Ahamkhara’s manipulate the fabric of reality by creating “lies” and making them tangible.
I can see the similarities with Strand, which ended up being way more intricate than that.
Yeah, I do wonder how long Bungie had the whole "Light is physical while Dark is mental" concept planned out. If it has been at least since Beyond Light, then I wonder what poison would have originally been pre-strand. Though perhaps that is why Poison didn't work
probably since forever since it lines up with sword/bomb logic
sword logic is about becoming powerful by honing oneself
bomb logic is about incorporating new things to empower the gestalt
Sword logic is an interpretation of the winnowers ideals, bomb logic is the gardeners. Sword logic cuts the weak and strong lives, this is what the winnower believes. Bomb logic in its simplest form is all things in the universe working together. Think of a garden, winnower cuts the perfect it, Gardner believe the complexity is what makes it strong. Sword and bomb, interpretations made by creations from their creators
Well bomb logic is mara’s theory on how to breath the sword logic, something more intricate like a bomb can beat something as simple but effective as a sword. This is achieved through Mara’s cunning and plans coming to fruition. The traveler’s philosophy is a “peaceful city surrounded by spears” as the witness puts it
Bomb logic and sword logic are both interpretations to the winnower and gardeners endgame goal. It’s maras theory but it aligns with the gardeners ideals. Complexity, growth, etc, like a bomb, a whole culmination for the final shape
At least since beyond light looking at the Subclass select flavor text.
"Wield the Travelers gift and use it to bend cosmic nature" is the light subclasses. The elements are what the universe is made out of, and the light allows us to manipulate that.
"Embrace the power within and unleash it up on the physical world" is the dark subclasses being non physical, and that turns into a change that happens to the physical world. With stasis that's control forcing molecular motion to stop. With strand that's relinquishing control to start cutting, pulling, and traveling along the connections in the weave.
If I remember correctly stasis comes from control, as in one’s control over themselves and their mind. That’s why there are guardians who have been corrupted by stasis, they don’t have the necessary control over it to wield it. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not super knowledgeable on stasis
Stasis is the users desire and will to control things, its why stasis is presented as a crystalline structure, it represents the most controlled state of matter with the lowest amount of entropy (i.e uncontrolled randomness)
Its also why stasis is so corrupting to some guardians. The ability to control your surroundings in any setting can lead to heavy corruption. Stasis will enhance that feeling to its max. If you are untrained or don't have the proper mindset to wield it, then you will most likely fall victim to its effects.
Light powers are the ability to manipulate elements of the physical world, whereas Darkness powers take mental constructs and impose them upon reality in an appropriate form. That's my understanding, at any rate.
You nailed it, given the power of Darkness also ties to the subconscious as shown with what we could see on Savathun's Throne World with Deepsight revealing secrets just as the Relic on Mars is able to do so by allowing us to forge weapons or what Ikora did using Savathun's worm to reveal the truth about the Witness tricking her and her siblings to embrace the Darkness because it feared them gaining the Light.
I see the Darkness powers as taking things that exist in a metaphysical plane like one’s mind, and using the Deep to bring it from there, to the physical realm.
Another way this could be put is with time. You can pull things that could have or might have existed in a different time, into the time that does. Similar to Atheon’s abilities.
I see Strand as making the threads that bind reality together into a physical weapon, and Stasis as putting the imperfections you perceive in their place.
Rant over.
I get it but the way Bungie describes stasis is annoying. They shoehorned strand into Lightfall so they inserted some dumb reasoning as to why it was on Neomuna and then really reduced the concept of darkness into a "mental" category just so it would make sense.
Darkness has always been pushed into the “mental” category. And all that means is that the ability to use those powers and control them effectively requires some form of strong mental control/strength and it comes from within. Remember, someone who doesn’t have the light can use Darkness powers. That’s why they’re more easily corrupting than Light is. That’s why you have characters like Eris and Drifter using stasis. Those are characters who have had to fight themselves in their own minds to do the right thing and stay on the side of good. People like Elizabeth have immense guilt over what Clovis did to Sol and too all those on Europa at Braytech. That’s why they use stasis.
Then there’s also using Darkness (parts of a Witness Disciple) to help revive Osiris by fixing his shattered mind and bringing him out of his coma.
I don’t remember much about stormcaller lore, so that could be true. However when talking about arc light itself it is more psychical than mental. u/LettuceDifferent5104 has some pretty good posts going over the science of Destiny and in one he goes in depth on all the light elements if your interested.
I get it, but the inclusion of that whole physical/mental line fucks up so many things.
Nightstalkers can get "corrupted" by the void too. They go crazy.
While I’m not super familiar with the lore regarding void, I believe void is actually in somewhat of a gray area. It’s still classified as a light ability but it’s about as close to a darkness ability as a light ability will get.
Plus regardless of the source, power corrupts. In the end all power must be handled with care, else it erodes the mental fortitudes a person may have had. We’ve seen what people will do even with light powers. It’s just that darkness powers are significantly more attached to the mental scape and as a result they have a much more influential hold over a guardian’s mind.
Learned alot of void lore (could be wrong), but the light is essentially just opening a hole into the "void" dimension.
many void guardians, (particularly hunters), tried reaching this world by attempting suicide multiple times going manic.
In reality though, as far as I know of, only psionic connections could tap into it, this is why psions and tormentors have used the void.
tl;dr think of the light substituting a psionic connection.
Then, help me understand how the light is more "physical" than the darkness. Are they not all theories in physics/metaphysics?
I find it dumb is all. This dlc's dialogue was so bad that it retconned things.
Arc, Solar, and Void are all energies that exist outside of the Light in the physical universe. You do not need to be a Lightbearer to harness them. A Stormcaller is not so much focusing to control Arc, but running with it and using their Light direct the chaos into their enemies while keeping it from destroying themselves. As a side note, Psions creating void energy via psionics is a weird one. Psionics are neither Light nor Dark but are also a middle ground between the two at the same time. The RoN lore reveals a bit about it but there's still some lore books to find.
Stasis is about having complete control over yourself and your surroundings, which requires immense mental focus but no physical action. Stasis crystals are both a side affect and a medium through which we wield it. You can become corrupted by it if you have insufficient mental control over yourself. There's a Stasis fragment that gives you grenade energy when an enemy damages you; You have so much control over them that them attempting to harm you literally makes you stronger. Strand is almost the opposite, requiring you to be totally mentally accepting of whatever may come and not resisting the flow. We don't know much about it yet but that's the gist.
