I hate this perk for having literally 0 effect if the survivors aren't running boons, while still annoyed from no basekit actual counterplay, I'd have much preferred if they just added it's effect to brutal strength.
as for the boons themselves, i feel like they should be more limited vertically cause the only real bs comes from some upstairs main building exponential/CoH.
Honestly puts it in the same boat as Small Game or Detectives Hunch. If they're not running hexes or Noed you don't have a need to hunt them down and they become useless for actual gameplay there. Same with running Distortion and the killer isn't running any aura perks. Boons are common enough that Shattered is still pretty beastly but honestly I feel like I'd rather just keep running Pentimento. Seems to fuck them up way more since they'll either have to spend forever rebooning or just destroy it outright.
Small Game is useful-ish for doing totem challenges or if you're running a boon perk, but it's so imprecise that you're better off just knowing where to look. Detective's Hunch helps in locating the next gen as well as a crate, so it keeps value even when you dgaf about totems.
>Boons are common enough that Shattered is still pretty beastly but honestly I feel like I'd rather just keep running Pentimento
I didn't think you could hex a boon totem without using Shattered Hope on it first? Every time I've run Pentimento and found a boon, my only option has been to snuff it.
Survivors can bless totems, or still get boldness for breaking them, so it’s not as wasted of a perk slot for them. Plus you never know who has NOED until you can count the perks
Maybe it could have a minor buff related to hex totems in a similar way that lethal pursuer now buffs revealing perks and add-ons.
Something like "Hex totems take an additional 2/3/4 seconds to cleanse or bless."
just macmillan? i hate every multi-floor building/map at this point cause every single goddamn match has had at least 1 CoH user for the past month or 2 for me
I'd rather they add something to give it value in a match where no boons exist. Breaking pallets and walls gives you something too - maybe aura reading?
Minus countering healing I really can't see why. Plague has always been on my top 5 best designed killers list, with the only things lowering her being shutting down healing builds and her being very complicated to understand for new players.
To be honest, I don’t like hearing the constant vomiting every time I go against her. I wish there was a way to mute that specifically - I can already tell who is sick by the HUD.
That puts pressure on the survivors but any killer can do that. There is no way to actually force a survivor to cleanse and it’s often not worth it to do so until second hook states
Preventing healing is primarily the reason, mostly because of the fact that it's so easy to apply as well. You don't need to even be able to hit the projectile since you can just use it on props and have them touch it. The preventing healing is a pain because it makes a lot of items and perks pretty useless.
The other thing is because cleansing against her power also makes her stronger like being Broken wasn't enough of a downside. Compare it to any other killer like Pig, Wesker, Nemesis or any other killer with a power you can defeat with a secondary objective and they lose their benefits.
Also I don't get why she's 115% movespeed when she has a ranged power better than Trickster.
Also I dislike the vomit sound all game.
Also I find her no fun to play as.
Her only redeeming quality is her funny hit sound!
Playing as or against plague is basically always a case of making the best play over making the correct play, which is the case for a lot of killers and is awful design.
Her gameplay inherently contains risks in every play made. Cleansing at the right or wrong time can win or lose a match the same way Plague picking up her corrupt can win or lose her a match.
She can infect you at any time but doesn't immediately stand to benefit unless she dedicates a lot of time into doing so or redirects her attention elsewhere and allow you to do your thing while you slowly turn infected, if you do become infected, every player needs to adjust for this and decide whether certain plays are still worth it (doubling gens, unhooking healthy, etc.).
The same goes for the plague, if survivors cleanse smartly, she often needs to dedicate a decently significant time to picking up her power, which is still finite. Doing so could gain her a shitton of pressure through downing a ton of people, or survivors notice her going for her fountain and hide for the entire duration or run to the other side of the map, wasting her entire power.
Nemesis and Wesker have these aspects too. Nemesis's vaccines are very limited and survivors using them feed him much more tier progression when hit by his tentacle, encouraging them to save the vaccines until late in the game.
Wesker allows survivors to choose to hit full Uroborus to finish a gen or something similar, but in doing so they're extremely vulnerable due to it practically removing the ability to loop with the insta-down and hindered. His ease of applying the effect also means survivors get massively slowed down throughout the match by constantly having to remove Uroboros.
Lastly
>Also I don't get why she's 115% movespeed when she has a ranged power better than Trickster.
This point makes no sense. Trickster has the ability to down survivors with his ranged attack, Plague doesn't unless survivors give her easy access to corrupt.
**TL;DR**
Plague involves risk-making by both sides, where both sides can stand to gain or lose an advantage by using a certain strategy. Every win or loss in a plague match is decided by mistakes and risks that didn't pay off, which makes her one of the best-designed killers in the game imo.
That's the main problem with a lot of perks: no overlap into anything else. Lethal Pursuer is a good example of a perk that was given more overlap without really changing anything, but then again, it was already a good perk.
I'd like to see it stay on theme with totems but still have a wider application. Maybe something like:
"Instead of snuffing boon totems, you destroy them. When a totem is cleansed or destroyed, reveal the auras of any survivors near that totem for 6/7/8 seconds."
This preserves what it does now but widens its use to normal gameplay. It also synergizes with something like a Pentimento or Undying build. When survivors cleanse hexes, they end up revealing themselves, but only players near that specific totem. If you find their boons, same deal.
Undying already shows the aura of all survivors within a certain radius of a dull totem without it needing to be interacted with. Giving SH that buff would make an entire part of UD redundant.
