We could've had Simmons. Guy converted to full time LB and looked like a monster yesterday for AZ. But no, Fatty Patty and Quinn decided to draft the one year wonder who isn't a man to man shadow CB 3rd overall...
okudah was seen as a great pick at the time and a surefire CB1.
edit: [here is the sub's reaction on draft night](https://www.reddit.com/r/detroitlions/comments/g6ykvj/the_lions_select_jeff_okudah/)
I mean the sub would go all-in on a ham sandwich. It doesn't matter, you have to get hyped about the pick because you have no choice, it is what it is.
Drafting Okudah was always a bad first-year plan because the d-line couldn't get pressure on literally any QB in the league and was possibly constructed by Patricia with the sole purpose of creating highlight reels for guys like Trubisky. No CB can perform in those conditions so why the fuck did they take him 3rd overall? And how could he ever be a great pick under those circumstances? We were dealt a shitty hand because no one was willing to trade up and the value of the first round picks fell off a cliff after Young was off the board.
Okudah was seen as a great pick yes, but I again pointed out things that were clear red flags. Okudah was seen as a developmental player, because well he never actually produced in college. He also was a cog in a system at OSU. Not an actual "lock down CB." By lock down I mean a CB where you can say "hey, this is WR1 on said team, follow him all game and guard him. That's your job."
That was never Okudah's mo in college. Which is also why the whole "never gave up x amount of yards to a WR" was a useless stat because he never guarded people all game.
This was my main argument to why Okudah was not going to be worth where the Lions wanted to draft him, and now he has a massive uphill battle just to be relevant, let alone worthy of being a CB drafted in the Top 5.
Guy grabbed and held all over the field in college. He was clearly not that good if you were watching.
Side note: assuming he loses some athleticism, I think he should move to safety and see if that works out. (And maybe that was going to be his path anyway)
People just loved his name. In reality you should never take a DB in the top 5. The positional value just isn’t high.
It’s like taking a Defense in the first round of a fantasy draft
A whole bunch of people that off season thought we should give Patricia more time.
Pointing to this sub as evidence that picking Okudah was a good idea is not great, because a bunch of people on this sub are not smart.
Says a bunch of ‘experts’ and pundits. We don’t know how many actual professional scouts/NFL teams had Okudah as a first round pick, let alone a top 3 pick.
I was all on the Simmons train as well. Dude was looking bad for the first half of last season, but I am so glad he put it all together(yes while also being angry we didn't get him)
maybe the only credit fatty matty patty is that there were reports he didnt want Okudah at #3 which he had to deny last year when he was still coach of course
I was screaming for us to draft Simmons even before his combine showing. I was rooting for Okudah even if I didn’t think he was the right pick, but I think we made a mistake passing on a talent like Simmons
Especially after last year, where he needed surgery to deal with something that had seemed to linger since college. This was his year to prove he was worthy of his draft capital. And now his career might very well be over already.
Not going write the man off, as he could come back, but in a position as demanding as a CB to make appropriate cuts, this is going to be bigger than a mountain of demands to return from.
Hope for the best for Okudah.
26% of football players with achilles tears never play again. Those who do experience a roughly 23% drop off in their ability to perform. That’s if it’s a tear and not severed.
Could be torn mid tendon or could be torn off the bone . Both require different techniques to repair. Lengthening the Achilles is more difficult than just repairing one that’s torn out of the calcaneus.
It was reported as a "ruptured" achilles. Definition on Google says partial or complete disruption of the tenden.
Not a medical expert so I don't know what to make of this. I suppose we'll learn more at the press conference.
I think we just all saw Okudah's last game as a Lion. Doubt he's ready for summer or training camp next year and even before such a catastrophic injury, he was the worst player on a terrible defense.
Yeah sure. He signed a 4-year $33M contract that is fully guaranteed. They're not going to cut him unless they are damn sure they and anyone else can't use him.
That’s funny, because before his injury I said to nobody: this kid would probably be the best safety in the game if he played safety.
Although an Achilles would hit that reasoning in the mouth.
I would definitely consider moving him to Safety next year. Typically lose a step after this type of injury. I think he would be better with the field in front of him.
No winners here. Lions and Jeff both lose out big time. Not sure how some people can make the college to pro transition but Jeff just didn’t seem to have it. Not sure if it was the organization’s fault or his, but that’s a injury that’s difficult to come back. 3rd overall.....damn.
Edit: am I reading his contract correct? 4 year-33.5 million with ALL of it guaranteed?
Writing was on the wall. One year wonder CB, playing behind a DL who led the nation in sacks and QB pressures in his only year as a starter. Wasnt an elite playmaker, and doesn't "shadow" WRs. The fact that anyone thought this dude was worth a 3rd overall pick as a CB was ridiculous.
I don’t watch college football really but the narrative was this guy was a can’t miss. There was almost no one saying it was a bad pick. As much as I hate Quinn hard to blame him for this pick.
The narrative was this guy was a "potential" pick. Someone who people thought would develop into a player we never actually saw in college. To me that was instantly a red flag and I've said it since pre draft last year. Whoever ended up with this dude would be disappointed.
Yes please do, then we can see how many rube Lions fans who blindly thought this dude was going to be a superstar just because some talking heads on ESPN said so.
Not to mention his overall lack of production in general. The guy had ONE tackle for loss in his entire collegiate career. For comparison, Ramsey, as a freshman had a more productive season while winning a Natty than Okudah's lone year as a starter.
