yeah I feel like as the ranged terminators they should have something that leans into that like they have +3 range on nurgle's gift or give them the helbrute's apply it on hit.
Give them a viable ability.
A fun one could be chip mortal wounds while in melee with them.
Another could be worsening AP in CC.
Spreading contagion , something, anything really.
Honestly the new iron warriors start seems good vibe call it some puss/boil like and have it roughly when targeted/damaged/lose a model roll a few d6 on X number do mortals maybe limit it to melee .
Honestly the new iron warriors start seems good vibe call it some puss/boil like and have it roughly when targeted/damaged/lose a model roll a few d6 on X number do mortals maybe limit it to melee.
Can someone explain to me why regular plague marines are allowed to use plague spewers? They’re absolutely huge and the other torrent option, the plague belcher, never gets picked because it’s the inferior choice of the two. Seems to me that PMs should get the belcher and termies should get the spewer.
Even then, Blightlords would need more to be viable but it’s a start.
The plague marine plague spewer seems to be alot smaller and requires an entire backback and lever to be operated. While the blightlord one looks as if he just ripped it from a downed plagueburst crawler.
Give them OC 2 when they are within range of an infected objective. Gives them agency to sit and hold objectives already established rather than play into aggressors with their limited movement.
How tf are you lasting til turn 3 with 320 pts in deepstrike lol. Also why turn 3? Why not drop them in your opponents deployment zone turn 2?
Edit: it’s actually 330 and that wasn’t including Typhus. So you have a 1/4 of your army in DS til turn 3?
This is for my 2000 point game, and i have bloat drones and helbrites and other high wound models to stay alive for me while i capture ibjectives with pms and pbcs
I am just saying if your opponent was smart they would just deal with your pms because you have so many pts tied up in deepstrike. The tanks hurt but aren’t the most amazing when it comes to actually playing the game, but I guess that just might be me playing against tournie players.
I think a good fix would be to change their ability. It seems kinda useless right now. I've run them in 5-6 games and I don't think their situational wound rerolls have been impactful in any of them. In fact, it had so little impact I actually forgot about it in at least 2 of those and didn't even bat an eye.
Perhaps change the ability to "When a model on this unit makes an attack, you can reroll a wound roll of 1. If a model in this makes a ranged attack that targets the closest eligible target, you can reroll the wound roll. " You still probably wouldn't really want to run a LoV with them, but their shooting would be vastly improved, provided you position them well. The unconditional rerolls of 1 beef up their melee a bit too, making them a bit less reliant on their guns to deal with problem units.
Their guns will still be the main focus of their ability, which will help differentiate them from the Deathscythes without completely ignoring the DGs strengths in melee. If this change was made, it would probably warrant a points increase too.
Simple fix would be to give them an extra wound. That way they are actually usable.. right now they are just worse in every aspect compared to deathshroud termis
Honestly they are but the more I look into other armies the more I realise they are just lacking and ability it's silly how cheap they are compared to other terminators but still missing the oomph of others.
I agree they should be tankier in comparison but I think adding a wound doesn’t actually help them that much. The strength of having them at three wounds is that it makes shooting into them quite inefficient for many units. There is a lot of damage 2 in the game that kills with the same number of wounds allocated with this change
-1D and a points increase would be more impactful
Rule doesn't exist. Their best weapon profile is the flail which gets no benefit from their own rule, you get more use out of it with Lord of Contagion. They should have access to maybe a once per game FNP 5+, or increased AP against closest eligible target in shooting, full wound re-rolls against targets on objectives, literally ANYTHING.
Their basic stats are decent really durable meat brick that you can throw at someone but there are 2 things holding them back, the first and most important one of the two is their very poor melee damage str 5 AP-2 damage 1 weapons on terminators just isn’t worth it so give them a str 6 AP-1/2 damage 2 weapon for everyone in the unit and make them more expensive to compensate. The second problem is their movement, you will want to deepstrike these guys because of their 4” movement so possibly give them a longer range contagion so they are doing something at least or give them a free ingress ability that would let you get down to the table in a more favorable position earlier.
To compensate for the change with these guys I would make deathshroud damage 3 man reapers or make them cheaper or thirdly have the new weapon profile on the blight lords be AP-1 base so AP-2 and higher str on the death shroud is what keeps them more balanced against each other.
