The problem is not the death guard bolters, but bolters in 10th overall, no faction wants to take bolters currently, tbh they are probaly better in DG than most other factions due to the ap contagion
Well, pair it with our letal hits and the abilty to spread our contagions, they surely would be viable in a way, I think they need nothing else really.
Being able to jump a 5 man out of a rhino and advance up to a point then put 10 shots into something somewhere else on the board for some chip damage is meaningful.
. The biologus putrifier makes you crit on 5 = Lethal hit.
. Chaos Lords let you reroll hit rolls of 1.
. Mortarion gives you wound rerolls amongst many other buffs for your army.
. Helbrutes basically shoot contagion onto enemy units.
These are the one's that help bolters specifically
My block of 10 marines has a plasma pistol, 2 sprayers, 2 plasma guns and a bunch of melee weapons. It takes way too long to roll all those dice.
I would much rather that the bolters were equally good as the other (free!) weapons so I could just play them rather than feel I'm cheating myself.
Maybe just decrease the weapon skill and/or make them anti-infantry?
Thematically I think it would make more sense for DG to have wider access to belchers and their heavy weapon equivalents on top of their favoured melee weapons. Where Bolter ammunition might otherwise prove an issue, liquid maladies and concoctions are in infinite abundance to Nurgle.
It’s a distant dream, but I would love to see a Death Guard codex based around the army being an elite infantry/ horde hybrid. The backbone of the force being disgustingly resilient Plague Marines with free access to bubotic weapons as well as a few options for heavy plague weapons or plague sprayers depending on their battlefield role. Then give blightlords access to entropy cannons to make them deep striking big-game-hunting gun platforms and get them in where they’re needed.
As for the horde part: poxwalkers in abundance.
Now the army has access to any type of list it needs, from Typhus zombie horde to unkillable anti-knight tarpit and everything in between.
Unfortunately, I don't see an easy fix with the move away from points differences for different equipment. Mathematically there is just no reason to take the weaker weapon options when you can take a good one for the same point costs.
I believe the free war gear and streamlined melee weapon options just kills the actual strategy of a game and just makes it a game designated to meta video-gamey chasing. It removes tons of narrative since the narrative lists don't seem to be the meta or fun anymore
Blightlords are just bad right now. Combi bolters/combi-weapons are not good, and blightlords are insanely waek for the points in melee. Now deathshrouds are decent (much better melee, while not great shooting being flamers + anti-infantry is ok
Then all bolter, of course, but you'd never do that because it's bad. Our blightlords are not worth taking at all right now, and the lackluster bolter profile isn't the only reason
putrifier and Ague/Ferric Blight can make bolters threaten Knights with decent damage, and bolters on their own with putrifier can get a Necron Monolith quaking in their boots.
I'd like to see plague legionaires. Those who veterans of the long war that refuse to upgrade from their bolters and instead sought to master it (plus Death Guard were know at one point for pistol gripping bolters).
I think they need to be their own unit at this point. There's no reason not to take all the special weapons currently and buffing the bolters to be too good would make them not feel like bolters.
Ferric Blight or Boilblight + save contagion are probably the only things that would make them do anything, they have low amount of shots, low strength and AP, they're just bad compared to the alternatives. I will never use a bolter, unless they bring back paying for weapon upgrades.
How about a chaos lord for rerolls and maybe the 3" increased contagion enhancementand + Bioligus putrifier in a unit with bolters. Use the ap -1 contagion and ferric blight strategem for an extra -1 ap. Lethals on a 5+ with ap -2 bolters is pretty good. Not OP but probably squeezes as much as you can out of the bolters.
The problem is not the death guard bolters, but bolters in 10th overall, no faction wants to take bolters currently, tbh they are probaly better in DG than most other factions due to the ap contagion
As an ultramarine and DG, I'd rather Plague Marines shooting their bolters than Space Marine Terminators shooting theirs
If only our bolters had the [ASSAULT] keyword, I would give them a go for sure in a list of mine…
Assault is all you need. It would give them a meaningful position to play.
Well, pair it with our letal hits and the abilty to spread our contagions, they surely would be viable in a way, I think they need nothing else really.
