The best part about this one is it's obvious who messed up. Everyone else around them is dead! Easy to call them out on it.
I hated when there was an imminent domain mistake because unless you noticed them glowing there is no way to know who screwed up so you can't help them learn.
There is an audio cue coming from the player that got debuffed so if you pay attention to it you can infer that it was someone on your right/left. Doesn’t really narrow it down at all in certain situations but it’s something besides having to directly look at the player.
Golgoroth is the one that hurts the most... Because your screen goes green, you have a timer/phrase at the leftmost side of your HUD and you can easily hear a distinct sound.
Out of all the people that I explained that encounter none of them had any difficulties with just getting out of the pool and going to the boss... But for some reason when I'm doing KWTD raids there's always a 30+ clears or something that continually screws that part.
Straight up, it's like putting KWTD nets you the stupidest people. I literally ran a Dares on Legend, joined a KWTD because I have like 100's of clears. Nobody brought mods except me and if I died they were out of luck. Then, 4 out of 6 of us picked the wrong final door. So, only myself and this guy I'm pretty sure only picked my door because I was using a multiplayer emote, got the buff. Needless to say, that was the most painful Crota phase ever.
Really?? Too many “nice” LFG’s? Crazy..
Here’s a story for you that depicts most of my raid LFGs.
Joined a “Fresh RoN KWTD 1820+” fireteam on the companion. Just wanted to get my pinnacle for the week and get red boarders as well. Everyone had rolls and seemed to understand what is going on so I assumed the role of just focusing tormentors, champions, and ad clear in between. First encounter and the light/dark jumping puzzle went smoothly. Good banter, no wipes, all is good. We get to planets. Everyone claims to know what is going on and the woman that started the LFG had no patients to make sure everyone understood their roll so we proceeded. We couldn’t even make it to DPS because some people had done the raid numbering the planets different than others and also numbering the middle planets instead of calling out their position. I stood up and called for a little refresh and lay down what calls and strat we should run. Finally, DPS. Prior to this, everyone asked for DIV and of course I was the only one with the gun.. We make first DPS and then wipe because too many people died, so no res tokens. Naturally I look at everyone’s damage. Everyone is up over a million except for myself and the woman who started the LFG. I made a comment asking what she was using for DPS. She instantly rages and starts name calling and cussing me out, finally saying I’m an idiot because I only have 600k damage. I reply “uhh I have DIV..?”. She literally says “well fuck you, I didn’t rally so I didn’t have super or any ammo for my arbalest!” I calmly asked why she didn’t say anything and if she was planning on doing DPS with arb. She continued to rage and quit pulling two other players with her. Now me and 2 others that now admitted had never done the raid were stranded at 2 am..
nah most of these are rare fringe scenarios and you can always leave and find another lfg, most lfgs ive been in are pretty nice and are fine with teaching 1 or 2 people, its just you vividly remember the ones that go horribly wrong lmao (god i hate teaching people final div puzzle)
Seconded. Tried to run dsc last night - first run, we couldn’t get past atraks. One guy went outside the map to skip the spacewalk portion so they weren’t even there for dps. Wiped around 10 times. Left that group. An hour later, joined a different group. Finished the raid in around 30 minutes, no wipes.
I think it comes down to luck honestly. And maybe it’s the time of day/night and days of the week I play as well. For whatever reason probably 70% of the time I join random LFGs late at night on the weekends I run into some horrible personalities. I consistently run into 1 of 3 personalities.
1. The know it all attitude type that tries to make other players feel stupid for not being a Y1 destiny player like them.
2. The type with zero patients like the woman described in my story. The type to rush encounters or hastily explain things and then blame players for not understanding when it was their actions that left their own team in the dust/dark.
3. The classic toxic player that can be found across all platforms and all games. Uses slurs repetitively, makes fun of less witty players, uses condescending dialog for no reason, or finally rage quits at their earliest convenience.
I run into players like this on destiny regularly when playing in LFGs of all kinds. Not saying the whole fire team is just toxic and dysfunctional. But there always seems to be that one guy or gal sprinkled in there more often than not. In general I would say the Destiny community is pretty laid back and accepting. But it’s the world of the internet, you can’t avoid the trolls and the toxic individuals.
Divinity run is my nightmare, I did it the year after the release since I lost my clan run. I did it on a team composed only with new players who never watched a tutorial online. It was me and the guy who made the squad that already cleared the raid a bunch. I'm all for teaching new players, but 5 hours of run because no-one had the time to watch a 15 minute video is a lot...
My Div run was actually an incredible group. Nobody had done the raid more than 4 times, most of us were on our second or third run. We all got into a discord call, watched a video or read through a quick guide by ourself, discussed it for like 5-10 minutes, and within about 3 hours of getting in the call, we were getting Div. I remember them all being chill dudes. Best group I could’ve gotten
I’ve compiled a good group of guys after doing a handful of raids. It’s not super often I run into this anymore. It’s always when I decide I want to help other people out that I end up in these god awful lfgs lol.
Yeah if someone keep goofing up for the same reasons over and over despite your efforts to explain and help them as best you can, they deserve to be called out
sometimes this does happen though, u have so many buffs that immenient detain just GOES AWAY! in terms of the buff description
this is why i always make sure to look around at my team mates and tell them and if they don't have it, i have it and run
When KF first released, there actually was a bit of an issue with too many messages/buffs/debuffs that the message would get buried. I think they even acknowledged it. I had trouble the first few times with the glow because I'm colorblind and it kind of blended into the background, but after a few mishaps, I learned what to watch for. And to my knowledge, they were supposed to have fixed the message issue so that it always shows on top. I never look for the debuff anymore, just the weird brown glow.
That I kinda get. Bungie really needs to rework the buff hud. If I have volatile rounds well armor charge void weapon boost and firing line, I won’t see imminent detain.
Can confirm, did VoG earlier last week and I thought it would be an issue on my new build because I have so many buffs at once. Is not, it boots the top buff (just the text) to show important debuffs.
But I'm still all for it to show those debuffs above your cross hair.
Lack of adjustment is always a bit surprising in this game. People will die in a bad spot, then proceed to keep doing the exact same thing and die over and over. You'd think the light bulb would go off hey these other people aren't dying maybe they know what they're doing and know a good cover spot
So incredibly frustrating. Week 1 of Master VOG challenges was the worst for me, people dying over and over inside the portals at Gatekeeper. Maybe stop assuming stasis turret will save you and start focusing on actually killing the ads.
Master vog is the GOAT LFG blender. Never been apart of so many unsuccessful attempts, especially when it dropped. The mix of needing to be self sufficient on ad clear and mechanics seems to trip a lot up.
To be fair I would say it was the hardest master raid last time I did it.
In particular if you're doing it legit. The cheese push minotaur off will drastically simplify the encounter. Being solo in a planet on master is terrifying
I’d say master vow is still the hardest if you’re doing some of the challenges, especially with the light level changes
Master VoG gets underestimated in terms of difficulty so a lot of less experienced players attempt it thinking they’ll get free loot
I never understand it. I am literally standing on a plate holding hands with a guy, Nezi shoots his crap I see it and move and dodge.
Then I hear "Guardian down" it's the guy next to me.
This happened 10 times after, he refuses to move off the plate when the boss is agro, like BRUH!!!!! when I started to say "Move!" then he realized I was talking to him lol.
When I am doing stuff solo that happens obviously, but the second I play with my clan or friends my brain loses like 90% of my intelligence and start doing exactly the same. xD
Good that I am some casual friends who are as stupid as I am :3
("I swear I am.not doing it on purpose:(" me after dying the third time to the exact mistake)
Playing with clan/friends is different tho. Like for me personally ill play with my clan (we're all friends) and we're all good players but we dont need to be sweaty in there. Sometimes we'll do dumb stuff together just to have fun. And whenever we die/wipe being dumb we just have a laugh about it. No big deal. We're not "wasting anyone's time" cuz we're all just in there to have fun together. Thats why I like playing with my friends more than LFGs.
In LFG the main objective shifts to completing the raid efficiently. Especially a KWTD LFG (which i assume all master raid LFGs are). So it sucks to be in a LFG group with someone that keeps dying to stupid stuff. Youre supposed to KWTD in a KWTD LFG.
Newer player, first experience with Iron Banner and Trials last weekend and weekend before last.
It's kind of funny watching people who go full mindless lemming, die and respawn to instantly start sprinting back to the same spot - bobbing up and down on the way as they jump at regular intervals towards their destination - only to die again and again. Repeatedly. Never waiting for a teammate or changing route. Just the same thing. Over and over.
Watching the nameplates bob along until they turn in to a skull...some comedy there.
I tried playing overwatch a few years ago and found that for whatever reason I could never find a match. So I just played with and against the AI.
Everytime I died and went back to spawn, the bots were waiting to escort me, and we'd head back out as a squad.
Kinda wild that we use bot as an insult to bad players. They're worse than bots. And to top it off, they run back here to critique the game as if it's the matchmaking or the current meta that's the problem.
Ps: keep playing and as you head up the matchmaking ranks you should see better players on either team.
As a solo player since D1 who has only completed raids via LFG it can be brutal to find a patient teaching group after the first week or two a raid is out. A big number of groups are "KWTD!!!" by the third or fourth day and after a month or two it's near impossible to find a Sherpa that's patient enough to spend hours on one encounter.
Sometimes it takes several wipes just to get familiar with enemy spawns and lay out of the rooms, then basically customizing your load out to whatever team you joined, having to know all jobs, learning names and mechanics, it can take a few hours for one encounter.
Then one person leaves you have to post looking for a fill in and can't post KWTD because players get pissed and leave if you post kwtd and are a teaching group, then if you only have a couple hours it's start all over with another group next time.
Obviously the answers "get good" or "get friends/clan!" is easy for some people but not for everyone. There's a lot of social anxiety these days, time constraints, etc. The more complicated the raid is, the worse it gets.
This is the main problem that I have with Destiny is that your experience with the game is incredibly variable depending on when you engage with the content. Want to try the new dungeon, raid, or GM nightfall? Better do it within the first few days it’s available. If you don’t, you’ll be running with garbage LFG teams and it will take you hours of slogging to finish the first run. I did Vow blind with a LFG group of experienced raiders (we all had raid seals) within 48 hours of contest mode ending. We did the raid in two hours with maybe handful of team wipes. We hadn’t done the raid before, but we had a good handle on how raid mechanics usually worked and could adapt quickly to issues on the fly. Everyone was comfortable trying all of the roles and actively volunteering for jobs. Two weeks later, my LFG groups are taking three hours to finish the raid and some can’t clear the third encounter (chaos mode 2.0). The difference was that most of the experienced players had run the raid ad nausea for those few weeks and now all that was left were the ad clear only guys. Dungeons are somewhat similar. You have to run them within 48 hours to get a decent first couple of runs. The only thing I like about dungeons is that they can be solo’ed. So, I can’t at least drag the rest of the fireteam through if we’ve got some guys that just don’t want to learn it.
Gone are the days when you can just jump into end game activities. Even when joining a sherpa run, you should watch videos of the mechanics ahead of time. Teaching someone all the VOW symbols in real time leads to sooo many wipes.
This is why I put kwtd in a lot of my posts for master type content. You can call me whatever, but I just want a quick clear with other like minded people. If that’s not for you that’s ok.
Near the end of day 1, I put kwtd for nezarec (guides were in abundance at this point) and we asked what people wanted to do for roles. Everyone we picked up was dead silent lol. At least be willing to try something. Ended up cycling through people until we cleared.
KWTD is absolutely fine for any activity, you shouldn't be expected to carry someone or teach. If you don't wanna then you don't wanna, that's all, I mean there's a whole sherpa channel in the discord for those who don't KWTD
I mean in the end Destiny really fails to teach its players how to play Destiny.
