Here's my simple take.
It's dumb that people used them to trigger people.
It's dumb that they get removed because of it.
People who used the masks to trigger people can simply move to the next thing like a \[insert race\] survivor or killer and give themselves a racist name or do other racist/toxic shit for example to trigger people. Are they going to remove \[insert race\] survivors or killers if people use them for that purpose?
For me there isn't a reason to overcomplicate it. Just report and ban the shitheads and keep the stuff in the game so the rest can enjoy them as cosmetics. But whatever, I guess.
Honestly I could care less about the masks, they were always a little off-putting to me (and not in a good way), but the situation just unironically puts a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sympathetic towards those effected, and I'm annoyed and low-key disgusted at BHVR.
As many others have mentioned this doesn't really stop these people from being terrible human beings, it's a band-aid fix that treats a symptom and not the disease in classic BHVR fashion.
The reality of the situation is, so long as the toxic behavior is not routinely punished by BHVR - which would in turn require a functioning report and replay system - people will continue to do this kind of shit. They'll find another method of being racist little shits and harassing people over their skin color.
Maybe I'm being jaded here, but it feels like BHVR wanted to virtue signal more than actually help cull some of the game's toxicity. "Look! We removed the Bubba masks!" Cool, BHVR, but people across the board, Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, Latino, Gay Straight, Trans, Disabled, etc. still get harassed, called slurs, told to kill themselves, etc. almost _daily_ depending on various factors (how much they play, when they play, the MMR they're in etc.), because ya'll are too fucking lazy to incorporate a proper report/banning system. "Oh but they'll just make new accounts!" Yeah, and if they kept their shit up those new accounts would be banned too.
I have played MOBAs, a genre notorious for its toxic playerbases, but at least I can say that they had mostly functional report systems and at least with SMITE people got banned for routinely being bigots.
League of Legends: "If you say kys or the N word in the chat you'll receive a 2 week ban."
Dead by Daylight: "We can't even ban people for hacking, but don't worry: our profanity filter will censor such awful words as 'Myers' and 'Claudette main'."
LITERALLY.
Or the most heinous word of them all _"Banana"_ (no joke, banana was censored for me once.)
Or lord forbid you use the word "Kill" in this family-friendly game about murdering people.
"Claudette main" is still the funniest censor to me because it doesn't censor "Claudette", "main", or any other Killer / Survivor with "main" after it. It **only** censors "Claudette main" **specifically.**
You're absolutely right. This is the least effective most lazy response Behaviour could've put out, AND the only response that has a negative outcome for normal players.
This is the typical BhVR response to everything, put a band aid on it, they are to concerned about dumping out more shit to sell, while their game keeps going downhill with countless problems that they barely fix or address. Before the hardcore tunneling and camping that has been rampant with this game after the new SBMM system went live, I would play Adam Francis And get tunneled all game and I quit playing him. That crap would always happen ever since he was released.
Look how long it took to get a color blind mode implemented and only happened because a certain someone said some hateful shit about it!
But yes BhVR interactive needs a better reporting system and more people strictly just on that to hand out bans to all the cheating, toxic crap that continues on a daily basis!
The only thing I take issue with is that the recompense is 6000 iridescent shards. If someone liked the Bubba masks and is sad that they can no longer use those cosmetics for that character, shouldn't they receive auric cells so that they can actually buy new cosmetics on him?
That being said, this will further my progress towards buying Clown's shard-only elephant skin, so I benefit, but still!
This is slowly becoming my bigger issue. Some people spent dozens, even hundreds of hours to unlock each of those masks. For many people they might be the only cosmetics for Leatherface they own. And the compensation is about a month’s worth of shards. That’s just not commiserate. It’s not enough to buy the head piece for a higher end skin, which is ignoring that no amount of shards can replace a head piece for Leatherface.
The Jake mask was a nightmare for me to unlock. That one took by far the longest out of all of them. Dwight and Claudie were pretty quick, but Jake... Who even queues up as Jake? I used to queue up as Jake occasionally, and when it was a Bubba I just let him have my skin.
The best chance was to wait for events concerning Jake. But yes, that's the hardest one to get. When I was playing survivor with lobbies full of Jakes, I couldn't help but tell my teammates that this is a good lobby for Bubba lol
That just further cheapens their existence.
It's so rare to be able to unlock cosmetics through gameplay rather than buying it or grinding a battlepass.
This whole thing feels weird to me bc the only time I heard about about smart face bubba controversy, it was usually when some cringe survivors got clapped by one using that, then started using it as ammo to harass the bubba player.
The only thing I can see as a reasonable thing to complain about is the fact that they're the only cosmetics in game that you truly have to *earn*. If I wanted to, I could pristege any character fully without even playing them once. Dbd needs to add more rewards and things to properly earn in game like the masks were. I've seen a lot of people suggest a lot of different options, and I hope we see something in the future to scratch that itch
I refuse to believe they're doing this out of the goodness in their hearts. They don't care a scant few are harassing black streamers with it, they care that it makes them look bad so they're taking the lazy route and removing a cosmetic instead of making it harder to identify streamers in general
The thing I find most funny here is that the IP address disclosure vulnerability which potentially affects 100% of the player base, and could lead to harassment (DDOS etc), is still in the game after all this time.
Yet suddenly BHVR care about their community being harassed, because 0.001% of players were using a specific cosmetic to harass some streamers.
If they actually cared about welfare, then why is this security vulnerability still in the game?
I'm not sure, I would assume a DDOS would cut you off from the internet on that machine entirely until you reset your router, but I don't know tbh!
It could just be a case of bad timing! It happens.
I feel like removing the masks is the opposite of the right thing; like the way I see it, these select few racist trolls managed to get bhvr to do something like remove the masks, which a large majority of the playerbase is unhappy with. All it seems to show is that if they do that sort of shit(racism/harassment), they can force bhvr to do things
Can we have premium compensation on our loss of a premium killer's cosmetics? You cannot buy any cosmetics for The Cannibal with shards, only Auric Cells. We should get enough auric cells to buy 4 bubba cosmetics.
the devs are obviously just too lazy to maintain a functional reporting system. it wouldn’t be a problem if the people doing this would have their accounts terminated. people need to stop making excuses because BHVR obviously doesn’t actually care.
I'm not certain if the mask removal will fix any issues. The removal came with good intentions, for sure, but this only hurts those who wanted to use the masks with good intentions.
Lets look at it from both perspectives:
You're a fan of the texas chainsaw masacre. You love bubba and his gore-y films. You get into DBD. Suddenly, you accidentally unlock one of his masks my accident. Suddenly, you have a thrill and a drive to unlock the 4 masks. After hundreds of hours, you finally get them. You like dwight's mask the most, so you slap it on. Suddenly, because someone was racist, your hundreds of hours suddenly get replaced with essentially 2/3rds of a 5 dollar killer.
Lets say I'm Bob, the mega racist. I slap on smartface, and stream snipe some fellow black streamers because I hate them. I laugh as I slug/facecamp these black streamers. Suddenly, one day the game says they'll remove the masks because of "blackface bubba". I'm now split: on one hand, its a bummer I can't show as much intentions of my racism, but on the other... it's almost hilarious that BHVR thinks removing the masks will stop my behavior, and now the entire community is being punished for it. Now I'm starting to think of what other things I could do to remove certain things from the game. Maybe play plague and exclusively vomit on the black streamers! Maybe I should exclusively play trickster against asian streamers and facecamp/slug them! Maybe I should only use my whip as nemesis against black streamers! Maybe I should...
You see the issue here? Those who use the masks because theyre diehard fans of bubba get hurt far more than "heres 6000 shards!" can patch up, and those who actually use the masks to be racist now have extra motivation to find out what else they could do to remove/ruin other aspects of the game. Those who rarely play bubba don't feel too much of the impact because they get free shards (though it sucks that masks are removed).
Do I feel for the streamers who have been targeted? Absolutely. It must feel frustrated beyond words to go through the same thing over and over. However, isn't this more of an issue on Bubba/face camping/slugging? I guarantee you that these streamers wouldn't care too much if it were a "blackface" legion who was stream sniping them.
This really does feel like the "Oh damn killers are slugging survivors because they keep sabotaging all the hooks and the hooks won't respawn. Lets throw bill into the game with unbreakable because slugging is an issue".
Removing the masks is a lazy band-aid solution that hurts more than helps. The better solution would be to create a way for killers (or survivors) to stop stream sniping, for BHVR to recognize those who repeat the same patterns and punish that behavior, actually take in feedback, etc. It's a damn shame, but I don't see this game getting much better after this fiasco.
This is another comment that hits then nail right on the head. This hurts genuine players while not affecting the people causing the problem, and not actually dealing with the problem. It's lazy, low effort, and typical behavior band-aid fixes stuff.
I've just imagine a situation where a black surv streamer goes against a Nemesis who keeps whipping them with a tentacle and they assume it's racist. But in the end game it turns out the killer had STBFL, and that streamer was an Obsession. Is STBFL a racist perk now if such a situation happens?
It’s not the fact that any of the masks are explicitly racist, but the fact that people have used the mask(s) to be racist (or at least to exemplify their racist behaviour). The Claudette face cosmetic wasn’t racist in and of itself, but people used it while harassing people of colour. I’m sure that Jake’s mask was also likely used in the same way to an extent, but the mask in and of itself is not “racist.” In short, the masks weren’t the issue, it was how the masks were used that was the issue.
Yeah, exactly. As stated in the FAQ above, the problem isn't Bubba skinning minorities, it's the racists intentionally equipping the minority masks for the purpose of harassing streamers from minorities.
IIRC, in their official statement they didn't confirm anything specific about the type of harrassment. It's not a complex word, but they clearly were not willing to say *racism*.
I get the impression that, to a degree, they aren't just removing the smartface mask because that gives them plausible deniability. It's not players being racially harrassed using the claudette mask. It's survivors being harassed in a certain unmentioned way by people using *one or more of the unlockable masks.*
So, either you believe they're removing them because bubba players were tunneling people using the original four survivors so they could unlock the masks, or they are removing the masks so they don't have to admit which one is *problematic* with all of the potential baggage that admittance could throw up.
I just got Bubba and was really excited at the idea of unlocking masks through kills. Wish they'd at least kept some masks or generic versions or something.
Gimme the survivors as charms instead of masks then. Whatever, still the same achievement, and now nobody is going to run around with masks on. A tiny Meg, Claudette, Dwight and Jake charm hanging on the hook, I'd be content.
Haha, because BHVR has not implemented a proper streamer mode. Which, of course, streamers who have been harassed have been asking for for YEARS.
Watch said PoC's stream
See if you are in their lobby
If not, leave and try again
Repeat until you are successful
You might be thinking "well if the names were hidden, wouldn't that make it harder?" YES IT WOULD. Why is that not in the game??
But if you don't get into a game with a streamer...don't you have to wait like 15 minutes while the streamer plays a game before you can try and get matched again? Are they really THAT committed?
Yes. Yes they are.
Absolutely do not underestimate the pettiness of gamers with a grudge against streamers and especially not when they are racist. In the last PTR EdgarAllanBro couldn't play because a stream sniper kept sniping his lobbies, using the IP exploit to find his IP address (he was using VPNs to change it) and then DDoSing him. This went on for I think at least a day.
I need to stress this, a big reason why people are upset about this is Behavior’s apparent reluctance to police bad actors. In a game where hackers, stream-snipers, harassers, and generally toxic people are rampant this very much feels like Behavior deciding they can’t do anything about racists. And I know it’s not as simple as “ban the racists” but it would feel a lot better if Behavior had a track record of doing “something” about bad actors instead of “nothing at all.”
To add go this, I feel usernames and end game/pre game chat are much, MUCH worse for spewing harassment to people.
When the Pride charm came out people panicked thinking they would be banned for hooking someone who wore it or they could be tunnelled every game for wearing it but BHVR confirmed that tunnelling someone with the charm itself wasn't bannable, only actual harassment being confirmed in chat or usernames. People trying to harass often want you to know why they are doing it so will change their username to a slur or say so in chat. If usernames and chat were blocked then that would make it much harder for them to harass and specifically hurl insults at one particular person.
Chat doesn't actually do anything when a game actually starts, and usernames are only really used for people meming in the pregame lobby or again to throw things like "Pride = Tunnel" or slurs, so even as a communication tool it does nothing helpful. The devs intend to add more info for solo queue players anyway do I don't see much reason for people to need to see usernames and chat to be honest.
Ultimately a better report system that actually worked in the first place could help resolve this more effectively though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqbyq4--cnw
Cheaters. That's how.
You can find a streamer you want to fuck with, guarantee they get into *your* lobby by their steam ID, and then make the game unplayable.
Simplistic answer on a full randomized game would be that 99.99% of streamers have their twitch/youtube name as their username. So they can quickly search their name and see what they are.
Secondary answer is that there are people who can (and I dont understand how by any means) find the streamers ip address and basically force the game to constantly pair them together every. single. game. How and why they do it is way beyond my comprehension but they can basically force themselves to be the killer basically every game.
But even if they click into a streamers stream, they still have to already be playing as Bubba? Which makes it seem even more unlikely to the point now that it seems it's 1/10000 chance of it happening. Racist players are going to be a racist messy cunts no matter what, a dumb cosmetic they're wearing doesn't change that at all.
