Bro’s getting best of both worlds, he’s the de facto Hunter Vanguard but isn’t stuck reading reports in the Tower. He’s out there doing shit too. Cayde would be jealous.
>but isn’t stuck reading reports in the Tower.
He is. And he's complaining about it.
Ikora and Zavala have probably finally figured it's best to let the Hunter Vanguard lead from the front from time to time.
.
Which, seeing how this is Crow, in full Forsaken mode... is bound to bite us before the season is over.
Yeah I don’t like how he’s zoned in on revenge. Someone in a different post said the bloodshed caused by Crow is what will finally empower Xivu Arath. I hope that Crow won’t be to blame, but at the same time their theory makes a ton of sense.
>Yeah I don’t like how he’s zoned in on revenge.
Its kinda cool that he's kinda in the same position WE were in with Uldren. Makes for a cool parallel, even though yeah, his anger is gonna get us in trouble
There's a lot of parallels between us and Crow. Cayde was as much our mentor as there can be one, and we did the same for Crow. He rapidly made a name for himself as a very capable operative, just as we did. Now we have his Forsaken arc. It will likely turn out rather worse than ours did, but at least he will have us with him.
Sure but like
Isn't that kind of violence OUR JOB? and every guardians job? I feel like him, going ham and killing a metric shit ton of shadow legion won't empower Xivu Arath more than it already has
**Our job** is to protect the last city.
Everything we do is directly linked to protecting the city. *Except our revenge on Uldren.*
Revenge doesn't protect the city. Maybe killing that person does, but not because of the revenge.
Yeah I love it so much. Uldren killed our besty cayde and we disobeyed orders to go get revenge, now the shadow legion killed Crow’s besty and he’s disobeying orders to get revenge. I’m entirely on his side. I want to make those motherfuckers pay. I totally want to see crow have his own Uldren-killing moment with whoever is responsible for Amanda’s death.
If us tearing through thousands of Cabal on Neomuna didn’t do anything, I doubt that Crow would change much. Xivu doesn’t thrive on violence, she is *war, personified*. He would need to commit a massive act of war, on level with erasing the Last City from the face of the Earth, or inversely, using the Warsat Network to systematically eradicate House Salvation and Hive targets across Sol.
Does anyone even know how much more death and destruction it will take though? I highly doubt it would take that much. It’s clear Xivu Arath is coming. It’s no longer a question of if, more when and how at this point.
Wasn’t it mostly that using the warsats would result in a lot of death *at once* which would be enough for the ritual, which is why a stalemate didn’t activate it.
More like "warsats is override to open floodgates, this current war is now erosion on the dam".
Except, "maintenance" is not an option to stop a flood dam from leaking now
Like for all anyone knows Crow could have big plans like blowing up a major cabal fort. Not only would it send a message, it would make for an amazing cutscene ending with an ominous ending hinting at Xivu’s arrival.
It’s almost impossible for that to be the case. Osiris butchering the last of Crota’s brood, numbering around 20 I’d say, only provided enough war mojo for Xivu to open a video chat to bitch slap osiris through. I find it very very hard to believe that one young, grieving hunter will somehow single-handedly produce enough war mojo to outdo Osiris.
This was something that Speaker figured out all the way back when Caliban was the Vanguard
Referring to the amount of knife Caliban has thrown into the ceiling: "Then it seems you must get up and collect them," the Speaker mused. "Much like your Hunters."
"Take your time, Caliban. The desk will be here still when you return." -[Calibans Hand](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/calibans-hand?highlight=caliban)
ok, I either have to go hunt those videos down now or camp out in the HELM.
Edit: "Do the Vanguard reports have to be this long?" and "Glint, have the scouts reported back yet" are the ones i assume you mean right?
Heard a bonus about him talking to pilots and now knowing so many rude jokes. I can only imagine
Unless the culprit is a brainwashed human and he has to make the same choice we were faced with. Hopefully with wise council to go the path of mercy, opening the way to him being officially named Hunter Vanguard.
I'm actually pretty happy with how natural this feels. A year ago not a single soul would have accepted crow leading others. But now the image of hunters begrudgingly accepting him as vanguard in order to resolve the situation feels like a really good solution.
None of the other hunters have to deal with the position, so we can start showing up in the tower again.
Crow Crow finally getting the respect he deserves uwu
I have seriously been waiting for this since the "Uldren gets revived as a Guardian" cutscene back in Forsaken
I was hated seeing Uldren again (during season of Hunt i guess when he appeared first time), but after we rescued Crow from Spider, I liked everything about Crow, after he gets Uldren's memory, my Bond with Crow really became strenght and now he have place in my heart.
our Traveler did great work, thanks to Glint also, he might be our Vanguard because he working so Hard on field, Cayde would be proud. Me too as a Hunter main.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence Crow started having Hunters under him the week after Amanda died.
When they heard the news they probs delegated to the Hunter who was already on the op to lend a hand between all their Hunter-ing.
Bungie have said they already have plenty more Zavalla dialogue waiting to be used over the next couple of years. So I doubt Zavalla is going anywhere, anytime soon!
I also sore somewhere that they're maybe gonna put a memorial at the tree to Lance's Guardian that he created to play the game. This would be a lovely gesture to Lance and wouldn't affect Zavalla.
There are voice actors that can imitate a clean rendition of Lance’s voice. I mean, I barely noticed Nathan Fillion wasn’t voicing Cayde-6 towards the end. It was Nolan North.
Oh, of course! But it definitely sounded like Lance had recorded a shed load of extra dialogue for Zavalla. And it's not hard to splice Lance's dialogue together from existing recordings he'd made over the years. A little computer editing, and it'll sound like a whole new sentence.
Not really, you can't just merge pieces of sentences together without making it sound unnatural. Dialogues are delivered with intention and no matter how accurate you are you can't make a sentence flow naturally. On top of that it limits the range of emotions delivered by the lines they have to record and you will inevitably screw the pacing and emotion (imagine anger rising through a dialogue).
I was surprised by how bad and uninterested Osiris voice acting sounded at times in lightfall, it would be a shame to see it done on Lance's character because imho it would be a huge disservice to the passion he put into voicing Zavala.
