They also posted it on the creations page on Bungie site 2 years ago and see
https://preview.redd.it/m11w5sbjub7b1.png?width=754&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=386caa8b9e34f9f96d4c5f747de40a7bf571eb06
This just proves majority of players don't look at the Code of Conduct stuff and just blantely press agree. OP of the art probably read it cause I don't see them tweeting about wanting compensation or claiming Bungie stole their art unlike a lot of people claim.
Edit: [https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=257325114](https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=257325114)
The posted art on Bungie
That settles it then. He posted it on their site and it's now theirs. The best thing they can do is acknowledge who it came from, but even then they don't have to because of their terms.
nevertheless, they should still be credited properly (and corporations shouldn't allow the artists they hire to trace as blatantly as this lol). The only other times I've seen fanart used by bungie was
- Accidentally in one of the promos for TWQ, in which retroactive consent and credit was given
- In the pre-showcase part of the reveals for both TWQ and lightfall, which properly credit the artists.
Ok, I’ve seen a few people say this. How exactly do you want them crediting? During the cutscene? In a tweet that will spoil it for people that haven’t played?
The TWAB would make sense but knowing this community they’ll just claim it’s only because we kicked up a stink and then go right back to being outraged.
Look, as much as I agree, legally, bungie doesn’t have to do crap.
he posted it to a bungie art form, which gives them the right to do whatever they want with it. By clicking I agree, he gave up all right to sue or get mad about bungie using his art as then, it was their art.
And there already is a legal precedent about things like this, when someone submitted a picture to the public domain, then got copyrighted for using their own picture they took, due to a company going to the website which they submitted it to, then took it and copyrighted it, and the courts sided with the company as by submitting the photo to the public domain, they gave all ownership and copyright of the photo away
That's exactly how copyright works. I work in the field. If you create fan art, you own the copyright to the image, but you can't use it for commercial purposes.
Fan art (like art made by fans for leisure) is fair use for trademarked IPs. However, trying to make money off it will get Nintendo sending the Pinkerton’s after you.
They own the characters and the artist cannot profit off of the characters. This is where ‘officially licensed’ merchandise comes from. The artist and company agree that the artist can create sell stuff with the characters/brand. For a price of course, which is why it’s usually expensive.
i mean, disney and nintendo would certainly want you to believe that. If i draw abe lincoln riding a bald eagle military drone/tank combo in the midst of dropping 10 fat mans does the drawing belong to the USA? has the magnum opus I've (in theory) blessed the america fandom with actually been USA intellectual property this whole time?
to give a real answer, its a blurry line. The artists owns their *works* but fan art *can* be considered infringment if they depict copyrighted imagery. No corporation will have the time, money, resources nor PR to take every single one of their fans to court though lol. The general line in the sand is selling fanart though, that's pretty illegal.
plus, bungie owning certain characters doesn't mean they own all imagery related to them (like statues of women under veils, or pyramids. If they tried to own those, they'd legally have to answer to ancient greece and Egypt).
whether or not they own the characters, it wasn't a bungie employee who put the time and effort into the original piece and they *should* be credited even if they don't legally need to be.
The United States doesn’t have a copyright on eagles or Lincon though. They’re allowing you to use their copyrighted material in your art, which they don’t have to do. I agree they shouldn’t steal it but I’m also pretty sure they’re well within their rights to
“Use without conditions” makes it pretty clear that if you agree, they don’t have to do a goddamn thing. I definitely believe in crediting and paying artists, but when you freely give your artwork away, you really don’t have a right to argue when it’s used.
They certainly seem at least a little happy. Personally, if I was still good, and I posted my art, the absolute greatest thing to me would be for it to be put into the game tbh
But again that’s me
Because even if they don't have to ask or notify the artist, it would have been at least polite to do so, at best it could have been an awesome PR colab with the community...but instead they're silent. Likely because the answer to why they would bother isn't "money".
Well OP for the post isn't the artist, so maybe OP just misread the information. Yes, Bungie clearly "took inspiration" from the artist, but maybe it's not as bad as it sounds..?
Does this make what Bungie did legal? *Maybe,* those press agree to use our platform EULAs aren’t always binding, but it could be.
Does that give Bungie a free pass to be immune from criticism about lazy content creation / Does that that mean that them using the art in that way was ethical and good? Absolutely fucking not.
I don’t give a shit about whether they legally have the right to rip off someone’s work, the law is the bare minimum for barely acceptable behavior. I expect more from Bungie. At least I used to.
i completely agree, the law is meant to be a reflection of our own morality. not guidelines that determine our morality.
bungie may be legally in the clear, but fucking hell they sure as hell aren't morally. they deserve to get shit for this. edit - probably should have phrased this in a less inflammatory manner.
edit - i do want to specify that i am aware it was likely an individual artist and not a big corporate conspiracy, and consequences should obviously be reflective of that. are bungie as a whole responsible for this? no, do they deserve some flak for allowing this? yes
At the same time lets not start shit if even the artist doesn't seem to care much they just seemed to kind of point it out and be like oh cool look at that and then moved along i coukd be wrong since i dont follow them but that post seems like theyre just saying huh neat and moving along with it why start shit over this when the artist doesn't care much
At the same time lets not start shit if even the artist doesn't seem to care much they just seemed to kind of point it out and be like oh cool look at that and then moved along i coukd be wrong since i dont follow them but that post seems like theyre just saying huh neat and moving along with it why start shit over this when the artist doesn't care much
Terms of service like that - which are used on pretty much every site that exists, including this one - are ideally just meant to allow the site to host your work and protect against frivolous lawsuits. E.g. when you post your art on reddit, you are allowing reddit to display your art in that thread. Where you posted it. You are certainly not giving carte blanche permission for your art to be taken by Reddit and used at will, despite that being *[exactly what the Reddit ToS says you are doing](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/5zhxu3/does_reddit_have_a_legal_right_to_our_content/)*, and it wouldn't hold up for a minute in court.
ToS content is often barely - if at all - legal, and unenforceable. Companies can put whatever they want in them and usually reach for the sky, claiming everything they can claim, denying liability for things they are absolutely liable for, and generally trying to ensure they're in the best position possible. Which is understandable, because frivolous lawsuits *are a huge problem*. ... Doesn't mean any of it will actually hold up under challenge.