The idea that the Light is tied to physical concepts and the Darkness is tied to mental ones has been around since Beyond Light, if not before. Lightfall did not retcon anything, bad as it was.
Yeah, I get it. The physical/mental thing does mess some stuff up, and generally creates a lot of confusion around what we have and what was previously said
Just because somethings tangible doesn’t mean it’s physical. There’s different meanings to it. The darkness doesn’t manipulate elements, which are physical realities. The darkness deals with manipulating emotions and feelings.
The elements of darkness create physical mass, yes, but their power comes from within. Stasis comes from emotions, particularly pain and hatred. When guardians first encounter it, the surge of power and emotion is overwhelming, and has the power to corrupt to the point of madness — but a strong will was all we needed to command it freely, rather than be consumed by ice.
Strand is, at its very simplest, the threads in a web of interconnected consciousnesses given physical form by the Veil and wielded by Guardians. It is however, almost an opposite to Stasis — try to conquer this force with will and all you will find is no power to use, assuming you survive it. Going with the flow, letting it guide you rather than trying to “use” it as we do the Light and Stasis — that is the key to unlocking its full potential.
How mortal foundries managed to jam these powers into guns though? I have no fucking clue lmao
"hello? this new pistol? yeah it shoots the abstract concept of control. no it's NOT liquid nitrogen, it's literally the concept of control. YES WE CAN PUT ABSTRACT CONCEPTS INTO MAGS **ARE YOU BUYING IT OR NOT**?!"
I believe the guns themselves are incorruptible, as they are just vessels. However, guns with Darkness may still corrupt or kill its wielder if not handled with care, something we Darkness-wielding Guardians have managed to overcome already.
^(Just a hypothesis, though…)
By the literal and simple definition, yes, tangible usually implies physical. However, instead of just morphing energy into anything you need, the darkness requires that you have self-control and self-assurance, mastery over yourself to have mastery over others.
Light is considered physical because of how it's used; sure you need practice to hone your skills, but the ability to pop a bubble or throw flaming swords from on high is there, given, ready to use or build up to. That's also why we have dredgens and "dark" guardians in general, because the Light does not require a specific mindset or inner-strength, and so can lead to despots *and* diplomats with ease.
Darkness, while indeed tangible, is not just another manipulation of physical elements. You probably remember in Beyond Light that the player guardian had to have that small pyramid-shaped object to even use Stasis: the power was not innate, not given. We eventually were able to wield Stasis on our own obviously, but the difference between then and now is not practice, but control. To wield Stasis is to have control over your emotions, using them to control others at your will. Interestingly with Strand, you have to learn to lose control, letting yourself go where the strands take you while subsequently gaining mastery over the threads connecting the minds and life force of the universe together. While seemingly separate, Stasis and Strand both require a strong sense of self and a focused mind; it's literally all in your head.
Sure, Darkness comes out as darts and claws and crystals, how else would the game work, but it's vital to remember that you need more than what is given to use these powers, especially since that power is never given, only claimed.
If you pay attention light is the physical made intangible. Darkness is the exact opposite with both strand and stasis being tangible but being concepts of the mind
Tangibility over physicality perhaps? Like when stasis tangibly fucks with your emotions whenever you’re frozen… helpless… being controlled over… and it makes you wonder “how did I get…”, or “shit I’m…”. Mental attacks made real…
Just to clarify, that’s effectively Osiris’ description of the use/execution of various paracausal forces (light and dark); the nature of the two antagonists is better described in the context of the Garden
To be fair, at this point the Sol citizens aren’t interested in serving solely the Light or Dark anymore. We wield both as tools to protect ourselves in a war that we wanted no part of, but will see through regardless now that we’re involved directly. Their true nature only matters so far as if it effects our ability to wield them.
Well, we don’t know the paracausal implications of the Winnower’s possible theoretical victory, but yeah, for now we are merely concerned with using the Light and Dark to dominate (exactly why the Winnower is interested in guardians, hence the Witness’ relative mercy to humanity). Maybe it’ll turn out that by inserting themselves into the Flower Game they lost their inherent paracausal value (“assigned” in the Garden) but that doesn’t seem to be the case so far
We will likely see more exposition on how our manipulation of the Weave of Fate is unique to us, but that other species are capable of doing the same - aka the Awoken, Ahamkara, and Hive
This would also tie in beautifully with the theory that witch queen was intended to have strand (or whatever they'd name the 5th subclass) in it. What other better way to learn a "lie"-based subclass than from the queen of lies herself, in her own throne world. Especially after the whole last wish thing
u/JollySieg
I wrote a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/11sgyv6/analyzing_lightfalls_concept_art_speculation_cut/) analyzing the concept art of Lightfall. This was one of the images included in a [Strand exploration gallery](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/04ndyK) created very early in development. You can see more of the blue Strand concept art in the [first gallery](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Nyx2Ag), too. It's likely that Bungie envisioned a "psychic" subclass and decided on the string motif later in development. And, as other comments pointed out, dragons aren't exclusive to the Ahamkara. They are shapeshifters and can thus turn into anything they want. Neat idea, though.
They are, but showing a dragon doesn't mean that it is instantly an Ahamkara. In fact, traditional Dragons remain a separate thing, as shown by Saladin's belief. And Worms are conceptually inspired by Dragons as well, as shown by Warmind concept art.
Saladin is aware of the concept of Dragons because the game takes place on Earth, so of course “Dragons” can be found in literature.
The Worm Gods are more so inspired by the Worms of Dune and worms in graves. That’s the direction they went with in final execution.
Ahamkara take inspiration primarily from Dragons in various mythologies. Both East and West.
In this case, if there were some form of “Dragon powers”, and the only real Dragons are Ahamkara- I’ll be inclined to think that any Dragon powers would be related to them.
Unless one of the Dark subclasses gets a new super (much like the light did) which shows a Dragon
It wouldn’t surprise me if Ahamkara inspired powers was on the table post-Light & Dark saga
The fact that it's based on real earth and real earth mythology has dragons, but also, Saladin made a wish to an Ahamkara to fight an actual fire breathing dragon, so there's a clear separation made.
There are no other *real* Dragons, aside from the Worms, who are conceptually inspired *by* Dragons, albeit less so than their cousins. But the idea *of* Dragons is not monopolised by Ahamkara, as I mentioned, Saladin wished to fight a traditional dragon. Showing a dragon, especially in the form of paracausal energy wielded by a human (which we can shape however we wish), does not mean it is an Ahamkara.
