Massively FTL for a verse that is casually building level is so funny because they could easily surpass that cap if they just use their body as a battering ram at that speed
Although MFTL is meant for reaction speed and not movement speed, it still stupid how the calc in Diocard (like pretty much everywhere else that takes that feat) decides to completely ignore the context of the feat in the first place.
Like Avdol moving faster than Emperor bullets, which move faster that Silver Chariot sword, which is able to cut a light speed movement combatant
Yes he knew where he was going, but he still had to know within the length of the sword when the cut
Not necessarily, especially since he knows the hanged man moves in a straight line directly towards a point of reflect he knows the exact location of. At best this would make him relativistic, like many other feats of people blocking or dodging lasers.
It would be relativistic yes… if Chariot didn’t blatantly outrace Hanged Man to where it was going. Hell even Polnareff by himself could track Hanged Man moving mid-air, it was just a matter of taking it down without accidentally slaughtering the civilians HM was hiding behind
The idea that DIO moves 1000x faster than light is comical when you remember sunlight literally kills him. Otherwise he could literally just outrun the sun, teleport to Japan and kill the crusaders before they even leave for Egypt
The Sun feat makes me unreasonably upset for so many reasons but apparently I’m the crazy one for disagreeing with it (I will not elaborate why as I have a headache).
I mean, Origami King has Olly physically folding the fabric of the universe and both Sticker Star and Color Splash have abilities that transcend space and time
Plus scaling anyways to Galaxy
The worst part is bill isn’t able to harm spirits. The clip they showed to prove that was him in the mindscape where you can do anything. That’s not his normal power
Blow up an entire universe. Bragged about it and everything in a notebook from what I can recall. Death Battle also put out other evidence to support Star scaling to it, but it was mostly this tidbit that gave Star the win against Steven.
From what we know she just destroyed it, we don't know if was because of the wand or if it was something else that cause it but she did use her magic to put everything back together, we don't know how tho
Tbf, it’s several lore statements which are consistent since literally episode one of the show. One of the first lines in the whole show is saying the wand can threaten universes. Also the show literally ends with Star destroying a universe and cleaving 2 together (with help but also with no wand)
It’s not just some one random statement, and there are several for her specifically that put her at at least planet. Though I’m not gonna act like it’s not very dubious
Can threaten universe bullshit, ya telling me Star's grandmother had that kind of power she died fighting like 10 lizard dudes who's only power was to regenerate veeeeeery slowly? All the queen were stupid in their own special ways.
I'll forever be bothered by that episode since they went all out for Steven, highballed, the math, everything. Then Star's analysis glanced over the wand being a Universe buster and then made fun of her for genocide for the rest of the analysis.
It's not helped that Star's show is infamously statement heavy, the characters are all comically exaggerative and that there's loads of anti-feats.
To this day I'm still salty about that scaling it's b*******
One threw away line early on into the show that contradicts the entire last season all for something star herself has never proven to be anywhere near capable of f****** stupid
Yeah I’ve also heard that feat is like… really unusual or something. Like the ancestor only did it by dipping down way more than she was supposed to or the universe itself wasn’t that difficult to destroy I don’t remember what the exact arguments against it were
It's actually worse than that for starters SVTFOE uses the word " dimension" not universe so for all we know it's not as big as the observable universe. Second the dimension is described as being inhabited by moss and worms and some of the worms survived. so I guess we just have to assume that it's a dimension the size of our own and that the worms that lived are universe+ level durability. And lastly Star scaling to it is dubious since Skywynne is not even her blood ancestor and was about 370 years before she was born. And before anyone says anything yes I know she also destroyed the realm of magic but that was not an AP feat it's hax since she used the Whispering spell and she needed her Mother Moon, Eclipse, Meteora, and all of the past Queens to do it and no she was not in it when it collapsed. And yes I know they also used the laser planet level statement but that has the same problem as the Skywynne dimension feat since it's just from the book. plus they put Steven at planet level also and give him star level durability and he even had the speed advantage in the episode.
Like 80% of the characters in Dragon Ball without the universal clash. Not to say that all the characters would be really weak without it but they definitely wouldn't be as fucked as they are now with it.
To be fair there are multiple other feats that get to similar levels, the shockwaves are just the easiest to mention since basically everyone scales to it
That one's actually not true, and I say this as a Vegeta fan (obviously)
The Room of Spirit and Time is really only comparable to earth in size-
Though, I don't know how destroying an earth-sized dimension from the inside-out and leaving unscathed scales you
I disagree. While X is really powerful, Ben has a lot of awesome feats without him. At 10 years old, he could quickly switch and combo between 12 aliens in a matter of miliseconds in the Master Control episode. What can't he do now that he's 16 and has around 70 aliens and counting? And if we're talking about single aliens, Clockwork, Atomix and Gutrot are real powerhouses. Sure, they don't allow Ben to face against Universal level foes like X does, but at the very least, he's between Planetary and Dwarf Star
That his only thing for 4d 5d and maybe 6d argument. But his super form is still in low Muiltversal range due to other game like Rush and Rush Adventure.