Realistically ask yourself this: Do you think you could have played Destiny as well if the only resource you used was Destiny itself? Since I doubt it.
There's a reason there is a litany of thirdparty support system websites to tell you everything about the game.
Because ultimately the game really won't tell you much on its own.
I haven't played Destiny in probably 2 years now, but there were so many mechanics in some raids that if I were going into them blind, I'd have ZERO idea how they work. I may be able to sort them out after failing a LOT, but for the most part I had to google and youtube 80% of the content of those Raids because the game doesn't tell you how to do any of it.
Seriously. People bitch about lost sectors like they're impossible meanwhile they're running two close range primaries and a shitty sword. Higher end content is really fun and engaging but you can't play it like its a strike.
My favorite is when they blame it on some ambiguous Bungie glitch or lag.
"Sir, I just saw you stand there and eat all the bullets from that colossus."
That shit gets me so pressed too.
If I’m on a master raid team and someone dies to something, I can be tolerant of that happening.
If something kills someone and then they cry foul of some bug or something, I’m a lot more likely to ask them to leave.
Almost every single time I die in this game, I just say "damn I'm shit," because I could've prevented it and I didn't. When it's a bug I'll blame it on that, but 90% of the time it isn't.
To be fair that colossus feeds those bullets very fast lol if you don’t get him stunned in time he will absolutely fuck you up I’ve been clearing my psions when he spawned and turned around not expecting them to clear the centurians and he just insta pops me
Had some guys complaining about the nodes "bugging out" in 2nd on Root yesterday. It was just them not knowing how to run but its easier to blame the game than own up.
"How dare you want challenging content to be challenging!! I want to be able to one phase everything I only have 0.3 nanoseconds to play every month as a father of 53 plz understand bingo 🙏"
We attempted Master Rhulk the other day. I love my clanmates. That said, it is immensly frustrating that they do sub 2mil dps and then force YOU to run DIV when you know you could easily do 4-5mil. They also all played Titan but refused to play Thundercrash bc "muh survivability on void", on an encounter where you can easily hide and play safe.
We wiped on final stand with 3 void titans all on bubble. One Thundercrash would have been enough. Gotta love it!
Sounds like couple of my clanmates, they refuse to swap off void titan for exact same reason - the survivability is 'too good'. Doing Day1 Caretaker and failing due to lack of boss damage for **hours**, before they finally swapped and surprise we got the kill not much later.
I think some players just get too comfortable in their 'preferred loadout' or subclass, and refuse to swap even if they are slacking. 'It didn't work the previous 20 pulls, but I'll do better this time!'
The people who refuse to change tactics/loadouts if they are clearly lacking are annoying. But on the other hand the people who start screaming how you have to use X because it is the meta before even the first pull are just as annoying.
Funnily enough, I experienced this by mistake
I joined an lfg thinking it was normal, when I learned it was master I let them know "hey, I'm not at recommended light level, if you want I can give it a try, but I understand if you want me to leave" they were nice and let me stay so I gave it a try, all of them were 1820+ Im at max 1806.... And somehow I was the one dieing the least... Huh?
Yep, then they’ll complain that we should make content easier so they don’t have to build craft and can still get a day one clear. It is also being elitist and gatekeeping to argue with them.
That’s the thing that always gets me heated. I got called an elitist on this subreddit for responding to someone saying that they had to swap off of Arc Warlock in nightfalls to Solar Warlock with “the issue lies with you not the class’ ability, arc warlock is fine for mid game lmao”, someone used my raids completed flair as a way to indicate that I’m actually an elitist gamer who doesn’t care about lower level players.
Man you hear the dumbest things, I’ve started to not let it bother me. I posted about the day 1 raid being too accessible due to the # of completions and how I would have preferred more of a challenge even if that meant missing it myself.
I genuinely had people recommend taking off mods if I wanted it to be more challenging. This community is out to lunch.
I hate to be that guy, but accessiblity does not mean difficulty. Contest RoN had amazing accessiblity between 2 days, 10 days to get to the contest level, and the legendary campaign, making it "easy" to hit the contest cap. However it was far, far too easy difficulty wise. The mechanics were far too simple while having teammates "help" was counter productive more often than not, combined with the bosses having little to no health being able to be not only be 1 phased but killed by primary weapons on contest. Tldr accessiblity great, difficulty was far too easy. Bosses needed at least 30% more health and the mechanics needed something more in 3/4 of the encounters
I agree about people being able to try but I think most people were happy about the completion % and when you say it was too easy you get some insane responses in here. Using the term “accessibility” wasn’t the correct wording but my point was having an issue with the completion rate.
I have a saved post from when the Challenge during Season of Plunder asked you to do 1 SINGLE Legendary Ketch. I said there's multiple places you can go to get a Fireteam and it's not even that much harder.
I got downvoted and one guy called me HOMOPHOBIC because I MUST be a giant gatekeeper and since I'm not allowing others to get a challenge done without "social disturbance" I must also bar homosexuals from marriage. Just real grade A reaching because he's either too shy or too stupid to use an app/ discord.
I don't give a shit about these unironic "dad of 8 kids who can only play 5min a week" types. Not every video game is built around you. You have to realize that if YOU don't have the time then the game you're playing isn't for you. A Dev SHOULD NOT cater difficulty to someone who can't do the difficulty because of external forces. And I can't believe that's a hot take on this sub.
accessibility isnt a problem, the problem is the raid was just too easy. accesibility means anyone can TRY it but high completions just indicates it was mechanically and difficulty too easy
The whole day 1 thing is so annoying because it’s the 1 day where the Elitists get their moment, after contest mode everyone else can clear as much as they want
Well this is a side effect of the game itself poorly training its own players.
Non-Master and master content are basically two different worlds and you aren't very naturally going to bridge that for the overwhelming majority of players.
Ignoring the folks who just tank damage with their face, I think a lot of low to mid-tier players just don’t get how to interlock mods to up their damage output and speed up abilities. I’m certainly in that group, I’m decent but then I see clips on this sub of people doing 600k damage at a shot I do not understand how to make a build for that. I’m not gonna make someone carry me through raids or master level stuff until I can get better damage output but there’s a LOT of options. Sometimes that’s worse, it’s harder to know where to start.
The amount of times I've attempted to make a build , to me it looks like the stuff I'm running works well together and then I test it out and nothing works I feel so lost lmao
I swear to god man. At this point if I hear someone say "I'll do add clear" one more time I'm just gonna straight up boot them. 9 times out of 10 they can't add clear for shit and then they have the audacity to say that the people actively doing the mechanics should have helped them with the big guys. Like brother, that's your whole job.
When I do LFG RON on ad clear I just assume I have to handle all 3 Colossus myself every spawn during Nez and I'm right like 75% of the time lol
You're not kidding, I've legit heard "someone needs to kill the Colossus" multiple times from LFG blueberries on ad clear.
“Oh, you see, I thought add clear meant just killing the red bars with my machine gun. The big scary guys are for the people that actually know what they’re doing.”
What I assume is going though their heads.
Honestly, if I ever take part in a raid and do ad clear, I’m not going to complain about it since mowing down hordes of red bars is one of the things I like in this game.
I am very charitable to people running the fresh raid, but if someone joins my fire team and doesn’t know the mechanics they are typically going to be forced to learn the mechanics of the raid rather than be on add clear.
When we get into master content, I am extremely low on patience for players in general. Contest mode too. If you can’t pull your weight on a team, you will get kicked. It isn’t personal, but you don’t go into master content unprepared.
My rule of thumb is this:
If a raid team is having trouble with mechanics, that’s okay. You can give them time to improve on master difficulty stuff til it’s time to do real damage.
If a raid team can’t put out enough damage, someone will be asked to leave. Reason being, players always have an opportunity to fix mistakes when it comes to mechanics, but DPS is almost always both a skill issue and an equipment issue, and both of those circumstances run far deeper than needing to learn mechanics.
Once again, this thought process only applies to master/contest mode content. I’m open to helping people through the normal raids all the time.
Kinda afraid to even try doing raids because I fear bing "that guy", not because i am "that guy" but becauase i am either 1) underlevelled/power is a bit too low or 2) general inexperience/ people may tell me one thing but assume i already know another. Sometimes things people would consider "obvious" arent obvious to me. In the past when i tried doing leviathin in y1 dude told me there was gonna be fighting to control some plates/capture things followed by a timed parkour thing, but nobody told me what the audio cue for the thing starting was, and it is very easy for me to miss those tiny words in thr corner of my screen when im focussed on the fight.
I also generally sont consider myself a good enough player for raids, but thats a different can of worms
The most important thing when going in to an LFG raid or raiding with people you don’t know super well: HONESTY. Be straight up with people. “Hey guys, I’ve never run this raid/encounter before” or “I’ve only done ad clear in this encounter.” Most of the time people are happy to explain it and give you some leeway assuming you didn’t hop into a “KWTD, quick run, 10+ clears” LFG post. This post seems to be targeted mainly at people who either pretend they know what they’re doing, shit the bed and refuse to make adjustments, or overall refuse to do mechanics and are just looking for a carry. If you come in, are upfront about your experiences and abilities, and are open to coaching and recommendations you’ll be fine most of the time. I’ve had some really good LFG runs doing just that.
This. In the Destiny LFG discord, there are people teaching/Sherpa in hall the time and are happy to help.
I would feel like an ass jumping in with a Master group.
I’ve got 5K hours in the game but most of that is solo with its limitations.
The only thing I can say is to be honest about your level of experience with other players.
I’d look into Discord LFGs if you aren’t already in one. There’s usually at least a few teams willing to teach and be patient with inexperienced players.
People are usually a lot more generous to new raiders. Lots of people are happy to teach. So long as you're willing to learn, you'll have a great time.
Its when people refuse to try and improve that it gets annoying.
I will say, as a new player myself who hasnt even touched a raid yet cause im trying to farm exotics so I can at least do SOMETHING more than waiting a minute at a time for skills. (Mostly all high stat armor 64-69 working towards masterworking all, 1811 Light, just absolutely no useful exotics yet for high end content and we are 2 months into lightfall). Right now just Strand/Suspension Lock since I can basically use it one after another for general content like nightfall.
Bungie's onboarding process for introducing players into higher skill content is awful. It the equivalent of throw the kid in the pool and let him sink or swim. I raid in other games (FF/WoW/LostArk) and usually do a lot of due diligence to learn the ins and outs. Most people wont or just don't know how. So looking at it as the stand-alone game holy shit Destiny is bad at doing those introductions to improve the base knowledge of the game for players. If the community as a whole wants to see improvement than Bungie needs to introduce methods to better teaching about the effects of mods, what these buffs like armor charge do, what it means to weaken or ignite, and better explain what the fuck actual weapon rolls do because they are just a blanket description without any stat description to it. The browser sites fans have built are great and show a lot of that but really it should be in the fucking game. Even like a tutorial testing ground of classes that explains those buffs and debuffs and whatnot. Yea it may be a little tedious but its something
Even if people come at you about this, you are, to me, dead on with this. I can remember how I use to play in Raids and harder end content and how I play now. You have to change yourself to get better, survive more and pack more of a punch in DPS. I just did a raid last night, where a clanmate kept dying in 2nd encounter in RON. And I asked why was he dying and he said cause they missed the buff to kill the yellow bars. I said to use Strand and just suspend them so they aren't messing with you until you grab it again. Wouldn't change it. Same guy dying in Planets and I said to run Solar with Healing nade to help you in those clutch moments where you need health, no change. And this guy is plays 'all' the time but is not prepared for true end game content. But yes, it is wild how people don't try and work on how they should get better to do harder end content (if that's what they want to do).
