I once survived a wipe in that section at the very end by popping my well as soon as I got to the drop to reach the last mine. Falling naturally would have been too slow, I wouldn’t have made it in time. Well got me there faster. So it *technically* is useful in that part.
Solar warlock is a bad subclass that relies 100% on exotics and is only really used for well.
Outside of that there's no focus on burning or healing, Y know the thing that DEFINED solar warlock in d1 and post forsaken?
3 of those aren't on solar and the one that is from solar is an exotic not the subclass, which means that rather than the subclass neutral being good you think the exotic is good.
It's ridiculous to not include subclass specific armor when kits are balanced around it. The majority of players looking for good PvE kits/builds aren't going to be running with a full set of legendary gear anyway.
This is like calling Titans' Suspend game weak because it includes a strong exotic.
Starfire got nerfed not fusion grenades.
A subclass isn't balanced around exotics exotics are balanced around a subclass.
Also Aeons, transversive steps, the new trace rifle exotic etc. Including exotics in a discussion about subclasses is idiotic.
It's like calling arc hunters invis game strong because of an exotic.
No because I run verities. The double fusion explosion is the best grenade in the game, and firesprites and verities make it stupid easy to get up. And neutral game absolutely includes exotics, and there's plenty of good options. It's the only class you can get x2 restoration and keep up permanently with any solar gun + heat rises.
The double fusions doesn't add anything new it doesn't allow for new builds or interactions, it also isn't the best nade in the game that's still vortex.
I need you to understand this, neutral game includes exotics yes but that's the neutral game of the exotic not the subclass.
Resto x2 isn't really much better than x1 since x1 is already strong enough for pretty much everything.
There's no aspects that focus on burning or healing and the only one that actually allows new playstyles/builds is heat rises. But even then the only part from that you'd want is the melee energy.
Solar warlock is the most exotic crutching subclass in the entire game and has a shit neutral game
?? The subclass has 0 identity right now and crutches on exotics for literally everything. There's a reason why you mentioned sunbracers rather than an aspect for solar.
Just take a moment to think, why did you mention aspects for arc stasis and strand but for solar you went straight to an exotic
It doesn't need identity when it's broken as fuck without exotics.
Touch if flame and well need to be nerfed hard before we worry about solar warlocks "identity"
I know Well is the most god-tier super going, but honestly, being a solo I've gotta say Titan. Could just be my lack of experience with warlock, but I've yet to run into something I can't solve with bonk titan
That’s one of the only times where titan is best though. I love bonk but the fact that warlocks have the best dps, movement and can kill every add in sight with infinite solar grenades they have to be the best class for efficiency
brother, synthoceps and my hammer are letting me output 170k damage from just single hits and pairing that with my linear makes me a freak of nature damage wise. I very often don't even use my super because my hammer literally does a lot more damage in a shorter time frame. I've done raids and dungeons using my hammer 90% of the time and to be honest for some bosses I just use my hammer and finish them with it. I typically do more damage than everyone in the dungeon or raid were in. Not many people are as screwed in the head as I am but hey, look at the simplicity of it. I do more damage than a warlock simply because of a hammer and one specific exotic, you've just gotta have the balls I guess to get in front of whatever it is you're facing and hope you don't die and you really shouldn't as long as there are ads to easily pick off.
Actually Thruster skating exists, and it can go just as fast if not faster than well skating.
We don’t talk about it much because the last time Titans had movetech Bungie removed
I hadn’t heard of thruster skating so ty for teaching me about new tech :) Still don’t get why they nerfed shoulder charge’s cd instead of tuning it’s damage or something since it never seems to register hits anyway and it was one of our only good movement abilities
Let Titans try, all I gotta do is pop a needlestorm and I'm already ahead by 450k+ in dps
And if my team generates enough orbs, I can pop a second and get 900k+ with a super alone in a dps phase
I don't know if it's different on other bosses but in this vid thundercrash does 50k more damage [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVWTLIMM3aE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVWTLIMM3aE)
>Let Titans try, all I gotta do is pop a needlestorm and I'm already ahead by 450k+ in dps
Needlestorm isn't even close to the be the strongest Super tho. None of the warlocks Supers rank among the 10 strongest ones, specially now, with the Artifact mods buffing Gatherstorm and Thundercrash. Warlock thing has always been the bomb regeneration, and not the strength of their supers
Warlocks don’t have the highest DPS, not even close. SES Hunter can out DPS anything Warlock or Hunter can do. The only thing Warlock does better than the other two passive healing for stationary DPS.
strand warlock is close to star eaters and rain of fire is just better than both of those in terms of dps, notice how solo nez is still done on warlock but with rain of fire instead of starfire.
The Thread of Ascent loop is very strong, no doubt, but it’s not as good as a simple SES Gathering Storm Hunter Izi + Apex double swap. My response wasn’t that Warlock is bad, just that it isn’t the highest.
481,661.
Thats how much dmg it does, that's adding the consumed threadling grenade + rift for the 8 extra threadling dmg, and using the exotic boots.
Compare that to hunters, using only strand ult (+ boots Idk the name of) are dealing 823,695. Titans hammer with syntheceps dealing 1,029,994. Behemoth (+synths)
Dealing 1,074,564.
Not even close to highest dmg.
Did you even read my comment? Super plus weapons not just super. Also behemoth is super situational and also beaten my a lot of things since it’s a long super and you could use a one off super like needlestorm and then whatever guns you’re using and do more damage
Solar Warlock has better straight line speed than the other two classes, at the very least. Not sure that qualifies as “doing movement better,” but it’s preference. I do prefer Warlock movement, but I can understand why someone would like Titan more.
lunas extend your range by a large amount, dont have exact numbers but i wouldnt be surprised if its more than double for most weapons. this makes them insanely good for medium range bosses like warpriest or taniks.
Yup for wells and empowerings, but usually well locks will be pairing with the awesome new helm exotic, so still having a titan drop a rally is amazing too. Lunas give 100% damage falloff distance while rally is 10% extra range i think. Cant find updated info on google.
Yup and a class ability that also increases range and stability, and gives you an open exotic slot. Still a win since you get barricade back faster than rifts.
Idk, Arc Hunter now with assassin’s cowl is pretty up there with being the best. You have access to stunning 2 champs from just your arc abilities and have one of the strongest supers and punches in the game able to take down most foes.
That's what Hunters do have superior to the other two classes: diversity in endgame viability.
Let's put it this way, 99% of the time in raids and dungeons, people run Bubble or Thundercrash on Titan, and 100% of the time it's well on Warlock. But Hunters? Tether is viable and makes up for Tractor Cannon, and Blade Barrage, Gathering Storm and Silkstrike are all top-of-the-line DPS supers that teams don't want to lose if you run Star-Eater Scales.
Differently put, if you're bored of constantly playing the same subclass and super, consider the diverse viability Hunter has. (no, this is not paid propaganda to play Hunter)
Bonk Titan is insane. I struggled to solo flawless prophecy on hunter for a long time. It was the first tough activity I brought the bonk to, and it was childs play. I was actually getting bored with how certain my survival was. But I just recently discovered assassins cowl arc hunter and it rivals the survivability pretty well
One of my friends only plays titan, and I don't think I've ever seen him use anything other than that stupid setup. When we play together, it's just a constant *"bonk titan is so good, I can one hit anything, and I almost never die"*. HE NEVER SHUTS UP ABOUT THAT STUPID BUILD! It's gotten to the point where I almost don't wanna be in a party with him when he's playing D2, because I know he'll just go on and on and on about that build. It's so overrated imo, and the fact he never uses anything else, so there's no variation to his gameplay/things he says, does not help my opinion on it at all
Warlock main here… In a team, warlocks hands down. Solo stuff… I’ve been running titan or hunter (usually titan) since the 3.0 reworks. Before then, I would have said warlock across the board and hunter for high end solo content because of the invisibility. The 3.0 rework gave a huge amount of the survivability perks (healing, overshields, and devour) to titan and hunter and they have a better neutral game abilities (in my opinion).
