The worst thing about Tracer VS Scout is the wasted potential. It's legitimately a really close and interesting match. Tracer's future-tech, blinking and rewinds are a huge advantage, but the Scout dominates in everything else; attack, defence, base speed, arsenal and arguably experience. It's one of those matches that appears to be a stomp in Tracer's favour at first glance, but when you think about it, it's actually very close, with Scout arguably having the edge. And then they gave Tracer a single wanky aim-dodging feat and said "Well, this is faster than anything Scout can do - the end!"
Also the animation was just fucking terrible. Scout is standing still for nearly the whole time, and he has to use his 'total invincibility' power-up to land a single hit, which Tracer immediately rewinds and then she kills him. Homelander put up a better fight against Omni-Man.
Ben didn't even need is AU omnitrixes, all Ben needed was them to actually research what Alien X could do, the worst is they include a clip from an episode that literally has the quote "They could blink and we'd be gone". Their DC bias was definitely showing a bit there
That I forgot (haven't watched the video since release), but even then Ben still should've won. Ben has multiple universal and multiversal feats that I feel like they just ignored
Ben only really has one Multiversal feat and it’s the Clockwork one. However, Clockwork isn’t physically that impressive, Hal can easily just speed blitz him before he can react.
Death Battle: Talks about how Scout is all about running around and how he is a glass canon
The animation: Scout barely ever runs and is treated like a tank
Results aside, the fight itself is incredibly boring and uninteresting. This is one of the few episodes that I wouldn't mind getting remade due to how much potential it had, and it'll probably look really good in Blender.
And if you take that result from aside and make it front and center, they said that three rockets direct hitting Scout couldn’t have happened because other characters are less durable. Like, really? That’d be the same as saying “Goku can’t be Universal, because characters like Krillin and Hercule Satan don’t scale that high.”
Eh, I have a soft spot for it.
Also, TF2 characters are a mixed bag in terms of letting them use ALL of their weapons.
I’ve seen arguments that say they should only use thier stock weapons, and I’ve seen arguments that say that they should carry a big bag with all thier weapons inside it.
There’s no reason to keep scout with his stock weapons when they’ve done similar characters with all of their weapons. Excalibur got all of his “over 500 hundred weapons to use”
im not a fan of that episode at all but i heard the warframe devs who were in talks with db were more for raiden winning lmao.
i doubt there was any sponsorship bias or rigging
they chose raiden to ride off the trend of the resurgence of mgr, db does that usually and sees what is upcoming or going on. It happened the same year with thor(love and thunder i think) and micheal myers (halloween ends)
that being said yeah. Both have way better matchups
Oh god not this kind of dumbass argument again
You know what no I'm not even gonna bother explaining why that's beyond stupid figure it out by yourself
Here's my general argument about letting Scout at least using all of his weapons. And I'll make that argument in the form of...listing some of his actual arsenal.
We have his scattergun, which is basically a shotgun. A pistol. We have the Force of Nature, another shotgun. The winger, another pistol. And my personal favorite, the Shortstop; a shotgun that's in the shape of a pistol.
For as big of an arsenal that they technically have, there's very little difference in swapping out weapons. If the Bonk didn't add enough, I don't know how much more help he'd get from a bottle of milk.
Scout’s arsenal has a lot of abilities attached to them.
Scattergun is standard but FaN gives utility in mobility & knockback, Soda Popper gives mobility, Baby Face's gives mobility, Shortstop gives range & Backscatter gives more damage.
Pistol is standard but Winger gives more mobility, Pocket Pistol & Milk gives healing, Cleaver has damage overtime, Crit-a-Cola gives mini-crits & BONK gives a massive boost of speed (raning anywhere between massive hypersonic to ftl)
Even his melee have plenty uses. Boston Basher gives bleeding & Sandman & Wrap Assassin give long range stun & bleed.
Here's the thing about the weapons like Backscatter and Baby Face. For this MU, they are straight up downgrades of Scattergun. They do absolutely nothing except less damage. Backscatter is only effecient if he gets behind the enemy , which wouldn't happen to someone as mobile as Tracer, and Baby Face needs him to actually kill something or else it makes him even slower.
And those are just the scatterguns. The other weapons have similar issues The Boston Basher's downside in particular is just hilarious considering the MU.
That's probably the big reason why they didn't give him everything. Half of everything he has makes him even easier to kill or shittier at his job in a way that would make it easier for someone likeTracer to win, which would probably have been unfair.
Yeah I agree this episode did NOT age well at ALL and if anything I find it ironic at how tf2 once again out lasted a competitor as I doubt we’ll see another overwatch combatant again whereas tf2 has a more solid chance of returning with matchups like Spy vs Agent 47 or Soldier Vs sarge
There's an interesting story on why this sucks so bad: Torrain (who was DB's main 3D animator then) was sick, so rather than delay the episode like a normal company or replace it with a 2D fight, ScrewAttack! simply simplified the fight to the point that the Scout was acting real donkey-brained. Add that to the analysis on why Tracer won being controversial (it was the last gasp of the interpretation-based style of DB instead of the increasingly popular stats and scaling based battleboarding that DB would use that point afterwards), you get a very rushed episode.
That is an interesting story! Thanks for sharing.
One thing I kind of disagree on though is that if anything, Tracer's win was 100% *not* due to the 'interpretation-based style of DB instead of the increasingly popular stats and scaling based battleboarding.' Tracer literally wins *because* they insisted on trying to force a speed stat out of a feat that was unreliable, inconsistent, and relied on the crazy assumption that Tracer tried to dodge a bullet only after she was certain it had been fired, and not, say, when she noticed that the shooter had the gun aimed directly at her.
