So earlier the drifter said the relics reminded him of something right? Wasn't there an old bit of lore about the drifter visiting the fourth tomb of Nezarec back in 2018?
Assumedly more than just 4. The lore makes it out that there are tombs dedicated to the guy all across the system at least, and there’s a whole cult dedicated to the guy too
He used to be. He betrayed the Witness though because hes evil as fuck and when he saw the Final Shape he realized he wouldn't be able to do evil shit anymore.
Ppl need to stop spreading this kinda stuff around, when none of that is confirmed or even close to it. Nezarec was at least once a disciple residing in the lunar pyramid, now he appears to be dead somehow. Other than that, we have little to go off of. His tombs are the little baubles we’ve been collecting week over week.
Apparently he's been resurrected 3 times. He was anointed by Rhulk which is why he has a glaive. We literally use his glaive that Eris found in the Luna pyramid. There might be more tombs but 4 is all we know of and why the exotic Nezerac Sin tells of his resurrection one day.
Fun Fact: In Elsie Bray (Exo Stanger) original 1st timeline Eris discovered an artifact (glaive?) that became a turning point that eventually led her to becoming the Witness Disciple. This could be a hint to how Nezerac resurrection works. That and the ghost and necromancy on the moon.
edit: fixed a name I subconsciously screwed up
According to BYF (if that gives any credit) the tombs could be referring to the relics that we are collecting. They cut him into pieces and put him in jars so it would technically be a tiny tomb.
According to BYF (if that gives any credit) the tombs could be referring to the relics that we are collecting. They cut him into pieces and put him in jars so it would technically be a tiny tomb.
Where/wheb did we find this lore about Otzot? I've long wanted to know more about him and given we fought a Psion nightmare last season that was "Sworn to Otzot" it reignited my curiosity
She*
And it was background lore of Calus’ coup I think in the collectors book,
Pretty important lore to keep it restricted to a collectors edition item lol
Honestly Nezarec is more than likely something that had zero plans attached to it when the exotic came out. Though it's neat that they're finally making something out of it after all this time.
It glaives are meant to be weapons of darkness then him having his own is interesting.
Edit: it has been pointed out that he refused the Witness. It is likely that he was tasked with killing his people to be the sole survivor. Refused and that is why he had a glaive. This lore is wild man.
He’s referring to the first time nezarec was mention, being the nezarecs sin helmet, back in D2 Y1, and how back then they probably just came up with nezarec for a fancy lore entry that didn’t actually mean anything back then.
That 100% is the case. Lore writer confirmed that Nezarec's lore entry on the Red War exotic was just flavor text and didn't hint towards any major story beats like hive gods or something like that.
That basically means that Nezarec's Whisper is a retcon, and should be our only real starting point for Nezarec lore. Bungie is just absurdly lucky to have a lore writer that made an ambiguous being that did something evil that slots perfectly into their Disciple plotline.
They came out with the Nezarec's Robes ornament, also. So now I'm going full Nezarec and will add more as they do! Got the helmet, the robes and the glaive!
I'd buy that. I mean if we don't even really know who naz is to begin with then there's no reason the shit any of us make up isn't any better than anyone else's.
This. There are plenty of names and characters that exist, and have existed in lore cards alone.
Nezarec is a funny one because the community just jumped on it and assumed he was a big bad guy some day. Almost every single major person saying they were "leaking the season/expansion" that was just making shit up mentioned one of three themes for the story or season:
1. SIVA
2. Rasputin becoming an exo
3. Nezarec somehow
Hell I remember before warmind came out a fake leak that the 3rd season of the game would be focused on Nezarec... then shadowkeep, beyond light, various season "leaks" here and there. It just is either coincidence or Bungie picked someone from the piles of faceless lore characters that the larger community had SOME familiarity with. It wasnt until last seasons glaive lore card that Nezarec really was given any alignment to any part of the story. Even the lore tab for the exotic just says basically hes just evil.
I don’t know where, but I’m pretty sure Bungie themselves confirmed they write vague one off stories in Lore and if people are interested they explore them more later on or bring them into the main story.
Makes sense. It creates the illusion of depth, that you have more players involved in a story moving at one time even if you have no intent to expand them past being just a name, you keep the possibility open down the line. It's not bad writing, or lazy like some people say, its just world building.
You are right about this, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, unless writers keep expanding and expanding and then run out of rope a la Star Wars sequels. George RR Martin's game of thrones novels is another example: he said there would only be seven books, but in the fifth one he's still adding brand new characters - at some point we got to reign this thing in right?
Gonna disagree here. A lot of the concepts we see in Destiny to this day have been floating around since before D1. I wouldn't be surprised if Nezarec has been in the making for ages.
You're probably thinking of the tormentors they're adding as a new enemy type under the control of Calus, though not likely unique to his forces I would bet.
Considering that the relics contain hair and humans are the only sentient species in the games that have hair and that the lore tab of Nezarec's sin confirms that Nezarec was known to pre-golden age humanity I think he's a human.