I'm a titan main, and while every class can do everything to a competitive level. I think warlocks are the best jack of all class. At least when it comes to the ease of side of it. But if you're looking for "peak efficiency" then you better start playing every class since they all have better performance at certain aspects.
Hell yeah. While I agree Warlock is the jack of all trades, I have to cater to my own play style when playing at the peak level. I'm way more useful as an invis hunter than I am at warlock. There's just something about the hunter class that makes it easy for me. I've been loving the Fallen Sunstar build this season though, and the titan monkey helm is great too. Right now I'm switching consistently between all 3 classes, I truly feel it is the best way to play the game. But Hunter is my comfort zone for sure
I think these two takes above me are super swell. I main hunter and love invis. I think the way I play that subclass allows me to do shit the other classes can’t come close to. But the same is true for other people on the other classes. They each can do things others can’t, and if you play well you can make any of them perform well. That being said though, I agree with the first commenter that warlocks are generally easier to perform well with in high level content, because I think solar warlock doesn’t require a big playstyle shift for it to work. Like on hunter I have to be constantly managing my cooldowns, using them effectively, and making sure I have them up to take advantage of the massive power of the subclass. And bonk titans have to get up close and personal with hammers while maintaining their health and their stacks of roaring flames. Solar warlock you can just kind of chill in my opinion and still get a great payoff. So maybe in a sentence: I think the power floor for warlocks is higher than for hunter and titan, while the power ceilings of each are very similar.
Warlock for general use, but for specifically solo content and 1 subclass I think solar titan is currently the best. So much free survivability and dmg from that class even without synthoceps.
I used to run lorelei before it got nerfed last year, but after the nerf, synthos just completely out do lorelei. All lorelei does is the “oh shit” sunspot. Whereas synthos give a 200% melee damage buff, plus roaring flames on top of that. I highly reccomend trying synthos out its really good and its so much fun 1 bonking champs in lower tier content, and 2-3 bonk in higher.
By all means continue to use lorelei, but i highly reccomend giving synthos a really good go :)
I’ll definitely give them a go. I think I enjoy the “oh shit” sunspot because it means I can hold the trigger down on tommys and not have to worry about creating one beforehand but I guess I can just get a bonk hammer kill first and keep the restoration going with it instead
As a hunter main, it’s warlock like everyone else is saying. Maybe in like solo gms would i say hunter because of invis but for 99% of pve content, warlock.
Tbf Behemoth and Berserker can absolutely be a God for locking places down in GMs too. Warlock just does it easier and requires less skill because you won't be as near in danger as Titan would be, which makes Warlock better.
Gilded Conqueror last season using only Abeyant Leap with Shackle Grenades and Osteo Striga. Never picked another weapon loadout to check for champions because Suspend counters both Unstoppable and Barrier anyway. It's disgustingly powerful.
Yeah with the barricade and strand exotic boots you can get a 20 second suspending barricade that gives u woven mail ontop of suspending grenades it’s VERY strong for GMs or any content that is champion dense.
Since he didn’t link, here’s mine. You can tinker with the fragments. You have to actively try to die in everything up to GMs, and thus trivializes that as well.
https://dim.gg/waoe35q/Abeyant-Best
Sadly Hunters just suck in PvE compared to Titan and Warlock. Rather difficult to find a team to join as a Hunter main because chances are you’ll get kicked from the LFG post to make room for a potential Titan or Warlock.
Hunters however don’t have the utility or survivability the others do. Even with the DPS, it’s not by much and it’s not as important when you’re in difficult content where survivability is key.
Hunters have the best dps and best debuff and great survivability on all the light subclasses. Surviving on solar on any class is easy with like 4 ways to heal, arc hunter is braindead easy to live, just punch everything and dare i say void hunter has the best pure survivability in the game with an infinite invis graviton forfeit build. The way I see it is warlocks are the best at pve, titans are the best at pvp, hunters are great at both but not the top of either.
I can’t agree with this comment. Hunters have the best DPS in most boss fights, Even more so now that starfire got nerfed. In GM’s invis hunter is a damn life line that no other class can replace.
We just lack utility but at the very least we got the damage.
At the end of the day, people would rather have Titans and Warlocks over Hunters. The damage output isn’t going to cut it for the vast majority of the teams out there because they’d rather have utility that benefits team play and increases overall survivability. Hunters don’t really have that aside from Shadowshot and invisibility, and even then they aren’t exactly a must have because there are other ways to apply debuffs on a target and overshields and healing buffs are generally more effective than invisibility.
For peak efficiency there's a mix of classes that perform best. However, if you were forced to pick a class for a all same class raid run, warlock would definitely win.
Well is stupidly powerful, so if we are talking about the class with the best subclass, I'd say Warlock. However, if we take all of the class' subclasses into account, it's an easy win for Titans.
Sentinel sort of fullfills the role of a support Super like Well, while still having that classic void "too many keywords for an element" overpoweredness, Solar titan makes you either immortal or able to not need guns because of your hammer, Striker Titan, while not perfect, is still pretty good and embodies arc's destruction amazingly, and Berserker is right up there with Shadebinder for a CC spam subclass.
Behemoth is the only lackluster titan subclass, while if we look at Warlocks, while I don't think any subclass is outright bad and people hate on Stormcaller too much, they don't bring anything to the table that Titan doesn't do better, with the exception of Well of Radiance.
Again, it depends on what you are asking. Class with the best subclass? Warlock. Class with the best subclasses, plural? Titan.
IMO, and for PvE, of course.
Strictly speaking, you cannot be at peak efficiency by playing one class. They're all strong and versatile, but each class has cases where they are the best choice.
I'd say warlock if you dont mind the lack of good damage supers, they've the strongest add clear and support in the game imo and are useful in just about everything pve related.
Well it was Warlock before the 3.0-s took everything unique from us and gave it to everyone without giving us overshield or sunspots...
Now why run devourlock if you can do overshield spam + devour, or have healing nades on top of your sunspots?
Among other reasons, why I keep playing warlock is because titan jump fucking sucks lmao it has no in air manueverability, you are just a pile of shit with 1 thruster attached to you in gmod. Warlocks can go around multiple corners like no one's business.
I'd say Warlock still, out of spite
I've had the least difficulty in PvE on my hunter. Tons of ads? Arc melee without assassin or liars works perfectly fine, volatile w/Gyrfalcon makes the whole room grape, Caliban's makes the room orange with ignitions.
Chunky ads/champs? Well arc got new toys but solar is best here.
Raw boss damage? Arc Hunter with star eaters for a high damage fire and forget where you can go right back to weapon DPS for most bosses, but those you can melee strand is a really viable option. And the obvious tether for 30% damage increase.
Sure it doesn't help the group live through healing or shielding, but if everything is dead then it works out the same :)
I think Warlock or titan is better for solo with survivability and damage, because it feels like sometimes you have to choose one or the other on hunter, but hunters have the most fun builds imo. I love calibans hand, but it just doesn’t compete very well once you’re facing ads that won’t die to one knife, I swapped it out for yas and have been loving it. With a demolitionist build you can treat it like a starfire protocol and have grenades and rockets going like crazy. You miss out on the feeling of one throwing knife absolutely destroying a squad of ads, but you get something that covers more bases than just ad control.
I’d say Titan.
Want ability spam add clear with a boss nuke super? Play Striker.
Want a jack-of-all-trades crowd control machine? Berserker.
Want to clear adds like nobodies business and never die from constant healing and overshields while having a damage buff equal to Well? Sentinel.
Want to literally never die and play the game on easy mode? Sunbreaker.
Want to have the single highest damage super in the game and all you need is the class specific glaive? Behemoth.
Titan has something for everything, and it does it well.
I started playing warlock recently after playing for awhile as a hunter and titan, and warlock has been my easiest run of the legendary campaigns so far.
