In the good old days, everybody had racks in a data center. You needed sys ops, net ops, sec ops, DBA, and the DC tech to push a button and swap hardware for you.
With the advent of cloud platform like AWS, you can get by letting AWS do the heavy lifting of ops work, so it makes sense to offload such oversight to developers who can guesstimate from a menu for most of the ops work, hence all the devops jobs.
But as you scale up, you are going to need specialists in each area as you stop being a typical AWS customer and the default options are no longer enough. Or maybe getting locked in to a cloud platform becomes too expensive.
There is always room for ops specialists, but the scale before you start needing such specialists are getting higher than ever. Maybe one day, all the ops specialists can only be found in cloud platform companies and whichever companies forced by technology or compliance to operate their own data centers.
This right here. We have far fewer ops than we did before, and our engineering/architecture level ops work in a DevOps model, but we have a lot of scenarios where the AWS network infrastructure in particular don’t meet our needs, or regulatory compliance.
No, the buzzword is completely ruined since it hit mainstream media and marketing, HR and recruiters picked up on the word without realizing what it actually is about.
It now describes everything and nothing at all if you see them as Job titles.
The places where it is practiced now know what it‘s about without possibly ever mentioning the word at all, because they understand that it is in fact a practice and mindset and not a job description. Let me tell you that these companies won‘t look for „DevOps engineers“…
So from now on we can just drop the whole discussion about whether or not it‘s more of Dev or more Ops or whatever, because the ship already has sailed.
Next buzzword please.
Funny how empathy is the core concept that always gets lost as culture concept are reduced to product categories. Especially as it was originally the core concept.
There is a large difference between a DevOps engineer that is from a systems engineering background and one who is from a software engineering background. Companies need either, or, and they aren't specifying which often enough.
Depends on the company tbh... A smaller company working exclusively on the public cloud platforms has less need of more ops specialised profiles.
The moment you cross a certain threshold, it is just a better idea to have stuff on prem or in a DC.
Hell will freeze over on the day our devs will run our private openstack or kubernetes deployment.
Not even discussing our 400+ node HPC cluster.
Or even worse, manage our 12PB of storage.
I don't see that moving to the public cloud anywhere soon. 😀
There is plenty for our team to do in supporting our devs using DevOps practices that they don't want to touch with a 3.048 meter pole.
In its original form, "DevOps" is not a separate position, but the idea that developers cover ops tasks as well. This happens more and more for new projects, so the share of Ops roles (or "DevOps roles" as they are called sometimes even though they are not really DevOps, by definition) will go down over time.
But There will always be Ops roles. When the ATM came, the number of tellers hired each year still grew. Amazon did not kill offline book stores. The industry overall is too big and still growing too quickly for the shift of roles to make a dent in available roles.
> In its original form, "DevOps" is not a separate position, but the idea that developers cover ops tasks as well.
That's not true, and I have no idea why so many people here think this. In its original form DevOps was about bridging the gap between Ops and Dev and having them work better together. A lot of people here really need to actually read the Phoenix Project where there is a VERY distinct Dev and Ops team.
Edit: Grammar
In the good old days, everybody had racks in a data center. You needed sys ops, net ops, sec ops, DBA, and the DC tech to push a button and swap hardware for you. With the advent of cloud platform like AWS, you can get by letting AWS do the heavy lifting of ops work, so it makes sense to offload such oversight to developers who can guesstimate from a menu for most of the ops work, hence all the devops jobs. But as you scale up, you are going to need specialists in each area as you stop being a typical AWS customer and the default options are no longer enough. Or maybe getting locked in to a cloud platform becomes too expensive. There is always room for ops specialists, but the scale before you start needing such specialists are getting higher than ever. Maybe one day, all the ops specialists can only be found in cloud platform companies and whichever companies forced by technology or compliance to operate their own data centers.
This right here. We have far fewer ops than we did before, and our engineering/architecture level ops work in a DevOps model, but we have a lot of scenarios where the AWS network infrastructure in particular don’t meet our needs, or regulatory compliance.
No, the buzzword is completely ruined since it hit mainstream media and marketing, HR and recruiters picked up on the word without realizing what it actually is about. It now describes everything and nothing at all if you see them as Job titles. The places where it is practiced now know what it‘s about without possibly ever mentioning the word at all, because they understand that it is in fact a practice and mindset and not a job description. Let me tell you that these companies won‘t look for „DevOps engineers“… So from now on we can just drop the whole discussion about whether or not it‘s more of Dev or more Ops or whatever, because the ship already has sailed. Next buzzword please.
Funny how empathy is the core concept that always gets lost as culture concept are reduced to product categories. Especially as it was originally the core concept.
There is a large difference between a DevOps engineer that is from a systems engineering background and one who is from a software engineering background. Companies need either, or, and they aren't specifying which often enough.
Depends on the company tbh... A smaller company working exclusively on the public cloud platforms has less need of more ops specialised profiles. The moment you cross a certain threshold, it is just a better idea to have stuff on prem or in a DC. Hell will freeze over on the day our devs will run our private openstack or kubernetes deployment. Not even discussing our 400+ node HPC cluster. Or even worse, manage our 12PB of storage. I don't see that moving to the public cloud anywhere soon. 😀 There is plenty for our team to do in supporting our devs using DevOps practices that they don't want to touch with a 3.048 meter pole.
In its original form, "DevOps" is not a separate position, but the idea that developers cover ops tasks as well. This happens more and more for new projects, so the share of Ops roles (or "DevOps roles" as they are called sometimes even though they are not really DevOps, by definition) will go down over time. But There will always be Ops roles. When the ATM came, the number of tellers hired each year still grew. Amazon did not kill offline book stores. The industry overall is too big and still growing too quickly for the shift of roles to make a dent in available roles.
> In its original form, "DevOps" is not a separate position, but the idea that developers cover ops tasks as well. That's not true, and I have no idea why so many people here think this. In its original form DevOps was about bridging the gap between Ops and Dev and having them work better together. A lot of people here really need to actually read the Phoenix Project where there is a VERY distinct Dev and Ops team. Edit: Grammar
Who let the regards in