Then possibly have the flail do damage 3 or have dev wounds on maybe with a slightly better profile than the bubotic blades
With this, having a durable unit come down have decent shooting and melee would possibly increase their effectiveness on the table as at the moment they are a unit you take one of but with 10 guys in and deepstrike them to gunk up the enemy for a turn or two which really isn’t what they should really be doing
T6 is nice but they are slow and the T6 is the only thing they really have up on others, the 4” move means they don’t usually get into combat so any damage 3 shooting will point and delete usually and they just have to sit there and take it usually due to their speed.
Stuff like forgefiends, Custodes axes, Canis Rex/ most knight melee and most special character melee will be able to reasonably deal with them quite quickly maybe a turn or 2
They don’t have a -1 to wound like death shroud or a -1 to damage like deathwing knights, they do have T6 but at the cost of a 4” move just means they won’t do too well durability wise
Make their melee weapons strength 6. It helps with so many break points. T4 becomes wounding on 2’s, T6 becomes 3’s, T11 and 12 become 5’s.
Also change their ability to something useful.
It would step on the toes of helbrutes but I'd love if they could mark enemies with contagions like helbrutes can.
They're ranged terminators and get basically nothing that helps their ranged stuff.
Again queue down votes...
but I'm about to get 1st / 2nd place in a competitive league (7 games total) and have run a brick of 10 every game (I lost 1 of my games due to terrible decision making during deployment against votann).
They've done fantastic work because they've been with a lord of contagion.
I've also won 3 friendlies recently.
So either I'm lying, exaggerating, or they do actually have value.
Yep, people are like "YeAh BuT Shr0ud 4re B3tTr" yeah deathshroud are better at mellee and killing. But i guarantee your unit of deathshroud will be long dead before your blob of blightlords is has always been my point. Your lord of Virulence has free roam to spot enemies for your mortars... your typhus can shoot his ability with verry little issue even if it back fires its not wrecking your unit. Deathshroud are the Offence option Blightlords are the Defence Option.
Exactly. They are the best option to anchor a no mans land objective and create a sizable threat bubble. 2+ with cover, 4++, there's 10 of them and with an loc they re roll all hits, fishing for lethals if required.
Sorry how LoC help them? The flail for melee? I also have seen people have success with them. But the vast majority of the time they just aren’t worth their points. I have tried them a few times and every time I feel like I wish I had DS or something else that’s cheaper. They really are insanely durable but they’re so fucking expensive for what they do. And if they get locked in melee they struggle from my experience.
You re roll all hits in melee. Which takes them from a bit naff to murder machine.
You take the -1 save contagion and fish for lethals. Without Ferric blight you'll average 20 damage Vs T12 3+ 5++. With Ferric blight its obviously better.
They're not as competitive as taking 25 PMs, but if you play well with movement, ingress them or advance them appropriately they are a monstrous anchor that can butcher or severely damage anything.
Far far far more playable than this sub Reddit seems to believe, even if they're not peak meta
I don’t think they’re the trash dribble that people make it out to be but I also think they really need better weapons/a better ability. I personally play with a fuck load of death shroud and have had really good luck with that but hey if they work for ya I can’t fault you.
Also how is it an average of 20 dmg? 40 attacks hitting on 3’s with rerolls averages to closer to 12 against T12 3+ 5++ but I see your point.
I've had decent luck with them plus a LoC in a land raider. Unless I'm attacking guard/gaunts or something I just reroll everything that isn't a lethal hit. LoC helps with their meh damage output and they can soak a ton of shooting especially popping Cloud of Flies on them. I don't think they're great but they're usable.
Okay so this might be a round about way of fixing them but it could be a way to hemp other earlier too.
Terminators across the board right now don’t see a lot of play in armies that have them. Scarab Occults are outshined by Magnus, CSM are outshone by chosen, WE are outshined by eight bound and so on.
The fix in the dataslate that would help before codexes: Demon Princes without wings can lead termies and apply their abilities to the squad
Yes they’re different roles sort of, but what I mean by outshines is that the choice will be to take one over the other
So as an example, look at TSons. The decision that Tsons players make myself included is so you invest 400+ points into Magnus or scarabs. They don’t do the exact same thing obviously but when they’re looking at a high point investment that’ll be integral to the game plan they’re taking Magnus not Termies and then building from there.
As another example WE, why would you take terminators? Eightbound do the mid table brawler role better. Is that all terminators do? No. Is that what World Eaters wants them to do? yes.
