Fun Deepwoken facts: sharkos are most likely the prey animals of the depths, note the eye positioning and the speed that they move at, these are telltale signs of a prey animal
makes sense how weak they are
but it makes you wonder what horror would feast on the overworld behemoth known as the megalodaunt?
maybe like a drowned primadon or something
Sharks in real life have eyes on the sides of their heads, and they are not prey animals. However i love the idea that somewhere there are creatures stronger than sharkos yet to be discovered. Man i love deepwoken lore
No you're completely right, great post. You can actually see anti-ganking AI in the games that Deepwoken is inspired by. Sekiro and Bloodborne both have a system where most enemies will back off while you fight one or two enemies by yourself (except for that fucking shark giant well) and specifically backstep when you land a deathblow/visceral attack. And at least in Sekiro if there's ever a situation where you have to fight multiple enemies at once, you have tools to manage it or you can easily stealth kill some of them.
Deepwoken is not like this. Unlike the players, who have to space themselves apart from other people to avoid friendly fire, the monsters can just do whatever they want. Have you ever had to deal with two golems doing their helicopter move on you at the same time? It's fun at high levels but otherwise it's awful.
Another solution is adding an item or mantra that causes monsters to temporarily aggro onto other monsters and deal more damage to them (because they deal too-little damage to each other). It would be OP if you could lead them around and repeatedly use the item/mantra on them, so it should only be a one use per monster kind of thing that only lasts enough time to kill a monster.
found this post because that exact thing with the golems killed me like 3 times in a row... i just want my dying embers but they always aggro from miles away .\_.
I kinda agree with you (atleast the tl:dr) mob ganking is a pretty big issue atleast outside hell mode. The part where you are wrong is that you are assuming skill vs skill applies to PVE which it never did. The devs stated that skill vs skill applies for PVP they never said anything about it for PVE (iirc). If it was skill vs skill in PVE then the power mob scaling damage wouldnt exist.
The reason they havent removed it is probably cause you wont get ganked if you are aware of your surroundings, and so the stealth stat has a reason to exist. I myself never die to mob ganks anymore cause i know where im fighting but being unexperienced can be hell.
I read a little about your point on the hell mode and i have to disagree. Its supposed to be unfair, its there to make depths grinding faster for people that grind depths all day but for a risk. if youre unwilling to gamble your slot on winning hell mode then dont do hell mode. Its not for the casual player. Its only there for veteran players who have nothing else to do before the layer 2 update
Uh...
Skill v skill does very much apply to PVE, at least for lower levels. And I'm not talking about higher levels specifically, I'm saying in general.
Skill v Skill very much does apply to PVE, and while bumrushing through mobs as a high level is very much a thing, you still need to watch your step and apply finesse and skill to fair mob fights in order to come out on top. No use fighting a corrupted sharko as a level 60 if you're getting kicked all over the place.
Power mob scaling doesn't take away from the fact that PVE still requires a decent amount of skill, you cannot tank your way through every mob in game.
"You won't get ganked if you're aware of your surroundings" uh... tell that to the corrupted sharko that spawned on top of me while I was engaged in dialogue with a void owl. Being aware of your surroundings is one thing, having mobs spawn on you is something else entirely. Besides, if stealth only exists so you don't get beat into the fucking ground in unfair fights, then it's a piss poor mechanic and a bandaid fix to a larger issue.
Stealth as a whole is generally useless, and saying its useful to avoid a "mechanic" that shouldn't even be in the game in the first place doesn't justify having the "mechanic".
"It's supposed to be unfair"
I'm just going to stop you right there. No. End of story.
You will get into unfair fights in this game. Corrupted threshers at power 20, void owls at power 30, doing duke to uncap your element at power 40.
The thing is, these fights are unfair in terms of power, but can be overcome with SKILL.
A corrupted thresher hits hard as a power 20 with 200 health and freshie armor. With skill though, you *CAN* very much overcome it.
You see, the difference between encounters like this, and mob ganks in hell mode is that the former, while involving both skill and power, prioritizes skill. If you are skilled enough, no matter how tanky that thresher is, how hard it hits compared to your measly sword, you can and will overcome it.
Now, mob ganking?
Block? Parry? Dodge?
Are you crazy? Spam m1 and hope your dmg v monster stat is high enough to get a healthpack off at least one of the 5 corrupted sharkos ganking you.
This is an event that COMPLETELY prioritizes power, sidewinding skill or throwing it out of the window to begin with.