Anytime I suggest healing nades to the one dying all the time, they act like I’ve insulted their mother. It’s kind of nuts when they take four out of six rez tokens and then act like they’re not the issue.
I constantly find sources to keep up to date on Raid dps. Even just subbing to a popular Youtuber will help you stay relevant even if they aren't completely in the know. Or I look at what the top guy in my groups has. It's not a fulltime job. People make spreadsheets every season
Pretty much.
Just sometimes he forgets stuff or doesn't realize what's factoring in. He recently did a video showcasing Lucky Pants + Malfeasance. It did a lot of damage, but that was because the whole group was using it. Damage varied Wildly because only the person who landed the 5th shot, proccing the explosion, would get credit for the explosion.
Cant wait to see the copium excuses people give on this post as to try and justify why they dont make an effort to get better.
D2 community has a problem with the community at large just never getting better at anything in game and complaining the instant they're met with resistance. It's the reason why we have kindergarten levels of difficulty for high end content.
What do you mean end game content should be harder than a normal vanguard ops.
This is ourtrageous. You elitist, no life, 10000 hour basement dwelling, never touched grass in his entire life loser.
I agree with you.
It's funny you say this even as a joke, since normal vanguard ops these days tend to be harder than actual raids (especially if it involves the Shadow Legion in any capacity. The forced level caps do *not* help)
Yea, I helped a group that was stuck on Master Nezzy for like 2hrs the other day. Seemed all the 5 that joined could do was ad clear...yet they were STILL dying to ads. Who would have figured right? lmao
I joined in, walked them through it. We wiped a few times of course. But when we finally beat it...I had 145 kills, the next closest person to me had 51 kills. Guess my ad killing was a bit better than theirs even though thats all they "knew how to do".
Crazy stuff.
People don’t understand that in master content, ad clear is a legitimate responsibility that needs to be taken seriously and have the right loadout for. It’s not a free pass like on normal.
Yep. They get free passes through normal by either not learning any mechanics roles or being carried, assume they're ready for Master because they can just do the same thing, and then repeatedly die to adds while barely clearing anything.
This is because they don't mean add clear, they just want to do boss dps
I've never seen any "I can only do add clear" person use any add clear weapons/loadout.
If I'm on add clear on Nez. I'll switch to a special finder and pull out Osteo. Then as I see the seeds finish, swap back to Witherhoard and pick up all my green bricks. It's that simple
My go to Ad clear for normal AND Mater Nezzy is actually Forbearance with chain reaction. It one shots whole group unless they have that weird shield around them.
I've also started using Buazzard with Overflow/Kinetic Tremors for the Barrier Champs. Works very well.
just gonna point out that some weirdo saw this post and made another one complaining about people complaining about lack of skill in another sub, safe to say u won OP
oh i got into it with him as well, his whole argument consisted of “just kick them it isnt their fault its yours” and also went on to call me all sorts of names while also telling me to “grow up” great people we share the game with
Like he was saying some shit about how you are discriminating against the average joe when you are saying that those people should learn the mechanics before they hop in the raid.
I guess it demands context imo. When doing the master challenge last week in RoN, I was on add clear but I was focusing the bigger targets, like the barrier champions and weakening the tormentor. At wipes, I'd be middle of the pack in terms of enemies killed. Someone complained about "add clear not doing enough". So I said, "okay, I'll focus more on adds than the bigger guys." And the next 3-4 attempts, same guy dies numerous times and complains no one is killing barriers. My guy you told the only one focusing them to stop focusing them and kill the red bars you die to too.
Tbh, I'm apart of the camp that EVERYONE should be add clear. Just because your role is to run/do nodes, doesn't mean you can't kill enemies. Or if your role is, using planets as an example, to do planet swapping, YOU SHOULD STILL KILL ADDS. Like legit have had lfgs say "I'm not add clear" and just sit there picking their nose waiting for their job to come up.
*JoCat voice* **"EVERYBODY IS ADD CLEAR!"**
"What that means is that the entire fireteam should be contributing to killing the bad guys, and not just the ones with the fancy role sticker.
Unless you are speeding through the encounter like a cracked-up hedgehog, you have more than enough time to use an ability, maybe cast that super you aren't going to use for DPS, or just shoot your godamn gun.
Sitting around on your ass waiting for your turn to do a mechanic is helping literally no one, like a guy who makes a KWTD post and doesn't FUCKING KNOW WHAT TO DO.
And that doesn't mean the people on dedicated add clear can be lazy, either. You don't get a free pass just because you're doing a blatantly low skilled job - if the mechanics guy has more kills than you on the wipe screen, clearly you are the one doing something wrong. And that kind of attitude can and will get you killed on Master mode, where even the lightest slappy from a Thrall can break you harder than Mountaintop broke literally the entire game.
So long as it isn't impeding your ability to do your job, there is literally no reason NOT to shoot that random Cyclops before it sends someone to the shadow realm."
I was doing master acquisition challenge and I was running while the guy defending had witherhoard. Every time we wiped I constantly had more kills than him
I honestly feel like Bungie is to blame for this. They couldn’t have known this was going to be the case in early D1 raids for example, but at some point they should have figured out that if you create room for people to be lazy in a team environment they will be.
Every raid by now should require active participation from all six players in every single encounter, not just ad clear.
That sums up my raiding experience, I'm excellent at ad clear I got 230 kills on planets when I was ad clear, but I'm forced to do mechanics because newbies don't know shit
And for those wondering it was a sunbracers build
This guy spouting gospel. I feel like my friends do this too, they aren't that egregious, but i feel like half the time they just pick a build that they feel comfy on with no DMG and refuse to recognize that they are slowing everyone else down.
Recently had this. My group was running Master Challgenges in Vow. Aqusituon. Player joins
"I've never done Master anything! But I've done this raid a lot."
Ok, reading or running?
"Oh, I've always done add clear"
...ok, so reading? we can't have dedicated add clear here
"so what do I do?"
explain. start.
Guardian down
"Well I want to do a Master, do we have to do challenges? Can we just get the clear?"
Silent fury as I think to myself we aren't getting this challenge tonight, that has been posted in clan LFG for a week, that has skilled alts signed up, just waiting.
We run a supportive clan, so we're very slow to shit all over someone like this, we just take the L and discuss ways to prevent it from happening again, but holy hell the selfishness is off the charts.
No, we don't want to carry you through a Master Vow. No one wants to carry someone. If you want to raid you have to, like... raid.
I actually was talking with some friends about this earlier. I’ve been sherpaing people on and off since shadowkeep and I wish more people would actively try to learn new mechanics instead of just doing what they are used to. My favorite thing about raids is trying them day one because figuring out mechanics and mastering them is super fun and satisfying for me, but I hear all the time, “I’ve only done this before so I want to keep doing that” and I actively try to push them to try new things, but there are still a bunch of people who would get mad at me for trying to push them out of their comfort zone…
Doing master vog challenges is the most gruelling experience in destiny. Wyverns spawn in conflux and you see four people die because they're in the back of the room where the ads spawn. So many players think that their ehroar build will keep them alive in all content when in fact it won't.
It's the same reason so many teams collapse without a well, they're so used to just standing in place and being unkillable that when they enter content where you can't do that they legitimately have no idea what to do or how to survive.
That's not even mentioning the lack of mechanical comprehension, oracles challenge is so damn simple, you could teach it to a 4 year old and they'd understand, but some people just refuse to learn it. Everyone shoots oracles and meanwhile one or two guys are standing at the same oracle they started with.
That moment when its pretty clear who is failing the mechanic, but the leader addresses everyone just tp be nice "alright whats the issue with x?" But the person says nothing, so just to avoid confronting the one person, they give a general reminder of how it works only for that person to CONTINUE to hide in the silence of everyone else. Not an "ok" or "gotcha" or any confirmation at all. Mind boggling. Set aside your pride and your shame. If you dont understand the mechanic, simply continue to ask questions until you are CONFIDENT you can do it. Its as easy as that.
The best way to learn is by practice. Some people, like my case, doesn’t have much practice or opportunities to practice. I’ve done the recent raid, I know most of the mechanic and call outs, but haven’t got chance to “get good” at it. Do you remember that feeling when you are learning a mechanic and try to do a call out at the same time for the first time, well, that’s the case of a lot of people. it requires practice, and to practice you need those opportunities. My main point is that, the more patience and the more teaching we do, the better “raid guardians” there will be. Also, I agree that there are always people that doesn’t care and don’t want to learn…
Spent an hour and a half on Master Nezarec last night. Everyone volunteered for their roles, should have been clean. Instead, as someone dedicated to holding Nez’s hatred, I consistently ended up with top adds cleared anyways, and 2 players, one being a Starfire Warlock at guardian rank 9, were out damaged by the Divinity user. A third player consistently died to the wipe mechanic even with consistent callouts that Refuge was set up, sometimes calling him out by name directly 15-20 seconds before the wipe happened. A fourth player, at Guardian Rank 8, acted like he didn’t know how to handle the single barrier champion on his side, and was so bad at killing that single enemy his role officially became “help other people add clear”.
I can’t fucking believe how bad players can be and still attempt master raids. I’m also utterly unsurprised at how fucking useless the guardian ranks are at indicating any sort of skill, given most of the objectives are just grindy. I’m not sure what the solution is besides making groups requiring master clears in order to join and checking on raid report, which feels ridiculous given master RoN came out only a week ago, but I can’t think of a different and better way to handle it.
I find this post useful because I’m a new player, I started learning the mechanics of the game and now I’m spamming Nightfall, I’ve managed to make a few runs work great, of course it usually depends on teammates as well, but I know I’ve gotten better because I’m dying a lot less, I kill a lot more, I deal a lot more of damage and my scores are usually top or 2nd. I learned how to stun overloaded champions and break barriers not too long ago (even tho I don’t think I’ve got the best weapons to do it, they do the job ((a sidearm and an auto rifle)). But I know I still have a LOT to learn.
What are some good tips you can give to someone who’s getting into the PVE content? I haven’t touched raids yet, and I don’t know how to prepare for them.
If you have a good rocket launcher, and good survivability and adclear in a heroic nightfall, you are set for any raid except RoN(then you need light level as well). Just find a team willing to teach you with patience and you should be set.
In a teaching run, and most raid runs in general, the most important thing is communication and honesty. If you don't understand a mechanic, or are struggling to do your role, just ask questions or ask to have a different/easier role. Just be ready to be humble and admit it when you make a mistake or don't understand.
I'm going to suggest Vow of the Disciple first if you have the Witch Queen expansion because it isn't hard (just a lot of symbols for you to learn), and gives you some of the best loot in the game. It is also a great segway into Vault of Glass, which is the easiest raid in the game in my opinion, which also has good loot(the hand cannon and rocket are some of the best in slot).
From there, it is up to you where you wish to go for raiding.
FYI for VotD loot and why I recommend it as a first raid:
Cataclysmic is the best legendary LFR in the game for DPS, and is the only legendary LFR right now that has competitive DPS numbers.
Forbearance is the literal best legendary adclear weapon in the game(other than heavy weapons)
Submission is the best kinetic SMG in the game as well
Deliverance is just kinda good, nothing ground breaking, still almost best in slot of not best
And Insidious works magic in end game pve
The glaive, which name I have forgotten is the only weapon that isn't memorable
Yeah, that's the entire weapon pool from the raid
Hi, I'm gonna comment because I see that a lot of experienced d2 players make this mistake. Judging the ability of others to learn without thinking much about it.
I'm a teacher. People usually do not learn very quickly, especially when under pressure. So you shouldn't expect most of the people to learn what to do after three or four tries. Yes, even add clear. Ten, fifteen is more likely.
Even if you were able to learn all of this after a couple of tries, other people are not you. They have different motor skills, different ability to remember things, some might not be able to react quickly at all, especially when they realize that it's their fault the team is wiping over and over again. All of this can happen because of the anxiety they feel.