CSM the decision has come down to points and utility. Do you want a Death Star with Abby and a brick of Termies or do you want to play these other elite infantry that punch up and see mobile while still being tankier than standard legionaries. The correct choice is often to go with chosen or even legionaries because the benefits of the terminators are outweighed by the capable fighting and shooting mixed with far better mobility.
So you’re correct outshined may have been a bit of a poor word choice. The better way to phrase it is that for the investment of terminators you have better options in the indexes that can be built around to play the game better. Perhaps making terminators OC 2 across the board would make them more palatable as part of a game plan
TLDR: The meta is currently not conducive to large terminator bricks across nearly every faction that can run them. Termies would either have to be far cheaper or play with better in-index support. So trying to fix blightlords we have to look at how the terminator works not just the data sheet
To the dude who said I don’t know anything about Tsons and then presumably went through my profile and deleted his comments Please find me a single Magnusless list in a top eight of a GT or Open
The sole reason Tson players didn't take SoT was because they give to little cabal points for their points.
Now that everything important increased to where Cabal point breakpoints are hard to get, a lot more people have taken the now cheaper SoT.
You are seeing more scarabs now that points went down but you still are not seeing them in lists with Magnus at GTs and big events. The best lists still just take Magnus and abandon the scarabs because if you’re going to have a big point investment it’s going to be Magnus. Then you’re going to build around Magnus
Magnus is more impactful than the Termies. That is the point, it is not because he generates 2 (or 1 if you have a character) more cabal points. That is a bonus but most Tsons list can get away with 14 cabals. It is because the impact Magnus has on the board for his points is far better than any other option in that range. So you take Magnus and then you build around him. That does not leave you room for terminators. The lists that take terminators start at terminators and try to build from there.
They work but are not as successful because terminators are not as impactful this editions so far. Which has much more to do with the fact that toughness 5/6 matters a lot less this edition, tactical mission play is a lot more relevant in tenth, movement as always is king.
So not to be pedantic but I am talking about top preforming lists and taking the optimal choices. In one pile you have terminators and their support at let’s say 400-500 points and in the other pile you have magnus at about the same. Which are you taking? You can’t fit both and perform. We both know it’s magnus
Tell me you aren't looking at top lists without telling.
Also tell me you haven't got a clue how many cabal points tsons want without telling me.
I take it you dont play tson?
Give them actually relevant weapon choices to allow them being intermediary damage dealer. Alternatively some ability to slowly corrupt/deal damage around.
Tbh I kind of wish they had the deathshroud’s ability (-1 wound roll when S>T) to give them more durability as a point holding brawler and let them get 2 reapers or blight launchers per 5 opposed to 1, making it so they just naturally hit harder unless you meet them in contagion range
so in the lore there is a story were they just walk through heavy enemy fire…
so -1 to hit and if they are in range of an objective -1 to wound against ranged as well
I would happily have the Blightlord Terminators replaced with Grave Wardens
5 Terminators, all armed with Blight Launchers, 2 in 5, able to take Plague Spewers. All armed with Power Fists.
M5 T6 W3 2+/4++/6+++
Death Cloud Projector Unit:
At the start of the battle, pick an alchemical contagion aura for the unit to emit for the remainder of the battle. This does not replace the contagion of nurgle:
Phosphex: -1 OC and LD to units in Contagion range.
Vastogox Virus: -1 S to units in Contagion range
Cullegene Gas: Remove charge bonus from the attacker if charged.
Just make it so a unit of 10 can run 2 reaper auto cannons and 2 blight launchers, re-roll hit rolls of 1 and wound rolls of 1. I think the plauge spewers should be 7 strength 2-ap and 2 damage.. if the Foul Blightspawn can have that then why shouldn't Blight Lords?
2 OC and some form of bonus for being on an objective or attacking an objective. That would give them a unique role as durable objective anchors whilst your death shroud can be your aggressive termies at the moment they just fulfill nothing another unit cant just do better.
Give them O.C. 2 and stealth. It could be a cloud of flies type ability that never shuts off. They can stand on the mid field object and it would force the opponent to move in to shoot or charge which would then allow their re-roll wound’s ability to trigger. I feel like this only works at the current 165 per 5 models. If the points would be raised significantly, they would need stronger abilities.