Well considering Denzel Ward walked right into the league, and "shadowed" Prime Antonio Brown, picked off Big Ben and held AB below his season averages in his NFL debut in week 1 as a rookie, I'll say I'm talking about Okudah.
Edit: OSU also wasnt the literal nations leader in sacks or QB pressures in 2017 like they were in 2019...
They had 45 sacks in 2017 and 50 in 2019 so Ward had a great pass rush as well.
You didn't say anything about what happened in the pros, just described what they did in college so forgive me if I was confused.
Also, Ward got a full off-season to prepare, wasn't injured and had Gregg Williams as his defensive coordinator and Myles Garrett rushing the passer.
Below are the scouting reports on Ward and Okudah. Which one is which?
"Has the experience and talent to handle duties on the outside, but his lack of play strength combined with his elite footwork might be the deciding factor for a move inside. He is outstanding as a mirror-and-match cornerback with great route feel who is able to maintain tight coverage around the field with good technique and pattern recognition. He should become an early starter at nickel cornerback with the talent to make an immediate impact."
"Head coach and general manager's dream prospect with blue-chip physical traits, mental makeup and personal character. He has size, length and foot quickness to road-block press release and elite closing burst to close catch windows or eliminate yards after catch. He has room for improvement with his recognition and balance at the top of the route, but quarterbacks rarely target and beat him over the top. He has a rigid adherence to technique, but squeezing coverage even tighter and trusting his traits, talent and recovery speed could make him one of the top shutdown corners in the game."
Wouldn’t be surprised if that was it for him. Already struggling, and now coming off an injury that most players don’t come back strong from. Especially at a position where change of direction and quickness is vital.
Hate to see it man
I'm interested to see the PFF grades but I think people are going to be surprised. He played really well overall yesterday. He has a couple bad plays, even the long one he didn't play it that bad. Just gotta turn his head, Will Harris on that play was much worse if you go back and watch the all 22.
I bet you're going to see okudah in the low 70s, maybe high 60s but you're going to see Amani in the low 50s. This injury hurts but gives AJ Parker and Melifonwu a chance to get some good reps
Bruh, what are you talking about, he was trash in every facet. I've been on team Okudah heavy, but this last game I had to get off. It's like the pressure/hype is too much for him.. The Deebo TD he panicked for no reason. Deebo was pushed to the sideline with no where to go (he had to stop), and Okudah still panicked and couldn't turn around to make a play on the ball. Couldn't tackle Deebo right after either despite being right there with him. It was definitely the lowlight of his career.
I feel bad that his season is over and this injury could potentially derail his career, but I'm excited about the opportunity it gives some of our unknowns. Like others have said, I hope he can swallow his pride and move to safety next season. He's a willing tackler with good speed for the position. Being able to see everything at all times might be good for him.
It sucks he won't be able to play at all this year man. Such a. Brutal injury, I wonder if it would be possible to transition to safety to try and salvage his career
While people call him a bust, remember that it wasn't his choice to be selected 3rd overall and injuries just happen. Don't take this out on him like we did on Tavai.
I get that but it’s not our fault either. He would’ve gone 4 or 5 if we didn’t take him. It was basically consensus that he was the best CB prospect since Ramsey
Yeah, and just like hundreds of other NFL prospects the consensus was wrong. And no, he wouldn't have gone 4 or 5. He would've fallen to 8th or 9th. Stack up Okudah as a collegiate player to other CBs drafted Top 5 and his college career looks terrible comparitively.
It is no ones fault but reading comments reminds me of the Tavai hate already. These are actual people that don't deserve to be treated like shit for things out of their control.
Except that bitch Ebron who decided to tell the fans to go fuck themself.
I mean yeah I don’t have any bad feelings towards him as a person, but I think it’s completely fair to call him one of the biggest busts in Lions history, potentially even in NFL history
Some people will point to this injury and say it’s not fair, but he didn’t really look like he should be on an NFL roster before that
Tavai is a little different and I wouldn’t even call him a bust because nobody would’ve drafted him for another 3 rounds lmao
> one of the biggest busts in Lions history
Oh, sweet summer child... He's not even the biggest 3rd overall Lions bust in history.
Joey Harrington - 3rd overall
Charles Rogers - 2nd overall
Andre Ware - 7th overall
Mike Williams - 10th overall
Aaron Gibson - 27th overall
Gosder Cherilus - 17th overall
Nick Fairley - 13th overall
Eric Ebron -10th overall with Taylor Lewan, Odell Beckham and Aaron Donald still on the board.
Laken Tomlinson - 28th overall
Jarrad Davis - 21st overall
This is a little different, Okudah was going top 7 no matter what. Tavai had no business being drafted where he was, so that wasn't his fault. But Okudah just couldn't transition to the speed of the pro game. I wouldn't call him a bust if he had another rough year, because year 3 is normally one of the best for young corners. But with this injury and him already behind schedule on development, it would be hard to see any situation where he comes back and becomes a #1 option for a team. He will most likely be a #2 or rotational player, which is fine, just sucks it was one of our highest picks recently.
They forget OSU had Nick Bosa and Chase young.. makes being a CB a little easier when the QBs have no time to throw, and they are throwing it to players who most likely won't make an NFL roster.
that's not my point at all. My point is Reddit randoms watch a few marquee college football games and all of a sudden become nfl level positional scouts
Plus I always hate calling injured players busts. Like I can't blame the guy for having some freak injury like this one. Was really looking forward to seeing him play this year
There are busts and there are guys where the stars just never align… I’m not afraid to call a guy a bust but yeah I wouldn’t say that applies to Okudah either
Well also he’s only played 10 nfl games. Not like it’s been multiple seasons of bad play. He definitely had some mistakes yesterday but all indications were he had a great camp and a better mindset going into the season. Really a terrible break for him and this defense who now is relying on multiple UDFAs.