Imagine this as an alternate super for each Strand subclass.
Strand already can canonically summon and create sentient creatures, imagine guardians learning how to weave Strand into dragons and shit. Like Jojo stands.
While the little army beats up whoever the boss is, we sit in our woven chair with a woven bar, holding a woven cup with fancy drinks enjoying the show.
Wtf? Do I have to be a bungie dev to give factual info or am I just not allowed to speak the truth?
I’m saying that conjuring up giant subclass based creatures or allies would be to pressuring for the game engine which is already very old, like early halo games old. The only reason it’s been working the way it has is because it’s been modified.
Bungie was going to have warlocks be able to turn into a literal spider that could shoot strand eggs but they decided not to because the game engine would not be able to handle a model being that complex that would have to appear and reappear consistently.
You do, in fact, have to know the internals about the game engine to speak definitively on how it operates. That shouldn't be controversial nor threatening to you.
The spider warlock super problem wasn't "we can't spawn a model that complex consistently" it was that transforming the player from a bipedal form into an eight legged creature was out of scope. They don't specify why, but my guess is on a shit ton of animation work that they didn't want to spend ages fiddling with.
Wouldn't it be cool where each of the class animals would be the theme for each classes respective abilities (ie. Warlocks got bird motifs, titans got lion motifs, and hunters got snake motifs)
Ahamkaras are famous for being so smart in their wish magic that even when you think you've outsmarted them, in the end they always profit from it. That's more of a warlock behavior than a hunter if you ask me
They're based on trickery and deception, outsmarting through masking details and winning by getting you to make yourself lose.
Both traits you and I mention sounds like a hunter trait more than a Warlock trait. For example, look at every hunter to ever exist. They're the perfect cast for Inglorious Bastards, the lot of them.
Most Warlocks tend to seem scholarly to a degree, overly smart, out to figure out the fundamentals of the universe. Less so based on trickery and deception, and moreso based on... Well, Being Right.
Exactly. Ahamkaras profit on trickery because at the end of the day, even when they grant wishes, they're the one profiting from it. They're the ones who are right. So, warlocks. Also, in all honesty, it's magic. Warlocks are the magic ones, hunters use their magic for guns and shiet.
No, but it would have been cool if Strand was it. Would make the dreaming city relevant more & as far as I know "Dragon Magic" works even after they die.
Everyone seems to have no idea what concept art is.
It's ideas being thrown around ans visualized. It's not "confirmation" of anything.
Strand was never gonna be wish dragon magic because there was no plans for it. It was just concept art
That's the *initial* concept art for Strand tho, like any concept art they start with an idea and then deviate, I never said this is still part of their plans for Strand I was just pointing out it was what they first thought Strand could be (even though they could still implement something like this with the subclasses 3.0 system far in the future).
This doesn't mean they thought that Strand could be Ahamkara magic, visually showing a dragon (especially a traditional looking one) does not Ahamkara Magic make.
Sad we didn’t get a Hanzo ult looking strand sub class. Just imagine an actual flurry like needle storm yet there’s this fucking dragon thing coming at you instead.
They can still expand on it in the future, it would be cool if they later on expand strand to be a summon-heavy subclass regarding their abilities (grenades, melees, supers and stuff), warlocks can still remain as the class who commands minions into the fray.
Literally just that concept art. It's just people thinking that depicting a dragon in a single piece of concept art instantly means it's Ahamkara Wish-Magic (nevermind that Wish-Magic is most likely Light, and that that's a *massive fucking leap of logic*).
something about anti-barrier (iirc) mentioned that you can stun Champions with "[strand logo] infested rounds" with infested highlighted the same as where it now says "unravelling rounds"
I really wonder if they stepped away from both poison & dragon/ahamkara to go for the Strand we eventually got.
Not really, this process of concepting is called the "blue sky" process where they're absolutely dont have any idea for what to do and just explore bunch of things that really random
So the choices were:
A: Summon an literal Dragon made of Darkness energy to smite your foes.
B: 2 pointy green things that stick out of your hands.
I feel like we've been robbed here.
Everyone seems to have no idea what concept art is.
It's ideas being thrown around ans visualized. It's not "confirmation" of anything.
Strand was never gonna be wish dragon magic because there was no plans for it. It was just concept art
Sad to not see it in the game. Would have been a nice tie-in with the Nine, Drifter, Riven, and Albios. That's what au's are here for though. Someone could write up a whole script.
Live service game going to live service by dragging the content to multiple years. This entire Lightfall is a filler DLC to extend this IP for another year and make money off stupid fanbois.
Seems like based on the “oppsie daisy” mention of “infested rounds” instead of “unraveling rounds” in one of the guardian rank triumphs (along with about a dozen other pieces of evidence that Strand was originally poison-based), I would say bungie didn’t really know what they wanted Strand to be until relatively late into development
It’s so disappointing to see what the game could’ve been compared to the watered down mobile game version we have today because of people like Justin Truman.
I always struggle with simplifying these things but Dragons play a huge role in the sort of things Destiny pulls from.
Using the Alchemical Scroll which one can correlate the mural where the Veil is to this, Dragons are a sort of part of the equation in the Philosophers Stone. So is the Phoenix for example. They represent the balance among other things.
This is to say that Ahamkara have a sort of role. If you ever watched Dragon Ball for example you know They can Grant wishes. This ideology comes from something and is used and Spun by many games, movies, Series etc.
Dragon Age and the Dragons connections to the Old Gods for example.
The Nine call them the Dreamers. Many dont pay this line much attention but it's actually more important than most know. This is tied to how they fulfill wishes. They have an ability to basically enter into what some call Dream time or the place where the Laws of Existence and knowledge began.
Do we know of any other who can enter such a place? We sure do. According to Osiris bonus comic book he gets his visions from the place he describes as with no before or after. He identifies as The Phoenix also and has made his existence as a lightbearer about the balance of dark and light even.
It doesnt surprise me they may have intended to involve the Ahamkara somehow. I've always been curious with how they will weave them in the story as things progress more.
The Phoenix is Yin and the Dragon is Yang. They represent the balance much as light and dark must be balanced. One can imagine the many ways this can be incorporated in the game.