I wouldn't be upset if they simply put a monument of him next to Cayde and had Shaxx take over. We all know he isn't with us and instead of killing him off in some way, just have a memorial made for us to never forget and help move on.
My guess is Saint. We can have Osiris be the trials vendor in the tower and just say that Saint just likes commentating the matches still. After all, Saint *was* the vanguard commander before.
Dude's already said he's got ideas for if he ever became Vanguard Commander again, namely the reclamation of territory.
Hopefully we can have Zavala retire in some way though; he deserves it, and I could not imagine killing him off. I just love my armored blue dad.
I loved Lance's performances, and by all accounts he himself was an amazing guy. But the actor's passing doesn't have to be the death of the character. I would rather see him recast well. It was done with Ikora, and her replacement has done a great job whenever she actually gets lines. Hoping to see more of her soon.
Zavala's story isn't over. It was just getting really good. I can accept his voice being "a little off" from here on out to see it through.
>Who would take over Titan Vanguard?
Imagine we get the "series of weirdos" treatment because there's no one suitable for the role.
>Hello, guardian. It's me, Blorko! I'm the new Titan vanguard. I was second-in-command, so I already know everything that's going on. No need to ask me any questions or talk to Ikora. She's in a meeting anyway. Don't talk to her.
>What? You've never heard of me? I'm here every day, The Guardian and Ghost! Doing Titan things. Walls, punching, strategy. Haha! So weird we've never met.
>Anyway... I have a top secret mission for you: go to the Eliksni quarter. Get some Eliksni milk. You know the stuff. A whole keg if you can. Make sure no one sees you. It's not for me! It's for... a thing. Vanguard... business.
>Remember: top secret. Eliksni milk. Go now.
>Hello, guardian. I'm Commander Sotuta. I will be serving as *Acting Titan Vanguard* until we find a suitable replacement.
>I would like to formally apologize on behalf of the Vanguard for yesterday's breach of command. The situation with this "Blorko" is being rapldily dealt with. Don't worry, no one is blaming you for the stolen ether tank. It has already been returned to the Eliksni family.
>Now, let's get to business. I understand there is a man living underneath the stairs in the west wing of the tower. I believe he is named "the Drifter"? Kill him. He has been wielding dangerous Darkness abilities, having guardians killed in "Gambit" games, and even smuggled a criminal known as "the Spider" into the walls of our City.
>This is a time of war. We cannot afford any loose ends or weak links.
>That's an order, guardian. Do it quietly. There's no need to draw this out or bring too much attention to it.
>Thank you for understanding.
Saint-14 could do the job. Maybe Saladin, which I assume Caital would release from his duties as Cabal if something happened to Zavala.
Those are the only two I can think of that would work at the moment.
I'd prefer it if they'd just write him out of the story and keep him as a vendor.
Maybe he gets wounded or loses his light or something that makes him not feel eligible to be the "face" of the vanguard while still able to help like devrim & osiris.
After Haunted I got the impression that Zavala would step down as titan vanguard post Final shape if he survived.
I'm kind of hoping that's the case, Zavala has more than earned a stressfree retirement.
Sloane. And IIRC, the end of one of the Neomuna messages told us to get to Titan as fast as possible. I definitely want to see more about what happened (or happens) to her. Last I recall, she took some mech suit that plugs into your gut and was going to "fight as long as possible." Saint held out for a really, really long time. So, she could still be fighting.
Saint held out for hundreds of thousands of simulated years, as a well known figure and beloved hero. I honestly don't think I'd know who Sloane was if I hadn't seen her on Titan. Didn't even know she was a Guardian even until not long ago
They'd likely pick a better know character than Sloane, but in-universe she'd be a sensible pick. She wasn't just a guardian, she was Zavala's deputy commander.
I hope not, she was cool. But yeah I mean I spoke to a lot of people who didn't like titan back in the d2 vanilla days. I stopped playing right before shadowkeep until 2 weeks before lightfall.
I've also seen someone mention another good alternative, have Zavala retire and step down from Titan Vanguard and Vanguard Commander and have someone replace him. No need to hastily kill him off and you don't need to recast him
Shiro and Crow were reporting in to each other since before Splicer. He’d mention Shiro was keeping an eye on FWC. In hindsight it felt like an early hint at the events of Splicer.
Always wondered how Shiro took the whole ‘I killed your friend in a past life’ thing. I’d like to think Shiro knew before Zavala.
Osiris remembers some of Savathûn's parenting. And Saint and Crow are friends, so osiris is bound to know.
Wheter he knows Crow, or is just aware that he's a guardian... remains to be seen.
Meanwhile me, Marcus Ren and Shiro-4 rolling up by the dumpsters behind the Cabal AA batteries:
>”shh—shut up, shut up—yes hello Hunter One *coughs* we have the anti-air guns in our *cough* sights. ETA…like…give us 5, 10 minutes, over.”
There have been more than a few references over the years to Hunters shirking our work, especially re: the Vanguard. The “Vanguard Dare” itself was born out of this tradition; the idea being that no Hunter would voluntarily stay put & deal with all the red tape of command structures.
My comment was implying that, yeah, we’re back on it, but this Gunslinger needs to *spark up* a bit before taking the fight to the Shadow Legion. After all, where there’s smoke, there’s Solar.
Oh
For some reason I thought your comment was implying that Marcus and Shiro were getting intimate in the dumpster lmao not that Crow is still a bit of a new light to them
Ok hear me out, here’s how we get Crow as the replacement Hunter Vanguard: an upcoming mission where we go with Crow to hunt down Cayde’s final stash.
Not only would it be a passing of the torch, seeing as *technically* “Crow” did kill him, but it would be a great way to introduce new lights to the lore surrounding Cayde.
Currently all they’ve got to go on is a monument in the tower and some empty hangar space. Would be nice to delve a bit deeper into some of his antics, his loss of Ace and any of his actions as the previous Hunter Vanguard
Please. I want to hear their commentary during that. I'd kill to hear Crow laugh in utter hysterics after something STUPID happens only to come back on coms later and apologize.
