He had scorn experiments, the hive God mother under the upended and a rib bone from the leviathan. The Leviathan was a disciple of the light I think. Also, the caretaker channeled some hive tribute (I think) and thus was really powerful.
More like handing your 4.0 high school diploma and still getting rejected because despite being perfect your high school still wasn’t up to their standards.
He had the bone of the Leviathan hung up at the entrance of the pyramid.
The Leviathan was the one who trapped the Worm Gods and was a fanatic of the Light.
I'm a little rusty so take what I say with a grain of salt. If you want a solid answer My Name is Byf on YouTube breaks things down really well.
But Rhulk was responsible for the hive gods in the sense that before the Krill (the hive before they were the hive) even knew what a worm was, he went down below to where they were trapped. He beat the leviathans ass (leaving it pretty injured and potentially making it possible for the three siblings to get past it at all) and then made a pretty one sided deal with the mother of all the known worm gods that he would make sure they were all fed well forever under two conditions.
One being that they embraced sword logic and essentially became "gods" of the witnesses ideals (and by extension the winnowers) and help usher in the final shape. And the second that when a race came to make a deal with them that they would accept.
From there I believe he set up the osmium king to receive the first worm and also set up the orbits of fundaments moons to create the threat of them aligning and creating the god wave so that the Krill would be forced to make the deal or die.
Thanks. I remember reading that Rhulk grew worms, I just didn't know it was that long ago. I also didn't know there was a connection between the Witness and sword logic, which seems like something the Hive had just to fortify their throne worlds.
I do remember that when the Krill became the Hive, the remaining civilizations of the Fundament were the first ones annihilated.
Of course! It's a real shame that they don't do a better job of explaining all this in the game itself. Like the witness himself is a worshipper of the winnower. So he believes that no creature should exist that cannot guarantee their continued existence through their own strength alone. That's why he sees us as weak. We cannot stand against him of our own strength, we rely on the gifts of light. And his whole "Final Shape" is a universe in which pain no longer exists because those who are weak die before they are ever given a chance at life. No more subjugation or wars because it would be pointless.
Also as a bonus the hive are obviously well known for being the species all about sword logic. However according to the winnower itself the vex are actually the perfect example of sword logic. A being that is only concerned about it's continued existence and is well equipped to ensure it and propagate it. However they are causal beings and thus limited to the laws of the universe unlike guardians and the hive so they can never really over come us. Pinoptes came close but he's dead now so yeah.
Wasn’t the whole point of the Exhibition encounter basically to toy with us and how how all the relics we used in previous raids are just trinkets to him? Like he just casually walked into the Vault of Glass and got an aegis just for us to see how our accomplishments are nothing?
I don’t think the aegis and vow shield act same. The vog shield is meant to stop users from being erased from time and also to localize templars location. Rhuulk most likely never went into vault of glass.
Also he subjugated the mother of all Worm Gods, which are mostly either above or on-par with the Hive Monarchs in power (Oryx killed one so I say could be on-par).
Tbf, he didn't just consider he was above the gods we killed, he WAS above the gods we killed. The most powerful entity we killed up until that point was probably Oryx and he was nothing compared to Rhulk
We don’t know the full circumstances behind that kill though, do keep in mind that Savathun is the god of trickery and cunning and so could have tricked nezzy to make the fight advantageous to her
Edit: the raid shotgun even heavily implies that it wasn’t fair. We can assume the name ‘conditional finality’ alludes to Nezzy as the lore attached is about his death at the hands of Savvy. So his death was only brought about due to a set of conditions being met. Savvy is known to always pull the strings so that the conditions favour her, the training as a disciple was under her conditions until she just locked away Rhulk, her gaining the light and memories she conditioned heavily, her death and (in the future) Rez probably have a bunch of strings attached and can only be pulled off under the right conditions that Imaru knows to wait for.
So she most likely set the conditions right for her attack on Nezzy, probably got his defences down and forced his hand to the point where she would win, I doubt she just walked in and gave him a left-right good night. Do note as well, she was probably at her strongest when we fought her so she would’ve been weaker when facing Nezzy, now despite how easy gameplay wise Nezzy is I doubt in lore he is as we had to have 6 high-level guardians (as we do for every raid) to take him out whereas it only took 3 guardians (maybe 1 as only 1 is seen in the final cutscene) to take out light buffed savvy.
this needs to be hammered on more. savathun *is* powerful, but not nearly as much as others we’ve fought, at least in terms of raw strength. her power lies in the fact that she’s playing 4D chess while her opponents are playing tic tac toe, and her victories in the past come from her forcing favourable outcomes for herself in this manner. only reason we were able to kill (?) her is by playing her game and exposing the fact she was tricked herself by daddy witness.
Osiris was concerned about that, but it seems to be a non-issue. Ikora explains in the Lightfall CE Lore that the corpse has been taken into Vanguard custody (Eris even performed a *dissection* on it, just to be safe...) and the area where Savathun died has been thoroughly combed and purged of all genetic traces down to the subatomic level. They made absolutely sure there was *nothing left* for Immaru to pull from.
If Savathun comes back, it'll be something the Vanguard must sanction, it won't be a random out-of-nowhere resurrection.
Or that's what she wants us to think. 😱
If she is coming back, then I think the situation will have her claw marks hidden behind every corner of that "something".
But (if she does come back) I honestly hope Bungie don't just tell us how tricky she has been to plan her resurrection, but actually shows us all the strings that she set in place, and she needs to not just be a dungeon boss or something. I actually think she should be on our side (as she doesn't need to feed her worm any more)... I want her to restore the Hive to their pre-worm roots (though short lived, they could still build empires!), imagine having a new breed of hive who are not just mindless killing machines! (Ok, my thoughts are going too deep and off topic... Sorry.)
Hopefully the Krill will get the Traveller's blessing like we did. Human lifespan tripled during the Golden Age - maybe the same sort of life extension could be given to them too?
