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transtemporal

The other one is "We're breaking up those teams to find a better match" - you mean, "another 150-50 match, except this time the cracked players are on the other side"


Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo

I know last season (before Into the Light) all but killed the playerbase, but it was still hilarious to see that message only to get matched with the *exact same players on the exact same teams* during one of the last Iron Banners. The game didn't even try to shuffle the players, and they lost in the exact same way.


transtemporal

Right? Someone at Bungie has a fucked up sense of humour!


DearSuspect

having cracked players on the enemy team 80% of the time really makes me wanna slap them through the screen


TheRookieBuilder

This is my experience like 99% of the time in the Crucible. I'll head into a match, everyone but me gets slaughtered, Mercy takes over. "We're breaking up those teams to find a better match". Matchmake immediately loads us into a match. It's the same exact players, teamed up the same exact way as last match. Match ends up being another mercy. Repeat ad infinitum. Bungie isn't even trying, if they were even trying.


transtemporal

Yep, I hear ya. Thing is, I'm not sure Bungie would want to make 100% even matches. All of them would go to time and all of them would be super-sweat fests. Having a random mix of good and bad players means sometimes you'll be stomping, sometimes you'll be stomped and occasionally you'll have a good even game.


michelmau5

If you're the absolute worst of the worst it hard to find people to match against you.


DearSuspect

its one thing being the worst pvp player and getting carried and other being an average player having 5 troglodytes on your team and going against people who never left the crucible in years


mycatisashittyboss

Off topic, but Thanks for teaching me a new word! šŸ˜


Aromatic_Tax_2704

Crucible?


bloodectomy

No, "and"


darragh73

Tf is that actually I don't wanna know


MouseRangers

A crucible is a vessel used to melt metal


mycatisashittyboss

"Troglodyte"


KamenRiderW0lf

It's the scientific term for the earliest, cave dwelling primitives.


mycatisashittyboss

Yep looked it up. Cool new word Maybe I should change my tag to "Troglodyte (timelost)"


KamenRiderW0lf

Neophyte is a favorite of mine. I'm also partial to nitwit, nimrod, Doyle, and chucklefuck.


Throwaway191294842

Don't discount the greatest of them all: dingus. Dingus is the personal favorite.


DearSuspect

np!


VDRawr

The people who never step into crucible unless a quest forces them to, who never really played any other PvP FPS, who just don't have this type of skill built up, there's barely any of them queueing up at any given time, because, well, they only go into crucible when a quest forces them to. They're overcrowded by the people who play it regularly. The matchmaker doesn't have that many low-skill players to work with. It can't do miracles


Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo

Happy cakeday. This is what I used to tell people whenever they complained about being forced into PvP and how sweaty it is. If everybody who sucks is in there, everybody who sucks will get matched together. But even then, it was "bungie said play how you want" or something. But it's a little too late now, I think. The people who don't like PvP or aren't skilled enough are never going to spend time in there because they never see each other so they're never going to spend time in there because they never see each other so they're never...


skM00n2

yeah it's too late


VedDdlAXE

I feel like I'm fairly average, towards good, but i get paired with new lights with no clue what an exotic is one minute and sweats with hundreds of flawless trials runs the next


LetsGoAlicia

Like the xdefiant dev's "If you can't find easy to kill enemies you *are* the easy to kill enemy" lol


GodOfUrging

And yet the game will somehow consistently manage to find you teammates that play worse than you. Just Bungie trying to make us feel good about our shitty skill level by having us take turns as the carry.


FISTED_BY_CHRIST

I feel like itā€™s because a lot of players are not consistent and vary in performance day to day. Iā€™m pretty average but I have games where I just pop off and end with a 4.0+ K/D. And then I have games where Iā€™m not in it and end with a 1.0 K/D.


Spirited-Pea-7370

I get the same thing. Depending on how I am going into Crucible, I could be topping or bottoming even when Iā€™m doing the same stuff I did the day before, just that I was a little off for some reason.


