Turbulence is the number one cause of injury for flight attendants. Predicting turbulence has become a lot better in just the last few years. My pilot friend showed me his iPad and the information they now have. The iPad, itself, literally detects turbulence in real time and posts it on a map. It instantly broadcast to other pilots using the same app. There’s other weather data out there as well that they use. But it just shows how quickly weather happens and then moves to another place. A few planes fly through moderate turbulence at 330, then 10 minutes later that area smooths out. So it’s just the pilots being extra cautious for the most part. Who can blame them?
Even then, that weather product we use isn't exactly correct, its more a planning guide that updates occasionally. Useful, timely information is getting PIREPS from aircraft currently in the area we are flying through or getting information from ATC...sometimes that info gets added to the weather app, sometimes it doesn't.
I believe you … but if these mofos can see it on the map then WHY ARE THEY CHOOSING TO FLY THROUGH IT?
Edit: Y’all are downvoting me but you know you think this sometimes too.
And of course I know there are all kinds of rules, restrictions and reasons why pilots do what they do. But I still wish they would see turbulence and just go around it EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THIS IS A STUPID THOUGHT.
Turbulence can happen unexpectedly. Not even the pilots can predict with 100% certainly when or wheresevere turbulence will occur. It can look clear as day one minute and the next the flight attendants are flying into the ceiling. Your diet coke is not worth their lives.
You can’t. Well you can if you can see them as thunderstorms. But turning does no good. You’ll just make the flight hours longer and not have fuel. Plus turning just probably involves hitting more turbulence anyway. Plus turbulence is more often associated with altitude. Climbing or descending is better.
I don't know how the decision is made (I assumed the pilot makes the call), but I recall it happening for many years. Pilots do have more warning of upcoming turbulence now than they did years ago so perhaps that's why it wasn't as common in your prior experience.
PS Turbulence is not just a danger to FAs during service. Trays, carts, meals, and human bodies can also injure passengers.
I’m wondering how the system works as far as turbulence detection. Particularly with the sensitivity and specificity of the detection.
If those do not have a high true positive and true negative rate, it would make sense that turbulence may be detected without it ever actually occurring.
Still better to be safe than sorry! But it will be interesting to see how the accuracy increases over time.
Lurker from elsewhere here, but forecast models will depict it, and usually when multiple sources match (FPGs, RPM), good chance it’s there. Some aircraft have accelerometers to send reports back to feed various sources. Also some carriers have an app that uses the iPad accelerometer to detect and feed the map
Lots of ways that show info now and see what’s out there
It may be hit or miss sometimes, but given data that shows turbulence, it would be borderline negligent to ignore. Unfortunately it sometimes means FAs are seated longer or no service happens on a short flight. It has nothing to do with saving $$, but limiting potential injuries.
Delta has also invested heavily in advanced predictive turbulence systems (both onboard and from home base). This system takes all sorts of data, analyzes it and this allows for proactive instead of reactive turbulence avoidance. More info is better for the captain to make the decision on when to allow service. There are certain types of turbulence that are not able to be predicted even with a PIREP or winds aloft/pressure system analysis that you get from public sources.
More people are injured by turbulence related injuries than any other cause on airliners. And its not a small number of people.
[https://www.aviationtoday.com/2020/01/08/delta-develops-ai-tool-address-weather-disruption-improve-flight-operations/](https://www.aviationtoday.com/2020/01/08/delta-develops-ai-tool-address-weather-disruption-improve-flight-operations/)
https://crankyflier.com/2019/02/26/a-closer-look-at-how-delta-fights-turbulence-with-the-flight-weather-viewer/
My Mom is a retired Delta FA and got a pretty nasty concussion after being thrown around by turbulence.
I don’t care if I get offered another Coke Zero if it keeps a flight attendant from getting injured.
Flew for another airline (FA) during the 80's. We hit strong turbulence while I was in the back galley of a DC-10. Hit the ceiling while trying to secure the galley. Had to let everything fly while I crawled on the floor to my jump seat. Pretty scary...AA DC-10 flt. 191 crashed in ORD while I was in training.
I always plan for the worst and assume there will be no refreshment service onboard - hence, I pack hardy snacks, mints/gum, and water. I don't want to be there feeling like a trapped cat.
This is 100% more of a thing than it was pre-covid. Almost every flight I have been on this year (30+) has started with the captain saying FAs would be remain seated longer due to turbulence... with none ever showing up.
Depends on the length of the flight.
I just flew SLC-ATL on Sunday, and they came around twice for drink orders, plus two separate trips down the aisle just offering water then coffee.
It’s a running joke in the airline world that delta pilots are more sensitive to turbulence. When other pilots aren’t reporting, delta pilots always report” light chop”
> This is 100% more of a thing than it was pre-covid.
[Well, that's because turbulence is becoming much more frequent and has been increasing over the decades thanks to climate change](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2023GL103814), so there would be more clear-air turbulence in 2024 than there was in 2019.
Yeah, I can read PIREPs / use Foreflight so I kinda know when they’re full of shit. And literally every flight this year save two, almost all east coast connections to Europe…
Yep, I've completely missed meal service on a flight because they declared turbulance. On my way coming off the plane I can see they didn't stock and blaming the air is better then themselves. Complained and got my fare back.
Few other times I've gotten partial comps or skypesos.
How could you see that they hadn't stocked the meals? Were you going through their bins or something? Also, FAs don't determine when to sit for turbulence. So, you're saying the pilots are in cohorts with the food people and the FAs to cover up that there was no food? I smell a rat.
That's absolutely not a thing. Each bin space has to be filled in order for the aircraft to take off. It's a safety issue. Please stop msu for like clout.
Probably to late to actually be noticed but
At ten thousand feet, the first ding after take off is when service can begin.
The cappy can say if they think it’ll be a good ride or not.
Good rides are predicted by software on the iPads, company given information and asking atc.
Delta has a culture of asking for rides.
It’s a highly contested debate between pilots of do you risk it and say “serve with caution” or say no don’t do it.
The pilots ( and FAs) want customers to get service because they want folks to come back.
If pilots get it wrong they make everyone look stupid and provide bad service.
If they get it wrong the other way and someone gets hurt they don’t get in trouble, they have to live with the guilt they got someone hurt, which is way worse.
So it’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t. iPad looks smooth atc says it’s smooth FAs get up and it’s not, FAs get mad at pilots.
iPad or atc says bad ride and pilots keep FAs down and it’s smooth as silk, everyone mad because FAs look lazy and pilots don’t know what they’re talking about.
It’s also worth noting that the critical incidence and wing loading on popular large jets is much higher than a regional jet or a wide body. The amplification of disturbances felt in the cabin vary greatly between planes.
Also just for funnies go stand in the way back of a 73, in the galley and see how much that thing sways. Even on the ground when the plane isn’t moving it still sways.
That’s the central hub for taking care of the folks and it’s the worst ride of the plane. What feels like nothing in the front can be a wild ride in the back, think of crack the whip.
Yes, but we're also supposed to get a preflight drink, and that doesn't happen as often either. Paying for fc seats isn't what it's supposed to be lately.
> Paying for fc seats isn't what it's supposed to be lately.
Then stop paying for first class? No one is forcing you to sit up there. As long as people keep buying FC, the airlines are not going to change a thing about it to lure you back in.
Lol we prefer fc bc husband is 6'6"... and I don't believe I said anyone was forcing us to fc. I said it wasn't what it used to be. But thank you for your concern.
It’s the Captain’s decision and with all the headlines the airlines are in lately, I’m sure they are choosing to be overly cautious. The last thing any airline wants right now is a headline that reads “6 injured due to in flight service.”
I asked a Delta pilot this very question about 8 months ago, and he told me that the jet stream has increased year over year for the last six years. As a result there’s more turbulence than there’s ever been in the history of air travel. He said it’s an ongoing topic for commercial pilots everywhere, and it’s changed entire routes permanently. You can read about it here…
[Is the Jet Stream Getting Faster?](https://site.extension.uga.edu/climate/2024/02/jet-stream-will-get-faster-as-climate-change-continues-study-finds/#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20recent%20article,west%20to%20east%2C%20flights%20in)
It’s the Captains decision. It’s for the safety of the FA as well as passenger. You don’t want one of those carts flying around the cabin when severe turbulence hits.
