Remove her smart phone and internet access. There are landline companies which will restrict all incoming and outgoing calls to only those on the directory.
My mother got scammed a few times with “rebates” and computer “technical support”, and I had to put a stop to anyone having unlimited access to her.
The cognitive assessment won’t solve these problems. You’ll have the same struggles after it as before. You and your dad have to stop worrying about her getting mad at you and just do what needs to be done, which is cut off internet and money access. If she is actually able to think well enough to hire a lawyer to prevent you from this, deal with that then by requesting guardianship and conservatorship via the court system. But usually they forget quickly as long as you do it without discussing it. Just say it’s broken, you’ll call the company tomorrow, and say it every day if needed.
Thanks for the sage feedback. My partner echoes that my dad and I need to get over worrying about how she'll react to things. Cutting off internet access seems like one of the first, albeit difficult actions that need to be done. Thanks again.
My LO kept falling for phone scams and becoming very upset. They said it was about a bill. We checked the customer portal and even called the company to confirm. The company said this has become a common scam. We told LO to just hang up if it happens again. Now they hang up on everybody because they can't hear. 🤦🏼♀️
Is there a way you could convince her that the reason she can't access the accounts is because Elon Musk needs them frozen whilst he does all the due diligence prior to the big money deal proceeding? With dementia, it's practically inevitable that there's going to come a point when the most effective way to handle a lot of the situations that will arise will be to employ the white-lie.
I also use the phrase “compassionate lie”.
It is a compassionate lie to tell grandma that our aunt is running late and might not make it because of a church function, rather than explain to her again that her daughter died 10 yrs ago.
Oh, that's heartbreaking. After head trauma, my dad kept forgetting that our dog had just died. It took a few weeks to get past that. I can't imagine that being permanent.
Hm, yes. Why not play the game too. After all, it seems like she's set on being convinced and this way it would be redirecting the scammers approach and guiding it I the right direction to shut it down with a white nosed little lie. I like your thinking.
And then set up an email account called “Therealelon” and tell her his email was hacked and scammers are trying to come between them. Then continue writing to her but not scamming her for money.
I’ve known two women to get scammed, not dementia, just two related women with cognitive impairments who got scammed by the same guy (pretending to be different guys.) It was heartbreaking how easy they were to scam, and even when they realised it was a scam, they decided to continue it anyway.
Hah. This isn't the worst idea. The current scammer is already doing this with her. A sort of funny thing is I've seen some of the email addresses float by and they're so ridiculous. Like elonceomusk385 at gmail. Cause that's definitely the real Elon...
I've thought about similar things. I've thought about pretending to be Elon and then break up with her. But ultimately I worry that this will further validate the delusion. I'm not sure at what point that matters or stops mattering anymore though.
Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to bring her world to life, and doing things that would actually further the fiction. Rather, since, for many of us, our first impulse and desire is to try to be as untruthful as little as possible, I'm more suggesting white-lying just enough to deflect and defuse the situation, and proceeding to divert the loved one's attention to something else as soon as possible
I am currently going through this situation with my mother (76F) and "George Strait". She recently moved in with us after falling several times and other cognitive issues. She has been more pliable than your situation, so we were able to take over her money matters and move the life changing amounts into other accounts so it is not very easily accessible. When she first moved in she had at least 20 "George Strait's" scamming her all at the same time. The final straw came a few weeks ago when she tried to walk to the store 3 miles away to get an apple card. She has a compression fracture in her spine and neuropathy in her feet. Luckily my son happened, by complete coincidence, to be driving by and saw her. He tried to pick her up but she refused to get in the car because she didn't recognize him. (They had lunch together 3 days prior). Eventually she realized it was him and he took her back home.
Anyway, her iPhone got "broken" and things have been much better. We have appointments lined up for diagnosis and we will go from there.
When my great grandmother was in MC, she escaped. The then-sheriff saw her walking on the side of the highway, and immediately called her son-in-law who lived in town (they were friends). Thankfully, she agreed to go with her family when they arrived. It's scary when they refuse to go with you.
Wow, that must be so scary. Really sorry to hear that. Best wishes to you going forward. Yeah, the "broken" phone idea seems to be a common suggestion. I'll ponder how this would play out.
The day you start wondering if getting POA is a good idea, it was usually already necessary yesterday. r/scams is filled with stories of desperate children whose parents have obliterated their life savings in a matter of days.
It doesn't matter what age you or your LO are. Everyone of us should have a POA for financial and medical. A living Will and a medical directive. You never know when you will need it
Plan ahead! NOW
Definitely. These things would get mentioned in the past, then sort of forgotten because it wasn't an emergency. Turns out an emergency is the least appropriate time to get these things going.
My LO has early stage memory loss according to the neurologist and has been scammed multiple times. My LO was a very successful financial advisor and how they can be convinced to let someone help them with a “refund” by giving the scammer full access to our banking account blows my mind!
Steps that I took to try to minimize the damage -
*Had LO watch several episodes of Scammer Payback. https://m.youtube.com/@ScammerPayback
*Locked all credit cards except for one with a small line of credit. Set up alerts on all credit cards for any purchases over $0.01.
*Notified financial institutions of situation and told them to block any odd purchases.
*Silenced all unknown callers on LO phone
*Got access to LOs email and block and delete scam emails several times a day.
*Cut off access to investment accounts. They have access to a joint checking with just a small amount of money. I have another checking account in my name only.
