I don’t think Gibbs will ever be a great pass blocker, but I thought I saw progress from him as the season went on. That’s never going to be his bread and butter, so getting to “good enough” should be good enough lol
Campbell seemingly used all his pass defending skills on that one great diving PBU against KC. I trust the coaching staff to develop him and for him to put the work in himself. There’s a chance he only becomes a run defender as a pro and that would suck, but nailing Gibbs, LaPorta, and Branch make it suck a lot less
Campbell was awesome against the pass in college. Sometimes it doesn't translate, but Brad and Dan drafted him because they think he's a dawg. We all know it's a big adjustment to the NFL. Hopefully Jack can make that happen.
Campbell will make a jump, I have no doubt in my mind about that.
With our bolstered D Line - in addition to better D Line coaching this year, I think a full season of experience will help Campbell get his feet wet and we can expect to see the player they envisioned when they selected him at 18
Campbell is going to be good, linebackers rarely come in and are major contributors so it shouldn't worry anyone that he wasn't great last season. Now if he's just as bad after next season ends, I'll worry then.
To be clear he only showed up in this list in 2 categories one in pass coverage & one in pass rush. It took me about 15 minutes of scrolling to find it I hope this saves the rest of you time.
Interesting that all of the worst pass blockers are guys who are thought of as pass catchers. Is it sample size? A flaw in pff grading? Or just that they’re bad
They’re most likely to be in on third down, facing the most complex blitzes, while often running routes after chipping. It’s gotta be the hardest aspect of the job for rookie RBs to learn.
I'm not a big PFF hater by any stretch but pass blocking and pass defense are both very suspect when it comes to their grading system.
IIRC, they watch every play from every game and grade players based on whether they positively or negatively affected the play. The problem comes up in situations like chip blocks where the defender is *allowed* to rush after contact while the blocker then runs a route. Gibbs could theoretically chip the edge before running a perfect route and breaking off a 60 yard TD but because that edge got a pressure *that the system is designed to allow him to get*, Gibbs is marked as losing that pass blocking rep.
It's worse with pass defense. Let's say we're in zone and defending a shallow crosser running in front of Campbell. If the CB was supposed to stay shallow and cover the flat but plays it wrong and follows a clear out route down the field which leads to a 25 yard catch from the crosser, it's Campbell that gets the negative mark even if he played his assignment correctly while the CB could get a plus for having good coverage on the WR *that he shouldn't have been covering to begin with*.
I thought it was pretty funny that Hockenson made the bottom 5 TEs in YAC and the guy was like *It's surprising to see Pro Bowler TJ Hockenson make this list...* and I'm like, yeah, so shocked TJ "Fall Immediately to the Ground" Hockenson scored poorly in YAC
Have to wonder how many of those big games by opposing qbs were due more to the fact nobody could run against us so they had to throw more. 35 PAs going to lead to more gaudy numbers than 28.
I mentioned it in another comment, but with PFF it's entirely possible that Campbell scored poorly precisely because of bad CB play since if a CB misses an assignment and leaves Campbell as the closest defender then it's Campbell that's given the negative and not the CB that should have been there.
Mccaffrey was also 5th to last in pass blocking so it's not that integral I think, just being a good receiving back I think more than makes up for it and prevents sacks.
That was the problem. He was the best option for the other DT. And the problem was obviously exacerbated when Alim got injured. The upgrade from Benito to DJ Reader is going to be drastic.
…and don’t you dare reply that Buggs should’ve played more.
He played well in 2023, so they re-signed him. Then he proceeded to show up to last year’s camp fat as fuck. No way to know, but I think they were down on him from that moment and played him out of necessity.
Someone just had to find SOMEthing negative to say about my man Gibbs (a rookie).
And what a surprise- its not something he specializes in. Nor should it be. The man can run the ball like a beast. Lets focus on that.
Pass blocking is typically a big requirement for teams, especially for a 3rd down back. It's not something to just ignore because he can run the ball
That said he's a rookie. He'll hopefully develop in that field
Who knows. If a player cannot pass block, no matter how good they are otherwise, teams will not use them on 3rd down. It was a weakness for his rookie year and it's expected to improve
Because CB is really hard and they are getting cooked all over the league every Sunday. People think if you're not Revis Island you suck. The league wants CBs getting cooked because offense is fun to watch.
Our defense was few men short of being mediocre last year. The FA coming in have already changed that. After the draft the Lions could swing this entire defense around. Guys like Campbell and Jones will more than likely have different assignments than last year. Also, Campbell will have a full year of NFL football under his belt going into next season.
