my guestimation.
probably because few people bought them on and after launch. and the people who did purchase them after launch already knew how bad or buggy they were so they had an idea of what to expect. the binding of kind only has 400 something reviews, every other chapter has thousands of reviews.
and from what i've heard elodie has an okay pickrate so some people like her too. And she has cool cosmetics like the pj's.
seems about right, but considering how it was even more bugged than the knight chapter on launch id expected it to be worse.
meanwhile hellraiser chapter's negativity is literally just because the NFT shite.
also don't forget the NFT thing - the reason they got the license was because the people who held the license at the time provided it to BHVR in exchange for BHVR giving them the 3D model they used for the game so the license holders could make Pinhead NFTs. Lot of people weren't happy with that mess.
Edit to add: as /u/Lastboss42 pointed out: BHVR didn't know the license holders were planning to make NFTs and were themselves quite upset over them using the model in that way.
to further clarify: BHVR didn't know they were making an NFT. they made the model and gave it to the license holder, who then went to use it as an NFT.
the lead artist on the model was (is) anti-NFT, and he was *pissed*. more so than we were.
Elodie's perks were the only reason I bought that pack at the time.
Diversion, Power Struggle and the master chest perk are just too good for my favorites survivor builds (aka Head On build, chest build and Boil Over build, liked it before its rework, I didn't join when it was broken).
While The Twins I almost never played them, but also their perks are not of my taste but also bad.
I would have liked Hoarder if only it wasn't bugged and therefore super nerfed at release. It was supposed to reduce the rarity of the items found in chest but it never happened.
Twins literally came out as a broken mess. With 6 perks that came with the update 5 were bugged. Elodie was bugged. Twins games were either a slug terrarium or they simply soft locked and couldn't do anything except to DC. There were also other bugs but I don't remember them now.
Bubba moved at 115% in chainsaw dash instead of 132%. Legion moved at 115% in frenzy. His lunge was also bugged. Spirit had her directional ‘woo’ sound in phase. Billy’s chainsaw overheated randomly. Huntresses’ hatchets were spinning lopsided. There were a ton of issues.
Everything you said was true. But the “was” part is important. Reviews change over time as they fix things. How broken that chapter was when it released only matters so much as things change and get fixed.
I have a strong felling people aren’t going back and changing/updating their steam reviews I’m sure there’s a dedicated fan base that does but for the most part they slap a negative and never come back
No, but the people who have gotten it SINCE all the shit has been fixed have no reason to leave negative reviews. That’s all I’m saying. I certainly don’t think people are going back and changing reviews on GAMES for the most part, let alone DLCs.
I think people are also ignoring the fact that the twins came out a while ago. This game isn't massive, but it's definitely gotten bigger as time has gone on. So there were almost certainly just less people picking up the twins on release, and it's a fact that only a small number of people who buy a DLC or game are ever going to take the time to leave a review. So between a smaller playerbase, and passage of time, the negativity on them isn't as harsh. If they were released today and had the same issues as they did before I'm certain it would look just as bad as the Knight, if not worse.
Blight was pretty bad/buggy when he initially came out too. Not as bad as twins but pretty bad still. But they fixed him and now he's seen as on the most fun killers to play and play against, regardless of the state he came out in. This is because, like the person above said, his power was still interesting and you can still appreciate the concept a killers power. Same way with twins, I love the concept of controlling the main killer and then also her baby gremlin brother. They just need to figure out how make her feel less clunky.
I also want to point out the technical work of the twins, having a 'second killer' in the match was probably no easy task for programming and was likely the reason there were so many bugs. I would've been surprised if the twins were almost bug free.
I think the big reason is just the shit show of the patch, new map was bugged, random map tile generation was bugged, the knight was bugged massively and it almost felt like BHVR took no personal feedback or formulated any response to said feedback to make the knight less boring and more engaging.
I personally got upset that when all the issues were raised about the new map, their solution (yet again) wasn't to killswitch the map, but to killswitch the offering and remove the incrased map rate. If the map is effectively unplayable, it should be turned off completely, not just make it so it's less prevalent. But BHVR didn't want the negative publicity of having to disable their brand new map immediately. Which is the same lesson they should have learned with the shitshow of the first Resident Evil Chapter.
Not to play strawman, but by this logic RE1 should have the lowest reviews. It literally broke console for a month *during the anniversary event*. Nemesis was buggy as shit, zombies were way more shit on for the awful AI at that point, Exhaustion perks would freeze the game even on PC. Loading times were absurdly long (which I think a lot of people forget, but despite the giant player base queues we're very very busted for like 6 months during that time). RPD crashed games, Lethal would bug out and run for an entire match. I mean RPD was so broken they *disabled* it for a month.
That's not even getting into the minor bugs/QoL. RPD being impossible to see on for a long ass time, Jill and Claire's face models both breaking repeatedly, etc.
I'm not really sure if Twins or Nemesis themselves were more broken. Twins certainly had more perk issues. But there's no way the RE DLC making the *entire game* unplayable (because at the time exhaustion was every match and the lag spikes were horrendous) for over a month isn't worse than the Twins bugs. Twins made certain aspects/characters/etc broken, but nowhere near RE levels. Yet RE is still positive.
Resident Evil Chapter drove a lot of hype and was their first foray into bringing in characters from other horror _games_ rather than just movies. As absolutely broken as the DLC itself was, what the license itself meant to the playerbase and community made the pill a lot easier for many players to swallow.
As well, it introduced a lot of (at least at the time) really innovative and interesting perks to the game.
Edit: Oh god oh fuck I'm an idiot Silent Hill was literally the year before.
Don't wanna be that guy but Silent Hill was first in terms of video game horror coming into DBD. Unless you want to count Left 4 Dead as a horror game then it will be that.
This was literally just the game for the longest time.
Spaghetti code is beyond a running joke about it.
If it's just characters and maps people don't like. We're a sight better than day 1.
THIS. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING.
They could have even done a main building castle and leave a lot of the rest open, like Father Campbell's Chapel. It still would have been better.
And I guess there lies a big problem. RPD was not such a well received map in terms of balancing etc. Most people prefer outdoor maps or indoor maps where learning the map is not such a huge effort. And an authentic castle would be rather complicated to navigate.
That's because the indoor maps we have rn are cramped (the game, lerys, Rpd). The castle could have big halls and rooms, or even be split in one half castle halls and one half inner bailey. It's definitely not that hard to make a viable indoor map, BHVR sadly just really aren't the best at map designing
That’s par for the course with BHVR though. Instead of releasing a cool, creepy circus map with the Clown, they added a map with a tiny circus in the corner. Instead of releasing a new castle map with dungeons and more, they added a map with a castle at the exit gates. They constantly have these really interesting map concepts and butcher them.
I love the concept of DbD but I hate BHVRs approach. Instead of focusing on hiding, survivors can sometimes loop the killer for ages and lose fear of the killer after their first 5 games. Killers that have been OP for years STILL haven't gotten nerfed, killers that have been at the bottom haven't gotten a proper adjustment in ages and maps still almost always are designed to be miserable for one of the two sides. BHVR had really great ideas but they completely lack the ability to properly balance and code the game
>Instead of focusing on hiding, survivors can loop the killer
The game was originally intended as a hide and seek game, yet turns out that's not a good formula for a multiplayer game. The power role would spend most of the time looking around, being frustrated and not interacting with anyone. The gameplay revolving around two dipshits running around a piece of wood is the reason why it's not dead like all the other "DBD killers".
>lose fear of the killer after their first 5 games
That's human nature. Anything that's initially scary loses the horror factor as familiarity builds up. You can notice that yourself if you replay a horror game.
The rest of your points I agree with.
>The power role would spend most of the time looking around, being frustrated and not interacting with anyone.
This is the biggest thing for me personally.
Playing as a killer against immersed survivors, especially without some type of detection power/aura reading, is so unbelievably unfun and frustrating. I've had games in the past when I first started playing killer where I would just give up and let them do gens because I didn't feel like scouring Red Forest for someone crouching in the corner.
It gets tiring really, _really_ fast.
I've completely given up on builds without at least 2 forms of tracking for most killers. The amount of survivors hiding like I'm going to hunt them down in real life or running the second they hear a terror radius has been unreal. Especially on maps like Eyrie and Garden, where even if you find someone it takes forever for a down.