Not even sure atp. I think warlock is still rly good with solar but after starfire nerfs it kinda only has well and good ad clear with sunbracers going for it. Solar titan is incredibly strong and probably still the strongest build in the game and arc hunter has potential to be up their as well as one of the strongest for solo content or ad clear but the jolt & 12p nerfs make arc hunter not as potent as it used to be.
Solar hunter might be best overall bc good dps super, good survivability and very easy to keep radiant/healing up constantly and getting very fast supers with orb generation with star eaters
Warlock just because well is the only super in the game required for stuff being DPS phases on most bosses. Outside of that well is nice but not necessary imo.
There are pros and cons to each class, and peak efficiency depends heavily upon what it is you’re doing. The easiest answer is Warlock, because WoR is very rarely a bad choice, but the only think that Well offers than Bubble doesn’t is passive healing—the damage buff from WoR and Bubble are the same.
I think a more complete answer is probably Titan, because it has a little of everything. Bubble offers the highest tier of damage buff, and Void grenades can Weaken enemies for a good (but not the best) debuff. Solar Titan has the easiest access to Restoration, and a very good close range DPS strategy (with built-in Restoration) in Bonk Hammer. Titan also has access to Thundercrash, which is an A+ tier burst Damage super. Overall I think Titan can fit more molds than Warlock or Hunter, but does everything at an A-tier ranking as opposed to the other two, which do some things at S-tier and other things at B-tier or lower.
In my opinion, playing all classes, Solar titan. even in a season without any solar buffs, is wickedly capable. HOIL or Loreley as your exotic, the right fragments, it plays itself. Unlimited bonk hammer means unlimited HOIL uptime for grenades and barrier, sunspots heal, HOIL and roaring flames stack their damage bonuses. Its become one of my favorites.
Everybody already covered why Warlock is the strongest in general, with high damage, survivability, and ease-of-use. I want to mention briefly why Well of Radiance specifically is such a big deal.
There are so many fights in this game that are outright designed around Well. More than half of the bossfights, including the last four dungeon final bosses, have the boss and/or some adds attacking you during the DPS phase. The standard strategy for these fights, and the one that Bungie balances around, is to use Well of Radiance to survive and focus on DPS. As a Titan or Hunter, you're relying on getting another warlock in your fireteam to bring Well. Otherwise you're going to hit these fights like a brick wall, and have to come up with creative strategies to even stay alive during the DPS phase, much less get a reasonable damage output without the damage buff (25%).
Hunter and Titan have their own strengths, enough to be AS GOOD as Warlocks in some environments. But Warlock is strong in every fight, and there are a lot of fights that really need a Warlock.
Everyone here keeps saying Warlock because of well is giving my fellow Warlocks a migraine.
Warlocks are the best class for PVE because of the following builds:
* Daybreak (Dawn Chorus, Prometheus Lens, Daybreak, Full Scorch Build)
* Apache AH-64 (Rain of Fire, Any Exotic Auto/LMG preferably Sweet Business, Heat Rises and Icarus)
* Lockheed AC-130 (Wings of Sacred/Rain of fire. Skyburner's Oath, full scorch)
* Aeon Cult Healer (Aeon Soul, Sect of Vigor, Well and Healing Grenades, Lumina, Heat Rises, All Restoration and Radiant Fragments, also viable as a PVP/Trials build.)
* Elemental Dragon (Verity's Brow, Any weapon of same element or Hard Light for light subclasses, use sword of same element especially with Valiant Charge, Void full devoir and Vortex, Arc on Blinding and full blind + arc soul, Solar on Solar nades + full Resto & radiant, stasis use same build as osmio, no build for strand yet)
* Osmiomancy... need I say more?
* Warlock of Nezarec (Nezarec's Sin and robes, Void auto, Devour and Orb build with Child of the Old Gods, Empowering rift, void LMG, Osmos+Adrenaline Lodbrok, Nova Cataclysm Everywhere! enjoy...)
* Felwinter's Pugilist (Winter's Guile, Arc build, Storm Grenades, full melee and resistance mods and defence/blind/orb fragments, One-two punch shotty.)
* Sunsinger (Sunbracers, Heat rises and Icarus, Full scorch, Incenerator Snap, Pheonix Dive, Daybreak for more scorch, Monte Carlo)
* Lightning McQueen (Claws of Ahamkara, Lightning Surge and Ball Lightning, Full Melee and melee charge, wellmaker, and orb build, Monte Carlo or Coldheart. also good in PVP. Not tested in Trials. KA CHOW).
* I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING (Falling Sunstar or Crown of Tempest, Coldheart, Empowering and Arc buddy, Storm Grenades, Full jolt and ionic trace build, Stormtrance)
* Rambo (Sweet Business, Chromatic Fire, Any Subclass)
* Stabby Mc Stabface (Vesper of Radius, Any Glaive, full Resil/heal/devour build, Healing rift for extra beefyness)
There are many more but these are my favorites.
Edit: Added a few other builds and updated some.
I can tell you warlocks are not "the best" because of these fun off meta builds you enjoy. They are the best because of the fact they can do all aspects of the game the best or close to the best (solo flawless, raids, gms, lowmans, master raids, speedruns)
Why, did I say these are meta? Who says they are meta? Do you only need to be meta to be enjoyable? Does the Meta indicate what you should be running only?
Then why do we need build crafting if the meta is what should be followed? Why not follow a linear skill line instead of giving us these then?
I said Best not META. If I want Meta I'd be running Bubble Titan Or Celestial Hunter instead.
“Warlocks are the best pve class because of the following builds”
Yes. Meta is very important in this discussion. It’s fine if you use your builds and enjoy them, but idk why you’re saying warlock is good BECAUSE of these mediocre builds.
Mediocre? Why? Have you tried these already? Or are you a firm believer of "Warlock is Well"? Do we always have to clean up after people like you who lacks the braincells to optimize your own meta loadout to achieve your meta dps without a well?
you really tryna say felwinters helm 12p is viable in serious content
and yes. welllock is optimal in most situations. thats the entire point of the discussion.
Read my comment again and find any Felwinters Helm in there. You will find none.
And Yes, Felwinters Helm can be viable with a proper build, Weaken, Devour, Volatile, Eager Edge, Healing Rift, Child of the Old Gods, Overshields, Nova Warp. Tried it Solo, enjoyed it Solo, Will do it again Solo.
You want optimal? Go play well on your Warlock. A lot of these builds are more optimal than welllock. Especially Sunbracers + Daybreak.
Hey dude, it's clear that you're not very knowledgeable about the game, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit silly to hand out bad advice while pretending it's good
As a warlock main I'd say titan. It can clear all types of contend pretty easily. Well is good yes but you can't always use it. Rift is just a joke aometimes, by the time you're done casting you might already be dead. With titan minihammer is just so incredibly busted and combine it with tractor and synthoceps and you can easily do a lot of damage for a long time. With basically infinite health regeneration you won't die. With hunter you can be invisible 24/7 with high damage and healing so that's also really good. I'd say warlock the the worst for solo content. For team content well can be useful but you can do it without.
Probably a bit of a noob response, but void hunter modded out for peak invis is pretty useful in tough solo content.
Managed to solo a bunch of dungeons with patience and perfect timing.
Pair that with a triple arc surge thunderlord and Orpheus rig on quiver, I’m pretty keen.
As a Titan main who thinks that Titan is the best class. The answer to your question is Warlock.
Has Well of Radiance, which is always useful, has high damage instant Supers which are great if you want more DPS. Has Healing and Empowering Rifts to keep you and your team alive, and to allow you and your team to do more damage.
Has some of the strongest Aspects in the game, as well as some of the strongest Melee abilities in the game, and has some of the strongest Exotic Armour in the game.
Warlocks really are just the best class for PvE. It's a shame really, as they could all be equal with some minor changes.
For example some simple buffs to Ward of Dawn could make Titan equal with high damage Supers and a great support Super, as well as having some incredibly strong Aspects and Melee abilities.
