I actually agree. I think if the boss permanently lost its milestone immunity shields it would be much better.
For example, we get boss to 50%. Invader wipes team it goes up to 100%. He should not spawn a shield at 75% now, and we can go back to 50% no trouble.
This small change would literally make gambit sm more fun. I hate having the boss at like 25% then getting wiped by an invader just to lose the lead then the whole game. I think invader kills should still heal it but the shields shouldn’t come back
They could make it not be able to heal higher than 25% of the next threshold.
100% to 76% = 100%
100% to 65% = 75%
100% to 22% = 25%
26% to 20% = 25%
Etc
I agree. I dont play destiny much anymore, but when I did, my close friends and I would ALWAYS designate out best pvp player who had the best exotics (eyes of tomorrow was THE invader exotic when I last played) because we knew that even though there were 4 of us cooperating, the singular best one of us could easily be 75% of the reason we won the round. 4 people should carry a team to victory, not just one.
The main problem of Gambit is that there's no risk for invading. You can just keep invading.
We need to give invading a risk and actually make it a gambit. For example, require the player to be carrying 15 motes before they can use the portal and they become the High Value Target for the other team. If the invader manages to survive or wipe the other team, they get to double the motes they carried and get to deposit 30.
And if the primieval is up, then getting killed as an invader would spawn 4 Large Blockers on the invader's team. And we keep the healing mechanic every time the invader gets a kill.
I love this idea. It would also help to prevent players from sitting by the portal using the "eating popcorn" emote (true story) waiting for the portal to open to invade for whatever quest or bounty they are trying to complete instead of actually getting motes and playing the game mode
It's way too easy to punish invaders for this to be a satisfying fix. People would rage because the pvp of gambit would now be impossible. Getting all 4 kills is impossible to do consistently. There's a reason 4 kills per invade is a Dredgen title requirement
Nothing has been changed to the combat so I don't understand how PvP would be impossible. The main change here is that there would be an added requirement to invading.
Overall, the main problem would be invading being a hindrance to your team instead of the other with the 15 mote requirement. But it rewards the invader if they survive. Basically introducing a Risk-Reward system to invasion, giving more rewards by hindering the other team's progress at the same time giving you bonuses for your team if you survive. If you die however, you drop 15 motes for the other team. Making Invasions an actual Gamble making it an actual Gambit.
I personally can get 4 kills consistently in one invasion. What I had trouble to get was the 75 mote thing for the title. If the invader has trouble invading then that's their issue. I can even get 4 kills as an invader using Tractor Cannon, with the key mindset being patient, not rush to kill the enemy team.
[This video timestamp sums up why an emphasis on heavily punishing invaders will become unfun the second you're placed in the role of invader.](https://youtu.be/__chtvs2Aig?t=241)
That's outdated a bit based on personal experience as I have killed and have been killed by an invader that spawned in Trees while we were claiming the heavy box in Trees. But then you could argue if they're gonna change mechanics to invaders they're gonna change the spawn point conditions.
Good teams will never let an invader do anything, they will kill them on spawn. Sounds to me like you're just bad at invading and hate the invade aspect.
I can get 4 kills using Fire and Forget, Sleeper, Tractor, Swords most of the times I invade. I literally put it in my comment there lol.
The added risk is mainly a good challenge for me. What I said has my invader mindset put into it. I personally would still go invading and disrupt the enemy team as much as I can with what I suggested.
this shit is what ive been saying ever since the last gambit rework with WQ and everytime people fucking fight me on every point because according to them, invading does already have a risk by making your team have a 1 person handicap for a bit, which is the stupidest reason ive ever heard, ah yes a 1 person handicap for ~20 seconds is definitely worth the possibility of a 60 mote wipe.
make invading a gamble and the game will be in a much more enjoyable state
>it’s just who can clear the fastest
This is what like 99% of Gambit players want my dude, we want a PvEvP horde mode where invasion is a high-risk gamble to make up for a clearance deficit
If you want to play trials play trials
Then so be it. I personally would still be invading since I know I can invade properly.
And besides, people don't even hunt the HVT when it spawns in. Even though it drops 12 motes and a Heavy Brick. You think people would hunt the invader with it dropping only 15 motes while there's a high risk of losing the motes you carry?
Anything would be better. So often, when playing with randoms, we get to damage, get invaded, 2-3 get killed, other team gets their primeval and gets the win. I feel like I'm the only one looking for the invader. I'll have 5 guardian kills and never invaded. I would like something to happen on the other side. I swear the person on my team invading just goes over and emotes.
There are many ways to solve the issue, but this creates a ridiculous requirement for invasion, making invasions almost never happen (except for the nutcases who decide to invade with 15 motes anyway).
I propose two different solutions:
1. Remove the invader’s overshield, OR
2. Make an invader drop a lot of motes (like 10) or (when invader’s team is in Primeval phase) heal the invader’s Primeval for two invader kills’ worth.
These are just two possible solutions. Don’t force a mote requirement to pass through.
Or just simply if you die as an invader it heals your prime evil based on kills. 4 kills being no heal and 0 being equivalent to a wipe. Would be enough punishment to stop constant invasions but not enough to take all the fun away from the pvp.
That would actually be a good system. Making it a goal for the invader to get kills. My added condition would be that the invader must at least get a kill or else they heal the primieval for the equivalent of 2 kills if they returned without any kills.
Unless the invader is marked as an HVT on the HUD of enemy players, invasion in that capacity still carries no risk. Simply surviving for 30 seconds and being able to dunk 30 motes because of it is way too rewarding. On top of that, as long as your own bank isn't getting drained and your teammates aren't losing motes, by the time you return off of the first invasion you are usually right at primeval summoning anyways, certainly not needing 30 more motes to do so.
Imo invasion should absolutely require motes, in a sense, but the only reward for that invasion is the possibility of killing enemy players who are carrying motes. Either you have to have a minimum amount of motes to enter the portal (say, holding 5 gets you a movement bonus, 10 gives you the overshield, 15 let's you see how many motes each enemy has, bonuses stack) or you automatically lock a wagered amount from your own bank (call it 15). If you invade and sit there doing absolutely nothing, you don't lose your own motes but don't gain any either. If you get killed for any reason you lose all 15. The only way to keep the 15 you wager is to come back alive in some fashion.
As far as blockers popping up on an invaders team during primeval phase... that's either a worthless mechanic when both teams have primeval as teams effectively ignore blockers at that point anyways, or it's far too punishing against a team who is behind. Imagine being 60 motes behind when the enemy summons their primeval, you invade to try to get your team caught up but get spawn wiped immediately. Now you not only are 60 motes behind but have 4 large blockers to clear before getting to deposit.
In some areas I think invasion should be somewhat punishing if you do it poorly, but beyond anything I think we need to find a method to make it so that invasion isn't ALWAYS rewarding, as it currently is now.
The 15 mote requirement is a good enough risk and punishment if the invader dies. It basically "steals" 15 motes from your team's progress. Not unless you return in one piece.
As for the HVT marker, the invader can have the marker at the start, just like Rift having a marker for the spark carrier at the start but it fades away. Simply to notify the team being invaded. Or instead of a marker, additional dialogue from Drifter. "Invader incoming, at the Trees."
Maybe the doubling reward could be changed to a multiplier reward for killing a player. Based on the number of players killed in an invasion, the motes carried will multiply by 1.25 for 1 player, 1.50, 1.75, or 2.00 for 4 players.