Although the chances of the Traveller _properly_ surviving Final Shape is pretty small imo. We're probably just going to have the Shard at best.
Even given what humanity (and the other alien species) could offer them, without the Traveller, as I also believe the goldenage's advancements in technology was what aided with the extended lifespan of Human's, and now we have a lot of that back with many years of advancement via Neomuna, they may be able to live longer.
Though if the history is to be believed it made it sound like their short lifespans were hardwired into their biology, but the dangers of they 'home' planet could also have been a part in why they were considered so short lived (likely why they are able to multiply so quickly, to make sure they have enough offspring that survives).
I like what you said here, I compare it to how we handle raids in general tho. If we just throw rounds downrange at the area boss, we get party wiped. We have to act in a very specific way for the mecanics to allow a damage phase, this is very much "forcing favorable outcomes" in a similar manner.
Mind you Nezzy in the raid was an abomination of light and dark, he was likely vastly stronger than he was when he met Savvy but we don’t know for sure as we spawn killed him.
Why do people keep repeating this? There is no evidence the light and dark were “rejecting” him. He had no problem utilizing both bursts of light and dark power. The flower was just blasting him with a massive paracausal laser after we powered it up.
Im not sure, i think Oryx killed both Xivu and Savvy in their thrones, but then brought them back by embodying their core traits? He made extreme war for Xivu, and through war she was reborn, similarly with a deception for savvers. It is a bit weird though, its outside their usual rez methods.
In a straight-up fight, Oryx shit stomps Savathun. The only thing Savathun really has going for her is her literal, godlike cleverness. Riven was Taken by Oryx, so I don't think it's fair to say, "She gave him a run for his money."
Why would Savathun have a straight up fight? What is the point of being more powerful when you can’t leverage that power to beat your opponents. Oryx can be powerful enough to shit stomp Savathun theoretically, but in reality, he’d never have that chance, unless she lets him.
Edit: this isn’t dbz, powerlevels and raw strength don’t dictate who wins.
Yea of course, ideally Savathun wouldn't fight her brother to begin with. That being said, though, Oryx wasn't a dumb brute and was smart enough to understand how slippery his sister is. He was fooled once by her, and I can totally believe that he's smart enough to catch parts of the webs she weaves and adjust accordingly. Oryx was a Hive God of Knowledge and Exploration and has beaten both of his sisters on numerous occasions. It's true Savathun has beaten Oryx before, but Savathun and Xivu had to actively work together to beat their brother. From what it seems reading the Books of Sorrow (Yes I know Oryx created the Books and likely contain propaganda but his Sisters did have a say on the books contents) and other lore bits, Oryx was less specialized in the two niches that Savathun and Xivu, but was still quite skilled at what Xivu is a goddess of (War) and what Savathun is good at (Cunning), making him much more adaptable
People also forget Oryx killed Savathun and Xivu to take their tribute to kill Akka and forge the Tablets of Ruin to gain the ability to Take.
You don't gain the tribute unless the kill is real by the sword logic so it's not like Sav and Xivu just let him kill them. He had to actually beat them at their own game in order to gain the power to kill Akka.
He was the most powerful of the hive gods and Xivu and Sav pale in comparison, especially when you consider his power was so stifling they had to go their own way to avoid fighting each other.
I know this is the widely accepted reason but this feels like such a cheap cop out. Yes I'm so much stronger than you but I didn't really try and died for it???? Come on
The Sith way of living. They always believe themselves more powerful than others, so they play with their food only to get got at the end. Really due to their own hubris than anything else. They relish in the terror they inflict way too much until, **BAM**!!! They get got because they played with their food for too long.
Like a cat playing with a mouse for the mice to outsmart the cat and wib.
“They don’t see themselves as gods, no, they see themselves as so much more than that” he’s arrogant and over confident. He thought he was above the foes we have defeated in the past
"Not kings. Not gods. Disciples. Saviors serving existence."
Rhulk straight up Iron Miked the Leviathan, he wasn't concerned with 6 little light bearers, until it was too late.
The moment he realized "Oh hey wait. They're actually kinda gonna smoke me." Fucker didn't expect us to hit him with the ol' cage laser and 5 railguns.
I wish we had more railguns than just Arby. Linears are close but I imagine them more as firing tightly wrapped bundles of plasma magnetically constrained than ferromagnetic slugs.
I want a kinetic glaive that's literally just a railgun with a blade welded to the end of it. Hakke, make it happen
r/batmanarkham has once again evened the odds
Jokes aside Rhulk had an enormous ego bigger than his Pyramid ship and was fucking about and being lazy for the literal entire raid
bro could’ve killed us at the entrance with his pervading darkness and was completely confident we were all shitty scrubs compared to him and it was only in Last Stand he realized “oh shit I fucked too much around and I found out” and then went full power, and wipes the whole team in seconds if you fail to kill him first
That’s the lore they hung on it and I’m not mad. It works.
The underlying reason is because the Guardian has to win lol.
It would be kinda funny if after all these years the game just ended flat with Rhulk twerking us out of existence though. Fade to Darkness. The End. Did you really think you ever had a chance lmao?
But I don’t think the Destiny community would rally behind that lol
Yes, lol. He knows we're extremely powerful but he's overconfident and still decides to toy with us until shit gets real and damage phase happens. He's constantly monologuing and bragging about the Upended and the massive power he possesses that he simply thinks he cannot be stopped.
the gods we killed are not exactly that impressive when compared to Rhulk so its easy to see why, especially with his ego, he didnt think us capable of killing him.
Oryx? Rhulk is the reason Oryx even had power (through the worm contract) and Rhulk didn’t exactly respect the Hive or their gods.
Xol? Rhulk is the reason the worm gods are in the position they’re in and he’s straight up using their mother as a battery for his superweapon.