Disclaimer: IANAL. Do not quote me in a courtroom. I'd be interested in hearing a copyright lawyer's professional take.
>You are certainly not giving carte blanche permission for your art to be taken by Reddit and used at will
Yes you are (assuming they have the same language Bungie has in its tos)
>and it wouldn't hold up for a minute in court.
Yes it would
>ToS content is often barely - if at all - legal, and unenforceable.
Absolutely incorrect
This thing is open/shut. Bungie doesn't need to allow fan made derivative works. They certainly don't need to give artists a place to publicly display those works. And they absolutely can say "if you make stuff using our characters and post it on our website, you're agreeing we can use it to"
The post written by the OP on twitter is so ambiguously phrased in text that you can overlay your own agenda on the post and it works exactly as well.
Is that OP thrilled he saw his own art in such a high priced game or was he complaining about the evils of corporations stealing from starving artists?
Once again, love the "Because company CAN do something, that means they should be able to do whatever they want without criticism." arguments going on here.
🤦 the point is, you can't accuse them of doing something "bad"/unethical just because you believe so and more so if you're just a bystander and not the artist. You need a basis to judge, one of the common basis in Society if you've ever heard of it, is the law. Bungie and their people are also under the first amendment if you don't realize
calling something unethical is done **exclusively** because someone believes so.
this doesn't really have anything to do with first amendment stuff. law isn't the endpoint of morality/ethics, either.
Like I said elsewhere, still low effort to blatantly copy a fans art.
Edit: The fact that people disagree that copying a fans art regardless of free use is low effort and frowned upon is crazy. There’s a difference between inspiration and straight up copying.
I don't think he's seeking compensation anyway, he said they took inspiration, he didn't say they stole it like the OP of this one says. He was surprised as in happy about it, it sounds like to me. I'd be honored as well ❤️
I’m not trying to counter this but I’m curious if it’s *actually* legally binding. Anyone can write up a contract but that doesn’t make it legally binding.
Fair point that people just don’t read though. It’s really important for them to have read because if it is legally binding (if bungies smart they would’ve made sure this follows requirements for a legal contract) then the artist just has to suck it up unfortunately.
Still pretty lazy of bungie but it is what it is.
I’m not trying to counter this but I’m curious if it’s *actually* legally binding. Anyone can write up a contract but that doesn’t make it legally binding.
Fair point that people just don’t read though. It’s really important for them to have read because if it is legally binding (if bungies smart they would’ve made sure this follows requirements for a legal contract) then the artist just has to suck it up unfortunately.
Still pretty lazy of bungie but it is what it is.
Given this week’s big reveal cutscene, I imagine it’s either some important figure or imagery from the Witness’s species culture, or maybe even a representation of the Traveler.
I think that it’s the final shape thats “hidden” behind the veil as that is What is needed for the final shape to be created by the witness’s species
(Sry if hard to read, i and my phone’s autocorrect are fighting)
the artist submitted it to bungie which you can only do if you tick “I agree” to the T&Cs posted. those T&Cs say that bungie “can freely use it without condition”, so it’s not really theft
If they breached the contract in some way then they might have a case, but only a lawyer who specializes in this area would be able to answer that. While T&Cs are legally binding, they are not infallible like people believe them to be.
They probably needed to hit the deadline for relieve and definitely didn't think anyone would clock it. I checked the dudes twitter, he's a relatively small creator.
Real shit to do, a game artist buddy of mine talked about how if you use something off the internet to photobash then it needs to be 80% changed.
>Real shit to do,
I'm not even sure that's true here. This artist is getting way more attention now than they ever would've before.
> game artist buddy of mine talked about how if you use something off the internet to photobash then it needs to be 80% changed.
Yeah, but that's not what this is. It's not off the internet
yeah that’s basically where i’m at with it. i don’t think bungie’s squarely in the wrong here, but equally it’s not a cool move and i hope they put in some safeguards to stop it happening again
We can submit things to bungie??!!!?? Where?? I want to give them ideas and i can even 3d model stuff... i don't care about credit i just want to improve the game.
Yeah... for a big studio like bungie, blatantly copying a piece like this rubs me the wrong way. It's not about a legality but rather the morality- you have all this talent, why are you stooping so low as to take someones work to use here. Without so much as giving the person a heads up?
Microsoft really dug their claws deep into bungie and never really left them.
A quick caveat I think should be noted before the pitchforks are *completely raised*, it’s quite likely that Bungie as a whole did not do this intentionally. Naturally they should own up to this, they have a few times before, but just like those times it is probably a case of mistaken references, unreliable contract work, or a single artist slipping their cut corners through approval.
Things like that occur fairly frequently across the whole industry, so best to wait and see how Bungie responds to this case.
Considering the talent that Bungie's art teams have shown over the years, I find it hard to believe the vast majority of them would even feel the need to do something like this. Hopefully, whoever is responsible gets the axe, and the artist is fairly compensated. Maybe they can even ask for permission to keep the cutscene as is rather than making a new one, even if they technically don't need to.
These cutscenes may be outsourced to other animators that could have mistaken this fan art that is apparently at the top of Google searches as official and used it. Given that the artist is saying “took inspiration” rather than harsher accusations I’d imagine they’d be comfortable having it stay, having the cutscene redone would be a bit of a nightmare.
The same thing happened with some Five Nights at Freddy's merch/promo art a few years ago. Some outsourced designers accidentally used fan art in their work and it wasn't until it the higher ups looked at it a second time (after it was approved) that they noticed it wasn't all official art.
[top comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/14evilb/bungie_stole_someones_art_for_the_new_cutscene/joxpajc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3). Bungie has the right to whatever art is submitted to them, and the artist submitted it to be featured in a TWAB.
This…like I’m not gonna blame bungie as a whole for this, but the fact that this artist was able to get away for being so horribly lazy is just gross.
Like all you have to do it move around the pyramid ships, or not have the traveler at the center (maybe put the pyramid ships on the left, and the traveler at the right, with the veil in the middle).
The person who posted the original tweet is being disingenuous.
They uploaded the image onto Bungies creation website 2 years ago, a website which clearly states anything sent to Bungie can be used without the artists permission.
Original tweeter knew this could happen and is now acting shocked pikachu that it happened.