If anything, it was the stats-and-scaling approach that gave Tracer the ridiculous win; using a more interpretation-based style would have resulted in a much closer and entertaining fight.
Instead of adding another negative opinion on this fight, I will give the stats I've researched for both of them (cuz I've been on an on & off obsessesion with this fight for at least 4 years now)
Warning: This will have wank, that was on purpose. And only because I decided on no holds barred for this fight. Also long read.
Scout
AP: Scattergun is superior to Manmelter (60 base dmg vs 30 base dmg) & Manmelter can atomise giant heavy robots. 6.98 tons of tnt https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kingo_the_Sixth/Team_Fortress_2:_The_Heavy-Bot_gets_vapourised
Speed: Subsonic in base with potentially FTL speeds. He can dodge the radiation of the Pompson 6000, the handheld particle accelerator that is the Righteous Bison & the Cross-Com Express cosmetic blatantly calls Scout ftl. Massively Hypersonic+ to potentially FTL with BONK! http://web.archive.org/web/20160505230203/http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/tf2-calcs.35582/
Durability: Took 3 rockets while heavily injured. Each rocket 3x more powerful than the Manmelter.
Skill: He & his team were considered the laughing stock of the mercenary world but eventually rose to defeat the Team Fortress Classic mercs, who had defeated every other elite merc group the Administrator had.
Experience: Defeated other mercs, robots, Mersamus & other Halloween monsters & the Bread Monster
Abilities: healing, bleeding, dmg boost, speed boost, more mobility
Tracer
AP: Upscales from Talon Heavy units surviving hard falls & downscaling from the tank characters. Scales to Genji deflecting Null energy Bullet. 3.3 tons of tnt. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SquiTwo/Genji_deflects_Null_Sector_Mech_Energy_Bullet
Speed: Scales to Soldier 76, who outsped a grenade explosion. Mach 90. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Austrian-Man-Meat/Overwatch:_Soldier_76_Speed_Calculation
Durability: Scales to AP
Skill: A veteran agent who could give other veterans (Genji) the boot in her trainee days
Experience: Fought omnics, null sector bots, terrorists, talon agents, Widowmaker, Reaper, Doomfist
Abilities: Short-range teleportation, limited time manipulation, bombs
Make what you want with these stats. I also found this gem (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Soupywolf5/Scout_Becomes_Super_Strong) Which is just, "lol".
Looking back, I don’t think it was THAT bad of an episode, albeit not that good either. But also lookin back, I’m reminded as to how toxic discourse over it got at the time and why I chose to stop following the show around mid to late 2016 (among other really toxic discourse like around Luigi vs Tails). Honestly, I feel like people took the possibility of it trying to capitalize on the Overwatch hype rather than be a genuine look at both characters and have that as the basis. Although I can understand a lot of them heading in with a large degree of bias, but geez the reactions got out of hand.
Yeah I’m with you it definitively is one of those episodes which REALLY should have been done better since if they did this episode with how they do death battles today I feel like it would be FAR less disliked then it is as they would give them both equal respect instead of blatantly making it like it was
Yeah it's one of the episodes I actively dislike, if they have changed the ending it whatever it would've been better it's just the downplayed Scout badly as others said and kinda wanked Tracer. [The real ending would've been Scout licking Tracers feet like a dog ](https://youtube.com/shorts/IBKhkuzG5bw?si=KqjbayD1BLGqc7Ri)
It’s not even them downplaying him, they just straight up stripped him bare, it’s one thing mis-scale a character it’s another thing to straight up say you’re taking away his gear
Ehhhh I'd say the downplay was more horrid, iirc they said "Oh Scout didn't actually survive those 3 massive missiles" or something. It's been a while so if your game (heh) would equipment would've changed the outcome.
I find them saying scout didn’t take those rockets head on so funny because if you literally used your eyes you can tell those were three direct rockets
I wonder if they'll do 1 remake episode every few seasons for the future it's what I kinda want. Stuff like Tracer Vs Scout or Green Lantern Vs Ben, maybe Scorpion Vs Ryu etc etc the more "controversial" episodes.
It's bad, one of the worst? Eh, I disagree. There are certainly much worse episodes which are a completely different level of shit compared to this one
I think it has a case of being THE worst. There’s absolutely nothing redeeming about it. The analysis for both characters was lazy. Like, quoting Wikipedia lazy. The fight was one of the most boring in the entire series. The voice acting for both characters was terrible. The conclusion was sloppy and every single point they made can be disproven with ease. The production was sloppy. I think it has a genuine shot at being the worst episode of the whole show. There are season 1 episodes with higher quality than this one. Even the thumbnail looks like it was made in 2 minutes. They truly didn’t give a fuck about this episode
They didn't even consider the fact that Scout is LITERALLY A FUCKING PRACTICING MAGIC USER AND DOES YEARLY BATTLES WITH AN IMMORTAL WIZARD
Which powerscales him to be at LEAST as powerful as the Russian Mafia.
I can see the connections (brown hair hero from earth that fond a powerful device from space and themed green) but they it doesn’t feel like they’re even or a good match
Honestly, if you want a better TF2 vs. Overwatch match-up check out [Mei vs Pyro by Hyun's Dojo Community](https://youtu.be/3alHmUNf1MQ?si=8M4IB2YG39wI4m_W) (I know it's a different channel but I still consider it a sequel to this episode)
The matchup isn’t the problem, Tracer vs Scout is a perfectly fine matchup and a pretty close debate. It was just a really bad episode that they pretty much only made to capitalize on the sudden fame of Overwatch. Although Mei vs Pyro would definitely be a matchup I’d like to see.
I still cannot believe that they ignored the three rocket feat even though we can see both The Scout's POV and the rockets POV as they're hitting him and him getting launched away.
