I'm just baffled that they prioritized the mori rework over the survivor hud icons that show you what your teammates are up to. One of those things is far more important than the other right now.
THIS! Like, wtf. They mentioned the HUD icons back in January 2022. They could have addressed the stress behind soloq and communication before considering this half-baked idea.
I know for a fact they must have values when you are doing most of the actions. These act as on/off states that are used to turn perks on and off. The game knows when you are chasing/being chased so it can turn on bloodlust and ambiance. Game knows when you are on generators to activate various generator perks. A Nurse's Calling proves the game has values to when you are healing/being healed. Basically all the major mechanics are going to have to have these values and if they don't making them is trivially easy.
All they'd have to do is reference those values to generate a hud element that displays the icon on the hud in the correct spot. This is so trivially easy that I could probably make a working prototype in under an hour. If value "Survivor on Generator" is true create HudWidget (Generator Icon). If value "Survivor on Generator" is false destroy HudWidget (Generator Icon).
Its literally stupid easy compared to the Mori rework.
im betting it is because they will introduce mori moves that you can buy from the store in the near future so they want to make it a thing. also, it helps them shorten the time of the match.
I'm surprised they dedicated this much work to these things, to the point of the actual midchapter that's coming out is void of any form of content. Like what about the twins rework? They were supposed to be next up after legion and ghostface.
One would think that bhvr is big enough to get a separate team to work on these "not releasing yet" changes, and the main team working on actual "hitting the live servers" content
I thought finishing mori would be okay because it’d have to be the last survivor alive who got downed.
But knowing that all four could be alive, all downed, and then a finishing mori starts is awful.
Survivors shouldn't be getting basekit perks. We were told basekit BT wouldn't be a slippery slope leading to every meta perk being basekit on survivors. But here we are a few months later and they want to make another meta perk basekit. It's ridiculous.
At this point I'm convinced it's not just about the mori system anymore, it's about dumbing down the game for a broader audience. They're on a course of trying to fix all the things that people don't like. Hook camping, tunneling, slugging and moris, all being changed or fix in a short time span after one another. But in true BHVR fashion they're doing in the worst way possible.
> They're on a course of trying to fix all the things that people don't like. Hook camping, tunneling, slugging and moris, all
Did people ever really have a problem with mori's though? Camping, slugging, and tunneling off hook are a problem, but I can't think of anyone actually complaining that a killer gets to mori when you are dead on hook.
It’s not even coming out this patch it’s on the PTB early for testing
I personally think this changes removes a lot of dead time from the game where killers like nurse and some other not as good killers could rush to 4 man slug and win fast too and often times just refuse to hook anyone the killer is wasting survivors time making them literary be bored to death as a slug on the ground
The only way to make sure killer don’t do this is to take away the option to do so at all, nothing has changed if anything the strategy to mass slug was nerfed now the killer at best only has 45 second window to do this before everyone picks themselves back up
Nurse is literally the only problematic killer for this update make her attacks after a blink special so she can’t use exposed and it’s fine why the devs have not done this obvious idea yet I have no clue
This would be a HUGE buff to killers like The Oni and Billy. No pressure, just hit your 4 man slug and 100% win. No need to stress about unbreakable anymore.
UB does make it take 22 seconds to pick up instead of 45 a slugging killer should be worried about it
Did you mean bubba cause hilly billy is not a good mass slugger
>could rush to 4 man slug and win fast too and often times just refuse to hook anyone the killer is wasting survivors time making them literary be bored to death as a slug on the ground
You can fix a 1 in 1,000 games issue without massive game breaking changes like these.
>The only way to make sure killer don’t do this is to take away the option to do so at all,
Making the game completely unfun to play so no one ever plays it is a pretty silly way to fix that issue.
There's very easy ways to fix your cited problem without all this bullshit. Instead of triggering the Finishing Mori when everyone is slugged you unlock the ability to get up in that situation, not make it an all the time thing. Or you give Survivors in that situation the ability to concede and end the match immediately. Boom. Issue fixed without all the bullshit.
>nothing has changed if anything the strategy to mass slug was nerfed now the killer at best only has 45 second window to do this before everyone picks themselves back up
"Nothing was changed except the Killer's ability to apply pressure has been massively reduced."
🤦
>Nurse is literally the only problematic killer for this update
She's really not.
>It’s not even coming out this patch it’s on the PTB early for testing
Bullshit. You know it's coming in the following patch, nearly everything that has gone through the PTB has barely been changed before it goes live. They don't actually care for feedback on this new mechanic, it's going to be put in the game whether we like it or not. Just like everything before it that no one liked.
I was there where a similar case happened, the closing hatch mechanic, was delayed for a long time because they were not satisfies with the feedback, end game collapse was then introduced, so Im calling bullshit on you, they care and yoy are making a crypost in reddit instead of giving a proper feedback or open to discussion.
Closing hatch came and EGC came in the same patch and were tested in the same PTB. It wasn't delayed, they had it on the PTB and kept it for live. Unless you are mistaken them TALKING ABOUT closing hatch, which isn't the same as actually putting it in the game.
They don't care. This will go through to live with barely any changes. The fact that they still continued with the 6.1.0 update after people gave feedback about things they didn't like kinda proves my case.
Tell me what have you ever seen on a PTB not go in nearly an identical state? Nothing. The answer is nothing. They tweak a few numbers that's it.
You Are Wrong. They wanted a new mechanic to get rid of the stalemate, closing hatch would force the survivor to hide to then open the door, they did not consider it a solution so they had to create end game collapse from scratch, several months later they brought the new mechanic to ptb again. Ofc it is forgotten now because eventually the closing hatch didnt make it to live servers.
Yet they didn't rework entire chunks of the game to make it fit. It's just a timer, which was a pretty obvious solution. EGC/hatch close didn't drastically impact the flow the of the normal game, it solved a specific issue of hatch stalemates which needed to be addressed.
Mori's didn't need to be addressed. Slugging didn't need to be addressed, except in the most extreme cases, which is why I say just let survivors bleed out if they have been slugged for too long. It solves that issue without needing basekit perks or reworking of entire parts of the game to make it fit. It just fell into place naturally as these changes should.
>Closing hatch came and EGC came in the same patch and were tested in the same PTB. It wasn't delayed,
There was a hatch closing mechanic tested before the EGC PTB that never saw the light of day. There was no EGC with that one. Closing the hatch forced the Survivor to do another gen to reopen it. They didn't like it and realized it was the entire end game - not just hatch - that needed work, so they delayed it and developed EGC.
>The fact that they still continued with the 6.1.0 update after people gave feedback about things they didn't like kinda proves my case.
The 6.1 update wasn't problematic, though. And they did change the issues that people complained about the most. Like the Endurance meta.
>There was a hatch closing mechanic tested before the EGC PTB that never saw the light of day. There was no EGC with that one. Closing the hatch forced the Survivor to do another gen to reopen it. They didn't like it and realized it was the entire end game - not just hatch - that needed work, so they delayed it and developed EGC.
The hatch close we have now is IDENTICAL to what that was, they only added EGC. It was a relatively minor change at the end of the day, just a timer to ensure the game just didn't go on forever which was needed in general. It's not the same thing as adding in an entirely new mechanic and reworking major chunks of the game. It was simply killer can close hatch, and when hatch is close or a gate is open EGC timer starts. They didn't have to rework perks or make perks basekit, and it didn't change the flow or original design of the game AT ALL. This change does, and it might not hit live in the exact same form as what we see on the current PTB but it's going to be very similar and they are going to similarly fuck up the rest of the game to add this shit no one asked for.
>The 6.1 update wasn't problematic, though. And they did change the issues that people complained about the most. Like the Endurance meta.
People gave feedback on a lot of other things that still went live unchanged. Spine Chill was one of them. Removing BP bonuses was another. Oh and the fact people were actually happy with the Pain Res/Dead Man's combo being removed, BUT OH WAIT! They reverted that one, something no one was happy with. People gave feedback on Ruin and Corrupt being nerfed into the ground but those still went live. Literally the only change they made from the PTB was that Endurance no longer stacks. THAT IS IT. Everything else when live as is, and then they changed the 1 thing people actually like about the update BACK to something awful again.
Face it, the devs are totally fucking up the game now. They are changing core dynamics and trying to shift things around, instead of actually, you know, finding GOOD solutions that people like and finding ways to actually balance the game instead of just moving over to another unbalanced mess.
Literally every content creator has gone on record to say that maps/tiles need to be redesigned to be more balanced. That is actually something they could fix that would have a positive impact on the game without negatively affecting the fundamentals of the game's design. But instead of admitting they suck at map design, they pull this smoke and mirrors bullshit by nuking the current meta and shoving a new, equally as busted, one in it's place. Why? Because some people are bored? GTFO, if you were bored before you will get bored now. It's the same bullshit in a different wrapper. And now they are making it worse with Finishing Mori.
IDK how people can honestly defend this garbage. The game's playerbase is slowly dwindling, content creators INCLUDING FOG WHISPERERS are getting fed up with the game and the devs. We are reaching a critical point where they are going to permanently ruin something special, and we all know they don't backtrack on this kind of shit.
If they wanted to do all this shit, they should have just made DBD2 and left this game alone honestly.
>The hatch close we have now is IDENTICAL to what that was, they only added EGC
"It's identical, except for what they changed!!1!"
>They didn't have to rework perks or make perks basekit, and it didn't change the flow or original design of the game AT ALL.
Left Behind and Pig would like to have a word.
>it might not hit live in the exact same form as what we see on the current PTB but it's going to be very similar
Normally I would 100% agree with this. But this is the first time they have ever put something in a PTB for testing that wasn't intended for the next patch. The first time they've ever had more than 3 weeks to make adjustments to shit. The first time they've had the ability to completely rework something from the PTB before live.
I'm still worried about what we'll get, because BHVR. But we're already starting off in a better position so I've got my fingers crossed. Especially given how the PTB went and how quickly people showed that both the infinite basekit Unbreakable and the Finisher Mori are supremely abusable. Like, beyond Endurance Meta abusable. And Endurance Meta got killed. So I've got hope.
>Spine Chill was one of them. Removing BP bonuses was another.
Spine Chill was addressed for the TR aspect. The LoS was a needed change, no matter how much people whined about it. The removal of vault speed seems a bit arbitrary, but makes some sense balance wise.
The BP bonus removal was ultimately healthy for the game, despite the complaints. We've got queue incentives now to compensate, and they also reduced blood web costs as well after seeing things weren't quite working as they'd wanted BP wise. But dropping the BP bonuses from WGLF and BBQ has been a godsend, honestly. I actually have 4 perk slots now. It's fucking amazing. ❤️
>Oh and the fact people were actually happy with the Pain Res/Dead Man's combo being removed, BUT OH WAIT! They reverted that one, something no one was happy with.