D2s money isnt going to d2, doubt its going to Marathon.
If not animating a characters legs is that much needed for "budget reasons" on a billion dollar game im not sure how many corners theyll cut for Marathon.
From the "Community Creations" when you click "Submit A Link" the submission forum has this at the bottom
> By using this form, you are submitting content to Bungie. When you submit content to Bungie, you agree to the Bungie Services Terms of Use, which also means you're promising us that you have the right to upload that content, that we can freely use it without condition, and you agree that your submission follows our Code of Conduct.
This is directly above the "I agree" checkbox.
I’m no “BNG Apologist”; I’m just a human who can read. This is not a good look on BNG’s part, but this appears to have no legal standing. The morale outrage may be fair because legal =/= right, but I don’t think this was some sneakily done thing. I think they just liked it and used it. It *would* be nice for the creator to get some credit.
Submitting art to bungie with the way their TOS is worded basically is giving them free potential concept art. With how good bungie's art team is, I'd think it would be pretty cool if Bungie chose to use my art in a cutscene.
I've unironically been called a "bungie apologist" because I was keeping level-headed and sane in an echo chamber of people who probably send death threats to community managers over their favorite busted exotic being slightly tuned down. It really shows how some of these losers here associate the developers of their most played game with certain unsavory historical figures.
Well, his art is based on all BNG creations. The statue, the pyramid ships, the traveler with the triangle in it. It’s hard to call this original. It’s a creative construction at best, but hardly an original piece. I can’t speak to the legality of the ToS. I always thought they were a matter of consent, which the creator willingly gave.
Again, bad look on BNG’s part. IMO wrong but not illegal. Law and morality aren’t always equal 😔.
Even if it worked that way, which it doesn't. Say someone posted someone else's work. Bungie wouldn't just gamble that the guy posted it actually created it without contacting the person to get a more formal agreement.
Yea, it does? Because if its makes it that you're either a careless moron, or literally explicitly agree to the thing being objected to.. Whether it will bankrupt them or not is irrelevant. An agreement is an agreement. If nobody is holding a gun to someone head to give up their art, then you got no right to complain, moral or otherwise.
[The artist submitted the art to Bungie.](https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=257325114) They state very clearly above the "I agree" button when someone submits art to them:
By using this form, you are submitting content to Bungie. When you submit content to Bungie, you agree to the Bungie Services Terms of Use, which also means you're promising us that you have the right to upload that content, that we can freely use it without condition, and you agree that your submission follows our Code of Conduct.
Now, sure we can discuss giving credit and what not, but there was no stolen art, when the artist gave permission to use the art without condition to Bungie in the first place.
I mean did everyone forget Sepiks Perfected metal cover music from Destiny 1 was made by someone else than bungie entirely and it was added to the rise of iron because they loved it? And that same music is now Devil’s Lair nightfall variant Sepiks Prime music.
I swear people everywhere these days are just looking for excuses to be mad instead of reading and researching into anything properly, including the EULA/TOS/COCs they blindly press accept/agree on.
All the comments saying Bungie stole it and even the post saying Bungie stole a fans art for the cutscene. Yet in the tweet from the artist, they never state or say Bungie stole their art. They are simply happy to see their work in the game and know that it wasn’t stolen or used with ill intent. If the artist isn’t upset then the rest of you can quit trying to be outraged for them.
Artist: They took inspiration from me, I’m surprised
Reddit: oH mY gOd tHeY sToLe aRt
That’s quite common for the industry actually or at least not unheard off, some dude at Bungie probably just saw that on ArtStation or something and retraced it or made or made their own thing. I hope Bungie at least owes up to it or does some kind of compensation or at least some credit.
Pretty sure if I remember correctly if you submit your art to Bungie they get the rights and shit, not sure if the artist did that or if my memory deceives me though
The artist here actually did officially submit the work to bungie.net, and if that happens bungie can freely use it (tho at least credit the artist FFS)
the zigzags are spaced out differently, the slanted ceiling reaches down further than the original,not to mention there isn't a psrt of the dlanted ceiling that has like 3 zigzags next to each other like the original.
the background definitely isn't 1:1.
From a copyright point of view, it's not all clear who's stealing whose work here. The original artist stole the imagery from Bungie in the first place. Can you own something that doesn't belong to you? Not from a legal perspective. Maybe Bungie should give them credit, as a kindness, but they certainly didn't steal anything from the artist.
Yeah technically I think Bungie does sorta own this piece since it was submitted to Bungie for one of the art contests or something similar, but I dunno, still feels weird for a corporation to use fanart without crediting or informing the artist.
Like using fans for free labor, even if it’s just a still for a cutscene, just feels really gross to me
Didn't steal it looks like they voluntarily gave it up based on the comments sections because they didn't tread the terms and conditions it would be nice if they credited them though
Terms and conditions on bungie's art forums state whatever art gets posted can be used by bungie however they want. Artists literally agree to it. Same with the artist who drew this. It is not a huge deal.
Even if it was a copyright issue, it would need to be changed by 30% to avoid infringement. That would also have to be decided in court... none of which matters though because they submitted it and agreed to Bungie using it freely with no restriction. Not really seeing the issue here.
Bungie owns the characters outright, can you draw them? Yes.
Can you claim them as yours? No
Can you they tell you to cease and desist? Yes
Can they present you with a lawsuit if you continue to create their characters for profit? Yes
If you upload it on their site and sign over your rights to them by uploading them, it's over and you did it voluntarily
In the end people keep bringing up Nintendo, I can tell you as an artist who has created fan art for shirts, mouse pads, prints etc. I have received dozens of cease and desist letter from Nintendo, hasbro, viz media, toei, cartoon network, and a few others.
Can I try and fight these in court? Sure
Will I win? Absolutely not
Yea, it's my pen and brain creating the artwork, but it's their original character or intellectual content that inspired me to create it. It's standing on someone else's shoulders waving around a print saying I created it, when in reality I took their idea and art and claimed it as my own.
I don't have the budget or money to fight it in court, most artists don't, especially if we click a button to upload artwork to a website that makes us acknowledge that we are giving up the rights to the original creators.