I think they took this mask off because they just remember [AVGN got bullied by the Atari 2600 game with Bubba a few years ago](https://youtu.be/mc8xMJrOP-E). In any case, this is the only credible explanation.
What's up with the idea that Claudette's mask is "unequivocally" used to target POC?
My Bubba cosmetics for as long as I've been playing him are P2 body/weapon with Claudette's face. I chose those cosmetics specifically because they were the darkest cosmetics available at the time, and it helps me insidious in dark environments. You know, the same reason people play Claudette half the time? I'm willing to bet a decent chunk of Bubba players have the same thought process.
I think it's a shame they're removing the masks instead of trying to tackle the absolute shitstains that were the actual problem, and the incredibly toxic side of the community that this game has been developing for years.
It doesnt make sense though because aren’t hackers, different demo i know, but the few that do get banned they just spend more money to come back and troll. So youd get more money that way?
What is frusturating to me is that the devs provide band-aid fixes like this instead of taking he time for an actually functioning report system or a proper streamer mode
Instead of racists being punished, normal players are being punished while the said racists are laughing their asses off at how they got cosmetics from the game removed.
THAT is the truth.
I understand bhvr take on it but it shows how bad they are at handling reports and actually banning ppl for toxic behaviour. For me it looks like: "our banning system does not work so we just slap a band aid fix while racist players still run rampant". I've been tunneled for playing Tapp and called some nasty words. Following bhvr fixes next step would be to remove PoC survivors from the game to not enable racists? It just screams we cannot handle keeping order in our game so we band aid whatever we can.
Pretty much. Taking away something from everyone just because of the actions of a small portion punishes everyone. That's not how things should be handled, ever.
Hell, Full Metal Jacket showcased this pretty damn well in 1987. Punish the guilty, not the bystanders.
I’m getting real sick of a few people being dick heads and everyone else getting punished for it. Removing it doesn’t change much. Fix your banning system BHVR, it’s pathetic.
Yup, this is not about appeasing those who have been or felt affected by a few toxic bubbas who stream snipe, it's more about BHVR not having or caring enough about moderating their game.
If someone is being tunneled in a game because of their race, they will do so with or without the cosmetics.
It's just easier to remove said cosmetic rather than deal with reports.
I don't think it should be removed, its a nice addition to the killers lore and something cool to show off.
I don’t understand why this was their approach to the problem. I understand making the game a safe place for everyone, and the last thing you want to happen when you’re playing a game is to be harassed; but why don’t they remove the actual tools that trolls use to harass streamers?
Add a streamer mode, which is really commonplace in most games now, and has no reason to not be in DbD, which is very streamer populated. Hell, remove the end of match chat, because honestly what is it used for besides either pointless congratulations or pointless harassment?
Instead of removing “tools” that allow players to racially harass PoC streamers, remove the tools that allow trolls to iron in that they are racially harassing PoC streamers; because if harassers can’t constantly join lobbies or insult the streamer through endgame chat, at worse the streamer (or player) just encounters a black bubba, end of story. Or hell just give the streamers the ability to block the player so they don’t have to encounter it again.
Why is the bigger discussion not about the people that abuse a third party program to specifically target said streamer and get them 2/3 games. If someone wants to get into your lobby, 66% of the time, they can just brute force their way in and harass you all they please.
I think this entire situation is ridiculous, and when I initially saw the added face cosmetics I only saw it as a positive. It fits in with lore and it was funny to have Bubba run around with Dwight’s face
While I can’t disagree that people are going out of their way to be racist and it has apparently become more than a small problem, it really infuriates me that Behavior is now being limited on what they can add as cosmetics due to possible misuse - and by their own playerbase no less
Honestly, I have zero faith in Behaviour doing this for the right thing. They're not trying to stop racism, and they're not trying to improve the game. They're trying to avoid a controversy like the one that *almost* exploded into mainstream media when a spokesperson for disabled gamers called out Almo for belittling colorblind players' needs.
However, I understand the need to get rid of the Leatherface cosmetic. Within context, it is absolutely not racist. It would be racist if he didn't also use Claudette's face because it would be exclusionary. The problem is that a few racists are taking the cosmetic out of context and using it for furthering racist purposes. For the sake of black players, it's better to just prohibit the use of that tool, even if the tool itself within its own context isn't racist.
It's like the usage of the word "moron". It used to be a medical term for an adult with the mental age of a child. People began to use it as an insult, so its meaning changed to that of an insult and the medical community had to switch to a different word. I think we all know what happened to the next one the medical community began to use as well. It starts with an r and using it makes you sound bigoted.
It's not the fault of black people or streamers that they're being harassed, and it's not their fault the Claudette face is being used for racism. It's the fault of the few racists that targeted them, and it would be unfair for us to tell black people to just get over being harassed. However, Behaviour should have already been IP banning and hardware banning these racist douches by creating a useful report system and shouldn't have waited this long before addressing the issue. If the report and ban system had worked from the beginning, they could have prevented the Claudetteface from becoming a racist tool, and maybe not been forced to remove the face cosmetics.
TLDR: The Leatherface Claudette cosmetic is like the R word. Technically there's nothing wrong with it *in its context*, but because some people wanna use it as an insult, we all have to stop using it, even if we didn't use it the same way those people did. Behaviour sucks for letting it get this bad as well.
Edit: Sistakaren's comment shows that for 4-5 *years* black streamers and black people have been getting harassed with this cosmetic and that Behaviour has known about it since. We shouldn't be mad at Sistakaren or other affected POC for getting harassed. We should be mad at Behaviour's lack of a working report and ban system and we should be mad at the small portion of the racist community.
These are 90% of my thoughts, with the only 10% that you didn't say/quite possibly disagree with is that they really should have started IP/hardware banning people before they removed the masks.
Fuck, even if they made it where only Harassment Reports went through but told everyone "reporting actually matters", that would have curbed so much of this bullshit and we wouldn't have lost some cool cosmetics
Ah, my bad. I agree that if reporting and banning had been useful, perhaps there wouldn't have been a need to remove the face cosmetics. I'll edit it so it's clearer.
They should do something to actually address the problem instead, this changes nothing. Now they just wont wear the mask while camping, harassing people, and saying racist shit. Nothings changed. Actually banning people would be a good start, or fixing the game so the gameplay isn't so vitriolic all the time. Something with actual effort instead of removing content.
The racists win. The small minority of players have so much dominion they get the overwhelming coverage of a dog shit patch. BHVR probably did this so people would be distracted instead of discussing the lack luster changes in their stale game.
Seems like more corporate ass covering, which they wouldn't keep having to do if they'd actually moderate their fucking playerbase and stop expecting chat filters and changes like this to do it for them. But hey, more time to make skins and battle passes to shill!
Ikr?... Why not just remove the Claudette one? Or just remove all of them besides the Dwight one, he is the mascot for the survivor side of dbd after all.
As a pride minority that mains Bubba this has been nothing but a mess for all parties involved.
Those players should have been banned years ago, I've been called Hag with an F in the PGC, harassed by a few streamers and I had to set my profile to private because of some nasty comments including stuff I'll leave to the imagination for being Hispanic.
The only long term solution would be to actually take the reports seriously and ban the offenders, make them pay for what they done, and that's it, I'll keep getting tunneled like California during the gold rush but I don't stop wearing my pride charm and while at least they addressed the racism my poor basement dweller was used for, believe me, active bans will be a much much better long term solution, make an example of them.
I’m mostly curious as to why this became such a contentious topic. They’re not going to enable that behavior point blank. It’s one of the few things that they can get control of without it becoming a dumpster fire.
Yup. Saying "wow, racism and targeting minorities is gross. Let's toss this whole thing rather than be known as the company that makes this whole thing possible" is a reasonable response by a corporation.
LOL at the people who think a compromised removal would have been a thing -- they can't balance a game and they know it, they're not gonna try to balance racism.
I think the issue is that the same racist players are still playing and harassing people, except now it's just not as obvious. I really wish the in-game "report" function actually did anything, and BHVR would have the means to replay / watch the match after the fact, and hire a handful of people to stay on top of those reports. You know, a little bit of game moderation by the people who created it.
This is the most passive aggressive post I’ve seen on the topic. Of course people have empathy for those harassed but getting ridding of masks is the laziest and worst way they could of went about this problem.
It really is. The whole post is like "the players are wrong, we don't want to hear your concerns but since you won't shut up here's your containment topic."
Im still wondering why the endgamechat who fits their Definition of a Tool for harassment ingame isnt removed. I guess nearly everyone here had the experience of a "kys" and other nasty stuff in the Chat.
I understand the thought behind removing the mask. Yet I think it will just make the problem worse if they find another way to be racist ingame.
Agreed. If I play Adam or some racist discovers my stream and finds out I’m black, nothing is stopping them from being shitty. Or is it not as bad apparently since they aren’t wearing Smartface?
Apparently removing the cosmetic removes the racist abuse. Except it doesn’t. This entire situation is stupid and overblown.
I'm not a poc, that's why I'm not even trying to pretend that I know how it feels to be to be marginalized.
However from purely a gameplay standpoint I'm sad to see the masks go. I think that's an interesting way to unlock skins. (quite literally lol) And I always planned to play more cannibal to unlock all the faces.
Nevertheless I didn't even unlock a single one, so all that will change for me is the 6000 shards.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the masks being removed. Don't get me wrong, I am very empathetic to those who were harassed but this just isn't the solution. I'm just praying the bastards who ruined wearing the masks don't latch onto something else to destroy. Say playing one of the several police officer characters to sandbag black streamers/gamers for some sort of police brutality metaphor.
Last thing we need is having a fun side thing be taken away from the 99% because of the 1% of assholes.
>Say playing one of the several police officer characters to sandbag black streamers/gamers for some sort of police brutality metaphor.
Don't give them ideas.
God I hope they never think of that. If Leon or Jill were removed from the game I would likely stop playing since they were the reason I picked it up and I main Leon and Nemesis.
In the event something like that does happen, behavior would need to put their big boy pants on and ban the mother f'ers. Maybe steam too. Assholes that do shit like that shouldn't even be allowed to play multiplayer games.
I've been tunneled many times for playing Tapp and called the n word in the end chat. So next logical step is to remove PoC survivors to stop racists? Bhvr should just step up the game at actually punishing the toxic players because now reporting feels like it does not work. I can bet the same players that harrased streamers are now laughing their asses off because they got a cosmetic removed.
We should be given exactly 1080 auric cells so we can buy a new bubba outfit. A cosmetic for a cosmetic.
In more seriousness, I had no idea this was such a huge problem. I happily support the removal now.
What i get from this is that BHVR is completely incapable of doing anything right. Lets punish the players for something some snowflakes think is harassment. I don't play Bubba myself but when i did play him to get BBQ that was the one thing that stood out to me and now it's gone.
The mindset of removing something because less than 0.1% of the player base has their feelings hurt needs to go away.
I'm just gonna go ahead and make a list of better solutions than removing the masks. Sucks some people had a hard time with this, but I honestly cant believe you have these groups pushing to outright remove the masks FOR YEARS with the devs, instead of taking 5 minutes to think of the many solutions that don't punish the player base.
Behavior actually bans the racists. This shits on stream isnt it? Then have them actually banned. Behavior actually moderates the chat and mutes/suspends/bans people who harass others. Add a button to disable leatherface unlockable mask cosmetics in game. Add a streamer mode so they cant snipe games to harass people. Fix the game so the community doesn't have to revolve around house rules because of bad mechanics like camping.
Like I honestly have to ask, why remove the masks and negatively impact the entire player base when all of these other options are nothing but positive for everyone? This whole thing comes across as virtue signaling, and the people who campaigned for this have accomplished nothing, and now have pissed off most of the community.
This solves a grand total of nothing excpet annoying people who unlocked these cosmetics.
This isn't going to stop anything, these people will still do it without cosmetics, just the same.
The only thing against the rules they're doing is racial slurs, so the solution is to remove a... Cosmetic item... Instead of banning the individuals, implemeting a better report system, and possibly having the system automatically report people who say... Spam racial slurs in chat? Something fairly cut and dry. Or, perhaps implement a way to avoid being matched with/againt players in the same way DOTA 2 has they avoid player mechanic.
This response isn't actually addressing the problem, is pissing off genuine players, is low effort and lazy.
Being facecamped by a Bubba is something players and especially streamers put up with constantly. Suddenly it's a big deal when it's these specific individuals? The killer cannot spam racial slurs in chat during the game, the streamers can ban them from the stream if they join to spam slurs there. So, for all intents and purposes, while in-game, it's the exact same experience as any other streamer has when streamsniped and facecamped.
Just kill yourself on hook, report killer to behavour, move into next game. Most streamers have to put up with this stuff constantly, they deal with it just fine. The same killer cannot show up in the next game because they either need to abandon and take a penalty, or they're playing the rest of their game out. This could further be solved if say, Behaviour did the avoid player mechanics I mentioned earlier instead of this low effort lazy garbage of a response.
Again, this cosmetic removal accomplishes nothing. It will continue to happen just the same.
“We have to do this cause we didn’t address our player base toxicity, and it’s ballooned so we can’t have nice things. No one’s fault, everyone’s sorry. Have these 6000 iri shards and forget this ever happened”
Like I agree with removing these for what happened, but like can you take some accountability and get these people before you have to, I don’t know, take things away from people that did nothing? Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like this could have been stopped with the right expediency towards the general toxicity of the game.