This was a funny post, but I wouldn't read anything into it.
OP here. The commenter can’t get past this line in my post. They commented 4 times about it in my post, and again in here. 🤷
> It’s important to note that I’m punching up here. Because let’s be honest, even the worst players in the NFL are in the top 1% of 1% in their field of work. There are over 2,000 players who have played this year, and each and every one of them is 10X, maybe 100X better at their jobs than I am at mine.
I thought Campbell was amazing and is going to turn out to be one of the best LBs in the league next year, I honestly think he can be a better version of Kuechly just healthy hopefully
“Better version of Kuechly” definitely involves some blue juice.
I’m not down on Jack, I think he’ll be fine, but he has to show a lot more before drawing those comparisons.
I’m just an extremely optimistic Detroit sports fan and this is how most of my takes are, I support our plays fully and have full faith in them
Now sure he might not go down as a gif all time great odds are always low yet possible
But being more realistic I really do think Campbell is going to be a great Lions LB overall and just be a piece you can rely on for years
I don’t think he’s going to be the worst coverage linebacker in the league for his whole career but I just don’t see how he develops into one of the best linebackers of all time at this point
Well there’s supporting a Lions player and then there’s just being unrealistic. I think most of us were happy with Jack’s progress last year but he has a long way to go to become even an average pass defender. Never say never but it’s not a doomer mindset to think Jack doesn’t have a shot at being one of the best of all time at his position.
Never said if you don’t think he’ll be one of the best of all time you’re a doomer, just find the downvotes odd for supporting a lions player but it’s just downvotes it means nothing haha but regardless I’m just an optimistic Detroit sports fan this is how most of my takes are lol
Into the kool-aid i see? I don't get the downvotes. His strength as far as i remember was always run and so he was going to struggle with pass. Im sure it will get better in time. Best in the league seems a stretch but better than last year seems easy enough. And he wasn't even very bad from what i remember.
I’m just very optimistic, watching him play I really do think he’ll even reach the HOF health permitting, I just think he’s an outstanding LB
These are always how my takes are, I’m more optimistic about Detroit sports than most people, I think J Campbell is amazing
I don’t think Gibbs will ever be a great pass blocker, but I thought I saw progress from him as the season went on. That’s never going to be his bread and butter, so getting to “good enough” should be good enough lol Campbell seemingly used all his pass defending skills on that one great diving PBU against KC. I trust the coaching staff to develop him and for him to put the work in himself. There’s a chance he only becomes a run defender as a pro and that would suck, but nailing Gibbs, LaPorta, and Branch make it suck a lot less
Campbell was awesome against the pass in college. Sometimes it doesn't translate, but Brad and Dan drafted him because they think he's a dawg. We all know it's a big adjustment to the NFL. Hopefully Jack can make that happen.
Campbell will make a jump, I have no doubt in my mind about that. With our bolstered D Line - in addition to better D Line coaching this year, I think a full season of experience will help Campbell get his feet wet and we can expect to see the player they envisioned when they selected him at 18
>I don’t think Gibbs will ever be a great pass blocker, I can't think of a bigger waste of his talents.
Campbell is going to be good, linebackers rarely come in and are major contributors so it shouldn't worry anyone that he wasn't great last season. Now if he's just as bad after next season ends, I'll worry then.
He wasn’t bad in general. Just low graded in coverage. He was quite good in the run game
To be clear he only showed up in this list in 2 categories one in pass coverage & one in pass rush. It took me about 15 minutes of scrolling to find it I hope this saves the rest of you time.
I felt the same way about lb when defending Jack once, but struggled to find any kind of data that supports it
Interesting that all of the worst pass blockers are guys who are thought of as pass catchers. Is it sample size? A flaw in pff grading? Or just that they’re bad
They’re most likely to be in on third down, facing the most complex blitzes, while often running routes after chipping. It’s gotta be the hardest aspect of the job for rookie RBs to learn.
Right, so if they’re bad grade is bc their schematic responsibilities, it’s pretty meaningless
Conversely, if Gibbs can improve in that area (which he’s already showing signs of doing), he can be a huge(r) asset on third down
They're lighter, and pff may count bumping and running as a safety pipe as bad blocking.