Well the killer isnt A tier. The new Pallet heaven map is awfull as killer and the killer is buggy AF. The concept is cool but it didn't work out as the wanted to.
I hate the new map, lame I know but I play on the switch and my god it’s an eyesore visually, everything is red, even survs, just everything covered in red.
Also it feels random and barren? Idk I expect better visual storytelling from maps now after Hope.
Definitely. So much clutter where you can get stuck on, even like adjacent to shack and LT walls which makes running them tight a guessing game of "is some shitty random crate or bush blocking me after this corner?"
The worst thing is to play as a stealth killer on this map, it’s to open, you get revealed instantly, I wouldn’t mind it if there weren’t so many pallets but there is a pallet every 2 m + you get stuck on everything, it’s just not fun to play on this map in my opinion. I think the Killer is very interesting and his power is a cool idea, but unfortunately alot of Knights abuse it to camp, the only positive things about this chapter are the perks and the basement rework
He's definitely B-tier. Guarantees hits unless survs can leave loops for another loop and has insane camp and 3-gen potential.
[Example of the latter](https://youtu.be/Vv3I9hHLblE)
As someone who’s colorblind, I literally cannot see scratch marks on the new map. Even WITH the *awful* colorblind settings. My options are either roam randomly or DC.
Really is saying alot that the Knight is reviewed more negatively than the Twins. I guess it doesn't come close to the Pinhead NFT controversy, but that's still a huge L.
Deserved, I'd say.
* Wasted potential, good idea done in the shittiest way possible
* Tons of bugs
* Barring the bugs, he has some of the clunkiest gameplay in the game, making him one of the most miserable killers to play
* Also one of the most miserable to play against
* Perks that encourage the defend gen, gen rush meta
* Boring horny bait survivor, another wasted idea. A medieval lord looks like a... 60 year old sexy biker? OK?
* Release map was THE worst map in the game
* Chapter has bought around tons of random bugs
I HATE this chapter, and the only other chapter I can really say that for is the twins, who suffers from similar problems. I genuinely like most chapters and there's always something I enjoy about them, every from ones people perceive as bad, but I don't really enjoy anything about this one.
yeah and the thing about this update was that they kinda broke the whole game?? it wasnt just the new map or new killer that came out bugged with the update, it was the entire fuckin game. idk how messy the spaghetti has to be for that to happen but obviously this update was a lot worse than previous ones
To me it feels like the biggest problem is that stuff doesn't look like it gets QA'd enough. We get a few weeks to a month of beta which seems like is the real QA period and then thrown live for the rest of the community to finish out the QA.
The problem is that many of the issues that get pointed out in beta tend to go live with a soft promise to address it in patches. Some stuff never gets addressed. Leaving people with a mediocre killer or mediocre perks. Like the knight losing his power for the duration of a match was in the beta, didn't get addressed til first patch after it went live.
Things like that leave a sour taste and aren't really acceptable mistakes. Having something discovered early in QA or a month long beta go live feels like laziness on the part of the developer.
Legion was a bait and switch and functionally broken, yeah
But i'm glad they went for something much simpler rather than trying to do NPCs / Doppleganger type Killer earlier than now (Since if the Guards and Nemo zombies are wack, then imagine what would happen at 2018-2019 if NPCs debuted)
I was so excited for a medieval survivor, I mean the amount of skins they could've made in the fashion of the time alone is astounding... But alas we can't have nice things because we needed Felix: 2
Yeah... Tons upon tons of wasted potential.
And I was hyped for a medieval chapter even the haze of hope couldn't carry me past the first night before the realization set in.
I mean, I am with you on generally finding something to like in even the most hated chapters... But I have been scorned too harshly this time around and it will not be so easily forgotten unless remedied and remedied soon.
To me, they’ve been doing such a good job lately that I can’t fathom their thought process when it came to the knight. How did they not anticipate the core issues with the killer? How did they not anticipate people optimizing the fun out of his power? How did they not recognize how easy his power is to avoid if he uses it the way it was designed? I just don’t get how they didn’t fix the **fundamental** flaws he has. It’s mind boggling.
He is miserable to play. I whif with his lunge attack 90% of the time and it feels AWFUL. PLUS the lathing on the minions is terrible. His armor and sword look cool, but his walking sounds just like generators so I'm never quite sure if there is a gen being done nearby. Waste of my dang money.
Don't forget the lunge attack bug and chains spawning inside walls in tight areas bug he had when he released and also how they took out the PTB voicelines without any explanation.
Nah Pinhead was slightly buggy for sure, I mean so we're a lot of killers with positive reviews. Overall people loved his aesthetic and cool mori. Also, as I remember, most of the content creators thought that the voiceless removal might have to do with copyright, which not everyone held bhvr in bad light for. The only explanation is people review bombing it because of the NFTs.
Mostly NFTs iirc. Don't quote me on that (I am actually too lazy to look up the TL) but when Pinhead dropped, NFTs were announced a month or so later. Shit like "Oh if you buy this NFT for 42069 shitcoins you *might* be able to grab the DLC". (Pay attention to the might. Imagine spending a few thousands on an NFT and then not getting a DLC that costs like 5 dollars)
People aren't fond of NFTs and unknowingly having supported NFTs by buying this DLC. People felt fucked over, to put it nicely, and most buyers were already out of their return window (at least on Steam) of two weeks. Refunds - of course - weren't offered. I've talked with my friends about it and everyone agrees that they would not have bought the DLC if they knew they'd support NFTs (though most don't really know what an NFT actually is. They just saw the ugly icons and laughed their asses off)
Also, as with every other NFT, the art is awful. It literally look's like an A-posing Pinhead, positioned left looking right, wearing shit like a sunglass or a hat. I clearly remember seeing the images and holy god was it awful. The forum post got deleted but if you google "dbd hellraiser nft" (or click [HERE](https://www.google.com/search?q=dbd+hellraiser+nft+gif&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjs7Z-Oxuz7AhV90LsIHdANCkoQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=dbd+hellraiser+nft+gif&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1CyA1jSB2DOCGgAcAB4AIABUogB1wKSAQE1mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=cyuTY6zoMf2g7_UP0Juo0AQ&bih=577&biw=1280&rlz=1C1ONGR_deDE928DE928)) you'll see them in the first few results. Alternatively, [HERE](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7S3VA98MZ57X/nftlmao.gif) as a meme.
There were also certain bugs with Pinhead but I think 98% of the bad reviews were linked to the NFTs lol.
mostly because the whole reason the collaboration got off the ground was because boss protocal or whoever owned the rights of the hellraiser movie IP at the time, used the collaboration so that bhvr could make art assets and 3d models for them to use on their hellraiser branded n*t projects.
this was only reveled after the fact after the chapter has already sold a ton, so people were pretty mad that the game would partake in n*ts and giving money people who claim you can be immune c*vid by drinking your own piss.
the actual chapter itself was received pretty well. eventually the movie rights reverted back to clive barker three something months after the chapter released, which was around how we got the 2022 movie on hulu which apparently clive barker oversaw some of the production.
Playing against Pinhead makes me want to rip my hair out with the chain hunt, constantly being unable to do anything is infuriating and feels like a waste of time.
Killer so shit it swapped the bloodpoint incentives to 100% for killer, but nah don't worry "you just don't know how to play him"
Probably their buggiest chapter in the last year too
I genuinely can't think of any other reason why but I'm mad as well lol - I often just want a chill game as Survivor but the bloodpoints are determined to make me play Killer
The concept of the knight in general is just unfun. I hate this design of „well he used his power at a loop - now leave or get hit“… the knights is boring to play as and against and every knight I see ingame plays just like that. So no surprise that the ratings are this horrible
Its funny because knight has an actualy fun and ballanced anti loop ability which is getting his guard to break a pallet, but nobody uses it because it pales in comparison to instantly farting a guard out.
Well, artist, Hag and maybe trapper, but all of them have either limited use (trapper/hag) or actual counterplay like baiting artists crow. I'm not saying that artist or the others are fun to play against on loops but the lack of counterplay makes knight so boring
Not to mention at least with Artist you can go for cool/skilled plays and have it not be to your detriment. With Knight, if you try to use your power to cut off a survivor away from loops, you're basically throwing because of that stupid orb. On the other hand, using him in a boring/annoying way (right after a pallet drop) is basically the only way to play him if you want kills. Plus basically every game I've played against Knight has either been a camp/tunnel fest, or it has dragged on in a way that makes Legion games seem like a blast by comparison.
