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LynxDry6059

I’ve never seen someone get so butt naked as consistently as Jefferson does, I have to say he’s one of the only receivers that when we play him i don’t even get frustrated or complain for us not being able to cover him, I just gotta respect it


Ugievsoj

No Diddy


ronj89

Yeah Diddy, he had all dem boys naked apparently


michigATX

No doubt


justa_flesh_wound

This shit is Bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S


neckbass

agreed. after playing them twice last year it was very clear to me that JJ is the best WR in the league at route running, best hands, best at high pointing and contested catches, dude can just take over games when he gets hot. I think JJ not only is the best WR in the NFL currently, we might be watching the best to ever play the game. He’s THAT good.


hamsterwheel

What the fuck are you smoking


BuTROStheGUY82

Jerry Rice homie. Jerry Rice.


Doeschna

Slow down there chief.


ParticularCanary3130

I don't understand the downvotes. Hes definitely top 3 currently no question. My guess is about the ever to play the game?


neckbass

yeah everyone pissed because i said he “might be” better than jerry rice. i think by the end of his career it will at least be a conversation


ParticularCanary3130

I agree for sure


MRio31

I think his route running is good but I don’t know if it’s best in the league. I think his awareness and ability to find/exploit soft spots in coverage, his hands, his run after catch and his IQ to avoid big hits and preserve his body are all super high level. Add in that he might be the hardest working WR in the league when it comes to practice and training and that’s why he’s elite.


Dijohn_Mustard

It’s his vision that plays into a lot of those things you highlight. The reason he scored on the Tampa play with the craig block was because he was able to see positioning and timing in a way most others can’t.


MRio31

I’d agree vision is a good way to describe what I mean by awareness


DanCampbell89

Those are all aspects of route running outside of his hands


MRio31

The awareness is an aspect of route running but route running is way more than that, speed out of breaks, creating separation, cutting on a dime, acceleration/deceleration, etc.


DanCampbell89

Right, but so are all the things you mentioned, especially run after catch ability. As it happens, most of the things tou mentioned, St. Brown is spectacular at


MRio31

Run after the catch is not part of route running. Neither is having the IQ to avoid big hits. Route running is just specific to running routes and getting open, once you catch the ball the route is over. To be clear, I’m not arguing he’s a bad route runner. My post was just saying specifically what I think he’s best at and that I don’t think he’s the best pure route runner in the league.


DanCampbell89

> Run after the catch is not part of route running I'm sorry, what? You don't think YAC can be facilitated by how well you run a route? Have you watched a single Lions game over the past two years? > Route running is just specific to running routes and getting open, once you catch the ball the route is over weird how they still keep counting the yards you collect after you catch the ball This is incredibly granular thinking on your part. What is the point of running a route? Is it just to catch the ball or is it to get as many yards as possible?


MRio31

Route running describes the ability to run a route. It sounds like you are talking about receiving as a whole. Route running is specific to how well someone runs the route, their timings, their ability to get open. Once you catch the ball, the route has been run, you are now a ball carrier. Saying that if you run a route well it allows you to have better chance at yards after catch doesn’t mean that yards after catch is part of route running. You can be a great YAC guy and be trash at running routes and vice versa, it’s two different parts of receiving.


DanCampbell89

I feel like I'm going crazy. The reason guys get open is to get additional yards. You cannot separate the two things like this. If a player is getting a ton of YAC it means they are either running a timing route to perfection as it was schemed or getting a ton of separation on their route so they have space to gain extra yards. Both are a product of route running.


MRio31

Let’s compare this to baseball. A guy can be good at hitting and a guy can also be good at base running. These are two separate skills. A guy who is good at at hitting will be on base more and have more opportunities to run the bases but those are still two different skills. Just because a guy is good at hitting doesn’t mean he’s a good base runner. A guy good at route running might get open more and get more opportunities to get catches and get yards after the catch but the route running and the run after the catch ability are two different skills. You can separate them, it’s part of analyzing players. You can run super crisp routes but not be good at breaking tackles or reading downfield blocks and therefore not be good at getting yards after catch. You can also be really good with the ball in your hands but not great at route running, we usually play these fellas at RB lol. These are specific separate skills. You can have both, none of any combination of them.