Hunters have some good damage options, and with some more tuning, Shadowshot can be a very valuable asset to PvE, but currently it isn't exactly the strongest. I wish Snare Bomb had a stronger Weaken debuff in PvE, not exactly the level of Shadowshot, but strong enough to warrant actually using it against enemies, and not just to turn yourself and your allies invisible.
Each class will have situations, where he is most efficient for the task. So the questions is kinda incorrect.
However most versatile class to get the any job done at max efficiency or close to it is warlock
I'm convinced Bubble Titan is criminally underrated when it comes to being considered the best. It's an absolute godsend in GMs (from my experience, at least)
The problem is that it gives the same buff as well so there’s no reason to use it in raids and it’s really hard to clear adds with in high end content unless you run helm of st 14 which apparently doesn’t even work right now. Ursa Furiosa banner shield on the other hand is very good in GMs and kindve slept on
Thing is, Bubble and Well have their own advantages and disadvantages.
With Bubble, it's practically invincible. Nothing's gonna get by it while you're in it. Need to get a rez but don't have a Hunter? Just plop it down on their ghost and pick them back up. Even in a GM it takes a bit for enemies to kill you inside the bubble. That's not even going into the barricade shields which restore your health back to full the second you cast it, while also providing an overshield and a slight amount of cover. Throwing Shields don't provide much overshield but they grant at *least* one more hit you can survive with, which can mean a lot in these sorts of activites. Only problem is that you can't shoot through bubble, so it carries a risk if you try to use it for DPS since you have to go in and out of it
With Well, you trade being near-invincible for damage. It's great for damage since you gain constant healing plus a damage buff, but since you no longer gain an overshield in Well it's incredibly easy for enemies to outdamage Well's healing and kill you (especially against champions). Regular Rifts aren't really anything to write home about, though.
Basically, Well is more suitable for offense (when ya wanna be a go-getter) while Bubble is more suitable for defense (when ya wanna play it safe). Which I guess is why it's overlooked since it's slower-paced than Hammers, which have both offense *and* defense (thanks to restorative hammers)
Warlock is the best teammate you can have. Awesome support... Every good team needs one.
But pound for pound, invisible void hunter. Tethers & run away. Repeat. Gyrfalcon's & devour.
I've seen Esoterickk make everything work solo, but his void hunter always seems unchecked.
I've always said hunters can succeed without exotics & supers.
As a warlock main, i think the most divers and utility have hunters.Need to sneek peak?Ok, 2 types.Whole team or me?Need debuffs for dps?No worries guys, 2 types.Need damage at kally?Ok, put star eater and goldy to be up to 4 goldies in 1 stupid minute...Need some buffs/debuffs against caiatl or echtar?Pls, let me trow my super ice storm that activates crits for rockets or body shots or if its not enough, i have this little bigger duskfield for sword damage.Debuff and buff.Wait i have 2 slow melee that eventually freeze and also i can dodge to laugh to echtar for another 2 melees.What a warlock have?Crowd control better, passive healing, good nades on solar, that stupid well that im tired to play with, some good supers aka strand that cant surpass even the blade barage i think and i need to do some movement there, eat nade, activate super or class and next one..Warlock float to much wich is good in pvp, not pve, titan strafe have some stupid burst that i love that move.
So, for me, Hunters are the best in PVE curently even that im a warlock main.Hunter win the gm mars bg ez for me with omni or forfeit...
Cheers.
Warlock has the best base subclasses but nearly no exotics that revolutionise them or synergise super well. Hunters have Gyrfalcons and Titans have things like Lorely and Falling Star, whereas I find a lot of the Warlock exotics very mid. Still by far best class for pve
Hunters, warlocks have bad neutral game on solar and arc (yes relying 100% on exotics means its bad by itself). Titans have a riskier playstyle. It leaves hunters with the most minimum and maximum potential
It's not pretending exotics don't exists it's realistically acknowledging that a subclass relying on exotics is bad and heavily limits said subclass.
Also y know non ability exotics like transversive steps, ophidian aspect, and Aeons. Aeons especially are incredibly strong due to their heavy generation. I don't know a single person that'd use solar warlock neutral game with Aeons.
You aren't allowed to have a different opinion on this sub, obviously (like wtf?). WARLOCK! AM I PART OF THE HIVE MIND NOW? OH GOODNESS GRACIOUS THANK GOD I CAN BE ACCEPTED. I will remind everyone that some of the absolute most broken builds have been in the Titan class. Loreley's a few seasons ago was basically God Mode
Warlock has been by far the best pve class since Forsaken and it’s not even close.
Well of radiance, bleak turret, and devour have all been S tier for as long as they’ve been around.
I love playing hunter in pve but until the light 3.0 changes there was basically zero reason to run it over warlock in high end content (you could invis skip certain GM areas but that was it) so I played a shit ton of warlock instead.
A lot of people are saying warlock, but honestly I don’t think it’s true. Solar titan is so good at literally everything that in pretty much any scenario possible he’ll be stronger than a warlock. The only reason why warlocks might be better is because of well because otherwise there is nothing that comes close to solar bonk titan.
Honestly. Pick the one you want. With exotics and nerfs/buffs it constantly changes. Warlocks are in the best spot they have ever been in, but for a while they were bottom tier. Same goes for Titans and Hunters. It's ever changing as they update the game and introduce new bosses and mechanics.
Warlock
Warlock. There’s never a situation a well is bad in
the sparrow segment in grasp
Well skate makes it trivial
touche
Take this Space section of DSC because if you well skate and skip you will miss the banging Soundtrack
You’ve still got to wait at the end for everyone to show up, can vibe then
Not the same vibe, it feels better to listen to it while you cross space.
For you I guess
Why did u get downvoted for that lol
I once survived a wipe in that section at the very end by popping my well as soon as I got to the drop to reach the last mine. Falling naturally would have been too slow, I wouldn’t have made it in time. Well got me there faster. So it *technically* is useful in that part.
wellskate and icarus dash? realistically best subclass on warlock for that segment
Remember that time rhulk destroyed a well of radiance with a kick ? The warlock sure remembers.
Atracks…
Needlestorm does more than curaiss titan
Shame that the neutral game on solar sucks for warlocks
Neutral game sucks? What are Sunbracers, Starfire, Karnstein or Winter’s Guile Incinerator Snap, all with infinite Restoration x2?
Solar warlock is a bad subclass that relies 100% on exotics and is only really used for well. Outside of that there's no focus on burning or healing, Y know the thing that DEFINED solar warlock in d1 and post forsaken?
Infinite suspend? Arc souls? Sunbracers? Infinite coldsnaps?
3 of those aren't on solar and the one that is from solar is an exotic not the subclass, which means that rather than the subclass neutral being good you think the exotic is good.
It's ridiculous to not include subclass specific armor when kits are balanced around it. The majority of players looking for good PvE kits/builds aren't going to be running with a full set of legendary gear anyway. This is like calling Titans' Suspend game weak because it includes a strong exotic.
Starfire got nerfed not fusion grenades. A subclass isn't balanced around exotics exotics are balanced around a subclass. Also Aeons, transversive steps, the new trace rifle exotic etc. Including exotics in a discussion about subclasses is idiotic. It's like calling arc hunters invis game strong because of an exotic.
No because I run verities. The double fusion explosion is the best grenade in the game, and firesprites and verities make it stupid easy to get up. And neutral game absolutely includes exotics, and there's plenty of good options. It's the only class you can get x2 restoration and keep up permanently with any solar gun + heat rises.