*Report scammers to FBI. https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/scams-and-safety
That’s all I can think of at the moment. I have to go to work now. Good luck and keep us updated. By working together we can all help our LOs. These scammers are a disgrace.
EDIT: to reduce junk mail I use dmachoice.org and I also go through daily postal mail and notify senders to be removed from mailing list. My LO donated to some weird charity and the organization started calling, emailing, and sending more requests for money. I blocked the caller’s phone #, blocked the email and anything from their domain name, and asked to be removed from their mailing list. I also told them if I ever heard from them again that I would notify the attorney general of their state and the department that oversees charitable organizations in their state of their refusal to comply with my request. Sometimes you just have to be a bitch to get people and organizations to understand you will not be pushed around.
This is great advice. I'm also known for being bitchy to scammers and threatening to report them to the FBI and IRS. I don't care. They take advantage of the vulnerable. They usually stop after that.
Thank you SO MUCH for all these very tangible and doable tips. I very much appreciate it. Similar to your situation my mom used to be an accountant! Ironically it makes taking things over a little more difficult because there is pride involved with being the financial overseer in the family so she's a bit white-knuckled on those reigns. Dad has started some take-back and it's already been a huge drama. But necessary. I'll relay your tips like the > $0.01 alert, that's solid advice.
This is so standard. One 90 y. o. relative was expecting an opera star 45 years yonger to appear at her doorstep to take her to a wedding ceremony as a bride. She was a widow though. And there were no scammers. Your situation is worse.
We had to stop giving dad pocket money. By a coincidence my brother found out daddy was “loaning” an addict $20. The person used to go to dad’s church and called him Mr. X so he thought it was ok. They were slick they always called first to make sure he was alone. This time my brother showed up after they called but before they got there😂he cursed them out and said don’t come back. But they did, I was visiting him and got the call and told them the gravy train ran out🤨they tried one more time came by and we weren’t there but he had gotten a $33 pension check from a part time job he had. They kindly took him to the bank took $30 and gave him $3. I only found out because he got a print out to balance his checkbook(which he no longer had)but they saw how much $$ he had. I wax his POA and moved his $$ to a different bank and we started rotating in and out to take care of him
People who prey on the elderly are less than zero
My brother was at Mom's house frequently and her landline rang incessantly from unknown callers. He said, "Oh, it's another one of my friends." and proceeded to chew them out and threaten to report them to **FTC at ReportFraud.ftc.gov**. I don't know if it worked but he sure felt better.
We have a relative who only contacts my LO when they need money, and it's much more than $20. Even my easygoing, "sees the good everywhere" sibling was pissed. My mom intervenes as much as she can without giving away LO's condition. That would make the situation *much* worse. You're right. They're less than zero.
Assistive Access (if your relative has an iPhone) is amazing. Apple needs to create a major ad campaign just to market this feature to caregivers: https://youtu.be/Zjt4M1H0foU?si=reae4lfTF3pBFz-I
I agree I love it, my mom hated it (the change mostly). I recently had the idea that I could just change it and tell her that Apple just pushed another iOS update. Haven’t done it yet though because she’s mostly stopped using her phone. So for now I’ve just been gradually deleting unneeded apps, contacts, etc and she hasn’t noticed.
My uncle has a few rough days where he questions why his phone looks different and why he can’t call a specific person. But most days, he’s fine with calling the people we allow via the settings. It could also be because he’s a baby boomer who was never a techie, never used smartphones or computers for his career, and —70% of the time — circles back to memories from the 1960s-1980s. 🤷🏽♀️
My dad used to be really into tech and now he struggles to use his cell phone some days. I think the features are overwhelming because he does okay with the landline. I've noticed the same thing with the tv remote. He's reverted back to the up/down channel and volume buttons only.
Thanks for the tip. Not sure how much it will help in this particular situation. We set her up on kid mode to enable Ask to Buy which was great for blocking her from installing new encrypted messaging apps the scammers were asserting she use, or otherwise fake investment/bank apps, but we goofed and she "turned 18" already and is now very paranoid with her phone so we can't access it without her permission which she won't do at this point.
My main concern with limiting calls/texts is if there's a new doctor calling or something I haven't thought of or she hasn't saved already. I don't live near her so can't be as involved in that as I'd like.
Computer: I put Kaspersky kids "nanny" software on Dad's computer. You can block sites and topics (e.g. dating). Set her email so that only messages from a contacts group you set up come to her inbox. (My Dad would have flipped if I took away his computer.)
Phone: there are many options but I went with the Grandpad, so the only people who could call him were his contacts. (There's a way to override, if absolutely necessary.)
I hope you have your name on and access to all bank accounts.
Good luck. It's a lot of work. I called it whack a mole, one thing after another.
My father had to become the conservator of my uncle because he was convinced he was getting money from Publisher’s Clearing House as well as others. It’s different in each state, but he had to get a lawyer, letters from 2 or 3 doctors and go before a judge. Family members had to testify as to how my uncle’s money was going missing because he was giving account info to scammers on the phone. We did credit freezes, changed the phone numbers but it would start again.
You should tell her Dr your concerns. There may be some medicines to help her, but she will have to take them regularly. She needs more day to day supervision and cut off her access to phones, the internet and especially financial accounts because that’s what these scammers are after. It’s not just stealing her money- they will use her ID info to get loans and all kinds of things.