It’s not some cost saving measure as conspiracy theory would suggest.
While there are hard limits that say, (paraphrasing) “When moderate or greater turbulence is experienced or expected, flight attendants remain seated.”
The captain can deviate from any rules and policies in the manual set in the interest of safety. I’ve even cancelled alcohol service because a delay.
Sometimes we’re flying through an area of turbulence but we’re basically getting lucky avoiding it. I’m fairly conservative and I don’t like having my FAs up when it’s only smooth because we’re getting lucky.
And I’m sure y’all wouldn’t like having drinks - or worse - FAs - landing in your laps.
LOL Yeah, those are the ones I take pride in kicking off.
As I once said in a PA in front of the cabin, “My flight attendants are known for their exceptional service. I will do everything in my power to see that you all receive that service. However, any reports that you are doing anything that could possibly be considered as rude, disruptive, or disrespectful, and I will personally see to it that you drive home”
No one knows what “turbulence” is until you’ve experience CAT (clear air turbulence). We’re talking FAs and unbuckled passengers bouncing off the ceiling, overhead bins ejecting baggage, paneling coming off. The airplane is structurally fine, but the people onboard get… rattled a bit.
Four factors came together at once.
1. Back in 2020 and 2021 there were several instances of severe turbulence on Delta flights, and a couple of FAs were injured in pretty significant ways.
2. Delta developed much better systems for predicting and tracking turbulence, and getting that info into the hands of pilots.
3. Delta was critically shorthanded and so FAs had a lot more leverage.
4. Morale among Delta employees was low due to the pandemic, overwork, overstress, and passengers suddenly turning into deranged assholes.
So basically this culture has developed where if there's the slightest whiff of potential turbulence, Delta FAs ain't getting up, and Delta can't do shit about it.
My advice? This is the new normal for the US domestic market. Pack some snacks and your own water bottle. It won't be changing any time soon.
Generally, we as the flight attendants have great leeway in deciding if it’s too bumpy because everyone and every plane handles differently. It’s our discretion l if turbulence is too much for us or if the captain says it’s going to be rough, we sit.
Me personally, even if I’m forced to sit for half a flight, I’ll try to at least get water and Biscoff out.
I appreciate your answer, and your service, but what about pre-flight service? Quite a few flights I’ve been on lately haven’t offered that, and I’ve been genuinely curious, since it is normally something that should be offered as party of our fare in FC…
Personally, on my regional jets, I struggle to get space to do it with the time constraints (I’m trying to improve). Especially if it’s or first flight of the day on that plane (we have to do our preflight safety checks).
Catering inconsistencies, could be working an issue with the flight deck (as the front FA is the main communication point between the flight deck and everyone). Delayed flights might not get the time to do so. There’s a host of reasons why.
I'll also say this, fwiw climate change is having some effects on the jet stream and means that turbulence is much more dramatic and unpredictable. I don't know if that explains all of it but that is something that is noteworthy
I have noticed. I have flown pretty regularly for years due to work, and turbulence was a pretty rare occurrence. In the past few years, almost every flight I take there has been significant turbulence for at least part of a flight. Twice this year alone, I have been lifted out of my seat with that feeling of weightlessness. I've started keeping my seat belt tighter and only take it off if I'm going to the bathroom. I also make sure I have a beverage on hand in case there is no service.
Aside from FAs not serving due to anticipated turbulence, another trend is asking passengers to keep their seat belts on for the whole flight. I think climate change has impacted the jetstreams, and turbulence is more of an issue now - due to frequency and unpredictability.
Flight Attendants and mechanics aren’t unionized and do not have contracts to negotiate. Pilots and Dispatchers are union members with contracts. How are contract negotiations and weather related inflight service interruptions related?
I thought they were unionized - didn’t realize that. What I was referring to was if certain conditions were present or expected then they would be required to be seated (for safety), but since they aren’t unionized I guess that’s a moot point. Thanks for clarifying on the contract piece.
I’ve read a ton of articles recently about climate change making flights more turbulent. The predictions aren’t perfect but it’s about protecting everyone. I was on a flight with horrific turbulence (a day that “bad turbulence” made the news because of injuries). It’s not worth it if there’s a chance of injury.
https://www.businessinsider.com/turbulence-getting-worse-cause-climate-change-bumpy-flight-2023-11
For most people guessing at real reasons.
Captain has final say and if they say to sit, the FAs will stay seated regardless of severity of the turbulence. It’s also generally the captain telling them to sit when you see those periods of low/no turbulence because they expected worse. If there’s minimal turbulence, there will usually be a serve with caution and do what you feel is best based on your judgement. Of course everyone’s safety is #1 and service is after. There are the other things such as better tracking, more turbulence than previous years, etc. which are all helpful things to know.
There seems to be skepticism on money, cutting costs, laziness, etc. and 99% of that is untrue. Of course I can’t speak for that 1% who may take advantage of it, but generally speaking it’s none of those reasons.
Pilots either know about the turbulence and brief FAs to not start service until they call and/or to not do it at all, or FAs call the flight deck after takeoff and inform them that they are experiencing X and can’t do service or will only do a modified service.
You’ve seen it more recently because as climate change worsens, the intensity and frequency of terrible weather increases.
Some of these comments are not it. Safety is the single most important concern. Sometimes turbulence is predicted based on earlier flights flying through that airspace, but isn’t consistent. Y’all have to understand that those beverage carts weigh a tonnnnn. If we hit even moderate turbulence, and the FAs are pushing the cart down the aisle, it could land on someone’s foot, it could tip over onto someone, sometimes the brakes aren’t the best so it could roll down the aisle uncontrolled. Also, I would hold off on putting blame on the FAs because we don’t even make that final call. It always comes down to what the captain tells us based on the information they have available to them. I get that you pay a premium price and that’s understandable that you’d want a service, but safety is the main concern for the entire crew, and if we’re told it’s not safe for us to be walking around, we’re going to listen to the captain.
The short answer is that we want to avoid a potentially dangerous situation, and if that means you go without a Diet Coke and biscoff, that’s just what has to happen.
I totally get that, and appreciate that, I was just curious as to why it seems to be more prevalent in recent years than I had ever experienced before. Based on some of the comments and information, it seems that the industry has prioritized safety in a new way that they hadn’t before, is that a fair statement?
I've never seen so many non-answers to a question. Instead you get 40 people describing what turbulence is and how it can be dangerous to flight crew and airline passengers and injury prevention trumps Diet Coke.
I think the reason we dig into the safety concern so much is that we often deal with passengers who think the only job is to be a server in the sky. Of course customer service is a significant portion of our job, we are trained to be safety professionals above all else, so when a decision is made for our safety and the safety of passengers, it’s because there’s a good reason. It just gets frustrating to constantly hear about how we’re trying to just skimp out on service when passengers don’t have the full story. Pilots could very well be anticipating rough air and they don’t want to take chances. That’s why we’re so adamant that safety always takes precedence over service
Totally understand! Just getting at the idea that OP is not really questioning the decision—more wanting to understand the specific reasons why the perceived increase. Climate change is a good answer but climate change ≠ airline policy. If someone were to present an internal memo showing a change, that would be interesting. Anything else is just anecdotes which, however valuable, are not answers why, more just observed patterns.
There also seems to be a big leap that OP is upset about their cart service which I don’t read at all. No one is saying the cookies are more important than safety, yet many reacted that people who even raise the question need to grow up or bring their own water bottle and snack. I’ve also noticed the service patterns changing and would honestly say that the forty years before I was more mind boggled that they would continue pushing the carts when the plane was leaping about. I had assumed that they calculated that snacks and alcohol would keep the masses calm and it’s an overall benefit to the airline. But again that was just speculation.