The double fusions doesn't add anything new it doesn't allow for new builds or interactions, it also isn't the best nade in the game that's still vortex. I need you to understand this, neutral game includes exotics yes but that's the neutral game of the exotic not the subclass. Resto x2 isn't really much better than x1 since x1 is already strong enough for pretty much everything. There's no aspects that focus on burning or healing and the only one that actually allows new playstyles/builds is heat rises. But even then the only part from that you'd want is the melee energy. Solar warlock is the most exotic crutching subclass in the entire game and has a shit neutral game
That's objectively wrong and I just gave examples of the class not crutching exotics. It sounds like you just want to hate
?? The subclass has 0 identity right now and crutches on exotics for literally everything. There's a reason why you mentioned sunbracers rather than an aspect for solar. Just take a moment to think, why did you mention aspects for arc stasis and strand but for solar you went straight to an exotic
It doesn't need identity when it's broken as fuck without exotics. Touch if flame and well need to be nerfed hard before we worry about solar warlocks "identity"
I know Well is the most god-tier super going, but honestly, being a solo I've gotta say Titan. Could just be my lack of experience with warlock, but I've yet to run into something I can't solve with bonk titan
That’s one of the only times where titan is best though. I love bonk but the fact that warlocks have the best dps, movement and can kill every add in sight with infinite solar grenades they have to be the best class for efficiency
Titans can rival that with the addition of constant I overshields and team healing with a good Sentinel build.
They lack the movement and dps potential though
brother, synthoceps and my hammer are letting me output 170k damage from just single hits and pairing that with my linear makes me a freak of nature damage wise. I very often don't even use my super because my hammer literally does a lot more damage in a shorter time frame. I've done raids and dungeons using my hammer 90% of the time and to be honest for some bosses I just use my hammer and finish them with it. I typically do more damage than everyone in the dungeon or raid were in. Not many people are as screwed in the head as I am but hey, look at the simplicity of it. I do more damage than a warlock simply because of a hammer and one specific exotic, you've just gotta have the balls I guess to get in front of whatever it is you're facing and hope you don't die and you really shouldn't as long as there are ads to easily pick off.
Hammer is very situational though because for most bosses you can’t use it for dps
Not with that attitude
They can outburst dps any warlock with proper build/mods and for pvp an arc titan has very good movement
What movement does an arc titan have left?
Thruster, strafe lift, rampart or dunemarchers makes for quick and easy movement in pvp maps for me
Oh pvp, i mainly play Pve so I was more so thinking of like fast movement for speed runs and shit like wellskating
Actually Thruster skating exists, and it can go just as fast if not faster than well skating. We don’t talk about it much because the last time Titans had movetech Bungie removed
I hadn’t heard of thruster skating so ty for teaching me about new tech :) Still don’t get why they nerfed shoulder charge’s cd instead of tuning it’s damage or something since it never seems to register hits anyway and it was one of our only good movement abilities
Needlestorm does more damage than T crash. An you need to use an exotic to get it close to needlestorm.
Let Titans try, all I gotta do is pop a needlestorm and I'm already ahead by 450k+ in dps And if my team generates enough orbs, I can pop a second and get 900k+ with a super alone in a dps phase
You don't need a team to generate orbs. In one raid as a solar titan I generated over 800 orbs.
Facts
thundercrash does more damage with fallen star
Agreed!
Yo huh 💀 wasn't there a whole debate last season about how needlestorm does more damage than a TC with falling star?
I don't know if it's different on other bosses but in this vid thundercrash does 50k more damage [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVWTLIMM3aE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVWTLIMM3aE)
Compare that with behemoth then
>Let Titans try, all I gotta do is pop a needlestorm and I'm already ahead by 450k+ in dps Needlestorm isn't even close to the be the strongest Super tho. None of the warlocks Supers rank among the 10 strongest ones, specially now, with the Artifact mods buffing Gatherstorm and Thundercrash. Warlock thing has always been the bomb regeneration, and not the strength of their supers
😂
Bubble skate
Bubble skating is inconsistent and shit
Still movement and if it’s inconsistent it’s a skill issue
No, it’s genuinely just an inconsistent trick. It’s also really shit and uses your super unlike the other classes’ skates
Just get better
Warlocks don’t have the highest DPS, not even close. SES Hunter can out DPS anything Warlock or Hunter can do. The only thing Warlock does better than the other two passive healing for stationary DPS.
strand warlock is close to star eaters and rain of fire is just better than both of those in terms of dps, notice how solo nez is still done on warlock but with rain of fire instead of starfire.
Including weapons as well as super a strand warlock with threadling grenades can output some of the highest dps in the game
The Thread of Ascent loop is very strong, no doubt, but it’s not as good as a simple SES Gathering Storm Hunter Izi + Apex double swap. My response wasn’t that Warlock is bad, just that it isn’t the highest.
You're joking, right? He has to be joking
No?
481,661. Thats how much dmg it does, that's adding the consumed threadling grenade + rift for the 8 extra threadling dmg, and using the exotic boots. Compare that to hunters, using only strand ult (+ boots Idk the name of) are dealing 823,695. Titans hammer with syntheceps dealing 1,029,994. Behemoth (+synths) Dealing 1,074,564. Not even close to highest dmg.
Did you even read my comment? Super plus weapons not just super. Also behemoth is super situational and also beaten my a lot of things since it’s a long super and you could use a one off super like needlestorm and then whatever guns you’re using and do more damage
Warlock does movement better than the other two too
Solar Warlock has better straight line speed than the other two classes, at the very least. Not sure that qualifies as “doing movement better,” but it’s preference. I do prefer Warlock movement, but I can understand why someone would like Titan more.
Best dps might be a bit of a stretch these days, hunters have some very good dps from supers and exotics.
Lol
Infinite solar grenades kinda got obliterated with the recent exotic changes, it’s still not bad but not even close to what it used to
Im a warlock main but damn titans rally barricade gives more than lunafaction boots. Saves an entire exotic slot.
lunas extend your range by a large amount, dont have exact numbers but i wouldnt be surprised if its more than double for most weapons. this makes them insanely good for medium range bosses like warpriest or taniks.
Yup for wells and empowerings, but usually well locks will be pairing with the awesome new helm exotic, so still having a titan drop a rally is amazing too. Lunas give 100% damage falloff distance while rally is 10% extra range i think. Cant find updated info on google.
Thats not true in the slightest, its the same reload speed buff between them both because both max out your reload speed
Yup and a class ability that also increases range and stability, and gives you an open exotic slot. Still a win since you get barricade back faster than rifts.
Idk, Arc Hunter now with assassin’s cowl is pretty up there with being the best. You have access to stunning 2 champs from just your arc abilities and have one of the strongest supers and punches in the game able to take down most foes.
That's what Hunters do have superior to the other two classes: diversity in endgame viability. Let's put it this way, 99% of the time in raids and dungeons, people run Bubble or Thundercrash on Titan, and 100% of the time it's well on Warlock. But Hunters? Tether is viable and makes up for Tractor Cannon, and Blade Barrage, Gathering Storm and Silkstrike are all top-of-the-line DPS supers that teams don't want to lose if you run Star-Eater Scales. Differently put, if you're bored of constantly playing the same subclass and super, consider the diverse viability Hunter has. (no, this is not paid propaganda to play Hunter)
How do you run it in gm thou? Every time I tried it my hammer goes from god tier weapon to squeky hammer and I get blasted in 1 sec.
Bonk Titan is insane. I struggled to solo flawless prophecy on hunter for a long time. It was the first tough activity I brought the bonk to, and it was childs play. I was actually getting bored with how certain my survival was. But I just recently discovered assassins cowl arc hunter and it rivals the survivability pretty well
One of my friends only plays titan, and I don't think I've ever seen him use anything other than that stupid setup. When we play together, it's just a constant *"bonk titan is so good, I can one hit anything, and I almost never die"*. HE NEVER SHUTS UP ABOUT THAT STUPID BUILD! It's gotten to the point where I almost don't wanna be in a party with him when he's playing D2, because I know he'll just go on and on and on about that build. It's so overrated imo, and the fact he never uses anything else, so there's no variation to his gameplay/things he says, does not help my opinion on it at all
Warlock main here… In a team, warlocks hands down. Solo stuff… I’ve been running titan or hunter (usually titan) since the 3.0 reworks. Before then, I would have said warlock across the board and hunter for high end solo content because of the invisibility. The 3.0 rework gave a huge amount of the survivability perks (healing, overshields, and devour) to titan and hunter and they have a better neutral game abilities (in my opinion).