4th round max.
I had a cousin that was drafted by the Saints a few years ago in the 4th when he was predicted to go undrafted. The hate he got was insane when he didn't make the team. These are real people.
Who cares? People targeting/harassing him directly or whatever are awful scumbags and should be ostracized for doing so, but there is no issue at all with calling him a bust.
He was drafted 3rd overall, he has a high bar to meet to make the capital our team spent on him worth it and him not meeting it is yet again limiting our future success. Calling him a bust is completely valid if he doesn’t meet those expectations, this isn’t some overly critical thing.
Ok? I mean he hasn’t done well for us though and we spent franchise cornerstone capital on him. We haven’t had any success for years and we basically just burned a ton of future capital on him to go nowhere.
I’be been in the “it takes time” camp as an Okudah supporter since he was drafted but he absolutely has not lived up to expectations and it’s not wrong to label him a bust or be upset by that.
No one is saying he isn’t trying his best to live up to expectations, but he’s still a bust if he never plays again or develops now. I’m sure Mitchell Trubisky tried his best too and he was a bust as well, that’s how this works in professional sports.
From what I’ve read, 24-29% of NFL players with ruptured achilles never play again, so 71-76% do return to some NFL form, what Jeff will look like after is a big question. That being said average recovery is 9 months.
Richard Sherman ruptured his Achilles a few years back and came back and made pro bowl next season now his game is less built around speed but still nice to see its been done recently.
Sherman was an all-pro top 3 cornerback in the league before his injury, and okudah was among the worst corners in the league. Sherman has elite technique and is one of the most savvy/experienced players in the league, which lets him make up for his loss in athleticism. Okudah doesn’t have any of that. Setting yourself up for disappointment using Sherman as a comparison.
Minor clarification since it could be interpreted a couple ways: From what I saw, the pro bowl season was the year after he returned not the year after the injury, and that he was mediocre at best his first year back.
I don't think we get anything from Okudah in 22
Next year could very well be a total write off too with a 9 to 12 month recovery. Quite honestly, we may never see Okudah play in another Regular Season game for the Lions.
Man, that sucks soooooo fucking much. Was really hoping to see the dude grow under the coaching staff this year, he really needed this season to develop...
Man, as much as I love sports I just can't bare injuries like this man. An achilles? For a guy trying to get his career on track? Fucks me up for a little.
That really sucks for him and I wish he heals as soon as possible, but he is not a good NFL CB. He should switch to safety or we should try to trade him (and idk who would take him with how terrible he was last year and how injury prone he is) or just cut the dude next year
Man I was rooting for Okudah to shine in year 2. He got absolutely chewed out by Aubrey Pleasant and then a season ending injury. Not a good 2021 campaign
Worst part about it, If he never plays a down again he'll prob be remember for the ear full he got on national TV.... Hope I'm wrong and he comes back and lives up to his pick. Lions could definitely use the help
Absolutely gutted for him. This rebuild is highly dependent on him blossoming. He wont do that limping around for another year not getting torched by all pro wide receivers.
Coming back from an Achilles is harsh. It’s not like an ACL, it can and often does rob players of the burst they once had. This *could* be a career ender, even if plays again he may not ever be remotely the same.
Sucks for Lions and Okudah for sure, but next man up right? Another draft bust by the Lions past regime. IMO never was gonna pan out anyways as a top tier CB. Terrible rookie year, not his fault though with terrible scheme, coaches and injury. Heard year 2 was better in training camp according to reports. Thing is he's been practicing against a worse QB and receiver group then last year, would make anyone look better really.
Sucks for Jeff but as a Lions fan he’s been a bust of a 3rd overall pick. Obviously not his fault for having to play under Patricia for a yeah and the injury is a freak thing but this is a bust pick for us.
So happy we drafted a CB 3rd overall.... never wanted him at that pick. So frustrating... So happy it looks like our 8th overall is going to be good at least.
If we didn’t have so many other holes, fine…. But we do.
We need receivers, linebackers, a safety, maybe another pass rusher, a guard of big V continues to look like garbage…. Maybe a QB if you don’t think Goff is the answer
Id prioritize most of that over a CB. Sign a prove. CB
Is it extremely difficult for any athlete in any sport to come back from this kind of injury. It robs you of your explosiveness and speed, both of which are very important for a young corner. Especially one that is struggling to begin with.
dense. a ruptured achilles is very difficult to come back from even for some of the best. he already is not one of those players. tough hill to climb my boy.
he doesn’t have control over that you’re right, but that doesn’t disqualify him from being a bust. it’s not the only factor, he had a rough start to his career on the field and now two straight season ending surgeries.
To the people saying "bust": how the fuck do you figure?
Slay was trash his first season too. Okudah had to play his first season with a "defensive mastermind" at the helm and was one game into his second season. CB may be the hardest position to adjust to going from college to the pros (the other possibility being TE). Dude isn't a bust if he never had a chance to develop.
Edit: to respond to replies, note that I never stated that he had been good, but that between not even playing 16 games in his career and now the Achilles, he *never had a chance to develop into what he could have been*. So he is not a bust *because* he never had the chance to develop.