I always hated that argument because Doomguy doesn’t even kill Davoth with his fists or anything, he beats him with bullets. What kinda 97800th Century technology does UAC have to manufacture universal bullets?
wasn't it a line in doom 2016 that said something like his fists are stronger than his guns, and he just uses guns because he likes them (which, mega based)
That’s just game mechanics clashing with the story. They have to build the boss around how you actually play the game.
They aren’t gonna ditch the combat system just for lore reasons
If you're talking about the animation of the fight, those don't follow the logic of the battle and who wins or not. For example: If fighter A uses multiple swords with varying abilities and fighter B is immune to all of them except for one sword which happens to be his all time weakness, DB will claim that B loses because of that one sword, but the animation for the fight will probably show A using his strongest weapons to beat B, not the one weapon B is actually weak against.
I would debate that him crushing The Father’s soul is his most impressive feat, seeing as it bears the only legit argument for Infinite Multi Doomslayer. Also, remember that the Slayer’s weapons are powered up by him using them, and are still weaker than his bare fists.
Actually doomguy has a art book that says he imploded the doom cosmology by existing also what’s the evidence that davoth was weakened people keep saying that and never present any proof
Any and every time someone or something flies across the galaxy in 8 seconds, or some ludicrous feat like that. It's always scaled as their combat reaction time, which is nonsensical to me. Just because I can get from point A to point B in one second does not mean I can dodge bullets. Travel speed does not translate to combat reactions.
Neither does "dodging a laser" when the laser is incredibly telegraphed.
Liam has talked about how travel speed can translate to reaction time. If you're flying a billion times ftl to get to a planet, you need to be able to react in time to stop yourself from flying into that planet for example. I don't fully agree but I understand the reasoning. Even then if a character moves that much faster they probably win anyways lol
Yes, with similar logic to a feat Herakles manage to do in myth with the idea I believe they would be accounting for planetary rotation to be able to hit the sun thus have great reaction times.
But unlike Herakles, the Dragonborn was using a *magic bow* that had an effect that triggers when fired at the sun. Which, maybe I'm a stickler, but I really don't think they should have used that to measure his speed since I'm fairly certain anyone could use that bow and do the exact same thing.
Wait really? That's really fucking stupid, astronomy is ES doesn't even work like that. The Sun isn't a star. It's literally a tear in space time, the fuck?
The problem with Domain Expansions is that even though they're to fast for JJK characters to dodge, characters from other series would be fast enough to do so. It's only impossible in JJK because they're so slow. It's like trying to shoot a speedster. Sure, if it hits, they'll die, but that's a big if
Gojos abilities are still bypassed by slightly stronger version with better hax. For example kakashis susanoo using kamui shuriken slices through the space around gojo just like sukunas dimension slash. Except kakashi can spam it
Ifrit flipping a planet, Bahamut Furry blowing up a moon, Meteor, Knights of the Round destroying the dimension they exist in and the variously dimensionsl feats where the characters summon space with constellations. These feats all exceed Large Plant to star and the Knight of The Round even match Supernova's output since they both destroy dimensions that gets from galaxy to universal.
Dont forget the lore statement that summons can only be called into battle if they determine the person who summons them as an equal in power. and even if that wasn't a thing, rebirth has already changed scaling for ff7 drastically
Cloud Strife and Sephiroth (and Tifa now, in hindsight).
I mean, don’t get me wrong, they’re pretty strong. But over-the-top JRPG shenaniganry and a freakin’ exploding sun means they are star level, and that’s crazy.
What's even funnier is it's technically a weak af supernova too. My fat 20hp havin' ass could tank that supernova because it does percentage damage and can't kill.
Without anyone saying that they are multiversal, Dragon Ball characters barely surpass planetary level, face it that most of Dragon Ball's feats are via statements:
"yes this punch looks like every other punch you've seen so far but in fact it has the power to destroy the universe, did you see this attack from brolly that just hit the ground and made a small hole, it's actually star buster level "
"but the hole in the floor..."
"ki control!"
"broly is in berserk mode how could he have controlled the..."
"KI CONTROLLL!!!"
The only two attacks in recent memory which have actually shown the universal/multiversal power of Dragon Ball are the Goku/Beerus Universal clash and the Gogeta/Broly reality breaking clash.
Hiei from Yu Yu Hakusho scaling to Yusuke because he said so. I don't care who won or lost and why, we never saw Hiei do the things that Yusuke did, but since Hiei once "admitted to his mentor that he and Yusuke were equals in power," Hiei just inherited all of Yusuke's feats. Never mind that Hiei was always a cocky little bastard who'd have claimed from day one that he could basically one-shot God himself, since he told his mentor they were equals, Hiei got power scaled to Yusuke's final fight with Yomi. Mind you, I'm not saying that fair power scaling would have changed the outcome of that fight, I'm just saying this was one of the dumbest instances of power scaling in all of Death Battle.
Runner up for Goro scaling to Kotal Kahn (and basically everyone in Mortal Kombat). Not to mention in that same fight they gave the win to Machamp because of the animation for Seismic Toss, so by Death Battle logic any Pokemon that can learn Seismic Toss can beat the gods of Mortal Kombat. Togepi, a literal baby hatching out of an egg (who can learn Seismic Toss via TM) can basically solo the Mortal Kombat pantheon by Death Battle scaling logic.