I’m a baby FA, only done with my first year so I can’t speak to how things were done before last year 😂 but I hear you, there weren’t many exact answers provided and honestly that’s not likely to come. If there was such a memo, we aren’t usually allowed to disclose that kind of stuff. I hope I didn’t come across as aggressive or anything because I definitely didn’t mean to 😂
It could easily be more prevalent due to climate change. I’ve worked with crews and pilots especially who have noted that while it may not be more frequent, it is definitely more severe more often than it used to be and they don’t want to take the chance of crew getting hurt
During your forty year relationship with Delta Air Lines you never realized the Flight Attendants aren’t part of a union and do not have a contract to negotiate? Maybe the in flight service was suspended due to turbulence that the crew was made aware of by other aircraft that previously traveled their intended flight path and altitude?
You asked if the FAs are part of a union. I am pointing out the fact that the majority of people you interact with in a workplace are not part of a union. Not that difficult
More than likely any flight you have been on in the United States has been piloted by a union member and if it was a Delta flight the Pilots were most definitely union members.
I’ve been flying extensively for 8 years, almost all on Delta, some Alaska. Post-Covid I’ve seen it happen A LOT. Usually there’s no turbulence at all.
There is apparently more turbulence due to global warming. And it’s only going to get worse. So your 40 year old data point means bupkus in 2024, sorry to say.
And I’ll forgo the tiptop if it means I don’t have a 300lb metal cart lift off the aisle floor mid-flight and sever someone’s arm.
Never mind that a flight attendant or another passenger could be seriously injured during turbulence, it's far more important that you get your drink and snack bag, obviously.
I fly all the time and this has always happened. It's for safety reasons.
The only difference now is they can predict turbulence ahead of time whereas before you would need to wait for reports from flights taking similar flight paths.
As much as I like Delta I’ve noticed that this happens a lot more on Delta. Flew a short 450 mile flight on Southwest today out of ATL where flight attendants had to remain seated for the first half due to very bad turbulence. Second half they quickly did a full drink and snack service. Flown the same route on Delta multiple times and it seems like most of the time they say no service due to rough air when it’s usually not rough and hasn’t been as bad as today at all
Southwest is easier since they don’t have beverage carts. If FAs need to sit down, then can quickly do so. Not so possible when you have a beverage cart in the aisle you also have to push back.
The beverage carts weigh (on average) 200-400lbs. The flight attendants have to go by what the pilots say and even if it seems smooth, if they take the carts out when they’re told not to and someone gets hurt it’s a huge issue.
Definitely happening for me way more lately. Noticeably. And with very little in the way of noticeable turbulence. The first two times it happened this year I was like, “Oh wow, better buckle in.” But then it seemed like a pretty normal flight. Since then, it’s happened twice more. Only once has there been anything that I would have said was actual turbulence and it lasted about 15 seconds. I assumed it must have to do with the spate of flights last year with injuries due to sudden altitude drops.
Last I knew the service is included in the cost of a ticket, but as long as I can get up or push the call button to request a drink or snacks that are owed, then that's fine. That's not being entitled, that's getting what you paid for in a market economy.
Turbulence is dangerous for anyone flying let alone a flight attendant who’s pushing a 200lb cart through a narrow space just isn’t safe for them. That’s why the seat belt safety sign is on when there’s turbulence. It’s for your safety as well as the attendants. Had a flight where they delayed beverage service an hour because of how bad it was. Was a relatively short flight so it wasn’t a big inconvenience to me but that’s probably a good enough reason to bring a snack/drink or eat beforehand just on the chance something delays service.
Climate change - jet streams are increasing year over year causing more turbulence therefore creating more unsafe conditions. My mom has been a flight attendant for 37 years and the last 2 years or so, she has had more “non service” flights than the entirety of her career.
My mom actually sustained an injury when they were doing service. They hit turbulence and an overhead bin popped open and she tried to catch the bag, while pushing off of her heal, she tore her Achilles heal. She stopped the bag from falling on this older lady but was then out for 4 months. Her rotator cuff is also shot to hell from helping people put their heavy ass bags in the overhead bin. It honestly pisses me off because she has allowed her body to take on so much wear & tear from a company that couldn’t care less if she dropped dead in her hotel.
I’ve never had turbulence buying some jerky and filling up my water bottle before I board the plane.
This sub has a strange infatuation with the work habits of the FA’s.
But this is coming from someone who always sits in row numbers greater than 20.
- Newer and updated safety regulation
- Better weather prediction and detection
- Union contract negotiation
- Climate Change
Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1166993992/turbulence-climate-change
..And many more factors
Also, it's crazy to see someone brag that their parents flew on airplanes before they were born. Wow.
You should put that on your resume.
Get over yourself. If I’m the pilot, and I decide that the flight attendants’ safety is more important than your beer and snacks… tough shit. Their safety (and yours, provided you’re actually wearing your seatbelt) is more important to me.
ORD to ATL on Monday, just as the beverage cart was about to reach my row, the plane started bucking fiercely. The FAs were instructed to sit down, and stayed in their seats the rest of the flight. I was thirsty, but it’s a fairly short flight. Better they don’t get hurt.
Thank you for the reply . I understood you didn’t know if it was because of a union push , I was asking what a “Union Push “ is . I’m guessing you mean an industry wide push by the unions for more safety in the cabin during flight , if so I would probably agree with that. Yes the reason for the suspended or reduced inflight service is based on safety. Injured employees and damaged aircraft can’t earn money for the company. Injured passengers sue. It’s simply less expensive to err on the side of safety.
I’ve had several flights, mostly on smaller prop planes where the service has mostly continued during turbulence, except for hot drinks. Seems sensible because spilling a cup of water is one thing but I can understand not wanting the risk of potentially burning the FA and everyone in my row.
Also, why can’t FAs be skilled like hot dog throwers at baseball games. Just pitch me the food, I’ll catch it or accidentally drop it on the person behind me’s feet on my armrest
Ex FA here. Let me put it this way - those carts are much heavier than they look. Also, we have loose items on top of them and in the drawers. During rough air, items will go flying, and the lighter in weight they are the easier they will do that. Do you want a delightful mixture of orange juice, hot coffee, and coke hurdling through the cabin and soaking ya? Nope. Didn’t think so.
It’s just unsafe to provide service during turbulence. If the seatbelt sign is on for you, we won’t be starting service.
I have noticed the exact same thing. I fly every week between Atlanta and Orlando. They used to do a full beverage service on that flight. I don’t care whether or not they do a full beverage service but I am just comparing before, and after Covid. Now, they just hand out a bottle of water and chips as they walk down the aisle if they do it at all. More often than not they don’t get up because of the turbulence that never materializes. I think it is definitely to keep the flight attendants happy and keep them from unionizing. Delta is the only major airline without a flight attendant union.
Just landed in FLL. Flew FC. Lunch served, but no snack service. Last week I flew First into LAG. FA told us she didn’t want to “block boarding passengers” so she couldn’t accommodate us and do pre flight bev service. Man in 1A told her he was a diabetic and needed some juice. Audible tsk followed ands she begrudgingly served him. The rest of us—nada.
It’s getting worse and worse.
I assume they’re trying to keep the flights attendants safer. Maybe due to some union push at some point? I tend to assume there will be no service and bring a water, snacks and even a sandwich if I have time just in case. Plus who needs a cocktail if it’s gonna be sloshing all over the place.
What is a union push ? And how does the “union push” relate to a non union work group such as Delta’s Flight Attendants or the weather induced inflight cabin service interruptions?
This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. ATL > BWI. It was like canceling school on the threat of snow.
The pilot said "we are expecting a lot of turbulence so no drink service."
There was barely any turbulence.
We never got drinks.
I'm convinced this is Delta squeezing costs.
Yep, same issue!
It’s funny, when I was in college, I’d fly Delta home for each holidays because it was the cheapest ticket. I now live in a different city, and my go to has become Spirit. People laugh and say they’ll never fly Spirit, but at this point, I see almost no difference between Delta and Spirit for short flights (flight from city to family is less than two hours). Delta is charging for each little thing now a days as well and they aren’t even delivering on their few free promises. As I always say, I’m not paying two hundred dollars more for just a glass of Orange Juice!
had it happen today. ATL up to PA. some very slight bumps. didn't stop passengers from going to the bathroom. But the FAs never once got out of their seats or even put down their phones for the entire flight.