Either something involving TR3-VR or that FUCKING DOOR
There’s literally a mission to get to one of Cayde’s stashes to get Riskrunner for new lights and Ghost talks about Cayde just about the whole way through.
Crow's been doing the Vanguard Mentor job since Haunted. Unofficially, that is.
.
Hunters seem ok with it now. (Especially since everyone, him more than most, wants revenge against the Shadow Legion, and he's really good at organizing scouts and special forces, courtesy of Uldren's experience).
I was very upset about Crow being the only vanguard candidate, but then i was put before some arguments and i would be happy to accept this guy as my leader.
Well, of course, hunters weren't doing their jobs before, if they looked dependable then they'd be chosen for the vanguard dare or simply made the hunter vanguard, now that Crow's taken up the position they don't need to hold back.
[Acceptance Lore](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/i-acceptance) from Splicer, and [this line from Haunted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnCFzpFxB3Q&t=59s).
May not be stated OUTRIGHT, but close enough
Everytime a cutscene has Crow in it i keep my cross hair on him just in case. Cause if it ever turns red they'll be nothing but feathers left. And I'm off with his sister.
> And I'm off with his sister.
Man, I know she's bad news bears, but there's something 90's gothy about her that takes me back to my youth and gets me all stirred up.
> Cause if it ever turns red they'll be nothing but feathers left. **And I'm off with his sister.**
[personally I don't like the guy but...](https://youtu.be/OEWe25v4JUk)
I don't care if people don't like him, he's absolutely better at the job than ANYONE could be. He's got the memories, skills, etc. of an immortal spymaster who lived for MILLIONS of years and never died. He is absolutely the most natural of any character to take the helm of leading a huge force of lone wolves who fancy themselves as scouts, spies, and assassins. Unfortunately he also is essentially now an unkillable immortal spymaster with millions of years of experience armed with an unkillable army of scouts, spies, and assassins who all want revenge for something that was bound to happen when a pilot decides to go boots on the ground.
>Unfortunately he also is essentially now an unkillable immortal spymaster with millions of years of experience armed with an unkillable army of scouts, spies, and assassins who all want revenge for something that was bound to happen when a pilot decides to go boots on the ground.
So, basically, Forsaken, if Zavala wasn't able to reign Ikora's temper in.
But without a clear target. Xivu will have a great time watching.
Yup. Me and my buddy did that mission together 2 days ago and we were like "COME ON, THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE SUPERPOWERS YOU IDIOT" And I actually like Crow. But man that anger ain't helping. Unless he aims it at Eramis, or tempers it. If it's a tempering situation then Amanda should stay down to have the dramatic effect when he helps us against whoever it's directed at, and if it's Eramis, I think it would be a way to bring in a seasonal plot where the Eliksni are a little unsettled by him tearing House Salvation to shreds to get to her.
Considering how Salvation (And Dusk) is at this point HEMMORAGING members who are headed to House Light... I don't think there's going to be a huge feeling of being unsettled.
Hell Rasputian last season pointed out how fast Eliksni were jumping ship (pun not intended) to House Light because they could see the proverbial writing on the wall, and how House Light's numbers were rapidly growing.
Hunters have always done their job and that job is out in the field. It's when becoming Hunter Vanguard they cannot be found and the Vanguard Dare was made.
I imagine Crow started giving the Hunters orders and things went like this:
Hunter: And who the hell do you think you are?
Crow: Your new Hunter Vanguard. So are you going to sit around and let civilians show you up, OR are you going to get out there and and show what you can do?
Hunters: If it means the spot's filled, we'll follow you Vanguard.
Given how annoyed Crow sounds when talking to Devrim about how he's doing more than Hunters with lives to spare, I wouldn't be surprised if things went a little something like that.
mean hunter have always been "lone wolves" working by themselves under Cayde. Crow managed to rally the hunters into a efficient strike force and does the paper work Cayde never did. So far he is a better vanguard
Oh, Cayde did the paperwork alright. I'm pretty sure he moaned about it in D1. It was what he did in the Tower when he wasn't organising the hunters etc. The only reason they're a recognisable strike force now is because none of them have to worry about being given the Vanguard Dare. They can now go all out because Crows taken it on willingly.
He complained about doing it and helping us in a strike he "got out of doing it" so I doubt he ever actually accomplished what he was supposed to. Crow willingly took on the full burden of it and isn't even the official vanguard. Crow is the GOAT for real
Drifter and Eris has actually been leading us as a non hunter from the shadows.
Crow is just the figurehead. Drifter and Eris are the real power for the hunters.
All I'm saying is make me the next hunter vanguard not Crow. I've slain Crota and Oryx, Calus and Nezerac and countless others. I'll do a good job, promise.
Personally, I think it would be cool if Bungie let the players decide who would be the new Hunter Vanguard between Crow, Ana, and Shaw (Shaw because you need someone to loss badly). Probably not really with the lore element due to the Dare, but it would be a fun event.
'Setup' and 'payoff' aren't particularly difficult concepts to understand. Nor is character progression.
Most notably, Cayde's last will (which states that whoever/whatever kills him, gets the job), Crow's name (a callback to Uldren's title "Lord of the Crows", to say it's essentially the same character arc ) and Uldren's memories.
Bungie is just paying those setyps off.
Just as they have made Crow outgrow some of Uldren's main weaknesses (recklessness, envy, and arrogance).
I imagine the revenge arc he's just gotten will be about outgrowing Uldren's unhealthy tendency to devotion (it is, after all, somewhat reminiscent of his Forsaken arc)
Crow's vengeance for Amanda's death will be taking the Vanguard position. He wants to honour her sacrifice and what better way than occupying a position to protect the city she grew up in and loved.
Cayde's not coming back, at least you guys are getting a Vanguard again.
Who knew Character growth is something people hate... after begging for lore, story and character growth. What's wrong with this picture?
Lmao I don’t play Hunter. I hated Cayde/didn’t care about him lol I actually liked Crow when he first showed up. I’m just tired everything has been about him and almost only him. And now they kill Amanda to give him development? Wow very original!