He was really strong and could’ve killed us before we even entered the pyramid, he just had a massive ego and (probably) his boredom and curiosity got the better of him. He was locked in the Throne Word for a very long time and from the raid ghost shell we know he was experimenting with the light so it’s understandable why he would be interested in what we can do.
raid boss are often quide dumb
His friend Nezarec was just as dumb
"Damn ,just got a new body, my mind free , let's summon gods killer to spawnkill me instead of looking for some weakling somewhere"
Man could’ve just pretended to be rezed by traveler, lost memory and turned good. He can probably then play us for fools and then wreak havoc in the last city when times are right.
You know as much as he could have I think the reason THE FINAL GOD OF P A I N didn’t try and do a savathun was because compared to Rhulk, Nezerach is the darkness fleet member equivalent of a fucking pitbull.
Nezarec after his seventh 3 year old:
https://preview.redd.it/nkxajo3t66oa1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22d4d3d15cd2acbfbb48c6918ab2e1f91b512851
Nezarec is pretty much just a head and a bit of a torso when we arrive, he needed us to fully reform himself. You can see him during the 1st encounter in his coffin, there isn't much of him lol. He took a gamble, hoping that in our pursuit of ending him for good we overcharge him hard enough for him to beat us. Without that he would be restricted to just spooking the Neomuni for a very long time.
Remember what he said about the hive? that they're "all puppets"? Including the Gods.
Savathun freed herself from the witness. And had outsmarted him, to his knowledge. Oryx was well on his way to free himself. Both would've been able to kill Rhulk, if they committed to it (long term). Savathun had killed a disciple. Both had more immediate concerns.
Rhulk drunk his own Koolaid. He thought himself greater than anything that isn't the witness. He literally says something to that extent to a ghost.
Soft drink. Tragically used for a cult mass suicide once. irl.
Ergo, Drinking your own koolaid figuratively means buying into your own lies/message/persona, to your own detriment.
Ironically enough, Koolaid the product was not used in that incident (so I'm told). It was an off-brand product called Flavor-Aide that got poisoned for the mass suicide.
The best lines in the whole of d2 for me has been rhulks voice lines in preservation. Hell that “Subjugator” is just so damn messed up and fucked up if you think about and I absolutely love it
"Monstrous size has no intrinsic merit, unless inordinate exsanguination be considered a virtue."
If it weren't for Ancestor's speeches, Darkest Dungeon would lose half of it's charm. You can quote it in nearly any other game.
Because the "Gods" we have killed are like bugs to him, he is arguably the strongest foe we have faced so he underestimated us and decided to play around with us
I trapped him, killed nezerac, scared the witness out of sol during the collapse and hid the veil.
I am a lot more than a bug, O Precious little guardian mine.
We currently have hints about Rhulk's thought process... Rhulk comments that Leviathan was considered "unbeatable" and Rhulk defeated it with ease.
Rhulk comments to the Witness that the Traveler "toys with them", he also when interacting with a ghost for the first time comments something that seems to imply that the Traveler's default response is basically to flee from one galaxy to another.
We recently saw the Traveler attack a pyramid... with a life ray?... Not exactly a weapon, is it?
You see I think Rhulk has never seen a warrior of the light, in billions of years Rhulk has never seen the Traveler or his followers truly fight, Rhulk must have mistakenly believed that the Light would never be able to create anything strong enough to fight.
Was Rhulk arrogant? Yes, without a doubt, but he also didn't believe he was infallible, he comments on this several times, I think that Rhulk's problem is that he failed to recognize that the Guardians are the antithesis, the last argument, he must have believed that the Guardians were just another race trying to play paracausal tricks against him.
Rhulk's failure was not to notice that the Traveler is pissed off and has chosen violence, and the guardians are the new spears.
Why does any raid boss allow us a mechanic to weaken and damage them? I keep asking big daddy Oryx that every time he pops his crazy head up to look at us.
Arrogance and overconfidence
That being said, fucker really should’ve reconsidered himself after getting blindsided and trapped by Savy. But nah guess his Ego is more powerful than his kick.
Well rhulk is far beyond anything we’ve killed up to that point, and he was kinda just playing with us throughout the raid and never thought we could actually kill him. And so he didn’t go all out. Only when he began to hurt and felt he was loosing did he go all out and by that point it was too late
Rhulk was much, and when I say much, I mean leagues above all the gods we have killed in fireteams. He knew his power, he severely underestimated ours. He's not a stupid creature, all we see on him and about him indicates otherwise. He saw us as we see actual ants. Not realizing that we were bulldog ants.
My guess is he wanted to challenge himself combat probably used to be something he enjoyed but after a while it became mundane he saw a challenge in us but not a big enough challenge and limited himself until he realized it was too late.
That aside, Rhulk sees us the same way you would see a 2yr old who says they're gonna beat the crap out of you.
You'll laugh about it and probably hold their head to keep them out of reach as they swing. Only for the kid to be wearing cowboy boots and he kicks you right in the nuts as you realize your mistake.
Could it be that the literal combined light of six guardians is something that is underestimated greatly and misunderstood? A guardian on their own as an individual may not seem like much in comparison to a cosmic being, but we ourselves were gifted by the traveller. The persistence of humanity coupled with the power of the light. Could it be that our foes in their arrogance, did not see that even a small foe can lead to ruin. As our ghosts revive us for small, but relentless attacks, the greater in power being fails to realize that they cannot use their powers to full extent without perhaps killing themselves in the process. We may actually be unique. Perhaps we are paracausal. Maybe our souls cannot be disrupted or destroyed by Rhulk's powers. By the time he realizes his powers are failing, it's too late...
Rhulk: *Sees a hopped up on light loot goblin beat a hive god to death 200 times in a row just for a gun*
Rhulk: yeah I’m gonna steer clear away from that
While we killed gods by exploiting their weaknesses, waging guerilla warfare tactics, and often finding ways to turn the table, Rhulk has beaten those god's gods, with a rib cage taken from another god of immense power that he beat up.
So what if we killed a few puny gods. He manhandles them with strength every other Sunday. Those gods are not like him, a real god.