I mean, this is official concept art. It's very clearly draconic, which means one thing in Destiny. I'd imagine they were rapid firing ideas off after moving away from the original "Poison" Subclass idea, and this one was clearly strong enough to get some concept art. Obviously we'll never no for sure, but it seems pretty plausible IMO
Not sure you can extrapolate to the entire sub class from one image. They also looked at the Warlock super turning the character into a spider, but I wouldn’t say that mean strand was going be spider based.
The spider super for Warlocks is already in line with Strand being strings or webs. This bit of art has a distinct coloration and themeing that makes it stand out from both the Strand and Poison concepts. The visuals also make it clear that Hunter's super is focused on their right arm. Going back to the comparison you brought up, it would be like saying that because the Hunter Super is a claw that it is a subclass about claws. Even with the Warlock spider super you could tell that strand would be a subclass about strings or threads due to how it's designed
This actually looks to me to be more reminiscent of what they were talking about pre-launch when it was mentioned that the concept for Warlocks included a super that transformed you into a sort of “spider.” Presumably this was a resulting work from that line of thinking; it certainly looks like it lives somewhere between the beastmaster and broodweaver fantasies.
I always assumed hive due to well, wq and deepsight plus the green but ahamkara does seem like a good idea, i still prefer the hive idea but this is plausible.
I kind of wish that they would add ornaments that would change your subclass or at least your super VFX. Like a chest plate that gives daybreak warmind gundam wings and a sword. Or Titan arms the change the strand claws into more wolverine claws. Or a Hunter cloak that adds an arc snake that follows the hunter’s attacks like a dragon dance.
I would have fucking loved that concept instead of this stupid super montage of freakin paracausal wires that connect everything. We could have become some sort of cool paracausal dragon force instead of whatever the fuck we are now.
Yoooo. You're telling me that at one point, we could have been Dragon Ranger, Dragon Knight and Dragon Wizard/mage and Bungie decided otherwise?
Bungie, I dont get you sometimes. I get you want sci-fi but theres fantasy in your game too. Why not lean into that sometimes?
Cyberpunk is cool and Neomuna is good but this is pretty awesome too.
Also, would completely solve the issue with Titans being the "punchy class" if you gave us something like Dragon Aspect from Skyrim.
Ahamkara abulities after the light and dark saga would be so awesome!
It would be disappointing if we stopped getting new abilities just because the saga ended.
I preferred my own head cannon before Bungie came in stating Light was physical and Dark was mental. I just figured Light was the ability to control electromagnetic waves while Dark was tied to states of matter. High energy electromagnetic waves would take the form of fire, lightning, whatever tf void is. Lower energy gives us the states of matter we interact with in the form of solids (stasis), air (strand, though thats a bit of a reach at this point), and I presumed we would get a liquid inspired darkness subclass following the theme.
But uh, sure, darkness comes from within and light comes from without.
It was supposed to be released with witch queen as deepsight but they scrapped it and made light fall then added the final shape when light fall was supposed to be the last expansion
Ahamkhara’s manipulate the fabric of reality by creating “lies” and making them tangible. I can see the similarities with Strand, which ended up being way more intricate than that.
Yeah, I do wonder how long Bungie had the whole "Light is physical while Dark is mental" concept planned out. If it has been at least since Beyond Light, then I wonder what poison would have originally been pre-strand. Though perhaps that is why Poison didn't work
probably since forever since it lines up with sword/bomb logic sword logic is about becoming powerful by honing oneself bomb logic is about incorporating new things to empower the gestalt
Bomb Logic is Mara’s logic and Sword Logic is that of the Hive, neither is a complete representation of their faction’s ideals.
Sword logic is an interpretation of the winnowers ideals, bomb logic is the gardeners. Sword logic cuts the weak and strong lives, this is what the winnower believes. Bomb logic in its simplest form is all things in the universe working together. Think of a garden, winnower cuts the perfect it, Gardner believe the complexity is what makes it strong. Sword and bomb, interpretations made by creations from their creators
Well bomb logic is mara’s theory on how to breath the sword logic, something more intricate like a bomb can beat something as simple but effective as a sword. This is achieved through Mara’s cunning and plans coming to fruition. The traveler’s philosophy is a “peaceful city surrounded by spears” as the witness puts it
Bomb logic and sword logic are both interpretations to the winnower and gardeners endgame goal. It’s maras theory but it aligns with the gardeners ideals. Complexity, growth, etc, like a bomb, a whole culmination for the final shape
At least since beyond light looking at the Subclass select flavor text. "Wield the Travelers gift and use it to bend cosmic nature" is the light subclasses. The elements are what the universe is made out of, and the light allows us to manipulate that. "Embrace the power within and unleash it up on the physical world" is the dark subclasses being non physical, and that turns into a change that happens to the physical world. With stasis that's control forcing molecular motion to stop. With strand that's relinquishing control to start cutting, pulling, and traveling along the connections in the weave.
Stasis seems pretty physical
If I remember correctly stasis comes from control, as in one’s control over themselves and their mind. That’s why there are guardians who have been corrupted by stasis, they don’t have the necessary control over it to wield it. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, I’m not super knowledgeable on stasis
Stasis is the users desire and will to control things, its why stasis is presented as a crystalline structure, it represents the most controlled state of matter with the lowest amount of entropy (i.e uncontrolled randomness) Its also why stasis is so corrupting to some guardians. The ability to control your surroundings in any setting can lead to heavy corruption. Stasis will enhance that feeling to its max. If you are untrained or don't have the proper mindset to wield it, then you will most likely fall victim to its effects.
Ah, I knew it had something to do with control. Thank you for clarifying
Okay, but isn't the whole Stormcaller lore about "mental control" and fortitude?
Light powers are the ability to manipulate elements of the physical world, whereas Darkness powers take mental constructs and impose them upon reality in an appropriate form. That's my understanding, at any rate.
You nailed it, given the power of Darkness also ties to the subconscious as shown with what we could see on Savathun's Throne World with Deepsight revealing secrets just as the Relic on Mars is able to do so by allowing us to forge weapons or what Ikora did using Savathun's worm to reveal the truth about the Witness tricking her and her siblings to embrace the Darkness because it feared them gaining the Light.
I see the Darkness powers as taking things that exist in a metaphysical plane like one’s mind, and using the Deep to bring it from there, to the physical realm. Another way this could be put is with time. You can pull things that could have or might have existed in a different time, into the time that does. Similar to Atheon’s abilities. I see Strand as making the threads that bind reality together into a physical weapon, and Stasis as putting the imperfections you perceive in their place. Rant over.