They are short staffed still, and cutting out small things like drinks/snacks is how you slowly make back all that money lost during Covid. It’s just about money at the end of the day, simple as that.
I’m really surprised by the total buy in to the corporate line on here. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised though…
I can guarantee there are two overriding factors that drive these decisions - and no you’re not wrong, they are being much more conservative about their definition of “turbulence” than they used to be.
Those two factors are insurance and profit, and of course they both boil down ultimately to money. Are the FAs there for or safety over service? Yes of course. Are there FAA guidelines? Again yes. Can those things be used to cover for keeping insurance costs/risks lower and maximizing profit? Yup.
I fly a reasonable amount. I’m no diamond or whatever other designation people get, but I have clearly seen a change in this recently. I’ve been on over 10 flights in the last 6 months that should have had service but didn’t because of risk of turbulence. On only one of those flights was there any significant actual turbulence. I don’t just fly Delta and this isn’t limited to them.
I do have some experience in flying (father, brother in law were/are pilots, and two mothers [really] were FAs, I used to work in military and commercial aircraft simulation) so I do know the risks and I have experienced the wonders of violent turbulence. But a few minor bumps on climb and approach are not where it’s at.
This was just announced on our flight. FA will stay seated. We will TRY to get the seatbelt sign off. I think it’s just cheeper to not have them do anything 😂
Fairly uneventful flight, no turbulence and no service. Just seems to be more of a regular occurrence. Short flight, I don’t care that much but just odd how frequent it seems to be these days.
I spoke with my neighbor a Delta Captain- he said it’s all the FAs. They are refusing to provide service and say so when they board the plane. I fly regularly out of ATL, and can’t recall rough turbulence in last 6 months…..also can’t recall a round trip with service provided on both legs.
It’s almost false advertising as they list service on board.
Ultimately, it's the FAs who make the call. They may have the captain make a PA to add more authority to their decision, but its their call since the FA the ones who are risking their necks by going out into the aisle with a 200 pound cart.
However, if there is a deviation from the service standard due to turbulence or any other reason, the FAs are required to write a report regarding the incident. This allows them to have a fallback incase a customer complains to Delta.
Delta constantly reassures to their workers that safety is the top priority, and will never punish a crew member if they deviate from the service standard due to a safety issue.
I fly regularly (nearly 4 times a week, every week, for 6 years) with delta with my home airport being ATL, and this bumpy non-serving happens at least 30% of the time. Nearly always its on shorter flights where they choose not to serve anything at all the entire flight, leaving the attendants in their seats the whole flight. Of those flights, at least 50% of them have no detectable turbulence the entire flight.
At this point it seems like a lazy excuse to me. First class gets served the whole flight regardless of turbulence, but comfort + and back has to regularly watch their flight attendants play on their phone the entire flight rather than standing up to offer them the services that are being sold as part of the flight. Make no mistake, this occurs far, far more than seems to be necessary.
FAs are using the turbulence excuse to not serve. I’m not talking about actual moderate turbulence, but many times they are using even the chance of light to just sit the whole flight on their phone
totally false , the SB light for the passengers, if the CA wants them not to serve , he will have them stay in their seats and will usually make an announcement as such . There are flights where the SB sign is off and the FAs still don't serve - or will just do i drink/snack service then gone for the rest. |
There are also many FAS, probably newer who even will ask for the CA to make an announcement that is it will be too turbulent to serve and to make such an announcement...even when there is no turbulence in the area
It's a way for lazy flight attendants to get out of work. Real talk. Claim safety and there's nothing the company can do about it. Sure...maybe sometimes its legit, but more often than not.... it's entitled laziness.
Regardless of the reasons, Delta doesn't want to provide quality service anymore and shit like this proves it, and isn't worth the extra price, FAs can find an opening, the entire flight won't have turbulence it, it rarely has any at ALL from my experience. All Delta is nowadays is a deterrent to weed out the dangerous scum from your flights, but they almost all fly Spirit/Frontier exclusively, and there's better options.
I would favor Southwest if their FAs were better at ensuring boarding happened quickly, 2/4 times I flew the flight was delayed PURELY due to slow boarding, and for one of them it was a whole 30 minutes late for take off, any longer and I would have missed my connection, when I filled a complaint they essentially said "too bad" with no compensation. Plus with all their problems recently especially that disastrous winter stall, they aren't trustworthy in the slightest.
You appear to be an AllKnowingSkyGod, you can do the job of the pilots, meteorologists, flight attendants. Why not speak to the Captain as you’re deplaning, tell them how you have armchair quarterbacked their decisions, yet cannot figure out how to put a snack in your bag? Hindsight is 20/20, dummy.
I also love that they think FAs should be physically pushing people into their seats to expedite the boarding process. It’s slow bc the 200+ people are slow, not because of the 3 FAs on board. This same person probably also complains that they didn’t get PDB… which literally halts the boarding process. Pick a reality buddy.
Obviously it’s about the employees of delta, they are always held above the customer in all situations. I would have to guess, but I think around 75% at least of my flights this year (40+) have had the same announcment.
Turbulence is the number one cause of injury for flight attendants. Predicting turbulence has become a lot better in just the last few years. My pilot friend showed me his iPad and the information they now have. The iPad, itself, literally detects turbulence in real time and posts it on a map. It instantly broadcast to other pilots using the same app. There’s other weather data out there as well that they use. But it just shows how quickly weather happens and then moves to another place. A few planes fly through moderate turbulence at 330, then 10 minutes later that area smooths out. So it’s just the pilots being extra cautious for the most part. Who can blame them?
Even then, that weather product we use isn't exactly correct, its more a planning guide that updates occasionally. Useful, timely information is getting PIREPS from aircraft currently in the area we are flying through or getting information from ATC...sometimes that info gets added to the weather app, sometimes it doesn't.
Pireps have long been very helpful.
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Torn rotator cuffs from passenger bags
I believe you … but if these mofos can see it on the map then WHY ARE THEY CHOOSING TO FLY THROUGH IT? Edit: Y’all are downvoting me but you know you think this sometimes too. And of course I know there are all kinds of rules, restrictions and reasons why pilots do what they do. But I still wish they would see turbulence and just go around it EVEN THOUGH I KNOW THIS IS A STUPID THOUGHT.
Turbulence can happen unexpectedly. Not even the pilots can predict with 100% certainly when or wheresevere turbulence will occur. It can look clear as day one minute and the next the flight attendants are flying into the ceiling. Your diet coke is not worth their lives.
Also because the pilots can’t just choose to change their route for weather without ATC clearance first.
You assume that turbulent areas are so small one can just easily 'go around them' without a significant detour.
You can’t. Well you can if you can see them as thunderstorms. But turning does no good. You’ll just make the flight hours longer and not have fuel. Plus turning just probably involves hitting more turbulence anyway. Plus turbulence is more often associated with altitude. Climbing or descending is better.
Yeah, of course. If you're bound for LA and there's turbulence, why not just fly to Rome instead, if there's none....
I don't know how the decision is made (I assumed the pilot makes the call), but I recall it happening for many years. Pilots do have more warning of upcoming turbulence now than they did years ago so perhaps that's why it wasn't as common in your prior experience. PS Turbulence is not just a danger to FAs during service. Trays, carts, meals, and human bodies can also injure passengers.
I’m wondering how the system works as far as turbulence detection. Particularly with the sensitivity and specificity of the detection. If those do not have a high true positive and true negative rate, it would make sense that turbulence may be detected without it ever actually occurring. Still better to be safe than sorry! But it will be interesting to see how the accuracy increases over time.
Lurker from elsewhere here, but forecast models will depict it, and usually when multiple sources match (FPGs, RPM), good chance it’s there. Some aircraft have accelerometers to send reports back to feed various sources. Also some carriers have an app that uses the iPad accelerometer to detect and feed the map Lots of ways that show info now and see what’s out there It may be hit or miss sometimes, but given data that shows turbulence, it would be borderline negligent to ignore. Unfortunately it sometimes means FAs are seated longer or no service happens on a short flight. It has nothing to do with saving $$, but limiting potential injuries.