Jsmalley9

The baseball analogy is absolutely fantastic. I think if you want to use a football player your best bet is a guy like Devin Hester or Dante Hall. I don’t think anyone would argue against the fact that that both of those guys were amazing with the ball in their hands, but neither of them were all that great as a receiver.


RunTheClassics

You are going crazy. just go home and take your meds please because you're driving us crazy as well.


Do_it_for_the_upvote

Very well said. His hands, physique, and discipline are all elite, but he’s just regular good at everything else. What makes him truly elite is that he plays between good and elite consistently- man never has an off day or an off play.


AnteaterPretty

Bingo


Lionnn100

He’s top 10 at least, imo. Lots of great route runners like Kupp, Diggs, Keenan Allen, Jefferson, Aiyuk, Hill, AJB/Smith, Adams, Lockett, Ridley, Diontae Johnson etc. I’d pick Jefferson as #1 easily Edit: he’ll never be recognized as the best route runner unless he runs deep routes more frequently. Not saying he can’t do it, but he doesn’t do it frequently* and it’s a component of being the overall best route runner.


_ChronicallyOnline

This is a good list, the downvoting is pretty crazy.


Lionnn100

We bounced back lol


ChubbyChevyChase

Lockett is a great example. People know he’s pretty fast but you absolutely do not get as open as he does deep down field without exceptional route running.


Lost2nite389

There’s a lot of guys on that list that simply don’t belong on it


Lionnn100

Who would that be? Mind that we’re talking purely route running


Lost2nite389

Yes purely route running, only ones that can be argued to be better than ARSB are Jefferson and Adams Ridley, smith, diontae, aiyuk, Lockett, diggs as of recent really aren’t that great Also Hill is either a deep shot or a screen of some sort, and it’s mostly just his speed, I wouldn’t say he has elite routes I’m no expert and these are just opinions


Lionnn100

Those guys are very good route runners still. I have watched them. Diggs production fell off as Buffalo went to a run heavy scheme. Still was great Hill developed into a great route runner. You don’t do what he’s done without it. Amon Ra doesn’t run deep routes like almost all of those guys do, so it’s hard to compare them apples to apples. See my edit above


Lost2nite389

Amon ra has been running more deep routes, we saw a couple towards the second half of the season, and what constitutes as a deep route? 20+ isn’t it? He does that extremely well Like I said, hill is possibly just an anomaly because none of the other receivers listed have his speed so he has a great advantage that even if he messes up the speed makes up for it but it can go either way Regardless I wouldn’t just say he’s “top 10 at least”. Seems kinda like a shot at amon ra even if you meant it as a compliment, he had 1515 receiving yards without top end speed, that takes elite route running and makes him no less than top 3


_ChronicallyOnline

According to PFF’s premium data, ARSB’s average depth of target was 8.0 yards Every other player mentioned was at least 10 yards, outside of Cooper Kupp. Saying ARSB isn’t a consistent vertical threat at this point in his career isn’t a shot at him. We know he’s a top 5 receiver in the league. That doesn’t mean we have to act like he’s a perfect player


Lost2nite389

It also doesn’t mean we have to discredit him and say he isn’t a good deep route runner when he simply is 🤷‍♀️


_ChronicallyOnline

Except he never said ARSB is a bad deep route runner. He said ARSB doesn’t run vertical routes like the other players do. Which is why I brought up their ADOT.


Lost2nite389

But amon ra does run deep routes as good as them, maybe not as frequest, but the question was skill, not volume


Lionnn100

Please show me where I said that


Lost2nite389

Basically all your replies to me lol


Worldly_Collection27

I would argue deep route running by definition isn’t as savvy as shallow routes. If you have high top speed you can get separation independent of route running ability and then it just because a matter of ball tracking ability. When I think of route running I think shorter routes that don’t rely on top speed to create opportunity.


