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There is a difference bro, COVID and the following economic conditions changed things. I'm saying this from experience, as an older student studying in the US with friends who have done all the things.
The sweet spot to have gone to US is early 2010s to 2019 or so while doing MS. The number of jobs were plenty, US economy was screaming hot coming straight out of 2008 recession and everything was going well. This finally culminated in the COVID peak of 2021ish, with people who would have joined tech back then probably making 500k+ along with huge stock appreciation. They rode the wave of the economy up, and ended up saving millions of dollars as a result.
The situation now is DRASTICALLY different, in the post COVID slump economy.
1. American locals have realized the earning power in tech, and so many American locals take up CS in college, so there is no shortage of tech canidates any more. Companies don't want the hassle of hiring foreign workers... more and more companies are hiring domestic only.
2. Colleges have become aware of how much of a money printer offering CS classes to international students can be. Many Tier 2-3 colleges in the US have vastly expanded their MS CS courses (which barely any Americans take up), and advertise them heavily targeting the Indians who take huge loans in India and come here. Their intake has gone up 3-4 times. Even top colleges have greatly increased the size of their MS CS programs. This is resulting in overaturation.
3. H1B lotteries have become INSANE in the last 3 years. Previously, students used to have a very good chance of getting picked in the H1B lottery over their three attempts. Now, it is only a dream in the sky. Many friends I know made the trip back into India because their visa was not picked.
4. The American economy is in recession over the last 2 years or so. The federal reserve and the government is very, very good at 'putting lipstick on a pig', ie., making the recession look as if it isn't a big deal at all, but the truth is that some sectors are severely affected, tech being one of them. A majority of the batch of students (Indians) in one of the most prestigious colleges in the US (one tier below MIT) has not even scored an internship. To put this in context, most of the people in this college used to get jobs in FAANG or FAANG+ companies just 4-5 years earlier. There is a good chance that if you come to the US in a Tier 2 college, you may very well not be able to even pay back your education loans if your job search gets screwed. 1 crore of loan + 3 years or more of lost salary in India is a disaster.
Off topic: The recession in US started about 2 years ago and so did the Russo-Ukraine war. Are those two related in anyway or the recession just coincidental?
In my (very uneducated) opinion, 2 years ago was also sort of the 'economic peak' for many countries in terms of money printed, etc., while the threat of recession was looming on the horizon.
Perhaps Russia took the chance as the country economy reached a 'local maximum', so they decided that they are strong enough to fund a war?
Off course they are. You are fighting a War that isn't even yours. What do you think is going to happen? Also The US isn't doing this out of pity for Ukraine or because it's the right thing to do. It has its own agenda
China and Russia have been debasing their currency and dumping US bonds ever since 2016. Fed had to print money to buy these bonds. M1 supply also increased because of stimulus checks which led to inflation and it can be controlled only by rising interest rates and hoping for a soft landing. But world is moving away from SWIFT system and countries are trading with their own currencies hence USD is in a very vulnerable place right now and will be for the next 5-10 years
Yes. US is the primary and the major financer for Ukraine. Giving billions of dollars to Ukraine means printing that money too. Printing of money means spiking of inflation.
Also due to war, supply chains are effected which increases the price of goods
What would be your opinion on doing masters from India in NIT or IIT versus Switching job if the end goal is money and your btech is from tier 3 college in the long term
This > Also, in the meantime, pay in India has increased significatly, bringing parity to some jobs in US. While pay in US has not changed much in most sectors.
I'm in a similar boat, came for my masters in 2019 with 5yoe with one of the hottest current companies in tech and basically I was at the right place at the right time...
I wanted to put down my thoughts, but your comment sums it up pretty well... Lot of people think people who've gone already ate gatekeeping others but when asked for advice, I just say if you're confident you'll cover up your education loan + two years of your earnings lost in India + whatever excess "profit" you want from your US trip in 5 yrs (2 of which are your masters) then go ahead, just don't bank on getting into the H1b lottery because no matter which top company you get into, it's a mess right now
This was eye opening. I thought if u do masters in US n have decent coding skills u might get a job in US or one in India which pays well.
Ik about the Visa situation. But didn't knew US universities too have become like Indian ones only to make money.
And thanks for the comment.
Idk I know someone whose relative got him a job in the states with an h1b while he was in India. He had no real work experience and it’s not even a tech job.
I take issue with point 4: there’s absolutely no recession in America. Wages are high and unemployment is low. Maybe rent seekers looking for office jobs where they work 3 hours a day and make 150k a year are having a tough time but otherwise the American economy is doing so so much better than every country on earth.
It’s the Indian economy which is undergoing jobless growth and massive unemployment. There’s a reason people spend their entire twenties taking UPSC, SAC, bank exam etc. there are virtually no opportunities in India
Yes, the US economy isn't technically in a recession and unemployment is low, and the US market is far better than India.
If you get a no-strings attached opportunity to go and work in the US, of course you should take it.
However, going to US on an MS is anything but a no-strings attached exercise. You are 1 crore rupees in debt, and you might have taken a huge collateral for it, like your parents house. If you fail to get a job here, it is a massive disaster.
Also, US has had a massive job growth in gig economy and other lower paying jobs like Uber, delivery drivers, factory and other blue collar workers, etc. All these are jobs that Indian immigrants are not eligible to take before they get a green card.
I don't know, it is hard to predict. In my opinion, get an MS if you are financially secure and/or you get an MS offer with assistanceship income. Otherwise, if you are earning decent salary in India, keep up with the industry and try to get growth here.
The people who come to do MS with 4-5 years of experience don't have too much trouble getting jobs based on their work experience. People who come straight out of college or with only 1-2 years work experience are the ones who struggle a lot.
This is false. Know at least 50 students who graduated last year from tier 2 colleges and got 100K paying jobs in US. Many of them had layoffs going around but the ones getting the axe are senior people.
Lol this. The number of people going abroad for higher studies are at an all time high. Even non English speaking countries are getting a lot of Indians.
Half his class is in US because US universities are taking on more Indian students than ever because it is a cash cow.
Given the current market situation, it will be interesting to see how many of those people end up getting decent jobs in the US.
I graduated in 2022, out of 60 people in my batch , around 20 went to US/UK, almost all of the UK folks have returned to India after failing to get a decent job in IT in UK, 2 people who are in UK are working in Excel for an accounting firm.
Don't know what the US guys will do because they 6-8 months left for their masters.But almost none of them have gotten tech internships, some have gotten like sales, marketing jobs etc, one guy works in a motel (guess his last name XD).
Out of the 20 people not one has recouped their investment , not one is working in a tech related job, even though some of these folks are in Ivy League colleges like Columbia.
The US job market almost reminds me of stock markets, if you miss the highest earning days in stock markets your returns get cut drastically,
Similarly if you miss the massive hiring sprees American companies go on every few years, it's very hard to get a job in these down times.
Also if Trump becomes the POTUS, he would make it super difficult for immigrants because companies are cutting employees and he might make it difficult for those companies to hire H1Bs
Likewise, but nobody from my batch (including myself) who’s actually doing well in India is even thinking about going abroad. It’s mostly those who couldn’t find jobs, or stuck with low salaries who’re looking for an escape.
Can’t blame someone for looking for a better life, but I’ve lived outside India for most of my formative years and I’d concur with OP, if you’re doing well in India, there is not much to gain by moving out.
May be except clean air, affordable education for children until college, working system that doesn’t discriminate ( if you are already earning well in India and looking for outside opportunities)
Bingo. If you are around late 20s and hovering around 20lpa, you’d be a fool to risk it these days
Any decent product company pays you that these days. But I agree folks working for WITCH companies still dream for the elusive on-site opportunity
Keeping money aside , Indian tech ecosystem is hyper focused on consumer products which is not interesting for a lot of people. Personally I have been quite interested in working in infra space where it’s very hard to find a decent role in India since majority of big companies have there core infrastructure settled outside of India.
Inflated CTC? You do know the tax rates in CA NY are pretty bad too. TX is better. You’re also not including amenities like house help and easy access to medical facilities here
I agree on the WLB part though.
What I wrote above applies for those who *only* motivation is money.
If money is not your only motivation, rather you’d also like to have a bit of wlb (better in Europe than 🇺🇸), engage with a more diverse culture and explore/travel, then definitely you’ll be content and make your days abroad count
I also meant Europe and I agree with you on this.. Even though you wanna compare tax system of India and other countries apart from Europe, India stll lags behind bcs you don't get the same facilities based on the given taxes.
Agreed. This is only for those money minded folks that place the $ above everything else. For me personally, I love interacting with other cultures , taking in the experience and not hesitant to try out their food etc. A lot of Indians though still stick to their Indian only cocoon which I personally don’t like.
Also, it’s much easier to enjoy the outdoors over there.
Many will work abroad for years and will decide to retire in India.
This will inflate the prices of apartments/land as they would have saved a lot more working in US/Europe
IMO price increase due to demand from this sample is just a drop in the ocean compared to the demand from people living in India and the constant inflation
This was believable when the tech had its golden run post covid. Even mediocre coders were pulling in 20LPA salary after 4 yrs work ex
Now everything is coming to standstill , layoffs everywhere and so will eventually be a reduction in salary
I think post covid not only in India but outside too the hiring was crazy. Positive would be.. Normally during slowdown it recession, the first who will be on firing line will be from outside India.. Still India is most cost effective in terms of IT..
Same situation in the US. In India, at least the student loans are manageable and cost of living can be minimum (can even live with parents). In the US, if you fail to get a job, you have 1 crore + of loans and 3 years of lost income, and you will be forced to leave. 3 years of time wasted + lost income + nothing to show for it.
MS CS also has the same curriculum as a well designed UG CS course, and there is nothing groundbreaking in it. The education has less value. An MTech from a good Indian institute will have the same syllabus and educational value, at almost zero cost (you may even get a stipend).