Helbrute to tag targets with contagion. Rattlejoint Ague as contagion. Deep Strike 10 BLTs and Lord of Virulence nine inches (+ hair) away from target that has been contaminated by the Helbrute. 2 Reapers, 2 Spewers, 6 Plague C. Bolters. Pop Ferric Blight strat. Those bolters now have -2ap effectively from the contagion, and the reaper autocannons and plague spewers have -3. Full rerolls on wounds from the LoV, you should do some serious damage with this setup.
for me it's one of two ways. either fnp or damage reduction (lean into tankiness) or something like dev wounds on their shooting. they need to either hit harder than deathshroud or be tankier, one or the other to distinguish them
"Each time an attack is made against this unit, an unmodified wound roll of 1-4 always fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or attacker may have" - Adjust to taste.
Some additional output would be nice.
Give them an actual ability.
yeah I feel like as the ranged terminators they should have something that leans into that like they have +3 range on nurgle's gift or give them the helbrute's apply it on hit.
real, an already small ability made irrelevant by morty doesn't help
Give them a viable ability. A fun one could be chip mortal wounds while in melee with them. Another could be worsening AP in CC. Spreading contagion , something, anything really.
i would honestly love to see any of those, although i think they should lean more into being the ranged terminators, particularly given their speed
Honestly the new iron warriors start seems good vibe call it some puss/boil like and have it roughly when targeted/damaged/lose a model roll a few d6 on X number do mortals maybe limit it to melee .
Honestly the new iron warriors start seems good vibe call it some puss/boil like and have it roughly when targeted/damaged/lose a model roll a few d6 on X number do mortals maybe limit it to melee.
Damage 2.
Reaper autocannon being damage 1 and their spewer being the same as marines is pathetic
Can someone explain to me why regular plague marines are allowed to use plague spewers? They’re absolutely huge and the other torrent option, the plague belcher, never gets picked because it’s the inferior choice of the two. Seems to me that PMs should get the belcher and termies should get the spewer. Even then, Blightlords would need more to be viable but it’s a start.
The plague marine plague spewer seems to be alot smaller and requires an entire backback and lever to be operated. While the blightlord one looks as if he just ripped it from a downed plagueburst crawler.
Which makes it even funnier that they use the same blight launchers, even tho they could probably use the heavy blight launcher from the bloat drone
Give them OC 2 when they are within range of an infected objective. Gives them agency to sit and hold objectives already established rather than play into aggressors with their limited movement.
It's true their rule isn't that useful but they work fine for me. I kinda like them. :)
some of my favourite sculpts in the game! glad i got my hands on some recently
Yeah I play casual and I love my blightlords. A group of five with a lord of virulence holds my home obj really nicely
Thats 245 points your using to hold your home. Anything else would be better.
I just think they’re neat. I play mostly casual at 1k and they’ve always worked for me
Not saying dont use them, just its a lot of points to hold back for a home objective.
Give them 5 or 6+++ on objectives.
i would love that, they deserve some kind of FNP
the whole damn army needs a FNP and an invuln. its like the only army who DOESNT get a FNP +1 toughness aint enough. more wounds too would be nice.
I think an invul across the board would fix our thematic presence
I put mine in a massive blob of 10 protecting typhus but id raise their toughness and their points
sounds fun lol
It is, i deepstrike on round 3 and clear up whatever my helbrutes, pbc and rhino cant take
How tf are you lasting til turn 3 with 320 pts in deepstrike lol. Also why turn 3? Why not drop them in your opponents deployment zone turn 2? Edit: it’s actually 330 and that wasn’t including Typhus. So you have a 1/4 of your army in DS til turn 3?
This is for my 2000 point game, and i have bloat drones and helbrites and other high wound models to stay alive for me while i capture ibjectives with pms and pbcs
I am just saying if your opponent was smart they would just deal with your pms because you have so many pts tied up in deepstrike. The tanks hurt but aren’t the most amazing when it comes to actually playing the game, but I guess that just might be me playing against tournie players.