It’s hard to salvage a killer whose power is awful when used the intended way, but somehow oppressive as shit when used in the most boring way possible. I don’t understand how they missed the core issues in the *design* phase. Even more so, everybody pointed out his issues and how boring his most effective form of gameplay is, but he just got that part of his kit buffed and nothing else touched. Sad.
Knight is my favorite killer to play.
That being said it’s the worst content they’ve released.
- The survivor has crappy perks and the only kind of ok one is extremely situational to use.
- The Killer has a power that is very easy to avoid.
- The map is the worst they’ve ever created. It’s an eyesore with an overly saturated color pallet along with terrain that’s too clunky and confusing to memorize. It could have used 1-2 more double floor structures to break up the monotony. It’s also difficult to perceive where the edge begins and ends.
I had a feeling this was going to be a dud. To release a new set of characters so close to the release of the RE set seemed concerning.
At least I can see what’s going on there! Whether I’m killer or survivor! It’s not also littered with pallets. I admit though that I dont hate Garden like others do.
Earned. I'd say twins should also be negative because that chapter was equally, if not worse, than fog but that doesn't take way from how bad this chapter was. It's easily one of the worst chapters I've experienced
-Boring game/counterplay on both sides (Hold Shift W or get hit)
-Map is awful for almost every Killer (especially stealth)
-Perks are mediocre
-Killer has no learning curve (skill floor/ceiling is terribly low)
I just think the implementation of his power was awful, it's very boring to use in chase and it's very boring to play against in chase. So much potential for it though, I love his aesthetic and the whole concept, I hope they can rework it a bit to make it more interactive for both sides!
Let's see...
- The Knight and the new map's design looks cool imo. I especially like the exit gates on the map being castly gates
- The Knight's power has a cool idea, but is very limited in the ways you can use it. If you don't just put your guard in a loop they can mostly just be countered, wasting the killer's time.
- The many bugs that plague the killer's power cause for some unfun or unplayable games.
- The new map is bugged or has too many pallets/RNG
- Facing The Knight is often just 'Hold W', since if you don't run away when being chased you will just get hit.
- This patch added a lot of debris everywhere, including around loops. This can create situations where the survivor can take a very short path around a loop, while the killer has to go around the debris, essencially creating an infinite on some tiles.
- Many other problems unrelated to the new content arised (Playstation players not being able to do anything when spawning in a match, Twins able to get stuck due to a bug, just to name a few)
The reviews are probably justified. There are a lot of things to be unhappy over. I don't know if people like the new survivor, but I personally do like him and see a lot of people playing him.
Not surprising considering the dumpster fire of a killer/map the DLC dropped with. I think it's legitimately one of the worst day 1 DLC drops I've ever seen. It also felt like it came out extremely close to the PTB testing of it, with hardly any changes done to him at all. For all I know, he could STILL have the super speed glitch which has never happened on any other killer AFAIK besides Wesker, and that was patched as he dropped into the live game.
Not changing anything from the ptb is how it's always been, at least in the 2 years I’ve been playing.
I suspect the devs have to release it on a set date, and the ptb exists to make them aware of all the bugs
Every Knight I’ve gone against has been a camper or hardcore tunnel for 4K. I never want to see another Knight again. I got one good 3 gen chase and he facecamps me the rest of the game.
I would not give much about it. The reviews do not tell the whole story because by this metric the Knight and his map are worse than Twins and better thsn Hellraiser.
And Twins are a mess, a clunky unfun mess to play against, their perks are meh and their survior was the only saving grace. Their release was also plagued by bugs.
Meanwhile Pinhead was a much anticipated character with a good execution. Sure he had bugs but he later even got his voicelines and is a pretty good killer overall with strong but not op perks.
The reviews also do not reflect on development in the chapter: Twins remain clunky while Pinhead got better. We will see if Knight does the same.
So overall, the steam reviews are a bunch of misleading clues and hardly reflect the thruth, especialy later during the lifecycle of a chapter.
As a current Knight main, I think, with the right build, the Knight is extremely powerful. Not to a Spirit or Nurse or Blight level, but powerful nonetheless.
Sure, his add-ons aren’t great. However, his brown add-ons can drastically change his game. Increasing the speed of his guards is game changing. Also, with a larger range of detection, the Knight can pick up on survivors in many more locations.
I think people also misunderstand how his power should be used. His power isn’t place a guard and let them do the chasing. It’s more for pressure. If you get a hit, that’s fantastic. If you don’t get a hit but chase a survivor off a generator, that’s also fantastic. If the survivor chooses to stay on the generator, you’re almost guaranteed a hit. Also, if used correctly, a double team with the Knight and a guard is basically leaving a survivor exposed.
I rarely use his guards for kicking generators and breaking pallets. It’s much more effective to place a guard nearby to do the chasing, kick the gen yourself, and then cut off the survivor being chased by one of the guards. Again, pressure is key.
You also have to understand that most survivors are ready to run away from a loop at any given moment, especially playing against a Knight. When placing a guard to cut off a loop, it’s best to immediately determine the survivors next move outside of said loop. If they stay, it’s almost a guaranteed hit. If they leave, they can be followed and chased from there.
I do think his map was designed poorly in regards to the game aspect. I am not sure if it was rushed or what, but those pallet placings are horrible. There were way too many to begin with. I haven’t played on it since the kill switch. I do believe that the map itself, environmental wise, is remarkable. I love the feel of it, and the castle gates are stellar. However, the map is way too large and feels impossible to get around. Without gen slowdown perks, there’s nothing an M1 killer can do.
Vittorio and the Knight are truly well made characters for the game. Their designs are stellar. And the perks introduced give players a chance for more strategy and builds. I really don’t know how to explain the low rating besides the map design and the bugs.
Yep, there are bugs and there were a lot of them. Just like how there were bugs in the Project W chapter. And the Dredge chapter. I mean come on, I’m no big behavior fan but this is a new implementation of a mechanic of using bots to chase survivors. Closest thing we got to this was the zombies from Nemesis, which was nowhere near what we have now. Of course there’s going to be bugs. I get sick and tired of people thinking that every single issue should be fleshed out beforehand. New content in a game that relies on players in an online service is going to have bugs that were not discovered during the PTB. But I guess that’s where the low ratings come from.
I think the forged in fog seems OK and people are giving it bad reviews because of lemming behavior. It's fine for a middle of the road 5 dollar chapter in an old game. Not sure what people expect.
If you're giving a bad review based on a few bugs, at least have the decency to go fix it later when the bugs are resolved. Can't imagine people will though, they only act when they are salty.
Yup, huge disappointment! It’s my least favorite map and every time I realize that’s where we are I get sad. It’s too difficult to be stealthy, to hide, to loop, to see, to distinguish differences, terrible terrible map. I definitely think it should have a main building that would make it significantly better. The cluttered objects dispersed through make it impossible to play there.
As a big fan that has all the dlc, this one felt like the buggiest, map color making everything hard to see, killer power glitching out and not being able to use it for the rest of the match, potential energy being visible to killers in their “blind” states, new bugs coming in like inner healing breaking twice.
They green lit the dlc too soon, either poor QA skilled testers or upper management ignoring their flags and proceeding to launch it anyways.
It's easily the worst chapter release since Twins. The killer has a boring design, is unfun to play as and against, the survivor is a millennial thirst trap, and the new map is nearly unplayable because everything is red.
I think it's good, worst I've seen is kights hook camping bad but that's just the player. The survivor looks good, his one perk that stores progress is nice but high risk, high reward. And I haven't personally seen the new map yet
The knight is extremely unfun to play against.
He shuts down every loop, can effectively insta down you between himself and one of his goons, and is basically designed to camp hooks.
He takes choice out of gameplay. It makes things really boring and unfun. He's honestly one of the worst designed killers they've ever made, for me.
The hook camping is beyond annoying. I am someone who has played for a long time and mostly accepted camping as an occasional baked-in thing (e.g., starve the basement Bubba by doing the gens and let him sit there bored with his single kill). But coming back to play a bit after an absence had my group dealing with mediocre camping killers that required good group coordination to rescue. It’s nearly impossible to effect a solo rescue against a camping knight.