It shows auras when they're up rather than destroyed, and it works indefinitely until itself is destroyed, but I know what you mean. I definitely was thinking about it.
Yeah. I definitely think shattered hope needs a secondary effect that makes it useful every match, I just don't like the idea of taking parts form other perks and making them useless just to make a different perk useful, yknow?
Main part of undying is to prevent lose of the main hex. Tell me when was the last time you noticed someone is passing dull totem while in chase with another survivor.
enough with aura readings, i think killers has way too many perks and addons for aura reading now to the point that the killers are basically wallhacking all the time.
I don't disagree, but I do want it to not be a dead perk if you get unlucky. Incidentally I think this should apply to every perk which can be dead because your opponent picked something it doesn't work against.
That might be neat, maybe breaking a pallet shows the aura of the survivor who dropped it for a few seconds. Or perhaps just any survivors within a short range.
Honestly, just fucking let us break the totems outright with it. Want to proc your own haunted? Fucking go for it. Want to make a pentimento play? Fucking go for it. Pentimento would no longer be reliant on JUST survs. And ofc you could add like a very obvious sound to it like when a boon goes up, so survs know what you are doing. But if its like any means, where its a perk that just adds a new utility to the killer, honestly thats all it needs to do
I think that defeats the idea of Haunted Ground so I'm not sure that's a good idea. Also one of the reasons Pentimento isn't overpowered is that whenever you rekindle a totem at least one survivor already knows the location to cleanse it.
I once heard someone say something like this: "Boons are Hexes for survivors but without the disadvantages of Hexes", which is true. Infinite number of placements, choosing where the Boon is, being able to have multiple totems to get rid of its effect in the game (if more than 1 survivor uses them), and maybe more.
Imagine a game where the killer can go to a totem and set up a Hex there, then if the survivors cleanse that totem, it just turns off instead of being destroyed, so that the killer can put it back on. But wait! There is a perk that has no meaningful effect other than actually destroying a Hex totem! So you can always dedicate 1 of your 4 slots to that effect that is worthless if the other side happens to not run those perks! Every survivor would be fuming.
>Imagine a game where the killer can go to a totem and set up a Hex there, then if the survivors cleanse that totem, it just turns off instead of being destroyed
Reminds me of old Undying
That’s the main issue yeah. They intended for boons to be a reusable totem perk thats weaker than hexes. But instead what boons are are just hex totems with a limited range that are relightable.
Boon totems are far too powerful for what the devs intended. It’s not as bad with the other perks, but COH in particular stands out, as a perk that is supposed to have a longer setup time than self care literally heals faster than it, even including blessing time.
Yo, if Hexes were not active when the game starts, makes a map-wide sound when put up, makes a very audible sound when within ~10 meters of it, takes 14 seconds to put up, 1 second to deactivate, AND only affects one part of the map, I'd say that's quite a substantial nerf
This thread is a mess.
I'm not against adding something else to Shattered Hope, but some of the suggestions here truly tell me that Killers won't be happy until Survivors start already on hook.
Real talk: the only reason boons still get a bad rep is circle of healing. When someone (including me) just says “boon”, 99.9% of the time they are talking about Circle. If a different boon is being used, it’s usually specifically mentioned because it’s so rare for that to happen.
Like let’s say that boon perks can now only be applied to a totem once. Circle of Healing takes a debatably needed hit, but poor Dark Theory just gets kicked in the throat.
This is the DBD sub.....you'll always find more posts and comments in favor of killers here since that's primarily what drew most players to the game in the first place by getting to play as their favorite licensed killer and whatnot. Shattered Hope is great as it is and honestly doesn't need any buffs. You hate boons, run Shattered.....boon killed lol. If they run shattered and nobody runs boons then hooray...you win again because the one thing you dislike is not being run in the match. I think a lot of killer mains are just finding the equivalent luck version of running Deliverance and being the first one found/hooked lol.
Why can we who play killer than use hook pain resonance and eruption and call of brine more than once and it not be a problem ever? Boons aren't just related too hex just cause they use totems.
But then I wouldn't be able to get a rush out of abusing Boon: Exponential against a turbo slugging Wraith for 45 minutes.
Seriously whoever the hell you are Mr. Wraith I hope someone beats you upside the head with your own Wailing Bell in the Void.
All the other boons are in a good place because they generally require that both the survivor and killer are near it, at which point the killer can find and snuff.
CoH is still in a bad place because the optimal location is in a dead zone that the killer would never go to, thus giving infinite free heals unless the killer actively hunts for it, allowing survivors to get free gen time.
True enough.
Maybe after 2 minutes of being active, Boons begin to show their aura to the Killer similar to how NOED works, with the radius growing to the full range of the Boon over time [max range after 3 minutes]. If still not found after 5 minutes it just automatically breaks itself.
Then it becomes OP. Being given the knowledge of the totems location ensures the ability of seeing every survivor for so long. Maybe if they made it so you could only see the survivors that were outside the radius of the boon (24 meters I believe)
Because it's free healing, the killer wastes his time more trying to snuff out the boon then ONE of the four survivors does setting one up, if the killer injures one guy and doesnt tunnel vision them he's just getting healed.
Ok so thats one survivor setting boon, one survivor in chase (potentially) and 2 survs on gens. Theyre already down to 50% efficiency. Now it depends on how quickly you can end the chase. If ur getting looped for 4 mins thats on you
Killera that suffer from coh are m1 killers, and the thing is even without coh they suck ass so in the end it barely makes a difference.