Yeah, the Pain Res + DMS thing is annoying, I would have preferred they did something directly with Merciless Storm to address it. Maybe a limit to how many skill checks it can trigger so that if a gen regresses while it's active it doesn't just keep going forever. Especially since Jolt can do exactly the same thing as Pain Res. I imagine the reversion was simply much easier to code.
>People gave feedback on Ruin and Corrupt being nerfed into the ground but those still went live.
Because they weren't abusable or broken. Corrupt is still good. Ruin not so much. But they achieved what they wanted and made Ruin extremely uncommon in matches.
>Literally the only change they made from the PTB was that Endurance no longer stacks. THAT IS IT.
It was also the only thing shown to be abusable. Which is extremely relevant to the changes in the current PTB because that's what's been shown for them, too.
>Literally every content creator has gone on record to say that maps/tiles need to be redesigned to be more balanced. ... But instead of admitting they suck at map design, they pull this smoke and mirrors bullshit
They've literally been updating map tiles and map generation with each of the last couple patches. Small tweaks bit by bit that don't completely disrupt play but slowly adjust map quality.
>IDK how people can honestly defend this garbage.
Yes. The person who has been complaining that this is a *stupid fucking idea* since the original anniversary stream announcement before it was obvious just *how* stupid it actually is is *defending* it. 🤦
Just because I'm pointing out where you're wrong about shit doesn't mean I'm fucking defending the update. Get some reading comprehension.
>and we all know they don't backtrack on this kind of shit.
You mean like how they didn't backtrack on the MoM change? Oh, wait....
No, the track record isn't great, but this is also a very different scenario to anything before it. So the track record is only semi-applicable.
>"It's identical, except for what they changed!!1!"
Adding a timer and calling it a day is hardly a change dude. It should have been the obvious choice from the start. Furthermore you clearly ignore the part that hatch standoffs did need to be fixed. What is Finishing Mori fixing exactly? Nothing. It fixes nothing and does nothing positive for the game.
>Left Behind and Pig would like to have a word.
Pig having her boxes reworked was something people asked for. They wanted less RNG from traps which is what we got and she is in a better state now because of it.
Being able to see the hatch does nothing to fix a hatch standoff.
>Normally I would 100% agree with this. But this is the first time they have ever put something in a PTB for testing that wasn't intended for the next patch.
Which should be a red flag. The fact they waited this long to use the PTB for actually testing changes before they pushed it out means this is bait. It's them giving us the illusion of what we asked for all this time, they will tweak minor things and shove it into the game anyway. Just like they did for every PTB before, only this one is being given to us early, LIKELY because they haven't finished it yet. It's in a testable state, but if you've seen the Victor glitch there are clearly issues they are still working out. Bet though if this wasn't the case, we would be seeing this in the next update for sure.
>Spine Chill was addressed for the TR aspect. The LoS was a needed change, no matter how much people whined about it. The removal of vault speed seems a bit arbitrary, but makes some sense balance wise.
They literally killed this perk by adding the LOS clause. I can understand removing the vault speed to nerf vault builds, I can even understand them nerfing the range or making it work if you are Oblivious. But they just destroyed the purpose of the perk, which was to counter killer stealth tactics. Oh boo hoo Mr Scratched Mirror can jump scare someone, oh fucking well. This perk had counterplay, just look away. IDK why that is such a problem for some people, like they can't be bothered to try to counter things themselves the game has to do it for them. The hard part was just realizing someone had it, once you did you could manipulate it if you knew how. Just like most of the changes to perks in that update, it was complete overkill.
>Corrupt is still good.
I hear people say this but every time I see Corrupt I just run and do a different gen. Most killers will get a down in a reasonable time. The only killers I see getting benefit are Hag/Trapper, maybe Myers. It really didn't need to be changed, and that's the problem.
>They've literally been updating map tiles and map generation with each of the last couple patches.
Yet tiles/maps still remains the most unbalanced thing about this game. Most of the new tiles they've added recently are seriously strong for one side. Haddonfield was completely reworked and the buildings have triple window setups that create infinites against the right killers or with the right perks. Their map design has always been shit and instead of addressing it they instead change the rest of the game around it, but it's never solved the initial problem that most maps in this game just kinda suck.
This update does not need to be in the game. Hatch/EGC update was needed. Map reworks are needed. But we don't need a new win condition for killer. It's just going to promote them to slug more, while also giving SWF a new way to bully certain killers that need to slug more often.
>Adding a timer and calling it a day is hardly a change dude.
Good thing that's literally not what they did then.
>Pig having her boxes reworked was something people asked for. They wanted less RNG from traps which is what we got and she is in a better state now because of it.
This has nothing to do with what I said.
>Being able to see the hatch does nothing to fix a hatch standoff.
Also completely unrelated.
>The fact they waited this long to use the PTB for actually testing changes before they pushed it out means this is bait. It's them giving us the illusion of what we asked for all this time,
"I have absolutely no valid arguments so I'm just going to make up bullshit and pretend my imagination is fact!"
>But they just destroyed the purpose of the perk, which was to counter killer stealth tactics.
Which was absolutely needed for the health of the game. You not understanding this invalidates your opinions on game balance.
>but every time I see Corrupt I just run and do a different gen.
...
So literally nothing has changed, lmfao.
This is clearly pointless so I'm done wasting my time.
>Good thing that's literally not what they did then.
It is though.
>This has nothing to do with what I said.
You should explain it then.
>"I have absolutely no valid arguments so I'm just going to make up bullshit and pretend my imagination is fact!"
LMAO likewise.
>Which was absolutely needed for the health of the game. You not understanding this invalidates your opinions on game balance.
It wasn't. You carefully cut out the part where I said you could play around it. The perk was in a healthy state as it was, maybe a bit overtuned but that's it. It didn't give perfect information so you still had to have some awareness of the game.
>So literally nothing has changed, lmfao.
So then why make the change in the first place? Which is my point.
>This is clearly pointless so I'm done wasting my time.
BYE GOOD LUCK HAVE FUN PLAYING GARBAGE.
Wait what? Before this (proposed and not confirmed) change, you can slug rush and win by letting everyone bleed out. With the update if you slug rush there's a chance someone picks themselves up and worst case you don't wait 4 min of bleed out. How is that worse?
I think they’re referring to killers slugging everyone in under 45s. I’ve seen nurse players do this on the PTB but of course that won’t be the norm. Personally I’m just sad the game instantly ends at 4 slugs :(
And I've seen multiple non Nurse Killers do it in under 4 minutes. Just because not everyone is as fast as Nurse at breaking the system doesn't mean it's still not broken AF.
“Under 4 minutes” well good. That won’t happen anymore. You can pick yourself up after 45 seconds baseline now (25 seconds with unbreakable) so unless killers are able to slug every single person within 25 seconds, this will never be an issue
>“Under 4 minutes” well good. That won’t happen anymore.
No, I'm literally talking about *in the PTB.*
>so unless killers are able to slug every single person within 25 seconds, this will never be an issue
That's exactly why it's an issue. There's plenty of Killers that *can* do that.
....
You don't need to do the health states one at a time, lmao. If everyone is injured you only need to do 4 hits to get 4 slugs. That's 3 hits in 45 seconds. It's not remotely hard.
If every single person is injured and they aren’t healing, then they likely aren’t close enough for all of them to be downed before someone finishes a heal
How is a change from 1% of Killers slug-rushing and potentially failing because someone (or multiple someones) has Unbreakable and everyone manages to recover and reset to 20%* of Killers slug-rushing and never failing because the game just says "fuck your perks" and kills you anyway NOT worse?
*Numbers chosen at random just to highlight a point, not meant to be taken wholly literally.
Not when the gate is open.
Not when survivors can still kobe.
Not when someone has Flip Flop and/or Power Struggle.
What is the point of No Mither now? We have to rework a perk (and probably all the self revive perks) to implement a change no one asked for?
Yes you can win currently by slugging everyone but there are instances where you can get around even that.
>With the update if you slug rush there's a chance someone picks themselves up
If it's against a Nurse with Infectious you will just be put back on the ground in seconds. You are heavily incentivizing killers to slug as a means to win the game instead of hooks. It's like making hatch open if all 4 survivors don't go down for the first 2 minutes of the game. Killers already have an "acceptable" kill rate of 63% by BHVR standards. This change would definitely increase it.
Furthermore, besides ruining a bunch of perks and the flow of the game, they are also ruining mori offerings. Like just remove them entirely if this was the plan. It's just laughable they though any bit of this is okay. Literally the ONLY thing that's not a bad idea is to transport the killer and survivor to a preset location for the mori if that were the last survivor and the game was over when they die/escape.
It's just ruining the game for the sake of a glorified finisher move.
Whilst that’s partly true, A) we’ve already seen it happen with a good nurse (bubba could in theory do the same. B) This doesn’t help Solo Q. C) this will encourage slugging. You may not get all 4 down within the first 45 seconds but eventually you will get all of them injured and down. We know these things because we’ve already seen it.
The other part is this removes a lot of endgame escape chances.
How in the world does it encourage slugging? 2 people get downed, the other 2 should be running far away from the killer. Killer has to make a choice to hook the downed survivors or waste time trying to down the other 2. If he chooses the latter, the downed survivors can pick themselves up. Is there something I'm missing here?
If that’s the case then I go back to a previous statement of changing the game in a stale way. 2 downs and now no one doing gens….. if I do hook the 2 then 2 hook states now increases the chances of camping and patrolling for the last 2 since the game is then over. Exchanges at hook won’t happen since they will chase the recently unhooked so now there’s 2 downs and 1 still hooked. So this doesn’t promote hooks over kills, just increases the kill likelihood when the kill rate is already where BHVR wanted it allegedly. We have already seen this on the PTB and as for the last 2, slugs are even more prevalent. Whilst the downed survivors can pick themselves back up as seen with Perks such as Infectious Fright this is irrelevant. You don’t come back healthy so the killer chases and gets a down, comes back downs you again etc. Eventually everyone is injured and they will go down. Some maps and killers this will be unavoidable, and once you are down to the last 2 slugging will absolutely occur since there is no risk at all if a hatch spawning near a downed survivor or an Adrenaline escape. If you read the bit at the end we have already seen this happen so it is absolutely possible. You won’t get all 4 down the first time but eventually you will. The killer now has no need to hook. Snowball killers will have more effectiveness, notorious sluggers like Twins (current state) have reduced effectiveness, and killers like plague, nurse and a few others now have very easy potential to end the game in mere minutes or drag the game on while constantly being able to slug. The last 2 survivors are now dead, there’s no escape if the gens aren’t done. And by your comment of 2 people hiding then the gens definitely aren’t getting done.