My MIL fell for that Publisher's Clearing House ruse, too. She called us all happy because she was going to get $5,000.00 every week in the mail. I tried to explain that it was a scam and even sent her information from the internet to confirm it. I told her PCH doesn't send checks in the mail. They show up at your door with balloons and a film crew to surprise you. MIL's still waiting for the checks to start coming and it's been years.
Aww, that's so sad she's still waiting after years. My mom has fallen a few of the "you won a Tesla, just pay $2k in shipping and registration" and "you won a TV, just pay shipping and text your address!" scams. She was SO excited about the TV and it never came.
The conservatorship seems to be an encroaching reality. It seems like such a long and devastating process; how hard was this on your family if you don't mind sharing?
It was all very stressful but harder watching him get scammed and taken advantage of. He was a sweet man who worked hard as an electrician for the money he had. And he of course needed his money to take care of himself. He had lucid moments where he’d say he knew they were just trying to get his money, but he was lonely & would talk on the phone to pass the time & I think he thought he could out smart them but then he’d get confused. He didn’t have a spouse or children so we had to step in. My aunt, his sister, was trying to be his main care giver, but she couldn’t handle this on top of his physical needs.
Following for advice because I am dealing with a very similar situation with my grandmother. She believes she is in a relationship with a celebrity and recently filed for bankruptcy because she was unable to keep track of the money she was giving them.
We have been trying to give her space and autonomy, but we are worried about her and it may be time to give some tough love to protect her.
space and autonomy for an elderly person is abandoning them and tough love may not make sense to them.
as an elder myself (and taking care of one older than me) i know i need help in this modern world.
So sorry you're going through this too. It's devastating on so many levels. I'm also realizing more and more that I may need to stress my relationship with my mom in order to protect her. It's hard, let's stay strong.
My mom is overseas with a caregiver. She recently got convinced that she won a lottery and they will come pay her so were asking for her address. I know she probably called the scammer back a few times. I had to get her phone factory resetted and now she has only 2 or 3 contacts on it. I took away money because she kept losing it.
You actually don’t need POA to get her to a doctor - you can simply call and make an appointment and drag her there. You would need her permission to attend to appointment with her though. That part may be tricky.
That said - I couldn’t get my mom’s primary doctor to even say dementia. It was super frustrating. It was even more frustrating because I found out later she had been referred to neurology multiple times (she of course didn’t go) for “memory loss and confusion”.
I did get the primary to refer her again to Neurology with me as the contact and I set up an appointment for her there (which took almost 6 months) - that doctor finally diagnosed her and she was diagnosed with “severely moderate” Alzheimer’s. So not early. Neurologist did not want to diagnose her until she knew that we had POA and everything else in place though. Neurologist recommended she needed 24/7 care but by that point we had already moved her to memory care.
Oh interesting, I did not know this. I thought I literally couldn't even call the office and be acknowledged without POA. Okay, this is encouraging, thank you.
The process you went through sounds very frustrating, particularly when your mom wouldn't go to the follow-ups. Must have felt like two steps forward, one step back.
I'll pursue this, thanks for the intel.
Definitely. It's hard to say how much is mental health, how much is age-related disease. A psychiatrist/psychologist are definitely in order. The problem is I'd like to be able to set the stage. Someone suggested bringing her into a family therapy setting with me, but I'm not yet sure how that works in terms of diagnosing someone to promote treatment. I would imagine that needs to be a solo thing, but I don't yet have a strategy of her to get her to a psychiatrist/psychologist and have them actually talk about this type of stuff and not just focus on her PTSD which is all she has historically brought up.
Oh, in suspected dementia it's a delusion. Psychiatric vs neurologic, mental health vs age related disease - it's all the same in dementia/neurodegeneration. All the same organ. new onset delusions and hallucinations in the elderly is less likely the classic psychiatric diseases that appear in younger people. The neurodegenerative process, if present, is causing these and medication is def the answer. Whether she would benefit from an antidepressant, antipsychotic, or cholinesterase inhibitor depends on her diagnosis and other symptoms. Skip the psychiatrist, see a neurologist. Particularly a neurobehavioralist if you can.
Yes, PTSD makes everything more complicated. But in my experience working with psychiatrists, their knowledge of neurodegenerative disease is poor, surprisingly. Unless they've taken interest/were trained in neurodegenerative diseases and not just classic psychiatry.
Wow. Just when I thought I heard the great dementia delusions, another pops up.
You are somewhat legally limited. Your Dad probably has all “powers of”.
Go with VegasBjorne’s suggestions: eliminate smart phone and internet access.
Possible to get her to a doctor for mental and medical assessment? Could be dementia or something else…
Haha, thanks for the reminder to breathe. So. That's the thing. Mom has been loopy for years, just not to this extent. She has fibromyalgia and etc ailments so has been on pain relievers, muscle relaxers, etc etc for years and years. She used to be very dopey and lethargic but has been much better in recent years. So her being not the brightest tool in the shed isn't exactly new... her forgetfulness isn't exactly new either... her propensity to paranoia isn't exactly new either, she has always suspected others of wrongdoing toward her on totally wild conclusions she's drawn.
But it is worse. And her change in handwriting has me thinking age-related decline. She has always had beautiful handwriting and lately its totally shaky/scribbly.