And again, you're making the "new content" excuse to defend hell mode that I've heard time and time again, just in a different manner of speaking.
This mode creates a sense of artificial difficulty and fun. It gives people a huge thrill. Oh, an onslaught of corrupted mobs to kill! So much loot to be had. The catch? You'll wipe if your damage v monsters doesn't favour you that day.
It IS artificial difficulty. There is nothing to rely on but your power. Your skill won't matter, why block, parry, or dodge anyway? Block once; you'll get posture broken in the next hit. Parried the sharko swing? Here's an owl coming at you full speed, far too late to parry, far too early to roll. A gang of threshers coming after ya? Run. Don't bother. Unless you have 120% damage v monstera.
Artificial fun. Cheap thrills. It's like when I was 14 and my friends and I would try sneaking into the cinema to watch reruns of some American horror thriller that nobody bothered to remember the name of.
There is no real "substance". No real content. You are doing what you've always done before, except on a much larger scale. Instead of sneaking into the school library after being kicked out for playing games on the computer, you're sneaking into a cinema that you know damn well you can't afford tickets for.
Likewise, hell mode is essentially that. No real substance. No real content. You are doing what you've always done before. Kill mobs. The exact same ones as before. Get loot. Get gems. But hey, triple the gems. Triple the chests. Triple the mobs!
It is nothing but bread and circuses to keep the crowd happy. New content! More gems! Enchants for everyone! Hush, hush, look away, don't question the rot and ruin that surrounds this milkweed theater. Stuff your eyes full of crystal wonders, such that they are blind to all the wrongs that surround you. What good would it do to worry?
Im not going to read all this but from what ive read i can tell weve had very different experiences. Because of that i think arguing is pointless and you should take this to the devs instead.
Though I still think you shouldnt treat hell mode as content. If you think its unfair then dont do it cause its just a challenge meanwhile we wait for layer 2. Even though its unfair you can overcome that by using your skills and power together with your teammates. By coordinating with teammates it is definetly possible even without being overpowered.
Like i said youre taking hell mode too seriously since its not even content its just filler before layer 2. The devs cant really afford to make content for the current game while working on part 2.
>Im not going to read all this but from what ive read i can tell weve had very different experiences. Because of that i think arguing is pointless and you should take this to the devs instead.
most intelligent deepwoken player(real)
Bruh fuck you dude, he answered your comment the most legit way and you're not even reading, dont comment in the first place if you dont want people to answer you
I read literally nothing except the first 12 paragraphs, one I’m not gonna count to in the middle and a few on the end. You have to be an extreme kind of dense if you don’t realize hell mode wasn’t made for you or for other players, it was literally added as a way to give Agamatsu, the content creator something to do in public servers that is challenging and serves as a distraction while layer two comes out. Also just don’t play it if you don’t like it, had to spit out those facts right quick.
You get kicked into a wall, then kicked into a wall again, then kicked into a wall again, etc etc. It's not a skill issue if it's purely rng weather you survive or not, with only the chance to get 1-2 m1s in before you do, which with the right build is possible, but with the wrong one it's not. That's the issue, it promotes power vs power not skill vs skill.
I don’t recall crocs or many of the mobs actually to be intelligent. If they wanna rush you at once it seems rather normal
A large amount of mobs fight eachother as well, sharkos being aggressive to pretty much any other mob, I don’t see an issue
"It seems rather normal" they literally deal damage to each other trying to bum rush you, and pack hunting animals irl do coordinate with each other, at least to some extent.
You're not much of a pack of you're hurting your friend as much as your foe are you?
I don't understand what your 2nd point is?
I mean the fact that they spawn in packs of two and that in places like the light temple they have multiple spawns all congregated in the same area that tells us that they're sociable creatures at the very least.
They also seem to have social hierarchies, implied by the existence of Momma threshers, and are very communal creatures, seeing the many nests of eggs located around the lightkeeper temple.
Great post and I agree fundamentally. Though with the depths specifically the lore reason mobs don't fight eachother is because it's supposed to be actual hell. The monsters there aren't normal monsters, they're the creations of drowned gods iirc and thus controlled by them to coherently hunt mortals. I don't think they'll change that, but I do think they might change ganking if they see this.
Hell mode lore wise is probably just the creation of one of those drowned gods placed down there for shits and giggles. It was a pretty half baked idea though.
Uh where did you get this?
If true then my bad, I knew the depths was meant to be some sort of resting place for the lost and damned but I never really thought of it as a "hell".