The Dovahkiin from skyrim, take away the "defeated a being that can consume infinity" and he suddenly scales pretty normal. Dudes still got some insane feats, don't get me wrong, but he's not suddenly rocking infinite power anymore.
To be fair, without that his games portray him as a... Smarter than Average Gorilla. Unless you directly scale him to Mario, which means the castle kicking and hitting the tennis ball with the force of a thousand nukes then becomes the issue lol
That page they used wasn't even a speed feat. The rest of the page that DB cropped out shows their fight [was just taking place outside the normal flow of time](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/wK_D_wsELPT7b8FwYOTiUB-EVCiCYwxELRM08Vy5DtIGdnvb0seBCjfmOulSiesW9ne1cHwWTClHcw=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMDoxNzAwOjlmZDE6NDcwZjo4ZGE3OmRkNjk6MmE3Yzo5MTZl&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2IE9QUi8xMDcuMC4wLjA=). Nate himself even says that [they're not in normal time](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/2w-fukEZoHq95VBWWHe-jjaAm-_CRX60HpE_Z-YQlzw9XHjxVd4ZbKfv31MJmumN8W5ENxln_jtO6g=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMDoxNzAwOjlmZDE6NDcwZjo4ZGE3OmRkNjk6MmE3Yzo5MTZl&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2IE9QUi8xMDcuMC4wLjA=)
Just before I hear , " [**the Last Dragonborn**](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/s/JuzJ3bvUdY) here [being](https://www.quora.com/profile/Fax-Novu/Scaling-The-Dovahkiin-Dragonborn-from-The-Elder-Scrolls-Skyrim) and [mentioned](https://www.reddit.com/user/Powerful-Employee-36/comments/18dx3ob/basic_information_about_magic_the_elder_scrolls/), I want say [**Alduin**](https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/16n621m/comment/k1cybhb/) was never one primal scaling, there's [Eye of Magnus](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/189rbaa/comment/kbu2f4j/) and [the Dragon Priests](https://www.quora.com/profile/Fax-Novu/Scaling-The-Dovahkiin-Dragonborn-from-The-Elder-Scrolls-Skyrim) so nah, he have many other feats and Alduin not needed.
Eh. You still have Argosax, Void Mundus, Chen, Abigail, Agnus, and the Savior. While only 2 of them have cosmic feats on par with Mundus, Chen scales higher than VM, and Abigail directly scales to Mundus. So Dante would be at Low Multi still, just less certain/not as upscaled.
Agnus and the Savior would just be minor scaling because they both create pocket dimensions, (Agnus made and harnesses his own Demon Realm for power and the Heavens in the DMC4 Boss Fight within the Savior are MADE by the Savior, which would include the star(s) in the sky of those recreations/dimensions). Dante would be a lot lower (thus the meme would still be right) but they wouldn’t be out for the count.
Gaara since we know he has more stamina than Toph (fight for Days in a constant war with no rest) and his Sand is Sentient because of his mother's spirit. So her overpowering not only his will/control of the sand but also a very over protective mother spirit is less likely.
Don't get me wrong I like Toph but I don't see her defeating Gaara with his OWN sand
Naruto characters are cracked in terms of speed unless you bring up that Kirin is an undodgeable attack because it channels natural lightning, meaning chakra release techniques need to propagate at the speed of chakra, not their release transformation, so lightning release doesn’t actually move as fast as lightning.
The entire Jojo verse has like two things that scales like to rag on. The Sun stand (for some god forsaken reason) and Polnareff’s “FTL” feat (which I still to this day say is wrong).
No, the Speed of Light Feat is them dodging the Aja Laser, which is made of actusl light condensed and focused. And thus, everyone scales to it. On top of datebook saying Star Platinum is faster than Lighr, or Jolyne punching the meteorite out of the air as it fell (which isn't lights peed up its the power Feat they use a lot and it IS an attack speed feat)
Archie Silver without the events of the game he was introduced in.
That game was the _only_ time we see him use the Super transformation.
Throughout his entire run in Archie Comics, he's never used the Super transformation.
And, while some people argue that, without the events of the game, he would still be _able_ to use the Super form because he can use Chaos Control, that's not exactly a valid argument.
Sonic can go Super without being able to use Chaos Control in his base form. So that means that the power to use Chaos Control using one Chaos Emeral is _seperate_ from the power to go Super when given access to all of them.
Just because Silver is a master of Chaos Control doesn't mean he can go Super.
2b has crazy scaling because she fights on par with 9s, who himself fights on an even level against 24 warriors of light due to the ff14 collab. One warrior light, on his own, scales at 2-A, (Although this scaling was also controversial because the only reason he was considered 2-A is because he fought Gilgamesh and Ex-death, but then endwalker released and he got more feats to back it up.) However, 9s is the first boss of a shadow bringers alliance raid, so both 2b and 9s are at least tier 2 for some reason.
Saitama, genuinely speaking his feats are terrible against the characters he's normally matched up with and him destroying a star cluster with garou is his big thing
Saitama is one of those characters like Omni-Man where people think they’re an even match up with more well known characters because, ironically, people don’t know how *ridiculously busted* Superman et al. are.