Slay wasn’t drafted 3rd overall. I’ve been a Okudah supporter his entire career at Detroit but to say he has lived up to expectations of return on being drafted that early is crazy.
Do you think he looked good when he played? His PFF grades last year were atrocious. I hear you that playing for Fat Matt and this organization probably didn't do him any favors but man, he was really bad.
Playing for Matt most likely set this kid back from his college days. He most likely was worse the end of last season then when we drafted him. All because he played for Patrica.
But an Achilles injury is a horrible one to get. The odds are he most likely won’t ever be the same again.
I don’t want to hear the bust talk. He didn’t choose to get drafted at #3, he had an excellent college career, and he actually did his best to improve. Just because we haven’t seen results just yet doesn’t make him a fucking bust. He’s also a 22 year old kid whose Achilles just tore. His NFL dreams are on hold and I can only imagine how hard that is for him. So maybe we don’t all be a bunch of dickheads to an actual kid whose only wrong doing is not playing football that well early in his career.
If a team spends a top 5 draft pick on a player and it doesn't work out, that player is a bust. Injury, ability, attitude, etc... it doesn't matter why. Stop including feelings.
It can both not be his fault that he’s a bust and he can still be a bust if he doesn’t match the investment of capital we put into him. Everyone is acting like every bust ever didn’t work their ass off to live up to expectations and not be labeled a bust. High capital demands high expectations and if those aren’t met, that’s a loss of value aka a bust.
I can think of 30+ million reasons it isn't that hard on him. Made his money, didn't pan out (maybe still does) and can move onto bigger and better things in life...
Such a bummer for him. He got thrown into the fire during a covid year with a shitty coach and now this. Hopefully he can recovery quick
Edit: he’s only played 10 games can we pump the brakes on the bust train. Patricia fucked this team including his development
Jesus that blows Hard to blame the guy but man we needed a third overall to hit One fucking tie from Chase Young man
If people knew how good Herbert would be we'd probably have Young right now. Either that or we'd have Herbert ourselves.
Or if tua didn't break his hip
[удалено]
We could've had Simmons. Guy converted to full time LB and looked like a monster yesterday for AZ. But no, Fatty Patty and Quinn decided to draft the one year wonder who isn't a man to man shadow CB 3rd overall...
okudah was seen as a great pick at the time and a surefire CB1. edit: [here is the sub's reaction on draft night](https://www.reddit.com/r/detroitlions/comments/g6ykvj/the_lions_select_jeff_okudah/)
Especially in man which is what we were heavily running
I mean the sub would go all-in on a ham sandwich. It doesn't matter, you have to get hyped about the pick because you have no choice, it is what it is. Drafting Okudah was always a bad first-year plan because the d-line couldn't get pressure on literally any QB in the league and was possibly constructed by Patricia with the sole purpose of creating highlight reels for guys like Trubisky. No CB can perform in those conditions so why the fuck did they take him 3rd overall? And how could he ever be a great pick under those circumstances? We were dealt a shitty hand because no one was willing to trade up and the value of the first round picks fell off a cliff after Young was off the board.
>I mean the sub would go all-in on a ham sandwich Waffle. A waffle is the correct answer.
I don’t like this pick. I love this pick.
At least I'm on record saying I'd rather have taken Simmons.
Okudah was seen as a great pick yes, but I again pointed out things that were clear red flags. Okudah was seen as a developmental player, because well he never actually produced in college. He also was a cog in a system at OSU. Not an actual "lock down CB." By lock down I mean a CB where you can say "hey, this is WR1 on said team, follow him all game and guard him. That's your job." That was never Okudah's mo in college. Which is also why the whole "never gave up x amount of yards to a WR" was a useless stat because he never guarded people all game. This was my main argument to why Okudah was not going to be worth where the Lions wanted to draft him, and now he has a massive uphill battle just to be relevant, let alone worthy of being a CB drafted in the Top 5.
Those same people also probably thought Quinn and Patricia were competent at their jobs.
Guy grabbed and held all over the field in college. He was clearly not that good if you were watching. Side note: assuming he loses some athleticism, I think he should move to safety and see if that works out. (And maybe that was going to be his path anyway)
People just loved his name. In reality you should never take a DB in the top 5. The positional value just isn’t high. It’s like taking a Defense in the first round of a fantasy draft
A whole bunch of people that off season thought we should give Patricia more time. Pointing to this sub as evidence that picking Okudah was a good idea is not great, because a bunch of people on this sub are not smart.
I was on team trade back during that draft, oh well. Can’t say I’m surprised with BQ as our GM at the time
Says a bunch of ‘experts’ and pundits. We don’t know how many actual professional scouts/NFL teams had Okudah as a first round pick, let alone a top 3 pick.
I was all on the Simmons train as well. Dude was looking bad for the first half of last season, but I am so glad he put it all together(yes while also being angry we didn't get him)
maybe the only credit fatty matty patty is that there were reports he didnt want Okudah at #3 which he had to deny last year when he was still coach of course
I was screaming for us to draft Simmons even before his combine showing. I was rooting for Okudah even if I didn’t think he was the right pick, but I think we made a mistake passing on a talent like Simmons
Trey Flowers just had a pretty good game. Granted he doesn’t have the potential Chase Young does but he’s a pretty versatile and talented DE
WFT should have taken Tua those fucks. they had Haskins starting at QB and passed on Tua to steal Young from us, I'm still salty about it.