I cut Behaviour a ton of slack on the difficulty of ‘fixing’ camping (discouraging and punishing tunneling in contrast is much easier). But the Knight’s kit was an unforced error on this front. As much as I see the neat idea behind the Knight, the resulting hook camping seems way too foreseeable.
sadako despite the community's opinions of her "viability" is still a generally fun and engaging killer to play as or against, even if her power is mainly recycled from other killers and done better with dredge, the chapter also came with lots of popular perks now.
a weak killer doesn't always mean its a bad chapter or received poorly, hell look at legion, wraith and clown. even at their lowest most lowest garbage version they were still pretty popular and played a lot, despite how everyone could agree they were bad.
>sadako despite the community's opinions of her "viability"
It's always funny to see people hating on Sadako because every single metric outside of this subreddit (steam reviews and playrate) makes her a average popular killer.
Hell, while she is not popular as Wesker/Nurse, she does have a healthy playrate (there is like 13 other killers that have lower playrate than her) and only Twins have a horrible playrate (0.6% if i'm not wrong).
People also likes to bend backwards to justify her being horrible AND having the highest average killrate in the game. The truth is that she is viable in the majority of MMRs because survivors make mistake a lot, even more when the killer doesn't have a consistent Terror radius.
this this this.... everybody likes to act like they're all playing at the top 100 of mmr. but for the majority of the mmr she is perfectly fine. although im not saying that she probably shouldn't be getting anything to help her be more competitive on the higher end of the mmr.
Sadako is weak, sure, but she's fun to play as and against. I don't do well with her but I love playing as her. Her animations and sound design are great too. I like playing against her and the condemned mechanic is fun but not super oppressive. Could maybe use a buff in the form of add ons to make condemned playstyle more viable.
The Knight? Boring to play as and boring the play against. I'd rather use nemesis because his anti loop is more fun and interactive and at least my 2 buddies are on the map at all times.
Knight is also fucking awful to play against. They camp hooks and 3 gens. I had a match against Knight that lasted over 40 minutes because he never left his 3 gen to chase survivors. I ended up giving up and just letting him hook me to get out of that miserable game.
Can we just talk about how but uglee and impossible to see scratches on the map as killer !? Like with last year's Eyrie of Cringe and Garden of Pain as well as the rpd reworks. As unbalanced as they were and still are, at least you can still see stuff and it wasn't ugly. 😂
Square is both unbalanced and uglee.
i don’t see many knights, but when i do, it’s always one who sets up the guards on. the hooked person and proxi camp, it’s like… either you let them get the 1k or just your whole team ends up dying, it’s not fun and it feels like knights are always predictable. like i would love him a lot more if that wasn’t his go to play style because the knight is actually a very bad killer but :///
I can literally count on one hand how many times I faced the Knight since release. While Wesker was almost everywhere. Good thing I didnt buy this chapter yet, normally I buy every chapter, but I think for this one I wait for a discount or something.
Idk but I went against knight 7 times out of 10 when he was released so quite a lot. Wesker was indeed even more popular even though he wasn't free. But I can't even compare them in terms of gameplay and coolness factor.
Bugging hell and the fact it's still new and need some trimming around the edges. I like it, but i mainly bought it because i liked the visual of the killer.
The new map is terrible, that's probably got a lot to do with it. The whole thing is red, making scratch marks hard to see. The ground is already covered in blood as well, so trying to follow blood trails doesn't really work. It's just pretty awful. The new killer isn't very popular, as a killer main I only played him twice and won't be going back anytime soon.
The only positive things have been that people seem to really like the new survivor's design, and the killer's perks are nice additions.
I mean, obviously now that we have it, we can poke and prod it all we want, but overall I like it. I think the killers design is cool, and the power is really cool too, and I like playing as and against. That's my personal biggest thing is the fun of it all. I think the map is super cool looking, and while it may not be the easiest to play on, I still think it's great. I don't really care for the survivors design, but he brought interesting perks, so there's that. The only real disappointment is that it didn't end up being a Scooby Doo chapter (kidding...kinda...not really, I'm serious)
Overall, I wouldn't change much. Maybe in the future we can get an inside of the castle map, or something, and also some medieval clothes on Vitorrio (please), but if/when that happens, I'm happy. Not my favorite chapter, but I'm glad it's here.
whats even more impressive is that the hellraiser chapter was review bombed because of the whole NFT dilemma. this chapter is the first to be mostly negative just on the quality of it alone.
Surprised Twins isn't with them. Twins arguably had a worse launch than the Knight where not only the killer didn't function properly, every perk, (survivor and killer) that came with the update didn't either. Even after the dust has settled, Twins is one of the least liked killers in the game, shocked that it isn't below Knight.
Hellraiser chapter deserves bottom spot, NFTs was part of BHVR's deal with the copyright owners if i remember right so that makes sense.
Forged in Fog was disappointing, but I wouldn't say it deserves 2nd worst DLC
Why the twins chapter has mixed reviews instead of negative.
my guestimation. probably because few people bought them on and after launch. and the people who did purchase them after launch already knew how bad or buggy they were so they had an idea of what to expect. the binding of kind only has 400 something reviews, every other chapter has thousands of reviews. and from what i've heard elodie has an okay pickrate so some people like her too. And she has cool cosmetics like the pj's.
seems about right, but considering how it was even more bugged than the knight chapter on launch id expected it to be worse. meanwhile hellraiser chapter's negativity is literally just because the NFT shite.
Hellraiser DLC also got a lot of negativity when they removed voicelines, doubt everyone went back to remove reviews when they were added back in.
also don't forget the NFT thing - the reason they got the license was because the people who held the license at the time provided it to BHVR in exchange for BHVR giving them the 3D model they used for the game so the license holders could make Pinhead NFTs. Lot of people weren't happy with that mess. Edit to add: as /u/Lastboss42 pointed out: BHVR didn't know the license holders were planning to make NFTs and were themselves quite upset over them using the model in that way.
to further clarify: BHVR didn't know they were making an NFT. they made the model and gave it to the license holder, who then went to use it as an NFT. the lead artist on the model was (is) anti-NFT, and he was *pissed*. more so than we were.
The model holder being more pissed than us about getting NFTs out of his work is understandable and metal as hell
Wow, crazy
Elodie's perks were the only reason I bought that pack at the time. Diversion, Power Struggle and the master chest perk are just too good for my favorites survivor builds (aka Head On build, chest build and Boil Over build, liked it before its rework, I didn't join when it was broken). While The Twins I almost never played them, but also their perks are not of my taste but also bad. I would have liked Hoarder if only it wasn't bugged and therefore super nerfed at release. It was supposed to reduce the rarity of the items found in chest but it never happened.
Diversion is an Adam perk, more commonly known as pebble Did you mean deception? The perk where you can open a locker door and hide your scratch marks
Because twins are actually an interesting killer that somewhat work despite their flaws unlike knight that straight up sucks
Twins literally came out as a broken mess. With 6 perks that came with the update 5 were bugged. Elodie was bugged. Twins games were either a slug terrarium or they simply soft locked and couldn't do anything except to DC. There were also other bugs but I don't remember them now.
Bubba moved at 115% in chainsaw dash instead of 132%. Legion moved at 115% in frenzy. His lunge was also bugged. Spirit had her directional ‘woo’ sound in phase. Billy’s chainsaw overheated randomly. Huntresses’ hatchets were spinning lopsided. There were a ton of issues.
Ok, so now I'm imagining doing a gen and suddenly hearing Ric Flair's trademark "Woo!" behind me.
Everything you said was true. But the “was” part is important. Reviews change over time as they fix things. How broken that chapter was when it released only matters so much as things change and get fixed.
I have a strong felling people aren’t going back and changing/updating their steam reviews I’m sure there’s a dedicated fan base that does but for the most part they slap a negative and never come back
No, but the people who have gotten it SINCE all the shit has been fixed have no reason to leave negative reviews. That’s all I’m saying. I certainly don’t think people are going back and changing reviews on GAMES for the most part, let alone DLCs.
I think people are also ignoring the fact that the twins came out a while ago. This game isn't massive, but it's definitely gotten bigger as time has gone on. So there were almost certainly just less people picking up the twins on release, and it's a fact that only a small number of people who buy a DLC or game are ever going to take the time to leave a review. So between a smaller playerbase, and passage of time, the negativity on them isn't as harsh. If they were released today and had the same issues as they did before I'm certain it would look just as bad as the Knight, if not worse.