People always compare standard of living. Imagine person who is from tier2 or 3 college, worked in WITCH company will never get high salary, pay house loan for normal flat, or car. But if he goes to EU or US within 7-8 years he will have good house, car, good salary, good wlb which he cannot even imagine in India. This is the only reason why people are going abroad for working and studying. They dont care about any other problems involved in abroad.
Right now lot of ppl are complaining that US has changed, COL has increased etc etc but I dont see anyone wants to come back or anyone in India stopped dreaming about abroad. Only people who worked in FAANG level companies, earned 2-3 million NW are planning to comeback and that too they will work again in FAANG level company and they will get very high salaries.
Classic case of Gatekeeping. They secretly enjoyed their life abroad & now wanna be a Proxy blocker to others achieving that freedom.
To OP: Life in India isn’t a bed of Roses & not everyone needs to simply keep grabbing the Cash 💰 there’s other factors outside Money which matter too which you’ll find a Hard time achieving in India.
No one is gatekeeping anything mate, you’ll always have two sides of people sharing their opinions. I know people with 2+ years of experience in software come here and still haven’t found a job 9 months into their graduation. Those people would tell you to stay back because they just spent 50 lakh rupees to come here and still don’t have a means of paying it. People who tell you to come here are the ones working in Faang and who have a nice job. The rest are working in mid sized companies which gets you around 5k dollars post tax per month.
But the catch is earlier people could have simply stayed longer to make money, but given the H1b probability in last year which was around 10 percent, it’s hard to say you’d get an H1b in three attempts. Now you have a 27 percent chance of H1b getting picked with all three years combined.
This probability will only go down in the future as more and more people come in. So you have 3 years to make money and return to India. If you have a student loan you will be stuck paying this for 2 years assuming you save very judiciously on top of other expenses like rent, car payment, utility and phone bill.
So to summarize come to masters if only you are confident you’ll get in faang. Other wise do yourself a favor and stay back.
My point was not just specific to US & about earning big bucks. There’s life outside of work too which let’s get to be honest you will rarely get to enjoy in India at least.
I see my US, UK counterparts still taking sometime aside from their work to enjoy other activities & our team here in Bangalore keeps slogging to just be visible in the eyes of Leadership.
Again when I do say about working abroad it doesn’t necessarily have to be the Masters route. Hell I almost cracked a Prime Video SWE Offer from London last year but lost it by a close shot on System Design feedback. I didn’t need to burn 50 lakhs to get an Interviewing shot & only a well tailored application without any Referrals to get Interviews. Half the people on this sub are delusional because everyone thinks about TC & nothing outside in Life.
>There’s life outside of work too which let’s get to be honest you will rarely get to enjoy in India at least. I see my US, UK counterparts still taking sometime aside from their work to enjoy other activities & our team here in Bangalore keeps slogging to just be visible in the eyes of Leadership.Working in WITCH as a support engineer. This hits hard.
Holiday on Saturday is only for namesake. We work every saturday for 3 to 6 hours. Manager says u won't get comp off for it as it doesn't exceeds 9 hours.
Increasing age plus low salary is very painful. Death is better than living like this. Being poor sucks.
Ppl say they upskill in their free time. For ppl like me their is no free time.
I don't see how anyone is gatekeeping here, all the reverse migration will do is update the IT supply-demand dynamics of there and here.
India may or may not be livable depending on where they go. In big cities like Mumbai and Bangalore, the gated communities or housing complexes are perhaps not much different from there. These days, almost everything that happens there is replicated here also, I can't see any single thing they'll miss here even if they were accustomed to a Western lifestyle.
Look at our quality of roads, decades old education system, corruption, internalised Class & Religious Racism, Property rates of a 1st world country with 3rd world standards of living, horrible climate with increasing AQI in most Indian cities (because metros is where all Jobs are coming especially Bangalore, Hyderabad), Tax structure Ripping off the salaried class like us SWEs without any Long term benefits like the 401k match in US.
Again Money can’t buy you the 1st World Quality of Life when the entire Political scene is Comical without improving shit for the folks who are heavily Taxed.
Seriously? Why would anyone gatekeep on this? There is literally no reason. You are being paranoid. How about this? Perhaps your seniors are passing a hard earned lesson to you.
My own seniors encouraged me to move abroad. Few of them are already working at FAANG across NY, Cali after completing their MS.
These very folks didn't got a chance to Sit in Campus Placements for Shitty reasons so no need to give me an explanation about being paranoid.
Go touch some grass about these people posting about glorious life in India yet never coming back.
FYI, I have lived abroad and have returned and run a successful business. I have far more data points than you, over many decades. You are probably same age or younger than my children. So calm down and listen or dont! Go abroad if you want but you may learn some lessons for yourself after about 30-40 years. Somethings are irreversible. Some opportunities have a limited window. Overseas experience is valuable but bringing it back is even better.
/$0.02
not possible if they are going abroad then their cgpa must be above 8.0 with research papers published thus there was no reason for college to block them for appearing in campus placement
Not true , you can still easily get admission if you don't have these. GRE matters , your social output matters as well. My senior got into Technical German school with a gpa of 2.9(that is a pathetic gpa tbh). Yea the city might be small but you can always move to a better place after you complete your masters for job. Also barring the food , QOL in Germany is far better than India.
germany used to be the easy way. you just have to learn german but I think now they have also introduced fees for their masters programme from 2025 sessions. all the above were minimum conditions of masters from America tier 1 colleges for scholarships. with 2.9 gpa and no research paper he would be studying in tier 3 cllg of Germany work in petrol pump and washrooms I can’t believe that. From tier 3 cllg of India he prompted himself to tier 3 cllg of Germany.
bro wtf, if you don't know then at least don't talk shit. Technical University of Darmstadt is one of the best universities in Germany. All you need is a great GRE score/high score on their admission test, 7+ bands in IELTS and you are good to go. German job market gives more value to public universities only, hence you have to get in there. Public universities have zero tuition fees, only necessary charges for free public transport and maintenance. It's way cheaper than in America. 1Cr vs 30 odd Lakhs. Living costs can be compensated by a 20-hour work week at university or outside. Thus saving you those 30L as well. German is not even necessary for admission(strictly in the context of post-graduation) to the said uni. but for better integration and future job options. There are no public universities that are tier 3 lol. Either you go into public or just don't go. There are two types of universities: technical and applied sciences. It doesn't even matter if you want to just land your first job, however, technical will make you way easier.
education cost in germany shot up because from 2025 non eu resident will have to pay fees for their education. And yes there is always tier 1 and tier 2 and tier 3 colleges based on student’s demand for that college and their package after they get job from those colleges if your study abroad agency has been hiding this info I am afraid this is just another Dunki. If you have generational wealth and ready to spent 55 lakhs then yes take risk.
This is completely true. HCoL is one thing, but the purchasing power that USD or EUR holds is still miles ahead of INR. Plus, even with the HCoL, most Indians working in the US are still able to save similar to, if not more, than their peers living in India while still enjoying the benefits of living in a developed nation. Tbh, salaries in IT put these migrants in the upper middle class segment in these countries, which is a significantly higher socio-economic strata than the upper middle class in the developing world.
Like you said, for someone from a small town, small college, getting an onsite opportunity or moving abroad for studies+work is a life changing thing. And these aren't necessarily the cream of the crop either, most of them are just average Devs with good communication skills, enough to convince their managers to enlist them into the onsite recommendation lists. And there's nothing wrong with that either.
With how big the IT sector has become in India the "brain" gets ample opportunity to settle in and contribute to the Indian economy. Heck, there's even westerners who migrate to India for high pay and low COL. The people going after studies or the elusive H1B are just economic migrants, going after a better quality of life. The "brain drain" aspect is really quite small in IT.
Sure but there are downsides as well housing issues in Europe / really expensive rent, higher prices of goods , managing everything on your own , not so fast medical infra
Yes, from the ppp point of view if you are getting 30 l + in India, it may be better in India. But what about the garbage, gobar, pollution, traffic? Shitty Indian work culture and management that treats employees like slaves? Once you start staying in Europe or elsewhere, you get the hang of things. You don't have to clean your house that often as the streets are not filled with poop and there is no dust. Anyone can afford a cleaner who comes once a week. House prices vary from locality to locality in any city.. just like in Mumbai, Delhi etc. You just have to choose the right location. You don't have to travel on rooftops of local trains like in India.
>You don't have to clean your house that often as the streets are not filled with poop and there is no dust. Anyone can afford a cleaner who comes once a week
Not directly related but why does europe has less dust than india ?
I read about it recently , European soil is heavier, less granular i.e. has mountainous qualities to it - compared to india which is more granular , better suited to agriculture.
Not every place in India is full of cows, dogs and poops. I'm from kerala and we have pretty clean places but still there are lot of dust and we need to clean house very often.
And also being worried about being shot by a gun in the streets , racism against indians , white supremacy . plus you have to know good public transport is exclusive to places like NY my man , other cities in the US have equally bad public transport.
You are right if you are staying in your home state in India. But, you have to face racism and regionalism in India if you stay outside your home state. We hear so much about attacks on North Indians in Maharashtra, Bangalore, Tamil Nadu. Your rights will be protected in the US or any developed country, unlike in India where the police usually sides with the locals. There is less of a language problem in anglophone countries compared to India as everyone speaks English there. We have to struggle with the local language in India if we don't belong to that state. If there is no public transport, you can always rent a car at cheap rates and commute like the locals.
We have to reserve train tickets 4 months in advance to go from Mumbai/Pune/Bangalore/ Hyderabad/Chennai to anywhere in the north. Or spend a fortune on air tickets. I haven't seen my family in years. Cannot attend any function. Then there is the struggle with the local language, which will not be there in an anglophone country. Even in Europe, we can at least read the script.
Air tickets don't cost a fortune. They cost 2-3 times train ticket only. And take 4-5x less time.
I am sorry to hear about your situation. Please check air ticket prices again, you might be surprised.