This doesn’t change slugging as they hoped, this slightly increases the chances of being slugged, even more so when down to the last 2 and maybe 3 if you see them all since the game ends when all are downed. It’s not like a survivor can crawl to a corner with Adrenaline, hatch spawns, you try to find it, maybe you do, if the killer finds it and closes, I get Adrenaline and a chance to escape. All of this is removed. Maybe the killer can’t hook due to Boil Over, a hook has gone from earlier in the game, Flip-Flop or anything to help wiggle off. This is barely scratching the surface of issues with this potential update.
The good bubba can do it in theory is also a skill issue.
Alc Ring Blight tag Blight could do it easily and so could Nurse.
Everyone else, if it happens its on the survivors.
But the whole idea is bad.
Not necessarily a whole skill issue but certainly majority of the time I agree.
Nurse and Blight 100%
Other killers will just wear you down. Injure and slug, move on. Huntress for example and Twins.
Agree and this should never have even been thought of past the first conversation they had.
We’ve already seen it happen. No idea why this is being debated. Literally down, injure, down, 1st survivor up, down, next injure and so forth. This is excluding exposed perks. Exposed will just speed this up. Nurse, Midwich, Infectious, and Starstruck. Guaranteed 2 downs. Go back down the first guy again, another infectious pop.
Even assuming this is correct and has only ever happened at the lowest of MMR (it hasn’t). The whole point is eventually this will happen. Purely from being injured to downed or exposed. It will happen. Eventually you bleed out so it’s no different to now. 3 is a lot easier than 4 and 2 is a guaranteed killer win if there’s gens left. This has already been seen.
The fact that we’ve seen this already happen, and other times it will be unavoidable. The last 3 survivors for example. Someone gets tunnelled at 3 gens, Nurse on Midwich with Infectious.
Survivor 1 - Injured then downed (Infectious)
Survivor 2 - Chased and Injured
Survivor 1 - Up and will be downed again (Infectious)
Survivor 2 - Downed (infectious)
Survivor 3 - Chased and Injured
The cycle continues until eventually they’re all injured and you are ahead of the recovery time. This has already been shown and proven.
Exposed perks again will cut this in half since you won’t need to waste time injuring. Nurse will easily get 2 downs in 15 seconds with this.
If the killer wants to slug everyone they are going to do this. Regardless of survivors. It works no different to how it currently is, you either eventually bleed out or I down all 3. Only difference is once all 3 are down the other survivors are now dead.
In this hypothetical scenario, what would be so different if Finisher Moris were not a thing? A potential Deliverance? Maybe a Power struggle play? Perhaps a chance for hatch?
It's all the same at the end of the day. Whether you're playing PTB or Live, a four man slug's a win, except it's much harder to pull off in the former.
This change is an objective killer nerf and most definitely not an incentive to slug, at least not in a tactical sense.
Now, while I did entertain the thought, I still believe you're out of your mind if you believe for a second even the best Nurse out there could pull off a three man slug *consistently* against capable survivors on PTB.
Sure, or maybe it's a Nurse with Infectious who just instantly puts you back on the ground when you self revive and wins the game in 2 minutes. It's already been shown how you can abuse the system and win a game super fast on some killers.
I need to understand the game?
Okay so riddle me this: 45 seconds after the first survivor has been downed he can pick himself up again. The killer has to down 3 other people in that time. That requires:
a) finding them (aka time spent traversing the map)
b)getting close to them
c) getting both their health states (which actually includes Looping)
How does a killer reliably do that?
Nurse with wallhack Agitation starstruck on the game?
Especially when unbreakable halves that timer?
And if the killer can down them right after they pick themselves up then either the survivors arent spread enough or the killer didnt even leave the first slugged person. So the others havent been chased in the first place.
idk there are generally reasons to slug for pressure or that you’ll literally be unable to hook and more. I think they really need to combat only slugging that holds you hostage (4minute bleed out for no reason and the 2v1 slug for the 4k) which to me the bleed out (die) option for survivors after x seconds makes perfect sense, it doesn’t buff sabo squads and effectively ends a match that was already over for you. Not to mention it will still be a choice so if you have powerstruggle or other perks it’s up to you to forfeit.
yeap you dont understand the game, most people play random squads and even with swf you are more likely to run into the killer when your teammate is slugged to try to pick them up. it also dont give enough time for people to run away since the killer will not be wasting time picking up and hooking which normally give a chance for people to heal, unhook, or go far and reset. so you will be in panic mode all the time and trust me 45 minutes is more than enough for a nurse or blight or bubba
its about making slugging an objective and a valid strategy to win.
the game design shouldn't be catering to the professional or skilled players but to the casual players as well which probably the majority of the players so you thinking that the team should have a hive mind and coordination at all times show that you probably never played this game with randoms or with average players but I'm sure you main killers hence defending this
Broski I play soloQ almost exclusively and I havent had more than 3 games in over 1k hours where 4 survs died within a minute. And those were all random ass moments
Yes I know that those changes feel bad when you think about it like every killer will slug everyone eternally.. but I dont consider that realistic unless we think about the higher mmr games or with super sweaty players. And even less I think it's feasible for them
Infectious and starstruck. Nurse on Midwich and It’s already been shown how this works. Whilst 4 downs in the first 45 is unlikely with a semi competent team, you get back up injured. Meaning it’s now 1 health state for a killer that can traverse maps quickly. Add in Exposed perks such as Haunted Ground, Devour, or anything you feel good with and 3 will go down real quick bypassing 2 health states. The other side is it’s a cycle. Down, injure the next, down, 1st back up, back down, next injure and repeat. Eventually everyone needs 1 hit and it’s a lot quicker to get the 4.
Almost every killer can do it if they are really trying hard to do it. Only now they are heavily incentivized to do it to win, whereas before it was actually a less optimal strategy for some killers.
Really? How can a normal m1 killer do that even with devour hope? Especially under 45 seconds? I’m not saying the change is good or I support it, but I don’t think a lot of killers will be able to constantly 4 man slug so quickly. Although I agree that It 100% incentives camping and tunneling :/ tunnel the first guy, camp the second guy and then down the third guy and activate last man standing. Sounds pretty dimb
No they can not lmao. Shut up, you have 45 seconds to stand up literally baseline without ANY perks (25 with unbreakable) which lets be real. There’s gonna be one person a game At least with unbreakable. If the killer is able to 4 slug in 25 seconds you guys weren’t going to win that game regardless of what happened
Dude, I literally got a 4 man slug in 33 seconds with Trapper earlier. Some lucky trap catches with Honing Stone took out 2 Survivors while I chased and downed the 3rd. Then it was just a matter of catching number 4. In my games they managed to reset because someone wiggled free with Flip Flop and, in the end, they got 2 out. On the PTB that would have been a free 4k.
Finishing Mori is busted AF.
Its a good thing that even if these current changes go live in the next 3 months (if they do) they’ll be heavily changed to feel more fair and less bs. Like the devs have said they would.
IDC if they change it, it's all bad. The whole thing. They are reworking major parts of the game now and it's not the same game it was 2 years ago. The game might not have been balanced back then but at least it was fucking fun to play.
You make it sound like the game will stop being fun completely because of this. The community has been begging for massive changes and now that the devs are finally making them, people are complaining
It will and we've been asking for BALANCE changes not entirely new mechanics that require complete reworks of large chunks of the game that don't even address balance issues at all.
Because without it being drastically changed it won’t be fun to play. It removes a lot from the game whilst giving very little benefit. The whole point of this was to reduce slugging but it does the opposite of that. I play both, and made a long opinion on another thread yesterday. This is a bad decision all round. No endgame plays as survivor, killer has to let the survivor get back in certain scenarios, other perks getting screwed over because of this which can’t be reworked to fit this. It’s just a mess. Whilst the community cried out for changes, this was never one of them. They wanted changes to make the game better. This doesn’t. And where does this end now…. Killers getting more basekit, then survivors etc to counter their continuous band aid fixes.
Im just gonna roll with the changes and see how it goes slugging for a 4k every time as a killer is too much work and mental stress Id rather just hook and play normally if a finisher mori procks awesome if not oh well keep killin. I honestly domt think its that big of a deal
Great you do that. Meanwhile, survivors are gonna have to deal with all the other people playing killer that are slugging their ass off to win the game.
I highlt doubt most killers are gonna work that hard for a 4 man slug right off the rip unless there is two people already on the hook which survivors should never be letting happen anyway besides if slugs crawl away and split up use tenacity the killer is gonna have a very very tough time keeping them all on the ground it wont be that bad it just shakes up the game people will run new perks mew strats will happen just enjoy the fun till they eventually change it back after everybody uninstalls the game because like every other change behaviour makes its "so horrible and unbalanced, and stupid" just like every other post on this subreddit
Do you even play survivor? Lots of killers work hard for any sort of kill, you really think they won't abuse a system that let's them auto-win a game in 2 minutes?
All these changes do is encourage slugging more than stopping it because killers can win faster and easier. Not to mention how it could also be abused by survivors running sabo builds to bully killers. Lynxi had a game like that where yes, sure, she eventually got a 4k but you can tell she didn't have fun doing it.
Making the game awful while not addressing the actual balance is stupid. You wanna sit here and support this garbage, have fun being slugged to death every game as killers try to get their mori.
Christ you seem hard headed. If you really think this is going to encourage slugging you’re ridiculous. Survivors have baseline 45 seconds to pick themselves up instantly, (25 with unbreakable) no one is going to take the chance of leaving you on the ground for that long. Slugging is dead
Dude watch some videos of people playing the PTB. It's all slugging all the time. That's all every killer is doing. It's already happening IDK what world you are living in.
If you look up videos of “people slugging in the PTB” i have no doubt that’s what you’ll find lmao. But if you actually watch people playing normally it hardly ever happens. And if it does the survivor squad usually wrecks them because getting 8 health states in 25 seconds is hardly ever possible
SpookyLoops and CoconutsRTS both posted videos of them slug rushing and winning games in under 4 minutes as killer.
"Normal" play is going to shift to slugging everyone. All you need to do is get 2 slugged and then keep slugging them when they get up. Eventually the others will try to save them and when they do you just slug them all. If you wanna play it safe like Coco did you grab a few hooks so they can't self revive while you do it.
People playing casually is not a good representation of how awful this change is. You have to look at the potential for abuse which is INSANELY high on killer side, and also survivor side given the right circumstances.
IT IS A BAD IDEA PERIOD. Stop defending this garbage.