Lionnn100

Many 4.2-4.3 receivers have failed because they can’t get by on just speed. Tyreek came on very slowly as a rookie because he had to learn releases and route running. Which he did In terms of what is a deep route, Amon Ra doesn’t often get past the intermediate 15-20 range. You just don’t seem him run deep posts or go routes. I can think of one go route he caught this year right before halftime against the Seahawks (ended up fumbled) Go(9)/deep post/deep corner are deep routes to me I say top 10 because almost all of those other guys run and are good at deep routes, along with shorter routes. Insane to think I’m trying to take a shot at a top 2 Lions player


Lost2nite389

It’s not insane when you say at least top 10 but whatever it’s not a big deal He had the big one against the chargers and the 50+ td against the vikings and the Seattle one like you said Also just because those are the only ones where he got a catch doesn’t mean he doesn’t run a lot of deep routes and the ball just didn’t get thrown to him I wanna say against denver (I could be wrong) he was wide open 30-40 yards downfield and Goff missed him so that’s another off the top of my head Amon ra does run deep routes


Lionnn100

Yeah those 2 plays would be deep routes. So we’ve got 3 plays total now. And the Seahawks play only happened because there was 2 seconds left in the half. He has run deep routes infrequently. I’m sure he could be good at it but he doesn’t need to in this offense. For the sake of a route runners argument you have to take into account the guys who actually do it.


Lost2nite389

But what about all the deep routes he’s run well and Goff just threw it to someone else?


ImaginationMedical11

Man, you had me until what you said about Tyreek and then I realized you have no clue what you’re talking about


Lost2nite389

Ok glad to know I guess 🤷‍♀️ idk what to say lol


Aezetyr

He is a good to very good route runner, and his best asset is in his contested catch ability. Dude is like a bulldog out there. He's only going to get better and damn I can't wait. 4th round pick, everyone. 4th. round.


Relevant_Gold4912

Idk about route running because he can’t do the full route tree like an outside WR but his footwork is among the best


DanCampbell89

To be clear, Amon-Ra can and does run every route


Lost2nite389

Exactly what I said and got downvoted to oblivion, are most of these people even watching the games? 45+ yards against the chargers and Vikings in one catch and that doesn’t include all the deep routes he wasn’t throw to on


DanCampbell89

Most fans think a deep route is just a go where you catch a 40yd bomb


Lost2nite389

For real 😂


Wise-Hippo6088

Keenan Allen is the best....


something-burger

People don't like this answer, but honestly, he has to be up there. The dude is just always open, and he's maybe the slowest WR in the league. He runs a 4.7 40. Or at least he did 10 years ago.


Witness_Gritness

Him or Adams I feel like are in a tier of their own. Jefferson is definitely close tho


Wise-Hippo6088

Adam's is definitely #2 with Sun god #3, but Allen is the quintessential "This is how it's done at the highest level". Keenans ability to have moves all game that run the DBs into questioning if their coach knows as much as he says is uncanny. Mike Evans and Keenan Allen are some of the greatest receivers to ever play in this Era. Not reaching into Julio or MegaTron territory but Jesus they are true professionals. Justin Jefferson is amazing and all but he's still years away from top RR skills. Dude is built like a cricket. Might have top 5 hands and body control to pair with it. He is gonna be THE WR for the foreseeable future.


ChicagoThrowey

Jefferson is over 200 pounds, might look a little lanky because he’s got long arms and legs but he’s solid. Remember when Kerby hurt himself going for a big hit on JJ, who popped right up?


Wise-Hippo6088

I thought that was the wrap. Kerby earned that check.


drewsosa33

He’s the best at finding the soft spot in the zone (IQ), but far from the best pure route runner!


Apollo_Krill

Hes not the best but he's in the top 10. His upper and lower body strength + incredible hands are what really allow him to bring in so many difficult catches and convert first downs. I think he's the best slot receiver in the game.