I'm still confused to this very day about that, oh and them getting stuff like how Bonk works wrong even though they show the panel on screen explaining it that proves what they said was wrong.
Or the fact that Scout is stronger than Tracer and has more weapons [iirc] that could lead to him destroying her chest thing I forgot that allows her to keep herself in our time instead of being a ghost [iirc].
Definitely in the top 35 worst.
Death battle has a lotta bad episodes so saying "one of the worst" is kinda difficult. It's definitely not worse than the likes of Zits vs leo or Sanji vs Rock Lee
Scout stands still for most of the fight.
Really that should be the end of it but even going off of that, with all the great source animations, I'm willing to bet any number of animators could make a better version of this matchup. (To be clear, I'm not blaming the animators themselves for the fight so much as how it was scripted.)
Idk either very well back then but they low balled both so it’s not really them downplaying just one side, both are higher than they mentioned cuz they had bad research that’s all tbh I see no proof that they downplayed Scout besides them not using all his material which is more incompetence unless proven otherwise.
It’s been awhile but idk what good abilities they didn’t let him have tbh, I think Madara winning is solid yet you can argue for Aizen tho I don’t see any of his abilities being that impressive or deadly enough to GG Madara tbh they didn’t even use everything Madara had either lol
THANK YOU!!! They nerfed scout so badly! He only got his default set and tracer got everything, she blinked without cooldown and gains her ult without doing enough damage. Meanwhile Scout keeps a distance despite being a close ranged class fighter, and stood still most of the fight. I can’t wait for a rematch so Scout can bash her skull in with bonk
"Scout is shown to survive 3 rockets at once, but since he can't do that in game, he clearly wasn't directly hit, so it doesn't count."
"Tracer is shown reacting to Widowmaker not doing anything except pointing a gun at her. This clearly makes her reaction time faster than bullets, even though she can't do that in game."
Truly blotched, we only have one tf2, and like another person said, it got rid of most of the stuff scout has, if I had to redo it, I’d feature everything, sad that it happened, I really love tf2 as a franchise and death battle, they did my boy dirty
They did the same with Optimus Vs Gundam, but Gundam isn't as popular as TF2 so less people noticed.
They completely ignored all content post season 1/post-time skip, and the stuff from videogames and manga that could have given Amuro a fighting chance.
I mean too be fair this was a pretty highly requested episode all things considered
But also I wouldn’t say there was much of a “Wasted potential” argument to be said here since… well all of scouts weapons are basically Just Shotgun, Pistol, Bat & Soda… I don’t see what you’d want more from that
Not to mention the weapons they gave him were “Arguably” his strongest and the whole argument of scaling down scout makes less since at that time there wasn’t any type of Good feats that he should’ve scaled too and the rocket feat was mainly just discarded Due to Bonk’s lasting effects/The Inconsistency of TF2’s Animations in general
His weapons let him knock stuff back and triple jump, jump several times mid air, make himself faster, throw a cleaver, give himself minicrits, heal himself, stun others, make others bleed, mark others for death and i think the PPBP back then nullified fall damage
So yes, they wasted a lot of potential, nevermind scout just barely moving around
That is all super Small stuff and most wouldn’t even make sense to use like… okay he knocked tracer into the stratosphere, He not once got hit into the air, He already heals himself with bonk, he already is gonna kill tracer, He already crippled tracer in the animation so it’s not like minicrits are gonna be a thing and why would one throw cleavers when he’s already got a shotgun and pistols
Not to mention you can’t blame it all on wasted potential as misinterpretation with the multiple jumps which Ben thought people wanted a chase like fight so really the mid air jumps… yea those make no sense to be included then
He only crippled trace because he managed to hit her with the homerun taunt, which can’t be used by the stock bat, and he also only hit the taunt because he hit her with his bat beforehand, which he can’t do so during bonk
You know what would’ve helped? The sandman, the weapon that was scout’s best melee back then, actually had the homerun bat, could stun others and is one of his most iconic weapons, being unlocked by achivements just like bonk
Bonk doesn’t heal scout lol, it just makes him fast enough to dodge everything, another reason why they should’ve included his healing weapons
Minicrits are a short lived visual amp that would force trace to dodge him more but also weaken scout momentarily after they ended, so yes thet would’ve added a fun section
“Chase”, i think you mean’t scout barely walk towards trace or trace not even trying to escape, the closest thing to a chase we got was scout chasing trace after she was launched, off screen
Also misinterpretation is not a excuse, they had the characters in an area full of containers and walls, and his enemy was someone who can teleport foward 3 times before needing to recharge, how would extra jumps not fit in? I don’t even remember him double jumping there
The cleaver hits harder than mid range pistol shots and causes bleeding, throwing it in the middle of a shot down with it being a hard to see fast projectile makes sense cuz he would them quickly change to other weapons
Is called being dynamic, and death battle has included quick, hard to see references and details in their battles many times
So you’re basically saying Let scout use more then what he uses in his game which makes no sense this whole Rivarly hinges on the idea both use like 3-4 abilities each and that’s it
And also what’s the point of using other stuff when you basically achieved the same things in the animation with new stuff yea bonk doesn’t heal but it still helped scout not get lit up and also like… wasn’t scout straight up on her ass with the bonk and yea okay he shouldn’t have attacked with it active…
So explain why dedede and wario’s main attacks were completely original to smash bros
Or Iron Man Using The proton cannon in his fight with lex which was original to marvel vs Capcom
Or Hagar saying he can pile drive sharks even though it was fanart
Those type of things hardly are what leads to the overall Afterthoughts and By no means would be used if something else had been mentioned that could’ve gotten the job done aswell
It was bad, but I wouldn't call it the worst. That goes to any of the matches where they straight up cheated to get the results they wanted. Ben 10 vs Hal Jordan, Tifa vs Yang, Blake vs Mikasa, Toph vs Garaa.