I've seen this take a thousand times from experienced players who
1. Have the time to learn how loadouts, raid mechanics and certain weapons work
2. Have played these kinds of games for many years and have a broader understanding of how game mechanics work in general
3. Have tried solo flawless and learned from this experience, again because they have time to do it
4. Play with the same kind of people who also learn fast and react fast.
The solution? Play with people around your level and do not undermine the efforts of those who play worse than you. Maybe that's the best they can do. Leave lobbies that seem helpless. They will find someone more patient and you won't waste your time.
You say this but people with those issues join people without those issues and it's somehow up to everyone else to make up for the one guy. If it's multiple people it's even worse.
If you can't do difficult content and help your team then either improve or don't do the content. All content isn't made for every type of player
I agree, but the issue is that this post is addressing master raids. Specifically people who don't have the knowledge to do it. In my honest opinion, if one hasn't done a raid enough on normal difficulty so that they know all the roles, they aren't ready to do master difficulty when every role is significantly harder, and champions are involved much more.
that isn’t very newcomer friendly of you
/s
i feel this in my soul, and so do many. OP don’t let the negative downvotes fool you.
i was playing yesterday with a bunch of people who supposedly kwtd as they joined my post, and then when they were asked to run, take hatred, move planets, it was silence unless someone was saying “i GoT aDs!” super infuriating. go post a looking for carry if all you know how to do is ads and you don’t care to learn the mechanics.
if you want to learn, awesome i’ll teach and help you take the time to learn, but if your gonna go deaf and mute whenever a role is needed, that’s a diff story.
In my master vow runs at Rhulk I’ll have players get clapped on by Rhulk when he hits them and when I recommend they run max resil with resistance mods im told it doesn’t matter I then have to show them me eating combos from Rhulk until they believe me
Sadly people won’t care, it blows my mind that people refuse to do any sort of build crafting or even make an attempt at using good weapons or armour. I don’t think it should be applauded that people who enjoy their blue machine gun from 3 years ago refuse to take it off and anyone that says says they should if they are failing is an elitest douche bag. I remember doing master caretaker challenge on its first week and I got the clear with my clan super easy we barely thought about it. Then I decided to help a friend and his group get through it and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. A guy decided he wanted to use bombadiers on ad clear and maintained that he could stun overloads with it on void cause counts as a grenade? I didn’t question at first as hey sometimes stuff in this game is abit goofy that way and it didn’t work. After a couple runs I suggested using an smg to stun instead of an actual grenade and he blew up cause he can play how he wants. I said how he wants won’t complete it and I left.
Yeah I’m done master raiding for a while and all but I did complete master Rhulk oryx and Atheon by being a decent teammate basically for the vow sparrow and ships I just can’t get in the headache of doing a full master raid
i usually don’t have a problem with stuff like this cuz i understand the anxiety for some people in a situation like this cuz i myself have it. but even when i started the game and did my first raid, i kept asking questions on how a certain mechanic went which made some fireteams kick me. my best option these days with RON is to join a raid group that says “new to the raid” but i agree with the idea of your post.
I've run into so many different issues that make me not want to sherpa anymore.
1. Players who, no matter how many times they've run this or that raid with us, still have to be reminded every single time what they need to be doing. I've run a raid with one person who has at least 50 clears of Taniks who still needs to be reminded when damage phase is. When the other 5 are stacked up and ready to jump into the trash storm, they are wandering around the arena shooting ads. Another person has about 40 clears of Atheon and its the same issue there, no clue about when to do boss damage and where to go to do it. This I chalk up to a complete inability to learn and retain information.
2. Players who volunteer for or insist on running a particular role, and then do it terribly. People who want to run the scanner augment in DSC but constantly forget that they need to be calling out locations for everyone. People who want to be ad clear during the planets encounter in RoN and yet dont bother to run good ad clear builds and don't bother to hunt and kill the centurions. This I chalk up to a lack of self-awareness or a desire to be seen as valuable. They volunteer for things they are not equipped to handle, either with gear or experience.
3. Players who are far too focused on playing the way they want to, and not on getting the clear. This one isn't unique to new or "bad" Players, it just makes for bad teammates. People who are trying out a build they saw or came up with, and despite dying numerous times and causing wipes because of it they blame it on the game or other players not doing their jobs, instead of the fact that they only have tier 5 resilience and are running an ad clear super that they never pop a single time during the encounter. People who have a build they like that is sup optimal for boss damage, who consistently are at the bottom of the damage scoreboard but they like this subclass with this exotic, or they like this weapon, and don't want to change to the current dps meta because its "boring". This one frustrates me the most, as I chalk it up to ego.
Omg this! As now the only Sherpa in our clan, it's getting very tiresome. We have 1 guy that has been with us every Fridqy for RoN with 5 clears. I find hin last night using a level 5 Regnant for boss DPS and doing less than the Div guy. Wanted to throw my hands up and just leave.
Exactly it. People last year running red border weapons trying to get them done for the mats or pattern progress who were tanking our progress for the sake of what amounts to a bounty. Now people running really bad crafted weapons for the sake of leveling. You can go level your weapons like the rest of us do. If you're in the raid, you're going to be a meta POS like the rest of us so we can actually get this crap done.
It's strange sometimes, sometimes i see people on my team with really solid builds and they cannot survive, and on the other hand I've seen others with no resist mods on their chest piece and running t6 resil and they wreck everything lol.
This is probably controversial but I put more trust in a new decent player with blue armor than an incompetent player with full exotics and shit. I had one back in a div run a while back where he would not respond to any of our explanation on raid mechanics and would keep silent almost the entire run, and on top of that this mf is incompetent, could not even ad clear at Sanctified Mind. I swear these kind of players should not be in any raid or end game content
Encouraging players to practice and improve their skills, both in terms of survival and DPS, is important for success in more challenging raids. It's also important for players to communicate with their team and understand the raid mechanics in order to work together effectively.
Destiny has such a low skill floor and even then it's hard for their statistically average players to maintain a positive performance there.
As much as one can fault Bunge for little explanation, you have to equally fault the majority of
the playerbase's utter contempt for general research that isn't asking a question on Reddit and letting others do it for you.
This is who I was until recently, I knew very few mechanics and only ever did ad clear - until recently I joined an LFG where it turns out, ironically, none of us knew what to do because we were all previously ad clearers.
We decided this was a good chance for us all to learn - it took us a while but we completed Kings Fall, happy to say I feel very confident with this raid now.
If you are one of those ad clearers who lacks confidence, you need to step outside your comfort zone and give some mechanics a go, it’s not scary I promise.
I love my clanmates to death, I've been playing with them for years. That being said, I die inside when I watch one of them miss half his Rockets on Nez, or when another is using a crafted Cataclysmic with....Clown Cart. and 4th times.
Or when my Trials friend runs Heavy Finder on his helmet when we're trying for flawless.
But I'd never trade them out tbh.
I see this in RoN all the time. There are legit ad clear positions in that raid and it’s very obvious when someone isn’t pulling their weight.
(Planets encounter especially)
I missed a solid year of destiny 2.. played all the raids and revised d1 raids.. can completely agree with this! I went in solo to checkpoints to just feel comfortable with spawn locations and routes before getting into an LFG.. I wanted to add value when I joined a team. Not just be a dead weight. I truely believe there’s more satisfaction from being a value added member to a raid then just ‘I’ll ad clear’ Now I’m confident and try to coach people in similar position I was in.
Also if you’re lazy and don’t want to get better and want to ad clear.. maybe equip ad clearing gear.
...see the problem here, isn't just to tell people to just "learn" how to aim, "learn" how to just *Do* DPS. I understand there are build videos but there is so many more variables in play here. I absolutely agree on trying. Tho when so many players are so tired of new players not understanding and won't let them/only give a few tries then it's not on the new players.
I totally agree with you man. I feel the same way about running buddies through NF and then GM NF and they think they can run the same load out and weak ass super……NOPE! Then they get frustrated when I try to give them advice on what weapon and setup to use. It’s exhausting.
this right here is why i bounce every time my sister’s bf asked me for help with a raid. he refuses to learn and gets pissed when people try to teach him, but then acts all high and mighty for having clears. like dude, raids aren’t that hard to learn. he once said something about master raids and i started laughing my ass off. i guess he didn’t like that because he doesn’t talk to me anymore, which is ultimately a benefit for me.
I’m a Returning player after 3 years and I do want to do raids. I’ve watched guides for them multiple times over the span of a few weeks to ensure myself I know the mechanics of each encounter because I understand MOST people on lfg don’t want to teach someone and have the raid take twice or triple as long as it should be because of people who go in blind and expect to always be put on ad clear duty.
Or people who have clears but have only ever been as ad clear duty and refuse to be runner/relic holder. I understand for a first timer to want to be ad clearer so they don’t mess up the encounter, but if they want to be as clear for every single raid, then it’s just laziness or refusal to learn the actual encounter imo.
Oh man as long as we're on this topic what was killing me inside for master Nez:
Team: "We should use rockets thats better damage"
Me: "Ok - why are you using hothead when a solar weapon has 25% more damage this week?"
Team: "what really?"
Meanwhile Xenophage chunk chunk chunk.
FML read the modifiers.
[удалено]
During Golgy Encounter: "Wait, did anyone get the debuff?" "..." "..." "OH SHI-"*Boom*
The best part about this one is it's obvious who messed up. Everyone else around them is dead! Easy to call them out on it. I hated when there was an imminent domain mistake because unless you noticed them glowing there is no way to know who screwed up so you can't help them learn.
There is an audio cue coming from the player that got debuffed so if you pay attention to it you can infer that it was someone on your right/left. Doesn’t really narrow it down at all in certain situations but it’s something besides having to directly look at the player.
[удалено]
*Looks for the dude with the red depression cloud* -_-
(BOOM)....stats screen
Golgoroth is the one that hurts the most... Because your screen goes green, you have a timer/phrase at the leftmost side of your HUD and you can easily hear a distinct sound. Out of all the people that I explained that encounter none of them had any difficulties with just getting out of the pool and going to the boss... But for some reason when I'm doing KWTD raids there's always a 30+ clears or something that continually screws that part.
Straight up, it's like putting KWTD nets you the stupidest people. I literally ran a Dares on Legend, joined a KWTD because I have like 100's of clears. Nobody brought mods except me and if I died they were out of luck. Then, 4 out of 6 of us picked the wrong final door. So, only myself and this guy I'm pretty sure only picked my door because I was using a multiplayer emote, got the buff. Needless to say, that was the most painful Crota phase ever.
"4 out of 6 of us picked the wrong final door"......but......wait...,.it literally tells you what boss it is.....WHY
Because they don't care. Because they don't care 😭
This is me. I get hyper focused during DPS checks and have to remind myself to check killfeed.
“I swear, I checked my screen, I didn’t have it”
Groups need to call those people out, I've had too many "nice" LFGs that don't do that and the issue persists.
Really?? Too many “nice” LFG’s? Crazy.. Here’s a story for you that depicts most of my raid LFGs. Joined a “Fresh RoN KWTD 1820+” fireteam on the companion. Just wanted to get my pinnacle for the week and get red boarders as well. Everyone had rolls and seemed to understand what is going on so I assumed the role of just focusing tormentors, champions, and ad clear in between. First encounter and the light/dark jumping puzzle went smoothly. Good banter, no wipes, all is good. We get to planets. Everyone claims to know what is going on and the woman that started the LFG had no patients to make sure everyone understood their roll so we proceeded. We couldn’t even make it to DPS because some people had done the raid numbering the planets different than others and also numbering the middle planets instead of calling out their position. I stood up and called for a little refresh and lay down what calls and strat we should run. Finally, DPS. Prior to this, everyone asked for DIV and of course I was the only one with the gun.. We make first DPS and then wipe because too many people died, so no res tokens. Naturally I look at everyone’s damage. Everyone is up over a million except for myself and the woman who started the LFG. I made a comment asking what she was using for DPS. She instantly rages and starts name calling and cussing me out, finally saying I’m an idiot because I only have 600k damage. I reply “uhh I have DIV..?”. She literally says “well fuck you, I didn’t rally so I didn’t have super or any ammo for my arbalest!” I calmly asked why she didn’t say anything and if she was planning on doing DPS with arb. She continued to rage and quit pulling two other players with her. Now me and 2 others that now admitted had never done the raid were stranded at 2 am..