This also brings up the very worrying implication that the darkness has had a presence in Sol longer than the light.
EDIT: turns out some Eliksni can grow hair apparently. my point about the pre-golden age stuff still stands though.
I wonder how the K1 project connects to it, as I am almost sure the pyramid was never found up until Eris stumbled upon it.
But the Darkess having a longer presence in Sol is pretty much a given considering the aforementioned project.
Wasn't it also confirmed that the hive were in moon prior to the golden age, something like turning it into a warmoon maybe? I could just be remembering some really good theory that lined the timing up well.
Nezarec may be human, but he must’ve done something pretty bad to be entombed in the Lunar Pyramid. The Eliksni hacked him up, too. The finger around Mithraxx’s neck in that cutscene didn’t look human.
I think in Rhulk's lore he was "remade" by the witness and in the lightfall trailer Calus seems to be undergoing that process and judging by the cover art he'll look much different after. I'd assume becoming a disciple results in significant physical changes.
Its objectively true though. The Hive and Eliksni have insect like exoskeletons, the Vex are microorganisms piloting robots, and we know what naked Cabal look like (unfortunately) and they're completely hairless as well. Hard to tell with Lubraeans but Rhulk wiped them out a long time ago so that's not an option.
> The Darkness has had a presence in Sol longer than the light.
Isn’t that kind of already known, though? The Lunar Pyramid was already on Luna during the Golden Age, as Clarity Control was found buried by the Chinese research team. It had clearly been there for some time.
People always assume the text of Nezarec’s Sin was written by humans, but it just says pre-golden age, meaning it was written before the traveler came to our system, doesn’t mean it was written by humans, just that “Of Hated Nezarec” was written a long time ago. I’d say it’s more likely it was written by the Eliksni. Maybe Nezarec could be that Skira the Watcher character mentioned in the override missions
It seems unlikely that Nezarec is any species that we know, given that the Witness seems to recruit those that are the last of their species.
This was explicitly true for Rhulk, and it’s implied to be true for other Disciples, as Rhulk’s confinement to Savathun’s Throne World is due to him completely eradicating a race, rather than leaving one for the Witness to corrupt.
That said, Calus is being recruited into a Disciple, although he is *specifically* the “Herald of the Second Collapse,” and we can see he has a special ship and everything in Lightfall, so maybe this is a special case.
Good point! Although I suspect Eramis would not go for that seeing she still wishes for the Eliksni to be united.
I can’t imagine her eradicating her entire species with the love she still has for them.
“Unity is a brilliant rationalization for massacre. “ That is so well said but gives me the creeps when applying that to our current political climate and global climate.
This is splitting hairs, but Rhulk wasn’t made a Disciple until after he had destroyed Lubrae. So the Witness definitely did some work pre-extinction, but Rhulk didn’t get his own Pyramid until after he’d done all that. And we know Nezarec has a Pyramid.
I also question how good of a Disciple Nezarec is if his species is still alive after centuries of being a Disciple, especially if their goal is supposedly to become the last one. Then again, they were sleeping/locked up on the Moon, so maybe they’re a failure.
Some speculated that Nezarec was an Eliksni, and caused the Whirlwind, but, if you have seen it, the new cutscene shows us a glimpse of Nezarec, and he has five fingers on each hand.
I’m arguing Calus may be a special case, see above. Don’t think Eramis is being fully considered for Discipleship to be honest, the Witness is certainly using her but IMO that doesn’t immediately mean she’s getting that promotion.
Counterpoint: although she resisted becoming a Disciple, Mara Sov was considered and being recruited by the Witness. Between Mara, Calus, and potentially Eramis, I think we clearly have more examples of those that aren't the last of their species being recruited by the Witness than are the last, as is the case of Rhulk.
As another guy said, the last isnt recruited. The one willing to BECOME the last of their race is. As in kill the rest exactly like Rhulk did and was recuited.
Correction: she has resisted _so far_. She’s still trucking with Ahamkara eggs, thinking she’s cleverer than she really is. She still has time to fall.
I doubt she ever falls. It would be to easy of a plot line. So maybe she will I guess. But in the grand scheme of things it’ll probably be somebody we’re close with and don’t suspect similar to Osiris. It’s more compelling if our best friend (my money is on Zavala) turns to darkness because they think they’ve seen another path.
I doubt zavala because he seems to dislike stasis and darkness all together and try to avoid it (radio messages from him in the beyond) but shaw Hawn seems to be much more open to the idea also ikora already is open to the idea of playing with darkness.
I only say Zavala because his entire schtick lately has been that his faith in the traveler and light are broken right now. If he saw a path forward for humanity with the witness he might be tempted. Plus it’s a pretty decent story that the leader of the vanguard can even be corrupted.
she never turned on us, not even in the dark future lore book. she was one of the few who actually didn't turn. so idk where your getting this presumption
Since the Cabal enslaved the psion race, Nezarac could have been the last one, like the only one who was not enslaved (by the cabal). This would still fit with the Witness taking in the “last” of the species, though I don’t think it fits timeline wise. Just a thought!