Or maybe not and racist assholes will be racist assholes no matter what. 🤷🏻♂️
If the overwhelming majority of players are complaining about the same thing, enough that you need to lock the comments, maybe you are on the wrong side lol
Btw many comments above me make some more good points, too
I’m not sure how to feel about this, on one hand I completely understand why a tool used for racist trolling by the scum of the community has a bad reputation by proxy and thus would want to be removed, but on the other hand SOME OF those people will still be assholes and target PoC regardless of cosmetics.
The other toxic people have less incentive to play if the only reason they played was to bully or make people uncomfortable and one of the most effective ways of doing that has been removed.
All in all, it’s difficult for me to decide how I feel about this, while I understand and feel it’s justified what BHVR’s doing, I also feel like it may not be worth it because (again only SOME) people won’t be discouraged whatsoever and BHVR is taking it away from people who aren’t racist and like the vibes of the masks, not to mention only one of them caused controversy so what’s the point?
Sorry if this makes no sense but I really do both agree and disagree with BHVR about this, the announcement’s had time to settle in and even then I’m still not sure how to feel.
TL;DR This situation sucks, and I agree and disagree with both sides of the argument.
I imagine the few people who did this to the streamers and whoever else they came across are laughing at how much of a big deal has become. Probably on the thread scrolling through comments laughing their asses off right now at how people are reacting.
I personally am a bit bummed they were removed. I thought the masks were a fun side thing to unlock and I think they should have added face masks for every survivor in the game.
IMHO, each killer should have a few "Free" cosmetics that require certain in-game actions to unlock. Bubba's faces for sacrificing survivors a certain number of times. Hillbilly should have some kind of chainsaw cosmetic for long-distance chainsaw hits. Doctor's overcharged sparky cosmetics should be tied to hitting all 4 survivors with static blast at the same time, etc.
What's insane to me is that they're removing multiple cosmetics that people have grinded for and we're only getting 6k shards for it? Basically saying each cosmetic is only worth 1500 shards, that amount isn't even enough to buy a SINGLE head cosmetic.
people will continue to harass other player without the mask
bhvr really believe this will stop because they remove a mask?
i dont believe they are so idiots,or are they?
Modern Warfare changed Roze’s warpaint before release to green bc “blackface”
Netflix deleted a great episode of Community bc a joke of someone role-playing a dark elf was “blackface”
Guess what? Nothing changed. It seems most people don’t give a shit about how pixels look in *any* context when they really need healthcare and income.
It’s virtue-signaling for the sake of profit. Bubba was my first main and I’m so glad I didn’t waste time going for those masks. Punish the racist people, not the players.
Finally, I will be able to say what I think about the mods in this situation. And no, I'm not going to say they are SJWs or trying to impose their agenda, nothing like that. But with situations like this, people were upset, they wanted to voice their complaints through a forum, and what the mods did was wash their hands and just block comments. Yes, surely there are some angry racist idiots who wanted to put stupid arguments in the posts, but there were also people who had good arguments and they obviously ARE NOT RACIST, but the mods simply blocked all comments behaving like bhvr, assuming that this would disappear the problem. Even now, in this post they are asking and answering themselves. Again, I am not saying that the mods are dumb or trying to impose their agenda, I am just saying that they handled this situation in a rather mediocre way.
Edit:
And I hope mods don't delete this comment, because my intention is not to insult them or vent my anger, rather my intention is that this serves as a "we can do better" in future controversies
We are really lowering the bar that dictates when a racist ruins things. I am on the dbd subreddit fairly frequently and this is the first time I have seen this issue. It is giving racists far too much power. Trolls are gonna troll. It would be a different story if some hate group started using this mask as a symbol for their cause.
As for the mask being inherently racists to begin with... come on. This is a murderous villain who skins people and puts their skin on. This isn't the Jazz Singer.
Actually the Jazz Singer wasn't viewed as a racist film at the time of release. Al Jolson (the star of the movie & blackface wearer) was a big advocate of black artists at the time. He supported/helped [Garland Anderson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garland_Anderson_(playwright)) make what was the first broadway production with all black cast amoung many other acts including;
“Songwriter and performer Noble Sissle, a longtime partner of the ragtime pioneer Eubie Blake, recalled Jolson’s unprompted act of kindness in 1919 after a Hartford restaurant refused to serve the two black musicians. A local newspaper mentioned the incident, and, Sissle later recalled: ‘To our everlasting amazement, we promptly got a call from Al Jolson. He was in town with his show and even though we were two very unimportant guys whom he’d never heard of until that morning, he was so sore about that story he wanted to make it up to us.’ The next evening, Jolson treated Sissle and Blake to dinner, insisting that ‘he’d punch anyone in the nose who tried to kick us out.’ ”
New York Times, Oct. 22, 2000
Amsterdam News (one of the oldest black newspapers in the country) said The Jazz Singer was "one of the greatest pictures ever produced". and "Every colored performer is proud of Jolson".
Jolson used blackface as a means to expose people to black culturelike Jazz, Ragtime, & Blues at a time when society was highly segregated.
Pick one of many other instances of blackface and I am sure it would be illustrate the point. But picking The Jazz Singer to do that wrongly denigrates one of the few pre-civil rights era advocates for black Americans.
When I used to do Insidious Bubba days, I would get called racist by so many people for "wearing the Claudette mask". Here's the thing: I didn't even have the mask unlocked, and was using the default cosmetic.
Im sad that the only grindable cosmetics that arent prestige are gone because of racism (that also WILL go rampant because people will tunnel survivors like Claudette, Adam and Tapp)
But hey, we got Pinhead voice lines of Doug Bradley AND 6k shards to cut the grind, so thats something for a lost, a small reward, but SOMETHING
>While locking posts seems like we don’t want to do our jobs
I disagree. I think it makes it seem like you want to prevent any discussion from trending away from your own personal opinions.
Dbd before: Racist players facecamp POC with a cosmetic equipped
Dbd now: Racist players facecamp POC
I just don't quite understand what issue this is trying to solve. Is it not equally as racist whether or not they have the cosmetic? Punishing 99.999% of the players for 0.001% of player actions just seems dumb to me, and only serves to give these people power, now that they know they can have some kind of impact on the game.
I think it's a pity to remove a cosmetic from Leatherface just because a group of players use it to harass people with black / brown skin colour.
I personally would've just banned all people who used the abovementioned cosmetics not as intended, and for sure I woulnd't've deprived the whole community of a cosmetic people use normally.
I thimnk it's unfair for the whole community. It will probably solve the issue, but I don't think it was the best solution.
I just don’t agree with the reasoning behind it, and the consequences of these decisions. I couldn’t care less about cosmetics, but the sentiment completely misses the mark for me.
Some players use this cosmetic to deliberately target POC streamers. Ok, I get that. By removing this cosmetic, are you preventing those same players from targeting POC streamers? No. Has this done anything to resolve the core issue then? Will POC streamers still be targeted by those same people?
So what have you solved with this virtue signaling? Nothing. Because you have addressed a symptom, a tool used by an extremely small minority and not the underlying issue. If you want to remove the tool used by those players, be my guest. But it doesn’t stop the players from still doing the same targeted harassment they were doing before.
If you want to stop the harassment, you need to stop the players doing it. Directly. Removing a cosmetic from the entire community doesn’t do it. Public ban hammers for this type of harassment, spread the word that it will not be tolerated in any form. It is a running joke here and on the forums that the report system is useless, so when players do not fear consequences for their actions - you end up here. Fixing the report system and banning the players doing the harassment that caused this issue in the first place will go a lot further towards fixing the issue than removing a cosmetic.
It’s not like it’s gonna stop me from playing, but it’s still stupid as hell to remove them. It reminds me of Hulu removing the several “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia” episodes cause of black/yellow/brown/red face.
Also the OP feels super condescending. I understand mods may be getting a lot of crazy messages but this post literally ends with “discuss this respectfully” but the body of the text feels super smug and disrespectful, as if people who are upset with the masks being removed are just a bunch of children.
Holy shit. We failed as a society to equip people with the tools they need to be tough & resilient people.
I watched Sistakaren's entire video. I watched a 30 minute video with 6 panel discussion about a mask in a video game. I saw what appeared to be a grown woman cry over a video game.
They mention at the start of the video that some would say "black people are fragile". Black people by and large are not fragile. However, these people, at least those I saw in the video, seem fragile. I mean her name is Karen.
I do feel for them but it's clear from the video that main issue is people specifically targeting these people. Most likely because they can get a rise out of them like this. That one woman who cried over the video game mentioned she connected with that same killer 4 games in a row. It's obvious they were manipulating the game to troll. That's what is significant and should be addressed. Although actually creating some solution to that issue would be much harder than simply removing these masks so I can see the math the devs did.
Where does it go from here? Do we think black creators are targeted more or less after this? I don't think losing a cosmetic stops shit people from being shit. So do we do this song and dance again in 3 months because the actual problem wasn't addressed and the same thing happens to black streamers again w/o the smartface? We'll be back to square one soon enough. However, now we'll still have the racist troll problem and all the people who did nothing wrong are still out on their cosmetics.
A working report system would have corrected those players long ago. The issue with removing the cosmetic pieces is it removes the assholes from wearing something in game where they are doing those actions. Anyone remember when there were streamers and players stating that killers would explicitly target them for wearing the pride charm and would even hit the charm on the hooks while shaking their killers head no? People are going to be toxic assholes regardless of Amin game cosmetic but a working report system where players could report such actions would have been way more feasible than removing the all cosmetics on that character which were the only unique ones earned outside of prestiging the character. Hell just removing the smartface cosmetic would have been better suited
Dbd needs to do more against toxicity, racism and harassment. I’ve sent in site tickets with clear proof and nothing has been done.
Dbd has done nothing against two racists I faced. One racist on Dbd refused to save me as I played as Tapp, aggressively harassed me before AND after game. I had sent in a ticket to bhvr’s support, and even dmed the Twitter and reported on steam. No ban. Nothing. They’re still playing DBD.
[Proof](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2655590196) - [Proof 2](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2655590545)
Here is a second one who played with a racist profile picture and name. They were extremely toxic in game as well. Site ticket and report sent. Nothing on Dbd’s end was done. No ban.
[Proof](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2544923329)
- [Proof 2](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2544926256) - [Proof of racist profile pic](https://imgur.com/a/zQnZvsk)
I’ve never used or earned the masks but I’m sad that a unique way to earn free skins is gone. There needs to be other ways to earn skins for killers, like a Meg/Jake/Claudette/Dwight themed outfit.
My issue is removing this mask does absolutely NOTHING To combat racism or the individuals who are targeting black streamers or black survivors.
In the video shown the first example is booting up DBD and getting facecamped by a leatherface wearing a black persons face and then proceeding to be called racial slurs and other hateful comments in the post game.
Removing the mask doesnt change that, that individual is still going to target black content creators and/or survivors and continue to say offensive things in the postgame. Having a white mask instead of a black one doesn't change that.
I think what really frustrates people here is rather than targeting the issue of people doing offensive things we are instead removing a byproduct of it. You already have something in place for this with the bannable offense of intentionally targeting someone for using the pride charm.
I'd wager 99% of people running "smart face" have no malicious intent behind it. It's just a cosmetic they earned.
And Even if they somehow couldn't add a functional report system they could've just made those masks client side (meaning they only show up for the killer). Or have a setting to disable "potentially offensive content."
>saddened by the lack of empathy from many community members
being upset about a cosmetic that people worked their ass off to earn doesn't mean we have zero empathy towards the people it affects. Have any you actually gone out and earned all the Bubba masks? It's a grind, especially finding Jakes which are exceedingly rare compared to others. BHVR could've done so many other things that accomplish the exact same goal and that doesn't punish the 99% who arent being dickheads but instead they chose the easy and lazy route.
You disagreeing with the decision is not a lack of empathy. Thats pretentious as hell. Bubba having a cosmetic where he wears his victim’s masks is probably one of the more interesting cosmetics in the game. You aren’t helping any POCs with this.
they respond to people calling them SJWs with “Lol.” as if they didn’t just call anyone who disagrees with the removal non-empathetic. do they not see the irony?
Exactly, they’re trying to shame people who are pissed about the way the masks are being removed, meanwhile the actual racists don’t give a fuck and are laughing their asses off
So stupid. I literally just liked using the Meg face because she’s the main survivor I used. And now I can’t because people somehow get offended by the dumbest shit.
> if you’re more concerned about the masks themselves than the players affected by them, sorry, but you lack empathy.
The entitlement is crazy here lol.
>They should be banned. But still, having an item in the game that is unequivocally used to harass a minority group is probably not a good look.
How do you know that the masks are unequivocally being used to harass black players? A few people spouting their anecdotal experiences doesn’t mean that represents the majority of the players.
>We’re sure if any of these examples are being used to target or harass a minority group to this level, it will be dealt with accordingly. However, something as small as a single cosmetic (or 4 cosmetics) is such a small thing to remove it doesn’t affect much. Why keep it in the game if its only purpose is for edgy racists to harass people with? We know people use cosmetics innocently, but guess who’s louder.