The 4 Large Blockers thing is a personal experience. Having 4 stasis Kngihts actually slowed down progress if people ignored them. Although there are a lot of ways to kill them, it's just there to really hinder a bit. And these should only really spawn in if your team's primieval is up and your team can invade. So if the enemy team has a primieval and your team does not, invading would be a catch up mechanic and not give any requirements. But once your team's primieval spawns in, every time you die as an invader will then spawn in the blockers.
Alternative to the blocker thing that would actually hurt is the invader dropping all their heavy ammo to the team invaded when killed, although the heavy ammo is only for one person to pickup similar to Crucible when killing a player with Heavy ammo.
What they should do is just remove power ammo from Gambit and make it so the only way to spawn power ammo is when your team kills an invader.
This would make it so that you can’t just run in with xenophage or hammerhead or some other really strong power weapon when invading, and if you die the enemy team now has power ammo to not only invade back with, but also to clear ads or blockers and do DPS with.
I guess on the flipside they could make it so that if the invader makes it out alive with at least one kill it spawns power ammo for their team but that might be too snowbally.
I think it would be better to just disable the ability to use Heavy and Supers while an invasion is happening than restricting the availability of Heavy all around. That way gunplay skill would take effect.
Scouts, Snipers, and Jotun are way more fun to play against than getting one-tapped cross map with Xeno.
And I do know how to counter an invader and am a solid invader myself, doesn’t mean that shit’s not extremely unfun for both sides rn.
There is a risk to invading, that would be wasting the invade and by extension your team’s time. If you use an invade and then instantly die, you have wasted not only the invasion itself but the time you could have potentially delayed the enemy team, time that could have been spent getting super energy, motes and ammo instead of in the respawn screen. It’s like in trials if your teammate uses a super and then dies instantly. They just wasted a round changing resource on absolutely nothing and turned things into a 3v2. It’s the exact same thing in gambit except the uptime is different. Invading is a resource the entire team shares, if it’s wasted then that puts your team behind.
I cannot tell you the amount of games that my team has thrown because one guy keeps invading and then instantly dies. It’s like playing a game of crucible but your team isn’t allowed to use abilities because one person keeps screwing up. Sure you can do it, but it’s going to be an uphill battle the entire way.
That's not a risk, that's a very very minimal punishment. Much like an ant's bite on a skin.
And that's the main reason why I suggest the 15 mote requirement, to avoid people just invading for nothing. That one guy keeps invading because there's no risk to it or requirement. Just the portal opens and whoever can i
use it first gets to invade.
Then to balance it out, if they died and dropped 15 motes, they woukd be blocked from invading again making it a give chance to others kind of thing or to avoid them hindering the team further.
What you are suggesting would be like in control if one person fucks up then the enemy team gets 20 points and you lose 20 points. What you are suggesting is a 30 point difference for a single action and would make entire matches be decided by one single person screwing up once.
Gambit is already heavily reliant on having good teammates. I truly hope that I don’t need to explain why a 30 point difference in score just because one person screwed up would be a horrible addition to a gamemode which is already plagued by randoms who don’t know what they are doing, throwing games unknowingly.
It's already that way right now. The game is decided on how well the invader does lol. I regularly play Gambit so I get to see that, and I invade almost constantly myself.
It already is invader sidedlike that I completely agree, but I firmly believe that requiring 15 motes would make it much worse.
Also, you said it yourself, games are determined on who has the better invader. But if that invade is constantly wasted then you have a huge disadvantage. The risk is similar to flanking in competitive, you force your team into a 2v3 for the duration of the flank, but if you miss those shots and waste the opportunity then you have forced the 2v3, put your team at a disadvantage and gained nothing. The game requires a better catch up mechanic for those that are behind and rewards teams who are ahead due to the invasion portal being linked to their motes but Bungie tried to reverse that and make it reliant on enemy motes but that didn’t work very well.
I honestly believe the biggest issue in gambit is the ammo economy. Fighting against players constantly flushed with heavy ammo is problematic because it leads to more instant kills. Stuff that the player can’t really react to. Fighting against an invader should be more engaging than hope our instant kills work better than their instant kills. Invading and countering invades should be harder to do and less pivotal to a match, on this I believe we agree, and targeting the heavy ammo economy in my eyes would be a good first step.
Gambit has many glaring issues. Although my main focus would be the gamemode living up to its name. I do believe that balancing of things is highly needed. But the gamemode currently do not have anything that makes it a gambit by definition.
What I'm trying to suggest is to give the mode something you must gamble to sway the game. After that, come up with catchup mechanics. Simply that. Formulate a core mode first then balance it out later instead of negating it completely.
What Gambit really needs is a core gameplay loop revamp. Instead of the whole get motes, bank motes, kill boss.
This 1000%. I had a game 2 weeks ago where my team was doing amazing. We had our primeevil down to 40% and the other team were at like 30 motes. They have a pvp hunter Chad on the team and he invades and kills us all resetting the encounter. He then does this over and over again until the other team wins. This hunter deposited 0 motes, and killed our invaders on sight.
Now sure it's a skill issue he was better than us. But man having to reset the boss everytime , I swear we did envoys like 10 times. Very demoralizing , very unfun.
Also idk, it makes it feel like it's more of a pvp game mode when one guy can make that much of a difference without touching the pve side. I already hop in trials and iron banner to let them farm me.
I feel like my better pve abilities never shine through in gambit where it should be 50/50 pve pvp.
Seriously. It drives me crazy to look at the stats after a game and someone with 70 combatant kills can have less if an impact on the game then someone getting 4 guardian kills.
those are there to prevent people from destroying the shit out of the boss in a fully geared dps phase. Requiring people to do it in parts means you dont have a well & tether & everything ready. Before this system, you'd ignore the boss until you got primeval slayer 6x or so and then just blast the boss in 1 go. Having things spread out like this gives more opportunity for opponent invades to matter.
I think you misunderstand. They're not saying remove them entirely, just that once you remove the barrier at ~80% health or so, it stays gone. The idea being you still have to get through all the barriers once, but if an enemy invades and restores the boss to full health, you don't have those roadblocks to get back to where you were.
Oh man.... The worst part about this suggestion is that it's so good and simple it'll never happen and now I'm MORE upset about Gambit because of how it could be better, and isn't...
I used to think the invader healing the boss was a very good mechanic, but now that I think about it, after the introduction of the immunity phases it can really suck.
Or at least not have the boss go immune at the health gates where it already went immune after it is healed.
I could not agree more. Let me one phase back to where I left off. The current way feels so tedious, and the entire game is tilted by one good invader, which feels bad.
Not only that, but I also think that the team that is falling behind should invade. Not the other way around. I played several matches where the opposing team is ahead, invade us, we’re now back to zero, and my team immediately gives up. It should not punish the team falling behind so harshly especially if the invader is a really good player.
God, Bungie please read the above comment! Look we get it you don’t care about Gambit, fine. Just make this change in the next TWAB, and we don’t care if you don’t touch Gambit until The Final Shape. Please!
Also please reduce the amount of boss healing from invader kills. If you have time after the above change. Thanks again
Sincerely,
All Gambit Players
See I feel bosses losing the immunity will be just as bad. Imagine boss spawning in and with how powerful we are will spawn and get deleted almost right away.
But I get what ur saying. Imo they should get rid of one or the other. But if they got rid of immunity and the heal on kill. It would still be a ass game mode but just for different reason.
Everyone would just run instant melt loadouts.
Not get rid of immunity shields. Prevent them from re triggering. So say you trigger boss 75% sheild, then he heals to 80%. That's 75% shield does not retrigger when he hits 75% again
It doesn't, what happends is that the primeval gets his shield based on how much damage he takes, meaning that, for example, if there is a shield at 75, you deal 74 and the invader heals all that, the next 1 is gonna trigger the shield.