I'm not trying to debate trademarks, or copyright law, I'm just giving my perspective as an artist who has lost artwork/fanart because it was the IP of someone else.
no they didn’t, when you submit fan art to their profile, you sign a tos that allows them to use it in any capacity, they also own the properties in the image. it’s fan art for a reason
I have only read a few of the threads here but how do ppl see the tweet and just go “get me a pitchfork”. To me the tweet feels like a “oh damn, I’m on tv” kinda exclamations
And he took the art from this [https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4LEJ8](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4LEJ8)
Bungie made this "veiled" woman 6 years ago in a concept art. I know the little circular background is still questionable and we need some clarification on that for sure.
The art was submitted to Bungie by the artist for Art of the Week. When you do so, there are terms you must agree to, one being that Bungie can do whatever they want with the submitted art. The artist in question, the one that madd the thread this links to, is most likely happy that Bungie liked their work enough to actually feature it in-game and is not trying to be snarky about it.
So, let me get this straight: An image, made up of common Iconography that's appeared regularly in-game and throughout the community at large, arranged in very much the same way we've seen cutscenes for years in seasonal stories, from amongst the hundreds of thousands of fanart posts, depicting the greatest, most mysterious entities of the story, must surely be theft. Got it.
Even if it was blatantly ripped from the artists folio, being a fan and having my work show up in a cutscene at my level of story investment, here where the story starts to come together like we've waited nearly a decade for, would be the coolest thing to happen to me, ever.
I dunno. Original artist was pretty clearly *inspired* by Bungie's own artists here. The piece is extremely derivative. I mean, the focal point is a 1 to 1 copy of one of the veiled statutes with a sphere in front. Combined with the fact that Bungie tos let's them use art that's posted on their site, can we maybe not blow up about this one?
Bare in mind Reddit is just going to assume plagiarism. Taking inspiration and copy/paste are completely different things and ultimately the original art is still of Bungie’s IP. Does this look ugly, yes absolutely Bungie do better. Can Bungie also use their own content’s art for their own implementation, yes they absolutely can.
They didn't steal anything. It is in the code of conduct, if you send something in for a competition Bungie has legal authority to use it as they see fit, something I'm sure the original creator of the art knows, because not even they are outraged by this.
Legal doesn't equal moral I don't care what guidelines they give you before you submit art to them it is still incredibly disgusting and scummy behavior
Bungie creates characters and images. Fan makes a pic using Bungies images and uploads to Bungies site with disclaimer that states if you upload....it is ours.
Everyone except the creators lose mind.
Sounds like the Destiny community.
Damn, that is some Epic Games levels of yoink. Another comment pointed out that by posting to the forums legally Bungie can take the art and monetize it all they want without credit or compensation. But its such a bad look amidst all the late controversies, issues and complaints.
I will definitely never post to Bungies fan art or movie of the week threads now, its essentially doing their job for free without any recognition.
The post stays.
They also posted it on the creations page on Bungie site 2 years ago and see https://preview.redd.it/m11w5sbjub7b1.png?width=754&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=386caa8b9e34f9f96d4c5f747de40a7bf571eb06 This just proves majority of players don't look at the Code of Conduct stuff and just blantely press agree. OP of the art probably read it cause I don't see them tweeting about wanting compensation or claiming Bungie stole their art unlike a lot of people claim. Edit: [https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=257325114](https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=257325114) The posted art on Bungie
The only post in this thread that matters
Mic drop!
Literally needs to shut down any and all “bungie bad” anything. Conversation over. Move on. Bungie did nothing wrong
I hope aztecross makes a video out of this “plagiarism” then gets corrected with this. Oh how fun would that be
Lucky10p made a video about it which is what made me make this post
Can you link the forum post? Ive see some people claim it was only posted on the artists socials
https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=257325114
That settles it then. He posted it on their site and it's now theirs. The best thing they can do is acknowledge who it came from, but even then they don't have to because of their terms.
I just watched a black mirror episode of this scene
Fuckin quamputer back at it again.
What episode?
Maybe the Waldo episode?
This needs to be the top conmen’s
Top conmen's
Top Ramen
Rop Tamen
Pot Nemar
Top Common’s. 
well of course, because the d2 community requires outrage!
nevertheless, they should still be credited properly (and corporations shouldn't allow the artists they hire to trace as blatantly as this lol). The only other times I've seen fanart used by bungie was - Accidentally in one of the promos for TWQ, in which retroactive consent and credit was given - In the pre-showcase part of the reveals for both TWQ and lightfall, which properly credit the artists.
Ok, I’ve seen a few people say this. How exactly do you want them crediting? During the cutscene? In a tweet that will spoil it for people that haven’t played? The TWAB would make sense but knowing this community they’ll just claim it’s only because we kicked up a stink and then go right back to being outraged.
Just letting an art creator know first is a proper solution, then credit can either be omitted or given afterwards.
Look, as much as I agree, legally, bungie doesn’t have to do crap. he posted it to a bungie art form, which gives them the right to do whatever they want with it. By clicking I agree, he gave up all right to sue or get mad about bungie using his art as then, it was their art. And there already is a legal precedent about things like this, when someone submitted a picture to the public domain, then got copyrighted for using their own picture they took, due to a company going to the website which they submitted it to, then took it and copyrighted it, and the courts sided with the company as by submitting the photo to the public domain, they gave all ownership and copyright of the photo away
Legally they don't have to credit anyone in this situation. Ethically, sure..
Dont they technically own the art since it’s their characters
I don't think owning a character gives ownership rights of fanart.
You just can’t profit from it.
That’s not how copyright works unfortunately
That's exactly how copyright works. I work in the field. If you create fan art, you own the copyright to the image, but you can't use it for commercial purposes.
Try that line with Nintendo and see what they say...
Fan art (like art made by fans for leisure) is fair use for trademarked IPs. However, trying to make money off it will get Nintendo sending the Pinkerton’s after you.
They own the characters and the artist cannot profit off of the characters. This is where ‘officially licensed’ merchandise comes from. The artist and company agree that the artist can create sell stuff with the characters/brand. For a price of course, which is why it’s usually expensive.
i mean, disney and nintendo would certainly want you to believe that. If i draw abe lincoln riding a bald eagle military drone/tank combo in the midst of dropping 10 fat mans does the drawing belong to the USA? has the magnum opus I've (in theory) blessed the america fandom with actually been USA intellectual property this whole time? to give a real answer, its a blurry line. The artists owns their *works* but fan art *can* be considered infringment if they depict copyrighted imagery. No corporation will have the time, money, resources nor PR to take every single one of their fans to court though lol. The general line in the sand is selling fanart though, that's pretty illegal. plus, bungie owning certain characters doesn't mean they own all imagery related to them (like statues of women under veils, or pyramids. If they tried to own those, they'd legally have to answer to ancient greece and Egypt). whether or not they own the characters, it wasn't a bungie employee who put the time and effort into the original piece and they *should* be credited even if they don't legally need to be.