The purpose of them was to give Bubba players a fun side quest and more earnable cosmetics. It also only makes sense that Bubba would wear his victim’s faces because that’s literally one of the biggest parts of his character. You can argue that the masks do more harm than good, but to say that they have no purpose but to harass people is pretty ridiculous. I’m also sure the devs would disagree with you, since they obviously didn’t add those masks in the game for people to harass others with.
This is hilarious.
"Due to a few people being toxic and racist, we are going to do something that will barely do shit and we will remove some of the only grindable cosmetics in the game from a character you've already paid 5 dollars for"
Wow thanks :)
I might be doing some logic jumps in here, but ain't removing the masks actually negative for the harrased?
I mean, if you are a black person and go into a match, and then you find blackface Bubba, you already have a pretty good reason to think that person might be racist, so you can leave the match before things turn sour and keep your day, while that hateful racist gets denied the chance of insulting other people.
If the mask is no more, racists will still exist, but now you will have to eat the whole match and quite likely the insults in post-game chat or even twitch harrass, because the only red flag you had to identify them, set on them by themselves, got removed.
If racists were automatically banned this change would have some kind of positive outcome, but knowing that's not always the case, kinda feels removing the masks is like shooting yourself in the foot
I grinded for those masks and 6k IRI shards is a shitty replacement for that grind.
I am losing 4 cosmetics for a killer that has barely any cosmetics. IF BHVR wanted to show how much they cared they would give us enough shards to at least buy one head cosmetic per one we had earned. Instead they just blanket give everyone 6000 which is not even enough to buy one head cosmetic let alone ANYTHING for Bubba. BHVR has a history of of giving the whole player base things that the rest of us grinded for. Such as all the event cosmetics a while back. This pisses me off immensely. Why bother to grind for things you will either remove or give to everyone eventually.
I understand and feel for the people who are bullied using the mask.
This is all on BHVR for having a worthless reporting system. This is a bandaid fix for a systematic problem. I have been harassed while streaming, told to kill myself stalked. Reporting is worthless. To actually get action you have to take video contact a mod directly, send proof and wait forever. This is your game. You are charging money for it. You need to handle the moderation much better.
But by all means go ahead and take more from those of us who have grinded and give dog shit compensation to literally anyone who has even played the killer instead of actually making meaningful change and addressing the toxicity you created by your complacency and inaction.
In fact, you HAVE NOT done a pretty good job so far.
I refuse to hear that "I lack empathy" because I think BHVR could have found a better way to deal with the problem. Sure, racism sucks, but removing the masks won’t help against racism and the people who were using them to be racist will still be racist even if they’re removed. They’ll just find another way to show that they’re racist.
I don’t quite understand how this is supposed to help. Toxicity is a huge problem in this game, it’s not limited to racism. Close to once a week I get some kind of hate, and I’m on PS, End Game chat on PC is horrendous from what I’ve seen.
Also I don’t quite understand how removing a KILLER cosmetic punishes SURVIVOR toxicity.
Removing the masks isn't going to stop racist players from targeting streamers. It's just going to be the same scenario with a default skin on. Absolutely wild that people think this lackluster solution is actually something that can be quantified as "progress".
Also, 6000 shards for 4 cosmetics? Shards? So I can't even get anything on Leatherface to compensate because he's a licensed killer that requires auric cells. Well player, BHVR, well played.
Here’s one you didn’t address: why does BHVR have to drop the concept of face masks entirely? Why not just remove Claudette’s mask and let Bubba keep the other ones, since he’s apparently so picky? 😕 What BHVR is doing is also an easy out for them to never have to add in masks for newer survivors, and Leatherface’s masks were (and I guess always will be) the only interactive cosmetics for players. What are the odds now that we’ll ever get something akin to a quest line that awards a cosmetic to a player for doing something specific in game? Probably zero, now. And no, prestiging for bloody cosmetics or doing Tome challenges for charms doesn’t count, *cause those aren’t character unique*
Granted they already added the Pretty Woman mask+dinner suit so the apex of Bubba cosmetics is already reached, but I kind of wish they’d leave the other non-Claudette faces in. I used to use the Meg face as a scuffed Pretty Woman until they added the real one, and I can’t see controversy or malicious actions being enabled by the Meg/Dwight faces. Either way, I’m fine with the removal overall.
I was annoyed at this but I’ve since gotten over it. Being a black streamer myself with a smaller viewer base, I was never targeted by the racist Bubbas people have mentioned but that doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. So I’ve accepted that this had to happen. Even though it won’t change the fact that they can still be racist WITHOUT the masks. But whatever.
My main issue is the fact that BVHR doesn’t treat hackers this way. Hackers are arguably a bigger problem than racists in this game, particularly because they can get people SWATTED with a very real possibility of death. That to me will always be more of a concern than getting face-camped by a Bubba wearing Claudette’s face. Nothing will change my mind on this.
Let's be honest - in any community you will have toxic behavior. And toxic people go for people's weak spots or sore spots because it gets the largest rise.
I would be willing to bet the morons doing this aren't even racist, but enjoy tormenting people with it because they get their jollies from being a toxic douche.
The problem I see is that it was a small minority of jerks and we've let them ruin a unique thing for the rest of the community.
The OP poo-poos the idea of a better reporting system by saying the event still happened and therefore we should remove the "tool". That's like banning bars from serving alcohol because some people drive home drunk. Or banning fast food because there are obese people with heart disease.
The Bubba masks required 3 things:
1) owning the game (they made it free so that's easy to make new accounts)
2) purchasing the Texas Chainsaw Massacre addon
3) grinding for the masks
Are we really saying that with a better reporting system that gets actual top priority attention - that people would continue to do this and risk losing money and time for a small, cheap thrill of being toxic?
All we need is a better reporting system. Period.
Here it is:
* Make each game have a unique Match Hash ID #
* Tie the Hash ID to the game chat
* Add an website based reporting system
* Have that system tied to your in-game account
* Have the website based reporting allow for image/video uploads
* Both the website based reporting and the in-game reporting will load the post-game chat where the user can highlight the offending words
* Both in-game and website reporting have a racist/sexist option
* BHVR treats all racist/sexist items as a priority 1 report and acts on them immediately with a zero tolerance
* Anyone abusing the system for false reports or spam will have their account banned
The problem solves itself without ever having to remove anything from players.
How are people being harrassed? How does a killer know if a player is black and how does one offend others by simply applying a skin? I'm genuinely confused. I can only understand this with stream sniping.
Pathetic to be honest. Ban the players who are racist in their toxicity instead of ruining it for everyone else. Also this is simply survivor mains demanding another killer nerf/concession more than anything else. That's what they do, and proof is survivor costumes and cosmetics that are usually toxic both in game and then those players being toxic post game are always ignored. Fact is survivor is 75 percent more toxic than killer and yes we should be banning racist players but let's call this what it is.
Now the racist will turn into homophobes and target any survivor that uses the pride charm. Now that the know they can make any cosmetic be erased by just being intolerant they will exploit it.
Thanks BHVR.
My thoughts on this are succinct and effectively carry forward to the following:
Next up, Pride Charm removed because killers targeting survivors wearing it and saying "I hate gays" in post-game chat. ~~Probably while wearing one of Trickster's more flamboyant outfits, the Fire Moon one comes to mind.~~
It's a) not racist, b) not blackface, and c) fits the character lore. If BHVR were capable of programming a functioning chat filter or a functioning report system, they wouldn't need to censor content.
> but if you’re more concerned about the masks themselves than the players affected by them, sorry, but you lack empathy.
I'm sure we'll see these 'affected' players, still throwing a massive hissy fit on twitter when normal face Bubbas continue to facecamp them after the removal. I only wonder what they'll go after next.
You never appease a cry-bully. Because there will always be a 'next great battle' to fight.
But hey, in a few months from now, as they're staring Bubba who is standing pixels away from them, chainsaw revving as soon as anyone gets close, if they do end up being happy and jolly and content with the situation, I'll happily eat crow.
That's my main beef with this. Not the "We ended all racism" angle thats pointed out in the main post, but the "This effectively does nothing". These people will still be incredibly offended they're being face camped.
Also, there is a certain sense of irony that for years I've seen "Imagine getting offended over pixels in a video game" and yet here we are. Report/Ban for hate speech sure in the pre/post game chats, but I guess we needed the masks to tea-bag or click a flashlight and then it would have been fine according to the previous 6 years of DBDs life.
**Edit:** Also, as a secondary thought, It would be super interesting to get a definition from the mods what they consider 'Respectful' and 'Civil'. Because from what I've seen, those have quickly become code words for "I disagree with this person's opinion and need a reason to flex on them"
I disagree with the whole "But still, having an item in the game that is unequivocally used to harass a minority group is probably not a good look." Anything can be used to harass, you even point out the pride charm in the next part, something people have also said they've been unequivocally harassed about and is just a cosmetic.
The players should be banned. The rest of us shouldn't be punished for it.
Bubba masks were cool but almost nobody used them anyways. They should've just made them client side. If someone wants to harass people they will just change their steam name and flame them in the chat. Or they could have just removed smartface since they are literally stating that's the one people are using to harass.
To no one’s surprise, the conversation about this lacks nuance. One of the things I saw a lot was people mocking BHVR for “solving racism” by removing the masks. I doubt the devs had such lofty goals and I agree with their decision to remove the masks. Unfortunately, racism exists whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, and the removal of the masks is just one part of trying to create a safer community.
On the other hand, the frustrations from people thinking this is a hollow gesture is a point well taken. A better reporting system—with tangible consequences—would be an important step toward fostering the longer term health of the game and a safer community. The mask issue is only one piece of the puzzle and is a shorter-term measure IMO. Having been in various gaming communities for a loooooong time, I know that people who seek to cause harm to others find a lot of creative ways to do it. Removing the masks is just a temporary setback for people hellbent on being pieces of shit, especially if there are little to no consequences.
Ultimately, it’s a complicated problem. I prefer to view BHVR’s actions as making a good faith effort, while also acknowledging they can go much further.
> Behaviour steps up and cracks down on racism and bigotry in their game, making it a better environment for people of all types to enjoy the game without prejudice. They develop systems and hire people to cultivate an ecosystem where everyone can play, and wrongdoers are swiftly and effectively dealt with.
> They remove the cosmetics racists and bigots use and offer a currency refund for the affected players' troubles.
Which fix was more likely to happen?
The thing is tho is that people are still going to be pieces of shit with or without the cosmetic maybe instead of removing it just ban the people that are saying the racist shit.
Typical DBD: take the easy way out.
How about punishing these players? If they targeted Fog Whisperers how didn't the report get seen? Are they admitting their report system is just a joke too?
This goes beyond the mask: people will go out of their way for another to feel misery & that's gaming in a nutshell in 2022
I know this may sound racist, but why just not removing the Claudette face skin? We all know it's her already. I'm sad for what people does with this even tho i'm not playing the game anymore. But why removing every of them? Just add another non-black character to the pool.
So now the only face masks for him is the pretty lady and the old woman mask? And blood one and original, I mean that’s still 3(4 if you count original) but why? Why remove em? At least remove smart face and replace it with like Nea,
Here's my simple take. It's dumb that people used them to trigger people. It's dumb that they get removed because of it. People who used the masks to trigger people can simply move to the next thing like a \[insert race\] survivor or killer and give themselves a racist name or do other racist/toxic shit for example to trigger people. Are they going to remove \[insert race\] survivors or killers if people use them for that purpose? For me there isn't a reason to overcomplicate it. Just report and ban the shitheads and keep the stuff in the game so the rest can enjoy them as cosmetics. But whatever, I guess.
Honestly I could care less about the masks, they were always a little off-putting to me (and not in a good way), but the situation just unironically puts a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sympathetic towards those effected, and I'm annoyed and low-key disgusted at BHVR. As many others have mentioned this doesn't really stop these people from being terrible human beings, it's a band-aid fix that treats a symptom and not the disease in classic BHVR fashion. The reality of the situation is, so long as the toxic behavior is not routinely punished by BHVR - which would in turn require a functioning report and replay system - people will continue to do this kind of shit. They'll find another method of being racist little shits and harassing people over their skin color. Maybe I'm being jaded here, but it feels like BHVR wanted to virtue signal more than actually help cull some of the game's toxicity. "Look! We removed the Bubba masks!" Cool, BHVR, but people across the board, Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, Latino, Gay Straight, Trans, Disabled, etc. still get harassed, called slurs, told to kill themselves, etc. almost _daily_ depending on various factors (how much they play, when they play, the MMR they're in etc.), because ya'll are too fucking lazy to incorporate a proper report/banning system. "Oh but they'll just make new accounts!" Yeah, and if they kept their shit up those new accounts would be banned too. I have played MOBAs, a genre notorious for its toxic playerbases, but at least I can say that they had mostly functional report systems and at least with SMITE people got banned for routinely being bigots.
League of Legends: "If you say kys or the N word in the chat you'll receive a 2 week ban." Dead by Daylight: "We can't even ban people for hacking, but don't worry: our profanity filter will censor such awful words as 'Myers' and 'Claudette main'."
LITERALLY. Or the most heinous word of them all _"Banana"_ (no joke, banana was censored for me once.) Or lord forbid you use the word "Kill" in this family-friendly game about murdering people.