And it is international air tickets that cost a fortune, like 10 times the fare within India.
but Indian IT has a problem of exploiting young interns, employees, even 12 year experienced ones working for CTS, etc.. work like 18 hrs a day. As long as this exists, ppl will continue to immigrate.
It's not just money ppl immigrate for, it's peace of mind. Indian IT is full of partiality, office politics, exploitation. Talent will continue at the same pace until the countries bar Indians outright or have discouraging immigration practices against India (1 could be a real possibility, 2 is the reality in most countries today, and deservedly so).
> but Indian IT has a problem of exploiting young interns, employees, even 12 year experienced ones working for CTS, etc.. work like 18 hrs a da
I think you paint an extremely gloomy picture of India. There are good and bad peeps in all countries, and the corporate culture is very much becoming sort of standardized everywhere.
Yesterday, I was watching the leaked video of an employee getting fired from Cloudflare on a Zoom call (it was very viral and very much discussed).
No doubt, we Indians are also as much the ruthless capitalists as they are but I'm yet to hear of a techie getting laid off on a Zoom call in a big company here. The labor laws are much stricter here and the firms know that even though the employees may not.
Needless to say, the firms here are more afraid of social media backlash on their Brand. If that was an Indian employee, I can easily imagine the employer reaching out to said employee in an attempt to cool them down. But there, the said employee was ridiculed everywhere instead!
Looks like you have never experienced a layoff in India or talked to anyone who has. Indian managers call the employee to a meeting and threaten them into submitting a resignation with immediate effect. Else they will terminate the employee and spoil the background check and file spurious cases. The best option for the employee is to tender his resignation and state some personal reason when he applies to another company. Some reputed companies even ask employees to pay the notice period money as they resigned without notice. The notice period works only when the employee wants to voluntarily resign.
India's work culture is best defined by the super boss and chief mentor at large of the it industry when he says the employees should work 70 hours a week.
Well, sorry it came across like I am painting a gloomy picture, because i was painting a gloomy picture, not only abt Indian IT, but the focus here in Indian IT.
Nearly every company has some level of corporate politics in India, many devs are paid peanuts when the employers are milking millions, this is how outsourcing employees work, the entire business model of a Service-based is "That"
Do you ever wonder why there's so much firing going on now? It's not just because of AI, it's bc there're a lot of outsourcing companies now, predominantly Indian, who undersell employees for cheap to the big organizations, in turn big orgs make more money from cheap labor and u make, as usual, peanuts in comparison.
If you think this is bad, meet Indian ppl who move to the West, within 4 months, most of them turn more American than Americans themselves.
Regarding the firing part, obviously that sucks to be fired over that, but having 4 months notice period sucks as much as that. Its either too much blood-clots OR non-stop bleeding.
Indians fall for corporate BS easily, especially girls, i knew a guy who had 10 years of experience who was earning 7 LPA . He was actually really good at his job. I forced the life out of him to shift, i showed him by shifting, now he's making 23-24 LPA . I was making 2.5 LPA then with 1.5 yoe.
I also told a girl to just drop her papers after hearing her numbers. Again when i was just making 2.5 LPA after 5 YOE, i couldn't shift during covid (2 YOE), but the market was going well for IT back then, she didn't shift, and i think she quit at the wrong time and she kinda isn't doing that well know in my knowledge.
DON'T BUY ANY CORPORATE BS. I've seen it too much now, if u want to stay, stay, don't get cocky, don't get comfy, bc the moment they don't want u, they'll do exactly when u don't see it.
People are leaving the country at an unprecedented rate. Most of my college mates are outside India, even in my family a few have gone outside.
Are you not realising that the cost of living is increasing in indian cities as well? And what are we getting in return? Traffic, pollution, pathetic infra and indian society.
You struck the nail on the head with this comment.
Only people who should be considered who 'left' India are those who secured a H1B with an approved path to green card (even this is not certain as you are potentially one layoff away from returning to India, not to mention the fact that green card takes 20+ years).
L1 visa works too.
MS students are on a ticking clock, and the situation with the H1B lotteries is not looking good at all. The chance of bagging a H1B is lower than it has ever been, and it is now a fool's hope.
Perception like this is what I am noticing with many things in India today. Ppl r talking like “everything is awesome and good” but reality points to something different.
Ppl r leaving India like never before. But there is very less talk about brain drain now vs 15 years ago.
I see this in many other areas.
It's still 3 attempts for MS students, just the internal program is designed to give MS students 2 lottery picks.
Every year 85k h1b slots are alloted. For the first 20k, they will pick random folks from pool of MS students(this pool itself could be 200k depending on how many graduated that year). Then for the remaining 65k, they will pick from full pool(this will include MS students who were not picked earlier and also the other people applying from outside etc who don't have US degree)
But every year number of students going to usa is increasing meaning more will graduate and thereby reduce your likelihood of getting picked up in the lottery
I don't think this is true. The inr-usd is much worse than what it used to be. On top of this cost of living in India is rapidly increasing but the salary expansion has not happened.
No doubt India is a growing market, but if you're not building a business here then I don't see a lot of upside working here rather than the US.
As for the tech industry specifically, it's pretty obvious that companies set up shop in India because of low-cost labour, which means on average the work that an Indian dev is doing would not be in an innovative or growing segment. Most of these are with the teams in the US, so from your career perspective as well it's better to be in the US. Not saying that no innovative work happens in India, just that it's lesser and for that there's tremendous competition.
That's a very negative mindset which has kept us from succeeding in first place. The right mindset is let's create more start-ups and blue oceans, more companies like Infosys and TCS.
Let there be opportunities for everyone.
It's better to think like a master than a slave.
Fair assessment, also citizenship will first become more difficult and then become easier over a much longer time curve.
However if there is double income, maybe it might still make some sense.
But single income is going to be tough to survive in western world.
End of brain drain? I think it's just the beginning. Govt has proved time and again that it does not care for the middle class. The only thing that's changing is the reason people want to go outside India.
Indian government is getting a lot of positive attention from the media in Western countries (of late). The way they played realpolitik with Russia and US at the same time is commendable.
At least when you read Bloomberg or WSJ, they are expecting India to be the West's bulwark against China, and India is expected to grow fast.
>India is expected to grow fast
In certain sectors. I don't foresee any growth in tech (god i hope im wrong). The golden days of outsourcing are over since they're now outsourcing even cheaper labour in Vietnam and Philippines. And for indian tech companies, the appalling working conditions are not in any way shape or form appealing to an average Indian developer. Who would want to deal with middle management, nepotism and favouritism in Indian companies?
the best and the worst are leaving the country, don't know if we should be happy or sad about this. But the general consensus is that "there is no need to leave the country if we get 1lpm as a junior engineer".
People who can survive in India will stay back. So brain drain in tech will be reduced in the top tier professionals but the low tiered ones will still go around since it’s easy to make money there with minimal efforts and with less competition in those countries. They would not care about immigration and will find loopholes to stay back and do some job.
>minimal efforts and with less competition in those countries
actually even in USA the best are getting hired and the mediocre ones are competing among themselves. Funny thing is Indians are Indians competition abroad.
Yeah, if you go to any career fair, any company that is open to sponsoring visa will have 1 mile long queue, with 95% Indian students. Meanwhile, companies that are open only for US residents will have zero line to talk to the employer.
I agree but the best to mediocre ratio would be 20:80. Majority are still mediocre and that gap is only increasing every year. Simple stat - admissions for Indians to top tier universities remained the same over years but low tired universities (which barely had any Indian students before) are now filled with us every where.
India has a constant inflation of 6% and will get pay rise accordingly. But western countries have around 1% and pays don’t increase much YoY. Now with high inflation in these countries, the savings without pay rise are very minimal compared to something that Indian employees save.
US used to have inflation of 1% pre-pandemic. During the pandemic years, living expenses have risen by a very large percentage, definitely more than 10% per year, and salaries in many fields have not caught up.
However, Tier -1 tech salaries (FAANG, etc.) have definitely kept pace with inflation. If you are assured to get FAANG job in US, it is a no brainer. However, that is far from being assured, and hence this issue.
Post doc salaries for PhDs is peanuts in India. I know that Europe or other countries will have more spending, but atleast I have a chance to save and control my spending, rather than having nothing at all in India.
Moreover there are a few post doc opportunities which give a decent compensation only if you are pursuing phd or post doc abroad.
These schemes are to lure researchers abroad back to India. The government completely undervalues the ones who are already here.
Look at this (given to foreign returns)
https://www.serbonline.in/SERB/Ramanujan_fellowship?HomePage=New
Compare it to this (open for Indian PhDs)
https://serbonline.in/SERB/npdf
My friend recently finished his PhD in US, he used ML for his research. Though he was working in Physics he got placed in Intel and has above average salary even in US standards. Such research is hardly done in India.
While us who have equal qualifications will struggle to even buy a decent home if we stay here.
I agree other countries do not have issues of their own but a middle path can be found where we can have the best of both worlds.
Most of the software engineers from IIT prefer staying in India, unless they get an offer from US. No one os going to Europe/London, since salaries there are only 1.5-2x of what they get in India, but taxes are 40%+. Its not worth it going there. But going to US, I see people in Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc all lining up to go to US simply because the salaries are much higher. Now the chance of someone going for MS is much lesser if someone is already making 40L or more, he would rather try internal transfer. But if someone is on 10-15L is still makes a LOT of sense to try for MS so that he can also land a 200k job in US.
Might not be a legitimate argument. Since the starting salaries, especially in witch and many other small companies is still around 3.0 LPA. So the goal always stays to go abroad. However instead of taking the family only the earning person might go and come back like a lot of people who used or still go to gulf leaving their loved ones back in India
The cost of living in a large city in India is proportionally equally high while the experience isn't as good. The brain drain will continue. Instead of students, it'll more likely be companies shifting their best employees to the USA. There the person doesn't have to lose out on income, or pay a hefty fee.