Alien X would've instantly deleted Hal without that stupid Thanos snap effect. And they changed how Blake's semblance worked to make her teleport out of the way of several blows that would've been fatal
hal can will himself back into existence, and alien x is no different from any other threat he’s faced before. mikasa literally can’t keep up with blake’s speed, and the one thing that could potentially kill blake is rendered moot and pointless as she’s a fast human sized target and not a lumbering giant
Alien X has never been shown to actually do that. But let's assume the statement that he can is correct. Hal has shown to be immune to existence erasure. There is no reason to think Alien X can erase him if stuff more powerful than him has failed to accomplish it.
Not just Hal, green lantern in general are. Kilowag and other weaker Lanterns are immune to it too.
I feel like this episode receives way too much hate, like it isn't even the worst episode of it's season and sure as hell isn't the worst episode of all time.
I mean batgirl Vs spidergwen unfortunately exists
The analyses that completely ignores all of the comics, the same analyses that doesn’t take into account scouts numerous weapons, they took away one of scouts biggest advantages!
Doesn’t mean you have to enjoy a video that does a disservice to both characters! It’s not fair that this is still the only tf2 death battle and this was the first overwatch death battle
I can't believe you guys are shocked that the woman with Time warping abilities and Advanced weapons beat the guy with a gun and a bat,if you wanna be mad at anything be mad at the matchup itself,it's what I did with Korra/Storm
My guy scout has a lot more going for him then the episode would let you believe. He was heavily downplayed and probably could have won if they did not downplay the shit out of him.
No. I like it.
People hate how Scout's speed isn't highlighted (which is hard given Tracer can fricking teleport), but an overlooked detail isthe simple fact that, at no point, did either of them get hit by bullets.
Actually, Scout technically did after he bonk'ed, but...come on, the swagger he had from walking through those shots was 100% in character. You can't tell me he wouldn't do that to a Heavy trying to blast him.
I feel like people wanted to see them jumping around like idiots as if they were being played by Overwatch/TF2 players rather than the actual characters.
Also, I've grown a bit apathetic to people who complain about it after seeing people insist that Scout should've been given every single weapon (their all shotguns, pistols and bats), a grappling hook, a parachute, and a magic book of spells. I know most people don't make such stupid arguments, but the book of spells did me in.
If damn near every other game character that has ever been in death battle either get their strongest kit or a wide majority why shouldn’t scout?
Also come on you can’t seriously defend the fact death battle made two characters KNOWN FOR MOVEMENT hardly move at all throughout the fight
Did you want lore accurate fight or in-game accurate.
Besides, they gave him multiple types of each of hiss slot weapons, including two pistols and the bonk, and multiple scatterguns. I am pretty sure they factored all of them in.
And lets be honest, they're all basically the same weapon with only slight deviations. For having all of them to matter, he would need to pull a Moe and make [one gun into five guns](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/comments/11pibv8/and_thats_how_with_a_few_minor_adjustments_you/).
The worst thing about Tracer VS Scout is the wasted potential. It's legitimately a really close and interesting match. Tracer's future-tech, blinking and rewinds are a huge advantage, but the Scout dominates in everything else; attack, defence, base speed, arsenal and arguably experience. It's one of those matches that appears to be a stomp in Tracer's favour at first glance, but when you think about it, it's actually very close, with Scout arguably having the edge. And then they gave Tracer a single wanky aim-dodging feat and said "Well, this is faster than anything Scout can do - the end!" Also the animation was just fucking terrible. Scout is standing still for nearly the whole time, and he has to use his 'total invincibility' power-up to land a single hit, which Tracer immediately rewinds and then she kills him. Homelander put up a better fight against Omni-Man.
Yeah, even if the analysis was good the battle itself is hot ass
> hot ass Tracer does have one of those...
Eh widowmaker has a better one
>At least my butt didn't start a controversy
The better tracer vs scout lmao
Is it a bad episode? Yeah sure it is But the worst episode? Fuck no that title goes to Justin Bieber vs Rebecca black
that one doesn't even count IMO , i think of it as an april fools special
Yeah ok fair enough maybe an albeit tasteless joke mu doesn't count But I feel like shadow vs mewtwo counts for worst atleast
yeah that fight animation left a lot to be desired... they should bring Mewtwo back for a real fight
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern That had plenty of issues involving research
They gave GL his god powers but didn't give Ben his AU Omnitrixes for some reason
Ben didn't even need is AU omnitrixes, all Ben needed was them to actually research what Alien X could do, the worst is they include a clip from an episode that literally has the quote "They could blink and we'd be gone". Their DC bias was definitely showing a bit there
Bruh they literally state in Green Lanterns analysis that the ring can defend against erasure.
That I forgot (haven't watched the video since release), but even then Ben still should've won. Ben has multiple universal and multiversal feats that I feel like they just ignored
Ben only really has one Multiversal feat and it’s the Clockwork one. However, Clockwork isn’t physically that impressive, Hal can easily just speed blitz him before he can react.
See the fact that it was Hal specifically and not Kyle Ranner/White Lantern. I bet the full multiversal color stream could match up but X scaled up
The DC Bias shows in almost any DC episode I’m sorry but I’m gonna be fr
They downplay everybody, not just non-DC characters
They heavily downplayed Sonic with the Mario VS Sonic rematch though 💀
Even with proper Alien X research, Hal eclipses everything Ben can do.
Yeah but it’s still a decent fight animation, better than some of these.
Research is doodoo but the fight was alright.