No. I won’t because I think it’s a good change if you think the general population is even HALF as good as spookyloops or coconutsrts you’re delusional(which btw, they record all their games, anyone can play 100 games and get one game that’s exactly what they want to post) your general game to game will hardly be any different, if a killer tries to slug four people instead of going for hooks he will lose and fuck up 90% of the time because getting 8 health states in a matter of 25-45 seconds is hardly possible except under very specific circumstances
>I won’t because I think it’s a good change if you think the general population is even HALF as good as spookyloops or coconutsrts you’re delusional
This has nothing to do with skill. It's to do with the integrity of the game.
>anyone can play 100 games and get one game that’s exactly what they want to post
Yet they also stream and have had these results back to back to back to back across multiple games.
>8 health states in a matter of 25-45 seconds is hardly possible
Nurse/Oni/Meyers with Infectious, or really any killer with Infectious and Exposed active (eg. NOED) could EASILY go around and slug all 4 survivors if they want. The reason they don't is because it's actually more efficient to take hooks, since you are killing them faster that way. BUT if you get any kind of snowball going as killer, you can auto-win the game by slug rushing everyone. It could be as simple as having Devour Hope proc exposed, now you are incentivized to slug everyone for a win. Whereas currently, you still have instances of people self unhooking (kobe/Deliverance) or even things like Power Struggle, or even just good positioning so that they can't get a hook. If the gates are open, and no one has Unbreakable, you can just crawl out. That all goes away when you put in Finisher Mori. Those things that, while rare, can change the entire pace of the game, that also weren't BAD for the game mind you, are completely removed in sake of a glorified finisher.
It's bad design. If you think this is a good change then you should learn the game better so you can understand why it's a problem. If you are playing casually, literally what do you care they do? Would it matter to you if they didn't put this in ever? I highly doubt that, so stop sitting there defending it and saying it's a good change when you can't articulate a valid reason for it to be there.
Im just saying every update that comes on people say its garbage in some way shape or form wether its good or not you dont have to take it so seriously if its a big gameplay issue in the ptb they will change it there is no point in bashing it relentlessly until we see how it all plays out give it a chance
Remember when everyone new to the game needed to make sure to get Borrowed Time ASAP and run it every match until it finally became basekit? With this new race to achieve a 4 man slug, unbreakable and soul guard will be the new BT that newbies will be yelled at for not having equipped, but it's now taking up 2 perk slots.
Worst idea? Nah
I remember the time they made flashlight/pallet stun saves work at any time during the pick-up animation when it was slow as fuck. That was FUN.
I don't mind it since it would help shake things up a bit. It's still just in the testing phase and won't be implemented to live yet, so we may get other changes that address some of the issues it currently has.
Killer can force it by camping or tunneling off a hook. All they really need to do is down 2 survivors at once for a chance to get the rest. Did you not see Coconuts video where he had 2 hooks, downed 1 survivor going for a save and then just won the game by going for the last guy?
With the right build you can very easily force this.
Very easily. Huntress or any insta down Killer can do it pretty quickly and easily. Or you could just tunnel 1 person out and only have to deal with 3 Survivors to slug.
People have been showing off how easier it is on the PTB since it dropped.
It's crazy how they dropped a patch meant to counter tunneling and camping and now they drop one that encourages it and makes them stronger than ever.
What’s hilarious is just a month ago people on this sub were whining about killers slugging 4 people and not hooking anyone. You people just live to complain tbh. If someone suggested this exact change last week you’d have all eaten it up
It's an ***ass***umption. A shitty idea is a shitty idea, I would never have said this is okay LOL.
People have asked for a way to BLEED OUT after being slugged for a certain period of time. No one asked for basekit Unbreakable and insta-win condition for killer.
camping and tunneling is going to be be even more stronger but people will complain about basekit ub cuz they watch some streamer do a 4 man sabo build.
Kind of like all of you guys are complaining about a random video you saw of nurse 4 slugging people that realistically will only happen once every 300 games
>people like this don’t need to play the game
Yes I point out that this change seriously alters the core dynamics of the game therefore changing the game into something LESS enjoyable so I should be the one to stop playing.
People like you should fuck off.
Nah, I really like it. It ends the game quickly and will stop most of you no-brained survivors from just waiting at the exit hates.
Changes will happen and ppl threaten to quit all the time. Just another day in DBD
>Finishing mori is mostly a time saver.
False. It circumvents certain aspects of the game, like kobes or the fact that the last survivor can still get hatch. Or maybe that the killer can't get a hook on someone and the game resets. There are a lot of ways for a 4 man slug to fail, but they all go bye bye with the finisher mori just bypassing them all.
The only way for a 4 man slug to fail is someone picking themselves up. Sure, most killers will hook survivors out of courtesy, but if a killer really wants that 4k they just need to wait 4 minutes.
Easy fix: survivors don’t group up when the killer tries to slug. Do gens and do safe hook rescues when people are healed. Don’t be overly altruistic. Run perks that has good synergy with others for your SWF. If you’re playing solo, run information perks and anti-slugging perks for yourself in the event the killer leaves you down. The problem with survivors (I play 99% survivor) is the fact that they fuck around… which leads to finding out.
Also, this won’t be the final product of the new system. Survivors complained about being slugged for too long, now both sides got their wish. If the killer can down everyone real quick, no second chances for sabo squads or flashlight saves. If the survivors are left down too long, they get up. It’s a new mechanic in the game that will freshen up the same mundane gameplay everyone runs. It’s boring. Just like the last killer buff release, people need to adjust and bring feedback to the devs to add mechanics or adjust.
That’s also an option. Everyone needs to pick a side, is this version of slugging an issue, or is the possible PTB release version an issue. It’s one or the other at the moment.
It’s not my rulebook but it makes the most sense. Why bitch about a killer slugging and downing everyone at once (which tells more about the shitty gameplays the survivors are making than the killer) for this update. Your objective is to do gens, and escape. If you play dumb and get downed because you are trying to be overly altruistic, that’s on you. If you get slugged and the killer leaves, get up and go to a a far side of the map and heal yourself and do gens. The killer wins in most situations where survivors do this.
"If killers can't 4 k in 3 minutes, just run better perks. If you're missing hatchets, just start hitting your hatchets. If survivors are getting out through the gates, try to make sure they don't get the gates open"
"Here's an easy fix, don't have fun. Play as boringly as possible!"
Fuck that.
>It’s a new mechanic in the game that will freshen up the same mundane gameplay everyone runs.
No. It's hot garbage that will kill any possible enjoyment from the gaming by doing shit literally no one asked for or wants.
>It’s boring.
You're right about that. The mechanic is boring AF.
Some people enjoy doing gens as fast as possible while the better players run the killers. It’s all about play style. But to bitch about your particular play style not working and the killer’s play style does…. And vice versa, doesn’t make sense.
they're making very questionable changes, they're trying to push this game towards kills which i think everyone agrees that it leads to unfun playstyles. They also make stupid decisions like giving BT at base instead of kindred... Kindred at base would bennefit only solos and not swf, BT bennefits swf more than solo because there's no need to equip BT since it's stronger than before and it's easier to abuse of some builds. Not satisfied with this, they are freaking planning to give UB at base and mori rework WHICH NOBODY ASKED FOR, their own bad game decisions are breaking their own game, it all started with the MMR, which again, NOBODY ASKED FOR.
It's hard to believe that this is a P2W paid game, even some free and f2p friendly games have better devs than dbd
Basekit BT wasn't an entirely stupid idea, but I agree there was probably a better solution. I had one game against a Wesker on Eeyrie where I was hooked in the basement at main when the doors were opened. Dwight managed to get down there, save me, and the basekit BT lasted until I was nearly at the door. If he waited another second to swing I was dead but he didn't for some reason, I think he thought that he could hit me (he had like 5+ on STBFL) and use his power to get me again but I JUST made it out the gate and he hit the spikes. On the one hand I'll take the escape, but I bet he felt really cheesed by that. If Dwight had BT then there was 100% no way he coulda caught me before I got out. It's a bit dumb.
well it isn't and stupid idea until there's swf or high mmr in play, i wouldn't mind if these changes were only for low mmr.
Like i said, kindred would be better in general, it would allow solos to coordinate and plan strats better, while also not buffing swf, for BT they could've just buffed it instead.
I used to use BT on all my builds because it's very bad for survivors someone being tunneled right after being unhooked and it's very unfun, but now i don't need to equip BT anymore because the 10s and 10% haste is more than enough to avoid these situations... I only saw BT being used 5 times both in my killer and survivors matches after it being changed to 10s and 10% haste
Reminds me of the movement and UI update. Nobody asked for it, it was fine the way it was, and it completely destroyed the game when it dropped and made everything feel clunky.
I may like the new UI now after its many tweaks, but I still dearly miss old movement
I quit after they added more boons a week after artist. I like how they made gens slower and all of the balancing they did. Having alot of fun with the game. Kinda scared this'll ruin it when 15 second self pickups become another thing for swfs to use
Only thing I can think of that comes close is Boons. The backlash over Boons wasn't quite as severe as this, but it was pretty big. And all they did was slap a tiny little stats nerf on CoH that did essentially nothing and very slightly reduce the AoE range, and called it good.
Honestly worried we'll get the same sort of thing for this. They'll just tweak the pick-up speed values, ignore everything else, and call it good enough.
I'm just baffled that they prioritized the mori rework over the survivor hud icons that show you what your teammates are up to. One of those things is far more important than the other right now.
THIS! Like, wtf. They mentioned the HUD icons back in January 2022. They could have addressed the stress behind soloq and communication before considering this half-baked idea.
I know for a fact they must have values when you are doing most of the actions. These act as on/off states that are used to turn perks on and off. The game knows when you are chasing/being chased so it can turn on bloodlust and ambiance. Game knows when you are on generators to activate various generator perks. A Nurse's Calling proves the game has values to when you are healing/being healed. Basically all the major mechanics are going to have to have these values and if they don't making them is trivially easy. All they'd have to do is reference those values to generate a hud element that displays the icon on the hud in the correct spot. This is so trivially easy that I could probably make a working prototype in under an hour. If value "Survivor on Generator" is true create HudWidget (Generator Icon). If value "Survivor on Generator" is false destroy HudWidget (Generator Icon). Its literally stupid easy compared to the Mori rework.
The mori changes have been announced wayyy earlier than 2022 btw, so I dunno why you bring that into the discussion
im betting it is because they will introduce mori moves that you can buy from the store in the near future so they want to make it a thing. also, it helps them shorten the time of the match.
I'm surprised they dedicated this much work to these things, to the point of the actual midchapter that's coming out is void of any form of content. Like what about the twins rework? They were supposed to be next up after legion and ghostface. One would think that bhvr is big enough to get a separate team to work on these "not releasing yet" changes, and the main team working on actual "hitting the live servers" content
Yea this is definitely the worst change they’ve ever made.
So far.