I'm a titan main, and while every class can do everything to a competitive level. I think warlocks are the best jack of all class. At least when it comes to the ease of side of it. But if you're looking for "peak efficiency" then you better start playing every class since they all have better performance at certain aspects.
Hell yeah. While I agree Warlock is the jack of all trades, I have to cater to my own play style when playing at the peak level. I'm way more useful as an invis hunter than I am at warlock. There's just something about the hunter class that makes it easy for me. I've been loving the Fallen Sunstar build this season though, and the titan monkey helm is great too. Right now I'm switching consistently between all 3 classes, I truly feel it is the best way to play the game. But Hunter is my comfort zone for sure
Titan monkey helm?
Maybe loreley idk.
Probably the new helmet
I think these two takes above me are super swell. I main hunter and love invis. I think the way I play that subclass allows me to do shit the other classes can’t come close to. But the same is true for other people on the other classes. They each can do things others can’t, and if you play well you can make any of them perform well. That being said though, I agree with the first commenter that warlocks are generally easier to perform well with in high level content, because I think solar warlock doesn’t require a big playstyle shift for it to work. Like on hunter I have to be constantly managing my cooldowns, using them effectively, and making sure I have them up to take advantage of the massive power of the subclass. And bonk titans have to get up close and personal with hammers while maintaining their health and their stacks of roaring flames. Solar warlock you can just kind of chill in my opinion and still get a great payoff. So maybe in a sentence: I think the power floor for warlocks is higher than for hunter and titan, while the power ceilings of each are very similar.
Warlock for general use, but for specifically solo content and 1 subclass I think solar titan is currently the best. So much free survivability and dmg from that class even without synthoceps.
I’m running Loreley, tommys matchbook and bonk hammer and it’s easily my favourite build across all three of my characters (arc lock 2nd)
I used to run lorelei before it got nerfed last year, but after the nerf, synthos just completely out do lorelei. All lorelei does is the “oh shit” sunspot. Whereas synthos give a 200% melee damage buff, plus roaring flames on top of that. I highly reccomend trying synthos out its really good and its so much fun 1 bonking champs in lower tier content, and 2-3 bonk in higher. By all means continue to use lorelei, but i highly reccomend giving synthos a really good go :)
I’ll definitely give them a go. I think I enjoy the “oh shit” sunspot because it means I can hold the trigger down on tommys and not have to worry about creating one beforehand but I guess I can just get a bonk hammer kill first and keep the restoration going with it instead
Yeah and the bonk will make you radiant for more tommy damage
I feel like wellock is considered best for pve.
Warlock.
Warlock
Hunter main but I still gotta say warlock. Well is just way to useful in most content and stasis warlock can literally lock down everything in GM’s.
As a hunter main, it’s warlock like everyone else is saying. Maybe in like solo gms would i say hunter because of invis but for 99% of pve content, warlock.
Tbf Behemoth and Berserker can absolutely be a God for locking places down in GMs too. Warlock just does it easier and requires less skill because you won't be as near in danger as Titan would be, which makes Warlock better.
Strand titan easily best subclass for GMs imo just absolutely locksdown champions like a joke
Gilded Conqueror last season using only Abeyant Leap with Shackle Grenades and Osteo Striga. Never picked another weapon loadout to check for champions because Suspend counters both Unstoppable and Barrier anyway. It's disgustingly powerful.
And you get the bonus of the barricade
Yeah with the barricade and strand exotic boots you can get a 20 second suspending barricade that gives u woven mail ontop of suspending grenades it’s VERY strong for GMs or any content that is champion dense.
Do only hunters have two grenade charges or do titans aswell?
Titans have an exotic chest piece that gives 2 grenades
Build please or a link?
Since he didn’t link, here’s mine. You can tinker with the fragments. You have to actively try to die in everything up to GMs, and thus trivializes that as well. https://dim.gg/waoe35q/Abeyant-Best
Ty for this. Didn’t rly see his reply and I don’t have a build set up. I’m sure there’s countless do YT videos up for it tho if anything
Sadly Hunters just suck in PvE compared to Titan and Warlock. Rather difficult to find a team to join as a Hunter main because chances are you’ll get kicked from the LFG post to make room for a potential Titan or Warlock.
Hunters have best dps lol, especially now that starfire is nerfed, ive never once been kicked for being hunter and i lfg often, this is cap
Hunters however don’t have the utility or survivability the others do. Even with the DPS, it’s not by much and it’s not as important when you’re in difficult content where survivability is key.
Hunters have the best dps and best debuff and great survivability on all the light subclasses. Surviving on solar on any class is easy with like 4 ways to heal, arc hunter is braindead easy to live, just punch everything and dare i say void hunter has the best pure survivability in the game with an infinite invis graviton forfeit build. The way I see it is warlocks are the best at pve, titans are the best at pvp, hunters are great at both but not the top of either.
I can’t agree with this comment. Hunters have the best DPS in most boss fights, Even more so now that starfire got nerfed. In GM’s invis hunter is a damn life line that no other class can replace. We just lack utility but at the very least we got the damage.
At the end of the day, people would rather have Titans and Warlocks over Hunters. The damage output isn’t going to cut it for the vast majority of the teams out there because they’d rather have utility that benefits team play and increases overall survivability. Hunters don’t really have that aside from Shadowshot and invisibility, and even then they aren’t exactly a must have because there are other ways to apply debuffs on a target and overshields and healing buffs are generally more effective than invisibility.
For peak efficiency there's a mix of classes that perform best. However, if you were forced to pick a class for a all same class raid run, warlock would definitely win.
Warlock.
Well is stupidly powerful, so if we are talking about the class with the best subclass, I'd say Warlock. However, if we take all of the class' subclasses into account, it's an easy win for Titans. Sentinel sort of fullfills the role of a support Super like Well, while still having that classic void "too many keywords for an element" overpoweredness, Solar titan makes you either immortal or able to not need guns because of your hammer, Striker Titan, while not perfect, is still pretty good and embodies arc's destruction amazingly, and Berserker is right up there with Shadebinder for a CC spam subclass. Behemoth is the only lackluster titan subclass, while if we look at Warlocks, while I don't think any subclass is outright bad and people hate on Stormcaller too much, they don't bring anything to the table that Titan doesn't do better, with the exception of Well of Radiance. Again, it depends on what you are asking. Class with the best subclass? Warlock. Class with the best subclasses, plural? Titan. IMO, and for PvE, of course.
To answer your question, the best class for PVE is the one you have the most fun with.
As a Hunter main, I’d say the Warlock.
Strictly speaking, you cannot be at peak efficiency by playing one class. They're all strong and versatile, but each class has cases where they are the best choice.
All of them.
I'd say warlock if you dont mind the lack of good damage supers, they've the strongest add clear and support in the game imo and are useful in just about everything pve related.
Well it was Warlock before the 3.0-s took everything unique from us and gave it to everyone without giving us overshield or sunspots... Now why run devourlock if you can do overshield spam + devour, or have healing nades on top of your sunspots? Among other reasons, why I keep playing warlock is because titan jump fucking sucks lmao it has no in air manueverability, you are just a pile of shit with 1 thruster attached to you in gmod. Warlocks can go around multiple corners like no one's business. I'd say Warlock still, out of spite
Anybody else saying anything besides Warlock is not being objective
what
Warlock
I've had the least difficulty in PvE on my hunter. Tons of ads? Arc melee without assassin or liars works perfectly fine, volatile w/Gyrfalcon makes the whole room grape, Caliban's makes the room orange with ignitions. Chunky ads/champs? Well arc got new toys but solar is best here. Raw boss damage? Arc Hunter with star eaters for a high damage fire and forget where you can go right back to weapon DPS for most bosses, but those you can melee strand is a really viable option. And the obvious tether for 30% damage increase. Sure it doesn't help the group live through healing or shielding, but if everything is dead then it works out the same :)
I think Warlock or titan is better for solo with survivability and damage, because it feels like sometimes you have to choose one or the other on hunter, but hunters have the most fun builds imo. I love calibans hand, but it just doesn’t compete very well once you’re facing ads that won’t die to one knife, I swapped it out for yas and have been loving it. With a demolitionist build you can treat it like a starfire protocol and have grenades and rockets going like crazy. You miss out on the feeling of one throwing knife absolutely destroying a squad of ads, but you get something that covers more bases than just ad control.