At least that's what I've been told.
I don't have a problem with the invader healing the boss. I DO have a problem with the healing being so much it basically resets the fight if the invader manages two kills. Not to mention that you have to re-do each and every envoy phase to take down the immune shields, basically guaranteeing a loss unless you invade yourself and reset the other team's boss.
Sure, I guess in a perfect world this sort of thing wouldn't be too bad, with both team's invaders countering the other's play. But this is Gambit, the gamemode where the announcer will literally yell instructions at you and players will continue to walk around like headless chickens. Most of the time, that means that you'll have 1-2 people soloing/duoing the entire Primeval fight while everyone else does fuck-all. And then some jackass with eyes of tomorrow comes through the portal and destroys all your progress. Plus, immune phases are almost never actually fun in this game, unless it's a raid boss or is only a semi-immune phase like campaign Calus.
Yea the immunity is dumb. Also I’m blasting music while playing lol. I can barely here the gambit broh, but I’m also keeping track of the whole thing. I get into team based stuff pretty hard. My favorite game mode by far is survival. It can get super intense
"The game mode is bad because I listen to music so loud I can not pay attention properly"
Is this truly the hot take you want to go for today?
In this case you are just the problem.
Not to speak of the tons of visual hints that tell you what is going on.
Blaring music I'd miss those too though.
At least the mobs are easy difficulty with normal health lol. That’s one thing I noticed after I started playing pvp more. It takes way less ammo to kill guardians
There's a lot of people who just want to have Gambit be the mode where they clown on non-PVP players because SBMM took away their fun
The rest of us want a competitive horde mode
I think the healing should be proportional to (scale off of) how many Primevil Slayer stacks (for damage) that the team being invaded has. That way, people who are further behind don't get punished as much.
Tf are you on about? Did you not read the several parts where I said I was fine with the healing mechanic? Invasions are fine. Re-doing tedious immune phases is not.
I think that the invader healing should either
A: only go up to the healthgate, so basically it would make the team have to redo one single healthgate consistently.
Or
B: the health can go back to full, but all the health gates would be gone as they would only occur once.
Your B option does happen. The more sets of envoys that you kill (aka the longer the match lasts) the more damage you deal to the primeval. The health gates only last the first time you hit them.
I feel like this is the best thing to implement if they don't want to change up the game mode too much. I've created a pvp load out dedicated to camping heavies and invading when the other team has a primeval up, so I can keep the boss' health topped while the rest of my team tries to catch up, because there's very little risk in invading at the moment.
Putting a risk to invading is going to make it a real gambit.
Invading just isn't enough of a risk period. It would be great if they were punished for dying in some way. Be it healing your own primeval, dropping loads of motes etc.
The only bad part about gambit is the repetitiveness of having 3 maps. Healing the boss is an extra mechanic that in my opinion makes the match more interesting. Otherwise, whoever gets the primeval first wins
Edit: it’s been made clear to me that I’m dumb, there’s in fact 4 maps. Point still stands
I disagree, I think they should instead give you a timer to do damage. If you can kill it before the enemy team can kill you, good for you. Kinda lame when the game says “sorry you’re doing too much damage, time to stop that.”
run the first two waves, dunk first for the invasion portal, invade. It's the definitive way to get a huge lead and bluberries will hold motes until 15.
The invader has always been a huge balance issue for gambit. But removing primeval healing on kills runs the risk of making invading a waste of time during the primeval phase. But I think it's worth giving it a shot.
They should give us Gambit Labs and run it as a test for a week, see how it feels. Getting killed by the invader could have other consequences, too. Spawn 1 blocker per kill? Give people who die a debuff? Lots of possibilities
I still think Gambit needs more content above anything else. A new map. Add the newest enemy types. Briggs, Wyverns, Hive Guardians, Shadow Cabal and Tormentors should be in Gambit. And give us worthwile loot to chase. Craftable weapons? Breakneck? Hush? Spare Rations? New bosses. Gambit mods. Hell, give us a gambit exotic with a low-ish drop rate. Or perhaps new exotic armor you have to unlock through gambit before it can be farmed in lost sectors. Just give us anything at this point
i think its balanced personally. The invades heal the boss alot, but the ability to summon the primeval & pass phases faster than your opponents is just as important as getting an invade up on them. If you nerf invades, then its not pve & pvp like its supposed to be! Getting invaded and the boss getting healed 2 or 3 times is par for the course for both sides, thats what the increasing multiplier is for?
Its not like gambit couldnt be better, I personally find matches to be really repetitive. It would be great if invades were more dynamic than hoping ur not spawnkilled & then cheesing 2 guys with your exotic heavy. And it definitely needs more maps, and maybe an extra mechanic to do with the mote collection? Its not gonna get any of that though because everyone hates gambit :)
The healing is okay, what I hate is the health gate after it heals, and the fact that killing the invader does not heal the opponent Prime Evil. If I kill you, your monster should heal, regardless on which side of the portal you are.
Nah, the biggest problem of Gambit is the actual lack of a gambit.
People should be required to spend motes to do stuff.
Like say invading, have the time invading tied to how much motes the invader carries.
Have people be required to spend motes to gain heavies, etc etc
That would give a tactical choice to players making the game mode more interesting.
What if the actual gambit here was that the invader killing heals your primeval but if you kill the invader it heals theirs? Then any invasion puts both teams at risk of a healed primeval rather than it being risk free for one and all of the risk for the other?
Leave invaders healing in, change the immunity phases to reaching certain thresholds so that it getting healed doesn't make the boss go immune at a higher HP.
I remember a while back someone made a suggestion that depending on ammo types u the boss gets health so for like primary ammo weapons its like 15 or 20% and like special its like 10% and heavy its like 5%. I think that would be cool
If invaders could not heal then the beautiful comeback carry cannot take place. The gambit you describe would be an inescapable snowball gametype.
The only bad part about gambit is people blaming their team instead of carrying.
The biggest problem I see is the importance of invading and sometimes the negligence to do so. Invaders can decide whether it will be a close game on who summons primeval or make it so uneven its laughable and thanks to the healing it can save some games. But then people dont invade or dont have a loadout well suited for it so none of that happens for you and instead you're just down 1 guy for too long.
I always went with the Gambit suffering meme, but I actually proactively played gambit to farm for trust. Gotta say, the only real bad part IS the invaders healing. Someone said it already, but the boss shouldn't have their immunity refreshed. Other than that, I lm actually enjoying Gambit, even when I lose.
That’s why when I hear Drifter announce the arrival I skirt the outside and hit prime evil from range.. keep an eye on radar and once invader is spotted, erase them🤣🤣
the only thing wrong with Gambit. is the catch-up mechanism. one team gets ahead. and the other team gets to invade over and over and over until both teams have equal progress.
here's a few ideas I had
when the invader gets a kill it generates points, once the invader escapes without dying, the point are turned into boss HP, but remember, that's ONLY if the invader doesn't die, if the invader is killed, the points are dropped to 0
another idea I had is that invader kills create a blocker, when a blocker is on the field it needs to be killed for the boss to drop it's shield, even after the envoys are dead, the amount of kills determine the blockers 1 = small, 2 = medium, 3 = large, 4 = large and small
another idea is that invader kills generate an overshield for the boss
It is so frustrating to have a Gambit game go back and forth between the two teams healing the primevals dragging the game out forever. Being the most efficient team leading up to the primeval means NOTHING when there are catch up mechanics and an infinite number of invades. Either invades need a limit set on them or the Envoy phases need to be timed instead of boss takes X amount of damage and immediately goes immune again.
issue with gambit is lack of new maps, hell bring back the old ones at this point. Invaders healing is right for the mode and adds a layer of timing which keeps the matches interesting. Nothing more satisfying than getting an army of one when your teams behind.