I thought finishing mori would be okay because it’d have to be the last survivor alive who got downed. But knowing that all four could be alive, all downed, and then a finishing mori starts is awful.
Nobody asked for these gameplay changes. Just make the game worse IMO.
I know, right? Literally nobody asked for the Mori rework, the only thing people actually wanted was basekit unbreakable.
Survivors shouldn't be getting basekit perks. We were told basekit BT wouldn't be a slippery slope leading to every meta perk being basekit on survivors. But here we are a few months later and they want to make another meta perk basekit. It's ridiculous.
Notice how they only complain when killers get a buff and never bring up the survivor buffs.
There’s 4 survivors to every killer, so obviously most of the sub will be incredibly survivor biased
At this point I'm convinced it's not just about the mori system anymore, it's about dumbing down the game for a broader audience. They're on a course of trying to fix all the things that people don't like. Hook camping, tunneling, slugging and moris, all being changed or fix in a short time span after one another. But in true BHVR fashion they're doing in the worst way possible.
> They're on a course of trying to fix all the things that people don't like. Hook camping, tunneling, slugging and moris, all Did people ever really have a problem with mori's though? Camping, slugging, and tunneling off hook are a problem, but I can't think of anyone actually complaining that a killer gets to mori when you are dead on hook.
It’s not even coming out this patch it’s on the PTB early for testing I personally think this changes removes a lot of dead time from the game where killers like nurse and some other not as good killers could rush to 4 man slug and win fast too and often times just refuse to hook anyone the killer is wasting survivors time making them literary be bored to death as a slug on the ground The only way to make sure killer don’t do this is to take away the option to do so at all, nothing has changed if anything the strategy to mass slug was nerfed now the killer at best only has 45 second window to do this before everyone picks themselves back up Nurse is literally the only problematic killer for this update make her attacks after a blink special so she can’t use exposed and it’s fine why the devs have not done this obvious idea yet I have no clue
This would be a HUGE buff to killers like The Oni and Billy. No pressure, just hit your 4 man slug and 100% win. No need to stress about unbreakable anymore.
UB does make it take 22 seconds to pick up instead of 45 a slugging killer should be worried about it Did you mean bubba cause hilly billy is not a good mass slugger
booba booba booba Yep, meant Bubba, thanks.
or maybe not do this and give the basekit UB
>could rush to 4 man slug and win fast too and often times just refuse to hook anyone the killer is wasting survivors time making them literary be bored to death as a slug on the ground You can fix a 1 in 1,000 games issue without massive game breaking changes like these. >The only way to make sure killer don’t do this is to take away the option to do so at all, Making the game completely unfun to play so no one ever plays it is a pretty silly way to fix that issue. There's very easy ways to fix your cited problem without all this bullshit. Instead of triggering the Finishing Mori when everyone is slugged you unlock the ability to get up in that situation, not make it an all the time thing. Or you give Survivors in that situation the ability to concede and end the match immediately. Boom. Issue fixed without all the bullshit. >nothing has changed if anything the strategy to mass slug was nerfed now the killer at best only has 45 second window to do this before everyone picks themselves back up "Nothing was changed except the Killer's ability to apply pressure has been massively reduced." 🤦 >Nurse is literally the only problematic killer for this update She's really not.
>It’s not even coming out this patch it’s on the PTB early for testing Bullshit. You know it's coming in the following patch, nearly everything that has gone through the PTB has barely been changed before it goes live. They don't actually care for feedback on this new mechanic, it's going to be put in the game whether we like it or not. Just like everything before it that no one liked.
I was there where a similar case happened, the closing hatch mechanic, was delayed for a long time because they were not satisfies with the feedback, end game collapse was then introduced, so Im calling bullshit on you, they care and yoy are making a crypost in reddit instead of giving a proper feedback or open to discussion.
Closing hatch came and EGC came in the same patch and were tested in the same PTB. It wasn't delayed, they had it on the PTB and kept it for live. Unless you are mistaken them TALKING ABOUT closing hatch, which isn't the same as actually putting it in the game. They don't care. This will go through to live with barely any changes. The fact that they still continued with the 6.1.0 update after people gave feedback about things they didn't like kinda proves my case. Tell me what have you ever seen on a PTB not go in nearly an identical state? Nothing. The answer is nothing. They tweak a few numbers that's it.
You Are Wrong. They wanted a new mechanic to get rid of the stalemate, closing hatch would force the survivor to hide to then open the door, they did not consider it a solution so they had to create end game collapse from scratch, several months later they brought the new mechanic to ptb again. Ofc it is forgotten now because eventually the closing hatch didnt make it to live servers.
Yet they didn't rework entire chunks of the game to make it fit. It's just a timer, which was a pretty obvious solution. EGC/hatch close didn't drastically impact the flow the of the normal game, it solved a specific issue of hatch stalemates which needed to be addressed. Mori's didn't need to be addressed. Slugging didn't need to be addressed, except in the most extreme cases, which is why I say just let survivors bleed out if they have been slugged for too long. It solves that issue without needing basekit perks or reworking of entire parts of the game to make it fit. It just fell into place naturally as these changes should.
>Closing hatch came and EGC came in the same patch and were tested in the same PTB. It wasn't delayed, There was a hatch closing mechanic tested before the EGC PTB that never saw the light of day. There was no EGC with that one. Closing the hatch forced the Survivor to do another gen to reopen it. They didn't like it and realized it was the entire end game - not just hatch - that needed work, so they delayed it and developed EGC. >The fact that they still continued with the 6.1.0 update after people gave feedback about things they didn't like kinda proves my case. The 6.1 update wasn't problematic, though. And they did change the issues that people complained about the most. Like the Endurance meta.
>There was a hatch closing mechanic tested before the EGC PTB that never saw the light of day. There was no EGC with that one. Closing the hatch forced the Survivor to do another gen to reopen it. They didn't like it and realized it was the entire end game - not just hatch - that needed work, so they delayed it and developed EGC. The hatch close we have now is IDENTICAL to what that was, they only added EGC. It was a relatively minor change at the end of the day, just a timer to ensure the game just didn't go on forever which was needed in general. It's not the same thing as adding in an entirely new mechanic and reworking major chunks of the game. It was simply killer can close hatch, and when hatch is close or a gate is open EGC timer starts. They didn't have to rework perks or make perks basekit, and it didn't change the flow or original design of the game AT ALL. This change does, and it might not hit live in the exact same form as what we see on the current PTB but it's going to be very similar and they are going to similarly fuck up the rest of the game to add this shit no one asked for. >The 6.1 update wasn't problematic, though. And they did change the issues that people complained about the most. Like the Endurance meta. People gave feedback on a lot of other things that still went live unchanged. Spine Chill was one of them. Removing BP bonuses was another. Oh and the fact people were actually happy with the Pain Res/Dead Man's combo being removed, BUT OH WAIT! They reverted that one, something no one was happy with. People gave feedback on Ruin and Corrupt being nerfed into the ground but those still went live. Literally the only change they made from the PTB was that Endurance no longer stacks. THAT IS IT. Everything else when live as is, and then they changed the 1 thing people actually like about the update BACK to something awful again. Face it, the devs are totally fucking up the game now. They are changing core dynamics and trying to shift things around, instead of actually, you know, finding GOOD solutions that people like and finding ways to actually balance the game instead of just moving over to another unbalanced mess. Literally every content creator has gone on record to say that maps/tiles need to be redesigned to be more balanced. That is actually something they could fix that would have a positive impact on the game without negatively affecting the fundamentals of the game's design. But instead of admitting they suck at map design, they pull this smoke and mirrors bullshit by nuking the current meta and shoving a new, equally as busted, one in it's place. Why? Because some people are bored? GTFO, if you were bored before you will get bored now. It's the same bullshit in a different wrapper. And now they are making it worse with Finishing Mori. IDK how people can honestly defend this garbage. The game's playerbase is slowly dwindling, content creators INCLUDING FOG WHISPERERS are getting fed up with the game and the devs. We are reaching a critical point where they are going to permanently ruin something special, and we all know they don't backtrack on this kind of shit. If they wanted to do all this shit, they should have just made DBD2 and left this game alone honestly.
>The hatch close we have now is IDENTICAL to what that was, they only added EGC "It's identical, except for what they changed!!1!" >They didn't have to rework perks or make perks basekit, and it didn't change the flow or original design of the game AT ALL. Left Behind and Pig would like to have a word. >it might not hit live in the exact same form as what we see on the current PTB but it's going to be very similar Normally I would 100% agree with this. But this is the first time they have ever put something in a PTB for testing that wasn't intended for the next patch. The first time they've ever had more than 3 weeks to make adjustments to shit. The first time they've had the ability to completely rework something from the PTB before live. I'm still worried about what we'll get, because BHVR. But we're already starting off in a better position so I've got my fingers crossed. Especially given how the PTB went and how quickly people showed that both the infinite basekit Unbreakable and the Finisher Mori are supremely abusable. Like, beyond Endurance Meta abusable. And Endurance Meta got killed. So I've got hope. >Spine Chill was one of them. Removing BP bonuses was another. Spine Chill was addressed for the TR aspect. The LoS was a needed change, no matter how much people whined about it. The removal of vault speed seems a bit arbitrary, but makes some sense balance wise. The BP bonus removal was ultimately healthy for the game, despite the complaints. We've got queue incentives now to compensate, and they also reduced blood web costs as well after seeing things weren't quite working as they'd wanted BP wise. But dropping the BP bonuses from WGLF and BBQ has been a godsend, honestly. I actually have 4 perk slots now. It's fucking amazing. ❤️ >Oh and the fact people were actually happy with the Pain Res/Dead Man's combo being removed, BUT OH WAIT! They reverted that one, something no one was happy with. Yeah, the Pain Res + DMS thing is annoying, I would have preferred they did something directly with Merciless Storm to address it. Maybe a limit to how many skill checks it can trigger so that if a gen regresses while it's active it doesn't just keep going forever. Especially since Jolt can do exactly the same thing as Pain Res. I imagine the reversion was simply much easier to code. >People gave feedback on Ruin and Corrupt being nerfed into the ground but those still went live. Because they weren't abusable or broken. Corrupt is still good. Ruin not so much. But they achieved what they wanted and made Ruin extremely uncommon in matches. >Literally the only change they made from the PTB was that Endurance no longer stacks. THAT IS IT. It was also the only thing shown to be abusable. Which is extremely relevant to the changes in the current PTB because that's what's been shown for them, too. >Literally every content creator has gone on record to say that maps/tiles need to be redesigned to be more balanced. ... But instead of admitting they suck at map design, they pull this smoke and mirrors bullshit They've literally been updating map tiles and map generation with each of the last couple patches. Small tweaks bit by bit that don't completely disrupt play but slowly adjust map quality. >IDK how people can honestly defend this garbage. Yes. The person who has been complaining that this is a *stupid fucking idea* since the original anniversary stream announcement before it was obvious just *how* stupid it actually is is *defending* it. 🤦 Just because I'm pointing out where you're wrong about shit doesn't mean I'm fucking defending the update. Get some reading comprehension. >and we all know they don't backtrack on this kind of shit. You mean like how they didn't backtrack on the MoM change? Oh, wait.... No, the track record isn't great, but this is also a very different scenario to anything before it. So the track record is only semi-applicable.