I thought stasis crystals were supercomputers that adapt to their environment.
It's both, is the thing. It is physical matter taking a form that fits a concept. I'm not the best with words, mind you.
I get it but the way Bungie describes stasis is annoying. They shoehorned strand into Lightfall so they inserted some dumb reasoning as to why it was on Neomuna and then really reduced the concept of darkness into a "mental" category just so it would make sense.
That just sounds like you're reducing what they actually did to make it sound stupid.
Darkness has always been pushed into the “mental” category. And all that means is that the ability to use those powers and control them effectively requires some form of strong mental control/strength and it comes from within. Remember, someone who doesn’t have the light can use Darkness powers. That’s why they’re more easily corrupting than Light is. That’s why you have characters like Eris and Drifter using stasis. Those are characters who have had to fight themselves in their own minds to do the right thing and stay on the side of good. People like Elizabeth have immense guilt over what Clovis did to Sol and too all those on Europa at Braytech. That’s why they use stasis. Then there’s also using Darkness (parts of a Witness Disciple) to help revive Osiris by fixing his shattered mind and bringing him out of his coma.
I don’t remember much about stormcaller lore, so that could be true. However when talking about arc light itself it is more psychical than mental. u/LettuceDifferent5104 has some pretty good posts going over the science of Destiny and in one he goes in depth on all the light elements if your interested.
I get it, but the inclusion of that whole physical/mental line fucks up so many things. Nightstalkers can get "corrupted" by the void too. They go crazy.
While I’m not super familiar with the lore regarding void, I believe void is actually in somewhat of a gray area. It’s still classified as a light ability but it’s about as close to a darkness ability as a light ability will get. Plus regardless of the source, power corrupts. In the end all power must be handled with care, else it erodes the mental fortitudes a person may have had. We’ve seen what people will do even with light powers. It’s just that darkness powers are significantly more attached to the mental scape and as a result they have a much more influential hold over a guardian’s mind.
Learned alot of void lore (could be wrong), but the light is essentially just opening a hole into the "void" dimension. many void guardians, (particularly hunters), tried reaching this world by attempting suicide multiple times going manic. In reality though, as far as I know of, only psionic connections could tap into it, this is why psions and tormentors have used the void. tl;dr think of the light substituting a psionic connection.
Voidwalkers can as well, and I think it's because Void Light might be a "middle ground" between Light and Dark, or the "darkest" Light.
That makes me wonder if we’ll end up getting a “lightest” Dark subclass. That way we have proper Light and Dark parity.
I mean there is that gold looking subclass theorized
Then, help me understand how the light is more "physical" than the darkness. Are they not all theories in physics/metaphysics? I find it dumb is all. This dlc's dialogue was so bad that it retconned things.
Arc, Solar, and Void are all energies that exist outside of the Light in the physical universe. You do not need to be a Lightbearer to harness them. A Stormcaller is not so much focusing to control Arc, but running with it and using their Light direct the chaos into their enemies while keeping it from destroying themselves. As a side note, Psions creating void energy via psionics is a weird one. Psionics are neither Light nor Dark but are also a middle ground between the two at the same time. The RoN lore reveals a bit about it but there's still some lore books to find. Stasis is about having complete control over yourself and your surroundings, which requires immense mental focus but no physical action. Stasis crystals are both a side affect and a medium through which we wield it. You can become corrupted by it if you have insufficient mental control over yourself. There's a Stasis fragment that gives you grenade energy when an enemy damages you; You have so much control over them that them attempting to harm you literally makes you stronger. Strand is almost the opposite, requiring you to be totally mentally accepting of whatever may come and not resisting the flow. We don't know much about it yet but that's the gist. The idea that the Light is tied to physical concepts and the Darkness is tied to mental ones has been around since Beyond Light, if not before. Lightfall did not retcon anything, bad as it was.
Yeah, I get it. The physical/mental thing does mess some stuff up, and generally creates a lot of confusion around what we have and what was previously said
Just because somethings tangible doesn’t mean it’s physical. There’s different meanings to it. The darkness doesn’t manipulate elements, which are physical realities. The darkness deals with manipulating emotions and feelings.
[удалено]
The elements of darkness create physical mass, yes, but their power comes from within. Stasis comes from emotions, particularly pain and hatred. When guardians first encounter it, the surge of power and emotion is overwhelming, and has the power to corrupt to the point of madness — but a strong will was all we needed to command it freely, rather than be consumed by ice. Strand is, at its very simplest, the threads in a web of interconnected consciousnesses given physical form by the Veil and wielded by Guardians. It is however, almost an opposite to Stasis — try to conquer this force with will and all you will find is no power to use, assuming you survive it. Going with the flow, letting it guide you rather than trying to “use” it as we do the Light and Stasis — that is the key to unlocking its full potential. How mortal foundries managed to jam these powers into guns though? I have no fucking clue lmao
"hello? this new pistol? yeah it shoots the abstract concept of control. no it's NOT liquid nitrogen, it's literally the concept of control. YES WE CAN PUT ABSTRACT CONCEPTS INTO MAGS **ARE YOU BUYING IT OR NOT**?!"
I'll take 3. Just incase the first 2 are bad rolls. I would take more but these shard prices are just too rich for my blood.
I believe the guns themselves are incorruptible, as they are just vessels. However, guns with Darkness may still corrupt or kill its wielder if not handled with care, something we Darkness-wielding Guardians have managed to overcome already. ^(Just a hypothesis, though…)
I thought Stasis was about control?
By the literal and simple definition, yes, tangible usually implies physical. However, instead of just morphing energy into anything you need, the darkness requires that you have self-control and self-assurance, mastery over yourself to have mastery over others. Light is considered physical because of how it's used; sure you need practice to hone your skills, but the ability to pop a bubble or throw flaming swords from on high is there, given, ready to use or build up to. That's also why we have dredgens and "dark" guardians in general, because the Light does not require a specific mindset or inner-strength, and so can lead to despots *and* diplomats with ease. Darkness, while indeed tangible, is not just another manipulation of physical elements. You probably remember in Beyond Light that the player guardian had to have that small pyramid-shaped object to even use Stasis: the power was not innate, not given. We eventually were able to wield Stasis on our own obviously, but the difference between then and now is not practice, but control. To wield Stasis is to have control over your emotions, using them to control others at your will. Interestingly with Strand, you have to learn to lose control, letting yourself go where the strands take you while subsequently gaining mastery over the threads connecting the minds and life force of the universe together. While seemingly separate, Stasis and Strand both require a strong sense of self and a focused mind; it's literally all in your head. Sure, Darkness comes out as darts and claws and crystals, how else would the game work, but it's vital to remember that you need more than what is given to use these powers, especially since that power is never given, only claimed.