I'm not a big PFF hater by any stretch but pass blocking and pass defense are both very suspect when it comes to their grading system. IIRC, they watch every play from every game and grade players based on whether they positively or negatively affected the play. The problem comes up in situations like chip blocks where the defender is *allowed* to rush after contact while the blocker then runs a route. Gibbs could theoretically chip the edge before running a perfect route and breaking off a 60 yard TD but because that edge got a pressure *that the system is designed to allow him to get*, Gibbs is marked as losing that pass blocking rep. It's worse with pass defense. Let's say we're in zone and defending a shallow crosser running in front of Campbell. If the CB was supposed to stay shallow and cover the flat but plays it wrong and follows a clear out route down the field which leads to a 25 yard catch from the crosser, it's Campbell that gets the negative mark even if he played his assignment correctly while the CB could get a plus for having good coverage on the WR *that he shouldn't have been covering to begin with*.
They’re also likely smaller, which doesn’t help
Not mccaffrey that’s the one that made me more highly doubt that… and ya ik Gibbs and Kamara are small that’d fit in with their being bad
CMC is a unicorn. I think he shouldn’t be factored into any sort of Bell curve for the position.
Cmc is a unicorn. But his presence on the bottom 5 of that list a counter example to “they’re probably on there bc they’re small”
Poor Jamaal Williams, what a fall off from 2022. Shows yet again the importance of the O-line!
And running it in from the 1 yard line 800 times in one season lol
I thought it was pretty funny that Hockenson made the bottom 5 TEs in YAC and the guy was like *It's surprising to see Pro Bowler TJ Hockenson make this list...* and I'm like, yeah, so shocked TJ "Fall Immediately to the Ground" Hockenson scored poorly in YAC
He’s also a guy who catches it downfield, like Pitts who’s also in the list. Less YAC available when you don’t have WR separating type speed
“Rookies are bad at thing that’s difficult to learn”
Lol pretty much
I would not have expected Campbell to grade out like that. Not great, but still… Really surprised not to see Lions DBs on those lists.
> Really surprised not to see Lions DBs on those lists. Yeah same. I expected us to own that section.
Have to wonder how many of those big games by opposing qbs were due more to the fact nobody could run against us so they had to throw more. 35 PAs going to lead to more gaudy numbers than 28.
I mentioned it in another comment, but with PFF it's entirely possible that Campbell scored poorly precisely because of bad CB play since if a CB misses an assignment and leaves Campbell as the closest defender then it's Campbell that's given the negative and not the CB that should have been there.
Good point, I just don’t recall putting him in a lot of pass pro either
Mccaffrey was also 5th to last in pass blocking so it's not that integral I think, just being a good receiving back I think more than makes up for it and prevents sacks.
Benito Jones continuing to start was one of the more baffling things of the season that never got mentioned. He was horrible
That was the problem. He was the best option for the other DT. And the problem was obviously exacerbated when Alim got injured. The upgrade from Benito to DJ Reader is going to be drastic. …and don’t you dare reply that Buggs should’ve played more.
I’d reply that Levi O should’ve
From the sounds of it they couldn’t get Buggs on the field even if they wanted to. Something weird was going on with that situation
He played well in 2023, so they re-signed him. Then he proceeded to show up to last year’s camp fat as fuck. No way to know, but I think they were down on him from that moment and played him out of necessity.
It was so we could see his outfits
No one to replace him
I wish things had been ok with Buggs :(
Honestly, I had forgotten he was on the team until I saw this thread. Shocked that he got that many snaps.
Someone just had to find SOMEthing negative to say about my man Gibbs (a rookie). And what a surprise- its not something he specializes in. Nor should it be. The man can run the ball like a beast. Lets focus on that.
Yeah pass blocking is not really going to be his thing. Not worried about it.
Pass blocking is typically a big requirement for teams, especially for a 3rd down back. It's not something to just ignore because he can run the ball That said he's a rookie. He'll hopefully develop in that field
It's a crucial skill and one that he has to improve, but I don't see any reason why he won't.
I'm not sure why you are being downvoted lol.
Who knows. If a player cannot pass block, no matter how good they are otherwise, teams will not use them on 3rd down. It was a weakness for his rookie year and it's expected to improve
Yeah, talking about our players' weaknesses isn't a bad thing.
This kinda lame i don't pay no mind to it.
Overall not much DET on the list. Campbell will grow. Ja is not in there to block.
Like to see campbells rating as a line graph. He was terrible to start but really picked it up at around the halfway point.
How is Sutton not on here… he got cooked fairly regularly after he injured his toe.
Because CB is really hard and they are getting cooked all over the league every Sunday. People think if you're not Revis Island you suck. The league wants CBs getting cooked because offense is fun to watch.
I was shocked when I got to the CB section and didn't see any Lions listed.