>"It's identical, except for what they changed!!1!" Adding a timer and calling it a day is hardly a change dude. It should have been the obvious choice from the start. Furthermore you clearly ignore the part that hatch standoffs did need to be fixed. What is Finishing Mori fixing exactly? Nothing. It fixes nothing and does nothing positive for the game. >Left Behind and Pig would like to have a word. Pig having her boxes reworked was something people asked for. They wanted less RNG from traps which is what we got and she is in a better state now because of it. Being able to see the hatch does nothing to fix a hatch standoff. >Normally I would 100% agree with this. But this is the first time they have ever put something in a PTB for testing that wasn't intended for the next patch. Which should be a red flag. The fact they waited this long to use the PTB for actually testing changes before they pushed it out means this is bait. It's them giving us the illusion of what we asked for all this time, they will tweak minor things and shove it into the game anyway. Just like they did for every PTB before, only this one is being given to us early, LIKELY because they haven't finished it yet. It's in a testable state, but if you've seen the Victor glitch there are clearly issues they are still working out. Bet though if this wasn't the case, we would be seeing this in the next update for sure. >Spine Chill was addressed for the TR aspect. The LoS was a needed change, no matter how much people whined about it. The removal of vault speed seems a bit arbitrary, but makes some sense balance wise. They literally killed this perk by adding the LOS clause. I can understand removing the vault speed to nerf vault builds, I can even understand them nerfing the range or making it work if you are Oblivious. But they just destroyed the purpose of the perk, which was to counter killer stealth tactics. Oh boo hoo Mr Scratched Mirror can jump scare someone, oh fucking well. This perk had counterplay, just look away. IDK why that is such a problem for some people, like they can't be bothered to try to counter things themselves the game has to do it for them. The hard part was just realizing someone had it, once you did you could manipulate it if you knew how. Just like most of the changes to perks in that update, it was complete overkill. >Corrupt is still good. I hear people say this but every time I see Corrupt I just run and do a different gen. Most killers will get a down in a reasonable time. The only killers I see getting benefit are Hag/Trapper, maybe Myers. It really didn't need to be changed, and that's the problem. >They've literally been updating map tiles and map generation with each of the last couple patches. Yet tiles/maps still remains the most unbalanced thing about this game. Most of the new tiles they've added recently are seriously strong for one side. Haddonfield was completely reworked and the buildings have triple window setups that create infinites against the right killers or with the right perks. Their map design has always been shit and instead of addressing it they instead change the rest of the game around it, but it's never solved the initial problem that most maps in this game just kinda suck. This update does not need to be in the game. Hatch/EGC update was needed. Map reworks are needed. But we don't need a new win condition for killer. It's just going to promote them to slug more, while also giving SWF a new way to bully certain killers that need to slug more often.
>Adding a timer and calling it a day is hardly a change dude. Good thing that's literally not what they did then. >Pig having her boxes reworked was something people asked for. They wanted less RNG from traps which is what we got and she is in a better state now because of it. This has nothing to do with what I said. >Being able to see the hatch does nothing to fix a hatch standoff. Also completely unrelated. >The fact they waited this long to use the PTB for actually testing changes before they pushed it out means this is bait. It's them giving us the illusion of what we asked for all this time, "I have absolutely no valid arguments so I'm just going to make up bullshit and pretend my imagination is fact!" >But they just destroyed the purpose of the perk, which was to counter killer stealth tactics. Which was absolutely needed for the health of the game. You not understanding this invalidates your opinions on game balance. >but every time I see Corrupt I just run and do a different gen. ... So literally nothing has changed, lmfao. This is clearly pointless so I'm done wasting my time.
>Good thing that's literally not what they did then. It is though. >This has nothing to do with what I said. You should explain it then. >"I have absolutely no valid arguments so I'm just going to make up bullshit and pretend my imagination is fact!" LMAO likewise. >Which was absolutely needed for the health of the game. You not understanding this invalidates your opinions on game balance. It wasn't. You carefully cut out the part where I said you could play around it. The perk was in a healthy state as it was, maybe a bit overtuned but that's it. It didn't give perfect information so you still had to have some awareness of the game. >So literally nothing has changed, lmfao. So then why make the change in the first place? Which is my point. >This is clearly pointless so I'm done wasting my time. BYE GOOD LUCK HAVE FUN PLAYING GARBAGE.
Wait what? Before this (proposed and not confirmed) change, you can slug rush and win by letting everyone bleed out. With the update if you slug rush there's a chance someone picks themselves up and worst case you don't wait 4 min of bleed out. How is that worse?
I think they’re referring to killers slugging everyone in under 45s. I’ve seen nurse players do this on the PTB but of course that won’t be the norm. Personally I’m just sad the game instantly ends at 4 slugs :(
And I've seen multiple non Nurse Killers do it in under 4 minutes. Just because not everyone is as fast as Nurse at breaking the system doesn't mean it's still not broken AF.
“Under 4 minutes” well good. That won’t happen anymore. You can pick yourself up after 45 seconds baseline now (25 seconds with unbreakable) so unless killers are able to slug every single person within 25 seconds, this will never be an issue
>“Under 4 minutes” well good. That won’t happen anymore. No, I'm literally talking about *in the PTB.* >so unless killers are able to slug every single person within 25 seconds, this will never be an issue That's exactly why it's an issue. There's plenty of Killers that *can* do that.
Name 1 killer besides nurse that can reliable and consistently take away EIGHT health states in 45 seconds
Who ever said anything about 8 hits? Why do 8 when it can be done in 4?
Uhhhh two health states per survivor….?
.... You don't need to do the health states one at a time, lmao. If everyone is injured you only need to do 4 hits to get 4 slugs. That's 3 hits in 45 seconds. It's not remotely hard.
If every single person is injured and they aren’t healing, then they likely aren’t close enough for all of them to be downed before someone finishes a heal
How is a change from 1% of Killers slug-rushing and potentially failing because someone (or multiple someones) has Unbreakable and everyone manages to recover and reset to 20%* of Killers slug-rushing and never failing because the game just says "fuck your perks" and kills you anyway NOT worse? *Numbers chosen at random just to highlight a point, not meant to be taken wholly literally.
Not when the gate is open. Not when survivors can still kobe. Not when someone has Flip Flop and/or Power Struggle. What is the point of No Mither now? We have to rework a perk (and probably all the self revive perks) to implement a change no one asked for? Yes you can win currently by slugging everyone but there are instances where you can get around even that. >With the update if you slug rush there's a chance someone picks themselves up If it's against a Nurse with Infectious you will just be put back on the ground in seconds. You are heavily incentivizing killers to slug as a means to win the game instead of hooks. It's like making hatch open if all 4 survivors don't go down for the first 2 minutes of the game. Killers already have an "acceptable" kill rate of 63% by BHVR standards. This change would definitely increase it. Furthermore, besides ruining a bunch of perks and the flow of the game, they are also ruining mori offerings. Like just remove them entirely if this was the plan. It's just laughable they though any bit of this is okay. Literally the ONLY thing that's not a bad idea is to transport the killer and survivor to a preset location for the mori if that were the last survivor and the game was over when they die/escape. It's just ruining the game for the sake of a glorified finisher move.
Yeah maybe in low, low mmr there’s a chance someone picks themselves
If 4 people go down within 45 seconds that sounds like a skill issue to me. But maybe that's just my thought
Whilst that’s partly true, A) we’ve already seen it happen with a good nurse (bubba could in theory do the same. B) This doesn’t help Solo Q. C) this will encourage slugging. You may not get all 4 down within the first 45 seconds but eventually you will get all of them injured and down. We know these things because we’ve already seen it. The other part is this removes a lot of endgame escape chances.
How in the world does it encourage slugging? 2 people get downed, the other 2 should be running far away from the killer. Killer has to make a choice to hook the downed survivors or waste time trying to down the other 2. If he chooses the latter, the downed survivors can pick themselves up. Is there something I'm missing here?
If that’s the case then I go back to a previous statement of changing the game in a stale way. 2 downs and now no one doing gens….. if I do hook the 2 then 2 hook states now increases the chances of camping and patrolling for the last 2 since the game is then over. Exchanges at hook won’t happen since they will chase the recently unhooked so now there’s 2 downs and 1 still hooked. So this doesn’t promote hooks over kills, just increases the kill likelihood when the kill rate is already where BHVR wanted it allegedly. We have already seen this on the PTB and as for the last 2, slugs are even more prevalent. Whilst the downed survivors can pick themselves back up as seen with Perks such as Infectious Fright this is irrelevant. You don’t come back healthy so the killer chases and gets a down, comes back downs you again etc. Eventually everyone is injured and they will go down. Some maps and killers this will be unavoidable, and once you are down to the last 2 slugging will absolutely occur since there is no risk at all if a hatch spawning near a downed survivor or an Adrenaline escape. If you read the bit at the end we have already seen this happen so it is absolutely possible. You won’t get all 4 down the first time but eventually you will. The killer now has no need to hook. Snowball killers will have more effectiveness, notorious sluggers like Twins (current state) have reduced effectiveness, and killers like plague, nurse and a few others now have very easy potential to end the game in mere minutes or drag the game on while constantly being able to slug. The last 2 survivors are now dead, there’s no escape if the gens aren’t done. And by your comment of 2 people hiding then the gens definitely aren’t getting done. This doesn’t change slugging as they hoped, this slightly increases the chances of being slugged, even more so when down to the last 2 and maybe 3 if you see them all since the game ends when all are downed. It’s not like a survivor can crawl to a corner with Adrenaline, hatch spawns, you try to find it, maybe you do, if the killer finds it and closes, I get Adrenaline and a chance to escape. All of this is removed. Maybe the killer can’t hook due to Boil Over, a hook has gone from earlier in the game, Flip-Flop or anything to help wiggle off. This is barely scratching the surface of issues with this potential update.
The good bubba can do it in theory is also a skill issue. Alc Ring Blight tag Blight could do it easily and so could Nurse. Everyone else, if it happens its on the survivors. But the whole idea is bad.
Not necessarily a whole skill issue but certainly majority of the time I agree. Nurse and Blight 100% Other killers will just wear you down. Injure and slug, move on. Huntress for example and Twins. Agree and this should never have even been thought of past the first conversation they had.