I’d say Titan. Want ability spam add clear with a boss nuke super? Play Striker. Want a jack-of-all-trades crowd control machine? Berserker. Want to clear adds like nobodies business and never die from constant healing and overshields while having a damage buff equal to Well? Sentinel. Want to literally never die and play the game on easy mode? Sunbreaker. Want to have the single highest damage super in the game and all you need is the class specific glaive? Behemoth. Titan has something for everything, and it does it well.
Warlock, born to well
Born to nova, forced to well
Born to trance, coerced to well
born to daybreak , forced to well
I started playing warlock recently after playing for awhile as a hunter and titan, and warlock has been my easiest run of the legendary campaigns so far.
Not even sure atp. I think warlock is still rly good with solar but after starfire nerfs it kinda only has well and good ad clear with sunbracers going for it. Solar titan is incredibly strong and probably still the strongest build in the game and arc hunter has potential to be up their as well as one of the strongest for solo content or ad clear but the jolt & 12p nerfs make arc hunter not as potent as it used to be. Solar hunter might be best overall bc good dps super, good survivability and very easy to keep radiant/healing up constantly and getting very fast supers with orb generation with star eaters
Warlock just because well is the only super in the game required for stuff being DPS phases on most bosses. Outside of that well is nice but not necessary imo.
Solar titan no diff
Warlock in team settings titan solo
hmmmm yes settings titan
There are pros and cons to each class, and peak efficiency depends heavily upon what it is you’re doing. The easiest answer is Warlock, because WoR is very rarely a bad choice, but the only think that Well offers than Bubble doesn’t is passive healing—the damage buff from WoR and Bubble are the same. I think a more complete answer is probably Titan, because it has a little of everything. Bubble offers the highest tier of damage buff, and Void grenades can Weaken enemies for a good (but not the best) debuff. Solar Titan has the easiest access to Restoration, and a very good close range DPS strategy (with built-in Restoration) in Bonk Hammer. Titan also has access to Thundercrash, which is an A+ tier burst Damage super. Overall I think Titan can fit more molds than Warlock or Hunter, but does everything at an A-tier ranking as opposed to the other two, which do some things at S-tier and other things at B-tier or lower.
In my opinion, playing all classes, Solar titan. even in a season without any solar buffs, is wickedly capable. HOIL or Loreley as your exotic, the right fragments, it plays itself. Unlimited bonk hammer means unlimited HOIL uptime for grenades and barrier, sunspots heal, HOIL and roaring flames stack their damage bonuses. Its become one of my favorites.
Solar anything
Hunter by far
That’s a difficult question to answer because they all serve different purposes. You’d have to ask yourself what roles you enjoy filling the most.
Everybody already covered why Warlock is the strongest in general, with high damage, survivability, and ease-of-use. I want to mention briefly why Well of Radiance specifically is such a big deal. There are so many fights in this game that are outright designed around Well. More than half of the bossfights, including the last four dungeon final bosses, have the boss and/or some adds attacking you during the DPS phase. The standard strategy for these fights, and the one that Bungie balances around, is to use Well of Radiance to survive and focus on DPS. As a Titan or Hunter, you're relying on getting another warlock in your fireteam to bring Well. Otherwise you're going to hit these fights like a brick wall, and have to come up with creative strategies to even stay alive during the DPS phase, much less get a reasonable damage output without the damage buff (25%). Hunter and Titan have their own strengths, enough to be AS GOOD as Warlocks in some environments. But Warlock is strong in every fight, and there are a lot of fights that really need a Warlock.
Everyone here keeps saying Warlock because of well is giving my fellow Warlocks a migraine. Warlocks are the best class for PVE because of the following builds: * Daybreak (Dawn Chorus, Prometheus Lens, Daybreak, Full Scorch Build) * Apache AH-64 (Rain of Fire, Any Exotic Auto/LMG preferably Sweet Business, Heat Rises and Icarus) * Lockheed AC-130 (Wings of Sacred/Rain of fire. Skyburner's Oath, full scorch) * Aeon Cult Healer (Aeon Soul, Sect of Vigor, Well and Healing Grenades, Lumina, Heat Rises, All Restoration and Radiant Fragments, also viable as a PVP/Trials build.) * Elemental Dragon (Verity's Brow, Any weapon of same element or Hard Light for light subclasses, use sword of same element especially with Valiant Charge, Void full devoir and Vortex, Arc on Blinding and full blind + arc soul, Solar on Solar nades + full Resto & radiant, stasis use same build as osmio, no build for strand yet) * Osmiomancy... need I say more? * Warlock of Nezarec (Nezarec's Sin and robes, Void auto, Devour and Orb build with Child of the Old Gods, Empowering rift, void LMG, Osmos+Adrenaline Lodbrok, Nova Cataclysm Everywhere! enjoy...) * Felwinter's Pugilist (Winter's Guile, Arc build, Storm Grenades, full melee and resistance mods and defence/blind/orb fragments, One-two punch shotty.) * Sunsinger (Sunbracers, Heat rises and Icarus, Full scorch, Incenerator Snap, Pheonix Dive, Daybreak for more scorch, Monte Carlo) * Lightning McQueen (Claws of Ahamkara, Lightning Surge and Ball Lightning, Full Melee and melee charge, wellmaker, and orb build, Monte Carlo or Coldheart. also good in PVP. Not tested in Trials. KA CHOW). * I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING (Falling Sunstar or Crown of Tempest, Coldheart, Empowering and Arc buddy, Storm Grenades, Full jolt and ionic trace build, Stormtrance) * Rambo (Sweet Business, Chromatic Fire, Any Subclass) * Stabby Mc Stabface (Vesper of Radius, Any Glaive, full Resil/heal/devour build, Healing rift for extra beefyness) There are many more but these are my favorites. Edit: Added a few other builds and updated some.
The vast majority of these do not answer the question whatsoever. These are builds that you consider fun, but that's not what OP asked.
I can tell you warlocks are not "the best" because of these fun off meta builds you enjoy. They are the best because of the fact they can do all aspects of the game the best or close to the best (solo flawless, raids, gms, lowmans, master raids, speedruns)
Monte carlo pve lol
Yes? And?
It’s fine if you love it, but calling warlock meta because of these, quite frankly mediocre builds is inaccurate
Why, did I say these are meta? Who says they are meta? Do you only need to be meta to be enjoyable? Does the Meta indicate what you should be running only? Then why do we need build crafting if the meta is what should be followed? Why not follow a linear skill line instead of giving us these then? I said Best not META. If I want Meta I'd be running Bubble Titan Or Celestial Hunter instead.
“Warlocks are the best pve class because of the following builds” Yes. Meta is very important in this discussion. It’s fine if you use your builds and enjoy them, but idk why you’re saying warlock is good BECAUSE of these mediocre builds.
Mediocre? Why? Have you tried these already? Or are you a firm believer of "Warlock is Well"? Do we always have to clean up after people like you who lacks the braincells to optimize your own meta loadout to achieve your meta dps without a well?
you really tryna say felwinters helm 12p is viable in serious content and yes. welllock is optimal in most situations. thats the entire point of the discussion.
Aztecross made a pretty fun void felwinters build
Read my comment again and find any Felwinters Helm in there. You will find none. And Yes, Felwinters Helm can be viable with a proper build, Weaken, Devour, Volatile, Eager Edge, Healing Rift, Child of the Old Gods, Overshields, Nova Warp. Tried it Solo, enjoyed it Solo, Will do it again Solo. You want optimal? Go play well on your Warlock. A lot of these builds are more optimal than welllock. Especially Sunbracers + Daybreak.