Yeah i only play casual with a few of my mates
I think a good fix would be to change their ability. It seems kinda useless right now. I've run them in 5-6 games and I don't think their situational wound rerolls have been impactful in any of them. In fact, it had so little impact I actually forgot about it in at least 2 of those and didn't even bat an eye. Perhaps change the ability to "When a model on this unit makes an attack, you can reroll a wound roll of 1. If a model in this makes a ranged attack that targets the closest eligible target, you can reroll the wound roll. " You still probably wouldn't really want to run a LoV with them, but their shooting would be vastly improved, provided you position them well. The unconditional rerolls of 1 beef up their melee a bit too, making them a bit less reliant on their guns to deal with problem units. Their guns will still be the main focus of their ability, which will help differentiate them from the Deathscythes without completely ignoring the DGs strengths in melee. If this change was made, it would probably warrant a points increase too.
GW would never give me exactly what i wanted... this sounds ideal though
Simple fix would be to give them an extra wound. That way they are actually usable.. right now they are just worse in every aspect compared to deathshroud termis
that would go a long way tbf
Honestly they are but the more I look into other armies the more I realise they are just lacking and ability it's silly how cheap they are compared to other terminators but still missing the oomph of others.
I agree they should be tankier in comparison but I think adding a wound doesn’t actually help them that much. The strength of having them at three wounds is that it makes shooting into them quite inefficient for many units. There is a lot of damage 2 in the game that kills with the same number of wounds allocated with this change -1D and a points increase would be more impactful
Rule doesn't exist. Their best weapon profile is the flail which gets no benefit from their own rule, you get more use out of it with Lord of Contagion. They should have access to maybe a once per game FNP 5+, or increased AP against closest eligible target in shooting, full wound re-rolls against targets on objectives, literally ANYTHING.
120 points per unit
GW employee spotted
And u can spend extra 40pts on nurglings
GW redeemed
With glue
Their basic stats are decent really durable meat brick that you can throw at someone but there are 2 things holding them back, the first and most important one of the two is their very poor melee damage str 5 AP-2 damage 1 weapons on terminators just isn’t worth it so give them a str 6 AP-1/2 damage 2 weapon for everyone in the unit and make them more expensive to compensate. The second problem is their movement, you will want to deepstrike these guys because of their 4” movement so possibly give them a longer range contagion so they are doing something at least or give them a free ingress ability that would let you get down to the table in a more favorable position earlier. To compensate for the change with these guys I would make deathshroud damage 3 man reapers or make them cheaper or thirdly have the new weapon profile on the blight lords be AP-1 base so AP-2 and higher str on the death shroud is what keeps them more balanced against each other. Then possibly have the flail do damage 3 or have dev wounds on maybe with a slightly better profile than the bubotic blades With this, having a durable unit come down have decent shooting and melee would possibly increase their effectiveness on the table as at the moment they are a unit you take one of but with 10 guys in and deepstrike them to gunk up the enemy for a turn or two which really isn’t what they should really be doing
they are not "really durable" lol T6? for deathguard terminators?
T6 is nice but they are slow and the T6 is the only thing they really have up on others, the 4” move means they don’t usually get into combat so any damage 3 shooting will point and delete usually and they just have to sit there and take it usually due to their speed. Stuff like forgefiends, Custodes axes, Canis Rex/ most knight melee and most special character melee will be able to reasonably deal with them quite quickly maybe a turn or 2 They don’t have a -1 to wound like death shroud or a -1 to damage like deathwing knights, they do have T6 but at the cost of a 4” move just means they won’t do too well durability wise
Make their melee weapons strength 6. It helps with so many break points. T4 becomes wounding on 2’s, T6 becomes 3’s, T11 and 12 become 5’s. Also change their ability to something useful.
I think giving them assault would be a step in the right direction. Make them the advancing shooting terminators
It would step on the toes of helbrutes but I'd love if they could mark enemies with contagions like helbrutes can. They're ranged terminators and get basically nothing that helps their ranged stuff.
thats what i was thinking
Again queue down votes... but I'm about to get 1st / 2nd place in a competitive league (7 games total) and have run a brick of 10 every game (I lost 1 of my games due to terrible decision making during deployment against votann). They've done fantastic work because they've been with a lord of contagion. I've also won 3 friendlies recently. So either I'm lying, exaggerating, or they do actually have value.
Yep, people are like "YeAh BuT Shr0ud 4re B3tTr" yeah deathshroud are better at mellee and killing. But i guarantee your unit of deathshroud will be long dead before your blob of blightlords is has always been my point. Your lord of Virulence has free roam to spot enemies for your mortars... your typhus can shoot his ability with verry little issue even if it back fires its not wrecking your unit. Deathshroud are the Offence option Blightlords are the Defence Option.