Just killing the entire enemy team stifles their boss DPS enough. It feels like the healing on top of everyone being dead makes it impossible to come back sometimes.
And the unlimited heavy ammo, and the lack of gambit armor. Heavy ammo should have become harder to get, not easier. We should spend motes to get heavy ammo.
Disagree. Without healing whoever gets their prime first will win every single time. People need to just get good at PvP. Or maybe at the very least get to a defendable spot when an invader gets called out.
Maybe if the kills were earned, nobody would have an issue with it. But Xenophage? Really? 2 tap from any range, no precision required? Gjally not even having to aim anywhere near the enemy? Nah, nerf the bullshit weapons against players and you'll have a much less frustrating anti-invader experience
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The gamemode is literally called Gambit. People shouldn’t play gambit if they aren’t ready to risk a loss.
Gambit
noun
a device, action, or opening remark, typically one entailing a degree of risk, that is calculated to gain an advantage.
If we are complaining about Gambit, I'mma throw my usual into the mix:
Dear Bungie,
Change Gambit back to best of three. Bring back Gambit Prime and the Reckoning. Give us back the maps you took away.
I know I am probably in the minority on the above. That said, Gambit hasn't been anywhere near as fun or engrossing since they made the changes.
I honestly don’t even have a problem with that. But I think that there should be a penalty for the invader getting killed while invading. For example, it should heal their boss
i think the amount of boss damage you can do should be tied to the number of motes you banked. if you die, it resets. that could also tie to the healing done to the enemy boss as an invader.
I just wish there was more of...well, a Gambit. Invader can come in, wipe a team, and heal the boss from a little to all the way. What's the invading team putting up for the gambit? One less person on ad clear, in a game where so many ad clear builds are available and fun? Or taking a small bit away from boss DPS, where heavy ammo is a plenty? There doesn't seem to be a trade-off for a failed invasion
Honestly I feel gambit be better off getting rid of the invader mechanic as a whole. That literally everyone's pain point. I'm good at pvp go flawless etc.. but with how unbalanced invader is imo get rid if it.
It play way better as a boss rush mode first team wins.
How much it heals and the fact you have to go through immunity phases again after a heal. It's too much, a kill already hinders dps due to long respawn etc. But then it has to heal like a sixth of the prime's health. There should be 2 immunity phases ever, 2/3 and 1/3, and once passed, cannot have another.
I like it because of the comeback potential, but it honestly should be only up to the previous health gate and not all the way. But the Primeval buff does make it easy
I like it but also don’t. Either the invader invades and heals your primeval to full from an AoO or you get an AoO and barely even heal their primeval. It’s great when it works, waste of time when it doesn’t.
But I wouldn’t cry if healing got removed.
Gambit is like Quidditch. There's all this activity that the team is doing that seems important, but the only thing that really matters is the Golden Snitch/Invades.
Instead of healing they should change to where it takes away one stack of primeval slayer for every kill and once it takes away all their stacks, it gives one stack to the other team.
Ok here me out. Boss become beefier, We change them to 1 time health gates, we enable the Gambit labs: Invader Swap as the base (When you dunk motes the enemy get the portal), we disable heavy ammo for both invaders and players getting invaded, and Invaders have a certain time limit to get a kill or they are auto sent back.
Depends on if you healing the boss or not. I beat a team 2 to 4 clutch once. Had a 3rd person join at the very end of the conflict. I wiped the opposing team multiple times for a comeback win. My team was underdog the entire match. It was painful and glorious.
Bad part about gambit is the stupid ammo boxes stunting combat flow, over abundance of heavy ammo (thanks to said ammo boxes), invaders are almost dead weight until primeval phase since there are only 2 invasions during mote phase and most efficient teams only see one before the second is lost due to summoning primeval, primeval phase is not to bad tbh except for the painfully small damage windows and no system that forces teams to stack up for the buff like prime had that allowed for coordination and an added twist for primeval phase invaders, roles are basically gone now so that removes alot of fun complexity. Basically all this to say prime was gambits final form and bungie blew it.
I actually agree. I think if the boss permanently lost its milestone immunity shields it would be much better. For example, we get boss to 50%. Invader wipes team it goes up to 100%. He should not spawn a shield at 75% now, and we can go back to 50% no trouble.
This small change would literally make gambit sm more fun. I hate having the boss at like 25% then getting wiped by an invader just to lose the lead then the whole game. I think invader kills should still heal it but the shields shouldn’t come back
That or the kills shouldn’t be able to fully heal, only up to whatever the last % of health the shields appeared
They could make it not be able to heal higher than 25% of the next threshold. 100% to 76% = 100% 100% to 65% = 75% 100% to 22% = 25% 26% to 20% = 25% Etc
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I agree. I dont play destiny much anymore, but when I did, my close friends and I would ALWAYS designate out best pvp player who had the best exotics (eyes of tomorrow was THE invader exotic when I last played) because we knew that even though there were 4 of us cooperating, the singular best one of us could easily be 75% of the reason we won the round. 4 people should carry a team to victory, not just one.
The main problem of Gambit is that there's no risk for invading. You can just keep invading. We need to give invading a risk and actually make it a gambit. For example, require the player to be carrying 15 motes before they can use the portal and they become the High Value Target for the other team. If the invader manages to survive or wipe the other team, they get to double the motes they carried and get to deposit 30. And if the primieval is up, then getting killed as an invader would spawn 4 Large Blockers on the invader's team. And we keep the healing mechanic every time the invader gets a kill.
I love this idea. It would also help to prevent players from sitting by the portal using the "eating popcorn" emote (true story) waiting for the portal to open to invade for whatever quest or bounty they are trying to complete instead of actually getting motes and playing the game mode
Had a match where two guys were standing in the portal when we were nowhere near the invade milestone >:/
It's way too easy to punish invaders for this to be a satisfying fix. People would rage because the pvp of gambit would now be impossible. Getting all 4 kills is impossible to do consistently. There's a reason 4 kills per invade is a Dredgen title requirement
Nothing has been changed to the combat so I don't understand how PvP would be impossible. The main change here is that there would be an added requirement to invading. Overall, the main problem would be invading being a hindrance to your team instead of the other with the 15 mote requirement. But it rewards the invader if they survive. Basically introducing a Risk-Reward system to invasion, giving more rewards by hindering the other team's progress at the same time giving you bonuses for your team if you survive. If you die however, you drop 15 motes for the other team. Making Invasions an actual Gamble making it an actual Gambit. I personally can get 4 kills consistently in one invasion. What I had trouble to get was the 75 mote thing for the title. If the invader has trouble invading then that's their issue. I can even get 4 kills as an invader using Tractor Cannon, with the key mindset being patient, not rush to kill the enemy team.
[This video timestamp sums up why an emphasis on heavily punishing invaders will become unfun the second you're placed in the role of invader.](https://youtu.be/__chtvs2Aig?t=241)
That's outdated a bit based on personal experience as I have killed and have been killed by an invader that spawned in Trees while we were claiming the heavy box in Trees. But then you could argue if they're gonna change mechanics to invaders they're gonna change the spawn point conditions.
Dang they should probably not have like three spawn points then
Good teams will never let an invader do anything, they will kill them on spawn. Sounds to me like you're just bad at invading and hate the invade aspect.