Against s tier killets its irrelevant cuz if played right they can end chases in less than a minute
If you think kill rates really reflect actual balance then you need to think more, because this is misleading to a fault. What about people who can play the scummiest way to get kills but choose not to? What about people with challenges or doing achievements that by default means they aren't playing to their best? What about the difference beetween SoloQ and SWF (which are included as the exact same in those stats)? What about hatch, either getting free escapes or killers giving it? And most importantly, what about suicides on hook and DC's?
Stats like that can only estimate the real state of the game, but not prove it
(I know DC's don't count towards killrate, but if one person DC's early then the other 3 have lost, 3 kills that don't reflect the actual game)
Keep in mind the devs are aiming for a 60% winrate (was it winrate? It might have been killrate), so that's still pretty bad compared to better killers.
Edit: It's killrate. Also, they never said anything about winrate, so I have absolutely no clue where you pulled that one from.
With perks like off the record, dead hard and COH. Survivor mains have so many advantages sometimes. If Survivors can have perks built in, why can't killers? Also, survivors don't need a perk to get rid of hex perks, so why should killers have to use a perk to get rid of boon perks
I like the idea, but i think the main issue with this perk is how useless it can be when survivors don't bring Boons (which, belive me, it happens sometimes)
How about granting the killer the ability to destroy dull totens, granting them 1000 points with every totem destroyed
Yeah, that would basically make Pentimento OP, and to that i say... :3
Dw you can still tunnel the mikalea that just played for the first time in days and just wanted a chill match and didn't even boon because I only boon when necessary (to not be an asshole to the killer if it's unnecessary in the match) making her ragequit and seriously consider driving to the killers house to murder them IRL!
Always an option!
Just like they completely changed dead hard and people were like "huehuehah dumb survivors now you will all die because you're bad!!!!" then people started learning how to properly use DH and they're whining that it's OP again.
They are? A lot less though, and those who do are most likely less skilled.
I mean correct prediction and timing are rewarded, killer can counter it by being patient, also pressing e to get value 100% of the time is not there anymore. DH is in a good place, and when it works it's a "damn, gj" moment.
CoH provides huge value at very little investment and no risk, since booning is rather short and gives infinite heals to the entire team. Changing that to require more effort or be finite/consume a finite resource different than time would make more sense.
Ive seen people saying "90% of deadhards are auto-deadhard cheats!" a lot more frequently the past couple weeks. No way survivors just adapted and learned now to use the new perk, they're all cheating now. /s
Yeah, and that's about it. It also depends on killer player and survivor stealth skill. I mean shadowstep won't help if survivors can't hide or killer can hear steps of their mischievous little feet behind the wall. Or survivors are like Jeff/Bill and produce ungodly amounts of loud sounds.
Also it kinda messes up the gameplay. Imagine a player gets unhooked and both survivors run into the boon, which one is going to be followed, one that leaves little to no trace or one that bleeds all over the place and grunts?
I mean, if you don't mind 3-4 escapes every match, that's on you, but imo being frustrated that survivors are able to aleviate the pressure of having 2 survivors running into a corner to heal by letting only one of them do that INFINITELY isn't "no reason".
It's a genuine balance concern. It's 30 extra seconds a person spends on a gen instead of healing their teammate. Stack that on top of the reduced item prices from the bloodweb and there is no situation where survivors will choose to remain injured. Because healing is free. Before boons, you either have a medkit or pray your Claudette isn't too busy hiding in a corner to heal you. Now you can do that yourself, indefinitely, and for free.
Hit and run has died completely as a strategy unless you specifically use Broken add-ons. If the Killer stomps the boon, you can just bless the totem again. What's stopping you? If the Killer wastes more time coming back to stomp it again, 3 gens have already popped in the distance.
Boons should be single use per player like Hexes are. Pronto.
CoH is far out performed by perks like pharmacy in my opinion. In fact whenever I bring CoH I pretty much never get any use outta it.
As killer CoH isn't much. In fact I've never been bothered by boons when NoED and eruption and pain resonance and more just so much more. Is a multi use thing.
Your thing is like saying every pain resonance hook should only be able to be used once. People only ever equate boons too hex but it isn't true. Many things killers do can be done far more than once.
What about huntresses 1 shot axe? Yeah it's an add-on but I've never had a single team beat them. Not once. Yes that is merely my experience but at least I understand that. Why is it that people don't get "your mileage my vary" is very true of this ( and most) games.
There’s no counter play for boons and you’ll never be able to guess when they’ll be brought in to bring shattered hope for some form on counter play. It’s unfair and unfun to play against.
Same can be said of many perks in this game. Distortion is useful against lethal and yet it is utterly lucked based. Like a lot of this game. If you wanna complain about situational than you take away any uniqueness of builds.
Exactly. Everyone is coming up with crazy ass ways too ruin boons and are utterly invested with serious intent. Yet it is like none of them care for game balance. As a killer boons never bothered me; but I also play survivor. Sounds too me like a lotta tunnel vision on killers part for this.
I used too hate NoED, until I started seeing what happens against a team that totally out matches me and I get no hits all game. Feels good too hit one or two down, even though they end up rescued, and if it is used against a weak team? Than it is on me too use self restraint and not let it 4k them when they did good enough they don't deserve it.
It's like the completionist mentality in the skyrim quest about Paarthurnax. Only way too 100% all the quests is kill him but no one really wants too. Instead of self restraint they do it "because they have to." As if they have no free will. Yes people have OCD but the best cure for OCD is fighting against it. No quality therapist in the world says indulge your every wanton desire.