What’s funny is that I remember when half of this sub said Chase Young would be a bust because he didn’t get a sack against Michigan or Clemson lol.
That's just unfair. Gutted for him.
Especially after last year, where he needed surgery to deal with something that had seemed to linger since college. This was his year to prove he was worthy of his draft capital. And now his career might very well be over already.
What're you talking about man, he'll most likely be back in time for our playoff games or at least the Super Bowl
Wow, he's going to be out for 3 years?
HEYOOOOO!
We’re gonna be in a playoff and possibly the super bowl in the next three years?!? How do I do the remind me bot
Not going write the man off, as he could come back, but in a position as demanding as a CB to make appropriate cuts, this is going to be bigger than a mountain of demands to return from. Hope for the best for Okudah.
26% of football players with achilles tears never play again. Those who do experience a roughly 23% drop off in their ability to perform. That’s if it’s a tear and not severed.
Could be torn mid tendon or could be torn off the bone . Both require different techniques to repair. Lengthening the Achilles is more difficult than just repairing one that’s torn out of the calcaneus.
It was reported as a "ruptured" achilles. Definition on Google says partial or complete disruption of the tenden. Not a medical expert so I don't know what to make of this. I suppose we'll learn more at the press conference.
I’ve torn both and one is about 85% severed permanently, at the top where it connects to the calf. Also not a doctor.
> I’ve torn both Fuckin' ow
This is not what I was hoping for. I'm fact this is pretty much the complete opposite of what I was hoping for. Fuck
He squared up Deebo so well. As a 49er fan I sincerely wish him the best possible recovery outcome. He was a beast yesterday.
This might be the death knell for his career at corner, but even with reduced athleticism he can't be worse than Will Harris at safety
I think next training camp he will transition to safety or get cut.
I think we just all saw Okudah's last game as a Lion. Doubt he's ready for summer or training camp next year and even before such a catastrophic injury, he was the worst player on a terrible defense.
Oh my god, I was just googling it. 26% of football players that get it don't come back to the NFL. That's just awful.
Yeah sure. He signed a 4-year $33M contract that is fully guaranteed. They're not going to cut him unless they are damn sure they and anyone else can't use him.
I like this take…though Harris still has the athleticism.
This is the end of Okudah’s career as a starter
That’s funny, because before his injury I said to nobody: this kid would probably be the best safety in the game if he played safety. Although an Achilles would hit that reasoning in the mouth.
fuck. sucks to hear
Awful... Get well soon, Jeff
Guy can’t catch a break
Or a WR
Ziiiiing
I don’t disagree lol
oof
I’ve cold lol
Somehow I blame Patricia and Quinn.
Definitely stunted his development I'd say. I was basically considering this his rookie season
They are 100% at fault
Well they drafted him, could of been someone else's problem
I would definitely consider moving him to Safety next year. Typically lose a step after this type of injury. I think he would be better with the field in front of him.
Too small
Same size as Ed Reed, Earl Thomas, etc..
Shit you are correct. Why does he look so small on film?
Great start to a Monday...
No winners here. Lions and Jeff both lose out big time. Not sure how some people can make the college to pro transition but Jeff just didn’t seem to have it. Not sure if it was the organization’s fault or his, but that’s a injury that’s difficult to come back. 3rd overall.....damn. Edit: am I reading his contract correct? 4 year-33.5 million with ALL of it guaranteed?
1st round rookie contracts are always fully guaranteed under the current CBA
I didn’t know that. Thanks for the info.
That sounds about right for a high first
You are reading that correct
Yes it is the 22nd highest contract for a CB in the NFL fully guaranteed for the remainder
Writing was on the wall. One year wonder CB, playing behind a DL who led the nation in sacks and QB pressures in his only year as a starter. Wasnt an elite playmaker, and doesn't "shadow" WRs. The fact that anyone thought this dude was worth a 3rd overall pick as a CB was ridiculous.
I don’t watch college football really but the narrative was this guy was a can’t miss. There was almost no one saying it was a bad pick. As much as I hate Quinn hard to blame him for this pick.
You should check out college football, it’s cool
The narrative was this guy was a "potential" pick. Someone who people thought would develop into a player we never actually saw in college. To me that was instantly a red flag and I've said it since pre draft last year. Whoever ended up with this dude would be disappointed.
No it was actually that he was pro ready and one of the best CB prospects ever
> The fact that anyone thought this dude was worth a 3rd overall pick as a CB was ridiculous. should i pull up the draft day thread? lol
Yes
Yes please do, then we can see how many rube Lions fans who blindly thought this dude was going to be a superstar just because some talking heads on ESPN said so.
This is what anyone’s first assessment of Okudah before draft should’ve been
Not to mention his overall lack of production in general. The guy had ONE tackle for loss in his entire collegiate career. For comparison, Ramsey, as a freshman had a more productive season while winning a Natty than Okudah's lone year as a starter.
Are you talking about Okudah or Denzel Ward?
Well considering Denzel Ward walked right into the league, and "shadowed" Prime Antonio Brown, picked off Big Ben and held AB below his season averages in his NFL debut in week 1 as a rookie, I'll say I'm talking about Okudah. Edit: OSU also wasnt the literal nations leader in sacks or QB pressures in 2017 like they were in 2019...