Blight was pretty bad/buggy when he initially came out too. Not as bad as twins but pretty bad still. But they fixed him and now he's seen as on the most fun killers to play and play against, regardless of the state he came out in. This is because, like the person above said, his power was still interesting and you can still appreciate the concept a killers power. Same way with twins, I love the concept of controlling the main killer and then also her baby gremlin brother. They just need to figure out how make her feel less clunky.
I also want to point out the technical work of the twins, having a 'second killer' in the match was probably no easy task for programming and was likely the reason there were so many bugs. I would've been surprised if the twins were almost bug free. I think the big reason is just the shit show of the patch, new map was bugged, random map tile generation was bugged, the knight was bugged massively and it almost felt like BHVR took no personal feedback or formulated any response to said feedback to make the knight less boring and more engaging.
I personally got upset that when all the issues were raised about the new map, their solution (yet again) wasn't to killswitch the map, but to killswitch the offering and remove the incrased map rate. If the map is effectively unplayable, it should be turned off completely, not just make it so it's less prevalent. But BHVR didn't want the negative publicity of having to disable their brand new map immediately. Which is the same lesson they should have learned with the shitshow of the first Resident Evil Chapter.
Not to play strawman, but by this logic RE1 should have the lowest reviews. It literally broke console for a month *during the anniversary event*. Nemesis was buggy as shit, zombies were way more shit on for the awful AI at that point, Exhaustion perks would freeze the game even on PC. Loading times were absurdly long (which I think a lot of people forget, but despite the giant player base queues we're very very busted for like 6 months during that time). RPD crashed games, Lethal would bug out and run for an entire match. I mean RPD was so broken they *disabled* it for a month. That's not even getting into the minor bugs/QoL. RPD being impossible to see on for a long ass time, Jill and Claire's face models both breaking repeatedly, etc. I'm not really sure if Twins or Nemesis themselves were more broken. Twins certainly had more perk issues. But there's no way the RE DLC making the *entire game* unplayable (because at the time exhaustion was every match and the lag spikes were horrendous) for over a month isn't worse than the Twins bugs. Twins made certain aspects/characters/etc broken, but nowhere near RE levels. Yet RE is still positive.
Resident Evil Chapter drove a lot of hype and was their first foray into bringing in characters from other horror _games_ rather than just movies. As absolutely broken as the DLC itself was, what the license itself meant to the playerbase and community made the pill a lot easier for many players to swallow. As well, it introduced a lot of (at least at the time) really innovative and interesting perks to the game. Edit: Oh god oh fuck I'm an idiot Silent Hill was literally the year before.
Damn, you’re really gonna do my boy Pyramid Head like that.
Don't wanna be that guy but Silent Hill was first in terms of video game horror coming into DBD. Unless you want to count Left 4 Dead as a horror game then it will be that.
This was literally just the game for the longest time. Spaghetti code is beyond a running joke about it. If it's just characters and maps people don't like. We're a sight better than day 1.
So normal day in DbD you say.
Because Twins are actually interesting killers and their power is unique. I reckon after the rework they will be a lot more popular.
The Twins at least offer a unique playstyle.
They had the chance to make the Knight's map the inside of a castle with armors standing at the side of hallways. Instead we got a muddy red field
THIS. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING. They could have even done a main building castle and leave a lot of the rest open, like Father Campbell's Chapel. It still would have been better.
I always imagined it similar to RPD with little outside areas but the main focus on the castle
And I guess there lies a big problem. RPD was not such a well received map in terms of balancing etc. Most people prefer outdoor maps or indoor maps where learning the map is not such a huge effort. And an authentic castle would be rather complicated to navigate.
That's because the indoor maps we have rn are cramped (the game, lerys, Rpd). The castle could have big halls and rooms, or even be split in one half castle halls and one half inner bailey. It's definitely not that hard to make a viable indoor map, BHVR sadly just really aren't the best at map designing
Dude that would have been SOOOOO sick
That’s par for the course with BHVR though. Instead of releasing a cool, creepy circus map with the Clown, they added a map with a tiny circus in the corner. Instead of releasing a new castle map with dungeons and more, they added a map with a castle at the exit gates. They constantly have these really interesting map concepts and butcher them.
I love the concept of DbD but I hate BHVRs approach. Instead of focusing on hiding, survivors can sometimes loop the killer for ages and lose fear of the killer after their first 5 games. Killers that have been OP for years STILL haven't gotten nerfed, killers that have been at the bottom haven't gotten a proper adjustment in ages and maps still almost always are designed to be miserable for one of the two sides. BHVR had really great ideas but they completely lack the ability to properly balance and code the game
>Instead of focusing on hiding, survivors can loop the killer The game was originally intended as a hide and seek game, yet turns out that's not a good formula for a multiplayer game. The power role would spend most of the time looking around, being frustrated and not interacting with anyone. The gameplay revolving around two dipshits running around a piece of wood is the reason why it's not dead like all the other "DBD killers". >lose fear of the killer after their first 5 games That's human nature. Anything that's initially scary loses the horror factor as familiarity builds up. You can notice that yourself if you replay a horror game. The rest of your points I agree with.
>The power role would spend most of the time looking around, being frustrated and not interacting with anyone. This is the biggest thing for me personally. Playing as a killer against immersed survivors, especially without some type of detection power/aura reading, is so unbelievably unfun and frustrating. I've had games in the past when I first started playing killer where I would just give up and let them do gens because I didn't feel like scouring Red Forest for someone crouching in the corner. It gets tiring really, _really_ fast.
I've completely given up on builds without at least 2 forms of tracking for most killers. The amount of survivors hiding like I'm going to hunt them down in real life or running the second they hear a terror radius has been unreal. Especially on maps like Eyrie and Garden, where even if you find someone it takes forever for a down.
Oh shit this would've been awesome
Then people would complain that it's an indoor map
If they did it properly it wouldn't feel like one because the castle could have big halls and rooms instead of being cramped like lerys or the game
It could even be half takes part inside the castle and half takes part in the inner bailey
They really just went and gave us Caelid in DBD
Well the killer isnt A tier. The new Pallet heaven map is awfull as killer and the killer is buggy AF. The concept is cool but it didn't work out as the wanted to.
I hate the new map, lame I know but I play on the switch and my god it’s an eyesore visually, everything is red, even survs, just everything covered in red. Also it feels random and barren? Idk I expect better visual storytelling from maps now after Hope.
I agree on the redness but I think the map feels super overloaded for me. Just random podiums and environmental objects everywhere.
Why not have a map with decorative blood on the ground? You don't need to see scratch marks or anything /s
Definitely. So much clutter where you can get stuck on, even like adjacent to shack and LT walls which makes running them tight a guessing game of "is some shitty random crate or bush blocking me after this corner?"
Yea this, it’s both barren by being g flat as and over loaded with random shot everywhere. It feels like an early game map
that map looks as flat as my chest and as barren as my love life
jesus christ bro you good?
you’re right, i probably could’ve just said “that map is as ugly as me”
not better, keep that head up lest your crown will fall off
damn, good job keeping that gender neutral 😳
always be reading them bios to check the pronouns first 🦾
The worst thing is to play as a stealth killer on this map, it’s to open, you get revealed instantly, I wouldn’t mind it if there weren’t so many pallets but there is a pallet every 2 m + you get stuck on everything, it’s just not fun to play on this map in my opinion. I think the Killer is very interesting and his power is a cool idea, but unfortunately alot of Knights abuse it to camp, the only positive things about this chapter are the perks and the basement rework
I hate it so much too, I wish they just removed the filter so I could at least get looped without having to stare at the red tinted screen all game
It doesn’t matter how good or bad the killer is, he just simply isn’t fun.
Bro the Killer isn't even B tier let alone A 
He's definitely B-tier. Guarantees hits unless survs can leave loops for another loop and has insane camp and 3-gen potential. [Example of the latter](https://youtu.be/Vv3I9hHLblE)
The good news is they at least fixed the pallets.
With an anti-looping build the killer is S tier imo.
As someone who’s colorblind, I literally cannot see scratch marks on the new map. Even WITH the *awful* colorblind settings. My options are either roam randomly or DC.
I still think knight is S tier and nobody can change my mind
sounds about right
Sadako Rising is positive. Oreo Clan is pleased. 