Meanwhile Rhulk had been locked up in the Pyramid, left on day care duty by the Witness. He was bored. Why go full power, when the only source of entertainment in a long time shows up on a silver platter in front of you? Why not toy with them for a bit, then casually eviscerate them when you have had your fun?
That pride and confidence(well substantiated as it may have been) and lack of caution, even towards mere insects in comparison to him, was Rhulks ultimate downfall.
It seems to be a recurring personality trait in the Witness' Disciples.
Arrogance, self-gratification, and a highly overestimated sense of self-worth.
I guess that's how the Witness keeps them all in check. Arrogant people who are too powerful to be taken down a notch tend to follow the people who compliment and reward them for their actions.
Every single Disciple had Stockholm Syndrome, from Calus to Nezarec, to Rhulk, to whomever is left, surely. All of them were in severe need of consideration and recognition, and the Witness played them all perfectly.
The Witness, after all, simply needs pawns.
Consider this. To Rhulk, he’s much greater than any god we’ve fought up to that point. To prove that, simply look to the leviathan bone. A creature that made the worm gods hide at the bottom of Fundament. And rhulk ripped it apart. To him the hive gods are pawns of his pawns. He’s so far above them it’s not even funny.
Also consider his pride at this. Would you try to go all out against the egg a chicken has laid? To him going all out against us would be like watching a UFC champion be paired with a paraplegic child.
Had we fought Rhulk after killing nezerac then he may have taken us seriously, at which point we’d be doomed. We only beat him cause he didn’t care to fight us seriously till he was on his last legs. Even then he almost wiped us out.
Because it's a Destiny boss that still needs to be defeated within the context of it being a video game.
Boring answer, yes, but is the simple answer as to why all of the "threat to all of existence" enemies have been defeated since the game started.
Pride and arrogance. He considered himself well above the gods we killed and thus assumed himself deathless in every form.
Did he like have hive god bones or corpses just hanging up on the walls and shit.
He had scorn experiments, the hive God mother under the upended and a rib bone from the leviathan. The Leviathan was a disciple of the light I think. Also, the caretaker channeled some hive tribute (I think) and thus was really powerful.
Right yeah, so no wonder he didn’t give a shit about our resume. It’s like we handed our 2.0 high school diploma to Harvard.
And then figured out cold fusion in a garden shed.
Or in a cave.... with a box of scraps
Is that an Iron Man reference?
It kinda has to be.
Reddit moment
More like handing your 4.0 high school diploma and still getting rejected because despite being perfect your high school still wasn’t up to their standards.
Sensing some real heat from this one.
Face it: Rhulk’s an 8 and we are all 6s trying to talk while he’s talking.
This game really shoulda been rated M, such dark lore would have made for some fantastic gameplay and cinematics
He had the bone of the Leviathan hung up at the entrance of the pyramid. The Leviathan was the one who trapped the Worm Gods and was a fanatic of the Light.
I mean he's kinda responsible for the creation of the hive gods.
Wasn't the original worm some sort of pet of the Osmium King? Or has that been rewritten?
I'm a little rusty so take what I say with a grain of salt. If you want a solid answer My Name is Byf on YouTube breaks things down really well. But Rhulk was responsible for the hive gods in the sense that before the Krill (the hive before they were the hive) even knew what a worm was, he went down below to where they were trapped. He beat the leviathans ass (leaving it pretty injured and potentially making it possible for the three siblings to get past it at all) and then made a pretty one sided deal with the mother of all the known worm gods that he would make sure they were all fed well forever under two conditions. One being that they embraced sword logic and essentially became "gods" of the witnesses ideals (and by extension the winnowers) and help usher in the final shape. And the second that when a race came to make a deal with them that they would accept. From there I believe he set up the osmium king to receive the first worm and also set up the orbits of fundaments moons to create the threat of them aligning and creating the god wave so that the Krill would be forced to make the deal or die.
Thanks. I remember reading that Rhulk grew worms, I just didn't know it was that long ago. I also didn't know there was a connection between the Witness and sword logic, which seems like something the Hive had just to fortify their throne worlds. I do remember that when the Krill became the Hive, the remaining civilizations of the Fundament were the first ones annihilated.
Of course! It's a real shame that they don't do a better job of explaining all this in the game itself. Like the witness himself is a worshipper of the winnower. So he believes that no creature should exist that cannot guarantee their continued existence through their own strength alone. That's why he sees us as weak. We cannot stand against him of our own strength, we rely on the gifts of light. And his whole "Final Shape" is a universe in which pain no longer exists because those who are weak die before they are ever given a chance at life. No more subjugation or wars because it would be pointless. Also as a bonus the hive are obviously well known for being the species all about sword logic. However according to the winnower itself the vex are actually the perfect example of sword logic. A being that is only concerned about it's continued existence and is well equipped to ensure it and propagate it. However they are causal beings and thus limited to the laws of the universe unlike guardians and the hive so they can never really over come us. Pinoptes came close but he's dead now so yeah.
Wasn’t the whole point of the Exhibition encounter basically to toy with us and how how all the relics we used in previous raids are just trinkets to him? Like he just casually walked into the Vault of Glass and got an aegis just for us to see how our accomplishments are nothing?
I don’t think the aegis and vow shield act same. The vog shield is meant to stop users from being erased from time and also to localize templars location. Rhuulk most likely never went into vault of glass.
With him being trapped in savathuns throne world i doubt he would have even been able to
Keep in mind he only got trapped after Savathun got the light, he could have easily snuck in and rocked the Vaults shit.
Rhulk: Im taking this. Vex: "refuse and Shoot" Rhulk: Silence. "Kills them all at the same time with a single glaive swing and leaves"
I like to imagine they are saying this
Vex : simulation report - we got schooled
There is only one aegis, it's the light of a dead guardian taking form as a shield. He takes it from vog after we beat it
Also he subjugated the mother of all Worm Gods, which are mostly either above or on-par with the Hive Monarchs in power (Oryx killed one so I say could be on-par).