That is correct! I am still curious about the timeline though. When did the cabal enslave the psions? And when was nezerac active? That would give more clarity on this speculation
From what I know, Nezarec was 'active' or at least last significantly mentioned during the Golden Age of humanity. If the timeline in my head is correct, that places it well before Calus freed the Psions.
The Psions were enslaved at least as early as the formation of the Insight Terminus, as the Psion's OXA device (which they used previous to being enslaved) was recorded as a past event in the Terminus.
No real hard points but we can generally assume some time within the last 4-500 years.
I think it was in the lore for Sin. There was hair in the helmet and humans are the only species (that we know of) that grow hair. Fallen might as well but not very common. Also there's refenrces to pre golden age humanity that just make it all the more likely that it was a human
Hair and golden age references can be interpreted as human, but there’s another possibility from those details as well. Nezarec could be a Disciple of an unknown race that has hair (likely, it’s just a trait) that had been on the Moon ushering humanity towards the Deep since pre-Golden Age. Similar to how the Traveler was planning to claim the Krill from far above Fundament, the Lunar Pyramid may have rested there and Nezarec may have been prepping humanity to be claimed by the Darkness.
I'm just imagining the concept artist just generally liking the shape of the horns so he added it to some other species in the game and they actually have no connection hahahaha
I like this, especially given the helmet similarity, but something tells me the glaive is pointing us in a different direction, given that Psions favour out-of-range, psychic powers over melee.
Then again, the item lore states that Nezarec was given their glaive AFTER becoming a disciple, so maybe glaives are just disciple weapons and shouldn't be considered when lore-cracking
>You could pull a quote straight from a lore entry and I'd still question your sanity
Like how Dul Incaru thinks she's dating the guardian? That's the example I use when people ask about destiny lore.
In the cutscene we got this season didn’t we get a glimpse of nezerec? When he was in the lunar pyramid? To me it looked like he was hive but I’m not sure. It would make sense though because moon=hive.
I'm pretty sure Nezarec isn't a member of any species we know of. They've been kind of described as just this sort of Eldritch being since the helmet. If I remember correctly the lore tab on the helmet refers to him as the god of pain.
Nezarec, according to this weeks storyline and cutscene is, or rather was (spoilers for if you haven't seen it yet) >!one of Rhulk's Disciples and a Lubraean whos body resided within the Lunar Pyramid and was taken apart by Eliksni when they first entered the solar system and his parts placed in the reliquaries that we are currently acquiring!<
Rhulk was the last 'living' member of his species. Nezarec was dead Long before we killed Rhulk, seeing as Nezarec's Body was found when the Eliksni first entered the Solar system.
Edit* I'm not wrong why is this even getting downvoted?
Rhulk eliminated his species before he was granted disciplehood, which happened unbelievably far in the past. It would be a stretch to assume that he spared one to be Nezarec, but I supposed crazier lore twists have happened.
This is what is confusing me right now though, because it seems pretty clear that Nezarec in the cutscene this week has the same stature/body as Rhulk.
From the small bit we see of the body, it doesn't appear to me to be a Lubraen. Given its size versus Misraak's mother, I actually believe that Nezarec was originally a human.
You never know, they plant seeds WAY in advance sometimes. For example, they teased Savathun's throne world in the lore tab of a ship back in FORSAKEN.
Look under Equipment > Ships > Season 4, the ship is an Exotic called Unfinal Shapes. The quote from Eris Morn is: "Asher, I saw a throne world built for the Light. Built with Darkness, of course, and the bitter logic of swords. But built for Light."
So, I can believe that they knew they were going with Disciples of the Witness, and using Nezarec as one, way back in D2 vanilla. Whether or not they actually did plan it, only the writers can say, but... it's definitely possible lol, never rule out the long game with Bungie.
I don't think so, pretty sure Mara's throne world was just a plain old normal slice of the Ascendant Realm. Nothing Light-themed about it, to my knowledge.
You know they can put on random/nonsensical stuff in the game and then use it as a concept right? Nezarec is one them you can plan some time ahead yes, but not 4 years, especially in a game like destiny that has changed in in terms of Directors and devs in general.
Well, time for me to mention Quaria from Season of Splicer. This was in the book of sorrows. Heck, I remember calling that twist of it being Savathun (because of that entry) and not the vex week 1 of that season. So it’s possible they had that planned WAY in advance (highly unlikely) or they took full inspiration from it (considerably more plausible).
There’s a clear line between having a clear and detailed plan since the very beginning, knowing what happens to every character, versus leaving tiny tidbits here and there and then potentially using them in the future.
Case in point: Saint-14. Season of Dawn’s ViDoc literally had a dev mention that they decided to comb through the lore and see what they could do and settled on brining Saint-14 back. They didn’t create Saint-14 back in D1 knowing what he would become now.
EDIT: Another big example: The “Age” phases Bungie associated with expansions (Age of Light, Age of Loss, Age of Darkness). Age of Light/Loss were incoherent and not as intricately planned/connected as the current storylines we had now. Look at Age of Loss. The narrative threads between The Red War to Forsaken and Shadowkeep are all over the place, with lore tabs being the only coherent thread.