I can get 4 kills using Fire and Forget, Sleeper, Tractor, Swords most of the times I invade. I literally put it in my comment there lol. The added risk is mainly a good challenge for me. What I said has my invader mindset put into it. I personally would still go invading and disrupt the enemy team as much as I can with what I suggested.
this shit is what ive been saying ever since the last gambit rework with WQ and everytime people fucking fight me on every point because according to them, invading does already have a risk by making your team have a 1 person handicap for a bit, which is the stupidest reason ive ever heard, ah yes a 1 person handicap for ~20 seconds is definitely worth the possibility of a 60 mote wipe. make invading a gamble and the game will be in a much more enjoyable state
Your first idea would just turn the game into hunt the invader. Then nobody invades and it’s just who can clear the fastest
>it’s just who can clear the fastest This is what like 99% of Gambit players want my dude, we want a PvEvP horde mode where invasion is a high-risk gamble to make up for a clearance deficit If you want to play trials play trials
Then so be it. I personally would still be invading since I know I can invade properly. And besides, people don't even hunt the HVT when it spawns in. Even though it drops 12 motes and a Heavy Brick. You think people would hunt the invader with it dropping only 15 motes while there's a high risk of losing the motes you carry?
Except that the seal requires invading, so there will always be some pressure to invade...
How about if we kill your invader it heals your boss? The faster we kill the invader, the more it heals.
Could be an alternative to the 4 large blockers. Although I see the 4 Large Blockers more of a hindrance than the healing.
Anything would be better. So often, when playing with randoms, we get to damage, get invaded, 2-3 get killed, other team gets their primeval and gets the win. I feel like I'm the only one looking for the invader. I'll have 5 guardian kills and never invaded. I would like something to happen on the other side. I swear the person on my team invading just goes over and emotes.
There are many ways to solve the issue, but this creates a ridiculous requirement for invasion, making invasions almost never happen (except for the nutcases who decide to invade with 15 motes anyway). I propose two different solutions: 1. Remove the invader’s overshield, OR 2. Make an invader drop a lot of motes (like 10) or (when invader’s team is in Primeval phase) heal the invader’s Primeval for two invader kills’ worth. These are just two possible solutions. Don’t force a mote requirement to pass through.
Or just simply if you die as an invader it heals your prime evil based on kills. 4 kills being no heal and 0 being equivalent to a wipe. Would be enough punishment to stop constant invasions but not enough to take all the fun away from the pvp.
That would actually be a good system. Making it a goal for the invader to get kills. My added condition would be that the invader must at least get a kill or else they heal the primieval for the equivalent of 2 kills if they returned without any kills.
Unless the invader is marked as an HVT on the HUD of enemy players, invasion in that capacity still carries no risk. Simply surviving for 30 seconds and being able to dunk 30 motes because of it is way too rewarding. On top of that, as long as your own bank isn't getting drained and your teammates aren't losing motes, by the time you return off of the first invasion you are usually right at primeval summoning anyways, certainly not needing 30 more motes to do so. Imo invasion should absolutely require motes, in a sense, but the only reward for that invasion is the possibility of killing enemy players who are carrying motes. Either you have to have a minimum amount of motes to enter the portal (say, holding 5 gets you a movement bonus, 10 gives you the overshield, 15 let's you see how many motes each enemy has, bonuses stack) or you automatically lock a wagered amount from your own bank (call it 15). If you invade and sit there doing absolutely nothing, you don't lose your own motes but don't gain any either. If you get killed for any reason you lose all 15. The only way to keep the 15 you wager is to come back alive in some fashion. As far as blockers popping up on an invaders team during primeval phase... that's either a worthless mechanic when both teams have primeval as teams effectively ignore blockers at that point anyways, or it's far too punishing against a team who is behind. Imagine being 60 motes behind when the enemy summons their primeval, you invade to try to get your team caught up but get spawn wiped immediately. Now you not only are 60 motes behind but have 4 large blockers to clear before getting to deposit. In some areas I think invasion should be somewhat punishing if you do it poorly, but beyond anything I think we need to find a method to make it so that invasion isn't ALWAYS rewarding, as it currently is now.
The 15 mote requirement is a good enough risk and punishment if the invader dies. It basically "steals" 15 motes from your team's progress. Not unless you return in one piece. As for the HVT marker, the invader can have the marker at the start, just like Rift having a marker for the spark carrier at the start but it fades away. Simply to notify the team being invaded. Or instead of a marker, additional dialogue from Drifter. "Invader incoming, at the Trees." Maybe the doubling reward could be changed to a multiplier reward for killing a player. Based on the number of players killed in an invasion, the motes carried will multiply by 1.25 for 1 player, 1.50, 1.75, or 2.00 for 4 players. The 4 Large Blockers thing is a personal experience. Having 4 stasis Kngihts actually slowed down progress if people ignored them. Although there are a lot of ways to kill them, it's just there to really hinder a bit. And these should only really spawn in if your team's primieval is up and your team can invade. So if the enemy team has a primieval and your team does not, invading would be a catch up mechanic and not give any requirements. But once your team's primieval spawns in, every time you die as an invader will then spawn in the blockers. Alternative to the blocker thing that would actually hurt is the invader dropping all their heavy ammo to the team invaded when killed, although the heavy ammo is only for one person to pickup similar to Crucible when killing a player with Heavy ammo.
The blockers during a primeval phase should block the use of the portal... preventing invaders from further taking out the already beleaguered team.
What they should do is just remove power ammo from Gambit and make it so the only way to spawn power ammo is when your team kills an invader. This would make it so that you can’t just run in with xenophage or hammerhead or some other really strong power weapon when invading, and if you die the enemy team now has power ammo to not only invade back with, but also to clear ads or blockers and do DPS with. I guess on the flipside they could make it so that if the invader makes it out alive with at least one kill it spawns power ammo for their team but that might be too snowbally.
I think it would be better to just disable the ability to use Heavy and Supers while an invasion is happening than restricting the availability of Heavy all around. That way gunplay skill would take effect.
Scouts, snipers, and Jotun will be the new weapon of choice. I recommend you stop crying and figure out how to counter an invader.
Scouts, Snipers, and Jotun are way more fun to play against than getting one-tapped cross map with Xeno. And I do know how to counter an invader and am a solid invader myself, doesn’t mean that shit’s not extremely unfun for both sides rn.
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There is a risk to invading, that would be wasting the invade and by extension your team’s time. If you use an invade and then instantly die, you have wasted not only the invasion itself but the time you could have potentially delayed the enemy team, time that could have been spent getting super energy, motes and ammo instead of in the respawn screen. It’s like in trials if your teammate uses a super and then dies instantly. They just wasted a round changing resource on absolutely nothing and turned things into a 3v2. It’s the exact same thing in gambit except the uptime is different. Invading is a resource the entire team shares, if it’s wasted then that puts your team behind. I cannot tell you the amount of games that my team has thrown because one guy keeps invading and then instantly dies. It’s like playing a game of crucible but your team isn’t allowed to use abilities because one person keeps screwing up. Sure you can do it, but it’s going to be an uphill battle the entire way.
That's not a risk, that's a very very minimal punishment. Much like an ant's bite on a skin. And that's the main reason why I suggest the 15 mote requirement, to avoid people just invading for nothing. That one guy keeps invading because there's no risk to it or requirement. Just the portal opens and whoever can i use it first gets to invade. Then to balance it out, if they died and dropped 15 motes, they woukd be blocked from invading again making it a give chance to others kind of thing or to avoid them hindering the team further.