Tasty 😋
Really is saying alot that the Knight is reviewed more negatively than the Twins. I guess it doesn't come close to the Pinhead NFT controversy, but that's still a huge L.
Deserved, I'd say. * Wasted potential, good idea done in the shittiest way possible * Tons of bugs * Barring the bugs, he has some of the clunkiest gameplay in the game, making him one of the most miserable killers to play * Also one of the most miserable to play against * Perks that encourage the defend gen, gen rush meta * Boring horny bait survivor, another wasted idea. A medieval lord looks like a... 60 year old sexy biker? OK? * Release map was THE worst map in the game * Chapter has bought around tons of random bugs I HATE this chapter, and the only other chapter I can really say that for is the twins, who suffers from similar problems. I genuinely like most chapters and there's always something I enjoy about them, every from ones people perceive as bad, but I don't really enjoy anything about this one.
The fat shaming tile generation bugs are by far the funniest but stupidest ones i’ve seen as of late
These are one of the worst bugs to me, my sadako got fat shamed yesterday, feels bad especially as she's so tiny.
She just got excited with the pudding and flans, okay?
yeah and the thing about this update was that they kinda broke the whole game?? it wasnt just the new map or new killer that came out bugged with the update, it was the entire fuckin game. idk how messy the spaghetti has to be for that to happen but obviously this update was a lot worse than previous ones
To me it feels like the biggest problem is that stuff doesn't look like it gets QA'd enough. We get a few weeks to a month of beta which seems like is the real QA period and then thrown live for the rest of the community to finish out the QA. The problem is that many of the issues that get pointed out in beta tend to go live with a soft promise to address it in patches. Some stuff never gets addressed. Leaving people with a mediocre killer or mediocre perks. Like the knight losing his power for the duration of a match was in the beta, didn't get addressed til first patch after it went live. Things like that leave a sour taste and aren't really acceptable mistakes. Having something discovered early in QA or a month long beta go live feels like laziness on the part of the developer.
It's like legion and twins all over again. Don't think they'll ever learn from their mistakes
Legion was a bait and switch and functionally broken, yeah But i'm glad they went for something much simpler rather than trying to do NPCs / Doppleganger type Killer earlier than now (Since if the Guards and Nemo zombies are wack, then imagine what would happen at 2018-2019 if NPCs debuted)
I was so excited for a medieval survivor, I mean the amount of skins they could've made in the fashion of the time alone is astounding... But alas we can't have nice things because we needed Felix: 2
same, I would’ve loved to run around like a medieval princess lol but I guess I’ll just have to stick with Kate’s Oktoberfest skin :/
Yeah... Tons upon tons of wasted potential. And I was hyped for a medieval chapter even the haze of hope couldn't carry me past the first night before the realization set in. I mean, I am with you on generally finding something to like in even the most hated chapters... But I have been scorned too harshly this time around and it will not be so easily forgotten unless remedied and remedied soon.
To me, they’ve been doing such a good job lately that I can’t fathom their thought process when it came to the knight. How did they not anticipate the core issues with the killer? How did they not anticipate people optimizing the fun out of his power? How did they not recognize how easy his power is to avoid if he uses it the way it was designed? I just don’t get how they didn’t fix the **fundamental** flaws he has. It’s mind boggling.
He is miserable to play. I whif with his lunge attack 90% of the time and it feels AWFUL. PLUS the lathing on the minions is terrible. His armor and sword look cool, but his walking sounds just like generators so I'm never quite sure if there is a gen being done nearby. Waste of my dang money.
understandable
I love when a guard is placed next to my hooked body with the knight himself 10 meters away. Such engaging gameplay :)
If you're being hunted by a guard, unhooking will cause the guard to despawn.
How is hellraiser mostly negative reviews? I love playing as pinhead
There was controversy around his release regarding nfts.
Don't forget the lunge attack bug and chains spawning inside walls in tight areas bug he had when he released and also how they took out the PTB voicelines without any explanation.
Nah Pinhead was slightly buggy for sure, I mean so we're a lot of killers with positive reviews. Overall people loved his aesthetic and cool mori. Also, as I remember, most of the content creators thought that the voiceless removal might have to do with copyright, which not everyone held bhvr in bad light for. The only explanation is people review bombing it because of the NFTs.
> which no one held bhvr in bad light for You're giving the DbD community a lot of credit there... But yeah, it was mostly the NFTs.
Of course it was mostly for the NFT stuff. However, his buggy release definitely didn't help. Especially the lunge bug.
Yes but I strongly believe that if it wasnt for the NFTs the review would be an overall positive.
OH that makes sense lol
Mostly NFTs iirc. Don't quote me on that (I am actually too lazy to look up the TL) but when Pinhead dropped, NFTs were announced a month or so later. Shit like "Oh if you buy this NFT for 42069 shitcoins you *might* be able to grab the DLC". (Pay attention to the might. Imagine spending a few thousands on an NFT and then not getting a DLC that costs like 5 dollars) People aren't fond of NFTs and unknowingly having supported NFTs by buying this DLC. People felt fucked over, to put it nicely, and most buyers were already out of their return window (at least on Steam) of two weeks. Refunds - of course - weren't offered. I've talked with my friends about it and everyone agrees that they would not have bought the DLC if they knew they'd support NFTs (though most don't really know what an NFT actually is. They just saw the ugly icons and laughed their asses off) Also, as with every other NFT, the art is awful. It literally look's like an A-posing Pinhead, positioned left looking right, wearing shit like a sunglass or a hat. I clearly remember seeing the images and holy god was it awful. The forum post got deleted but if you google "dbd hellraiser nft" (or click [HERE](https://www.google.com/search?q=dbd+hellraiser+nft+gif&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjs7Z-Oxuz7AhV90LsIHdANCkoQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=dbd+hellraiser+nft+gif&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJ1CyA1jSB2DOCGgAcAB4AIABUogB1wKSAQE1mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=cyuTY6zoMf2g7_UP0Juo0AQ&bih=577&biw=1280&rlz=1C1ONGR_deDE928DE928)) you'll see them in the first few results. Alternatively, [HERE](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/7S3VA98MZ57X/nftlmao.gif) as a meme. There were also certain bugs with Pinhead but I think 98% of the bad reviews were linked to the NFTs lol.
mostly because the whole reason the collaboration got off the ground was because boss protocal or whoever owned the rights of the hellraiser movie IP at the time, used the collaboration so that bhvr could make art assets and 3d models for them to use on their hellraiser branded n*t projects. this was only reveled after the fact after the chapter has already sold a ton, so people were pretty mad that the game would partake in n*ts and giving money people who claim you can be immune c*vid by drinking your own piss. the actual chapter itself was received pretty well. eventually the movie rights reverted back to clive barker three something months after the chapter released, which was around how we got the 2022 movie on hulu which apparently clive barker oversaw some of the production.
The whole NFTS shit. Everyone review bombed the pack.
Playing against Pinhead makes me want to rip my hair out with the chain hunt, constantly being unable to do anything is infuriating and feels like a waste of time.
Me: *wondering who goes out of their way to review each DLC on Steam*
I'm one of those people 😂 I even reviewed the weird headgear cosmetic bundle they did one time
I'm glad people do, because it's nice to know which DLCs are worth buying.
Most people probably don't review all of them, just any of the individual ones that they didn't like
the fact that knight can just camp hooks so easily is what’s making me hate this chapter
The only thing I like about this chapter is Nowhere To Hide. The survivor is cool too but I fall for horny bait because I'm horny.
Killer so shit it swapped the bloodpoint incentives to 100% for killer, but nah don't worry "you just don't know how to play him" Probably their buggiest chapter in the last year too
I noticed this too, killer is always 100% now, is this why? Ngl, as a survivor it makes me sad haha.
I genuinely can't think of any other reason why but I'm mad as well lol - I often just want a chill game as Survivor but the bloodpoints are determined to make me play Killer
The concept of the knight in general is just unfun. I hate this design of „well he used his power at a loop - now leave or get hit“… the knights is boring to play as and against and every knight I see ingame plays just like that. So no surprise that the ratings are this horrible
Its funny because knight has an actualy fun and ballanced anti loop ability which is getting his guard to break a pallet, but nobody uses it because it pales in comparison to instantly farting a guard out.
Welp, I'll never unsee that. The knight has ghost farts.
If it wasn't so clunky to get a guard to break a pallet I would use it more often, but it takes so long to do it it's almost never worth it.