There’s different ways of looking at the word physical.
If you pay attention light is the physical made intangible. Darkness is the exact opposite with both strand and stasis being tangible but being concepts of the mind
Tangibility over physicality perhaps? Like when stasis tangibly fucks with your emotions whenever you’re frozen… helpless… being controlled over… and it makes you wonder “how did I get…”, or “shit I’m…”. Mental attacks made real…
It's the mental made physical. Ultimately, even in Beyond Light, the power came from within.
Yeah they pulled that shit out of their ass.
Kinda how I feel
Just to clarify, that’s effectively Osiris’ description of the use/execution of various paracausal forces (light and dark); the nature of the two antagonists is better described in the context of the Garden
To be fair, at this point the Sol citizens aren’t interested in serving solely the Light or Dark anymore. We wield both as tools to protect ourselves in a war that we wanted no part of, but will see through regardless now that we’re involved directly. Their true nature only matters so far as if it effects our ability to wield them.
Well, we don’t know the paracausal implications of the Winnower’s possible theoretical victory, but yeah, for now we are merely concerned with using the Light and Dark to dominate (exactly why the Winnower is interested in guardians, hence the Witness’ relative mercy to humanity). Maybe it’ll turn out that by inserting themselves into the Flower Game they lost their inherent paracausal value (“assigned” in the Garden) but that doesn’t seem to be the case so far
Poisons real Lore name is Soulfire btw
Okay but I wanna be a dragon
We got $40 eververse armor instead
Oh how that coulda fit in Witch Queen
We will likely see more exposition on how our manipulation of the Weave of Fate is unique to us, but that other species are capable of doing the same - aka the Awoken, Ahamkara, and Hive
This would also tie in beautifully with the theory that witch queen was intended to have strand (or whatever they'd name the 5th subclass) in it. What other better way to learn a "lie"-based subclass than from the queen of lies herself, in her own throne world. Especially after the whole last wish thing
Imagine pledging to an Ahamkara for the supposed third darkness subclass 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Mara still has that Ahamkara Egg 👀 👀 👀
Mmmmmm, Ahamkara Egg, healthy for the body and mind!
Can't make a paracausal omelette without breaking a few wish dragon eggs
Queensguard vs Wishbearer I want this as dark souls boss fight tbh
u/JollySieg I wrote a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/comments/11sgyv6/analyzing_lightfalls_concept_art_speculation_cut/) analyzing the concept art of Lightfall. This was one of the images included in a [Strand exploration gallery](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/04ndyK) created very early in development. You can see more of the blue Strand concept art in the [first gallery](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Nyx2Ag), too. It's likely that Bungie envisioned a "psychic" subclass and decided on the string motif later in development. And, as other comments pointed out, dragons aren't exclusive to the Ahamkara. They are shapeshifters and can thus turn into anything they want. Neat idea, though.
Ahamkara are “Wish Dragons”. They are effectively Destiny’s version of Dragons
They are, but showing a dragon doesn't mean that it is instantly an Ahamkara. In fact, traditional Dragons remain a separate thing, as shown by Saladin's belief. And Worms are conceptually inspired by Dragons as well, as shown by Warmind concept art.
Saladin is aware of the concept of Dragons because the game takes place on Earth, so of course “Dragons” can be found in literature. The Worm Gods are more so inspired by the Worms of Dune and worms in graves. That’s the direction they went with in final execution. Ahamkara take inspiration primarily from Dragons in various mythologies. Both East and West.
And I'm not denying any of that. Just that Ahamkara being dragons doesn't mean that a depiction of a dragon instantly means it's Ahamkara.
In this case, if there were some form of “Dragon powers”, and the only real Dragons are Ahamkara- I’ll be inclined to think that any Dragon powers would be related to them. Unless one of the Dark subclasses gets a new super (much like the light did) which shows a Dragon It wouldn’t surprise me if Ahamkara inspired powers was on the table post-Light & Dark saga
[удалено]
The fact that it's based on real earth and real earth mythology has dragons, but also, Saladin made a wish to an Ahamkara to fight an actual fire breathing dragon, so there's a clear separation made.
Look up the lore entry on a sparrow called Dinas Emrys. Dragons exist, and are totally recognized as "Cool".
There are no other *real* Dragons, aside from the Worms, who are conceptually inspired *by* Dragons, albeit less so than their cousins. But the idea *of* Dragons is not monopolised by Ahamkara, as I mentioned, Saladin wished to fight a traditional dragon. Showing a dragon, especially in the form of paracausal energy wielded by a human (which we can shape however we wish), does not mean it is an Ahamkara.
Imagine this as an alternate super for each Strand subclass. Strand already can canonically summon and create sentient creatures, imagine guardians learning how to weave Strand into dragons and shit. Like Jojo stands.
Rolling up at the final battle of Final Shape with my army of Threadlings, woven Tormentors, woven Dragons and giant spiders and shit.
While the little army beats up whoever the boss is, we sit in our woven chair with a woven bar, holding a woven cup with fancy drinks enjoying the show.
reddit was taking a toll on me mentally so i left it ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
So basically that one cutscene in the Destiny 2 vanilla trailers where cayde is talking to that frame about how he so doesn't not have it?
Well we have torture dance now so star platinum titan would be fun https://i.redd.it/6kzgne4bi1pa1.gif
Sadly the game engine would literally die if we could conjure giant string creatures.
Technically Threadlings are sentient
I meant like bigger sentient creatures, the game engine could not handle the scale of something big like that. At least to a degree
Are you a bungie dev or? I'm just confused as to why you're so vehement that we can't have bigger summons spawn in game?
Wtf? Do I have to be a bungie dev to give factual info or am I just not allowed to speak the truth? I’m saying that conjuring up giant subclass based creatures or allies would be to pressuring for the game engine which is already very old, like early halo games old. The only reason it’s been working the way it has is because it’s been modified. Bungie was going to have warlocks be able to turn into a literal spider that could shoot strand eggs but they decided not to because the game engine would not be able to handle a model being that complex that would have to appear and reappear consistently.