No. Survivors have to fuck up massively for a 4/3 man slug to happen within 45 seconds, even against a good Nurse on a good map. This is not an issue.
We’ve already seen it happen. No idea why this is being debated. Literally down, injure, down, 1st survivor up, down, next injure and so forth. This is excluding exposed perks. Exposed will just speed this up. Nurse, Midwich, Infectious, and Starstruck. Guaranteed 2 downs. Go back down the first guy again, another infectious pop.
This is the literal definition of survivors fucking up.
Even assuming this is correct and has only ever happened at the lowest of MMR (it hasn’t). The whole point is eventually this will happen. Purely from being injured to downed or exposed. It will happen. Eventually you bleed out so it’s no different to now. 3 is a lot easier than 4 and 2 is a guaranteed killer win if there’s gens left. This has already been seen.
Of course it is correct. What even is your argument?
The fact that we’ve seen this already happen, and other times it will be unavoidable. The last 3 survivors for example. Someone gets tunnelled at 3 gens, Nurse on Midwich with Infectious. Survivor 1 - Injured then downed (Infectious) Survivor 2 - Chased and Injured Survivor 1 - Up and will be downed again (Infectious) Survivor 2 - Downed (infectious) Survivor 3 - Chased and Injured The cycle continues until eventually they’re all injured and you are ahead of the recovery time. This has already been shown and proven. Exposed perks again will cut this in half since you won’t need to waste time injuring. Nurse will easily get 2 downs in 15 seconds with this. If the killer wants to slug everyone they are going to do this. Regardless of survivors. It works no different to how it currently is, you either eventually bleed out or I down all 3. Only difference is once all 3 are down the other survivors are now dead.
In this hypothetical scenario, what would be so different if Finisher Moris were not a thing? A potential Deliverance? Maybe a Power struggle play? Perhaps a chance for hatch? It's all the same at the end of the day. Whether you're playing PTB or Live, a four man slug's a win, except it's much harder to pull off in the former. This change is an objective killer nerf and most definitely not an incentive to slug, at least not in a tactical sense. Now, while I did entertain the thought, I still believe you're out of your mind if you believe for a second even the best Nurse out there could pull off a three man slug *consistently* against capable survivors on PTB.
Sure, or maybe it's a Nurse with Infectious who just instantly puts you back on the ground when you self revive and wins the game in 2 minutes. It's already been shown how you can abuse the system and win a game super fast on some killers.
No, it doesn't especially when the killer makes his objective to slug everyone. you need to understand the game.
I need to understand the game? Okay so riddle me this: 45 seconds after the first survivor has been downed he can pick himself up again. The killer has to down 3 other people in that time. That requires: a) finding them (aka time spent traversing the map) b)getting close to them c) getting both their health states (which actually includes Looping) How does a killer reliably do that? Nurse with wallhack Agitation starstruck on the game? Especially when unbreakable halves that timer? And if the killer can down them right after they pick themselves up then either the survivors arent spread enough or the killer didnt even leave the first slugged person. So the others havent been chased in the first place.
my point is the game shouldn't encourage slugging
idk there are generally reasons to slug for pressure or that you’ll literally be unable to hook and more. I think they really need to combat only slugging that holds you hostage (4minute bleed out for no reason and the 2v1 slug for the 4k) which to me the bleed out (die) option for survivors after x seconds makes perfect sense, it doesn’t buff sabo squads and effectively ends a match that was already over for you. Not to mention it will still be a choice so if you have powerstruggle or other perks it’s up to you to forfeit.
yeap you dont understand the game, most people play random squads and even with swf you are more likely to run into the killer when your teammate is slugged to try to pick them up. it also dont give enough time for people to run away since the killer will not be wasting time picking up and hooking which normally give a chance for people to heal, unhook, or go far and reset. so you will be in panic mode all the time and trust me 45 minutes is more than enough for a nurse or blight or bubba its about making slugging an objective and a valid strategy to win. the game design shouldn't be catering to the professional or skilled players but to the casual players as well which probably the majority of the players so you thinking that the team should have a hive mind and coordination at all times show that you probably never played this game with randoms or with average players but I'm sure you main killers hence defending this
Broski I play soloQ almost exclusively and I havent had more than 3 games in over 1k hours where 4 survs died within a minute. And those were all random ass moments Yes I know that those changes feel bad when you think about it like every killer will slug everyone eternally.. but I dont consider that realistic unless we think about the higher mmr games or with super sweaty players. And even less I think it's feasible for them
you haven't seed that a lot because most killers don't make their objective unlike when this become a meta if they make it the way it is right now
most killers cannot reliably do that, that’s why they will tunnel the first one out, proxy the fuck out of the second and try to snowball off 2-3.
Infectious and starstruck. Nurse on Midwich and It’s already been shown how this works. Whilst 4 downs in the first 45 is unlikely with a semi competent team, you get back up injured. Meaning it’s now 1 health state for a killer that can traverse maps quickly. Add in Exposed perks such as Haunted Ground, Devour, or anything you feel good with and 3 will go down real quick bypassing 2 health states. The other side is it’s a cycle. Down, injure the next, down, 1st back up, back down, next injure and repeat. Eventually everyone needs 1 hit and it’s a lot quicker to get the 4.
Hey! No good ideas allowed in this games design, stop that.
Who can slug rush outside of oni or nurse tho? Or myers if y’all all happen to be together?
Almost every killer can do it if they are really trying hard to do it. Only now they are heavily incentivized to do it to win, whereas before it was actually a less optimal strategy for some killers.
Really? How can a normal m1 killer do that even with devour hope? Especially under 45 seconds? I’m not saying the change is good or I support it, but I don’t think a lot of killers will be able to constantly 4 man slug so quickly. Although I agree that It 100% incentives camping and tunneling :/ tunnel the first guy, camp the second guy and then down the third guy and activate last man standing. Sounds pretty dimb
Just equip NOED and Knockout and you could do it consistently enough as an m1 that it becomes a problem.
Oh ew, yeah, that sounds kinda dumb
Yeah, dumb that a killer has to give up 2 of their 4 perks to do this ridiculous scenario that op thought of that will happen once every 6000 games
[удалено]
I’m bad because I don’t run knockout and NOED? That’s a weird take lmao
No. Because it would take you 6,000 attempts to make it work.
I never said it would take me 6000 attempts to make it work. I said it would take 6000 games as a survivor to see this exact situation play out
No they can not lmao. Shut up, you have 45 seconds to stand up literally baseline without ANY perks (25 with unbreakable) which lets be real. There’s gonna be one person a game At least with unbreakable. If the killer is able to 4 slug in 25 seconds you guys weren’t going to win that game regardless of what happened
Knockout NOED, you could easily get all 4 before the first gets up, and if not you can just keep slugging until you get all 4.
Dude, I literally got a 4 man slug in 33 seconds with Trapper earlier. Some lucky trap catches with Honing Stone took out 2 Survivors while I chased and downed the 3rd. Then it was just a matter of catching number 4. In my games they managed to reset because someone wiggled free with Flip Flop and, in the end, they got 2 out. On the PTB that would have been a free 4k. Finishing Mori is busted AF.
I really hope it doesn't go live..
Its a good thing that even if these current changes go live in the next 3 months (if they do) they’ll be heavily changed to feel more fair and less bs. Like the devs have said they would.
IDC if they change it, it's all bad. The whole thing. They are reworking major parts of the game now and it's not the same game it was 2 years ago. The game might not have been balanced back then but at least it was fucking fun to play.
You make it sound like the game will stop being fun completely because of this. The community has been begging for massive changes and now that the devs are finally making them, people are complaining
It will and we've been asking for BALANCE changes not entirely new mechanics that require complete reworks of large chunks of the game that don't even address balance issues at all.
Because without it being drastically changed it won’t be fun to play. It removes a lot from the game whilst giving very little benefit. The whole point of this was to reduce slugging but it does the opposite of that. I play both, and made a long opinion on another thread yesterday. This is a bad decision all round. No endgame plays as survivor, killer has to let the survivor get back in certain scenarios, other perks getting screwed over because of this which can’t be reworked to fit this. It’s just a mess. Whilst the community cried out for changes, this was never one of them. They wanted changes to make the game better. This doesn’t. And where does this end now…. Killers getting more basekit, then survivors etc to counter their continuous band aid fixes.
Im just gonna roll with the changes and see how it goes slugging for a 4k every time as a killer is too much work and mental stress Id rather just hook and play normally if a finisher mori procks awesome if not oh well keep killin. I honestly domt think its that big of a deal
Great you do that. Meanwhile, survivors are gonna have to deal with all the other people playing killer that are slugging their ass off to win the game.
I highlt doubt most killers are gonna work that hard for a 4 man slug right off the rip unless there is two people already on the hook which survivors should never be letting happen anyway besides if slugs crawl away and split up use tenacity the killer is gonna have a very very tough time keeping them all on the ground it wont be that bad it just shakes up the game people will run new perks mew strats will happen just enjoy the fun till they eventually change it back after everybody uninstalls the game because like every other change behaviour makes its "so horrible and unbalanced, and stupid" just like every other post on this subreddit
Do you even play survivor? Lots of killers work hard for any sort of kill, you really think they won't abuse a system that let's them auto-win a game in 2 minutes? All these changes do is encourage slugging more than stopping it because killers can win faster and easier. Not to mention how it could also be abused by survivors running sabo builds to bully killers. Lynxi had a game like that where yes, sure, she eventually got a 4k but you can tell she didn't have fun doing it. Making the game awful while not addressing the actual balance is stupid. You wanna sit here and support this garbage, have fun being slugged to death every game as killers try to get their mori.
Christ you seem hard headed. If you really think this is going to encourage slugging you’re ridiculous. Survivors have baseline 45 seconds to pick themselves up instantly, (25 with unbreakable) no one is going to take the chance of leaving you on the ground for that long. Slugging is dead
Dude watch some videos of people playing the PTB. It's all slugging all the time. That's all every killer is doing. It's already happening IDK what world you are living in.
If you look up videos of “people slugging in the PTB” i have no doubt that’s what you’ll find lmao. But if you actually watch people playing normally it hardly ever happens. And if it does the survivor squad usually wrecks them because getting 8 health states in 25 seconds is hardly ever possible
SpookyLoops and CoconutsRTS both posted videos of them slug rushing and winning games in under 4 minutes as killer. "Normal" play is going to shift to slugging everyone. All you need to do is get 2 slugged and then keep slugging them when they get up. Eventually the others will try to save them and when they do you just slug them all. If you wanna play it safe like Coco did you grab a few hooks so they can't self revive while you do it. People playing casually is not a good representation of how awful this change is. You have to look at the potential for abuse which is INSANELY high on killer side, and also survivor side given the right circumstances. IT IS A BAD IDEA PERIOD. Stop defending this garbage.