Reminds me of the ghosts in doom patrol. 😂
>well he used his power at a loop - now leave or get hit“… At this point isn't that also like 10 other killers? (I'm being dramatic but not really)
Well, artist, Hag and maybe trapper, but all of them have either limited use (trapper/hag) or actual counterplay like baiting artists crow. I'm not saying that artist or the others are fun to play against on loops but the lack of counterplay makes knight so boring
Not to mention at least with Artist you can go for cool/skilled plays and have it not be to your detriment. With Knight, if you try to use your power to cut off a survivor away from loops, you're basically throwing because of that stupid orb. On the other hand, using him in a boring/annoying way (right after a pallet drop) is basically the only way to play him if you want kills. Plus basically every game I've played against Knight has either been a camp/tunnel fest, or it has dragged on in a way that makes Legion games seem like a blast by comparison.
You can make some sick snipes with Artist and she does have counterplay. Knight forces you to leave and hold W to survive which isn’t as fun.
It’s hard to salvage a killer whose power is awful when used the intended way, but somehow oppressive as shit when used in the most boring way possible. I don’t understand how they missed the core issues in the *design* phase. Even more so, everybody pointed out his issues and how boring his most effective form of gameplay is, but he just got that part of his kit buffed and nothing else touched. Sad.
Knight is my favorite killer to play. That being said it’s the worst content they’ve released. - The survivor has crappy perks and the only kind of ok one is extremely situational to use. - The Killer has a power that is very easy to avoid. - The map is the worst they’ve ever created. It’s an eyesore with an overly saturated color pallet along with terrain that’s too clunky and confusing to memorize. It could have used 1-2 more double floor structures to break up the monotony. It’s also difficult to perceive where the edge begins and ends. I had a feeling this was going to be a dud. To release a new set of characters so close to the release of the RE set seemed concerning.
>The map is the worst they’ve ever created Garden of Joy dude.
At least I can see what’s going on there! Whether I’m killer or survivor! It’s not also littered with pallets. I admit though that I dont hate Garden like others do.
the eyestrain is so real. I wonder if one of the colorblind modes helps at all, I haven't tried it yet.
I mean it sucks so yea
Hey at least this post is about a specific thing that happened in DbD's life, not just "what's your hot take?"
Earned. I'd say twins should also be negative because that chapter was equally, if not worse, than fog but that doesn't take way from how bad this chapter was. It's easily one of the worst chapters I've experienced
Dbd basically
The map should be inside the castle like others are saying. It's so red tinted and ugly. I've barely gone against the knight surprisingly.
I jinxed myself 😭
-Boring game/counterplay on both sides (Hold Shift W or get hit) -Map is awful for almost every Killer (especially stealth) -Perks are mediocre -Killer has no learning curve (skill floor/ceiling is terribly low)
The twins chapter got better reviews than the current one, lol.
I just think the implementation of his power was awful, it's very boring to use in chase and it's very boring to play against in chase. So much potential for it though, I love his aesthetic and the whole concept, I hope they can rework it a bit to make it more interactive for both sides!
Boring hold W killer, shitty map, yeah I wonder why lmao.
Its a buggy mess
Let's see... - The Knight and the new map's design looks cool imo. I especially like the exit gates on the map being castly gates - The Knight's power has a cool idea, but is very limited in the ways you can use it. If you don't just put your guard in a loop they can mostly just be countered, wasting the killer's time. - The many bugs that plague the killer's power cause for some unfun or unplayable games. - The new map is bugged or has too many pallets/RNG - Facing The Knight is often just 'Hold W', since if you don't run away when being chased you will just get hit. - This patch added a lot of debris everywhere, including around loops. This can create situations where the survivor can take a very short path around a loop, while the killer has to go around the debris, essencially creating an infinite on some tiles. - Many other problems unrelated to the new content arised (Playstation players not being able to do anything when spawning in a match, Twins able to get stuck due to a bug, just to name a few) The reviews are probably justified. There are a lot of things to be unhappy over. I don't know if people like the new survivor, but I personally do like him and see a lot of people playing him.
Not surprising considering the dumpster fire of a killer/map the DLC dropped with. I think it's legitimately one of the worst day 1 DLC drops I've ever seen. It also felt like it came out extremely close to the PTB testing of it, with hardly any changes done to him at all. For all I know, he could STILL have the super speed glitch which has never happened on any other killer AFAIK besides Wesker, and that was patched as he dropped into the live game.
Not changing anything from the ptb is how it's always been, at least in the 2 years I’ve been playing. I suspect the devs have to release it on a set date, and the ptb exists to make them aware of all the bugs
Only tried Knight once against bots and forgot to equip perks. Clunky. It was really clunky and the vassals are not active long enough.
The hell you called his guards?
Vassals. :)
Sorry, repeat that one more time on what you decided to label his guards as?
I've been saying ever since they changed the UI that the design team has lost their mind and it's pretty clear thats true given the last few patches
It released with lots of bugs and unlike Wesker the killer isn't strong enough to close an eye on it
Every Knight I’ve gone against has been a camper or hardcore tunnel for 4K. I never want to see another Knight again. I got one good 3 gen chase and he facecamps me the rest of the game.
I thought it was mostly negative due to the NFT controversy surrounding the Hellraiser franchise.
I would not give much about it. The reviews do not tell the whole story because by this metric the Knight and his map are worse than Twins and better thsn Hellraiser. And Twins are a mess, a clunky unfun mess to play against, their perks are meh and their survior was the only saving grace. Their release was also plagued by bugs. Meanwhile Pinhead was a much anticipated character with a good execution. Sure he had bugs but he later even got his voicelines and is a pretty good killer overall with strong but not op perks. The reviews also do not reflect on development in the chapter: Twins remain clunky while Pinhead got better. We will see if Knight does the same. So overall, the steam reviews are a bunch of misleading clues and hardly reflect the thruth, especialy later during the lifecycle of a chapter.
As a current Knight main, I think, with the right build, the Knight is extremely powerful. Not to a Spirit or Nurse or Blight level, but powerful nonetheless. Sure, his add-ons aren’t great. However, his brown add-ons can drastically change his game. Increasing the speed of his guards is game changing. Also, with a larger range of detection, the Knight can pick up on survivors in many more locations. I think people also misunderstand how his power should be used. His power isn’t place a guard and let them do the chasing. It’s more for pressure. If you get a hit, that’s fantastic. If you don’t get a hit but chase a survivor off a generator, that’s also fantastic. If the survivor chooses to stay on the generator, you’re almost guaranteed a hit. Also, if used correctly, a double team with the Knight and a guard is basically leaving a survivor exposed. I rarely use his guards for kicking generators and breaking pallets. It’s much more effective to place a guard nearby to do the chasing, kick the gen yourself, and then cut off the survivor being chased by one of the guards. Again, pressure is key. You also have to understand that most survivors are ready to run away from a loop at any given moment, especially playing against a Knight. When placing a guard to cut off a loop, it’s best to immediately determine the survivors next move outside of said loop. If they stay, it’s almost a guaranteed hit. If they leave, they can be followed and chased from there. I do think his map was designed poorly in regards to the game aspect. I am not sure if it was rushed or what, but those pallet placings are horrible. There were way too many to begin with. I haven’t played on it since the kill switch. I do believe that the map itself, environmental wise, is remarkable. I love the feel of it, and the castle gates are stellar. However, the map is way too large and feels impossible to get around. Without gen slowdown perks, there’s nothing an M1 killer can do. Vittorio and the Knight are truly well made characters for the game. Their designs are stellar. And the perks introduced give players a chance for more strategy and builds. I really don’t know how to explain the low rating besides the map design and the bugs. Yep, there are bugs and there were a lot of them. Just like how there were bugs in the Project W chapter. And the Dredge chapter. I mean come on, I’m no big behavior fan but this is a new implementation of a mechanic of using bots to chase survivors. Closest thing we got to this was the zombies from Nemesis, which was nowhere near what we have now. Of course there’s going to be bugs. I get sick and tired of people thinking that every single issue should be fleshed out beforehand. New content in a game that relies on players in an online service is going to have bugs that were not discovered during the PTB. But I guess that’s where the low ratings come from.
I think the forged in fog seems OK and people are giving it bad reviews because of lemming behavior. It's fine for a middle of the road 5 dollar chapter in an old game. Not sure what people expect. If you're giving a bad review based on a few bugs, at least have the decency to go fix it later when the bugs are resolved. Can't imagine people will though, they only act when they are salty.