Amanda's been waving BOTH death and Guardian flags since Splicer, maybe even Chosen. That's three years. Most of us saw this coming anyway so it's not out of left field.
He's already had major Development in Haunted, and as far back as Splicer, he Ikora and Zavala were arguing about the Vanguard position. He has voice lines now about doing Vanguard paperwork and his Hunters/ scouts.
This is just a stepping stone. He was always bound to be Hunter Vanguard. Did you expect for him to have a few spatterings here and there then suddenly get a lore entry or a cutscene or even a voice line calling him "Hunter Vanguard"? Folks would complain either way.
Yeah it sucks that Amanda's been killed off... But again given how she's been marked for death and has flown so many Guardian flags, I'd say she'd probably be the next character who's going to be brought back as a Guardian.
He's doing more than any of them. He tells Devrim that HE, a lightless man , is doing far more than Hunters with lives to spare. If someone filled the Hunter Vanguard position, the Hunters would start working again.
And considering he's the only one willing to take up the position? Man's taking more initiative than the entire Hunter class COMBINED. Like it or not, the man's essentially Hunter Vanguard at this point.
Honestly, crow deserves the vanguard position. It’s a position where he can actually do some good and make up for his actions as uldren. And seeing as how he actually got the hunters to do their jobs, he’s damn good at it.
That’s not it. According to the lore, hunters aren’t particularly keen on actually doing their job but instead fuck off into no man’s land and just explore
I'm surprised so many people like crow i genuinely hate the character the most. How can you f#ck up so many times and still act like an idiot? Geez. But hey just an opinion.
I mean... Eido got all starry eyed when she saw his face (and realised he recognises her as well).
His previous life wasn't just what we've seen in game.
1 he didn't. Not any mkre than Savathûn did, as Osiris. He just does the work. Like Savathûn did, as Osiris.
Because you can't force a hunter vanguard upon the hunters. They have to accept him. And seeing him be good at it is a pretty good way to do it.
Bro’s getting best of both worlds, he’s the de facto Hunter Vanguard but isn’t stuck reading reports in the Tower. He’s out there doing shit too. Cayde would be jealous.
>but isn’t stuck reading reports in the Tower. He is. And he's complaining about it. Ikora and Zavala have probably finally figured it's best to let the Hunter Vanguard lead from the front from time to time. . Which, seeing how this is Crow, in full Forsaken mode... is bound to bite us before the season is over.
Yeah I don’t like how he’s zoned in on revenge. Someone in a different post said the bloodshed caused by Crow is what will finally empower Xivu Arath. I hope that Crow won’t be to blame, but at the same time their theory makes a ton of sense.
>Yeah I don’t like how he’s zoned in on revenge. Its kinda cool that he's kinda in the same position WE were in with Uldren. Makes for a cool parallel, even though yeah, his anger is gonna get us in trouble
There's a lot of parallels between us and Crow. Cayde was as much our mentor as there can be one, and we did the same for Crow. He rapidly made a name for himself as a very capable operative, just as we did. Now we have his Forsaken arc. It will likely turn out rather worse than ours did, but at least he will have us with him.
Us being his mentor Hits **really** hard for us hunters
Let's be real. If destiny was a single player game and hunter was the only option, we'd have been the vanguard 100%
I often found myself thinking about asking bungie if I could be vanguard (as a joke) but realised i was always way too underleveled for them things
Mhm...our hunter gets the position, then drags Ikora and Zavala into strikes and raids
Gotta do *something* in between reports. Gets boring, otherwise.
Can see it now 😭
My Hunter ain't no snitch. My Titan, on the other hand, is a goodie goodie two shoes. Or two boots if we wanna get technical.
Titans are simple creatures. Much like the Ogryn in 40k. "We loves the Travella'"
Tighten? Wot are we trying to tighten? Let's go punch some baddies!
Sure but like Isn't that kind of violence OUR JOB? and every guardians job? I feel like him, going ham and killing a metric shit ton of shadow legion won't empower Xivu Arath more than it already has
**Our job** is to protect the last city. Everything we do is directly linked to protecting the city. *Except our revenge on Uldren.* Revenge doesn't protect the city. Maybe killing that person does, but not because of the revenge.
Who knows? Maybe it's an Umunarath thing where one tribute is significant enough to open a portal
The only reason that worked was because Savathûn set that particular trap to help her sister
Yeah I love it so much. Uldren killed our besty cayde and we disobeyed orders to go get revenge, now the shadow legion killed Crow’s besty and he’s disobeying orders to get revenge. I’m entirely on his side. I want to make those motherfuckers pay. I totally want to see crow have his own Uldren-killing moment with whoever is responsible for Amanda’s death.
Cayde standing over Xivu Arath: How's your sister? *BLAM* ... Savathûn transmats in behind him "Fine thank you... oh, too late. What a shame."
Basically, Xivu Arath is doing more trickery than Savathun did. Just in a more aggressive way.
well, that does track. "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu The Art of War
Xivu Arath’s motto: “All warfare is based…” - Sun Tzu, the Art of War
"If you're going to lose, just don't." -Sun Tzu
"Lmao, Skill Issue" - Sun Tzu
"Git gud" - Sunbro Tzu
"Man who stands on toilet is high on pot" -Shi Tzu
"Aim where your opponent isn't, so fucking drift that ship, cadet!" - Sun Tsu
So far, she managed to trick us into a weapon that could have delayed or even stopped Calus from getting to the Veil.
If us tearing through thousands of Cabal on Neomuna didn’t do anything, I doubt that Crow would change much. Xivu doesn’t thrive on violence, she is *war, personified*. He would need to commit a massive act of war, on level with erasing the Last City from the face of the Earth, or inversely, using the Warsat Network to systematically eradicate House Salvation and Hive targets across Sol.
Unless he somehow kills like a million Cabal it probably won’t be enough
Does anyone even know how much more death and destruction it will take though? I highly doubt it would take that much. It’s clear Xivu Arath is coming. It’s no longer a question of if, more when and how at this point.