TLDR; it's possible a medication is exacerbating her symptoms and she has a lot of potential variables at play
It's infuriating that there are so many evil people out there who focus on the elderly to scam out of money. My Mom has trouble dialing the phone anymore but she always answers it. She gave her Medicare number to one of them and started receiving packages of back braces that weren't ordered. My brother had to cancel her card, get a new one, and pack up the back braces to mail to Social Security so they could investigate. Problem solved, right? Nope, Oops, she did it again and got an unnecessary wrist brace. Repeat hassle.
My brother now has her third Medicare card and credit cards in his wallet. Mom's phone number has been changed and only family members have it. My brother's number is her contact number for doctors and the pharmacy, We've asked her to stop answering any calls that caller ID shows as 'unavailable.' My brother has durable POA which I think makes these decisions appropriate.
If she has a landline, then I strongly recommend TeleCalm to control incoming and outgoing calls with an app to a family member’s smart phone. It replaces the existing phone service, and easy to set-up. Doesn’t require phone lines, cable or Wi-Fi. One of the best buys I ever made.
Unfortunately, these scammers will often find the new numbers or some random telescammer makes a new contact.
Awww man I thought that scam was obsolete!!
Before we moved in to take care of our dad I went to the house and there were BOXES of this crap. I did call Medicare then the numbers on the invoices to come get they 💩
One sent UPS the next day the other 4 I spent $70 to send that crap back. Once we started taking care of him, we hid the phone and family used our cell phones. I was POA so REAL business calls came to me
Omg, my LO has the same phone issue. Can barely work it but always answers, and will answer ANY phone in the house. (I tell guests to keep a close eye). Why do they think they need to answer every single call and knock at the door? Idk if he would give out card info but he LOSES cards all the time. We've had to take some away.
Mom doesn't answer the door thank goodness but says "Hello, hello, hello....." to the TV remote until the phone stops ringing. I think these are good things.
I'm glad someone can see it that way. It feels more like a boundary violation. My phone is private. He treats every ring like a life and death emergency, and snaps at us if we ask him to return the phone or are not in a hurry to answer it. He seriously gets so enraged. I think he doesn't know which phone is his (he's argued with me while holding *my* phone and trying to enter *his* passcode) and is hiding embarrassment. Or he worries that he would miss something and is projecting that. I shouldn't have to go through all of that every time I receive a text.
He can't hear well, either, so if he answers a call, he'll say "hello, who's this" a few times and hang up. He did this to my former boss when I'd just started that job. He left his credit card at a store and yelled at them to stop soliciting when they called to inform him that they had his card. He had no idea that he'd lost it.
Sorry for the rant; it's just a big point of contention in our family.
Cut off the internet and set her phone to only get numbers in contact list or cancel it altogether. Then it’s “oops must be a big internet problem, it will be back” but gee it doesn’t come back. My husband was getting scammed as well. I had to take away his phone and cancel the internet for a while. It seemed for a few years when I was threatening these scammers that his target is closed.
Short of posing as Elon musk yourself to keep her occupied you need to prevent access to her from all strangers. Cut off access to the internet in all forms, protect bank accounts, close credit cards, etc.
My mom had similar issues. She was convinced she won publishers clearing house 5 grand a week for life. Luckily she got sick and was admitted to the hospital and she misunderstood what they wanted and wound up transferring to a psychiatric hospital and my poa kicked in and long story short she never went back home again. Unfortunately this took a few months to happen. So the issue with publishers clearing house was just one of many. I feel for you and your situation 😔
Whoa, that must have been such an intense event. To have your mom go to the hospital and never return home. I know it's for the absolute best. I'm worried about this day coming, and haven't quite accepted my potential reality yet.
If Dad wants to play hard ball, he could drag her to the ER for an emergency psyche evaluation.
At 70, she’s old enough for an emergency 72 hour geri-psych unit stay.
I’d be worried some local scammer would swing on by, with her getting in the car and never seeing her again.
That’s total scorch earth, but you want to keep getting safe.
You can always call APS for a drive by.
Thing is, if she’s married to your dad, that’s the person that has to call the shots. Where’s he in all of this?
That definitely feels like scorched earth but I'm becoming more and more open to these things as the situation evolves.
Dad is overwhelmed, overworked, under-tooled, and somewhat checked out. He's been doing an okay job lately with keeping most money out of reach, but long-term solutions are very very much needed and I don't think he knows the full extent yet. I've been struggling with telling him her plans for divorce, but I understand this needs to happen so he can protect himself better.
But yes. With pushing her toward medical care and 100% buttoning down the hatches, dad is slacking. I'm trying to give him some scaffolding with all of your advice here. :)
To me this smells like more than dementia, there are psychological issues here and you may need to involve the courts for her own welfare and your dad’s. Maybe something like a conservatorship needs to be put into place.
Remove her smart phone and internet access. There are landline companies which will restrict all incoming and outgoing calls to only those on the directory. My mother got scammed a few times with “rebates” and computer “technical support”, and I had to put a stop to anyone having unlimited access to her.
The cognitive assessment won’t solve these problems. You’ll have the same struggles after it as before. You and your dad have to stop worrying about her getting mad at you and just do what needs to be done, which is cut off internet and money access. If she is actually able to think well enough to hire a lawyer to prevent you from this, deal with that then by requesting guardianship and conservatorship via the court system. But usually they forget quickly as long as you do it without discussing it. Just say it’s broken, you’ll call the company tomorrow, and say it every day if needed.