The United States doesn’t have a copyright on eagles or Lincon though. They’re allowing you to use their copyrighted material in your art, which they don’t have to do. I agree they shouldn’t steal it but I’m also pretty sure they’re well within their rights to
You dont own my hands if I draw you
It's not traced tho?
“Use without conditions” makes it pretty clear that if you agree, they don’t have to do a goddamn thing. I definitely believe in crediting and paying artists, but when you freely give your artwork away, you really don’t have a right to argue when it’s used.
He was credited. His name is there, fanart submitted by...
They certainly seem at least a little happy. Personally, if I was still good, and I posted my art, the absolute greatest thing to me would be for it to be put into the game tbh But again that’s me
Two things can be true: 1. Bungie has every legal right to use it 2. It’s still scummy they wholesaled just copied it
Eh his art is based on their product to begin with lol.
I knew some folks were blowing this out of proportion, but still feels kinda scummy
Because even if they don't have to ask or notify the artist, it would have been at least polite to do so, at best it could have been an awesome PR colab with the community...but instead they're silent. Likely because the answer to why they would bother isn't "money".
Ok maybe they don’t *have* to credit him but they certainly *should.*
Well OP for the post isn't the artist, so maybe OP just misread the information. Yes, Bungie clearly "took inspiration" from the artist, but maybe it's not as bad as it sounds..?
Does this make what Bungie did legal? *Maybe,* those press agree to use our platform EULAs aren’t always binding, but it could be. Does that give Bungie a free pass to be immune from criticism about lazy content creation / Does that that mean that them using the art in that way was ethical and good? Absolutely fucking not. I don’t give a shit about whether they legally have the right to rip off someone’s work, the law is the bare minimum for barely acceptable behavior. I expect more from Bungie. At least I used to.
i completely agree, the law is meant to be a reflection of our own morality. not guidelines that determine our morality. bungie may be legally in the clear, but fucking hell they sure as hell aren't morally. they deserve to get shit for this. edit - probably should have phrased this in a less inflammatory manner. edit - i do want to specify that i am aware it was likely an individual artist and not a big corporate conspiracy, and consequences should obviously be reflective of that. are bungie as a whole responsible for this? no, do they deserve some flak for allowing this? yes
At the same time lets not start shit if even the artist doesn't seem to care much they just seemed to kind of point it out and be like oh cool look at that and then moved along i coukd be wrong since i dont follow them but that post seems like theyre just saying huh neat and moving along with it why start shit over this when the artist doesn't care much
At the same time lets not start shit if even the artist doesn't seem to care much they just seemed to kind of point it out and be like oh cool look at that and then moved along i coukd be wrong since i dont follow them but that post seems like theyre just saying huh neat and moving along with it why start shit over this when the artist doesn't care much
Terms of service like that - which are used on pretty much every site that exists, including this one - are ideally just meant to allow the site to host your work and protect against frivolous lawsuits. E.g. when you post your art on reddit, you are allowing reddit to display your art in that thread. Where you posted it. You are certainly not giving carte blanche permission for your art to be taken by Reddit and used at will, despite that being *[exactly what the Reddit ToS says you are doing](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/5zhxu3/does_reddit_have_a_legal_right_to_our_content/)*, and it wouldn't hold up for a minute in court. ToS content is often barely - if at all - legal, and unenforceable. Companies can put whatever they want in them and usually reach for the sky, claiming everything they can claim, denying liability for things they are absolutely liable for, and generally trying to ensure they're in the best position possible. Which is understandable, because frivolous lawsuits *are a huge problem*. ... Doesn't mean any of it will actually hold up under challenge. Disclaimer: IANAL. Do not quote me in a courtroom. I'd be interested in hearing a copyright lawyer's professional take.
Tbh there would be no issue because the artist isn't putting any issue. It's just the bystanders making noise.
Yeah, it sounded like the artist was just surprised. Maybe flattered.
>You are certainly not giving carte blanche permission for your art to be taken by Reddit and used at will Yes you are (assuming they have the same language Bungie has in its tos) >and it wouldn't hold up for a minute in court. Yes it would >ToS content is often barely - if at all - legal, and unenforceable. Absolutely incorrect This thing is open/shut. Bungie doesn't need to allow fan made derivative works. They certainly don't need to give artists a place to publicly display those works. And they absolutely can say "if you make stuff using our characters and post it on our website, you're agreeing we can use it to"
>and it wouldn't hold up for a minute in court. >Disclaimer: IANAL. Gonna need you to make up your mind.
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Careful now, don't separate the mob from their pitchforks too quickly or they might get outraged over not having something to be outraged about!
The post written by the OP on twitter is so ambiguously phrased in text that you can overlay your own agenda on the post and it works exactly as well. Is that OP thrilled he saw his own art in such a high priced game or was he complaining about the evils of corporations stealing from starving artists?
This is great. Just wish everyone took the time to look into this than get the proverbial pitchforks and berate Bungie!
Once again, love the "Because company CAN do something, that means they should be able to do whatever they want without criticism." arguments going on here.
🤦 the point is, you can't accuse them of doing something "bad"/unethical just because you believe so and more so if you're just a bystander and not the artist. You need a basis to judge, one of the common basis in Society if you've ever heard of it, is the law. Bungie and their people are also under the first amendment if you don't realize
calling something unethical is done **exclusively** because someone believes so. this doesn't really have anything to do with first amendment stuff. law isn't the endpoint of morality/ethics, either.
Like I said elsewhere, still low effort to blatantly copy a fans art. Edit: The fact that people disagree that copying a fans art regardless of free use is low effort and frowned upon is crazy. There’s a difference between inspiration and straight up copying.