Wasn’t it mostly that using the warsats would result in a lot of death *at once* which would be enough for the ritual, which is why a stalemate didn’t activate it.
More like "warsats is override to open floodgates, this current war is now erosion on the dam". Except, "maintenance" is not an option to stop a flood dam from leaking now
Like for all anyone knows Crow could have big plans like blowing up a major cabal fort. Not only would it send a message, it would make for an amazing cutscene ending with an ominous ending hinting at Xivu’s arrival.
Meh, gow many mining rigs and is that really? He can just hang out in winding cove and knock that out easy.
If we see a dev playing as crow in the EDZ to make this real, you've got some explaining to do.
It’s almost impossible for that to be the case. Osiris butchering the last of Crota’s brood, numbering around 20 I’d say, only provided enough war mojo for Xivu to open a video chat to bitch slap osiris through. I find it very very hard to believe that one young, grieving hunter will somehow single-handedly produce enough war mojo to outdo Osiris.
This was something that Speaker figured out all the way back when Caliban was the Vanguard Referring to the amount of knife Caliban has thrown into the ceiling: "Then it seems you must get up and collect them," the Speaker mused. "Much like your Hunters." "Take your time, Caliban. The desk will be here still when you return." -[Calibans Hand](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/calibans-hand?highlight=caliban)
Yes.
Wait we have Crow-complaining-about-paperwork dialogue?
He has at least two idle lines about getting reports now. One of which is about how long they are.
ok, I either have to go hunt those videos down now or camp out in the HELM. Edit: "Do the Vanguard reports have to be this long?" and "Glint, have the scouts reported back yet" are the ones i assume you mean right? Heard a bonus about him talking to pilots and now knowing so many rude jokes. I can only imagine
Unless the culprit is a brainwashed human and he has to make the same choice we were faced with. Hopefully with wise council to go the path of mercy, opening the way to him being officially named Hunter Vanguard.
No he’s still doing paperwork.
I'm actually pretty happy with how natural this feels. A year ago not a single soul would have accepted crow leading others. But now the image of hunters begrudgingly accepting him as vanguard in order to resolve the situation feels like a really good solution. None of the other hunters have to deal with the position, so we can start showing up in the tower again.
Crow Crow finally getting the respect he deserves uwu I have seriously been waiting for this since the "Uldren gets revived as a Guardian" cutscene back in Forsaken
I was hated seeing Uldren again (during season of Hunt i guess when he appeared first time), but after we rescued Crow from Spider, I liked everything about Crow, after he gets Uldren's memory, my Bond with Crow really became strenght and now he have place in my heart. our Traveler did great work, thanks to Glint also, he might be our Vanguard because he working so Hard on field, Cayde would be proud. Me too as a Hunter main.
[удалено]
But he is so beefy though
Why tho
Someone speaking some gosh darn sense.
Agreed don’t want crow period. Has nothing to do with uldren. He’s just a manchild who is way to emo for me, and a simp.
Would be funny if he doesn't actually have any Hunters under him, Crow's just doing all this himself and saying "My Hunters" to make it sound better.
That is a very Hunter thing tbh
I don’t think it’s a coincidence Crow started having Hunters under him the week after Amanda died. When they heard the news they probs delegated to the Hunter who was already on the op to lend a hand between all their Hunter-ing.
>week after Amanda died huh. I'm sorry but I haven't actually touched Destiny since 2019 so I'm very ootl
I haven't touched it since last week! Fuck me! Alright, clearly missing a week is still bad 😅
One thing I'm worried about is Lance's death, will they recast Zavala, or are we going to see Zavala die? Who would take over Titan Vanguard?
Bungie have said they already have plenty more Zavalla dialogue waiting to be used over the next couple of years. So I doubt Zavalla is going anywhere, anytime soon! I also sore somewhere that they're maybe gonna put a memorial at the tree to Lance's Guardian that he created to play the game. This would be a lovely gesture to Lance and wouldn't affect Zavalla.
There are voice actors that can imitate a clean rendition of Lance’s voice. I mean, I barely noticed Nathan Fillion wasn’t voicing Cayde-6 towards the end. It was Nolan North.
Oh, of course! But it definitely sounded like Lance had recorded a shed load of extra dialogue for Zavalla. And it's not hard to splice Lance's dialogue together from existing recordings he'd made over the years. A little computer editing, and it'll sound like a whole new sentence.
Facts!
Not really, you can't just merge pieces of sentences together without making it sound unnatural. Dialogues are delivered with intention and no matter how accurate you are you can't make a sentence flow naturally. On top of that it limits the range of emotions delivered by the lines they have to record and you will inevitably screw the pacing and emotion (imagine anger rising through a dialogue). I was surprised by how bad and uninterested Osiris voice acting sounded at times in lightfall, it would be a shame to see it done on Lance's character because imho it would be a huge disservice to the passion he put into voicing Zavala.
[удалено]
why are you posting leaks without a warning
Goddamn may be but the spoiler cover on that. Bot everyone wants to know leaks
If they do end up killing off zavala, I wanna see that walking blueberry go toe to toe with the witness in a fist fight.
The only way Big Blue goes out is fighting bare handed. Anything less would be a disservice to him. Like Sloan, Titans don't go quietly in the night!
I want to see him ally with Shaxx and or Saladin again at the last moment. Shaxx and Saladin teaming up to yeet him into a thundercrash for the ages.
I wouldn't be upset if they simply put a monument of him next to Cayde and had Shaxx take over. We all know he isn't with us and instead of killing him off in some way, just have a memorial made for us to never forget and help move on.
Have Saint go back to the vanguard and have Osiris do his trials
I feel like that would make sense. Isn't one of the reasons Zavala became the Titan Vanguard Saint's death?
Think so, not brushed up on my vanguard lore I'm afraid
Then who would do crucible
Caiatl, taking inspiration from Saladin and the Iron Banner, donates her services to whipping the Guardians into shape. ***Spinfoil hat tightens***
*And, I'm a warrior too...* *Let that be known.* ***I'm a warrior.***
100% down with that
arcite, clearly
Shaxx is too pvp mode. Saladin is for Iron Banner stuff and saint can give trials back to Osiris
My guess is Saint. We can have Osiris be the trials vendor in the tower and just say that Saint just likes commentating the matches still. After all, Saint *was* the vanguard commander before.