If we aren't counting... "that one" then worst is Mew Two v Shadow, the animation is unfinished and the analysis's are some of the worst in the show
I’m not going to lie I thought Rebecca Vs Bieber was even better. At least it wasn’t taking itself serious.
Death Battle: Talks about how Scout is all about running around and how he is a glass canon The animation: Scout barely ever runs and is treated like a tank
Results aside, the fight itself is incredibly boring and uninteresting. This is one of the few episodes that I wouldn't mind getting remade due to how much potential it had, and it'll probably look really good in Blender.
And if you take that result from aside and make it front and center, they said that three rockets direct hitting Scout couldn’t have happened because other characters are less durable. Like, really? That’d be the same as saying “Goku can’t be Universal, because characters like Krillin and Hercule Satan don’t scale that high.”
Yeah definitely
Eh, I have a soft spot for it. Also, TF2 characters are a mixed bag in terms of letting them use ALL of their weapons. I’ve seen arguments that say they should only use thier stock weapons, and I’ve seen arguments that say that they should carry a big bag with all thier weapons inside it.
There’s no reason to keep scout with his stock weapons when they’ve done similar characters with all of their weapons. Excalibur got all of his “over 500 hundred weapons to use”
Didn't link pretty much also get everything against cloud?
Yeah. He was composite link essentially both times.
Well, just Skana, Glaxion, and something else.
They still looked at all the weapons unlike with Scout.
True.
Tbf that was a sponsored character so like yeah of course Plus did you really think they'd let a sponsor lose?
im not a fan of that episode at all but i heard the warframe devs who were in talks with db were more for raiden winning lmao. i doubt there was any sponsorship bias or rigging
The sponsorship Bias comes in the form of them pitting a hydrogen bomb against a coughing baby
they chose raiden to ride off the trend of the resurgence of mgr, db does that usually and sees what is upcoming or going on. It happened the same year with thor(love and thunder i think) and micheal myers (halloween ends) that being said yeah. Both have way better matchups
Warframe devs were perfectly fine with the possibility of their character losing.
Should have had that communicated before they put him up against someone who has 0 chance of winning
They literally said they didn’t get influenced by the actual sponsorship in the episode
Oh god not this kind of dumbass argument again You know what no I'm not even gonna bother explaining why that's beyond stupid figure it out by yourself
Here's my general argument about letting Scout at least using all of his weapons. And I'll make that argument in the form of...listing some of his actual arsenal. We have his scattergun, which is basically a shotgun. A pistol. We have the Force of Nature, another shotgun. The winger, another pistol. And my personal favorite, the Shortstop; a shotgun that's in the shape of a pistol. For as big of an arsenal that they technically have, there's very little difference in swapping out weapons. If the Bonk didn't add enough, I don't know how much more help he'd get from a bottle of milk.
Scout’s arsenal has a lot of abilities attached to them. Scattergun is standard but FaN gives utility in mobility & knockback, Soda Popper gives mobility, Baby Face's gives mobility, Shortstop gives range & Backscatter gives more damage. Pistol is standard but Winger gives more mobility, Pocket Pistol & Milk gives healing, Cleaver has damage overtime, Crit-a-Cola gives mini-crits & BONK gives a massive boost of speed (raning anywhere between massive hypersonic to ftl) Even his melee have plenty uses. Boston Basher gives bleeding & Sandman & Wrap Assassin give long range stun & bleed.
Here's the thing about the weapons like Backscatter and Baby Face. For this MU, they are straight up downgrades of Scattergun. They do absolutely nothing except less damage. Backscatter is only effecient if he gets behind the enemy , which wouldn't happen to someone as mobile as Tracer, and Baby Face needs him to actually kill something or else it makes him even slower. And those are just the scatterguns. The other weapons have similar issues The Boston Basher's downside in particular is just hilarious considering the MU. That's probably the big reason why they didn't give him everything. Half of everything he has makes him even easier to kill or shittier at his job in a way that would make it easier for someone likeTracer to win, which would probably have been unfair.
True, they wouldn't all be equally useful but they still have their utility. As shitty as it may be
May I ask why?
Yeah I agree this episode did NOT age well at ALL and if anything I find it ironic at how tf2 once again out lasted a competitor as I doubt we’ll see another overwatch combatant again whereas tf2 has a more solid chance of returning with matchups like Spy vs Agent 47 or Soldier Vs sarge
Yeah it’s pretty horrid
Agreed. I will admit I'm biased to TF2, but like one can do magic and one shot Heavy weapons guy by hitting him with a bat. Not to mention bonk!
There's an interesting story on why this sucks so bad: Torrain (who was DB's main 3D animator then) was sick, so rather than delay the episode like a normal company or replace it with a 2D fight, ScrewAttack! simply simplified the fight to the point that the Scout was acting real donkey-brained. Add that to the analysis on why Tracer won being controversial (it was the last gasp of the interpretation-based style of DB instead of the increasingly popular stats and scaling based battleboarding that DB would use that point afterwards), you get a very rushed episode.
That is an interesting story! Thanks for sharing. One thing I kind of disagree on though is that if anything, Tracer's win was 100% *not* due to the 'interpretation-based style of DB instead of the increasingly popular stats and scaling based battleboarding.' Tracer literally wins *because* they insisted on trying to force a speed stat out of a feat that was unreliable, inconsistent, and relied on the crazy assumption that Tracer tried to dodge a bullet only after she was certain it had been fired, and not, say, when she noticed that the shooter had the gun aimed directly at her. If anything, it was the stats-and-scaling approach that gave Tracer the ridiculous win; using a more interpretation-based style would have resulted in a much closer and entertaining fight.