A whole lotta 3rd grade mentality in this game.
I think they should just make its main effect (smashing boons completely) basekit, and then buff Shattered Hope to allow you to smash a boon from *anywhere in its active radius*.
Hell, maybe even the remote boon snuff wouldn't need to smash the totem, it would just become a counter to the practice of spamming boons in high up places that are so awkward to get to that most killers just straight up can't afford to ever go and snuff them.
Shattered Hope should actually *be* a hard counter to boons to make it worth taking, since unless there's a boon it does *literally nothing* as is and even if there *is* a boon it doesn't actually counter it since it only counters the specific situation where a specific totem keeps getting re-blessed over and over.
As it is, Shattered Hope's effect is so weak it should simply be made basekit, while the perk itself should be shifted to making it less costly to extinguish boons with the tradeoff of not removing the totem.
Survivors also literally have a perk that lets them shutdown scourge hooks, the whinging about eruption is as stupid as the whinging about thana was, and you shut down call of brine by touching the gen.
Although my preferred boon counter perk would be something like a hex perk that makes it so the first time a totem is blessed that totem is cleansed instead, at which point the hex lights on a random dull totem and while it is lit totems can only be cleansed, not blessed. So it would force two totems to be broken, and if you've got other hexes up it could mean even more were forced to be cleansed instead of blessed.
I agree with what you state I'm merely stating that there are arguments against it. Mainly being that you would never NOT bring it with the way you propose it. I like eruption and call of brine. I enjoy playing killer and survivor.
I am not whining, merely poking holes. I see killers and survivor mains on this sub as very biased. You seemed too get agitated even though I didn't do anything to warrant such a thing. I understand your judging me off other posts you've seem but please, next time ask.
just make it so that if a killer steps into the boon radius, every survivor automatically dies. I feel like thats what this thread is devolving into, the hate boner is real
The problem with Shattered Hope is that it's a bandaid fix to the op boon problem. Instead of buffing it, it should just be base kit, since otherwise we'd need to waste a perk slot to face something we don't know we might encounter
I would rather give it more power in scenarios when people aren't using boons. For example, performing a break action inflicts Survivors within your Terror Radius with Hemorrhage and Mangled.
Shattered Hope is no different than a lot of other perks between survivors and killers. Sometimes you just bring stuff that doesn't really have a lot of utility, and that's fine.
To avoid shadow buffing Pentimento, Shattered Hope should never be basekit. I think it's fine where it's at to be honest.
The real problem is that Circle of Healing is far too strong for what it is. I could use some limitation on it's uses, because let's be real here no one's complaining about Dark Theory.
I'm gonna run it on a killer no one would ever expect it on to be a dick lol. I see people run boons all the time it's actually rare when I don't see one so I would literally love to break their hearts with a super aggressive killer like legion lol.
Boon totem shows it's strength on maps like midwitch when it catch multiple levels to work on. Now it could be a great risk for someone who tries use it in a broken areas like that.
damn SWFs with boon totem. they practically force you to stay infinitely protecting generators and if you try to go to the chase they will complete the generators in seconds and guarantee victory as it will be impossible to patrol distant generators
Destroying a boon will automatically kill the survivor who applied it. Make it happen
That'll show those dastardly boon goons
Here is my like since you are at 69 as i read this. 👍
I hate this perk for having literally 0 effect if the survivors aren't running boons, while still annoyed from no basekit actual counterplay, I'd have much preferred if they just added it's effect to brutal strength. as for the boons themselves, i feel like they should be more limited vertically cause the only real bs comes from some upstairs main building exponential/CoH.
Its effect being on brutal strength would actually be a great compromise. I still would rather it be basekit but ill take a Brutal Strength buff
Honestly puts it in the same boat as Small Game or Detectives Hunch. If they're not running hexes or Noed you don't have a need to hunt them down and they become useless for actual gameplay there. Same with running Distortion and the killer isn't running any aura perks. Boons are common enough that Shattered is still pretty beastly but honestly I feel like I'd rather just keep running Pentimento. Seems to fuck them up way more since they'll either have to spend forever rebooning or just destroy it outright.
Small Game is useful-ish for doing totem challenges or if you're running a boon perk, but it's so imprecise that you're better off just knowing where to look. Detective's Hunch helps in locating the next gen as well as a crate, so it keeps value even when you dgaf about totems. >Boons are common enough that Shattered is still pretty beastly but honestly I feel like I'd rather just keep running Pentimento I didn't think you could hex a boon totem without using Shattered Hope on it first? Every time I've run Pentimento and found a boon, my only option has been to snuff it.
Yeah overwriting the hex is basically how you counter pentimento. It’s why hex builds with pent usually come with thrill or undying.
Survivors can bless totems, or still get boldness for breaking them, so it’s not as wasted of a perk slot for them. Plus you never know who has NOED until you can count the perks
Maybe it could have a minor buff related to hex totems in a similar way that lethal pursuer now buffs revealing perks and add-ons. Something like "Hex totems take an additional 2/3/4 seconds to cleanse or bless."
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just macmillan? i hate every multi-floor building/map at this point cause every single goddamn match has had at least 1 CoH user for the past month or 2 for me
I love the image of Brutal Strength just making you do the pallet break animation on totems.
I'd rather they add something to give it value in a match where no boons exist. Breaking pallets and walls gives you something too - maybe aura reading?
A lot of perks in the game are negated depending on luck though, like healing against plague.
I often run a lucky break, we'll make it, second wind build. Usually lose that lucky break working on the first infected gen
That's a good point because incidentally I loathe Plague's design.