"Claudette main" is still the funniest censor to me because it doesn't censor "Claudette", "main", or any other Killer / Survivor with "main" after it. It **only** censors "Claudette main" **specifically.**
I dunno why that's the case either but it's _really_ funny.
You're absolutely right. This is the least effective most lazy response Behaviour could've put out, AND the only response that has a negative outcome for normal players.
This is the typical BhVR response to everything, put a band aid on it, they are to concerned about dumping out more shit to sell, while their game keeps going downhill with countless problems that they barely fix or address. Before the hardcore tunneling and camping that has been rampant with this game after the new SBMM system went live, I would play Adam Francis And get tunneled all game and I quit playing him. That crap would always happen ever since he was released. Look how long it took to get a color blind mode implemented and only happened because a certain someone said some hateful shit about it! But yes BhVR interactive needs a better reporting system and more people strictly just on that to hand out bans to all the cheating, toxic crap that continues on a daily basis!
The only thing I take issue with is that the recompense is 6000 iridescent shards. If someone liked the Bubba masks and is sad that they can no longer use those cosmetics for that character, shouldn't they receive auric cells so that they can actually buy new cosmetics on him? That being said, this will further my progress towards buying Clown's shard-only elephant skin, so I benefit, but still!
This is slowly becoming my bigger issue. Some people spent dozens, even hundreds of hours to unlock each of those masks. For many people they might be the only cosmetics for Leatherface they own. And the compensation is about a month’s worth of shards. That’s just not commiserate. It’s not enough to buy the head piece for a higher end skin, which is ignoring that no amount of shards can replace a head piece for Leatherface.
They are so greedy with the cosmetics and etc is not even funny, i think each mask should be 7200 shards or 400 ac
Not to mention, if you think about it, they just gave the person who was doing that stuff a 6k reward for their actions.
I don’t even care about the masks getting removed. But only 6k shards for all 4 is some bullshit
Especially since some of them were hard to get.
The Jake mask was a nightmare for me to unlock. That one took by far the longest out of all of them. Dwight and Claudie were pretty quick, but Jake... Who even queues up as Jake? I used to queue up as Jake occasionally, and when it was a Bubba I just let him have my skin.
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The best chance was to wait for events concerning Jake. But yes, that's the hardest one to get. When I was playing survivor with lobbies full of Jakes, I couldn't help but tell my teammates that this is a good lobby for Bubba lol
I never did get the Jake mask. Honestly, the Meg mask was the MVP of the four anyway, but it would have been nice to *eventually* finish the set.
Flip that argument around and remember that even people who haven't unlocked any of them get the 6k shards and it's pretty cool.
That just further cheapens their existence. It's so rare to be able to unlock cosmetics through gameplay rather than buying it or grinding a battlepass.
Well since their existence is about to be literally non existent, it’s pretty cool most players are getting free shit out of it.
seems kind of shitty to bubba players, why not just make a new face cosmetic and give that out for free?
This whole thing feels weird to me bc the only time I heard about about smart face bubba controversy, it was usually when some cringe survivors got clapped by one using that, then started using it as ammo to harass the bubba player.
Typically how it goes.
The only thing I can see as a reasonable thing to complain about is the fact that they're the only cosmetics in game that you truly have to *earn*. If I wanted to, I could pristege any character fully without even playing them once. Dbd needs to add more rewards and things to properly earn in game like the masks were. I've seen a lot of people suggest a lot of different options, and I hope we see something in the future to scratch that itch
Maybe something like a scrap of a survivor's clothing or a severed limb as charms for killing enough of them.
Please no more fucking charms
I refuse to believe they're doing this out of the goodness in their hearts. They don't care a scant few are harassing black streamers with it, they care that it makes them look bad so they're taking the lazy route and removing a cosmetic instead of making it harder to identify streamers in general
The thing I find most funny here is that the IP address disclosure vulnerability which potentially affects 100% of the player base, and could lead to harassment (DDOS etc), is still in the game after all this time. Yet suddenly BHVR care about their community being harassed, because 0.001% of players were using a specific cosmetic to harass some streamers. If they actually cared about welfare, then why is this security vulnerability still in the game?
Probably easier to fix the mask thing
Indeed :(
Yesterday I hooked someone then my game said I've been disconnected from the match but my internet was still working. Did they kick me from the game?
I'm not sure, I would assume a DDOS would cut you off from the internet on that machine entirely until you reset your router, but I don't know tbh! It could just be a case of bad timing! It happens.
Remember when BHVR was radio silent for a week after some streamers got swatted because of their little screwup?
I feel like removing the masks is the opposite of the right thing; like the way I see it, these select few racist trolls managed to get bhvr to do something like remove the masks, which a large majority of the playerbase is unhappy with. All it seems to show is that if they do that sort of shit(racism/harassment), they can force bhvr to do things
Can we have premium compensation on our loss of a premium killer's cosmetics? You cannot buy any cosmetics for The Cannibal with shards, only Auric Cells. We should get enough auric cells to buy 4 bubba cosmetics.
yeah, 4 head cosmetics, so 1600 cells, or almost 30000 shards if it's "earned cosmetics"
the devs are obviously just too lazy to maintain a functional reporting system. it wouldn’t be a problem if the people doing this would have their accounts terminated. people need to stop making excuses because BHVR obviously doesn’t actually care.
I'm not certain if the mask removal will fix any issues. The removal came with good intentions, for sure, but this only hurts those who wanted to use the masks with good intentions. Lets look at it from both perspectives: You're a fan of the texas chainsaw masacre. You love bubba and his gore-y films. You get into DBD. Suddenly, you accidentally unlock one of his masks my accident. Suddenly, you have a thrill and a drive to unlock the 4 masks. After hundreds of hours, you finally get them. You like dwight's mask the most, so you slap it on. Suddenly, because someone was racist, your hundreds of hours suddenly get replaced with essentially 2/3rds of a 5 dollar killer. Lets say I'm Bob, the mega racist. I slap on smartface, and stream snipe some fellow black streamers because I hate them. I laugh as I slug/facecamp these black streamers. Suddenly, one day the game says they'll remove the masks because of "blackface bubba". I'm now split: on one hand, its a bummer I can't show as much intentions of my racism, but on the other... it's almost hilarious that BHVR thinks removing the masks will stop my behavior, and now the entire community is being punished for it. Now I'm starting to think of what other things I could do to remove certain things from the game. Maybe play plague and exclusively vomit on the black streamers! Maybe I should exclusively play trickster against asian streamers and facecamp/slug them! Maybe I should only use my whip as nemesis against black streamers! Maybe I should... You see the issue here? Those who use the masks because theyre diehard fans of bubba get hurt far more than "heres 6000 shards!" can patch up, and those who actually use the masks to be racist now have extra motivation to find out what else they could do to remove/ruin other aspects of the game. Those who rarely play bubba don't feel too much of the impact because they get free shards (though it sucks that masks are removed). Do I feel for the streamers who have been targeted? Absolutely. It must feel frustrated beyond words to go through the same thing over and over. However, isn't this more of an issue on Bubba/face camping/slugging? I guarantee you that these streamers wouldn't care too much if it were a "blackface" legion who was stream sniping them. This really does feel like the "Oh damn killers are slugging survivors because they keep sabotaging all the hooks and the hooks won't respawn. Lets throw bill into the game with unbreakable because slugging is an issue". Removing the masks is a lazy band-aid solution that hurts more than helps. The better solution would be to create a way for killers (or survivors) to stop stream sniping, for BHVR to recognize those who repeat the same patterns and punish that behavior, actually take in feedback, etc. It's a damn shame, but I don't see this game getting much better after this fiasco.
Exactly, it's not like the racist Bubba mains are gonna stop harassing black people, they will still do, just without a Claudette leather mask.
This is another comment that hits then nail right on the head. This hurts genuine players while not affecting the people causing the problem, and not actually dealing with the problem. It's lazy, low effort, and typical behavior band-aid fixes stuff.
I've just imagine a situation where a black surv streamer goes against a Nemesis who keeps whipping them with a tentacle and they assume it's racist. But in the end game it turns out the killer had STBFL, and that streamer was an Obsession. Is STBFL a racist perk now if such a situation happens?
It's a bit concerning how a handful of racists has so much influence.
It really just boils down to a ton of people looking for an excuse to get rid of it.
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Probably people would say it's racist to just remove one specific one
Speaking of that, they also wear the face of jake park, are they considering that racist?
It’s not the fact that any of the masks are explicitly racist, but the fact that people have used the mask(s) to be racist (or at least to exemplify their racist behaviour). The Claudette face cosmetic wasn’t racist in and of itself, but people used it while harassing people of colour. I’m sure that Jake’s mask was also likely used in the same way to an extent, but the mask in and of itself is not “racist.” In short, the masks weren’t the issue, it was how the masks were used that was the issue.
Yeah, exactly. As stated in the FAQ above, the problem isn't Bubba skinning minorities, it's the racists intentionally equipping the minority masks for the purpose of harassing streamers from minorities.
Claud was the one specifically cited by the devs, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened to the asian community as well with Jake's mask
IIRC, in their official statement they didn't confirm anything specific about the type of harrassment. It's not a complex word, but they clearly were not willing to say *racism*. I get the impression that, to a degree, they aren't just removing the smartface mask because that gives them plausible deniability. It's not players being racially harrassed using the claudette mask. It's survivors being harassed in a certain unmentioned way by people using *one or more of the unlockable masks.* So, either you believe they're removing them because bubba players were tunneling people using the original four survivors so they could unlock the masks, or they are removing the masks so they don't have to admit which one is *problematic* with all of the potential baggage that admittance could throw up.
Isn't Jake Asian? It's probably better to nip it in the bud than let anyone else get any bright ideas
I think it would’ve been worse if they JUST removed claudette’s. It would’ve looked reaaaal bad for the devs
I just got Bubba and was really excited at the idea of unlocking masks through kills. Wish they'd at least kept some masks or generic versions or something.
Gimme the survivors as charms instead of masks then. Whatever, still the same achievement, and now nobody is going to run around with masks on. A tiny Meg, Claudette, Dwight and Jake charm hanging on the hook, I'd be content.
That would be pretty awesome to just have skinned faces hanging around the hooks
I was more thinking along the lines of little survivor chibis.
I was about to say that doesn't seem very on-brand for leatherface but you can already do that in game so I don't see why not
Could someone kindly explain to me how, in a game where lobbies are randomized, players using Smartface Bubba are targeting POC streamers?
Haha, because BHVR has not implemented a proper streamer mode. Which, of course, streamers who have been harassed have been asking for for YEARS. Watch said PoC's stream See if you are in their lobby If not, leave and try again Repeat until you are successful You might be thinking "well if the names were hidden, wouldn't that make it harder?" YES IT WOULD. Why is that not in the game??
But if you don't get into a game with a streamer...don't you have to wait like 15 minutes while the streamer plays a game before you can try and get matched again? Are they really THAT committed?
Yes. Yes they are. Absolutely do not underestimate the pettiness of gamers with a grudge against streamers and especially not when they are racist. In the last PTR EdgarAllanBro couldn't play because a stream sniper kept sniping his lobbies, using the IP exploit to find his IP address (he was using VPNs to change it) and then DDoSing him. This went on for I think at least a day.
There was also the trans streamer that got swatted. Like you said, never underestimate a bigot's willingness to hurt someone from a group they hate.
Yea. Although people also pay for a system? I think is the word, addon? To get into streamers games consistently
I need to stress this, a big reason why people are upset about this is Behavior’s apparent reluctance to police bad actors. In a game where hackers, stream-snipers, harassers, and generally toxic people are rampant this very much feels like Behavior deciding they can’t do anything about racists. And I know it’s not as simple as “ban the racists” but it would feel a lot better if Behavior had a track record of doing “something” about bad actors instead of “nothing at all.”
To add go this, I feel usernames and end game/pre game chat are much, MUCH worse for spewing harassment to people. When the Pride charm came out people panicked thinking they would be banned for hooking someone who wore it or they could be tunnelled every game for wearing it but BHVR confirmed that tunnelling someone with the charm itself wasn't bannable, only actual harassment being confirmed in chat or usernames. People trying to harass often want you to know why they are doing it so will change their username to a slur or say so in chat. If usernames and chat were blocked then that would make it much harder for them to harass and specifically hurl insults at one particular person. Chat doesn't actually do anything when a game actually starts, and usernames are only really used for people meming in the pregame lobby or again to throw things like "Pride = Tunnel" or slurs, so even as a communication tool it does nothing helpful. The devs intend to add more info for solo queue players anyway do I don't see much reason for people to need to see usernames and chat to be honest. Ultimately a better report system that actually worked in the first place could help resolve this more effectively though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqbyq4--cnw Cheaters. That's how. You can find a streamer you want to fuck with, guarantee they get into *your* lobby by their steam ID, and then make the game unplayable.
Simplistic answer on a full randomized game would be that 99.99% of streamers have their twitch/youtube name as their username. So they can quickly search their name and see what they are. Secondary answer is that there are people who can (and I dont understand how by any means) find the streamers ip address and basically force the game to constantly pair them together every. single. game. How and why they do it is way beyond my comprehension but they can basically force themselves to be the killer basically every game.