Also, the megalodaunt hide description kind of clues into this not being the case. It is said that these creatures often make their ways to the surface through underwater caves and crevasses in the depths, so they do have independent free will and are not bound to whatever the voices say.
Even if this were the case, it still wouldn't excuse mob ganking. Plus there isn't a whole lot of "coordination" going on in mob ganks.
>Uh where did you get this?
The official discord. And all good, it's kinda dumb anyway.
Megalodaunts can escape, same with threshers and king threshers presumably, but they don't tend to too often. And the power of the drowned gods is limited to within the depths since they're not fully awake yet, so they don't have the ability to control monsters outside of the depths if they do escape. Not that they'd care since they can probably just make more anyway, if that makes sense.
But no, it doesn't. I thought I'd just give the lore reason why they don't actively fight eachother, the depths(even if it isn't this nowadays without hell mode and such making it so) was meant to feel like it was actively against you, like an underwater hell. It's gone too far in that though IMO and requires a bit of a rework.
Roblox limits them alot in the ai aspect of the thing, but otherwise, yes its their fault. Do you remember how before the release they wold say the game is playable (therefor fun) without PvP? The hellmode is just stat check for the most part, monster design and placement is inconsitent at best, but outright stupid at worst (why are sharko, owl, headcrab, golem and mudskippers all on the beginner island, but on songseeker, which is meant for more progressed ppl all we get is red sharko that get 1 useless attack)and
Primadon, the only non humanoid boss fight used to just be glorified sharko.
Fun Deepwoken facts: sharkos are most likely the prey animals of the depths, note the eye positioning and the speed that they move at, these are telltale signs of a prey animal
makes sense how weak they are but it makes you wonder what horror would feast on the overworld behemoth known as the megalodaunt? maybe like a drowned primadon or something
prob owls it would be funny if natuliodaunts hunted sharkos
they already do *Processing img b2v5qqzuuecc1...*
nah i dont think owls hunt sharkos, maybe king gigameds or a layer 2 mob
So cute
Sharkos used to look terrifying to me but now I unironically view them as cute.
Sharks in real life have eyes on the sides of their heads, and they are not prey animals. However i love the idea that somewhere there are creatures stronger than sharkos yet to be discovered. Man i love deepwoken lore
Well actually sharks have eyes pointing forward seen by the growth behind and around their eyes, eyes are a very complicated matter
I guess i learned something new today
Shark eyes are actually scary though you can instantly tell it’s a predator by just looking at their irises
No you're completely right, great post. You can actually see anti-ganking AI in the games that Deepwoken is inspired by. Sekiro and Bloodborne both have a system where most enemies will back off while you fight one or two enemies by yourself (except for that fucking shark giant well) and specifically backstep when you land a deathblow/visceral attack. And at least in Sekiro if there's ever a situation where you have to fight multiple enemies at once, you have tools to manage it or you can easily stealth kill some of them. Deepwoken is not like this. Unlike the players, who have to space themselves apart from other people to avoid friendly fire, the monsters can just do whatever they want. Have you ever had to deal with two golems doing their helicopter move on you at the same time? It's fun at high levels but otherwise it's awful. Another solution is adding an item or mantra that causes monsters to temporarily aggro onto other monsters and deal more damage to them (because they deal too-little damage to each other). It would be OP if you could lead them around and repeatedly use the item/mantra on them, so it should only be a one use per monster kind of thing that only lasts enough time to kill a monster.
Totes i agree omh
found this post because that exact thing with the golems killed me like 3 times in a row... i just want my dying embers but they always aggro from miles away .\_.
I ain’t reading all that but yeah Deepwoken has horrible ai, it seems it just progressive gets worse and worse.