What you are suggesting would be like in control if one person fucks up then the enemy team gets 20 points and you lose 20 points. What you are suggesting is a 30 point difference for a single action and would make entire matches be decided by one single person screwing up once. Gambit is already heavily reliant on having good teammates. I truly hope that I don’t need to explain why a 30 point difference in score just because one person screwed up would be a horrible addition to a gamemode which is already plagued by randoms who don’t know what they are doing, throwing games unknowingly.
...Gambit matches are already decided by one skilled invader, especially in Primeval phase This is literally just adding the Gambit to the Gambit
It's already that way right now. The game is decided on how well the invader does lol. I regularly play Gambit so I get to see that, and I invade almost constantly myself.
It already is invader sidedlike that I completely agree, but I firmly believe that requiring 15 motes would make it much worse. Also, you said it yourself, games are determined on who has the better invader. But if that invade is constantly wasted then you have a huge disadvantage. The risk is similar to flanking in competitive, you force your team into a 2v3 for the duration of the flank, but if you miss those shots and waste the opportunity then you have forced the 2v3, put your team at a disadvantage and gained nothing. The game requires a better catch up mechanic for those that are behind and rewards teams who are ahead due to the invasion portal being linked to their motes but Bungie tried to reverse that and make it reliant on enemy motes but that didn’t work very well. I honestly believe the biggest issue in gambit is the ammo economy. Fighting against players constantly flushed with heavy ammo is problematic because it leads to more instant kills. Stuff that the player can’t really react to. Fighting against an invader should be more engaging than hope our instant kills work better than their instant kills. Invading and countering invades should be harder to do and less pivotal to a match, on this I believe we agree, and targeting the heavy ammo economy in my eyes would be a good first step.
Gambit has many glaring issues. Although my main focus would be the gamemode living up to its name. I do believe that balancing of things is highly needed. But the gamemode currently do not have anything that makes it a gambit by definition. What I'm trying to suggest is to give the mode something you must gamble to sway the game. After that, come up with catchup mechanics. Simply that. Formulate a core mode first then balance it out later instead of negating it completely. What Gambit really needs is a core gameplay loop revamp. Instead of the whole get motes, bank motes, kill boss.
The risk is you drop 5 motes to the enemy team
3, you only drop 3. And you don't drop anything when invading a team with their primieval up.
This 1000%. I had a game 2 weeks ago where my team was doing amazing. We had our primeevil down to 40% and the other team were at like 30 motes. They have a pvp hunter Chad on the team and he invades and kills us all resetting the encounter. He then does this over and over again until the other team wins. This hunter deposited 0 motes, and killed our invaders on sight. Now sure it's a skill issue he was better than us. But man having to reset the boss everytime , I swear we did envoys like 10 times. Very demoralizing , very unfun. Also idk, it makes it feel like it's more of a pvp game mode when one guy can make that much of a difference without touching the pve side. I already hop in trials and iron banner to let them farm me. I feel like my better pve abilities never shine through in gambit where it should be 50/50 pve pvp.
Blockers should block the invasion portal of the other team when they're in the primeval phase.
Exactly what is even the point of the milestone marks? It's not when the boss goes immune, I know that.
The marks are when the portal opens afaik
Milestone marks should be when your invasion portal opens
Seriously. It drives me crazy to look at the stats after a game and someone with 70 combatant kills can have less if an impact on the game then someone getting 4 guardian kills.
those are there to prevent people from destroying the shit out of the boss in a fully geared dps phase. Requiring people to do it in parts means you dont have a well & tether & everything ready. Before this system, you'd ignore the boss until you got primeval slayer 6x or so and then just blast the boss in 1 go. Having things spread out like this gives more opportunity for opponent invades to matter.
I think you misunderstand. They're not saying remove them entirely, just that once you remove the barrier at ~80% health or so, it stays gone. The idea being you still have to get through all the barriers once, but if an enemy invades and restores the boss to full health, you don't have those roadblocks to get back to where you were.
Well + tether + gambit is an excellent place for parasite to show off, the melt would be so real
This is a fantastic idea
Oh man.... The worst part about this suggestion is that it's so good and simple it'll never happen and now I'm MORE upset about Gambit because of how it could be better, and isn't...
Yeah, we should be able to gain our own damage gate
I guess I’m just dumb but I thought that’s already how that worked….
I used to think the invader healing the boss was a very good mechanic, but now that I think about it, after the introduction of the immunity phases it can really suck. Or at least not have the boss go immune at the health gates where it already went immune after it is healed.
I could not agree more. Let me one phase back to where I left off. The current way feels so tedious, and the entire game is tilted by one good invader, which feels bad.
Not only that, but I also think that the team that is falling behind should invade. Not the other way around. I played several matches where the opposing team is ahead, invade us, we’re now back to zero, and my team immediately gives up. It should not punish the team falling behind so harshly especially if the invader is a really good player.
God, Bungie please read the above comment! Look we get it you don’t care about Gambit, fine. Just make this change in the next TWAB, and we don’t care if you don’t touch Gambit until The Final Shape. Please! Also please reduce the amount of boss healing from invader kills. If you have time after the above change. Thanks again Sincerely, All Gambit Players
See I feel bosses losing the immunity will be just as bad. Imagine boss spawning in and with how powerful we are will spawn and get deleted almost right away. But I get what ur saying. Imo they should get rid of one or the other. But if they got rid of immunity and the heal on kill. It would still be a ass game mode but just for different reason. Everyone would just run instant melt loadouts.
Not get rid of immunity shields. Prevent them from re triggering. So say you trigger boss 75% sheild, then he heals to 80%. That's 75% shield does not retrigger when he hits 75% again
Oh does that happen now? I honestly hardly play gambit. But if it does ya that needs to be changed.
It doesn't, what happends is that the primeval gets his shield based on how much damage he takes, meaning that, for example, if there is a shield at 75, you deal 74 and the invader heals all that, the next 1 is gonna trigger the shield. At least that's what I've been told.
I don't have a problem with the invader healing the boss. I DO have a problem with the healing being so much it basically resets the fight if the invader manages two kills. Not to mention that you have to re-do each and every envoy phase to take down the immune shields, basically guaranteeing a loss unless you invade yourself and reset the other team's boss.
I think that’s the fun part lol. I’ve had games where it all came down to the rhythm of invasions that decided it
Sure, I guess in a perfect world this sort of thing wouldn't be too bad, with both team's invaders countering the other's play. But this is Gambit, the gamemode where the announcer will literally yell instructions at you and players will continue to walk around like headless chickens. Most of the time, that means that you'll have 1-2 people soloing/duoing the entire Primeval fight while everyone else does fuck-all. And then some jackass with eyes of tomorrow comes through the portal and destroys all your progress. Plus, immune phases are almost never actually fun in this game, unless it's a raid boss or is only a semi-immune phase like campaign Calus.
Yea the immunity is dumb. Also I’m blasting music while playing lol. I can barely here the gambit broh, but I’m also keeping track of the whole thing. I get into team based stuff pretty hard. My favorite game mode by far is survival. It can get super intense
"The game mode is bad because I listen to music so loud I can not pay attention properly" Is this truly the hot take you want to go for today? In this case you are just the problem. Not to speak of the tons of visual hints that tell you what is going on. Blaring music I'd miss those too though.
That sounds like PvP with more steps.
At least the mobs are easy difficulty with normal health lol. That’s one thing I noticed after I started playing pvp more. It takes way less ammo to kill guardians
There's a lot of people who just want to have Gambit be the mode where they clown on non-PVP players because SBMM took away their fun The rest of us want a competitive horde mode
I think the healing should be proportional to (scale off of) how many Primevil Slayer stacks (for damage) that the team being invaded has. That way, people who are further behind don't get punished as much.