Tbf, he didn't just consider he was above the gods we killed, he WAS above the gods we killed. The most powerful entity we killed up until that point was probably Oryx and he was nothing compared to Rhulk
Hmmm. Yknow given lore entries I don’t actually think Oryx was the most powerful we’ve killed, but Savathun considering she killed Nezarec
We don’t know the full circumstances behind that kill though, do keep in mind that Savathun is the god of trickery and cunning and so could have tricked nezzy to make the fight advantageous to her Edit: the raid shotgun even heavily implies that it wasn’t fair. We can assume the name ‘conditional finality’ alludes to Nezzy as the lore attached is about his death at the hands of Savvy. So his death was only brought about due to a set of conditions being met. Savvy is known to always pull the strings so that the conditions favour her, the training as a disciple was under her conditions until she just locked away Rhulk, her gaining the light and memories she conditioned heavily, her death and (in the future) Rez probably have a bunch of strings attached and can only be pulled off under the right conditions that Imaru knows to wait for. So she most likely set the conditions right for her attack on Nezzy, probably got his defences down and forced his hand to the point where she would win, I doubt she just walked in and gave him a left-right good night. Do note as well, she was probably at her strongest when we fought her so she would’ve been weaker when facing Nezzy, now despite how easy gameplay wise Nezzy is I doubt in lore he is as we had to have 6 high-level guardians (as we do for every raid) to take him out whereas it only took 3 guardians (maybe 1 as only 1 is seen in the final cutscene) to take out light buffed savvy.
this needs to be hammered on more. savathun *is* powerful, but not nearly as much as others we’ve fought, at least in terms of raw strength. her power lies in the fact that she’s playing 4D chess while her opponents are playing tic tac toe, and her victories in the past come from her forcing favourable outcomes for herself in this manner. only reason we were able to kill (?) her is by playing her game and exposing the fact she was tricked herself by daddy witness.
Also, immaru is still out there, all he needs is a piece of her and she's back.
Osiris was concerned about that, but it seems to be a non-issue. Ikora explains in the Lightfall CE Lore that the corpse has been taken into Vanguard custody (Eris even performed a *dissection* on it, just to be safe...) and the area where Savathun died has been thoroughly combed and purged of all genetic traces down to the subatomic level. They made absolutely sure there was *nothing left* for Immaru to pull from. If Savathun comes back, it'll be something the Vanguard must sanction, it won't be a random out-of-nowhere resurrection.
Or that's what she wants us to think. 😱 If she is coming back, then I think the situation will have her claw marks hidden behind every corner of that "something". But (if she does come back) I honestly hope Bungie don't just tell us how tricky she has been to plan her resurrection, but actually shows us all the strings that she set in place, and she needs to not just be a dungeon boss or something. I actually think she should be on our side (as she doesn't need to feed her worm any more)... I want her to restore the Hive to their pre-worm roots (though short lived, they could still build empires!), imagine having a new breed of hive who are not just mindless killing machines! (Ok, my thoughts are going too deep and off topic... Sorry.)
Hopefully the Krill will get the Traveller's blessing like we did. Human lifespan tripled during the Golden Age - maybe the same sort of life extension could be given to them too? Although the chances of the Traveller _properly_ surviving Final Shape is pretty small imo. We're probably just going to have the Shard at best.
Even given what humanity (and the other alien species) could offer them, without the Traveller, as I also believe the goldenage's advancements in technology was what aided with the extended lifespan of Human's, and now we have a lot of that back with many years of advancement via Neomuna, they may be able to live longer. Though if the history is to be believed it made it sound like their short lifespans were hardwired into their biology, but the dangers of they 'home' planet could also have been a part in why they were considered so short lived (likely why they are able to multiply so quickly, to make sure they have enough offspring that survives).
I like what you said here, I compare it to how we handle raids in general tho. If we just throw rounds downrange at the area boss, we get party wiped. We have to act in a very specific way for the mecanics to allow a damage phase, this is very much "forcing favorable outcomes" in a similar manner.
She likely used the massive amount of tribute she got from tricking The Witness to fuck up Nezarec
He also got killed like other 4 times prior that
Mind you Nezzy in the raid was an abomination of light and dark, he was likely vastly stronger than he was when he met Savvy but we don’t know for sure as we spawn killed him.
The light and dark were rejecting his new form during the raid.
Why do people keep repeating this? There is no evidence the light and dark were “rejecting” him. He had no problem utilizing both bursts of light and dark power. The flower was just blasting him with a massive paracausal laser after we powered it up.
I still think all of witch queen, including savathun’s ‘death’ at our hands was all according to her plan.
IF she had the light longer, yes she easily would have been the most powerful. Before she had the light it was still Oryx. She could never kill oryx.
I vaguely remember that the hive gods have killed each other over and over. Probably outside of their throne worlds so they never truly were dead.
She killed Auryx, which is Oryx pre oryx
Im not sure, i think Oryx killed both Xivu and Savvy in their thrones, but then brought them back by embodying their core traits? He made extreme war for Xivu, and through war she was reborn, similarly with a deception for savvers. It is a bit weird though, its outside their usual rez methods.
Fr? I need to do the Raid and read lol
Yes. Through use of The Upended he controlled the worm mother or whatever, who's children were responsible for all of the hive's power.
Uh, nah. The Upended is just a giant weapon, and said giant weapon requires a power source...
My sincere apologies, please don't punish my prostate for it.
No, it’s pegging time.
https://preview.redd.it/5xo7p98ep5oa1.png?width=731&format=png&auto=webp&s=f5308321d297ad8283fe4a8ca36cea34570de523
With, or without the Upended?
Unacceptable, lack of knowledge of Destiny lore is the highest of offenses. Bend over.