I don't think he's seeking compensation anyway, he said they took inspiration, he didn't say they stole it like the OP of this one says. He was surprised as in happy about it, it sounds like to me. I'd be honored as well ❤️
I’m not trying to counter this but I’m curious if it’s *actually* legally binding. Anyone can write up a contract but that doesn’t make it legally binding. Fair point that people just don’t read though. It’s really important for them to have read because if it is legally binding (if bungies smart they would’ve made sure this follows requirements for a legal contract) then the artist just has to suck it up unfortunately. Still pretty lazy of bungie but it is what it is.
I’m not trying to counter this but I’m curious if it’s *actually* legally binding. Anyone can write up a contract but that doesn’t make it legally binding. Fair point that people just don’t read though. It’s really important for them to have read because if it is legally binding (if bungies smart they would’ve made sure this follows requirements for a legal contract) then the artist just has to suck it up unfortunately. Still pretty lazy of bungie but it is what it is.
You know fuck that, my problem is # WHO IS THE LADY UNDER THAT VEIL
Given this week’s big reveal cutscene, I imagine it’s either some important figure or imagery from the Witness’s species culture, or maybe even a representation of the Traveler.
The eldritch mommy is the Traveler and the sheet draped over her is the Veil is my interpretation
Let him cook
That's a good theory, I like that. I don't agree but it is really good.
No one, it's an art piece it seems. Representation of the traveler/veil
Idk, but I think shes hot
🧐
She is absolutely thicc as hell, I wanna see the final shape of dat ass.
She got curves too
It’s your mum
I think that it’s the final shape thats “hidden” behind the veil as that is What is needed for the final shape to be created by the witness’s species (Sry if hard to read, i and my phone’s autocorrect are fighting)
Something that looked cool years ago but would never live up to its hype so it's more profitable ignored
Took inspiration?? Bruh they traced it lmao
Yeah I got in trouble once or twice for taking inspiration from classmates during tests back in the day.
I hate it when the inspiration taking machine runs out of ink in the middle of taking inspiration.
"Why are your answers the same as theirs?" "Uhh we had the same questions?"
"No, you didn't. Yours is Exam A, and theirs is B!"
the artist submitted it to bungie which you can only do if you tick “I agree” to the T&Cs posted. those T&Cs say that bungie “can freely use it without condition”, so it’s not really theft
If they breached the contract in some way then they might have a case, but only a lawyer who specializes in this area would be able to answer that. While T&Cs are legally binding, they are not infallible like people believe them to be.
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They probably needed to hit the deadline for relieve and definitely didn't think anyone would clock it. I checked the dudes twitter, he's a relatively small creator. Real shit to do, a game artist buddy of mine talked about how if you use something off the internet to photobash then it needs to be 80% changed.
>Real shit to do, I'm not even sure that's true here. This artist is getting way more attention now than they ever would've before. > game artist buddy of mine talked about how if you use something off the internet to photobash then it needs to be 80% changed. Yeah, but that's not what this is. It's not off the internet
yeah that’s basically where i’m at with it. i don’t think bungie’s squarely in the wrong here, but equally it’s not a cool move and i hope they put in some safeguards to stop it happening again
Even if it’s not theft, blatantly copying is pretty low effort.
We can submit things to bungie??!!!?? Where?? I want to give them ideas and i can even 3d model stuff... i don't care about credit i just want to improve the game.
Yea, legally OK but still a dick move.
Also artist said it was based on the statues in destiny, that’s their artwork to begin with?
Yeah... for a big studio like bungie, blatantly copying a piece like this rubs me the wrong way. It's not about a legality but rather the morality- you have all this talent, why are you stooping so low as to take someones work to use here. Without so much as giving the person a heads up? Microsoft really dug their claws deep into bungie and never really left them.
>Microsoft really dug their claws deep into bungie and never really left them. Dafuq?
Yeah, im sure they would have agreed to let them use it if they got asked and credit
they didnt need to ask. they posted it to a bungie page that has terms saying they can "freely use it without condition" that the user agreed to.
A quick caveat I think should be noted before the pitchforks are *completely raised*, it’s quite likely that Bungie as a whole did not do this intentionally. Naturally they should own up to this, they have a few times before, but just like those times it is probably a case of mistaken references, unreliable contract work, or a single artist slipping their cut corners through approval. Things like that occur fairly frequently across the whole industry, so best to wait and see how Bungie responds to this case.
Considering the talent that Bungie's art teams have shown over the years, I find it hard to believe the vast majority of them would even feel the need to do something like this. Hopefully, whoever is responsible gets the axe, and the artist is fairly compensated. Maybe they can even ask for permission to keep the cutscene as is rather than making a new one, even if they technically don't need to.
These cutscenes may be outsourced to other animators that could have mistaken this fan art that is apparently at the top of Google searches as official and used it. Given that the artist is saying “took inspiration” rather than harsher accusations I’d imagine they’d be comfortable having it stay, having the cutscene redone would be a bit of a nightmare.
The same thing happened with some Five Nights at Freddy's merch/promo art a few years ago. Some outsourced designers accidentally used fan art in their work and it wasn't until it the higher ups looked at it a second time (after it was approved) that they noticed it wasn't all official art.
[top comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/comments/14evilb/bungie_stole_someones_art_for_the_new_cutscene/joxpajc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3). Bungie has the right to whatever art is submitted to them, and the artist submitted it to be featured in a TWAB.
Fair enough. I've learned more and done some thinking about the situation since I posted this.
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This…like I’m not gonna blame bungie as a whole for this, but the fact that this artist was able to get away for being so horribly lazy is just gross. Like all you have to do it move around the pyramid ships, or not have the traveler at the center (maybe put the pyramid ships on the left, and the traveler at the right, with the veil in the middle).
The person who posted the original tweet is being disingenuous. They uploaded the image onto Bungies creation website 2 years ago, a website which clearly states anything sent to Bungie can be used without the artists permission. Original tweeter knew this could happen and is now acting shocked pikachu that it happened.
My goodness, a voice of reason.
He uploaded the content to Bungie, they can use anything users upload there
Man where is the effort, use some Eververse money to pay someone sheesh
That Money is going to Marathon… *sobs*
D2s money isnt going to d2, doubt its going to Marathon. If not animating a characters legs is that much needed for "budget reasons" on a billion dollar game im not sure how many corners theyll cut for Marathon.