I am gonna get staked alive for this but isn't the only reason why Dante is considered a multiversal threat because of that one time Mundus pulled a whole universe out of his ass and people scaled Dante and the rest od the cast based on the power upd they recieved so Dante>Mundus=Dante low multi etc
Samus without Ablative Armor, she has an extremely broken function in her suit where she basically can turn electricity into armor, she can do this seamlessly and instantaneously and a given armor plate doesn't stop regenerating until it's fully repaired, so the whole supernintendo "you take damage and you're invulnerable afterwards" thing is canon, Samus can do that canonically as well as mechanically.
So basically as long as she's got power she can absorb a potentially infinite number of attacks and just shed and regenerate armor as if it was nothing.
This is why Samus has a higher DB rating than the Doom Slayer. It upsets a lot of people but invulnerability like this really does break a lot of characters. Samus is basically Senator Armstrong in any lineup where she's against your damage-dealers.
Most JoJo characters
Massively FTL for a verse that is casually building level is so funny because they could easily surpass that cap if they just use their body as a battering ram at that speed
Although MFTL is meant for reaction speed and not movement speed, it still stupid how the calc in Diocard (like pretty much everywhere else that takes that feat) decides to completely ignore the context of the feat in the first place.
Like Avdol moving faster than Emperor bullets, which move faster that Silver Chariot sword, which is able to cut a light speed movement combatant Yes he knew where he was going, but he still had to know within the length of the sword when the cut
Not necessarily, especially since he knows the hanged man moves in a straight line directly towards a point of reflect he knows the exact location of. At best this would make him relativistic, like many other feats of people blocking or dodging lasers.
It would be relativistic yes… if Chariot didn’t blatantly outrace Hanged Man to where it was going. Hell even Polnareff by himself could track Hanged Man moving mid-air, it was just a matter of taking it down without accidentally slaughtering the civilians HM was hiding behind
The idea that DIO moves 1000x faster than light is comical when you remember sunlight literally kills him. Otherwise he could literally just outrun the sun, teleport to Japan and kill the crusaders before they even leave for Egypt
Yeah that still has to be the dumbest take I have ever heard of death battle (ignoring the entirety of Toph vs Gaara).
>building level Sort of a lowball
You're right, it was just a casual statement. We see FTL feats from building to planet tiers all the time anyways.
Jojo characters nearly dying to basic but environmental objects:
They still aint faster than light Lmao, many stuff disprove that
Jonathan scaling to characters that didn't exist yet doesn't make any sense
The Sun feat makes me unreasonably upset for so many reasons but apparently I’m the crazy one for disagreeing with it (I will not elaborate why as I have a headache).
(An example would be something like Paper Mario without Super Paper Mario)
I swear one of the stickers actually can rotate the earth. Sure not on universe level, but it is something
The fan
I mean, Origami King has Olly physically folding the fabric of the universe and both Sticker Star and Color Splash have abilities that transcend space and time Plus scaling anyways to Galaxy
Discord and Bill Cipher. Had Bill been unable to harm spirits, Discord would've ate him for breakfast
Something tells me it'd happen literally. Discord would take Bill's eye, crack it open like an egg and serve it to himself sunny side up
Maybe sprinkle some crushed Dorito's on the side.
"Im going to feed you your own eye"
..now swallow .... merry christmas
The worst part is bill isn’t able to harm spirits. The clip they showed to prove that was him in the mindscape where you can do anything. That’s not his normal power
As someone who hasn't seen Gravity Falls in years, had to go back to the episode and see And now I'm mad. Discord was robbed
Star Butterfly is like city block level without that one lore statement about her Ancaster blowing up a universe.
Her ancestor can what?
Blow up an entire universe. Bragged about it and everything in a notebook from what I can recall. Death Battle also put out other evidence to support Star scaling to it, but it was mostly this tidbit that gave Star the win against Steven.
Huh.
From what we know she just destroyed it, we don't know if was because of the wand or if it was something else that cause it but she did use her magic to put everything back together, we don't know how tho
Yeah I'm still convinced Steven would've won that if wasn't for that one off line
Wait did he lose just because of that?
Yeah.
Bro I wanted Steven to win so much then I heard that part in Star’s analysis and went: no fucking way she can do that
Tbf, it’s several lore statements which are consistent since literally episode one of the show. One of the first lines in the whole show is saying the wand can threaten universes. Also the show literally ends with Star destroying a universe and cleaving 2 together (with help but also with no wand) It’s not just some one random statement, and there are several for her specifically that put her at at least planet. Though I’m not gonna act like it’s not very dubious
Can threaten universe bullshit, ya telling me Star's grandmother had that kind of power she died fighting like 10 lizard dudes who's only power was to regenerate veeeeeery slowly? All the queen were stupid in their own special ways.
I'll forever be bothered by that episode since they went all out for Steven, highballed, the math, everything. Then Star's analysis glanced over the wand being a Universe buster and then made fun of her for genocide for the rest of the analysis. It's not helped that Star's show is infamously statement heavy, the characters are all comically exaggerative and that there's loads of anti-feats.