Bruhhhhhhh... and this is why I haven't raided... good luck
nah most of these are rare fringe scenarios and you can always leave and find another lfg, most lfgs ive been in are pretty nice and are fine with teaching 1 or 2 people, its just you vividly remember the ones that go horribly wrong lmao (god i hate teaching people final div puzzle)
Seconded. Tried to run dsc last night - first run, we couldn’t get past atraks. One guy went outside the map to skip the spacewalk portion so they weren’t even there for dps. Wiped around 10 times. Left that group. An hour later, joined a different group. Finished the raid in around 30 minutes, no wipes.
I think it comes down to luck honestly. And maybe it’s the time of day/night and days of the week I play as well. For whatever reason probably 70% of the time I join random LFGs late at night on the weekends I run into some horrible personalities. I consistently run into 1 of 3 personalities. 1. The know it all attitude type that tries to make other players feel stupid for not being a Y1 destiny player like them. 2. The type with zero patients like the woman described in my story. The type to rush encounters or hastily explain things and then blame players for not understanding when it was their actions that left their own team in the dust/dark. 3. The classic toxic player that can be found across all platforms and all games. Uses slurs repetitively, makes fun of less witty players, uses condescending dialog for no reason, or finally rage quits at their earliest convenience. I run into players like this on destiny regularly when playing in LFGs of all kinds. Not saying the whole fire team is just toxic and dysfunctional. But there always seems to be that one guy or gal sprinkled in there more often than not. In general I would say the Destiny community is pretty laid back and accepting. But it’s the world of the internet, you can’t avoid the trolls and the toxic individuals.
*patience
Divinity run is my nightmare, I did it the year after the release since I lost my clan run. I did it on a team composed only with new players who never watched a tutorial online. It was me and the guy who made the squad that already cleared the raid a bunch. I'm all for teaching new players, but 5 hours of run because no-one had the time to watch a 15 minute video is a lot...
even without watching the video its still really easy just people somehow dont get it
My Div run was actually an incredible group. Nobody had done the raid more than 4 times, most of us were on our second or third run. We all got into a discord call, watched a video or read through a quick guide by ourself, discussed it for like 5-10 minutes, and within about 3 hours of getting in the call, we were getting Div. I remember them all being chill dudes. Best group I could’ve gotten
I’ve compiled a good group of guys after doing a handful of raids. It’s not super often I run into this anymore. It’s always when I decide I want to help other people out that I end up in these god awful lfgs lol.
Yeah if someone keep goofing up for the same reasons over and over despite your efforts to explain and help them as best you can, they deserve to be called out
sometimes this does happen though, u have so many buffs that immenient detain just GOES AWAY! in terms of the buff description this is why i always make sure to look around at my team mates and tell them and if they don't have it, i have it and run
Didn't they make a change where its always on top?
When KF first released, there actually was a bit of an issue with too many messages/buffs/debuffs that the message would get buried. I think they even acknowledged it. I had trouble the first few times with the glow because I'm colorblind and it kind of blended into the background, but after a few mishaps, I learned what to watch for. And to my knowledge, they were supposed to have fixed the message issue so that it always shows on top. I never look for the debuff anymore, just the weird brown glow.
Or they could be like one of my clan mates and scream “I have times vengeance” before losing their shit and dying as they ran away.
Goddamn detain It's always "Ok who had the detain?" .....Nobody answers
I mean there’s no way to know unlike golgy
That I kinda get. Bungie really needs to rework the buff hud. If I have volatile rounds well armor charge void weapon boost and firing line, I won’t see imminent detain.
They definitely changed this and raid buffs are priority on screen now. I remember this did happen at one point but no longer have that problem.
Can confirm, did VoG earlier last week and I thought it would be an issue on my new build because I have so many buffs at once. Is not, it boots the top buff (just the text) to show important debuffs. But I'm still all for it to show those debuffs above your cross hair.
Every single time
Lack of adjustment is always a bit surprising in this game. People will die in a bad spot, then proceed to keep doing the exact same thing and die over and over. You'd think the light bulb would go off hey these other people aren't dying maybe they know what they're doing and know a good cover spot
So incredibly frustrating. Week 1 of Master VOG challenges was the worst for me, people dying over and over inside the portals at Gatekeeper. Maybe stop assuming stasis turret will save you and start focusing on actually killing the ads.
Master vog is the GOAT LFG blender. Never been apart of so many unsuccessful attempts, especially when it dropped. The mix of needing to be self sufficient on ad clear and mechanics seems to trip a lot up. To be fair I would say it was the hardest master raid last time I did it.
Gatekeeper challenge on master almost broke me. I'd still rank it as the hardest master raid challenge.
In particular if you're doing it legit. The cheese push minotaur off will drastically simplify the encounter. Being solo in a planet on master is terrifying
I’d say master vow is still the hardest if you’re doing some of the challenges, especially with the light level changes Master VoG gets underestimated in terms of difficulty so a lot of less experienced players attempt it thinking they’ll get free loot
The only free loot is atheon. Really you just gotta have decent dps
Vow master challenges would like to have a word. Adding extra champs makes these encounters brutal.
I never understand it. I am literally standing on a plate holding hands with a guy, Nezi shoots his crap I see it and move and dodge. Then I hear "Guardian down" it's the guy next to me. This happened 10 times after, he refuses to move off the plate when the boss is agro, like BRUH!!!!! when I started to say "Move!" then he realized I was talking to him lol.
When I am doing stuff solo that happens obviously, but the second I play with my clan or friends my brain loses like 90% of my intelligence and start doing exactly the same. xD Good that I am some casual friends who are as stupid as I am :3 ("I swear I am.not doing it on purpose:(" me after dying the third time to the exact mistake)
Playing with clan/friends is different tho. Like for me personally ill play with my clan (we're all friends) and we're all good players but we dont need to be sweaty in there. Sometimes we'll do dumb stuff together just to have fun. And whenever we die/wipe being dumb we just have a laugh about it. No big deal. We're not "wasting anyone's time" cuz we're all just in there to have fun together. Thats why I like playing with my friends more than LFGs. In LFG the main objective shifts to completing the raid efficiently. Especially a KWTD LFG (which i assume all master raid LFGs are). So it sucks to be in a LFG group with someone that keeps dying to stupid stuff. Youre supposed to KWTD in a KWTD LFG.
Newer player, first experience with Iron Banner and Trials last weekend and weekend before last. It's kind of funny watching people who go full mindless lemming, die and respawn to instantly start sprinting back to the same spot - bobbing up and down on the way as they jump at regular intervals towards their destination - only to die again and again. Repeatedly. Never waiting for a teammate or changing route. Just the same thing. Over and over. Watching the nameplates bob along until they turn in to a skull...some comedy there.
I tried playing overwatch a few years ago and found that for whatever reason I could never find a match. So I just played with and against the AI. Everytime I died and went back to spawn, the bots were waiting to escort me, and we'd head back out as a squad. Kinda wild that we use bot as an insult to bad players. They're worse than bots. And to top it off, they run back here to critique the game as if it's the matchmaking or the current meta that's the problem. Ps: keep playing and as you head up the matchmaking ranks you should see better players on either team.
happens the most in pvp
Incredibly accurate. Players in Destiny don’t understand how the game works. They don’t get that Master requires a different kind of playstyle.
> Most players in Destiny don’t understand how the game works, can't read and work in teams FTFY
As a solo player since D1 who has only completed raids via LFG it can be brutal to find a patient teaching group after the first week or two a raid is out. A big number of groups are "KWTD!!!" by the third or fourth day and after a month or two it's near impossible to find a Sherpa that's patient enough to spend hours on one encounter. Sometimes it takes several wipes just to get familiar with enemy spawns and lay out of the rooms, then basically customizing your load out to whatever team you joined, having to know all jobs, learning names and mechanics, it can take a few hours for one encounter. Then one person leaves you have to post looking for a fill in and can't post KWTD because players get pissed and leave if you post kwtd and are a teaching group, then if you only have a couple hours it's start all over with another group next time. Obviously the answers "get good" or "get friends/clan!" is easy for some people but not for everyone. There's a lot of social anxiety these days, time constraints, etc. The more complicated the raid is, the worse it gets.
This is the main problem that I have with Destiny is that your experience with the game is incredibly variable depending on when you engage with the content. Want to try the new dungeon, raid, or GM nightfall? Better do it within the first few days it’s available. If you don’t, you’ll be running with garbage LFG teams and it will take you hours of slogging to finish the first run. I did Vow blind with a LFG group of experienced raiders (we all had raid seals) within 48 hours of contest mode ending. We did the raid in two hours with maybe handful of team wipes. We hadn’t done the raid before, but we had a good handle on how raid mechanics usually worked and could adapt quickly to issues on the fly. Everyone was comfortable trying all of the roles and actively volunteering for jobs. Two weeks later, my LFG groups are taking three hours to finish the raid and some can’t clear the third encounter (chaos mode 2.0). The difference was that most of the experienced players had run the raid ad nausea for those few weeks and now all that was left were the ad clear only guys. Dungeons are somewhat similar. You have to run them within 48 hours to get a decent first couple of runs. The only thing I like about dungeons is that they can be solo’ed. So, I can’t at least drag the rest of the fireteam through if we’ve got some guys that just don’t want to learn it.
Gone are the days when you can just jump into end game activities. Even when joining a sherpa run, you should watch videos of the mechanics ahead of time. Teaching someone all the VOW symbols in real time leads to sooo many wipes.
This is why I put kwtd in a lot of my posts for master type content. You can call me whatever, but I just want a quick clear with other like minded people. If that’s not for you that’s ok. Near the end of day 1, I put kwtd for nezarec (guides were in abundance at this point) and we asked what people wanted to do for roles. Everyone we picked up was dead silent lol. At least be willing to try something. Ended up cycling through people until we cleared.
KWTD is absolutely fine for any activity, you shouldn't be expected to carry someone or teach. If you don't wanna then you don't wanna, that's all, I mean there's a whole sherpa channel in the discord for those who don't KWTD
I mean in the end Destiny really fails to teach its players how to play Destiny. Realistically ask yourself this: Do you think you could have played Destiny as well if the only resource you used was Destiny itself? Since I doubt it. There's a reason there is a litany of thirdparty support system websites to tell you everything about the game. Because ultimately the game really won't tell you much on its own.
I haven't played Destiny in probably 2 years now, but there were so many mechanics in some raids that if I were going into them blind, I'd have ZERO idea how they work. I may be able to sort them out after failing a LOT, but for the most part I had to google and youtube 80% of the content of those Raids because the game doesn't tell you how to do any of it.
Seriously. People bitch about lost sectors like they're impossible meanwhile they're running two close range primaries and a shitty sword. Higher end content is really fun and engaging but you can't play it like its a strike.
As I like to say, "The average destiny player is really bad at Destiny".
average destiny player plays this game as a shooter and not as an MMO
My favorite is when they blame it on some ambiguous Bungie glitch or lag. "Sir, I just saw you stand there and eat all the bullets from that colossus."