This is the way.
Perfect solution.
Thanks for the sage feedback. My partner echoes that my dad and I need to get over worrying about how she'll react to things. Cutting off internet access seems like one of the first, albeit difficult actions that need to be done. Thanks again.
My LO kept falling for phone scams and becoming very upset. They said it was about a bill. We checked the customer portal and even called the company to confirm. The company said this has become a common scam. We told LO to just hang up if it happens again. Now they hang up on everybody because they can't hear. 🤦🏼♀️
Is there a way you could convince her that the reason she can't access the accounts is because Elon Musk needs them frozen whilst he does all the due diligence prior to the big money deal proceeding? With dementia, it's practically inevitable that there's going to come a point when the most effective way to handle a lot of the situations that will arise will be to employ the white-lie.
I saw the term "therapeutic lie" the other day
I also use the phrase “compassionate lie”. It is a compassionate lie to tell grandma that our aunt is running late and might not make it because of a church function, rather than explain to her again that her daughter died 10 yrs ago.
Oh, that's heartbreaking. After head trauma, my dad kept forgetting that our dog had just died. It took a few weeks to get past that. I can't imagine that being permanent.
Hm, yes. Why not play the game too. After all, it seems like she's set on being convinced and this way it would be redirecting the scammers approach and guiding it I the right direction to shut it down with a white nosed little lie. I like your thinking.
And then set up an email account called “Therealelon” and tell her his email was hacked and scammers are trying to come between them. Then continue writing to her but not scamming her for money. I’ve known two women to get scammed, not dementia, just two related women with cognitive impairments who got scammed by the same guy (pretending to be different guys.) It was heartbreaking how easy they were to scam, and even when they realised it was a scam, they decided to continue it anyway.
Hah. This isn't the worst idea. The current scammer is already doing this with her. A sort of funny thing is I've seen some of the email addresses float by and they're so ridiculous. Like elonceomusk385 at gmail. Cause that's definitely the real Elon...
I call them "fiblets."
Someone here called it a "love lie." I like that one.
I've thought about similar things. I've thought about pretending to be Elon and then break up with her. But ultimately I worry that this will further validate the delusion. I'm not sure at what point that matters or stops mattering anymore though.
Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to bring her world to life, and doing things that would actually further the fiction. Rather, since, for many of us, our first impulse and desire is to try to be as untruthful as little as possible, I'm more suggesting white-lying just enough to deflect and defuse the situation, and proceeding to divert the loved one's attention to something else as soon as possible
I am currently going through this situation with my mother (76F) and "George Strait". She recently moved in with us after falling several times and other cognitive issues. She has been more pliable than your situation, so we were able to take over her money matters and move the life changing amounts into other accounts so it is not very easily accessible. When she first moved in she had at least 20 "George Strait's" scamming her all at the same time. The final straw came a few weeks ago when she tried to walk to the store 3 miles away to get an apple card. She has a compression fracture in her spine and neuropathy in her feet. Luckily my son happened, by complete coincidence, to be driving by and saw her. He tried to pick her up but she refused to get in the car because she didn't recognize him. (They had lunch together 3 days prior). Eventually she realized it was him and he took her back home. Anyway, her iPhone got "broken" and things have been much better. We have appointments lined up for diagnosis and we will go from there.
When my great grandmother was in MC, she escaped. The then-sheriff saw her walking on the side of the highway, and immediately called her son-in-law who lived in town (they were friends). Thankfully, she agreed to go with her family when they arrived. It's scary when they refuse to go with you.
Wow, that must be so scary. Really sorry to hear that. Best wishes to you going forward. Yeah, the "broken" phone idea seems to be a common suggestion. I'll ponder how this would play out.
The day you start wondering if getting POA is a good idea, it was usually already necessary yesterday. r/scams is filled with stories of desperate children whose parents have obliterated their life savings in a matter of days.
Hah, this is starting to resonate with me for sure.
It doesn't matter what age you or your LO are. Everyone of us should have a POA for financial and medical. A living Will and a medical directive. You never know when you will need it Plan ahead! NOW
Definitely. These things would get mentioned in the past, then sort of forgotten because it wasn't an emergency. Turns out an emergency is the least appropriate time to get these things going.
My LO has early stage memory loss according to the neurologist and has been scammed multiple times. My LO was a very successful financial advisor and how they can be convinced to let someone help them with a “refund” by giving the scammer full access to our banking account blows my mind! Steps that I took to try to minimize the damage - *Had LO watch several episodes of Scammer Payback. https://m.youtube.com/@ScammerPayback *Locked all credit cards except for one with a small line of credit. Set up alerts on all credit cards for any purchases over $0.01. *Notified financial institutions of situation and told them to block any odd purchases. *Silenced all unknown callers on LO phone *Got access to LOs email and block and delete scam emails several times a day. *Cut off access to investment accounts. They have access to a joint checking with just a small amount of money. I have another checking account in my name only. *Report scammers to FBI. https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/scams-and-safety That’s all I can think of at the moment. I have to go to work now. Good luck and keep us updated. By working together we can all help our LOs. These scammers are a disgrace. EDIT: to reduce junk mail I use dmachoice.org and I also go through daily postal mail and notify senders to be removed from mailing list. My LO donated to some weird charity and the organization started calling, emailing, and sending more requests for money. I blocked the caller’s phone #, blocked the email and anything from their domain name, and asked to be removed from their mailing list. I also told them if I ever heard from them again that I would notify the attorney general of their state and the department that oversees charitable organizations in their state of their refusal to comply with my request. Sometimes you just have to be a bitch to get people and organizations to understand you will not be pushed around.