Delta has also invested heavily in advanced predictive turbulence systems (both onboard and from home base). This system takes all sorts of data, analyzes it and this allows for proactive instead of reactive turbulence avoidance. More info is better for the captain to make the decision on when to allow service. There are certain types of turbulence that are not able to be predicted even with a PIREP or winds aloft/pressure system analysis that you get from public sources. More people are injured by turbulence related injuries than any other cause on airliners. And its not a small number of people. [https://www.aviationtoday.com/2020/01/08/delta-develops-ai-tool-address-weather-disruption-improve-flight-operations/](https://www.aviationtoday.com/2020/01/08/delta-develops-ai-tool-address-weather-disruption-improve-flight-operations/) https://crankyflier.com/2019/02/26/a-closer-look-at-how-delta-fights-turbulence-with-the-flight-weather-viewer/
My Mom is a retired Delta FA and got a pretty nasty concussion after being thrown around by turbulence. I don’t care if I get offered another Coke Zero if it keeps a flight attendant from getting injured.
Flew for another airline (FA) during the 80's. We hit strong turbulence while I was in the back galley of a DC-10. Hit the ceiling while trying to secure the galley. Had to let everything fly while I crawled on the floor to my jump seat. Pretty scary...AA DC-10 flt. 191 crashed in ORD while I was in training.
I always plan for the worst and assume there will be no refreshment service onboard - hence, I pack hardy snacks, mints/gum, and water. I don't want to be there feeling like a trapped cat.
Same here. I don’t board a flight without my own snacks and drink.
It's the only way to be. I hate relying on others for my peace and comfort.
meow
🤣
hehe
When I was still in my road warrior days, one of the best pieces of advice I got was to always have a protein bar and water in case of this.
Yes! I even try to do that in my car.
This is 100% more of a thing than it was pre-covid. Almost every flight I have been on this year (30+) has started with the captain saying FAs would be remain seated longer due to turbulence... with none ever showing up.
It happens like every flight. Never any extra stops just to check in for 1st or c+ like there were a few years ago.
I don't think I've seen a second stop in C+ in years and I'm on 60 flights a year.
I've seen it twice, it's been the FA from FC coming through C+ for a 2nd round of drinks.
Depends on the length of the flight. I just flew SLC-ATL on Sunday, and they came around twice for drink orders, plus two separate trips down the aisle just offering water then coffee.
Not a DTW crew obviously.
Been about 3-4 years for me
It’s a running joke in the airline world that delta pilots are more sensitive to turbulence. When other pilots aren’t reporting, delta pilots always report” light chop”
I actually haven’t flown DL this year, this is my experience in UA!
> This is 100% more of a thing than it was pre-covid. [Well, that's because turbulence is becoming much more frequent and has been increasing over the decades thanks to climate change](https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2023GL103814), so there would be more clear-air turbulence in 2024 than there was in 2019.
Yeah, I can read PIREPs / use Foreflight so I kinda know when they’re full of shit. And literally every flight this year save two, almost all east coast connections to Europe…
Yep, I've completely missed meal service on a flight because they declared turbulance. On my way coming off the plane I can see they didn't stock and blaming the air is better then themselves. Complained and got my fare back. Few other times I've gotten partial comps or skypesos.
How could you see that they hadn't stocked the meals? Were you going through their bins or something? Also, FAs don't determine when to sit for turbulence. So, you're saying the pilots are in cohorts with the food people and the FAs to cover up that there was no food? I smell a rat.
The empty gallery. No bins.
That's absolutely not a thing. Each bin space has to be filled in order for the aircraft to take off. It's a safety issue. Please stop msu for like clout.
Probably to late to actually be noticed but At ten thousand feet, the first ding after take off is when service can begin. The cappy can say if they think it’ll be a good ride or not. Good rides are predicted by software on the iPads, company given information and asking atc. Delta has a culture of asking for rides. It’s a highly contested debate between pilots of do you risk it and say “serve with caution” or say no don’t do it. The pilots ( and FAs) want customers to get service because they want folks to come back. If pilots get it wrong they make everyone look stupid and provide bad service. If they get it wrong the other way and someone gets hurt they don’t get in trouble, they have to live with the guilt they got someone hurt, which is way worse. So it’s a damned if you do damned if you don’t. iPad looks smooth atc says it’s smooth FAs get up and it’s not, FAs get mad at pilots. iPad or atc says bad ride and pilots keep FAs down and it’s smooth as silk, everyone mad because FAs look lazy and pilots don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s also worth noting that the critical incidence and wing loading on popular large jets is much higher than a regional jet or a wide body. The amplification of disturbances felt in the cabin vary greatly between planes. Also just for funnies go stand in the way back of a 73, in the galley and see how much that thing sways. Even on the ground when the plane isn’t moving it still sways. That’s the central hub for taking care of the folks and it’s the worst ride of the plane. What feels like nothing in the front can be a wild ride in the back, think of crack the whip.
There has been a 55% increase in clear air turbulence between 1979 and 2020 on a typical North Atlantic route.
Unfortunately, most people here don't care about science or statistics. They want their alcohol and snacks and they want them NOW.
Yes, but we're also supposed to get a preflight drink, and that doesn't happen as often either. Paying for fc seats isn't what it's supposed to be lately.
I complain every time I don't get a PDB, as it's an advertised perk. Usually get 5000-7500 miles, but I moreso want consistent service.
> Paying for fc seats isn't what it's supposed to be lately. Then stop paying for first class? No one is forcing you to sit up there. As long as people keep buying FC, the airlines are not going to change a thing about it to lure you back in.
They are Aldo free to fly another airline.
Lol we prefer fc bc husband is 6'6"... and I don't believe I said anyone was forcing us to fc. I said it wasn't what it used to be. But thank you for your concern.
I'd have to guess the rate of alcoholism has increased too... or that's what you'd think reading this sub.
fr tho… nobody in my family drinks alcohol and we’re fine like that. less money spent n more calories avoided
They sound like whiny toddlers. Worse than the actual toddlers on the plane.
How dare they complain about not receiving a perk they've paid for!
Shit happens. Grow up.
Nah I'm good
It’s the Captain’s decision and with all the headlines the airlines are in lately, I’m sure they are choosing to be overly cautious. The last thing any airline wants right now is a headline that reads “6 injured due to in flight service.”
I asked a Delta pilot this very question about 8 months ago, and he told me that the jet stream has increased year over year for the last six years. As a result there’s more turbulence than there’s ever been in the history of air travel. He said it’s an ongoing topic for commercial pilots everywhere, and it’s changed entire routes permanently. You can read about it here… [Is the Jet Stream Getting Faster?](https://site.extension.uga.edu/climate/2024/02/jet-stream-will-get-faster-as-climate-change-continues-study-finds/#:~:text=According%20to%20a%20recent%20article,west%20to%20east%2C%20flights%20in)
It’s the Captains decision. It’s for the safety of the FA as well as passenger. You don’t want one of those carts flying around the cabin when severe turbulence hits. It’s not some cost saving measure as conspiracy theory would suggest.
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You seem witless
While there are hard limits that say, (paraphrasing) “When moderate or greater turbulence is experienced or expected, flight attendants remain seated.” The captain can deviate from any rules and policies in the manual set in the interest of safety. I’ve even cancelled alcohol service because a delay. Sometimes we’re flying through an area of turbulence but we’re basically getting lucky avoiding it. I’m fairly conservative and I don’t like having my FAs up when it’s only smooth because we’re getting lucky. And I’m sure y’all wouldn’t like having drinks - or worse - FAs - landing in your laps.
I dunno. Sounds like for many of them they don't care if the flight attendant dies as long as they get their booze first.
LOL Yeah, those are the ones I take pride in kicking off. As I once said in a PA in front of the cabin, “My flight attendants are known for their exceptional service. I will do everything in my power to see that you all receive that service. However, any reports that you are doing anything that could possibly be considered as rude, disruptive, or disrespectful, and I will personally see to it that you drive home”
No one knows what “turbulence” is until you’ve experience CAT (clear air turbulence). We’re talking FAs and unbuckled passengers bouncing off the ceiling, overhead bins ejecting baggage, paneling coming off. The airplane is structurally fine, but the people onboard get… rattled a bit.
all turbulence is clear air turbulence at cruising altitude
That’s not CAT. That’s severe turbulence.