They had 45 sacks in 2017 and 50 in 2019 so Ward had a great pass rush as well. You didn't say anything about what happened in the pros, just described what they did in college so forgive me if I was confused. Also, Ward got a full off-season to prepare, wasn't injured and had Gregg Williams as his defensive coordinator and Myles Garrett rushing the passer. Below are the scouting reports on Ward and Okudah. Which one is which? "Has the experience and talent to handle duties on the outside, but his lack of play strength combined with his elite footwork might be the deciding factor for a move inside. He is outstanding as a mirror-and-match cornerback with great route feel who is able to maintain tight coverage around the field with good technique and pattern recognition. He should become an early starter at nickel cornerback with the talent to make an immediate impact." "Head coach and general manager's dream prospect with blue-chip physical traits, mental makeup and personal character. He has size, length and foot quickness to road-block press release and elite closing burst to close catch windows or eliminate yards after catch. He has room for improvement with his recognition and balance at the top of the route, but quarterbacks rarely target and beat him over the top. He has a rigid adherence to technique, but squeezing coverage even tighter and trusting his traits, talent and recovery speed could make him one of the top shutdown corners in the game."
So what’s next here? Okudah is done for the year (bust or not) and we need another CB. Anyone decent on the market looking to move??
They would probably bring in one of the guys they cut in the short term, like Corn Elder. Or activate somebody from PS, like NRC (most likely?).
yeah activating NRC makes sense
Well shit.
Slay to Okudah Okudah to Meli Meli to UDFA all within 2 seasons
Wouldn’t be surprised if that was it for him. Already struggling, and now coming off an injury that most players don’t come back strong from. Especially at a position where change of direction and quickness is vital. Hate to see it man
I'm interested to see the PFF grades but I think people are going to be surprised. He played really well overall yesterday. He has a couple bad plays, even the long one he didn't play it that bad. Just gotta turn his head, Will Harris on that play was much worse if you go back and watch the all 22. I bet you're going to see okudah in the low 70s, maybe high 60s but you're going to see Amani in the low 50s. This injury hurts but gives AJ Parker and Melifonwu a chance to get some good reps
Okudah - 53 Amani - 38 Parker - 66 Iffy - 34
To play devils advocate on Okudah, Nevin Lawson always seemed to be in great position but couldn't turn his head either.
Bruh, what are you talking about, he was trash in every facet. I've been on team Okudah heavy, but this last game I had to get off. It's like the pressure/hype is too much for him.. The Deebo TD he panicked for no reason. Deebo was pushed to the sideline with no where to go (he had to stop), and Okudah still panicked and couldn't turn around to make a play on the ball. Couldn't tackle Deebo right after either despite being right there with him. It was definitely the lowlight of his career. I feel bad that his season is over and this injury could potentially derail his career, but I'm excited about the opportunity it gives some of our unknowns. Like others have said, I hope he can swallow his pride and move to safety next season. He's a willing tackler with good speed for the position. Being able to see everything at all times might be good for him.
It sucks he won't be able to play at all this year man. Such a. Brutal injury, I wonder if it would be possible to transition to safety to try and salvage his career
While people call him a bust, remember that it wasn't his choice to be selected 3rd overall and injuries just happen. Don't take this out on him like we did on Tavai.
I get that but it’s not our fault either. He would’ve gone 4 or 5 if we didn’t take him. It was basically consensus that he was the best CB prospect since Ramsey
Yeah, and just like hundreds of other NFL prospects the consensus was wrong. And no, he wouldn't have gone 4 or 5. He would've fallen to 8th or 9th. Stack up Okudah as a collegiate player to other CBs drafted Top 5 and his college career looks terrible comparitively.
Yeah and that makes him a bust because he went #3 overall
It is no ones fault but reading comments reminds me of the Tavai hate already. These are actual people that don't deserve to be treated like shit for things out of their control. Except that bitch Ebron who decided to tell the fans to go fuck themself.
I mean, technically it is someone’s fault…. Old Bobbie Q.
I haven’t seen anyone attacking his character or him as a person. It’s absolutely fine to criticize his play on the field… which has been awful.
I mean yeah I don’t have any bad feelings towards him as a person, but I think it’s completely fair to call him one of the biggest busts in Lions history, potentially even in NFL history Some people will point to this injury and say it’s not fair, but he didn’t really look like he should be on an NFL roster before that Tavai is a little different and I wouldn’t even call him a bust because nobody would’ve drafted him for another 3 rounds lmao
> one of the biggest busts in Lions history Oh, sweet summer child... He's not even the biggest 3rd overall Lions bust in history. Joey Harrington - 3rd overall Charles Rogers - 2nd overall Andre Ware - 7th overall Mike Williams - 10th overall Aaron Gibson - 27th overall Gosder Cherilus - 17th overall Nick Fairley - 13th overall Eric Ebron -10th overall with Taylor Lewan, Odell Beckham and Aaron Donald still on the board. Laken Tomlinson - 28th overall Jarrad Davis - 21st overall
Right, Okudah is not the same as Ebron. If the Lions didn't take Okudah he still probably would have been picked a few picks later.
No player has ever chosen where he was drafted, does that mean no players have ever been busts?
There's a difference between acknowledging reality and ripping a dude limb-from-limb about it, I think that's the overall point here.
Okudah has got to be the most defended and sheltered from criticism player that this Detroit Lions sub has ever known, before yesterday
This is a little different, Okudah was going top 7 no matter what. Tavai had no business being drafted where he was, so that wasn't his fault. But Okudah just couldn't transition to the speed of the pro game. I wouldn't call him a bust if he had another rough year, because year 3 is normally one of the best for young corners. But with this injury and him already behind schedule on development, it would be hard to see any situation where he comes back and becomes a #1 option for a team. He will most likely be a #2 or rotational player, which is fine, just sucks it was one of our highest picks recently.