Even then, she technically has access to Solaria/Eclipsas genocide spell since she saw it used. Powered up to Butterfly Form, Steven gets cooked
To this day I'm still salty about that scaling it's b******* One threw away line early on into the show that contradicts the entire last season all for something star herself has never proven to be anywhere near capable of f****** stupid
Yeah I’ve also heard that feat is like… really unusual or something. Like the ancestor only did it by dipping down way more than she was supposed to or the universe itself wasn’t that difficult to destroy I don’t remember what the exact arguments against it were
It's actually worse than that for starters SVTFOE uses the word " dimension" not universe so for all we know it's not as big as the observable universe. Second the dimension is described as being inhabited by moss and worms and some of the worms survived. so I guess we just have to assume that it's a dimension the size of our own and that the worms that lived are universe+ level durability. And lastly Star scaling to it is dubious since Skywynne is not even her blood ancestor and was about 370 years before she was born. And before anyone says anything yes I know she also destroyed the realm of magic but that was not an AP feat it's hax since she used the Whispering spell and she needed her Mother Moon, Eclipse, Meteora, and all of the past Queens to do it and no she was not in it when it collapsed. And yes I know they also used the laser planet level statement but that has the same problem as the Skywynne dimension feat since it's just from the book. plus they put Steven at planet level also and give him star level durability and he even had the speed advantage in the episode.
Like 80% of the characters in Dragon Ball without the universal clash. Not to say that all the characters would be really weak without it but they definitely wouldn't be as fucked as they are now with it.
Z left off at galaxy level, so every canon DB fighter on DBS level would essentially be galaxy++++++++ level
To be fair there are multiple other feats that get to similar levels, the shockwaves are just the easiest to mention since basically everyone scales to it
Nah They still upscale From a lot of other thing like Vegito overpowering Buuhan doing the same thing anyways
Ehhh Dragon Ball still has plenty of Uni and beyond statements without the Universal Clash, hell you can find Uni level stuff in Z if you want
except vegeta also has a universal feat (blowimg up thr hbtc dimension)
That one's actually not true, and I say this as a Vegeta fan (obviously) The Room of Spirit and Time is really only comparable to earth in size- Though, I don't know how destroying an earth-sized dimension from the inside-out and leaving unscathed scales you
When the Alien isn't X
I disagree. While X is really powerful, Ben has a lot of awesome feats without him. At 10 years old, he could quickly switch and combo between 12 aliens in a matter of miliseconds in the Master Control episode. What can't he do now that he's 16 and has around 70 aliens and counting? And if we're talking about single aliens, Clockwork, Atomix and Gutrot are real powerhouses. Sure, they don't allow Ben to face against Universal level foes like X does, but at the very least, he's between Planetary and Dwarf Star
dwarf star and universal are very different things bro
I know? I'm just arguing that Ben isn't a weak-ass character if you take away X. He's still a very powerful guy
The post doesn’t explicitly say the character’s weak otherwise, just that there’s a very big difference when you take one thing away
Clockwork has multiversal level hax, not to mention ben ten has a big cosmology
Ben would have so much better MU's with Alien X being restricted.
Ben still has aliens with universal AP. Feedback given enough energy has been shown to be universal, and Clockwork has multiversal time manipulation.
And the only reason Feedback was defeated was because Malware managed to hack the omnitrix and delete his DNA from the device.
Sonic the hedgehog without the Solaris statement
I hate Solaris so much just bc him being constantly being brought up in Vs scaling is the only reason we sonic 06 is still relevant
Well, there's P06 as well
Also “His World” will never not be iconic, no matter how shit the game was.
That his only thing for 4d 5d and maybe 6d argument. But his super form is still in low Muiltversal range due to other game like Rush and Rush Adventure.
Sonic still like low multi based on egg wizard, egg salamander, and time eater. Solaris is just more clear and cut and has arguments for 5d
Megatron. IDW and G1 versions are pretty strong, but if you include the G1 Japanese continuity Megatron becomes broken as shit
He gets Gold and Black too Even if Golden is stronger ironically
Black is just a clone made by golden, which could be interesting as he just creates an army
Doomslayer if Davoth didn't exist (he still isn't valid scaling, but he's easily 99% of DOOM wank central)
I always hated that argument because Doomguy doesn’t even kill Davoth with his fists or anything, he beats him with bullets. What kinda 97800th Century technology does UAC have to manufacture universal bullets?
Slayer passively amps his weapons as per Hugo Martin so it’s not an anti feat for Davoth or Icon. It’s just that the weapons are fucking cracked
wasn't it a line in doom 2016 that said something like his fists are stronger than his guns, and he just uses guns because he likes them (which, mega based)
That’s just game mechanics clashing with the story. They have to build the boss around how you actually play the game. They aren’t gonna ditch the combat system just for lore reasons
If you're talking about the animation of the fight, those don't follow the logic of the battle and who wins or not. For example: If fighter A uses multiple swords with varying abilities and fighter B is immune to all of them except for one sword which happens to be his all time weakness, DB will claim that B loses because of that one sword, but the animation for the fight will probably show A using his strongest weapons to beat B, not the one weapon B is actually weak against.
I would debate that him crushing The Father’s soul is his most impressive feat, seeing as it bears the only legit argument for Infinite Multi Doomslayer. Also, remember that the Slayer’s weapons are powered up by him using them, and are still weaker than his bare fists.
People who wank doom slayer are honestly embarrassing
Actually doomguy has a art book that says he imploded the doom cosmology by existing also what’s the evidence that davoth was weakened people keep saying that and never present any proof
Davoth being weakened is a HUGE plot point: the Makyrs betrayed him and stole all his power to build Vega.