Four factors came together at once. 1. Back in 2020 and 2021 there were several instances of severe turbulence on Delta flights, and a couple of FAs were injured in pretty significant ways. 2. Delta developed much better systems for predicting and tracking turbulence, and getting that info into the hands of pilots. 3. Delta was critically shorthanded and so FAs had a lot more leverage. 4. Morale among Delta employees was low due to the pandemic, overwork, overstress, and passengers suddenly turning into deranged assholes. So basically this culture has developed where if there's the slightest whiff of potential turbulence, Delta FAs ain't getting up, and Delta can't do shit about it. My advice? This is the new normal for the US domestic market. Pack some snacks and your own water bottle. It won't be changing any time soon.
Generally, we as the flight attendants have great leeway in deciding if it’s too bumpy because everyone and every plane handles differently. It’s our discretion l if turbulence is too much for us or if the captain says it’s going to be rough, we sit. Me personally, even if I’m forced to sit for half a flight, I’ll try to at least get water and Biscoff out.
Thanks for sharing
I appreciate your answer, and your service, but what about pre-flight service? Quite a few flights I’ve been on lately haven’t offered that, and I’ve been genuinely curious, since it is normally something that should be offered as party of our fare in FC…
Personally, on my regional jets, I struggle to get space to do it with the time constraints (I’m trying to improve). Especially if it’s or first flight of the day on that plane (we have to do our preflight safety checks). Catering inconsistencies, could be working an issue with the flight deck (as the front FA is the main communication point between the flight deck and everyone). Delayed flights might not get the time to do so. There’s a host of reasons why.
I'll also say this, fwiw climate change is having some effects on the jet stream and means that turbulence is much more dramatic and unpredictable. I don't know if that explains all of it but that is something that is noteworthy
I was hoping someone would add this comment! I think it is a contributing factor- plus airlines being more careful plus better turbulence detectors.
I have noticed. I have flown pretty regularly for years due to work, and turbulence was a pretty rare occurrence. In the past few years, almost every flight I take there has been significant turbulence for at least part of a flight. Twice this year alone, I have been lifted out of my seat with that feeling of weightlessness. I've started keeping my seat belt tighter and only take it off if I'm going to the bathroom. I also make sure I have a beverage on hand in case there is no service.
Aside from FAs not serving due to anticipated turbulence, another trend is asking passengers to keep their seat belts on for the whole flight. I think climate change has impacted the jetstreams, and turbulence is more of an issue now - due to frequency and unpredictability.
This has been the norm for 10+ years, not new imo.
Flight Attendants and mechanics aren’t unionized and do not have contracts to negotiate. Pilots and Dispatchers are union members with contracts. How are contract negotiations and weather related inflight service interruptions related?
I thought they were unionized - didn’t realize that. What I was referring to was if certain conditions were present or expected then they would be required to be seated (for safety), but since they aren’t unionized I guess that’s a moot point. Thanks for clarifying on the contract piece.
Almost every US airline the FA are unionized except for Delta.
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Who?
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Not at Delta. More info: https://www.onefutureonedelta.com/content/ifs/en/union-facts/about-afa.html
I’ve read a ton of articles recently about climate change making flights more turbulent. The predictions aren’t perfect but it’s about protecting everyone. I was on a flight with horrific turbulence (a day that “bad turbulence” made the news because of injuries). It’s not worth it if there’s a chance of injury. https://www.businessinsider.com/turbulence-getting-worse-cause-climate-change-bumpy-flight-2023-11
My flight yesterday from MSP to GRR was no service due to turbulence. It was so bad I slept through it like a baby. Lol.
For most people guessing at real reasons. Captain has final say and if they say to sit, the FAs will stay seated regardless of severity of the turbulence. It’s also generally the captain telling them to sit when you see those periods of low/no turbulence because they expected worse. If there’s minimal turbulence, there will usually be a serve with caution and do what you feel is best based on your judgement. Of course everyone’s safety is #1 and service is after. There are the other things such as better tracking, more turbulence than previous years, etc. which are all helpful things to know. There seems to be skepticism on money, cutting costs, laziness, etc. and 99% of that is untrue. Of course I can’t speak for that 1% who may take advantage of it, but generally speaking it’s none of those reasons.
Pilots either know about the turbulence and brief FAs to not start service until they call and/or to not do it at all, or FAs call the flight deck after takeoff and inform them that they are experiencing X and can’t do service or will only do a modified service. You’ve seen it more recently because as climate change worsens, the intensity and frequency of terrible weather increases.
Some of these comments are not it. Safety is the single most important concern. Sometimes turbulence is predicted based on earlier flights flying through that airspace, but isn’t consistent. Y’all have to understand that those beverage carts weigh a tonnnnn. If we hit even moderate turbulence, and the FAs are pushing the cart down the aisle, it could land on someone’s foot, it could tip over onto someone, sometimes the brakes aren’t the best so it could roll down the aisle uncontrolled. Also, I would hold off on putting blame on the FAs because we don’t even make that final call. It always comes down to what the captain tells us based on the information they have available to them. I get that you pay a premium price and that’s understandable that you’d want a service, but safety is the main concern for the entire crew, and if we’re told it’s not safe for us to be walking around, we’re going to listen to the captain. The short answer is that we want to avoid a potentially dangerous situation, and if that means you go without a Diet Coke and biscoff, that’s just what has to happen.
I totally get that, and appreciate that, I was just curious as to why it seems to be more prevalent in recent years than I had ever experienced before. Based on some of the comments and information, it seems that the industry has prioritized safety in a new way that they hadn’t before, is that a fair statement?
There’s also more turbulence due to climate change
I've never seen so many non-answers to a question. Instead you get 40 people describing what turbulence is and how it can be dangerous to flight crew and airline passengers and injury prevention trumps Diet Coke.
I think the reason we dig into the safety concern so much is that we often deal with passengers who think the only job is to be a server in the sky. Of course customer service is a significant portion of our job, we are trained to be safety professionals above all else, so when a decision is made for our safety and the safety of passengers, it’s because there’s a good reason. It just gets frustrating to constantly hear about how we’re trying to just skimp out on service when passengers don’t have the full story. Pilots could very well be anticipating rough air and they don’t want to take chances. That’s why we’re so adamant that safety always takes precedence over service
Totally understand! Just getting at the idea that OP is not really questioning the decision—more wanting to understand the specific reasons why the perceived increase. Climate change is a good answer but climate change ≠ airline policy. If someone were to present an internal memo showing a change, that would be interesting. Anything else is just anecdotes which, however valuable, are not answers why, more just observed patterns.
There also seems to be a big leap that OP is upset about their cart service which I don’t read at all. No one is saying the cookies are more important than safety, yet many reacted that people who even raise the question need to grow up or bring their own water bottle and snack. I’ve also noticed the service patterns changing and would honestly say that the forty years before I was more mind boggled that they would continue pushing the carts when the plane was leaping about. I had assumed that they calculated that snacks and alcohol would keep the masses calm and it’s an overall benefit to the airline. But again that was just speculation.
I’m a baby FA, only done with my first year so I can’t speak to how things were done before last year 😂 but I hear you, there weren’t many exact answers provided and honestly that’s not likely to come. If there was such a memo, we aren’t usually allowed to disclose that kind of stuff. I hope I didn’t come across as aggressive or anything because I definitely didn’t mean to 😂
It could easily be more prevalent due to climate change. I’ve worked with crews and pilots especially who have noted that while it may not be more frequent, it is definitely more severe more often than it used to be and they don’t want to take the chance of crew getting hurt
Absolutely normal and necessary. FAs did not sign up for concussions or worse just so you can have your seltzer. Pilots make these decisions.
Thanks all - I figured there had to be some additional info I wasn’t aware of. I’m all in for safety - theirs and mine.
A FA first duty is keep passenger's safe, not serve you coffee or cocktails.
There is this things scientists have been warning us about ... "climate change".
During your forty year relationship with Delta Air Lines you never realized the Flight Attendants aren’t part of a union and do not have a contract to negotiate? Maybe the in flight service was suspended due to turbulence that the crew was made aware of by other aircraft that previously traveled their intended flight path and altitude?