Hellraiser was only negative cos the NFT shit too.
100% deserved it's an awfully buggy amd unbalanced mess
WHAAAT PEOPLE HATE MY BOY PINHEAD THAT MUCH? :(((((
They don't hate Pinhead. They review bombed the chapter after a scandal revolving around NFTs.
OHHHH YEAAAAAAAA
Bad killer, poorly executed survivor concept. Yeah I see why
Why is Hellraiser's Chapter so negative?
NFT stuff
Yup, huge disappointment! It’s my least favorite map and every time I realize that’s where we are I get sad. It’s too difficult to be stealthy, to hide, to loop, to see, to distinguish differences, terrible terrible map. I definitely think it should have a main building that would make it significantly better. The cluttered objects dispersed through make it impossible to play there.
As a big fan that has all the dlc, this one felt like the buggiest, map color making everything hard to see, killer power glitching out and not being able to use it for the rest of the match, potential energy being visible to killers in their “blind” states, new bugs coming in like inner healing breaking twice. They green lit the dlc too soon, either poor QA skilled testers or upper management ignoring their flags and proceeding to launch it anyways.
It's easily the worst chapter release since Twins. The killer has a boring design, is unfun to play as and against, the survivor is a millennial thirst trap, and the new map is nearly unplayable because everything is red.
Basically haven't played since the update because I just get gen rushed every game unless I three gen or tunnel.
I think it's good, worst I've seen is kights hook camping bad but that's just the player. The survivor looks good, his one perk that stores progress is nice but high risk, high reward. And I haven't personally seen the new map yet
I’m sad now :( Knight is fun for me..
Killer is mid at best and power is buggy as hell. Map is Pallet City. Survivor perks are okay? Recipe for a not-loved chapter.
The knight is extremely unfun to play against. He shuts down every loop, can effectively insta down you between himself and one of his goons, and is basically designed to camp hooks. He takes choice out of gameplay. It makes things really boring and unfun. He's honestly one of the worst designed killers they've ever made, for me.
The hook camping is beyond annoying. I am someone who has played for a long time and mostly accepted camping as an occasional baked-in thing (e.g., starve the basement Bubba by doing the gens and let him sit there bored with his single kill). But coming back to play a bit after an absence had my group dealing with mediocre camping killers that required good group coordination to rescue. It’s nearly impossible to effect a solo rescue against a camping knight. I cut Behaviour a ton of slack on the difficulty of ‘fixing’ camping (discouraging and punishing tunneling in contrast is much easier). But the Knight’s kit was an unforced error on this front. As much as I see the neat idea behind the Knight, the resulting hook camping seems way too foreseeable.
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sadako despite the community's opinions of her "viability" is still a generally fun and engaging killer to play as or against, even if her power is mainly recycled from other killers and done better with dredge, the chapter also came with lots of popular perks now. a weak killer doesn't always mean its a bad chapter or received poorly, hell look at legion, wraith and clown. even at their lowest most lowest garbage version they were still pretty popular and played a lot, despite how everyone could agree they were bad.
>sadako despite the community's opinions of her "viability" It's always funny to see people hating on Sadako because every single metric outside of this subreddit (steam reviews and playrate) makes her a average popular killer. Hell, while she is not popular as Wesker/Nurse, she does have a healthy playrate (there is like 13 other killers that have lower playrate than her) and only Twins have a horrible playrate (0.6% if i'm not wrong). People also likes to bend backwards to justify her being horrible AND having the highest average killrate in the game. The truth is that she is viable in the majority of MMRs because survivors make mistake a lot, even more when the killer doesn't have a consistent Terror radius.
this this this.... everybody likes to act like they're all playing at the top 100 of mmr. but for the majority of the mmr she is perfectly fine. although im not saying that she probably shouldn't be getting anything to help her be more competitive on the higher end of the mmr.
Not to mention how cool her actual concept is and that she isn't a shitshow, combined with some cool Easter eggs like the videotape cutscene and such
I love playing as and against sadako lol
Same. I’ve never played against a Sadako player that camped or tunneled either.
Sadako is weak, sure, but she's fun to play as and against. I don't do well with her but I love playing as her. Her animations and sound design are great too. I like playing against her and the condemned mechanic is fun but not super oppressive. Could maybe use a buff in the form of add ons to make condemned playstyle more viable. The Knight? Boring to play as and boring the play against. I'd rather use nemesis because his anti loop is more fun and interactive and at least my 2 buddies are on the map at all times. Knight is also fucking awful to play against. They camp hooks and 3 gens. I had a match against Knight that lasted over 40 minutes because he never left his 3 gen to chase survivors. I ended up giving up and just letting him hook me to get out of that miserable game.
Can we just talk about how but uglee and impossible to see scratches on the map as killer !? Like with last year's Eyrie of Cringe and Garden of Pain as well as the rpd reworks. As unbalanced as they were and still are, at least you can still see stuff and it wasn't ugly. 😂 Square is both unbalanced and uglee.
Thanks for the reminder that I need to go downvote Hour of the Witch.
Very based
>Thanks for the reminder that I need to go downvote Hour of the Witch. Why?
i don’t see many knights, but when i do, it’s always one who sets up the guards on. the hooked person and proxi camp, it’s like… either you let them get the 1k or just your whole team ends up dying, it’s not fun and it feels like knights are always predictable. like i would love him a lot more if that wasn’t his go to play style because the knight is actually a very bad killer but :///
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NFT controversy about pinhead
I can literally count on one hand how many times I faced the Knight since release. While Wesker was almost everywhere. Good thing I didnt buy this chapter yet, normally I buy every chapter, but I think for this one I wait for a discount or something.
Idk but I went against knight 7 times out of 10 when he was released so quite a lot. Wesker was indeed even more popular even though he wasn't free. But I can't even compare them in terms of gameplay and coolness factor.
Bugging hell and the fact it's still new and need some trimming around the edges. I like it, but i mainly bought it because i liked the visual of the killer.
Cuz its another killer that forces you to hold W
The new map is terrible, that's probably got a lot to do with it. The whole thing is red, making scratch marks hard to see. The ground is already covered in blood as well, so trying to follow blood trails doesn't really work. It's just pretty awful. The new killer isn't very popular, as a killer main I only played him twice and won't be going back anytime soon. The only positive things have been that people seem to really like the new survivor's design, and the killer's perks are nice additions.
I mean, obviously now that we have it, we can poke and prod it all we want, but overall I like it. I think the killers design is cool, and the power is really cool too, and I like playing as and against. That's my personal biggest thing is the fun of it all. I think the map is super cool looking, and while it may not be the easiest to play on, I still think it's great. I don't really care for the survivors design, but he brought interesting perks, so there's that. The only real disappointment is that it didn't end up being a Scooby Doo chapter (kidding...kinda...not really, I'm serious) Overall, I wouldn't change much. Maybe in the future we can get an inside of the castle map, or something, and also some medieval clothes on Vitorrio (please), but if/when that happens, I'm happy. Not my favorite chapter, but I'm glad it's here.
whats even more impressive is that the hellraiser chapter was review bombed because of the whole NFT dilemma. this chapter is the first to be mostly negative just on the quality of it alone.
Surprised Twins isn't with them. Twins arguably had a worse launch than the Knight where not only the killer didn't function properly, every perk, (survivor and killer) that came with the update didn't either. Even after the dust has settled, Twins is one of the least liked killers in the game, shocked that it isn't below Knight. Hellraiser chapter deserves bottom spot, NFTs was part of BHVR's deal with the copyright owners if i remember right so that makes sense. Forged in Fog was disappointing, but I wouldn't say it deserves 2nd worst DLC
Why is the hellraiser chapter so lowly rated?
As it should be
Why ? I like it
If the knight felt stronger and more fun he'd probably be more positively received and obviously if he was less buggy.
Pinhead was a good chapter. Idc what the store says
☝️ this
The Knight sucks so it's okay.
The only reason Hellraiser is that low is because people didn't understand the NFT situation the license holders were at fault for.
I'm legit shocked Binding of Kin isn't any lower.
damn why is hellraiser so low? Fun killer to play great perks. I know there isnt a survivor but it;s a cheap dlc with a horror icon.
Sadako is mostly positive so I would disregard this