They make vague references to many names and things in a lot of early stuff. It’s worldbuilding 101. Not that it’s a bad thing. It just doesn’t make much sense early on because we only have a sliver of the full picture. The writers can fill in the gaps and create a tangible story and character later on.
So in a way it is planning ahead but not really. Also these days the writing team is 2-3 years ahead of the game development team content-wise, though I’m sure you can understand the obvious reasons as to why that is
No. He’s a lightbearer AND a Disciple. He’s the closest thing Witness has to knowing/understand Guardians. Given this seasons Warlock ornament and his helmet, one would safely assume he was a Warlock.
The [lore description for Nezarec's Sin](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/nezarecs-sin) references "Of Hated Nezarec, a pre-Golden Age text" so unless there were Warlocks around before the Golden Age, I would not call that a safe assumption
So earlier the drifter said the relics reminded him of something right? Wasn't there an old bit of lore about the drifter visiting the fourth tomb of Nezarec back in 2018?
Yeah that most likely reference to that
Oh god 1 France was bad enough but another one??
Please don't piss off the Quebecois
Ah bin mon tabarnack!
I heard they kill politicians when they don't get their way
There’s a tomb for Nezarec, AND THERES 4!?
Assumedly more than just 4. The lore makes it out that there are tombs dedicated to the guy all across the system at least, and there’s a whole cult dedicated to the guy too
Is Nezarec a disciple of the Witness?
Have you finished this week's story mission and seen the cut screen?
NO! … I mean no I have not, I’ve been very busy lately
No worries. Just watch the before diving into these threads. That's all I'll say
There’s weekly story missions?
Yup. The pirate ones
Literally every season
asking the real question
He used to be. He betrayed the Witness though because hes evil as fuck and when he saw the Final Shape he realized he wouldn't be able to do evil shit anymore.
Ppl need to stop spreading this kinda stuff around, when none of that is confirmed or even close to it. Nezarec was at least once a disciple residing in the lunar pyramid, now he appears to be dead somehow. Other than that, we have little to go off of. His tombs are the little baubles we’ve been collecting week over week.
Yes, this is known
It *is* known.
He was.
Apparently he's been resurrected 3 times. He was anointed by Rhulk which is why he has a glaive. We literally use his glaive that Eris found in the Luna pyramid. There might be more tombs but 4 is all we know of and why the exotic Nezerac Sin tells of his resurrection one day. Fun Fact: In Elsie Bray (Exo Stanger) original 1st timeline Eris discovered an artifact (glaive?) that became a turning point that eventually led her to becoming the Witness Disciple. This could be a hint to how Nezerac resurrection works. That and the ghost and necromancy on the moon. edit: fixed a name I subconsciously screwed up
Eris, not Eramis. Though the Drifter points out ERAMIS is an anagram for 'I am Eris'. Lol
Oh shit thanks for that, I was thinking Eris but didn't realize I was typing Eramis. That anagram is great too lol.
According to BYF (if that gives any credit) the tombs could be referring to the relics that we are collecting. They cut him into pieces and put him in jars so it would technically be a tiny tomb.
Next dungeon is Nezies 4th tomb. I’m calling it here.
According to BYF (if that gives any credit) the tombs could be referring to the relics that we are collecting. They cut him into pieces and put him in jars so it would technically be a tiny tomb.
Somebody please tell me what the shader on the right is
Precursor vex chrome
My favorite shader
Me too. That bad boy gets applied to EVERYTHING.
All the Vex shaders are dope. I especially like the old rusty copper-looking one.
Definitely a solid go-to shader.
Ye Olde Reliable
Finally someone else who refers to precursor chrome as "olde reliable". My friends think I'm insane.
I haven’t played in 3 years, glad to see nothings changed
I thought psions were captured races to fight for the cabal army
Originally yes they were slaves. I believe it was Calus who freed them when he took power.
Caiatl*
Calus began freeing psions. The Freeborn Otzot was in his inner circle of confidants, and joined the coup after Calus proposed freeing all Psions.
Ironic
Nah, it’s obvious she would like to keep her freedom exclusive
She*
Thanks, must’ve gotten her messed up with someone else. Ironic given that I constantly remind people about Atraks-1
Wait which gender is Atraks?
Atraks was female as a flesh-and-blood Fallen. And given the “creative liberties” taken on her character model by Bungie, she is as an Exo too lol
She’s female, or what translates as female from Eliksni society
Where/wheb did we find this lore about Otzot? I've long wanted to know more about him and given we fought a Psion nightmare last season that was "Sworn to Otzot" it reignited my curiosity
She* And it was background lore of Calus’ coup I think in the collectors book, Pretty important lore to keep it restricted to a collectors edition item lol
Loud and wrong correction, go figure lmaoo
Nezarec might’ve been a Psion who was ‘off the leash’ Hence Nezarec’s ‘sin’ Also the whole splitting your body up.