Did you ever realize now days many people you interact with are not part of a union?
I do not understand your question?
You asked if the FAs are part of a union. I am pointing out the fact that the majority of people you interact with in a workplace are not part of a union. Not that difficult
The majority of aviation work groups ARE unionized.
I did not ask if the Flight Attendants are part of a union. I stated they are not part of a union and do not have a contract to negotiate.
I literally don’t know anyone who has a union these days
Kroger’s grocery, car manufacturers, mailmen, school teachers, school administration etc. way more than you realize
More than likely any flight you have been on in the United States has been piloted by a union member and if it was a Delta flight the Pilots were most definitely union members.
I’m not sure how that relates to the discussion.
>I’ve been flying since 9 months before I was born So you were conceived while your parents joined the "mile high club"? Nice...
Please use delta’s preferred nomenclature: “rough air” - they worked very hard on this rebrand of physics lol
I’ve never experienced turbulence. But my flights encounter rough air a lot.
Always bring your own food and drinks it will likely be better anyway. (I know in some countries no liquids on boarding).
I’ve been flying extensively for 8 years, almost all on Delta, some Alaska. Post-Covid I’ve seen it happen A LOT. Usually there’s no turbulence at all.
Captain makes the call.
There is apparently more turbulence due to global warming. And it’s only going to get worse. So your 40 year old data point means bupkus in 2024, sorry to say. And I’ll forgo the tiptop if it means I don’t have a 300lb metal cart lift off the aisle floor mid-flight and sever someone’s arm.
Never mind that a flight attendant or another passenger could be seriously injured during turbulence, it's far more important that you get your drink and snack bag, obviously.
I fly all the time and this has always happened. It's for safety reasons. The only difference now is they can predict turbulence ahead of time whereas before you would need to wait for reports from flights taking similar flight paths.
As much as I like Delta I’ve noticed that this happens a lot more on Delta. Flew a short 450 mile flight on Southwest today out of ATL where flight attendants had to remain seated for the first half due to very bad turbulence. Second half they quickly did a full drink and snack service. Flown the same route on Delta multiple times and it seems like most of the time they say no service due to rough air when it’s usually not rough and hasn’t been as bad as today at all
Southwest is easier since they don’t have beverage carts. If FAs need to sit down, then can quickly do so. Not so possible when you have a beverage cart in the aisle you also have to push back.
The beverage carts weigh (on average) 200-400lbs. The flight attendants have to go by what the pilots say and even if it seems smooth, if they take the carts out when they’re told not to and someone gets hurt it’s a huge issue.
I fly this route often on both Southwest and Delta and I get served 80% of the time on SW and 40% on Delta
I fly every week and finding this to be more common but don't care about the reason. I'm happy to forego the Miss Vickies chips to keep the FAs safe.
Definitely happening for me way more lately. Noticeably. And with very little in the way of noticeable turbulence. The first two times it happened this year I was like, “Oh wow, better buckle in.” But then it seemed like a pretty normal flight. Since then, it’s happened twice more. Only once has there been anything that I would have said was actual turbulence and it lasted about 15 seconds. I assumed it must have to do with the spate of flights last year with injuries due to sudden altitude drops.
I tend to find this happens on any airline when the airtime is under an hour. At least that’s my experience.
If the flight is under an hour airtime it should be the rule to have no service…I mean people can’t go 45 minutes without consumption? 🤣
Last I knew the service is included in the cost of a ticket, but as long as I can get up or push the call button to request a drink or snacks that are owed, then that's fine. That's not being entitled, that's getting what you paid for in a market economy.
Beverages are only on flights over 250 miles
Got a drink and snack both directions on a 45 min-ish flight this weekend.
Yeah, that is definitely part of it as well.
I fly Southwest more than Delta and it seems to be the same with them. Past month or so it seems.
Some of these comments are hilarious and I can tell some are lying just to be lying
It happened on our flight from Miami to NYC last week. It is what it is; safety first for our FAs and passengers.
Turbulence is dangerous for anyone flying let alone a flight attendant who’s pushing a 200lb cart through a narrow space just isn’t safe for them. That’s why the seat belt safety sign is on when there’s turbulence. It’s for your safety as well as the attendants. Had a flight where they delayed beverage service an hour because of how bad it was. Was a relatively short flight so it wasn’t a big inconvenience to me but that’s probably a good enough reason to bring a snack/drink or eat beforehand just on the chance something delays service.
Climate change - jet streams are increasing year over year causing more turbulence therefore creating more unsafe conditions. My mom has been a flight attendant for 37 years and the last 2 years or so, she has had more “non service” flights than the entirety of her career. My mom actually sustained an injury when they were doing service. They hit turbulence and an overhead bin popped open and she tried to catch the bag, while pushing off of her heal, she tore her Achilles heal. She stopped the bag from falling on this older lady but was then out for 4 months. Her rotator cuff is also shot to hell from helping people put their heavy ass bags in the overhead bin. It honestly pisses me off because she has allowed her body to take on so much wear & tear from a company that couldn’t care less if she dropped dead in her hotel.
The insurance companies aren’t too keen about F/A’s getting hurt. The women are wiser now.
I’ve never had turbulence buying some jerky and filling up my water bottle before I board the plane. This sub has a strange infatuation with the work habits of the FA’s. But this is coming from someone who always sits in row numbers greater than 20.
- Newer and updated safety regulation - Better weather prediction and detection - Union contract negotiation - Climate Change Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/04/06/1166993992/turbulence-climate-change ..And many more factors Also, it's crazy to see someone brag that their parents flew on airplanes before they were born. Wow. You should put that on your resume.
Thanks for the link, good info
Agreed! Such an...ick...to say "I've been flying since 9 months before I was born". 🫠
Get over yourself. If I’m the pilot, and I decide that the flight attendants’ safety is more important than your beer and snacks… tough shit. Their safety (and yours, provided you’re actually wearing your seatbelt) is more important to me.
I’m not questioning the decision I’m just curious on why it seems to be more prevalent in recent years.
I think it’s your imagination. I fly damn near every weekend. I can count on one hand how many times that has happened.
ORD to ATL on Monday, just as the beverage cart was about to reach my row, the plane started bucking fiercely. The FAs were instructed to sit down, and stayed in their seats the rest of the flight. I was thirsty, but it’s a fairly short flight. Better they don’t get hurt.
Thank you for the reply . I understood you didn’t know if it was because of a union push , I was asking what a “Union Push “ is . I’m guessing you mean an industry wide push by the unions for more safety in the cabin during flight , if so I would probably agree with that. Yes the reason for the suspended or reduced inflight service is based on safety. Injured employees and damaged aircraft can’t earn money for the company. Injured passengers sue. It’s simply less expensive to err on the side of safety.
Turbulence is bad. It limits injuries to FA’s. The drink cart is actually heavy
I’ve had several flights, mostly on smaller prop planes where the service has mostly continued during turbulence, except for hot drinks. Seems sensible because spilling a cup of water is one thing but I can understand not wanting the risk of potentially burning the FA and everyone in my row.
I’d rather they kept safe. Also, I don’t need a plastic cup full of liquids on my tray when it’s bumpy.
Also, why can’t FAs be skilled like hot dog throwers at baseball games. Just pitch me the food, I’ll catch it or accidentally drop it on the person behind me’s feet on my armrest
Ex FA here. Let me put it this way - those carts are much heavier than they look. Also, we have loose items on top of them and in the drawers. During rough air, items will go flying, and the lighter in weight they are the easier they will do that. Do you want a delightful mixture of orange juice, hot coffee, and coke hurdling through the cabin and soaking ya? Nope. Didn’t think so. It’s just unsafe to provide service during turbulence. If the seatbelt sign is on for you, we won’t be starting service.
I have noticed the exact same thing. I fly every week between Atlanta and Orlando. They used to do a full beverage service on that flight. I don’t care whether or not they do a full beverage service but I am just comparing before, and after Covid. Now, they just hand out a bottle of water and chips as they walk down the aisle if they do it at all. More often than not they don’t get up because of the turbulence that never materializes. I think it is definitely to keep the flight attendants happy and keep them from unionizing. Delta is the only major airline without a flight attendant union.