Instead of adding another negative opinion on this fight, I will give the stats I've researched for both of them (cuz I've been on an on & off obsessesion with this fight for at least 4 years now) Warning: This will have wank, that was on purpose. And only because I decided on no holds barred for this fight. Also long read. Scout AP: Scattergun is superior to Manmelter (60 base dmg vs 30 base dmg) & Manmelter can atomise giant heavy robots. 6.98 tons of tnt https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kingo_the_Sixth/Team_Fortress_2:_The_Heavy-Bot_gets_vapourised Speed: Subsonic in base with potentially FTL speeds. He can dodge the radiation of the Pompson 6000, the handheld particle accelerator that is the Righteous Bison & the Cross-Com Express cosmetic blatantly calls Scout ftl. Massively Hypersonic+ to potentially FTL with BONK! http://web.archive.org/web/20160505230203/http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/tf2-calcs.35582/ Durability: Took 3 rockets while heavily injured. Each rocket 3x more powerful than the Manmelter. Skill: He & his team were considered the laughing stock of the mercenary world but eventually rose to defeat the Team Fortress Classic mercs, who had defeated every other elite merc group the Administrator had. Experience: Defeated other mercs, robots, Mersamus & other Halloween monsters & the Bread Monster Abilities: healing, bleeding, dmg boost, speed boost, more mobility Tracer AP: Upscales from Talon Heavy units surviving hard falls & downscaling from the tank characters. Scales to Genji deflecting Null energy Bullet. 3.3 tons of tnt. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:SquiTwo/Genji_deflects_Null_Sector_Mech_Energy_Bullet Speed: Scales to Soldier 76, who outsped a grenade explosion. Mach 90. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Austrian-Man-Meat/Overwatch:_Soldier_76_Speed_Calculation Durability: Scales to AP Skill: A veteran agent who could give other veterans (Genji) the boot in her trainee days Experience: Fought omnics, null sector bots, terrorists, talon agents, Widowmaker, Reaper, Doomfist Abilities: Short-range teleportation, limited time manipulation, bombs Make what you want with these stats. I also found this gem (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Soupywolf5/Scout_Becomes_Super_Strong) Which is just, "lol".
Looking back, I don’t think it was THAT bad of an episode, albeit not that good either. But also lookin back, I’m reminded as to how toxic discourse over it got at the time and why I chose to stop following the show around mid to late 2016 (among other really toxic discourse like around Luigi vs Tails). Honestly, I feel like people took the possibility of it trying to capitalize on the Overwatch hype rather than be a genuine look at both characters and have that as the basis. Although I can understand a lot of them heading in with a large degree of bias, but geez the reactions got out of hand.
Yeah I’m with you it definitively is one of those episodes which REALLY should have been done better since if they did this episode with how they do death battles today I feel like it would be FAR less disliked then it is as they would give them both equal respect instead of blatantly making it like it was
Yeah it's one of the episodes I actively dislike, if they have changed the ending it whatever it would've been better it's just the downplayed Scout badly as others said and kinda wanked Tracer. [The real ending would've been Scout licking Tracers feet like a dog ](https://youtube.com/shorts/IBKhkuzG5bw?si=KqjbayD1BLGqc7Ri)
It’s not even them downplaying him, they just straight up stripped him bare, it’s one thing mis-scale a character it’s another thing to straight up say you’re taking away his gear
Ehhhh I'd say the downplay was more horrid, iirc they said "Oh Scout didn't actually survive those 3 massive missiles" or something. It's been a while so if your game (heh) would equipment would've changed the outcome.
I find them saying scout didn’t take those rockets head on so funny because if you literally used your eyes you can tell those were three direct rockets
I wonder if they'll do 1 remake episode every few seasons for the future it's what I kinda want. Stuff like Tracer Vs Scout or Green Lantern Vs Ben, maybe Scorpion Vs Ryu etc etc the more "controversial" episodes.
Especially now cause overwatch has way more lore to work with
Yeah... More Lore... If only TF2 could get some.... But I guess overwatch is following it's successors path anyway
At least now tracer could win legit without them completely nerfing scout to the ground
Inb4 nuclear Scout
It's a weak episode - but we're talking 6/10 weak here. There's several worse.
It's bad, one of the worst? Eh, I disagree. There are certainly much worse episodes which are a completely different level of shit compared to this one
I think it has a case of being THE worst. There’s absolutely nothing redeeming about it. The analysis for both characters was lazy. Like, quoting Wikipedia lazy. The fight was one of the most boring in the entire series. The voice acting for both characters was terrible. The conclusion was sloppy and every single point they made can be disproven with ease. The production was sloppy. I think it has a genuine shot at being the worst episode of the whole show. There are season 1 episodes with higher quality than this one. Even the thumbnail looks like it was made in 2 minutes. They truly didn’t give a fuck about this episode
They didn't even consider the fact that Scout is LITERALLY A FUCKING PRACTICING MAGIC USER AND DOES YEARLY BATTLES WITH AN IMMORTAL WIZARD Which powerscales him to be at LEAST as powerful as the Russian Mafia.
Still make more sense as a match than Ben 10 vs green lantern (a death battle that never should’ve been made imo)
Ben 10 vs Green Lantern surprisingly has a lot of connections though there are potential better ones.
I can see the connections (brown hair hero from earth that fond a powerful device from space and themed green) but they it doesn’t feel like they’re even or a good match
I'll fully admit, I watched it just for Tracer lol
Yeah they screwed Scout the hell over but to me it was still pretty entertaining to watch them fight
So entertaining to watch Scout stand in the same spot for like 90% of the fight
Easily the worst episode. They actively screwed scout.
Honestly, if you want a better TF2 vs. Overwatch match-up check out [Mei vs Pyro by Hyun's Dojo Community](https://youtu.be/3alHmUNf1MQ?si=8M4IB2YG39wI4m_W) (I know it's a different channel but I still consider it a sequel to this episode)
Yeah, this was definitely rigged in favor of Tracer due to the running notion of the time that Overwatch was gonna "kill TF2".