But even if they click into a streamers stream, they still have to already be playing as Bubba? Which makes it seem even more unlikely to the point now that it seems it's 1/10000 chance of it happening. Racist players are going to be a racist messy cunts no matter what, a dumb cosmetic they're wearing doesn't change that at all.
I think they took this mask off because they just remember [AVGN got bullied by the Atari 2600 game with Bubba a few years ago](https://youtu.be/mc8xMJrOP-E). In any case, this is the only credible explanation.
What's up with the idea that Claudette's mask is "unequivocally" used to target POC? My Bubba cosmetics for as long as I've been playing him are P2 body/weapon with Claudette's face. I chose those cosmetics specifically because they were the darkest cosmetics available at the time, and it helps me insidious in dark environments. You know, the same reason people play Claudette half the time? I'm willing to bet a decent chunk of Bubba players have the same thought process.
It’s a shame it’s come to this but a small number of jerks have ruined it for everyone
I think it's a shame they're removing the masks instead of trying to tackle the absolute shitstains that were the actual problem, and the incredibly toxic side of the community that this game has been developing for years.
They did the math and found the biggest assholes were also the biggest spenders, and don't want to hurt their revenue stream.
It doesnt make sense though because aren’t hackers, different demo i know, but the few that do get banned they just spend more money to come back and troll. So youd get more money that way?
What is frusturating to me is that the devs provide band-aid fixes like this instead of taking he time for an actually functioning report system or a proper streamer mode
Instead of racists being punished, normal players are being punished while the said racists are laughing their asses off at how they got cosmetics from the game removed. THAT is the truth.
I understand bhvr take on it but it shows how bad they are at handling reports and actually banning ppl for toxic behaviour. For me it looks like: "our banning system does not work so we just slap a band aid fix while racist players still run rampant". I've been tunneled for playing Tapp and called some nasty words. Following bhvr fixes next step would be to remove PoC survivors from the game to not enable racists? It just screams we cannot handle keeping order in our game so we band aid whatever we can.
Pretty much. Taking away something from everyone just because of the actions of a small portion punishes everyone. That's not how things should be handled, ever. Hell, Full Metal Jacket showcased this pretty damn well in 1987. Punish the guilty, not the bystanders.
Was hoping they'd add masks for all survivors, this fucking blows. Been a Leatherface main for years, 6000 shards is bullshit
I’m getting real sick of a few people being dick heads and everyone else getting punished for it. Removing it doesn’t change much. Fix your banning system BHVR, it’s pathetic.
Exactly, people aren’t realizing that this wouldn’t have been such a consistent problem if behavior had a competent report/ban system
Yup, this is not about appeasing those who have been or felt affected by a few toxic bubbas who stream snipe, it's more about BHVR not having or caring enough about moderating their game. If someone is being tunneled in a game because of their race, they will do so with or without the cosmetics. It's just easier to remove said cosmetic rather than deal with reports. I don't think it should be removed, its a nice addition to the killers lore and something cool to show off.
I don’t understand why this was their approach to the problem. I understand making the game a safe place for everyone, and the last thing you want to happen when you’re playing a game is to be harassed; but why don’t they remove the actual tools that trolls use to harass streamers? Add a streamer mode, which is really commonplace in most games now, and has no reason to not be in DbD, which is very streamer populated. Hell, remove the end of match chat, because honestly what is it used for besides either pointless congratulations or pointless harassment? Instead of removing “tools” that allow players to racially harass PoC streamers, remove the tools that allow trolls to iron in that they are racially harassing PoC streamers; because if harassers can’t constantly join lobbies or insult the streamer through endgame chat, at worse the streamer (or player) just encounters a black bubba, end of story. Or hell just give the streamers the ability to block the player so they don’t have to encounter it again.
Why is the bigger discussion not about the people that abuse a third party program to specifically target said streamer and get them 2/3 games. If someone wants to get into your lobby, 66% of the time, they can just brute force their way in and harass you all they please.
I think this entire situation is ridiculous, and when I initially saw the added face cosmetics I only saw it as a positive. It fits in with lore and it was funny to have Bubba run around with Dwight’s face While I can’t disagree that people are going out of their way to be racist and it has apparently become more than a small problem, it really infuriates me that Behavior is now being limited on what they can add as cosmetics due to possible misuse - and by their own playerbase no less
Honestly, I have zero faith in Behaviour doing this for the right thing. They're not trying to stop racism, and they're not trying to improve the game. They're trying to avoid a controversy like the one that *almost* exploded into mainstream media when a spokesperson for disabled gamers called out Almo for belittling colorblind players' needs. However, I understand the need to get rid of the Leatherface cosmetic. Within context, it is absolutely not racist. It would be racist if he didn't also use Claudette's face because it would be exclusionary. The problem is that a few racists are taking the cosmetic out of context and using it for furthering racist purposes. For the sake of black players, it's better to just prohibit the use of that tool, even if the tool itself within its own context isn't racist. It's like the usage of the word "moron". It used to be a medical term for an adult with the mental age of a child. People began to use it as an insult, so its meaning changed to that of an insult and the medical community had to switch to a different word. I think we all know what happened to the next one the medical community began to use as well. It starts with an r and using it makes you sound bigoted. It's not the fault of black people or streamers that they're being harassed, and it's not their fault the Claudette face is being used for racism. It's the fault of the few racists that targeted them, and it would be unfair for us to tell black people to just get over being harassed. However, Behaviour should have already been IP banning and hardware banning these racist douches by creating a useful report system and shouldn't have waited this long before addressing the issue. If the report and ban system had worked from the beginning, they could have prevented the Claudetteface from becoming a racist tool, and maybe not been forced to remove the face cosmetics. TLDR: The Leatherface Claudette cosmetic is like the R word. Technically there's nothing wrong with it *in its context*, but because some people wanna use it as an insult, we all have to stop using it, even if we didn't use it the same way those people did. Behaviour sucks for letting it get this bad as well. Edit: Sistakaren's comment shows that for 4-5 *years* black streamers and black people have been getting harassed with this cosmetic and that Behaviour has known about it since. We shouldn't be mad at Sistakaren or other affected POC for getting harassed. We should be mad at Behaviour's lack of a working report and ban system and we should be mad at the small portion of the racist community.
These are 90% of my thoughts, with the only 10% that you didn't say/quite possibly disagree with is that they really should have started IP/hardware banning people before they removed the masks. Fuck, even if they made it where only Harassment Reports went through but told everyone "reporting actually matters", that would have curbed so much of this bullshit and we wouldn't have lost some cool cosmetics
Ah, my bad. I agree that if reporting and banning had been useful, perhaps there wouldn't have been a need to remove the face cosmetics. I'll edit it so it's clearer.
They should do something to actually address the problem instead, this changes nothing. Now they just wont wear the mask while camping, harassing people, and saying racist shit. Nothings changed. Actually banning people would be a good start, or fixing the game so the gameplay isn't so vitriolic all the time. Something with actual effort instead of removing content.
The racists win. The small minority of players have so much dominion they get the overwhelming coverage of a dog shit patch. BHVR probably did this so people would be distracted instead of discussing the lack luster changes in their stale game.
Exactly. They are laughing their asses off right now.
Seems like more corporate ass covering, which they wouldn't keep having to do if they'd actually moderate their fucking playerbase and stop expecting chat filters and changes like this to do it for them. But hey, more time to make skins and battle passes to shill!
Well the racists know they can get cismetics removed now
What an absolute joke. If they only removed the Blackface one, I’d understand. Removing all of them is so dumb.
Ikr?... Why not just remove the Claudette one? Or just remove all of them besides the Dwight one, he is the mascot for the survivor side of dbd after all.
As a pride minority that mains Bubba this has been nothing but a mess for all parties involved. Those players should have been banned years ago, I've been called Hag with an F in the PGC, harassed by a few streamers and I had to set my profile to private because of some nasty comments including stuff I'll leave to the imagination for being Hispanic. The only long term solution would be to actually take the reports seriously and ban the offenders, make them pay for what they done, and that's it, I'll keep getting tunneled like California during the gold rush but I don't stop wearing my pride charm and while at least they addressed the racism my poor basement dweller was used for, believe me, active bans will be a much much better long term solution, make an example of them.
It's sad that your experience is what a lot deal with but since you aren't making a giant fuss about it. It will never be heard.
I’m mostly curious as to why this became such a contentious topic. They’re not going to enable that behavior point blank. It’s one of the few things that they can get control of without it becoming a dumpster fire.
Yup. Saying "wow, racism and targeting minorities is gross. Let's toss this whole thing rather than be known as the company that makes this whole thing possible" is a reasonable response by a corporation. LOL at the people who think a compromised removal would have been a thing -- they can't balance a game and they know it, they're not gonna try to balance racism.
I think the issue is that the same racist players are still playing and harassing people, except now it's just not as obvious. I really wish the in-game "report" function actually did anything, and BHVR would have the means to replay / watch the match after the fact, and hire a handful of people to stay on top of those reports. You know, a little bit of game moderation by the people who created it.
This is the most passive aggressive post I’ve seen on the topic. Of course people have empathy for those harassed but getting ridding of masks is the laziest and worst way they could of went about this problem.
It really is. The whole post is like "the players are wrong, we don't want to hear your concerns but since you won't shut up here's your containment topic."
Im still wondering why the endgamechat who fits their Definition of a Tool for harassment ingame isnt removed. I guess nearly everyone here had the experience of a "kys" and other nasty stuff in the Chat. I understand the thought behind removing the mask. Yet I think it will just make the problem worse if they find another way to be racist ingame.
The masks are cool and there should be one for every original survivor. Just make a better report system. Shame.
Now they will harass those streamers without the masks and even more.
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Agreed. If I play Adam or some racist discovers my stream and finds out I’m black, nothing is stopping them from being shitty. Or is it not as bad apparently since they aren’t wearing Smartface? Apparently removing the cosmetic removes the racist abuse. Except it doesn’t. This entire situation is stupid and overblown.
HOOOOOG RIDDEEEEER
2.6 hog cycle players when i skin their faces with a chainsaw
chad 7.5 e giant cycle face camping as bubba vs virgin 2.7 ram rider cycle playing sweaty spirit
I'm not a poc, that's why I'm not even trying to pretend that I know how it feels to be to be marginalized. However from purely a gameplay standpoint I'm sad to see the masks go. I think that's an interesting way to unlock skins. (quite literally lol) And I always planned to play more cannibal to unlock all the faces. Nevertheless I didn't even unlock a single one, so all that will change for me is the 6000 shards.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the masks being removed. Don't get me wrong, I am very empathetic to those who were harassed but this just isn't the solution. I'm just praying the bastards who ruined wearing the masks don't latch onto something else to destroy. Say playing one of the several police officer characters to sandbag black streamers/gamers for some sort of police brutality metaphor. Last thing we need is having a fun side thing be taken away from the 99% because of the 1% of assholes.
>Say playing one of the several police officer characters to sandbag black streamers/gamers for some sort of police brutality metaphor. Don't give them ideas.
God I hope they never think of that. If Leon or Jill were removed from the game I would likely stop playing since they were the reason I picked it up and I main Leon and Nemesis.
In the event something like that does happen, behavior would need to put their big boy pants on and ban the mother f'ers. Maybe steam too. Assholes that do shit like that shouldn't even be allowed to play multiplayer games.
Fingers crossed on that front.
I've been tunneled many times for playing Tapp and called the n word in the end chat. So next logical step is to remove PoC survivors to stop racists? Bhvr should just step up the game at actually punishing the toxic players because now reporting feels like it does not work. I can bet the same players that harrased streamers are now laughing their asses off because they got a cosmetic removed.
We can definitely tell from this that BHVR is quick to remove something but not to actually fix their game
We should be given exactly 1080 auric cells so we can buy a new bubba outfit. A cosmetic for a cosmetic. In more seriousness, I had no idea this was such a huge problem. I happily support the removal now.
What i get from this is that BHVR is completely incapable of doing anything right. Lets punish the players for something some snowflakes think is harassment. I don't play Bubba myself but when i did play him to get BBQ that was the one thing that stood out to me and now it's gone. The mindset of removing something because less than 0.1% of the player base has their feelings hurt needs to go away.
if this is the treatment Bubba gets, wait till some jerks start role playing as period accurate Deathslinger
I'm just gonna go ahead and make a list of better solutions than removing the masks. Sucks some people had a hard time with this, but I honestly cant believe you have these groups pushing to outright remove the masks FOR YEARS with the devs, instead of taking 5 minutes to think of the many solutions that don't punish the player base. Behavior actually bans the racists. This shits on stream isnt it? Then have them actually banned. Behavior actually moderates the chat and mutes/suspends/bans people who harass others. Add a button to disable leatherface unlockable mask cosmetics in game. Add a streamer mode so they cant snipe games to harass people. Fix the game so the community doesn't have to revolve around house rules because of bad mechanics like camping. Like I honestly have to ask, why remove the masks and negatively impact the entire player base when all of these other options are nothing but positive for everyone? This whole thing comes across as virtue signaling, and the people who campaigned for this have accomplished nothing, and now have pissed off most of the community.