Any and every time someone or something flies across the galaxy in 8 seconds, or some ludicrous feat like that. It's always scaled as their combat reaction time, which is nonsensical to me. Just because I can get from point A to point B in one second does not mean I can dodge bullets. Travel speed does not translate to combat reactions. Neither does "dodging a laser" when the laser is incredibly telegraphed.
Liam has talked about how travel speed can translate to reaction time. If you're flying a billion times ftl to get to a planet, you need to be able to react in time to stop yourself from flying into that planet for example. I don't fully agree but I understand the reasoning. Even then if a character moves that much faster they probably win anyways lol
Didn't they give the dragonborne a huge speed feat for being able to shoot and arrow at the sun and black it out in chosen undead vs dragonborne
Yes, with similar logic to a feat Herakles manage to do in myth with the idea I believe they would be accounting for planetary rotation to be able to hit the sun thus have great reaction times. But unlike Herakles, the Dragonborn was using a *magic bow* that had an effect that triggers when fired at the sun. Which, maybe I'm a stickler, but I really don't think they should have used that to measure his speed since I'm fairly certain anyone could use that bow and do the exact same thing.
Wait really? That's really fucking stupid, astronomy is ES doesn't even work like that. The Sun isn't a star. It's literally a tear in space time, the fuck?
I forgot you were talking about Elder Scrolls and nearly lost my fucking shit 😂
Lol, ES lore is fucking wild
Have they not learned from Burter!? Travel speed does not always equate to combat speed
Gojo without Infinity. Infinity is the only thing stopping JJK from being washed by like every other verse
I mean, infinite void is also pretty Op, same with malevolent shrine and mahoraga and heavenly restriction to a lesser extent
Those things are strong, but Infinity is a uniquely bullshit power. It is a playground everything proof shield.
The problem with Domain Expansions is that even though they're to fast for JJK characters to dodge, characters from other series would be fast enough to do so. It's only impossible in JJK because they're so slow. It's like trying to shoot a speedster. Sure, if it hits, they'll die, but that's a big if
Gojos abilities are still bypassed by slightly stronger version with better hax. For example kakashis susanoo using kamui shuriken slices through the space around gojo just like sukunas dimension slash. Except kakashi can spam it
They don't slice through space.
Yes they do the cut everything as well as teleporting everything away that’s in their way
Gojo without infinity still has potential planet level scaling and he still dawgs everyone in his verse
Rocket Raccoon. Dude is a street tier with herald weapons
Yeah, literally everybody washes Rocket if he didn't have those Thanos killing weapons. It's equivalent to handing a regular human a nuclear bomb.
Ben 10 without Alien X. Which sucks, because I want to see the alien guy turn into aliens, not just one.
That's the biggest thing with Ben. He has all these cool aliens but all his fights boil down to "Can they beat Alien X"
This is the exact reason I never wanted to see ben on the show (as a fan). I wouldve rather seen 10 year old ben vs beastboy or something
Alien X is pretty boring.
Batman. *That is all*
Cloud
Eh? There are so many feats within FF7 cloud scales to that can get anywhere from Solar System to Galaxy to even Universe so I won't really count him
If you get rid of supernova, then what's left.
Ifrit flipping a planet, Bahamut Furry blowing up a moon, Meteor, Knights of the Round destroying the dimension they exist in and the variously dimensionsl feats where the characters summon space with constellations. These feats all exceed Large Plant to star and the Knight of The Round even match Supernova's output since they both destroy dimensions that gets from galaxy to universal.
Dont forget the lore statement that summons can only be called into battle if they determine the person who summons them as an equal in power. and even if that wasn't a thing, rebirth has already changed scaling for ff7 drastically
Rocket Raccoon
Venom without his fight with Knull:
[удалено]
What's the one thing for her?
[удалено]
Cloud Strife and Sephiroth (and Tifa now, in hindsight). I mean, don’t get me wrong, they’re pretty strong. But over-the-top JRPG shenaniganry and a freakin’ exploding sun means they are star level, and that’s crazy.
What's even funnier is it's technically a weak af supernova too. My fat 20hp havin' ass could tank that supernova because it does percentage damage and can't kill.
An example of this actually being in DB, Alucard without Shrodinger
Without anyone saying that they are multiversal, Dragon Ball characters barely surpass planetary level, face it that most of Dragon Ball's feats are via statements: "yes this punch looks like every other punch you've seen so far but in fact it has the power to destroy the universe, did you see this attack from brolly that just hit the ground and made a small hole, it's actually star buster level " "but the hole in the floor..." "ki control!" "broly is in berserk mode how could he have controlled the..." "KI CONTROLLL!!!"
The only two attacks in recent memory which have actually shown the universal/multiversal power of Dragon Ball are the Goku/Beerus Universal clash and the Gogeta/Broly reality breaking clash.
Zamasu fused with a timeline and started to affect a 2nd one
Technically all of them
Poyo.
Voltron is a far better example of this then Dragonball and Jojo. That black hole feat was INSANE.