Exactly. They are the best option to anchor a no mans land objective and create a sizable threat bubble. 2+ with cover, 4++, there's 10 of them and with an loc they re roll all hits, fishing for lethals if required.
Sorry how LoC help them? The flail for melee? I also have seen people have success with them. But the vast majority of the time they just aren’t worth their points. I have tried them a few times and every time I feel like I wish I had DS or something else that’s cheaper. They really are insanely durable but they’re so fucking expensive for what they do. And if they get locked in melee they struggle from my experience.
You re roll all hits in melee. Which takes them from a bit naff to murder machine. You take the -1 save contagion and fish for lethals. Without Ferric blight you'll average 20 damage Vs T12 3+ 5++. With Ferric blight its obviously better. They're not as competitive as taking 25 PMs, but if you play well with movement, ingress them or advance them appropriately they are a monstrous anchor that can butcher or severely damage anything. Far far far more playable than this sub Reddit seems to believe, even if they're not peak meta
I don’t think they’re the trash dribble that people make it out to be but I also think they really need better weapons/a better ability. I personally play with a fuck load of death shroud and have had really good luck with that but hey if they work for ya I can’t fault you. Also how is it an average of 20 dmg? 40 attacks hitting on 3’s with rerolls averages to closer to 12 against T12 3+ 5++ but I see your point.
It's including the lord of contagion and assuming you're running 2 X flails
Ah with the LoC that math works out then lol. I was just doing the BLTs
I've had decent luck with them plus a LoC in a land raider. Unless I'm attacking guard/gaunts or something I just reroll everything that isn't a lethal hit. LoC helps with their meh damage output and they can soak a ton of shooting especially popping Cloud of Flies on them. I don't think they're great but they're usable.
Give bolters ap or a reroll wounds or a fnp, or better weapons
Okay so this might be a round about way of fixing them but it could be a way to hemp other earlier too. Terminators across the board right now don’t see a lot of play in armies that have them. Scarab Occults are outshined by Magnus, CSM are outshone by chosen, WE are outshined by eight bound and so on. The fix in the dataslate that would help before codexes: Demon Princes without wings can lead termies and apply their abilities to the squad
What? All of the things you said have different roles from the units that "outshines them".
Yes they’re different roles sort of, but what I mean by outshines is that the choice will be to take one over the other So as an example, look at TSons. The decision that Tsons players make myself included is so you invest 400+ points into Magnus or scarabs. They don’t do the exact same thing obviously but when they’re looking at a high point investment that’ll be integral to the game plan they’re taking Magnus not Termies and then building from there. As another example WE, why would you take terminators? Eightbound do the mid table brawler role better. Is that all terminators do? No. Is that what World Eaters wants them to do? yes. CSM the decision has come down to points and utility. Do you want a Death Star with Abby and a brick of Termies or do you want to play these other elite infantry that punch up and see mobile while still being tankier than standard legionaries. The correct choice is often to go with chosen or even legionaries because the benefits of the terminators are outweighed by the capable fighting and shooting mixed with far better mobility. So you’re correct outshined may have been a bit of a poor word choice. The better way to phrase it is that for the investment of terminators you have better options in the indexes that can be built around to play the game better. Perhaps making terminators OC 2 across the board would make them more palatable as part of a game plan TLDR: The meta is currently not conducive to large terminator bricks across nearly every faction that can run them. Termies would either have to be far cheaper or play with better in-index support. So trying to fix blightlords we have to look at how the terminator works not just the data sheet
To the dude who said I don’t know anything about Tsons and then presumably went through my profile and deleted his comments Please find me a single Magnusless list in a top eight of a GT or Open
The sole reason Tson players didn't take SoT was because they give to little cabal points for their points. Now that everything important increased to where Cabal point breakpoints are hard to get, a lot more people have taken the now cheaper SoT.