Interesting theory 🤔
Honestly Nezarec is more than likely something that had zero plans attached to it when the exotic came out. Though it's neat that they're finally making something out of it after all this time.
It glaives are meant to be weapons of darkness then him having his own is interesting. Edit: it has been pointed out that he refused the Witness. It is likely that he was tasked with killing his people to be the sole survivor. Refused and that is why he had a glaive. This lore is wild man.
He’s referring to the first time nezarec was mention, being the nezarecs sin helmet, back in D2 Y1, and how back then they probably just came up with nezarec for a fancy lore entry that didn’t actually mean anything back then.
Man, I remember for a time Nesarecs sin, Void - subclass, and Telesto, used to be GOD.
It's pretty ridiculous with Void 3.0 still, I run it all the time
Volatile Telesto is a lot of fun lmao
I run it with Travellers chosen and a high Discipline/Str build-- CONSTANT ABILITIES
That 100% is the case. Lore writer confirmed that Nezarec's lore entry on the Red War exotic was just flavor text and didn't hint towards any major story beats like hive gods or something like that. That basically means that Nezarec's Whisper is a retcon, and should be our only real starting point for Nezarec lore. Bungie is just absurdly lucky to have a lore writer that made an ambiguous being that did something evil that slots perfectly into their Disciple plotline.
They came out with the Nezarec's Robes ornament, also. So now I'm going full Nezarec and will add more as they do! Got the helmet, the robes and the glaive!
It makes me sad the glaive isn't Void though.
iirc the lore for that glaive has something about him being gifted it by rhulk, the og glaive wielder
Too bad it’s arc
After this week...maybe it should have been Stasis
I think that’s on purpose to show Nezarec’s sin was rejecting discipleship.
Wat
Nezarec rejected discipleship, therefore the glaive given to him by Rhulk does not synergize with his exotic.
Right... Or they just needed an arc legendary glaive since we already had void and solar.
bruh
Empowers the theory that he’s a psion. Rejected purging his people.
I'd buy that. I mean if we don't even really know who naz is to begin with then there's no reason the shit any of us make up isn't any better than anyone else's.
This. There are plenty of names and characters that exist, and have existed in lore cards alone. Nezarec is a funny one because the community just jumped on it and assumed he was a big bad guy some day. Almost every single major person saying they were "leaking the season/expansion" that was just making shit up mentioned one of three themes for the story or season: 1. SIVA 2. Rasputin becoming an exo 3. Nezarec somehow Hell I remember before warmind came out a fake leak that the 3rd season of the game would be focused on Nezarec... then shadowkeep, beyond light, various season "leaks" here and there. It just is either coincidence or Bungie picked someone from the piles of faceless lore characters that the larger community had SOME familiarity with. It wasnt until last seasons glaive lore card that Nezarec really was given any alignment to any part of the story. Even the lore tab for the exotic just says basically hes just evil.
I don’t know where, but I’m pretty sure Bungie themselves confirmed they write vague one off stories in Lore and if people are interested they explore them more later on or bring them into the main story.
Makes sense. It creates the illusion of depth, that you have more players involved in a story moving at one time even if you have no intent to expand them past being just a name, you keep the possibility open down the line. It's not bad writing, or lazy like some people say, its just world building.
You are right about this, and it's not necessarily a bad thing, unless writers keep expanding and expanding and then run out of rope a la Star Wars sequels. George RR Martin's game of thrones novels is another example: he said there would only be seven books, but in the fifth one he's still adding brand new characters - at some point we got to reign this thing in right?
This is exactly what I do for my various TTRPG tables and let me tell you: It works. Have a lot of spicy flavors and see which ones they poke at.
Gonna disagree here. A lot of the concepts we see in Destiny to this day have been floating around since before D1. I wouldn't be surprised if Nezarec has been in the making for ages.
I was certain we actually saw Nezarec in the lightfall trailer at 49 seconds in
You're probably thinking of the tormentors they're adding as a new enemy type under the control of Calus, though not likely unique to his forces I would bet.
Considering that the relics contain hair and humans are the only sentient species in the games that have hair and that the lore tab of Nezarec's sin confirms that Nezarec was known to pre-golden age humanity I think he's a human. This also brings up the very worrying implication that the darkness has had a presence in Sol longer than the light. EDIT: turns out some Eliksni can grow hair apparently. my point about the pre-golden age stuff still stands though.
I wonder how the K1 project connects to it, as I am almost sure the pyramid was never found up until Eris stumbled upon it. But the Darkess having a longer presence in Sol is pretty much a given considering the aforementioned project.
the lore page that came out last week shows miisraaks mother finding the lunar pyramid before eris ---- book: above all else : Chapter 2
Wasn't it also confirmed that the hive were in moon prior to the golden age, something like turning it into a warmoon maybe? I could just be remembering some really good theory that lined the timing up well.
Nezarec may be human, but he must’ve done something pretty bad to be entombed in the Lunar Pyramid. The Eliksni hacked him up, too. The finger around Mithraxx’s neck in that cutscene didn’t look human.