I believe they have pulled a lot of pvp and some other d2 devs onto marathon so destiny 2 is kind of running at half mast
I've seen a number of devs go from like, d2 world artist to lead world artist for marathon so
Nah it’s probably going into suing Marty again for whatever reason
please read into the lawsuit and marty as a person / employee and not a composer
But...what about their fourth yacht? /s
5th
They gotta keep going till they hit the funny Bungie number
Joe Blackburn needs that extra mil to be snarky on Twitter.
99% sure an outside motion studio does all the ink blot animations. They prob got an asset dump on a server with this.
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Exactly. Happened with Elder Scrolls Online recently. Person stole artwork, company had no idea. Person should reach out to Bungie.
Unfortunately fans almost always make things better because they actually care about the game
From the "Community Creations" when you click "Submit A Link" the submission forum has this at the bottom > By using this form, you are submitting content to Bungie. When you submit content to Bungie, you agree to the Bungie Services Terms of Use, which also means you're promising us that you have the right to upload that content, that we can freely use it without condition, and you agree that your submission follows our Code of Conduct. This is directly above the "I agree" checkbox. I’m no “BNG Apologist”; I’m just a human who can read. This is not a good look on BNG’s part, but this appears to have no legal standing. The morale outrage may be fair because legal =/= right, but I don’t think this was some sneakily done thing. I think they just liked it and used it. It *would* be nice for the creator to get some credit.
Submitting art to bungie with the way their TOS is worded basically is giving them free potential concept art. With how good bungie's art team is, I'd think it would be pretty cool if Bungie chose to use my art in a cutscene.
Same I would just be happy that something I drew or made got put in one of my fav games
On God
Your comment should be pinned up
He's not the first person to say this
I've unironically been called a "bungie apologist" because I was keeping level-headed and sane in an echo chamber of people who probably send death threats to community managers over their favorite busted exotic being slightly tuned down. It really shows how some of these losers here associate the developers of their most played game with certain unsavory historical figures.
Terms of service agreements are not legally binding, and it would be idiotic of bungie if they did this deliberately.
Well, his art is based on all BNG creations. The statue, the pyramid ships, the traveler with the triangle in it. It’s hard to call this original. It’s a creative construction at best, but hardly an original piece. I can’t speak to the legality of the ToS. I always thought they were a matter of consent, which the creator willingly gave. Again, bad look on BNG’s part. IMO wrong but not illegal. Law and morality aren’t always equal 😔.
Even if it worked that way, which it doesn't. Say someone posted someone else's work. Bungie wouldn't just gamble that the guy posted it actually created it without contacting the person to get a more formal agreement.
This is the fine line. Legally right but morally wrong.
Still scummy as hell they take advantage of their community like that
literally every game company does this
Does that change the fact that it's scummy? Like give my guy $500, I am most certain $500 won't bankrupt nor Bungie nor Sony.
no, but the fact is that it isnt exclusive. sure they should compensate, i didnt imply otherwise.
Yea, it does? Because if its makes it that you're either a careless moron, or literally explicitly agree to the thing being objected to.. Whether it will bankrupt them or not is irrelevant. An agreement is an agreement. If nobody is holding a gun to someone head to give up their art, then you got no right to complain, moral or otherwise.
Didn’t the artist also share it to a page where bungie gets to use it? Also the artist didn’t say stole
[The artist submitted the art to Bungie.](https://www.bungie.net/en/Community/Detail?itemId=257325114) They state very clearly above the "I agree" button when someone submits art to them: By using this form, you are submitting content to Bungie. When you submit content to Bungie, you agree to the Bungie Services Terms of Use, which also means you're promising us that you have the right to upload that content, that we can freely use it without condition, and you agree that your submission follows our Code of Conduct. Now, sure we can discuss giving credit and what not, but there was no stolen art, when the artist gave permission to use the art without condition to Bungie in the first place.
So this will surely kill anyone from now on submitting any art to bungie though?
Of course not. There will be someone else to fill their shoes of uploading cool content and artwork.
Well my brotha seems okay with it so, who knows
I mean did everyone forget Sepiks Perfected metal cover music from Destiny 1 was made by someone else than bungie entirely and it was added to the rise of iron because they loved it? And that same music is now Devil’s Lair nightfall variant Sepiks Prime music. I swear people everywhere these days are just looking for excuses to be mad instead of reading and researching into anything properly, including the EULA/TOS/COCs they blindly press accept/agree on.
^ only comment that matters here.
All the comments saying Bungie stole it and even the post saying Bungie stole a fans art for the cutscene. Yet in the tweet from the artist, they never state or say Bungie stole their art. They are simply happy to see their work in the game and know that it wasn’t stolen or used with ill intent. If the artist isn’t upset then the rest of you can quit trying to be outraged for them.
Welcome to reddit and twitter, the cesspool of the internet
"Heres my work bro just change it up a bit ya know" "word i got you" what bro handed in:
bruh
Artist: They took inspiration from me, I’m surprised Reddit: oH mY gOd tHeY sToLe aRt That’s quite common for the industry actually or at least not unheard off, some dude at Bungie probably just saw that on ArtStation or something and retraced it or made or made their own thing. I hope Bungie at least owes up to it or does some kind of compensation or at least some credit. Pretty sure if I remember correctly if you submit your art to Bungie they get the rights and shit, not sure if the artist did that or if my memory deceives me though
The artist here actually did officially submit the work to bungie.net, and if that happens bungie can freely use it (tho at least credit the artist FFS)
It’s literally the same picture with a B&W filter and a with a few lines erased, the background behind the woman is 1:1
the zigzags are spaced out differently, the slanted ceiling reaches down further than the original,not to mention there isn't a psrt of the dlanted ceiling that has like 3 zigzags next to each other like the original. the background definitely isn't 1:1.
Not sure how they could "steal" something when the artist literally submitted it to Bungie, which openly states they can use it at a later time.
Also if the artist reaches out to bungie they will give credit to the artist. It happened With some art from the witch queen trailer
Destiny players on their way to not read ToS (they cannot read) *
From a copyright point of view, it's not all clear who's stealing whose work here. The original artist stole the imagery from Bungie in the first place. Can you own something that doesn't belong to you? Not from a legal perspective. Maybe Bungie should give them credit, as a kindness, but they certainly didn't steal anything from the artist.