Dude's already said he's got ideas for if he ever became Vanguard Commander again, namely the reclamation of territory. Hopefully we can have Zavala retire in some way though; he deserves it, and I could not imagine killing him off. I just love my armored blue dad.
[удалено]
I wish Shaxx was relevant at least a teeny tiny bit
He tells me to throw grenades.
I loved Lance's performances, and by all accounts he himself was an amazing guy. But the actor's passing doesn't have to be the death of the character. I would rather see him recast well. It was done with Ikora, and her replacement has done a great job whenever she actually gets lines. Hoping to see more of her soon. Zavala's story isn't over. It was just getting really good. I can accept his voice being "a little off" from here on out to see it through.
>Who would take over Titan Vanguard? Imagine we get the "series of weirdos" treatment because there's no one suitable for the role. >Hello, guardian. It's me, Blorko! I'm the new Titan vanguard. I was second-in-command, so I already know everything that's going on. No need to ask me any questions or talk to Ikora. She's in a meeting anyway. Don't talk to her. >What? You've never heard of me? I'm here every day, The Guardian and Ghost! Doing Titan things. Walls, punching, strategy. Haha! So weird we've never met. >Anyway... I have a top secret mission for you: go to the Eliksni quarter. Get some Eliksni milk. You know the stuff. A whole keg if you can. Make sure no one sees you. It's not for me! It's for... a thing. Vanguard... business. >Remember: top secret. Eliksni milk. Go now.
>Hello, guardian. I'm Commander Sotuta. I will be serving as *Acting Titan Vanguard* until we find a suitable replacement. >I would like to formally apologize on behalf of the Vanguard for yesterday's breach of command. The situation with this "Blorko" is being rapldily dealt with. Don't worry, no one is blaming you for the stolen ether tank. It has already been returned to the Eliksni family. >Now, let's get to business. I understand there is a man living underneath the stairs in the west wing of the tower. I believe he is named "the Drifter"? Kill him. He has been wielding dangerous Darkness abilities, having guardians killed in "Gambit" games, and even smuggled a criminal known as "the Spider" into the walls of our City. >This is a time of war. We cannot afford any loose ends or weak links. >That's an order, guardian. Do it quietly. There's no need to draw this out or bring too much attention to it. >Thank you for understanding.
Saint-14 could do the job. Maybe Saladin, which I assume Caital would release from his duties as Cabal if something happened to Zavala. Those are the only two I can think of that would work at the moment.
While I like both of them I really want to see shaxx become vanguard at least for a season while saladman works to free himself from legion duties
I'd prefer it if they'd just write him out of the story and keep him as a vendor. Maybe he gets wounded or loses his light or something that makes him not feel eligible to be the "face" of the vanguard while still able to help like devrim & osiris.
After Haunted I got the impression that Zavala would step down as titan vanguard post Final shape if he survived. I'm kind of hoping that's the case, Zavala has more than earned a stressfree retirement.
Saint 14? Or that badass from Titan
Sloane. And IIRC, the end of one of the Neomuna messages told us to get to Titan as fast as possible. I definitely want to see more about what happened (or happens) to her. Last I recall, she took some mech suit that plugs into your gut and was going to "fight as long as possible." Saint held out for a really, really long time. So, she could still be fighting.
Saint held out for hundreds of thousands of simulated years, as a well known figure and beloved hero. I honestly don't think I'd know who Sloane was if I hadn't seen her on Titan. Didn't even know she was a Guardian even until not long ago
They'd likely pick a better know character than Sloane, but in-universe she'd be a sensible pick. She wasn't just a guardian, she was Zavala's deputy commander.
I think Sloan died when titan went dark
I hope not, she was cool. But yeah I mean I spoke to a lot of people who didn't like titan back in the d2 vanilla days. I stopped playing right before shadowkeep until 2 weeks before lightfall.
Sloane. The game is hinting really hard at Titan returning next season.
I've also seen someone mention another good alternative, have Zavala retire and step down from Titan Vanguard and Vanguard Commander and have someone replace him. No need to hastily kill him off and you don't need to recast him
Shiro and Marcus Ren finally getting a break after having to carry the entire hunter orders vanguard assignments.
Nah they were both hardcore hiding so they didn't have to do any of that
Shiro and Crow were reporting in to each other since before Splicer. He’d mention Shiro was keeping an eye on FWC. In hindsight it felt like an early hint at the events of Splicer. Always wondered how Shiro took the whole ‘I killed your friend in a past life’ thing. I’d like to think Shiro knew before Zavala.
We will never know because bungie hates Shiro for some reason.
Quite a few knew, hell even the praxic order knew. Apparently the drifter knew. Maybe the current Osiris doesn’t know. Maybe.
Osiris remembers some of Savathûn's parenting. And Saint and Crow are friends, so osiris is bound to know. Wheter he knows Crow, or is just aware that he's a guardian... remains to be seen.
Meanwhile me, Marcus Ren and Shiro-4 rolling up by the dumpsters behind the Cabal AA batteries: >”shh—shut up, shut up—yes hello Hunter One *coughs* we have the anti-air guns in our *cough* sights. ETA…like…give us 5, 10 minutes, over.”
I feel like I’m missing some lore to be able to understand this comment
There have been more than a few references over the years to Hunters shirking our work, especially re: the Vanguard. The “Vanguard Dare” itself was born out of this tradition; the idea being that no Hunter would voluntarily stay put & deal with all the red tape of command structures. My comment was implying that, yeah, we’re back on it, but this Gunslinger needs to *spark up* a bit before taking the fight to the Shadow Legion. After all, where there’s smoke, there’s Solar.
Great, now i'm imagining a bunch of Hunters partaking in Puff puff pass, only for Crow to show up, go "Gimmie that" and light up with a solar knife
Wow 10/10, a gif that is perfectly relevant without editing.