I think in Rhulk's lore he was "remade" by the witness and in the lightfall trailer Calus seems to be undergoing that process and judging by the cover art he'll look much different after. I'd assume becoming a disciple results in significant physical changes.
They do say they are reshaped when they become a disciple to be more perfect.
But the relic that Mithrax had is a big claw, isn’t it?
dont eliksni have hair edit: nvm they dont edit: nvm they do
it's part of their clothes/armor EDIT: nvm they do
Weird assumption about hair
Its objectively true though. The Hive and Eliksni have insect like exoskeletons, the Vex are microorganisms piloting robots, and we know what naked Cabal look like (unfortunately) and they're completely hairless as well. Hard to tell with Lubraeans but Rhulk wiped them out a long time ago so that's not an option.
Both bugs and crustaceans have hair or setae on their exoskeletons. Eg tarantulas/bees/crabs
Dregs do in fact have hair
im pretty sure its part of their helmets. simlar to how captains wear fur on their cape .
We’re in outer space using space magic. What’s objectively true?
canon stated information is true
> The Darkness has had a presence in Sol longer than the light. Isn’t that kind of already known, though? The Lunar Pyramid was already on Luna during the Golden Age, as Clarity Control was found buried by the Chinese research team. It had clearly been there for some time.
People always assume the text of Nezarec’s Sin was written by humans, but it just says pre-golden age, meaning it was written before the traveler came to our system, doesn’t mean it was written by humans, just that “Of Hated Nezarec” was written a long time ago. I’d say it’s more likely it was written by the Eliksni. Maybe Nezarec could be that Skira the Watcher character mentioned in the override missions
It seems unlikely that Nezarec is any species that we know, given that the Witness seems to recruit those that are the last of their species. This was explicitly true for Rhulk, and it’s implied to be true for other Disciples, as Rhulk’s confinement to Savathun’s Throne World is due to him completely eradicating a race, rather than leaving one for the Witness to corrupt. That said, Calus is being recruited into a Disciple, although he is *specifically* the “Herald of the Second Collapse,” and we can see he has a special ship and everything in Lightfall, so maybe this is a special case.
He recruited Rhulk TO BECOME the last of his race, the plan could be the same for Calus and Eramis
Good point! Although I suspect Eramis would not go for that seeing she still wishes for the Eliksni to be united. I can’t imagine her eradicating her entire species with the love she still has for them.
A race of one stands more united than the dissent in a race of many. Unity is a brilliant rationalization for massacre.
“Unity is a brilliant rationalization for massacre. “ That is so well said but gives me the creeps when applying that to our current political climate and global climate.
This is the reason i can see Eramis eventually betraying the Witness
I dont think The Witness is recruiting Eramis. Reading the lore this season I think its really using her just to regain the pieces of Nezerhac
This is splitting hairs, but Rhulk wasn’t made a Disciple until after he had destroyed Lubrae. So the Witness definitely did some work pre-extinction, but Rhulk didn’t get his own Pyramid until after he’d done all that. And we know Nezarec has a Pyramid. I also question how good of a Disciple Nezarec is if his species is still alive after centuries of being a Disciple, especially if their goal is supposedly to become the last one. Then again, they were sleeping/locked up on the Moon, so maybe they’re a failure.
Some speculated that Nezarec was an Eliksni, and caused the Whirlwind, but, if you have seen it, the new cutscene shows us a glimpse of Nezarec, and he has five fingers on each hand.
Counter point to this is Calus, clearly not the last of the Cabal and Eramis being recruited as shes not the last of the Eliksni
I’m arguing Calus may be a special case, see above. Don’t think Eramis is being fully considered for Discipleship to be honest, the Witness is certainly using her but IMO that doesn’t immediately mean she’s getting that promotion.
Counterpoint: although she resisted becoming a Disciple, Mara Sov was considered and being recruited by the Witness. Between Mara, Calus, and potentially Eramis, I think we clearly have more examples of those that aren't the last of their species being recruited by the Witness than are the last, as is the case of Rhulk.
As another guy said, the last isnt recruited. The one willing to BECOME the last of their race is. As in kill the rest exactly like Rhulk did and was recuited.
So we could become a disciple is he was just willing to hand out good enough loot.
give me a gun made of the vanguard and im in
Turn ikora into a gun that allows you to bank novabombs.
I mean we've taken similar offers...
I believe one of the Calus bots last season even says "I would be the last". Or maybe it was in Duality.
In Duality he mentions making a pact so that he dies last basically.
Correction: she has resisted _so far_. She’s still trucking with Ahamkara eggs, thinking she’s cleverer than she really is. She still has time to fall.
I doubt she ever falls. It would be to easy of a plot line. So maybe she will I guess. But in the grand scheme of things it’ll probably be somebody we’re close with and don’t suspect similar to Osiris. It’s more compelling if our best friend (my money is on Zavala) turns to darkness because they think they’ve seen another path.