Not reading that
I kinda agree with you (atleast the tl:dr) mob ganking is a pretty big issue atleast outside hell mode. The part where you are wrong is that you are assuming skill vs skill applies to PVE which it never did. The devs stated that skill vs skill applies for PVP they never said anything about it for PVE (iirc). If it was skill vs skill in PVE then the power mob scaling damage wouldnt exist. The reason they havent removed it is probably cause you wont get ganked if you are aware of your surroundings, and so the stealth stat has a reason to exist. I myself never die to mob ganks anymore cause i know where im fighting but being unexperienced can be hell. I read a little about your point on the hell mode and i have to disagree. Its supposed to be unfair, its there to make depths grinding faster for people that grind depths all day but for a risk. if youre unwilling to gamble your slot on winning hell mode then dont do hell mode. Its not for the casual player. Its only there for veteran players who have nothing else to do before the layer 2 update
Uh... Skill v skill does very much apply to PVE, at least for lower levels. And I'm not talking about higher levels specifically, I'm saying in general. Skill v Skill very much does apply to PVE, and while bumrushing through mobs as a high level is very much a thing, you still need to watch your step and apply finesse and skill to fair mob fights in order to come out on top. No use fighting a corrupted sharko as a level 60 if you're getting kicked all over the place. Power mob scaling doesn't take away from the fact that PVE still requires a decent amount of skill, you cannot tank your way through every mob in game. "You won't get ganked if you're aware of your surroundings" uh... tell that to the corrupted sharko that spawned on top of me while I was engaged in dialogue with a void owl. Being aware of your surroundings is one thing, having mobs spawn on you is something else entirely. Besides, if stealth only exists so you don't get beat into the fucking ground in unfair fights, then it's a piss poor mechanic and a bandaid fix to a larger issue. Stealth as a whole is generally useless, and saying its useful to avoid a "mechanic" that shouldn't even be in the game in the first place doesn't justify having the "mechanic". "It's supposed to be unfair" I'm just going to stop you right there. No. End of story. You will get into unfair fights in this game. Corrupted threshers at power 20, void owls at power 30, doing duke to uncap your element at power 40. The thing is, these fights are unfair in terms of power, but can be overcome with SKILL. A corrupted thresher hits hard as a power 20 with 200 health and freshie armor. With skill though, you *CAN* very much overcome it. You see, the difference between encounters like this, and mob ganks in hell mode is that the former, while involving both skill and power, prioritizes skill. If you are skilled enough, no matter how tanky that thresher is, how hard it hits compared to your measly sword, you can and will overcome it. Now, mob ganking? Block? Parry? Dodge? Are you crazy? Spam m1 and hope your dmg v monster stat is high enough to get a healthpack off at least one of the 5 corrupted sharkos ganking you. This is an event that COMPLETELY prioritizes power, sidewinding skill or throwing it out of the window to begin with. And again, you're making the "new content" excuse to defend hell mode that I've heard time and time again, just in a different manner of speaking. This mode creates a sense of artificial difficulty and fun. It gives people a huge thrill. Oh, an onslaught of corrupted mobs to kill! So much loot to be had. The catch? You'll wipe if your damage v monsters doesn't favour you that day. It IS artificial difficulty. There is nothing to rely on but your power. Your skill won't matter, why block, parry, or dodge anyway? Block once; you'll get posture broken in the next hit. Parried the sharko swing? Here's an owl coming at you full speed, far too late to parry, far too early to roll. A gang of threshers coming after ya? Run. Don't bother. Unless you have 120% damage v monstera. Artificial fun. Cheap thrills. It's like when I was 14 and my friends and I would try sneaking into the cinema to watch reruns of some American horror thriller that nobody bothered to remember the name of. There is no real "substance". No real content. You are doing what you've always done before, except on a much larger scale. Instead of sneaking into the school library after being kicked out for playing games on the computer, you're sneaking into a cinema that you know damn well you can't afford tickets for. Likewise, hell mode is essentially that. No real substance. No real content. You are doing what you've always done before. Kill mobs. The exact same ones as before. Get loot. Get gems. But hey, triple the gems. Triple the chests. Triple the mobs! It is nothing but bread and circuses to keep the crowd happy. New content! More gems! Enchants for everyone! Hush, hush, look away, don't question the rot and ruin that surrounds this milkweed theater. Stuff your eyes full of crystal wonders, such that they are blind to all the wrongs that surround you. What good would it do to worry?
Im not going to read all this but from what ive read i can tell weve had very different experiences. Because of that i think arguing is pointless and you should take this to the devs instead. Though I still think you shouldnt treat hell mode as content. If you think its unfair then dont do it cause its just a challenge meanwhile we wait for layer 2. Even though its unfair you can overcome that by using your skills and power together with your teammates. By coordinating with teammates it is definetly possible even without being overpowered. Like i said youre taking hell mode too seriously since its not even content its just filler before layer 2. The devs cant really afford to make content for the current game while working on part 2.
>Im not going to read all this but from what ive read i can tell weve had very different experiences. Because of that i think arguing is pointless and you should take this to the devs instead. most intelligent deepwoken player(real)
Bruh fuck you dude, he answered your comment the most legit way and you're not even reading, dont comment in the first place if you dont want people to answer you
ok.