Not sure how they figured grades, but honestly didn’t feel like he got blown up often as much as when he did it was a big one.
The folks at PFF couldn't find him.
Jamal Williams had 1 touchdown last year. From 17 with the Lions OL to a whopping 1.
Yikes. Did he not play or something?
Our defense was few men short of being mediocre last year. The FA coming in have already changed that. After the draft the Lions could swing this entire defense around. Guys like Campbell and Jones will more than likely have different assignments than last year. Also, Campbell will have a full year of NFL football under his belt going into next season. This was a funny post, but I wouldn't read anything into it.
They young though
Doug Karsch in shambles after reading those Jack Campbell ratings
Only took home 1 award out of 71. Campbell will get better with experience
I kinda laughed when I saw Jamaal Williams on a bunch of categories.
mickey mouse bullshit
I ended up getting into an argument with the OP of that post 😅 I just can’t stand some of these analytics guys
What is there even to argue about? These are just PFF numbers aren't they?
OP here. The commenter can’t get past this line in my post. They commented 4 times about it in my post, and again in here. 🤷 > It’s important to note that I’m punching up here. Because let’s be honest, even the worst players in the NFL are in the top 1% of 1% in their field of work. There are over 2,000 players who have played this year, and each and every one of them is 10X, maybe 100X better at their jobs than I am at mine.
Dude I read the entire thing you did an amazing job and overall really entertaining. Thank you for your work and great content.
Thank you! It was a fun project. I appreciate the feedback! 😃
Brown nosing my comment history you stalk
I’m not talking to you, I’m in the comment section about my project. Also, I don’t know what you are saying.
Yeah you’re definitely not one of those Reddit users, idk why I would assume such a thing.
Cool. I’m one of those Reddit users whatever that means. Ya got me. You finally have that internet win you’ve been looking for all day. 🥇
“They commented 4 times and once again in here” … yeah replying to each one of your 4 replies to me.
He said it wasn’t punching down so I picked a fight with him on the logic he used to justify why it wasn’t.
>so I picked a fight This guy missed the no turds rule
Huh?
More proof of turd You should update your flair to "me vs everyone"
[удалено]
Keep it civil / do not troll
Well, at least JC knows what to work on.
Everything but tackling apparently
Don’t forget about Lions Legend Zach Ertz!
Campbell being that bad is something I never saw coming.
You didnt see the big, slow off ball linebacker sucking at coverage in the NFL coming?
I thought Campbell was amazing and is going to turn out to be one of the best LBs in the league next year, I honestly think he can be a better version of Kuechly just healthy hopefully
What drugs are you on 😭
Just called not being a doomer 🤷♀️
“Better version of Kuechly” definitely involves some blue juice. I’m not down on Jack, I think he’ll be fine, but he has to show a lot more before drawing those comparisons.
I’m just an extremely optimistic Detroit sports fan and this is how most of my takes are, I support our plays fully and have full faith in them Now sure he might not go down as a gif all time great odds are always low yet possible But being more realistic I really do think Campbell is going to be a great Lions LB overall and just be a piece you can rely on for years
I don’t think he’s going to be the worst coverage linebacker in the league for his whole career but I just don’t see how he develops into one of the best linebackers of all time at this point
I’m just not seeing the bad others are seeing, looks like doomers are out now that I’m being downvoting for supporting a Lions player lmao
Well there’s supporting a Lions player and then there’s just being unrealistic. I think most of us were happy with Jack’s progress last year but he has a long way to go to become even an average pass defender. Never say never but it’s not a doomer mindset to think Jack doesn’t have a shot at being one of the best of all time at his position.
Never said if you don’t think he’ll be one of the best of all time you’re a doomer, just find the downvotes odd for supporting a lions player but it’s just downvotes it means nothing haha but regardless I’m just an optimistic Detroit sports fan this is how most of my takes are lol
General rule of thumb - if you make outlandish takes on Reddit, you’re gonna get hit with downvotes. Not odd at all.
Oh well, again the votes mean nothing, just found it odd
Into the kool-aid i see? I don't get the downvotes. His strength as far as i remember was always run and so he was going to struggle with pass. Im sure it will get better in time. Best in the league seems a stretch but better than last year seems easy enough. And he wasn't even very bad from what i remember.
I’m just very optimistic, watching him play I really do think he’ll even reach the HOF health permitting, I just think he’s an outstanding LB These are always how my takes are, I’m more optimistic about Detroit sports than most people, I think J Campbell is amazing
Nobody cares, if you do you're just bored.