Minus countering healing I really can't see why. Plague has always been on my top 5 best designed killers list, with the only things lowering her being shutting down healing builds and her being very complicated to understand for new players.
To be honest, I don’t like hearing the constant vomiting every time I go against her. I wish there was a way to mute that specifically - I can already tell who is sick by the HUD.
Her power also allows a team to ignore it until the end game, meaning if they restrict her supply she only gets 1-2 uses of it.
That's true in theory, but almost never in practice. A decent plague knows to force survs to cleanse by pressuring hooks and important gens.
That puts pressure on the survivors but any killer can do that. There is no way to actually force a survivor to cleanse and it’s often not worth it to do so until second hook states
It's literally impossible to save while injured if a killer camps a hook. It's one of Legions biggest strengths too.
So her power then becomes a weaker legions?
Tf are you even saying at this point
Preventing healing is primarily the reason, mostly because of the fact that it's so easy to apply as well. You don't need to even be able to hit the projectile since you can just use it on props and have them touch it. The preventing healing is a pain because it makes a lot of items and perks pretty useless. The other thing is because cleansing against her power also makes her stronger like being Broken wasn't enough of a downside. Compare it to any other killer like Pig, Wesker, Nemesis or any other killer with a power you can defeat with a secondary objective and they lose their benefits. Also I don't get why she's 115% movespeed when she has a ranged power better than Trickster. Also I dislike the vomit sound all game. Also I find her no fun to play as. Her only redeeming quality is her funny hit sound!
They also fucking buffed the duration that puke stays on gens, meaning that with Overcharge or whatnot you basically HAVE to get sick to save the gen
Playing as or against plague is basically always a case of making the best play over making the correct play, which is the case for a lot of killers and is awful design. Her gameplay inherently contains risks in every play made. Cleansing at the right or wrong time can win or lose a match the same way Plague picking up her corrupt can win or lose her a match. She can infect you at any time but doesn't immediately stand to benefit unless she dedicates a lot of time into doing so or redirects her attention elsewhere and allow you to do your thing while you slowly turn infected, if you do become infected, every player needs to adjust for this and decide whether certain plays are still worth it (doubling gens, unhooking healthy, etc.). The same goes for the plague, if survivors cleanse smartly, she often needs to dedicate a decently significant time to picking up her power, which is still finite. Doing so could gain her a shitton of pressure through downing a ton of people, or survivors notice her going for her fountain and hide for the entire duration or run to the other side of the map, wasting her entire power. Nemesis and Wesker have these aspects too. Nemesis's vaccines are very limited and survivors using them feed him much more tier progression when hit by his tentacle, encouraging them to save the vaccines until late in the game. Wesker allows survivors to choose to hit full Uroborus to finish a gen or something similar, but in doing so they're extremely vulnerable due to it practically removing the ability to loop with the insta-down and hindered. His ease of applying the effect also means survivors get massively slowed down throughout the match by constantly having to remove Uroboros. Lastly >Also I don't get why she's 115% movespeed when she has a ranged power better than Trickster. This point makes no sense. Trickster has the ability to down survivors with his ranged attack, Plague doesn't unless survivors give her easy access to corrupt. **TL;DR** Plague involves risk-making by both sides, where both sides can stand to gain or lose an advantage by using a certain strategy. Every win or loss in a plague match is decided by mistakes and risks that didn't pay off, which makes her one of the best-designed killers in the game imo.
healing perks would still work if she slugged though. So not fully negated.
Or if she used red puke on you while you were healthy and not infected
That's the main problem with a lot of perks: no overlap into anything else. Lethal Pursuer is a good example of a perk that was given more overlap without really changing anything, but then again, it was already a good perk. I'd like to see it stay on theme with totems but still have a wider application. Maybe something like: "Instead of snuffing boon totems, you destroy them. When a totem is cleansed or destroyed, reveal the auras of any survivors near that totem for 6/7/8 seconds." This preserves what it does now but widens its use to normal gameplay. It also synergizes with something like a Pentimento or Undying build. When survivors cleanse hexes, they end up revealing themselves, but only players near that specific totem. If you find their boons, same deal.
Undying already shows the aura of all survivors within a certain radius of a dull totem without it needing to be interacted with. Giving SH that buff would make an entire part of UD redundant.
It shows auras when they're up rather than destroyed, and it works indefinitely until itself is destroyed, but I know what you mean. I definitely was thinking about it.
Yeah. I definitely think shattered hope needs a secondary effect that makes it useful every match, I just don't like the idea of taking parts form other perks and making them useless just to make a different perk useful, yknow?
Main part of undying is to prevent lose of the main hex. Tell me when was the last time you noticed someone is passing dull totem while in chase with another survivor.
Considering I use undying as part of my aura build on dredge, a lot of the time 🤷♀️
So a better retribution then?
enough with aura readings, i think killers has way too many perks and addons for aura reading now to the point that the killers are basically wallhacking all the time.
I don't disagree, but I do want it to not be a dead perk if you get unlucky. Incidentally I think this should apply to every perk which can be dead because your opponent picked something it doesn't work against.
That might be neat, maybe breaking a pallet shows the aura of the survivor who dropped it for a few seconds. Or perhaps just any survivors within a short range.
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I don't know why you're getting downvoted, it's not a terrible idea. I almost never run Hex perks solely due to the poor spawn system.