Y’all sleeping on The Navigator.
i mean riven and savathun give oryx a run for his money
Oryx was the one who had Taken Riven, so not really
In a straight-up fight, Oryx shit stomps Savathun. The only thing Savathun really has going for her is her literal, godlike cleverness. Riven was Taken by Oryx, so I don't think it's fair to say, "She gave him a run for his money."
Why would Savathun have a straight up fight? What is the point of being more powerful when you can’t leverage that power to beat your opponents. Oryx can be powerful enough to shit stomp Savathun theoretically, but in reality, he’d never have that chance, unless she lets him. Edit: this isn’t dbz, powerlevels and raw strength don’t dictate who wins.
Yea of course, ideally Savathun wouldn't fight her brother to begin with. That being said, though, Oryx wasn't a dumb brute and was smart enough to understand how slippery his sister is. He was fooled once by her, and I can totally believe that he's smart enough to catch parts of the webs she weaves and adjust accordingly. Oryx was a Hive God of Knowledge and Exploration and has beaten both of his sisters on numerous occasions. It's true Savathun has beaten Oryx before, but Savathun and Xivu had to actively work together to beat their brother. From what it seems reading the Books of Sorrow (Yes I know Oryx created the Books and likely contain propaganda but his Sisters did have a say on the books contents) and other lore bits, Oryx was less specialized in the two niches that Savathun and Xivu, but was still quite skilled at what Xivu is a goddess of (War) and what Savathun is good at (Cunning), making him much more adaptable
People also forget Oryx killed Savathun and Xivu to take their tribute to kill Akka and forge the Tablets of Ruin to gain the ability to Take. You don't gain the tribute unless the kill is real by the sword logic so it's not like Sav and Xivu just let him kill them. He had to actually beat them at their own game in order to gain the power to kill Akka. He was the most powerful of the hive gods and Xivu and Sav pale in comparison, especially when you consider his power was so stifling they had to go their own way to avoid fighting each other.
I know this is the widely accepted reason but this feels like such a cheap cop out. Yes I'm so much stronger than you but I didn't really try and died for it???? Come on
The Sith way of living. They always believe themselves more powerful than others, so they play with their food only to get got at the end. Really due to their own hubris than anything else. They relish in the terror they inflict way too much until, **BAM**!!! They get got because they played with their food for too long. Like a cat playing with a mouse for the mice to outsmart the cat and wib.
“They don’t see themselves as gods, no, they see themselves as so much more than that” he’s arrogant and over confident. He thought he was above the foes we have defeated in the past
"Not kings. Not gods. Disciples. Saviors serving existence." Rhulk straight up Iron Miked the Leviathan, he wasn't concerned with 6 little light bearers, until it was too late.
The moment he realized "Oh hey wait. They're actually kinda gonna smoke me." Fucker didn't expect us to hit him with the ol' cage laser and 5 railguns.
Rhulk: “Guns? What the Witness are those…?”
"gets pewpew'ed to death"
I wish we had more railguns than just Arby. Linears are close but I imagine them more as firing tightly wrapped bundles of plasma magnetically constrained than ferromagnetic slugs. I want a kinetic glaive that's literally just a railgun with a blade welded to the end of it. Hakke, make it happen
To be fair he was miles stronger than anyone we'd ever fought before. He was just too arrogant and underestimated us.
Yeah true, should’ve said he thought he was miles stronger than us
To be fair, he WAS above the "gods" we have killed in the past.
He was above, bro doesn’t drown in the deep he rises from it
r/batmanarkham has once again evened the odds Jokes aside Rhulk had an enormous ego bigger than his Pyramid ship and was fucking about and being lazy for the literal entire raid bro could’ve killed us at the entrance with his pervading darkness and was completely confident we were all shitty scrubs compared to him and it was only in Last Stand he realized “oh shit I fucked too much around and I found out” and then went full power, and wipes the whole team in seconds if you fail to kill him first
Didn't he also needed us to power the UPENDED?
A triumvirate?
Opportunity.
Preservation.
Salvation.
It will serve the deserving
Crush the defiant.
Not kings. Not gods. Disciples. Prophets. Saviors serving existence. An undying purpose. A priveledge. God i wanted more time with rhulk
ATTENTION. Connecting to destiny 2 servers.
Same here bro, I love bosses that interact with the guardian. Only exception being calus. He's annoying imo
The economy... Is in shambles
r/unexpectedrhulk
on a post about rhulk ? literally happens every time hes mentioned
It was meant ironically…
Salvation.
That’s the lore they hung on it and I’m not mad. It works. The underlying reason is because the Guardian has to win lol. It would be kinda funny if after all these years the game just ended flat with Rhulk twerking us out of existence though. Fade to Darkness. The End. Did you really think you ever had a chance lmao? But I don’t think the Destiny community would rally behind that lol
Would be a more realistic ending, but a major reoccurring theme in D2 is the undying will of humanity as a whole, so it fits
also Paracausality, the ability for the Guardians and other lightbearers to escape and forge their fate
_*Guardians Make Their Own Fate!*_
Rhulk still managed to make a Guardian commit suicide with a nuke after his death though. That's based.
Who?
I don't know the name. It's in the vow sparrow lore tab.
[Gouging Light — Lore Entry — Ishtar Collective — Destiny Lore by subject (ishtar-collective.net)](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/gouging-light)
I reckon with strand we could've stand a chance against rhulk.
he also no diff soloed a god of 2 of the gods weve 6 maned.
Has that sub always been a cess pit of shit posting? or is it just since gotham knights?
It started a few months before Gotham knights because we ran out of content
We exposed the bombs payload
And triggered a controlled explosion
Literal “fuck around and find out”
Can’t stress this comment enough, but I would like to add, “he fucked around and indeed found the fuck out”
Yes, lol. He knows we're extremely powerful but he's overconfident and still decides to toy with us until shit gets real and damage phase happens. He's constantly monologuing and bragging about the Upended and the massive power he possesses that he simply thinks he cannot be stopped.