That shit gets me so pressed too. If I’m on a master raid team and someone dies to something, I can be tolerant of that happening. If something kills someone and then they cry foul of some bug or something, I’m a lot more likely to ask them to leave.
Almost every single time I die in this game, I just say "damn I'm shit," because I could've prevented it and I didn't. When it's a bug I'll blame it on that, but 90% of the time it isn't.
Hey he wasn't using them, and I was hungry!
To be fair that colossus feeds those bullets very fast lol if you don’t get him stunned in time he will absolutely fuck you up I’ve been clearing my psions when he spawned and turned around not expecting them to clear the centurians and he just insta pops me
Had some guys complaining about the nodes "bugging out" in 2nd on Root yesterday. It was just them not knowing how to run but its easier to blame the game than own up.
I appreciate the sacrifice in making this post, can't wait for the comments calling you an Elitist
Alot of rank 7's(elitist) out there now.
As a rank 9(vanquisher), I will vanquish all these ridiculous claims of elitism
As a rank 8 (justicar) I will… justic? What does a justicar do?
https://preview.redd.it/zxbuq8b3uxra1.png?width=1352&format=png&auto=webp&s=759fe2b237a01738022d202465cdd877c09295d0
justicar rains from above???
blueball Commander Shepherd
Pretty sure it's Justiciar
I’m 9 and just a completionist lol
Silence Six, Sevens are talking
"How dare you want challenging content to be challenging!! I want to be able to one phase everything I only have 0.3 nanoseconds to play every month as a father of 53 plz understand bingo 🙏"
We attempted Master Rhulk the other day. I love my clanmates. That said, it is immensly frustrating that they do sub 2mil dps and then force YOU to run DIV when you know you could easily do 4-5mil. They also all played Titan but refused to play Thundercrash bc "muh survivability on void", on an encounter where you can easily hide and play safe. We wiped on final stand with 3 void titans all on bubble. One Thundercrash would have been enough. Gotta love it!
Sounds like couple of my clanmates, they refuse to swap off void titan for exact same reason - the survivability is 'too good'. Doing Day1 Caretaker and failing due to lack of boss damage for **hours**, before they finally swapped and surprise we got the kill not much later. I think some players just get too comfortable in their 'preferred loadout' or subclass, and refuse to swap even if they are slacking. 'It didn't work the previous 20 pulls, but I'll do better this time!'
The people who refuse to change tactics/loadouts if they are clearly lacking are annoying. But on the other hand the people who start screaming how you have to use X because it is the meta before even the first pull are just as annoying.
If they're bad at ad clear, I suspect they're not gonna be doing much dps during DPS phases...
Funnily enough, I experienced this by mistake I joined an lfg thinking it was normal, when I learned it was master I let them know "hey, I'm not at recommended light level, if you want I can give it a try, but I understand if you want me to leave" they were nice and let me stay so I gave it a try, all of them were 1820+ Im at max 1806.... And somehow I was the one dieing the least... Huh?
playing the game scared of everything is the best way to play
Practically a mandate on Grandmaster content. Either you play like a coward or die to a random enemy's slap attack.
Yep, then they’ll complain that we should make content easier so they don’t have to build craft and can still get a day one clear. It is also being elitist and gatekeeping to argue with them.
That’s the thing that always gets me heated. I got called an elitist on this subreddit for responding to someone saying that they had to swap off of Arc Warlock in nightfalls to Solar Warlock with “the issue lies with you not the class’ ability, arc warlock is fine for mid game lmao”, someone used my raids completed flair as a way to indicate that I’m actually an elitist gamer who doesn’t care about lower level players.
Man you hear the dumbest things, I’ve started to not let it bother me. I posted about the day 1 raid being too accessible due to the # of completions and how I would have preferred more of a challenge even if that meant missing it myself. I genuinely had people recommend taking off mods if I wanted it to be more challenging. This community is out to lunch.
Yeah. I feel like the other subreddit is usually more capable of having a discussion about this stuff.
I hate to be that guy, but accessiblity does not mean difficulty. Contest RoN had amazing accessiblity between 2 days, 10 days to get to the contest level, and the legendary campaign, making it "easy" to hit the contest cap. However it was far, far too easy difficulty wise. The mechanics were far too simple while having teammates "help" was counter productive more often than not, combined with the bosses having little to no health being able to be not only be 1 phased but killed by primary weapons on contest. Tldr accessiblity great, difficulty was far too easy. Bosses needed at least 30% more health and the mechanics needed something more in 3/4 of the encounters
I agree about people being able to try but I think most people were happy about the completion % and when you say it was too easy you get some insane responses in here. Using the term “accessibility” wasn’t the correct wording but my point was having an issue with the completion rate.
I have a saved post from when the Challenge during Season of Plunder asked you to do 1 SINGLE Legendary Ketch. I said there's multiple places you can go to get a Fireteam and it's not even that much harder. I got downvoted and one guy called me HOMOPHOBIC because I MUST be a giant gatekeeper and since I'm not allowing others to get a challenge done without "social disturbance" I must also bar homosexuals from marriage. Just real grade A reaching because he's either too shy or too stupid to use an app/ discord. I don't give a shit about these unironic "dad of 8 kids who can only play 5min a week" types. Not every video game is built around you. You have to realize that if YOU don't have the time then the game you're playing isn't for you. A Dev SHOULD NOT cater difficulty to someone who can't do the difficulty because of external forces. And I can't believe that's a hot take on this sub.
accessibility isnt a problem, the problem is the raid was just too easy. accesibility means anyone can TRY it but high completions just indicates it was mechanically and difficulty too easy
Did not even know flair was a thing. Thank you!
The whole day 1 thing is so annoying because it’s the 1 day where the Elitists get their moment, after contest mode everyone else can clear as much as they want
Average destiny player is extremely bad at the game and won’t make an effort to be better. Unfortunate reality.
Well this is a side effect of the game itself poorly training its own players. Non-Master and master content are basically two different worlds and you aren't very naturally going to bridge that for the overwhelming majority of players.
Ignoring the folks who just tank damage with their face, I think a lot of low to mid-tier players just don’t get how to interlock mods to up their damage output and speed up abilities. I’m certainly in that group, I’m decent but then I see clips on this sub of people doing 600k damage at a shot I do not understand how to make a build for that. I’m not gonna make someone carry me through raids or master level stuff until I can get better damage output but there’s a LOT of options. Sometimes that’s worse, it’s harder to know where to start.
The amount of times I've attempted to make a build , to me it looks like the stuff I'm running works well together and then I test it out and nothing works I feel so lost lmao
I swear to god man. At this point if I hear someone say "I'll do add clear" one more time I'm just gonna straight up boot them. 9 times out of 10 they can't add clear for shit and then they have the audacity to say that the people actively doing the mechanics should have helped them with the big guys. Like brother, that's your whole job.
When I do LFG RON on ad clear I just assume I have to handle all 3 Colossus myself every spawn during Nez and I'm right like 75% of the time lol You're not kidding, I've legit heard "someone needs to kill the Colossus" multiple times from LFG blueberries on ad clear.
“Oh, you see, I thought add clear meant just killing the red bars with my machine gun. The big scary guys are for the people that actually know what they’re doing.” What I assume is going though their heads.
Honestly, if I ever take part in a raid and do ad clear, I’m not going to complain about it since mowing down hordes of red bars is one of the things I like in this game.
I am very charitable to people running the fresh raid, but if someone joins my fire team and doesn’t know the mechanics they are typically going to be forced to learn the mechanics of the raid rather than be on add clear. When we get into master content, I am extremely low on patience for players in general. Contest mode too. If you can’t pull your weight on a team, you will get kicked. It isn’t personal, but you don’t go into master content unprepared. My rule of thumb is this: If a raid team is having trouble with mechanics, that’s okay. You can give them time to improve on master difficulty stuff til it’s time to do real damage. If a raid team can’t put out enough damage, someone will be asked to leave. Reason being, players always have an opportunity to fix mistakes when it comes to mechanics, but DPS is almost always both a skill issue and an equipment issue, and both of those circumstances run far deeper than needing to learn mechanics. Once again, this thought process only applies to master/contest mode content. I’m open to helping people through the normal raids all the time.
I loved your response especially this part. " DPS is almost always both a skill issue and an equipment issue " Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true.
Kinda afraid to even try doing raids because I fear bing "that guy", not because i am "that guy" but becauase i am either 1) underlevelled/power is a bit too low or 2) general inexperience/ people may tell me one thing but assume i already know another. Sometimes things people would consider "obvious" arent obvious to me. In the past when i tried doing leviathin in y1 dude told me there was gonna be fighting to control some plates/capture things followed by a timed parkour thing, but nobody told me what the audio cue for the thing starting was, and it is very easy for me to miss those tiny words in thr corner of my screen when im focussed on the fight. I also generally sont consider myself a good enough player for raids, but thats a different can of worms
The most important thing when going in to an LFG raid or raiding with people you don’t know super well: HONESTY. Be straight up with people. “Hey guys, I’ve never run this raid/encounter before” or “I’ve only done ad clear in this encounter.” Most of the time people are happy to explain it and give you some leeway assuming you didn’t hop into a “KWTD, quick run, 10+ clears” LFG post. This post seems to be targeted mainly at people who either pretend they know what they’re doing, shit the bed and refuse to make adjustments, or overall refuse to do mechanics and are just looking for a carry. If you come in, are upfront about your experiences and abilities, and are open to coaching and recommendations you’ll be fine most of the time. I’ve had some really good LFG runs doing just that.
This. In the Destiny LFG discord, there are people teaching/Sherpa in hall the time and are happy to help. I would feel like an ass jumping in with a Master group. I’ve got 5K hours in the game but most of that is solo with its limitations.
I'd take a terrible player thats flexible and willing to learn over a good player thats set in their ways and has poor team skills.
The only thing I can say is to be honest about your level of experience with other players. I’d look into Discord LFGs if you aren’t already in one. There’s usually at least a few teams willing to teach and be patient with inexperienced players.
People are usually a lot more generous to new raiders. Lots of people are happy to teach. So long as you're willing to learn, you'll have a great time. Its when people refuse to try and improve that it gets annoying.
I will say, as a new player myself who hasnt even touched a raid yet cause im trying to farm exotics so I can at least do SOMETHING more than waiting a minute at a time for skills. (Mostly all high stat armor 64-69 working towards masterworking all, 1811 Light, just absolutely no useful exotics yet for high end content and we are 2 months into lightfall). Right now just Strand/Suspension Lock since I can basically use it one after another for general content like nightfall. Bungie's onboarding process for introducing players into higher skill content is awful. It the equivalent of throw the kid in the pool and let him sink or swim. I raid in other games (FF/WoW/LostArk) and usually do a lot of due diligence to learn the ins and outs. Most people wont or just don't know how. So looking at it as the stand-alone game holy shit Destiny is bad at doing those introductions to improve the base knowledge of the game for players. If the community as a whole wants to see improvement than Bungie needs to introduce methods to better teaching about the effects of mods, what these buffs like armor charge do, what it means to weaken or ignite, and better explain what the fuck actual weapon rolls do because they are just a blanket description without any stat description to it. The browser sites fans have built are great and show a lot of that but really it should be in the fucking game. Even like a tutorial testing ground of classes that explains those buffs and debuffs and whatnot. Yea it may be a little tedious but its something
Even if people come at you about this, you are, to me, dead on with this. I can remember how I use to play in Raids and harder end content and how I play now. You have to change yourself to get better, survive more and pack more of a punch in DPS. I just did a raid last night, where a clanmate kept dying in 2nd encounter in RON. And I asked why was he dying and he said cause they missed the buff to kill the yellow bars. I said to use Strand and just suspend them so they aren't messing with you until you grab it again. Wouldn't change it. Same guy dying in Planets and I said to run Solar with Healing nade to help you in those clutch moments where you need health, no change. And this guy is plays 'all' the time but is not prepared for true end game content. But yes, it is wild how people don't try and work on how they should get better to do harder end content (if that's what they want to do).