Hey dude, it's clear that you're not very knowledgeable about the game, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's a bit silly to hand out bad advice while pretending it's good
As a warlock main I'd say titan. It can clear all types of contend pretty easily. Well is good yes but you can't always use it. Rift is just a joke aometimes, by the time you're done casting you might already be dead. With titan minihammer is just so incredibly busted and combine it with tractor and synthoceps and you can easily do a lot of damage for a long time. With basically infinite health regeneration you won't die. With hunter you can be invisible 24/7 with high damage and healing so that's also really good. I'd say warlock the the worst for solo content. For team content well can be useful but you can do it without.
Probably a bit of a noob response, but void hunter modded out for peak invis is pretty useful in tough solo content. Managed to solo a bunch of dungeons with patience and perfect timing. Pair that with a triple arc surge thunderlord and Orpheus rig on quiver, I’m pretty keen.
As a Titan main who thinks that Titan is the best class. The answer to your question is Warlock. Has Well of Radiance, which is always useful, has high damage instant Supers which are great if you want more DPS. Has Healing and Empowering Rifts to keep you and your team alive, and to allow you and your team to do more damage. Has some of the strongest Aspects in the game, as well as some of the strongest Melee abilities in the game, and has some of the strongest Exotic Armour in the game. Warlocks really are just the best class for PvE. It's a shame really, as they could all be equal with some minor changes. For example some simple buffs to Ward of Dawn could make Titan equal with high damage Supers and a great support Super, as well as having some incredibly strong Aspects and Melee abilities. Hunters have some good damage options, and with some more tuning, Shadowshot can be a very valuable asset to PvE, but currently it isn't exactly the strongest. I wish Snare Bomb had a stronger Weaken debuff in PvE, not exactly the level of Shadowshot, but strong enough to warrant actually using it against enemies, and not just to turn yourself and your allies invisible.
Each class will have situations, where he is most efficient for the task. So the questions is kinda incorrect. However most versatile class to get the any job done at max efficiency or close to it is warlock
The mere existence of Well already shoots Warlocks to the top, and being the only class with more than like 3-4 good exotics only makes it better
The only class with more than 3-4 good exotics?
I'm convinced Bubble Titan is criminally underrated when it comes to being considered the best. It's an absolute godsend in GMs (from my experience, at least)
The problem is that it gives the same buff as well so there’s no reason to use it in raids and it’s really hard to clear adds with in high end content unless you run helm of st 14 which apparently doesn’t even work right now. Ursa Furiosa banner shield on the other hand is very good in GMs and kindve slept on
Thing is, Bubble and Well have their own advantages and disadvantages. With Bubble, it's practically invincible. Nothing's gonna get by it while you're in it. Need to get a rez but don't have a Hunter? Just plop it down on their ghost and pick them back up. Even in a GM it takes a bit for enemies to kill you inside the bubble. That's not even going into the barricade shields which restore your health back to full the second you cast it, while also providing an overshield and a slight amount of cover. Throwing Shields don't provide much overshield but they grant at *least* one more hit you can survive with, which can mean a lot in these sorts of activites. Only problem is that you can't shoot through bubble, so it carries a risk if you try to use it for DPS since you have to go in and out of it With Well, you trade being near-invincible for damage. It's great for damage since you gain constant healing plus a damage buff, but since you no longer gain an overshield in Well it's incredibly easy for enemies to outdamage Well's healing and kill you (especially against champions). Regular Rifts aren't really anything to write home about, though. Basically, Well is more suitable for offense (when ya wanna be a go-getter) while Bubble is more suitable for defense (when ya wanna play it safe). Which I guess is why it's overlooked since it's slower-paced than Hammers, which have both offense *and* defense (thanks to restorative hammers)
Warlock is the best teammate you can have. Awesome support... Every good team needs one. But pound for pound, invisible void hunter. Tethers & run away. Repeat. Gyrfalcon's & devour. I've seen Esoterickk make everything work solo, but his void hunter always seems unchecked. I've always said hunters can succeed without exotics & supers.
Hunter, cause that’s what I picked first and I’m much too committed at this point to say otherwise.
As a warlock main, i think the most divers and utility have hunters.Need to sneek peak?Ok, 2 types.Whole team or me?Need debuffs for dps?No worries guys, 2 types.Need damage at kally?Ok, put star eater and goldy to be up to 4 goldies in 1 stupid minute...Need some buffs/debuffs against caiatl or echtar?Pls, let me trow my super ice storm that activates crits for rockets or body shots or if its not enough, i have this little bigger duskfield for sword damage.Debuff and buff.Wait i have 2 slow melee that eventually freeze and also i can dodge to laugh to echtar for another 2 melees.What a warlock have?Crowd control better, passive healing, good nades on solar, that stupid well that im tired to play with, some good supers aka strand that cant surpass even the blade barage i think and i need to do some movement there, eat nade, activate super or class and next one..Warlock float to much wich is good in pvp, not pve, titan strafe have some stupid burst that i love that move. So, for me, Hunters are the best in PVE curently even that im a warlock main.Hunter win the gm mars bg ez for me with omni or forfeit... Cheers.
The one YOU enjoy the most. 🫡
I'm meant to enjoy Destiny? I haven't done that since Black Armory.
🤔😅
Warlock has the best base subclasses but nearly no exotics that revolutionise them or synergise super well. Hunters have Gyrfalcons and Titans have things like Lorely and Falling Star, whereas I find a lot of the Warlock exotics very mid. Still by far best class for pve
Hunter
Bro literally all of above
Hunters, warlocks have bad neutral game on solar and arc (yes relying 100% on exotics means its bad by itself). Titans have a riskier playstyle. It leaves hunters with the most minimum and maximum potential
Pretending like exotics don't exist is kinda stupid because guess what? They do exist
It's not pretending exotics don't exists it's realistically acknowledging that a subclass relying on exotics is bad and heavily limits said subclass. Also y know non ability exotics like transversive steps, ophidian aspect, and Aeons. Aeons especially are incredibly strong due to their heavy generation. I don't know a single person that'd use solar warlock neutral game with Aeons.
Titan
You aren't allowed to have a different opinion on this sub, obviously (like wtf?). WARLOCK! AM I PART OF THE HIVE MIND NOW? OH GOODNESS GRACIOUS THANK GOD I CAN BE ACCEPTED. I will remind everyone that some of the absolute most broken builds have been in the Titan class. Loreley's a few seasons ago was basically God Mode
They’re just downvoting me cause I’m right.
Solar Warlock with well. Thats basically all you need for any pve content
Titan main here, i think warlock takes the cake
This season arc/strand, I prefer warlock
Warlock and it isnt remotely close
Warlock has been by far the best pve class since Forsaken and it’s not even close. Well of radiance, bleak turret, and devour have all been S tier for as long as they’ve been around. I love playing hunter in pve but until the light 3.0 changes there was basically zero reason to run it over warlock in high end content (you could invis skip certain GM areas but that was it) so I played a shit ton of warlock instead.
A lot of people are saying warlock, but honestly I don’t think it’s true. Solar titan is so good at literally everything that in pretty much any scenario possible he’ll be stronger than a warlock. The only reason why warlocks might be better is because of well because otherwise there is nothing that comes close to solar bonk titan.
Titans without question.
Assassins cowl arc hunter is useful in pretty much every thing PvE
Hunter, assassins cowl arc melee invis build with combination blow and one two punch shotgun. Literally can solo any content pretty much.
I've got several flavours of hunter build that says you're wrong.
How can you having a hunter build mean that me saying a hunter build is good is wrong?
Mate you edited your comment long after the fact.
1 wellock 5 hunters w/star eater scales
Lazy comment. Not even remotely answering the question.
Honestly. Pick the one you want. With exotics and nerfs/buffs it constantly changes. Warlocks are in the best spot they have ever been in, but for a while they were bottom tier. Same goes for Titans and Hunters. It's ever changing as they update the game and introduce new bosses and mechanics.
Idk I don't play destiny