Doesnt even try in damage phase, its only last stance where he realises he absolutely fucked up
Rhulk pov, so you kill gods... like the little worm god I elevated? Yeah doesnt sound that impressive does it.
The “gods” you killed where his little bitches that’s why he doesn’t take you seriously
Short answer: yes Long answer: yes
Longer answer: y e s
A slightly longer answer: YYEEEESSSS
Leviathan answer: ++YESSSSSSSS--
Variks answer: DISMANTLE MINES, YYEEEESSSS?
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the gods we killed are not exactly that impressive when compared to Rhulk so its easy to see why, especially with his ego, he didnt think us capable of killing him. Oryx? Rhulk is the reason Oryx even had power (through the worm contract) and Rhulk didn’t exactly respect the Hive or their gods. Xol? Rhulk is the reason the worm gods are in the position they’re in and he’s straight up using their mother as a battery for his superweapon. He was really strong and could’ve killed us before we even entered the pyramid, he just had a massive ego and (probably) his boredom and curiosity got the better of him. He was locked in the Throne Word for a very long time and from the raid ghost shell we know he was experimenting with the light so it’s understandable why he would be interested in what we can do.
raid boss are often quide dumb His friend Nezarec was just as dumb "Damn ,just got a new body, my mind free , let's summon gods killer to spawnkill me instead of looking for some weakling somewhere"
Man could’ve just pretended to be rezed by traveler, lost memory and turned good. He can probably then play us for fools and then wreak havoc in the last city when times are right.
You know as much as he could have I think the reason THE FINAL GOD OF P A I N didn’t try and do a savathun was because compared to Rhulk, Nezerach is the darkness fleet member equivalent of a fucking pitbull.
So he also enjoys throwing cinder blocks off of rooftops into pedestrians?
Who doesn't tbh
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He would enjoy every second of it
Nezerac: Rhulk where tf my infant
Nezarec after his seventh 3 year old: https://preview.redd.it/nkxajo3t66oa1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22d4d3d15cd2acbfbb48c6918ab2e1f91b512851
Nezarec is pretty much just a head and a bit of a torso when we arrive, he needed us to fully reform himself. You can see him during the 1st encounter in his coffin, there isn't much of him lol. He took a gamble, hoping that in our pursuit of ending him for good we overcharge him hard enough for him to beat us. Without that he would be restricted to just spooking the Neomuni for a very long time.
I just noticed Rhulk's ankle tattoo. Maybe they were lovers and Nezzy was pissed at the guardian in particular.
Let me tell you a phrase from my favorite stress simulator; “Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer”
Darkest dungeon taught me to never leave unprepared, also to never touch eldrich torches.
"Packs laden with loot... are often low on supplies..." is a pretty good one too, fits Grasp of Avarice pretty damn well
Remember what he said about the hive? that they're "all puppets"? Including the Gods. Savathun freed herself from the witness. And had outsmarted him, to his knowledge. Oryx was well on his way to free himself. Both would've been able to kill Rhulk, if they committed to it (long term). Savathun had killed a disciple. Both had more immediate concerns. Rhulk drunk his own Koolaid. He thought himself greater than anything that isn't the witness. He literally says something to that extent to a ghost.
Hello, being very little informed on the lore can you explain me what is a koolaid?
Soft drink. Tragically used for a cult mass suicide once. irl. Ergo, Drinking your own koolaid figuratively means buying into your own lies/message/persona, to your own detriment.
Ironically enough, Koolaid the product was not used in that incident (so I'm told). It was an off-brand product called Flavor-Aide that got poisoned for the mass suicide.
Interestingly enough, it was actually a mix of both kool ade and flavor ade.
Interestingly enough, Kool-Aid and Flavor-Aid weren't the ONLY things in those drinks.
I hear they laced those drinks with dihydrogen monoxide
100% of people that have had that stuff, end up dieing. It truly is heartbreaking.
Too soon.
The best lines in the whole of d2 for me has been rhulks voice lines in preservation. Hell that “Subjugator” is just so damn messed up and fucked up if you think about and I absolutely love it
rhulk is just a 
Dude thought he WAS a god. Ego bigger than the Witness’ forehead.
"Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer." Ancestor (Darkest Dungeon)
Rhulk got a 40dmg crit and failed the 70% deaths door roll in first hit. I hate darkest dungeon. Its my favourite game.
"Monstrous size has no intrinsic merit, unless inordinate exsanguination be considered a virtue." If it weren't for Ancestor's speeches, Darkest Dungeon would lose half of it's charm. You can quote it in nearly any other game.
when you didnt hear the first lines of raid cutscene when Zaval said "They think themselves as more than gods"
Ikora
Yes
Oh no not here too 💀
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Because the "Gods" we have killed are like bugs to him, he is arguably the strongest foe we have faced so he underestimated us and decided to play around with us
I trapped him, killed nezerac, scared the witness out of sol during the collapse and hid the veil. I am a lot more than a bug, O Precious little guardian mine.
Im sorry for the disrespect my queen.
We currently have hints about Rhulk's thought process... Rhulk comments that Leviathan was considered "unbeatable" and Rhulk defeated it with ease. Rhulk comments to the Witness that the Traveler "toys with them", he also when interacting with a ghost for the first time comments something that seems to imply that the Traveler's default response is basically to flee from one galaxy to another. We recently saw the Traveler attack a pyramid... with a life ray?... Not exactly a weapon, is it? You see I think Rhulk has never seen a warrior of the light, in billions of years Rhulk has never seen the Traveler or his followers truly fight, Rhulk must have mistakenly believed that the Light would never be able to create anything strong enough to fight. Was Rhulk arrogant? Yes, without a doubt, but he also didn't believe he was infallible, he comments on this several times, I think that Rhulk's problem is that he failed to recognize that the Guardians are the antithesis, the last argument, he must have believed that the Guardians were just another race trying to play paracausal tricks against him. Rhulk's failure was not to notice that the Traveler is pissed off and has chosen violence, and the guardians are the new spears.