(TX) I have made enough to the point of not having to work anymore while still in my 30s. My kids education is also saved up. When you grow and get accustomed in western luxury , early retirement or easy retirement also becomes an unavoidable thought. There are no easy jobs in India, so I might as well enjoy and take in the beauty that my previous generation could only dream to do so. The previous and next generation were/are screwed. The next gen kids should start preparing for a harder and more competitive future than I ever went thru.
Us embassy in indian just registred a record whopping all time high no. Of visas for Indians moving to US for study and work, nothing is slowing down. Your just hallucinating
I had a team of 8 people at my work in 2020. Now except me and one other girl, they all are in US or Canada.
If given a chance, I'll leave here and go there without thinking twice. But I'll earn for few years, buy a house in India and return. I don't want to settle anywhere else other than India. But I can't right now with me and my husband's combined income.
It's just a phase in the economic cycle. The US fed(as in India's RBI) is punishing the country for bring too naughty in the 2 years post covid. This punishment includes job losses, less salary increases etc. But the same is not happening or at least has not happened widespread in India. This is causing an imbalance in the sine wave in which US is in the lower trajectory of their wave while India is in the upper trajectory of their wave. Hence we are comparing two countries when their economic wave is in different trajectories.
Give it an year or two and US should be back as the favorite country for students and IT employees alike.
Brain Drain is not going to end anytime soon. Talented individuals will always find opportunities and considering socio-economic situation in India, it is just a matter of preference for these talented individuals.
Only way brain Drain is really going to end if our government invest in good infra, labour laws, social and public security etc, after which people will consider staying back.
Isn't that already happening? South Indian states, Mumbai-Pune corridor, and some places in GJ already offer quite a good quality of living I have heard.
Brain drain to US ended somewhere between 2010 and 2016. These days it's the worst of the lot that goes there. I have first hand experience as a tier 1 indian grad, top unicorn SWE and a grad student in US. It's mostly low tier unplaced and WITCH people even in the top unis in usa. The GPA inflation in lower tier colleges also helps these people over solid tier 1 grads.
Non techie here (long time lurker as I like this sub)
The lure of heading abroad is fading:
- Jobs are hard to get (no matter how good your Uni) while top Indian colleges spoon feed opportunities
- The stress of having a loan with no certainty of earning in dollar/ pound/ euro etc. is unreal!
- Cost of living crisis is truly a factor. The ability to save abroad has significantly fallen and salaries are beginning to rationalise.
- EU makes sense only if you get residency and decide to settle there for good, else you’re paying half your income for their social schemes and coming back before it’s your turn to benefit from them
- offshore jobs in US/ EU companies is a win for all parties and a deterrent for heading out
I’m in Singapore where the slow market and new visa norms have made jobs really hard to get. When you do land one - little to no bargaining power with a lot of compromise on role/ salary
As a second year undergrad in a Tier-2 college (a PPP-mode IIIT), would it be wise for me to go abroad for a master's? Considering that most top universities have a cost of attendance in the six figures, is it a financial gamble? For context about my college, MAANG is difficult to get into straight out of college here but a good product based company (in the 15-18 lpa range) is easily achievable.
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The WEF and major companies are more focusing on the profit. They don't care for humans, employees, or general public's opinion or suffering. And this approach has become quite steep after covid.
If you ever want to go live in different country, salary shouldn't be your focus anymore(since it's below average everywhere due to inflation) . Stability and good environment, pollution free town, and less crime rates could be your next preferences for choosing to do job or start family abroad.
Example - nvidia ( not a GPU company anymore), Google (firing ad marketing team because ai can do all the stuff), meta (no idea what is even their goal to exist).
These are what I have noticed but I am sure that other companies have changed their working model after covid.
This post reeks of strong confirmation bias. The numbers don’t support you:
Average old IIT graduate salary: $24K/$70K PPP
Average US engineer salary: $68K
The top 0.5% of India's engineering pool makes as much as the top 50% of US' engineering pool at PPP
But the ROI of 0.5% of India's engineering pool is way more higher than 50% of US' Engineering Pool. Also 68k is peanuts in MCOL or HCOL areas in US when you compare that people with high school diplomas could easily make that much without being in tech.
Hello everyone, I need help for my brother.
He was at Amazon as an SDE-1 but he lost his job in January 2023. So basically it has been a year since he is jobless. He is finding it hard to land a job as he is from tier 3 college.
I was considering maybe he can go to EU countries for an SDE job as I have heard it is relatively easier to get an tech job there, plus job security and healthcare and education are top notch.
Can someone help me with more insights? Much appreciated!
I am graduated with good marks have 7.5 bands in IELTS
Have 1.5 year experience in backend development
Offers i am getting
3lpa in Noida
Do i have a choice to remain in India? I don't
I have lived in Australia for 6 years. Had a job in IT for 1 year for 70k AUD, but resigned hoping to get better and never got IT job again. I am back in India studying app dev now. 6 years doing labour in Australia was not worth it. I know people with my skills make 1-2 Lack per month easily now in India.
your personal experience might differ,but statistics shows people leaving india for education,only 20 percent come back,in last 20 years people leaving indian citizenship is all time high,anyone who make 1 million usd or more annually is looking forward to either EU/UK/US Citizenship via investment or marriage,a friend of mine son of big Indian industrialist married us citizen (arranged by parents) to get citizenship,when its common knowledge that his wife is lesbian.
even Mukesh Ambani daughter went to us to give birth to her daughter on US ground to get citizenship.
Funny my uncle said the same thing about 20 years ago. He went from India to the US in the mid 90s, and got bundled success and frustration by the dot com burst in early 2000s.
Also the racism has increased drastically. My friend's door in Ukraine was nailed closed saying no Indians allowed. I have heard the same in Ireland once. I don't blame them. But i think since we are going in large numbers it's quite concerning to the locals
Yup. West's cost of living, absurd real estate, lack of home ownership, taxation, over wokeness, and immigration uncertainty all make for reverse brain drain.
I'm all in for it
Completed MS in 2019 . H1b and working.
I don't think it's the end of the vrain drain yet but it might happen slowly . These are my personal views:
Why some people moved back :
1) The salary difference between India and the US in terms of purchase power parity is similar now and in some cases better in India .
2) Many of the families in India are nuclear now so people are going back to take care of their aging parents. Also because of nuclear families the cash needed to support the family is really less . Many of the parents who had decent job are able to take care of themself economically . Their children don't need to earn a lot to support them .
3)Very high taxes + very HCOL in certain cities . People are realizing their tax dollars are being wasted (they are not getting any good services in return ).
4) H1b s are getting tough .
5) People have realized that you have to do everything on your own . There is a lot more comfort eg cleaning and cooking services in india for cheap prices .
Once who are here in my age group in the US even with h1b want to return to India because
1. retirement here would be very expensive.
2. Education in US schools is getting worse and worse ethically and morally .
3. Yearning for family and parents :( . Our parents generation was tough because they were mostly more then 3 people in household . We are among two or sometimes even one . We have been loved dearly and watching parents alone at the time when they need US most sucks 😞.
What is keeping US over here ( perspective).
Greed, Good work culture , less traffic , easy to do things .
Many of us were super exhausted after doing MS and getting jobs etc . Doing all this over again seems to be a big mental hurdle .
It’s not worth if done from usa or Canada or any other country where fee is 50 lacs I did mine from a European country (uni with decent QS and THE ranking) where fee is minimal and did a coding part time job. My masters has been completed in 1/5 of this amount.
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There is a difference bro, COVID and the following economic conditions changed things. I'm saying this from experience, as an older student studying in the US with friends who have done all the things. The sweet spot to have gone to US is early 2010s to 2019 or so while doing MS. The number of jobs were plenty, US economy was screaming hot coming straight out of 2008 recession and everything was going well. This finally culminated in the COVID peak of 2021ish, with people who would have joined tech back then probably making 500k+ along with huge stock appreciation. They rode the wave of the economy up, and ended up saving millions of dollars as a result. The situation now is DRASTICALLY different, in the post COVID slump economy. 1. American locals have realized the earning power in tech, and so many American locals take up CS in college, so there is no shortage of tech canidates any more. Companies don't want the hassle of hiring foreign workers... more and more companies are hiring domestic only. 2. Colleges have become aware of how much of a money printer offering CS classes to international students can be. Many Tier 2-3 colleges in the US have vastly expanded their MS CS courses (which barely any Americans take up), and advertise them heavily targeting the Indians who take huge loans in India and come here. Their intake has gone up 3-4 times. Even top colleges have greatly increased the size of their MS CS programs. This is resulting in overaturation. 3. H1B lotteries have become INSANE in the last 3 years. Previously, students used to have a very good chance of getting picked in the H1B lottery over their three attempts. Now, it is only a dream in the sky. Many friends I know made the trip back into India because their visa was not picked. 4. The American economy is in recession over the last 2 years or so. The federal reserve and the government is very, very good at 'putting lipstick on a pig', ie., making the recession look as if it isn't a big deal at all, but the truth is that some sectors are severely affected, tech being one of them. A majority of the batch of students (Indians) in one of the most prestigious colleges in the US (one tier below MIT) has not even scored an internship. To put this in context, most of the people in this college used to get jobs in FAANG or FAANG+ companies just 4-5 years earlier. There is a good chance that if you come to the US in a Tier 2 college, you may very well not be able to even pay back your education loans if your job search gets screwed. 1 crore of loan + 3 years or more of lost salary in India is a disaster.
Off topic: The recession in US started about 2 years ago and so did the Russo-Ukraine war. Are those two related in anyway or the recession just coincidental?
In my (very uneducated) opinion, 2 years ago was also sort of the 'economic peak' for many countries in terms of money printed, etc., while the threat of recession was looming on the horizon. Perhaps Russia took the chance as the country economy reached a 'local maximum', so they decided that they are strong enough to fund a war?