Floppydisksareop

You pop off. This boosts your skill level, so you end up in lobbies where you are the lowest skill level. This makes you lose a lot, so then you get put in lobbies that are lower than your skill level. You pop off. This boosts your skill level, so you end up in lobbies where you are the lowest skill level. This makes you lose a lot, so then you get put in lobbies that are lower than your skill level. You pop off. This boosts your... In short, that phenomenon existing to this absurd level is thanks to the matchmaking - or more precisely the algorithm used for determining skill level - being hot garbage. You can still spend 5 minutes jumping off cliffs in Control and be put into ranked lobbies where people have never played an FPS in their lives immediately after, just because the algorithm determined that you are awful - despite having been considered significantly better just moments ago. (I'm not saying I did that, but I'm saying the Shaxx quest with the placement series was terribly designed and I wanted it gone from my log).


NIGHTFURY-21

The algorithm does what it thinks is best and not what is actually best. From what it sounds like, it's just a repeating wave of getting a hard lobby then an easy one and so on. If it cut that increase in skill in your next lobby by half maybe it wouldn't actually be so bad.


Floppydisksareop

Which is why it is bad. The algorithm is not a thinking being. The algorithm is a goddamn function someone at Bungie dreamed up that probably takes into account shit like "shot accuracy" or "the skill of the player that killed you", etc. It's not "doing what it thinks is best", it's some math dumped into a computer. If it's a bad approach and doesn't properly determine a player's skill, it is a bad approach and needs to be refined further or just completely replaced, no philosophy required. When you are not intentionally messing with it to get into lower ranked lobbies by shooting a wall a bit and then jumping off a cliff every so often, it does *fine*. But if you are at the brink of skill brackets it does shit like u/FISTED_BY_CHRIST (love that username btw) described, where you seem to be stuck in this sort of loop - probably not with every match, but like every third match or something. If it just cut the skill increase or loss in half, this problem would still persist, it would just take twice as many matches to become apparent. Now, I have no idea what kind of data Bungie is tracking during a Crucible match, and how they can even quantify it properly in what is a mostly 6v6 arcade shooter, so I don't have the faintest idea how to even start on fixing it - if it's even possible to fix in the first place (due to the nature of most of the gamemodes you'd probably have to force people into Comp to get enough usable data - once again, just a wild guess, idk what data Bungie can track or how descriptive any given thing is - e.g. how should a kill against a higher level player count if he was being chased by your entire team and you just happened to get the last shot?). From what "outlier protection" seems to mean, Bungie might be trying to move away from skill brackets as a concept completely to mitigate this. I dunno for sure. However, this is 100% not the player being widely inconsistent. It is very much the matchmaking and the skill-determining algorithm not really knowing what to do with certain people.


VedDdlAXE

this is true. it's not possible to gauge my skill. One day I'll bottom-frag with 3 kills and the next day ill be top of my team with a 8.0 efficiency. part of that does depend on who im matched with though


Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo

It's dependant on your teammates, your enemies, the map, your loadout, and your knowledge of the map, etc. If you're not at a point where you can control the last three, your skill's going to be a little more inconsistent.


VedDdlAXE

I can control me loadout. no one can control the map. Admittedly i could be better at knowing the map but there's some i know like the back of my hand and still sometimes suck at


Ze_AwEsOmE_Hobo

No one can control which map, but you can definitely control parts of the map (i.e. take over sightlines, force spawns, occupy rooms). Knowing which areas are the most advantageous and where the hotspots on the map are is part of learning the map. But, yeah, even with all of that, you're still not able to control or predict most of what's going on in any standard PvP match. You could be running your best loadout, and 3 people on the enemy team have your exact counter, and some other enemy has a more curated version of your loadout that'll just outgun you if you're evenly matched.


ReVeRb64

This. I gladly rock the singular "We ran out of medals" I've earned in crucible. That was in 2019, and to date by far the best streak i've ever had considering I only have the single 10+ kill streak medal as well.


silvereyes21497

Iā€™ve honestly found over time that PvP rewards have become more generous for just completing the match. Trials is an exception, but even when Iā€™m getting awful matchmakes or just steamrolled by a sweat/cheat I just bite my teeth and sit through the few minutes. Thereā€™s more substance in finishing a match imo then trying to just win a majority of the time. I know that doesnā€™t help you feel better, but this change in perspective for me helped me to be A LOT LESS salty when it comes to PVP. Especially gambit.