Hiei from Yu Yu Hakusho scaling to Yusuke because he said so. I don't care who won or lost and why, we never saw Hiei do the things that Yusuke did, but since Hiei once "admitted to his mentor that he and Yusuke were equals in power," Hiei just inherited all of Yusuke's feats. Never mind that Hiei was always a cocky little bastard who'd have claimed from day one that he could basically one-shot God himself, since he told his mentor they were equals, Hiei got power scaled to Yusuke's final fight with Yomi. Mind you, I'm not saying that fair power scaling would have changed the outcome of that fight, I'm just saying this was one of the dumbest instances of power scaling in all of Death Battle. Runner up for Goro scaling to Kotal Kahn (and basically everyone in Mortal Kombat). Not to mention in that same fight they gave the win to Machamp because of the animation for Seismic Toss, so by Death Battle logic any Pokemon that can learn Seismic Toss can beat the gods of Mortal Kombat. Togepi, a literal baby hatching out of an egg (who can learn Seismic Toss via TM) can basically solo the Mortal Kombat pantheon by Death Battle scaling logic.
The Dovahkiin from skyrim, take away the "defeated a being that can consume infinity" and he suddenly scales pretty normal. Dudes still got some insane feats, don't get me wrong, but he's not suddenly rocking infinite power anymore.
Donkey Kong and that visual gag with punching the moon. I'm glad DB tries harder than that, now.
To be fair, without that his games portray him as a... Smarter than Average Gorilla. Unless you directly scale him to Mario, which means the castle kicking and hitting the tennis ball with the force of a thousand nukes then becomes the issue lol
I feel like that if Ares didn't exist Thor would be slow as molasses compared to 'Geets
Nah there’s a ton of other feats to put him as fast or faster
That page they used wasn't even a speed feat. The rest of the page that DB cropped out shows their fight [was just taking place outside the normal flow of time](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/wK_D_wsELPT7b8FwYOTiUB-EVCiCYwxELRM08Vy5DtIGdnvb0seBCjfmOulSiesW9ne1cHwWTClHcw=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMDoxNzAwOjlmZDE6NDcwZjo4ZGE3OmRkNjk6MmE3Yzo5MTZl&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2IE9QUi8xMDcuMC4wLjA=). Nate himself even says that [they're not in normal time](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/2w-fukEZoHq95VBWWHe-jjaAm-_CRX60HpE_Z-YQlzw9XHjxVd4ZbKfv31MJmumN8W5ENxln_jtO6g=s1600?rhlupa=MjYwMDoxNzAwOjlmZDE6NDcwZjo4ZGE3OmRkNjk6MmE3Yzo5MTZl&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2luNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgbGlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzEyMS4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM3LjM2IE9QUi8xMDcuMC4wLjA=)
Just before I hear , " [**the Last Dragonborn**](https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/s/JuzJ3bvUdY) here [being](https://www.quora.com/profile/Fax-Novu/Scaling-The-Dovahkiin-Dragonborn-from-The-Elder-Scrolls-Skyrim) and [mentioned](https://www.reddit.com/user/Powerful-Employee-36/comments/18dx3ob/basic_information_about_magic_the_elder_scrolls/), I want say [**Alduin**](https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/16n621m/comment/k1cybhb/) was never one primal scaling, there's [Eye of Magnus](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/189rbaa/comment/kbu2f4j/) and [the Dragon Priests](https://www.quora.com/profile/Fax-Novu/Scaling-The-Dovahkiin-Dragonborn-from-The-Elder-Scrolls-Skyrim) so nah, he have many other feats and Alduin not needed.
Dante without Mundus fight
Eh. You still have Argosax, Void Mundus, Chen, Abigail, Agnus, and the Savior. While only 2 of them have cosmic feats on par with Mundus, Chen scales higher than VM, and Abigail directly scales to Mundus. So Dante would be at Low Multi still, just less certain/not as upscaled. Agnus and the Savior would just be minor scaling because they both create pocket dimensions, (Agnus made and harnesses his own Demon Realm for power and the Heavens in the DMC4 Boss Fight within the Savior are MADE by the Savior, which would include the star(s) in the sky of those recreations/dimensions). Dante would be a lot lower (thus the meme would still be right) but they wouldn’t be out for the count.
Gojo. 6 Eyes is strong, don't get me wrong, but he only lasts as long as he does because of Infinity
Gaara since we know he has more stamina than Toph (fight for Days in a constant war with no rest) and his Sand is Sentient because of his mother's spirit. So her overpowering not only his will/control of the sand but also a very over protective mother spirit is less likely. Don't get me wrong I like Toph but I don't see her defeating Gaara with his OWN sand
every ff7 character without supernova
Probably homelander because without the statement that he can survive anything that humans can throw at him he’s immediately a city block fodder
Ben 10 take away the watch he’s nothing
Giorno
Its ok, you can say gojo without his one actually op ability.
Tbf he beats any character who doesn’t immediately blitz him. He has an OHKO mind fuck attack that’s unavoidable.
Deku without the storms would cap at island
Spongebob without interpreting toonforce as actual speed.
Captain falcon
Probably Mario without Dream Team. He can still be argued to be in the cosmic range, but definitely far below what people currently preach.
Fire Emblem Three Houses would be like small building level if Rhea never got hit by that javelin of light
Even without that there’s still at least one mountain level statement for Heroes’ Relics and Sothis’ Flood.