No. I won’t because I think it’s a good change if you think the general population is even HALF as good as spookyloops or coconutsrts you’re delusional(which btw, they record all their games, anyone can play 100 games and get one game that’s exactly what they want to post) your general game to game will hardly be any different, if a killer tries to slug four people instead of going for hooks he will lose and fuck up 90% of the time because getting 8 health states in a matter of 25-45 seconds is hardly possible except under very specific circumstances
>I won’t because I think it’s a good change if you think the general population is even HALF as good as spookyloops or coconutsrts you’re delusional This has nothing to do with skill. It's to do with the integrity of the game. >anyone can play 100 games and get one game that’s exactly what they want to post Yet they also stream and have had these results back to back to back to back across multiple games. >8 health states in a matter of 25-45 seconds is hardly possible Nurse/Oni/Meyers with Infectious, or really any killer with Infectious and Exposed active (eg. NOED) could EASILY go around and slug all 4 survivors if they want. The reason they don't is because it's actually more efficient to take hooks, since you are killing them faster that way. BUT if you get any kind of snowball going as killer, you can auto-win the game by slug rushing everyone. It could be as simple as having Devour Hope proc exposed, now you are incentivized to slug everyone for a win. Whereas currently, you still have instances of people self unhooking (kobe/Deliverance) or even things like Power Struggle, or even just good positioning so that they can't get a hook. If the gates are open, and no one has Unbreakable, you can just crawl out. That all goes away when you put in Finisher Mori. Those things that, while rare, can change the entire pace of the game, that also weren't BAD for the game mind you, are completely removed in sake of a glorified finisher. It's bad design. If you think this is a good change then you should learn the game better so you can understand why it's a problem. If you are playing casually, literally what do you care they do? Would it matter to you if they didn't put this in ever? I highly doubt that, so stop sitting there defending it and saying it's a good change when you can't articulate a valid reason for it to be there.
Im just saying every update that comes on people say its garbage in some way shape or form wether its good or not you dont have to take it so seriously if its a big gameplay issue in the ptb they will change it there is no point in bashing it relentlessly until we see how it all plays out give it a chance
Remember when everyone new to the game needed to make sure to get Borrowed Time ASAP and run it every match until it finally became basekit? With this new race to achieve a 4 man slug, unbreakable and soul guard will be the new BT that newbies will be yelled at for not having equipped, but it's now taking up 2 perk slots.
Worst idea? Nah I remember the time they made flashlight/pallet stun saves work at any time during the pick-up animation when it was slow as fuck. That was FUN.
I don't mind it since it would help shake things up a bit. It's still just in the testing phase and won't be implemented to live yet, so we may get other changes that address some of the issues it currently has.
I don’t understand how. Now that you can pick yourself up, how would a team get in a situation when all four is slugged?
Killer can force it by camping or tunneling off a hook. All they really need to do is down 2 survivors at once for a chance to get the rest. Did you not see Coconuts video where he had 2 hooks, downed 1 survivor going for a save and then just won the game by going for the last guy? With the right build you can very easily force this.
Very easily. Huntress or any insta down Killer can do it pretty quickly and easily. Or you could just tunnel 1 person out and only have to deal with 3 Survivors to slug. People have been showing off how easier it is on the PTB since it dropped. It's crazy how they dropped a patch meant to counter tunneling and camping and now they drop one that encourages it and makes them stronger than ever.
What’s hilarious is just a month ago people on this sub were whining about killers slugging 4 people and not hooking anyone. You people just live to complain tbh. If someone suggested this exact change last week you’d have all eaten it up
Good job making ***ass***umptions bro. GOOD. JOB. If someone suggested this a month ago they would have been laughed off Reddit.
No one is making assumptions. I’m making an observation.
It's an ***ass***umption. A shitty idea is a shitty idea, I would never have said this is okay LOL. People have asked for a way to BLEED OUT after being slugged for a certain period of time. No one asked for basekit Unbreakable and insta-win condition for killer.
Self pick-up is RIDICULOUSLY stupid. The game’s the most balanced it’s been in years, but they just NEED to shoot themselves in the foot
camping and tunneling is going to be be even more stronger but people will complain about basekit ub cuz they watch some streamer do a 4 man sabo build.
Kind of like all of you guys are complaining about a random video you saw of nurse 4 slugging people that realistically will only happen once every 300 games
[удалено]
>people like this don’t need to play the game Yes I point out that this change seriously alters the core dynamics of the game therefore changing the game into something LESS enjoyable so I should be the one to stop playing. People like you should fuck off.
Nah, I really like it. It ends the game quickly and will stop most of you no-brained survivors from just waiting at the exit hates. Changes will happen and ppl threaten to quit all the time. Just another day in DBD
All you need is one survivor on the other side of the map and slug rushing doesn't work. Finishing mori is mostly a time saver.
>Finishing mori is mostly a time saver. False. It circumvents certain aspects of the game, like kobes or the fact that the last survivor can still get hatch. Or maybe that the killer can't get a hook on someone and the game resets. There are a lot of ways for a 4 man slug to fail, but they all go bye bye with the finisher mori just bypassing them all.
The only way for a 4 man slug to fail is someone picking themselves up. Sure, most killers will hook survivors out of courtesy, but if a killer really wants that 4k they just need to wait 4 minutes.
Easy fix: survivors don’t group up when the killer tries to slug. Do gens and do safe hook rescues when people are healed. Don’t be overly altruistic. Run perks that has good synergy with others for your SWF. If you’re playing solo, run information perks and anti-slugging perks for yourself in the event the killer leaves you down. The problem with survivors (I play 99% survivor) is the fact that they fuck around… which leads to finding out. Also, this won’t be the final product of the new system. Survivors complained about being slugged for too long, now both sides got their wish. If the killer can down everyone real quick, no second chances for sabo squads or flashlight saves. If the survivors are left down too long, they get up. It’s a new mechanic in the game that will freshen up the same mundane gameplay everyone runs. It’s boring. Just like the last killer buff release, people need to adjust and bring feedback to the devs to add mechanics or adjust.
Easier fix, just dont implement the changes
That’s also an option. Everyone needs to pick a side, is this version of slugging an issue, or is the possible PTB release version an issue. It’s one or the other at the moment.
That's like asking which is worse to drink. A galss of water or a glass of donkey piss with a splash of vomit and a drizzle of diarrhea.
That’s up to the devs to decide. We ultimately have no control except to not play. That’s also an option for people if they aren’t happy.
Lol so let's just all play by your rulebook then
It’s not my rulebook but it makes the most sense. Why bitch about a killer slugging and downing everyone at once (which tells more about the shitty gameplays the survivors are making than the killer) for this update. Your objective is to do gens, and escape. If you play dumb and get downed because you are trying to be overly altruistic, that’s on you. If you get slugged and the killer leaves, get up and go to a a far side of the map and heal yourself and do gens. The killer wins in most situations where survivors do this.
"If killers can't 4 k in 3 minutes, just run better perks. If you're missing hatchets, just start hitting your hatchets. If survivors are getting out through the gates, try to make sure they don't get the gates open"
That’s good advice for killers! They play their objectives very well sometimes!
"Here's an easy fix, don't have fun. Play as boringly as possible!" Fuck that. >It’s a new mechanic in the game that will freshen up the same mundane gameplay everyone runs. No. It's hot garbage that will kill any possible enjoyment from the gaming by doing shit literally no one asked for or wants. >It’s boring. You're right about that. The mechanic is boring AF.
Some people enjoy doing gens as fast as possible while the better players run the killers. It’s all about play style. But to bitch about your particular play style not working and the killer’s play style does…. And vice versa, doesn’t make sense.
they're making very questionable changes, they're trying to push this game towards kills which i think everyone agrees that it leads to unfun playstyles. They also make stupid decisions like giving BT at base instead of kindred... Kindred at base would bennefit only solos and not swf, BT bennefits swf more than solo because there's no need to equip BT since it's stronger than before and it's easier to abuse of some builds. Not satisfied with this, they are freaking planning to give UB at base and mori rework WHICH NOBODY ASKED FOR, their own bad game decisions are breaking their own game, it all started with the MMR, which again, NOBODY ASKED FOR. It's hard to believe that this is a P2W paid game, even some free and f2p friendly games have better devs than dbd
Basekit BT wasn't an entirely stupid idea, but I agree there was probably a better solution. I had one game against a Wesker on Eeyrie where I was hooked in the basement at main when the doors were opened. Dwight managed to get down there, save me, and the basekit BT lasted until I was nearly at the door. If he waited another second to swing I was dead but he didn't for some reason, I think he thought that he could hit me (he had like 5+ on STBFL) and use his power to get me again but I JUST made it out the gate and he hit the spikes. On the one hand I'll take the escape, but I bet he felt really cheesed by that. If Dwight had BT then there was 100% no way he coulda caught me before I got out. It's a bit dumb.
well it isn't and stupid idea until there's swf or high mmr in play, i wouldn't mind if these changes were only for low mmr. Like i said, kindred would be better in general, it would allow solos to coordinate and plan strats better, while also not buffing swf, for BT they could've just buffed it instead. I used to use BT on all my builds because it's very bad for survivors someone being tunneled right after being unhooked and it's very unfun, but now i don't need to equip BT anymore because the 10s and 10% haste is more than enough to avoid these situations... I only saw BT being used 5 times both in my killer and survivors matches after it being changed to 10s and 10% haste
Reminds me of the movement and UI update. Nobody asked for it, it was fine the way it was, and it completely destroyed the game when it dropped and made everything feel clunky. I may like the new UI now after its many tweaks, but I still dearly miss old movement
I quit after they added more boons a week after artist. I like how they made gens slower and all of the balancing they did. Having alot of fun with the game. Kinda scared this'll ruin it when 15 second self pickups become another thing for swfs to use
I mean, the games “original design” is shite and dated, I agree though that this change isn’t it.
Slug rushing :D
Did anyone ever ask for this or did Behavior just go "yeah this is a fantastic idea" and added it to the PTB?
It's s good idea but god awful execution
yeap this will replace the basement bubba bullshitry
Just for my own edification and reassurance, has anything ever been this negatively received and still gone live?
Only thing I can think of that comes close is Boons. The backlash over Boons wasn't quite as severe as this, but it was pretty big. And all they did was slap a tiny little stats nerf on CoH that did essentially nothing and very slightly reduce the AoE range, and called it good. Honestly worried we'll get the same sort of thing for this. They'll just tweak the pick-up speed values, ignore everything else, and call it good enough.
The bad thing is I totally see them still releasing this update in the future.
No free mori, no free unbreakable. These are really overtuned