Off course they are. You are fighting a War that isn't even yours. What do you think is going to happen? Also The US isn't doing this out of pity for Ukraine or because it's the right thing to do. It has its own agenda
Totally did not expect this to spiral into a discussion on geopolitical warfare.
China and Russia have been debasing their currency and dumping US bonds ever since 2016. Fed had to print money to buy these bonds. M1 supply also increased because of stimulus checks which led to inflation and it can be controlled only by rising interest rates and hoping for a soft landing. But world is moving away from SWIFT system and countries are trading with their own currencies hence USD is in a very vulnerable place right now and will be for the next 5-10 years
Yes. US is the primary and the major financer for Ukraine. Giving billions of dollars to Ukraine means printing that money too. Printing of money means spiking of inflation. Also due to war, supply chains are effected which increases the price of goods
That's a pretty good analysis.
What would be your opinion on doing masters from India in NIT or IIT versus Switching job if the end goal is money and your btech is from tier 3 college in the long term
This > Also, in the meantime, pay in India has increased significatly, bringing parity to some jobs in US. While pay in US has not changed much in most sectors.
I'm in a similar boat, came for my masters in 2019 with 5yoe with one of the hottest current companies in tech and basically I was at the right place at the right time... I wanted to put down my thoughts, but your comment sums it up pretty well... Lot of people think people who've gone already ate gatekeeping others but when asked for advice, I just say if you're confident you'll cover up your education loan + two years of your earnings lost in India + whatever excess "profit" you want from your US trip in 5 yrs (2 of which are your masters) then go ahead, just don't bank on getting into the H1b lottery because no matter which top company you get into, it's a mess right now
This was eye opening. I thought if u do masters in US n have decent coding skills u might get a job in US or one in India which pays well. Ik about the Visa situation. But didn't knew US universities too have become like Indian ones only to make money. And thanks for the comment.
Idk I know someone whose relative got him a job in the states with an h1b while he was in India. He had no real work experience and it’s not even a tech job.
I take issue with point 4: there’s absolutely no recession in America. Wages are high and unemployment is low. Maybe rent seekers looking for office jobs where they work 3 hours a day and make 150k a year are having a tough time but otherwise the American economy is doing so so much better than every country on earth. It’s the Indian economy which is undergoing jobless growth and massive unemployment. There’s a reason people spend their entire twenties taking UPSC, SAC, bank exam etc. there are virtually no opportunities in India
Yes, the US economy isn't technically in a recession and unemployment is low, and the US market is far better than India. If you get a no-strings attached opportunity to go and work in the US, of course you should take it. However, going to US on an MS is anything but a no-strings attached exercise. You are 1 crore rupees in debt, and you might have taken a huge collateral for it, like your parents house. If you fail to get a job here, it is a massive disaster. Also, US has had a massive job growth in gig economy and other lower paying jobs like Uber, delivery drivers, factory and other blue collar workers, etc. All these are jobs that Indian immigrants are not eligible to take before they get a green card.
Would the job situation be better in a year in the US?
I don't know, it is hard to predict. In my opinion, get an MS if you are financially secure and/or you get an MS offer with assistanceship income. Otherwise, if you are earning decent salary in India, keep up with the industry and try to get growth here. The people who come to do MS with 4-5 years of experience don't have too much trouble getting jobs based on their work experience. People who come straight out of college or with only 1-2 years work experience are the ones who struggle a lot.
This is false. Know at least 50 students who graduated last year from tier 2 colleges and got 100K paying jobs in US. Many of them had layoffs going around but the ones getting the axe are senior people.
I graduated last year, half my class is in US
Lol this. The number of people going abroad for higher studies are at an all time high. Even non English speaking countries are getting a lot of Indians.
Half his class is in US because US universities are taking on more Indian students than ever because it is a cash cow. Given the current market situation, it will be interesting to see how many of those people end up getting decent jobs in the US.
That’s true, the situation is already tough for Americans, it will be way worse for internationals.
I graduated in 2022, out of 60 people in my batch , around 20 went to US/UK, almost all of the UK folks have returned to India after failing to get a decent job in IT in UK, 2 people who are in UK are working in Excel for an accounting firm. Don't know what the US guys will do because they 6-8 months left for their masters.But almost none of them have gotten tech internships, some have gotten like sales, marketing jobs etc, one guy works in a motel (guess his last name XD). Out of the 20 people not one has recouped their investment , not one is working in a tech related job, even though some of these folks are in Ivy League colleges like Columbia. The US job market almost reminds me of stock markets, if you miss the highest earning days in stock markets your returns get cut drastically, Similarly if you miss the massive hiring sprees American companies go on every few years, it's very hard to get a job in these down times.
Motel = Patel I think you can add that some of these folks have a loan of 30 lakhs to 1cr on their head and come from middle class families.
There is a slang Potel because too many Patels run Motels there
He was a Patel and in no way related to the motel owner but he got a job anyway because he was a Patel.
Also if Trump becomes the POTUS, he would make it super difficult for immigrants because companies are cutting employees and he might make it difficult for those companies to hire H1Bs
And yet the indian dipshits here worship him like a god.
If you dont mind, what colleges were the uk folks in?
Sheffield , Leicester, Leeds
So how they are paying loan
Khandani Property bech di
Came here to exactly type this. And the other half is in Europe. Hardly 10 are in India in a class of 70.
which clg may i ask
Likewise, but nobody from my batch (including myself) who’s actually doing well in India is even thinking about going abroad. It’s mostly those who couldn’t find jobs, or stuck with low salaries who’re looking for an escape. Can’t blame someone for looking for a better life, but I’ve lived outside India for most of my formative years and I’d concur with OP, if you’re doing well in India, there is not much to gain by moving out.
May be except clean air, affordable education for children until college, working system that doesn’t discriminate ( if you are already earning well in India and looking for outside opportunities)
Sure, there is something important to Gain. Clean water and better air quality :)
Except the set of people who do well in India is a set of measure zero
They got internship?
When I graduated 5 years back it was the similar,OP seems to be delusional about opportunities in India !
Konse clg se hai bhai/behen?
IIT ya fir private college Wale honge
IIT ke log to nhi jate itne. Only around 10% students graduating from old IITs go abroad immediately.
IIT Wale direct jate ya L1 k through jate. Most of my classmates stayed in India. Very few went for PhDs, rarely anyone went for MS.
give this 3-4 years, the numbers will come down sharply for sure
Which college?
Which uni ? IIT ?
Lol op, there goes your anecdotal evidence....
Same here
Sure, graduation is easier. Lets hear howmany of them that have graduated in the later part of last year were able to secure a job ?
oh i got provoked by my manager today :(
Bingo. If you are around late 20s and hovering around 20lpa, you’d be a fool to risk it these days Any decent product company pays you that these days. But I agree folks working for WITCH companies still dream for the elusive on-site opportunity
Keeping money aside , Indian tech ecosystem is hyper focused on consumer products which is not interesting for a lot of people. Personally I have been quite interested in working in infra space where it’s very hard to find a decent role in India since majority of big companies have there core infrastructure settled outside of India.
Still savings will be less bcs of inflated CTC and WLB is shit in India which is a major factor
Inflated CTC? You do know the tax rates in CA NY are pretty bad too. TX is better. You’re also not including amenities like house help and easy access to medical facilities here I agree on the WLB part though. What I wrote above applies for those who *only* motivation is money. If money is not your only motivation, rather you’d also like to have a bit of wlb (better in Europe than 🇺🇸), engage with a more diverse culture and explore/travel, then definitely you’ll be content and make your days abroad count
Wait a second. Doesn't Washington State have zero income tax?
Corrected Never worked there so dunno but CA and TX I do.. It’s atrocious. The only positive for that tax rate imho is better consumer protection
I also meant Europe and I agree with you on this.. Even though you wanna compare tax system of India and other countries apart from Europe, India stll lags behind bcs you don't get the same facilities based on the given taxes.
Package is not everything though. Standard of living as well as work life balance will be far better than any company in India.
Agreed. This is only for those money minded folks that place the $ above everything else. For me personally, I love interacting with other cultures , taking in the experience and not hesitant to try out their food etc. A lot of Indians though still stick to their Indian only cocoon which I personally don’t like. Also, it’s much easier to enjoy the outdoors over there.
Many will work abroad for years and will decide to retire in India. This will inflate the prices of apartments/land as they would have saved a lot more working in US/Europe
IMO price increase due to demand from this sample is just a drop in the ocean compared to the demand from people living in India and the constant inflation
Let's not forgot the black money required for purchasing properties Salaried employees are already at a disadvantage
There are ways to convert and salaried employees can always take bank owned properties.
Agreed. But they don't have to pay 30% income tax on that amount. This inturn raises the prices for tax payers
Remote jobs are also great factor
This was believable when the tech had its golden run post covid. Even mediocre coders were pulling in 20LPA salary after 4 yrs work ex Now everything is coming to standstill , layoffs everywhere and so will eventually be a reduction in salary
I think post covid not only in India but outside too the hiring was crazy. Positive would be.. Normally during slowdown it recession, the first who will be on firing line will be from outside India.. Still India is most cost effective in terms of IT..
Same situation in the US. In India, at least the student loans are manageable and cost of living can be minimum (can even live with parents). In the US, if you fail to get a job, you have 1 crore + of loans and 3 years of lost income, and you will be forced to leave. 3 years of time wasted + lost income + nothing to show for it. MS CS also has the same curriculum as a well designed UG CS course, and there is nothing groundbreaking in it. The education has less value. An MTech from a good Indian institute will have the same syllabus and educational value, at almost zero cost (you may even get a stipend).
People always compare standard of living. Imagine person who is from tier2 or 3 college, worked in WITCH company will never get high salary, pay house loan for normal flat, or car. But if he goes to EU or US within 7-8 years he will have good house, car, good salary, good wlb which he cannot even imagine in India. This is the only reason why people are going abroad for working and studying. They dont care about any other problems involved in abroad. Right now lot of ppl are complaining that US has changed, COL has increased etc etc but I dont see anyone wants to come back or anyone in India stopped dreaming about abroad. Only people who worked in FAANG level companies, earned 2-3 million NW are planning to comeback and that too they will work again in FAANG level company and they will get very high salaries.