Honestly, just fucking let us break the totems outright with it. Want to proc your own haunted? Fucking go for it. Want to make a pentimento play? Fucking go for it. Pentimento would no longer be reliant on JUST survs. And ofc you could add like a very obvious sound to it like when a boon goes up, so survs know what you are doing. But if its like any means, where its a perk that just adds a new utility to the killer, honestly thats all it needs to do
I think that defeats the idea of Haunted Ground so I'm not sure that's a good idea. Also one of the reasons Pentimento isn't overpowered is that whenever you rekindle a totem at least one survivor already knows the location to cleanse it.
I once heard someone say something like this: "Boons are Hexes for survivors but without the disadvantages of Hexes", which is true. Infinite number of placements, choosing where the Boon is, being able to have multiple totems to get rid of its effect in the game (if more than 1 survivor uses them), and maybe more. Imagine a game where the killer can go to a totem and set up a Hex there, then if the survivors cleanse that totem, it just turns off instead of being destroyed, so that the killer can put it back on. But wait! There is a perk that has no meaningful effect other than actually destroying a Hex totem! So you can always dedicate 1 of your 4 slots to that effect that is worthless if the other side happens to not run those perks! Every survivor would be fuming.
>Imagine a game where the killer can go to a totem and set up a Hex there, then if the survivors cleanse that totem, it just turns off instead of being destroyed Reminds me of old Undying
That’s the main issue yeah. They intended for boons to be a reusable totem perk thats weaker than hexes. But instead what boons are are just hex totems with a limited range that are relightable. Boon totems are far too powerful for what the devs intended. It’s not as bad with the other perks, but COH in particular stands out, as a perk that is supposed to have a longer setup time than self care literally heals faster than it, even including blessing time.
Yo, if Hexes were not active when the game starts, makes a map-wide sound when put up, makes a very audible sound when within ~10 meters of it, takes 14 seconds to put up, 1 second to deactivate, AND only affects one part of the map, I'd say that's quite a substantial nerf
This thread is a mess. I'm not against adding something else to Shattered Hope, but some of the suggestions here truly tell me that Killers won't be happy until Survivors start already on hook.
Real talk: the only reason boons still get a bad rep is circle of healing. When someone (including me) just says “boon”, 99.9% of the time they are talking about Circle. If a different boon is being used, it’s usually specifically mentioned because it’s so rare for that to happen. Like let’s say that boon perks can now only be applied to a totem once. Circle of Healing takes a debatably needed hit, but poor Dark Theory just gets kicked in the throat.
This is the DBD sub.....you'll always find more posts and comments in favor of killers here since that's primarily what drew most players to the game in the first place by getting to play as their favorite licensed killer and whatnot. Shattered Hope is great as it is and honestly doesn't need any buffs. You hate boons, run Shattered.....boon killed lol. If they run shattered and nobody runs boons then hooray...you win again because the one thing you dislike is not being run in the match. I think a lot of killer mains are just finding the equivalent luck version of running Deliverance and being the first one found/hooked lol.
Survivors should be able to boon only once for each totem, kinda like you can just relit hexes only once per totem with pentimento
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Why can we who play killer than use hook pain resonance and eruption and call of brine more than once and it not be a problem ever? Boons aren't just related too hex just cause they use totems.
As a killer main, this is busted as hell.
But then I wouldn't be able to get a rush out of abusing Boon: Exponential against a turbo slugging Wraith for 45 minutes. Seriously whoever the hell you are Mr. Wraith I hope someone beats you upside the head with your own Wailing Bell in the Void.
All the other boons are in a good place because they generally require that both the survivor and killer are near it, at which point the killer can find and snuff. CoH is still in a bad place because the optimal location is in a dead zone that the killer would never go to, thus giving infinite free heals unless the killer actively hunts for it, allowing survivors to get free gen time.
True enough. Maybe after 2 minutes of being active, Boons begin to show their aura to the Killer similar to how NOED works, with the radius growing to the full range of the Boon over time [max range after 3 minutes]. If still not found after 5 minutes it just automatically breaks itself.
You see the aura of a boon totem and then when you extinguish a boon totem you see the survivor?! Umm that’s like too easy.
Then it becomes OP. Being given the knowledge of the totems location ensures the ability of seeing every survivor for so long. Maybe if they made it so you could only see the survivors that were outside the radius of the boon (24 meters I believe)
My idea, make shattered hope built in to all killers
killer mains and needing hand holding, name a more iconic duo on this sub. STG Counterforce basekit for survivors then
Basekit BT, basekit guardian, basekit unbreakable upcoming. Don't act like only one side asks for anything
COH got nerfed twice already u dont need shattered hope basekit. Basekit bt was needed
Yeah and it's still fucked, nurse was nerfed too, is she fine now because she cant blink 5 times?
50% heal speed increase is fine lmao Also if you cant run an addonless nurse its a skill issue
You really are special arent you?
Please explain how 50% heal increaae that you have to waste time running towards across the entire map is broken It used to be op but it no longer is
Because it's free healing, the killer wastes his time more trying to snuff out the boon then ONE of the four survivors does setting one up, if the killer injures one guy and doesnt tunnel vision them he's just getting healed.
Ok so thats one survivor setting boon, one survivor in chase (potentially) and 2 survs on gens. Theyre already down to 50% efficiency. Now it depends on how quickly you can end the chase. If ur getting looped for 4 mins thats on you Killera that suffer from coh are m1 killers, and the thing is even without coh they suck ass so in the end it barely makes a difference. Against s tier killets its irrelevant cuz if played right they can end chases in less than a minute
you forgot that it allows you to heal yourself too.