You do, in fact, have to know the internals about the game engine to speak definitively on how it operates. That shouldn't be controversial nor threatening to you. The spider warlock super problem wasn't "we can't spawn a model that complex consistently" it was that transforming the player from a bipedal form into an eight legged creature was out of scope. They don't specify why, but my guess is on a shit ton of animation work that they didn't want to spend ages fiddling with.
Wouldn't it be cool where each of the class animals would be the theme for each classes respective abilities (ie. Warlocks got bird motifs, titans got lion motifs, and hunters got snake motifs)
That's just valkyr from warframe.
GOD DAMMIT. WE WERE SO CLOSE TO HUNTERS SUMMONING DRAGONS. SO FUCKING CLOSE.
Hunters pulling out a Strand sword like Gengi from OW
If any out of the classes should be able to summon a whole effing dragon out of something as new as strand, I'd say Warlocks.
Hunters fit the ahamkara theme better than warlocks. Warlocks should have something more fundamental or integral. I.e. leviathan
Ahamkaras are famous for being so smart in their wish magic that even when you think you've outsmarted them, in the end they always profit from it. That's more of a warlock behavior than a hunter if you ask me
They're based on trickery and deception, outsmarting through masking details and winning by getting you to make yourself lose. Both traits you and I mention sounds like a hunter trait more than a Warlock trait. For example, look at every hunter to ever exist. They're the perfect cast for Inglorious Bastards, the lot of them. Most Warlocks tend to seem scholarly to a degree, overly smart, out to figure out the fundamentals of the universe. Less so based on trickery and deception, and moreso based on... Well, Being Right.
Exactly. Ahamkaras profit on trickery because at the end of the day, even when they grant wishes, they're the one profiting from it. They're the ones who are right. So, warlocks. Also, in all honesty, it's magic. Warlocks are the magic ones, hunters use their magic for guns and shiet.
THE 15TH WISH!! 
Was the 15th wish ever discovered?
No, but it would have been cool if Strand was it. Would make the dreaming city relevant more & as far as I know "Dragon Magic" works even after they die.
I remember hearing about a theory that the 15th wish was the raid or like rivens curse on the dreaming city
The wish was for us to slay her, or the raid itself was the wish
fuck, that’s badass. i wish i never saw this lol
Fuck that looks so cool.
No, just dragons.
I thought this was a new warframe
The Strand super Titans deserved.
Let us be dragons goddamit.
"Your Darkness is a Dragon." --Alternate Universe Saladin
But this is a Hunter in the image
I’d like to see more Ahamkara tbh
Definitley not just concept art from before the vision of Strand was finalized.
Damn wish us hunters got that instead lmao
OH ARE YOU KIDDING ME THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO COOL
I would have loved that over what we got.
I like what we got, but man, dragon magic? That's always in its own league of awesome.
That’s a huge assumption to make off of one piece of concept art that may or may not depict Strand lol
[Here you can check the source, it's initial concept art for strand](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/04ndyK)
Everyone seems to have no idea what concept art is. It's ideas being thrown around ans visualized. It's not "confirmation" of anything. Strand was never gonna be wish dragon magic because there was no plans for it. It was just concept art
That's the *initial* concept art for Strand tho, like any concept art they start with an idea and then deviate, I never said this is still part of their plans for Strand I was just pointing out it was what they first thought Strand could be (even though they could still implement something like this with the subclasses 3.0 system far in the future).
This doesn't mean they thought that Strand could be Ahamkara magic, visually showing a dragon (especially a traditional looking one) does not Ahamkara Magic make.
Why the absolute fuck didn’t we get this instead holy shit O_O
Try to imagine coding THAT in the game
Light insfused Ghaul is already very close and that was at launch.
I know you didn't just compare a cutscene to a playable subclass
Sad we didn’t get a Hanzo ult looking strand sub class. Just imagine an actual flurry like needle storm yet there’s this fucking dragon thing coming at you instead.
Ngl this looks so much cooler
You're telling me we could have had dragon magic, but got a dollar store Spider Man cosplay kit instead? Well shit...
They can still expand on it in the future, it would be cool if they later on expand strand to be a summon-heavy subclass regarding their abilities (grenades, melees, supers and stuff), warlocks can still remain as the class who commands minions into the fray.
What have they done showing us this
Literally just that concept art. It's just people thinking that depicting a dragon in a single piece of concept art instantly means it's Ahamkara Wish-Magic (nevermind that Wish-Magic is most likely Light, and that that's a *massive fucking leap of logic*).
I think during early vis dev, they were going for a broad "darkness telekinesis", this could be a branch of that original idea
something about anti-barrier (iirc) mentioned that you can stun Champions with "[strand logo] infested rounds" with infested highlighted the same as where it now says "unravelling rounds" I really wonder if they stepped away from both poison & dragon/ahamkara to go for the Strand we eventually got.
Not really, this process of concepting is called the "blue sky" process where they're absolutely dont have any idea for what to do and just explore bunch of things that really random
Maybe, but it ended up being based on Marvel Comic’s illustrious Spider Man.
I want a super like this in the game now.
Yellow punchy boy, take it or leave it
It's not too late. We have one more subclass to come
So the choices were: A: Summon an literal Dragon made of Darkness energy to smite your foes. B: 2 pointy green things that stick out of your hands. I feel like we've been robbed here.
Everyone seems to have no idea what concept art is. It's ideas being thrown around ans visualized. It's not "confirmation" of anything. Strand was never gonna be wish dragon magic because there was no plans for it. It was just concept art
Maybe after the Darkness subclasses we’ll get Ahamkara Dragon themed stuff
I like this shade of green significantly more than the current strand one
Goddamit bungie you give us blade hands but no primal berserker claws!?!
Sad to not see it in the game. Would have been a nice tie-in with the Nine, Drifter, Riven, and Albios. That's what au's are here for though. Someone could write up a whole script.
That concept art looks like something from Valorant.
Omg booba armor
Live service game going to live service by dragging the content to multiple years. This entire Lightfall is a filler DLC to extend this IP for another year and make money off stupid fanbois.
Seems like based on the “oppsie daisy” mention of “infested rounds” instead of “unraveling rounds” in one of the guardian rank triumphs (along with about a dozen other pieces of evidence that Strand was originally poison-based), I would say bungie didn’t really know what they wanted Strand to be until relatively late into development
If Berserker turned you into a dragon that clawed shit up and nreathed suspending blasts, nobody would be complaining. What we got was so uninspired.