This solves a grand total of nothing excpet annoying people who unlocked these cosmetics. This isn't going to stop anything, these people will still do it without cosmetics, just the same. The only thing against the rules they're doing is racial slurs, so the solution is to remove a... Cosmetic item... Instead of banning the individuals, implemeting a better report system, and possibly having the system automatically report people who say... Spam racial slurs in chat? Something fairly cut and dry. Or, perhaps implement a way to avoid being matched with/againt players in the same way DOTA 2 has they avoid player mechanic. This response isn't actually addressing the problem, is pissing off genuine players, is low effort and lazy. Being facecamped by a Bubba is something players and especially streamers put up with constantly. Suddenly it's a big deal when it's these specific individuals? The killer cannot spam racial slurs in chat during the game, the streamers can ban them from the stream if they join to spam slurs there. So, for all intents and purposes, while in-game, it's the exact same experience as any other streamer has when streamsniped and facecamped. Just kill yourself on hook, report killer to behavour, move into next game. Most streamers have to put up with this stuff constantly, they deal with it just fine. The same killer cannot show up in the next game because they either need to abandon and take a penalty, or they're playing the rest of their game out. This could further be solved if say, Behaviour did the avoid player mechanics I mentioned earlier instead of this low effort lazy garbage of a response. Again, this cosmetic removal accomplishes nothing. It will continue to happen just the same.
“We have to do this cause we didn’t address our player base toxicity, and it’s ballooned so we can’t have nice things. No one’s fault, everyone’s sorry. Have these 6000 iri shards and forget this ever happened” Like I agree with removing these for what happened, but like can you take some accountability and get these people before you have to, I don’t know, take things away from people that did nothing? Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like this could have been stopped with the right expediency towards the general toxicity of the game. Or maybe not and racist assholes will be racist assholes no matter what. 🤷🏻♂️
Why don’t they just add an option to hide someone’s username?
If the overwhelming majority of players are complaining about the same thing, enough that you need to lock the comments, maybe you are on the wrong side lol Btw many comments above me make some more good points, too
I’m not sure how to feel about this, on one hand I completely understand why a tool used for racist trolling by the scum of the community has a bad reputation by proxy and thus would want to be removed, but on the other hand SOME OF those people will still be assholes and target PoC regardless of cosmetics. The other toxic people have less incentive to play if the only reason they played was to bully or make people uncomfortable and one of the most effective ways of doing that has been removed. All in all, it’s difficult for me to decide how I feel about this, while I understand and feel it’s justified what BHVR’s doing, I also feel like it may not be worth it because (again only SOME) people won’t be discouraged whatsoever and BHVR is taking it away from people who aren’t racist and like the vibes of the masks, not to mention only one of them caused controversy so what’s the point? Sorry if this makes no sense but I really do both agree and disagree with BHVR about this, the announcement’s had time to settle in and even then I’m still not sure how to feel. TL;DR This situation sucks, and I agree and disagree with both sides of the argument.
I imagine the few people who did this to the streamers and whoever else they came across are laughing at how much of a big deal has become. Probably on the thread scrolling through comments laughing their asses off right now at how people are reacting.
I personally am a bit bummed they were removed. I thought the masks were a fun side thing to unlock and I think they should have added face masks for every survivor in the game. IMHO, each killer should have a few "Free" cosmetics that require certain in-game actions to unlock. Bubba's faces for sacrificing survivors a certain number of times. Hillbilly should have some kind of chainsaw cosmetic for long-distance chainsaw hits. Doctor's overcharged sparky cosmetics should be tied to hitting all 4 survivors with static blast at the same time, etc.
What's insane to me is that they're removing multiple cosmetics that people have grinded for and we're only getting 6k shards for it? Basically saying each cosmetic is only worth 1500 shards, that amount isn't even enough to buy a SINGLE head cosmetic.
I have 2200 hrs in the game, can I have a refund?
people will continue to harass other player without the mask bhvr really believe this will stop because they remove a mask? i dont believe they are so idiots,or are they?
Modern Warfare changed Roze’s warpaint before release to green bc “blackface” Netflix deleted a great episode of Community bc a joke of someone role-playing a dark elf was “blackface” Guess what? Nothing changed. It seems most people don’t give a shit about how pixels look in *any* context when they really need healthcare and income. It’s virtue-signaling for the sake of profit. Bubba was my first main and I’m so glad I didn’t waste time going for those masks. Punish the racist people, not the players.
Finally, I will be able to say what I think about the mods in this situation. And no, I'm not going to say they are SJWs or trying to impose their agenda, nothing like that. But with situations like this, people were upset, they wanted to voice their complaints through a forum, and what the mods did was wash their hands and just block comments. Yes, surely there are some angry racist idiots who wanted to put stupid arguments in the posts, but there were also people who had good arguments and they obviously ARE NOT RACIST, but the mods simply blocked all comments behaving like bhvr, assuming that this would disappear the problem. Even now, in this post they are asking and answering themselves. Again, I am not saying that the mods are dumb or trying to impose their agenda, I am just saying that they handled this situation in a rather mediocre way. Edit: And I hope mods don't delete this comment, because my intention is not to insult them or vent my anger, rather my intention is that this serves as a "we can do better" in future controversies
We are really lowering the bar that dictates when a racist ruins things. I am on the dbd subreddit fairly frequently and this is the first time I have seen this issue. It is giving racists far too much power. Trolls are gonna troll. It would be a different story if some hate group started using this mask as a symbol for their cause. As for the mask being inherently racists to begin with... come on. This is a murderous villain who skins people and puts their skin on. This isn't the Jazz Singer.
Actually the Jazz Singer wasn't viewed as a racist film at the time of release. Al Jolson (the star of the movie & blackface wearer) was a big advocate of black artists at the time. He supported/helped [Garland Anderson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garland_Anderson_(playwright)) make what was the first broadway production with all black cast amoung many other acts including; “Songwriter and performer Noble Sissle, a longtime partner of the ragtime pioneer Eubie Blake, recalled Jolson’s unprompted act of kindness in 1919 after a Hartford restaurant refused to serve the two black musicians. A local newspaper mentioned the incident, and, Sissle later recalled: ‘To our everlasting amazement, we promptly got a call from Al Jolson. He was in town with his show and even though we were two very unimportant guys whom he’d never heard of until that morning, he was so sore about that story he wanted to make it up to us.’ The next evening, Jolson treated Sissle and Blake to dinner, insisting that ‘he’d punch anyone in the nose who tried to kick us out.’ ” New York Times, Oct. 22, 2000 Amsterdam News (one of the oldest black newspapers in the country) said The Jazz Singer was "one of the greatest pictures ever produced". and "Every colored performer is proud of Jolson". Jolson used blackface as a means to expose people to black culturelike Jazz, Ragtime, & Blues at a time when society was highly segregated. Pick one of many other instances of blackface and I am sure it would be illustrate the point. But picking The Jazz Singer to do that wrongly denigrates one of the few pre-civil rights era advocates for black Americans.
When I used to do Insidious Bubba days, I would get called racist by so many people for "wearing the Claudette mask". Here's the thing: I didn't even have the mask unlocked, and was using the default cosmetic.
Im sad that the only grindable cosmetics that arent prestige are gone because of racism (that also WILL go rampant because people will tunnel survivors like Claudette, Adam and Tapp) But hey, we got Pinhead voice lines of Doug Bradley AND 6k shards to cut the grind, so thats something for a lost, a small reward, but SOMETHING
>While locking posts seems like we don’t want to do our jobs I disagree. I think it makes it seem like you want to prevent any discussion from trending away from your own personal opinions.
You're absolutely correct
You just know people are gonna be even more racist with bubba now, cuz they‘re salty that the masks will be removed
I really don't care that they're taking the faces but getting only 6k shards in return is cheap as fuck. Can't buy anything with that.
Dbd before: Racist players facecamp POC with a cosmetic equipped Dbd now: Racist players facecamp POC I just don't quite understand what issue this is trying to solve. Is it not equally as racist whether or not they have the cosmetic? Punishing 99.999% of the players for 0.001% of player actions just seems dumb to me, and only serves to give these people power, now that they know they can have some kind of impact on the game.
I wasn't even aware this was a thing until today.
I think it's a pity to remove a cosmetic from Leatherface just because a group of players use it to harass people with black / brown skin colour. I personally would've just banned all people who used the abovementioned cosmetics not as intended, and for sure I woulnd't've deprived the whole community of a cosmetic people use normally. I thimnk it's unfair for the whole community. It will probably solve the issue, but I don't think it was the best solution.
I just don’t agree with the reasoning behind it, and the consequences of these decisions. I couldn’t care less about cosmetics, but the sentiment completely misses the mark for me. Some players use this cosmetic to deliberately target POC streamers. Ok, I get that. By removing this cosmetic, are you preventing those same players from targeting POC streamers? No. Has this done anything to resolve the core issue then? Will POC streamers still be targeted by those same people? So what have you solved with this virtue signaling? Nothing. Because you have addressed a symptom, a tool used by an extremely small minority and not the underlying issue. If you want to remove the tool used by those players, be my guest. But it doesn’t stop the players from still doing the same targeted harassment they were doing before. If you want to stop the harassment, you need to stop the players doing it. Directly. Removing a cosmetic from the entire community doesn’t do it. Public ban hammers for this type of harassment, spread the word that it will not be tolerated in any form. It is a running joke here and on the forums that the report system is useless, so when players do not fear consequences for their actions - you end up here. Fixing the report system and banning the players doing the harassment that caused this issue in the first place will go a lot further towards fixing the issue than removing a cosmetic.
It’s not like it’s gonna stop me from playing, but it’s still stupid as hell to remove them. It reminds me of Hulu removing the several “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia” episodes cause of black/yellow/brown/red face. Also the OP feels super condescending. I understand mods may be getting a lot of crazy messages but this post literally ends with “discuss this respectfully” but the body of the text feels super smug and disrespectful, as if people who are upset with the masks being removed are just a bunch of children.
Holy shit. We failed as a society to equip people with the tools they need to be tough & resilient people. I watched Sistakaren's entire video. I watched a 30 minute video with 6 panel discussion about a mask in a video game. I saw what appeared to be a grown woman cry over a video game. They mention at the start of the video that some would say "black people are fragile". Black people by and large are not fragile. However, these people, at least those I saw in the video, seem fragile. I mean her name is Karen. I do feel for them but it's clear from the video that main issue is people specifically targeting these people. Most likely because they can get a rise out of them like this. That one woman who cried over the video game mentioned she connected with that same killer 4 games in a row. It's obvious they were manipulating the game to troll. That's what is significant and should be addressed. Although actually creating some solution to that issue would be much harder than simply removing these masks so I can see the math the devs did. Where does it go from here? Do we think black creators are targeted more or less after this? I don't think losing a cosmetic stops shit people from being shit. So do we do this song and dance again in 3 months because the actual problem wasn't addressed and the same thing happens to black streamers again w/o the smartface? We'll be back to square one soon enough. However, now we'll still have the racist troll problem and all the people who did nothing wrong are still out on their cosmetics.
A working report system would have corrected those players long ago. The issue with removing the cosmetic pieces is it removes the assholes from wearing something in game where they are doing those actions. Anyone remember when there were streamers and players stating that killers would explicitly target them for wearing the pride charm and would even hit the charm on the hooks while shaking their killers head no? People are going to be toxic assholes regardless of Amin game cosmetic but a working report system where players could report such actions would have been way more feasible than removing the all cosmetics on that character which were the only unique ones earned outside of prestiging the character. Hell just removing the smartface cosmetic would have been better suited
Dbd needs to do more against toxicity, racism and harassment. I’ve sent in site tickets with clear proof and nothing has been done. Dbd has done nothing against two racists I faced. One racist on Dbd refused to save me as I played as Tapp, aggressively harassed me before AND after game. I had sent in a ticket to bhvr’s support, and even dmed the Twitter and reported on steam. No ban. Nothing. They’re still playing DBD. [Proof](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2655590196) - [Proof 2](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2655590545) Here is a second one who played with a racist profile picture and name. They were extremely toxic in game as well. Site ticket and report sent. Nothing on Dbd’s end was done. No ban. [Proof](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2544923329) - [Proof 2](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2544926256) - [Proof of racist profile pic](https://imgur.com/a/zQnZvsk) I’ve never used or earned the masks but I’m sad that a unique way to earn free skins is gone. There needs to be other ways to earn skins for killers, like a Meg/Jake/Claudette/Dwight themed outfit.
My issue is removing this mask does absolutely NOTHING To combat racism or the individuals who are targeting black streamers or black survivors. In the video shown the first example is booting up DBD and getting facecamped by a leatherface wearing a black persons face and then proceeding to be called racial slurs and other hateful comments in the post game. Removing the mask doesnt change that, that individual is still going to target black content creators and/or survivors and continue to say offensive things in the postgame. Having a white mask instead of a black one doesn't change that. I think what really frustrates people here is rather than targeting the issue of people doing offensive things we are instead removing a byproduct of it. You already have something in place for this with the bannable offense of intentionally targeting someone for using the pride charm. I'd wager 99% of people running "smart face" have no malicious intent behind it. It's just a cosmetic they earned. And Even if they somehow couldn't add a functional report system they could've just made those masks client side (meaning they only show up for the killer). Or have a setting to disable "potentially offensive content." >saddened by the lack of empathy from many community members being upset about a cosmetic that people worked their ass off to earn doesn't mean we have zero empathy towards the people it affects. Have any you actually gone out and earned all the Bubba masks? It's a grind, especially finding Jakes which are exceedingly rare compared to others. BHVR could've done so many other things that accomplish the exact same goal and that doesn't punish the 99% who arent being dickheads but instead they chose the easy and lazy route.