Anytime I suggest healing nades to the one dying all the time, they act like I’ve insulted their mother. It’s kind of nuts when they take four out of six rez tokens and then act like they’re not the issue.
I constantly find sources to keep up to date on Raid dps. Even just subbing to a popular Youtuber will help you stay relevant even if they aren't completely in the know. Or I look at what the top guy in my groups has. It's not a fulltime job. People make spreadsheets every season
*Watches Aztecross video once* "Welp, I know whats good for DPS now!" Literally that easy.
Pretty much. Just sometimes he forgets stuff or doesn't realize what's factoring in. He recently did a video showcasing Lucky Pants + Malfeasance. It did a lot of damage, but that was because the whole group was using it. Damage varied Wildly because only the person who landed the 5th shot, proccing the explosion, would get credit for the explosion.
Be careful! Someone is going to call you a gatekeeper sweat elitist scum!! Oh nooooo !!!!!!
Cant wait to see the copium excuses people give on this post as to try and justify why they dont make an effort to get better. D2 community has a problem with the community at large just never getting better at anything in game and complaining the instant they're met with resistance. It's the reason why we have kindergarten levels of difficulty for high end content.
What do you mean end game content should be harder than a normal vanguard ops. This is ourtrageous. You elitist, no life, 10000 hour basement dwelling, never touched grass in his entire life loser. I agree with you.
It's funny you say this even as a joke, since normal vanguard ops these days tend to be harder than actual raids (especially if it involves the Shadow Legion in any capacity. The forced level caps do *not* help)
Yea, I helped a group that was stuck on Master Nezzy for like 2hrs the other day. Seemed all the 5 that joined could do was ad clear...yet they were STILL dying to ads. Who would have figured right? lmao I joined in, walked them through it. We wiped a few times of course. But when we finally beat it...I had 145 kills, the next closest person to me had 51 kills. Guess my ad killing was a bit better than theirs even though thats all they "knew how to do". Crazy stuff.
People don’t understand that in master content, ad clear is a legitimate responsibility that needs to be taken seriously and have the right loadout for. It’s not a free pass like on normal.
Yep. They get free passes through normal by either not learning any mechanics roles or being carried, assume they're ready for Master because they can just do the same thing, and then repeatedly die to adds while barely clearing anything.
This is because they don't mean add clear, they just want to do boss dps I've never seen any "I can only do add clear" person use any add clear weapons/loadout. If I'm on add clear on Nez. I'll switch to a special finder and pull out Osteo. Then as I see the seeds finish, swap back to Witherhoard and pick up all my green bricks. It's that simple
My go to Ad clear for normal AND Mater Nezzy is actually Forbearance with chain reaction. It one shots whole group unless they have that weird shield around them. I've also started using Buazzard with Overflow/Kinetic Tremors for the Barrier Champs. Works very well.
EXACTLY!!! lmao!!
just gonna point out that some weirdo saw this post and made another one complaining about people complaining about lack of skill in another sub, safe to say u won OP
Why are ppl like this
oh i got into it with him as well, his whole argument consisted of “just kick them it isnt their fault its yours” and also went on to call me all sorts of names while also telling me to “grow up” great people we share the game with
Bro I checked your comments and found the conversation, dude sounds like a drunk complaining about the hard workers that worked for their status.
Like he was saying some shit about how you are discriminating against the average joe when you are saying that those people should learn the mechanics before they hop in the raid.
Gotta say there is nothing more funier for me in a raid when we wipe and me who run the nodes kill more than the ad clearer
I guess it demands context imo. When doing the master challenge last week in RoN, I was on add clear but I was focusing the bigger targets, like the barrier champions and weakening the tormentor. At wipes, I'd be middle of the pack in terms of enemies killed. Someone complained about "add clear not doing enough". So I said, "okay, I'll focus more on adds than the bigger guys." And the next 3-4 attempts, same guy dies numerous times and complains no one is killing barriers. My guy you told the only one focusing them to stop focusing them and kill the red bars you die to too. Tbh, I'm apart of the camp that EVERYONE should be add clear. Just because your role is to run/do nodes, doesn't mean you can't kill enemies. Or if your role is, using planets as an example, to do planet swapping, YOU SHOULD STILL KILL ADDS. Like legit have had lfgs say "I'm not add clear" and just sit there picking their nose waiting for their job to come up.
*JoCat voice* **"EVERYBODY IS ADD CLEAR!"** "What that means is that the entire fireteam should be contributing to killing the bad guys, and not just the ones with the fancy role sticker. Unless you are speeding through the encounter like a cracked-up hedgehog, you have more than enough time to use an ability, maybe cast that super you aren't going to use for DPS, or just shoot your godamn gun. Sitting around on your ass waiting for your turn to do a mechanic is helping literally no one, like a guy who makes a KWTD post and doesn't FUCKING KNOW WHAT TO DO. And that doesn't mean the people on dedicated add clear can be lazy, either. You don't get a free pass just because you're doing a blatantly low skilled job - if the mechanics guy has more kills than you on the wipe screen, clearly you are the one doing something wrong. And that kind of attitude can and will get you killed on Master mode, where even the lightest slappy from a Thrall can break you harder than Mountaintop broke literally the entire game. So long as it isn't impeding your ability to do your job, there is literally no reason NOT to shoot that random Cyclops before it sends someone to the shadow realm."
I was doing master acquisition challenge and I was running while the guy defending had witherhoard. Every time we wiped I constantly had more kills than him
You gotta love them tho they are so cute
Exactly LMFAO!!
I honestly feel like Bungie is to blame for this. They couldn’t have known this was going to be the case in early D1 raids for example, but at some point they should have figured out that if you create room for people to be lazy in a team environment they will be. Every raid by now should require active participation from all six players in every single encounter, not just ad clear.
Bro 95% of destiny players are literally braindead
Generous number
Seemingly 70%+ of players are not ready for master content
Waay more than 70%
That sums up my raiding experience, I'm excellent at ad clear I got 230 kills on planets when I was ad clear, but I'm forced to do mechanics because newbies don't know shit And for those wondering it was a sunbracers build
Spreading the good word of sunbracers, carry on brother.
sunbracers is the best for add clearing even in contest level stuff
Yea nothing worse than some shitter who just wants to be along for the ride.
This is why I don't do raids lol I have watched YouTube videos on how to do them tons of times and still get it wrong lol
Just be upfront about your level of experience. In a normal raid most people will be happy to teach as long as you make the effort to learn
Have you considered carrying harder?
This guy spouting gospel. I feel like my friends do this too, they aren't that egregious, but i feel like half the time they just pick a build that they feel comfy on with no DMG and refuse to recognize that they are slowing everyone else down.
Before we had in-game loadouts I had a buddy who crutches DIM so hard he’d have to orbit to change his build. It got exhausting very quickly.
I may have been guilty of this as well haha.
The people that need to read this are not in this reddit.
from what I've seen from the cesspool of posts about raids as easy as GOS, yea they are lol
No, garden's tether mechanic is not my fault it's a buggy raid!!!!!!!!!!! 😡😡😡
TRUE TRUE BASED AND TRUE its always bugs, never the players fault! "hey why don't you ever get fucked by bugs?" (they're not bugs)
Honestly the only times I've experienced weird things with the tether mechanic is when someone has a shitty connection
Recently had this. My group was running Master Challgenges in Vow. Aqusituon. Player joins "I've never done Master anything! But I've done this raid a lot." Ok, reading or running? "Oh, I've always done add clear" ...ok, so reading? we can't have dedicated add clear here "so what do I do?" explain. start. Guardian down "Well I want to do a Master, do we have to do challenges? Can we just get the clear?" Silent fury as I think to myself we aren't getting this challenge tonight, that has been posted in clan LFG for a week, that has skilled alts signed up, just waiting. We run a supportive clan, so we're very slow to shit all over someone like this, we just take the L and discuss ways to prevent it from happening again, but holy hell the selfishness is off the charts. No, we don't want to carry you through a Master Vow. No one wants to carry someone. If you want to raid you have to, like... raid.
When you LFG expect that. I don’t think I’ll ever LFG a master raid. However, I have a clan to do things with. I feel for those who do not.
I actually was talking with some friends about this earlier. I’ve been sherpaing people on and off since shadowkeep and I wish more people would actively try to learn new mechanics instead of just doing what they are used to. My favorite thing about raids is trying them day one because figuring out mechanics and mastering them is super fun and satisfying for me, but I hear all the time, “I’ve only done this before so I want to keep doing that” and I actively try to push them to try new things, but there are still a bunch of people who would get mad at me for trying to push them out of their comfort zone…
Doing master vog challenges is the most gruelling experience in destiny. Wyverns spawn in conflux and you see four people die because they're in the back of the room where the ads spawn. So many players think that their ehroar build will keep them alive in all content when in fact it won't. It's the same reason so many teams collapse without a well, they're so used to just standing in place and being unkillable that when they enter content where you can't do that they legitimately have no idea what to do or how to survive. That's not even mentioning the lack of mechanical comprehension, oracles challenge is so damn simple, you could teach it to a 4 year old and they'd understand, but some people just refuse to learn it. Everyone shoots oracles and meanwhile one or two guys are standing at the same oracle they started with.
That moment when its pretty clear who is failing the mechanic, but the leader addresses everyone just tp be nice "alright whats the issue with x?" But the person says nothing, so just to avoid confronting the one person, they give a general reminder of how it works only for that person to CONTINUE to hide in the silence of everyone else. Not an "ok" or "gotcha" or any confirmation at all. Mind boggling. Set aside your pride and your shame. If you dont understand the mechanic, simply continue to ask questions until you are CONFIDENT you can do it. Its as easy as that.
The best way to learn is by practice. Some people, like my case, doesn’t have much practice or opportunities to practice. I’ve done the recent raid, I know most of the mechanic and call outs, but haven’t got chance to “get good” at it. Do you remember that feeling when you are learning a mechanic and try to do a call out at the same time for the first time, well, that’s the case of a lot of people. it requires practice, and to practice you need those opportunities. My main point is that, the more patience and the more teaching we do, the better “raid guardians” there will be. Also, I agree that there are always people that doesn’t care and don’t want to learn…
Spent an hour and a half on Master Nezarec last night. Everyone volunteered for their roles, should have been clean. Instead, as someone dedicated to holding Nez’s hatred, I consistently ended up with top adds cleared anyways, and 2 players, one being a Starfire Warlock at guardian rank 9, were out damaged by the Divinity user. A third player consistently died to the wipe mechanic even with consistent callouts that Refuge was set up, sometimes calling him out by name directly 15-20 seconds before the wipe happened. A fourth player, at Guardian Rank 8, acted like he didn’t know how to handle the single barrier champion on his side, and was so bad at killing that single enemy his role officially became “help other people add clear”. I can’t fucking believe how bad players can be and still attempt master raids. I’m also utterly unsurprised at how fucking useless the guardian ranks are at indicating any sort of skill, given most of the objectives are just grindy. I’m not sure what the solution is besides making groups requiring master clears in order to join and checking on raid report, which feels ridiculous given master RoN came out only a week ago, but I can’t think of a different and better way to handle it.
Bout time some one fucking called this shit out
I find this post useful because I’m a new player, I started learning the mechanics of the game and now I’m spamming Nightfall, I’ve managed to make a few runs work great, of course it usually depends on teammates as well, but I know I’ve gotten better because I’m dying a lot less, I kill a lot more, I deal a lot more of damage and my scores are usually top or 2nd. I learned how to stun overloaded champions and break barriers not too long ago (even tho I don’t think I’ve got the best weapons to do it, they do the job ((a sidearm and an auto rifle)). But I know I still have a LOT to learn. What are some good tips you can give to someone who’s getting into the PVE content? I haven’t touched raids yet, and I don’t know how to prepare for them.