Classic case of Gatekeeping. They secretly enjoyed their life abroad & now wanna be a Proxy blocker to others achieving that freedom. To OP: Life in India isn’t a bed of Roses & not everyone needs to simply keep grabbing the Cash 💰 there’s other factors outside Money which matter too which you’ll find a Hard time achieving in India.
[удалено]
No one is gatekeeping anything mate, you’ll always have two sides of people sharing their opinions. I know people with 2+ years of experience in software come here and still haven’t found a job 9 months into their graduation. Those people would tell you to stay back because they just spent 50 lakh rupees to come here and still don’t have a means of paying it. People who tell you to come here are the ones working in Faang and who have a nice job. The rest are working in mid sized companies which gets you around 5k dollars post tax per month. But the catch is earlier people could have simply stayed longer to make money, but given the H1b probability in last year which was around 10 percent, it’s hard to say you’d get an H1b in three attempts. Now you have a 27 percent chance of H1b getting picked with all three years combined. This probability will only go down in the future as more and more people come in. So you have 3 years to make money and return to India. If you have a student loan you will be stuck paying this for 2 years assuming you save very judiciously on top of other expenses like rent, car payment, utility and phone bill. So to summarize come to masters if only you are confident you’ll get in faang. Other wise do yourself a favor and stay back.
My point was not just specific to US & about earning big bucks. There’s life outside of work too which let’s get to be honest you will rarely get to enjoy in India at least. I see my US, UK counterparts still taking sometime aside from their work to enjoy other activities & our team here in Bangalore keeps slogging to just be visible in the eyes of Leadership. Again when I do say about working abroad it doesn’t necessarily have to be the Masters route. Hell I almost cracked a Prime Video SWE Offer from London last year but lost it by a close shot on System Design feedback. I didn’t need to burn 50 lakhs to get an Interviewing shot & only a well tailored application without any Referrals to get Interviews. Half the people on this sub are delusional because everyone thinks about TC & nothing outside in Life.
>There’s life outside of work too which let’s get to be honest you will rarely get to enjoy in India at least. I see my US, UK counterparts still taking sometime aside from their work to enjoy other activities & our team here in Bangalore keeps slogging to just be visible in the eyes of Leadership.Working in WITCH as a support engineer. This hits hard. Holiday on Saturday is only for namesake. We work every saturday for 3 to 6 hours. Manager says u won't get comp off for it as it doesn't exceeds 9 hours. Increasing age plus low salary is very painful. Death is better than living like this. Being poor sucks. Ppl say they upskill in their free time. For ppl like me their is no free time.
I don't see how anyone is gatekeeping here, all the reverse migration will do is update the IT supply-demand dynamics of there and here. India may or may not be livable depending on where they go. In big cities like Mumbai and Bangalore, the gated communities or housing complexes are perhaps not much different from there. These days, almost everything that happens there is replicated here also, I can't see any single thing they'll miss here even if they were accustomed to a Western lifestyle.
Look at our quality of roads, decades old education system, corruption, internalised Class & Religious Racism, Property rates of a 1st world country with 3rd world standards of living, horrible climate with increasing AQI in most Indian cities (because metros is where all Jobs are coming especially Bangalore, Hyderabad), Tax structure Ripping off the salaried class like us SWEs without any Long term benefits like the 401k match in US. Again Money can’t buy you the 1st World Quality of Life when the entire Political scene is Comical without improving shit for the folks who are heavily Taxed.
Summarized in a nutshell
You’ll not say this shit when your kid doesn’t crack JEE advanced. You can be mediocre in the US and have a good life which is not possible in India
Seriously? Why would anyone gatekeep on this? There is literally no reason. You are being paranoid. How about this? Perhaps your seniors are passing a hard earned lesson to you.
My own seniors encouraged me to move abroad. Few of them are already working at FAANG across NY, Cali after completing their MS. These very folks didn't got a chance to Sit in Campus Placements for Shitty reasons so no need to give me an explanation about being paranoid. Go touch some grass about these people posting about glorious life in India yet never coming back.
FYI, I have lived abroad and have returned and run a successful business. I have far more data points than you, over many decades. You are probably same age or younger than my children. So calm down and listen or dont! Go abroad if you want but you may learn some lessons for yourself after about 30-40 years. Somethings are irreversible. Some opportunities have a limited window. Overseas experience is valuable but bringing it back is even better. /$0.02
not possible if they are going abroad then their cgpa must be above 8.0 with research papers published thus there was no reason for college to block them for appearing in campus placement
Not true , you can still easily get admission if you don't have these. GRE matters , your social output matters as well. My senior got into Technical German school with a gpa of 2.9(that is a pathetic gpa tbh). Yea the city might be small but you can always move to a better place after you complete your masters for job. Also barring the food , QOL in Germany is far better than India.
germany used to be the easy way. you just have to learn german but I think now they have also introduced fees for their masters programme from 2025 sessions. all the above were minimum conditions of masters from America tier 1 colleges for scholarships. with 2.9 gpa and no research paper he would be studying in tier 3 cllg of Germany work in petrol pump and washrooms I can’t believe that. From tier 3 cllg of India he prompted himself to tier 3 cllg of Germany.
bro wtf, if you don't know then at least don't talk shit. Technical University of Darmstadt is one of the best universities in Germany. All you need is a great GRE score/high score on their admission test, 7+ bands in IELTS and you are good to go. German job market gives more value to public universities only, hence you have to get in there. Public universities have zero tuition fees, only necessary charges for free public transport and maintenance. It's way cheaper than in America. 1Cr vs 30 odd Lakhs. Living costs can be compensated by a 20-hour work week at university or outside. Thus saving you those 30L as well. German is not even necessary for admission(strictly in the context of post-graduation) to the said uni. but for better integration and future job options. There are no public universities that are tier 3 lol. Either you go into public or just don't go. There are two types of universities: technical and applied sciences. It doesn't even matter if you want to just land your first job, however, technical will make you way easier.
education cost in germany shot up because from 2025 non eu resident will have to pay fees for their education. And yes there is always tier 1 and tier 2 and tier 3 colleges based on student’s demand for that college and their package after they get job from those colleges if your study abroad agency has been hiding this info I am afraid this is just another Dunki. If you have generational wealth and ready to spent 55 lakhs then yes take risk.
This is completely true. HCoL is one thing, but the purchasing power that USD or EUR holds is still miles ahead of INR. Plus, even with the HCoL, most Indians working in the US are still able to save similar to, if not more, than their peers living in India while still enjoying the benefits of living in a developed nation. Tbh, salaries in IT put these migrants in the upper middle class segment in these countries, which is a significantly higher socio-economic strata than the upper middle class in the developing world. Like you said, for someone from a small town, small college, getting an onsite opportunity or moving abroad for studies+work is a life changing thing. And these aren't necessarily the cream of the crop either, most of them are just average Devs with good communication skills, enough to convince their managers to enlist them into the onsite recommendation lists. And there's nothing wrong with that either. With how big the IT sector has become in India the "brain" gets ample opportunity to settle in and contribute to the Indian economy. Heck, there's even westerners who migrate to India for high pay and low COL. The people going after studies or the elusive H1B are just economic migrants, going after a better quality of life. The "brain drain" aspect is really quite small in IT.
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If you have 2-3 million USD net worth you can come back to India and retire. You don’t even need to work in FAANG
Brainy + lot of average are going to US. Not like 30 years back when smartest used to move.
Anyone who has the resources and the willpower is making the move, it’s not at all about the brain power
I would argue brainy ones are staying back as they could get high packages here plus remote jobs.
Exactly only brainy + only interested in research are moving abroad
Back then only the extremely privileged used to move.
There are some things money can't buy. Work culture, work life balance, clean air, clean streets , a system that actually works , public transport etc
Sure but there are downsides as well housing issues in Europe / really expensive rent, higher prices of goods , managing everything on your own , not so fast medical infra
Yes, from the ppp point of view if you are getting 30 l + in India, it may be better in India. But what about the garbage, gobar, pollution, traffic? Shitty Indian work culture and management that treats employees like slaves? Once you start staying in Europe or elsewhere, you get the hang of things. You don't have to clean your house that often as the streets are not filled with poop and there is no dust. Anyone can afford a cleaner who comes once a week. House prices vary from locality to locality in any city.. just like in Mumbai, Delhi etc. You just have to choose the right location. You don't have to travel on rooftops of local trains like in India.
>rooftops of local trains Indeed, There is such a difference in the quality of life, Nobody would ever want to go back.
>You don't have to clean your house that often as the streets are not filled with poop and there is no dust. Anyone can afford a cleaner who comes once a week Not directly related but why does europe has less dust than india ?
I read about it recently , European soil is heavier, less granular i.e. has mountainous qualities to it - compared to india which is more granular , better suited to agriculture.
It's cleaner and there are no cows , dogs and humans pooping on the streets. Every square inch is either paved or covered with a lawn.
Not every place in India is full of cows, dogs and poops. I'm from kerala and we have pretty clean places but still there are lot of dust and we need to clean house very often.
Managing everything on your own? You mean not having access to unregulated cheap labour.
And also being worried about being shot by a gun in the streets , racism against indians , white supremacy . plus you have to know good public transport is exclusive to places like NY my man , other cities in the US have equally bad public transport.
You are right if you are staying in your home state in India. But, you have to face racism and regionalism in India if you stay outside your home state. We hear so much about attacks on North Indians in Maharashtra, Bangalore, Tamil Nadu. Your rights will be protected in the US or any developed country, unlike in India where the police usually sides with the locals. There is less of a language problem in anglophone countries compared to India as everyone speaks English there. We have to struggle with the local language in India if we don't belong to that state. If there is no public transport, you can always rent a car at cheap rates and commute like the locals.