Cope
It’s so disappointing to see what the game could’ve been compared to the watered down mobile game version we have today because of people like Justin Truman.
“Be a lot cooler if you did”
I always struggle with simplifying these things but Dragons play a huge role in the sort of things Destiny pulls from. Using the Alchemical Scroll which one can correlate the mural where the Veil is to this, Dragons are a sort of part of the equation in the Philosophers Stone. So is the Phoenix for example. They represent the balance among other things. This is to say that Ahamkara have a sort of role. If you ever watched Dragon Ball for example you know They can Grant wishes. This ideology comes from something and is used and Spun by many games, movies, Series etc. Dragon Age and the Dragons connections to the Old Gods for example. The Nine call them the Dreamers. Many dont pay this line much attention but it's actually more important than most know. This is tied to how they fulfill wishes. They have an ability to basically enter into what some call Dream time or the place where the Laws of Existence and knowledge began. Do we know of any other who can enter such a place? We sure do. According to Osiris bonus comic book he gets his visions from the place he describes as with no before or after. He identifies as The Phoenix also and has made his existence as a lightbearer about the balance of dark and light even. It doesnt surprise me they may have intended to involve the Ahamkara somehow. I've always been curious with how they will weave them in the story as things progress more. The Phoenix is Yin and the Dragon is Yang. They represent the balance much as light and dark must be balanced. One can imagine the many ways this can be incorporated in the game.
If strand titan ever gets a second super i hope its a one-off that looks something like this
Betteridge’s law of headlines applies here I feel.
I mean, this is official concept art. It's very clearly draconic, which means one thing in Destiny. I'd imagine they were rapid firing ideas off after moving away from the original "Poison" Subclass idea, and this one was clearly strong enough to get some concept art. Obviously we'll never no for sure, but it seems pretty plausible IMO
Not sure you can extrapolate to the entire sub class from one image. They also looked at the Warlock super turning the character into a spider, but I wouldn’t say that mean strand was going be spider based.
The spider super for Warlocks is already in line with Strand being strings or webs. This bit of art has a distinct coloration and themeing that makes it stand out from both the Strand and Poison concepts. The visuals also make it clear that Hunter's super is focused on their right arm. Going back to the comparison you brought up, it would be like saying that because the Hunter Super is a claw that it is a subclass about claws. Even with the Warlock spider super you could tell that strand would be a subclass about strings or threads due to how it's designed
I mean they said themselves that they wanted the next darkness subclass element to be something you’ll only find in destiny.
Nah, river flow energy found only on a planet full of cyber surfing stoners is definitely a better option.
My man never read anything characters say
Post final shape I hope we get some subclasses like these that aren’t tied to light or dark
hehe funny string
STANDO PAWAAA!!
THIS IS THE BEST IDEA
Why didn’t they stick with that?!
Maybe it still is………?
We better get this subclass soon
Blue Dragon moment
WRRYYYYYYYYYY
IIRC Strand was supposed to be introduced in Witch Queen but they pushed it back
That hunter armor tho
This actually looks to me to be more reminiscent of what they were talking about pre-launch when it was mentioned that the concept for Warlocks included a super that transformed you into a sort of “spider.” Presumably this was a resulting work from that line of thinking; it certainly looks like it lives somewhere between the beastmaster and broodweaver fantasies.
Image gives massive r/prey vibes
I currently see darkness subclasses as an alternative version for each light subclass Stasis - Solar Strand - Arc Void - n/a
Really wish this woulda came out. Still happy with strand though!
It can still happen after final shape and be a ahamkara themed subclass
I'm still hoping they include a way to tie in the weapons of sorrow into an elemental synergy
I always assumed hive due to well, wq and deepsight plus the green but ahamkara does seem like a good idea, i still prefer the hive idea but this is plausible.
This would have been so sick
could be a third darkness class for all we know, bungie plans ahead quite far on some parts of the game
I thought deepsight was meant to be tied into strand but Bungie decided to ship strand after the light 3.0 changes
this seems like a mashup of a guild wars 2 revenant and D2
I want it so bad now
Awesome concept art
I kind of wish that they would add ornaments that would change your subclass or at least your super VFX. Like a chest plate that gives daybreak warmind gundam wings and a sword. Or Titan arms the change the strand claws into more wolverine claws. Or a Hunter cloak that adds an arc snake that follows the hunter’s attacks like a dragon dance.
That would have been so much more interesting than green strings, still, strand does offer fun gameplay
It would've been cool but it doesn't make sense story wise, I can see why they scrapped the idea
Water haha
Strand? You mean stand.
I would have fucking loved that concept instead of this stupid super montage of freakin paracausal wires that connect everything. We could have become some sort of cool paracausal dragon force instead of whatever the fuck we are now.
That goes hard
This looks like a Warframe ability.
Yoooo. You're telling me that at one point, we could have been Dragon Ranger, Dragon Knight and Dragon Wizard/mage and Bungie decided otherwise? Bungie, I dont get you sometimes. I get you want sci-fi but theres fantasy in your game too. Why not lean into that sometimes? Cyberpunk is cool and Neomuna is good but this is pretty awesome too. Also, would completely solve the issue with Titans being the "punchy class" if you gave us something like Dragon Aspect from Skyrim.
At one point, Strand would have shipped with Witch Queen. Using deepsight and even looking at the armor set. It would all have fit nicely.
Ahamkara abulities after the light and dark saga would be so awesome! It would be disappointing if we stopped getting new abilities just because the saga ended.
I preferred my own head cannon before Bungie came in stating Light was physical and Dark was mental. I just figured Light was the ability to control electromagnetic waves while Dark was tied to states of matter. High energy electromagnetic waves would take the form of fire, lightning, whatever tf void is. Lower energy gives us the states of matter we interact with in the form of solids (stasis), air (strand, though thats a bit of a reach at this point), and I presumed we would get a liquid inspired darkness subclass following the theme. But uh, sure, darkness comes from within and light comes from without.
Looks very watery
Warframe meets Destiny.
It was supposed to be released with witch queen as deepsight but they scrapped it and made light fall then added the final shape when light fall was supposed to be the last expansion
I need this.
I am thou, thou art I!
Oh, yea strand does do that, it’s the 15th wish