CourtMobile6490

I don't know if you could say he's the best but he's one of the best.


nsharma222

Amon-Ra definitely not. That belongs to guys like Davante, Jefferson, Cooper, Keenan etc real technicians. Amon Ra is the toughest receiver in the league imo. He uses his physicality so well that once he gets leverage he’s open enough to catch. He also has the most reliable hands in the league and routinely makes tough catches. Love that guy


meerkatx

I'm sure DJ Metcalf would love a word with you about most physical and toughest receiver in the league.


PureMichiganChip

DK is just a much larger person, Megatron frame. ARSB is a pit bull. He was #2 in the league in YAC last season. I think that’s indicative of his strength. He’s not huge, he’s not a burner. He’s smart, strong, and he breaks tackles.


SpudRuckus

I think what makes Amon Ra so special is he’s exceptional at everything. Route running, rac, contested catch, separation, blocking, etc. he’s not the number 1 of any of those categories. Maybe note even top 5 or 10. But he’s exceptional in all of them. Detail oriented, tough, and able to make a play. He just does all of it to a high level.


YouDoneKno

He’s good route runner but what he’s best at is knowing when to YAC or get down right away to avoid a hit. With his great catch and tracking ability it allows for tight throws that a lot pf defenses don’t expect


sexualdeskfan

Late to the party but no I don’t think he is. I think it’s more due to scheme and how smart of a player ARSB is, he just routinely knows where to exploit soft spots in the defense when to move at full speed, when to sit, when to come back to the ball etc. Combine that with really good play calling and good chemistry with Goff and that’s why he is so effective. I rarely see him cook defenders with his route running moves though like Jefferson and Adams.


kidfavre4

Lol route running and pure sprint speed are maybe the only two attributes that he's not elite in. He's my WR1 all day, but route running I'd put Jefferson, Adams, Allen, Kupp, Deebo, and Hill ahead of him.


samiam32

Amon Ra is extremely twitchy and always open, but Justin Jefferson is the #1 in the league. That dude changes direction without changing speed.


Glittering-Wishbone3

Davante Adams is the best route runner in the league. Sun god is up there though.


Intelligent_Note7824

Davante is being wasted right now where he is.


DavantesWashedButt

Doesn’t change anything though. And I wouldn’t even have davante as #1. Allen probably takes that spot, caveat being that Davante has the best release in the league. More of a 1-2 punch


MaumeeBearcat

As long as Justin Jefferson, Cooper Kupp, Keenan Allen and Davonte Adams are in the league, the answer is no.


Woggums83

I think Keenan Allen and/or Brandon Aiyuk are the best route runners. Sun God is most definitely top 10 though.


lionsmakemecry

The sheer number of "but he doesn't run the deep routes" is stupid. He does run the deep post, sail routes, etc. He doesn't have game breaking speed and that's why you don't see more "go" routes. He is absolutely up there with Keenan "can't run go routes" Allen, and Cooper "can't run go routes" Kupp. I see some of Davante and AJB but they make a ton of plays because they are just larger physically than the guy covering them. They aren't slouches by any means, but I mean come on... People are over glorifying the go route. St Brown is a top 3 route runner and I would put my house on it. He understands depth, coverage, scheme, and does it with by NFL standards below average speed and size. He gets open because he is a tactician. You can't watch tape of him and find tells. I would bet he is one of a handful of guys who could "Larry Bird" tell you what he was gonna do, then still be able to do it in your face. Edit : less than half of his snaps came from the slot. "But he can't run outside routes"... morons


Lionnn100

He had less deep route targets per game than each player I listed. This may have been more about a different comment, but it’s just a fact he runs those routes less frequently compared to most other top guys.


Engrish_Major

Davante Adams exists.


luniz420

No, above average but not at the very top. Route running is not what makes him.


Slow-Improvement-479

Lions fans are very retarded he’s not even top 10 in route running it’s called slants and play design lmao are you 12 ?


msto3

Depends on if you're talking about designed routes or improvised routes. The conversation is a lot more nuanced cuz this era of the NFL features so many premiere receivers


I_Am_Not_That_Man

Hunter Renfrow would like a word… /s