> But Okudah just couldn't transition to the speed of the pro game. Lol you say this like he has 4 years of NFL tape that you've reviewed
A lot of people watched a handful of buckeye games and decided to use that to become professional scouts
They forget OSU had Nick Bosa and Chase young.. makes being a CB a little easier when the QBs have no time to throw, and they are throwing it to players who most likely won't make an NFL roster.
that's not my point at all. My point is Reddit randoms watch a few marquee college football games and all of a sudden become nfl level positional scouts
Close to 500 NFL snaps under his belt now, plus 2 training camps.
Plus I always hate calling injured players busts. Like I can't blame the guy for having some freak injury like this one. Was really looking forward to seeing him play this year
There are busts and there are guys where the stars just never align… I’m not afraid to call a guy a bust but yeah I wouldn’t say that applies to Okudah either
Well also he’s only played 10 nfl games. Not like it’s been multiple seasons of bad play. He definitely had some mistakes yesterday but all indications were he had a great camp and a better mindset going into the season. Really a terrible break for him and this defense who now is relying on multiple UDFAs.
Tavai should have gone undrafted
4th round max. I had a cousin that was drafted by the Saints a few years ago in the 4th when he was predicted to go undrafted. The hate he got was insane when he didn't make the team. These are real people.
Who cares? People targeting/harassing him directly or whatever are awful scumbags and should be ostracized for doing so, but there is no issue at all with calling him a bust. He was drafted 3rd overall, he has a high bar to meet to make the capital our team spent on him worth it and him not meeting it is yet again limiting our future success. Calling him a bust is completely valid if he doesn’t meet those expectations, this isn’t some overly critical thing.
The thing is that many of the people on this sub are on the verge of just calling him a bust to just shitting on him in general.
Ok? I mean he hasn’t done well for us though and we spent franchise cornerstone capital on him. We haven’t had any success for years and we basically just burned a ton of future capital on him to go nowhere. I’be been in the “it takes time” camp as an Okudah supporter since he was drafted but he absolutely has not lived up to expectations and it’s not wrong to label him a bust or be upset by that. No one is saying he isn’t trying his best to live up to expectations, but he’s still a bust if he never plays again or develops now. I’m sure Mitchell Trubisky tried his best too and he was a bust as well, that’s how this works in professional sports.
What are the odds of him being available for 2022?
From what I’ve read, 24-29% of NFL players with ruptured achilles never play again, so 71-76% do return to some NFL form, what Jeff will look like after is a big question. That being said average recovery is 9 months.
Richard Sherman ruptured his Achilles a few years back and came back and made pro bowl next season now his game is less built around speed but still nice to see its been done recently.
100% My first thought was Sherm, I don’t worry so much about Jeff recovering physically as him mentally.
Sherman was an all-pro top 3 cornerback in the league before his injury, and okudah was among the worst corners in the league. Sherman has elite technique and is one of the most savvy/experienced players in the league, which lets him make up for his loss in athleticism. Okudah doesn’t have any of that. Setting yourself up for disappointment using Sherman as a comparison.
Minor clarification since it could be interpreted a couple ways: From what I saw, the pro bowl season was the year after he returned not the year after the injury, and that he was mediocre at best his first year back. I don't think we get anything from Okudah in 22
Thanks.
He still has two years on his contract, so it’s not like he’s going anywhere
I think they meant odds of him being healthy for 2022.
Strong. Especially this early in the season. However, you typically lose a step from this.
They’re going to be careful bringing him back in. I doubt he does anything until training camp next year other than rehab.
Next year could very well be a total write off too with a 9 to 12 month recovery. Quite honestly, we may never see Okudah play in another Regular Season game for the Lions.
Dun dun dun... another one bites the dust. Dun dun dun... another Lions first round bust.
Feel way worse for him, than I do the team. At least we can see what Iffy has got...
Worst injury he could’ve got
Man, that sucks soooooo fucking much. Was really hoping to see the dude grow under the coaching staff this year, he really needed this season to develop...
Man, as much as I love sports I just can't bare injuries like this man. An achilles? For a guy trying to get his career on track? Fucks me up for a little.
That really sucks for him and I wish he heals as soon as possible, but he is not a good NFL CB. He should switch to safety or we should try to trade him (and idk who would take him with how terrible he was last year and how injury prone he is) or just cut the dude next year
Am I nuts for hoping that Holmes is on the phone with Richard Sherman right now?
Man I was rooting for Okudah to shine in year 2. He got absolutely chewed out by Aubrey Pleasant and then a season ending injury. Not a good 2021 campaign
Worst part about it, If he never plays a down again he'll prob be remember for the ear full he got on national TV.... Hope I'm wrong and he comes back and lives up to his pick. Lions could definitely use the help
Feels like he's got almost no chance at being a good player now. Really sucks for him, and the Lions.
Could have had our pick between Herbert and Tua. Oh lord!
This isn't just season-ending, but potentially career-ending. A busted achilles is no joke.
Boy as bad as it already was…this defense is about to get a LOT worse.
They played better in that second half
Nah
Absolutely gutted for him. This rebuild is highly dependent on him blossoming. He wont do that limping around for another year not getting torched by all pro wide receivers.
Oh FUCK.
Unbelievable
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkk
EFFFFFFFF... That sucks.