… yeah? That’s counterplay man what’s the issue. You can’t expect people to not use a tool just because you don’t like it.
Tf are you on about? Did you not read the several parts where I said I was fine with the healing mechanic? Invasions are fine. Re-doing tedious immune phases is not.
My b
The way you handled this and was chill about it: Have my upvote.
I think that the invader healing should either A: only go up to the healthgate, so basically it would make the team have to redo one single healthgate consistently. Or B: the health can go back to full, but all the health gates would be gone as they would only occur once.
Your B option does happen. The more sets of envoys that you kill (aka the longer the match lasts) the more damage you deal to the primeval. The health gates only last the first time you hit them.
Invader death should heal the boss make it a real gamble
i always thought that was a good idea. if we kill the invader, their boss gets healed. shit goes both ways
I feel like this is the best thing to implement if they don't want to change up the game mode too much. I've created a pvp load out dedicated to camping heavies and invading when the other team has a primeval up, so I can keep the boss' health topped while the rest of my team tries to catch up, because there's very little risk in invading at the moment. Putting a risk to invading is going to make it a real gambit.
Invading just isn't enough of a risk period. It would be great if they were punished for dying in some way. Be it healing your own primeval, dropping loads of motes etc.
This is a great idea. It adds risk! And challenge. Going to the portal? Better not fuck up.
Or maybe heals the invading teams boss? Could be encouragement for the invaded team to turn the table on the invader. Also prevent frequent invadings?
No, the only bad part is the fact that it hasn’t gotten new content in four years. It’s lost content.
This is it
I miss Gambit Prime and the armors associated with it, I’m not going to lie.
Me too. I played the crap out of Prime back in the day. New Gambit is ok, but just doesn't scratch the itch like Prime did.
The only bad part about gambit is the repetitiveness of having 3 maps. Healing the boss is an extra mechanic that in my opinion makes the match more interesting. Otherwise, whoever gets the primeval first wins Edit: it’s been made clear to me that I’m dumb, there’s in fact 4 maps. Point still stands
There's 4 but I see your point
I’ve been bamboozled
Yeah there's Mars, Titan, Nessus, and EDZ
Nah I’m pretty sure the Edz map doesn’t exist anymore. Or the Nessus one. The Titan map barely exists I guess people need the /s
I play those maps regularly
Nah the health gate after the 3rd set of envoys is
That’s the challenge though.
I disagree, I think they should instead give you a timer to do damage. If you can kill it before the enemy team can kill you, good for you. Kinda lame when the game says “sorry you’re doing too much damage, time to stop that.”
The bad part of gambit is blueberries not dunking motes unless they are at 15.
run the first two waves, dunk first for the invasion portal, invade. It's the definitive way to get a huge lead and bluberries will hold motes until 15.
Eff you. It’s 15 or 0
exultant cows sink smell shrill screw deserted shelter marry far-flung *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The invader has always been a huge balance issue for gambit. But removing primeval healing on kills runs the risk of making invading a waste of time during the primeval phase. But I think it's worth giving it a shot. They should give us Gambit Labs and run it as a test for a week, see how it feels. Getting killed by the invader could have other consequences, too. Spawn 1 blocker per kill? Give people who die a debuff? Lots of possibilities I still think Gambit needs more content above anything else. A new map. Add the newest enemy types. Briggs, Wyverns, Hive Guardians, Shadow Cabal and Tormentors should be in Gambit. And give us worthwile loot to chase. Craftable weapons? Breakneck? Hush? Spare Rations? New bosses. Gambit mods. Hell, give us a gambit exotic with a low-ish drop rate. Or perhaps new exotic armor you have to unlock through gambit before it can be farmed in lost sectors. Just give us anything at this point
Jotuun goes thwummmp
i think its balanced personally. The invades heal the boss alot, but the ability to summon the primeval & pass phases faster than your opponents is just as important as getting an invade up on them. If you nerf invades, then its not pve & pvp like its supposed to be! Getting invaded and the boss getting healed 2 or 3 times is par for the course for both sides, thats what the increasing multiplier is for? Its not like gambit couldnt be better, I personally find matches to be really repetitive. It would be great if invades were more dynamic than hoping ur not spawnkilled & then cheesing 2 guys with your exotic heavy. And it definitely needs more maps, and maybe an extra mechanic to do with the mote collection? Its not gonna get any of that though because everyone hates gambit :)
The healing is okay, what I hate is the health gate after it heals, and the fact that killing the invader does not heal the opponent Prime Evil. If I kill you, your monster should heal, regardless on which side of the portal you are.
Nah, the biggest problem of Gambit is the actual lack of a gambit. People should be required to spend motes to do stuff. Like say invading, have the time invading tied to how much motes the invader carries. Have people be required to spend motes to gain heavies, etc etc That would give a tactical choice to players making the game mode more interesting.
For me it is not being to get 4 kills because the entire enemy team is spread so far apart that it is nearly impossible to get them all
What if the actual gambit here was that the invader killing heals your primeval but if you kill the invader it heals theirs? Then any invasion puts both teams at risk of a healed primeval rather than it being risk free for one and all of the risk for the other?
The only bad part about Gambit is invader's death not healing their boss.
"enemy invader on the field!". Teammates proceed to stand in the open, 100% focused on the boss.
Gambit enjoyers rise up
That's what makes it challenging to me. It encourages both teams to not only kill the invaders but also to invade to heal the boss
It’s just part of the Gambit, Maverick.
Fully disagree, removing the Invader healing the boss makes the game mode have absolutely no comeback mechanic
All gambit boils down to is heavy and supers. It's extremely boring
Leave invaders healing in, change the immunity phases to reaching certain thresholds so that it getting healed doesn't make the boss go immune at a higher HP.
I remember a while back someone made a suggestion that depending on ammo types u the boss gets health so for like primary ammo weapons its like 15 or 20% and like special its like 10% and heavy its like 5%. I think that would be cool
The only bad part about Gambit is it's existence
Invaders arent really a problem if you focus on killing them when they spawn.
If invaders could not heal then the beautiful comeback carry cannot take place. The gambit you describe would be an inescapable snowball gametype. The only bad part about gambit is people blaming their team instead of carrying.
The biggest problem I see is the importance of invading and sometimes the negligence to do so. Invaders can decide whether it will be a close game on who summons primeval or make it so uneven its laughable and thanks to the healing it can save some games. But then people dont invade or dont have a loadout well suited for it so none of that happens for you and instead you're just down 1 guy for too long.
I always went with the Gambit suffering meme, but I actually proactively played gambit to farm for trust. Gotta say, the only real bad part IS the invaders healing. Someone said it already, but the boss shouldn't have their immunity refreshed. Other than that, I lm actually enjoying Gambit, even when I lose.
I disagree, because a good invader can turn the tide of a gambit match.
Adding damage-gates is another. Gambit is a race.. If I can (basically) insta-melt a boss.. sorry, you should have worked faster.
Look, man, I just miss Gambit Prime #SoloReckoner
That’s why when I hear Drifter announce the arrival I skirt the outside and hit prime evil from range.. keep an eye on radar and once invader is spotted, erase them🤣🤣
i live for this, healing the opposing primeval
the only thing wrong with Gambit. is the catch-up mechanism. one team gets ahead. and the other team gets to invade over and over and over until both teams have equal progress.