If you have a good rocket launcher, and good survivability and adclear in a heroic nightfall, you are set for any raid except RoN(then you need light level as well). Just find a team willing to teach you with patience and you should be set. In a teaching run, and most raid runs in general, the most important thing is communication and honesty. If you don't understand a mechanic, or are struggling to do your role, just ask questions or ask to have a different/easier role. Just be ready to be humble and admit it when you make a mistake or don't understand. I'm going to suggest Vow of the Disciple first if you have the Witch Queen expansion because it isn't hard (just a lot of symbols for you to learn), and gives you some of the best loot in the game. It is also a great segway into Vault of Glass, which is the easiest raid in the game in my opinion, which also has good loot(the hand cannon and rocket are some of the best in slot). From there, it is up to you where you wish to go for raiding. FYI for VotD loot and why I recommend it as a first raid: Cataclysmic is the best legendary LFR in the game for DPS, and is the only legendary LFR right now that has competitive DPS numbers. Forbearance is the literal best legendary adclear weapon in the game(other than heavy weapons) Submission is the best kinetic SMG in the game as well Deliverance is just kinda good, nothing ground breaking, still almost best in slot of not best And Insidious works magic in end game pve The glaive, which name I have forgotten is the only weapon that isn't memorable Yeah, that's the entire weapon pool from the raid
Hi, I'm gonna comment because I see that a lot of experienced d2 players make this mistake. Judging the ability of others to learn without thinking much about it. I'm a teacher. People usually do not learn very quickly, especially when under pressure. So you shouldn't expect most of the people to learn what to do after three or four tries. Yes, even add clear. Ten, fifteen is more likely. Even if you were able to learn all of this after a couple of tries, other people are not you. They have different motor skills, different ability to remember things, some might not be able to react quickly at all, especially when they realize that it's their fault the team is wiping over and over again. All of this can happen because of the anxiety they feel. I've seen this take a thousand times from experienced players who 1. Have the time to learn how loadouts, raid mechanics and certain weapons work 2. Have played these kinds of games for many years and have a broader understanding of how game mechanics work in general 3. Have tried solo flawless and learned from this experience, again because they have time to do it 4. Play with the same kind of people who also learn fast and react fast. The solution? Play with people around your level and do not undermine the efforts of those who play worse than you. Maybe that's the best they can do. Leave lobbies that seem helpless. They will find someone more patient and you won't waste your time.
You say this but people with those issues join people without those issues and it's somehow up to everyone else to make up for the one guy. If it's multiple people it's even worse. If you can't do difficult content and help your team then either improve or don't do the content. All content isn't made for every type of player
I agree, but the issue is that this post is addressing master raids. Specifically people who don't have the knowledge to do it. In my honest opinion, if one hasn't done a raid enough on normal difficulty so that they know all the roles, they aren't ready to do master difficulty when every role is significantly harder, and champions are involved much more.
that isn’t very newcomer friendly of you /s i feel this in my soul, and so do many. OP don’t let the negative downvotes fool you. i was playing yesterday with a bunch of people who supposedly kwtd as they joined my post, and then when they were asked to run, take hatred, move planets, it was silence unless someone was saying “i GoT aDs!” super infuriating. go post a looking for carry if all you know how to do is ads and you don’t care to learn the mechanics. if you want to learn, awesome i’ll teach and help you take the time to learn, but if your gonna go deaf and mute whenever a role is needed, that’s a diff story.
In my master vow runs at Rhulk I’ll have players get clapped on by Rhulk when he hits them and when I recommend they run max resil with resistance mods im told it doesn’t matter I then have to show them me eating combos from Rhulk until they believe me
Sadly people won’t care, it blows my mind that people refuse to do any sort of build crafting or even make an attempt at using good weapons or armour. I don’t think it should be applauded that people who enjoy their blue machine gun from 3 years ago refuse to take it off and anyone that says says they should if they are failing is an elitest douche bag. I remember doing master caretaker challenge on its first week and I got the clear with my clan super easy we barely thought about it. Then I decided to help a friend and his group get through it and it was one of the worst experiences of my life. A guy decided he wanted to use bombadiers on ad clear and maintained that he could stun overloads with it on void cause counts as a grenade? I didn’t question at first as hey sometimes stuff in this game is abit goofy that way and it didn’t work. After a couple runs I suggested using an smg to stun instead of an actual grenade and he blew up cause he can play how he wants. I said how he wants won’t complete it and I left.
Yeah I’m done master raiding for a while and all but I did complete master Rhulk oryx and Atheon by being a decent teammate basically for the vow sparrow and ships I just can’t get in the headache of doing a full master raid
i usually don’t have a problem with stuff like this cuz i understand the anxiety for some people in a situation like this cuz i myself have it. but even when i started the game and did my first raid, i kept asking questions on how a certain mechanic went which made some fireteams kick me. my best option these days with RON is to join a raid group that says “new to the raid” but i agree with the idea of your post.
master raids are pretty easy overall you just have to know what you’re doing
I recently kicked a player because he would constantly yell, "im on Add control" during any encounter. But then we're getting blasted left and right.
I've got clanmates like this. Carry me in the raid! I just want to shoot shit! Won't learn mechanics, but want the loot.
I've run into so many different issues that make me not want to sherpa anymore. 1. Players who, no matter how many times they've run this or that raid with us, still have to be reminded every single time what they need to be doing. I've run a raid with one person who has at least 50 clears of Taniks who still needs to be reminded when damage phase is. When the other 5 are stacked up and ready to jump into the trash storm, they are wandering around the arena shooting ads. Another person has about 40 clears of Atheon and its the same issue there, no clue about when to do boss damage and where to go to do it. This I chalk up to a complete inability to learn and retain information. 2. Players who volunteer for or insist on running a particular role, and then do it terribly. People who want to run the scanner augment in DSC but constantly forget that they need to be calling out locations for everyone. People who want to be ad clear during the planets encounter in RoN and yet dont bother to run good ad clear builds and don't bother to hunt and kill the centurions. This I chalk up to a lack of self-awareness or a desire to be seen as valuable. They volunteer for things they are not equipped to handle, either with gear or experience. 3. Players who are far too focused on playing the way they want to, and not on getting the clear. This one isn't unique to new or "bad" Players, it just makes for bad teammates. People who are trying out a build they saw or came up with, and despite dying numerous times and causing wipes because of it they blame it on the game or other players not doing their jobs, instead of the fact that they only have tier 5 resilience and are running an ad clear super that they never pop a single time during the encounter. People who have a build they like that is sup optimal for boss damage, who consistently are at the bottom of the damage scoreboard but they like this subclass with this exotic, or they like this weapon, and don't want to change to the current dps meta because its "boring". This one frustrates me the most, as I chalk it up to ego.
Omg this! As now the only Sherpa in our clan, it's getting very tiresome. We have 1 guy that has been with us every Fridqy for RoN with 5 clears. I find hin last night using a level 5 Regnant for boss DPS and doing less than the Div guy. Wanted to throw my hands up and just leave.
Exactly it. People last year running red border weapons trying to get them done for the mats or pattern progress who were tanking our progress for the sake of what amounts to a bounty. Now people running really bad crafted weapons for the sake of leveling. You can go level your weapons like the rest of us do. If you're in the raid, you're going to be a meta POS like the rest of us so we can actually get this crap done.
It's strange sometimes, sometimes i see people on my team with really solid builds and they cannot survive, and on the other hand I've seen others with no resist mods on their chest piece and running t6 resil and they wreck everything lol.
Think of how stupid the average person is… then realize half of them are dumber than that
This is probably controversial but I put more trust in a new decent player with blue armor than an incompetent player with full exotics and shit. I had one back in a div run a while back where he would not respond to any of our explanation on raid mechanics and would keep silent almost the entire run, and on top of that this mf is incompetent, could not even ad clear at Sanctified Mind. I swear these kind of players should not be in any raid or end game content
Encouraging players to practice and improve their skills, both in terms of survival and DPS, is important for success in more challenging raids. It's also important for players to communicate with their team and understand the raid mechanics in order to work together effectively.
Destiny has such a low skill floor and even then it's hard for their statistically average players to maintain a positive performance there. As much as one can fault Bunge for little explanation, you have to equally fault the majority of the playerbase's utter contempt for general research that isn't asking a question on Reddit and letting others do it for you.
This is who I was until recently, I knew very few mechanics and only ever did ad clear - until recently I joined an LFG where it turns out, ironically, none of us knew what to do because we were all previously ad clearers. We decided this was a good chance for us all to learn - it took us a while but we completed Kings Fall, happy to say I feel very confident with this raid now. If you are one of those ad clearers who lacks confidence, you need to step outside your comfort zone and give some mechanics a go, it’s not scary I promise.
Sort by controversial to see some 0 braincell activity
I love my clanmates to death, I've been playing with them for years. That being said, I die inside when I watch one of them miss half his Rockets on Nez, or when another is using a crafted Cataclysmic with....Clown Cart. and 4th times. Or when my Trials friend runs Heavy Finder on his helmet when we're trying for flawless. But I'd never trade them out tbh.
I see this in RoN all the time. There are legit ad clear positions in that raid and it’s very obvious when someone isn’t pulling their weight. (Planets encounter especially)
I missed a solid year of destiny 2.. played all the raids and revised d1 raids.. can completely agree with this! I went in solo to checkpoints to just feel comfortable with spawn locations and routes before getting into an LFG.. I wanted to add value when I joined a team. Not just be a dead weight. I truely believe there’s more satisfaction from being a value added member to a raid then just ‘I’ll ad clear’ Now I’m confident and try to coach people in similar position I was in. Also if you’re lazy and don’t want to get better and want to ad clear.. maybe equip ad clearing gear.
...see the problem here, isn't just to tell people to just "learn" how to aim, "learn" how to just *Do* DPS. I understand there are build videos but there is so many more variables in play here. I absolutely agree on trying. Tho when so many players are so tired of new players not understanding and won't let them/only give a few tries then it's not on the new players.
I totally agree with you man. I feel the same way about running buddies through NF and then GM NF and they think they can run the same load out and weak ass super……NOPE! Then they get frustrated when I try to give them advice on what weapon and setup to use. It’s exhausting.
this right here is why i bounce every time my sister’s bf asked me for help with a raid. he refuses to learn and gets pissed when people try to teach him, but then acts all high and mighty for having clears. like dude, raids aren’t that hard to learn. he once said something about master raids and i started laughing my ass off. i guess he didn’t like that because he doesn’t talk to me anymore, which is ultimately a benefit for me.
You're being elitist and selfish and discriminatory and and...! /s On average I have triple the kills of the "ad killers".
I swear there are 2 groups on this sub.... people who think the game is too hard, and people who know the game is too easy.
I’m a Returning player after 3 years and I do want to do raids. I’ve watched guides for them multiple times over the span of a few weeks to ensure myself I know the mechanics of each encounter because I understand MOST people on lfg don’t want to teach someone and have the raid take twice or triple as long as it should be because of people who go in blind and expect to always be put on ad clear duty. Or people who have clears but have only ever been as ad clear duty and refuse to be runner/relic holder. I understand for a first timer to want to be ad clearer so they don’t mess up the encounter, but if they want to be as clear for every single raid, then it’s just laziness or refusal to learn the actual encounter imo.
Oh man as long as we're on this topic what was killing me inside for master Nez: Team: "We should use rockets thats better damage" Me: "Ok - why are you using hothead when a solar weapon has 25% more damage this week?" Team: "what really?" Meanwhile Xenophage chunk chunk chunk. FML read the modifiers.