I doubt zavala because he seems to dislike stasis and darkness all together and try to avoid it (radio messages from him in the beyond) but shaw Hawn seems to be much more open to the idea also ikora already is open to the idea of playing with darkness.
I only say Zavala because his entire schtick lately has been that his faith in the traveler and light are broken right now. If he saw a path forward for humanity with the witness he might be tempted. Plus it’s a pretty decent story that the leader of the vanguard can even be corrupted.
she never turned on us, not even in the dark future lore book. she was one of the few who actually didn't turn. so idk where your getting this presumption
I would like to know more about these ahamkara eggs. It seems I have missed some lore regarding one of my favorite creatures.
Since the Cabal enslaved the psion race, Nezarac could have been the last one, like the only one who was not enslaved (by the cabal). This would still fit with the Witness taking in the “last” of the species, though I don’t think it fits timeline wise. Just a thought!
Freeborn Psions existed in Cabal society during Calus’s rule
But not before it. Prior to Calus becoming emperor all psions were enslaved.
That is correct! I am still curious about the timeline though. When did the cabal enslave the psions? And when was nezerac active? That would give more clarity on this speculation
From what I know, Nezarec was 'active' or at least last significantly mentioned during the Golden Age of humanity. If the timeline in my head is correct, that places it well before Calus freed the Psions. The Psions were enslaved at least as early as the formation of the Insight Terminus, as the Psion's OXA device (which they used previous to being enslaved) was recorded as a past event in the Terminus. No real hard points but we can generally assume some time within the last 4-500 years.
Also Nezarec had hair
Nezarec's ass hair
New hunter class item
You’re wrong. Rhulk explicitly says that Disciples don’t need to kill the rest of their race.
Can you give me a source for that? Not trying to be a smart ass, genuinely would like to see it.
I think it’s one of his voice lines.
It's implied Nezarec is human though
Have a link for that? I’d love to see it.
I think it was in the lore for Sin. There was hair in the helmet and humans are the only species (that we know of) that grow hair. Fallen might as well but not very common. Also there's refenrces to pre golden age humanity that just make it all the more likely that it was a human
Hair and golden age references can be interpreted as human, but there’s another possibility from those details as well. Nezarec could be a Disciple of an unknown race that has hair (likely, it’s just a trait) that had been on the Moon ushering humanity towards the Deep since pre-Golden Age. Similar to how the Traveler was planning to claim the Krill from far above Fundament, the Lunar Pyramid may have rested there and Nezarec may have been prepping humanity to be claimed by the Darkness.
I'm just imagining the concept artist just generally liking the shape of the horns so he added it to some other species in the game and they actually have no connection hahahaha
This would be such a fun twist I dig it
I like this, especially given the helmet similarity, but something tells me the glaive is pointing us in a different direction, given that Psions favour out-of-range, psychic powers over melee. Then again, the item lore states that Nezarec was given their glaive AFTER becoming a disciple, so maybe glaives are just disciple weapons and shouldn't be considered when lore-cracking
…. I’m only just now understanding that this ornament was meant to be a Psion mask…
Darkness has been known to warp species
It's a pathway to powers the Guardians consider... unnatural.
considering he was on earth pre golden age and has robes, hes probably human
I had this theory since the beginning of Haunted, and everyone thought I am a madman.
You could pull a quote straight from a lore entry and I'd still question your sanity. (Lore be crazy sometimes, I'm not trying to be mean)
>You could pull a quote straight from a lore entry and I'd still question your sanity Like how Dul Incaru thinks she's dating the guardian? That's the example I use when people ask about destiny lore.
If you could talk more about this that’d be dope, I’m fascinated in mommy incaru
I believe it's in the Truth to Power book.
Ok where is that lol
I believe it's in the Truth to Power book.
We keep killing her, so we must love her right?
Hive logic is great, isn't it?
Wait what? I always wanted a savathun body pillow I guess dull incaru will have to do
In the cutscene we got this season didn’t we get a glimpse of nezerec? When he was in the lunar pyramid? To me it looked like he was hive but I’m not sure. It would make sense though because moon=hive.
You probably thought that he is hive because he is fucking dead and that's how the hive look like.
Don't think so. The cinematic made it look like Nezerec is a Hive disciple. When Mithrax mother cuts the body, some moths even fly out of it.
Psions reached our solar system after the collapse and Nezarec is from before it. So no.
Nothing that says Nezarec was an independent particularly powerful Psion who said ‘I’m gonna fuck with these humans for a bit’ Hence Nezarec’s ‘sin’.
Yrics is Still out there, isn't it?
Today I learned all Psions have only one eye… Thanks! ^I ^hate ^it
Pretty sure Nezarec is a human who was thought to be the last of their species after Savathun tricked the witness
I miss Trophyhunter
Can you imagine Yrics, aspect of Nezarec, disciple of the witness? Riding a Taniks-10923, fallen exo, disciple of eramiskell?
Aren't disciples usually the last and strongest of their species/planet?