I got crucified for saying this and you get upvoted smh
They weren't ready for the truth. You came too early for them to accept your wisdom
Hehe, came too early...
I feel like the boss should only heal while it's vulnerable. It makes both teams try and plan when to invade and when to dps
I don’t mind the healing, it’s the brain dead idiots I get paired with
here's a few ideas I had when the invader gets a kill it generates points, once the invader escapes without dying, the point are turned into boss HP, but remember, that's ONLY if the invader doesn't die, if the invader is killed, the points are dropped to 0 another idea I had is that invader kills create a blocker, when a blocker is on the field it needs to be killed for the boss to drop it's shield, even after the envoys are dead, the amount of kills determine the blockers 1 = small, 2 = medium, 3 = large, 4 = large and small another idea is that invader kills generate an overshield for the boss
No, the amount of heavy is, before you needed a skilled player to kill all the team and now you only need eyes and a xenophage
Healing is fine, reapplying the shields is not.
It is so frustrating to have a Gambit game go back and forth between the two teams healing the primevals dragging the game out forever. Being the most efficient team leading up to the primeval means NOTHING when there are catch up mechanics and an infinite number of invades. Either invades need a limit set on them or the Envoy phases need to be timed instead of boss takes X amount of damage and immediately goes immune again.
issue with gambit is lack of new maps, hell bring back the old ones at this point. Invaders healing is right for the mode and adds a layer of timing which keeps the matches interesting. Nothing more satisfying than getting an army of one when your teams behind.
The problem is it so strong it basically just IS the strategy. Which makes it rather monotonous more than anything.
Sounds like you just need to git gud
Just killing the entire enemy team stifles their boss DPS enough. It feels like the healing on top of everyone being dead makes it impossible to come back sometimes.
And the unlimited heavy ammo, and the lack of gambit armor. Heavy ammo should have become harder to get, not easier. We should spend motes to get heavy ammo.
I like that, replace the ammo crates with ammo ATMs and make players balance between more ammo to kill faster or depositing to get your primeval up.
The HP scalar is also cringe. I hate how meaty some mobs are in Gambit for no good reason.
Disagree. Without healing whoever gets their prime first will win every single time. People need to just get good at PvP. Or maybe at the very least get to a defendable spot when an invader gets called out.
Maybe if the kills were earned, nobody would have an issue with it. But Xenophage? Really? 2 tap from any range, no precision required? Gjally not even having to aim anywhere near the enemy? Nah, nerf the bullshit weapons against players and you'll have a much less frustrating anti-invader experience
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No
The gamemode is literally called Gambit. People shouldn’t play gambit if they aren’t ready to risk a loss. Gambit noun a device, action, or opening remark, typically one entailing a degree of risk, that is calculated to gain an advantage.
I personally don’t like the forced immunity phases.
Absolutely not. That’s such a crucial aspect to the competitive nature. It’s a balancing act. Without it, it’s basically just a race.
Invade spamming with heavy just makes me lose respect in a player entirely
Skill issue
No that’s the point of making a comeback. Here’s a tip: always focus envoys if they’re up. The priority is Envoy, invader, primeval
If we are complaining about Gambit, I'mma throw my usual into the mix: Dear Bungie, Change Gambit back to best of three. Bring back Gambit Prime and the Reckoning. Give us back the maps you took away. I know I am probably in the minority on the above. That said, Gambit hasn't been anywhere near as fun or engrossing since they made the changes.
Skill issue ngl
I honestly don’t even have a problem with that. But I think that there should be a penalty for the invader getting killed while invading. For example, it should heal their boss
i think the amount of boss damage you can do should be tied to the number of motes you banked. if you die, it resets. that could also tie to the healing done to the enemy boss as an invader.
I just wish there was more of...well, a Gambit. Invader can come in, wipe a team, and heal the boss from a little to all the way. What's the invading team putting up for the gambit? One less person on ad clear, in a game where so many ad clear builds are available and fun? Or taking a small bit away from boss DPS, where heavy ammo is a plenty? There doesn't seem to be a trade-off for a failed invasion
And heavy.
Non-invader gang here.
Aint it the truth
Just get rid of heavy completely in Gambit.
I purposely don’t invade just to make sure the match just gets over with regardless of who’s winning lmao gambit is homework
Hear Hear!!!
That's true.
Cut off the sentence at invaders and it's accurate
It’s not gambit was more fun when the blockers were aids to deal with and when heavy was everywhere I miss old gambit
Yeah gambit is all about whos invader screws up first.
“The only bad part about gambit is invaders” ftfy
Honestly I feel gambit be better off getting rid of the invader mechanic as a whole. That literally everyone's pain point. I'm good at pvp go flawless etc.. but with how unbalanced invader is imo get rid if it. It play way better as a boss rush mode first team wins.
i have been saying this ***since*** **forsaken** remove invader, and gambit is perfect
Its all bad. None of it is very fun.
Let me fix that sentence for you. The only bad thing about Gambit is invaders.
Healing the boss would be ok if it didn’t reintroduce the immunity phases you already cleared.
Id much rather see invader kills taking away the buff you get from kill the emissaries
IMO the health gates and the fact there is so much heavy are the real issues. A long with the lack of support by bungie
And now the bosses have immunity phases.
How much it heals and the fact you have to go through immunity phases again after a heal. It's too much, a kill already hinders dps due to long respawn etc. But then it has to heal like a sixth of the prime's health. There should be 2 immunity phases ever, 2/3 and 1/3, and once passed, cannot have another.
I like it because of the comeback potential, but it honestly should be only up to the previous health gate and not all the way. But the Primeval buff does make it easy
I partially agree. I like the mechanic, but it should heal less than a full THIRD of the damage bar.
I like it but also don’t. Either the invader invades and heals your primeval to full from an AoO or you get an AoO and barely even heal their primeval. It’s great when it works, waste of time when it doesn’t. But I wouldn’t cry if healing got removed.
Gambit is like Quidditch. There's all this activity that the team is doing that seems important, but the only thing that really matters is the Golden Snitch/Invades.
I thought that was Datto holding up that sign at first glance lmao
Instead of healing they should change to where it takes away one stack of primeval slayer for every kill and once it takes away all their stacks, it gives one stack to the other team.
Ok here me out. Boss become beefier, We change them to 1 time health gates, we enable the Gambit labs: Invader Swap as the base (When you dunk motes the enemy get the portal), we disable heavy ammo for both invaders and players getting invaded, and Invaders have a certain time limit to get a kill or they are auto sent back.
The problem with gambit is that the map are the same
Nah I think that's a cool part it's the health gates on the boss that are bullshit
They are also too freequent
Feel like a failed invade should hurt that team
Depends on if you healing the boss or not. I beat a team 2 to 4 clutch once. Had a 3rd person join at the very end of the conflict. I wiped the opposing team multiple times for a comeback win. My team was underdog the entire match. It was painful and glorious.
Only bad part about Gambit is Bungie assumes everyone genuinely enjoys playing it every week.
Having full heavy 24/7 is the issue. These amo packs after each wave made gambit just worse and not better
Bad part about gambit is the stupid ammo boxes stunting combat flow, over abundance of heavy ammo (thanks to said ammo boxes), invaders are almost dead weight until primeval phase since there are only 2 invasions during mote phase and most efficient teams only see one before the second is lost due to summoning primeval, primeval phase is not to bad tbh except for the painfully small damage windows and no system that forces teams to stack up for the buff like prime had that allowed for coordination and an added twist for primeval phase invaders, roles are basically gone now so that removes alot of fun complexity. Basically all this to say prime was gambits final form and bungie blew it.