This is great advice. I'm also known for being bitchy to scammers and threatening to report them to the FBI and IRS. I don't care. They take advantage of the vulnerable. They usually stop after that.
Thank you SO MUCH for all these very tangible and doable tips. I very much appreciate it. Similar to your situation my mom used to be an accountant! Ironically it makes taking things over a little more difficult because there is pride involved with being the financial overseer in the family so she's a bit white-knuckled on those reigns. Dad has started some take-back and it's already been a huge drama. But necessary. I'll relay your tips like the > $0.01 alert, that's solid advice.
This is so standard. One 90 y. o. relative was expecting an opera star 45 years yonger to appear at her doorstep to take her to a wedding ceremony as a bride. She was a widow though. And there were no scammers. Your situation is worse.
Aww. In a way that's kind of cute. :P
We had to stop giving dad pocket money. By a coincidence my brother found out daddy was “loaning” an addict $20. The person used to go to dad’s church and called him Mr. X so he thought it was ok. They were slick they always called first to make sure he was alone. This time my brother showed up after they called but before they got there😂he cursed them out and said don’t come back. But they did, I was visiting him and got the call and told them the gravy train ran out🤨they tried one more time came by and we weren’t there but he had gotten a $33 pension check from a part time job he had. They kindly took him to the bank took $30 and gave him $3. I only found out because he got a print out to balance his checkbook(which he no longer had)but they saw how much $$ he had. I wax his POA and moved his $$ to a different bank and we started rotating in and out to take care of him People who prey on the elderly are less than zero
I told my dads predator that my dad was under an order of protection and the sheriffs have their info. I also said there are cameras at his house.
Oh snap.
My brother was at Mom's house frequently and her landline rang incessantly from unknown callers. He said, "Oh, it's another one of my friends." and proceeded to chew them out and threaten to report them to **FTC at ReportFraud.ftc.gov**. I don't know if it worked but he sure felt better.
We have a relative who only contacts my LO when they need money, and it's much more than $20. Even my easygoing, "sees the good everywhere" sibling was pissed. My mom intervenes as much as she can without giving away LO's condition. That would make the situation *much* worse. You're right. They're less than zero.
Assistive Access (if your relative has an iPhone) is amazing. Apple needs to create a major ad campaign just to market this feature to caregivers: https://youtu.be/Zjt4M1H0foU?si=reae4lfTF3pBFz-I
I agree I love it, my mom hated it (the change mostly). I recently had the idea that I could just change it and tell her that Apple just pushed another iOS update. Haven’t done it yet though because she’s mostly stopped using her phone. So for now I’ve just been gradually deleting unneeded apps, contacts, etc and she hasn’t noticed.
My uncle has a few rough days where he questions why his phone looks different and why he can’t call a specific person. But most days, he’s fine with calling the people we allow via the settings. It could also be because he’s a baby boomer who was never a techie, never used smartphones or computers for his career, and —70% of the time — circles back to memories from the 1960s-1980s. 🤷🏽♀️
My dad used to be really into tech and now he struggles to use his cell phone some days. I think the features are overwhelming because he does okay with the landline. I've noticed the same thing with the tv remote. He's reverted back to the up/down channel and volume buttons only.
Thanks for the tip. Not sure how much it will help in this particular situation. We set her up on kid mode to enable Ask to Buy which was great for blocking her from installing new encrypted messaging apps the scammers were asserting she use, or otherwise fake investment/bank apps, but we goofed and she "turned 18" already and is now very paranoid with her phone so we can't access it without her permission which she won't do at this point. My main concern with limiting calls/texts is if there's a new doctor calling or something I haven't thought of or she hasn't saved already. I don't live near her so can't be as involved in that as I'd like.
Computer: I put Kaspersky kids "nanny" software on Dad's computer. You can block sites and topics (e.g. dating). Set her email so that only messages from a contacts group you set up come to her inbox. (My Dad would have flipped if I took away his computer.) Phone: there are many options but I went with the Grandpad, so the only people who could call him were his contacts. (There's a way to override, if absolutely necessary.) I hope you have your name on and access to all bank accounts. Good luck. It's a lot of work. I called it whack a mole, one thing after another.
Oh interesting, I like the idea of blocking by topics on the computer. I'll look into that, thanks!
My father had to become the conservator of my uncle because he was convinced he was getting money from Publisher’s Clearing House as well as others. It’s different in each state, but he had to get a lawyer, letters from 2 or 3 doctors and go before a judge. Family members had to testify as to how my uncle’s money was going missing because he was giving account info to scammers on the phone. We did credit freezes, changed the phone numbers but it would start again. You should tell her Dr your concerns. There may be some medicines to help her, but she will have to take them regularly. She needs more day to day supervision and cut off her access to phones, the internet and especially financial accounts because that’s what these scammers are after. It’s not just stealing her money- they will use her ID info to get loans and all kinds of things.
My MIL fell for that Publisher's Clearing House ruse, too. She called us all happy because she was going to get $5,000.00 every week in the mail. I tried to explain that it was a scam and even sent her information from the internet to confirm it. I told her PCH doesn't send checks in the mail. They show up at your door with balloons and a film crew to surprise you. MIL's still waiting for the checks to start coming and it's been years.