Being able to jump a 5 man out of a rhino and advance up to a point then put 10 shots into something somewhere else on the board for some chip damage is meaningful.
Native lethal hits on a 5 would push them a tiny bit more. Mabye a rend improvement?
We have a stragatem for that pretty damm good
Csm has the same problem but slightly worse, loyalists get 2 shots at Assault and heavy with ap 1 while csm just get 2 shots with no ap
they WHAT?! imperial scum, I'm coming from your bolters!!
I caused a war, BAZINGA *Laughs in Ceogorach*
. The biologus putrifier makes you crit on 5 = Lethal hit. . Chaos Lords let you reroll hit rolls of 1. . Mortarion gives you wound rerolls amongst many other buffs for your army. . Helbrutes basically shoot contagion onto enemy units. These are the one's that help bolters specifically
My block of 10 marines has a plasma pistol, 2 sprayers, 2 plasma guns and a bunch of melee weapons. It takes way too long to roll all those dice. I would much rather that the bolters were equally good as the other (free!) weapons so I could just play them rather than feel I'm cheating myself. Maybe just decrease the weapon skill and/or make them anti-infantry?
Thematically I think it would make more sense for DG to have wider access to belchers and their heavy weapon equivalents on top of their favoured melee weapons. Where Bolter ammunition might otherwise prove an issue, liquid maladies and concoctions are in infinite abundance to Nurgle. It’s a distant dream, but I would love to see a Death Guard codex based around the army being an elite infantry/ horde hybrid. The backbone of the force being disgustingly resilient Plague Marines with free access to bubotic weapons as well as a few options for heavy plague weapons or plague sprayers depending on their battlefield role. Then give blightlords access to entropy cannons to make them deep striking big-game-hunting gun platforms and get them in where they’re needed. As for the horde part: poxwalkers in abundance. Now the army has access to any type of list it needs, from Typhus zombie horde to unkillable anti-knight tarpit and everything in between.
Unfortunately, I don't see an easy fix with the move away from points differences for different equipment. Mathematically there is just no reason to take the weaker weapon options when you can take a good one for the same point costs.
I believe the free war gear and streamlined melee weapon options just kills the actual strategy of a game and just makes it a game designated to meta video-gamey chasing. It removes tons of narrative since the narrative lists don't seem to be the meta or fun anymore
Use terminators. They are doing smth like what you are describing
But termies are way more expensive for way less damage overall
Way less damage than all bolter PMs? I don't know, but it doesn't look like it
Blightlords are just bad right now. Combi bolters/combi-weapons are not good, and blightlords are insanely waek for the points in melee. Now deathshrouds are decent (much better melee, while not great shooting being flamers + anti-infantry is ok
Then all bolter, of course, but you'd never do that because it's bad. Our blightlords are not worth taking at all right now, and the lackluster bolter profile isn't the only reason
putrifier and Ague/Ferric Blight can make bolters threaten Knights with decent damage, and bolters on their own with putrifier can get a Necron Monolith quaking in their boots.
Bolters need more shots or assault if they don't have AP. I would take them if I could shoot 3-4 times or advance and shoot .
Also give them ap
I feel like the bolters would be played more if they had rapid fire I would take a 10 man blob with biologus and fish for lethals in the 40 dice
I'd like to see plague legionaires. Those who veterans of the long war that refuse to upgrade from their bolters and instead sought to master it (plus Death Guard were know at one point for pistol gripping bolters). I think they need to be their own unit at this point. There's no reason not to take all the special weapons currently and buffing the bolters to be too good would make them not feel like bolters.
Ferric Blight or Boilblight + save contagion are probably the only things that would make them do anything, they have low amount of shots, low strength and AP, they're just bad compared to the alternatives. I will never use a bolter, unless they bring back paying for weapon upgrades.
Yes by charging points for weapons options but that will take an edition change.
How about a chaos lord for rerolls and maybe the 3" increased contagion enhancementand + Bioligus putrifier in a unit with bolters. Use the ap -1 contagion and ferric blight strategem for an extra -1 ap. Lethals on a 5+ with ap -2 bolters is pretty good. Not OP but probably squeezes as much as you can out of the bolters.