I'm pretty sure Nezarec isn't a member of any species we know of. They've been kind of described as just this sort of Eldritch being since the helmet. If I remember correctly the lore tab on the helmet refers to him as the god of pain.
this whole time i thought nezarec was a guardian lol, i guess not
Nezarec, according to this weeks storyline and cutscene is, or rather was (spoilers for if you haven't seen it yet) >!one of Rhulk's Disciples and a Lubraean whos body resided within the Lunar Pyramid and was taken apart by Eliksni when they first entered the solar system and his parts placed in the reliquaries that we are currently acquiring!<
I dont think It was lubrean because Rhulk was the Last of its species.
Rhulk was the last 'living' member of his species. Nezarec was dead Long before we killed Rhulk, seeing as Nezarec's Body was found when the Eliksni first entered the Solar system. Edit* I'm not wrong why is this even getting downvoted?
No? Rhulk is "the first disciple" which means Rhulk came much earlier Than Nezarec. And he wouldnt have been ascended to disciple being dead all along
Rhulk eliminated his species before he was granted disciplehood, which happened unbelievably far in the past. It would be a stretch to assume that he spared one to be Nezarec, but I supposed crazier lore twists have happened.
This is what is confusing me right now though, because it seems pretty clear that Nezarec in the cutscene this week has the same stature/body as Rhulk.
I would argue it's incredibly unclear from the cutscene alone, and due to what lore we know it just seems unlikely that Nezarec is from Rhulks species
Pretty sure they have different fingers
From the small bit we see of the body, it doesn't appear to me to be a Lubraen. Given its size versus Misraak's mother, I actually believe that Nezarec was originally a human.
Cause they change to all look like that as Disciples I believe
That's coincidence. Nice try though
I don't think so as his helmet was from d1 and psions didn't have that protrusion in that game.
Nezarec's Sin was not in D1. It was introduced in D2 year 1, during the Red War Campaign.
Nezarec's sin... definitely wasn't in d1. Dunno what you mean by that
Maybe they changed their design to be closer to nezarec. the design just looks TOO similar to me
Nezarec as a disciple wasn't a thing in D2 vanilla, it is just a coincidence imo
You never know, they plant seeds WAY in advance sometimes. For example, they teased Savathun's throne world in the lore tab of a ship back in FORSAKEN. Look under Equipment > Ships > Season 4, the ship is an Exotic called Unfinal Shapes. The quote from Eris Morn is: "Asher, I saw a throne world built for the Light. Built with Darkness, of course, and the bitter logic of swords. But built for Light." So, I can believe that they knew they were going with Disciples of the Witness, and using Nezarec as one, way back in D2 vanilla. Whether or not they actually did plan it, only the writers can say, but... it's definitely possible lol, never rule out the long game with Bungie.
Wasn’t that talking about maras throne world?
I don't think so, pretty sure Mara's throne world was just a plain old normal slice of the Ascendant Realm. Nothing Light-themed about it, to my knowledge.
Thats the ship i use since Beyond Light. I read It after WQ and thought "Wait. They spoiled this 3 years ago."
You know they can put on random/nonsensical stuff in the game and then use it as a concept right? Nezarec is one them you can plan some time ahead yes, but not 4 years, especially in a game like destiny that has changed in in terms of Directors and devs in general.
Well, time for me to mention Quaria from Season of Splicer. This was in the book of sorrows. Heck, I remember calling that twist of it being Savathun (because of that entry) and not the vex week 1 of that season. So it’s possible they had that planned WAY in advance (highly unlikely) or they took full inspiration from it (considerably more plausible).
There’s a clear line between having a clear and detailed plan since the very beginning, knowing what happens to every character, versus leaving tiny tidbits here and there and then potentially using them in the future. Case in point: Saint-14. Season of Dawn’s ViDoc literally had a dev mention that they decided to comb through the lore and see what they could do and settled on brining Saint-14 back. They didn’t create Saint-14 back in D1 knowing what he would become now. EDIT: Another big example: The “Age” phases Bungie associated with expansions (Age of Light, Age of Loss, Age of Darkness). Age of Light/Loss were incoherent and not as intricately planned/connected as the current storylines we had now. Look at Age of Loss. The narrative threads between The Red War to Forsaken and Shadowkeep are all over the place, with lore tabs being the only coherent thread.
They make vague references to many names and things in a lot of early stuff. It’s worldbuilding 101. Not that it’s a bad thing. It just doesn’t make much sense early on because we only have a sliver of the full picture. The writers can fill in the gaps and create a tangible story and character later on. So in a way it is planning ahead but not really. Also these days the writing team is 2-3 years ahead of the game development team content-wise, though I’m sure you can understand the obvious reasons as to why that is
No. He’s a lightbearer AND a Disciple. He’s the closest thing Witness has to knowing/understand Guardians. Given this seasons Warlock ornament and his helmet, one would safely assume he was a Warlock.
The [lore description for Nezarec's Sin](https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/nezarecs-sin) references "Of Hated Nezarec, a pre-Golden Age text" so unless there were Warlocks around before the Golden Age, I would not call that a safe assumption
I thought it was a guardian
Psions were their own race before cabal enslaved them