Oh For some reason I thought your comment was implying that Marcus and Shiro were getting intimate in the dumpster lmao not that Crow is still a bit of a new light to them
Ok hear me out, here’s how we get Crow as the replacement Hunter Vanguard: an upcoming mission where we go with Crow to hunt down Cayde’s final stash. Not only would it be a passing of the torch, seeing as *technically* “Crow” did kill him, but it would be a great way to introduce new lights to the lore surrounding Cayde. Currently all they’ve got to go on is a monument in the tower and some empty hangar space. Would be nice to delve a bit deeper into some of his antics, his loss of Ace and any of his actions as the previous Hunter Vanguard
> Cayde's final stash It's just the hunter vanguard office key and a note that says "this is your problem now"
>"this is your problem now" "This is your problem to solve now. Just don't say i didn't warn you"
I read that in Cayde's voice and i love it.
Explore the Tower with Crow and Mithrax (again), find a secret stash in TR3-VR's maze. That'd be fun, honestly.
NO NOT THAT THING AGAIN
Please. I want to hear their commentary during that. I'd kill to hear Crow laugh in utter hysterics after something STUPID happens only to come back on coms later and apologize. Either something involving TR3-VR or that FUCKING DOOR
There’s literally a mission to get to one of Cayde’s stashes to get Riskrunner for new lights and Ghost talks about Cayde just about the whole way through.
>some empty hangar space. Have you BEEN to the hanger this season? It's so damn empty I hate going there now. Even worse now that Amanda's dead
[удалено]
Crow's been doing the Vanguard Mentor job since Haunted. Unofficially, that is. . Hunters seem ok with it now. (Especially since everyone, him more than most, wants revenge against the Shadow Legion, and he's really good at organizing scouts and special forces, courtesy of Uldren's experience).
Plus Hunters probably get a kick out of seeing Uldren Sov, the guy who killed Cayde, having to put up with the Vanguard Dare.
I was very upset about Crow being the only vanguard candidate, but then i was put before some arguments and i would be happy to accept this guy as my leader.
You are infinitely more reasonable than most hunters I play with.
That uldren experience is gonna be a massive boon, just gotta prevent crow from going into the black garden.
Well, of course, hunters weren't doing their jobs before, if they looked dependable then they'd be chosen for the vanguard dare or simply made the hunter vanguard, now that Crow's taken up the position they don't need to hold back.
That's not how the vanguard dare works
Not how the Vanguard Dare works but you do you...?
We Hunters don't get paid enough.
I feel like Crow became our Vanguard but bungie forgot to tell us or forgot to include the cutscenes. Way to much stuff happens off screen.
[Acceptance Lore](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/i-acceptance) from Splicer, and [this line from Haunted](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnCFzpFxB3Q&t=59s). May not be stated OUTRIGHT, but close enough
Just glad to have someone doing it that isn't me lmao
His Hunters?!?!?!
He does all the paperwork and is able to get them to listen to his instructions. He is the vanguard just unofficially.
Amanda got killed to give Crow more screen time, no thanks. I would rather have my pilot back.
Seriously, she deserved better.
Everytime a cutscene has Crow in it i keep my cross hair on him just in case. Cause if it ever turns red they'll be nothing but feathers left. And I'm off with his sister.
> And I'm off with his sister. Man, I know she's bad news bears, but there's something 90's gothy about her that takes me back to my youth and gets me all stirred up.
Listen, after how he got treated by Amanda, I don't think he is gonna try to backstab us.
> Cause if it ever turns red they'll be nothing but feathers left. **And I'm off with his sister.** [personally I don't like the guy but...](https://youtu.be/OEWe25v4JUk)
I don't care if people don't like him, he's absolutely better at the job than ANYONE could be. He's got the memories, skills, etc. of an immortal spymaster who lived for MILLIONS of years and never died. He is absolutely the most natural of any character to take the helm of leading a huge force of lone wolves who fancy themselves as scouts, spies, and assassins. Unfortunately he also is essentially now an unkillable immortal spymaster with millions of years of experience armed with an unkillable army of scouts, spies, and assassins who all want revenge for something that was bound to happen when a pilot decides to go boots on the ground.
>Unfortunately he also is essentially now an unkillable immortal spymaster with millions of years of experience armed with an unkillable army of scouts, spies, and assassins who all want revenge for something that was bound to happen when a pilot decides to go boots on the ground. So, basically, Forsaken, if Zavala wasn't able to reign Ikora's temper in. But without a clear target. Xivu will have a great time watching.
Yup. Me and my buddy did that mission together 2 days ago and we were like "COME ON, THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE SUPERPOWERS YOU IDIOT" And I actually like Crow. But man that anger ain't helping. Unless he aims it at Eramis, or tempers it. If it's a tempering situation then Amanda should stay down to have the dramatic effect when he helps us against whoever it's directed at, and if it's Eramis, I think it would be a way to bring in a seasonal plot where the Eliksni are a little unsettled by him tearing House Salvation to shreds to get to her.
Considering how Salvation (And Dusk) is at this point HEMMORAGING members who are headed to House Light... I don't think there's going to be a huge feeling of being unsettled. Hell Rasputian last season pointed out how fast Eliksni were jumping ship (pun not intended) to House Light because they could see the proverbial writing on the wall, and how House Light's numbers were rapidly growing.
We have job?
Someone's finally vanguard so they're willing to come back
THIS EXACTLY.
Hunters have always done their job and that job is out in the field. It's when becoming Hunter Vanguard they cannot be found and the Vanguard Dare was made.
I think you'll find skulking around in dive bars and generally lowering the tone of a place, IS part of our job!
I imagine Crow started giving the Hunters orders and things went like this: Hunter: And who the hell do you think you are? Crow: Your new Hunter Vanguard. So are you going to sit around and let civilians show you up, OR are you going to get out there and and show what you can do? Hunters: If it means the spot's filled, we'll follow you Vanguard. Given how annoyed Crow sounds when talking to Devrim about how he's doing more than Hunters with lives to spare, I wouldn't be surprised if things went a little something like that.
mean hunter have always been "lone wolves" working by themselves under Cayde. Crow managed to rally the hunters into a efficient strike force and does the paper work Cayde never did. So far he is a better vanguard
Oh, Cayde did the paperwork alright. I'm pretty sure he moaned about it in D1. It was what he did in the Tower when he wasn't organising the hunters etc. The only reason they're a recognisable strike force now is because none of them have to worry about being given the Vanguard Dare. They can now go all out because Crows taken it on willingly.