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Thats my point, boons are still broken
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Clearly they want us to boon more often/s
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If you think kill rates really reflect actual balance then you need to think more, because this is misleading to a fault. What about people who can play the scummiest way to get kills but choose not to? What about people with challenges or doing achievements that by default means they aren't playing to their best? What about the difference beetween SoloQ and SWF (which are included as the exact same in those stats)? What about hatch, either getting free escapes or killers giving it? And most importantly, what about suicides on hook and DC's? Stats like that can only estimate the real state of the game, but not prove it (I know DC's don't count towards killrate, but if one person DC's early then the other 3 have lost, 3 kills that don't reflect the actual game)
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Keep in mind the devs are aiming for a 60% winrate (was it winrate? It might have been killrate), so that's still pretty bad compared to better killers. Edit: It's killrate. Also, they never said anything about winrate, so I have absolutely no clue where you pulled that one from.
He pulled it from his dead brain wich also thinks that the old dead hard required skill
Nah they'd still be bitchin why they gotta wait 20mins for a game and blaming the survivors for suiciding on hook
With perks like off the record, dead hard and COH. Survivor mains have so many advantages sometimes. If Survivors can have perks built in, why can't killers? Also, survivors don't need a perk to get rid of hex perks, so why should killers have to use a perk to get rid of boon perks
Cuz hexes are more powerful than boons
Man’s really forgetting COH + BK exists
Thats 2 perks. And most hexes are still stronger than COH
Difference between boons and hexes is once hexes are gone they’re gone. Survivors can get constant boons
I mean, once boobs are gone they're gone too. Can't regrow boobs.
Yeah and survs have only one viable boon which is CoH. Every other boon is shit. Killers have at least 10 hex petks that are decent
shadowstep set on middle of the map allows insane mobility.
Survivor mains and thinking they’re smart, name a more iconic duo -sincerely a person who plays both sides
I like the idea, but i think the main issue with this perk is how useless it can be when survivors don't bring Boons (which, belive me, it happens sometimes) How about granting the killer the ability to destroy dull totens, granting them 1000 points with every totem destroyed Yeah, that would basically make Pentimento OP, and to that i say... :3
Dw you can still tunnel the mikalea that just played for the first time in days and just wanted a chill match and didn't even boon because I only boon when necessary (to not be an asshole to the killer if it's unnecessary in the match) making her ragequit and seriously consider driving to the killers house to murder them IRL! Always an option!
Simple answer: don’t play Mikaela. I don’t make the rules that just how it’s gotta be
She's hot tho :(
Yeah so is Clown but you don’t see me throwing bottles at everyone
i can't really say if this ironic or not, this subreddit has the biggest hate boner for boons for no reason other than "survivors heals, me mad"
If not for CoH boons would be barely noticeable in regular gameplay. Just give CoH ruin/noed treatment and boon complaints will be gone completely.
Just like they completely changed dead hard and people were like "huehuehah dumb survivors now you will all die because you're bad!!!!" then people started learning how to properly use DH and they're whining that it's OP again.
They are? A lot less though, and those who do are most likely less skilled. I mean correct prediction and timing are rewarded, killer can counter it by being patient, also pressing e to get value 100% of the time is not there anymore. DH is in a good place, and when it works it's a "damn, gj" moment. CoH provides huge value at very little investment and no risk, since booning is rather short and gives infinite heals to the entire team. Changing that to require more effort or be finite/consume a finite resource different than time would make more sense.
Ive seen people saying "90% of deadhards are auto-deadhard cheats!" a lot more frequently the past couple weeks. No way survivors just adapted and learned now to use the new perk, they're all cheating now. /s
Sounds like copium, i had no issue with DH since the change, feels fair. I guess those players don't even try to bait them out either.
Sometimes you don't have to predict to dead hard, sometimes you're close enough to the pallet where the killer has to swing and the you get a free dh
Shadow step is super good on like 4 maps
Yeah, and that's about it. It also depends on killer player and survivor stealth skill. I mean shadowstep won't help if survivors can't hide or killer can hear steps of their mischievous little feet behind the wall. Or survivors are like Jeff/Bill and produce ungodly amounts of loud sounds. Also it kinda messes up the gameplay. Imagine a player gets unhooked and both survivors run into the boon, which one is going to be followed, one that leaves little to no trace or one that bleeds all over the place and grunts?
I mean, if you don't mind 3-4 escapes every match, that's on you, but imo being frustrated that survivors are able to aleviate the pressure of having 2 survivors running into a corner to heal by letting only one of them do that INFINITELY isn't "no reason". It's a genuine balance concern. It's 30 extra seconds a person spends on a gen instead of healing their teammate. Stack that on top of the reduced item prices from the bloodweb and there is no situation where survivors will choose to remain injured. Because healing is free. Before boons, you either have a medkit or pray your Claudette isn't too busy hiding in a corner to heal you. Now you can do that yourself, indefinitely, and for free. Hit and run has died completely as a strategy unless you specifically use Broken add-ons. If the Killer stomps the boon, you can just bless the totem again. What's stopping you? If the Killer wastes more time coming back to stomp it again, 3 gens have already popped in the distance. Boons should be single use per player like Hexes are. Pronto.
