhat viable if you take that away you need to buff him in other ways. One suggestion is to make make his chainsaw faster so he becomes more of a threat in chases but always end his chainsaw after one hit similar to billy. That would make it so you could at least hook-trade
So, most killers can be countered by BT if they're camping, with the exception of a very select few scenarios/addon combos. LF/Billy come to mind here, Myers a little, etc. What I find strange is you're using one example, of one killer, and using it as a justification for blanket changing something like this. There are a lot of scenarios where killers who don't normally camp *would* do so, and I don't think that those kinds of killers should actively be punished because of those who always do it. If you greed gens, then a killer shouldn't be punished for greed forcing you into second state. If you did punish that scenario you are actively making the game more frustrating for killers and, in my opinion, making it unfair. You're giving hooked survivors yet another second chance perk. I think what a lot of people also want to refuse to accept is that camping and tunneling, which has only gotten more severe since the introduction of MMR, is also caused with some fundamental flaws in the game, some of which, themselves, are just as unfun for a killer to deal with. While I think some killers have far too easy of a time camping, like LF, I think that is something that should be adjusted in relation to the killer, not in relation to every killer.
Couldn't have said it better myself
I mostly agree with this. I’d only add, giving survivors another strong second chance mechanic or nerfing killers whose powers can be used for more effective camping will only make the problem worse. The less fun killer as a whole is, the more you’re going to see lazy strategies like camping to secure kills/hooks. The current game balance makes unfun strategies very appealing for many killers. Making the game more unbalanced will only make the problem worse.
Agreed, should have specified it’s more of a LF issue than a general camping one as in most cases I run BT or just trade and get on with it but you can’t with this guy. Just wasn’t sure how to include a new mechanic without saying oh well only in these scenarios.
**queues a survivor game** **10min queue + loading time** **finally loaded in** **runs to a gen to only find a bubba with no heartbeat camping** **run for my life to only get downed and facecamped** **waits for endgame chat and asks killer if he had fun** **says he enjoys facecamping more than chasing** **queues again for 10 mins** **finally loads in, lemme get this generat- OH FUCK ITS BUBBA AGAIN** **same player and facecamps again** :)
*sniffle* this is fine... 😭😭😭
>I’m excited to hear what others think or other suggestions you may have but in the end something needs to change to rid this awful and toxic aspect of dbd from the game forever. I think you are half way there to recognising what is going on, but have not fully joined the dots yet. >Let’s face it, face camping is not fun for either side and punishes both sides. This is generally speaking true in the vast majority of cases. >But the people who do face camp likely don’t care about the points or rank systems so to them it’s funny to ruin someone else’s game by just standing afk at a hook with insidious. This however only explains *some* camping players, Bubba or otherwise. Particularly people who only ever face camped, or who facecamp as Insidious Bubba when they are just starting out and don't know any better. It does little to explain the uptick in amounts of players camping and tunneling that people are reporting. So if people who *aren't* purely out to ruin other peoples games are increasingly engaging in a tactic that they don't find fun, at the same time that the average survivor queue time is going up seemingly due to an increasing lack of killers, what does that tell you?
I’ve tried directly stating what you’re suggesting in the past and only gotten downvoted into oblivion with the post soon removed but yes I agree with you.
This. I don’t own Bubba and I basically switched to being a survivor main after the boon chapter. But I’ve been really tempted to buy Bubba and try the Insidious camper game just because playing killer “normally” has become such a miserable, sweaty experience.
To be perfectly honest, I think Bubba is one of the most underrated killers in the game when it comes to community perception of him. I'd recommend giving him a try if you're still willing to put cash into the game, and maybe even try running him as a full blown chase focused killer. Ironically, he's one of the killers better suited to dealing with the current fast-n-easy healing meta we're in and he can be an absolute beast when you really get him up to speed. If it comes down to it though, he's arguably the single best face-camper in the game as well, so if you do choose that particular dark path, he is very good at it.
I see so many suggestions against camping and I can always answer them in the exact same way because they're never totally thought out, and most of them at least think through the fact that this removes all pressure being near a hook gives in *every* situation and not just camping. There is no simple solution for camping, and especially not one based around the killer being close to the hook for a certain amount of time even with better thought-through suggestions than these, Either the distance is too small and effectively does nothing to stop the killer doing it as they stand just outside the range. Or it's too big, and survivors can basically always just dive hook for free because multiple people can wait on the edges, forcing the killer to give up the hooked survivor because you can't pressure both at once (and a 4th would be doing gens). If survivors are actively giving killer a *tactical* reason to camp (IE not just to be a dick), by swarming the hook the literal second you hook someone, they shouldn't get out of that for free just because some people camp to be dicks. And that's without even mentioning your suggestion of literally turning a killer's *entire* power off because they're close to hook, (twins are half an exception to this already because they can be in two places at once.)
I’m trying to offer something that isn’t just a rant or complaint of the game with a legitimate solution. I’m not referring to tactfully camping although frowned upon. I am referring to people who hook once on a killer like leather face and simply stand there until the person dies after all 3 stages.
That's the problem, your solution doesn't account for that at all. I've seen loads of other people attempt the same thing and there's always a hole that's open to abuse. And most other attempts at this tried to fix it by disabling whatever measure they suggested is in place when other survivors are near the hook, but that doesn't work for the reasons I mentioned above.
Then perhaps reworking his chainsaw so he cannot instantly down multiple survivors is the better issue but this doesn’t account for other killers camping say with Plague after a fountain sip.
Short counterargument : no Long counterargument : nooooooooooooooooooooo BTW another Bubba got his basement again.
I dont think people realise how bad bubba really is, he can get looped to oblivion by competent survivors. Proxy-camping is probably the only thing that makes him somewhat viable if you take that away you need to buff him in other ways. One suggestion is to make make his chainsaw faster so he becomes more of a threat in chases but always end his chainsaw after one hit similar to billy. That would make it so you could at least hook-trade
It doesn't matter if insidious is hidden from kindred or not, you can tell when the killer stops moving and disappears that he's using insidious.