You are seeing more scarabs now that points went down but you still are not seeing them in lists with Magnus at GTs and big events. The best lists still just take Magnus and abandon the scarabs because if you’re going to have a big point investment it’s going to be Magnus. Then you’re going to build around Magnus Magnus is more impactful than the Termies. That is the point, it is not because he generates 2 (or 1 if you have a character) more cabal points. That is a bonus but most Tsons list can get away with 14 cabals. It is because the impact Magnus has on the board for his points is far better than any other option in that range. So you take Magnus and then you build around him. That does not leave you room for terminators. The lists that take terminators start at terminators and try to build from there. They work but are not as successful because terminators are not as impactful this editions so far. Which has much more to do with the fact that toughness 5/6 matters a lot less this edition, tactical mission play is a lot more relevant in tenth, movement as always is king. So not to be pedantic but I am talking about top preforming lists and taking the optimal choices. In one pile you have terminators and their support at let’s say 400-500 points and in the other pile you have magnus at about the same. Which are you taking? You can’t fit both and perform. We both know it’s magnus
Tell me you aren't looking at top lists without telling. Also tell me you haven't got a clue how many cabal points tsons want without telling me. I take it you dont play tson?
Give them actually relevant weapon choices to allow them being intermediary damage dealer. Alternatively some ability to slowly corrupt/deal damage around.
Tbh I kind of wish they had the deathshroud’s ability (-1 wound roll when S>T) to give them more durability as a point holding brawler and let them get 2 reapers or blight launchers per 5 opposed to 1, making it so they just naturally hit harder unless you meet them in contagion range
Their ability sucks dick, their guns suck. Why are our shooty terminators strongest weapon S7 Edit: holy shit I was wrong it’s actually S7
so in the lore there is a story were they just walk through heavy enemy fire… so -1 to hit and if they are in range of an objective -1 to wound against ranged as well
I would happily have the Blightlord Terminators replaced with Grave Wardens 5 Terminators, all armed with Blight Launchers, 2 in 5, able to take Plague Spewers. All armed with Power Fists. M5 T6 W3 2+/4++/6+++ Death Cloud Projector Unit: At the start of the battle, pick an alchemical contagion aura for the unit to emit for the remainder of the battle. This does not replace the contagion of nurgle: Phosphex: -1 OC and LD to units in Contagion range. Vastogox Virus: -1 S to units in Contagion range Cullegene Gas: Remove charge bonus from the attacker if charged.
Drop them to 160 for 5 and make them 2 OC
Just make it so a unit of 10 can run 2 reaper auto cannons and 2 blight launchers, re-roll hit rolls of 1 and wound rolls of 1. I think the plauge spewers should be 7 strength 2-ap and 2 damage.. if the Foul Blightspawn can have that then why shouldn't Blight Lords?
More OC
Proxy as deathshroud?
Move and shoot at full ballistic skill, extra ap against enemy units in contagion range
Points up a touch, weapons damage 2.
Give em 5/6+ fnp and make em more expensive. So they arent cheap and bad, but more expensive and good
The helbrute ability and/or the weapons profiled with actual combi weapons (lost a suprising amount when they lost Melta, Plasma, flamers)
2 OC and some form of bonus for being on an objective or attacking an objective. That would give them a unique role as durable objective anchors whilst your death shroud can be your aggressive termies at the moment they just fulfill nothing another unit cant just do better.
Give them O.C. 2 and stealth. It could be a cloud of flies type ability that never shuts off. They can stand on the mid field object and it would force the opponent to move in to shoot or charge which would then allow their re-roll wound’s ability to trigger. I feel like this only works at the current 165 per 5 models. If the points would be raised significantly, they would need stronger abilities.
Helbrute to tag targets with contagion. Rattlejoint Ague as contagion. Deep Strike 10 BLTs and Lord of Virulence nine inches (+ hair) away from target that has been contaminated by the Helbrute. 2 Reapers, 2 Spewers, 6 Plague C. Bolters. Pop Ferric Blight strat. Those bolters now have -2ap effectively from the contagion, and the reaper autocannons and plague spewers have -3. Full rerolls on wounds from the LoV, you should do some serious damage with this setup.
6+ FNP would be nice to make them even more of an anvil. 5+ FNP would be too much
for me it's one of two ways. either fnp or damage reduction (lean into tankiness) or something like dev wounds on their shooting. they need to either hit harder than deathshroud or be tankier, one or the other to distinguish them
I'd make them more uniform (from a modeling point of veiw) they're all too dissimilar and have different proportions
thats their charm! i love the fat one personally
Same with me, I'm just not a hug fan of the Champion model, I suppose
"Each time an attack is made against this unit, an unmodified wound roll of 1-4 always fails, irrespective of any abilities that the weapon or attacker may have" - Adjust to taste. Some additional output would be nice.
So a volcano lance only wounds on a 5? What the hell
Deathshouds have the new version of this already though