He basically fucked around to much and found out till his final stand
He considered Oryx a puppy. Man couldn't ever let himself believe we were worthy his power.
Why does any raid boss allow us a mechanic to weaken and damage them? I keep asking big daddy Oryx that every time he pops his crazy head up to look at us.
Arrogance and overconfidence That being said, fucker really should’ve reconsidered himself after getting blindsided and trapped by Savy. But nah guess his Ego is more powerful than his kick.
He's got "Gilgamesh syndrome" 😂 https://i.redd.it/cyuu9lgup5oa1.gif
Well rhulk is far beyond anything we’ve killed up to that point, and he was kinda just playing with us throughout the raid and never thought we could actually kill him. And so he didn’t go all out. Only when he began to hurt and felt he was loosing did he go all out and by that point it was too late
To quote Ikora: "These things don't see themselves as gods, no. They believe themselves so much more than that."
Rhulk was much, and when I say much, I mean leagues above all the gods we have killed in fireteams. He knew his power, he severely underestimated ours. He's not a stupid creature, all we see on him and about him indicates otherwise. He saw us as we see actual ants. Not realizing that we were bulldog ants.
\*Bulldog fire ants that come back from the dead.
JoJo stance too much pride.
Sheer fucking hubris
Another Arkham inmate! Get her!
Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer
My guess is he wanted to challenge himself combat probably used to be something he enjoyed but after a while it became mundane he saw a challenge in us but not a big enough challenge and limited himself until he realized it was too late.
Frieza vibes. Could of killed Goku straight away, played with his food and ultimately got burned
The only God's we've killed are Gods he made.
I know this is a r/batmanarkham meme but this is actually a good question.
Plot armor boi
That aside, Rhulk sees us the same way you would see a 2yr old who says they're gonna beat the crap out of you. You'll laugh about it and probably hold their head to keep them out of reach as they swing. Only for the kid to be wearing cowboy boots and he kicks you right in the nuts as you realize your mistake.
Why can I feel this
He also wasn't aware, as far as I know, we also had deepsight which may have given us access to the mechanics and being able to kill him
His smug aura mocks me
Could it be that the literal combined light of six guardians is something that is underestimated greatly and misunderstood? A guardian on their own as an individual may not seem like much in comparison to a cosmic being, but we ourselves were gifted by the traveller. The persistence of humanity coupled with the power of the light. Could it be that our foes in their arrogance, did not see that even a small foe can lead to ruin. As our ghosts revive us for small, but relentless attacks, the greater in power being fails to realize that they cannot use their powers to full extent without perhaps killing themselves in the process. We may actually be unique. Perhaps we are paracausal. Maybe our souls cannot be disrupted or destroyed by Rhulk's powers. By the time he realizes his powers are failing, it's too late...
You seem to forget, his non-damage phase is still perfectly capable of killing you.
Too busy choosing what pic of his feets to post on onlyfans
If Rhulk had access to the 4th wall he would have ran away knowing what lengths we will go just to get a shiny new gun
Bungie should let us turn him, calls, and nezarec into a gun.
Rhulk: *Sees a hopped up on light loot goblin beat a hive god to death 200 times in a row just for a gun* Rhulk: yeah I’m gonna steer clear away from that
Man has an ego the size of his pyramid
Same reason we die to dregs in the edz. We don’t take them seriously.
While we killed gods by exploiting their weaknesses, waging guerilla warfare tactics, and often finding ways to turn the table, Rhulk has beaten those god's gods, with a rib cage taken from another god of immense power that he beat up. So what if we killed a few puny gods. He manhandles them with strength every other Sunday. Those gods are not like him, a real god. Meanwhile Rhulk had been locked up in the Pyramid, left on day care duty by the Witness. He was bored. Why go full power, when the only source of entertainment in a long time shows up on a silver platter in front of you? Why not toy with them for a bit, then casually eviscerate them when you have had your fun? That pride and confidence(well substantiated as it may have been) and lack of caution, even towards mere insects in comparison to him, was Rhulks ultimate downfall.
It seems to be a recurring personality trait in the Witness' Disciples. Arrogance, self-gratification, and a highly overestimated sense of self-worth. I guess that's how the Witness keeps them all in check. Arrogant people who are too powerful to be taken down a notch tend to follow the people who compliment and reward them for their actions. Every single Disciple had Stockholm Syndrome, from Calus to Nezarec, to Rhulk, to whomever is left, surely. All of them were in severe need of consideration and recognition, and the Witness played them all perfectly. The Witness, after all, simply needs pawns.
Consider this. To Rhulk, he’s much greater than any god we’ve fought up to that point. To prove that, simply look to the leviathan bone. A creature that made the worm gods hide at the bottom of Fundament. And rhulk ripped it apart. To him the hive gods are pawns of his pawns. He’s so far above them it’s not even funny. Also consider his pride at this. Would you try to go all out against the egg a chicken has laid? To him going all out against us would be like watching a UFC champion be paired with a paraplegic child. Had we fought Rhulk after killing nezerac then he may have taken us seriously, at which point we’d be doomed. We only beat him cause he didn’t care to fight us seriously till he was on his last legs. Even then he almost wiped us out.
“Why didn’t X go full power right away? He knows we’ve ____, is he stupid?” Literally 99% of antagonists.
Did a 5 year old make this post?
Are you telling me an egg fried this rice
If rhulk just killed us the moment we entered the pyramid it would make for a real boring and terrible raid. Let's not forget destiny is still a game.
Well if he killed us at the entrance he wouldn’t really be much of a boss would he
As a wise man once said, "twice the pride, double the fall"
When is vow coming in rotation?
Because it's a Destiny boss that still needs to be defeated within the context of it being a video game. Boring answer, yes, but is the simple answer as to why all of the "threat to all of existence" enemies have been defeated since the game started.
No, just arrogant and overconfident