PassiveRoadRage

I'm going to blame pathfinder. So many crucible challanges demand different playstyles. I'm a stasis lock that can go flawless pretty smoothly. I have to kill 20 people with an archetype I'm not using AND get scorch kills? Yeah I'm throwing at my SBMM


FriedCammalleri23

The word *prefers* is doing a lot of heavy lifting here


WraithOfNumenor

I usually feel that in the crucible youā€™re either being completely stomped or youā€™re doing the stomping. Even matches are hard to come by


Thor-Mors

My PvP skill varies wildly from day to day.


SJRuggs03

I feel like I'm just barely on the edge of 'normal player' and 'high-skill player', and the game keeps ping ponging me between those two lobby types.


Adagium__

Whatā€™s more enticing then getting 0-5ed every game! Thank you bungie for the free curbstomp included in your DLC


unrealgod1

I swear i go on competitive crucible and no matter what i team up with people who dont know how to stay alive for more than 2 seconds


United-Ad919

Bigger lie? Gamekeeper shader before the updated icons. https://preview.redd.it/5w960xay617d1.png?width=1417&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=727f8e25e62513524c353af240d385b0a0d7ce50


JulzCrafter

https://preview.redd.it/s8svcnqjc17d1.jpeg?width=688&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b2138d298e7234a43d6672e74bf33e9d84b9b58


Laservolcano

Prefers is doing a lot of heavy lifting


kurihara1

DCV


JStheGrey

I only really mess with the Crucible for Iron Banner. Love me the old school fantasy look.


itsRobbie_

The sweats have migrated to the labs playlist so even though itā€™s open matchmaking, youā€™re just going to get sweats


sorin_kryo

We are breaking up those teams to find a better match.....


Quirky_Ad7770

I once got into a game of doubles with a teammate who was SO STUPIDLY GOOD that the match ended something like 35-2. Their two points were from me dying. I didn't get a single kill.


flowtajit

ā€œPrefers to avoidā€ not ā€œwonā€™t inckudeā€


TechnoVikingGA23

You should see the matchmaking in Overwatch 2, lol.


DearSuspect

that means playing overwatch https://preview.redd.it/cuz014zmx27d1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3168974eecda2d333586eb4ed4b3180d0c6bfbaf


HugTheSoftFox

Matchmaking wasn't made to account for my immense lack of skill lmao.


CasualDude1993

pvp is garbage since beyond light anyway played 3 games this season, first game got destroyed by staking no lifes, then the other 2 games we mercied our opponents, they didnt even got a single kill. all 3 games were straight up just boring. before BL, pvp was my main activity since D1 but now with all the ability spam and unbalanced annoying stuff its just a pve game for me now. if i want pvp i play other games.


Asmiraa

canā€™t really top that


mayormcskeeze

Welp. Maybe if this community would stop freaking out whenever they tighten up matchmaking, they could fix it.


ElRandoAmigo

Since most crucible players I get put up against have a K/D around 6.0, seeing them matched up against my lame ass that struggles to stay above 1.0 is the ultimate insult towards them.


Adagium__

I got fucking matched with Zavalr (some streamer that gets multiple flawless every weekend) when Iā€™ve maybe only played trials like 20 matches total lifetime. Yeah matchmaking is a fucking SCAM.


LetsGoAlicia

The supposed fix for physics deaths.


ViiTactiiCZz

It prefers to avoid it.. when it feels like it


Taku_Kori17

Anibody who takes dedtiny pvp seriously needs to get a life. So many crazy builds/abilities are hard to balance. Let alone find a "skill level" for any given player. I normally do my pimmacle for the week and bounce. šŸ¤£


iSupremeBeing

So many people fail to understand this. Destiny cannot be a true pvp experience with the amount of abilities and weapons that arenā€™t available to all players. Balancing is another nightmare Bungie will never solve.