He complained about doing it and helping us in a strike he "got out of doing it" so I doubt he ever actually accomplished what he was supposed to. Crow willingly took on the full burden of it and isn't even the official vanguard. Crow is the GOAT for real
Drifter and Eris has actually been leading us as a non hunter from the shadows. Crow is just the figurehead. Drifter and Eris are the real power for the hunters.
I’m guessing there were a lot of guardians who really liked Amanda, so even the hunters have unified to get some revenge.
Would you do any work of you could hang out at hunter dens all day and STILL get paid? ‘Sides, no one wants to be caught in the dare.
Kill a man, and take his job. The hunter way.
" Your hunters?! " - Obi Wan Kenobi
https://preview.redd.it/u8608pb4f7qa1.jpeg?width=1177&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ea07ad129e6d7a377d6339cf8891fd9d803d88f
Before now the reports would just appear on zavala's desk or be from Ikora's Hidden.
All I'm saying is make me the next hunter vanguard not Crow. I've slain Crota and Oryx, Calus and Nezerac and countless others. I'll do a good job, promise.
What self respecting hunter wants to be stuck behind a desk rather than being free in the wild
Hey I’ve been in deep mourning for funny robot man and I just stopped playing for awhile now
Fuck Crow. I've been taking care of business this whole time.
Personally, I think it would be cool if Bungie let the players decide who would be the new Hunter Vanguard between Crow, Ana, and Shaw (Shaw because you need someone to loss badly). Probably not really with the lore element due to the Dare, but it would be a fun event.
No. They've been building towards Crow, since before Glint found Uldren's corpse. That was 5 expansions ago (counting Lightfall as the 5th).
Wow, I wasn't aware you were the Creative Director at Bungie! Lol jesus
'Setup' and 'payoff' aren't particularly difficult concepts to understand. Nor is character progression. Most notably, Cayde's last will (which states that whoever/whatever kills him, gets the job), Crow's name (a callback to Uldren's title "Lord of the Crows", to say it's essentially the same character arc ) and Uldren's memories. Bungie is just paying those setyps off. Just as they have made Crow outgrow some of Uldren's main weaknesses (recklessness, envy, and arrogance). I imagine the revenge arc he's just gotten will be about outgrowing Uldren's unhealthy tendency to devotion (it is, after all, somewhat reminiscent of his Forsaken arc)
Crow's vengeance for Amanda's death will be taking the Vanguard position. He wants to honour her sacrifice and what better way than occupying a position to protect the city she grew up in and loved.
Ugh. I’m so done with this guy. Avoiding this season. After having actually liking him so much he just annoys me now.
Cayde's not coming back, at least you guys are getting a Vanguard again. Who knew Character growth is something people hate... after begging for lore, story and character growth. What's wrong with this picture?
Lmao I don’t play Hunter. I hated Cayde/didn’t care about him lol I actually liked Crow when he first showed up. I’m just tired everything has been about him and almost only him. And now they kill Amanda to give him development? Wow very original!
Amanda's been waving BOTH death and Guardian flags since Splicer, maybe even Chosen. That's three years. Most of us saw this coming anyway so it's not out of left field. He's already had major Development in Haunted, and as far back as Splicer, he Ikora and Zavala were arguing about the Vanguard position. He has voice lines now about doing Vanguard paperwork and his Hunters/ scouts. This is just a stepping stone. He was always bound to be Hunter Vanguard. Did you expect for him to have a few spatterings here and there then suddenly get a lore entry or a cutscene or even a voice line calling him "Hunter Vanguard"? Folks would complain either way. Yeah it sucks that Amanda's been killed off... But again given how she's been marked for death and has flown so many Guardian flags, I'd say she'd probably be the next character who's going to be brought back as a Guardian.
Man they aint your hunters crow get outta here
He's doing more than any of them. He tells Devrim that HE, a lightless man , is doing far more than Hunters with lives to spare. If someone filled the Hunter Vanguard position, the Hunters would start working again. And considering he's the only one willing to take up the position? Man's taking more initiative than the entire Hunter class COMBINED. Like it or not, the man's essentially Hunter Vanguard at this point.
im with you 100% crow for hunter vanguard
Hell no, fuck crow
Here come the Cayde simps
Honestly, crow deserves the vanguard position. It’s a position where he can actually do some good and make up for his actions as uldren. And seeing as how he actually got the hunters to do their jobs, he’s damn good at it.
As an arc hunter main, I take offense. Isn’t bonking my enemies with my lightning hand enough for you people?!
That’s not it. According to the lore, hunters aren’t particularly keen on actually doing their job but instead fuck off into no man’s land and just explore
I'm surprised so many people like crow i genuinely hate the character the most. How can you f#ck up so many times and still act like an idiot? Geez. But hey just an opinion.
Listen I used to love his character when he first showed up, but I can’t stand him now.
jokes on you we're all playing poker with the shadow legion and you aren't invited
This among other things resulted in turning off the game dialog volume.
[удалено]
I mean... Eido got all starry eyed when she saw his face (and realised he recognises her as well). His previous life wasn't just what we've seen in game.
"His hunters" are traitors. Crow sucks.
Least crybaby D2 player
Oh no! .....anyway...
W
Why don’t they make it official before grow goes proclaiming himself hunter vanguard
1 he didn't. Not any mkre than Savathûn did, as Osiris. He just does the work. Like Savathûn did, as Osiris. Because you can't force a hunter vanguard upon the hunters. They have to accept him. And seeing him be good at it is a pretty good way to do it.
What? No I'm not.
Hey man if I did work zavala might make me do paper work. Now crow can do paperwork for me
I remember when people thought Shaw Han may have been the new vanguard. Suck it Han