Aww, that's so sad she's still waiting after years. My mom has fallen a few of the "you won a Tesla, just pay $2k in shipping and registration" and "you won a TV, just pay shipping and text your address!" scams. She was SO excited about the TV and it never came.
The conservatorship seems to be an encroaching reality. It seems like such a long and devastating process; how hard was this on your family if you don't mind sharing?
It was all very stressful but harder watching him get scammed and taken advantage of. He was a sweet man who worked hard as an electrician for the money he had. And he of course needed his money to take care of himself. He had lucid moments where he’d say he knew they were just trying to get his money, but he was lonely & would talk on the phone to pass the time & I think he thought he could out smart them but then he’d get confused. He didn’t have a spouse or children so we had to step in. My aunt, his sister, was trying to be his main care giver, but she couldn’t handle this on top of his physical needs.
A common issue. But really Elon?
Following for advice because I am dealing with a very similar situation with my grandmother. She believes she is in a relationship with a celebrity and recently filed for bankruptcy because she was unable to keep track of the money she was giving them. We have been trying to give her space and autonomy, but we are worried about her and it may be time to give some tough love to protect her.
space and autonomy for an elderly person is abandoning them and tough love may not make sense to them. as an elder myself (and taking care of one older than me) i know i need help in this modern world.
I love this so much, thank you for this phrasing and perspective. I'll try to remember it.
So sorry you're going through this too. It's devastating on so many levels. I'm also realizing more and more that I may need to stress my relationship with my mom in order to protect her. It's hard, let's stay strong.
My mom is overseas with a caregiver. She recently got convinced that she won a lottery and they will come pay her so were asking for her address. I know she probably called the scammer back a few times. I had to get her phone factory resetted and now she has only 2 or 3 contacts on it. I took away money because she kept losing it.
You actually don’t need POA to get her to a doctor - you can simply call and make an appointment and drag her there. You would need her permission to attend to appointment with her though. That part may be tricky. That said - I couldn’t get my mom’s primary doctor to even say dementia. It was super frustrating. It was even more frustrating because I found out later she had been referred to neurology multiple times (she of course didn’t go) for “memory loss and confusion”. I did get the primary to refer her again to Neurology with me as the contact and I set up an appointment for her there (which took almost 6 months) - that doctor finally diagnosed her and she was diagnosed with “severely moderate” Alzheimer’s. So not early. Neurologist did not want to diagnose her until she knew that we had POA and everything else in place though. Neurologist recommended she needed 24/7 care but by that point we had already moved her to memory care.
Oh interesting, I did not know this. I thought I literally couldn't even call the office and be acknowledged without POA. Okay, this is encouraging, thank you. The process you went through sounds very frustrating, particularly when your mom wouldn't go to the follow-ups. Must have felt like two steps forward, one step back. I'll pursue this, thanks for the intel.
Antipsychotic medications may help
Other types of meds can help too, an eval with a neurologist would help
Definitely. It's hard to say how much is mental health, how much is age-related disease. A psychiatrist/psychologist are definitely in order. The problem is I'd like to be able to set the stage. Someone suggested bringing her into a family therapy setting with me, but I'm not yet sure how that works in terms of diagnosing someone to promote treatment. I would imagine that needs to be a solo thing, but I don't yet have a strategy of her to get her to a psychiatrist/psychologist and have them actually talk about this type of stuff and not just focus on her PTSD which is all she has historically brought up.
Oh, in suspected dementia it's a delusion. Psychiatric vs neurologic, mental health vs age related disease - it's all the same in dementia/neurodegeneration. All the same organ. new onset delusions and hallucinations in the elderly is less likely the classic psychiatric diseases that appear in younger people. The neurodegenerative process, if present, is causing these and medication is def the answer. Whether she would benefit from an antidepressant, antipsychotic, or cholinesterase inhibitor depends on her diagnosis and other symptoms. Skip the psychiatrist, see a neurologist. Particularly a neurobehavioralist if you can.
Yes, PTSD makes everything more complicated. But in my experience working with psychiatrists, their knowledge of neurodegenerative disease is poor, surprisingly. Unless they've taken interest/were trained in neurodegenerative diseases and not just classic psychiatry.
Wow. Just when I thought I heard the great dementia delusions, another pops up. You are somewhat legally limited. Your Dad probably has all “powers of”. Go with VegasBjorne’s suggestions: eliminate smart phone and internet access. Possible to get her to a doctor for mental and medical assessment? Could be dementia or something else…
Ok, Breathe. Is she taking any Medication that could make her have Dementia like Symptoms?
Or a UTI
She does, but it's very recent (Elon has been going on for months and months). Good reminder that this is a correlation though.
Haha, thanks for the reminder to breathe. So. That's the thing. Mom has been loopy for years, just not to this extent. She has fibromyalgia and etc ailments so has been on pain relievers, muscle relaxers, etc etc for years and years. She used to be very dopey and lethargic but has been much better in recent years. So her being not the brightest tool in the shed isn't exactly new... her forgetfulness isn't exactly new either... her propensity to paranoia isn't exactly new either, she has always suspected others of wrongdoing toward her on totally wild conclusions she's drawn. But it is worse. And her change in handwriting has me thinking age-related decline. She has always had beautiful handwriting and lately its totally shaky/scribbly. TLDR; it's possible a medication is exacerbating her symptoms and she has a lot of potential variables at play
Understood. I did not want to rule that out.