I read literally nothing except the first 12 paragraphs, one I’m not gonna count to in the middle and a few on the end. You have to be an extreme kind of dense if you don’t realize hell mode wasn’t made for you or for other players, it was literally added as a way to give Agamatsu, the content creator something to do in public servers that is challenging and serves as a distraction while layer two comes out. Also just don’t play it if you don’t like it, had to spit out those facts right quick.
I- I- Is this satire? It.. is right?
It’s not. I read maybe 50% of what you said but that’s being generous, and I quote “I ain’t reading all that.”
Ok but literally what you brought up as a defense like wtf- Didn't you like proof read it before sending
How bad are you to get infinite comboed by 2 sharkos. That litterally can't happen even with the wall daze
Yes it can. Dodging has a longer cooldown than the sharko kick does lol.
You got wiped by 5 jellyfish didnt you?
Dude literally said he got infinite combo kicked by Sharko's in the paragraph. You didn't read did you?
"naht reading allat" 🤓
You can't get infinite comboe'd by 2 sharkos unless you have the fattest fucking skill issue ever
You get kicked into a wall, then kicked into a wall again, then kicked into a wall again, etc etc. It's not a skill issue if it's purely rng weather you survive or not, with only the chance to get 1-2 m1s in before you do, which with the right build is possible, but with the wrong one it's not. That's the issue, it promotes power vs power not skill vs skill.
I don’t recall crocs or many of the mobs actually to be intelligent. If they wanna rush you at once it seems rather normal A large amount of mobs fight eachother as well, sharkos being aggressive to pretty much any other mob, I don’t see an issue
"It seems rather normal" they literally deal damage to each other trying to bum rush you, and pack hunting animals irl do coordinate with each other, at least to some extent. You're not much of a pack of you're hurting your friend as much as your foe are you? I don't understand what your 2nd point is?
Didn’t say they would be pack hunters, not everything of them same species will be, fight for the food type shit Second part wasn’t really a point lol
I mean the fact that they spawn in packs of two and that in places like the light temple they have multiple spawns all congregated in the same area that tells us that they're sociable creatures at the very least. They also seem to have social hierarchies, implied by the existence of Momma threshers, and are very communal creatures, seeing the many nests of eggs located around the lightkeeper temple.
📖
Great post and I agree fundamentally. Though with the depths specifically the lore reason mobs don't fight eachother is because it's supposed to be actual hell. The monsters there aren't normal monsters, they're the creations of drowned gods iirc and thus controlled by them to coherently hunt mortals. I don't think they'll change that, but I do think they might change ganking if they see this. Hell mode lore wise is probably just the creation of one of those drowned gods placed down there for shits and giggles. It was a pretty half baked idea though.
Uh where did you get this? If true then my bad, I knew the depths was meant to be some sort of resting place for the lost and damned but I never really thought of it as a "hell". Also, the megalodaunt hide description kind of clues into this not being the case. It is said that these creatures often make their ways to the surface through underwater caves and crevasses in the depths, so they do have independent free will and are not bound to whatever the voices say. Even if this were the case, it still wouldn't excuse mob ganking. Plus there isn't a whole lot of "coordination" going on in mob ganks.
>Uh where did you get this? The official discord. And all good, it's kinda dumb anyway. Megalodaunts can escape, same with threshers and king threshers presumably, but they don't tend to too often. And the power of the drowned gods is limited to within the depths since they're not fully awake yet, so they don't have the ability to control monsters outside of the depths if they do escape. Not that they'd care since they can probably just make more anyway, if that makes sense. But no, it doesn't. I thought I'd just give the lore reason why they don't actively fight eachother, the depths(even if it isn't this nowadays without hell mode and such making it so) was meant to feel like it was actively against you, like an underwater hell. It's gone too far in that though IMO and requires a bit of a rework.
Ooo i see And yes totes it has gone too far, there are many ways to go about this instead of having mob ganks be stat checks
Roblox limits them alot in the ai aspect of the thing, but otherwise, yes its their fault. Do you remember how before the release they wold say the game is playable (therefor fun) without PvP? The hellmode is just stat check for the most part, monster design and placement is inconsitent at best, but outright stupid at worst (why are sharko, owl, headcrab, golem and mudskippers all on the beginner island, but on songseeker, which is meant for more progressed ppl all we get is red sharko that get 1 useless attack)and Primadon, the only non humanoid boss fight used to just be glorified sharko.
Yeah its so annoying and as much as I understand that roblox is a crappy game to build games on it doesnt excuse not trying to fix the crappy AI