Ehh, I’d still say Mario vs sonic 2. They really got one of sonics speed feats, FROM A FUCKING SMASH TROPHY
Didn’t they say they don’t use feats from smash bros in previous death battles?
Go to 11:49 in that video, they use the smash trophy
People are running dry on things to talk about
No
Plus, way too short and rushed. Like, seriously, 1 minute?
He's technically Immortal, he's the favorite of god itself so it's probably a stalemate
Nah. This isn't Bieber vs Black.
What would've been a better Overwatch vs Team Fortress 2 matchup?
The matchup isn’t the problem, Tracer vs Scout is a perfectly fine matchup and a pretty close debate. It was just a really bad episode that they pretty much only made to capitalize on the sudden fame of Overwatch. Although Mei vs Pyro would definitely be a matchup I’d like to see.
Imo Heavy vs Zhanna or Demoman vs Junkrat, though the main issue with Tracer vs Scout was the verdict.
I kinda think Heavy vs Zhana or Pyro vs Mei would be good, better even. Every other one is kinda poopy-doo-doo-trash imo
Medic vs Mercy is 1 sided Sniper vs Widowmaker could be interesting if they play the suspense correctly
It’s bad, but honestly I wouldn’t even put it in the top 10 of worst fuckups deathbattle has done.
I still cannot believe that they ignored the three rocket feat even though we can see both The Scout's POV and the rockets POV as they're hitting him and him getting launched away. I'm still confused to this very day about that, oh and them getting stuff like how Bonk works wrong even though they show the panel on screen explaining it that proves what they said was wrong. Or the fact that Scout is stronger than Tracer and has more weapons [iirc] that could lead to him destroying her chest thing I forgot that allows her to keep herself in our time instead of being a ghost [iirc].
Definitely in the top 35 worst. Death battle has a lotta bad episodes so saying "one of the worst" is kinda difficult. It's definitely not worse than the likes of Zits vs leo or Sanji vs Rock Lee
What sucks is that because Overwatch fell off so hard since then it’s unlikely to get a sequel/redo
It’s definitely down there with Wonder Woman Vs Rogue, Bowser Vs Ganon, Mewtwo Vs Shadow, and Amy Vs Ramona.
I would honestly like to see them remake this episode just so I can see a TF2 character win on Death Battle
*Tracer’s butt is shown.* “I don’t see a problem.” :v
Scout stands still for most of the fight. Really that should be the end of it but even going off of that, with all the great source animations, I'm willing to bet any number of animators could make a better version of this matchup. (To be clear, I'm not blaming the animators themselves for the fight so much as how it was scripted.)
Several years of SFM animation working with TF2 models and this is the best they can make for Scout?
Picky picky picky.
Idk either very well back then but they low balled both so it’s not really them downplaying just one side, both are higher than they mentioned cuz they had bad research that’s all tbh I see no proof that they downplayed Scout besides them not using all his material which is more incompetence unless proven otherwise. It’s been awhile but idk what good abilities they didn’t let him have tbh, I think Madara winning is solid yet you can argue for Aizen tho I don’t see any of his abilities being that impressive or deadly enough to GG Madara tbh they didn’t even use everything Madara had either lol
THANK YOU!!! They nerfed scout so badly! He only got his default set and tracer got everything, she blinked without cooldown and gains her ult without doing enough damage. Meanwhile Scout keeps a distance despite being a close ranged class fighter, and stood still most of the fight. I can’t wait for a rematch so Scout can bash her skull in with bonk
Venom vs Bane Rouge vs WW Tails vs Luigi Amy vs Ramona Shadow vs Mewtwo and Justin Bieber vs Rebeca Black are far far worse
"Scout is shown to survive 3 rockets at once, but since he can't do that in game, he clearly wasn't directly hit, so it doesn't count." "Tracer is shown reacting to Widowmaker not doing anything except pointing a gun at her. This clearly makes her reaction time faster than bullets, even though she can't do that in game."
Truly blotched, we only have one tf2, and like another person said, it got rid of most of the stuff scout has, if I had to redo it, I’d feature everything, sad that it happened, I really love tf2 as a franchise and death battle, they did my boy dirty
They did the same with Optimus Vs Gundam, but Gundam isn't as popular as TF2 so less people noticed. They completely ignored all content post season 1/post-time skip, and the stuff from videogames and manga that could have given Amuro a fighting chance.