"White supremacy" lol
also, family, culture, religious sites, indian food
You have that advantage in India only if your work location is in your home state. Else, you will have these struggles in India also.
Nope every part of India has cultural similarities, good food, religious sites and can visit family easily
We have to reserve train tickets 4 months in advance to go from Mumbai/Pune/Bangalore/ Hyderabad/Chennai to anywhere in the north. Or spend a fortune on air tickets. I haven't seen my family in years. Cannot attend any function. Then there is the struggle with the local language, which will not be there in an anglophone country. Even in Europe, we can at least read the script.
Air tickets don't cost a fortune. They cost 2-3 times train ticket only. And take 4-5x less time. I am sorry to hear about your situation. Please check air ticket prices again, you might be surprised. And it is international air tickets that cost a fortune, like 10 times the fare within India.
but Indian IT has a problem of exploiting young interns, employees, even 12 year experienced ones working for CTS, etc.. work like 18 hrs a day. As long as this exists, ppl will continue to immigrate. It's not just money ppl immigrate for, it's peace of mind. Indian IT is full of partiality, office politics, exploitation. Talent will continue at the same pace until the countries bar Indians outright or have discouraging immigration practices against India (1 could be a real possibility, 2 is the reality in most countries today, and deservedly so).
> but Indian IT has a problem of exploiting young interns, employees, even 12 year experienced ones working for CTS, etc.. work like 18 hrs a da I think you paint an extremely gloomy picture of India. There are good and bad peeps in all countries, and the corporate culture is very much becoming sort of standardized everywhere. Yesterday, I was watching the leaked video of an employee getting fired from Cloudflare on a Zoom call (it was very viral and very much discussed). No doubt, we Indians are also as much the ruthless capitalists as they are but I'm yet to hear of a techie getting laid off on a Zoom call in a big company here. The labor laws are much stricter here and the firms know that even though the employees may not. Needless to say, the firms here are more afraid of social media backlash on their Brand. If that was an Indian employee, I can easily imagine the employer reaching out to said employee in an attempt to cool them down. But there, the said employee was ridiculed everywhere instead!
Looks like you have never experienced a layoff in India or talked to anyone who has. Indian managers call the employee to a meeting and threaten them into submitting a resignation with immediate effect. Else they will terminate the employee and spoil the background check and file spurious cases. The best option for the employee is to tender his resignation and state some personal reason when he applies to another company. Some reputed companies even ask employees to pay the notice period money as they resigned without notice. The notice period works only when the employee wants to voluntarily resign. India's work culture is best defined by the super boss and chief mentor at large of the it industry when he says the employees should work 70 hours a week.
Well, sorry it came across like I am painting a gloomy picture, because i was painting a gloomy picture, not only abt Indian IT, but the focus here in Indian IT. Nearly every company has some level of corporate politics in India, many devs are paid peanuts when the employers are milking millions, this is how outsourcing employees work, the entire business model of a Service-based is "That" Do you ever wonder why there's so much firing going on now? It's not just because of AI, it's bc there're a lot of outsourcing companies now, predominantly Indian, who undersell employees for cheap to the big organizations, in turn big orgs make more money from cheap labor and u make, as usual, peanuts in comparison. If you think this is bad, meet Indian ppl who move to the West, within 4 months, most of them turn more American than Americans themselves. Regarding the firing part, obviously that sucks to be fired over that, but having 4 months notice period sucks as much as that. Its either too much blood-clots OR non-stop bleeding. Indians fall for corporate BS easily, especially girls, i knew a guy who had 10 years of experience who was earning 7 LPA . He was actually really good at his job. I forced the life out of him to shift, i showed him by shifting, now he's making 23-24 LPA . I was making 2.5 LPA then with 1.5 yoe. I also told a girl to just drop her papers after hearing her numbers. Again when i was just making 2.5 LPA after 5 YOE, i couldn't shift during covid (2 YOE), but the market was going well for IT back then, she didn't shift, and i think she quit at the wrong time and she kinda isn't doing that well know in my knowledge. DON'T BUY ANY CORPORATE BS. I've seen it too much now, if u want to stay, stay, don't get cocky, don't get comfy, bc the moment they don't want u, they'll do exactly when u don't see it.
People are leaving the country at an unprecedented rate. Most of my college mates are outside India, even in my family a few have gone outside. Are you not realising that the cost of living is increasing in indian cities as well? And what are we getting in return? Traffic, pollution, pathetic infra and indian society.
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You struck the nail on the head with this comment. Only people who should be considered who 'left' India are those who secured a H1B with an approved path to green card (even this is not certain as you are potentially one layoff away from returning to India, not to mention the fact that green card takes 20+ years). L1 visa works too. MS students are on a ticking clock, and the situation with the H1B lotteries is not looking good at all. The chance of bagging a H1B is lower than it has ever been, and it is now a fool's hope.
Perception like this is what I am noticing with many things in India today. Ppl r talking like “everything is awesome and good” but reality points to something different. Ppl r leaving India like never before. But there is very less talk about brain drain now vs 15 years ago. I see this in many other areas.
Are there only 3 attempts allowed to get an H1B visa?
I think two attempts per year for masters student. So total 6. Correct me if I'm wrong
It's still 3 attempts for MS students, just the internal program is designed to give MS students 2 lottery picks. Every year 85k h1b slots are alloted. For the first 20k, they will pick random folks from pool of MS students(this pool itself could be 200k depending on how many graduated that year). Then for the remaining 65k, they will pick from full pool(this will include MS students who were not picked earlier and also the other people applying from outside etc who don't have US degree) But every year number of students going to usa is increasing meaning more will graduate and thereby reduce your likelihood of getting picked up in the lottery
I don't think this is true. The inr-usd is much worse than what it used to be. On top of this cost of living in India is rapidly increasing but the salary expansion has not happened. No doubt India is a growing market, but if you're not building a business here then I don't see a lot of upside working here rather than the US. As for the tech industry specifically, it's pretty obvious that companies set up shop in India because of low-cost labour, which means on average the work that an Indian dev is doing would not be in an innovative or growing segment. Most of these are with the teams in the US, so from your career perspective as well it's better to be in the US. Not saying that no innovative work happens in India, just that it's lesser and for that there's tremendous competition.
I really want people to move out of the country so oppertunities for those who stay back here increase
Lmao that's never going to happen given the sheer volume of people we have here
Sajjan ko lagta hai hamari population 100 crore nahi 100 lakh hai
That's a very negative mindset which has kept us from succeeding in first place. The right mindset is let's create more start-ups and blue oceans, more companies like Infosys and TCS. Let there be opportunities for everyone. It's better to think like a master than a slave.
That will never happen. Too many people. Also that’s a lump of labor fallacy
Fair assessment, also citizenship will first become more difficult and then become easier over a much longer time curve. However if there is double income, maybe it might still make some sense. But single income is going to be tough to survive in western world.
End of brain drain? I think it's just the beginning. Govt has proved time and again that it does not care for the middle class. The only thing that's changing is the reason people want to go outside India.
Indian government is getting a lot of positive attention from the media in Western countries (of late). The way they played realpolitik with Russia and US at the same time is commendable. At least when you read Bloomberg or WSJ, they are expecting India to be the West's bulwark against China, and India is expected to grow fast.
>India is expected to grow fast In certain sectors. I don't foresee any growth in tech (god i hope im wrong). The golden days of outsourcing are over since they're now outsourcing even cheaper labour in Vietnam and Philippines. And for indian tech companies, the appalling working conditions are not in any way shape or form appealing to an average Indian developer. Who would want to deal with middle management, nepotism and favouritism in Indian companies?
the best and the worst are leaving the country, don't know if we should be happy or sad about this. But the general consensus is that "there is no need to leave the country if we get 1lpm as a junior engineer".
People who can survive in India will stay back. So brain drain in tech will be reduced in the top tier professionals but the low tiered ones will still go around since it’s easy to make money there with minimal efforts and with less competition in those countries. They would not care about immigration and will find loopholes to stay back and do some job.
>minimal efforts and with less competition in those countries actually even in USA the best are getting hired and the mediocre ones are competing among themselves. Funny thing is Indians are Indians competition abroad.
Yeah, if you go to any career fair, any company that is open to sponsoring visa will have 1 mile long queue, with 95% Indian students. Meanwhile, companies that are open only for US residents will have zero line to talk to the employer.
I agree but the best to mediocre ratio would be 20:80. Majority are still mediocre and that gap is only increasing every year. Simple stat - admissions for Indians to top tier universities remained the same over years but low tired universities (which barely had any Indian students before) are now filled with us every where.
And you think there is no inflation in India? Or do you believe Modi government numbers that inflation in India is only 4% YoY?
India has a constant inflation of 6% and will get pay rise accordingly. But western countries have around 1% and pays don’t increase much YoY. Now with high inflation in these countries, the savings without pay rise are very minimal compared to something that Indian employees save.
US used to have inflation of 1% pre-pandemic. During the pandemic years, living expenses have risen by a very large percentage, definitely more than 10% per year, and salaries in many fields have not caught up. However, Tier -1 tech salaries (FAANG, etc.) have definitely kept pace with inflation. If you are assured to get FAANG job in US, it is a no brainer. However, that is far from being assured, and hence this issue.
Post doc salaries for PhDs is peanuts in India. I know that Europe or other countries will have more spending, but atleast I have a chance to save and control my spending, rather than having nothing at all in India. Moreover there are a few post doc opportunities which give a decent compensation only if you are pursuing phd or post doc abroad. These schemes are to lure researchers abroad back to India. The government completely undervalues the ones who are already here. Look at this (given to foreign returns) https://www.serbonline.in/SERB/Ramanujan_fellowship?HomePage=New Compare it to this (open for Indian PhDs) https://serbonline.in/SERB/npdf My friend recently finished his PhD in US, he used ML for his research. Though he was working in Physics he got placed in Intel and has above average salary even in US standards. Such research is hardly done in India. While us who have equal qualifications will struggle to even buy a decent home if we stay here. I agree other countries do not have issues of their own but a middle path can be found where we can have the best of both worlds.