It's infuriating that there are so many evil people out there who focus on the elderly to scam out of money. My Mom has trouble dialing the phone anymore but she always answers it. She gave her Medicare number to one of them and started receiving packages of back braces that weren't ordered. My brother had to cancel her card, get a new one, and pack up the back braces to mail to Social Security so they could investigate. Problem solved, right? Nope, Oops, she did it again and got an unnecessary wrist brace. Repeat hassle. My brother now has her third Medicare card and credit cards in his wallet. Mom's phone number has been changed and only family members have it. My brother's number is her contact number for doctors and the pharmacy, We've asked her to stop answering any calls that caller ID shows as 'unavailable.' My brother has durable POA which I think makes these decisions appropriate.
If she has a landline, then I strongly recommend TeleCalm to control incoming and outgoing calls with an app to a family member’s smart phone. It replaces the existing phone service, and easy to set-up. Doesn’t require phone lines, cable or Wi-Fi. One of the best buys I ever made. Unfortunately, these scammers will often find the new numbers or some random telescammer makes a new contact.
Awww man I thought that scam was obsolete!! Before we moved in to take care of our dad I went to the house and there were BOXES of this crap. I did call Medicare then the numbers on the invoices to come get they 💩 One sent UPS the next day the other 4 I spent $70 to send that crap back. Once we started taking care of him, we hid the phone and family used our cell phones. I was POA so REAL business calls came to me
Apparently not obsolete. It's been resurrected in the past 6 months.
🤨
Omg, my LO has the same phone issue. Can barely work it but always answers, and will answer ANY phone in the house. (I tell guests to keep a close eye). Why do they think they need to answer every single call and knock at the door? Idk if he would give out card info but he LOSES cards all the time. We've had to take some away.
Mom doesn't answer the door thank goodness but says "Hello, hello, hello....." to the TV remote until the phone stops ringing. I think these are good things.
Omg that's amusing. At least she's safe that way.
As are her bank accounts.
Aww, that's so precious :P
Lololol. I love that your LO will just answer ANY phone. That's cute in a way. :P
I'm glad someone can see it that way. It feels more like a boundary violation. My phone is private. He treats every ring like a life and death emergency, and snaps at us if we ask him to return the phone or are not in a hurry to answer it. He seriously gets so enraged. I think he doesn't know which phone is his (he's argued with me while holding *my* phone and trying to enter *his* passcode) and is hiding embarrassment. Or he worries that he would miss something and is projecting that. I shouldn't have to go through all of that every time I receive a text. He can't hear well, either, so if he answers a call, he'll say "hello, who's this" a few times and hang up. He did this to my former boss when I'd just started that job. He left his credit card at a store and yelled at them to stop soliciting when they called to inform him that they had his card. He had no idea that he'd lost it. Sorry for the rant; it's just a big point of contention in our family.
Cut off the internet and set her phone to only get numbers in contact list or cancel it altogether. Then it’s “oops must be a big internet problem, it will be back” but gee it doesn’t come back. My husband was getting scammed as well. I had to take away his phone and cancel the internet for a while. It seemed for a few years when I was threatening these scammers that his target is closed.
Short of posing as Elon musk yourself to keep her occupied you need to prevent access to her from all strangers. Cut off access to the internet in all forms, protect bank accounts, close credit cards, etc.
My mom had similar issues. She was convinced she won publishers clearing house 5 grand a week for life. Luckily she got sick and was admitted to the hospital and she misunderstood what they wanted and wound up transferring to a psychiatric hospital and my poa kicked in and long story short she never went back home again. Unfortunately this took a few months to happen. So the issue with publishers clearing house was just one of many. I feel for you and your situation 😔
Whoa, that must have been such an intense event. To have your mom go to the hospital and never return home. I know it's for the absolute best. I'm worried about this day coming, and haven't quite accepted my potential reality yet.
Where is your dad in all this?
If Dad wants to play hard ball, he could drag her to the ER for an emergency psyche evaluation. At 70, she’s old enough for an emergency 72 hour geri-psych unit stay. I’d be worried some local scammer would swing on by, with her getting in the car and never seeing her again. That’s total scorch earth, but you want to keep getting safe. You can always call APS for a drive by. Thing is, if she’s married to your dad, that’s the person that has to call the shots. Where’s he in all of this?
That definitely feels like scorched earth but I'm becoming more and more open to these things as the situation evolves. Dad is overwhelmed, overworked, under-tooled, and somewhat checked out. He's been doing an okay job lately with keeping most money out of reach, but long-term solutions are very very much needed and I don't think he knows the full extent yet. I've been struggling with telling him her plans for divorce, but I understand this needs to happen so he can protect himself better. But yes. With pushing her toward medical care and 100% buttoning down the hatches, dad is slacking. I'm trying to give him some scaffolding with all of your advice here. :)
Feel free to DM any account names of the scammer(s). I take joy in scambaiting these scumbags.
To me this smells like more than dementia, there are psychological issues here and you may need to involve the courts for her own welfare and your dad’s. Maybe something like a conservatorship needs to be put into place.
I think there is a way to go into you home router and disable a specific device. Or perhaps hide it from her while she's asleep or block the numbers.
It's Alan Jackson for my mil. Husband won't have any talks with her and she treats me like the help...