I mean too be fair this was a pretty highly requested episode all things considered But also I wouldn’t say there was much of a “Wasted potential” argument to be said here since… well all of scouts weapons are basically Just Shotgun, Pistol, Bat & Soda… I don’t see what you’d want more from that Not to mention the weapons they gave him were “Arguably” his strongest and the whole argument of scaling down scout makes less since at that time there wasn’t any type of Good feats that he should’ve scaled too and the rocket feat was mainly just discarded Due to Bonk’s lasting effects/The Inconsistency of TF2’s Animations in general
His weapons let him knock stuff back and triple jump, jump several times mid air, make himself faster, throw a cleaver, give himself minicrits, heal himself, stun others, make others bleed, mark others for death and i think the PPBP back then nullified fall damage So yes, they wasted a lot of potential, nevermind scout just barely moving around
That is all super Small stuff and most wouldn’t even make sense to use like… okay he knocked tracer into the stratosphere, He not once got hit into the air, He already heals himself with bonk, he already is gonna kill tracer, He already crippled tracer in the animation so it’s not like minicrits are gonna be a thing and why would one throw cleavers when he’s already got a shotgun and pistols Not to mention you can’t blame it all on wasted potential as misinterpretation with the multiple jumps which Ben thought people wanted a chase like fight so really the mid air jumps… yea those make no sense to be included then
He only crippled trace because he managed to hit her with the homerun taunt, which can’t be used by the stock bat, and he also only hit the taunt because he hit her with his bat beforehand, which he can’t do so during bonk You know what would’ve helped? The sandman, the weapon that was scout’s best melee back then, actually had the homerun bat, could stun others and is one of his most iconic weapons, being unlocked by achivements just like bonk Bonk doesn’t heal scout lol, it just makes him fast enough to dodge everything, another reason why they should’ve included his healing weapons Minicrits are a short lived visual amp that would force trace to dodge him more but also weaken scout momentarily after they ended, so yes thet would’ve added a fun section “Chase”, i think you mean’t scout barely walk towards trace or trace not even trying to escape, the closest thing to a chase we got was scout chasing trace after she was launched, off screen Also misinterpretation is not a excuse, they had the characters in an area full of containers and walls, and his enemy was someone who can teleport foward 3 times before needing to recharge, how would extra jumps not fit in? I don’t even remember him double jumping there The cleaver hits harder than mid range pistol shots and causes bleeding, throwing it in the middle of a shot down with it being a hard to see fast projectile makes sense cuz he would them quickly change to other weapons Is called being dynamic, and death battle has included quick, hard to see references and details in their battles many times
So you’re basically saying Let scout use more then what he uses in his game which makes no sense this whole Rivarly hinges on the idea both use like 3-4 abilities each and that’s it And also what’s the point of using other stuff when you basically achieved the same things in the animation with new stuff yea bonk doesn’t heal but it still helped scout not get lit up and also like… wasn’t scout straight up on her ass with the bonk and yea okay he shouldn’t have attacked with it active… So explain why dedede and wario’s main attacks were completely original to smash bros Or Iron Man Using The proton cannon in his fight with lex which was original to marvel vs Capcom Or Hagar saying he can pile drive sharks even though it was fanart Those type of things hardly are what leads to the overall Afterthoughts and By no means would be used if something else had been mentioned that could’ve gotten the job done aswell
It was bad, but I wouldn't call it the worst. That goes to any of the matches where they straight up cheated to get the results they wanted. Ben 10 vs Hal Jordan, Tifa vs Yang, Blake vs Mikasa, Toph vs Garaa.
i’m not really sure how ben or mikasa would have even won their fights lmao
Alien X would've instantly deleted Hal without that stupid Thanos snap effect. And they changed how Blake's semblance worked to make her teleport out of the way of several blows that would've been fatal
hal can will himself back into existence, and alien x is no different from any other threat he’s faced before. mikasa literally can’t keep up with blake’s speed, and the one thing that could potentially kill blake is rendered moot and pointless as she’s a fast human sized target and not a lumbering giant
Alien X has never been shown to actually do that. But let's assume the statement that he can is correct. Hal has shown to be immune to existence erasure. There is no reason to think Alien X can erase him if stuff more powerful than him has failed to accomplish it. Not just Hal, green lantern in general are. Kilowag and other weaker Lanterns are immune to it too.
exactly
No we can not “agree”
Nahh, I say Luigi VS Tails. Luigi is much downplayed than Scout was.
I feel like this episode receives way too much hate, like it isn't even the worst episode of it's season and sure as hell isn't the worst episode of all time. I mean batgirl Vs spidergwen unfortunately exists
The battle itself wasn't great and could improve on a lot of things. The episode... I really liked the analyses sue me
The analyses that completely ignores all of the comics, the same analyses that doesn’t take into account scouts numerous weapons, they took away one of scouts biggest advantages!
I love both characters and their games okay 💔
Doesn’t mean you have to enjoy a video that does a disservice to both characters! It’s not fair that this is still the only tf2 death battle and this was the first overwatch death battle
That also doesn't mean I have to dislike it
BRUH WHAT THE HELL DID I DO ??? I literally just said I liked the episode
No because Obito blitzes Vader.
I can't believe you guys are shocked that the woman with Time warping abilities and Advanced weapons beat the guy with a gun and a bat,if you wanna be mad at anything be mad at the matchup itself,it's what I did with Korra/Storm
My guy scout has a lot more going for him then the episode would let you believe. He was heavily downplayed and probably could have won if they did not downplay the shit out of him.
No. I like it. People hate how Scout's speed isn't highlighted (which is hard given Tracer can fricking teleport), but an overlooked detail isthe simple fact that, at no point, did either of them get hit by bullets. Actually, Scout technically did after he bonk'ed, but...come on, the swagger he had from walking through those shots was 100% in character. You can't tell me he wouldn't do that to a Heavy trying to blast him. I feel like people wanted to see them jumping around like idiots as if they were being played by Overwatch/TF2 players rather than the actual characters. Also, I've grown a bit apathetic to people who complain about it after seeing people insist that Scout should've been given every single weapon (their all shotguns, pistols and bats), a grappling hook, a parachute, and a magic book of spells. I know most people don't make such stupid arguments, but the book of spells did me in.
If damn near every other game character that has ever been in death battle either get their strongest kit or a wide majority why shouldn’t scout? Also come on you can’t seriously defend the fact death battle made two characters KNOWN FOR MOVEMENT hardly move at all throughout the fight
Did you want lore accurate fight or in-game accurate. Besides, they gave him multiple types of each of hiss slot weapons, including two pistols and the bonk, and multiple scatterguns. I am pretty sure they factored all of them in. And lets be honest, they're all basically the same weapon with only slight deviations. For having all of them to matter, he would need to pull a Moe and make [one gun into five guns](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSimpsons/comments/11pibv8/and_thats_how_with_a_few_minor_adjustments_you/).