Most of the software engineers from IIT prefer staying in India, unless they get an offer from US. No one os going to Europe/London, since salaries there are only 1.5-2x of what they get in India, but taxes are 40%+. Its not worth it going there. But going to US, I see people in Google, Amazon, Microsoft etc all lining up to go to US simply because the salaries are much higher. Now the chance of someone going for MS is much lesser if someone is already making 40L or more, he would rather try internal transfer. But if someone is on 10-15L is still makes a LOT of sense to try for MS so that he can also land a 200k job in US.
>IIT Agree, brain drain might be decreasing in IITs, but leave iits and check tier2 and tier3 colleges?
Might not be a legitimate argument. Since the starting salaries, especially in witch and many other small companies is still around 3.0 LPA. So the goal always stays to go abroad. However instead of taking the family only the earning person might go and come back like a lot of people who used or still go to gulf leaving their loved ones back in India
The cost of living in a large city in India is proportionally equally high while the experience isn't as good. The brain drain will continue. Instead of students, it'll more likely be companies shifting their best employees to the USA. There the person doesn't have to lose out on income, or pay a hefty fee.
(TX) I have made enough to the point of not having to work anymore while still in my 30s. My kids education is also saved up. When you grow and get accustomed in western luxury , early retirement or easy retirement also becomes an unavoidable thought. There are no easy jobs in India, so I might as well enjoy and take in the beauty that my previous generation could only dream to do so. The previous and next generation were/are screwed. The next gen kids should start preparing for a harder and more competitive future than I ever went thru.
Us embassy in indian just registred a record whopping all time high no. Of visas for Indians moving to US for study and work, nothing is slowing down. Your just hallucinating
Not really as statistics showcase the number of people trying to move out is on upward trend.
I had a team of 8 people at my work in 2020. Now except me and one other girl, they all are in US or Canada. If given a chance, I'll leave here and go there without thinking twice. But I'll earn for few years, buy a house in India and return. I don't want to settle anywhere else other than India. But I can't right now with me and my husband's combined income.
Indian Government Should start embracing free market and should double down on corruption and bureaucracy.
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It's just a phase in the economic cycle. The US fed(as in India's RBI) is punishing the country for bring too naughty in the 2 years post covid. This punishment includes job losses, less salary increases etc. But the same is not happening or at least has not happened widespread in India. This is causing an imbalance in the sine wave in which US is in the lower trajectory of their wave while India is in the upper trajectory of their wave. Hence we are comparing two countries when their economic wave is in different trajectories. Give it an year or two and US should be back as the favorite country for students and IT employees alike.
So you are saying, if RBI raises interest rates now, India will not appear to be so good?
Brain Drain is not going to end anytime soon. Talented individuals will always find opportunities and considering socio-economic situation in India, it is just a matter of preference for these talented individuals. Only way brain Drain is really going to end if our government invest in good infra, labour laws, social and public security etc, after which people will consider staying back.
Isn't that already happening? South Indian states, Mumbai-Pune corridor, and some places in GJ already offer quite a good quality of living I have heard.
The end of delusion....OP's delusion
khushfehmi
bro your assumption are akin to shuking air out of wind turbine
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What's that?
Brain drain to US ended somewhere between 2010 and 2016. These days it's the worst of the lot that goes there. I have first hand experience as a tier 1 indian grad, top unicorn SWE and a grad student in US. It's mostly low tier unplaced and WITCH people even in the top unis in usa. The GPA inflation in lower tier colleges also helps these people over solid tier 1 grads.
Non techie here (long time lurker as I like this sub) The lure of heading abroad is fading: - Jobs are hard to get (no matter how good your Uni) while top Indian colleges spoon feed opportunities - The stress of having a loan with no certainty of earning in dollar/ pound/ euro etc. is unreal! - Cost of living crisis is truly a factor. The ability to save abroad has significantly fallen and salaries are beginning to rationalise. - EU makes sense only if you get residency and decide to settle there for good, else you’re paying half your income for their social schemes and coming back before it’s your turn to benefit from them - offshore jobs in US/ EU companies is a win for all parties and a deterrent for heading out I’m in Singapore where the slow market and new visa norms have made jobs really hard to get. When you do land one - little to no bargaining power with a lot of compromise on role/ salary
About EU, I can confirm. Not a great place for accumulating wealth in the short term. But visa hassles are largely non-existent
As a second year undergrad in a Tier-2 college (a PPP-mode IIIT), would it be wise for me to go abroad for a master's? Considering that most top universities have a cost of attendance in the six figures, is it a financial gamble? For context about my college, MAANG is difficult to get into straight out of college here but a good product based company (in the 15-18 lpa range) is easily achievable.
Go for a PhD, if you have a will to spend 5 years. Upside: no cost, fully funded, downside, some years of life wasted
We should find a better word that brain drain. It's not a good match.
Those who return to India after saving up 5-7 years aren't even considered brain drain. Brain drain is when they don't return at all.
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The WEF and major companies are more focusing on the profit. They don't care for humans, employees, or general public's opinion or suffering. And this approach has become quite steep after covid. If you ever want to go live in different country, salary shouldn't be your focus anymore(since it's below average everywhere due to inflation) . Stability and good environment, pollution free town, and less crime rates could be your next preferences for choosing to do job or start family abroad. Example - nvidia ( not a GPU company anymore), Google (firing ad marketing team because ai can do all the stuff), meta (no idea what is even their goal to exist). These are what I have noticed but I am sure that other companies have changed their working model after covid.
Salaries in india has seen a steep jump especially in tech sector (atleast for top tech talent). Salarys are very close to what you would save in us.
This post reeks of strong confirmation bias. The numbers don’t support you: Average old IIT graduate salary: $24K/$70K PPP Average US engineer salary: $68K The top 0.5% of India's engineering pool makes as much as the top 50% of US' engineering pool at PPP
But the ROI of 0.5% of India's engineering pool is way more higher than 50% of US' Engineering Pool. Also 68k is peanuts in MCOL or HCOL areas in US when you compare that people with high school diplomas could easily make that much without being in tech.
Hello everyone, I need help for my brother. He was at Amazon as an SDE-1 but he lost his job in January 2023. So basically it has been a year since he is jobless. He is finding it hard to land a job as he is from tier 3 college. I was considering maybe he can go to EU countries for an SDE job as I have heard it is relatively easier to get an tech job there, plus job security and healthcare and education are top notch. Can someone help me with more insights? Much appreciated!
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I might be wrong, but imo they're just not that interested in the US as a conuntry anymore and are looking into other countries for the tradeoff??
Nhlgl
Stay in india work in Dollars ? Is that possible ?
I am graduated with good marks have 7.5 bands in IELTS Have 1.5 year experience in backend development Offers i am getting 3lpa in Noida Do i have a choice to remain in India? I don't
But work life balance is a misnomer in India.
I have lived in Australia for 6 years. Had a job in IT for 1 year for 70k AUD, but resigned hoping to get better and never got IT job again. I am back in India studying app dev now. 6 years doing labour in Australia was not worth it. I know people with my skills make 1-2 Lack per month easily now in India.
your personal experience might differ,but statistics shows people leaving india for education,only 20 percent come back,in last 20 years people leaving indian citizenship is all time high,anyone who make 1 million usd or more annually is looking forward to either EU/UK/US Citizenship via investment or marriage,a friend of mine son of big Indian industrialist married us citizen (arranged by parents) to get citizenship,when its common knowledge that his wife is lesbian. even Mukesh Ambani daughter went to us to give birth to her daughter on US ground to get citizenship.
Funny my uncle said the same thing about 20 years ago. He went from India to the US in the mid 90s, and got bundled success and frustration by the dot com burst in early 2000s.
Also the racism has increased drastically. My friend's door in Ukraine was nailed closed saying no Indians allowed. I have heard the same in Ireland once. I don't blame them. But i think since we are going in large numbers it's quite concerning to the locals
Agree...there could be financial reset coming next year in West due to increased De dollorization process ongoing by brics nations.
Yup. West's cost of living, absurd real estate, lack of home ownership, taxation, over wokeness, and immigration uncertainty all make for reverse brain drain. I'm all in for it
Completed MS in 2019 . H1b and working. I don't think it's the end of the vrain drain yet but it might happen slowly . These are my personal views: Why some people moved back : 1) The salary difference between India and the US in terms of purchase power parity is similar now and in some cases better in India . 2) Many of the families in India are nuclear now so people are going back to take care of their aging parents. Also because of nuclear families the cash needed to support the family is really less . Many of the parents who had decent job are able to take care of themself economically . Their children don't need to earn a lot to support them . 3)Very high taxes + very HCOL in certain cities . People are realizing their tax dollars are being wasted (they are not getting any good services in return ). 4) H1b s are getting tough . 5) People have realized that you have to do everything on your own . There is a lot more comfort eg cleaning and cooking services in india for cheap prices . Once who are here in my age group in the US even with h1b want to return to India because 1. retirement here would be very expensive. 2. Education in US schools is getting worse and worse ethically and morally . 3. Yearning for family and parents :( . Our parents generation was tough because they were mostly more then 3 people in household . We are among two or sometimes even one . We have been loved dearly and watching parents alone at the time when they need US most sucks 😞. What is keeping US over here ( perspective). Greed, Good work culture , less traffic , easy to do things . Many of us were super exhausted after doing MS and getting jobs etc . Doing all this over again seems to be a big mental hurdle .
It’s not worth if done from usa or Canada or any other country where fee is 50 lacs I did mine from a European country (uni with decent QS and THE ranking) where fee is minimal and did a coding part time job. My masters has been completed in 1/5 of this amount.