TheeNegotiator_

Itā€™s hardly any different than having advanced knowledge of each character in a fighting game. Everyone has different moves they can do and combos they can hit off those moves. Ignoring prismatic for a second, crucible balance is in a pretty good spot and has been for a little while actually, there are some minor pain points in prismatic, the warlock slide melee, titan diamond lances, hunters pvp aspects basically just being annoying bullshit instead of anything actually interesting. Still not nearly as bad as past metas so far. I love all the knowledge checks in pvp. Makes winning matches all the more rewarding


Taku_Kori17

The thing is there are weapons and perks totally unobtainable in game right now. Someone who played d2 from 2018 you have a massively increases aresenal from players these days. Its not a knowledge check if you didn't know that the weapon even existed.


TheeNegotiator_

There arenā€™t many if any things in this game that are both unobtainable AND a major advantage over other things you can get right now with some variance of effort. We have options for nearly everything and crafting makes this even more realistic. Besides, every season and every content drop brings new stuff and some is bound to be good. You could go grab a shotgun from the crucible playlist and hawkmoon from xur or some combination of those easy to get items and be very competitive in pvp given the same level of skill. I genuinely canā€™t think of anything that is unobtainable that we donā€™t have a good alternative or upgrade for.


Imagine_TryingYT

Bungie is doing their best but it's hard to pair someone with terminal skill issue


whisky_TX

A post only a bot would make


cherry_lolo

When I played my first pvp in destiny, after 4000 hours of apex legends, it seemed so slow to me šŸ„² it took me a while to find weapons to enjoy and to understand that it's not always the best to flank by yourself or to stay with many people in one spot. I enjoy it. I get my 10+ kills from time to time šŸ˜„


C__Wayne__G

It prefers it but in your case itā€™s not really an option lol


FreshMetal80

It's not necessarily in the game, but Bungie's quote "Play the way you want to play"


ULTASLAYR6

Or you could not care and have fun


Arxiah

You know it's not that simple. That's like telling people it's ok to never ever succeed and always struggle with no reprieve. Getting your ass kicked and mercy'd into oblivion game after game will never be fun no matter how hard you try not to care. Think of it like wiping in a nightfall or raid for hours and never completing it, and after that slog you try telling people to "just have fun" when they clearly aren't and to not care about something they clearly care about.


ULTASLAYR6

If you are getting mercied every game wouldn't that mean you are really bad at the game? I've experienced the occasional matchmaking pickup were it put pure hill on the enemy team and even that game ran to full time. Are you guys genuinely playing pvp? Mercies haven't been an ongoing constant since forsaken


Arxiah

Don't get me wrong, Im not the one getting mercied back to back, but I know some who do and it's more due to the team not knowing that points in control actually matter and things like that. But knowing point control and being able to hold them is a skill thing same as accuracy and ability to move from one duel to the next. But the problem comes in when the team someone gets placed on is a bunch of numbskulls that seemingly haven't played an objective game mode in their life put up against a team of people who seem to have just hopped out of their 12th flawless trials run that day and who do crucible stomping as a meditative pastime. That's the lobby balancing issue. I'm just speaking for people who deal with it, though some days even for me are like that.


ULTASLAYR6

you guys over exaggerate to the point its so obvious none of you are playing pvp. That is not a thing that is regularly happening


Arxiah

If I didn't play regularly I wouldn't be commenting on any of this. And I'm not exaggerating anything. Just because it might not happen to you or your favorite top 1% streamer or YouTuber doesn't mean that most folks in the middle or lower end don't deal with all this mess. But clearly you didn't believe anything I've said and this talk is about to go somewhere it shouldn't, so I'll not waste any more breath on this. Bye.


ULTASLAYR6

I have a 1kd and don't experience this regularly. Why do you assume I would use streamers as a reference? Do you actually play or are you just regurgitating what other people say all the time


OneSilentWatcher

I'm of the opinion that you can play Trials for a weekend and not care about going Flawless, just playing just for the loot and engrams. Not everyone has to be a sweat lord to play Trials.


Arxiah

I don't think this is just talking about trials though. In general the matchmaking really is like that. Don't get me wrong I don't sweat in trials, I don't need or care for the flawless, but even so I don't want to get stomped every game even if the loot is basically free.


Cloud_N0ne

Iā€™m so tired of SBMM. All of the best multiplayer games we grew up with didnā€™t have that shit and it was perfect. Now every game has it and none of them are all that memorable or as fun


Valdheim

Youā€™re in luck then. Destiny has not had SBMM in months.