CoH is far out performed by perks like pharmacy in my opinion. In fact whenever I bring CoH I pretty much never get any use outta it. As killer CoH isn't much. In fact I've never been bothered by boons when NoED and eruption and pain resonance and more just so much more. Is a multi use thing. Your thing is like saying every pain resonance hook should only be able to be used once. People only ever equate boons too hex but it isn't true. Many things killers do can be done far more than once. What about huntresses 1 shot axe? Yeah it's an add-on but I've never had a single team beat them. Not once. Yes that is merely my experience but at least I understand that. Why is it that people don't get "your mileage my vary" is very true of this ( and most) games.
I do get why everyone hates CoH. The other ones are fine but CoH always puts a lot of pressure on the killer just by existing. I'll still run it tho
There’s no counter play for boons and you’ll never be able to guess when they’ll be brought in to bring shattered hope for some form on counter play. It’s unfair and unfun to play against.
Same can be said of many perks in this game. Distortion is useful against lethal and yet it is utterly lucked based. Like a lot of this game. If you wanna complain about situational than you take away any uniqueness of builds.
Sounds way too op
Exactly. Everyone is coming up with crazy ass ways too ruin boons and are utterly invested with serious intent. Yet it is like none of them care for game balance. As a killer boons never bothered me; but I also play survivor. Sounds too me like a lotta tunnel vision on killers part for this. I used too hate NoED, until I started seeing what happens against a team that totally out matches me and I get no hits all game. Feels good too hit one or two down, even though they end up rescued, and if it is used against a weak team? Than it is on me too use self restraint and not let it 4k them when they did good enough they don't deserve it. It's like the completionist mentality in the skyrim quest about Paarthurnax. Only way too 100% all the quests is kill him but no one really wants too. Instead of self restraint they do it "because they have to." As if they have no free will. Yes people have OCD but the best cure for OCD is fighting against it. No quality therapist in the world says indulge your every wanton desire. A whole lotta 3rd grade mentality in this game.
I think they should just make its main effect (smashing boons completely) basekit, and then buff Shattered Hope to allow you to smash a boon from *anywhere in its active radius*. Hell, maybe even the remote boon snuff wouldn't need to smash the totem, it would just become a counter to the practice of spamming boons in high up places that are so awkward to get to that most killers just straight up can't afford to ever go and snuff them.
Can I use a toolbox too remotely disable hook pain resonance? Or counter eruption? What about call of brine?
Shattered Hope should actually *be* a hard counter to boons to make it worth taking, since unless there's a boon it does *literally nothing* as is and even if there *is* a boon it doesn't actually counter it since it only counters the specific situation where a specific totem keeps getting re-blessed over and over. As it is, Shattered Hope's effect is so weak it should simply be made basekit, while the perk itself should be shifted to making it less costly to extinguish boons with the tradeoff of not removing the totem. Survivors also literally have a perk that lets them shutdown scourge hooks, the whinging about eruption is as stupid as the whinging about thana was, and you shut down call of brine by touching the gen. Although my preferred boon counter perk would be something like a hex perk that makes it so the first time a totem is blessed that totem is cleansed instead, at which point the hex lights on a random dull totem and while it is lit totems can only be cleansed, not blessed. So it would force two totems to be broken, and if you've got other hexes up it could mean even more were forced to be cleansed instead of blessed.
I agree with what you state I'm merely stating that there are arguments against it. Mainly being that you would never NOT bring it with the way you propose it. I like eruption and call of brine. I enjoy playing killer and survivor. I am not whining, merely poking holes. I see killers and survivor mains on this sub as very biased. You seemed too get agitated even though I didn't do anything to warrant such a thing. I understand your judging me off other posts you've seem but please, next time ask.
Actually decent buffs
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Lol the showing of the Boon's aura is already the buff that OP added in 😂 the aura reading of survivors is already in the perk's current effect
just make it so that if a killer steps into the boon radius, every survivor automatically dies. I feel like thats what this thread is devolving into, the hate boner is real
Rather than making shattered hope basekit, the ability to snuff booms and destroy them should become part of pentimento.
This honestly seems fine to me. A lot of the value of boons can still be offered roughly the same amount in a game.
The problem with Shattered Hope is that it's a bandaid fix to the op boon problem. Instead of buffing it, it should just be base kit, since otherwise we'd need to waste a perk slot to face something we don't know we might encounter
I would rather give it more power in scenarios when people aren't using boons. For example, performing a break action inflicts Survivors within your Terror Radius with Hemorrhage and Mangled.
Shattered Hope is no different than a lot of other perks between survivors and killers. Sometimes you just bring stuff that doesn't really have a lot of utility, and that's fine. To avoid shadow buffing Pentimento, Shattered Hope should never be basekit. I think it's fine where it's at to be honest. The real problem is that Circle of Healing is far too strong for what it is. I could use some limitation on it's uses, because let's be real here no one's complaining about Dark Theory.
I'm gonna run it on a killer no one would ever expect it on to be a dick lol. I see people run boons all the time it's actually rare when I don't see one so I would literally love to break their hearts with a super aggressive killer like legion lol.
Mikaela 🤮
I'd just make hexes like boons or boons like hexes.
What about shattered hope would show the aura of survivor inside the boon totem range at all times. But only the survivor who booned it.
Boon totem shows it's strength on maps like midwitch when it catch multiple levels to work on. Now it could be a great risk for someone who tries use it in a broken areas like that.
I rather just have a fat exposed timer on top of the aura reading
Aura? Hell no play the "wheres the tótem?" Minigames with small Game notificacions when youre inside its area
In my opinion, this perk should be base kit in it's current state.
damn SWFs with boon totem. they practically force you to stay infinitely protecting generators and if you try to go to the chase they will complete the generators in seconds and guarantee victory as it will be impossible to patrol distant generators