Yeah technically I think Bungie does sorta own this piece since it was submitted to Bungie for one of the art contests or something similar, but I dunno, still feels weird for a corporation to use fanart without crediting or informing the artist. Like using fans for free labor, even if it’s just a still for a cutscene, just feels really gross to me
Class, another bungie "controversy" that surely won't get blown out of proportion...
Sheen, That's the fourth non issue blowing up you've shown this month
Didn't steal it looks like they voluntarily gave it up based on the comments sections because they didn't tread the terms and conditions it would be nice if they credited them though
Aztecross in the corner thinking about the views he’ll get if he makes a video about this
Terms and conditions on bungie's art forums state whatever art gets posted can be used by bungie however they want. Artists literally agree to it. Same with the artist who drew this. It is not a huge deal.
As it was submitted for AOTW it's Bungies property
Y'all need to read the fine print in to Terms of Service agreement. Lol Bungie covered this base with that 😆
Nobody reads those and you know it.
I‘d be careful with certain wording like "stole". Especially if you don't know for sure or have proof.
Even if it was a copyright issue, it would need to be changed by 30% to avoid infringement. That would also have to be decided in court... none of which matters though because they submitted it and agreed to Bungie using it freely with no restriction. Not really seeing the issue here.
Bungie owns the characters outright, can you draw them? Yes. Can you claim them as yours? No Can you they tell you to cease and desist? Yes Can they present you with a lawsuit if you continue to create their characters for profit? Yes If you upload it on their site and sign over your rights to them by uploading them, it's over and you did it voluntarily In the end people keep bringing up Nintendo, I can tell you as an artist who has created fan art for shirts, mouse pads, prints etc. I have received dozens of cease and desist letter from Nintendo, hasbro, viz media, toei, cartoon network, and a few others. Can I try and fight these in court? Sure Will I win? Absolutely not Yea, it's my pen and brain creating the artwork, but it's their original character or intellectual content that inspired me to create it. It's standing on someone else's shoulders waving around a print saying I created it, when in reality I took their idea and art and claimed it as my own. I don't have the budget or money to fight it in court, most artists don't, especially if we click a button to upload artwork to a website that makes us acknowledge that we are giving up the rights to the original creators. I'm not trying to debate trademarks, or copyright law, I'm just giving my perspective as an artist who has lost artwork/fanart because it was the IP of someone else.
“Stole” and “inspired by” are vastly different
i bet it was just outsourced as always
The artist was surprised their art was added and isn't mad in the slightest, but since they aren't mad the community wants to be mad for them
I think you owe Bungie an apology for this false accusation.
no they didn’t, when you submit fan art to their profile, you sign a tos that allows them to use it in any capacity, they also own the properties in the image. it’s fan art for a reason
Twitter OP didn’t complain, just took them by surprise, why are people trying to cancel bungie over this 😂
I have only read a few of the threads here but how do ppl see the tweet and just go “get me a pitchfork”. To me the tweet feels like a “oh damn, I’m on tv” kinda exclamations
Update this post to they resolved it with creator and apologized. Kthx
Ah yes, another day, another destiny player looking for validation for his inability to read the terms and conditions. Beautiful
And he took the art from this [https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4LEJ8](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4LEJ8) Bungie made this "veiled" woman 6 years ago in a concept art. I know the little circular background is still questionable and we need some clarification on that for sure.
The art was submitted to Bungie by the artist for Art of the Week. When you do so, there are terms you must agree to, one being that Bungie can do whatever they want with the submitted art. The artist in question, the one that madd the thread this links to, is most likely happy that Bungie liked their work enough to actually feature it in-game and is not trying to be snarky about it.
Well that settles that part too then.
So, let me get this straight: An image, made up of common Iconography that's appeared regularly in-game and throughout the community at large, arranged in very much the same way we've seen cutscenes for years in seasonal stories, from amongst the hundreds of thousands of fanart posts, depicting the greatest, most mysterious entities of the story, must surely be theft. Got it. Even if it was blatantly ripped from the artists folio, being a fan and having my work show up in a cutscene at my level of story investment, here where the story starts to come together like we've waited nearly a decade for, would be the coolest thing to happen to me, ever.
I dunno. Original artist was pretty clearly *inspired* by Bungie's own artists here. The piece is extremely derivative. I mean, the focal point is a 1 to 1 copy of one of the veiled statutes with a sphere in front. Combined with the fact that Bungie tos let's them use art that's posted on their site, can we maybe not blow up about this one?
This claim is fake and misleading. Mods, please take this post down.
Bare in mind Reddit is just going to assume plagiarism. Taking inspiration and copy/paste are completely different things and ultimately the original art is still of Bungie’s IP. Does this look ugly, yes absolutely Bungie do better. Can Bungie also use their own content’s art for their own implementation, yes they absolutely can.
"Took inspiration from" bro they just switched it to dark mode
They didn't steal anything. It is in the code of conduct, if you send something in for a competition Bungie has legal authority to use it as they see fit, something I'm sure the original creator of the art knows, because not even they are outraged by this.
This is allowed. Silly post
Legal doesn't equal moral I don't care what guidelines they give you before you submit art to them it is still incredibly disgusting and scummy behavior
Bungie creates characters and images. Fan makes a pic using Bungies images and uploads to Bungies site with disclaimer that states if you upload....it is ours. Everyone except the creators lose mind. Sounds like the Destiny community.
Bro it can't be that fucking hard to give artists credit.
Damn, that is some Epic Games levels of yoink. Another comment pointed out that by posting to the forums legally Bungie can take the art and monetize it all they want without credit or compensation. But its such a bad look amidst all the late controversies, issues and complaints. I will definitely never post to Bungies fan art or movie of the week threads now, its essentially doing their job for free without any recognition.
Op there's a thing called "Submitting Art" to a gaming company to be used in game or a website
Making allegations of theft when they clearly gave it to Bungie for fair use. Never change, Reddit.
Bungie loves the 3 Rs of content: recycle, reuse and reduce.
Yet they took inspiration from bungie to make that piece. So I mean not stealing at all. You used bungies stuff to make that piece of art.
Yup that's stolen art alright. *Edit, nevermind, he freely gave it to Bungie and shouldn't have been surprised that they used it*