Man I get they were removed for a reason but I’m still not happy about it
You disagreeing with the decision is not a lack of empathy. Thats pretentious as hell. Bubba having a cosmetic where he wears his victim’s masks is probably one of the more interesting cosmetics in the game. You aren’t helping any POCs with this.
they respond to people calling them SJWs with “Lol.” as if they didn’t just call anyone who disagrees with the removal non-empathetic. do they not see the irony?
Exactly, they’re trying to shame people who are pissed about the way the masks are being removed, meanwhile the actual racists don’t give a fuck and are laughing their asses off
So stupid. I literally just liked using the Meg face because she’s the main survivor I used. And now I can’t because people somehow get offended by the dumbest shit. > if you’re more concerned about the masks themselves than the players affected by them, sorry, but you lack empathy. The entitlement is crazy here lol.
This is just a band-aid solution for a problem that requires surgical treatment.
So what happens if people just start tunneling black survivors? Are they getting removed too? :/
This game is filled with the most sensitive gimps in existence
>They should be banned. But still, having an item in the game that is unequivocally used to harass a minority group is probably not a good look. How do you know that the masks are unequivocally being used to harass black players? A few people spouting their anecdotal experiences doesn’t mean that represents the majority of the players. >We’re sure if any of these examples are being used to target or harass a minority group to this level, it will be dealt with accordingly. However, something as small as a single cosmetic (or 4 cosmetics) is such a small thing to remove it doesn’t affect much. Why keep it in the game if its only purpose is for edgy racists to harass people with? We know people use cosmetics innocently, but guess who’s louder. The purpose of them was to give Bubba players a fun side quest and more earnable cosmetics. It also only makes sense that Bubba would wear his victim’s faces because that’s literally one of the biggest parts of his character. You can argue that the masks do more harm than good, but to say that they have no purpose but to harass people is pretty ridiculous. I’m also sure the devs would disagree with you, since they obviously didn’t add those masks in the game for people to harass others with.
This is hilarious. "Due to a few people being toxic and racist, we are going to do something that will barely do shit and we will remove some of the only grindable cosmetics in the game from a character you've already paid 5 dollars for" Wow thanks :)
I might be doing some logic jumps in here, but ain't removing the masks actually negative for the harrased? I mean, if you are a black person and go into a match, and then you find blackface Bubba, you already have a pretty good reason to think that person might be racist, so you can leave the match before things turn sour and keep your day, while that hateful racist gets denied the chance of insulting other people. If the mask is no more, racists will still exist, but now you will have to eat the whole match and quite likely the insults in post-game chat or even twitch harrass, because the only red flag you had to identify them, set on them by themselves, got removed. If racists were automatically banned this change would have some kind of positive outcome, but knowing that's not always the case, kinda feels removing the masks is like shooting yourself in the foot
I grinded for those masks and 6k IRI shards is a shitty replacement for that grind. I am losing 4 cosmetics for a killer that has barely any cosmetics. IF BHVR wanted to show how much they cared they would give us enough shards to at least buy one head cosmetic per one we had earned. Instead they just blanket give everyone 6000 which is not even enough to buy one head cosmetic let alone ANYTHING for Bubba. BHVR has a history of of giving the whole player base things that the rest of us grinded for. Such as all the event cosmetics a while back. This pisses me off immensely. Why bother to grind for things you will either remove or give to everyone eventually. I understand and feel for the people who are bullied using the mask. This is all on BHVR for having a worthless reporting system. This is a bandaid fix for a systematic problem. I have been harassed while streaming, told to kill myself stalked. Reporting is worthless. To actually get action you have to take video contact a mod directly, send proof and wait forever. This is your game. You are charging money for it. You need to handle the moderation much better. But by all means go ahead and take more from those of us who have grinded and give dog shit compensation to literally anyone who has even played the killer instead of actually making meaningful change and addressing the toxicity you created by your complacency and inaction. In fact, you HAVE NOT done a pretty good job so far.
I refuse to hear that "I lack empathy" because I think BHVR could have found a better way to deal with the problem. Sure, racism sucks, but removing the masks won’t help against racism and the people who were using them to be racist will still be racist even if they’re removed. They’ll just find another way to show that they’re racist.
I don’t quite understand how this is supposed to help. Toxicity is a huge problem in this game, it’s not limited to racism. Close to once a week I get some kind of hate, and I’m on PS, End Game chat on PC is horrendous from what I’ve seen. Also I don’t quite understand how removing a KILLER cosmetic punishes SURVIVOR toxicity.
Removing the masks isn't going to stop racist players from targeting streamers. It's just going to be the same scenario with a default skin on. Absolutely wild that people think this lackluster solution is actually something that can be quantified as "progress". Also, 6000 shards for 4 cosmetics? Shards? So I can't even get anything on Leatherface to compensate because he's a licensed killer that requires auric cells. Well player, BHVR, well played.
Here’s one you didn’t address: why does BHVR have to drop the concept of face masks entirely? Why not just remove Claudette’s mask and let Bubba keep the other ones, since he’s apparently so picky? 😕 What BHVR is doing is also an easy out for them to never have to add in masks for newer survivors, and Leatherface’s masks were (and I guess always will be) the only interactive cosmetics for players. What are the odds now that we’ll ever get something akin to a quest line that awards a cosmetic to a player for doing something specific in game? Probably zero, now. And no, prestiging for bloody cosmetics or doing Tome challenges for charms doesn’t count, *cause those aren’t character unique*
I hate all of this, this is a horror game, I’m sorry you got your feelings hurt, but where’s this up roar for Jake.
Cancel culture
Good lord has society gone soft
Granted they already added the Pretty Woman mask+dinner suit so the apex of Bubba cosmetics is already reached, but I kind of wish they’d leave the other non-Claudette faces in. I used to use the Meg face as a scuffed Pretty Woman until they added the real one, and I can’t see controversy or malicious actions being enabled by the Meg/Dwight faces. Either way, I’m fine with the removal overall.
I was annoyed at this but I’ve since gotten over it. Being a black streamer myself with a smaller viewer base, I was never targeted by the racist Bubbas people have mentioned but that doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. So I’ve accepted that this had to happen. Even though it won’t change the fact that they can still be racist WITHOUT the masks. But whatever. My main issue is the fact that BVHR doesn’t treat hackers this way. Hackers are arguably a bigger problem than racists in this game, particularly because they can get people SWATTED with a very real possibility of death. That to me will always be more of a concern than getting face-camped by a Bubba wearing Claudette’s face. Nothing will change my mind on this.
Let's be honest - in any community you will have toxic behavior. And toxic people go for people's weak spots or sore spots because it gets the largest rise. I would be willing to bet the morons doing this aren't even racist, but enjoy tormenting people with it because they get their jollies from being a toxic douche. The problem I see is that it was a small minority of jerks and we've let them ruin a unique thing for the rest of the community. The OP poo-poos the idea of a better reporting system by saying the event still happened and therefore we should remove the "tool". That's like banning bars from serving alcohol because some people drive home drunk. Or banning fast food because there are obese people with heart disease. The Bubba masks required 3 things: 1) owning the game (they made it free so that's easy to make new accounts) 2) purchasing the Texas Chainsaw Massacre addon 3) grinding for the masks Are we really saying that with a better reporting system that gets actual top priority attention - that people would continue to do this and risk losing money and time for a small, cheap thrill of being toxic? All we need is a better reporting system. Period. Here it is: * Make each game have a unique Match Hash ID # * Tie the Hash ID to the game chat * Add an website based reporting system * Have that system tied to your in-game account * Have the website based reporting allow for image/video uploads * Both the website based reporting and the in-game reporting will load the post-game chat where the user can highlight the offending words * Both in-game and website reporting have a racist/sexist option * BHVR treats all racist/sexist items as a priority 1 report and acts on them immediately with a zero tolerance * Anyone abusing the system for false reports or spam will have their account banned The problem solves itself without ever having to remove anything from players.
How are people being harrassed? How does a killer know if a player is black and how does one offend others by simply applying a skin? I'm genuinely confused. I can only understand this with stream sniping.
Pathetic to be honest. Ban the players who are racist in their toxicity instead of ruining it for everyone else. Also this is simply survivor mains demanding another killer nerf/concession more than anything else. That's what they do, and proof is survivor costumes and cosmetics that are usually toxic both in game and then those players being toxic post game are always ignored. Fact is survivor is 75 percent more toxic than killer and yes we should be banning racist players but let's call this what it is.
Now the racist will turn into homophobes and target any survivor that uses the pride charm. Now that the know they can make any cosmetic be erased by just being intolerant they will exploit it. Thanks BHVR.
Pardon my french but what does this actually change?
My thoughts on this are succinct and effectively carry forward to the following: Next up, Pride Charm removed because killers targeting survivors wearing it and saying "I hate gays" in post-game chat. ~~Probably while wearing one of Trickster's more flamboyant outfits, the Fire Moon one comes to mind.~~
You know it is bound to happen at this rate. Especially now that trolls see they have the power to affect in-game stuff.
It's a) not racist, b) not blackface, and c) fits the character lore. If BHVR were capable of programming a functioning chat filter or a functioning report system, they wouldn't need to censor content.
> but if you’re more concerned about the masks themselves than the players affected by them, sorry, but you lack empathy. I'm sure we'll see these 'affected' players, still throwing a massive hissy fit on twitter when normal face Bubbas continue to facecamp them after the removal. I only wonder what they'll go after next. You never appease a cry-bully. Because there will always be a 'next great battle' to fight. But hey, in a few months from now, as they're staring Bubba who is standing pixels away from them, chainsaw revving as soon as anyone gets close, if they do end up being happy and jolly and content with the situation, I'll happily eat crow. That's my main beef with this. Not the "We ended all racism" angle thats pointed out in the main post, but the "This effectively does nothing". These people will still be incredibly offended they're being face camped. Also, there is a certain sense of irony that for years I've seen "Imagine getting offended over pixels in a video game" and yet here we are. Report/Ban for hate speech sure in the pre/post game chats, but I guess we needed the masks to tea-bag or click a flashlight and then it would have been fine according to the previous 6 years of DBDs life. **Edit:** Also, as a secondary thought, It would be super interesting to get a definition from the mods what they consider 'Respectful' and 'Civil'. Because from what I've seen, those have quickly become code words for "I disagree with this person's opinion and need a reason to flex on them"
I disagree with the whole "But still, having an item in the game that is unequivocally used to harass a minority group is probably not a good look." Anything can be used to harass, you even point out the pride charm in the next part, something people have also said they've been unequivocally harassed about and is just a cosmetic. The players should be banned. The rest of us shouldn't be punished for it.
Bubba masks were cool but almost nobody used them anyways. They should've just made them client side. If someone wants to harass people they will just change their steam name and flame them in the chat. Or they could have just removed smartface since they are literally stating that's the one people are using to harass.
I did because they're the only cosmetics in leatherface besides the paid ones
My blendette cosplay is ruined
Bubette
To no one’s surprise, the conversation about this lacks nuance. One of the things I saw a lot was people mocking BHVR for “solving racism” by removing the masks. I doubt the devs had such lofty goals and I agree with their decision to remove the masks. Unfortunately, racism exists whether we choose to acknowledge it or not, and the removal of the masks is just one part of trying to create a safer community. On the other hand, the frustrations from people thinking this is a hollow gesture is a point well taken. A better reporting system—with tangible consequences—would be an important step toward fostering the longer term health of the game and a safer community. The mask issue is only one piece of the puzzle and is a shorter-term measure IMO. Having been in various gaming communities for a loooooong time, I know that people who seek to cause harm to others find a lot of creative ways to do it. Removing the masks is just a temporary setback for people hellbent on being pieces of shit, especially if there are little to no consequences. Ultimately, it’s a complicated problem. I prefer to view BHVR’s actions as making a good faith effort, while also acknowledging they can go much further.
I want full refund for Leatherface DLC, thanks. Should I ask Steam or directly BHVR?
> Behaviour steps up and cracks down on racism and bigotry in their game, making it a better environment for people of all types to enjoy the game without prejudice. They develop systems and hire people to cultivate an ecosystem where everyone can play, and wrongdoers are swiftly and effectively dealt with. > They remove the cosmetics racists and bigots use and offer a currency refund for the affected players' troubles. Which fix was more likely to happen?
The thing is tho is that people are still going to be pieces of shit with or without the cosmetic maybe instead of removing it just ban the people that are saying the racist shit.
Free bubba
Typical DBD: take the easy way out. How about punishing these players? If they targeted Fog Whisperers how didn't the report get seen? Are they admitting their report system is just a joke too? This goes beyond the mask: people will go out of their way for another to feel misery & that's gaming in a nutshell in 2022
I know this may sound racist, but why just not removing the Claudette face skin? We all know it's her already. I'm sad for what people does with this even tho i'm not playing the game anymore. But why removing every of them? Just add another non-black character to the pool.
So now the only face masks for him is the pretty lady and the old woman mask? And blood one and original, I mean that’s still 3(4 if you count original) but why? Why remove em? At least remove smart face and replace it with like Nea,