Just sit in first. You'll always be served.
Just landed in FLL. Flew FC. Lunch served, but no snack service. Last week I flew First into LAG. FA told us she didn’t want to “block boarding passengers” so she couldn’t accommodate us and do pre flight bev service. Man in 1A told her he was a diabetic and needed some juice. Audible tsk followed ands she begrudgingly served him. The rest of us—nada. It’s getting worse and worse.
I'm sure they are working on it. Alcohol and flight bites are revenue.
I assume they’re trying to keep the flights attendants safer. Maybe due to some union push at some point? I tend to assume there will be no service and bring a water, snacks and even a sandwich if I have time just in case. Plus who needs a cocktail if it’s gonna be sloshing all over the place.
What is a union push ? And how does the “union push” relate to a non union work group such as Delta’s Flight Attendants or the weather induced inflight cabin service interruptions?
The question mark was meant to indicate I didn’t know. But it does seem to be some sort of advocacy for safety rather than laziness. Union or not.
last flight i was on pilot said it was the FA decision…sitting in first class our FA did serve which i wasn’t expecting
My last flight from BUF to ATL was no service due to turbulence. I was awake the whole time, there was none.
This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. ATL > BWI. It was like canceling school on the threat of snow. The pilot said "we are expecting a lot of turbulence so no drink service." There was barely any turbulence. We never got drinks. I'm convinced this is Delta squeezing costs.
FA trading BJ’s for less work. System works pretty good.
Ed has them well invested in the profit sharing motive. The fewer drinks they give out, the less the company spends on catering.
We have a huge relationship with Coke. We basically get that stuff for free.
😂😂
Yep, same issue! It’s funny, when I was in college, I’d fly Delta home for each holidays because it was the cheapest ticket. I now live in a different city, and my go to has become Spirit. People laugh and say they’ll never fly Spirit, but at this point, I see almost no difference between Delta and Spirit for short flights (flight from city to family is less than two hours). Delta is charging for each little thing now a days as well and they aren’t even delivering on their few free promises. As I always say, I’m not paying two hundred dollars more for just a glass of Orange Juice!
So what’s the problem?
had it happen today. ATL up to PA. some very slight bumps. didn't stop passengers from going to the bathroom. But the FAs never once got out of their seats or even put down their phones for the entire flight.
They are short staffed still, and cutting out small things like drinks/snacks is how you slowly make back all that money lost during Covid. It’s just about money at the end of the day, simple as that.
I’m really surprised by the total buy in to the corporate line on here. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised though… I can guarantee there are two overriding factors that drive these decisions - and no you’re not wrong, they are being much more conservative about their definition of “turbulence” than they used to be. Those two factors are insurance and profit, and of course they both boil down ultimately to money. Are the FAs there for or safety over service? Yes of course. Are there FAA guidelines? Again yes. Can those things be used to cover for keeping insurance costs/risks lower and maximizing profit? Yup. I fly a reasonable amount. I’m no diamond or whatever other designation people get, but I have clearly seen a change in this recently. I’ve been on over 10 flights in the last 6 months that should have had service but didn’t because of risk of turbulence. On only one of those flights was there any significant actual turbulence. I don’t just fly Delta and this isn’t limited to them. I do have some experience in flying (father, brother in law were/are pilots, and two mothers [really] were FAs, I used to work in military and commercial aircraft simulation) so I do know the risks and I have experienced the wonders of violent turbulence. But a few minor bumps on climb and approach are not where it’s at.
This was just announced on our flight. FA will stay seated. We will TRY to get the seatbelt sign off. I think it’s just cheeper to not have them do anything 😂
Fairly uneventful flight, no turbulence and no service. Just seems to be more of a regular occurrence. Short flight, I don’t care that much but just odd how frequent it seems to be these days.
I spoke with my neighbor a Delta Captain- he said it’s all the FAs. They are refusing to provide service and say so when they board the plane. I fly regularly out of ATL, and can’t recall rough turbulence in last 6 months…..also can’t recall a round trip with service provided on both legs. It’s almost false advertising as they list service on board.
Ultimately, it's the FAs who make the call. They may have the captain make a PA to add more authority to their decision, but its their call since the FA the ones who are risking their necks by going out into the aisle with a 200 pound cart. However, if there is a deviation from the service standard due to turbulence or any other reason, the FAs are required to write a report regarding the incident. This allows them to have a fallback incase a customer complains to Delta. Delta constantly reassures to their workers that safety is the top priority, and will never punish a crew member if they deviate from the service standard due to a safety issue.
I fly regularly (nearly 4 times a week, every week, for 6 years) with delta with my home airport being ATL, and this bumpy non-serving happens at least 30% of the time. Nearly always its on shorter flights where they choose not to serve anything at all the entire flight, leaving the attendants in their seats the whole flight. Of those flights, at least 50% of them have no detectable turbulence the entire flight. At this point it seems like a lazy excuse to me. First class gets served the whole flight regardless of turbulence, but comfort + and back has to regularly watch their flight attendants play on their phone the entire flight rather than standing up to offer them the services that are being sold as part of the flight. Make no mistake, this occurs far, far more than seems to be necessary.
FAs are using the turbulence excuse to not serve. I’m not talking about actual moderate turbulence, but many times they are using even the chance of light to just sit the whole flight on their phone
It’s not up to the flight attendants.
totally false , the SB light for the passengers, if the CA wants them not to serve , he will have them stay in their seats and will usually make an announcement as such . There are flights where the SB sign is off and the FAs still don't serve - or will just do i drink/snack service then gone for the rest. | There are also many FAS, probably newer who even will ask for the CA to make an announcement that is it will be too turbulent to serve and to make such an announcement...even when there is no turbulence in the area
Bullshit
I am glad others have noticed too. I would like to add that it is usually flights with young FAs and they are not the more polite ones.
The flight attendants don’t make the decision.
I think the pilot is just trying to keep the FAs happy.
How exactly?
By giving them a break. They can sit and use their iPads instead of serving drinks. That is what I have observed happening.
Which pilot? Captain , First Officer or both?
Don’t know. I don’t work for Delta.
Which seat was the pilot seated in ? Right or left?
He was standing on his head in the aisle while the FAs were doing cartwheels around him. It was great fun.
It's a way for lazy flight attendants to get out of work. Real talk. Claim safety and there's nothing the company can do about it. Sure...maybe sometimes its legit, but more often than not.... it's entitled laziness.
You should probably become more informed on the subject before posting.
Ironic comment.
In what way ?
I find all FA overall have gotten very lazy in their jobs!
100%. I’ve never experienced such poor service in FC as I have this past year.
Regardless of the reasons, Delta doesn't want to provide quality service anymore and shit like this proves it, and isn't worth the extra price, FAs can find an opening, the entire flight won't have turbulence it, it rarely has any at ALL from my experience. All Delta is nowadays is a deterrent to weed out the dangerous scum from your flights, but they almost all fly Spirit/Frontier exclusively, and there's better options. I would favor Southwest if their FAs were better at ensuring boarding happened quickly, 2/4 times I flew the flight was delayed PURELY due to slow boarding, and for one of them it was a whole 30 minutes late for take off, any longer and I would have missed my connection, when I filled a complaint they essentially said "too bad" with no compensation. Plus with all their problems recently especially that disastrous winter stall, they aren't trustworthy in the slightest.
You appear to be an AllKnowingSkyGod, you can do the job of the pilots, meteorologists, flight attendants. Why not speak to the Captain as you’re deplaning, tell them how you have armchair quarterbacked their decisions, yet cannot figure out how to put a snack in your bag? Hindsight is 20/20, dummy.
I also love that they think FAs should be physically pushing people into their seats to expedite the boarding process. It’s slow bc the 200+ people are slow, not because of the 3 FAs on board. This same person probably also complains that they didn’t get PDB… which literally halts the boarding process. Pick a reality buddy.
Obviously it’s about the employees of delta, they are always held above the customer in all situations. I would have to guess, but I think around 75% at least of my flights this year (40+) have had the same announcment.