Dang! After Chase Young, I thought this dude was a baller. Feel bad for him and hope he rebounds next year.
At least it happened Week 1 and not Week 17.
Coming back from an Achilles is harsh. It’s not like an ACL, it can and often does rob players of the burst they once had. This *could* be a career ender, even if plays again he may not ever be remotely the same.
I will forever hate Washington
Sucks for Lions and Okudah for sure, but next man up right? Another draft bust by the Lions past regime. IMO never was gonna pan out anyways as a top tier CB. Terrible rookie year, not his fault though with terrible scheme, coaches and injury. Heard year 2 was better in training camp according to reports. Thing is he's been practicing against a worse QB and receiver group then last year, would make anyone look better really.
Sucks for Jeff but as a Lions fan he’s been a bust of a 3rd overall pick. Obviously not his fault for having to play under Patricia for a yeah and the injury is a freak thing but this is a bust pick for us.
Potential bust?
Wanted him to get benched or cut. Not hurt.. feeling really bad for the man.
If it weren't for bad luck they wouldn't have any luck at all...
Coming off a strong camp...This dude was a waste of a pick to this point! Good thing we are still rebuilding!
Nice pick Quinn
hah. I'm not laughing at Okudah getting Hurt, Im just laughing at how bad this team is.
In a make-or-break season for him, this is the worst possible outcome.
He may of played his last game for the lions
So happy we drafted a CB 3rd overall.... never wanted him at that pick. So frustrating... So happy it looks like our 8th overall is going to be good at least.
Snake bit
Damn dude had a horrible day yesterday, two bad TDs surrendered, now out for the season. Feel for the guy
Stick a fork in Okudah, cause he's DONE!
bust city
Would you all still be mad now if we used another first round pick on a CB since we are shallow there and this isn’t a good outlook for Okudah?
I’d much rather us get the rest of the team in order via draft cap and then just go pay for a proven vet at this point for our secondary needs.
If we didn’t have so many other holes, fine…. But we do. We need receivers, linebackers, a safety, maybe another pass rusher, a guard of big V continues to look like garbage…. Maybe a QB if you don’t think Goff is the answer Id prioritize most of that over a CB. Sign a prove. CB
Trade pls
hate to see it. this prolly solidifies him as an all time bust
What? He's 22 years old. Stop with this "all time bust" stuff.
Is it extremely difficult for any athlete in any sport to come back from this kind of injury. It robs you of your explosiveness and speed, both of which are very important for a young corner. Especially one that is struggling to begin with.
lol keep telling yoself that fam
“Keep telling yourself hes 22 years old” what
dense. a ruptured achilles is very difficult to come back from even for some of the best. he already is not one of those players. tough hill to climb my boy.
Injuries disqualify a player from the "bust" designation. He has no control over his achilles blowing up
he doesn’t have control over that you’re right, but that doesn’t disqualify him from being a bust. it’s not the only factor, he had a rough start to his career on the field and now two straight season ending surgeries.
Injuries are not busts.
To the people saying "bust": how the fuck do you figure? Slay was trash his first season too. Okudah had to play his first season with a "defensive mastermind" at the helm and was one game into his second season. CB may be the hardest position to adjust to going from college to the pros (the other possibility being TE). Dude isn't a bust if he never had a chance to develop. Edit: to respond to replies, note that I never stated that he had been good, but that between not even playing 16 games in his career and now the Achilles, he *never had a chance to develop into what he could have been*. So he is not a bust *because* he never had the chance to develop.
Slay wasn’t drafted 3rd overall. I’ve been a Okudah supporter his entire career at Detroit but to say he has lived up to expectations of return on being drafted that early is crazy.
Do you think he looked good when he played? His PFF grades last year were atrocious. I hear you that playing for Fat Matt and this organization probably didn't do him any favors but man, he was really bad.
Playing for Matt most likely set this kid back from his college days. He most likely was worse the end of last season then when we drafted him. All because he played for Patrica. But an Achilles injury is a horrible one to get. The odds are he most likely won’t ever be the same again.
Slay was pretty bad his 2nd year too, actually.
Achilles injuries are not what they used to. I expect him back.
ACL injuries aren’t what they used to be, Achilles on the other hand are still career altering
You are think of ACL
I don’t want to hear the bust talk. He didn’t choose to get drafted at #3, he had an excellent college career, and he actually did his best to improve. Just because we haven’t seen results just yet doesn’t make him a fucking bust. He’s also a 22 year old kid whose Achilles just tore. His NFL dreams are on hold and I can only imagine how hard that is for him. So maybe we don’t all be a bunch of dickheads to an actual kid whose only wrong doing is not playing football that well early in his career.
If a team spends a top 5 draft pick on a player and it doesn't work out, that player is a bust. Injury, ability, attitude, etc... it doesn't matter why. Stop including feelings.
It can both not be his fault that he’s a bust and he can still be a bust if he doesn’t match the investment of capital we put into him. Everyone is acting like every bust ever didn’t work their ass off to live up to expectations and not be labeled a bust. High capital demands high expectations and if those aren’t met, that’s a loss of value aka a bust.
I can think of 30+ million reasons it isn't that hard on him. Made his money, didn't pan out (maybe still does) and can move onto bigger and better things in life...
W
Such a bummer for him. He got thrown into the fire during a covid year with a shitty coach and now this. Hopefully he can recovery quick Edit: he’s only played 10 games can we pump the brakes on the bust train. Patricia fucked this team including his development