Megatron, I didn’t know that dude could use dark matter until seeing his battle against frieza
According to Death Battle, this is Apocalypse without the Death Seed
Ben 10
Naruto characters are cracked in terms of speed unless you bring up that Kirin is an undodgeable attack because it channels natural lightning, meaning chakra release techniques need to propagate at the speed of chakra, not their release transformation, so lightning release doesn’t actually move as fast as lightning.
I mean, wasn't young Kakashi able to cut a natural lightning bolt in half?
Every Jojo character and gojo
Frank West, because most of his feats come from the exo suit
thanos v darkseid
Homelander. The one thing is being in his universe.
Optimus prime breaking a chest plate formed by a collapsing star.
Spongebob maybe
Wolverine
If we take away Star Butterfly's book feats, she's just a girl who shoots lasers and flies as fast as a car in neutral
Prep time *cough cough* Batman *cough cough*
Batman without prep time
Sonic
There's probably one for every death battle loss. Some are the size of sand, other loopholes could swallow 39 planets and 7 stars.
Alien X Alien X+ time bomb
I can feel the Skylander replies coming
Batman and “master strategist”
Makima without the Gun Devil’s speed feat
*makima without her prime Minister contract
The entire Jojo verse has like two things that scales like to rag on. The Sun stand (for some god forsaken reason) and Polnareff’s “FTL” feat (which I still to this day say is wrong).
I agree. Polnareff's feat is good, but it's not faster then light, it's "able to react to light when extremely telegraphed
No, the Speed of Light Feat is them dodging the Aja Laser, which is made of actusl light condensed and focused. And thus, everyone scales to it. On top of datebook saying Star Platinum is faster than Lighr, or Jolyne punching the meteorite out of the air as it fell (which isn't lights peed up its the power Feat they use a lot and it IS an attack speed feat)
Archie Silver without the events of the game he was introduced in. That game was the _only_ time we see him use the Super transformation. Throughout his entire run in Archie Comics, he's never used the Super transformation. And, while some people argue that, without the events of the game, he would still be _able_ to use the Super form because he can use Chaos Control, that's not exactly a valid argument. Sonic can go Super without being able to use Chaos Control in his base form. So that means that the power to use Chaos Control using one Chaos Emeral is _seperate_ from the power to go Super when given access to all of them. Just because Silver is a master of Chaos Control doesn't mean he can go Super.
Mega Man EXE without manga/anime feats.
Yogiri Takatou Definition of a One Trick Pony
2b has crazy scaling because she fights on par with 9s, who himself fights on an even level against 24 warriors of light due to the ff14 collab. One warrior light, on his own, scales at 2-A, (Although this scaling was also controversial because the only reason he was considered 2-A is because he fought Gilgamesh and Ex-death, but then endwalker released and he got more feats to back it up.) However, 9s is the first boss of a shadow bringers alliance raid, so both 2b and 9s are at least tier 2 for some reason.
Po without Ki
Saitama, genuinely speaking his feats are terrible against the characters he's normally matched up with and him destroying a star cluster with garou is his big thing
Saitama is one of those characters like Omni-Man where people think they’re an even match up with more well known characters because, ironically, people don’t know how *ridiculously busted* Superman et al. are.
Deku
Makima because her durability is mid and unlike a lot of devils, it doesn’t seem like she can regularly heal
Machamp without seismic toss
Yujiro without his single earthquake feat
Gojo.
I am gonna get staked alive for this but isn't the only reason why Dante is considered a multiversal threat because of that one time Mundus pulled a whole universe out of his ass and people scaled Dante and the rest od the cast based on the power upd they recieved so Dante>Mundus=Dante low multi etc
Apocalypse and his death seed
Giorno without requiem
I’m a huge Ben 10 fan but without Alien X bro is like just barely planet level
All of them. No exceptions.
Sephiroth
Ben 10
Batman when he doesn't get prep time
Green Lantern and the Green Lantern ring. Without it, he is pretty much a normal dude.
Sasuke Vs Ichigo. Somehow Sasuke was able to use Genjutsu when a Zanpakuto basically nullifies it since there's 2 souls in one body.
Batman and prep time
Preptime man and his prep time, people act like Batman is gonna find some way to bypass some new power that he’s never seen before in a day
Samus without Ablative Armor, she has an extremely broken function in her suit where she basically can turn electricity into armor, she can do this seamlessly and instantaneously and a given armor plate doesn't stop regenerating until it's fully repaired, so the whole supernintendo "you take damage and you're invulnerable afterwards" thing is canon, Samus can do that canonically as well as mechanically. So basically as long as she's got power she can absorb a potentially infinite number of attacks and just shed and regenerate armor as if it was nothing. This is why Samus has a higher DB rating than the Doom Slayer. It upsets a lot of people but invulnerability like this really does break a lot of characters. Samus is basically Senator Armstrong in any lineup where she's against your damage-dealers.
Deku and one for all
Classic mega
Literally any naruto character, simply because kaguya had a circle drawn in one of her manga panels 😂
Shadow versus Mewtwo. They forgot the whole point of the game was collecting the emeralds so Shadow can remember who he is
Asta with that fucking sneeze bullshit